Aristocratic deaths, July, 2003

[Michael Rhodes]

The Hon Bride Faith Louisa Berry (nee Cottesloe), who was b. 1 July,
1910, 3rd daguhter of the 3rd Baron Cottesloe, died 2 July, 2003, aged
93. She married in 1936, John Berry (landed gentry), and leaves issue.

--

Michael Rhodes

[Michael Rhodes]

Jill Primrose Twentyman Pellew (nee Davis) wife since 1957 of Myles
Addington Pellew, of the Viscounts Exmouth, died 2 July, 2003; the
mother of Simon, Alexandra and Miranda. She was the yst daughter of
Capt Alfred Maurice Davis, OBE, of London SW3. Her husband (b. 1919)
is a gt-gt-gt-grandson of Admiral the 1st Viscount Exmouth
(1757-1833).

--

Michael Rhodes

[dominique.charenton]

Do we know anything about a Countess Kapnist ? The Telegraph death
notices reveals that one Olga Villiers (nee Countess Kapnist) died 4
July, 2003, wife of the late George (Villiers?) and mother of Alexis
and Anne.

******************

Alexis Pavlovitch KAPNIST

[ fils de Pavel Alexeivitch comte KAPNIST (1842-1904) et de Emilia
Alexievna LOPOUKHINE (1848-1904) ]

né le 17 05 1871

épouse Olga Constantinovna LISCHINE


d'où 5 enfants :


-1- Dmitri, décédé en 1975 à Créteil (France)

-2- Pavel

-3- Emilie, née en 1908
épouse en 1929 le comte Dmitri Sergueevitch Tatistchev

-4- Serguei

-5- OLGA = Olga Villiers ?



sources utilisées :

* Ikonnikov, La noblesse de Russie, volume Y1, 1965, article Kapnist

* Almanach de St Pétersbourg 1913/1914 page 268 article Alexis Pavlovitch
Kapnist



dominique

***@wanadoo.fr

[Andrey Frizyuk]

Post by dominique.charenton

Do we know anything about a Countess Kapnist ? The Telegraph death
notices reveals that one Olga Villiers (nee Countess Kapnist) died 4
July, 2003, wife of the late George (Villiers?) and mother of Alexis
and Anne.

******************
Alexis Pavlovitch KAPNIST
[ fils de Pavel Alexeivitch comte KAPNIST (1842-1904) et de Emilia
Alexievna LOPOUKHINE (1848-1904) ]
né le 17 05 1871
épouse Olga Constantinovna LISCHINE
-1- Dmitri, décédé en 1975 à Créteil (France)
-2- Pavel
-3- Emilie, née en 1908
épouse en 1929 le comte Dmitri Sergueevitch Tatistchev
-4- Serguei
-5- OLGA = Olga Villiers ?

Count Alexei Pavlovich Kapnist (a great grandson of the Ukrainian
writer) is known as the last owner of the Razumovsky House on the
Tverskaya Street, near the Moscow Kremlin. This is the house famed as
a meeting place of the so-called English Club, an exclusive society of
Russian aristocrats.

His mother, Emilia Alexeievna Lopukhina (29.2.1848 - 19.10.1904) was
the daughter of Alexei Alexandrovich Lopukhin (29.9.1813 - 9.12.1872)
by Pss Varvara Alexandrovna Obolenskaya (10.1.1819 - 20.7.1873).

So, if Dominique's hypothesis is true, then Olga Villiers was
connected with major families of Russian aristocracy through the
Lopukhins, Obolenskys, and Trubetskoys.

Best wishes, Andrey

[Igor Sklar]

Post by dominique.charenton
Alexis Pavlovitch KAPNIST
[ fils de Pavel Alexeivitch comte KAPNIST (1842-1904) et de Emilia
Alexievna LOPOUKHINE (1848-1904) ]
né le 17 05 1871
épouse Olga Constantinovna LISCHINE

Alexis was executed by Bolsheviks 31 January 1918 at Pyatigorsk. He
was counter-admiral, Chairman of the Naval General Staff (1914), and
the Poltava marshal of nobility.

regards

[Michael Rhodes]

Lord Grimthorpe, OBE, DL, the fourth Baron, soldier, company director,
landowner, peer of the turf, died 6 July, 2003, aged 87.

Lord Grimthorpe, of Westow Hall, near York, had a distinguished
military career, retiring from the Army in 1968 as a Brigadier. He was
deputy commander of Malta and Libya from 1964-67 and served as an ADC
to the Queen.

