On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 10:31:02 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
Post by Nicholas AnthonyPost by Bob BrockOn Thu, 9 Mar 2006 15:59:44 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
Post by Nicholas AnthonyPost by Bob BrockOn Thu, 9 Mar 2006 14:53:26 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
Post by Nicholas AnthonyPost by Bob BrockOn Thu, 9 Mar 2006 06:41:32 -0500, "Nicholas Anthony"
Post by Nicholas AnthonyPost by Bob BrockOn Wed, 08 Mar 2006 09:12:27 -0500, Stuart Grey
Post by Stuart GreyAm I the only one who sees the White House responce to a direct threat
as lame, even dickless? Oh, we're so worried about Iran's credibility!
Jeezus, I would have said something about how if Iran harmed the US, how
we'd find the destruction of so many historical artifacts and the
irradiation of such a large area of land regretable, and how the Persian
people would be the first to win a Darwin award for a whole population.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NUCLEAR_AGENCY_IRAN?SITE=7219&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2006-03-08-07-16-28
Mar 8, 11:00 AM EST
Iran Threatens U.S. With 'Harm and Pain'
What should be done about this other rouge nuclear power?
<http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyid=2006-03-08T142833Z_01_L08205988_RTRUKOC_0_US-NUCLEAR-IRAN-ISRAEL.xml&rpc=22>
BERLIN (Reuters) - If the U.N. Security Council is incapable of taking
action to stop Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons, Israel will have
no choice but to defend itself, Israel's defense minister said on
Wednesday.
Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz was asked whether Israel was ready to use
military action if the Security Council proved unable to act against
what Israel and the West believe is a covert Iranian nuclear weapons
program.
"My answer to this question is that the state of Israel has the right
give all the security that is needed to the people in Israel. We have
to defend ourselves," Mofaz told Reuters after a meeting with his
German counterpart Franz Josef Jung.
How is Israel rogue? They've been attacked ever since their second coming
and should have the right to defend herself. Just like you saying if
we
give
a woman a gun you cant rape her anymore.
Has Israel ever officially admitted having nuclear capabilities? You
know there is a reason for that. So let me see if I have this
right...It's OK for Israel to have nuclear weapons, but if any other
country want's one, they are a rouge state. Israel needs nukes to
defend itself from other nations who only have conventional weapons.
Is that pretty much how you see it?
First off don't draw conclusions that put words in peoples mouths. I didn't
say any country was rogue to begin with and clearly stated Israel certainly
is not.
Anyone willing to do a search of the thread can plainly see who first
used the term "rogue." Hint...it wasn't me.
Yes you are right and so I will remind you that you did on On Wed, 08 Mar
2006 09:12:27 -0500.
Reminder you said, "What should be done about this other rouge nuclear
power?" Then posted a link to an article on Israel will have to act on Iran
if UN can't.
I cant believe you would forget a day later but hey it happens.
In this case, it did. I stand corrected.
OK, I curious. If the news never reports it, how did you know about
it? I will stand by my convictions that if the US is going to allow
one side of a conflict to have nukes, they shouldn't whine too much if
the other side wants them.
I dont mean this in a demeaning way but you are a simple man. If you allowed
Israels enemies to have nukes you will lose all of the Israelies. Look at
the size and numbers of both sides. Israeli population is 6million compared
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/arabwrld.htm
Israel existed as a much smaller nation in the 1950's and 60's without
nukes.
Post by Nicholas Anthonyhttp://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2006/me_israel_02_23.html
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/TEMP/me_palestinians_09_14.html
http://www.iris.org.il/katyusha.htm
You post news links as proof that the news didn't report it? That is
very odd indeed.
From somewhere else in the news...
THE JEWISH BOMB
by Husayn Al-Kurdi
The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty was extended indefinitely on May
11, 1995. The 178-nation agreement basically reaffirmed the official
monopoly on nuclear weapons to be enjoyed by the "Big Five" nuclear
powers The United States, Russia, Britain, France and China who
also happen to be the same states that hold veto power in the United
Nations Security Council. The extension was pushed through at the
behest of the United States, which was the first to build, develop and
actually use the atomic bomb on civilian populations. "Off the books"
of the NPT, with a U.S.-sponsored exemption from having to submit to
the treaty or its terms, is the state that is regarded as the Sixth
Nuclear power in the world today Israel.
The Jewish state has been developing its nuclear capabilities since
the mid-1950s. At first in collaboration with France, and subsequently
with the cooperation of the white regime in South Africa and others,
the Jewish state has built what has been referred to by Israel
officials proudly as the "Third Temple," testing its nukes in New
Caledonia in the Pacific, in Algeria when it was a French colony, off
the coast of South Africa, and in underground tunnels in the Sinai
Desert.
Sensationalistic media accounts of "Islamic," "Arab," and "Third
World" nuclear bombs are bruited about as a matter of course, usually
with reference to nations which do not actually possess nuclear
weapons (Libya, Iran, North Korea) while Israels substantial nuclear
reservoir receives scant and sporadic attention at best. Were it not
for the efforts of two Jews, one a nuclear technician and the other a
Pulitzer Prize-winning American journalist, the world would be much
more ignorant about Israels nuclear capabilities.
