Gatti leaves Concertgebouw Orchestra immediately

https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/daniele-gatti-leaves-the-royal-concertgebouw

Herman

2018-08-02 14:52:43 UTC

Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/daniele-gatti-leaves-the-royal-concertgebouw

this happened lightning fast; faster than expected.

As mentioned on disc slipola, the fact that the orchestra had become disenchanted with Gatti's work after the honeymoon period may well be a factor in the quick dismissal.

Frank Berger

2018-08-02 15:16:13 UTC

Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/daniele-gatti-leaves-the-royal-concertgebouw

this happened lightning fast; faster than expected.
As mentioned on disc slipola, the fact that the orchestra had become disenchanted with Gatti's work after the honeymoon period may well be a factor in the quick dismissal.

Rarely do I search for something on Google and come up with zero. What
is disc slipola? Is it a "fact" that the orchestra (is that the players
or management or both?) had become disenchanted? Or just speculative
journalism? Even if all that is true, how does "disc slipola" know that
"may well" have been a factor? Sunspots may well have been a factor.

j***@gmail.com

2018-08-02 15:25:33 UTC

http://slippedisc.com/

Post by Frank Berger
Rarely do I search for something on Google and come up with zero. What
is disc slipola? Is it a "fact" that the orchestra (is that the players
or management or both?) had become disenchanted? Or just speculative
journalism? Even if all that is true, how does "disc slipola" know that
"may well" have been a factor? Sunspots may well have been a factor.

Frank Berger

2018-08-02 15:55:49 UTC

Post by j***@gmail.com
http://slippedisc.com/

Thanks for the reference. Here's what the article actually said:

"We have been hearing lately of deteriorating relations between the
orchestra and its Italian conductor. Whether the sexual element is a
contributory factor cannot be ascertained......"

Great journalism.

Herman

2018-08-02 16:12:00 UTC

Post by Frank Berger
"We have been hearing lately of deteriorating relations between the
orchestra and its Italian conductor. Whether the sexual element is a
contributory factor cannot be ascertained......"
Great journalism.

My comments weren't just based on Lebrecht, but also what one hears and sees in Amsterdam.

JohnA

2018-08-02 16:21:55 UTC

My comments weren't just based on Lebrecht, but also what one hears and sees in Amsterdam

Meanwhile...

http://slippedisc.com/2018/08/breaking-gatti-warns-orchestra-and-media-of-legal-action/

BREAKING: GATTI WARNS ORCHESTRA AND MEDIA OF LEGAL ACTION
August 2, 2018 by norman lebrecht

A statement issued by Daniele Gatti through his lawyer in Torino:

STUDIO AWOCATO CHIUSANO

10121 Torino Via Bertolotti n. 2 – Tel. 011/4369069 Fax 436 93 03 00186 Roma Piazza del Porto di Ripetta n.1- tel. 06/32110968

ALBERTO BORBON

Oggetto: dichiarazione del Maestro Daniele Gatti

Con riferimento all’iniziativa assunta dal Presidente del Consiglio di Amministrazione e dal Direttore Generale della Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam di cessare il rapporto di collaborazione con il Maestro Daniele Gatti, quest’ultimo, mio tramite, tiene a far sapere agli organi di stampa che è esterrefatto e respinge fortemente qualsiasi tipo di accusa.

Il Maestro ha dato mandato ai suoi legali di tutelare la propria reputazione e di intraprendere eventuali azioni qualora tale campagna diffamatoria nei suoi confronti dovesse proseguire.

Distinti saluti.

Torino, 02 agosto 2018

Roughly, in English:

ALBERTO BORBON
Object: statement by Maestro Daniele Gatti
With reference to the initiative taken by the Chairman of the Board of Directors and the General Director of the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam to cease the relationship of collaboration with Maestro Daniele Gatti, the latter, my client, wishes to let the media know that he is stunned and strongly rejects any kind of accusation.

