New piccadilly line trains

[M***@enderprize.com]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unve
iled-tfl-b922086.html

Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unve
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

That's what LU wants to do, with only short gaps between orders, so the
Goole factory can stay in continuous production, and perhaps even move on
to a new Jubilee line fleet. But there's only the budget for the first
phase of the Piccadilly order, not even the second phase (the extra trains
to take advantage of the higher frequencies possible with the planned, but
currently unfunded, new signalling system).

TfL doesn't have the funding for anything beyond that, and the DfT and
Treasury are not being generous to Labour mayors. If, by some amazing
chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May, the funding might be more likely to
be available.

[tim...]

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unve
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

That's what LU wants to do, with only short gaps between orders, so the
Goole factory can stay in continuous production, and perhaps even move on
to a new Jubilee line fleet. But there's only the budget for the first
phase of the Piccadilly order, not even the second phase (the extra trains
to take advantage of the higher frequencies possible with the planned, but
currently unfunded, new signalling system).
TfL doesn't have the funding for anything beyond that, and the DfT and
Treasury are not being generous to Labour mayors. If, by some amazing
chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May, the funding might be more likely to
be available.

I've just received a leaflet through my door saying that he *is* the next
mayor of London

have I been asleep for 5 years

[Arthur Figgis]

If, by some amazing chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May,

Is that plausible, short of Sadiq Khan being filmed wearing a Dominic
Cummings fan club t-shirt while committing unnatural acts with one of
the Queen's corgis on top of the Cenotaph?

I'm aware there are people who think Khan is an ISIS-supporting
communist who is being paid by Big Cycle Path, but I don't think I've
seen anything actually pro-Bailey. And even less pro that bloke with the
social media adverts who looks like a conman from an old sitcom.

And I've only just seen the nominative determinism of the UKIP candidate.

[Recliner]

Post by Arthur Figgis

If, by some amazing chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May,

Is that plausible, short of Sadiq Khan being filmed wearing a Dominic
Cummings fan club t-shirt while committing unnatural acts with one of
the Queen's corgis on top of the Cenotaph?
I'm aware there are people who think Khan is an ISIS-supporting
communist who is being paid by Big Cycle Path, but I don't think I've
seen anything actually pro-Bailey. And even less pro that bloke with the
social media adverts who looks like a conman from an old sitcom.
And I've only just seen the nominative determinism of the UKIP candidate.

Oh, I agree, Khan is the almost certain winner in May. But Johnson's
government will do all it can to undermine him in the next two months.
There might well be hints of better government funding for TfL if 'London
had a less wasteful mayor'.

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by Recliner

Post by Arthur Figgis

If, by some amazing chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May,

Is that plausible, short of Sadiq Khan being filmed wearing a Dominic
Cummings fan club t-shirt while committing unnatural acts with one of
the Queen's corgis on top of the Cenotaph?
I'm aware there are people who think Khan is an ISIS-supporting
communist who is being paid by Big Cycle Path, but I don't think I've
seen anything actually pro-Bailey. And even less pro that bloke with the
social media adverts who looks like a conman from an old sitcom.
And I've only just seen the nominative determinism of the UKIP candidate.

Oh, I agree, Khan is the almost certain winner in May. But Johnson's
government will do all it can to undermine him in the next two months.
There might well be hints of better government funding for TfL if 'London
had a less wasteful mayor'.

I just wonder if there could be a brexit referendum situation. Or the
Hull council elections ages ago, when yet another Labour win was such a
foregone conclusion that no-one could be bothered to vote, except a
handful of LibDems - who then found themselves in a "dog that has
actually caught the car" position.

The "Khan to charge you £££££ to drive across the Greater London
boundary" spin seems to have got some traction on local Facebook,
mitigated by the people sharing it not knowing[1] where Greater London
actually is.


[1] As a general concept, rather than a usenet-style "here is a map of
coal tax posts in Middlesex which proves that those little bits of Kent
north of the Thames are actually in Cambridgeshire on alternate Thursdays".

[Recliner]

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Recliner

Post by Arthur Figgis

If, by some amazing chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May,

Is that plausible, short of Sadiq Khan being filmed wearing a Dominic
Cummings fan club t-shirt while committing unnatural acts with one of
the Queen's corgis on top of the Cenotaph?
I'm aware there are people who think Khan is an ISIS-supporting
communist who is being paid by Big Cycle Path, but I don't think I've
seen anything actually pro-Bailey. And even less pro that bloke with the
social media adverts who looks like a conman from an old sitcom.
And I've only just seen the nominative determinism of the UKIP candidate.

Oh, I agree, Khan is the almost certain winner in May. But Johnson's
government will do all it can to undermine him in the next two months.
There might well be hints of better government funding for TfL if 'London
had a less wasteful mayor'.

I just wonder if there could be a brexit referendum situation. Or the
Hull council elections ages ago, when yet another Labour win was such a
foregone conclusion that no-one could be bothered to vote, except a
handful of LibDems - who then found themselves in a "dog that has
actually caught the car" position.
The "Khan to charge you £££££ to drive across the Greater London
boundary" spin seems to have got some traction on local Facebook,
mitigated by the people sharing it not knowing[1] where Greater London
actually is.

Most of the people who'd have to pay that charge don't get to vote for the
mayor, which is probably why Khan proposed it.

Post by Arthur Figgis
[1] As a general concept, rather than a usenet-style "here is a map of
coal tax posts in Middlesex which proves that those little bits of Kent
north of the Thames are actually in Cambridgeshire on alternate Thursdays".

