Schumann Etudes Symphoniques and Fantasy

[Andy Evans]

This came up on another thread, and I pulled out my recordings of
Etudes Symphoniques and Fantasy to have a listen. I have a Brendel
coupling which is OK for a starting point. Don't like Kissin in
Fantasy.

So I'm inspired to ask what your favourites are in these two pieces.

[Sol L. Siegel]

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:58:58 -0700 (PDT), Andy Evans

I have a Brendel coupling which is OK for a starting point.

The 1960s Vanguard? That's one of my favorites in both works,
"classical" in bearing but still inspired. I haven't liked any of his
Philips Schumann that I've heard; it seems both dead and mannered.

As for the Etudes, I've always liked Pollini, even if he is more
virtuosic than poetic. He also does a good job of integrating the
posthumous etudes. (Brendel utterly botched even that on a CD I used
to own.) There's always Cortot, of course.

My other recordings of the Fantasie include the fiery 1960s Argerich
Ricordi version, which I had on a CBS LP and now have on an OOP EMI
CD; Annie Fischer on EMI; and Pollini. That's about my order of
preference.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

[td]

Post by Sol L. Siegel
On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:58:58 -0700 (PDT), Andy Evans

I have a Brendel coupling which is OK for a starting point.

The 1960s Vanguard?  That's one of my favorites in both works,
"classical" in bearing but still inspired.  I haven't liked any of his
Philips Schumann that I've heard; it seems both dead and mannered.
As for the Etudes, I've always liked Pollini, even if he is more
virtuosic than poetic.  He also does a good job of integrating the
posthumous etudes.  (Brendel utterly botched even that on a CD I used
to own.)  There's always Cortot, of course.
My other recordings of the Fantasie include the fiery 1960s Argerich
Ricordi version, which I had on a CBS LP and now have on an OOP EMI
CD; Annie Fischer on EMI; and Pollini.  That's about my order of
preference.

The greatest single performance of the Schumann Fantasy is the live
performance from 1984 with Nelson Freire at RTH. You'll find it in his
volume of the GPE. I also admit that I produced this live concert for
CBC Stereo at the time.

There is no more rapturous Reading of this music anywhere.

Alphee licensed it from the CBC in France, but that CD is now OP, I
think. As is the GPE volume.

ES? Try to find Stephen de Groote's live performance on a DG LP from
the 1980s. That was very special. Never issued on CD.

TD

[Russ (not Martha)]

On Sep 27, 1:29 pm, td <***@mac.com> wrote:
in France, but that CD is now OP, I

Post by td
think. As is the GPE volume.
E[tudes] S[ymphoniques]? Try to find Stephen de Groote's live performance on a DG LP from
the 1980s. That was very special. Never issued on CD.

None of those DG 'Concours' releases were issued on CD, AFAIK.

Back in 1981, Edward Rothstein reviewed several debut recordings in
this series, those by de Groote, David Lively, and Boris Bloch. He
did not mention the one by Mikhail Faerman, winner of the 1975 Queen
Elizabeth Competition. Faerman's LP had Brahms Paganini Variations
and Prokofiev 6th Sonata in terrific performances.

Rothstein had praise for de Groote, but with some reservations:

"Mr. de Groote performs Beethoven's ''Eroica'' Variations and
Schumann's Symphonic Etudes with a quirky energy that often disrupts
lines. He surely has something to say, and the skill to say it, but
willfulness commands more attention than coherent vocal intensity."

Russ (not Martha)

[td]

Post by td
in France, but that CD is now OP, I

Post by td
think. As is the GPE volume.
E[tudes] S[ymphoniques]? Try to find Stephen de Groote's live performance on a DG LP from
the 1980s. That was very special. Never issued on CD.

None of those DG 'Concours' releases were issued on CD, AFAIK.
Back in 1981, Edward Rothstein reviewed several debut recordings in
this series, those by de Groote, David Lively, and Boris Bloch.   He
did not mention the one by Mikhail Faerman, winner of the 1975 Queen
Elizabeth Competition.   Faerman's LP had Brahms Paganini Variations
and Prokofiev 6th Sonata in terrific performances.
"Mr. de Groote performs Beethoven's ''Eroica'' Variations and
Schumann's Symphonic Etudes with a quirky energy that often disrupts
lines. He surely has something to say, and the skill to say it, but
willfulness commands more attention than coherent vocal intensity."

I suggest you disregard ER and try to listen for yourself.

TD

[D***@aol.com]

Post by td

Post by td
in France, but that CD is now OP, I

Post by td
think. As is the GPE volume.
E[tudes] S[ymphoniques]? Try to find Stephen de Groote's live performance on a DG LP from
the 1980s. That was very special. Never issued on CD.

None of those DG 'Concours' releases were issued on CD, AFAIK.
Back in 1981, Edward Rothstein reviewed several debut recordings in
this series, those by de Groote, David Lively, and Boris Bloch. � He
did not mention the one by Mikhail Faerman, winner of the 1975 Queen
Elizabeth Competition. � Faerman's LP had Brahms Paganini Variations
and Prokofiev 6th Sonata in terrific performances.
"Mr. de Groote performs Beethoven's ''Eroica'' Variations and
Schumann's Symphonic Etudes with a quirky energy that often disrupts
lines. He surely has something to say, and the skill to say it, but
willfulness commands more attention than coherent vocal intensity."