The Maestro has instructed his lawyers to protect his reputation and to take any action if this defamatory campaign against him should continue.
Yours sincerely.
Turin, 02 August 2018

Frank Berger

2018-08-02 17:07:30 UTC

Post by JohnA

My comments weren't just based on Lebrecht, but also what one hears and sees in Amsterdam

Meanwhile...
http://slippedisc.com/2018/08/breaking-gatti-warns-orchestra-and-media-of-legal-action/
BREAKING: GATTI WARNS ORCHESTRA AND MEDIA OF LEGAL ACTION
August 2, 2018 by norman lebrecht
STUDIO AWOCATO CHIUSANO
10121 Torino Via Bertolotti n. 2 – Tel. 011/4369069 Fax 436 93 03 00186 Roma Piazza del Porto di Ripetta n.1- tel. 06/32110968
ALBERTO BORBON
Oggetto: dichiarazione del Maestro Daniele Gatti
Con riferimento all’iniziativa assunta dal Presidente del Consiglio di Amministrazione e dal Direttore Generale della Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam di cessare il rapporto di collaborazione con il Maestro Daniele Gatti, quest’ultimo, mio tramite, tiene a far sapere agli organi di stampa che è esterrefatto e respinge fortemente qualsiasi tipo di accusa.
Il Maestro ha dato mandato ai suoi legali di tutelare la propria reputazione e di intraprendere eventuali azioni qualora tale campagna diffamatoria nei suoi confronti dovesse proseguire.
Distinti saluti.
Torino, 02 agosto 2018
ALBERTO BORBON
Object: statement by Maestro Daniele Gatti
With reference to the initiative taken by the Chairman of the Board of Directors and the General Director of the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra Amsterdam to cease the relationship of collaboration with Maestro Daniele Gatti, the latter, my client, wishes to let the media know that he is stunned and strongly rejects any kind of accusation.
The Maestro has instructed his lawyers to protect his reputation and to take any action if this defamatory campaign against him should continue.
Yours sincerely.
Turin, 02 August 2018

As one comment there said, it's too late to save his reputation, even in
the unlikely case he manages to win a defamation suit.

Bob Harper

2018-08-03 06:16:30 UTC

Post by JohnA

My comments weren't just based on Lebrecht, but also what one hears
and sees in Amsterdam

Meanwhile...
http://slippedisc.com/2018/08/breaking-gatti-warns-orchestra-and-media-of-legal-action/
BREAKING: GATTI WARNS ORCHESTRA AND MEDIA OF LEGAL ACTION
August 2, 2018 by norman lebrecht
STUDIO AWOCATO CHIUSANO
10121 Torino Via Bertolotti n. 2 – Tel. 011/4369069 Fax 436 93 03
00186 Roma Piazza del Porto di Ripetta n.1- tel. 06/32110968
ALBERTO BORBON
Oggetto: dichiarazione del Maestro Daniele Gatti
Con riferimento all’iniziativa assunta dal Presidente del Consiglio di
Amministrazione e dal Direttore Generale della Royal Concertgebouw
Orchestra Amsterdam di cessare il rapporto di collaborazione con il
Maestro Daniele Gatti, quest’ultimo, mio tramite, tiene a far sapere
agli organi di stampa che è esterrefatto e respinge fortemente
qualsiasi tipo di accusa.
Il Maestro ha dato mandato ai suoi legali di tutelare la propria
reputazione e di intraprendere eventuali azioni qualora tale campagna
diffamatoria nei suoi confronti dovesse proseguire.
Distinti saluti.
Torino, 02 agosto 2018
ALBERTO BORBON
Object: statement by Maestro Daniele Gatti
With reference to the initiative taken by the Chairman of the Board of
Directors and the General Director of the Royal Concertgebouw
Orchestra Amsterdam to cease the relationship of collaboration with
Maestro Daniele Gatti, the latter, my client, wishes to let the media
know that he is stunned and strongly rejects any kind of accusation.
The Maestro has instructed his lawyers to protect his reputation and
to take any action if this defamatory campaign against him should
continue.
Yours sincerely.
Turin, 02 August 2018

As one comment there said, it's too late to save his reputation, even in
the unlikely case he manages to win a defamation suit.

But is he does win a defamation suit, it will at least impose a cost on
the Savonarolas.

Bob Harper

Frank Berger

2018-08-02 17:05:05 UTC

My comments weren't just based on Lebrecht, but also what one hears and sees in Amsterdam.

I haven't been to Amsterdam lately.

