Discussion:
spoiler 20th Dec
(too old to reply)
Chris McMillan
2018-12-20 19:16:27 UTC
Permalink
On the other hand .......

Sincerely Chris
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-12-21 02:25:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
On the other hand .......
Sincerely Chris
Yes, the "rude mechanicals" fulfilling their function. Lazy SWing ...

You just _knew_ it was going to happen. I know it's pantomime season,
but ...

[I never saw the attraction of the traditional pantomime anyway, even
when I was the target age (about 4?). Not that I want to Scrooge
anyone's genuine enjoyment that is ...]
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

History is not the past. It is the method we have evolved of organising our
ignorance of the past. - Hilary Mantel, first Reith Lecture 2017
Vicky Ayech
2018-12-21 08:10:05 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 02:25:33 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
On the other hand .......
Sincerely Chris
Yes, the "rude mechanicals" fulfilling their function. Lazy SWing ...
You just _knew_ it was going to happen. I know it's pantomime season,
but ...
[I never saw the attraction of the traditional pantomime anyway, even
when I was the target age (about 4?). Not that I want to Scrooge
anyone's genuine enjoyment that is ...]
It wasn't funny or clever. It really annoyed me. And it happened top
someone not involved in the whole thing, at the one moment she went
by? BAD SWs. I am nuggering well reporting them to Santa, and don't
think I can't. I saw him outside Asda yesterday. He was on an invalid
scooter, collecing money for some charity. I shall tell him if he's
there today. Just lumps of coal and being chased round by the elf
with a stick for bad SWs.
Mike
2018-12-21 08:42:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 02:25:33 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
On the other hand .......
Sincerely Chris
Yes, the "rude mechanicals" fulfilling their function. Lazy SWing ...
You just _knew_ it was going to happen. I know it's pantomime season,
but ...
[I never saw the attraction of the traditional pantomime anyway, even
when I was the target age (about 4?). Not that I want to Scrooge
anyone's genuine enjoyment that is ...]
It wasn't funny or clever. It really annoyed me. And it happened top
someone not involved in the whole thing, at the one moment she went
by? BAD SWs. I am nuggering well reporting them to Santa, and don't
think I can't. I saw him outside Asda yesterday. He was on an invalid
scooter, collecing money for some charity. I shall tell him if he's
there today. Just lumps of coal and being chased round by the elf
with a stick for bad SWs.
Not the ‘clean’ end of the stick noiver!
--
Toodle Pip
Chris McMillan
2018-12-21 08:50:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
On the other hand .......
Sincerely Chris
Yes, the "rude mechanicals" fulfilling their function. Lazy SWing ...
You just _knew_ it was going to happen. I know it's pantomime season,
but ...
[I never saw the attraction of the traditional pantomime anyway, even
when I was the target age (about 4?). Not that I want to Scrooge
anyone's genuine enjoyment that is ...]
You and me too, Jpeg.

Sincerely Chris
Mike
2018-12-21 09:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
On the other hand .......
Sincerely Chris
Yes, the "rude mechanicals" fulfilling their function. Lazy SWing ...
You just _knew_ it was going to happen. I know it's pantomime season,
but ...
[I never saw the attraction of the traditional pantomime anyway, even
when I was the target age (about 4?). Not that I want to Scrooge
anyone's genuine enjoyment that is ...]
You and me too, Jpeg.
Sincerely Chris
Nor I! (Try explaining the concept to a foreigner - about as
straight-forward as explaining the concept of cricket) [Runs away and
ducks rapidly]
--
Toodle Pip
Sid Nuncius
2018-12-21 09:17:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Nor I! (Try explaining the concept to a foreigner - about as
straight-forward as explaining the concept of cricket) [Runs away and
ducks rapidly]
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...

Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
'Tis the yeares midnight
Mike
2018-12-21 09:37:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Nor I! (Try explaining the concept to a foreigner - about as
straight-forward as explaining the concept of cricket) [Runs away and
ducks rapidly]
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
I’m all-in, so I am going out!
--
Toodle Pip
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2018-12-21 11:04:04 UTC
Permalink
[Pantomime, and their dubious attractiveness]
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Nor I! (Try explaining the concept to a foreigner - about as
straight-forward as explaining the concept of cricket) [Runs away and
ducks rapidly]
Actually, see
https://rootsonwheels.com/2018/03/21/january-in-northumberland/
- describes my American cousin's reaction to one. OK, she was biased by
her host's granddaughters being involved. (_I_ still don't see the
attraction though!) [It's at the end of the page. Skip the
churches/genealogy bits (though they're interesting).]
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
I’m all-in, so I am going out!
My dad used to, at the "Bill and Jock show" (a sort of end-of-term
concert; he taught among other things German to classes of British
soldiers, and Bill and Jock were the characters in the text book they
used), do a talk on "The English Game of Cricket", which he did as a
comedy German professor. Much elaboration of the nature that the batsman
who is out then comes in, while the next one goes out to be in, onto the
vicket - not to mention the Shtumpelsticks ... I _wish_ I had a
recording of one of them. (He also did one on The Scottish Game of
Golf.)


