The Miami Myth Machine

Post by torresD
http://www.change-links.org/MythMachine.htm
Few Cuban Americans care to remember
that Fulgencio Batista y Saldivar came
to power as the result of a 1952 coup
and that it was Batista's political
illegitimacy and the oppressive conditions
imposed by the landed elite and owners
of industry on most poor Cubans that
produced the conditions that made
Castro possible.
They also choose to forget that it
was Batista and other dictators who
turned the island into a mafia fiefdom
that allowed Cuba to be monopolized by
US-based international land companies
like the United Fruit Company.

What Doris would also like you to forget is that in 1940 Bastista was
supported by the Cuban communists and that they continued to support him
until close to his fall.
The Cuban communists condemned the Castro attack on the Moncada and Castri
refuted being a communist.
Che also admitted the revolution was not communist:

"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation
movement that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12
12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.
Cuba before the revolution:
Were the elements conducive to a communist revolution in place?
Cuba was the third developed nation in the Americas. In certain indicators
of development it beat European nations like Spain, Portugal and even
Belgium in the early 1950's.

see: http://www.state.gov/p/wha/ci/14776.htm

"Armando Hart, a member of Castro's innermost ruling group, made the
extremely significant observation that:
. . . it is certain that capitalism had attained high levels of
organization, efficiency and production that declined after the
Revolution. . . (Juventud Rebelde, November 2, 1969; quoted by Rene Dumont,
Is Cuba Socialist?)

Paul A. Baran, an ardent pro-Castroite in the equally ardent Monthly Review
pamphlet, Reflections on the Cuban Revolution (1961) substantiates what
every economist, as well as amateurs like Castro, has been saying:
...the Cuban Revolution was born with a silver spoon in its mouth. .

.the world renowned French agronomist, Rene Dumont, has estimated that if
properly cultivated as intensively as South China, Cuba could feed fifty
million people. . . the Cuban Revolution is spared the painful, but
ineluctable compulsion that has beset preceding socialist revolutions: the
necessity to force tightening of people's belts in order to lay the
foundations for a better tomorrow. . .(p. 23)

Theodore Draper quotes Anial Escalante, (before he was purged by Castro) one
of the leading communists, who admitted that:
...in reality, Cuba was not one of the countries with the lowest standard of
living of the masses in America, but on the contrary, one of the highest
standards of living, and it was here where the first great . . . democratic
social revolution of the continent burst forth. . . If the historical
development had been dictated by the false axiom [revolutions come first in
poorest countries] the revolution should have been first produced in Haiti,
Colombia or even Chile, countries of greater poverty for the masses than the
Cuba of 1958. . . (quoted in Draper's Castro's Revolution: Myths and
Realities; New York, 1962,
p. 22)

see: Anarchists Archive - Dolgoff

Castro himself admitted that there was no hunger in Cuba:

Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis
and no hunger in Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise
and Fall of Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)

Batista and the Communists.
Where were the communists during the Cuban revolution? If we believe Fidel
Castro not on the side of the revolution:

In the course of the guerrilla struggle in the Sierra Maestra mountains, he
(Castro) delivered another speech which, once again, stresses his distance
from the Communists:

"What right does Senor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party ... his
portrait hung next to Blas Roca's and Lazaro Pena's; and half a dozen
ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP."
H.M. Enzenburger, Raids and Reconstructions, London, 1976, p.200.

See: http://www.marxisme.dk/arkiv/binns/80-cucas.htm

A version of the facts confirmed in this (Marxist) source:

In November 1940, the communists supported Batista's candidates in the
elections to the Constituent Assembly. In return for their support, Batista
allowed the communists to organize and control the government sponsored
union, Cuban Confederation of Labor (CTC Confederacion de Trabajadores de
Cuba) The first Secretary General of the CTC was Lazaro Pena--who,
ironically, enough, held the same post in the Castro regime. In exchange for
these favors the communists guaranteed Batista labor peace. In line with the
Communist Party's "Popular Front Against Fascism" policy, the alliance of
the Communist Party with the Batista was officially consumated when the
Party joined the Batista government. The Communist Party leaders Carlos
Rafael Rodriguez and Juan Marinello (who now hold high posts in the Castro
government) became Ministers Without Portfolio in Batista's Cabinet. To
illustrate the intimate connections between the communists and Batista, we
quote from a letter of Batista to Blas Roca, Secretary of the Communist
Party:

June 13,1944
Dear Blas,
With respect to your letter which our mutual friend, Dr. Carlos Rafael
Rodriguez, Minister Without Portfolio, passed to me, I am happy to again
express my firm unshakeable confidence in the loyal cooperation the People's
Socialist Party [the then official name of the Communist Party of Cuba] its
leaders and members have given and continue to give myself and my
government. . .

Believe me, as always, Your very affectionate and cordial friend,
Fulgencio Batista

In the electoral campaign the Communist candidates won ten seats in the
Cuban parliament and more than a hundred posts in the Municipal councils.

In line with their pro-Batista policy the communists joined Batista in
condemning Fidel Castro's attack on the Moncada Barracks (July 1953 -- the
anniversary of the attack is a national holiday in Castro Cuba)
. . . the life of the People's Socialist Party (communist). . . has been to
combat . . . and unmask the putschists and adventurous activities of the
bourgeois opposition as being against the interests of the people. . .
(reported in Daily Worker, U.S organ of the Communist Party, August 10,
1953)
Throughout the Batista period the communists pursued two parallel policies:
overtly they criticized Batista and covertly they cooperated with him.

See:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html

From the International Socialist Review:

Cuba had been run by dictator Fulgencio Batista since 1934. His regime was
corrupt and brutal. Although fully supported by the U.S., Batista was hated
by everyone except for his immediate collaborators and hangers-on. In the
late 1950s, this regime had no true left opposition. Gangsters ran the
unions. The Communist Party (CP)-known at the time as the Popular Socialist
Party (PSP)-was, like other Communist Parties of the 1930s, a useful
instrument of Stalin's foreign policy. However, the PSP had decomposed far
more than the average CP. It was linked to the Batista regime to such an
extent that Castro could say,

What right does Señor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party.his portrait
hung next to [Communist leaders] Blas Roca's and Lazaro Peña's; and half a
dozen ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP.(10)

The opposition to Batista that existed in the cities was overwhelmingly
middle class, organized around the Instituciones Cívicas. Another component
of the opposition was the student movement-also middle-class oriented.
Although it would be a mistake to say that workers did not participate in
opposition activity, their participation was not independent. Instead of
putting forward their own class demands, workers were participants in a
movement that was united in its shared hatred of Batista's regime.
Castro's July 26th Movement was made up for the most part of intellectuals,
students, professionals and a limited number of peasants. Not only were its
members mostly middle class, but its politics were decidedly middle class,
too. It emphasized modest land reform and the development of Cuban
capitalism without the obstructions of big business or imperialism. The
guerrilla movement began its life in 1953 with an attack on the Moncada
Barracks. In 1956, it re-launched its guerrilla struggle when it took to the
Sierra Maestra mountains. The guerrilla strategy was one that explicitly
rejected workers as the main revolutionary force. Che Guevara-who later
became the worldwide symbol of guerrilla struggle-considered Cuban workers
to be complacent and bought off by the system. In fact, he considered the
cities an obstacle in the struggle:

It is more difficult to prepare guerrilla bands in those countries that have
undergone a concentration of population in great centers and have
developed light and medium industry.The ideological influence of the cities
inhibits the guerrilla struggle.11

In the first year of the revolution, Guevara explicitly denied its class
character:

"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation movement
that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12

10 Quoted in H. M. Enzenburguer, Raids and Reconstructions: Essays on
Politics, Crime, and Culture (London: Pluto Press, 1976), p. 200.

11 Quoted in T. Cliff, Deflected Permanent Revolution (London:
Bookmarks,1986), pp. 14-15. Originally in C. Guevara, "Cuba: Exceptional
Case?"Monthly Review (NY), July/August 1961, pp. 65-66.

12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.

See: http://www.isreview.org/issues/11/cuba_crisis.shtml

Inside the Cuban Revolution
Fidel Castro and the Urban Underground.
By : Julia E. Sweig

Julia Sweig shatters the mythology surrounding the Cuban Revolution in a
compelling revisionist history that reconsiders the revolutionary roles of
Fidel Castro and Che Guevara and restores to a central position the
leadership of the Cuban urban underground, the Llano.
Granted unprecedented access to the classified records of Castro's 26th of
July Movement's underground operatives--the only scholar inside or outside
of Cuba allowed access to the complete collection in the Cuban Council of
State's Office of Historic Affairs--she details the ideological, political,
and strategic debates between Castro's mountain-based guerrilla movement and
the urban revolutionaries in Havana, Santiago, and other cities.

In a close study of the fifteen months from November 1956 to July 1958, when
the urban underground leadership was dominant, Sweig examines the debate
between the two groups over whether to wage guerrilla warfare in the
countryside or armed insurrection in the cities, and is the first to
document the extent of Castro's cooperation with the Llano. She unveils the
essential role of the urban underground, led by such figures as Frank País,
Armando Hart, Haydée Santamaria, Enrique Oltuski, and Faustino Pérez, in
controlling critical decisions on tactics, strategy, allocation of
resources, and
relations with opposition forces, political parties, Cuban exiles, even the
United States--contradicting the standard view of Castro as the primary
decision maker during the revolution.

In revealing the true relationship between Castro and the urban underground,
Sweig redefines the history of the Cuban Revolution, offering guideposts for
understanding Cuban politics in the 1960s and raising intriguing questions
for the future transition of power in Cuba.

See: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/SWEINS.html

From: www.cubaverdad.org

PL

T.Schmidt

2005-04-04 10:22:03 UTC

Qué chiflados estáis. Si estaban mejor con Batista y sus comunistas, ¿por
qué no se quedaron con los dos?

T.Schmidt
---------------------------------

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html

Post by PL
Cuba had been run by dictator Fulgencio Batista since 1934. His regime was
corrupt and brutal. Although fully supported by the U.S., Batista was hated
by everyone except for his immediate collaborators and hangers-on. In the
late 1950s, this regime had no true left opposition. Gangsters ran the
unions. The Communist Party (CP)-known at the time as the Popular Socialist
Party (PSP)-was, like other Communist Parties of the 1930s, a useful
instrument of Stalin's foreign policy. However, the PSP had decomposed far
more than the average CP. It was linked to the Batista regime to such an
extent that Castro could say,
What right does Señor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party.his portrait
hung next to [Communist leaders] Blas Roca's and Lazaro Peña's; and half a
dozen ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP.(10)
The opposition to Batista that existed in the cities was overwhelmingly
middle class, organized around the Instituciones Cívicas. Another component
of the opposition was the student movement-also middle-class oriented.
Although it would be a mistake to say that workers did not participate in
opposition activity, their participation was not independent. Instead of
putting forward their own class demands, workers were participants in a
movement that was united in its shared hatred of Batista's regime.
Castro's July 26th Movement was made up for the most part of

intellectuals,

Post by PL
students, professionals and a limited number of peasants. Not only were its
members mostly middle class, but its politics were decidedly middle class,
too. It emphasized modest land reform and the development of Cuban
capitalism without the obstructions of big business or imperialism. The
guerrilla movement began its life in 1953 with an attack on the Moncada
Barracks. In 1956, it re-launched its guerrilla struggle when it took to the
Sierra Maestra mountains. The guerrilla strategy was one that explicitly
rejected workers as the main revolutionary force. Che Guevara-who later
became the worldwide symbol of guerrilla struggle-considered Cuban workers
to be complacent and bought off by the system. In fact, he considered the
It is more difficult to prepare guerrilla bands in those countries that have
undergone a concentration of population in great centers and have
developed light and medium industry.The ideological influence of the cities
inhibits the guerrilla struggle.11
In the first year of the revolution, Guevara explicitly denied its class
"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation movement
that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12
10 Quoted in H. M. Enzenburguer, Raids and Reconstructions: Essays on
Politics, Crime, and Culture (London: Pluto Press, 1976), p. 200.
Bookmarks,1986), pp. 14-15. Originally in C. Guevara, "Cuba: Exceptional
Case?"Monthly Review (NY), July/August 1961, pp. 65-66.
12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.
See: http://www.isreview.org/issues/11/cuba_crisis.shtml
Inside the Cuban Revolution
Fidel Castro and the Urban Underground.
By : Julia E. Sweig
Julia Sweig shatters the mythology surrounding the Cuban Revolution in a
compelling revisionist history that reconsiders the revolutionary roles of
Fidel Castro and Che Guevara and restores to a central position the
leadership of the Cuban urban underground, the Llano.
Granted unprecedented access to the classified records of Castro's 26th of
July Movement's underground operatives--the only scholar inside or outside
of Cuba allowed access to the complete collection in the Cuban Council of
State's Office of Historic Affairs--she details the ideological, political,
and strategic debates between Castro's mountain-based guerrilla movement and
the urban revolutionaries in Havana, Santiago, and other cities.
In a close study of the fifteen months from November 1956 to July 1958, when
the urban underground leadership was dominant, Sweig examines the debate
between the two groups over whether to wage guerrilla warfare in the
countryside or armed insurrection in the cities, and is the first to
document the extent of Castro's cooperation with the Llano. She unveils the
essential role of the urban underground, led by such figures as Frank País,
Armando Hart, Haydée Santamaria, Enrique Oltuski, and Faustino Pérez, in
controlling critical decisions on tactics, strategy, allocation of
resources, and
relations with opposition forces, political parties, Cuban exiles, even the
United States--contradicting the standard view of Castro as the primary
decision maker during the revolution.
In revealing the true relationship between Castro and the urban underground,
Sweig redefines the history of the Cuban Revolution, offering guideposts for
understanding Cuban politics in the 1960s and raising intriguing questions
for the future transition of power in Cuba.
See: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/SWEINS.html
From: www.cubaverdad.org
PL

2005-04-04 09:31:15 UTC

The Cubans would be a lot better off without any dictator (Batista or
Castro) and their common allies: the communists.