I suggest you disregard ER and try to listen for yourself.
TD

I'm not trying to be difficult. Honestly. But who is ER?

Don Tait

[td]

Post by td

Post by td
in France, but that CD is now OP, I

Post by td
think. As is the GPE volume.
E[tudes] S[ymphoniques]? Try to find Stephen de Groote's live performance on a DG LP from
the 1980s. That was very special. Never issued on CD.

None of those DG 'Concours' releases were issued on CD, AFAIK.
Back in 1981, Edward Rothstein reviewed several debut recordings in
this series, those by de Groote, David Lively, and Boris Bloch. He
did not mention the one by Mikhail Faerman, winner of the 1975 Queen
Elizabeth Competition. Faerman's LP had Brahms Paganini Variations
and Prokofiev 6th Sonata in terrific performances.
"Mr. de Groote performs Beethoven's ''Eroica'' Variations and
Schumann's Symphonic Etudes with a quirky energy that often disrupts
lines. He surely has something to say, and the skill to say it, but
willfulness commands more attention than coherent vocal intensity."

I suggest you disregard ER and try to listen for yourself.
TD

  I'm not trying to be difficult. Honestly. But who is ER?

Edward Rothstein.

TD

[D***@aol.com]

Post by td

Post by Sol L. Siegel
On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:58:58 -0700 (PDT), Andy Evans

I have a Brendel coupling which is OK for a starting point.

The 1960s Vanguard? �That's one of my favorites in both works,
"classical" in bearing but still inspired. �I haven't liked any of his
Philips Schumann that I've heard; it seems both dead and mannered.
As for the Etudes, I've always liked Pollini, even if he is more
virtuosic than poetic. �He also does a good job of integrating the
posthumous etudes. �(Brendel utterly botched even that on a CD I used
to own.) �There's always Cortot, of course.
My other recordings of the Fantasie include the fiery 1960s Argerich
Ricordi version, which I had on a CBS LP and now have on an OOP EMI
CD; Annie Fischer on EMI; and Pollini. �That's about my order of
preference.

The greatest single performance of the Schumann Fantasy is the live
performance from 1984 with Nelson Freire at RTH. You'll find it in his
volume of the GPE.

What is RTH?

Thanks.

Don Tait

[Graham]

Post by td

Post by Sol L. Siegel
On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:58:58 -0700 (PDT), Andy Evans

I have a Brendel coupling which is OK for a starting point.

The 1960s Vanguard? ?That's one of my favorites in both works,
"classical" in bearing but still inspired. ?I haven't liked any of his
Philips Schumann that I've heard; it seems both dead and mannered.
As for the Etudes, I've always liked Pollini, even if he is more
virtuosic than poetic. ?He also does a good job of integrating the
posthumous etudes. ?(Brendel utterly botched even that on a CD I used
to own.) ?There's always Cortot, of course.
My other recordings of the Fantasie include the fiery 1960s Argerich
Ricordi version, which I had on a CBS LP and now have on an OOP EMI
CD; Annie Fischer on EMI; and Pollini. ?That's about my order of
preference.

The greatest single performance of the Schumann Fantasy is the live
performance from 1984 with Nelson Freire at RTH. You'll find it in his
volume of the GPE.

What is RTH?

Thanks.

Roy Thompson Hall
http://www.roythomson.com/home.cfm

Graham

[Steve de Mena]

Post by D***@aol.com

Post by td

Post by Sol L. Siegel
On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 08:58:58 -0700 (PDT), Andy Evans

I have a Brendel coupling which is OK for a starting point.

The 1960s Vanguard? �That's one of my favorites in both works,
"classical" in bearing but still inspired. �I haven't liked any of his
Philips Schumann that I've heard; it seems both dead and mannered.
As for the Etudes, I've always liked Pollini, even if he is more
virtuosic than poetic. �He also does a good job of integrating the
posthumous etudes. �(Brendel utterly botched even that on a CD I used
to own.) �There's always Cortot, of course.
My other recordings of the Fantasie include the fiery 1960s Argerich
Ricordi version, which I had on a CBS LP and now have on an OOP EMI
CD; Annie Fischer on EMI; and Pollini. �That's about my order of
preference.

The greatest single performance of the Schumann Fantasy is the live
performance from 1984 with Nelson Freire at RTH. You'll find it in his
volume of the GPE.

What is RTH?
Thanks.
Don Tait

Roy Thomson Hall in Toronto.

Steve

[Sol L. Siegel]

As for the Etudes... There's always Cortot, of course.

Just played it again (on Biddulph). A few clinkers, to be expected in
a 1929 recording, but still magic, emphasizing the poetic over the
virtuosic even in the most virtuosic passages. I do marginally prefer
Pollini's ordering - he plays the posthumous variations in order after
Etude V while Cortot scatters them throughout. I still wouldn't want
to be without either.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

[d***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
So I'm inspired to ask what your favourites are in these two pieces.

No collections of the Fantasy are complete without Fiorentino's. Some
critics have placed it at or near the "top".In fact, a live may be on
YouTube.

And despite studio doctoring, the Howoriwtz 1965 Carnegie.