He was Colonel Commanding 9th Queen's Royal Lancers, 1955-58, Colonel
9th/12th Lancers (PWO) from 1973, Brigadier Royal Armoured Corps
Western Command, 1961-64, and served as a Deputy Lieutenant for North
Yorkshire from 1969.

Christopher John Beckett was born 16 September, 1915, eldest son of
the 3rd Lord Grimthorpe, TD, (1891-1963), a partner in the banking
firm of Beckett and Co., of Leeds, Yorkshire, by his first wife, Mary
Alice, daughter of Colonel Mervyn Archdale, 12th Lancers.

Christopher Beckett was educated at Eton.

He succeeded his father as fourth Baron and eighth Baronet, 1963.

Lord Grimthorpe was a director of Thirsk Race Committee, and was a
member of the Jockey Club.

His father, of Easthorpe Hall, Malton, ran a stud in North Yorkshire
where he - and his second wife Angela -bred Fragrant Mac which won the
Scottish Grand National in 1952. The best horse they owned however was
Fortina, winner of the 1947 Cheltenham Gold Cup.

He also served as a consultant and sales respresentative with Sir
Alfred McAlpine and Son Ltd.

In 1973 he joined the board of Yorkshire Post Newspapers where his
uncle, the Hon Rupert Beckett, had been chairman for 30 years,
1920-50.

In February, 1954, he married Lady Elizabeth Lumley, daughter of the
Earl of Scarbrough, Lord Chamberlain to the Queen.

The wedding took place at the Queen's Chapel, Marlborough Gate,
sometimes called the Marlborough House Chapel, by special permission
of the sovereign, and the wedding reception took place at St James's
Palace. Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, Princess Margaret, & the
Duchess of Gloucester attended.

In 1973 Lady Grimthorpe joined the household of the Queen Mother as a
Lady of the Bedchamber, and remained in that post at Clarence House
until the death of Her Majesty last year.

Lord Grimthorpe was appointed OBE (military) in 1958.

He is survived by Lady Grimthorpe, two sons, Edward John and Ralph
Daniel, and a daughter, Harriet.

The peerage and baronetcy now devolve upon the elder son, Edward, born
20 November, 1954, who married in May, 1992, Mrs Carey Elisabeth
McEwen, daughter of Mr & Mrs Robin Graham, by whom he has a son &
heir, born 28 April, 1993.

A private funeral is followed by a thanksgiving service on Wednesday
16 July, 2003, at York Minster.

--

Michael Rhodes

[Andrey Frizyuk]

Do we know anything about a Countess Kapnist ?

It would have been great if you mentioned her patronimic. She could be
a daughter/sister of Count Alexei Petrovich Kapnist (1916-93) who is
buried on Ste Genevieve des Bois in Paris. The Kapnists (original
name: Capnissi) obtained their comital title in the Venetian Republic
17-Jan-1702.

All best wishes, Andrey

[Michael Rhodes]

Post by Andrey Frizyuk

Do we know anything about a Countess Kapnist ?

It would have been great if you mentioned her patronimic. She could be
a daughter/sister of Count Alexei Petrovich Kapnist (1916-93) who is
buried on Ste Genevieve des Bois in Paris. The Kapnists (original
name: Capnissi) obtained their comital title in the Venetian Republic
17-Jan-1702.
All best wishes, Andrey

Thanks. But the Telegraph notice merely said Olga Villiers (nee
Countess Kapnist). Would a daughter or sister of the abovementioned
Count Alexei have also been a Countess ?

--

Michael

[Andrey Frizyuk]

Post by Michael Rhodes

Post by Andrey Frizyuk

Do we know anything about a Countess Kapnist ?

It would have been great if you mentioned her patronimic. She could be
a daughter/sister of Count Alexei Petrovich Kapnist (1916-93) who is
buried on Ste Genevieve des Bois in Paris. The Kapnists (original
name: Capnissi) obtained their comital title in the Venetian Republic
17-Jan-1702.
All best wishes, Andrey

Thanks. But the Telegraph notice merely said Olga Villiers (nee
Countess Kapnist). Would a daughter or sister of the abovementioned
Count Alexei have also been a Countess ?

Of course she would have been a Countess, like all male-line
descendants of Stomatello Capnissi who obtained the title in 1702. In
Russian sources they are mistakenly discribed as 'counts of the
Italian Kingdom': they were recognized as such by the Russian
authorities in 1876 and 1877.

