School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they may cause offence

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence
https://www.irishpost.com/news/school-bans-christmas-carols-160757
A SCHOOL has come under fire after students were told they would not
be singing any carols that include the word "Jesus" this Christmas.
Pupils at Robious Middle School in THE us have been told they won't be
singing any songs representing Jesus due to the "sacred nature" of
Christ.
That's according to a series of emails written by the Virginia
school's chorus teacher to concerned parent David Allen, which was
subsequently passed on to NBC12.
"We had a few students who weren't comfortable singing a piece I have
done many times in the past, but it is of a sacred nature and does
mention Jesus," one of the emails explains.
After meeting with school administrators, the school opted against
singing any carols of a directly sacred nature in an attempt at being
more sensitive to the school's diverse population.
Question are people required to sing or attend these concerts?
Is a belief system being pushed here?

sure

b***@m.nu

2018-12-03 01:45:14 UTC

Well lets see, along with christ,as carols containing jesus... all
decorations related to christmas including but not limited to any
decorative lights, trees, ornamentation, wreaths, bows and ribbons
used as christmas decorations, anything that contains the image of
santa claus or angels or elves or trees or anything christmas related,
christmas cards, and gifts should be banned from schools, and all
other government owned land or buildings and vehicles should be
banned. No one likes to see a nazi symbol because of the Holocaust and
the bad shit that brings up.... well christmas is a symbol for twice
as much death , no to mention all the torture and rape that goes along
with it and that even includes the Holocaust....

Mattb

2018-12-03 01:55:06 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-03 02:40:17 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

I don't think not celebrating Christmas is a promotion of atheism.

super70s

2018-12-03 15:15:54 UTC

Post by Mattb
So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

I don't think not celebrating Christmas is a promotion of atheism.

"You're either with us or against us," it's like when politicians want
to promote a new war or a new regulation that stomps on individual
liberties.

Mattb

2018-12-03 17:38:43 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

I don't think not celebrating Christmas is a promotion of atheism.

While I don't want the religion taught in schools Christmas carols
have never been a problem. Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths because it might offend
a immigrant?

If atheist are such snowflakes that the song Silent Night offends then
that is just to bad. Not having the song offends people also. What
about Marry Christmas darling? Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms for Muslims to
pray? What they should do is have a school vote.

Kevrob

2018-12-03 18:03:44 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

I don't think not celebrating Christmas is a promotion of atheism.

While I don't want the religion taught in schools Christmas carols
have never been a problem.

I can remember religious Christians bitching that secular songs
were being chosen for holiday pagents in the government schools
in or near New York City as early as the 1960s. Teacher-led prayer
and the reading of the bible aloud to the entire home room class
at the start of the day had been recently struck down by the courts.

NYC had, and has, a significant number of people who are other than
Christian, and the schools were trying to not exclude anybody.

Post by Mattb
Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths because it might offend
a immigrant?

I vaguely remember that. You could search it, if you wnated to.

Post by Mattb
If atheist are such snowflakes that the song Silent Night offends then
that is just to bad. Not having the song offends people also.

Not having "Cthulhu, we beseech thee, devour us first" offends me.

Post by Mattb
What about Marry Christmas darling?

Merry, I believe.

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms
for Muslims to pray?

Any reigion is supposed to be given "reasonable accomodation."
I can think of where this would be reasonable, and where it wouldn't be.

Post by Mattb
What they should do is have a school vote.

Hell, no. Voting by the students? Having the majority of students
voting away the rights of the minority? Or have the school board do
it, or have a referendum?

Constitutional rights are, by definition, not subject to a voter.

I'd suggest voluntary student organizations, with non-tax
funding, organizing the concerts. I think that might pass
constitutional muster. Each group might want their own, if
they didn't cooperate: the Christian group, the Jewish group,
the Pastafarians, etc.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Mattb

2018-12-03 19:02:39 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

I don't think not celebrating Christmas is a promotion of atheism.

While I don't want the religion taught in schools Christmas carols
have never been a problem.

Bitching is different than banning. Teacher-led prayer and the
changed Pledge of allegiance should have always been banned.

Never paid attention when my kids were in school but believe the
Christmas concerts were mostly a mix of secular and religious. I don't
have a problem with that.

Post by Kevrob
NYC had, and has, a significant number of people who are other than
Christian, and the schools were trying to not exclude anybody.

Good luck with that I find this new policy offensive as I am sure many
do but for different reasons. Why do the minority get to tell
everyone what to do anymore.

Post by Mattb
Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths because it might offend
a immigrant?

I vaguely remember that. You could search it, if you wnated to.

No I like you remember it. The to me at the time I thought if the
immigrants don't like the American flag get the fuck out go back where
you came from.

Post by Mattb
If atheist are such snowflakes that the song Silent Night offends then
that is just to bad. Not having the song offends people also.

Not having "Cthulhu, we beseech thee, devour us first" offends me.

Never heard that one. You did get me to look for that song, you bad.
I believe we did read that in HS.

Post by Mattb
What about Marry Christmas darling?

Merry, I believe.

You don't want to get the Carpenter fans upset.

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms
for Muslims to pray?

Any reigion is supposed to be given "reasonable accomodation."
I can think of where this would be reasonable, and where it wouldn't be.

Would you support that for Christians? Given a special room for
prayer?

Post by Mattb
What they should do is have a school vote.

Hell, no. Voting by the students? Having the majority of students
voting away the rights of the minority? Or have the school board do
it, or have a referendum?

Then you believe the minority should be able to control the majority?

Post by Kevrob
Constitutional rights are, by definition, not subject to a voter.

Well except for issues on guns?

Post by Kevrob
I'd suggest voluntary student organizations, with non-tax
funding, organizing the concerts. I think that might pass
constitutional muster. Each group might want their own, if
they didn't cooperate: the Christian group, the Jewish group,
the Pastafarians, etc.

That might work get parents and businesses to sponsor the event and if
necessary rent the concert area. The no taxes involved. In the more
affluent areas that would work.

Post by Kevrob
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Kevrob

2018-12-03 20:53:03 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

I don't think not celebrating Christmas is a promotion of atheism.

While I don't want the religion taught in schools Christmas carols
have never been a problem.

Bitching is different than banning.

The Christians were bitching about what they saw as a ban.

Post by Mattb
Teacher-led prayer and the
changed Pledge of allegiance should have always been banned.

True.

I'm not really a "pledge to the flag" fan. I'd rather we
teach the kids about the Constitution, and the rights it is
meant to protect, and to be loyal to those, rather than to
the symbol that is supposed to stand for that.

Post by Mattb
Never paid attention when my kids were in school but believe the
Christmas concerts were mostly a mix of secular and religious. I don't
have a problem with that.

I attended parochail school, and never put any kids through government
school, so I have no

Post by Kevrob
NYC had, and has, a significant number of people who are other than
Christian, and the schools were trying to not exclude anybody.

Good luck with that I find this new policy offensive as I am sure many
do but for different reasons. Why do the minority get to tell
everyone what to do anymore.

Post by Mattb
Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths because it might offend
a immigrant?

I vaguely remember that. You could search it, if you wnated to.

No I like you remember it. The to me at the time I thought if the
immigrants don't like the American flag get the fuck out go back where
you came from.

Post by Mattb
If atheist are such snowflakes that the song Silent Night offends then
that is just to bad. Not having the song offends people also.

Not having "Cthulhu, we beseech thee, devour us first" offends me.

Never heard that one. You did get me to look for that song, you bad.
I believe we did read that in HS.

Post by Mattb
What about Marry Christmas darling?

Merry, I believe.

You don't want to get the Carpenter fans upset.
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms
for Muslims to pray?

Any religion is supposed to be given "reasonable accomodation."
I can think of where this would be reasonable, and where it wouldn't be.

Would you support that for Christians? Given a special room for
prayer?

AFAICR, Christians are not required to pray in groups daily
or even in solitude. Muslims are required to pray aloud,
and prostrate (salah) 5 times daily. Some of those times
fall during the school day.

We prayed a lot in Catholic school, but my Catholic friends
who went to public school prayed silently, if they prayed
at all during the day. That can be done anywhere.

Post by Mattb
What they should do is have a school vote.

Hell, no. Voting by the students? Having the majority of students
voting away the rights of the minority? Or have the school board do
it, or have a referendum?

Then you believe the minority should be able to control the majority?

I believe individuals should do as they please, an it harms none.
These kinds of questions are one reason I do not support schooling
organized and funded by the state.

Post by Kevrob
Constitutional rights are, by definition, not subject to a voter.

Well except for issues on guns?

No, I'm a 2nd Amendment supporter. Libertarian here,
not a so-called "progressive." Don't argue with the
atheist in your head, please.

That might work get parents and businesses to sponsor the event and if
necessary rent the concert area. The no taxes involved. In the more
affluent areas that would work.

It might work in poorer areas, too, if sponsorship can be found.

One gig our school choir really enjoyed, circa 1968, was
singing in the town's nicest department store. Modern equivalent
would be caroling in a mall or "town center," entertaining all
the shoppers. The store was using us to attact marks, of course.
People loved us. Members got compliments from fellow villagers,
some we didn't know knew us - they knew our folks - for weeks after.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Mattb

2018-12-03 21:11:19 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

I don't think not celebrating Christmas is a promotion of atheism.

While I don't want the religion taught in schools Christmas carols
have never been a problem.

Bitching is different than banning.

The Christians were bitching about what they saw as a ban.

It was a ban but you are correct. I just like Christmas concerts and
to believe I can't go because some minority is offended when all they
need do is not go.
.

Post by Mattb
Teacher-led prayer and the
changed Pledge of allegiance should have always been banned.

True.
I'm not really a "pledge to the flag" fan. I'd rather we
teach the kids about the Constitution, and the rights it is
meant to protect, and to be loyal to those, rather than to
the symbol that is supposed to stand for that.

They don't teach the Constitution much in out modern schools or they
focus on only a few parts. If Berkeley is a example they don't teach
freedom of speech goes for all not just the select few.

Post by Mattb
Never paid attention when my kids were in school but believe the
Christmas concerts were mostly a mix of secular and religious. I don't
have a problem with that.

I attended parochail school, and never put any kids through government
school, so I have no

Post by Kevrob
NYC had, and has, a significant number of people who are other than
Christian, and the schools were trying to not exclude anybody.

Good luck with that I find this new policy offensive as I am sure many
do but for different reasons. Why do the minority get to tell
everyone what to do anymore.

Post by Mattb
Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths because it might offend
a immigrant?

I vaguely remember that. You could search it, if you wnated to.

No I like you remember it. The to me at the time I thought if the
immigrants don't like the American flag get the fuck out go back where
you came from.

Post by Mattb
If atheist are such snowflakes that the song Silent Night offends then
that is just to bad. Not having the song offends people also.

Not having "Cthulhu, we beseech thee, devour us first" offends me.

Never heard that one. You did get me to look for that song, you bad.
I believe we did read that in HS.

Post by Mattb
What about Marry Christmas darling?

Merry, I believe.

You don't want to get the Carpenter fans upset.
http://youtu.be/YR1ujXx2p-I

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms
for Muslims to pray?

Any religion is supposed to be given "reasonable accomodation."
I can think of where this would be reasonable, and where it wouldn't be.

Would you support that for Christians? Given a special room for
prayer?