One essential cd is the BBC Legends of a live 1969 (?) recital by
Kempff in London, which has a wonderful Fantasy, a Papillons which is
incredible, and a Brahms 3rd Sonata whose slow movement brings tears
each time and which I have listened to often stand alone. Quite a
cd !!

For the Etudes, I remain very partial to Kissin's live Carnegie debut
cd.

Rugby

[Andy Evans]

Post by d***@gmail.com
No collections of the Fantasy are complete without Fiorentino's. Some
critics have placed it at or near the "top".In fact, a live may be on
YouTube.

I'm over there right now listening - they have Richter and Argerich as
well

Post by d***@gmail.com
And despite studio doctoring, the Howoriwtz 1965 Carnegie.

Horowitz recorded the Fantasy? Wow. Didn't know that.

Andy

[Andy Evans]

Fiorentino's. Some

Post by Andy Evans

Post by d***@gmail.com
critics have placed it at or near the "top".In fact, a live may be on
YouTube.

I'm over there right now listening - they have Richter and Argerich as
well

Well - gave up on Fiorentino after a chunk of the first movement - not
my man in this. I thought Richter was good and got a lot of the
sonorities "right" as I hear them. de Larrocha I didn't connect with
too much. Sofronitsky very interesting but piano sound is
disappointing, as so often. Argerich is nice - gorgeous sultry photo
of her to go with it, pure Hollywood. Well no, more French Cinema -
Anna Karina for instance.

Listening to Eunice Norton - pretty good. Charles Rosen is very good
but incomplete.

I think so far I'd give it to Richter, even though he does go from
piano to forte in quite a precipitous manner.

But somewhere in my head is a performance that was quite magisterial.
Damn - what was it? Must be in my collection somewhere.......

Andy

[Al Eisner]

Post by Andy Evans
I think so far I'd give it to Richter, even though he does go from
piano to forte in quite a precipitous manner.

I like Richter quite a bit in the Fantasy, but I would give the edge
to Freire (the performance td recommended), in particular for the
first movement (with the second and third perhaps more on a par).

[JohnGavin]

Post by Andy Evans

Post by d***@gmail.com
No collections of the Fantasy are complete without Fiorentino's. Some
critics have placed it at or near the "top".In fact, a live may be on
YouTube.

I'm over there right now listening - they have Richter and Argerich as
well

Post by d***@gmail.com
And despite studio doctoring, the Howoriwtz 1965 Carnegie.

Horowitz recorded the Fantasy? Wow. Didn't know that.
Andy

You were better off not knowing it. :)

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by JohnGavin

Post by Andy Evans

Post by d***@gmail.com
No collections of the Fantasy are complete without Fiorentino's. Some
critics have placed it at or near the "top".In fact, a live may be on
YouTube.

I'm over there right now listening - they have Richter and Argerich as
well

Post by d***@gmail.com
And despite studio doctoring, the Howoriwtz 1965 Carnegie.

Horowitz recorded the Fantasy? Wow. Didn't know that.
Andy

You were better off not knowing it. :)

Agreed. It's terrible.

SE.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Andy Evans <***@gmail.com> appears to have caused the
following letters to be typed in news:7685ef29-7f7a-4c07-9925-

Post by Andy Evans
Horowitz recorded the Fantasy? Wow. Didn't know that.

Yup, in his "Historic Return." You can buy it with or without mistakes.

[Kip Williams]

Post by Matthew B. Tepper
following letters to be typed in news:7685ef29-7f7a-4c07-9925-

Post by Andy Evans
Horowitz recorded the Fantasy? Wow. Didn't know that.

Yup, in his "Historic Return." You can buy it with or without mistakes.

I uploaded Abbey Simon's performance not too long ago. I find him
generally satisfactory, but don't know the Fantasy well enough to say
how he compares in it.

Kip W

[Andy Evans]

I had a version of the fantasy on LP that I really liked - trying to
remember. Maybe it was Geza Anda? Any fans of his out there?

Andy

[HvT]

Post by Andy Evans
I had a version of the fantasy on LP that I really liked - trying to
remember. Maybe it was Geza Anda? Any fans of his out there?
Andy

Did Anda record the fantasy? I have a few versions of the etudes and
other Schumann collections by him but no fantasy. Are you sure that it
wasn't Pollini on that LP? In those days he was still a great pianist
and his fantasy made quite an impression.

BTW, I revisited Gieseking, Katchen and Nat but their interpretations
aren't very exceptional.

P.S. Kempff's live performance of the fantasy on a BBC recording is
great.

Henk

[Andy Evans]

Post by HvT
Did Anda record the fantasy? I have a few versions of the etudes and
other Schumann collections by him but no fantasy.
Henk

http://cgi.ebay.com/DGG~GEZA-ANDA~SCHUMANN~Symphonic-Etude+Fantasy~TULIP~M-_W0QQitemZ280265468230QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20080911?IMSfp=TL080911116008r6937

The above is an LP of Anda playing the Fantasy. So I may have had a
version of it, e.g. on Heliodor. I think it was this I liked a lot.

I have the Nat CD - rather middle of teh road. I also have a CD of
Casadesus in the Etuddes which
I should revisit.