The most illustrious member of the family, Count Vasili Kapnist
(12.2.1758, Obukhovka - 28.10.1823, Kibinzy), is regarded as the first
satiric poet in the Ukrainian literature. His son Count Ivan Kapnist
(1798-1860) was the Governor of Smolensk, then of Moscow; three of his
grandsons were senators. Another line of the family descends from the
marriage of Count Piotr Mikhailovich Kapnist with Catherine
d'Allonville, granddaughter of the famous Field-Marshal Munich.
Representatives of this line are living in Venice.

regards

[e***@gmail.com]

Olga Villers (nee Kapnist) was my grandmother. Her father was Count Alexei Kapnist but died sometime after 1919 in Ukraine. I'm researching the journey my grandmother and her family took through Europe after fleeing their home in 1919.
Emma Towers

[Michael Rhodes]

The 3rd & last Viscount Greenwood, an actor, who had a career on the
stage, in films and television, died 7 July, 2003. He was 80. Lord
Greenwood, who was unmarried, was second son of the 1st Viscount, and
inherited the viscountcy, barony and baronetcy in July, 1998, on the
demise of his elder brother.

--

Michael Rhodes

[Pierre Aronax]

Post by Michael Rhodes
The 3rd & last Viscount Greenwood, an actor, who had a career on the
stage, in films and television, died 7 July, 2003. He was 80. Lord
Greenwood, who was unmarried, was second son of the 1st Viscount, and
inherited the viscountcy, barony and baronetcy in July, 1998, on the
demise of his elder brother.

Are also the barony and baronetcy extinct?

Pierre

[Michael Rhodes]

Post by Pierre Aronax

Post by Michael Rhodes
The 3rd & last Viscount Greenwood, an actor, who had a career on the
stage, in films and television, died 7 July, 2003. He was 80. Lord
Greenwood, who was unmarried, was second son of the 1st Viscount, and
inherited the viscountcy, barony and baronetcy in July, 1998, on the
demise of his elder brother.

Are also the barony and baronetcy extinct?
Pierre

Yes - both were created for (Thomas) Hamar Greenwood, and he left two
sons - the 2nd and 3rd Viscounts - both were unmarried.

--

Michael Rhodes

[Pierre Aronax]

Post by Andrey Frizyuk

Do we know anything about a Countess Kapnist ?

It would have been great if you mentioned her patronimic. She could be
a daughter/sister of Count Alexei Petrovich Kapnist (1916-93) who is
buried on Ste Genevieve des Bois in Paris. The Kapnists (original
name: Capnissi) obtained their comital title in the Venetian Republic
17-Jan-1702.

They can have received the title from the Venetian Republic but not in the
Venetian Republic: Venetian patricians had no title (at list as Venetian
patricians). But titles were given to nobles of the subject cities and
countries. What was the origin of the Capnissi exactly?

Pierre

[Michael Rhodes]

The Countess of Castle Stewart, wife of the 8th Earl of Castle
Stewart, of Stuart Hall, Stewartstown, County Tyrone, died 5 July,
2003, aged 83.

Lady Castle Stewart's husband is 8th earl in the peerage of Ireland
(created 1800); Viscount Castle Stuart (created 1793, Ireland); Baron
Castle Stewart, 1619, peerage of Ireland; & 15th Baronet (created 1628
- Nova Scotia).

She was Edna, daughter of William Edward Fowler, of Harborne,
Birmingham, and married in 1952, the then Arthur Patrick Avondale
Stuart, styled Viscount Stuart, a lieutenant in the Scot Guards, son
and heir of the 7th Earl of Castle Stewart, (1889-1961) by his wife
Eleanor May, daughter of Solomon R. Guggenheim, of New York, USA.

Her husband succeeded to the family honours, in 1961.

The Countess is survived by her husband, and by a son, Andrew,
Viscount Stuart, and a daughter, Lady Bridget.

-- Michael Rhodes

[Michael Rhodes]

Baroness Clark of Kempston, wife of the life peer Baron Clark of
Kempston, died 7 July, 2003, aged 85.

The 6th Marquess of Salisbury died 11 July, 2003, aged 86, and was
succeeded by his son, Viscount Cranborne, who was b. 30 Sept, 1946.

--

Michael Rhodes

[Michael Rhodes]

Patience Mary Cholmeley, who died 9 July, 2003, was the wife of the
late Brigadier Laurence Norman Cholmeley, CBE (of the landed family
Cholmeley, formerly of Riversdown), and was daughter of Charles
Swinton Williamson, of Arborfield Grange, Berkshire. She m. in 1936,
and leaves issue (i)Robert,(ii)Toby, (iii) Phillida.

