#Judge tells religious whacks to stop pretending evolution ain't so

[1356 Dead]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4730866,00.html

Ga. Evolution Stickers Ordered Removed


Thursday January 13, 2005 4:46 PM

By DOUG GROSS

Associated Press Writer

ATLANTA (AP) - A federal judge on Thursday ordered the removal of
stickers placed in high school biology textbooks that call evolution
``a theory, not a fact.''

The judge ruled that the disclaimers put in the books by Cobb County
school officials in 2002 were unconstitutional.
Parents and the American Civil Liberties Union had challenged the
stickers in court, arguing they violated the constitutional separation
of church and state.

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

Post by 1356 Dead
ATLANTA (AP) - A federal judge on Thursday ordered the removal of
stickers placed in high school biology textbooks that call evolution
``a theory, not a fact.''

Well, it *is* a theory. I'm as atheist as anyone, but accepting a
working explanation for observations as absolute truth on the basis of
a cursory textbook treatment isn't really an improvement over
religion.

Post by 1356 Dead
The judge ruled that the disclaimers put in the books by Cobb County
school officials in 2002 were unconstitutional.

Great, so we can have more conservative whining about activist judges.
Cobb County (which happens to be where I live) leans Republican enough
as it is without creating new wedge issues.

Post by 1356 Dead
Parents and the American Civil Liberties Union had challenged the
stickers in court, arguing they violated the constitutional separation
of church and state.

I'm all for separation of church and state, but I didn't see any
proselytizing on those stickers.

[Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )]

Post by 1356 Dead
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4730866,00.html
Ga. Evolution Stickers Ordered Removed
Thursday January 13, 2005 4:46 PM
By DOUG GROSS
Associated Press Writer
ATLANTA (AP) - A federal judge on Thursday ordered the removal of
stickers placed in high school biology textbooks that call evolution
``a theory, not a fact.''

Since there is no such thing as 'fact' in science, what's wrong with
calling theories of evolution what they are, theory?

Post by 1356 Dead
The judge ruled that the disclaimers put in the books by Cobb County
school officials in 2002 were unconstitutional.
Parents and the American Civil Liberties Union had challenged the
stickers in court, arguing they violated the constitutional separation
of church and state.

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

Post by Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )
Since there is no such thing as 'fact' in science

Is it your opinion that objects fall when you drop them?

[Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )]

Post by Christopher Benson-Manica

Post by Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )
Since there is no such thing as 'fact' in science

Is it your opinion that objects fall when you drop them?

That's not science. Science has to make some assumptions, like that
reality operates in a manner that is repeatable over space and time. Of
course our perception of reality might be wrong. If you are in the
International Space Station and you drop an apple, it doesn't appear to
fall down at all.

Science is about finding theories that can be tested and shown false,
the implicit denial of nihilism. Any theories that are untestable or
that cannot be disproved are not scientific theories. This doesn't mean
the theories are wrong or that efforts to seek testable theories are not
part of the scientific process.

[Jeffrey Turner]

Post by Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )

Post by Christopher Benson-Manica

Post by Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )
Since there is no such thing as 'fact' in science

Is it your opinion that objects fall when you drop them?

That's not science. Science has to make some assumptions, like that
reality operates in a manner that is repeatable over space and time. Of
course our perception of reality might be wrong. If you are in the
International Space Station and you drop an apple, it doesn't appear to
fall down at all.
Science is about finding theories that can be tested and shown false,
the implicit denial of nihilism. Any theories that are untestable or
that cannot be disproved are not scientific theories. This doesn't mean
the theories are wrong or that efforts to seek testable theories are not
part of the scientific process.

Evolution happens, it happens all the time. It is an established fact.
That is why there are theories _of_ [about] evolution which try to
explain the mechanisms of evolution and the evolutionary history of all
life on earth.

Gravity is also a fact. Einstein's Theory of General Relativity
replaced Newton's Gravitational Theory as the reigning paradigm for
explaining gravity in the early part of last century.

--Jeff
--
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation. War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman

In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky

The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken

[Christopher Benson-Manica]

Post by Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )
That's not science.

Sure it is, or at least part of science. It's an empirical
observation.

Post by Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )
Science has to make some assumptions, like that
reality operates in a manner that is repeatable over space and time.