255soft.uk
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Fortunately radio is a forgiving medium. It hides a multitude of chins ...
Vanessa feltz, RT 2014-3/28-4/4
Sam Plusnet
2018-12-21 22:58:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Nor I! (Try explaining the concept to a foreigner - about as
straight-forward as explaining the concept of cricket) [Runs away and
ducks rapidly]
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
I’m all-in, so I am going out!
You'd better get out there because you're in.
--
Sam Plusnet
steveski
2018-12-22 01:00:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Nor I! (Try explaining the concept to a foreigner - about as
straight-forward as explaining the concept of cricket) [Runs away
and ducks rapidly]
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
I’m all-in, so I am going out!
You'd better get out there because you're in.
And if you're not in by a certain time, you'll be out.
--
Steveski
Rosemary Miskin
2018-12-21 11:07:29 UTC
Permalink
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck... 
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket? 
That brings back memories of my big brother, when I was about 4, trying to
explain the concept of a golden duck. Apparently I was upset when no duck
was produced for the batsman!

Rosemary
SODAM
2018-12-21 13:15:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rosemary Miskin
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck... 
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket? 
That brings back memories of my big brother, when I was about 4, trying to
explain the concept of a golden duck. Apparently I was upset when no duck
was produced for the batsman!
Rosemary
My father (peace be upon him) told me that he gave some pennies to the
Lenten Alms for “the black babies” when he was small. He was distressed
when Easter came and he wasn’t given a black baby of his own.

That would have been about a hundred years ago, I realise with
astonishment.
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
Kate B
2018-12-21 18:02:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by SODAM
Post by Rosemary Miskin
Post by Sid Nuncius
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
That brings back memories of my big brother, when I was about 4, trying to
explain the concept of a golden duck. Apparently I was upset when no duck
was produced for the batsman!
Rosemary
My father (peace be upon him) told me that he gave some pennies to the
Lenten Alms for “the black babies” when he was small. He was distressed
when Easter came and he wasn’t given a black baby of his own.
That would have been about a hundred years ago, I realise with
astonishment.
We did this in my Catholic primary school, rather less than a hundred
years ago. There was a very large picture of Our Lady at the top of some
steps, and each of us had a little black paper baby. Every threepence we
gave entitled us to pin our baby to the next step up. If every baby
wasn't on the top step by the end of the Lent term the atmosphere became
very un-holiday-like and words were had with the collecting parents.

I'm not sure whether any of us actually expected to get a baby at the
end of this exercise, though. The nuns were quite strict and there were
very few rewards for anything much.
--
Kate B
London
Mike
2018-12-21 18:34:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by SODAM
Post by Rosemary Miskin
Post by Sid Nuncius
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
That brings back memories of my big brother, when I was about 4, trying to
explain the concept of a golden duck. Apparently I was upset when no duck
was produced for the batsman!
Rosemary
My father (peace be upon him) told me that he gave some pennies to the
Lenten Alms for “the black babies” when he was small. He was distressed
when Easter came and he wasn’t given a black baby of his own.
That would have been about a hundred years ago, I realise with
astonishment.
We did this in my Catholic primary school, rather less than a hundred
years ago. There was a very large picture of Our Lady at the top of some
steps, and each of us had a little black paper baby. Every threepence we
gave entitled us to pin our baby to the next step up. If every baby
wasn't on the top step by the end of the Lent term the atmosphere became
very un-holiday-like and words were had with the collecting parents.
I'm not sure whether any of us actually expected to get a baby at the
end of this exercise, though. The nuns were quite strict and there were
very few rewards for anything much.
I have always felt this form of moral blackmail is particularly nasty - and
certainly well below any organisation working in the name of a religion or
charity.
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Odell
2018-12-22 01:28:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by SODAM
Post by Rosemary Miskin
Post by Sid Nuncius
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
That brings back memories of my big brother, when I was about 4, trying to
explain the concept of a golden duck. Apparently I was upset when no duck
was produced for the batsman!
Rosemary
My father (peace be upon him) told me that he gave some pennies to the
Lenten Alms for “the black babies” when he was small. He was distressed
when Easter came and he wasn’t given a black baby of his own.
That would have been about a hundred years ago, I realise with
astonishment.
We did this in my Catholic primary school, rather less than a hundred
years ago. There was a very large picture of Our Lady at the top of some
steps, and each of us had a little black paper baby. Every threepence we
gave entitled us to pin our baby to the next step up. If every baby
wasn't on the top step by the end of the Lent term the atmosphere became
very un-holiday-like and words were had with the collecting parents.
I'm not sure whether any of us actually expected to get a baby at the
end of this exercise, though. The nuns were quite strict and there were
very few rewards for anything much.
I have always felt this form of moral blackmail is particularly nasty - and
certainly well below any organisation working in the name of a religion or
charity.
I don't wish to be ungallant towards Kate but I believe we are talking
about a time fifty or more years ago and people's ideas then about what
was good and what was right were very different. This was only a little
after the time that the British government thought it was a good idea to
bundle up children who had lost their parents - and some children who
had not - ship them out to Australia and give them away to anybody who
would take them. I'm not aware that the general public thought that a
bad idea at the time.