--

Michael Rhodes

[Michael Rhodes]

Lady Croft, who died 9 July, 2003, aged 80, was the widow of Maj Sir
John Croft, 5th Bt, and mother of the 6th Bt.

Aydua Scott-Elliot, CVO, FSA, Keeper of the Prints & Drawings, Royal
Library, Windsor Castle, 1946-69, died 9 July, 2003. She was 93.

Aydua Helen Scott-Elliot was born 11 December, 1909, the daughter of
Lewis Alexander Scott-Elliot and Princess Eydua Odescalchi, and was
educated at St Paul's Girls' School and abroad.

Career: Temporary Assistant Civilian Officer, Admiralty, 1941-46;
Keeper of the Prints & Drawings, Royal Library, Windsor Castle,
1946-69.

Miss Scott-Elliot was appointed MVO in 1958; and advanced to CVO on
her retirement in 1970. She never married.

Patience Mary Cholmeley, who died 9 July, 2003, was the widow of
Brigadier Laurence Norman Cholmeley, CBE, (of the landed family
Cholmeley), and leaves issue, Robert, Toby and Phillida.

--

Michael Rhodes

[Michael Rhodes]

Judith Countess of Listowel, widow of the 5th Earl, died 15 July,
2003, three days after her 100th birthday. She was Judith, daughter of
Raoul de Marffy-Mantuano, of Budapest, & was b. 12 July, 1903. She m.
1933 (as his first wife), the 5th Earl of Listowel, GCMG, PC,
(1906-97), a Minister in Attlee's Govt, & Gov-Gen & C-in-C of Ghana.
Lord Listowel was "Father" of the House of Lords, who clocked up over
60 actrivity in the Upper House. He made his maiden speech, 15 March,
1932, from the opposition benches (he was one of only six opposition
peers then).

She was divorced in 1945, having had one daughter. She is survived by
that daughter, the Dowager Baroness Grantley.

--

Michael Rhodes

[Michael Rhodes]

Post by Michael Rhodes
Judith Countess of Listowel, widow of the 5th Earl, died 15 July,
2003, three days after her 100th birthday. She was Judith, daughter of
Raoul de Marffy-Mantuano, of Budapest, & was b. 12 July, 1903. She m.
1933 (as his first wife), the 5th Earl of Listowel, GCMG, PC,
(1906-97), a Minister in Attlee's Govt, & Gov-Gen & C-in-C of Ghana.
Lord Listowel was "Father" of the House of Lords, who clocked up over
60 actrivity in the Upper House. He made his maiden speech, 15 March,
1932, from the opposition benches (he was one of only six opposition
peers then).
She was divorced in 1945, having had one daughter. She is survived by
that daughter, the Dowager Baroness Grantley.

CORRECTION: the daughter has swapped being Dowager Baroness Grantley
for Lady Deirdre Curteis.

[Michael Rhodes]

: Judith Countess of Listowel, widow of the 5th Earl, died 15 July,
: 2003, three days after her 100th birthday. She was Judith, daughter of
: Raoul de Marffy-Mantuano, of Budapest, & was b. 12 July, 1903. She m.
: 1933 (as his first wife), the 5th Earl of Listowel, GCMG, PC,
: (1906-97), a Minister in Attlee's Govt, & Gov-Gen & C-in-C of Ghana.
: Lord Listowel was "Father" of the House of Lords, who clocked up over
: 60 actrivity in the Upper House.
He may for some sessions have been the longest-serving member to
attend the House,but he was never formally the "Father"...the late
Lord Oranmore & Browne,who inherited his qualifying title of Lord
Mereworth in 1927 when already of adult age,retained his right to sit
until the House of Lords Act 1999.The Earl Haig,who inherited his
title before Lord Listowel but only came of age afterward,did sit
at times until the HoL Act...since the Act the "Father" has been
the Earl Jellicoe,who inherited in 1935,came of age in 1939,and
received a life peerage in 1999 in recognition of his having been
a former Leader of the Lords(he resigned in a sex scandal and became
Chairman of Tate & Lyle).
: He made his maiden speech, 15 March, 1932, from the opposition benches
: (he was one of only six opposition peers then).
Six Labour peers are six too many.:)
: She was divorced in 1945, having had one daughter. She is survived by
: that daughter, the Dowager Baroness Grantley.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

From the Times, March 15, 1982: "Honorary Father" --There is no Father
of the House of Lords, presumably because titular membership is no
indication of attendance or activity. Lord Romilly has been a peer for
77 years, since succeeding his father at the age of six in 1905, and
has yet to make his maiden speech.