PL

Post by T.Schmidt
Qué chiflados estáis. Si estaban mejor con Batista y sus comunistas, ¿por
qué no se quedaron con los dos?
T.Schmidt
---------------------------------

Dumont,

Post by PL
Is Cuba Socialist?)
Paul A. Baran, an ardent pro-Castroite in the equally ardent Monthly

Review

Post by PL
pamphlet, Reflections on the Cuban Revolution (1961) substantiates what
...the Cuban Revolution was born with a silver spoon in its mouth. .
.the world renowned French agronomist, Rene Dumont, has estimated that if
properly cultivated as intensively as South China, Cuba could feed fifty
million people. . . the Cuban Revolution is spared the painful, but
ineluctable compulsion that has beset preceding socialist revolutions: the
necessity to force tightening of people's belts in order to lay the
foundations for a better tomorrow. . .(p. 23)
Theodore Draper quotes Anial Escalante, (before he was purged by Castro)

one

Post by PL
...in reality, Cuba was not one of the countries with the lowest standard

Post by PL
living of the masses in America, but on the contrary, one of the highest
standards of living, and it was here where the first great . . .

democratic

Post by PL
social revolution of the continent burst forth. . . If the historical
development had been dictated by the false axiom [revolutions come first

Post by PL
poorest countries] the revolution should have been first produced in

Haiti,

Post by PL
Colombia or even Chile, countries of greater poverty for the masses than

the

Post by PL
Cuba of 1958. . . (quoted in Draper's Castro's Revolution: Myths and
Realities; New York, 1962,
p. 22)
see: Anarchists Archive - Dolgoff
Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis
and no hunger in Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The

Rise

Post by PL
and Fall of Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)
Batista and the Communists.
Where were the communists during the Cuban revolution? If we believe Fidel
In the course of the guerrilla struggle in the Sierra Maestra mountains,

Post by PL
(Castro) delivered another speech which, once again, stresses his distance
"What right does Senor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in

the

Post by PL
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party ... his
portrait hung next to Blas Roca's and Lazaro Pena's; and half a dozen
ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP."
H.M. Enzenburger, Raids and Reconstructions, London, 1976, p.200.
See: http://www.marxisme.dk/arkiv/binns/80-cucas.htm
In November 1940, the communists supported Batista's candidates in the
elections to the Constituent Assembly. In return for their support,

Batista

Post by PL
allowed the communists to organize and control the government sponsored
union, Cuban Confederation of Labor (CTC Confederacion de Trabajadores de
Cuba) The first Secretary General of the CTC was Lazaro Pena--who,
ironically, enough, held the same post in the Castro regime. In exchange

for

Post by PL
these favors the communists guaranteed Batista labor peace. In line with

the

Post by PL
Communist Party's "Popular Front Against Fascism" policy, the alliance of
the Communist Party with the Batista was officially consumated when the
Party joined the Batista government. The Communist Party leaders Carlos
Rafael Rodriguez and Juan Marinello (who now hold high posts in the Castro
government) became Ministers Without Portfolio in Batista's Cabinet. To
illustrate the intimate connections between the communists and Batista, we
quote from a letter of Batista to Blas Roca, Secretary of the Communist
June 13,1944
Dear Blas,
With respect to your letter which our mutual friend, Dr. Carlos Rafael
Rodriguez, Minister Without Portfolio, passed to me, I am happy to again
express my firm unshakeable confidence in the loyal cooperation the

People's

Post by PL
Socialist Party [the then official name of the Communist Party of Cuba]

its

Post by PL
leaders and members have given and continue to give myself and my
government. . .
Believe me, as always, Your very affectionate and cordial friend,
Fulgencio Batista
In the electoral campaign the Communist candidates won ten seats in the
Cuban parliament and more than a hundred posts in the Municipal councils.
In line with their pro-Batista policy the communists joined Batista in
condemning Fidel Castro's attack on the Moncada Barracks (July 1953 -- the
anniversary of the attack is a national holiday in Castro Cuba)
. . . the life of the People's Socialist Party (communist). . . has been

Post by PL
combat . . . and unmask the putschists and adventurous activities of the
bourgeois opposition as being against the interests of the people. . .
(reported in Daily Worker, U.S organ of the Communist Party, August 10,
1953)
Throughout the Batista period the communists pursued two parallel
overtly they criticized Batista and covertly they cooperated with him.

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html

Post by PL
Cuba had been run by dictator Fulgencio Batista since 1934. His regime was
corrupt and brutal. Although fully supported by the U.S., Batista was

hated

Post by PL
by everyone except for his immediate collaborators and hangers-on. In the
late 1950s, this regime had no true left opposition. Gangsters ran the
unions. The Communist Party (CP)-known at the time as the Popular

Socialist

Post by PL
Party (PSP)-was, like other Communist Parties of the 1930s, a useful
instrument of Stalin's foreign policy. However, the PSP had decomposed far
more than the average CP. It was linked to the Batista regime to such an
extent that Castro could say,
What right does Señor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in

the

Post by PL
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party.his portrait
hung next to [Communist leaders] Blas Roca's and Lazaro Peña's; and half a
dozen ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP.(10)
The opposition to Batista that existed in the cities was overwhelmingly
middle class, organized around the Instituciones Cívicas. Another

component

Post by PL
of the opposition was the student movement-also middle-class oriented.
Although it would be a mistake to say that workers did not participate in
opposition activity, their participation was not independent. Instead of
putting forward their own class demands, workers were participants in a
movement that was united in its shared hatred of Batista's regime.
Castro's July 26th Movement was made up for the most part of

intellectuals,

Post by PL
students, professionals and a limited number of peasants. Not only were

its

Post by PL
members mostly middle class, but its politics were decidedly middle class,
too. It emphasized modest land reform and the development of Cuban
capitalism without the obstructions of big business or imperialism. The
guerrilla movement began its life in 1953 with an attack on the Moncada
Barracks. In 1956, it re-launched its guerrilla struggle when it took to

the

Post by PL
Sierra Maestra mountains. The guerrilla strategy was one that explicitly
rejected workers as the main revolutionary force. Che Guevara-who later
became the worldwide symbol of guerrilla struggle-considered Cuban workers
to be complacent and bought off by the system. In fact, he considered the
It is more difficult to prepare guerrilla bands in those countries that

have

Post by PL
undergone a concentration of population in great centers and have
developed light and medium industry.The ideological influence of the

cities

Post by PL
inhibits the guerrilla struggle.11
In the first year of the revolution, Guevara explicitly denied its class
"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation movement
that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12
10 Quoted in H. M. Enzenburguer, Raids and Reconstructions: Essays on
Politics, Crime, and Culture (London: Pluto Press, 1976), p. 200.
Bookmarks,1986), pp. 14-15. Originally in C. Guevara, "Cuba: Exceptional
Case?"Monthly Review (NY), July/August 1961, pp. 65-66.
12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.
See: http://www.isreview.org/issues/11/cuba_crisis.shtml
Inside the Cuban Revolution
Fidel Castro and the Urban Underground.
By : Julia E. Sweig
Julia Sweig shatters the mythology surrounding the Cuban Revolution in a
compelling revisionist history that reconsiders the revolutionary roles of
Fidel Castro and Che Guevara and restores to a central position the
leadership of the Cuban urban underground, the Llano.
Granted unprecedented access to the classified records of Castro's 26th of
July Movement's underground operatives--the only scholar inside or outside
of Cuba allowed access to the complete collection in the Cuban Council of
State's Office of Historic Affairs--she details the ideological,

political,

Post by PL
and strategic debates between Castro's mountain-based guerrilla movement

and

Post by PL
the urban revolutionaries in Havana, Santiago, and other cities.
In a close study of the fifteen months from November 1956 to July 1958,

when

Post by PL
the urban underground leadership was dominant, Sweig examines the debate
between the two groups over whether to wage guerrilla warfare in the
countryside or armed insurrection in the cities, and is the first to
document the extent of Castro's cooperation with the Llano. She unveils

the

Post by PL
essential role of the urban underground, led by such figures as Frank

País,

Post by PL
Armando Hart, Haydée Santamaria, Enrique Oltuski, and Faustino Pérez, in
controlling critical decisions on tactics, strategy, allocation of
resources, and
relations with opposition forces, political parties, Cuban exiles, even

the

Post by PL
United States--contradicting the standard view of Castro as the primary
decision maker during the revolution.
In revealing the true relationship between Castro and the urban

underground,

Post by PL
Sweig redefines the history of the Cuban Revolution, offering guideposts

for

Post by PL
understanding Cuban politics in the 1960s and raising intriguing questions
for the future transition of power in Cuba.
See: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/SWEINS.html
From: www.cubaverdad.org
PL

T.Schmidt

2005-04-04 10:49:41 UTC

Bullshit. Everything you say is just to overthrow Castro and take power in
Cuba.

But to take power in Cuba you are counting on Cubans being gullible and
selfish people. The truth is that the extreme right is worse than the
Communists and you cannot fool any one.

T.Schmidt
P.S. Dios castiga por donde más duele y el castigo de Uds. ha sido quedarse
sin patria. El que no ama a su patria, la pierde.
-----------------------------------

Post by PL
The Cubans would be a lot better off without any dictator (Batista or
Castro) and their common allies: the communists.
PL

Post by T.Schmidt
Qué chiflados estáis. Si estaban mejor con Batista y sus comunistas, ¿por
qué no se quedaron con los dos?
T.Schmidt

2005-04-04 11:12:12 UTC

I do not want to "take power" in Cuba.
I want to give the Cuban people, powerless today, the power they are
entitled to as a sovereign nation.
The people of Cuba (in exile and on the island) are the only ones that can
claim the right to sovereignty.
A free and fair election where ALL can stand and all can vote is the only
way ahead.
You have to admit that Castro is part of the problem and not part of the
solution.
NO dictatorship is good. Not Batista's, not Castro's.
The fact they both had the communist as allies shows that something is (and
was) very wrong.
Frank Pais, Santiagero - revolutionary, was right about Castro: he is a
"caudillo" like Batista and like Pinochet and ........
Democracy, freedom of speech and respect of human rights.
That is what I advocate.
Dictator left, dictator right, dictator wrong.
My grandfather was put in jail by both Stalin and Hitler. I don't need any
lessons from you about dictators. I already had an in depth course. that
includes from my wife and my experiences in Eastern Europe and Cuba.

PL

Post by T.Schmidt
Bullshit. Everything you say is just to overthrow Castro and take power in
Cuba.
But to take power in Cuba you are counting on Cubans being gullible and
selfish people. The truth is that the extreme right is worse than the
Communists and you cannot fool any one.
T.Schmidt
P.S. Dios castiga por donde más duele y el castigo de Uds. ha sido quedarse
sin patria. El que no ama a su patria, la pierde.
-----------------------------------

Post by PL
The Cubans would be a lot better off without any dictator (Batista or
Castro) and their common allies: the communists.
PL

Post by T.Schmidt
Qué chiflados estáis. Si estaban mejor con Batista y sus comunistas,

¿por

Post by T.Schmidt
qué no se quedaron con los dos?
T.Schmidt

T.Schmidt

2005-04-04 16:12:27 UTC

If you are against Communism, ¿why are you for Batista? To me it sounds like
you are just trying to replace Castro with something worse.

T.Schmidt
-------------------------------------

Post by PL
I do not want to "take power" in Cuba.
I want to give the Cuban people, powerless today, the power they are
entitled to as a sovereign nation.
The people of Cuba (in exile and on the island) are the only ones that can
claim the right to sovereignty.
A free and fair election where ALL can stand and all can vote is the only
way ahead.
You have to admit that Castro is part of the problem and not part of the
solution.
NO dictatorship is good. Not Batista's, not Castro's.
The fact they both had the communist as allies shows that something is (and
was) very wrong.
Frank Pais, Santiagero - revolutionary, was right about Castro: he is a
"caudillo" like Batista and like Pinochet and ........
Democracy, freedom of speech and respect of human rights.
That is what I advocate.
Dictator left, dictator right, dictator wrong.
My grandfather was put in jail by both Stalin and Hitler. I don't need any
lessons from you about dictators. I already had an in depth course. that
includes from my wife and my experiences in Eastern Europe and Cuba.
PL

Post by PL
The Cubans would be a lot better off without any dictator (Batista or
Castro) and their common allies: the communists.
PL

Post by T.Schmidt
Qué chiflados estáis. Si estaban mejor con Batista y sus comunistas,

¿por

Post by T.Schmidt
qué no se quedaron con los dos?
T.Schmidt

2005-04-04 20:14:21 UTC

Post by T.Schmidt
If you are against Communism, ¿why are you for Batista?

I am not for Bastita. Being againts the communists does NOT mean one is for
Batista.
The historical context shows that one could be against both even during the
revolution.
The communists actually sided with Batista and condemned the acts like the
attack on the Moncada.
See: Daily Worker, U.S organ of the Communist Party, August 10, 1953.
Quoted at:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html

Also see Castro's statement:

What right does Senor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party ... his
portrait hung next to Blas Roca's and Lazaro Pena's; and half a dozen
ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP."
H.M. Enzenburger, Raids and Reconstructions, London, 1976, p.200.

See: http://www.marxisme.dk/arkiv/binns/80-cucas.htm

"The Communist Party leaders Carlos
Rafael Rodriguez and Juan Marinello (who now hold high posts in the Castro
government) became Ministers Without Portfolio in Batista's Cabinet. "
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html

I support the aim of the orginal revolution agsinst Batista in Cuba:
restauration or the 1940 constitution.

"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation
movement that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12
12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.

Post by T.Schmidt
To me it sounds like
you are just trying to replace Castro with something worse.

No and that is actually hardly possible.
Did you know that Castro is on the list of www.genocidewatch.org as guilty
of genocide?
See: http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocidetable.htm
Genocidal bastards are rather rare these days. Thank God.

A free Cuba that is truly democratic and that respects people's human rights
is what I support.
How about you?

PL

Post by T.Schmidt
T.Schmidt
-------------------------------------

(and

Post by PL
was) very wrong.
Frank Pais, Santiagero - revolutionary, was right about Castro: he is a
"caudillo" like Batista and like Pinochet and ........
Democracy, freedom of speech and respect of human rights.
That is what I advocate.
Dictator left, dictator right, dictator wrong.
My grandfather was put in jail by both Stalin and Hitler. I don't need any
lessons from you about dictators. I already had an in depth course. that
includes from my wife and my experiences in Eastern Europe and Cuba.
PL

Post by T.Schmidt
Bullshit. Everything you say is just to overthrow Castro and take power

Post by T.Schmidt
Cuba.
But to take power in Cuba you are counting on Cubans being gullible and
selfish people. The truth is that the extreme right is worse than the
Communists and you cannot fool any one.
T.Schmidt
P.S. Dios castiga por donde más duele y el castigo de Uds. ha sido quedarse
sin patria. El que no ama a su patria, la pierde.
-----------------------------------

Post by PL
The Cubans would be a lot better off without any dictator (Batista or
Castro) and their common allies: the communists.
PL

Post by T.Schmidt
Qué chiflados estáis. Si estaban mejor con Batista y sus comunistas,

¿por

Post by T.Schmidt
qué no se quedaron con los dos?
T.Schmidt

T.Schmidt

2005-04-04 22:29:55 UTC

Post by PL
A free Cuba that is truly democratic and that respects people's human rights
is what I support.
How about you?
PL

---------------------------
PL

Good questions. here are my answers

[1] I don't believe you mean what you say. I think you are a hypocrite.