Then they should do so outside off school grounds. Don't forget Islam
is also a pink unicorn.

Post by Kevrob
We prayed a lot in Catholic school, but my Catholic friends
who went to public school prayed silently, if they prayed
at all during the day. That can be done anywhere.

Most the people I know that are Catholic are the go one time a year
type of Catholic. Know the local priest but that is because we do
some work together, he is moderate type Catholic IMO.

Post by Mattb
What they should do is have a school vote.

Hell, no. Voting by the students? Having the majority of students
voting away the rights of the minority? Or have the school board do
it, or have a referendum?

Then you believe the minority should be able to control the majority?

I believe individuals should do as they please, an it harms none.

You a Wiccan? ;-))

Post by Kevrob
These kinds of questions are one reason I do not support schooling
organized and funded by the state.

I've never considered the concerts to be promoting a religion as such
but I do not look for reasons to be offence. Seems so many liberals
look to be offended.

Post by Kevrob
Constitutional rights are, by definition, not subject to a voter.

Well except for issues on guns?

No, I'm a 2nd Amendment supporter. Libertarian here,
not a so-called "progressive." Don't argue with the
atheist in your head, please.

Rudy claims to be a libertarian...... :-))) Yet I don't believe he
is. I'm not a atheist. I'm more a independent as my views go wildly
back and forth on many issues such as social programs and I am 100%
against the debt. I did not support Trumps BS tax cuts even though I
did profit by them.

That might work get parents and businesses to sponsor the event and if
necessary rent the concert area. The no taxes involved. In the more
affluent areas that would work.

It might work in poorer areas, too, if sponsorship can be found.

True but less likely. Then again I can see secular liberals going
after the sponsors because they are offended little snowflakes

Post by Kevrob
One gig our school choir really enjoyed, circa 1968, was
singing in the town's nicest department store. Modern equivalent
would be caroling in a mall or "town center," entertaining all
the shoppers. The store was using us to attact marks, of course.
People loved us. Members got compliments from fellow villagers,
some we didn't know knew us - they knew our folks - for weeks after.

That might work.

Post by Kevrob
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-03 19:08:36 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

I don't think not celebrating Christmas is a promotion of atheism.

Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule would likely violate
Freedom of Speech.

Post by Mattb
If atheist are such snowflakes that the song Silent Night offends then
that is just to bad. Not having the song offends people also. What
about Marry Christmas darling?

The courts would probably view that song as not promoting Christianity
(no Jesus in that song).

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms for Muslims to
pray? What they should do is have a school vote.

Schools are permitted to accommodate religious practices so long as they
don't promote them. Thus, so-called prayer rooms are made available to
anyone for any purpose. Another example of a permissible accomodation
is fish on Friday.

Mattb

2018-12-03 20:53:47 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

I don't think not celebrating Christmas is a promotion of atheism.

Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule would likely violate
Freedom of Speech.

You would think so. The if the immigrants don't like the American
Flag they are free to get the fuck out of the USA.

Post by Mattb
If atheist are such snowflakes that the song Silent Night offends then
that is just to bad. Not having the song offends people also. What
about Marry Christmas darling?

The courts would probably view that song as not promoting Christianity
(no Jesus in that song).

True. Never thought of it how many Christmas songs use the word
"Jesus".

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms for Muslims to
pray? What they should do is have a school vote.

I like Steak on Friday.

Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried to use the room at
the same time.

Kevrob

2018-12-03 21:15:42 UTC

Post by Mattb
I like Steak on Friday.

So do I. When I was a kid, and the "no land animal
meat on Friday" rule was in effect, nothng was better
than broiled swordfish steak. I still love that.

Having grown up on an island, with plentiful supplies
of fresh-caught fish, not to mention shellfish, being
"made to eat fish" was never a real penance or me.
Pan-fried breaded flounder! Sauteed scallops! Baked
clams! Chowder! Baked bluefish! Steamed cod!
Cheese pizza with anchovies, or white clam pizza!

I may have to stop by the store for some salmon on my way home.

Post by Mattb
Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried to use the room at
the same time.

Orthodox Jews pray at least three times a day.

The Jews face Jerusalem, the Muslims Mecca. Not too much
difference from the US. Having a sign-up sheet for times
might be sensible.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Mattb

2018-12-03 21:42:59 UTC

Post by Mattb
I like Steak on Friday.

So do I. When I was a kid, and the "no land animal
meat on Friday" rule was in effect, nothng was better
than broiled swordfish steak. I still love that.

That is the best.

Post by Kevrob
Having grown up on an island, with plentiful supplies
of fresh-caught fish, not to mention shellfish, being
"made to eat fish" was never a real penance or me.
Pan-fried breaded flounder! Sauteed scallops! Baked
clams! Chowder! Baked bluefish! Steamed cod!
Cheese pizza with anchovies, or white clam pizza!
I may have to stop by the store for some salmon on my way home.

You are making me want fish stop it.

Post by Mattb
Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried to use the room at
the same time.

Orthodox Jews pray at least three times a day.
The Jews face Jerusalem, the Muslims Mecca. Not too much
difference from the US. Having a sign-up sheet for times
might be sensible. \

True. The University has a meditation chapel for such uses. It was
open to all.

Post by Kevrob
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-03 21:26:02 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

I don't think not celebrating Christmas is a promotion of atheism.

Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule would likely violate
Freedom of Speech.

You would think so. The if the immigrants don't like the American
Flag they are free to get the fuck out of the USA.

Wearing the Mexican flag is equally protected by Freedom of Speech. If
those born in the USA don't like the Mexican flag, they are free to fuck
off.

Post by Mattb
If atheist are such snowflakes that the song Silent Night offends then
that is just to bad. Not having the song offends people also. What
about Marry Christmas darling?

The courts would probably view that song as not promoting Christianity
(no Jesus in that song).

True. Never thought of it how many Christmas songs use the word
"Jesus".

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms for Muslims to
pray? What they should do is have a school vote.

I like Steak on Friday.
Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried to use the room at
the same time.

I don't see why.

Mattb

2018-12-03 21:39:41 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

I don't think not celebrating Christmas is a promotion of atheism.

Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule would likely violate
Freedom of Speech.

You would think so. The if the immigrants don't like the American
Flag they are free to get the fuck out of the USA.

Wearing the Mexican flag is equally protected by Freedom of Speech. If
those born in the USA don't like the Mexican flag, they are free to fuck
off.

Yes it is and wasn't the problem. I don't care if they wear the flag
on other nations many do it that were born here. The problem is when
Americans must change how they are to not offend a immigrant unless it
is a racist thing as that is always wrong. Any who come here and
believe we must change our cultural ways for them can get out.

Post by Mattb
If atheist are such snowflakes that the song Silent Night offends then
that is just to bad. Not having the song offends people also. What
about Marry Christmas darling?

The courts would probably view that song as not promoting Christianity
(no Jesus in that song).

True. Never thought of it how many Christmas songs use the word
"Jesus".

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms for Muslims to
pray? What they should do is have a school vote.

I like Steak on Friday.
Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried to use the room at
the same time.

I don't see why.

You've never been to Israel. They have riots in one or the other
prays in the wrong area. They are both strange people well their
fundies..

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-03 21:43:19 UTC

{snip}

Post by Mattb
Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths because it might offend
a immigrant?

Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule would likely violate
Freedom of Speech.

You would think so. The if the immigrants don't like the American
Flag they are free to get the fuck out of the USA.

Wearing the Mexican flag is equally protected by Freedom of Speech. If
those born in the USA don't like the Mexican flag, they are free to fuck
off.

I don't know anyone who believes that and I live in a city that is 75%
Latino.

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms for Muslims to
pray? What they should do is have a school vote.

I like Steak on Friday.
Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried to use the room at
the same time.

I don't see why.

You've never been to Israel. They have riots in one or the other
prays in the wrong area. They are both strange people well their
fundies..

That's because they claim the same place as unusually holy. No one is
going to claim that classroom is unusually holy.

Mattb

2018-12-03 21:53:19 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Mattb
Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths because it might offend
a immigrant?

Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule would likely violate
Freedom of Speech.

You would think so. The if the immigrants don't like the American
Flag they are free to get the fuck out of the USA.

Wearing the Mexican flag is equally protected by Freedom of Speech. If
those born in the USA don't like the Mexican flag, they are free to fuck
off.

I don't know anyone who believes that and I live in a city that is 75%
Latino.

Most Hispanics I know don't believe that way.

https://www.aalrr.com/EdLawConnectBlog/federal-appellate-court-upholds-california-high-schools-ban-on-american-flag-shirts-on-cinco-de-mayo

The circumstances leading to the litigation originated a year before
the May 5, 2010 Cinco de Mayo celebration. The school had a history
of violence among students, some gang-related and some drawn along
racial lines. On Cinco de Mayo in 2009 there was an altercation on
campus between a group of predominantly Caucasian students and a group
of Mexican students. (All judges used the term Mexican to include
U.S.-born students of Mexican ancestry and students born in Mexico.)
The groups exchanged profanities and threats, and a group of students
began repeatedly chanting USA after hanging a makeshift American
flag on a tree on campus; in response, a student in a group displaying
the Mexican flag shouted f*** them white boys, f*** them white
boys. An assistant principal intervened. The same day an American
flag-wearing student was approached by a student who shoved a Mexican
flag at him and said something in Spanish expressing anger at [his]
clothing.

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms for Muslims to
pray? What they should do is have a school vote.

I like Steak on Friday.
Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried to use the room at
the same time.

I don't see why.

You've never been to Israel. They have riots in one or the other
prays in the wrong area. They are both strange people well their
fundies..

That's because they claim the same place as unusually holy. No one is
going to claim that classroom is unusually holy.

Yes but the hate is still there for some reason. I'd say the place
belongs to who had it first.

https://goo.gl/EQhvNt

Personally I don't care if someone worships a rock as long as they
don't want to force me to also worship a rock.

Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

Kevrob

2018-12-03 22:56:30 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Wearing the Mexican flag is equally protected by Freedom of Speech. If
those born in the USA don't like the Mexican flag, they are free to fuck
off.

I don't know anyone who believes that and I live in a city that is 75%
Latino.

Most Hispanics I know don't believe that way.
https://www.aalrr.com/EdLawConnectBlog/federal-appellate-court-upholds-california-high-schools-ban-on-american-flag-shirts-on-cinco-de-mayo
The circumstances leading to the litigation originated a year before
the May 5, 2010 Cinco de Mayo celebration. The school had a “history
of violence among students, some gang-related and some drawn along
racial lines.” On Cinco de Mayo in 2009 there was “an altercation on
campus between a group of predominantly Caucasian students and a group
of Mexican students.” (All judges used the term “Mexican” to include
U.S.-born students of Mexican ancestry and students born in Mexico.)
The groups exchanged profanities and threats, and a group of students
began repeatedly chanting “USA” after hanging a makeshift American
flag on a tree on campus; in response, a student in a group displaying
the Mexican flag “shouted “f*** them white boys, f*** them white
boys.” An assistant principal intervened. The same day an American
flag-wearing student was approached by a student who “shoved a Mexican
flag at him and said something in Spanish expressing anger at [his]
clothing.”

As a USAian-type American, I consider the Mexican victory
over the French at Puebla a good thing. It was in line with
the Monroe Doctrine, which we were not able to enforce as
well as we might because of that unpleasantness between
the several States, aka "The Civil War."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Puebla

I'd want to wear a shirt with crossed US and Mexican flags,
supporting the independence of both countries, myself.