Herman

2018-08-02 15:26:14 UTC

that's a lotta questions, and you'll never make 007.

"disc slipola" is Secret Service lingo for Slipped Disc.

the disenchantment was a palpable fact; Gatti, musically, just lacked the subtlety needed for the job.

Herman

2018-08-02 15:33:11 UTC

Post by Herman
the disenchantment was a palpable fact; Gatti, musically, just lacked the subtlety needed for the job.

as a ladies' man he may have lacked subtlety. Getting handsy with a soprano is a little different than trying something like that with a tutti string player. Singers are essentially perennially travelling freelancers, while an orchestra player has tenure and dozens of colleagues with whom she / he can dish the dirt every day.

drh8h

2018-08-02 23:28:40 UTC

Post by Herman
the disenchantment was a palpable fact; Gatti, musically, just lacked the subtlety needed for the job.

Well, you know how they often used to get around that problem. No women in orchestras, except maybe a couple of elderly harpists. I assume European orchestras use blind auditions. Are the VPO and BPO still "segregated?"

DH

Raymond Hall

2018-08-03 00:24:35 UTC

. Are the VPO and BPO still "segregated?"

Not the BPO. Sarah Willis on Frencb Horn for many years now, and several female string players. Sarah's Horn Hangouts are on YT.

Ray Hall, Taree

Oscar

2018-08-03 06:21:03 UTC

Post by Herman
as a ladies' man he may have lacked subtlety. Getting handsy with a soprano is a little different than trying
something like that with a tutti string player. Singers are essentially perennially travelling freelancers, while
an orchestra player has tenure and dozens of colleagues with whom she / he can dish the dirt every day.

It could be worse: Royal Danish Ballet under Nikolaj Hübbe; Leipzig String Quartet w/ Stefan Arzberger; French Socialist Party under Dominique Strauss-Kahn.

drh8h

2018-08-02 23:38:01 UTC

Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/daniele-gatti-leaves-the-royal-concertgebouw

this happened lightning fast; faster than expected.
As mentioned on disc slipola, the fact that the orchestra had become disenchanted with Gatti's work after the honeymoon period may well be a factor in the quick dismissal.

I knew of Gatti mostly just by reputation, but was surprised somewhat when he was chosen, as I did not get the impression he is a "A list" conductor for such a position. That might start a question. Are there any A listers these days under the age of 70?

DH

Bozo

2018-08-03 00:07:51 UTC

Little girls grow up to be women ; little boys grow up to be older little boys.

Bob Harper

2018-08-03 06:14:02 UTC

Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/daniele-gatti-leaves-the-royal-concertgebouw

this happened lightning fast; faster than expected.
As mentioned on disc slipola, the fact that the orchestra had become disenchanted with Gatti's work after the honeymoon period may well be a factor in the quick dismissal.

In our Savonarola-ish age, accusations turn into convictions with
lightning speed. Joe McCarthy would have ben envious of the SJWs. A pox
on them!

Bob Harper

m***@gmail.com

2018-08-02 19:04:19 UTC

Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/daniele-gatti-leaves-the-royal-concertgebouw

Who will replace him is the most interesting question now.

2018-08-02 19:11:23 UTC

Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/daniele-gatti-leaves-the-royal-concertgebouw

Who will replace him is the most interesting question now.

maybe Herman should.

AB

Herman

2018-08-02 19:12:28 UTC

Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/daniele-gatti-leaves-the-royal-concertgebouw

Who will replace him is the most interesting question now.

that's going to be very tough. There is not a single charismatic candidate momentarily who is not tied to two orchestras already.

j***@yahoo.com

2018-08-02 21:42:33 UTC

I think the more interesting question is what happens to Gatti? Remember, Levine was at retirement age when he was called out on strikes. But Gatti, he’s in the prime of his career. Does he still guest conduct anywhere? Will he be regulated to a community orchestra someplace? Will he still conduct Otello in Berlin next year? -Which is supposed to be broadcast live on the digital concert hall.

Thornhill

2018-08-02 22:23:55 UTC

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I think the more interesting question is what happens to Gatti? Remember, Levine was at retirement age when he was called out on strikes. But Gatti, he’s in the prime of his career. Does he still guest conduct anywhere? Will he be regulated to a community orchestra someplace? Will he still conduct Otello in Berlin next year? -Which is supposed to be broadcast live on the digital concert hall.