Still, today the Earl of Listowel celebrates 50 years' activity in the
Upper House. He made his maiden speech on March 15, 1932, presumably
from the opposition front bench since he was, at that time, only one
of six opposition peers. He still takes an important part, and only
last week was presiding on the Woolsack. He was the older brother of
the Conservative former minister Lord Blakenham, who died a week ago,
and is, the father of the active Lords."

--

Michael Rhodes

[Michael Rhodes]

Lady Desmond Chichester, who died suddenly, 15 July, 2003, was the
widow of Major Lord Desmond Clive Chichester, MC, the Coldstream
Guards.

She was born in 1921 as Felicity Stella ("Dickie") Harrison, & was the
sixth daughter of Major John Fenwick Harrison, JP, DL, of the Royal
Horse Guards, of King's Walden Bury, Hitchin, Hertfordshire, and was a
granddaughter maternally of the 3rd Baron Burnham (1864-1943). Her
husband was a yr son of the 4th Baron Templemore, KCVO (1880-1953), &
a yr brother of the 5th Baron who, in 1975, succeeded as 7th Marquess
of Donegall. In 1977 her husband was raised to the rank of a
Marquess's son. She leaves one son, Dermot Chichester.

--

Michael Rhodes

[Shinjinee]

Post by Michael Rhodes
Lady Desmond Chichester, who died suddenly, 15 July, 2003, was the
widow of Major Lord Desmond Clive Chichester, MC, the Coldstream
Guards.
She was born in 1921 as Felicity Stella ("Dickie") Harrison, & was the
sixth daughter of Major John Fenwick Harrison, JP, DL, of the Royal
Horse Guards, of King's Walden Bury, Hitchin, Hertfordshire, and was a
granddaughter maternally of the 3rd Baron Burnham (1864-1943). Her
husband was a yr son of the 4th Baron Templemore, KCVO (1880-1953), &
a yr brother of the 5th Baron who, in 1975, succeeded as 7th Marquess
of Donegall. In 1977 her husband was raised to the rank of a
Marquess's son. She leaves one son, Dermot Chichester.

I forgot to mention in the thread "1960s Debrett" that she and her
sisters (including the Dowager Marchioness of Abergavenny, widow of
the 5th Marquess) are descendants of King James VI & I (via their
twice-married maternal grandmother, IIRC).


The former Sybil Mary Marshal (d. 3 May 1933) was the 1st dau. of Lt
Gen Sir Frederick Marshall KCMG. She married 1stly 1887 (div 1912)
the Hon. William Arnold Webster-Levy, later (1933) the 3rd Baron
Burnham [succ his brother the 1st and last Viscount), and 2ndly 1912
1912 the 2nd Baron Hamilton of Dalzell. Interestingly, her
great-niece by marriage Rosemary Coke (granddaughter maternally of the
2nd Baron and 1st and last Viscount Burnham) married her husband's
nephew and heir the 3rd Baron Hamilton of Dalzell. There was also an
interesting connection to the beauty Lillie Langtry via her first
husband's elder brother.