Post by Mattb
You've never been to Israel. They have riots in one or the other
prays in the wrong area. They are both strange people well their
fundies..

That's because they claim the same place as unusually holy. No one is
going to claim that classroom is unusually holy.

Yes but the hate is still there for some reason. I'd say the place
belongs to who had it first.
https://goo.gl/EQhvNt
Personally I don't care if someone worships a rock as long as they
don't want to force me to also worship a rock.
Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

If it was a mandatory school assembly, that might be a problem.
Even then, those who wanted to skip it could be offered a study
hall period, or allowed to visit the library. Some teacher or aid
might have to supervise, but maybe one wouldn't want to hear the
assembly, either.

Voluntary attendance doesn'tget around the "who is paying for it?"
issue, though.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Mattb

2018-12-03 23:34:28 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Wearing the Mexican flag is equally protected by Freedom of Speech. If
those born in the USA don't like the Mexican flag, they are free to fuck
off.

I don't know anyone who believes that and I live in a city that is 75%
Latino.

Most Hispanics I know don't believe that way.
https://www.aalrr.com/EdLawConnectBlog/federal-appellate-court-upholds-california-high-schools-ban-on-american-flag-shirts-on-cinco-de-mayo
The circumstances leading to the litigation originated a year before
the May 5, 2010 Cinco de Mayo celebration. The school had a history
of violence among students, some gang-related and some drawn along
racial lines. On Cinco de Mayo in 2009 there was an altercation on
campus between a group of predominantly Caucasian students and a group
of Mexican students. (All judges used the term Mexican to include
U.S.-born students of Mexican ancestry and students born in Mexico.)
The groups exchanged profanities and threats, and a group of students
began repeatedly chanting USA after hanging a makeshift American
flag on a tree on campus; in response, a student in a group displaying
the Mexican flag shouted f*** them white boys, f*** them white
boys. An assistant principal intervened. The same day an American
flag-wearing student was approached by a student who shoved a Mexican
flag at him and said something in Spanish expressing anger at [his]
clothing.

As a USAian-type American, I consider the Mexican victory
over the French at Puebla a good thing. It was in line with
the Monroe Doctrine, which we were not able to enforce as
well as we might because of that unpleasantness between
the several States, aka "The Civil War."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Puebla
I'd want to wear a shirt with crossed US and Mexican flags,
supporting the independence of both countries, myself.

That would be a idea. Though bet the snowflakes would bitch about
that as well.

Post by Mattb
You've never been to Israel. They have riots in one or the other
prays in the wrong area. They are both strange people well their
fundies..

That's because they claim the same place as unusually holy. No one is
going to claim that classroom is unusually holy.

Yes but the hate is still there for some reason. I'd say the place
belongs to who had it first.
https://goo.gl/EQhvNt
Personally I don't care if someone worships a rock as long as they
don't want to force me to also worship a rock.
Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

Worth a try.

Post by Kevrob
Voluntary attendance doesn'tget around the "who is paying for it?"
issue, though.

I wouldn't mind my taxes going to it. Also wonder what it would cost
to rent that school space for a few nights.

Post by Kevrob
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-04 01:52:51 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Mattb
Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths because it might offend
a immigrant?

Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule would likely violate
Freedom of Speech.

You would think so. The if the immigrants don't like the American
Flag they are free to get the fuck out of the USA.

Wearing the Mexican flag is equally protected by Freedom of Speech. If
those born in the USA don't like the Mexican flag, they are free to fuck
off.

I don't know anyone who believes that and I live in a city that is 75%
Latino.

Most Hispanics I know don't believe that way.
https://www.aalrr.com/EdLawConnectBlog/federal-appellate-court-upholds-california-high-schools-ban-on-american-flag-shirts-on-cinco-de-mayo
The circumstances leading to the litigation originated a year before
the May 5, 2010 Cinco de Mayo celebration. The school had a “history
of violence among students, some gang-related and some drawn along
racial lines.” On Cinco de Mayo in 2009 there was “an altercation on
campus between a group of predominantly Caucasian students and a group
of Mexican students.” (All judges used the term “Mexican” to include
U.S.-born students of Mexican ancestry and students born in Mexico.)
The groups exchanged profanities and threats, and a group of students
began repeatedly chanting “USA” after hanging a makeshift American
flag on a tree on campus; in response, a student in a group displaying
the Mexican flag “shouted “f*** them white boys, f*** them white
boys.” An assistant principal intervened. The same day an American
flag-wearing student was approached by a student who “shoved a Mexican
flag at him and said something in Spanish expressing anger at [his]
clothing.”

I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms for Muslims to
pray? What they should do is have a school vote.

I like Steak on Friday.
Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried to use the room at
the same time.

I don't see why.

You've never been to Israel. They have riots in one or the other
prays in the wrong area. They are both strange people well their
fundies..

That's because they claim the same place as unusually holy. No one is
going to claim that classroom is unusually holy.

Yes but the hate is still there for some reason. I'd say the place
belongs to who had it first.
https://goo.gl/EQhvNt
Personally I don't care if someone worships a rock as long as they
don't want to force me to also worship a rock.
Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

Impermissible endorsement does not hinge on either requiring attendance
or participation.

Mattb

2018-12-04 08:51:26 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Mattb
Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths because it might offend
a immigrant?

Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule would likely violate
Freedom of Speech.

You would think so. The if the immigrants don't like the American
Flag they are free to get the fuck out of the USA.

Wearing the Mexican flag is equally protected by Freedom of Speech. If
those born in the USA don't like the Mexican flag, they are free to fuck
off.

I don't know anyone who believes that and I live in a city that is 75%
Latino.

Most Hispanics I know don't believe that way.
https://www.aalrr.com/EdLawConnectBlog/federal-appellate-court-upholds-california-high-schools-ban-on-american-flag-shirts-on-cinco-de-mayo
The circumstances leading to the litigation originated a year before
the May 5, 2010 Cinco de Mayo celebration. The school had a history
of violence among students, some gang-related and some drawn along
racial lines. On Cinco de Mayo in 2009 there was an altercation on
campus between a group of predominantly Caucasian students and a group
of Mexican students. (All judges used the term Mexican to include
U.S.-born students of Mexican ancestry and students born in Mexico.)
The groups exchanged profanities and threats, and a group of students
began repeatedly chanting USA after hanging a makeshift American
flag on a tree on campus; in response, a student in a group displaying
the Mexican flag shouted f*** them white boys, f*** them white
boys. An assistant principal intervened. The same day an American
flag-wearing student was approached by a student who shoved a Mexican
flag at him and said something in Spanish expressing anger at [his]
clothing.

I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms for Muslims to
pray? What they should do is have a school vote.

I like Steak on Friday.
Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried to use the room at
the same time.

I don't see why.

You've never been to Israel. They have riots in one or the other
prays in the wrong area. They are both strange people well their
fundies..

That's because they claim the same place as unusually holy. No one is
going to claim that classroom is unusually holy.

Yes but the hate is still there for some reason. I'd say the place
belongs to who had it first.
https://goo.gl/EQhvNt
Personally I don't care if someone worships a rock as long as they
don't want to force me to also worship a rock.
Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

Impermissible endorsement does not hinge on either requiring attendance
or participation.

Endorsement?

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-04 15:45:54 UTC

{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.

Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Post by Mattb
Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

Impermissible endorsement does not hinge on either requiring attendance
or participation.

Endorsement?

The argument is that Christmas carols that mention Jesus being sung in
public school is an endorsement of Christianity by the government.

Patrick

2018-12-04 16:27:43 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.
Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

No. They want to become part of our welfare state.

Kevrob

2018-12-04 18:07:02 UTC

Post by Patrick
No. They want to become part of our welfare state.

Thius is such a load of crap. Latino immigrants work their
asses off.

They may, once they are citizens, VOTE for advocates of the
welfare state, but not because they don't want to work.
It also isn't wise to generalize. The Cuban vote in the US
was solidly Republican for decades, as the GOP was seen as
as the free market, anti-communist party. [In practice,
Republicans support plenty of market intervention. Crony
capitalism, corporate welfare, etc.]

Would Latinos who vote for the Democrats want state medical
care, free college tuition, etc? Probably. Many people with
with not much want free stuff, on the "I eat, you pay" model.
That's also true of many middle income and well-to-do folks.
It's problematic whether they can actually avoid paying for
it, though. It depends on something called the "incidence
of taxation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incidence

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Don Martin

2018-12-04 23:09:11 UTC

Post by Kevrob
Would Latinos who vote for the Democrats want state medical
care, free college tuition, etc? Probably. Many people with
with not much want free stuff, on the "I eat, you pay" model.

Do people really believe that such things are _free_? I support a
national health scheme quite aware that my taxes will pay for it, and
also aware that the resulting tax bill will be less than the insurance
bill I presently pay for coverage. Similarly, I support tax-paid
education, because educated citizens are much nicer to live around
than uneducated ones: for one thing, they tend to be employed (and
thereby paying taxes to educate others) and less likely to burglarize
my home while I am out. Your presentation is more propagandistic than
realistic, like Ronald Reagan's constant theme of "welfare queens in
Cadillacs.".

--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.

Christopher A. Lee

2018-12-04 23:22:52 UTC

rOn Tue, 04 Dec 2018 18:09:11 -0500, Don Martin

Post by Don Martin

Post by Kevrob
Would Latinos who vote for the Democrats want state medical
care, free college tuition, etc? Probably. Many people with
with not much want free stuff, on the "I eat, you pay" model.

Distortion, noted.

Post by Don Martin
Do people really believe that such things are _free_? I support a
national health scheme quite aware that my taxes will pay for it, and
also aware that the resulting tax bill will be less than the insurance
bill I presently pay for coverage.

Tell me about it. The US spends a larger proportion its GNP on its
insurance-based healthcare system than countries with a national,
taxpayer funderd system.

Post by Don Martin
Similarly, I support tax-paid
education, because educated citizens are much nicer to live around
than uneducated ones: for one thing, they tend to be employed (and
thereby paying taxes to educate others) and less likely to burglarize
my home while I am out.

They also provide the next generation of scientists and technologists
which are necessary for the country's future. How anybody expects a
for-profit system which too many people can't afford and which saddles
people with decades of debt, can do this is beyond me.

Post by Don Martin
Your presentation is more propagandistic than
realistic, like Ronald Reagan's constant theme of "welfare queens in
Cadillacs.".

Yep.

I often wonder if kevrob is Kresch back with a new nym.

Kevrob

2018-12-04 23:39:34 UTC

Post by Christopher A. Lee
rOn Tue, 04 Dec 2018 18:09:11 -0500, Don Martin

Post by Don Martin

Post by Kevrob
Would Latinos who vote for the Democrats want state medical
care, free college tuition, etc? Probably. Many people with
with not much want free stuff, on the "I eat, you pay" model.

Distortion, noted.

Tell me about it. The US spends a larger proportion its GNP on its
insurance-based healthcare system than countries with a national,
taxpayer funderd system.

Post by Don Martin
Your presentation is more propagandistic than
realistic, like Ronald Reagan's constant theme of "welfare queens in
Cadillacs.".

Yep.
I often wonder if kevrob is Kresch back with a new nym.

I've been "Kevrob" on USENET since before Google ate deja.com.