[2] About Cuba, I believe the first thing we must do is to respect their
sovereignity. What type of government they chose is their problem. Democracy
may appear good to us, but may not to them.

Why don't you go and tell Israel or Saudi Arabia or Iran what kind of
government they can have? You are not even a real Cuban, go back to where
you came from and do something for your own people.

T.Schmidt

2005-04-04 21:40:58 UTC

Post by PL
A free Cuba that is truly democratic and that respects people's human

rights

Post by PL
is what I support.
How about you?
PL

---------------------------
PL
Good questions. here are my answers
[1] I don't believe you mean what you say. I think you are a hypocrite.

and you base yourself on what to think that or is it just the fact that I
condemn the current regime that bothers you?
We will come back to the hypocrite thing further down.

Post by PL
[2] About Cuba, I believe the first thing we must do is to respect their
sovereignty.

Their?
The soveignty lies in the people. They are the only ones that can claims to
truly represent the sovereignty of the nation.
They can delegate the exercise of that sovereignty to a freely and fairly
elected government.
Any government that is not freely and fairly elected can not claim to
represent the sovereignty of the country.
It violates the sovereignty of the people.

Post by PL
What type of government they chose is their problem.

True.
But they should be able to do so in free and fair elections, no?
Not have anything imposed on them.

Post by PL
Democracy
may appear good to us, but may not to them.

and prey how can you know if a country has no freedom of expression and
repressive laws like these below what the people really want?
If there is no free expression of the popular will possible how can you say
what the people wants?
Your statements reeks (heavily) of hypocrisy.

I agree with the UN:
"the electoral process is so tightly controlled that the final phase,
the voting itself, could be dispensed with without the final result being
substantially affected"
http://www.hri.ca/fortherecord1998/vol4/cubachr.htm

abusive laws aimed a repressing dissent:

1.. Article 144, which defines the crime of desacato, or "disrespect." It
states that anyone who threatens, slanders, defames, insults, harms or in
anyway outrages or offends, verbally or in writing, the dignity or honor of
an authority, public official, or their agents or auxiliaries, in the
exercise of their functions or because of them can be imprisoned for between
three months and one year or fined or both. If the act of disrespect is
directed at the head of state or other senior officials the penalty is a
prison term from one to three years.

2.. Articles 208 and 209, which define the crime of asociación ilícita, or
"illicit association." These articles state that anyone belonging to an
unregistered association can be fined or imprisoned for between one and
three months. The promoters or leaders of such an association can be fined
or imprisoned for between three months and a year. Anyone who participates
in illegal meetings or demonstrations can be fined or imprisoned for between
one and three months. The organizers of illegal meetings or demonstrations
can be fined or imprisoned for between three months and a year.

3.. Article 103, which defines the crime of propaganda enemiga, or "enemy
propaganda." It states that anyone who incites against the social order,
international solidarity or the socialist state by means of verbal, written
or any other kind of propaganda, or who makes, distributes or possesses such
propaganda, can be imprisoned from between one to eight years. Anyone who
spreads false news or malicious predictions likely to cause alarm or
discontent among the population, or public disorder, can be imprisoned from
between one and four years. If the mass media are used, the sentence can be
from seven to fifteen years in prison.

4.. Article 207, which defines the crime of asociación para delinquir, or
"associating with others to commit crimes." It states that if three or more
persons join together in a group to commit crimes, they can be imprisoned
for between one and three years, simply for meeting together. If the only
objective of the group is to provoke disorder or interrupt family or public
parties, spectacles or other community events or to commit other anti-social
acts, the penalty is a fine or a prison sentence of between three months and
one year.

5.. Article 115, which defines the crime of difusión de falsas informaciones
contra la paz internacional, or "dissemination of false information against
international peace." It states that anyone who spreads
false news with aim of disturbing international peace or putting in danger
the prestige or credit of the Cuban State or its good relations with another
state can be imprisoned for between one and four years.

6.. Article 143, which defines the crime of resistencia, or "resistance." On
occasion, the crime is referred to as desobediencia, or "disobedience." It
states that anyone who resists an official in the exercise of his duties can
be imprisoned for between three months and a year or fined. If the official
is trying to apprehend a criminal or someone who has escaped from prison,
the penalty is a prison term from two to five years.

7.. Articles 72-90, which define the crime of peligrosidad, or
"dangerousness." These articles come under the heading, "The Dangerous
Status and Security Measures," a section of the Penal Code under which
someone can be sentenced for up to four years in prison on the grounds that
the authorities believe the individual has a "special proclivity" to commit
crimes, even though he or she might not have actually committed a crime.
These articles broadly define "dangerous" people as those who act in a
manner that contradicts "socialist morality" or engage in "anti-social
behavior." Moreover, Article 75 provides for an "official warning" to people
the authorities deem to be in danger of becoming "dangerous," i.e., those
who are not yet "dangerous" but who are regarded as having criminal
tendencies because of their "ties or relations with people who are
potentially dangerous to society, other people, and to the social, economic
and political order of the socialist State."
The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights (IACHR) concludes that because
of "their lack of precision and their subjective nature," the legal
definitions of "dangerousness" and such terms as "socialist legality" and
"standards of socialist coexistence," constitute a source of juridical
insecurity which creates conditions permitting the Cuban authorities to take
arbitrary action.22

In other words, the Penal Code articles which define "dangerousness"
constitute a catch-all mechanism which gives the government the legal
justification for taking any citizen it wants out of circulation.

As Human Rights Watch/Americas stated in October 1995:
Cubans who engage in "anti-social behavior" or violate "socialist morality"
may be held in preventive detention under the "dangerousness" provisions of
the criminal code for as long as four years, even without
being convicted of a crime.23 According to Pax Christi Netherlands and
Amnesty International, there are clear indications that the crime of
"dangerousness" is used as a cover to imprison people for political reasons
on the grounds that they are common delinquents.24

The Penal Code also defines the crime of salida illegal del país,
"illegalexit from country." Under Penal Code Articles 216 and 217, those
caught trying to leave the country without the permission of the government
can be fined or imprisoned for up to three years if they have not used
violence and up to eight years if force or intimidation is used.

Footnotes:

22. Inter-American Commission on Human Rights, Organization of American
States (IACHR-OAS). "Cuba," Annual Report of the Inter-American Commission
on Human Rights 1996 (Washington, DC: 14 March 1997), p. 710.

23. Human Rights Watch/Americas. Cuba: Improvement Without Reform (New York:
October 1995), p. 9.

24. Pax Christi Netherlands. Cuba: The Reality Behind the Symbol (Utrecht,
The Netherlands: March 1996), p. 15. Amnesty International. Cuba: Hundreds
Imprisoned for "Dangerousness" (London: AMR 25/01/94, February 1994).

Source:

Cuba: Systematic Repression of Dissent
December 1998 (addressing country conditions through November 1997)
by Douglas Payne
http://www.worldpolicy.org/globalrights/carib/1997-cuba.html#penal

Cuba's penal code:

http://www.ruleoflawandcuba.fsu.edu/law-penal-code.cfm

The CDR VOP (Vigilancia y Orden Público- Vigilance and Public Order) Front
works directly with the uniformed police. At the end of the 1980s,
CDRs were reorganized, with each sector now consisting of several city
blocks with one person assigned control. Each morning, the sector controller
meets with the CDR officials (the president, vice-president, or other
official), particularly those in charge of VOP, at each block and obtain the
daily log of activities in that particular block.
The CDR officials have the duty to know the activities of each person in
their respective blocks. There is an individual file kept on each block
resident, some of which reveal the internal dynamics of households.
For this reason Maida Donate-Armada (1996) says that "perhaps the greatest
contribution (of the CDRs) to the history of world espionage may be to have
raised to the level of counterintelligence the daily gossip (chismes) and
disagreements (bretes) that go on at the neighborhood level. Citizens must
be careful of their actions and of what they say, as they are being
constantly monitored by the block CDR.
The structure consists of a president, vice-president, a treasurer, an
organizer, an official responsible for the work force, and another for
ideological control.
CDRs al include an important component, referred to as the CDR Vigilance and
Public Order Front (Vigilancia y Orden Público). After the September 1986
CDR Congress, a special component (front) was introduced to assist those
young people who neither work nor study. This division of the CDR is
referred to as the Prevention and Education Front.
This front notifies the police department of all pertinent information
regarding young people who are neither in school nor working.

CDR characteristics probably vary according to population size, prevalence
of common crime or acts against the state, extremism of the CDR authorities,
educational level, etc. An important variable is the lack of commitment of
the rank and file at the local level.
Militancy in CDRs is interchangeable with other organizations such as the
FMC, the Communist Party, or the League of Young Communists. Any militant of
the Party or of the Youth must show that he or she is a member of the CDRs
and/or FMC. These last two organizations, together with the Party and the
Youth are the most active at the local level. The statutes of the Cuban
Communist Party of Cuba, Chapter
VIII, Article 73, states:
"The Party guides and directs the work of the mass and social organizations,
based on the principle of full and conscious acceptance of its leadership
role and of the influence its members and aspirants have in the mass
organizations, while recognizing the organic independence of those
organizations."19

Within each block, there is one other agent who deals indirectly with the
CDRs: this person reports directly to an officer of the security apparatus
of the Ministry of Interior. Very rarely are the secret duties of this
person known to other block citizens or CDR officials. In order for a CDR
official to be informed of the duties of this person, there must be a
working relationship on a particular case.19. As quoted in Ritter (1985, p.
277).

The organization of the CDRs by sectors and blocks follows the
national-regional-province-municipalityzone-sector-block pyramid structure.
The sector controller holds a full-time job. They patrol on foot since they
do not have other means of transportation.Their work hours might vary from
9:00 a.m. to as late as 11:00 p.m. Most of them do not even live in the
sectors they patrol. The president of the CDR provides all pertinent
information to the sector controller.Frequently, however, the sector
controller does not trust the CDR president and usually verifies this
information with VOP Front Officials.
If enough evidence of wrongdoing is found regarding a particular citizen,
the sector controller meets with that individual. Three warnings are given
to each citizen, with the first two given in written form. After one
warning, the citizen's file is classified as category A; after two warnings,
as B. The third warning results in the arrest of the citizen and
classification of his or her file as category C.
There are national, provincial, municipal, and zone meetings for all CDR
presidents, who then pass on the information to their block officials and
citizens.
The VOP Front consists of people who have shown extreme loyalty to the
revolution, and who are willing to go to great means to discover wrongdoing.
The background of the Front officials varies from retirees to people who
have served in international missions.
The ideological control person usually has a college degree.
As is depicted in Figure 1, the Ministry of Interior and the CDRs have
parallel structures. Security bodies (intelligence and counterintelligence)
and police back-stop this mass organization. Designation of officials for
different posts within CDRs, especially for being in charge of "vigilance,"
are subject to consultation with the MININT officer in charge.
This network in turn is linked to the chiefs of "defense zones" and
territorial militia, which are the lower layer of the so-called "Republic of
Cuba's Unique System of Exploration" and the mobilization chain for any war
action. "Defense zones" are in charge of evacuating the civil population and
destroying cities and towns if the socialist system is in danger. These
activities are connected to the Ministry of Armed Forces.
There are "Voluntary Brigades of Activists" that are mobilized according to
instructions of the state security apparatus. The Brigades are sometimes
called into action by the police. They are the direct antecedent of the
so-called "Brigadas de Respuesta Rápida" (Quick Response Brigades) that hold
"repudiation meetings" in front of the homes of undesirable neighbors,
sometimes when it is known that they plan to leave the island. The Brigades
are a sort of para-military organization backed by the Cuban authorities
established for the purpose of harassing and fighting-physically sometimes,
with sticks, bricks, and hammers-dissident neighbors and families. The
notion of civil society is alien to the policies that the Cuban leadership
is pursuing at present. The theories of "transmission belts" and an
"enlightened vanguard" suit more closely regime's goals and modus operandi.
The essence of civil society lies in the possibility that social groups
could be autonomous, particularly from military and government tutelage and
control. This is impossible in today's Cuban society. The leadership has a
horizontal circulation system that allows the same faces and names to
transfer from government to mass organizations to military positions. This
revolving system has been operating for 36 years. The Party, the State and
mass organizations are intertwined. To claim that Cuban mass organizations
represent civil society is to deny that the latter has any right to exist as
an independent force. This is the kind of participation Nazi and fascist
regimes encourage, together with the "personality cult" of the leader. The
revolutionary leadership and the leader himself have designed a totalitarian
society; changes to the control mechanisms and reforms are attempts to
strengthen this grip.

http://lanic.utexas.edu/la/cb/cuba/asce/cuba6/36amaro.fm.pdf

Post by PL
Why don't you go and tell Israel or Saudi Arabia or Iran what kind of
government they can have? You are not even a real Cuban, go back to where
you came from and do something for your own people.

As soon as my family and friends in Cuba have their freedom of expression
and their respect of human rights I might.
But given the abuses that touch my family now I will continue to focus on
stating the truth about Cuba whether you like it or not.

PL

T.Schmidt

2005-04-04 23:16:53 UTC

"PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote in message news:Kvi4e.55414$***@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
< S N I P >

Post by PL
As soon as my family and friends in Cuba have their freedom of expression
and their respect of human rights I might.
But given the abuses that touch my family now I will continue to focus on
stating the truth about Cuba whether you like it or not.
PL

------------------------------
PL

[1] I am for freedom of expression, so if I do like or not what you say, I
still defend your right to say whatever your crooked mind invents.

[2] Let your friends and family in Cuba chose what they want. They are not
babies. I you want to really help, send them money. And visit them. There
are very ingeneous ways to avoid the blockade.

[3] Monarchies are not elected. Do you have anything against monarchies?
Have you protested the election of Bush? You are acting just like a
Stalinist, trying to force your odd political ideas upon the World. This is
the 21st century.

[4] I believe you are a gringo sympathizer of the worst kind, you will
repeat whatever they tell you. If we wait until Bush becomes King (or
Kaiser) you will be for monarchies.

[5] Have you tried to stand on your own two feet? If you know how to march
and keep your uniform clean you should volunteer for the Army.

[6] Don't overload the postings with unnecessary crap. I am an old person
and I have no time to play your games.