We've had to come this far forward to see now that these and so many
other practices and attitudes were wrong and I dare say that fifty years
into the future people will look back at things we now consider normal
and say how barbaric we all were back then.

Nick
LFS
2018-12-22 04:58:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by SODAM
Post by Rosemary Miskin
Post by Sid Nuncius
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
That brings back memories of my big brother, when I was about 4, trying to
explain the concept of a golden duck. Apparently I was upset when no duck
was produced for the batsman!
Rosemary
My father (peace be upon him) told me that he gave some pennies to the
Lenten Alms for “the black babies” when he was small. He was distressed
when Easter came and he wasn’t  given a black baby of his own.
That would have been about a hundred years ago, I realise with
astonishment.
We did this in my Catholic primary school, rather less than a hundred
years ago. There was a very large picture of Our Lady at the top of some
steps, and each of us had a little black paper baby. Every threepence we
gave entitled us to pin our baby to the next step up.  If every baby
wasn't on the top step by the end of the Lent term the atmosphere became
very un-holiday-like and words were had with the collecting parents.
I'm not sure whether any of us actually expected to get a baby at the
end of this exercise, though. The nuns were quite strict and there were
very few rewards for anything much.
I have always felt this form of moral blackmail is particularly nasty - and
certainly well below any organisation working in the name of a religion or
charity.
I don't wish to be ungallant towards Kate but I believe we are talking
about a time fifty or more years ago and people's ideas then about what
was good and what was right were very different. This was only a little
after the time that the British government thought it was a good idea to
bundle up children who had lost their parents - and some children who
had not - ship them out to Australia and give them away to anybody who
would take them. I'm not aware that the general public thought that a
bad idea at the time.
I'm not sure that the general public actually knew much about it at the
time.
Post by Nick Odell
We've had to come this far forward to see now that these and so many
other practices and attitudes were wrong and I dare say that fifty years
into the future people will look back at things we now consider normal
and say how barbaric we all were back then.
I take your point but this implies a trajectory of improvement which I'm
not seeing. This country was a place of refuge for my grandparents and
my husband's parents. They were not educated and had no particular
skills to offer. Those in similar situations to theirs are not welcomed
here now. In the odd moments when I find myself marvelling at May's
apparent resilience, I remind myself of this little exercise of hers:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/26/theresa-may-go-home-vans-operation-vaken-ukip
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Kate B
2018-12-22 10:13:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by SODAM
Post by Rosemary Miskin
Post by Sid Nuncius
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
That brings back memories of my big brother, when I was about 4, trying to
explain the concept of a golden duck. Apparently I was upset when no duck
was produced for the batsman!
Rosemary
My father (peace be upon him) told me that he gave some pennies to the
Lenten Alms for “the black babies” when he was small. He was distressed
when Easter came and he wasn’t  given a black baby of his own.
That would have been about a hundred years ago, I realise with
astonishment.
We did this in my Catholic primary school, rather less than a hundred
years ago. There was a very large picture of Our Lady at the top of some
steps, and each of us had a little black paper baby. Every threepence we
gave entitled us to pin our baby to the next step up.  If every baby
wasn't on the top step by the end of the Lent term the atmosphere became
very un-holiday-like and words were had with the collecting parents.
I'm not sure whether any of us actually expected to get a baby at the
end of this exercise, though. The nuns were quite strict and there were
very few rewards for anything much.
I have always felt this form of moral blackmail is particularly nasty - and
certainly well below any organisation working in the name of a religion or
charity.
I don't wish to be ungallant towards Kate but I believe we are talking
about a time fifty or more years ago and people's ideas then about what
was good and what was right were very different. This was only a little
after the time that the British government thought it was a good idea to
bundle up children who had lost their parents - and some children who
had not - ship them out to Australia and give them away to anybody who
would take them. I'm not aware that the general public thought that a
bad idea at the time.
We've had to come this far forward to see now that these and so many
other practices and attitudes were wrong and I dare say that fifty years
into the future people will look back at things we now consider normal
and say how barbaric we all were back then.
Nick
Thank you, Nick. It was indeed umpty-cough years ago, perhaps only a
decade or so after Windrush. Even in Brixton there were still very few
black people from anywhere.

I might add that being made to think of the poor starving black babies
in Africa is not a bad thing in itself. And as for the competition
involved in getting to the top of the steps, this is still rife - a
school is raising money for a charity I work with, donating via
individual fundraising pages on a website (BT MyDonate, much better than
Justgiving, doesn't take any cut). We had a panicked call from one
beleaguered mother who had given money direct to us rather than via the
page, so her daughter was well below her peers. In the end we gave her
her money back so she could restore parity via the fundraising page.