I'm a free market, libertarian, atheist. I son;t even recognize
this "Kresch" character.

My distrust of government and preference for minarchism have
led me to oppose state-funded and organized medical care,
sachooling, and many other government programs. I oppose
the government owning and operating schools for reasons very
like the ones that make me oppose it running the churches
and publishing. The citizenry should form the government.
The government souldn't be trying to mold the minds of the citizenry.

In the US, the main beneficiaries of state-run transfer programs
are people who vote: social security transfers money from the
working young to retirees, education spending transfers money
to those who have the jobs in the education sector from everybody
else, etc.

If administration of the programs could be done by some AI,
and nobody was hired to staff them, they'd lose massive amounts
of support. Most programs exist for the pork.

I suggest reading soe James Buchanan and other "public
choice" theorists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_choice

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Kevrob

2018-12-05 00:02:15 UTC

Post by Kevrob
I've been "Kevrob" on USENET since before Google ate deja.com.
I'm a free market, libertarian, atheist. I don't even recognize
this "Kresch" character.

I refreshed my memory. A regular poster, but and maybe a bit more
towards the "anarchist" corner of the Nolan Chart than the minarchist
I am.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Steve is offline now

2018-12-04 16:59:33 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

Seems to me that it was the Mexican flags that caused the problem.

2018-12-04 17:05:00 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

Seems to me that it was the Mexican flags that caused the problem.

all this caused by a square of dyed cloth , USA , USA , USA

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-04 17:24:46 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

Seems to me that it was the Mexican flags that caused the problem.

I suppose it is part of American culture to not tolerate displaying a
non-American flag.

Steve is offline now

2018-12-04 17:31:09 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

Seems to me that it was the Mexican flags that caused the problem.

I suppose it is part of American culture to not tolerate displaying a
non-American flag.

No, but I would think it is part of American culture to side with the
home team when there is a dispute about flags. Of course lefty culture
these days always seem to side against the USA.

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-04 17:46:18 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

Seems to me that it was the Mexican flags that caused the problem.

I suppose it is part of American culture to not tolerate displaying a
non-American flag.

No, but I would think it is part of American culture to side with the
home team when there is a dispute about flags. Of course lefty culture
these days always seem to side against the USA.

The home team's flag was displayed as an act of intolerance against the
away team's flag. In that dispute, we ought to support tolerance.

STO...

2018-12-04 17:53:10 UTC

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 17:52:51 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth

{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed
the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American
culture.
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

Seems to me that it was the Mexican flags that caused the problem.

I suppose it is part of American culture to not tolerate displaying a
non-American flag.

No, but I would think it is part of American culture to side with the
home team when there is a dispute about flags. Of course lefty culture
these days always seem to side against the USA.

The home team's flag was displayed as an act of intolerance against the
away team's flag. In that dispute, we ought to support tolerance.

Ban the flags because they offend some people. ;)

--
That's Karma

Steve is offline now

2018-12-04 18:16:36 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

Seems to me that it was the Mexican flags that caused the problem.

I suppose it is part of American culture to not tolerate displaying a
non-American flag.

No, but I would think it is part of American culture to side with the
home team when there is a dispute about flags. Of course lefty culture
these days always seem to side against the USA.

The home team's flag was displayed as an act of intolerance against the
away team's flag. In that dispute, we ought to support tolerance.

I'm not likely to support a leftist's side on anything.

NoBody

2018-12-05 11:33:40 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

Seems to me that it was the Mexican flags that caused the problem.

I suppose it is part of American culture to not tolerate displaying a
non-American flag.

No, but I would think it is part of American culture to side with the
home team when there is a dispute about flags. Of course lefty culture
these days always seem to side against the USA.

The home team's flag was displayed as an act of intolerance against the
away team's flag. In that dispute, we ought to support tolerance.

Support tolerance by limiting a citizen's right to Freedom of Speech?
Do you understand what you type?

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-05 16:10:03 UTC

{snip}

Post by Steve is offline now
No, but I would think it is part of American culture to side with the
home team when there is a dispute about flags. Of course lefty culture
these days always seem to side against the USA.

The home team's flag was displayed as an act of intolerance against the
away team's flag. In that dispute, we ought to support tolerance.

Support tolerance by limiting a citizen's right to Freedom of Speech?
Do you understand what you type?

I'm not endorsing the court's opinion that the kids had to stop wearing
the American flag. However, I am expressing my opinion that the wearing
of the American flag was an act of intolerance even if it ought to be
protected speech.

NoBody

2018-12-06 11:23:29 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

The home team's flag was displayed as an act of intolerance against the
away team's flag. In that dispute, we ought to support tolerance.

Support tolerance by limiting a citizen's right to Freedom of Speech?
Do you understand what you type?

You said in the above that we should have "supported tolerance" in the
case which means seems to say you support the courts opinion. Lately
Josh, I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to say as you type
in circles.

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-06 16:06:43 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

The home team's flag was displayed as an act of intolerance against the
away team's flag. In that dispute, we ought to support tolerance.

Support tolerance by limiting a citizen's right to Freedom of Speech?
Do you understand what you type?

You said in the above that we should have "supported tolerance" in the
case which means seems to say you support the courts opinion.

No, that conclusion does not follow. For example, I support tolerance
and yet agree with court decisions that have allowed Nazis to march even
those marches are about the furthest thing you can get from supporting
tolerance.

NoBody

2018-12-05 11:32:32 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

Seems to me that it was the Mexican flags that caused the problem.

I suppose it is part of American culture to not tolerate displaying a
non-American flag.

And yet the courts held that American children couldn't wear American
flag pins. Seems you have it backwards.

NoBody

2018-12-05 11:30:32 UTC

On Tue, 04 Dec 2018 11:59:33 -0500, Steve is offline now

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

Seems to me that it was the Mexican flags that caused the problem.

But that's ok because the courts seem to support the rights of
troublemakers over the rights of everyone else. We DARE not try to
exercise of Freedom of Speech.

Mattb

2018-12-04 18:53:19 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.

Could be but that is freedom of speech. I know it isn't the
politically approved speech of the liberals but it is still free
speech.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

So Americans had their freedom limited because immigrants might get
violent? The antifa movement use that by calling in death threats and
saying they will riot if a speaker not approved by the liberal mob is
going to speak at a public venue.

Then again to some immigrants the only true purpose of whites is to
pay taxes for their handouts?

When I lived in Florida we all celebrated Cinco de Mayo there were
parties and get together's everywhere, it wasn't just a Mex type
Hispanic holiday. It was a time when we were together and showed we
were of one culture at least for one day. Also showed Cubans could
cook really good food, and had a good cultural past.
Don't know what it means in California but seems to be the bent.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Hope not. I won't change for them. Sadly I don't know of any way to
help fix Venezuela or Honduras other than force and I don't support
that.

Post by Mattb
Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

Impermissible endorsement does not hinge on either requiring attendance
or participation.

Endorsement?

The argument is that Christmas carols that mention Jesus being sung in
public school is an endorsement of Christianity by the government.

Been listening to many songs and there are many that don't and yet
still have a religious ring to them but them, again Christmas is said
to be a religious holiday but by how people act.......Then again Jesus
according to the Bible was not born in the winter.

I'm wondering how long before they won't be able to call it a
Christmas concert but a holiday concert.

NoBody

2018-12-05 11:26:32 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants won't like it
is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

I think you know. They wore the American flag because they opposed the
wearing of the Mexican flag. And, that is not part of American culture.

Free speech is part of American culture. It's none of your business
why they wore them.

So the court is now modifying the 1st Ammendment on the fly. How
lovely.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Oh the heck they aren't. Why are they bringing and waving the flags
of the former countries with them as they attempt to invade our
borders?

Post by Mattb
Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

Impermissible endorsement does not hinge on either requiring attendance
or participation.

Endorsement?

The argument is that Christmas carols that mention Jesus being sung in
public school is an endorsement of Christianity by the government.

If it's done as part of a larger presentation, it's NOT an endorsement
of Christianity. A court that rules otherwise is being anti-religion,
thereby violating the 1st Amendment.

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-05 16:09:57 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}
Also, the court held that the prohibition was justified to prevent
violence, and that determination had nothing to do with some of the
students being immigrants (both immigrants and others were fighting).
This is the so-called heckler's veto which in most instances cannot be
used to censor speech. But in K-12 public schools, we have a circuit
split on whether the veto is allowed.

So the court is now modifying the 1st Ammendment on the fly. How
lovely.

The circuit split derives from the Tinker case which said speech can be
censored when "school authorities [are able] to forecast substantial
disruption of or material interference with school activities."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/393/503

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Oh the heck they aren't. Why are they bringing and waving the flags
of the former countries with them as they attempt to invade our
borders?

I believe Mattb agreed with me that waving your native country's flag
isn't an attempt to change our culture.

Post by Mattb
Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

Impermissible endorsement does not hinge on either requiring attendance
or participation.

Endorsement?

The argument is that Christmas carols that mention Jesus being sung in
public school is an endorsement of Christianity by the government.

If it's done as part of a larger presentation, it's NOT an endorsement
of Christianity. A court that rules otherwise is being anti-religion,
thereby violating the 1st Amendment.

Certainly, the details matter as to whether it would be an endorsement,
and opinions will vary in interpreting those details.

NoBody

2018-12-06 11:26:35 UTC

So the court is now modifying the 1st Ammendment on the fly. How
lovely.

The circuit split derives from the Tinker case which said speech can be
censored when "school authorities [are able] to forecast substantial
disruption of or material interference with school activities."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/393/503

Wearing the flag disrupts NOTHING. That argument is just completely
silly.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Oh the heck they aren't. Why are they bringing and waving the flags
of the former countries with them as they attempt to invade our
borders?

I believe Mattb agreed with me that waving your native country's flag
isn't an attempt to change our culture.

I don't care what Matt said. The waving of the flags is clearly
stating that they plan to bring everything they left behind with them
(political and cultural norms) and THAT will change American culture.

Post by Mattb
Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

Impermissible endorsement does not hinge on either requiring attendance
or participation.

Endorsement?

The argument is that Christmas carols that mention Jesus being sung in
public school is an endorsement of Christianity by the government.

If it's done as part of a larger presentation, it's NOT an endorsement
of Christianity. A court that rules otherwise is being anti-religion,
thereby violating the 1st Amendment.

Certainly, the details matter as to whether it would be an endorsement,
and opinions will vary in interpreting those details.

You're being vague again, Josh.

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-06 16:11:39 UTC

{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Oh the heck they aren't. Why are they bringing and waving the flags
of the former countries with them as they attempt to invade our
borders?

I believe Mattb agreed with me that waving your native country's flag
isn't an attempt to change our culture.

I guess our culture was victimized by Irish immigrants (who wave the
Irish flag on St Patrick's day) and Italian immigrants (who wave the
Italian flag on Columbus day).

Post by Mattb
Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

Impermissible endorsement does not hinge on either requiring attendance
or participation.

Endorsement?

The argument is that Christmas carols that mention Jesus being sung in
public school is an endorsement of Christianity by the government.

If it's done as part of a larger presentation, it's NOT an endorsement
of Christianity. A court that rules otherwise is being anti-religion,
thereby violating the 1st Amendment.

Certainly, the details matter as to whether it would be an endorsement,
and opinions will vary in interpreting those details.

You're being vague again, Josh.