Mordechai Vanunu, the Israeli who blew the whistle on Israels nukes
and facilitated subsequent investigations by others, was a technician
at Dimona. In late 1985, after working for over nine years at the
facility, he had had enough. He moved to Australia, taking two rolls
of photographs with him. The pictures provided incontrovertible
evidence that Israel was producing nuclear weapons.
Vanunu approached the London Sunday Times with detailed pictures of
the nuclear bomb factory several levels below ground, where plutonium
was being reprocessed. The world had been shut out of the
tightly-controlled facility since it first came into existence in
1957. Israel has always refused to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation
Treaty, keeping its plants closed to outside inspections of any kind.
U.S. congress people have been denied access to Dimona, and an Israeli
plane was shot down when it happened to accidentally strayed over the
plant. A false control room was even installed at Dimona to fool U.S.
inspectors who were let in before 1969.
It is widely believed that the CIA turned a blind eye to the
development of the Israeli bomb from the very beginning. In 1973, when
alarmed Israeli scientists brought the CIA photographs of nuclear
warheads stacked underground, there were no signs of interest. In
1979, when Israel and South Africa conducted one of their joint
nuclear tests in the South Atlantic, some brief notice was taken in a
few newspapers. The Carter administration tried to cover up by
ascribing the nuclear "double flashes" picked up on the radar of
orbiting satellites to quirky atmospheric phenomena of some kind.
Israel and South Africa had long cooperated in developing nuclear and
other weapons. The two apartheid states got closer as they became
increasingly regarded as international pariahs before their recent
U.S.-sponsored rehabilitations. Israel helped South Africa develop
nuclear-capable artillery pieces. The militaries of the two states had
a mutual wartime agreement to assist each other in times of armed
conflict. South Africa gave Israel carte blanche to conduct nuclear
tests in the Indian Ocean, with or without South African supervision.
South Africa provided Israel with uranium, and even allegedly
conducted the first Indian Ocean atomic bomb test "on Israels behalf"
in 1968.
Vanunu, the "Citizen Spy," has paid a typically harsh price for his
efforts at revealing Israels nuclear arsenal to the world: he was
lured to Rome from London by a female Mossad operative who used the
promise of sexual favors to entice him, pounced upon on his arrival at
a Rome apartment, drugged, kidnapped and taken to Israel, where he
landed in chains, crated up under diplomatic immunity and delivered to
the Israeli courts for their pronouncements. He got 18 years in prison
for treason. According to Sam Day of the U.S. Campaign to Free
Mordechai Vanunu, "Mordechai Vanunu continues to deteriorate
physically and mentally in the six by nine foot cell he has occupied
since the fall of 1986 in Ashkelon Prison."
Day went on to remark about the lack of interest in the Vanunu case
shown by "peace" and "progressive" circles in the United States.
"Mainline peace and justice, human rights and science policy groups
have chosen not to become involved" in the effort to obtain Vanunus
release. This comes as no surprise to defenders of Palestinian rights
or to anyone critical of Israel. The "progressive community" has often
been ready to excuse numerable atrocities which they would hardly
condone if the perpetrator did not happen to be the Jewish state.
This hostility toward Arabs and Muslims, combined with a reverence for
"heroic" Israel, was brought out in bold relief on June 12, 1982, date
of the largest anti-nuclear demonstration ever. Israel had just
invaded Lebanon and was in the process of tearing that country apart,
destroying all and everything in its way. Cluster bombs, napalm,
phosphorus shells, all manner of heavy and light artillery and
thousands of tons of bombs were unleashed on Arabs.
At the massive "peace" demonstration in front of the United Nations,
the predominantly Caucasian and Jewish revellers hooted at a Lebanese
speaker who was expressing anguish over the fate of his country,
making it clear that "peace" should not necessarily extend to Israels
victims, just as the recent feverish concern over nuclear
proliferation seems to overlook the worlds sixth-rated nuclear power.
At a large demonstration in San Diego on the very day that Desert
Storm was being unleashed on Iraq in January 1991, a Jewish peace
official with ties to "Left" organizations, including both the
Communist Party of the United States of America and the Democratic
Socialists of America, announced that there was a report that
"chemical missiles" had been launched against Israel. The "peace"
crowd she relayed this false report to were hushed into a stunned
silence. Concern for "poor beleaguered Israel" remains a preoccupation
with many of the "progressive" milieu. Many in the "peace" crowd
joined in breathing a sigh of relief that there were so few AMERICAN
casualties with the war ended. A couple of hundred thousand Iraqi
Arabs who lost their lives did not count, as the more-than-a-million
who have perished since as a result of the U.S.-driven U.N. sanctions
similarly do not figure in the hearts and minds of policy makers and
even many who profess an interest in achieving justice and peace.
The other Jew who played a prominent role in exposing the Jewish Bomb
to public attention was Seymour Hersh, the Pulitzer Prize-winning
reporter who wrote The Samson Option, published by Random House in
1991. Hersh put the pieces together and came up with a portrait of
Israel as an unstable, dangerous player in the nuclear game, a state
with both the capacity and the propensity to resort to methods of
extreme and indiscriminate terrorism.