Time will go by. Someone will give him a second chance.

And I have no doubt that there are some male orchestra presidents who think they have the right to treat women how Gatti did and he got shafted — they'll want to help him out.

Bob Harper

2018-08-03 06:19:11 UTC

Time will go by. Someone will give him a second chance.
And I have no doubt that there are some male orchestra presidents who think they have the right to treat women how Gatti did and he got shafted — they'll want to help him out.

I cannot approve what he is alleged to have done, but I do believe in
repentance and redemption. Destroying him is not an acceptable course.

Bob Harper

Herman

2018-08-03 07:14:57 UTC

Time will go by. Someone will give him a second chance.
And I have no doubt that there are some male orchestra presidents who think they have the right to treat women how Gatti did and he got shafted — they'll want to help him out.

I cannot approve what he is alleged to have done, but I do believe in
repentance and redemption. Destroying him is not an acceptable course.
Bob Harper

They're not out to "destroy" Gatti. They're firing him because of an untenable situation, created by himself.

What do you want? A conductor of on of the three best orchestras in the world doing a twelve step program in front of the orchestra?

Are you aware what kind of money these men make? With that comes a clear responsibility.

Frank Berger

2018-08-03 12:36:22 UTC

Post by j***@yahoo.com
I think the more interesting question is what happens to Gatti?
Remember, Levine was at retirement age when he was called out on
strikes. But Gatti, he’s in the prime of his career. Does he still
guest conduct anywhere? Will he be regulated to a community orchestra
someplace? Will he still conduct Otello in Berlin next year? -Which
is supposed to be broadcast live on the digital concert hall.

Time will go by. Someone will give him a second chance.
And I have no doubt that there are some male orchestra presidents who
think they have the right to treat women how Gatti did and he got
shafted — they'll want to help him out.

I cannot approve what he is alleged to have done, but I do believe in
repentance and redemption. Destroying him is not an acceptable course.
Bob Harper

Repentance and redemption are between him and God.
Individuals may be morally/religiously obligated to forgive a truly
repenting sinner who has harmed them, but employers are not. They have
other employees to protect as well as their own reputations. The line
between acting responsibly and caving to political correctness is not
always clear. Employers should have well defined standards of behavior
and some sort of due process, but beyond that have no obligation to
continue anyone's employment. It doesn't matter if in Gatti's case the
Concertgebouw (musicians or management) were unhappy with his job
performance before his alleged misbehavior.

Thornhill

2018-08-03 13:15:28 UTC

Time will go by. Someone will give him a second chance.
And I have no doubt that there are some male orchestra presidents who think they have the right to treat women how Gatti did and he got shafted — they'll want to help him out.

I cannot approve what he is alleged to have done, but I do believe in
repentance and redemption. Destroying him is not an acceptable course.
Bob Harper

Losing the privilege to conduct elite orchestras for a very long time is hardly "destroying" someone. It's a more than acceptable punishment.

Frank Berger

2018-08-03 13:20:34 UTC

Time will go by. Someone will give him a second chance.
And I have no doubt that there are some male orchestra presidents who think they have the right to treat women how Gatti did and he got shafted — they'll want to help him out.

I cannot approve what he is alleged to have done, but I do believe in
repentance and redemption. Destroying him is not an acceptable course.
Bob Harper

Losing the privilege to conduct elite orchestras for a very long time is hardly "destroying" someone. It's a more than acceptable punishment.

It's not really punishment in the strict sense. It's orchestras
protecting their employees and their reputations.

n***@gmail.com

2018-08-03 13:32:26 UTC

Time will go by. Someone will give him a second chance.
And I have no doubt that there are some male orchestra presidents who think they have the right to treat women how Gatti did and he got shafted — they'll want to help him out.

I cannot approve what he is alleged to have done, but I do believe in
repentance and redemption. Destroying him is not an acceptable course.
Bob Harper

Losing the privilege to conduct elite orchestras for a very long time is hardly "destroying" someone. It's a more than acceptable punishment.

It's not really punishment in the strict sense. It's orchestras
protecting their employees and their reputations.