So the moral blackmail is all still flourishing, only the nuns have
disappeared.
--
Kate B
London
Vicky Ayech
2018-12-22 11:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by SODAM
Post by Rosemary Miskin
Post by Sid Nuncius
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
That brings back memories of my big brother, when I was about 4, trying to
explain the concept of a golden duck. Apparently I was upset when no duck
was produced for the batsman!
Rosemary
My father (peace be upon him) told me that he gave some pennies to the
Lenten Alms for “the black babies” when he was small. He was distressed
when Easter came and he wasn’t  given a black baby of his own.
That would have been about a hundred years ago, I realise with
astonishment.
We did this in my Catholic primary school, rather less than a hundred
years ago. There was a very large picture of Our Lady at the top of some
steps, and each of us had a little black paper baby. Every threepence we
gave entitled us to pin our baby to the next step up.  If every baby
wasn't on the top step by the end of the Lent term the atmosphere became
very un-holiday-like and words were had with the collecting parents.
I'm not sure whether any of us actually expected to get a baby at the
end of this exercise, though. The nuns were quite strict and there were
very few rewards for anything much.
I have always felt this form of moral blackmail is particularly nasty - and
certainly well below any organisation working in the name of a religion or
charity.
I don't wish to be ungallant towards Kate but I believe we are talking
about a time fifty or more years ago and people's ideas then about what
was good and what was right were very different. This was only a little
after the time that the British government thought it was a good idea to
bundle up children who had lost their parents - and some children who
had not - ship them out to Australia and give them away to anybody who
would take them. I'm not aware that the general public thought that a
bad idea at the time.
We've had to come this far forward to see now that these and so many
other practices and attitudes were wrong and I dare say that fifty years
into the future people will look back at things we now consider normal
and say how barbaric we all were back then.
Nick
Thank you, Nick. It was indeed umpty-cough years ago, perhaps only a
decade or so after Windrush. Even in Brixton there were still very few
black people from anywhere.
I might add that being made to think of the poor starving black babies
in Africa is not a bad thing in itself. And as for the competition
involved in getting to the top of the steps, this is still rife - a
school is raising money for a charity I work with, donating via
individual fundraising pages on a website (BT MyDonate, much better than
Justgiving, doesn't take any cut). We had a panicked call from one
beleaguered mother who had given money direct to us rather than via the
page, so her daughter was well below her peers. In the end we gave her
her money back so she could restore parity via the fundraising page.
So the moral blackmail is all still flourishing, only the nuns have
disappeared.
A ladder of gifts given by kids is very bad. So what do the poor
parents who need help from food banks do?
Kate B
2018-12-22 11:29:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Kate B
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by SODAM
Post by Rosemary Miskin
Post by Sid Nuncius
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
That brings back memories of my big brother, when I was about 4, trying to
explain the concept of a golden duck. Apparently I was upset when no duck
was produced for the batsman!
Rosemary
My father (peace be upon him) told me that he gave some pennies to the
Lenten Alms for “the black babies” when he was small. He was distressed
when Easter came and he wasn’t  given a black baby of his own.
That would have been about a hundred years ago, I realise with
astonishment.
We did this in my Catholic primary school, rather less than a hundred
years ago. There was a very large picture of Our Lady at the top of some
steps, and each of us had a little black paper baby. Every threepence we
gave entitled us to pin our baby to the next step up.  If every baby
wasn't on the top step by the end of the Lent term the atmosphere became
very un-holiday-like and words were had with the collecting parents.
I'm not sure whether any of us actually expected to get a baby at the
end of this exercise, though. The nuns were quite strict and there were
very few rewards for anything much.
I have always felt this form of moral blackmail is particularly nasty - and
certainly well below any organisation working in the name of a religion or
charity.
I don't wish to be ungallant towards Kate but I believe we are talking
about a time fifty or more years ago and people's ideas then about what
was good and what was right were very different. This was only a little
after the time that the British government thought it was a good idea to
bundle up children who had lost their parents - and some children who
had not - ship them out to Australia and give them away to anybody who
would take them. I'm not aware that the general public thought that a
bad idea at the time.
We've had to come this far forward to see now that these and so many
other practices and attitudes were wrong and I dare say that fifty years
into the future people will look back at things we now consider normal
and say how barbaric we all were back then.
Nick
Thank you, Nick. It was indeed umpty-cough years ago, perhaps only a
decade or so after Windrush. Even in Brixton there were still very few
black people from anywhere.
I might add that being made to think of the poor starving black babies
in Africa is not a bad thing in itself. And as for the competition
involved in getting to the top of the steps, this is still rife - a
school is raising money for a charity I work with, donating via
individual fundraising pages on a website (BT MyDonate, much better than
Justgiving, doesn't take any cut). We had a panicked call from one
beleaguered mother who had given money direct to us rather than via the
page, so her daughter was well below her peers. In the end we gave her
her money back so she could restore parity via the fundraising page.
So the moral blackmail is all still flourishing, only the nuns have
disappeared.
A ladder of gifts given by kids is very bad. So what do the poor
parents who need help from food banks do?
I doubt very much if the primary school I went to in the fifties had
children whose parents would been at that level of poverty (and if they
had, the nuns would have helped). As for the fundraising school today, I
don't know what background issues there may be, but the kids (all at
least 16) are raising money through sponsored walks and the like. The
pressure is going to be there whatever the circumstances.