T.Schmidt

2005-04-04 22:37:44 UTC

Post by T.Schmidt
< S N I P >

------------------------------
PL
[1] I am for freedom of expression, so if I do like or not what you say, I
still defend your right to say whatever your crooked mind invents.

Please indicate what "my crooked mind" has "invented" according to you.
All the data I have posted was clearly referenced.

Post by T.Schmidt
[2] Let your friends and family in Cuba chose what they want. They are not
babies. I you want to really help, send them money. And visit them. There
are very ingeneous ways to avoid the blockade.

There is no "blockade" at all. Certainly not on sending money.
According to the Vietnamese news agency the US has shipped more than 4.9
million tons of food to Cuba in the last couple of years.
Funny "blockade" if you ask me.
http://www.vnagency.com.vn/NewsP.asp?LANGUAGE_ID=3&CATEGORY_ID=40&NEWS_ID=142232
(in French)
That is easy enough and given the fact that Castro raised the prices of
products in the dollar shops by 30 to 50% and has "revalued" the CUC with 8%
it takes about twice as much foreign currency to live in Cuba than a year
ago.
I know that very well.
But there is a difference between helping people by sending them money to
eat and survive and helping people to help themselves.
Stating the truth about Cuba and exposing the lies and human rights abuses
of the current regime will help them to live, not merely to survive.
Better to give a hungry man a fishing rod than a fish, no?
But then life is more than getting meat each week, no?
Freedom of speech. The right to no longer be treated as second class
citizens in your own country. All matter, no?
Unlike you I don't crave to create dependency, I want people to be free.

Post by T.Schmidt
[3] Monarchies are not elected. Do you have anything against monarchies?

Against absolute monarchies, yes.
Constitutional monarchies are very different. They can have a place in this
world.

Post by T.Schmidt
Have you protested the election of Bush?

On what grounds?
Was there fraude in the elections?
Was it anything but the expression of the free will of the US people?
What was the state vote? What was the national vote?$
Where were the violations of freedom of speech?
Where were ballot boxes stuffed, people intimidated or candidates imposed?
Nowhere as far as I can see.
So why protest?
The election of GW was a free expression of the will of a sovereign nation.
Why should I not respect that free expression.?
Your ugly hypocrisy raises its head again.

Post by T.Schmidt
You are acting just like a
Stalinist, trying to force your odd political ideas upon the World.

Nope.
Actually the opposite as anyone can read in this thread.
I have declared that I want to see the Cuban people able to express
themselves freely at the ballot box.
I have shown that they can not do so today.
As such I am the supporter of democracy and you are the supporter of a
totalitarian (Stalinist) system.
Funny you should accuse me falsely of being a Stalinist while "overlooking"
the fact that Castro is one.

Post by T.Schmidt
This is
the 21st century.

Yep and all dictators should have been gone by now.
Cuba still has a dictator listed on the website of genocide watch
(www.genocidewatch.org)
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocidetable.htm

Post by T.Schmidt
[4] I believe you are a gringo sympathizer of the worst kind, you will
repeat whatever they tell you. If we wait until Bush becomes King (or
Kaiser) you will be for monarchies.

unlike you (as being a subservient propagandist seems to be a natural state
to you) I form and express my own opinions based on the facts that I collect
from lots of different sources.
You are entitled to your beliefs, but I am entitled to disprove your public
statements reflecting your false beliefs and I will never be for monarchies.
But then a constitutional monarchy is better than a system of a "caudillo
president for life" like in Cuba, no?
Note that it was Frank Pais in the 1950's that referred to Castro as a
"caudillo".

Post by T.Schmidt
[5] Have you tried to stand on your own two feet? If you know how to march
and keep your uniform clean you should volunteer for the Army.

Never been in an army and never will be.
I prefer to think and act for myself and yes I can stand on my own two feet.
You seem to be dependent on others it seems as you seem to assume that all
are fed their opinions.
Is that from your own experience?
Let me tell you: there are different ways to live.

Post by T.Schmidt
[6] Don't overload the postings with unnecessary crap. I am an old person
and I have no time to play your games.

By "unnecessary crap" you seem to refer to the facts that expose your lies.
I can understand you hate the fact that I post them, but you will have to
learn how to live with that as I tend to provide sources and context instead
of resorting to the unfounded personal attacks you seem to prefer.
If you can't deal with reality, stay in your dogmatic ivory tower.

PL

T.Schmidt

2005-04-05 02:38:14 UTC

I have nothing to say, I will let others reach their own conclusions.

T.Schmidt
-----------------------------------

Post by T.Schmidt
< S N I P >

------------------------------
PL
[1] I am for freedom of expression, so if I do like or not what you say, I
still defend your right to say whatever your crooked mind invents.

Please indicate what "my crooked mind" has "invented" according to you.
All the data I have posted was clearly referenced.

http://www.vnagency.com.vn/NewsP.asp?LANGUAGE_ID=3&CATEGORY_ID=40&NEWS_ID=142232

Post by PL
(in French)
That is easy enough and given the fact that Castro raised the prices of
products in the dollar shops by 30 to 50% and has "revalued" the CUC with 8%
it takes about twice as much foreign currency to live in Cuba than a year
ago.
I know that very well.
But there is a difference between helping people by sending them money to
eat and survive and helping people to help themselves.
Stating the truth about Cuba and exposing the lies and human rights abuses
of the current regime will help them to live, not merely to survive.
Better to give a hungry man a fishing rod than a fish, no?
But then life is more than getting meat each week, no?
Freedom of speech. The right to no longer be treated as second class
citizens in your own country. All matter, no?
Unlike you I don't crave to create dependency, I want people to be free.

Post by T.Schmidt
[3] Monarchies are not elected. Do you have anything against monarchies?

Against absolute monarchies, yes.
Constitutional monarchies are very different. They can have a place in this
world.

Post by T.Schmidt
Have you protested the election of Bush?

Post by T.Schmidt
You are acting just like a
Stalinist, trying to force your odd political ideas upon the World.

"overlooking"

Post by PL
the fact that Castro is one.

Post by T.Schmidt
This is
the 21st century.

Yep and all dictators should have been gone by now.
Cuba still has a dictator listed on the website of genocide watch
(www.genocidewatch.org)
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocidetable.htm

Post by T.Schmidt
[4] I believe you are a gringo sympathizer of the worst kind, you will
repeat whatever they tell you. If we wait until Bush becomes King (or
Kaiser) you will be for monarchies.

Post by T.Schmidt
[5] Have you tried to stand on your own two feet? If you know how to march
and keep your uniform clean you should volunteer for the Army.

Post by T.Schmidt
[6] Don't overload the postings with unnecessary crap. I am an old person
and I have no time to play your games.

2005-04-05 11:37:41 UTC

Post by T.Schmidt
I have nothing to say, I will let others reach their own conclusions.

I agree.
Let them figure out why you snipped and never answered this question;

"and prey how can you know if a country has no freedom of expression and
repressive laws like these below what the people really want?
If there is no free expression of the popular will possible how can you say
what the people wants?"

It says it all, doesn't it?

Get a life.

PL

Post by T.Schmidt
-----------------------------------

Post by T.Schmidt
< S N I P >

Post by PL
As soon as my family and friends in Cuba have their freedom of

expression

Post by T.Schmidt

Post by PL
and their respect of human rights I might.
But given the abuses that touch my family now I will continue to focus

Post by T.Schmidt

Post by PL
stating the truth about Cuba whether you like it or not.
PL

------------------------------
PL
[1] I am for freedom of expression, so if I do like or not what you
say,

Post by T.Schmidt
still defend your right to say whatever your crooked mind invents.

Please indicate what "my crooked mind" has "invented" according to you.
All the data I have posted was clearly referenced.

Post by T.Schmidt
[2] Let your friends and family in Cuba chose what they want. They are

not

Post by T.Schmidt
babies. I you want to really help, send them money. And visit them.

There

Post by T.Schmidt
are very ingeneous ways to avoid the blockade.

http://www.vnagency.com.vn/NewsP.asp?LANGUAGE_ID=3&CATEGORY_ID=40&NEWS_ID=142232

Post by PL
(in French)
That is easy enough and given the fact that Castro raised the prices of
products in the dollar shops by 30 to 50% and has "revalued" the CUC with

Post by PL
it takes about twice as much foreign currency to live in Cuba than a year
ago.
I know that very well.
But there is a difference between helping people by sending them money to
eat and survive and helping people to help themselves.
Stating the truth about Cuba and exposing the lies and human rights abuses
of the current regime will help them to live, not merely to survive.
Better to give a hungry man a fishing rod than a fish, no?
But then life is more than getting meat each week, no?
Freedom of speech. The right to no longer be treated as second class
citizens in your own country. All matter, no?
Unlike you I don't crave to create dependency, I want people to be free.

Post by T.Schmidt
[3] Monarchies are not elected. Do you have anything against monarchies?

Against absolute monarchies, yes.
Constitutional monarchies are very different. They can have a place in

this

Post by PL
world.

Post by T.Schmidt
Have you protested the election of Bush?

nation.

Post by PL
Why should I not respect that free expression.?
Your ugly hypocrisy raises its head again.

Post by T.Schmidt
You are acting just like a
Stalinist, trying to force your odd political ideas upon the World.

"overlooking"

Post by PL
the fact that Castro is one.

Post by T.Schmidt
This is
the 21st century.

Yep and all dictators should have been gone by now.
Cuba still has a dictator listed on the website of genocide watch
(www.genocidewatch.org)
http://www.genocidewatch.org/genocidetable.htm

Post by T.Schmidt
[4] I believe you are a gringo sympathizer of the worst kind, you will
repeat whatever they tell you. If we wait until Bush becomes King (or
Kaiser) you will be for monarchies.

unlike you (as being a subservient propagandist seems to be a natural

state

Post by PL
to you) I form and express my own opinions based on the facts that I

collect

Post by PL
from lots of different sources.
You are entitled to your beliefs, but I am entitled to disprove your

public

Post by PL
statements reflecting your false beliefs and I will never be for

monarchies.

Post by PL
But then a constitutional monarchy is better than a system of a "caudillo
president for life" like in Cuba, no?
Note that it was Frank Pais in the 1950's that referred to Castro as a
"caudillo".

Post by T.Schmidt
[5] Have you tried to stand on your own two feet? If you know how to

march

Post by T.Schmidt
and keep your uniform clean you should volunteer for the Army.

Never been in an army and never will be.
I prefer to think and act for myself and yes I can stand on my own two

feet.

Post by PL
You seem to be dependent on others it seems as you seem to assume that all
are fed their opinions.
Is that from your own experience?
Let me tell you: there are different ways to live.

Post by T.Schmidt
[6] Don't overload the postings with unnecessary crap. I am an old

person

Post by T.Schmidt
and I have no time to play your games.

By "unnecessary crap" you seem to refer to the facts that expose your

lies.

Post by PL
I can understand you hate the fact that I post them, but you will have to
learn how to live with that as I tend to provide sources and context

instead

Post by PL
of resorting to the unfounded personal attacks you seem to prefer.
If you can't deal with reality, stay in your dogmatic ivory tower.
PL

Raphy

2005-04-10 02:31:43 UTC

Batista era comunista?

Post by T.Schmidt
If you are against Communism, ¿why are you for Batista? To me it sounds like
you are just trying to replace Castro with something worse.
T.Schmidt
-------------------------------------

(and

Post by T.Schmidt
Bullshit. Everything you say is just to overthrow Castro and take power

Post by PL
The Cubans would be a lot better off without any dictator (Batista or
Castro) and their common allies: the communists.
PL

Post by T.Schmidt
Qué chiflados estáis. Si estaban mejor con Batista y sus comunistas,

¿por

Post by T.Schmidt
qué no se quedaron con los dos?
T.Schmidt

2005-04-10 10:08:06 UTC

Batista no era communista.
Los communistas en Cuba eran vinculadas con Batista.
En 1940 los communistas appoyaron a Batista durante las eleciones.
Condenaron el ataque de la Moncada por Fidel y la revolucion.
Cambiaron de posicion solamente fin 1958 (con algunos excepciones).
Despus apoyaron a Castro para cojer el poder de los revolucionarios democraticos.
Che y Castro ellos mismos dijeron que la revolucion no era communista.

"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation
movement that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12
12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.
Cuba before the revolution:
Were the elements conducive to a communist revolution in place?
Cuba was the third developed nation in the Americas. In certain indicators
of development it beat European nations like Spain, Portugal and even
Belgium in the early 1950's.

see: http://www.state.gov/p/wha/ci/14776.htm

"Armando Hart, a member of Castro's innermost ruling group, made the
extremely significant observation that:
. . . it is certain that capitalism had attained high levels of
organization, efficiency and production that declined after the
Revolution. . . (Juventud Rebelde, November 2, 1969; quoted by Rene Dumont,
Is Cuba Socialist?)

Paul A. Baran, an ardent pro-Castroite in the equally ardent Monthly Review
pamphlet, Reflections on the Cuban Revolution (1961) substantiates what
every economist, as well as amateurs like Castro, has been saying:
...the Cuban Revolution was born with a silver spoon in its mouth. .

.the world renowned French agronomist, Rene Dumont, has estimated that if
properly cultivated as intensively as South China, Cuba could feed fifty
million people. . . the Cuban Revolution is spared the painful, but
ineluctable compulsion that has beset preceding socialist revolutions: the
necessity to force tightening of people's belts in order to lay the
foundations for a better tomorrow. . .(p. 23)

Theodore Draper quotes Anial Escalante, (before he was purged by Castro) one
of the leading communists, who admitted that:
...in reality, Cuba was not one of the countries with the lowest standard of
living of the masses in America, but on the contrary, one of the highest
standards of living, and it was here where the first great . . . democratic
social revolution of the continent burst forth. . . If the historical
development had been dictated by the false axiom [revolutions come first in
poorest countries] the revolution should have been first produced in Haiti,
Colombia or even Chile, countries of greater poverty for the masses than the
Cuba of 1958. . . (quoted in Draper's Castro's Revolution: Myths and
Realities; New York, 1962,
p. 22)

see: Anarchists Archive - Dolgoff

Castro himself admitted that there was no hunger in Cuba:

Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis
and no hunger in Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise
and Fall of Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)

Batista and the Communists.
Where were the communists during the Cuban revolution? If we believe Fidel
Castro not on the side of the revolution:

In the course of the guerrilla struggle in the Sierra Maestra mountains, he
(Castro) delivered another speech which, once again, stresses his distance
from the Communists:

"What right does Senor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party ... his
portrait hung next to Blas Roca's and Lazaro Pena's; and half a dozen
ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP."
H.M. Enzenburger, Raids and Reconstructions, London, 1976, p.200.