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by Recliner
Most of the people who'd have to pay that charge don't get to vote for the
mayor, which is probably why Khan proposed it.

I was amazed at how many people didn't seem to know this. Along with how
many people I've seen claim not to know what borough they are in (FTAOD:
they were not militant historic county fans).

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Arthur Figgis

If, by some amazing chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May,

Is that plausible, short of Sadiq Khan being filmed wearing a Dominic
Cummings fan club t-shirt while committing unnatural acts with one of
the Queen's corgis on top of the Cenotaph?
I'm aware there are people who think Khan is an ISIS-supporting
communist who is being paid by Big Cycle Path, but I don't think I've
seen anything actually pro-Bailey. And even less pro that bloke with the
social media adverts who looks like a conman from an old sitcom.
And I've only just seen the nominative determinism of the UKIP candidate.

I see someone is promoting Corbyn for mayor?

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Arthur Figgis

If, by some amazing chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May,

Is that plausible, short of Sadiq Khan being filmed wearing a Dominic
Cummings fan club t-shirt while committing unnatural acts with one of
the Queen's corgis on top of the Cenotaph?
I'm aware there are people who think Khan is an ISIS-supporting
communist who is being paid by Big Cycle Path, but I don't think I've
seen anything actually pro-Bailey. And even less pro that bloke with
the social media adverts who looks like a conman from an old sitcom.
And I've only just seen the nominative determinism of the UKIP candidate.

I see someone is promoting Corbyn for mayor?

Piers rather than Jeremy.

[Recliner]

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Arthur Figgis

If, by some amazing chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May,

Is that plausible, short of Sadiq Khan being filmed wearing a Dominic
Cummings fan club t-shirt while committing unnatural acts with one of
the Queen's corgis on top of the Cenotaph?
I'm aware there are people who think Khan is an ISIS-supporting
communist who is being paid by Big Cycle Path, but I don't think I've
seen anything actually pro-Bailey. And even less pro that bloke with
the social media adverts who looks like a conman from an old sitcom.
And I've only just seen the nominative determinism of the UKIP candidate.

I see someone is promoting Corbyn for mayor?

Piers rather than Jeremy.

Yikes! Perhaps he reckons that Londoners enjoy having ageing lefty mayors?

But maybe Neil Robertson will vote for him, based on Piers' 'Covid is a
hoax' manifesto?

[Arthur Figgis]

Post by Recliner

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Arthur Figgis

If, by some amazing chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May,

Is that plausible, short of Sadiq Khan being filmed wearing a Dominic
Cummings fan club t-shirt while committing unnatural acts with one of
the Queen's corgis on top of the Cenotaph?
I'm aware there are people who think Khan is an ISIS-supporting
communist who is being paid by Big Cycle Path, but I don't think I've
seen anything actually pro-Bailey. And even less pro that bloke with
the social media adverts who looks like a conman from an old sitcom.
And I've only just seen the nominative determinism of the UKIP candidate.

I see someone is promoting Corbyn for mayor?

Piers rather than Jeremy.

Yikes! Perhaps he reckons that Londoners enjoy having ageing lefty mayors?
But maybe Neil Robertson will vote for him, based on Piers' 'Covid is a
hoax' manifesto?

I've never really understood the "other" but not explicitly comedy
candidates for Mayor, especially the ones who don't do any/much campaigning.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Arthur Figgis

If, by some amazing chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May,

Is that plausible, short of Sadiq Khan being filmed wearing a Dominic
Cummings fan club t-shirt while committing unnatural acts with one of
the Queen's corgis on top of the Cenotaph?
I'm aware there are people who think Khan is an ISIS-supporting
communist who is being paid by Big Cycle Path, but I don't think I've
seen anything actually pro-Bailey. And even less pro that bloke with
the social media adverts who looks like a conman from an old sitcom.
And I've only just seen the nominative determinism of the UKIP candidate.

I see someone is promoting Corbyn for mayor?

Piers rather than Jeremy.

Yikes!  Perhaps he reckons that Londoners enjoy having ageing lefty
mayors?
But maybe Neil Robertson will vote for him, based on Piers' 'Covid is a
hoax' manifesto?

I've never really understood the "other" but not explicitly comedy
candidates for Mayor, especially the ones who don't do any/much campaigning.

Egotism, they get their picture in the local papers and at least get a
mention on the BBC/ITV/Sky news.

[Graeme Wall]

Post by Arthur Figgis

Post by Graeme Wall

Post by Arthur Figgis

If, by some amazing chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May,

Is that plausible, short of Sadiq Khan being filmed wearing a Dominic
Cummings fan club t-shirt while committing unnatural acts with one of
the Queen's corgis on top of the Cenotaph?
I'm aware there are people who think Khan is an ISIS-supporting
communist who is being paid by Big Cycle Path, but I don't think I've
seen anything actually pro-Bailey. And even less pro that bloke with
the social media adverts who looks like a conman from an old sitcom.
And I've only just seen the nominative determinism of the UKIP candidate.

I see someone is promoting Corbyn for mayor?

Piers rather than Jeremy.

Not sure which is worse.

[tim...]

Post by Arthur Figgis

If, by some amazing chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May,

Is that plausible, short of Sadiq Khan being filmed wearing a Dominic
Cummings fan club t-shirt while committing unnatural acts with one of the
Queen's corgis on top of the Cenotaph?
I'm aware there are people who think Khan is an ISIS-supporting communist
who is being paid by Big Cycle Path, but I don't think I've seen anything
actually pro-Bailey. And even less pro that bloke with the social media
adverts who looks like a conman from an old sitcom.
And I've only just seen the nominative determinism of the UKIP candidate.