Do you object in principle to anyone trying to raise money for charity?
--
Kate B
London
Mike
2018-12-22 11:44:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Kate B
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by SODAM
Post by Rosemary Miskin
Post by Sid Nuncius
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
That brings back memories of my big brother, when I was about 4, trying to
explain the concept of a golden duck. Apparently I was upset when no duck
was produced for the batsman!
Rosemary
My father (peace be upon him) told me that he gave some pennies to the
Lenten Alms for “the black babies” when he was small. He was distressed
when Easter came and he wasn’t  given a black baby of his own.
That would have been about a hundred years ago, I realise with
astonishment.
We did this in my Catholic primary school, rather less than a hundred
years ago. There was a very large picture of Our Lady at the top of some
steps, and each of us had a little black paper baby. Every threepence we
gave entitled us to pin our baby to the next step up.  If every baby
wasn't on the top step by the end of the Lent term the atmosphere became
very un-holiday-like and words were had with the collecting parents.
I'm not sure whether any of us actually expected to get a baby at the
end of this exercise, though. The nuns were quite strict and there were
very few rewards for anything much.
I have always felt this form of moral blackmail is particularly nasty - and
certainly well below any organisation working in the name of a religion or
charity.
I don't wish to be ungallant towards Kate but I believe we are talking
about a time fifty or more years ago and people's ideas then about what
was good and what was right were very different. This was only a little
after the time that the British government thought it was a good idea to
bundle up children who had lost their parents - and some children who
had not - ship them out to Australia and give them away to anybody who
would take them. I'm not aware that the general public thought that a
bad idea at the time.
We've had to come this far forward to see now that these and so many
other practices and attitudes were wrong and I dare say that fifty years
into the future people will look back at things we now consider normal
and say how barbaric we all were back then.
Nick
Thank you, Nick. It was indeed umpty-cough years ago, perhaps only a
decade or so after Windrush. Even in Brixton there were still very few
black people from anywhere.
I might add that being made to think of the poor starving black babies
in Africa is not a bad thing in itself. And as for the competition
involved in getting to the top of the steps, this is still rife - a
school is raising money for a charity I work with, donating via
individual fundraising pages on a website (BT MyDonate, much better than
Justgiving, doesn't take any cut). We had a panicked call from one
beleaguered mother who had given money direct to us rather than via the
page, so her daughter was well below her peers. In the end we gave her
her money back so she could restore parity via the fundraising page.
So the moral blackmail is all still flourishing, only the nuns have
disappeared.
A ladder of gifts given by kids is very bad. So what do the poor
parents who need help from food banks do?
I doubt very much if the primary school I went to in the fifties had
children whose parents would been at that level of poverty (and if they
had, the nuns would have helped). As for the fundraising school today, I
don't know what background issues there may be, but the kids (all at
least 16) are raising money through sponsored walks and the like. The
pressure is going to be there whatever the circumstances.
Do you object in principle to anyone trying to raise money for charity?
Who, me? Or.... anotherRat? For me, the moral blackmail is my objection but
also when individuals request others to ‘sponsor them’ to do something for
‘charity’ that In itself, benefits no-one in any way except producers of
bath loads of baked beans or whatever.
--
Toodle Pip
Kate B
2018-12-22 11:57:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Kate B
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by SODAM
My father (peace be upon him) told me that he gave some pennies to the
Lenten Alms for “the black babies” when he was small. He was distressed
when Easter came and he wasn’t  given a black baby of his own.
That would have been about a hundred years ago, I realise with
astonishment.
We did this in my Catholic primary school, rather less than a hundred
years ago. There was a very large picture of Our Lady at the top of some
steps, and each of us had a little black paper baby. Every threepence we
gave entitled us to pin our baby to the next step up.  If every baby
wasn't on the top step by the end of the Lent term the atmosphere became
very un-holiday-like and words were had with the collecting parents.
I'm not sure whether any of us actually expected to get a baby at the
end of this exercise, though. The nuns were quite strict and there were
very few rewards for anything much.
I have always felt this form of moral blackmail is particularly nasty - and
certainly well below any organisation working in the name of a religion or
charity.
I don't wish to be ungallant towards Kate but I believe we are talking
about a time fifty or more years ago and people's ideas then about what
was good and what was right were very different. This was only a little
after the time that the British government thought it was a good idea to
bundle up children who had lost their parents - and some children who
had not - ship them out to Australia and give them away to anybody who
would take them. I'm not aware that the general public thought that a
bad idea at the time.
We've had to come this far forward to see now that these and so many
other practices and attitudes were wrong and I dare say that fifty years
into the future people will look back at things we now consider normal
and say how barbaric we all were back then.
Nick
Thank you, Nick. It was indeed umpty-cough years ago, perhaps only a
decade or so after Windrush. Even in Brixton there were still very few
black people from anywhere.
I might add that being made to think of the poor starving black babies
in Africa is not a bad thing in itself. And as for the competition
involved in getting to the top of the steps, this is still rife - a
school is raising money for a charity I work with, donating via
individual fundraising pages on a website (BT MyDonate, much better than
Justgiving, doesn't take any cut). We had a panicked call from one
beleaguered mother who had given money direct to us rather than via the
page, so her daughter was well below her peers. In the end we gave her
her money back so she could restore parity via the fundraising page.
So the moral blackmail is all still flourishing, only the nuns have
disappeared.
A ladder of gifts given by kids is very bad. So what do the poor
parents who need help from food banks do?
I doubt very much if the primary school I went to in the fifties had
children whose parents would been at that level of poverty (and if they
had, the nuns would have helped). As for the fundraising school today, I
don't know what background issues there may be, but the kids (all at
least 16) are raising money through sponsored walks and the like. The
pressure is going to be there whatever the circumstances.
Do you object in principle to anyone trying to raise money for charity?
Who, me? Or.... anotherRat? For me, the moral blackmail is my objection but
also when individuals request others to ‘sponsor them’ to do something for
‘charity’ that In itself, benefits no-one in any way except producers of
bath loads of baked beans or whatever.
snipped a bit. Apologies if too many attributions have gone...