See: http://www.marxisme.dk/arkiv/binns/80-cucas.htm

A version of the facts confirmed in this (Marxist) source:

In November 1940, the communists supported Batista's candidates in the
elections to the Constituent Assembly. In return for their support, Batista
allowed the communists to organize and control the government sponsored
union, Cuban Confederation of Labor (CTC Confederacion de Trabajadores de
Cuba) The first Secretary General of the CTC was Lazaro Pena--who,
ironically, enough, held the same post in the Castro regime. In exchange for
these favors the communists guaranteed Batista labor peace. In line with the
Communist Party's "Popular Front Against Fascism" policy, the alliance of
the Communist Party with the Batista was officially consumated when the
Party joined the Batista government. The Communist Party leaders Carlos
Rafael Rodriguez and Juan Marinello (who now hold high posts in the Castro
government) became Ministers Without Portfolio in Batista's Cabinet. To
illustrate the intimate connections between the communists and Batista, we
quote from a letter of Batista to Blas Roca, Secretary of the Communist
Party:

June 13,1944
Dear Blas,
With respect to your letter which our mutual friend, Dr. Carlos Rafael
Rodriguez, Minister Without Portfolio, passed to me, I am happy to again
express my firm unshakeable confidence in the loyal cooperation the People's
Socialist Party [the then official name of the Communist Party of Cuba] its
leaders and members have given and continue to give myself and my
government. . .

Believe me, as always, Your very affectionate and cordial friend,
Fulgencio Batista

In the electoral campaign the Communist candidates won ten seats in the
Cuban parliament and more than a hundred posts in the Municipal councils.

In line with their pro-Batista policy the communists joined Batista in
condemning Fidel Castro's attack on the Moncada Barracks (July 1953 -- the
anniversary of the attack is a national holiday in Castro Cuba)
. . . the life of the People's Socialist Party (communist). . . has been to
combat . . . and unmask the putschists and adventurous activities of the
bourgeois opposition as being against the interests of the people. . .
(reported in Daily Worker, U.S organ of the Communist Party, August 10,
1953)
Throughout the Batista period the communists pursued two parallel policies:
overtly they criticized Batista and covertly they cooperated with him.

See:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html

From the International Socialist Review:

Cuba had been run by dictator Fulgencio Batista since 1934. His regime was
corrupt and brutal. Although fully supported by the U.S., Batista was hated
by everyone except for his immediate collaborators and hangers-on. In the
late 1950s, this regime had no true left opposition. Gangsters ran the
unions. The Communist Party (CP)-known at the time as the Popular Socialist
Party (PSP)-was, like other Communist Parties of the 1930s, a useful
instrument of Stalin's foreign policy. However, the PSP had decomposed far
more than the average CP. It was linked to the Batista regime to such an
extent that Castro could say,

What right does Señor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party.his portrait
hung next to [Communist leaders] Blas Roca's and Lazaro Peña's; and half a
dozen ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP.(10)

The opposition to Batista that existed in the cities was overwhelmingly
middle class, organized around the Instituciones Cívicas. Another component
of the opposition was the student movement-also middle-class oriented.
Although it would be a mistake to say that workers did not participate in
opposition activity, their participation was not independent. Instead of
putting forward their own class demands, workers were participants in a
movement that was united in its shared hatred of Batista's regime.
Castro's July 26th Movement was made up for the most part of intellectuals,
students, professionals and a limited number of peasants. Not only were its
members mostly middle class, but its politics were decidedly middle class,
too. It emphasized modest land reform and the development of Cuban
capitalism without the obstructions of big business or imperialism. The
guerrilla movement began its life in 1953 with an attack on the Moncada
Barracks. In 1956, it re-launched its guerrilla struggle when it took to the
Sierra Maestra mountains. The guerrilla strategy was one that explicitly
rejected workers as the main revolutionary force. Che Guevara-who later
became the worldwide symbol of guerrilla struggle-considered Cuban workers
to be complacent and bought off by the system. In fact, he considered the
cities an obstacle in the struggle:

It is more difficult to prepare guerrilla bands in those countries that have
undergone a concentration of population in great centers and have
developed light and medium industry.The ideological influence of the cities
inhibits the guerrilla struggle.11

In the first year of the revolution, Guevara explicitly denied its class
character:

"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation movement
that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12

10 Quoted in H. M. Enzenburguer, Raids and Reconstructions: Essays on
Politics, Crime, and Culture (London: Pluto Press, 1976), p. 200.

11 Quoted in T. Cliff, Deflected Permanent Revolution (London:
Bookmarks,1986), pp. 14-15. Originally in C. Guevara, "Cuba: Exceptional
Case?"Monthly Review (NY), July/August 1961, pp. 65-66.

12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.

See: http://www.isreview.org/issues/11/cuba_crisis.shtml

Inside the Cuban Revolution
Fidel Castro and the Urban Underground.
By : Julia E. Sweig

Julia Sweig shatters the mythology surrounding the Cuban Revolution in a
compelling revisionist history that reconsiders the revolutionary roles of
Fidel Castro and Che Guevara and restores to a central position the
leadership of the Cuban urban underground, the Llano.
Granted unprecedented access to the classified records of Castro's 26th of
July Movement's underground operatives--the only scholar inside or outside
of Cuba allowed access to the complete collection in the Cuban Council of
State's Office of Historic Affairs--she details the ideological, political,
and strategic debates between Castro's mountain-based guerrilla movement and
the urban revolutionaries in Havana, Santiago, and other cities.

In a close study of the fifteen months from November 1956 to July 1958, when
the urban underground leadership was dominant, Sweig examines the debate
between the two groups over whether to wage guerrilla warfare in the
countryside or armed insurrection in the cities, and is the first to
document the extent of Castro's cooperation with the Llano. She unveils the
essential role of the urban underground, led by such figures as Frank País,
Armando Hart, Haydée Santamaria, Enrique Oltuski, and Faustino Pérez, in
controlling critical decisions on tactics, strategy, allocation of
resources, and
relations with opposition forces, political parties, Cuban exiles, even the
United States--contradicting the standard view of Castro as the primary
decision maker during the revolution.

In revealing the true relationship between Castro and the urban underground,
Sweig redefines the history of the Cuban Revolution, offering guideposts for
understanding Cuban politics in the 1960s and raising intriguing questions
for the future transition of power in Cuba.

See: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/SWEINS.html

From: www.cubaverdad.org

PL

"Raphy" <***@verizon.net> wrote in message news:je06e.2890$***@trndny07...
Batista era comunista?

T.Schmidt wrote:
If you are against Communism, ¿why are you for Batista? To me it sounds like
you are just trying to replace Castro with something worse.

T.Schmidt
-------------------------------------

"PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote in message news:gi94e.54780$***@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
I do not want to "take power" in Cuba.
I want to give the Cuban people, powerless today, the power they are
entitled to as a sovereign nation.
The people of Cuba (in exile and on the island) are the only ones that can
claim the right to sovereignty.
A free and fair election where ALL can stand and all can vote is the only
way ahead.
You have to admit that Castro is part of the problem and not part of the
solution.
NO dictatorship is good. Not Batista's, not Castro's.
The fact they both had the communist as allies shows that something is
(and
was) very wrong.
Frank Pais, Santiagero - revolutionary, was right about Castro: he is a
"caudillo" like Batista and like Pinochet and ........
Democracy, freedom of speech and respect of human rights.
That is what I advocate.
Dictator left, dictator right, dictator wrong.
My grandfather was put in jail by both Stalin and Hitler. I don't need any
lessons from you about dictators. I already had an in depth course. that
includes from my wife and my experiences in Eastern Europe and Cuba.

PL

"T.Schmidt" <***@sprint.ca> wrote in message news:Y084e.2846$***@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
Bullshit. Everything you say is just to overthrow Castro and take power
in
Cuba.

But to take power in Cuba you are counting on Cubans being gullible and
selfish people. The truth is that the extreme right is worse than the
Communists and you cannot fool any one.

T.Schmidt
P.S. Dios castiga por donde más duele y el castigo de Uds. ha sido
quedarse
sin patria. El que no ama a su patria, la pierde.
-----------------------------------
"PL" <***@pandora.be> wrote in message news:DP74e.54603$***@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
The Cubans would be a lot better off without any dictator (Batista or
Castro) and their common allies: the communists.

PL

"T.Schmidt" <***@sprint.ca> wrote in message news:3D74e.2845$***@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
Qué chiflados estáis. Si estaban mejor con Batista y sus comunistas,
¿por
qué no se quedaron con los dos?

T.Schmidt

Raphy

2005-04-10 15:36:07 UTC

gracias por la informacion

Post by PL
Batista no era communista.
Los communistas en Cuba eran vinculadas con Batista.
En 1940 los communistas appoyaron a Batista durante las eleciones.
Condenaron el ataque de la Moncada por Fidel y la revolucion.
Cambiaron de posicion solamente fin 1958 (con algunos excepciones).
Despus apoyaron a Castro para cojer el poder de los revolucionarios democraticos.
Che y Castro ellos mismos dijeron que la revolucion no era communista.
"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation
movement that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12
12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.
Were the elements conducive to a communist revolution in place?
Cuba was the third developed nation in the Americas. In certain indicators
of development it beat European nations like Spain, Portugal and even
Belgium in the early 1950's.
see: http://www.state.gov/p/wha/ci/14776.htm
"Armando Hart, a member of Castro's innermost ruling group, made the
. . . it is certain that capitalism had attained high levels of
organization, efficiency and production that declined after the
Revolution. . . (Juventud Rebelde, November 2, 1969; quoted by Rene Dumont,
Is Cuba Socialist?)
Paul A. Baran, an ardent pro-Castroite in the equally ardent Monthly Review
pamphlet, Reflections on the Cuban Revolution (1961) substantiates what
...the Cuban Revolution was born with a silver spoon in its mouth. .
.the world renowned French agronomist, Rene Dumont, has estimated that if
properly cultivated as intensively as South China, Cuba could feed fifty
million people. . . the Cuban Revolution is spared the painful, but
ineluctable compulsion that has beset preceding socialist revolutions: the
necessity to force tightening of people's belts in order to lay the
foundations for a better tomorrow. . .(p. 23)
Theodore Draper quotes Anial Escalante, (before he was purged by Castro) one
...in reality, Cuba was not one of the countries with the lowest standard of
living of the masses in America, but on the contrary, one of the highest
standards of living, and it was here where the first great . . . democratic
social revolution of the continent burst forth. . . If the historical
development had been dictated by the false axiom [revolutions come first in
poorest countries] the revolution should have been first produced in Haiti,
Colombia or even Chile, countries of greater poverty for the masses than the
Cuba of 1958. . . (quoted in Draper's Castro's Revolution: Myths and
Realities; New York, 1962,
p. 22)
see: Anarchists Archive - Dolgoff
Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis
and no hunger in Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise
and Fall of Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)
Batista and the Communists.
Where were the communists during the Cuban revolution? If we believe Fidel
In the course of the guerrilla struggle in the Sierra Maestra
mountains, he
(Castro) delivered another speech which, once again, stresses his distance
"What right does Senor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party ... his
portrait hung next to Blas Roca's and Lazaro Pena's; and half a dozen
ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP."
H.M. Enzenburger, Raids and Reconstructions, London, 1976, p.200.
See: http://www.marxisme.dk/arkiv/binns/80-cucas.htm
In November 1940, the communists supported Batista's candidates in the
elections to the Constituent Assembly. In return for their support, Batista
allowed the communists to organize and control the government sponsored
union, Cuban Confederation of Labor (CTC Confederacion de Trabajadores de
Cuba) The first Secretary General of the CTC was Lazaro Pena--who,
ironically, enough, held the same post in the Castro regime. In exchange for
these favors the communists guaranteed Batista labor peace. In line with the
Communist Party's "Popular Front Against Fascism" policy, the alliance of
the Communist Party with the Batista was officially consumated when the
Party joined the Batista government. The Communist Party leaders Carlos
Rafael Rodriguez and Juan Marinello (who now hold high posts in the Castro
government) became Ministers Without Portfolio in Batista's Cabinet. To
illustrate the intimate connections between the communists and
Batista, we
quote from a letter of Batista to Blas Roca, Secretary of the Communist
June 13,1944
Dear Blas,
With respect to your letter which our mutual friend, Dr. Carlos Rafael
Rodriguez, Minister Without Portfolio, passed to me, I am happy to again
express my firm unshakeable confidence in the loyal cooperation the People's
Socialist Party [the then official name of the Communist Party of Cuba] its
leaders and members have given and continue to give myself and my
government. . .
Believe me, as always, Your very affectionate and cordial friend,
Fulgencio Batista
In the electoral campaign the Communist candidates won ten seats in the
Cuban parliament and more than a hundred posts in the Municipal councils.
In line with their pro-Batista policy the communists joined Batista in
condemning Fidel Castro's attack on the Moncada Barracks (July 1953 -- the
anniversary of the attack is a national holiday in Castro Cuba)
. . . the life of the People's Socialist Party (communist). . . has been to
combat . . . and unmask the putschists and adventurous activities of the
bourgeois opposition as being against the interests of the people. . .
(reported in Daily Worker, U.S organ of the Communist Party, August 10,
1953)
overtly they criticized Batista and covertly they cooperated with him.
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html
Cuba had been run by dictator Fulgencio Batista since 1934. His regime was
corrupt and brutal. Although fully supported by the U.S., Batista was hated
by everyone except for his immediate collaborators and hangers-on. In the
late 1950s, this regime had no true left opposition. Gangsters ran the
unions. The Communist Party (CP)-known at the time as the Popular Socialist
Party (PSP)-was, like other Communist Parties of the 1930s, a useful
instrument of Stalin's foreign policy. However, the PSP had decomposed far
more than the average CP. It was linked to the Batista regime to such an
extent that Castro could say,
What right does Señor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party.his portrait
hung next to [Communist leaders] Blas Roca's and Lazaro Peña's; and half a
dozen ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP.(10)
The opposition to Batista that existed in the cities was overwhelmingly
middle class, organized around the Instituciones Cívicas. Another component
of the opposition was the student movement-also middle-class oriented.
Although it would be a mistake to say that workers did not participate in
opposition activity, their participation was not independent. Instead of
putting forward their own class demands, workers were participants in a
movement that was united in its shared hatred of Batista's regime.
Castro's July 26th Movement was made up for the most part of
intellectuals,
students, professionals and a limited number of peasants. Not only were its
members mostly middle class, but its politics were decidedly middle class,
too. It emphasized modest land reform and the development of Cuban
capitalism without the obstructions of big business or imperialism. The
guerrilla movement began its life in 1953 with an attack on the Moncada
Barracks. In 1956, it re-launched its guerrilla struggle when it took to the
Sierra Maestra mountains. The guerrilla strategy was one that explicitly
rejected workers as the main revolutionary force. Che Guevara-who later
became the worldwide symbol of guerrilla struggle-considered Cuban workers
to be complacent and bought off by the system. In fact, he considered the
It is more difficult to prepare guerrilla bands in those countries that have
undergone a concentration of population in great centers and have
developed light and medium industry.The ideological influence of the cities
inhibits the guerrilla struggle.11
In the first year of the revolution, Guevara explicitly denied its class
"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation movement
that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12
10 Quoted in H. M. Enzenburguer, Raids and Reconstructions: Essays on
Politics, Crime, and Culture (London: Pluto Press, 1976), p. 200.
Bookmarks,1986), pp. 14-15. Originally in C. Guevara, "Cuba: Exceptional
Case?"Monthly Review (NY), July/August 1961, pp. 65-66.
12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.
See: http://www.isreview.org/issues/11/cuba_crisis.shtml
Inside the Cuban Revolution
Fidel Castro and the Urban Underground.
By : Julia E. Sweig
Julia Sweig shatters the mythology surrounding the Cuban Revolution in a
compelling revisionist history that reconsiders the revolutionary roles of
Fidel Castro and Che Guevara and restores to a central position the
leadership of the Cuban urban underground, the Llano.
Granted unprecedented access to the classified records of Castro's 26th of
July Movement's underground operatives--the only scholar inside or outside
of Cuba allowed access to the complete collection in the Cuban Council of
State's Office of Historic Affairs--she details the ideological, political,
and strategic debates between Castro's mountain-based guerrilla movement and
the urban revolutionaries in Havana, Santiago, and other cities.
In a close study of the fifteen months from November 1956 to July 1958, when
the urban underground leadership was dominant, Sweig examines the debate
between the two groups over whether to wage guerrilla warfare in the
countryside or armed insurrection in the cities, and is the first to
document the extent of Castro's cooperation with the Llano. She unveils the
essential role of the urban underground, led by such figures as Frank País,
Armando Hart, Haydée Santamaria, Enrique Oltuski, and Faustino Pérez, in
controlling critical decisions on tactics, strategy, allocation of
resources, and
relations with opposition forces, political parties, Cuban exiles, even the
United States--contradicting the standard view of Castro as the primary
decision maker during the revolution.
In revealing the true relationship between Castro and the urban underground,
Sweig redefines the history of the Cuban Revolution, offering
guideposts for
understanding Cuban politics in the 1960s and raising intriguing questions
for the future transition of power in Cuba.
See: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/SWEINS.html
From: www.cubaverdad.org <http://www.cubaverdad.org>
PL
Batista era comunista?

