Post by ***@gmail.comPost by ***@gmail.comRick, you really need to expose yourself to modern biblical scholarship :-)
There is no mention in the Genesis story of the fall of man, and life
in the Garden of Eden is never described as a sinless existence. These
were elements introduced later by ancient interpreters.
If you want to know the truth ...
There's no devil in the Genesis story either, just a talking serpent. You
need to read more.
Daniel, you say I need to read more. I have over many years. It's why
I now raise my voice to correct your misleading and misguided posts so
that any harm you would seek to do will be shown for what it is: lies,
and misunderstandings.
In your prior message you say sin was not in the Garden of Eden. Your
exact quote:
"There is no mention in the Genesis story of the fall of man,
and life in the Garden of Eden is never described as a sinless
existence. These were elements introduced later by ancient
interpreters."
What is sin? It's missing the mark, an archery term. God had given
Adam and Eve a standard in the Garden of Eden. They both knew it, and
they consciously disobeyed it, and therefore suffered the consequences
that God had told them would happen:
Genesis 3:1-7
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%203&version=KJV;NIV
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the
field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the
woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every
tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the
fruit of the trees of the garden:
3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of
the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither
shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
This is Eve responding. She was made after Adam. The guidance God had
given to Adam was also given to Eve. God gave Adam and Eve both a
boundary line and a warning of what would happen if they crossed it.
They were told not to cross it, so that when they did cross it that was sin.
The fall of man comes as a result of their actions:
Genesis 3:14-19
14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou
hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and
above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt
thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy
life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and
between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head,
and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy
sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring
forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband,
and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto
the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of
which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of
it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt
thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee;
and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou
return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken:
for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
The above is reinforced by what we read later on in scripture, as it was
revealed 100s of years (over 1,000 years) after the above was written down:
Romans 5:12-19
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+5%3A12-19&version=KJV;NIV
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
And also a confirmation:
1 Corinthians 15:45-47
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Cor+15%3A45-1Cor+15%3A47&version=KJV;NIV
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living
soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that
which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is
the Lord from heaven.
We live in the only world we've ever known. We just assume this is how
it's always been, but it wasn't always like this. The Earth God created
was a paradise. The Earth tended to itself. Nothing poisonous or
harmful. No death in the conventional sense. God is the author of
life, and everything He created was of that form.
When sin entered in, something alternate was given. And it was from
within that alternate path that what we have today became manifest.
Not only did Adam and Eve die that day (spiritually), but God also
changed the nature of the Earth, the nature of the plants and animals.
Things changed once God no longer had His restraining power in place
over everything. Once Adam effectively handed over the keys to Satan
and said, "Here ya go, I'll follow you. Lead on, my new master," then
all things changed, and man lost something we today don't realize we
don't have because we've never had it -- that is our spirit nature. But
all who come to Christ and are born again will receive it, and they will
be aware from that point forward of what was lost, which is what drives
them to reach out and teach and move and love and do despite all of the
silly attacks like yours.
The truth of the Bible is like a lion. You need not defend a lion. You
simply turn it loose. It will defend itself.
But to the ignorant, the unknowing, the enemy creeps into your thoughts,
introduces things that seem plausible, seem to stand up and be correct,
until you actually investigate and study, at which point that enemy's
lies all crumble.
You need to press in and seek with a truth-seeking heart the contents of
the Bible. God has not left us without information and understanding of
all things required to obtain salvation in this world. He's given us
everything we need, and He's promised to teach us all things once we get
past this world of sin and anarchy.
-----
Now, you also say above that the devil is not the serpent stated in
Genesis. Your exact quote:
"There's no devil in the Genesis story either, just a talking
serpent. You need to read more."
We have a drop-in from Ezekiel, a bit of additional information that
relates not to the king of Tyrus, but is referring to Lucifer, as is
evidenced by the fact Tyrus was never in the Garden of Eden, and was not
arrayed as is indicated. Tyrus doesn't have the abilities stated. So
what we see here a glimpse of what Lucifer looked like physically,
bodily. We also gain an understanding of why very successful musical
artists and actors and what not begin to start wearing certain clothing.