I think it was Vicky who said that the ladder of gifts was very bad, and
what about food banks.

But you seem to be ruling out fundraising altogether? I agree that there
is much that is ridiculous in these telethon extravaganzas, and much
that is wrong in the governance of some of the big charities, but is
that a reason to rule it all out just like that?

Moral blackmail is always going to be a factor. But should that mean we
stop fundraising for deserving causes?
--
Kate B
London
Chris McMillan
2018-12-22 13:51:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Kate B
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by SODAM
My father (peace be upon him) told me that he gave some pennies to the
Lenten Alms for “the black babies” when he was small. He was distressed
when Easter came and he wasn’t  given a black baby of his own.
That would have been about a hundred years ago, I realise with
astonishment.
We did this in my Catholic primary school, rather less than a hundred
years ago. There was a very large picture of Our Lady at the top of some
steps, and each of us had a little black paper baby. Every threepence we
gave entitled us to pin our baby to the next step up.  If every baby
wasn't on the top step by the end of the Lent term the atmosphere became
very un-holiday-like and words were had with the collecting parents.
I'm not sure whether any of us actually expected to get a baby at the
end of this exercise, though. The nuns were quite strict and there were
very few rewards for anything much.
I have always felt this form of moral blackmail is particularly nasty - and
certainly well below any organisation working in the name of a religion or
charity.
I don't wish to be ungallant towards Kate but I believe we are talking
about a time fifty or more years ago and people's ideas then about what
was good and what was right were very different. This was only a little
after the time that the British government thought it was a good idea to
bundle up children who had lost their parents - and some children who
had not - ship them out to Australia and give them away to anybody who
would take them. I'm not aware that the general public thought that a
bad idea at the time.
We've had to come this far forward to see now that these and so many
other practices and attitudes were wrong and I dare say that fifty years
into the future people will look back at things we now consider normal
and say how barbaric we all were back then.
Nick
Thank you, Nick. It was indeed umpty-cough years ago, perhaps only a
decade or so after Windrush. Even in Brixton there were still very few
black people from anywhere.
I might add that being made to think of the poor starving black babies
in Africa is not a bad thing in itself. And as for the competition
involved in getting to the top of the steps, this is still rife - a
school is raising money for a charity I work with, donating via
individual fundraising pages on a website (BT MyDonate, much better than
Justgiving, doesn't take any cut). We had a panicked call from one
beleaguered mother who had given money direct to us rather than via the
page, so her daughter was well below her peers. In the end we gave her
her money back so she could restore parity via the fundraising page.
So the moral blackmail is all still flourishing, only the nuns have
disappeared.
A ladder of gifts given by kids is very bad. So what do the poor
parents who need help from food banks do?
I doubt very much if the primary school I went to in the fifties had
children whose parents would been at that level of poverty (and if they
had, the nuns would have helped). As for the fundraising school today, I
don't know what background issues there may be, but the kids (all at
least 16) are raising money through sponsored walks and the like. The
pressure is going to be there whatever the circumstances.
Do you object in principle to anyone trying to raise money for charity?
Who, me? Or.... anotherRat? For me, the moral blackmail is my objection but
also when individuals request others to ‘sponsor them’ to do something for
‘charity’ that In itself, benefits no-one in any way except producers of
bath loads of baked beans or whatever.
snipped a bit. Apologies if too many attributions have gone...
I think it was Vicky who said that the ladder of gifts was very bad, and
what about food banks.
But you seem to be ruling out fundraising altogether? I agree that there
is much that is ridiculous in these telethon extravaganzas, and much
that is wrong in the governance of some of the big charities, but is
that a reason to rule it all out just like that?
Moral blackmail is always going to be a factor. But should that mean we
stop fundraising for deserving causes?
Having heard the article about fundraising in town centres being not all
they seem to be I think I’d be very wary of anyone in a tee shirt, a label
round their neck and a bucket in future. I detest asking the public for
donations, always have done ever since I began voluntary work un the easy
1970s,

Sincerely Chris
Flop
2018-12-22 14:11:30 UTC
Permalink
On 22/12/2018 13:51, Chris McMillan wrote:



100+ lines snipped
Post by Chris McMillan
Having heard the article about fundraising in town centres being not all
they seem to be I think I’d be very wary of anyone in a tee shirt, a label
round their neck and a bucket in future. I detest asking the public for
donations, always have done ever since I began voluntary work un the easy
1970s,
Sincerely Chris
We have a very defined approach to charity giving.