The details of what the larger presentation could make a difference.
For example, if it's one religious song in a mix of secular Christmas
songs, it might pass muster.

STO...

2018-12-06 16:22:26 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Oh the heck they aren't. Why are they bringing and waving the flags
of the former countries with them as they attempt to invade our
borders?

I believe Mattb agreed with me that waving your native country's flag
isn't an attempt to change our culture.

I guess our culture was victimized by Irish immigrants (who wave the
Irish flag on St Patrick's day) and Italian immigrants (who wave the
Italian flag on Columbus day).

They came in through the open gates at Ellis Island... they didn't
break down the gates and force their way in. A BIG difference when it
comes down to intent.

--
That's Karma

*Rumination*
11.0.4 - "The individual mandate forces individuals into commerce
precisely because they elected to refrain from commercial activity,"
says Justice Roberts. "Such a law cannot be sustained under a clause
authorizing Congress to 'regulate Commerce.'"

Kevrob

2018-12-06 19:44:39 UTC

Post by STO...

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Oh the heck they aren't. Why are they bringing and waving the flags
of the former countries with them as they attempt to invade our
borders?

I believe Mattb agreed with me that waving your native country's flag
isn't an attempt to change our culture.

I guess our culture was victimized by Irish immigrants (who wave the
Irish flag on St Patrick's day) and Italian immigrants (who wave the
Italian flag on Columbus day).

They came in through the open gates at Ellis Island... they didn't
break down the gates and force their way in. A BIG difference when it
comes down to intent.

The real difference is that Irish and Italian immigrants don't
hold an grudge irredentist grudge about the present-day US Southweat.

If an American citizen of permanent foreign resident (green card
holder) waves a Mexican flag in celebration of his heritage, in the
same manner as I wave an Irish tricolor on St Paddy's Day, then that
is fine. If he, in his heart of hearts, wants to recreate a mythical
Aztlan, that's another.

A school club should have sold some T-shirts with crossed
US and Mexican flags to raise money for its activities.
Everybody could have worn those. If "everybody's a little
Irish on St Patrick's day"....right?

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Don Martin

2018-12-07 00:05:04 UTC

Post by STO...

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Oh the heck they aren't. Why are they bringing and waving the flags
of the former countries with them as they attempt to invade our
borders?

I believe Mattb agreed with me that waving your native country's flag
isn't an attempt to change our culture.

I guess our culture was victimized by Irish immigrants (who wave the
Irish flag on St Patrick's day) and Italian immigrants (who wave the
Italian flag on Columbus day).

They came in through the open gates at Ellis Island... they didn't
break down the gates and force their way in. A BIG difference when it
comes down to intent.

The real difference is that Irish and Italian immigrants don't
hold an grudge irredentist grudge about the present-day US Southweat.
If an American citizen of permanent foreign resident (green card
holder) waves a Mexican flag in celebration of his heritage, in the
same manner as I wave an Irish tricolor on St Paddy's Day, then that
is fine. If he, in his heart of hearts, wants to recreate a mythical
Aztlan, that's another.
A school club should have sold some T-shirts with crossed
US and Mexican flags to raise money for its activities.
Everybody could have worn those. If "everybody's a little
Irish on St Patrick's day"....right?

Well, certainly, everybody who likes beer (though I draw the line at
green).

--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
Je pense, donc je suis Charlie.

Mattb

2018-12-06 19:51:13 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Oh the heck they aren't. Why are they bringing and waving the flags
of the former countries with them as they attempt to invade our
borders?

I believe Mattb agreed with me that waving your native country's flag
isn't an attempt to change our culture.

I guess our culture was victimized by Irish immigrants (who wave the
Irish flag on St Patrick's day) and Italian immigrants (who wave the
Italian flag on Columbus day).

Sometimes it is showing pride of a persons heritage. I have no
problem with that a long as Americans who chose to aren't prevented by
threats of violence from immigrants. Immigrants that do such should
be deported IMO.

I'm Native American 'Lakota' and would wear my flag at times though
doubt anyone would know what it was.

Post by Mattb
Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

Impermissible endorsement does not hinge on either requiring attendance
or participation.

Endorsement?

The argument is that Christmas carols that mention Jesus being sung in
public school is an endorsement of Christianity by the government.

If it's done as part of a larger presentation, it's NOT an endorsement
of Christianity. A court that rules otherwise is being anti-religion,
thereby violating the 1st Amendment.

Certainly, the details matter as to whether it would be an endorsement,
and opinions will vary in interpreting those details.

You're being vague again, Josh.

The details of what the larger presentation could make a difference.
For example, if it's one religious song in a mix of secular Christmas
songs, it might pass muster.

Patrick

2018-12-06 20:56:26 UTC

Post by Mattb
Sometimes it is showing pride of a persons heritage. I have no
problem with that a long as Americans who chose to aren't prevented by
threats of violence from immigrants. Immigrants that do such should
be deported IMO.
I'm Native American 'Lakota' and would wear my flag at times though
doubt anyone would know what it was.

Especially the Lakota.

Mattb

2018-12-06 21:06:26 UTC

Especially the Lakota.

Did you have a point?

Patrick

2018-12-06 22:54:42 UTC

Especially the Lakota.

Did you have a point?

Show me a picture of "YOUR" flag.
I am extrelely interested.

Mattb

2018-12-06 23:34:02 UTC

Especially the Lakota.

Did you have a point?

Show me a picture of "YOUR" flag.
I am extrelely interested.

It is a Lakota flag not mine.

Loading Image...

Kevrob

2018-12-06 22:58:03 UTC

Especially the Lakota.

Did you have a point?

He's just being a jerk.

This one, maybe?

https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/xa-oglal.html

At the Libertarian pary Nominating Convention in Seattle, 1987,
I got to shake the late Russell Means' hand.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Mattb

2018-12-06 23:40:23 UTC

Especially the Lakota.

Did you have a point?

He's just being a jerk.
This one, maybe?
https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/xa-oglal.html

Patrick is a strange one.

Post by Kevrob
At the Libertarian pary Nominating Convention in Seattle, 1987,
I got to shake the late Russell Means' hand.

I never got to meet him.

Post by Kevrob
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-07 02:00:37 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Oh the heck they aren't. Why are they bringing and waving the flags
of the former countries with them as they attempt to invade our
borders?

I believe Mattb agreed with me that waving your native country's flag
isn't an attempt to change our culture.

I guess our culture was victimized by Irish immigrants (who wave the
Irish flag on St Patrick's day) and Italian immigrants (who wave the
Italian flag on Columbus day).

How about Americans who ave the American flag as expressions of hatred
of people who display the Irish, Italian or Lakota flag? Sure they
should be able to wave the American flag, but what do you think of the
message they are sending?

Mattb

2018-12-07 03:47:58 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Oh the heck they aren't. Why are they bringing and waving the flags
of the former countries with them as they attempt to invade our
borders?

I believe Mattb agreed with me that waving your native country's flag
isn't an attempt to change our culture.

I guess our culture was victimized by Irish immigrants (who wave the
Irish flag on St Patrick's day) and Italian immigrants (who wave the
Italian flag on Columbus day).

How about Americans who ave the American flag as expressions of hatred
of people who display the Irish, Italian or Lakota flag?

How can you show it is a sign of hatred?

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Sure they
should be able to wave the American flag, but what do you think of the
message they are sending?

This is America.

Josh Rosenbluth

2018-12-07 04:00:40 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Bottom line as I see it: Latino or other immigrants aren't trying to
change American culture.

Oh the heck they aren't. Why are they bringing and waving the flags
of the former countries with them as they attempt to invade our
borders?

I believe Mattb agreed with me that waving your native country's flag
isn't an attempt to change our culture.

I guess our culture was victimized by Irish immigrants (who wave the
Irish flag on St Patrick's day) and Italian immigrants (who wave the
Italian flag on Columbus day).

How about Americans who ave the American flag as expressions of hatred
of people who display the Irish, Italian or Lakota flag?

How can you show it is a sign of hatred?

It was pretty obvious in the case of the Mexican flag being displayed on
Cinco de Mayo.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Sure they
should be able to wave the American flag, but what do you think of the
message they are sending?

This is America.

And in America, we hate displays of the Irish, Italian and Lakota flags?

Dexter

2018-12-04 16:46:11 UTC

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 17:52:51 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:43:19 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:26:02 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth

{snip}

Post by Mattb
Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths

because it might offend >>>>>>>> a immigrant?

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule

would likely violate >>>>>>> Freedom of Speech.

Post by Mattb
You would think so. The if the immigrants don't

like the American >>>>>> Flag they are free to get the
fuck out of the USA.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Wearing the Mexican flag is equally protected by

Freedom of Speech. If >>>>> those born in the USA don't
like the Mexican flag, they are free to fuck >>>>> off.

Yes it is and wasn't the problem. I don't care if

they wear the flag >>>> on other nations many do it that
were born here. The problem is when >>>> Americans must
change how they are to not offend a immigrant unless it

is a racist thing as that is always wrong. Any who

come here and >>>> believe we must change our cultural
ways for them can get out.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I don't know anyone who believes that and I live in a

city that is 75% >>> Latino.

Most Hispanics I know don't believe that way.

https://www.aalrr.com/EdLawConnectBlog/federal-appellate-c
ourt-upholds-california-high-schools-ban-on-american-flag-
shirts-on-cinco-de-mayo >> >> The circumstances leading
to the litigation originated a year before >> the May 5,
2010 Cinco de Mayo celebration. The school had a history

of violence among students, some gang-related and some

drawn along >> racial lines. On Cinco de Mayo in 2009
there was an altercation on >> campus between a group of
predominantly Caucasian students and a group >> of
Mexican students. (All judges used the term Mexican to
include >> U.S.-born students of Mexican ancestry and
students born in Mexico.) >> The groups exchanged
profanities and threats, and a group of students >> began
repeatedly chanting USA after hanging a makeshift
American >> flag on a tree on campus; in response, a
student in a group displaying >> the Mexican flag
shouted f*** them white boys, f*** them white >> boys.
An assistant principal intervened. The same day an
American >> flag-wearing student was approached by a
student who shoved a Mexican >> flag at him and said
something in Spanish expressing anger at [his] >>
clothing.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de
Mayo was part of American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants
won't like it is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special

rooms for Muslims to >>>>>>>> pray? What they should do
is have a school vote.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Schools are permitted to accommodate religious

practices so long as they >>>>>>> don't promote them.
Thus, so-called prayer rooms are made available to

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
anyone for any purpose. Another example of a

permissible accomodation >>>>>>> is fish on Friday.

Post by Mattb
I like Steak on Friday.
Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried

to use the room at >>>>>> the same time.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I don't see why.

You've never been to Israel. They have riots in one

or the other >>>> prays in the wrong area. They are both
strange people well their >>>> fundies..

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That's because they claim the same place as unusually

holy. No one is >>> going to claim that classroom is
unusually holy. >>

Yes but the hate is still there for some reason. I'd

say the place >> belongs to who had it first.

https://goo.gl/EQhvNt
Personally I don't care if someone worships a rock as

long as they >> don't want to force me to also worship a
rock. >>

Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these

concerts or sing in >> them?

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Impermissible endorsement does not hinge on either
requiring attendance or participation.

Endorsement?

______________________________________________

Struggling with the concept of endorsement are you?