I've not seen anything about any of the candidates

admittedly I get my news from BBCN which means that I don't get the local
variant

[M***@enderprize.com]

On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 16:56:45 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

That's what LU wants to do, with only short gaps between orders, so the
Goole factory can stay in continuous production, and perhaps even move on
to a new Jubilee line fleet. But there's only the budget for the first
phase of the Piccadilly order, not even the second phase (the extra trains
to take advantage of the higher frequencies possible with the planned, but
currently unfunded, new signalling system).
TfL doesn't have the funding for anything beyond that, and the DfT and
Treasury are not being generous to Labour mayors. If, by some amazing
chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May, the funding might be more likely to
be available.

I suspect the bakerloo extension is dead in the water for another generation
too.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@enderprize.com
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 16:56:45 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

That's what LU wants to do, with only short gaps between orders, so the
Goole factory can stay in continuous production, and perhaps even move on
to a new Jubilee line fleet. But there's only the budget for the first
phase of the Piccadilly order, not even the second phase (the extra trains
to take advantage of the higher frequencies possible with the planned, but
currently unfunded, new signalling system).
TfL doesn't have the funding for anything beyond that, and the DfT and
Treasury are not being generous to Labour mayors. If, by some amazing
chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May, the funding might be more likely to
be available.

I suspect the bakerloo extension is dead in the water for another generation
too.

Are there are Tory marginal seats along the route? Or any donors to Robert Jenrick?

[M***@enderprize.com]

On Sat, 06 Mar 2021 14:33:35 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@enderprize.com

Post by Recliner
TfL doesn't have the funding for anything beyond that, and the DfT and
Treasury are not being generous to Labour mayors. If, by some amazing
chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May, the funding might be more likely to
be available.

I suspect the bakerloo extension is dead in the water for another generation
too.

Are there are Tory marginal seats along the route? Or any donors to Robert Jenrick?

Perhaps if someone told him they might hit upon a coal seam while doing
the tunnelling...

What a shame all that money is being wasted on HS2 instead of projects like
this, northern rail upgrades and other things that are desperately needed
such as a tram/metro system in Leeds for example.

[tim...]

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@enderprize.com
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 16:56:45 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

That's what LU wants to do, with only short gaps between orders, so the
Goole factory can stay in continuous production, and perhaps even move on
to a new Jubilee line fleet. But there's only the budget for the first
phase of the Piccadilly order, not even the second phase (the extra trains
to take advantage of the higher frequencies possible with the planned, but
currently unfunded, new signalling system).
TfL doesn't have the funding for anything beyond that, and the DfT and
Treasury are not being generous to Labour mayors. If, by some amazing
chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May, the funding might be more likely to
be available.

I suspect the bakerloo extension is dead in the water for another generation
too.

Are there are Tory marginal seats along the route?

seems unlikely

SE London is a sea of Red until you get to Bromley

[Recliner]

Post by tim...

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@enderprize.com
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 16:56:45 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

That's what LU wants to do, with only short gaps between orders, so the
Goole factory can stay in continuous production, and perhaps even move on
to a new Jubilee line fleet. But there's only the budget for the first
phase of the Piccadilly order, not even the second phase (the extra trains
to take advantage of the higher frequencies possible with the planned, but
currently unfunded, new signalling system).
TfL doesn't have the funding for anything beyond that, and the DfT and
Treasury are not being generous to Labour mayors. If, by some amazing
chance, we have Mayor Bailey after May, the funding might be more likely to
be available.

I suspect the bakerloo extension is dead in the water for another generation
too.

Are there are Tory marginal seats along the route?

seems unlikely
SE London is a sea of Red until you get to Bromley

And the Bromley Tories don't want it:
<https://853.london/2020/02/26/we-still-dont-want-bakerloo-line-extension-to-hayes-bromley-council-leader-insists/>

[Recliner]

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unve
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

BTW, this latest post of yours has broken the indexing in NewsTap.

[M***@enderprize.com]

On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 17:00:04 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

BTW, this latest post of yours has broken the indexing in NewsTap.

Beats me, I haven't changed anything. Perhaps newstap has pushed out an
update recently thats buggy or perhaps aioe have updated their servers and
are screwing up the headers somehow. I'd put money on newstap however.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@enderprize.com
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 17:00:04 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

BTW, this latest post of yours has broken the indexing in NewsTap.

Beats me, I haven't changed anything. Perhaps newstap has pushed out an
update recently thats buggy or perhaps aioe have updated their servers and
are screwing up the headers somehow. I'd put money on newstap however.

No, sorry, I was wrong about that latest one — it wasn't broken, just slow
to update. I think the NewsTap developer is now aware of the problem (he
wasn't previously, as he himself doesn't subscribe to any groups you post
in), but he's not released a fix yet.

[M***@enderprize.com]

On Sat, 6 Mar 2021 10:54:46 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com

Post by M***@enderprize.com
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 17:00:04 -0000 (UTC)

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv

Post by M***@enderprize.com

Post by Recliner
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

BTW, this latest post of yours has broken the indexing in NewsTap.

Beats me, I haven't changed anything. Perhaps newstap has pushed out an
update recently thats buggy or perhaps aioe have updated their servers and
are screwing up the headers somehow. I'd put money on newstap however.