Descent from King Charles II
2.2.14.[illegitimate by Mary Davis] Mary Tudor (16 Oct 1673-Paris 5
Nov 1726); m.1st 18 Aug 1687 Edward Radclyffe, 2d Earl of Derwentwater
(d.1705); m.2d 23 May 1705 Henry Graham (d.7 Jan 1707); m.3d 26 Aug
1707 James Rooke
2.2.14.1.James Radclyffe, 3d Earl of Derwentwater, b.London 28 Jun
1689; participated in the '15, was attainted and then beheaded at
Tower Hill 24 Feb 1716; m.10 Jul 1712 Anna Maria Webb (d.Brussels 19
Aug 1723)
2.2.14.1.1.John Radclyffe, Viscount Radclyffe, d.London 31 Dec 1731
2.2.14.1.2. Lady Mary Radclyffe, d.31 Mar 1760; m.2 May 1732 Robert
James Petre, 8th Lord Petre (d.1742)
2.2.14.1.2.2.Hon.Catherine Petre, d.1783; m.18 Sep 1755 George Fieschi
Heneage, of Hainton (7 Aug 1730-21 Mar 1782)
2.2.14.1.2.2.1.George Robert Heneage, of Hainton, b.21 Dec 1768, d.16
Jun 1833; m.18 Aug 1798 Frances Anne Ainslie (d.13 Mar 1807) ->
ancestors of the Lords Heneage (ext 1967)
2.2.14.1.2.2.1.3.Frances Anne Heneage; m.11 Nov 1826 Edward Giles
Howard (d.17 Jun 1840) [parents of Edward Henry, Cardinal Howard]
2.2.14.1.2.2.1.3.5.Adelaide Laura Howard, d.15 Mar 1916; m.16 Dec 1861
Lt-Gen Sir Frederick Marshall (d.8 Jun 1900)
2.2.14.1.2.2.1.3.5.2.Sybil Mary Marshall, d.3 May 1933; m.1887 (div
1912) Hon William Arnold Webster Levy-Lawson [later, 3rd Lord Burnham]
(19 Mar 1864-14 Jun 1943)
2.2.14.1.2.2.1.3.5.2.1.Edward Frederick Levy-Lawson, 4th Lord Burnham
(16 Jun 1890-4 Jul 1963); m.28 Jan 1920 Marie Enid Robson (27 May
1894-29 Jul 1979); and had issue incl.
2.2.14.1.2.2.1.3.5.2.1.1.William Edward Harry Lawson, 5th Lord Burnham
(20 Oct 1920-18 Jun 1993); m.27 Jun 1942 Anne Petherick (b.13 May
1919) d 1998 IIRC maternal granddau of the 6th Earl of Radnor and
cousin to Anne, Dowager Marchioness of Aberdeen and Temair.
2.2.14.1.2.2.1.3.5.2.4.Olive Emily Levy-Lawson, d.2 Jul 1955; m.6 Sep
1916 Maj.John Edward Murray Smith (d.Apr 1928) -->issue

The children of the 3rd Baron Burnham by his former wife are listed in
a message on an earlier thread (for the sisters of the late Lady
Desmond Chichester and Lady Abergavenny).


Hope this rather long post helps out
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=John+Harrison+group:alt.talk.royalty+group:alt.talk.royalty+group:alt.talk.royalty&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&group=alt.talk.royalty&selm=3f0076cf%240%2412517%24a729d347%40news.telepac.pt&rnum=4

[BTW Lord Desmond Chichester d 7 Oct 2000 per Michael Rhodes and Edwin
King - his memorial service was mentioned on ATR. As far as I can
tell, he had one son by his first wife, who died, and then another son
by his 2nd Harrison wife who has died very recently.]

For one of Lady Abergavenny's descendants, see here
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=8f00a961.0202210401.63ea03c0%40posting.google.com&output=gplain

Shinjinee

For

[Michael Rhodes]

John Amyas Trevelyan, who died 12 July, 2003, aged 75, was a scion of
the Trevelyan Baronets (cr. 1662). He was married to the former
Patricia Mary Moore, and leaves issue, Elizabeth, Amyas, Oliver &
Rupert.

--

Michael Rhodes.

[Michael Rhodes]

Baron Perry of Walton, OBE, FRS, a lifer, former Vice-Chancellor of
the Open University, died 18 July, 2003. He was 82.

--

Michael Rhodes.

[Shinjinee]

Post by Michael Rhodes
Lord Grimthorpe, OBE, DL, the fourth Baron, soldier, company director,
Christopher John Beckett was born 16 September, 1915, eldest son of
the 3rd Lord Grimthorpe, TD, (1891-1963), a partner in the banking
firm of Beckett and Co., of Leeds, Yorkshire, by his first wife, Mary
Alice, daughter of Colonel Mervyn Archdale, 12th Lancers.

How is the late Lord Grimthorpe related to the late 3rd Marquess of
Zetland? IIRC both had mothers who were Archdales, daughters of a
Col. Mervyn Archdale. Were Cicely and Mary Alice sisters?

Shinjinee

[Michael Rhodes]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Michael Rhodes]

Post by Michael Rhodes
Susan Mary "Shoe" Guinness-Taylor, who died 17 July, 2003, was the
mistress of the third Baron Moyne, and mother of three of his
children, Diana, Aster and Tom. Shoe, a butcher's daughter, was
christened Susan Mary Taylor. Moyne met her in Spain in 1978, she had
left England to see the world inspired, curiously, by The Sound of
Music. What Shoe did next was not Rodgers amd Hammerstein. She rode a
hermaphrodite circus elephant in Lebanon, worked topless as the
"strongest woman in the world", did time in Holloway Prison for drugs
and suffered for a time from bulimia. In 1980 she became pregnant with
Moyne's child. She later lived in Cornwall, and Moyne paid for the
rent and upkeep of their three children. At some stage she assumed the
additional surname of Guinness before that of Taylor.