They're trying to recapture some of what their angelic bodies looked
like by their clothing. You can see this in Elvis and his cape with
patterns all over. And in people like Michael Jackson even possibly
with his plastic surgery, not just his clothes, etc.
Evil spirits are real, Daniel. They're leading you right now into
believing things that are false so you'll believe them instead of God
and be deceived until the end of your life where you, therefore, never
did come to repent and be saved. Their goal is your soul's destruction
in Hell alongside them, for every last evil spirit is literally
eternally condemned. None of them will escape justice, the pure Justice
of God.
Ezekiel 28:11-19
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+28%3A11-19&version=KJV;NIV
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious
stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond,
the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the
emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of
thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the
day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set
thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou
hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast
created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the
midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore
I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and
I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of
the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast
corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will
cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that
they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine
iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will
I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour
thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the
sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished
at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any
more.
We read further in the Bible, as it is revelation for people at various
times, whereas we here in the end-times have the full revelation up to
this point (with only the great tribulation portion not yet known as a
matter of history), that Satan was indeed the serpent.
Revelation 12:9
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Rev+12%3A9&version=KJV;NIV
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called
the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he
was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out
with him.
-----
And now, Daniel, here is a verse for you. It's a warning from the Lord
for all who would cause those who seek the truth and teach the truth to
stumble. It is a warning against your sin, and against your own soul:
Matthew 18:6-7
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+18%3A4-7&version=KJV;NIV
4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child,
the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name
receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe
in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged
about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the
sea.
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be
that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence
cometh!
Some people are so wrapped up in sin and loving sin they'll never see
the truth. But there are still those who will be saved.
The gospel message goes out for two purposes:
1) For those who will be saved, God combines the message going
forth with His own movement within each person's inner man,
such that the two combine to cause one to repent, ask Jesus
for forgiveness, and are thereby immediately saved. And,
2) For evidence against those who will not believe, so that
when they are cast into Hell it is not a matter of debate
or questioning, but such that even the one being convicted
and sentenced to an eternity in fire, they themselves will
agree and acknowledge that God is fair and just, in that
He first gave EVERY PERSON WORLD-WIDE MULTIPLE OPPORTUNITIES
TO REPENT, AND THEY REFUSED EVERY ONE OF THEM.
Your life is precious, Daniel. There is an enemy who deceives all of
us. He's not an idle enemy of no standing. He is a significant enemy
that requires us to put on a whole armor of God, a full knowledge of
truth, the full faith of the believer to be wielded against his
continuous onslaught of fiery darts which seek to pierce and destroy.
God knows who are His, and He keeps those who are His. He sends in
reinforcements, other saints of God, other voices, sometimes angels, to
intervene and pray and help the souls who will be saved.
These are the end-most times, the tick of the clock right before the
seven-year great tribulation. This is the last opportunity people have
to be saved and avoid what will soon follow.
If you want to be saved, seek the truth. Press in and pursue it, and
God Himself will bring it to you. He'll use men and women like me for
confirmation and information, but it will be Him moving on the inside
drawing you to His Son, Jesus Christ, that will be your salvation. Not
by me, not by any man, but only by God Himself.
I urge you with everything in me to stop teaching false things you don't
know about, but only think you know about, so that you will stop
condemning yourself, and stop having the punishment of those who hear
your words and think they are reasonable and begin following them heaped
upon your own head, and not just theirs as they depart in their error,
which stems from your error.
God wants to forgive people.
He wants to teach them all things.
He wants to lead us into all truth.
He has a future planned for us.
He has a present opportunity to serve Him and truth in this wanton world.
God has not left us abandoned. People must consciously turn their back
on God to keep Him away because He stands at the door and knocks. It is
a constant beckoning. A voice always saying, "Come to me, all you who
are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest for your soul."
He seeks to save everyone. Lift up your thoughts to see that, Daniel.
Lift up your eyes to Heaven and seek to learn, not to condemn or judge
God based on the enemy's lies guiding your thinking into false things
about God. Seek the truth and let God Himself correct your false
thinking so that you do know the truth, and will be saved.
--
Rick C. Hodgin