Andy

[wimpie]

Post by HvT
Did Anda record the fantasy? I have a few versions of the etudes and
other Schumann collections by him but no fantasy.
Henk

http://cgi.ebay.com/DGG~GEZA-ANDA~SCHUMANN~Symphonic-Etude+Fantasy~TU...
The above is an LP of Anda playing the Fantasy. So I may have had a
version of it, e.g. on Heliodor. I think it was this I liked a lot.
I have the Nat CD - rather middle of teh road. I also have a CD of
Casadesus in the Etuddes which
I should revisit.
Andy

Anda's recording of the Fantasy (and also of the Etudes Symphoniques)
is available on DGG. The Fantasy is beautiful, if slightly impetuous,
his Davidsbundlertanze (also on this 2 CD set) are unparallelled. It's
some of the most haunting Schumann I ever heard.

W.

[td]

Post by wimpie

Post by HvT
Did Anda record the fantasy? I have a few versions of the etudes and
other Schumann collections by him but no fantasy.
Henk

http://cgi.ebay.com/DGG~GEZA-ANDA~SCHUMANN~Symphonic-Etude+Fantasy~TU...
The above is an LP of Anda playing the Fantasy. So I may have had a
version of it, e.g. on Heliodor. I think it was this I liked a lot.
I have the Nat CD - rather middle of teh road. I also have a CD of
Casadesus in the Etuddes which
I should revisit.
Andy

Anda's recording of the Fantasy (and also of the Etudes Symphoniques)
is available on DGG. The Fantasy is beautiful, if slightly impetuous,
his Davidsbundlertanze (also on this 2 CD set) are unparallelled. It's
some of the most haunting Schumann I ever heard.

You need to listen to some others.

I suggest you investigate Eric Le Sage's recording from France in his
on-going Schumann cycle.

Charles Rosen also knew this piece's secrets.

TD

[Andy Evans]

Post by HvT
Did Anda record the fantasy?

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6929799&style=classical

It's on this box set. I was having a little listen to the various
excerpts and thinking what a damn fine pinist Anda was. He always
seemed to to get just about the right tempo and mood for the pieces he
played - had a way of sounding "right". He seems to have sunk without
trace while less talented players are still talked about. did anything
happen to his career?

Andy

[Dawg]

Post by Andy Evans

Post by HvT
Did Anda record the fantasy?

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6929799&style=classical
It's on this box set. I was having a little listen to the various
excerpts and thinking what a damn fine pinist Anda was. He always
seemed to to get just about the right tempo and mood for the pieces he
played - had a way of sounding "right". He seems to have sunk without
trace while less talented players are still talked about. did anything
happen to his career?

I have always had Anda/Fricsay at the back of my mind wrt the Bartok
piano concertos. Maybe it is time I got them?

Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree

[HvT]

Post by Andy Evans

Post by HvT
Did Anda record the fantasy?

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6929799&style=classical
It's on this box set. I was having a little listen to the various
excerpts and thinking what a damn fine pinist Anda was. He always
seemed to to get just about the right tempo and mood for the pieces he
played - had a way of sounding "right". He seems to have sunk without
trace while less talented players are still talked about. did anything
happen to his career?
Andy

I have always liked Anda (including his Bartok and Mozart). In his later
live recordings he could be very unpredictable, he had a tendency to
play wildly and erratically instead of being truly passionate.

Anda didn't travel much outside Germany, Austria and Switzerland, AFAIK.
He died early. Besides, he certainly isn't a very popular man among the
older RMCR-ers.

BTW, many thanks for the URL! I'll probably buy the set, although I have
most of the tracks. Excellent recordings of Schumann's fantasy are rare.

Henk

[Rugby]

Excellent recordings of Schumann's fantasy are rare.

Live 1969 Kempff on BBC Legends noted earlier here.

Rugby

[HvT]

|Excellent recordings of Schumann's fantasy are rare.
|
|Live 1969 Kempff on BBC Legends noted earlier here.
|
|Rugby

I fully agree! It's one of the great performances of the piece!

Henk

[td]

Post by HvT

Post by Andy Evans

Post by HvT
Did Anda record the fantasy?

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6929799&style=classical
It's on this box set. I was having a little listen to the various
excerpts and thinking what a damn fine pinist Anda was. He always
seemed to to get just about the right tempo and mood for the pieces he
played - had a way of sounding "right". He seems to have sunk without
trace while less talented players are still talked about. did anything
happen to his career?
Andy

I have always liked Anda (including his Bartok and Mozart). In his later
live recordings he could be very unpredictable, he had a tendency to
play wildly and erratically instead of being truly passionate.
Anda didn't travel much outside Germany, Austria and Switzerland, AFAIK.
He died early. Besides, he certainly isn't a very popular man among the
older RMCR-ers.
BTW, many thanks for the URL! I'll probably buy the set, although I have
most of the tracks. Excellent recordings of Schumann's fantasy are rare.

As are LIVE performances.

I heard Anda play the Fantasy in Paris. His technical ease in the
second movement was simply jaw-droppingly fabulous. He managed to play
the notorious leaps as though they were childs play.

Incredible.

Walter Legge and Betty Blackhead were sitting in a loge at the TCE. He
used to produce Anda for EMI before he went over to DG.

Truly a great pianist, I think.

TD

[JohnGavin]

Post by td

Post by HvT

Post by Andy Evans

Post by HvT
Did Anda record the fantasy?