Each year we decide on a charity each (having checked on salaries for
CEOs etc) and then donate a significant amount with Gift Aid.

Thereafter we reject any appeals with "we do planned giving. It may be
your turn next year".

A bit harsh but with a clear conscience.
--
Flop

I want to re-marry my ex.
She thinks I am after my money.
LFS
2018-12-22 14:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flop
100+ lines snipped
Post by Chris McMillan
Having heard the article about fundraising in town centres being not all
they seem to be I think I’d be very wary of anyone in a tee shirt, a label
round their neck and a bucket in future. I detest asking the public for
donations, always have done ever since I began voluntary work un the easy
1970s,
Sincerely Chris
We have a very defined approach to charity giving.
Each year we decide on a charity each (having checked on salaries for
CEOs etc) and then donate a significant amount with Gift Aid.
Thereafter we reject any appeals with "we do planned giving. It may be
your turn next year".
A bit harsh but with a clear conscience.
A very sensible approach. We have a group of pet charities which we
support on a regular basis for specific personal reasons, using CAF or
Justgiving pages where available. We attend a variety of fundraising
events during the year and I am happy to sponsor the efforts of children
I know. But when I was working I found the many emails from colleagues
asking for sponsorship very annoying and refusing support made me
uncomfortable: I wish I'd thought of replying as you do.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Fenny
2018-12-22 19:41:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flop
We have a very defined approach to charity giving.
Each year we decide on a charity each (having checked on salaries for
CEOs etc) and then donate a significant amount with Gift Aid.
Thereafter we reject any appeals with "we do planned giving. It may be
your turn next year".
A bit harsh but with a clear conscience.
Not unlike mine. I select charities I agree with and make regular
donations. I also have an amount I donate to friends & family doing
certain sponsored events and to things like Christmas Jumper Day.

I don't like being pressganged into giving to causes that I haven't
checked out, or that I don't feel fit my priorities.
--
Fenny
Chris McMillan
2018-12-23 11:48:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flop
100+ lines snipped
Post by Chris McMillan
Having heard the article about fundraising in town centres being not all
they seem to be I think I’d be very wary of anyone in a tee shirt, a label
round their neck and a bucket in future. I detest asking the public for
donations, always have done ever since I began voluntary work un the easy
1970s,
Sincerely Chris
We have a very defined approach to charity giving.
Each year we decide on a charity each (having checked on salaries for
CEOs etc) and then donate a significant amount with Gift Aid.
Thereafter we reject any appeals with "we do planned giving. It may be
your turn next year".
A bit harsh but with a clear conscience.
The pittance I have does not reach GA heights, never has done.

Sincerely Chris
Sid Nuncius
2018-12-24 07:31:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Flop
100+ lines snipped
Thank you, Flop. This thread has become all but unreadable for me
because of the huge amount of scrolling, even though I'd like to read
what umrats say.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Fenny
2018-12-22 19:37:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 13:51:29 GMT, Chris McMillan
Post by Chris McMillan
Having heard the article about fundraising in town centres being not all
they seem to be I think I’d be very wary of anyone in a tee shirt, a label
round their neck and a bucket in future. I detest asking the public for
donations, always have done ever since I began voluntary work un the easy
1970s,
We get people in the centre of town holding bags of scruffy little
furry things or wristbands claiming to be raising money for "poor
children". One guy hassled me twice in the same day - he was standing
in the narrow section between shops and got me going in each
direction. I asked him who he was collecting for and he was very
cagey. I asked where he was from and he said Banbury. He failed to
give the name of any charity or any details of just what it was about.

When I got back in the office I contacted the person who issues
licences for charitabe collectors. She had no knowledge of him and
dispatched someone off to speak to him [1]. He went away, but came
back a few weeks later, still with no official information or
plausible story and was asked to leave and not return.