(and

Post by T.Schmidt
Bullshit. Everything you say is just to overthrow Castro and take power

Post by PL
The Cubans would be a lot better off without any dictator (Batista or
Castro) and their common allies: the communists.
PL

Post by T.Schmidt
Qué chiflados estáis. Si estaban mejor con Batista y sus comunistas,

¿por

Post by T.Schmidt
qué no se quedaron con los dos?
T.Schmidt

krp

2005-04-10 14:23:37 UTC

"Raphy" <***@verizon.net> wrote in message news:je06e.2890$***@trndny07...
Batista era comunista?

T.Schmidt wrote:
If you are against Communism, ¿why are you for Batista? To me it sounds like
you are just trying to replace Castro with something worse.

Did you know Batista ran under the Communist banner? AT one time he was
THEIR boy in Havana?

George

2005-04-04 14:00:34 UTC

Post by T.Schmidt
Qué chiflados estáis. Si estaban mejor con Batista y sus comunistas, ¿por
qué no se quedaron con los dos?

Pero es verdad.

Si Doris no lo sabia todavia, ahora lo sabe: Batista tenia excelentes
relaciones con el Partido Comunista de Cuba (prosovietico). El verdugo
más famoso batistiano, su mano derecha habia sido comisario de brigada
durante la guerra civil en España, jefe politico de las unidades
latinoamericanas alli y miembro del CC del PC de Cuba.

Saludos,
George

Post by T.Schmidt
T.Schmidt
---------------------------------

Dumont,

Post by PL
Is Cuba Socialist?)
Paul A. Baran, an ardent pro-Castroite in the equally ardent Monthly

Review

one

Post by PL
...in reality, Cuba was not one of the countries with the lowest standard

Post by PL
living of the masses in America, but on the contrary, one of the highest
standards of living, and it was here where the first great . . .

democratic

Post by PL
social revolution of the continent burst forth. . . If the historical
development had been dictated by the false axiom [revolutions come first

Post by PL
poorest countries] the revolution should have been first produced in

Haiti,

Post by PL
Colombia or even Chile, countries of greater poverty for the masses than

the

Rise

Post by PL
(Castro) delivered another speech which, once again, stresses his distance
"What right does Senor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in

the

Batista

for

Post by PL
these favors the communists guaranteed Batista labor peace. In line with

the

People's

Post by PL
Socialist Party [the then official name of the Communist Party of Cuba]

its

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html

Post by PL
Cuba had been run by dictator Fulgencio Batista since 1934. His regime was
corrupt and brutal. Although fully supported by the U.S., Batista was

hated

Socialist

the

component

intellectuals,

Post by PL
students, professionals and a limited number of peasants. Not only were

its

the

have

Post by PL
undergone a concentration of population in great centers and have
developed light and medium industry.The ideological influence of the

cities

political,

Post by PL
and strategic debates between Castro's mountain-based guerrilla movement

and

Post by PL
the urban revolutionaries in Havana, Santiago, and other cities.
In a close study of the fifteen months from November 1956 to July 1958,

when

the

Post by PL
essential role of the urban underground, led by such figures as Frank

País,

the

Post by PL
United States--contradicting the standard view of Castro as the primary
decision maker during the revolution.
In revealing the true relationship between Castro and the urban

underground,

Post by PL
Sweig redefines the history of the Cuban Revolution, offering guideposts

for

T.Schmidt

2005-04-04 16:14:36 UTC

Los gringos tenían excelentes relaciones con Stalin. Hasta hacían películas
glorificándolo.

T.Schmidt
P.S. Por cierto, ¿has oído de la organización Gehlen?
---------------------------------------

Post by George

Post by T.Schmidt
Qué chiflados estáis. Si estaban mejor con Batista y sus comunistas, ¿por
qué no se quedaron con los dos?

Pero es verdad.
Si Doris no lo sabia todavia, ahora lo sabe: Batista tenia excelentes
relaciones con el Partido Comunista de Cuba (prosovietico). El verdugo
más famoso batistiano, su mano derecha habia sido comisario de brigada
durante la guerra civil en España, jefe politico de las unidades
latinoamericanas alli y miembro del CC del PC de Cuba.
Saludos,
George

Post by T.Schmidt
T.Schmidt
---------------------------------

Dumont,

Post by PL
Is Cuba Socialist?)
Paul A. Baran, an ardent pro-Castroite in the equally ardent Monthly

Review

one

Post by PL
...in reality, Cuba was not one of the countries with the lowest standard

Post by PL
living of the masses in America, but on the contrary, one of the highest
standards of living, and it was here where the first great . . .

democratic

Post by PL
social revolution of the continent burst forth. . . If the historical
development had been dictated by the false axiom [revolutions come first

Post by PL
poorest countries] the revolution should have been first produced in

Haiti,

Post by PL
Colombia or even Chile, countries of greater poverty for the masses than

the

Rise

Post by PL
(Castro) delivered another speech which, once again, stresses his distance
"What right does Senor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in

the

Batista

for

Post by PL
these favors the communists guaranteed Batista labor peace. In line with

the

People's

Post by PL
Socialist Party [the then official name of the Communist Party of Cuba]

its

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html

Post by George

Post by T.Schmidt

Post by PL
Cuba had been run by dictator Fulgencio Batista since 1934. His regime was
corrupt and brutal. Although fully supported by the U.S., Batista was

hated

Socialist

the

component

intellectuals,

Post by PL
students, professionals and a limited number of peasants. Not only were

its

the

have

Post by PL
undergone a concentration of population in great centers and have
developed light and medium industry.The ideological influence of the

cities

political,

Post by PL
and strategic debates between Castro's mountain-based guerrilla movement

and

Post by PL
the urban revolutionaries in Havana, Santiago, and other cities.
In a close study of the fifteen months from November 1956 to July 1958,

when

the

Post by PL
essential role of the urban underground, led by such figures as Frank

País,

the

Post by PL
United States--contradicting the standard view of Castro as the primary
decision maker during the revolution.
In revealing the true relationship between Castro and the urban

underground,

Post by PL
Sweig redefines the history of the Cuban Revolution, offering guideposts

for

Observador

2005-04-04 10:35:32 UTC

This is like a resurrection. You have exposed the lies, fabrications and
dishonesty of the totalitarian terrorist regime in cuba. I call it terrorist because
the captives of that island prison are no better off than the prisoners beeing held
in Guantanamo.
What a pathetic legacy is this dictator goint to leave to his people? the same legacy
Stalin, Mao and characters like Chiachesku of Rumania left to their people, a figure
of scorn and revile by the cuban people.

What Doris would also like you to forget is that in 1940 Bastista was
supported by the Cuban communists and that they continued to support him
until close to his fall.
The Cuban communists condemned the Castro attack on the Moncada and Castri
refuted being a communist.
"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation
movement that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12
12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.
Were the elements conducive to a communist revolution in place?
Cuba was the third developed nation in the Americas. In certain indicators
of development it beat European nations like Spain, Portugal and even
Belgium in the early 1950's.
see: http://www.state.gov/p/wha/ci/14776.htm
"Armando Hart, a member of Castro's innermost ruling group, made the
. . . it is certain that capitalism had attained high levels of
organization, efficiency and production that declined after the
Revolution. . . (Juventud Rebelde, November 2, 1969; quoted by Rene Dumont,
Is Cuba Socialist?)
Paul A. Baran, an ardent pro-Castroite in the equally ardent Monthly Review
pamphlet, Reflections on the Cuban Revolution (1961) substantiates what
...the Cuban Revolution was born with a silver spoon in its mouth. .
.the world renowned French agronomist, Rene Dumont, has estimated that if
properly cultivated as intensively as South China, Cuba could feed fifty
million people. . . the Cuban Revolution is spared the painful, but
ineluctable compulsion that has beset preceding socialist revolutions: the
necessity to force tightening of people's belts in order to lay the
foundations for a better tomorrow. . .(p. 23)
Theodore Draper quotes Anial Escalante, (before he was purged by Castro) one
...in reality, Cuba was not one of the countries with the lowest standard of
living of the masses in America, but on the contrary, one of the highest
standards of living, and it was here where the first great . . . democratic
social revolution of the continent burst forth. . . If the historical
development had been dictated by the false axiom [revolutions come first in
poorest countries] the revolution should have been first produced in Haiti,
Colombia or even Chile, countries of greater poverty for the masses than the
Cuba of 1958. . . (quoted in Draper's Castro's Revolution: Myths and
Realities; New York, 1962,
p. 22)
see: Anarchists Archive - Dolgoff
Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis
and no hunger in Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise
and Fall of Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)
Batista and the Communists.
Where were the communists during the Cuban revolution? If we believe Fidel
In the course of the guerrilla struggle in the Sierra Maestra mountains, he
(Castro) delivered another speech which, once again, stresses his distance
"What right does Senor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party ... his
portrait hung next to Blas Roca's and Lazaro Pena's; and half a dozen
ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP."
H.M. Enzenburger, Raids and Reconstructions, London, 1976, p.200.
See: http://www.marxisme.dk/arkiv/binns/80-cucas.htm
In November 1940, the communists supported Batista's candidates in the
elections to the Constituent Assembly. In return for their support, Batista
allowed the communists to organize and control the government sponsored
union, Cuban Confederation of Labor (CTC Confederacion de Trabajadores de
Cuba) The first Secretary General of the CTC was Lazaro Pena--who,
ironically, enough, held the same post in the Castro regime. In exchange for
these favors the communists guaranteed Batista labor peace. In line with the
Communist Party's "Popular Front Against Fascism" policy, the alliance of
the Communist Party with the Batista was officially consumated when the
Party joined the Batista government. The Communist Party leaders Carlos
Rafael Rodriguez and Juan Marinello (who now hold high posts in the Castro
government) became Ministers Without Portfolio in Batista's Cabinet. To
illustrate the intimate connections between the communists and Batista, we
quote from a letter of Batista to Blas Roca, Secretary of the Communist
June 13,1944
Dear Blas,
With respect to your letter which our mutual friend, Dr. Carlos Rafael
Rodriguez, Minister Without Portfolio, passed to me, I am happy to again
express my firm unshakeable confidence in the loyal cooperation the People's
Socialist Party [the then official name of the Communist Party of Cuba] its
leaders and members have given and continue to give myself and my
government. . .
Believe me, as always, Your very affectionate and cordial friend,
Fulgencio Batista
In the electoral campaign the Communist candidates won ten seats in the
Cuban parliament and more than a hundred posts in the Municipal councils.
In line with their pro-Batista policy the communists joined Batista in
condemning Fidel Castro's attack on the Moncada Barracks (July 1953 -- the
anniversary of the attack is a national holiday in Castro Cuba)
. . . the life of the People's Socialist Party (communist). . . has been to
combat . . . and unmask the putschists and adventurous activities of the
bourgeois opposition as being against the interests of the people. . .
(reported in Daily Worker, U.S organ of the Communist Party, August 10,
1953)
overtly they criticized Batista and covertly they cooperated with him.
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html
Cuba had been run by dictator Fulgencio Batista since 1934. His regime was
corrupt and brutal. Although fully supported by the U.S., Batista was hated
by everyone except for his immediate collaborators and hangers-on. In the
late 1950s, this regime had no true left opposition. Gangsters ran the
unions. The Communist Party (CP)-known at the time as the Popular Socialist
Party (PSP)-was, like other Communist Parties of the 1930s, a useful
instrument of Stalin's foreign policy. However, the PSP had decomposed far
more than the average CP. It was linked to the Batista regime to such an
extent that Castro could say,
What right does Señor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party.his portrait
hung next to [Communist leaders] Blas Roca's and Lazaro Peña's; and half a
dozen ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP.(10)
The opposition to Batista that existed in the cities was overwhelmingly
middle class, organized around the Instituciones Cívicas. Another component
of the opposition was the student movement-also middle-class oriented.
Although it would be a mistake to say that workers did not participate in
opposition activity, their participation was not independent. Instead of
putting forward their own class demands, workers were participants in a
movement that was united in its shared hatred of Batista's regime.
Castro's July 26th Movement was made up for the most part of intellectuals,
students, professionals and a limited number of peasants. Not only were its
members mostly middle class, but its politics were decidedly middle class,
too. It emphasized modest land reform and the development of Cuban
capitalism without the obstructions of big business or imperialism. The
guerrilla movement began its life in 1953 with an attack on the Moncada
Barracks. In 1956, it re-launched its guerrilla struggle when it took to the
Sierra Maestra mountains. The guerrilla strategy was one that explicitly
rejected workers as the main revolutionary force. Che Guevara-who later
became the worldwide symbol of guerrilla struggle-considered Cuban workers
to be complacent and bought off by the system. In fact, he considered the
It is more difficult to prepare guerrilla bands in those countries that have
undergone a concentration of population in great centers and have
developed light and medium industry.The ideological influence of the cities
inhibits the guerrilla struggle.11
In the first year of the revolution, Guevara explicitly denied its class
"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation movement
that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12
10 Quoted in H. M. Enzenburguer, Raids and Reconstructions: Essays on
Politics, Crime, and Culture (London: Pluto Press, 1976), p. 200.
Bookmarks,1986), pp. 14-15. Originally in C. Guevara, "Cuba: Exceptional
Case?"Monthly Review (NY), July/August 1961, pp. 65-66.
12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.
See: http://www.isreview.org/issues/11/cuba_crisis.shtml
Inside the Cuban Revolution
Fidel Castro and the Urban Underground.
By : Julia E. Sweig
Julia Sweig shatters the mythology surrounding the Cuban Revolution in a
compelling revisionist history that reconsiders the revolutionary roles of
Fidel Castro and Che Guevara and restores to a central position the
leadership of the Cuban urban underground, the Llano.
Granted unprecedented access to the classified records of Castro's 26th of
July Movement's underground operatives--the only scholar inside or outside
of Cuba allowed access to the complete collection in the Cuban Council of
State's Office of Historic Affairs--she details the ideological, political,
and strategic debates between Castro's mountain-based guerrilla movement and
the urban revolutionaries in Havana, Santiago, and other cities.
In a close study of the fifteen months from November 1956 to July 1958, when
the urban underground leadership was dominant, Sweig examines the debate
between the two groups over whether to wage guerrilla warfare in the
countryside or armed insurrection in the cities, and is the first to
document the extent of Castro's cooperation with the Llano. She unveils the
essential role of the urban underground, led by such figures as Frank País,
Armando Hart, Haydée Santamaria, Enrique Oltuski, and Faustino Pérez, in
controlling critical decisions on tactics, strategy, allocation of
resources, and
relations with opposition forces, political parties, Cuban exiles, even the
United States--contradicting the standard view of Castro as the primary
decision maker during the revolution.
In revealing the true relationship between Castro and the urban underground,
Sweig redefines the history of the Cuban Revolution, offering guideposts for
understanding Cuban politics in the 1960s and raising intriguing questions
for the future transition of power in Cuba.
See: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/SWEINS.html
From: www.cubaverdad.org
PL