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6929799&style=classical
It's on this box set. I was having a little listen to the various
excerpts and thinking what a damn fine pinist Anda was. He always
seemed to to get just about the right tempo and mood for the pieces he
played - had a way of sounding "right". He seems to have sunk without
trace while less talented players are still talked about. did anything
happen to his career?
Andy

I have always liked Anda (including his Bartok and Mozart). In his later
live recordings he could be very unpredictable, he had a tendency to
play wildly and erratically instead of being truly passionate.
Anda didn't travel much outside Germany, Austria and Switzerland, AFAIK.
He died early. Besides, he certainly isn't a very popular man among the
older RMCR-ers.
BTW, many thanks for the URL! I'll probably buy the set, although I have
most of the tracks. Excellent recordings of Schumann's fantasy are rare.

As are LIVE performances.
I heard Anda play the Fantasy in Paris. His technical ease in the
second movement was simply jaw-droppingly fabulous. He managed to play
the notorious leaps as though they were childs play.
Incredible.
Walter Legge and Betty Blackhead were sitting in a loge at the TCE. He
used to produce Anda for EMI before he went over to DG.
Truly a great pianist, I think.
TD- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

OK - what do you have against Elizabeth Schwartzkopf?

[HvT]

Post by HvT
Anda didn't travel much outside Germany, Austria and Switzerland, AFAIK.
He died early. Besides, he certainly isn't a very popular man among the
older RMCR-ers.
BTW, many thanks for the URL! I'll probably buy the set, although I have
most of the tracks. Excellent recordings of Schumann's fantasy are rare.

|As are LIVE performances.

|I heard Anda play the Fantasy in Paris. His technical ease in the
|second movement was simply jaw-droppingly fabulous. He managed to play
|the notorious leaps as though they were childs play.

|Incredible.

|Walter Legge and Betty Blackhead were sitting in a loge at the TCE. He
|used to produce Anda for EMI before he went over to DG.

|Truly a great pianist, I think.

|TD

Well, I can no longer resist Andy's and your recommendations - I'll
order the set!

BTW, in another post you mention Le Sage. Although he has his critics I
do like the music for solo piano. I am not always sure about Schumann's
chamber music. I don't know whether it's the music or the performances I
don't like = probably a combination ...

Henk

[Andy Evans]

Reviving an old thread to see if there are any more recommendations for the Etudes Symphoniques. I just went through a pile on YT and was starting to think the work is unplayable after having my head bombarded with loud banging chords - especially in Variation 2 - from a variety of well-known names. So into the bin go the following long list:

Richter, Gilels, Pogorelich, Ashkenazy, Brendel, Lisitska, Schiff, Petrov, Pollini, Pletnev, Sofronitsky, Kissin, Gavrilov, Arrau, Grinberg, Novaes, Gieseking, Ogdon, Guller, Kempff, Cherkassky, Friere, Perlemuter, Grainger, Katchen, Cziffra, Francois, Nat, Anda

This leaves very few that show the sensitivity and imagination to convert this piece from a technical exercise into something truly musical. So far the list looks like this, slim pickings to be sure:
Rubinstein

Cortot

Firkusny

Hess

R.Serkin

[HT]

Post by Andy Evans
Rubinstein http://youtu.be/8FLsf_LK3oc
Cortot http://youtu.be/y3BKHmr_f2E
Firkusny http://youtu.be/75bH19erj2Y
Hess http://youtu.be/JXvO5st-tBo
R.Serkin http://youtu.be/JNnVYSksSNY

What about Casadesus:

Henk

[HT]

And the one I'm imprinted on - and still like:

Henk

[Andy Evans]

Post by HT
http://youtu.be/xMwOp8VwBMM
Henk

Brailovsky is a good call. Casadesus too. These are more like it!

[Mandryka]

Tom Deacon once put me on to a couple of “interesting” ones, Fabienne Jacquinot and Steven De Groote. I have the de Groote, maybe taken from YouTube. And the Jacquinot is on Qobuz.

[Mandryka]

Are there any recordings of the Schumann etudes on an old C19 piano, a real Schumann piano?

I’ve been listening to Aapo Hakkinen’s new recording with Mächenerzährlungen and I the old piano sounds good to me.

[MiNe109]

Post by Mandryka
Are there any recordings of the Schumann etudes on an old C19 piano, a real Schumann piano?

Demus, for one.

Pierre Bouyer has recorded them on an Erard and on a Streicher. Sample here:

https://soundcloud.com/pierrebouyer/sets/schumann-sur-3-pianoforte-etudes-symphoniques

Stephen

Post by Mandryka
I’ve been listening to Aapo Hakkinen’s new recording with
Mächenerzährlungen and I the old piano sounds good to me.

[Mandryka]

So does Demus use a fortepiano in his complete Schumann (I’ve never heard it as far as I remember)? Or is it on some other recording?

[MiNe109]

Post by Mandryka
So does Demus use a fortepiano in his complete Schumann (I’ve never
heard it as far as I remember)? Or is it on some other recording?

It's on his 1964 Harmonia Mundi lp.

Stephen

[Mandryka]

Post by MiNe109

Post by Mandryka
So does Demus use a fortepiano in his complete Schumann (I’ve never
heard it as far as I remember)? Or is it on some other recording?