No, sorry, I was wrong about that latest one — it wasn't broken, just slow
to update. I think the NewsTap developer is now aware of the problem (he
wasn't previously, as he himself doesn't subscribe to any groups you post
in), but he's not released a fix yet.

I'd be interested in knowing what the issue turns out to be in case something
I wrote isn't quite to spec.

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

Post by M***@enderprize.com
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 17:00:04 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

BTW, this latest post of yours has broken the indexing in NewsTap.

Beats me, I haven't changed anything. Perhaps newstap has pushed out an
update recently thats buggy or perhaps aioe have updated their servers and
are screwing up the headers somehow. I'd put money on newstap however.

No updates to NewsTap for over a year. The problem affects users of
different news servers, not just aioe.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[Recliner]

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@enderprize.com
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 17:00:04 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

BTW, this latest post of yours has broken the indexing in NewsTap.

Beats me, I haven't changed anything. Perhaps newstap has pushed out an
update recently thats buggy or perhaps aioe have updated their servers and
are screwing up the headers somehow. I'd put money on newstap however.

No updates to NewsTap for over a year. The problem affects users of
different news servers, not just aioe.

Neil posts through aioe, so, in a sense, we're all being exposed to that server when we download his posts. I don't know
if anyone else here posts through that server?

[tim...]

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:42:39 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@enderprize.com
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 17:00:04 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

BTW, this latest post of yours has broken the indexing in NewsTap.

Beats me, I haven't changed anything. Perhaps newstap has pushed out an
update recently thats buggy or perhaps aioe have updated their servers and
are screwing up the headers somehow. I'd put money on newstap however.

No updates to NewsTap for over a year. The problem affects users of
different news servers, not just aioe.

Neil posts through aioe, so, in a sense, we're all being exposed to that
server when we download his posts. I don't know
if anyone else here posts through that server?

I do when ES is misbehaving itself

Not done so for over a year though

[M***@entertheprizedraw.com]

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:42:39 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com

Post by M***@enderprize.com
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 17:00:04 -0000 (UTC)

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv

Post by M***@enderprize.com

Post by Recliner
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

BTW, this latest post of yours has broken the indexing in NewsTap.

Beats me, I haven't changed anything. Perhaps newstap has pushed out an
update recently thats buggy or perhaps aioe have updated their servers and
are screwing up the headers somehow. I'd put money on newstap however.

No updates to NewsTap for over a year. The problem affects users of
different news servers, not just aioe.

Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for over
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

[Recliner]

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:42:39 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com

Post by M***@enderprize.com
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 17:00:04 -0000 (UTC)

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv

Post by M***@enderprize.com

Post by Recliner
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

BTW, this latest post of yours has broken the indexing in NewsTap.

Beats me, I haven't changed anything. Perhaps newstap has pushed out an
update recently thats buggy or perhaps aioe have updated their servers and
are screwing up the headers somehow. I'd put money on newstap however.

No updates to NewsTap for over a year. The problem affects users of
different news servers, not just aioe.

Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for over
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

No, it started happening some months ago. Perhaps four? It doesn't happen
every time you post — it can go weeks without problems. So it's not that
your posts are guaranteed to break it, but they seem to be part of some
unusual combination of events that do. Those other unknown events may be
nothing to do with you.

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 12:42:39 -0000 (UTC)

Post by M***@enderprize.com

Post by M***@enderprize.com
On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 17:00:04 -0000 (UTC)

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unv

Post by M***@enderprize.com

Post by Recliner
e

Post by M***@enderprize.com
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

BTW, this latest post of yours has broken the indexing in NewsTap.

Beats me, I haven't changed anything. Perhaps newstap has pushed out an
update recently thats buggy or perhaps aioe have updated their servers and
are screwing up the headers somehow. I'd put money on newstap however.

No updates to NewsTap for over a year. The problem affects users of
different news servers, not just aioe.

Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for over
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

It first happened around 4 months ago, I think (I'm not making any
suggestions btw!); it's a problem which happens intermittently, at
unpredictable intervals (and hadn't happened before that, in my whole time
of using NewsTap).


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[M***@entertheprizedraw.com]

On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:54:51 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for over
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

It first happened around 4 months ago, I think (I'm not making any

Right, and if I'd said 6 months ago you'd have also said 6.

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:54:51 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for over
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

It first happened around 4 months ago, I think (I'm not making any

Right, and if I'd said 6 months ago you'd have also said 6.

No, it definitely wasn't that long ago.

I just checked some screenshots and I think the first time it happened was
29th Dec, so actually only just over two months ago.

The most recent time was.... just now. :(


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[Recliner]

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:54:51 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for over
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

It first happened around 4 months ago, I think (I'm not making any

Right, and if I'd said 6 months ago you'd have also said 6.

No, it definitely wasn't that long ago.
I just checked some screenshots and I think the first time it happened was
29th Dec, so actually only just over two months ago.
The most recent time was.... just now. :(

I'd have guessed that the first instance was before December, but I didn't
keep a note.

[Recliner]

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:54:51 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for over
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

It first happened around 4 months ago, I think (I'm not making any

Right, and if I'd said 6 months ago you'd have also said 6.

No, it definitely wasn't that long ago.
I just checked some screenshots and I think the first time it happened was
29th Dec, so actually only just over two months ago.
The most recent time was.... just now. :(

I've not seen it in the last few days (yet?).

Another theory (from the developer): could it be connected with iOS
versions? I think it started during IOS 13, but don't recall it first
happening with any particular iOS version.