l***@aol.com

2005-04-04 11:54:28 UTC

Dear D, no one has forgotten Batista, except people like you who ignore
the fact that Batista was supported by the same communists who are now
behind another ditctator. Not to mention that it was this very same man
who freed from imprisonment the new tyrant.

< krp >

2005-04-04 13:17:09 UTC

Post by l***@aol.com
Dear D, no one has forgotten Batista, except people like you who ignore
the fact that Batista was supported by the same communists who are now
behind another ditctator. Not to mention that it was this very same man
who freed from imprisonment the new tyrant.

That DOES seem to be the irony here, doesn't it?

torresD

2005-04-04 20:06:15 UTC

Batista was backed by the USA, he was their baby boy.
Castro kicked his ass.

2005-04-04 20:22:17 UTC

Batista was backed by the USA,(snip)

and by the Cuban communists, no?

"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation
movement that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12
12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.
Cuba before the revolution:
Were the elements conducive to a communist revolution in place?
Cuba was the third developed nation in the Americas. In certain indicators
of development it beat European nations like Spain, Portugal and even
Belgium in the early 1950's.

see: http://www.state.gov/p/wha/ci/14776.htm

"Armando Hart, a member of Castro's innermost ruling group, made the
extremely significant observation that:
. . . it is certain that capitalism had attained high levels of
organization, efficiency and production that declined after the
Revolution. . . (Juventud Rebelde, November 2, 1969; quoted by Rene Dumont,
Is Cuba Socialist?)

Paul A. Baran, an ardent pro-Castroite in the equally ardent Monthly Review
pamphlet, Reflections on the Cuban Revolution (1961) substantiates what
every economist, as well as amateurs like Castro, has been saying:
...the Cuban Revolution was born with a silver spoon in its mouth. .

.the world renowned French agronomist, Rene Dumont, has estimated that if
properly cultivated as intensively as South China, Cuba could feed fifty
million people. . . the Cuban Revolution is spared the painful, but
ineluctable compulsion that has beset preceding socialist revolutions: the
necessity to force tightening of people's belts in order to lay the
foundations for a better tomorrow. . .(p. 23)

Theodore Draper quotes Anial Escalante, (before he was purged by Castro) one
of the leading communists, who admitted that:
...in reality, Cuba was not one of the countries with the lowest standard of
living of the masses in America, but on the contrary, one of the highest
standards of living, and it was here where the first great . . . democratic
social revolution of the continent burst forth. . . If the historical
development had been dictated by the false axiom [revolutions come first in
poorest countries] the revolution should have been first produced in Haiti,
Colombia or even Chile, countries of greater poverty for the masses than the
Cuba of 1958. . . (quoted in Draper's Castro's Revolution: Myths and
Realities; New York, 1962,
p. 22)

see: Anarchists Archive - Dolgoff

Castro himself admitted that there was no hunger in Cuba:

Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis
and no hunger in Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise
and Fall of Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)

Batista and the Communists.
Where were the communists during the Cuban revolution? If we believe Fidel
Castro not on the side of the revolution:

In the course of the guerrilla struggle in the Sierra Maestra mountains, he
(Castro) delivered another speech which, once again, stresses his distance
from the Communists:

"What right does Senor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party ... his
portrait hung next to Blas Roca's and Lazaro Pena's; and half a dozen
ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP."
H.M. Enzenburger, Raids and Reconstructions, London, 1976, p.200.

See: http://www.marxisme.dk/arkiv/binns/80-cucas.htm

A version of the facts confirmed in this (Marxist) source:

In November 1940, the communists supported Batista's candidates in the
elections to the Constituent Assembly. In return for their support, Batista
allowed the communists to organize and control the government sponsored
union, Cuban Confederation of Labor (CTC Confederacion de Trabajadores de
Cuba) The first Secretary General of the CTC was Lazaro Pena--who,
ironically, enough, held the same post in the Castro regime. In exchange for
these favors the communists guaranteed Batista labor peace. In line with the
Communist Party's "Popular Front Against Fascism" policy, the alliance of
the Communist Party with the Batista was officially consumated when the
Party joined the Batista government. The Communist Party leaders Carlos
Rafael Rodriguez and Juan Marinello (who now hold high posts in the Castro
government) became Ministers Without Portfolio in Batista's Cabinet. To
illustrate the intimate connections between the communists and Batista, we
quote from a letter of Batista to Blas Roca, Secretary of the Communist
Party:

June 13,1944
Dear Blas,
With respect to your letter which our mutual friend, Dr. Carlos Rafael
Rodriguez, Minister Without Portfolio, passed to me, I am happy to again
express my firm unshakeable confidence in the loyal cooperation the People's
Socialist Party [the then official name of the Communist Party of Cuba] its
leaders and members have given and continue to give myself and my
government. . .

Believe me, as always, Your very affectionate and cordial friend,
Fulgencio Batista

In the electoral campaign the Communist candidates won ten seats in the
Cuban parliament and more than a hundred posts in the Municipal councils.

In line with their pro-Batista policy the communists joined Batista in
condemning Fidel Castro's attack on the Moncada Barracks (July 1953 -- the
anniversary of the attack is a national holiday in Castro Cuba)
. . . the life of the People's Socialist Party (communist). . . has been to
combat . . . and unmask the putschists and adventurous activities of the
bourgeois opposition as being against the interests of the people. . .
(reported in Daily Worker, U.S organ of the Communist Party, August 10,
1953)
Throughout the Batista period the communists pursued two parallel policies:
overtly they criticized Batista and covertly they cooperated with him.

See:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html

From the International Socialist Review:

Cuba had been run by dictator Fulgencio Batista since 1934. His regime was
corrupt and brutal. Although fully supported by the U.S., Batista was hated
by everyone except for his immediate collaborators and hangers-on. In the
late 1950s, this regime had no true left opposition. Gangsters ran the
unions. The Communist Party (CP)-known at the time as the Popular Socialist
Party (PSP)-was, like other Communist Parties of the 1930s, a useful
instrument of Stalin's foreign policy. However, the PSP had decomposed far
more than the average CP. It was linked to the Batista regime to such an
extent that Castro could say,

What right does Señor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party.his portrait
hung next to [Communist leaders] Blas Roca's and Lazaro Peña's; and half a
dozen ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP.(10)

The opposition to Batista that existed in the cities was overwhelmingly
middle class, organized around the Instituciones Cívicas. Another component
of the opposition was the student movement-also middle-class oriented.
Although it would be a mistake to say that workers did not participate in
opposition activity, their participation was not independent. Instead of
putting forward their own class demands, workers were participants in a
movement that was united in its shared hatred of Batista's regime.
Castro's July 26th Movement was made up for the most part of intellectuals,
students, professionals and a limited number of peasants. Not only were its
members mostly middle class, but its politics were decidedly middle class,
too. It emphasized modest land reform and the development of Cuban
capitalism without the obstructions of big business or imperialism. The
guerrilla movement began its life in 1953 with an attack on the Moncada
Barracks. In 1956, it re-launched its guerrilla struggle when it took to the
Sierra Maestra mountains. The guerrilla strategy was one that explicitly
rejected workers as the main revolutionary force. Che Guevara-who later
became the worldwide symbol of guerrilla struggle-considered Cuban workers
to be complacent and bought off by the system. In fact, he considered the
cities an obstacle in the struggle:

It is more difficult to prepare guerrilla bands in those countries that have
undergone a concentration of population in great centers and have
developed light and medium industry.The ideological influence of the cities
inhibits the guerrilla struggle.11

In the first year of the revolution, Guevara explicitly denied its class
character:

"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation movement
that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12

10 Quoted in H. M. Enzenburguer, Raids and Reconstructions: Essays on
Politics, Crime, and Culture (London: Pluto Press, 1976), p. 200.

11 Quoted in T. Cliff, Deflected Permanent Revolution (London:
Bookmarks,1986), pp. 14-15. Originally in C. Guevara, "Cuba: Exceptional
Case?"Monthly Review (NY), July/August 1961, pp. 65-66.

12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.

See: http://www.isreview.org/issues/11/cuba_crisis.shtml

Castro kicked his ass.

Nope.
revolutionaries like Frank Pais (who called Castro a caudillo during the
revolution), Hiumberto Matos, Camilo Cienfuegos (disappeared by Fidel and
Raul) did.

See: A view of the dawn in the tropics, G. Cabrera Infante. (though you
wont get
the books as you do not know Cuban history at all. A hint : Commandante
number 2 is Camilo Cienfuegos, the hypocritical bastard in the story in
Fidel).

Inside the Cuban Revolution
Fidel Castro and the Urban Underground.
By : Julia E. Sweig

Julia Sweig shatters the mythology surrounding the Cuban Revolution in a
compelling revisionist history that reconsiders the revolutionary roles of
Fidel Castro and Che Guevara and restores to a central position the
leadership of the Cuban urban underground, the Llano.
Granted unprecedented access to the classified records of Castro's 26th of
July Movement's underground operatives--the only scholar inside or outside
of Cuba allowed access to the complete collection in the Cuban Council of
State's Office of Historic Affairs--she details the ideological, political,
and strategic debates between Castro's mountain-based guerrilla movement and
the urban revolutionaries in Havana, Santiago, and other cities.

In a close study of the fifteen months from November 1956 to July 1958, when
the urban underground leadership was dominant, Sweig examines the debate
between the two groups over whether to wage guerrilla warfare in the
countryside or armed insurrection in the cities, and is the first to
document the extent of Castro's cooperation with the Llano. She unveils the
essential role of the urban underground, led by such figures as Frank País,
Armando Hart, Haydée Santamaria, Enrique Oltuski, and Faustino Pérez, in
controlling critical decisions on tactics, strategy, allocation of
resources, and
relations with opposition forces, political parties, Cuban exiles, even the
United States--contradicting the standard view of Castro as the primary
decision maker during the revolution.

In revealing the true relationship between Castro and the urban underground,
Sweig redefines the history of the Cuban Revolution, offering guideposts for
understanding Cuban politics in the 1960s and raising intriguing questions
for the future transition of power in Cuba.

See: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/SWEINS.html

Castro took over the revolution in a putch in alliance with Batista's old
allies the communists.

In November 1940, the communists supported Batista's candidates in the
elections to the Constituent Assembly. In return for their support, Batista
allowed the communists to organize and control the government sponsored
union, Cuban Confederation of Labor (CTC Confederacion de Trabajadores de
Cuba) The first Secretary General of the CTC was Lazaro Pena--who,
ironically, enough, held the same post in the Castro regime. In exchange for
these favors the communists guaranteed Batista labor peace. In line with the
Communist Party's "Popular Front Against Fascism" policy, the alliance of
the Communist Party with the Batista was officially consumated when the
Party joined the Batista government. The Communist Party leaders Carlos
Rafael Rodriguez and Juan Marinello (who now hold high posts in the Castro
government) became Ministers Without Portfolio in Batista's Cabinet. To
illustrate the intimate connections between the communists and Batista, we
quote from a letter of Batista to Blas Roca, Secretary of the Communist
Party:

June 13,1944
Dear Blas,
With respect to your letter which our mutual friend, Dr. Carlos Rafael
Rodriguez, Minister Without Portfolio, passed to me, I am happy to again
express my firm unshakeable confidence in the loyal cooperation the People's
Socialist Party [the then official name of the Communist Party of Cuba] its
leaders and members have given and continue to give myself and my
government. . .