It's on his 1964 Harmonia Mundi lp.
Stephen

Thank you, you're being helpful. However I can't find the LP on discogs! Never mind, I don't have the playback or transfer equipment to hear it.

[c***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
Richter, Gilels, Pogorelich, Ashkenazy, Brendel, Lisitska, Schiff, Petrov, Pollini, Pletnev, Sofronitsky, Kissin, Gavrilov, Arrau, Grinberg, Novaes, Gieseking, Ogdon, Guller, Kempff, Cherkassky, Friere, Perlemuter, Grainger, Katchen, Cziffra, Francois, Nat, Anda
Rubinstein http://youtu.be/8FLsf_LK3oc
Cortot http://youtu.be/y3BKHmr_f2E
Firkusny http://youtu.be/75bH19erj2Y
Hess http://youtu.be/JXvO5st-tBo
R.Serkin http://youtu.be/JNnVYSksSNY

Well, that's a lot of listening; I'd never be able to compare so many recordings at once. While I agree about Cortot and Hess, I also like Anda and Freire very much. Whatever... Try Fiorentino and Goerner.

AC

[dk]

Post by Andy Evans
Richter, Gilels, Pogorelich, Ashkenazy, Brendel, Lisitska, Schiff, Petrov, Pollini, Pletnev, Sofronitsky, Kissin, Gavrilov, Arrau, Grinberg, Novaes, Gieseking, Ogdon, Guller, Kempff, Cherkassky, Friere, Perlemuter, Grainger, Katchen, Cziffra, Francois, Nat, Anda
Rubinstein http://youtu.be/8FLsf_LK3oc
Cortot http://youtu.be/y3BKHmr_f2E
Firkusny http://youtu.be/75bH19erj2Y
Hess http://youtu.be/JXvO5st-tBo
R.Serkin http://youtu.be/JNnVYSksSNY

You missed Fabienne Jacquinot:

dk

[Mandryka]

Post by dk

Post by Andy Evans
Richter, Gilels, Pogorelich, Ashkenazy, Brendel, Lisitska, Schiff, Petrov, Pollini, Pletnev, Sofronitsky, Kissin, Gavrilov, Arrau, Grinberg, Novaes, Gieseking, Ogdon, Guller, Kempff, Cherkassky, Friere, Perlemuter, Grainger, Katchen, Cziffra, Francois, Nat, Anda
Rubinstein http://youtu.be/8FLsf_LK3oc
Cortot http://youtu.be/y3BKHmr_f2E
Firkusny http://youtu.be/75bH19erj2Y
Hess http://youtu.be/JXvO5st-tBo
R.Serkin http://youtu.be/JNnVYSksSNY

http://youtu.be/TpsHy9HZPi0
dk

I did not!

[dk]

Post by Mandryka

Post by dk

Post by Andy Evans
Richter, Gilels, Pogorelich, Ashkenazy, Brendel, Lisitska, Schiff, Petrov, Pollini, Pletnev, Sofronitsky, Kissin, Gavrilov, Arrau, Grinberg, Novaes, Gieseking, Ogdon, Guller, Kempff, Cherkassky, Friere, Perlemuter, Grainger, Katchen, Cziffra, Francois, Nat, Anda
Rubinstein http://youtu.be/8FLsf_LK3oc
Cortot http://youtu.be/y3BKHmr_f2E
Firkusny http://youtu.be/75bH19erj2Y
Hess http://youtu.be/JXvO5st-tBo
R.Serkin http://youtu.be/JNnVYSksSNY

http://youtu.be/TpsHy9HZPi0

I did not!

Sorry, that was for Andy Evans.
Confused by nesting of quoted
messages.

dk

[s***@hotmail.com]

Hi Andy

Saying Richter, Gilels, Pogorelich, Ashkenazy, Brendel, Lisitska, Schiff, Petrov, Pollini, Pletnev, Sofronitsky, Kissin, Gavrilov, Arrau, Grinberg, Novaes, Gieseking, Ogdon, Guller, Kempff, Cherkassky, Friere, Perlemuter, Grainger, Katchen, Cziffra, Francois, Nat, and Anda don’t play this as something “truly musical” is a bit hard, I think. While I don’t know many of these recordings, I enjoy quite a few of them. Some I might myself put in the bin, but not all of them. Is there really nothing you enjoy about any of them? Or is it enough for you to discard a recording because you don’t like how one particular variation is performed?

To avoid being mistaken: I am just curious about your viewpoint, not saying your approach is “wrong”.

Soeren

[Andy Evans]

Post by s***@hotmail.com
Hi Andy
Saying Richter, Gilels, Pogorelich, Ashkenazy, Brendel, Lisitska, Schiff, Petrov, Pollini, Pletnev, Sofronitsky, Kissin, Gavrilov, Arrau, Grinberg, Novaes, Gieseking, Ogdon, Guller, Kempff, Cherkassky, Friere, Perlemuter, Grainger, Katchen, Cziffra, Francois, Nat, and Anda don’t play this as something “truly musical” is a bit hard, I think. While I don’t know many of these recordings, I enjoy quite a few of them. Some I might myself put in the bin, but not all of them. Is there really nothing you enjoy about any of them? Or is it enough for you to discard a recording because you don’t like how one particular variation is performed?
To avoid being mistaken: I am just curious about your viewpoint, not saying your approach is “wrong”.
Soeren

Purely personal. All this is subjective anyway. I would say that in general many big name pianists aren't so successful in Schumann. I think Schumann poses stylistic challenges that require some creative thinking outside the box.