Not sure if you use it on an iPhone or iPad. I'm currently on iPadOS 14.4.

[M***@9cz0e5y.co.uk]

On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 16:15:49 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:54:51 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for

over

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

It first happened around 4 months ago, I think (I'm not making any

Right, and if I'd said 6 months ago you'd have also said 6.

No, it definitely wasn't that long ago.
I just checked some screenshots and I think the first time it happened was
29th Dec, so actually only just over two months ago.
The most recent time was.... just now. :(

I've not seen it in the last few days (yet?).
Another theory (from the developer): could it be connected with iOS

Since I presume he's been given example posts he should be beyond the theory
stage and be actively debugging it by now.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@9cz0e5y.co.uk
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 16:15:49 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:54:51 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for

over

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

It first happened around 4 months ago, I think (I'm not making any

Right, and if I'd said 6 months ago you'd have also said 6.

No, it definitely wasn't that long ago.
I just checked some screenshots and I think the first time it happened was
29th Dec, so actually only just over two months ago.
The most recent time was.... just now. :(

I've not seen it in the last few days (yet?).
Another theory (from the developer): could it be connected with iOS

Since I presume he's been given example posts he should be beyond the theory
stage and be actively debugging it by now.

He thinks the bug is in Apple's code.

[M***@0gnkwv8su5uo3z57.tv]

On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 17:08:48 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@9cz0e5y.co.uk
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 16:15:49 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:54:51 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for

over

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

It first happened around 4 months ago, I think (I'm not making any

Right, and if I'd said 6 months ago you'd have also said 6.

No, it definitely wasn't that long ago.
I just checked some screenshots and I think the first time it happened was
29th Dec, so actually only just over two months ago.
The most recent time was.... just now. :(

I've not seen it in the last few days (yet?).
Another theory (from the developer): could it be connected with iOS

Since I presume he's been given example posts he should be beyond the theory
stage and be actively debugging it by now.

He thinks the bug is in Apple's code.

I very much doubt that tbh. More like apple have tightened some things up and
an assumption he made no longer holds true or he forgot to initialise something
and now he can't get away with it.

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

Post by M***@9cz0e5y.co.uk
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 16:15:49 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:54:51 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for

over

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

It first happened around 4 months ago, I think (I'm not making any

Right, and if I'd said 6 months ago you'd have also said 6.

No, it definitely wasn't that long ago.
I just checked some screenshots and I think the first time it happened was
29th Dec, so actually only just over two months ago.
The most recent time was.... just now. :(

I've not seen it in the last few days (yet?).
Another theory (from the developer): could it be connected with iOS

Since I presume he's been given example posts he should be beyond the theory
stage and be actively debugging it by now.

It's difficult to establish which particular post is causing it, because it
happens during a download of multiple posts. I wonder whether it only
happens when certain posts are the first in the download?


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[Recliner]

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@9cz0e5y.co.uk
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 16:15:49 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:54:51 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for

over

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

It first happened around 4 months ago, I think (I'm not making any

Right, and if I'd said 6 months ago you'd have also said 6.

No, it definitely wasn't that long ago.
I just checked some screenshots and I think the first time it happened was
29th Dec, so actually only just over two months ago.
The most recent time was.... just now. :(

I've not seen it in the last few days (yet?).
Another theory (from the developer): could it be connected with iOS

Since I presume he's been given example posts he should be beyond the theory
stage and be actively debugging it by now.

It's difficult to establish which particular post is causing it, because it
happens during a download of multiple posts. I wonder whether it only
happens when certain posts are the first in the download?

He thinks it happens with deeply nested threads. Of course, when it
happens, all threads get zapped.

[Marland]

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@9cz0e5y.co.uk
On Tue, 9 Mar 2021 16:15:49 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:54:51 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for

over

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

It first happened around 4 months ago, I think (I'm not making any

Right, and if I'd said 6 months ago you'd have also said 6.

No, it definitely wasn't that long ago.
I just checked some screenshots and I think the first time it happened was
29th Dec, so actually only just over two months ago.
The most recent time was.... just now. :(

I've not seen it in the last few days (yet?).
Another theory (from the developer): could it be connected with iOS

Since I presume he's been given example posts he should be beyond the theory
stage and be actively debugging it by now.

It's difficult to establish which particular post is causing it, because it
happens during a download of multiple posts. I wonder whether it only
happens when certain posts are the first in the download?

He thinks it happens with deeply nested threads. Of course, when it
happens, all threads get zapped.

FWIW after it happened a few weeks ago I stopped the deleting of old
articles and read articles,
the sliders are not under settings but appear on the menu when you press
the connect button.
Everything then seemed to run normal for awhile till downloading then
slowed and almost ground to a halt after a couple of weeks maybe due to a
storage memory issue.
So I set them to delete again last weekend and shortly after whoosh the
problem occurred again so once again I have set the option for no deletion
and articles are building up again.
When it slows eventually I will see start to delete things using the waste
bin menu and see if that works well enough.

Its not the only strange problem I have had with news tap ,last year when
reading or it may have been replying to one of the regulars the thing
closed down entirely . Cannot recall who it was now but I had to wait till
someone else replied and then reply on to that.
That fault hasn’t occurred for a few months now.

GH

[M***@s2ndfidp8.edu]

On 10 Mar 2021 01:06:32 GMT

Post by Marland
Its not the only strange problem I have had with news tap ,last year when
reading or it may have been replying to one of the regulars the thing
closed down entirely .