If the means of my livelihood was taken (and my reputation tarnished) I'd feel punished.

Frank Berger

2018-08-03 15:19:58 UTC

Time will go by. Someone will give him a second chance.
And I have no doubt that there are some male orchestra presidents who think they have the right to treat women how Gatti did and he got shafted — they'll want to help him out.

I cannot approve what he is alleged to have done, but I do believe in
repentance and redemption. Destroying him is not an acceptable course.
Bob Harper

Losing the privilege to conduct elite orchestras for a very long time is hardly "destroying" someone. It's a more than acceptable punishment.

It's not really punishment in the strict sense. It's orchestras
protecting their employees and their reputations.

If the means of my livelihood was taken (and my reputation tarnished) I'd feel punished.

Yeah, I probably had a strange definition of "punishment" in my head
when wrote that. I was thinking that the motivation for punishment is
revenge or retribution. I don't think employers fire employees for that
reason. As I said they do it to protect themselves and their employees.

Thornhill

2018-08-03 16:31:31 UTC

Time will go by. Someone will give him a second chance.
And I have no doubt that there are some male orchestra presidents who think they have the right to treat women how Gatti did and he got shafted — they'll want to help him out.

I cannot approve what he is alleged to have done, but I do believe in
repentance and redemption. Destroying him is not an acceptable course.
Bob Harper

Losing the privilege to conduct elite orchestras for a very long time is hardly "destroying" someone. It's a more than acceptable punishment.

It's not really punishment in the strict sense. It's orchestras
protecting their employees and their reputations.

If the means of my livelihood was taken (and my reputation tarnished) I'd feel punished.

There are consequences to bad behavior.

How should this situation have been handled? The WP never published its story and instead told the RCO about its investigation, and then the RCO announced that Gatti was resigning to spend more time with his family?

If he can never get another gig with an elite orchestra because people don't want to work with someone who has a reputation for sexually harassing and assaulting women, well, that's his fault.

Herman

2018-08-03 16:53:05 UTC

Post by n***@gmail.com
If the means of my livelihood was taken (and my reputation tarnished) I'd feel punished.

There are consequences to bad behavior.

absolutely.

Herman

2018-08-11 08:13:14 UTC

Guest conductors filling in for Gatti in August and September are Haitink (doin' Mahler 9), Honeck, Hengelbrock and Kerem Hasan.

Gerard

2018-08-11 15:55:39 UTC

Post by Herman
Guest conductors filling in for Gatti in August and September are Haitink (doin' Mahler 9), Honeck, Hengelbrock and Kerem Hasan.

All available names starting with 'H'?

Herman

2018-08-11 15:59:28 UTC

Post by Gerard

Post by Herman
Guest conductors filling in for Gatti in August and September are Haitink (doin' Mahler 9), Honeck, Hengelbrock and Kerem Hasan.

All available names starting with 'H'?

H for Help.

Not for HimToo.

j***@yahoo.com

2018-08-11 16:25:05 UTC

H comes after G.

Herman

2018-08-11 16:53:40 UTC

Post by j***@yahoo.com
H comes after G.

Yeah, I guess that was the thinking.

They're going thru their rolodex real slow.

2018-08-11 18:43:55 UTC

Post by j***@yahoo.com
H comes after G.

Yeah, I guess that was the thinking.
They're going thru their rolodex real slow.

Looks like a great opportunity to disband
the RCO and re-purpose the hall for solo
piano recitals! ;-)

dk

2018-08-11 19:59:41 UTC

Post by dk
Looks like a great opportunity to disband
the RCO and re-purpose the hall for solo
piano recitals! ;-)

What about a Concertgebouw Hotel?

Henk

2018-08-12 00:33:30 UTC

Post by HT

Post by dk
Looks like a great opportunity to disband
the RCO and re-purpose the hall for solo
piano recitals! ;-)

What about a Concertgebouw Hotel?

In a 19th century building ?!?
Amsterdam already has too many
old creaky moldy hotels! Come
to think of it, an indoor ice
rink would be best! ;-)

dk

Bozo

2018-08-17 00:00:20 UTC

Post by dk
Amsterdam already has too many
old creaky moldy hotels!