--
"The most unsettling aspect of my atheism for Christians is
when they realize that their Bible has no power to make me
wince. They are used to using it like a cattle prod to get
people to cower into compliance." - Author unknown

Patrick

2018-12-04 17:24:30 UTC

Post by Dexter

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Struggling with the concept of endorsement are you?

matty thinks he is on survivor. He looks for alliances, and wants to
vote others off the island. He is strictly entertainment here.

Mattb

2018-12-04 18:56:56 UTC

Post by Dexter

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 17:52:51 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:43:19 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 13:26:02 -0800, Josh Rosenbluth

{snip}

Post by Mattb
Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths

because it might offend >>>>>>>> a immigrant?

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule

would likely violate >>>>>>> Freedom of Speech.

Post by Mattb
You would think so. The if the immigrants don't

like the American >>>>>> Flag they are free to get the
fuck out of the USA.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Wearing the Mexican flag is equally protected by

Freedom of Speech. If >>>>> those born in the USA don't
like the Mexican flag, they are free to fuck >>>>> off.

Yes it is and wasn't the problem. I don't care if

they wear the flag >>>> on other nations many do it that
were born here. The problem is when >>>> Americans must
change how they are to not offend a immigrant unless it

is a racist thing as that is always wrong. Any who

come here and >>>> believe we must change our cultural
ways for them can get out.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I don't know anyone who believes that and I live in a

city that is 75% >>> Latino.

Most Hispanics I know don't believe that way.

of violence among students, some gang-related and some

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de
Mayo was part of American culture.

Who knows but to be told they can't because immigrants
won't like it is not. Immigrants can get the hell gone.

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special

rooms for Muslims to >>>>>>>> pray? What they should do
is have a school vote.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Schools are permitted to accommodate religious

practices so long as they >>>>>>> don't promote them.
Thus, so-called prayer rooms are made available to

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
anyone for any purpose. Another example of a

permissible accomodation >>>>>>> is fish on Friday.

Post by Mattb
I like Steak on Friday.
Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried

to use the room at >>>>>> the same time.

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
I don't see why.

You've never been to Israel. They have riots in one

or the other >>>> prays in the wrong area. They are both
strange people well their >>>> fundies..

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
That's because they claim the same place as unusually

holy. No one is >>> going to claim that classroom is
unusually holy. >>

Yes but the hate is still there for some reason. I'd

say the place >> belongs to who had it first.

https://goo.gl/EQhvNt
Personally I don't care if someone worships a rock as

long as they >> don't want to force me to also worship a
rock. >>

Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these

concerts or sing in >> them?

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
Impermissible endorsement does not hinge on either
requiring attendance or participation.

Endorsement?

______________________________________________
Struggling with the concept of endorsement are you?

Asking a question as to the meaning, a more detailed response he has
for it. Do you feel superior now?

NoBody

2018-12-04 11:24:05 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Mattb
Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths because it might offend
a immigrant?

Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule would likely violate
Freedom of Speech.

You would think so. The if the immigrants don't like the American
Flag they are free to get the fuck out of the USA.

Wearing the Mexican flag is equally protected by Freedom of Speech. If
those born in the USA don't like the Mexican flag, they are free to fuck
off.

I don't know anyone who believes that and I live in a city that is 75%
Latino.

Most Hispanics I know don't believe that way.
https://www.aalrr.com/EdLawConnectBlog/federal-appellate-court-upholds-california-high-schools-ban-on-american-flag-shirts-on-cinco-de-mayo
The circumstances leading to the litigation originated a year before
the May 5, 2010 Cinco de Mayo celebration. The school had a history
of violence among students, some gang-related and some drawn along
racial lines. On Cinco de Mayo in 2009 there was an altercation on
campus between a group of predominantly Caucasian students and a group
of Mexican students. (All judges used the term Mexican to include
U.S.-born students of Mexican ancestry and students born in Mexico.)
The groups exchanged profanities and threats, and a group of students
began repeatedly chanting USA after hanging a makeshift American
flag on a tree on campus; in response, a student in a group displaying
the Mexican flag shouted f*** them white boys, f*** them white
boys. An assistant principal intervened. The same day an American
flag-wearing student was approached by a student who shoved a Mexican
flag at him and said something in Spanish expressing anger at [his]
clothing.

I wasn't aware that wearing American flags on Cinco de Mayo was part of
American culture.

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms for Muslims to
pray? What they should do is have a school vote.

I like Steak on Friday.
Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried to use the room at
the same time.

I don't see why.

You've never been to Israel. They have riots in one or the other
prays in the wrong area. They are both strange people well their
fundies..

That's because they claim the same place as unusually holy. No one is
going to claim that classroom is unusually holy.

Yes but the hate is still there for some reason. I'd say the place
belongs to who had it first.
https://goo.gl/EQhvNt
Personally I don't care if someone worships a rock as long as they
don't want to force me to also worship a rock.
Then again is anyone forcing people to go to these concerts or sing in
them?

Impermissible endorsement does not hinge on either requiring attendance
or participation.

Somewhere along the line, the idea of Free Speech and religion got
lost when snowflakes demanded banning it when they didn't agree with
it.

NoBody

2018-12-04 11:22:42 UTC

Post by Josh Rosenbluth
{snip}

Post by Mattb
Wasn't there some schools in CA where you
couldn't wear the American Flag on your cloths because it might offend
a immigrant?

Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule would likely violate
Freedom of Speech.

You would think so. The if the immigrants don't like the American
Flag they are free to get the fuck out of the USA.

Wearing the Mexican flag is equally protected by Freedom of Speech. If
those born in the USA don't like the Mexican flag, they are free to fuck
off.

I don't know anyone who believes that and I live in a city that is 75%
Latino.

It happened in California as I've shown you.

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms for Muslims to
pray? What they should do is have a school vote.

I like Steak on Friday.
Might get interesting if a Jew and a Muslim tried to use the room at
the same time.

I don't see why.

You've never been to Israel. They have riots in one or the other
prays in the wrong area. They are both strange people well their
fundies..

That's because they claim the same place as unusually holy. No one is
going to claim that classroom is unusually holy.

NoBody

2018-12-04 11:20:52 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

I don't think not celebrating Christmas is a promotion of atheism.

Not that I know of. But if there were, that rule would likely violate
Freedom of Speech.

All you have to do is look.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/clay-calvert/can-students-wear-america_b_6971952.html

https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-students-sent-home-for-wearing-u-s-flags-on-cinco-de-mayo

Post by Mattb
If atheist are such snowflakes that the song Silent Night offends then
that is just to bad. Not having the song offends people also. What
about Marry Christmas darling?

The courts would probably view that song as not promoting Christianity
(no Jesus in that song).

It wouldn't surprised my if the the 9th Circus twisted some logic to
ban it. BTW, what would be wrong with doing Christian songs during a
Christmas concert if it's mixed in with other religious themed music?

Post by Mattb
Also seems Christianity is being
targeted because don't some schools have special rooms for Muslims to
pray? What they should do is have a school vote.

Can folks read the bible in the Muslim "prayer rooms"? See if you can
find a story on that.

Cloud Hobbit

2018-12-03 03:53:02 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

Atheism is not taught nor is any religion.

I don't think atheism can be promoted as that would be a violation. Schools aren't supposed to promote any kind of belief system.

What's needed are courses in logic and how to make decisions based on evidence. Religion would die even sooner.

Mattb

2018-12-03 19:08:54 UTC

On Sun, 2 Dec 2018 19:53:02 -0800 (PST), Cloud Hobbit

Post by Cloud Hobbit

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

Atheism is not taught nor is any religion.

Teaching kids that a religion is banned even to the songs isn't
promoting atheism?

Post by Cloud Hobbit
I don't think atheism can be promoted as that would be a violation. Schools aren't supposed to promote any kind of belief system.
What's needed are courses in logic and how to make decisions based on evidence. Religion would die even sooner.

I agree that needs to be taught yet liberal schools are more into
homogenizing and being politically correct that in critical thinking.
To be politically correct you need to teach some lies.

b***@m.nu

2018-12-03 13:13:13 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

yeah I can see how promoting a neutral state would be dangerous.... it
may even be flammable

Mattb

2018-12-03 17:42:33 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

yeah I can see how promoting a neutral state would be dangerous.... it
may even be flammable

That isn't neutral that is beyond that point to promoting only atheist
thought in schools. I am totally against teaching religion in schools
but people have sang these songs for centuries.

The kids should vote on it because leaving them out might be offensive
to some.

b***@m.nu

2018-12-03 21:42:43 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

yeah I can see how promoting a neutral state would be dangerous.... it
may even be flammable

That isn't neutral that is beyond that point to promoting only atheist
thought in schools. I am totally against teaching religion in schools
but people have sang these songs for centuries.

This is the article does not even mention atheist. So chances are the
complaint came from Jewish or Islamic

and yes atheist is a totally neutral state. Atheists don't give a fuck
as long as the theists morons don't push their crap in your face. It
is the other religions that are always bitching cause they think their
god is the better one...

And it is good to finally know fort sure you are NOT an atheist not
even agnostic.

Post by Mattb
The kids should vote on it because leaving them out might be offensive
to some.

School is for education not for singing of ONLY christian related
material.

Christians are so fucking stupid

Mattb

2018-12-03 21:58:31 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

yeah I can see how promoting a neutral state would be dangerous.... it
may even be flammable

That isn't neutral that is beyond that point to promoting only atheist
thought in schools. I am totally against teaching religion in schools
but people have sang these songs for centuries.

This is the article does not even mention atheist. So chances are the
complaint came from Jewish or Islamic

You do have a point. They should tell everyone who has the problem.

Post by b***@m.nu
and yes atheist is a totally neutral state. Atheists don't give a fuck
as long as the theists morons don't push their crap in your face. It
is the other religions that are always bitching cause they think their
god is the better one...

Sad thing is according to the Jew, Christians and Islam it is the same
god.

Post by b***@m.nu
And it is good to finally know fort sure you are NOT an atheist not
even agnostic.

Do you or are you just a militant atheist and so much like Duke as
Duke claims I am atheist. Militant atheism and Fundamentalist are so
much alike in how they act to any who have even a slightly different
opinion.

Post by Mattb
The kids should vote on it because leaving them out might be offensive
to some.

School is for education not for singing of ONLY christian related
material.
Christians are so fucking stupid

So you are saying your views are all that matter.

That is just sad.

Rod

2018-12-04 18:43:06 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

yeah I can see how promoting a neutral state would be dangerous.... it
may even be flammable

That isn't neutral that is beyond that point to promoting only atheist
thought in schools. I am totally against teaching religion in schools
but people have sang these songs for centuries.

This is the article does not even mention atheist. So chances are the
complaint came from Jewish or Islamic

You do have a point. They should tell everyone who has the problem.

Sad thing is according to the Jew, Christians and Islam it is the same
god.

Post by b***@m.nu
And it is good to finally know fort sure you are NOT an atheist not
even agnostic.

Post by Mattb
The kids should vote on it because leaving them out might be offensive
to some.

School is for education not for singing of ONLY christian related
material.
Christians are so fucking stupid

So you are saying your views are all that matter.
That is just sad.

That is bilgat for you!

Mattb

2018-12-04 19:44:52 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

yeah I can see how promoting a neutral state would be dangerous.... it
may even be flammable

That isn't neutral that is beyond that point to promoting only atheist
thought in schools. I am totally against teaching religion in schools
but people have sang these songs for centuries.