A link to some biographical details of Lord Moyne:-

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2001/02/11/story297026.asp


--

Michael Rhodes

[Michael Rhodes]

Prince Peter Dragadze has died at the age of 76. White Russian emigre?

The Funeral takes place on Monday 28 July, 2003, at the Russian
Orthodox Church, Ennismore Gardens, Knightsbridge, London SW7.

Post by Michael Rhodes
-- Michael Rhodes

[Michael Rhodes]

I don't know the family, but the name looks Georgian to me.

At this website a certain Princess Tamara Dragadze is described as a
member of the Royal House of Georgia (the family of the last Empress)
and that the Dragadze family compares with the Bourbons as one of the
oldest families in Europe.


http://www.hotgossip.co.uk/99may/social.html

Post by Michael Rhodes
Prince Peter Dragadze has died at the age of 76. White Russian emigre?
The Funeral takes place on Monday 28 July, 2003, at the Russian
Orthodox Church, Ennismore Gardens, Knightsbridge, London SW7.

Post by Michael Rhodes
-- Michael Rhodes

[Andrey Frizyuk]

Post by Michael Rhodes
http://www.hotgossip.co.uk/99may/social.html
At this website a certain Princess Tamara Dragadze is described as a
member of the Royal House of Georgia (the family of the last Empress)

Nonsense. IIRC the last Empress (rather, Queen) of Georgia was Thamar
who died 800 years ago. The Royal House of Georgia is called Bagratuni
not Dragadze. It is also unclear which of its branches should be
styled 'the Royal House'.

The Dragadze family is not mentioned in the full list of the Georgian
princely families prepared by the penultimate Georgian king as a
supplement to the Treaty of Georgievsk. Such a family was not
recognized as princely by Russian imperial authorities as well.

Post by Michael Rhodes
and that the Dragadze family compares with the Bourbons as one of the
oldest families in Europe.

Even greater nonsense. The male-line of the royal Bagratuni (not
Dragadze!) family dates back to the 12/13th century. The male-line of
the Bourbons dates back to the 7/8th century.

With best wishes, Andrey

[Pierre Aronax]

Post by Andrey Frizyuk

Post by Michael Rhodes
http://www.hotgossip.co.uk/99may/social.html
At this website a certain Princess Tamara Dragadze is described as a
member of the Royal House of Georgia (the family of the last Empress)

Nonsense. IIRC the last Empress (rather, Queen) of Georgia was Thamar
who died 800 years ago.

What about Russudan, and more recently Thamar II (17th century IIRC)?

Pierre

[Michael Rhodes]

Post by Shinjinee

Post by Michael Rhodes
Lord Grimthorpe, OBE, DL, the fourth Baron, soldier, company director,
Christopher John Beckett was born 16 September, 1915, eldest son of
the 3rd Lord Grimthorpe, TD, (1891-1963), a partner in the banking
firm of Beckett and Co., of Leeds, Yorkshire, by his first wife, Mary
Alice, daughter of Colonel Mervyn Archdale, 12th Lancers.

How is the late Lord Grimthorpe related to the late 3rd Marquess of
Zetland? IIRC both had mothers who were Archdales, daughters of a
Col. Mervyn Archdale. Were Cicely and Mary Alice sisters?
Shinjinee

I think Zetland & Grimthorpe were first cousins - the children of
sisters - sadly I do not possess a Landed Gentry of Ireland.

Colonel Mervyn Henry Archdale (properly Montgomery), 12th Lancers, was
born in 1852, son of Capt Mervyn Edward Archdale (or Montgomery), of
Castle Archdale, Limerick, County Fermanagh, MP, DL, JP, by his wife
Emma Inez, daughter of Jacob Goulding, of London and Kew.

Mervyn Henry Archdale m. (firstly?) 28 Nov. 1883, Mary (d. 1890),
eldest daughter of General Sir Henry Perceval de Bathe, 4th Bt,
(1823-1907) by his wife Charlotte Clare, & had issue, a son, b. 1890.