Isn't reality self-consistent by definition?

Post by Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )
Of
course our perception of reality might be wrong. If you are in the
International Space Station and you drop an apple, it doesn't appear to
fall down at all.

That's another empirical observation. The other part of science is
theories that attempt to predict empirical observations.

Post by Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )
Any theories that are untestable or
that cannot be disproved are not scientific theories.

Does that mean that intelligent design is not scientific?

[Guy]

In talk.politics.misc "Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all

Post by Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )
Since there is no such thing as 'fact' in science

Is it your opinion that objects fall when you drop them?

Objects don't fall when they are dropped in the absence of gravity.

--
Christopher Benson-Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
ataru(at)cyberspace.org | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.

[unknown]

Post by Guy
Objects don't fall when they are dropped in the absence of gravity.

That's why when you laugh your ass off it never actually hits the floor.

[qwerty]

"Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting

Post by Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )

Post by 1356 Dead
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4730866,00.html
Ga. Evolution Stickers Ordered Removed
Thursday January 13, 2005 4:46 PM
By DOUG GROSS
Associated Press Writer
ATLANTA (AP) - A federal judge on Thursday ordered the removal of
stickers placed in high school biology textbooks that call evolution
``a theory, not a fact.''

Since there is no such thing as 'fact' in science, what's wrong with
calling theories of evolution what they are, theory?

http://www.amos.indiana.edu/library/scripts/theory.html

In general when we refer to a theory we mean something that's not
proven yet. In science it's different, as Yael and Don discuss in this
Moment of Science.

Y: Today, on "A Moment of Science," we clear up the difference between
a scientific theory and a scientific law.

D: Let me guess. You're talking about that argument that if the theory
of evolution were true, it would actually be a law.

Y: Yes--I'm tired of hearing people argue that the fact that evolution
is a theory means that modern science itself isn't convinced it really
happens.

D: Yeah, me too.

Y: And that's why I thought it's worth going over the terminology one
more time.

D: Well, the definition of a law is easy. It's a description--usually
mathematical--of some aspect of the natural world.

Y: Like gravity.

D: Exactly. The law of gravity describes and quantifies the attraction
between two objects. But the law of gravity doesn't explain what
gravity is or why it might work in this way. That's because that kind
of explanation falls into the realm of theory. And the theory that
explains gravity is the theory of general relativity.

Y: Right. According to the National Academy of Sciences, a scientific
theory is a "well- substantiated explanation of some aspect of the
natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested
hypotheses." In other words, all scientific theories are supported by
evidence, and you can test them, and--most importantly--you can use
them to make predictions.

D: So based on that definition, theories never change into laws, no
matter how much evidence out there supports them. Formulating theories,
in fact, is the end goal of science.

Y: So to say evolution is just a theory is actually an argument for it
and not against it. You can't do any better in science than to be a
theory.

[h***@nospam.com]

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:11:10 -0800, "Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in

Post by Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )

Post by 1356 Dead
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4730866,00.html
Ga. Evolution Stickers Ordered Removed
Thursday January 13, 2005 4:46 PM
By DOUG GROSS
Associated Press Writer
ATLANTA (AP) - A federal judge on Thursday ordered the removal of
stickers placed in high school biology textbooks that call evolution
``a theory, not a fact.''

Since there is no such thing as 'fact' in science, what's wrong with
calling theories of evolution what they are, theory?

Watch out for the Theory of Gravity. Careful you don't jump too
high, you might go into orbit, because, after all, it is just a
theory.



Hal

[Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )]

Post by h***@nospam.com
On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 11:11:10 -0800, "Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in

Post by Bill Bonde ( ''The chamber was in confusion, all the voices shouting loud'' )

Post by 1356 Dead
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-4730866,00.html
Ga. Evolution Stickers Ordered Removed
Thursday January 13, 2005 4:46 PM
By DOUG GROSS
Associated Press Writer
ATLANTA (AP) - A federal judge on Thursday ordered the removal of
stickers placed in high school biology textbooks that call evolution
``a theory, not a fact.''

Since there is no such thing as 'fact' in science, what's wrong with
calling theories of evolution what they are, theory?

Watch out for the Theory of Gravity. Careful you don't jump too
high, you might go into orbit, because, after all, it is just a
theory.

What theory of gravity?