You mean it crashed? :) iOS and Android make crashes look like an ordered
shutdown unlike in desktop OSs when you get a message box or command line
error.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@s2ndfidp8.edu
On 10 Mar 2021 01:06:32 GMT

Post by Marland
Its not the only strange problem I have had with news tap ,last year when
reading or it may have been replying to one of the regulars the thing
closed down entirely .

You mean it crashed? :) iOS and Android make crashes look like an ordered
shutdown unlike in desktop OSs when you get a message box or command line
error.

I find NewsTap crashes quite often while downloading messages. As you say,
no messages, it just shuts down.  Just launch it again, and it's back to
normal, except that, very often, read messages become 'unread' again.

[M***@o4k77_467wuev.edu]

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 08:44:44 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@s2ndfidp8.edu
On 10 Mar 2021 01:06:32 GMT

Post by Marland
Its not the only strange problem I have had with news tap ,last year when
reading or it may have been replying to one of the regulars the thing
closed down entirely .

You mean it crashed? :) iOS and Android make crashes look like an ordered
shutdown unlike in desktop OSs when you get a message box or command line
error.

I find NewsTap crashes quite often while downloading messages. As you say,

Sounds like a work in progress rather than a finished product.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@o4k77_467wuev.edu
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 08:44:44 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@s2ndfidp8.edu
On 10 Mar 2021 01:06:32 GMT

Post by Marland
Its not the only strange problem I have had with news tap ,last year when
reading or it may have been replying to one of the regulars the thing
closed down entirely .

You mean it crashed? :) iOS and Android make crashes look like an ordered
shutdown unlike in desktop OSs when you get a message box or command line
error.

I find NewsTap crashes quite often while downloading messages. As you say,

Sounds like a work in progress rather than a finished product.

Like many apps, it's a part-time one-man product. I suspect that as usenet
fades away, so do the number of potential users, so he doesn't sell many
new copies (and gets no revenue from existing users). But at least the
bug(s) don't seem to be anything to do with your code.

He says:

"If a group has a single thread which reaches a certain depth, then the
whole group and all its threads are affected. NewsTap always stores the
tree structure of a whole group in a file, and so when iOS fails to read
this file because of a single deep thread, then the thread information for
the whole group is missing.

Most groups do not have such deep threads, so most of the time this iOS bug
remains invisible. The groups which I read usually do not have such deep
threads nowadays, therefore I’m not sure when this started."


Anyway, he's on the case, and has submitted a bug report to Apple, and is
also trying to creating a workaround to the iOS bug, on the assumption that
a fix won't come quickly:

"Therefore I guess this issue must be relatively new, but you might be
right and this was already a bug in iOS 13 (which was very buggy in the
first place) and is not yet fixed. Nevertheless, I’ve sent a bug report to
Apple, so hopefully Apple will fix this some day. And because Apple is lazy
in fixing bugs which are not getting public interest (list security bugs),
I’m also writing a replacement for the buggy iOS call, so I can work around
this iOS bug. Unfortunately Apple has not documented the file format
(IMHO), so this might need a short while to test everything..."

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@o4k77_467wuev.edu
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 08:44:44 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@s2ndfidp8.edu
On 10 Mar 2021 01:06:32 GMT

Post by Marland
Its not the only strange problem I have had with news tap ,last year when
reading or it may have been replying to one of the regulars the thing
closed down entirely .

You mean it crashed? :) iOS and Android make crashes look like an ordered
shutdown unlike in desktop OSs when you get a message box or command line
error.

I find NewsTap crashes quite often while downloading messages. As you say,

Sounds like a work in progress rather than a finished product.

Like many apps, it's a part-time one-man product. I suspect that as usenet
fades away, so do the number of potential users, so he doesn't sell many
new copies (and gets no revenue from existing users). But at least the
bug(s) don't seem to be anything to do with your code.
"If a group has a single thread which reaches a certain depth, then the
whole group and all its threads are affected. NewsTap always stores the
tree structure of a whole group in a file, and so when iOS fails to read
this file because of a single deep thread, then the thread information for
the whole group is missing.
Most groups do not have such deep threads, so most of the time this iOS bug
remains invisible. The groups which I read usually do not have such deep
threads nowadays, therefore I’m not sure when this started."
Anyway, he's on the case, and has submitted a bug report to Apple, and is
also trying to creating a workaround to the iOS bug, on the assumption that
"Therefore I guess this issue must be relatively new, but you might be
right and this was already a bug in iOS 13 (which was very buggy in the
first place) and is not yet fixed. Nevertheless, I’ve sent a bug report to
Apple, so hopefully Apple will fix this some day. And because Apple is lazy
in fixing bugs which are not getting public interest (list security bugs),
I’m also writing a replacement for the buggy iOS call, so I can work around
this iOS bug. Unfortunately Apple has not documented the file format
(IMHO), so this might need a short while to test everything..."

I wonder if (a bit like the infamous Covid test results being stored in
an Excel spreadsheet) a quick fix would be to write that data in two
files, and glue it back together after they've been read back in.

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@o4k77_467wuev.edu
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 08:44:44 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@s2ndfidp8.edu
On 10 Mar 2021 01:06:32 GMT

Post by Marland
Its not the only strange problem I have had with news tap ,last year when
reading or it may have been replying to one of the regulars the thing
closed down entirely .

You mean it crashed? :) iOS and Android make crashes look like an ordered
shutdown unlike in desktop OSs when you get a message box or command line
error.

I find NewsTap crashes quite often while downloading messages. As you say,

Sounds like a work in progress rather than a finished product.