Were the daughters born to Mervyn's second spouse? Someone with an
early 20th century edition of Debrett's (de Bathe Bt) could tell us
whether the girls were granddaughters of the 4th Bt. Cicely Archdale
married Zetland in Dec. 1907, but at what age? If she was born to a
second wife of Col Archdale then she could only have been 16 or 17.
I'll investigate further.

--

Michael Rhodes

[Stephen Sinclair]

Post by Michael Rhodes

Post by Shinjinee
How is the late Lord Grimthorpe related to the late 3rd Marquess of
Zetland? IIRC both had mothers who were Archdales, daughters of a
Col. Mervyn Archdale. Were Cicely and Mary Alice sisters?

I think Zetland & Grimthorpe were first cousins - the children of
sisters - sadly I do not possess a Landed Gentry of Ireland.
Colonel Mervyn Henry Archdale (properly Montgomery), 12th Lancers, was
born in 1852, son of Capt Mervyn Edward Archdale (or Montgomery), of
Castle Archdale, Limerick, County Fermanagh, MP, DL, JP, by his wife
Emma Inez, daughter of Jacob Goulding, of London and Kew.
Mervyn Henry Archdale m. (firstly?) 28 Nov. 1883, Mary (d. 1890),
eldest daughter of General Sir Henry Perceval de Bathe, 4th Bt,
(1823-1907) by his wife Charlotte Clare, & had issue, a son, b. 1890.
Were the daughters born to Mervyn's second spouse? Someone with an
early 20th century edition of Debrett's (de Bathe Bt) could tell us
whether the girls were granddaughters of the 4th Bt. Cicely Archdale
married Zetland in Dec. 1907, but at what age? If she was born to a
second wife of Col Archdale then she could only have been 16 or 17.
I'll investigate further.

Unfortunately Debrett 1919 omitted mention of any of the daughters of
Gen. Sir Henry de Bathe, 4th Bt. (whose marriage took place on 27 Dec
1870), although they would normally have been included. Certainly
three daughters were alive and listed in Burke's 1939:

Viscountess Burnham (Olive);
Winifred, Mrs Harry McCalmont, widow of William Fanning;
Baroness Somerleyton (Phyllis).

No mention of Mary (who as a deceased daughter would normally have
been listed at that time by Burke's without details of issue), and the
relevant Archdale also avoids a mention in either book, although a
possible brother appears in Debrett 1919 (Companionage):
Brig-Gen Hugh James Archdale, born 1854, son of the late Capt Mervyn
A., of Castle Archdale.

Hopefully Landed Gentry of Ireland has a more complete picture.

[Michael Rhodes]

Alice, Lady Clifford, who died 19 July, 2003, aged 104, was granted
ths style and precedence of a widow of a Baronet, in Aug 1958. She was
b. Alice Mary Calder, daughter of John Joseph Calder, JP, of Ardargie,
Perthshire, and m. in 1925, Capt George Gilbert Joseph Clifford, 8th
Hussars, b. 1893, who was killed in action in France in May, 1940, &
would have succeeded to the baronetcy of Clifford of Flaxbourne if he
had survived. Lady Clifford was the mother of one daughter, Anne
Caroline.

(For Lady C's date of birth one can refer to CALDER in Burke's LG. She
isn't in my volume.)

--

Michael Rhodes

[Michael Rhodes]

Why?

Why what ?

Post by Michael Rhodes
Alice, Lady Clifford, who died 19 July, 2003, aged 104, was granted
ths style and precedence of a widow of a Baronet, in Aug 1958. She was
b. Alice Mary Calder, daughter of John Joseph Calder, JP, of Ardargie,
Perthshire, and m. in 1925, Capt George Gilbert Joseph Clifford, 8th
Hussars, b. 1893, who was killed in action in France in May, 1940, &
would have succeeded to the baronetcy of Clifford of Flaxbourne if he
had survived. Lady Clifford was the mother of one daughter, Anne
Caroline.
(For Lady C's date of birth one can refer to CALDER in Burke's LG. She
isn't in my volume.)

[EJM]

Why the title?

Post by Michael Rhodes
Alice, Lady Clifford, who died 19 July, 2003, aged 104, was granted
ths style and precedence of a widow of a Baronet, in Aug 1958. She was
b. Alice Mary Calder, daughter of John Joseph Calder, JP, of Ardargie,
Perthshire, and m. in 1925, Capt George Gilbert Joseph Clifford, 8th
Hussars, b. 1893, who was killed in action in France in May, 1940, &
would have succeeded to the baronetcy of Clifford of Flaxbourne if he
had survived.