Believe me, as always, Your very affectionate and cordial friend,
Fulgencio Batista

In the electoral campaign the Communist candidates won ten seats in the
Cuban parliament and more than a hundred posts in the Municipal councils.

In line with their pro-Batista policy the communists joined Batista in
condemning Fidel Castro's attack on the Moncada Barracks (July 1953 -- the
anniversary of the attack is a national holiday in Castro Cuba)
. . . the life of the People's Socialist Party (communist). . . has been to
combat . . . and unmask the putschists and adventurous activities of the
bourgeois opposition as being against the interests of the people. . .
(reported in Daily Worker, U.S organ of the Communist Party, August 10,
1953)
Throughout the Batista period the communists pursued two parallel policies:
overtly they criticized Batista and covertly they cooperated with him.

See:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html

also see. www.cubaverdad.org

PL

2005-04-06 13:11:14 UTC

No reply Doris?

PL

Batista was backed by the USA,(snip)

and by the Cuban communists, no?
"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation
movement that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12
12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.
Were the elements conducive to a communist revolution in place?
Cuba was the third developed nation in the Americas. In certain indicators
of development it beat European nations like Spain, Portugal and even
Belgium in the early 1950's.
see: http://www.state.gov/p/wha/ci/14776.htm
"Armando Hart, a member of Castro's innermost ruling group, made the
. . . it is certain that capitalism had attained high levels of
organization, efficiency and production that declined after the
Revolution. . . (Juventud Rebelde, November 2, 1969; quoted by Rene Dumont,
Is Cuba Socialist?)
Paul A. Baran, an ardent pro-Castroite in the equally ardent Monthly Review
pamphlet, Reflections on the Cuban Revolution (1961) substantiates what
...the Cuban Revolution was born with a silver spoon in its mouth. .
.the world renowned French agronomist, Rene Dumont, has estimated that if
properly cultivated as intensively as South China, Cuba could feed fifty
million people. . . the Cuban Revolution is spared the painful, but
ineluctable compulsion that has beset preceding socialist revolutions: the
necessity to force tightening of people's belts in order to lay the
foundations for a better tomorrow. . .(p. 23)
Theodore Draper quotes Anial Escalante, (before he was purged by Castro) one
...in reality, Cuba was not one of the countries with the lowest standard of
living of the masses in America, but on the contrary, one of the highest
standards of living, and it was here where the first great . . . democratic
social revolution of the continent burst forth. . . If the historical
development had been dictated by the false axiom [revolutions come first in
poorest countries] the revolution should have been first produced in Haiti,
Colombia or even Chile, countries of greater poverty for the masses than the
Cuba of 1958. . . (quoted in Draper's Castro's Revolution: Myths and
Realities; New York, 1962,
p. 22)
see: Anarchists Archive - Dolgoff
Cuba, the "Pearl of the Antilles," though by no means a paradise, was not,
as many believe, an economically backward country. Castro himself admitted
that while there was poverty, there was no economic crisis
and no hunger in Cuba before the Revolution. (See Maurice Halperin: The Rise
and Fall of Fidel Castro, University of California, 1972, pgs. 24, 25, 37)
Batista and the Communists.
Where were the communists during the Cuban revolution? If we believe Fidel
In the course of the guerrilla struggle in the Sierra Maestra mountains, he
(Castro) delivered another speech which, once again, stresses his distance
"What right does Senor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party ... his
portrait hung next to Blas Roca's and Lazaro Pena's; and half a dozen
ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP."
H.M. Enzenburger, Raids and Reconstructions, London, 1976, p.200.
See: http://www.marxisme.dk/arkiv/binns/80-cucas.htm
In November 1940, the communists supported Batista's candidates in the
elections to the Constituent Assembly. In return for their support, Batista
allowed the communists to organize and control the government sponsored
union, Cuban Confederation of Labor (CTC Confederacion de Trabajadores de
Cuba) The first Secretary General of the CTC was Lazaro Pena--who,
ironically, enough, held the same post in the Castro regime. In exchange for
these favors the communists guaranteed Batista labor peace. In line with the
Communist Party's "Popular Front Against Fascism" policy, the alliance of
the Communist Party with the Batista was officially consumated when the
Party joined the Batista government. The Communist Party leaders Carlos
Rafael Rodriguez and Juan Marinello (who now hold high posts in the Castro
government) became Ministers Without Portfolio in Batista's Cabinet. To
illustrate the intimate connections between the communists and Batista, we
quote from a letter of Batista to Blas Roca, Secretary of the Communist
June 13,1944
Dear Blas,
With respect to your letter which our mutual friend, Dr. Carlos Rafael
Rodriguez, Minister Without Portfolio, passed to me, I am happy to again
express my firm unshakeable confidence in the loyal cooperation the People's
Socialist Party [the then official name of the Communist Party of Cuba] its
leaders and members have given and continue to give myself and my
government. . .
Believe me, as always, Your very affectionate and cordial friend,
Fulgencio Batista
In the electoral campaign the Communist candidates won ten seats in the
Cuban parliament and more than a hundred posts in the Municipal councils.
In line with their pro-Batista policy the communists joined Batista in
condemning Fidel Castro's attack on the Moncada Barracks (July 1953 -- the
anniversary of the attack is a national holiday in Castro Cuba)
. . . the life of the People's Socialist Party (communist). . . has been to
combat . . . and unmask the putschists and adventurous activities of the
bourgeois opposition as being against the interests of the people. . .
(reported in Daily Worker, U.S organ of the Communist Party, August 10,
1953)
overtly they criticized Batista and covertly they cooperated with him.
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html
Cuba had been run by dictator Fulgencio Batista since 1934. His regime was
corrupt and brutal. Although fully supported by the U.S., Batista was hated
by everyone except for his immediate collaborators and hangers-on. In the
late 1950s, this regime had no true left opposition. Gangsters ran the
unions. The Communist Party (CP)-known at the time as the Popular Socialist
Party (PSP)-was, like other Communist Parties of the 1930s, a useful
instrument of Stalin's foreign policy. However, the PSP had decomposed far
more than the average CP. It was linked to the Batista regime to such an
extent that Castro could say,
What right does Señor Batista have to speak of Communism? After all, in the
elections of 1940 he was the candidate of the Communist Party.his portrait
hung next to [Communist leaders] Blas Roca's and Lazaro Peña's; and half a
dozen ministers and confidants of his are leading members of the CP.(10)
The opposition to Batista that existed in the cities was overwhelmingly
middle class, organized around the Instituciones Cívicas. Another component
of the opposition was the student movement-also middle-class oriented.
Although it would be a mistake to say that workers did not participate in
opposition activity, their participation was not independent. Instead of
putting forward their own class demands, workers were participants in a
movement that was united in its shared hatred of Batista's regime.
Castro's July 26th Movement was made up for the most part of
intellectuals,
students, professionals and a limited number of peasants. Not only were its
members mostly middle class, but its politics were decidedly middle class,
too. It emphasized modest land reform and the development of Cuban
capitalism without the obstructions of big business or imperialism. The
guerrilla movement began its life in 1953 with an attack on the Moncada
Barracks. In 1956, it re-launched its guerrilla struggle when it took to the
Sierra Maestra mountains. The guerrilla strategy was one that explicitly
rejected workers as the main revolutionary force. Che Guevara-who later
became the worldwide symbol of guerrilla struggle-considered Cuban workers
to be complacent and bought off by the system. In fact, he considered the
It is more difficult to prepare guerrilla bands in those countries that have
undergone a concentration of population in great centers and have
developed light and medium industry.The ideological influence of the cities
inhibits the guerrilla struggle.11
In the first year of the revolution, Guevara explicitly denied its class
"The Cuban revolution is not a class revolution, but a liberation movement
that has overthrown a dictatorial, tyrannical government."12
10 Quoted in H. M. Enzenburguer, Raids and Reconstructions: Essays on
Politics, Crime, and Culture (London: Pluto Press, 1976), p. 200.
Bookmarks,1986), pp. 14-15. Originally in C. Guevara, "Cuba: Exceptional
Case?"Monthly Review (NY), July/August 1961, pp. 65-66.
12 Che Guevara Speaks: Selected Speeches and Writings, G. Lavan ed. (New
York: Pathfinder, 1967), p. 13.
See: http://www.isreview.org/issues/11/cuba_crisis.shtml

Castro kicked his ass.

Nope.
revolutionaries like Frank Pais (who called Castro a caudillo during the
revolution), Hiumberto Matos, Camilo Cienfuegos (disappeared by Fidel and
Raul) did.
See: A view of the dawn in the tropics, G. Cabrera Infante. (though you
wont get
the books as you do not know Cuban history at all. A hint : Commandante
number 2 is Camilo Cienfuegos, the hypocritical bastard in the story in
Fidel).
Inside the Cuban Revolution
Fidel Castro and the Urban Underground.
By : Julia E. Sweig
Julia Sweig shatters the mythology surrounding the Cuban Revolution in a
compelling revisionist history that reconsiders the revolutionary roles of
Fidel Castro and Che Guevara and restores to a central position the
leadership of the Cuban urban underground, the Llano.
Granted unprecedented access to the classified records of Castro's 26th of
July Movement's underground operatives--the only scholar inside or outside
of Cuba allowed access to the complete collection in the Cuban Council of
State's Office of Historic Affairs--she details the ideological, political,
and strategic debates between Castro's mountain-based guerrilla movement and
the urban revolutionaries in Havana, Santiago, and other cities.
In a close study of the fifteen months from November 1956 to July 1958, when
the urban underground leadership was dominant, Sweig examines the debate
between the two groups over whether to wage guerrilla warfare in the
countryside or armed insurrection in the cities, and is the first to
document the extent of Castro's cooperation with the Llano. She unveils the
essential role of the urban underground, led by such figures as Frank País,
Armando Hart, Haydée Santamaria, Enrique Oltuski, and Faustino Pérez, in
controlling critical decisions on tactics, strategy, allocation of
resources, and
relations with opposition forces, political parties, Cuban exiles, even the
United States--contradicting the standard view of Castro as the primary
decision maker during the revolution.
In revealing the true relationship between Castro and the urban underground,
Sweig redefines the history of the Cuban Revolution, offering guideposts for
understanding Cuban politics in the 1960s and raising intriguing questions
for the future transition of power in Cuba.
See: http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/SWEINS.html
Castro took over the revolution in a putch in alliance with Batista's old
allies the communists.
In November 1940, the communists supported Batista's candidates in the
elections to the Constituent Assembly. In return for their support, Batista
allowed the communists to organize and control the government sponsored
union, Cuban Confederation of Labor (CTC Confederacion de Trabajadores de
Cuba) The first Secretary General of the CTC was Lazaro Pena--who,
ironically, enough, held the same post in the Castro regime. In exchange for
these favors the communists guaranteed Batista labor peace. In line with the
Communist Party's "Popular Front Against Fascism" policy, the alliance of
the Communist Party with the Batista was officially consumated when the
Party joined the Batista government. The Communist Party leaders Carlos
Rafael Rodriguez and Juan Marinello (who now hold high posts in the Castro
government) became Ministers Without Portfolio in Batista's Cabinet. To
illustrate the intimate connections between the communists and Batista, we
quote from a letter of Batista to Blas Roca, Secretary of the Communist
June 13,1944
Dear Blas,
With respect to your letter which our mutual friend, Dr. Carlos Rafael
Rodriguez, Minister Without Portfolio, passed to me, I am happy to again
express my firm unshakeable confidence in the loyal cooperation the People's
Socialist Party [the then official name of the Communist Party of Cuba] its
leaders and members have given and continue to give myself and my
government. . .
Believe me, as always, Your very affectionate and cordial friend,
Fulgencio Batista
In the electoral campaign the Communist candidates won ten seats in the
Cuban parliament and more than a hundred posts in the Municipal councils.
In line with their pro-Batista policy the communists joined Batista in
condemning Fidel Castro's attack on the Moncada Barracks (July 1953 -- the
anniversary of the attack is a national holiday in Castro Cuba)
. . . the life of the People's Socialist Party (communist). . . has been to
combat . . . and unmask the putschists and adventurous activities of the
bourgeois opposition as being against the interests of the people. . .
(reported in Daily Worker, U.S organ of the Communist Party, August 10,
1953)
overtly they criticized Batista and covertly they cooperated with him.
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/dolgoff/cubanrevolution/chapter6.html
also see. www.cubaverdad.org
PL

Miguel

2005-04-05 06:40:38 UTC

Batista was backed by the USA, he was their baby boy.
Castro kicked his ass.

The truth is that there was wide disagreement at the American Embassy
in Cuba. Some supported Batista. The majority did not, especially the
CIA. They were mostly Castro supporters! The arms embargo against
Batista by the US, while providing Castro with the best armaments,
assured victory for the rebels. Batista's army stopped fighting once
the arms embargo became common knowledge. It was a matter of time.
Then, in December 1958, the US Ambassador spoke to Batista and
suggested he should leave Cuba.

The Fourth Floor of the State Department had decided to support Castro
and they were very pleased with the results. I recommend the book
called "The Fourth Floor" by Earl T Smith, the US Ambassador to
Cuba. The mistakes made were unbelievable. While, we as Cubans, bear
the responsibility for what happened to us, we were not the only ones
fooled by Castro.

\\ krp *

2005-04-05 09:42:47 UTC

Post by l***@aol.com

Post by l***@aol.com
Dear D, no one has forgotten Batista, except people like you who

ignore

Post by l***@aol.com
the fact that Batista was supported by the same communists who are

now

Post by l***@aol.com
behind another ditctator. Not to mention that it was this very same

man

Post by l***@aol.com
who freed from imprisonment the new tyrant.

Batista was backed by the USA, he was their baby boy.
Castro kicked his ass.

Here is the TRUTH.......... SERGEANT BATISTA sealed the fate of his Army
when he PERSONALLY micromanaged battle strategy. Let's just say that the
SERGEANT was not the best battle tactician and almost everyone in the Army
knew it. His STUPID plans of battle had a nasty habit of killing off his
army. There was no force nearly as responsible for GENERAL CASTRO'S
victories and SERGEANT BATISTA!

Miguel

2005-04-06 06:42:40 UTC

Post by \\ krp *

Post by l***@aol.com

Post by l***@aol.com
Dear D, no one has forgotten Batista, except people like you who

ignore

Post by l***@aol.com
the fact that Batista was supported by the same communists who are

now

Post by l***@aol.com
behind another dictator. Not to mention that it was this very

same

Post by \\ krp *

Post by l***@aol.com
man