Does the " Yankee Hotel " still exist ? A 5th floor walk-up pensione down the street several blocks to one's right as one exited the Hauptbanhof downtown ?

Gerard

2018-08-17 08:58:02 UTC

Post by dk
Amsterdam already has too many
old creaky moldy hotels!

Does the " Yankee Hotel " still exist ? A 5th floor walk-up pensione down the street several blocks to one's right as one exited the Hauptbanhof downtown ?

Is there a hof in Amsterdam called Hauptbanhof?

m***@gmail.com

2018-08-17 10:47:57 UTC

Post by Gerard

Post by dk
Amsterdam already has too many
old creaky moldy hotels!

Does the " Yankee Hotel " still exist ? A 5th floor walk-up pensione down the street several blocks to one's right as one exited the Hauptbanhof downtown ?

Is there a hof in Amsterdam called Hauptbanhof?

Note the correct spelling

https://www.iamsterdam.com/de/see-and-do/things-to-do/attraktionen-und-sehenswurdigkeiten/was-sie-sehen-sollten/amsterdam-centraal-station-hauptbahnhof

Gerard

2018-08-17 14:36:18 UTC

Post by Gerard

Post by dk
Amsterdam already has too many
old creaky moldy hotels!

Does the " Yankee Hotel " still exist ? A 5th floor walk-up pensione down the street several blocks to one's right as one exited the Hauptbanhof downtown ?

Is there a hof in Amsterdam called Hauptbanhof?

Note the correct spelling
https://www.iamsterdam.com/de/see-and-do/things-to-do/attraktionen-und-sehenswurdigkeiten/was-sie-sehen-sollten/amsterdam-centraal-station-hauptbahnhof

Thanks. I see.
The correct spelling is: Centraal Station.

Herman

2018-08-17 15:38:24 UTC

Let's call the US die Vereinigte Staten henceforth, if we're going to make German the leading language here after all these years since Schaffer's departure.

2018-08-18 07:41:54 UTC

Post by Herman
Let's call the US die Vereinigte Staten henceforth,
if we're going to make German the leading language
here after all these years since Schaffer's departure.

Deutschland über Alles!
French speakers, please
move elsewhere! ;-)

dk

n***@gmail.com

2018-08-18 17:53:05 UTC

Post by Herman
Let's call the US die Vereinigte Staten henceforth, if we're going to make German the leading language here after all these years since Schaffer's departure.

While we're at it, "Vereinigte Staaten"?

c***@gmail.com

2018-08-18 19:03:04 UTC

Post by Herman
Let's call the US die Vereinigte Staten henceforth, if we're going to make German the leading language here after all these years since Schaffer's departure.

While we're at it, "Vereinigte Staaten"?

I've always liked Estados Unidos, principally because it is abbreviated EE.UU. Eeeeewwww :-)

AC

2018-08-19 21:04:38 UTC

Post by Herman
Let's call the US die Vereinigte Staten henceforth, if we're going to
make German the leading language here after all these years since
Schaffer's departure.

While we're at it, "Vereinigte Staaten"?

I've always liked Estados Unidos?, principally because it is abbreviated
EE.UU. Eeeeewwww :-)

My 6 year old granddaughter who lives in the midwest flew in to see us,
and we went to an amusement park. She's good at quickly making
friends, and having played with another girl at the park, the other
girl's mother asked her:

"Where do you live?"

"In Avon"

"That's nice, what State is that in?"

"United."

-Owen, close enough for government work, I guess.

Herman

2018-08-20 06:31:28 UTC

Post by O
"Where do you live?"
"In Avon"
"That's nice, what State is that in?"
"United."

Great! She's clearly been trained not to give her address to strangers.

l***@gmail.com

2018-08-18 20:07:43 UTC

Post by dk
Amsterdam already has too many
old creaky moldy hotels!

Does the " Yankee Hotel " still exist ? A 5th floor walk-up pensione down the street several blocks to one's right as one exited the Hauptbanhof downtown ?

Hi,

The Dutch have their own language, thank you. "Hauptbahnhof"is German.

Mort Linder

Gerard

2018-08-18 21:46:24 UTC

Post by l***@gmail.com

Post by dk
Amsterdam already has too many
old creaky moldy hotels!