Like many apps, it's a part-time one-man product. I suspect that as usenet
fades away, so do the number of potential users, so he doesn't sell many
new copies (and gets no revenue from existing users). But at least the
bug(s) don't seem to be anything to do with your code.
"If a group has a single thread which reaches a certain depth, then the
whole group and all its threads are affected. NewsTap always stores the
tree structure of a whole group in a file, and so when iOS fails to read
this file because of a single deep thread, then the thread information for
the whole group is missing.
Most groups do not have such deep threads, so most of the time this iOS bug
remains invisible. The groups which I read usually do not have such deep
threads nowadays, therefore I’m not sure when this started."
Anyway, he's on the case, and has submitted a bug report to Apple, and is
also trying to creating a workaround to the iOS bug, on the assumption that
"Therefore I guess this issue must be relatively new, but you might be
right and this was already a bug in iOS 13 (which was very buggy in the
first place) and is not yet fixed. Nevertheless, I’ve sent a bug report to
Apple, so hopefully Apple will fix this some day. And because Apple is lazy
in fixing bugs which are not getting public interest (list security bugs),
I’m also writing a replacement for the buggy iOS call, so I can work around
this iOS bug. Unfortunately Apple has not documented the file format
(IMHO), so this might need a short while to test everything..."

I wonder if (a bit like the infamous Covid test results being stored in
an Excel spreadsheet) a quick fix would be to write that data in two
files, and glue it back together after they've been read back in.

Yes, that's one possible workaround, but if going down that route, you would write n small linked files, not two
medium-sized files. It's how large binary attachments are handled in newsgroups. Anyway, he seems to have a tidier
work-around proposal — let's see if it works.

[M***@e6lwuuci18e.biz]

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 13:08:02 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Anyway, he's on the case, and has submitted a bug report to Apple, and is
also trying to creating a workaround to the iOS bug, on the assumption that
"Therefore I guess this issue must be relatively new, but you might be
right and this was already a bug in iOS 13 (which was very buggy in the
first place) and is not yet fixed. Nevertheless, I’ve sent a bug report to
Apple, so hopefully Apple will fix this some day. And because Apple is lazy
in fixing bugs which are not getting public interest (list security bugs),
I’m also writing a replacement for the buggy iOS call, so I can work around
this iOS bug. Unfortunately Apple has not documented the file format
(IMHO), so this might need a short while to test everything..."

I wonder if (a bit like the infamous Covid test results being stored in
an Excel spreadsheet) a quick fix would be to write that data in two
files, and glue it back together after they've been read back in.

Yes, that's one possible workaround, but if going down that route, you would
write n small linked files, not two
medium-sized files. It's how large binary attachments are handled in
newsgroups. Anyway, he seems to have a tidier
work-around proposal — let's see if it works.

I'm struggling to imagine how something as fundamental as writing files could
have a bug in it which hasn't been noticed before.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@e6lwuuci18e.biz
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 13:08:02 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Anyway, he's on the case, and has submitted a bug report to Apple, and is
also trying to creating a workaround to the iOS bug, on the assumption that
"Therefore I guess this issue must be relatively new, but you might be
right and this was already a bug in iOS 13 (which was very buggy in the
first place) and is not yet fixed. Nevertheless, I’ve sent a bug report to
Apple, so hopefully Apple will fix this some day. And because Apple is lazy
in fixing bugs which are not getting public interest (list security bugs),
I’m also writing a replacement for the buggy iOS call, so I can work around
this iOS bug. Unfortunately Apple has not documented the file format
(IMHO), so this might need a short while to test everything..."

I wonder if (a bit like the infamous Covid test results being stored in
an Excel spreadsheet) a quick fix would be to write that data in two
files, and glue it back together after they've been read back in.

Yes, that's one possible workaround, but if going down that route, you would
write n small linked files, not two
medium-sized files. It's how large binary attachments are handled in
newsgroups. Anyway, he seems to have a tidier
work-around proposal — let's see if it works.

I'm struggling to imagine how something as fundamental as writing files could
have a bug in it which hasn't been noticed before.

This is how he described the problem:

The problem seems to be that the system call that is used to load the
thread structure of a group from the file system is unable to do this, even
though the iOS system call to save this structure to the file system has
done so without any issue. The problem seems to happen only for extremely
deep nested threads. When saving these deeply nested structures iOS reports
no error, but when reading them, iOS reports an error.

[M***@4h78n2xyv7i7dx.co.uk]

On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 15:12:39 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@e6lwuuci18e.biz
I'm struggling to imagine how something as fundamental as writing files could
have a bug in it which hasn't been noticed before.

The problem seems to be that the system call that is used to load the
thread structure of a group from the file system is unable to do this, even
though the iOS system call to save this structure to the file system has
done so without any issue. The problem seems to happen only for extremely
deep nested threads. When saving these deeply nested structures iOS reports
no error, but when reading them, iOS reports an error.

Oh well. Must be using some built in iOS data serialisation API. Should have
just written a normal file using json or some similar standard format but
20/20 hindsight etc.

[Recliner]

Post by M***@4h78n2xyv7i7dx.co.uk
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 15:12:39 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@e6lwuuci18e.biz
I'm struggling to imagine how something as fundamental as writing files could
have a bug in it which hasn't been noticed before.

The problem seems to be that the system call that is used to load the
thread structure of a group from the file system is unable to do this, even
though the iOS system call to save this structure to the file system has
done so without any issue. The problem seems to happen only for extremely
deep nested threads. When saving these deeply nested structures iOS reports
no error, but when reading them, iOS reports an error.