This is the article does not even mention atheist. So chances are the
complaint came from Jewish or Islamic

You do have a point. They should tell everyone who has the problem.

Sad thing is according to the Jew, Christians and Islam it is the same
god.

Post by b***@m.nu
And it is good to finally know fort sure you are NOT an atheist not
even agnostic.

Post by Mattb
The kids should vote on it because leaving them out might be offensive
to some.

School is for education not for singing of ONLY christian related
material.
Christians are so fucking stupid

So you are saying your views are all that matter.
That is just sad.

That is bilgat for you!

He is the example of a true militant atheist as bad as the extreme
fundamentalist. I think I may have let slip how I feel of fundies
over the years be they theist or atheist. ;-)))

Cloud Hobbit

2018-12-03 23:28:43 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

yeah I can see how promoting a neutral state would be dangerous.... it
may even be flammable

That isn't neutral that is beyond that point to promoting only atheist
thought in schools.

No, it isn't. It's not promoting any belief system including atheism.

I am totally against teaching religion in schools

Post by Mattb
but people have sang these songs for centuries.

Which has no bearing on the legality of performing them in a public school.

Post by Mattb
The kids should vote on it because leaving them out might be offensive
to some.

Kids are there to learn, it isn't a democracy. The schools can't risk violating the federal law that prevents them from advocating for any religion. They risk the loss of much money that would be spent in defense of their actions in court and funding from the feds.

There is always going to be someone willing to go to court over this issue.

Personally, I like a lot of Christmas songs, they are fun to sing and have great melodies and were obviously written to inspire. As long as they have no religious content, they should be allowed. Any mention of Jesus or any other religious figure, they have to go.

That is not promoting atheism, it is just not promoting religion. Students are not taught that atheism is true or that religion is false.

Mattb

2018-12-04 00:03:40 UTC

On Mon, 3 Dec 2018 15:28:43 -0800 (PST), Cloud Hobbit

Post by Cloud Hobbit

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

yeah I can see how promoting a neutral state would be dangerous.... it
may even be flammable

That isn't neutral that is beyond that point to promoting only atheist
thought in schools.

No, it isn't. It's not promoting any belief system including atheism.
I am totally against teaching religion in schools

Post by Mattb
but people have sang these songs for centuries.

Which has no bearing on the legality of performing them in a public school.

Post by Mattb
The kids should vote on it because leaving them out might be offensive
to some.

Kids are there to learn, it isn't a democracy. The schools can't risk violating the federal law that prevents them from advocating for any religion. They risk the loss of much money that would be spent in defense of their actions in court and funding from the feds.
There is always going to be someone willing to go to court over this issue.
Personally, I like a lot of Christmas songs, they are fun to sing and have great melodies and were obviously written to inspire. As long as they have no religious content, they should be allowed. Any mention of Jesus or any other religious figure, they have to go.

Been listening to some today and there is still quite a few that could
be done in school.

Post by Cloud Hobbit
That is not promoting atheism, it is just not promoting religion. Students are not taught that atheism is true or that religion is false.

I do support a very basic teaching of all the religions so people know
a very little about each. This would be a hard thing to do and be
acceptable to all.

NoBody

2018-12-04 11:26:09 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

yeah I can see how promoting a neutral state would be dangerous.... it
may even be flammable

That isn't neutral that is beyond that point to promoting only atheist
thought in schools. I am totally against teaching religion in schools
but people have sang these songs for centuries.
The kids should vote on it because leaving them out might be offensive
to some.

No one cares about the kids who are banned by being left out. It's
all about the *religion* of atheism. Of course, if you wanted to do a
Muslim song, you'd probably be required to write a research paper on
the origins of the song...

Mattb

2018-12-04 19:05:27 UTC

So you are saying only atheism should be allowed? Wouldn't it be
against the constitution of the USA for schools to promote atheism?

yeah I can see how promoting a neutral state would be dangerous.... it
may even be flammable

That isn't neutral that is beyond that point to promoting only atheist
thought in schools. I am totally against teaching religion in schools
but people have sang these songs for centuries.
The kids should vote on it because leaving them out might be offensive
to some.

They could remove the word Jesus from the concert and still perform
the majority of traditional songs. If they are also required to
remove the word Christmas that is a different matter. Then again in a
few years someone will be offended it is called a Christmas concert.
In the end the liberals will control us all through the words
political correctness, then the new Hitler or Stalin will arrive.

BTW this ***@m.nu is a militant atheist and as hate filled as any
extreme right wing Christian or Islamic fundamentalist.

tesla sTinker

2018-12-03 04:20:33 UTC

Your a communist fucking prick, that needs his head blown off, and does
not belong in the United States of America. Same as the fucking prick in
Rome calling himself a Francis

b***@m.nu

2018-12-03 13:16:08 UTC

On Sun, 02 Dec 2018 20:20:33 -0800, tesla sTinker

Post by tesla sTinker
Your a communist fucking prick, that needs his head blown off, and does
not belong in the United States of America. Same as the fucking prick in
Rome calling himself a Francis

you sound like a christian which is otherwise known as a catholic...
you should be sucking the dick of the pope not chastising it

Rod

2018-12-03 03:58:48 UTC

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence

They can still do this on private grounds and church grounds,
but no religion should be taught in schools. Religious education
begins at home.

Pull the kids out of public schools and send them to private
schools or home school. I'm for cutting the funds to public education
and restructuring the curriculum to exclude Islamic and homosexual
education programs.

This way the parents can get more control over what is being
taught to their kids.

Mattb

2018-12-03 17:53:51 UTC

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence

They can still do this on private grounds and church grounds,
but no religion should be taught in schools. Religious education
begins at home.
Pull the kids out of public schools and send them to private
schools or home school. I'm for cutting the funds to public education
and restructuring the curriculum to exclude Islamic and homosexual
education programs.
This way the parents can get more control over what is being
taught to their kids.

You consider singing Christmas some or hearing them to be promoting
religion? Well I can see the next step banning Christmas music on the
radio in store and soon from the Internet. All in the name of being
politically correct.

I'm all for there being no prayer in schools and no teaching of
religion other than a basic review. I'd also like the Pledge of
allegiance returned to it's ordinal words.

Right before the next election this should be made a issue and see
what happens. I just don't consider sing those songs to be promoting
a religion as I've gone to the concerts before and really did come
away thinking about Jesus. More Santa and good spirits. Then you go
to the Mall the next day and see the true meaning of Christmas greed
and being assholes.

.

Patrick

2018-12-03 18:08:43 UTC

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence

They can still do this on private grounds and church grounds,
but no religion should be taught in schools. Religious education
begins at home.
Pull the kids out of public schools and send them to private
schools or home school. I'm for cutting the funds to public education
and restructuring the curriculum to exclude Islamic and homosexual
education programs.
This way the parents can get more control over what is being
taught to their kids.

I already see it at Christmas Concerts.
It seems they don't want to offend people so they don't play the songs
that mention Jesus, God, or anything similar. I don't like to go to
the USAF Band Christmas Concerts anymore.

Post by Mattb
I'm all for there being no prayer in schools and no teaching of
religion other than a basic review. I'd also like the Pledge of
allegiance returned to it's ordinal words.

"Under God" has been in the pledge for 60+ years.

Post by Mattb
Right before the next election this should be made a issue and see
what happens. I just don't consider sing those songs to be promoting
a religion as I've gone to the concerts before and really did come
away thinking about Jesus. More Santa and good spirits. Then you go
to the Mall the next day and see the true meaning of Christmas greed
and being assholes.

True. Black Friday was a good example of the "Christmas Spirit."

Kevrob

2018-12-03 18:21:01 UTC

Post by Mattb
I'm all for there being no prayer in schools and no teaching of
religion other than a basic review. I'd also like the Pledge of
allegiance returned to it's ordinal words.

"Under God" has been in the pledge for 60+ years.

It could be there 160+ years. It still wouldn't have made
that change right, nor the "In Ghod We Trust" motto, either.

Give me, "E Pluribus Unum" and "Liberty" on the money, anyday.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Kevrob

2018-12-03 18:18:51 UTC

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence

They can still do this on private grounds and church grounds,
but no religion should be taught in schools. Religious education
begins at home.
Pull the kids out of public schools and send them to private
schools or home school. I'm for cutting the funds to public education
and restructuring the curriculum to exclude Islamic and homosexual
education programs.
This way the parents can get more control over what is being
taught to their kids.

You consider singing Christmas some or hearing them to be promoting
religion? Well I can see the next step banning Christmas music on the
radio in store

Is that a store owned by the government?

Post by Mattb
and soon from the Internet.

The Internet is a combination of sources, government and private.
For government websites, maybe religious content isn't appropriate,
as per the US 1st Amendment?

Post by Mattb
All in the name of being politically correct.
I'm all for there being no prayer in schools and no teaching of
religion other than a basic review. I'd also like the Pledge of
allegiance returned to it's ordinal words.
Right before the next election this should be made a issue and see
what happens. >

Fat chance. Politicians stick to the BOMFOG script, even if they
aren't big believers, or any kind of believer.

Post by Mattb
I just don't consider sing those songs to be promoting
a religion as I've gone to the concerts before and really did come
away thinking about Jesus. More Santa and good spirits. Then you go
to the Mall the next day and see the true meaning of Christmas greed
and being assholes.

I like to listen to taditional carols, even ones with religious lyrics,
because they are art. They can be employed as pro-religious propaganda.
Ever hear a "Moral Majority" type take off on the secular holiday
songs, complaining that people who sing them are ignoring "the reason
for the season." It really can be about everyone celebrating THEIR
way.

Where's my KEEP SATURN IN THE SATURNALIA T-shirt? :)

Oh, here it is!

https://www.cafepress.com/mf/102430731/keep-saturn-in-saturnalia_tshirt?productId=1695966295

..or, this one:

https://www.cafepress.com/mf/94341497/sol-invictus-christmas_baseball-jersey?productId=1434722545

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Christopher A. Lee

2018-12-03 18:25:26 UTC

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence

They can still do this on private grounds and church grounds,
but no religion should be taught in schools. Religious education
begins at home.
Pull the kids out of public schools and send them to private
schools or home school. I'm for cutting the funds to public education
and restructuring the curriculum to exclude Islamic and homosexual
education programs.
This way the parents can get more control over what is being
taught to their kids.

You consider singing Christmas some or hearing them to be promoting
religion? Well I can see the next step banning Christmas music on the
radio in store

Is that a store owned by the government?

Post by Mattb
and soon from the Internet.

The Internet is a combination of sources, government and private.
For government websites, maybe religious content isn't appropriate,
as per the US 1st Amendment?

Fat chance. Politicians stick to the BOMFOG script, even if they
aren't big believers, or any kind of believer.

I had to look that one up.

Kevrob

2018-12-03 18:32:10 UTC

Post by Christopher A. Lee

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence

They can still do this on private grounds and church grounds,
but no religion should be taught in schools. Religious education
begins at home.
Pull the kids out of public schools and send them to private
schools or home school. I'm for cutting the funds to public education
and restructuring the curriculum to exclude Islamic and homosexual
education programs.
This way the parents can get more control over what is being
taught to their kids.

You consider singing Christmas some or hearing them to be promoting
religion? Well I can see the next step banning Christmas music on the
radio in store

Is that a store owned by the government?