Does the " Yankee Hotel " still exist ? A 5th floor walk-up pensione down the street several blocks to one's right as one exited the Hauptbanhof downtown ?

Hi,
The Dutch have their own language, thank you. "Hauptbahnhof"is German.
Mort Linder

That's correct.
See also: Wo ist der Bahnhof? - at:

Al Eisner

2018-08-16 21:28:18 UTC

Post by j***@yahoo.com
H comes after G.

Yeah, I guess that was the thinking.
They're going thru their rolodex real slow.

They must have filed Heras-Casado under "C".

Al

Frank Berger

2018-08-03 18:45:04 UTC

Time will go by. Someone will give him a second chance.
And I have no doubt that there are some male orchestra presidents who think they have the right to treat women how Gatti did and he got shafted — they'll want to help him out.

I cannot approve what he is alleged to have done, but I do believe in
repentance and redemption. Destroying him is not an acceptable course.
Bob Harper

Losing the privilege to conduct elite orchestras for a very long time is hardly "destroying" someone. It's a more than acceptable punishment.

It's not really punishment in the strict sense. It's orchestras
protecting their employees and their reputations.

If the means of my livelihood was taken (and my reputation tarnished) I'd feel punished.

There are consequences to bad behavior.

I don't think anyone said or implied otherwise.

Post by Thornhill
How should this situation have been handled? The WP never published its story and instead told the RCO about its investigation, and then the RCO announced that Gatti was resigning to spend more time with his family?

Did anyone suggest it should have been handled otherwise?

Post by Thornhill
If he can never get another gig with an elite orchestra because people don't want to work with someone who has a reputation for sexually harassing and assaulting women, well, that's his fault.

Did anyone suggest it wasn't?

There is a question of the punishment fitting the crime, though. There
are degrees of evil and punishments vary in severity. I'm not suggesting
about Gatti's or any other particular case. Where I used to work I'm
only familiar with some he said/she said cases. What generally happened
was a woman would accuse a man of something that was unwitnessed,
ranging fron unwanted back rubs all the way to quid pro quo type offers.
The accused was called in and told that he was accused and that if he
did it he had to stop and that if he was caught doing it he would be
fired. The accuser was told the accused had been so informed. Some
cases ended like that. Nobody was happy about this, of course. Sometimes
the accused and accused went on to be able to work together and
sometimes one or the other would quit (usually the accuser). In two
cases the accused was later observed doing something offensive and one
of those was fired. The other, a quite senior person was severely
rebuked and as word got out, embarrassed, and perhaps his advancement
was halted. I'm not aware of cases of multiple accusers, which seem to
be taken as evidence in and of itself.

Bob Harper

2018-08-04 15:25:35 UTC

There is a question of the punishment fitting the crime, though. There
are degrees of evil and punishments vary in severity. I'm not suggesting
about Gatti's or any other particular case. Where I used to work I'm
only familiar with some he said/she said cases. What generally happened
was a woman would accuse a man of something that was unwitnessed,
ranging fron unwanted back rubs all the way to quid pro quo type offers.
The accused was called in and told that he was accused and that if he
did it he had to stop and that if he was caught doing it he would be
fired. The accuser was told the accused had been so informed. Some
cases ended like that. Nobody was happy about this, of course. Sometimes
the accused and accused went on to be able to work together and
sometimes one or the other would quit (usually the accuser). In two
cases the accused was later observed doing something offensive and one
of those was fired. The other, a quite senior person was severely
rebuked and as word got out, embarrassed, and perhaps his advancement
was halted. I'm not aware of cases of multiple accusers, which seem to
be taken as evidence in and of itself.

This seems to me a pretty sensible way to handle such things, certainly
better than the 'allegation=guilt, off with (usually) his head!' that
seems to obtain today. In the case of *criminal* acts or accusations, of
course, the authorities need to be involved sooner rather than later.

Bob Harper

Russ (not Martha)

2018-08-03 16:28:20 UTC

Post by Gerard
https://www.gramophone.co.uk/classical-music-news/daniele-gatti-leaves-the-royal-concertgebouw

Who will replace him is the most interesting question now.

The safest bet would be a castrato.

Russ (not Martha)

Andrew Clarke

2018-08-03 23:48:18 UTC