Oh well. Must be using some built in iOS data serialisation API. Should have
just written a normal file using json or some similar standard format but
20/20 hindsight etc.

Apparently he's creating his own alternative to the iOS system call he was
using, on the assumption that Apple will be slow to fix it.

[Roland Perry]

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@e6lwuuci18e.biz
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 13:08:02 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Anyway, he's on the case, and has submitted a bug report to Apple, and is
also trying to creating a workaround to the iOS bug, on the assumption that
"Therefore I guess this issue must be relatively new, but you might be
right and this was already a bug in iOS 13 (which was very buggy in the
first place) and is not yet fixed. Nevertheless, I’ve sent a bug report to
Apple, so hopefully Apple will fix this some day. And because Apple is lazy
in fixing bugs which are not getting public interest (list security bugs),
I’m also writing a replacement for the buggy iOS call, so I can work around
this iOS bug. Unfortunately Apple has not documented the file format
(IMHO), so this might need a short while to test everything..."

I wonder if (a bit like the infamous Covid test results being stored in
an Excel spreadsheet) a quick fix would be to write that data in two
files, and glue it back together after they've been read back in.

Yes, that's one possible workaround, but if going down that route, you would
write n small linked files, not two
medium-sized files. It's how large binary attachments are handled in
newsgroups. Anyway, he seems to have a tidier
work-around proposal — let's see if it works.

I'm struggling to imagine how something as fundamental as writing files could
have a bug in it which hasn't been noticed before.

The problem seems to be that the system call that is used to load the
thread structure of a group from the file system is unable to do this, even
though the iOS system call to save this structure to the file system has
done so without any issue. The problem seems to happen only for extremely
deep nested threads. When saving these deeply nested structures iOS reports
no error, but when reading them, iOS reports an error.

Is it a generic file read/write system call, or a very specialised one
that's been provided for the purpose of managing threaded data?

[Recliner]

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@e6lwuuci18e.biz
On Wed, 10 Mar 2021 13:08:02 +0000

Post by Recliner

Post by Roland Perry

Post by Recliner
Anyway, he's on the case, and has submitted a bug report to Apple, and is
also trying to creating a workaround to the iOS bug, on the assumption that
"Therefore I guess this issue must be relatively new, but you might be
right and this was already a bug in iOS 13 (which was very buggy in the
first place) and is not yet fixed. Nevertheless, I’ve sent a bug report to
Apple, so hopefully Apple will fix this some day. And because Apple is lazy
in fixing bugs which are not getting public interest (list security bugs),
I’m also writing a replacement for the buggy iOS call, so I can work around
this iOS bug. Unfortunately Apple has not documented the file format
(IMHO), so this might need a short while to test everything..."

I wonder if (a bit like the infamous Covid test results being stored in
an Excel spreadsheet) a quick fix would be to write that data in two
files, and glue it back together after they've been read back in.

Yes, that's one possible workaround, but if going down that route, you would
write n small linked files, not two
medium-sized files. It's how large binary attachments are handled in
newsgroups. Anyway, he seems to have a tidier
work-around proposal — let's see if it works.

I'm struggling to imagine how something as fundamental as writing files could
have a bug in it which hasn't been noticed before.

The problem seems to be that the system call that is used to load the
thread structure of a group from the file system is unable to do this, even
though the iOS system call to save this structure to the file system has
done so without any issue. The problem seems to happen only for extremely
deep nested threads. When saving these deeply nested structures iOS reports
no error, but when reading them, iOS reports an error.

Is it a generic file read/write system call, or a very specialised one
that's been provided for the purpose of managing threaded data?

Pass — I'm way out of my technical depth on this. But it sounds more like
the latter.

I get the impression that it's one of those high level Apple things that's
really handy and easy to use when it works, and a complete pain to get
round when it doesn't.

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

Post by Recliner

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
On Mon, 8 Mar 2021 20:54:51 -0000 (UTC)

Post by Anna Noyd-Dryver

Post by M***@entertheprizedraw.com
Well if its only started happening and newstap hasn't been updated for over
a year and my code hasn't been updated in 4 months then the problem lies
elsewhere.

It first happened around 4 months ago, I think (I'm not making any

Right, and if I'd said 6 months ago you'd have also said 6.

No, it definitely wasn't that long ago.
I just checked some screenshots and I think the first time it happened was
29th Dec, so actually only just over two months ago.
The most recent time was.... just now. :(

I've not seen it in the last few days (yet?).
Another theory (from the developer): could it be connected with iOS
versions? I think it started during IOS 13, but don't recall it first
happening with any particular iOS version.
Not sure if you use it on an iPhone or iPad. I'm currently on iPadOS 14.4.

iPhone, currently on 14.4. It occurred both before and after iOS updates.
Though never before I upgraded from iPhone 8 to 12, though I don't think
that's related.


Anna Noyd-Dryver

[Anna Noyd-Dryver]

Post by Recliner

Post by M***@enderprize.com
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/design-new-piccadilly-line-trains-unve
iled-tfl-b922086.html
Lets hope sense prevails and once these have had a good shakedown on the
picc they order them for the bakerloo, central and W&C instead of wasting
time and money on yet another round of tenders to do the exact same job.

BTW, this latest post of yours has broken the indexing in NewsTap.

Though curiously only in uk.railway, not in u.t.l (for me, at least).


Anna Noyd-Dryver