[dk]

Post by Andy Evans
I think Schumann poses stylistic challenges that
require some creative thinking outside the box.

Since most instruments used in classical music are
boxes of various sizes and shapes, are you suggesting
Schumann's music would be more suitably performed on
saxophones ?!?

dk

[Andy Evans]

Post by dk

Post by Andy Evans
I think Schumann poses stylistic challenges that
require some creative thinking outside the box.

Since most instruments used in classical music are
boxes of various sizes and shapes, are you suggesting
Schumann's music would be more suitably performed on
saxophones ?!?
dk

Our dear Schumann was a rather disturbed individual. Who knows what he heard in his head - maybe something between a network of rooks at twilight and a jamboree of banjos on the town square....?

[s***@hotmail.com]

I agree this of course is subjective. I tend to appreciate a lot of quite different recordings - I think there often are many different ways of playing a work that are revealing. Maybe I should try to be more discerning. I have never thought of Schumann as difficult to play in terms of style, but maybe that’s a superficial attitude. I’ll try to listen to some of your preferred recordings with that in mind.

Soeren

[AB]

Post by dk

Post by Andy Evans
Richter, Gilels, Pogorelich, Ashkenazy, Brendel, Lisitska, Schiff, Petrov, Pollini, Pletnev, Sofronitsky, Kissin, Gavrilov, Arrau, Grinberg, Novaes, Gieseking, Ogdon, Guller, Kempff, Cherkassky, Friere, Perlemuter, Grainger, Katchen, Cziffra, Francois, Nat, Anda
Rubinstein http://youtu.be/8FLsf_LK3oc
Cortot http://youtu.be/y3BKHmr_f2E
Firkusny http://youtu.be/75bH19erj2Y
Hess http://youtu.be/JXvO5st-tBo
R.Serkin http://youtu.be/JNnVYSksSNY

http://youtu.be/TpsHy9HZPi0
dk

sounds very good to me. could have used a better piano

AB

[Neil]

Post by Andy Evans

Post by HvT
Did Anda record the fantasy?

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6929799&style=classical
It's on this box set. I was having a little listen to the various
excerpts and thinking what a damn fine pinist Anda was.

My favorite recordings --
Schumann Etudes Symphoniques
Ashkenazy

Fantasy
Perahia

Neil Miller, author: The Piano Lessons Book & Piano Classics Analyzed
Methods and theory for confident memorized performances. Amazon.com
Search: Neil Miller Piano Lessons Book or Neil Miller Piano Analyzed

[Don Rice]

On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:00:18 -0400, Kip Williams

Post by Kip Williams
I uploaded Abbey Simon's performance not too long ago. I find him
generally satisfactory, but don't know the Fantasy well enough to say
how he compares in it.
Kip W

Here is my transfer of Sofronitsky playing the Symphonic Etudes and
the Fantasia op. 17 from the Melodiya lp set 7 of the "Complete"
recordings.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/t9no3wcuhym/Schumann
Symphonic Etudes op13 - op Post - performed Nov. 18, 1959.mp3

http://www.mediafire.com/file/j0nimza51dx/Schumann
Fantasia op 17 - performed Nov. 18, 1959.mp3

I used Har-Bal to re-equalize the recordings and they seem somewhat
better sounding to me. Let me know what you think - especially if
you've heard the same performances in some other incarnation.
Don

[Andy Evans]

Post by Don Rice
On Sun, 28 Sep 2008 22:00:18 -0400, Kip Williams

Post by Kip Williams
I uploaded Abbey Simon's performance not too long ago. I find him
generally satisfactory, but don't know the Fantasy well enough to say
how he compares in it.
Kip W

Here is my transfer of Sofronitsky playing the Symphonic Etudes and
the Fantasia op. 17 from the Melodiya lp set 7 of the "Complete"
recordings.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/t9no3wcuhym/Schumann
Symphonic Etudes op13 - op Post - performed Nov. 18, 1959.mp3
http://www.mediafire.com/file/j0nimza51dx/Schumann
Fantasia op 17 - performed Nov. 18, 1959.mp3
I used Har-Bal to re-equalize the recordings and they seem somewhat
better sounding to me. Let me know what you think - especially if
you've heard the same performances in some other incarnation.
Don

thanks for that!

does anybody know Backhaus and Pletnev in the Fantasy?

[M. A.]

Post by Andy Evans
Pletnev in the Fantasy?

A rather dark and mystic reading (not really Sturm und Drang), but the most
gorgeous pianism and sound there is.

M. A.

[wimpie]

Post by M. A.

Post by Andy Evans
Pletnev in the Fantasy?

A rather dark and mystic reading (not really Sturm und Drang), but the most
gorgeous pianism and sound there is.
M. A.

Well, Pletniev is "special", as always, but he makes Schumann
sometimes sound like Moussorgsky and he has this weird tendancy of
playing extra notes in chords (as he also did in his Beethoven
Concerto performances) that may not be to anybody's tast.

Does he actually still play the piano? I read that he wanted to stop
playing alltogether and concentrate on conducting?

W.

[M. A.]