Post by Mattb
and soon from the Internet.

The Internet is a combination of sources, government and private.
For government websites, maybe religious content isn't appropriate,
as per the US 1st Amendment?

Fat chance. Politicians stick to the BOMFOG script, even if they
aren't big believers, or any kind of believer.

I had to look that one up.

I've referenced Rocky's infamous phrase and its initialismbefore:

"what Nelson Rockefeller referred to in his stump speeches as BOMFOG:

http://logophilius.blogspot.com/2016/02/a-new-old-word-for-political-season.html "

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Mattb

2018-12-03 18:31:57 UTC

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence

They can still do this on private grounds and church grounds,
but no religion should be taught in schools. Religious education
begins at home.
Pull the kids out of public schools and send them to private
schools or home school. I'm for cutting the funds to public education
and restructuring the curriculum to exclude Islamic and homosexual
education programs.
This way the parents can get more control over what is being
taught to their kids.

You consider singing Christmas some or hearing them to be promoting
religion? Well I can see the next step banning Christmas music on the
radio in store

Is that a store owned by the government?

Post by Mattb
and soon from the Internet.

The Internet is a combination of sources, government and private.
For government websites, maybe religious content isn't appropriate,
as per the US 1st Amendment?

Fat chance. Politicians stick to the BOMFOG script, even if they
aren't big believers, or any kind of believer.

We are talking about school boards here not Senators.

I like the secular songs also. I just like Christmas music

Post by Kevrob
Where's my KEEP SATURN IN THE SATURNALIA T-shirt? :)
Oh, here it is!
https://www.cafepress.com/mf/102430731/keep-saturn-in-saturnalia_tshirt?productId=1695966295

I like that one am arguing with Patrick about that being the true Dec
25th. He really hates the idea the Bible, if these fundies would read
there own book, would make Christmas in the spring.

Christmas is actually a mix of Pagan holidays. Really pisses the
fundies off.

Post by Kevrob
https://www.cafepress.com/mf/94341497/sol-invictus-christmas_baseball-jersey?productId=1434722545

There is also claims it was the birthday of Mithras.

The again we have proof today that Church leaders are good at bending
and hiding truths just look at the pedophilia problem. Then again
being able to kill any who disagreed for 500 plus years did help them.
Bet the pedophile lovers hate they no longer have that power.

Post by Kevrob
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Mattb

2018-12-03 20:48:06 UTC

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence

They can still do this on private grounds and church grounds,
but no religion should be taught in schools. Religious education
begins at home.
Pull the kids out of public schools and send them to private
schools or home school. I'm for cutting the funds to public education
and restructuring the curriculum to exclude Islamic and homosexual
education programs.
This way the parents can get more control over what is being
taught to their kids.

You consider singing Christmas some or hearing them to be promoting
religion? Well I can see the next step banning Christmas music on the
radio in store

Is that a store owned by the government?

Post by Mattb
and soon from the Internet.

The Internet is a combination of sources, government and private.
For government websites, maybe religious content isn't appropriate,
as per the US 1st Amendment?

Well in the name of being politically correct give that a decade or
more.

Fat chance. Politicians stick to the BOMFOG script, even if they
aren't big believers, or any kind of believer.

Freemasons concept is hated by many Fundies.

I like to listen to taditional carols, even ones with religious lyrics,
because they are art. They can be employed as pro-religious propaganda.
Ever hear a "Moral Majority" type take off on the secular holiday
songs, complaining that people who sing them are ignoring "the reason
for the season." It really can be about everyone celebrating THEIR
way.
Where's my KEEP SATURN IN THE SATURNALIA T-shirt? :)
Oh, here it is!
https://www.cafepress.com/mf/102430731/keep-saturn-in-saturnalia_tshirt?productId=1695966295
https://www.cafepress.com/mf/94341497/sol-invictus-christmas_baseball-jersey?productId=1434722545
---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Rod

2018-12-04 18:50:58 UTC

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence

They can still do this on private grounds and church grounds,
but no religion should be taught in schools. Religious education
begins at home.
Pull the kids out of public schools and send them to private
schools or home school. I'm for cutting the funds to public education
and restructuring the curriculum to exclude Islamic and homosexual
education programs.
This way the parents can get more control over what is being
taught to their kids.

You consider singing Christmas some or hearing them to be promoting
religion?

Yes. Hannuku carols, Muslim call you prayer music, Gregorian chants
and other religious tunes. The idea is to prevent conflict within
the schools, not to stifle religious faith.

Post by Mattb
Well I can see the next step banning Christmas music on the
radio in store and soon from the Internet. All in the name of being
politically correct.

Bull! Those are privately funded organizations and unlikely
to happen.

Post by Mattb
I'm all for there being no prayer in schools and no teaching of
religion other than a basic review. I'd also like the Pledge of
allegiance returned to it's ordinal words.
Right before the next election this should be made a issue and see
what happens. I just don't consider sing those songs to be promoting
a religion as I've gone to the concerts before and really did come
away thinking about Jesus. More Santa and good spirits. Then you go
to the Mall the next day and see the true meaning of Christmas greed
and being assholes.
.

That is because the parents do not stress or understand
the philosophy behind religious education! They end up with
mouthy, infantile pukes for children like bilgat!

Mattb

2018-12-04 19:52:09 UTC

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence

They can still do this on private grounds and church grounds,
but no religion should be taught in schools. Religious education
begins at home.
Pull the kids out of public schools and send them to private
schools or home school. I'm for cutting the funds to public education
and restructuring the curriculum to exclude Islamic and homosexual
education programs.
This way the parents can get more control over what is being
taught to their kids.

You consider singing Christmas some or hearing them to be promoting
religion?

Yes. Hannuku carols, Muslim call you prayer music, Gregorian chants
and other religious tunes. The idea is to prevent conflict within
the schools, not to stifle religious faith.

The they should not accommodate Muslims either.

Post by Mattb
Well I can see the next step banning Christmas music on the
radio in store and soon from the Internet. All in the name of being
politically correct.

Bull! Those are privately funded organizations and unlikely
to happen.

Unlikely? A few years ago I would have said it was unlikely
conservative comedians would be banned form publicly owned
Universities or from the threat of violence from private places.

The media even lied for a time saying that Milo gut was a racist and
religious right wing. Turned out he was gay with a black lover.

That is because the parents do not stress or understand
the philosophy behind religious education! They end up with
mouthy, infantile pukes for children like bilgat!

Maybe like Stalin?

Been checking thing out there are still many traditional songs that do
not use the word Jesus they can use.

Since this was a official complaint they should name the person or
people that complained.

m***@gmail.com

2018-12-07 06:42:48 UTC

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence

They can still do this on private grounds and church grounds,
but no religion should be taught in schools. Religious education
begins at home.
Pull the kids out of public schools and send them to private
schools or home school. I'm for cutting the funds to public education
and restructuring the curriculum to exclude Islamic and homosexual
education programs.
This way the parents can get more control over what is being
taught to their kids.

That isn't always a good thing. Some parents like keeping their children ignorant. That gives them more control over them that they shouldn't have.
Children aren't their parents' slaves.

tesla sTinker

2018-12-03 04:14:39 UTC

what a bunch of idiot ignorant liars. It would be against the US
Constitution to deny the declaration of independence, which declares,
that the ten commandments of Almighty God, be obeyed of for the US
Constitution, which in turn, declares atheism
as an unjustified religion of course. And believe me, everyone knows
this, including the athiest themselves.

Cloud Hobbit

2018-12-03 05:07:12 UTC

Post by tesla sTinker
what a bunch of idiot ignorant liars. It would be against the US
Constitution to deny the declaration of independence, which declares,
that the ten commandments of Almighty God, be obeyed of for the US
Constitution, which in turn, declares atheism
as an unjustified religion of course. And believe me, everyone knows
this, including the athiest themselves.

How could anybody know something you just made up?

Kevrob

2018-12-03 05:52:10 UTC

Post by Mattb
School bans Christmas carols containing word "Jesus" amid fears they
may cause offence
https://www.irishpost.com/news/school-bans-christmas-carols-160757
A SCHOOL ....

..a GOVERNMENT school....

Post by Mattb
has come under fire after students were told they would not
be singing any carols that include the word "Jesus" this Christmas.
Pupils at Robious Middle School in THE us have been told they won't be
singing any songs representing Jesus due to the "sacred nature" of
Christ.
That's according to a series of emails written by the Virginia
school's chorus teacher to concerned parent David Allen, which was
subsequently passed on to NBC12.
"We had a few students who weren't comfortable singing a piece I have
done many times in the past, but it is of a sacred nature and does
mention Jesus," one of the emails explains.
After meeting with school administrators, the school opted against
singing any carols of a directly sacred nature in an attempt at being
more sensitive to the school's diverse population.

This troll doesn't know there is NO text in the D of I that requires
adherence to the Abrahamic decalogue. Nor does the US Constitution
mandate atheism, state or otherwise. It only precludes state support for
one sect over others, or for religion over irreligion. It likewise
forbids promoting atheism over religion. It is about neutrality.

Here's the story from the Virginia TV station.

https://www.nbc12.com/2018/10/10/christmas-songs-with-jesus-excluded-winter-concert/

Post by Mattb
Question are people required to sing or attend these concerts?
Is a belief system being pushed here?

Is tax money being used to heat the auditorium, pay the choir
master/mistress, etc? The entire community, including those who
do not consider the mythical birthday of the mythical Josh of
importance to their own religion, or lack thereof, has to pay for
these pageants, unless they operate on donations.

Student-initiated expressions of faith are allowed in govt schools,
as in the "meet at the flagpole" prayer movement. Teacher-led
and organized prayer was struck down in the early 1960s. An Irish
paper might not realize the niceties of US constitutional law.
Irish schools, including state schools, are largely denominational,
with ones run by churches getting state funding.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denominational_education_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland

I was a member of my parish's choir, sang in church on
Sundays, and the group was invited to sing carols on
several occasions at local venues outside of church,
including the local parochial school I attended, and at
local stores during the Christmas holiday season. Many
of the carols we sang were religious. This was completely
appropriate for a religious parish school. It would not
be for a state-funded educational institution.

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

b***@m.nu

2018-12-03 13:21:26 UTC

On Sun, 02 Dec 2018 20:14:39 -0800, tesla sTinker

Hey moron.. Mr top poster... are you a whiney little bitch??? First
off it would not be against the constitution and second there is no
god, third humans invented the ten commandments not a magical fairy.
Fourth the declaration of independence declares no such thing. Fifth
you really should seek some form of education to really help you out
with that total moron problem that you seem to have. And lastly it
sounds like you and hitler would have made great bedfellows.

Jews = Eternal Conspirators

2018-12-03 18:11:10 UTC

Post by Mattb
Question are people required to sing or attend these concerts?
Is a belief system being pushed here?

Are you thinking loud or are those questions really from you?
THUC U! You once said that the Constitution trumped God because, as you put it, we were in a secular democracy and NO God was needed.

L.Roberts

2018-12-07 01:09:36 UTC

Personally, I don't believe that public schools should be dispensing
anything that is so clearly an element of somebody's religious stupidity.

The fucking U.S. Government should not be dispensing, nor in any way
aiding and abetting, the purveyors of ignorance, the church.

Mattb

2018-12-07 03:49:25 UTC