Since its activities were, and are, largely tied in to attacking and
invading Palestinians and other Arabs in whose midst it has implanted
itself as a colonizing entity, the danger of accidental (or
purposeful) nuclear detonation is obvious. Until and unless Israel
changes its course of evermore paranoid confrontationism, something it
shows no real sign of doing at the present time, the Jewish people
will be in peril, in Israel and elsewhere.
People who demand that other countries sign the NPT or open their
nuclear facilities to international inspection are seldom, if ever,
heard making the same demands when it comes to Nuclear Power #6. The
obsession in both the establishment "policy" circles and in much of
what remains of the moribund "peace" movement is with what
establishment policy player Paul Warnke described as "the drive to
enter the nuclear club by countries like North Korea, Iraq and Iran,
or the growing number of terrorist groups gaining access to nuclear
materials." Liberals like actor Robert (The Great Peace March) Blake
and "Ecology" guru David Browder were raising the spectre of Libyans
crossing the borders into America with nuclear bombs in their
backpacks in the mid-1980s when Libya was declared U.S. Enemy Number
One. There was barely a peep from the "Left" when Libya was repeatedly
attacked by U.S. military forces. If it is Arab or Muslim, it already
has three strikes against it to many of the self-appointed custodians
of international social progress.
The "Samson" or "Madusa" complex involves a willingness to unleash any
horror in maniacal pursuit of strategic goals, or even obtain a
tactical advantage in a crisis situation. It is an element hardwired
into Israeli strategic plans. Israel has often threatened to use the
bombs at its disposal. During the 1937 Arab-Israeli war, the Jewish
state had 13 nukes all loaded up and ready to go on B-52s. Noam
Chomsky, in his masterful post-Lebanon invasion study, The Fateful
Triangle (South End Press 1983), describes the threatened use of the
nukes at that time as a ploy to speed up massive U.S. shipments of
conventional weaponry to Israel.
Chomskys ongoing attempts at stirring the "peace" crowd to an
awareness of the dangers inherent in such a force possessing the
nuclear option have gone virtually unheeded. An article he wrote for
Worldview, an organ of the Council on Religion and International
Affairs, was edited to specifically exclude Israel from mention as one
of five examples Chomsky offered of conflicts posing possible nuclear
catastrophe.
Another voice in the "progressive" wilderness has been the veteran
peace and social justice activist David Dellinger. He received a
wake-up call when he heard an Israeli Colonel Hamuzrahi bluntly state,
"We are not going to yield an inch to the Arabs even if it means
atomic flashes in New York." The fact that nearly two million Jews
live in the New York area would presumably not deter the execution of
such an unspeakable act.
Israel currently possesses hundreds of nuclear warheads which may be
launched on missiles which have a range to Tripoli, Tehran, Turkey and
Sudan. The very existence of this arsenal remains unmentioned or
obscured. The Oxford Companion to Politics of the World (Oxford
University Press, 1993) makes no mention of Israel under the heading
"Nuclear Nonproliferation." Although it does state that military
expenditures amount to "about 30% of GNP," in the main article on
"Israel," it does not mention the nukes. The sole reference to the
Israeli bomb occurs under the heading "Nuclear Weapons" and confirms
that "Israel has built as many as several hundred nuclear weapons as
weapons of last resort in the ongoing Middle East conflict." Israel is
almost inevitably portrayed as beleaguered and defensive, getting an
exemption from norms applied to others on that basis.
The liberal-leftist 4 Walls 8 Windows Press published a book, Deadly
Business by Herbert Krosney, which justifies the Israeli nukes by
claiming, "The specter of an Israeli Bomb (has) provided a measure of
deterrence," dovetailing neatly with the Israeli view expressed in a
volume on Arms Control and the New Middle East Security Environment
released by the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv
University in 1994, that the priority is on "preventing a
multi-nuclear Middle East" and that "Israel should not be expected to
give up its nuclear capacity." According to The Other Israel, a
newsletter put out by the Israeli Council for Israeli-Palestinian
peace, "All mainstream politicians (government and opposition alike)
support the continuation of the nuclear option" although "The
government did issue the very unobliging undertaking to 'open
negotiations on a nuclear-free Middle East two years after full peace
agreements with all members of the Arab League, as well as with Iran,
are signed." An opinion poll by a major Israeli daily newspaper found
71% of Israelis against the NPT.
The widely cited Janes Review of London confirmed in its November
1994 issue that Israel has seven nuclear installations and over 200
fully-armed nuclear weapons, any one of which could destroy a major
city. Hydrogen bombs, neutron bombs, Cruise missiles and nuclear
cannon are only a few among the weapons that have been perfected and
added to Israels arsenal in recent years. Chomsky rates Israel as the
worlds fourth greatest military power in The Fateful Triangle. Only
the "Big Five" (USA, Britain, Russia, France and China) can claim to
surpass Israel in terms of nuclear war capability. People throughout
the Middle East and even citizens of New York may be legitimately
disturbed by the knowledge of the prospects this may entail