Post by wimpie

Post by M. A.

Post by Andy Evans
Pletnev in the Fantasy?

A rather dark and mystic reading (not really Sturm und Drang), but the
most gorgeous pianism and sound there is.

Well, Pletniev is "special", as always, but he makes Schumann
sometimes sound like Moussorgsky and he has this weird tendancy of
playing extra notes in chords (as he also did in his Beethoven
Concerto performances) that may not be to anybody's tast.

Well, I just spent my evening at a recital by Olli Mustonen.

Believe me, Pletnev's Schumann is less moussorgskean than Mustonen's
Tchaikovsky prokofiev-like. :-)

Post by wimpie
Does he actually still play the piano? I read that he wanted to stop
playing alltogether and concentrate on conducting?

Yes, I think he stopped.

The Concert Schedule at the inofficial website www.mikhailpletnev.net only
lists performances as conductor.

Does that make sense? He can't be really as good as conductor as he is as
pianist, now can he?

M. A.

[Kip Williams]

Post by Don Rice
Here is my transfer of Sofronitsky playing the Symphonic Etudes and
the Fantasia op. 17 from the Melodiya lp set 7 of the "Complete"
recordings.

Vielen Dank!

Kip W

[Sol L. Siegel]

Post by Don Rice
Here is my transfer of Sofronitsky playing the Symphonic Etudes and
the Fantasia op. 17 from the Melodiya lp set 7 of the "Complete"
recordings.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/t9no3wcuhym/Schumann
Symphonic Etudes op13 - op Post - performed Nov. 18, 1959.mp3
http://www.mediafire.com/file/j0nimza51dx/Schumann
Fantasia op 17 - performed Nov. 18, 1959.mp3
I used Har-Bal to re-equalize the recordings and they seem somewhat
better sounding to me. Let me know what you think - especially if
you've heard the same performances in some other incarnation.

Not bad - except for some hitting-the-wall distortion on a few of the
fortissimo chords.

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

[Sol L. Siegel]

Post by Sol L. Siegel
Not bad - except for some hitting-the-wall distortion on a few of the
fortissimo chords.

Whoops: I'm guilty of bad manners here. I should have thanked Don for
posting them in the first place.

Thanks, Don!

- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

[Don Rice]

Post by Sol L. Siegel

Post by Sol L. Siegel
Not bad - except for some hitting-the-wall distortion on a few of the
fortissimo chords.

Whoops: I'm guilty of bad manners here. I should have thanked Don for
posting them in the first place.
Thanks, Don!
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA
- Sol L. Siegel, Philadelphia, PA USA

You're welcome - unfortunately, the truth is the truth and I asked for
it. (-:
I just don't know how to hide/undo that overloading in the loud
spots. It is most certainly there. Overall, I think the
not-so-loud-spots worked out a bit better.
Best Wishes,
Don

[Charles Milton Ling]

Post by Andy Evans
This came up on another thread, and I pulled out my recordings of
Etudes Symphoniques and Fantasy to have a listen. I have a Brendel
coupling which is OK for a starting point. Don't like Kissin in
Fantasy.
So I'm inspired to ask what your favourites are in these two pieces.

I have a recollection of liking the (very) young Sgouros in the Etudes.
Twas long ago, I might think differently today, but can't find the
recording...

Greetings to all,
Charley

[Steve Emerson]

In article

Post by Andy Evans
This came up on another thread, and I pulled out my recordings of
Etudes Symphoniques and Fantasy to have a listen. I have a Brendel
coupling which is OK for a starting point. Don't like Kissin in
Fantasy.
So I'm inspired to ask what your favourites are in these two pieces.

A full list of favorites is too big a job right now, but Richter,
Gilels, Sofronitsky, Cortot, and Cherkassky are some of them in the
Etudes.

A Fantasy that more people should know is the one Bashkirov recorded for
Melodiya, which I recently discovered is not the same as the one EMI
released. The Melodiya is much more spirited and less cut-and-dried.
Gorgeous and utterly original, particularly in the first movement.

Someone in the thread mentioned Annie Fischer on EMI. It isn't bad, but
her BBC Legends performance is of near-desert-island caliber. A year or
two ago I exposed an experienced Schumann aficionado to it -- he loved
it, but was at a complete loss to guess who it might be.

For Richter, it's good to know both the EMI and the Prague performance
released by Multisonic, which exceeds the former in volatility.

"Starting point" is just about the right term for Brendel in these
works. The etudes are more his sort of thing and he does an OK job. The
Fantasy strikes me as an experiment that fails badly and ought to
convince all comers not to repeat it.

SE.

[Herman]

I'm rather surprised that the live vulcanic Arrau Fantasy, in Ascona, 1959, (which I have on Ermitage) has completely disappeared from the radar.

[JohnGavin]

Sergio Fiorentino’s Fantasy is very fine IMO. I remember liking Pollini’s Symphonic Etudes.......it’s been a while.

[l***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
This came up on another thread, and I pulled out my recordings of
Etudes Symphoniques and Fantasy to have a listen. I have a Brendel
coupling which is OK for a starting point. Don't like Kissin in
Fantasy.
So I'm inspired to ask what your favourites are in these two pieces.

The FIRST Decca recording by Ashkenazy is marvelous. Do ignore the mediocre second recording.

Mort Linder