[1] It's about 300 yards from the council office to the shopping area
and most of the staff walk up there at lunchtime, so a visiting
officer can usually be found to pay a call.
--
Fenny
Jenny M Benson
2018-12-22 17:42:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
But you seem to be ruling out fundraising altogether? I agree that there
is much that is ridiculous in these telethon extravaganzas, and much
that is wrong in the governance of some of the big charities, but is
that a reason to rule it all out just like that?
I'm all for fundraising for charity, but I do object to being asked to
sponsor someone to - for example - trek the Great Wall of China. I
would happily sponsor someone to weed an elderly person's garden or pick
up litter in the streets or deliver blankets to homeless people, for 3
examples.
--
Jenny M Benson
Vicky Ayech
2018-12-22 12:07:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by Vicky Ayech
A ladder of gifts given by kids is very bad. So what do the poor
parents who need help from food banks do?
I doubt very much if the primary school I went to in the fifties had
children whose parents would been at that level of poverty (and if they
had, the nuns would have helped). As for the fundraising school today, I
don't know what background issues there may be, but the kids (all at
least 16) are raising money through sponsored walks and the like. The
pressure is going to be there whatever the circumstances.
Do you object in principle to anyone trying to raise money for charity?
Who, me? Or.... anotherRat? For me, the moral blackmail is my objection but
also when individuals request others to ‘sponsor them’ to do something for
‘charity’ that In itself, benefits no-one in any way except producers of
bath loads of baked beans or whatever.
I'm not sure if this is in that category but #1 daughter got everyone
charity gifts this year. She got Capt Ex a dinner where they pay and
the charity money goes to refugees. I think she paid for his dinner,
and both daughters went. But she got me and her sister items from
https://choose.love/ :). I am pleased to have my gift as this. It's
just when I offered something similar a couple of years ago to a
charity she said she would prefer a present!
No, I am not Jenny and she is not Kate.
Penny
2018-12-22 12:16:31 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 11:44:09 GMT, Mike <***@ntlworld.com> scrawled
in the dust...
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Do you object in principle to anyone trying to raise money for charity?
Who, me? Or.... anotherRat? For me, the moral blackmail is my objection but
also when individuals request others to ‘sponsor them’ to do something for
‘charity’ that In itself, benefits no-one in any way except producers of
bath loads of baked beans or whatever.
Not as bad, in my view, as those who ask for sponsorship to do something
they fancy doing anyway, like visiting a foreign country or jumping out of
a plane (each to their own) "for charity".

I'm happy to give to charity and will occasionally give money to a child
who asks for sponsorship but will give a flat amount not based upon the
length of a silence or distance walked. So I suppose I don't like the
competitive aspect.

I currently subscribe to a couple of local charity lotteries but know I
would feel guilty if I actually won.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2018-12-22 12:42:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
in the dust...
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Do you object in principle to anyone trying to raise money for charity?
Who, me? Or.... anotherRat? For me, the moral blackmail is my objection but
also when individuals request others to ‘sponsor them’ to do something for
‘charity’ that In itself, benefits no-one in any way except producers of
bath loads of baked beans or whatever.
Not as bad, in my view, as those who ask for sponsorship to do something
they fancy doing anyway, like visiting a foreign country or jumping out of
a plane (each to their own) "for charity".
I'm happy to give to charity and will occasionally give money to a child
who asks for sponsorship but will give a flat amount not based upon the
length of a silence or distance walked. So I suppose I don't like the
competitive aspect.
I currently subscribe to a couple of local charity lotteries but know I
would feel guilty if I actually won.
I was trying to be brief but almost did write about those requesting
sponsorship to do something they want to do for themselves, such as a
skydiving experience or whatever. If they wish to have the experience, they
should pay for it themselves - they might even donate that amount instead
of having the experience!
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2018-12-22 18:49:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 12:42:55 GMT, Mike <***@ntlworld.com> scrawled
in the dust...
Post by Mike
I was trying to be brief but almost did write about those requesting
sponsorship to do something they want to do for themselves, such as a
skydiving experience or whatever. If they wish to have the experience, they
should pay for it themselves - they might even donate that amount instead
of having the experience!
I used to love jumble sales, organising, helping or just attending - what
happened to them?
A friend who could always be relied upon to help admitted one day that she
hated them and reckoned most people felt the same way. She suggested we
should go door to door asking people to pay us NOT to hold a jumble sale.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Chris McMillan
2018-12-23 11:48:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
in the dust...
Post by Mike
I was trying to be brief but almost did write about those requesting
sponsorship to do something they want to do for themselves, such as a
skydiving experience or whatever. If they wish to have the experience, they
should pay for it themselves - they might even donate that amount instead
of having the experience!
I used to love jumble sales, organising, helping or just attending - what
happened to them?
A friend who could always be relied upon to help admitted one day that she
hated them and reckoned most people felt the same way. She suggested we
should go door to door asking people to pay us NOT to hold a jumble sale.
They changed into tabletop or car boot sales I think.

Sincerely Chris
Sam Plusnet
2018-12-23 21:29:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Penny
in the dust...
Post by Mike
I was trying to be brief but almost did write about those requesting
sponsorship to do something they want to do for themselves, such as a
skydiving experience or whatever. If they wish to have the experience, they
should pay for it themselves - they might even donate that amount instead
of having the experience!
I used to love jumble sales, organising, helping or just attending - what
happened to them?
A friend who could always be relied upon to help admitted one day that she
hated them and reckoned most people felt the same way. She suggested we
should go door to door asking people to pay us NOT to hold a jumble sale.
They changed into tabletop or car boot sales I think.
Instead, things get sold on Ebay as vintage/retro/antique.

Or given away on Freecyle -and then sold on Ebay as...
--
Sam Plusnet
Penny
2018-12-23 23:05:52 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 23 Dec 2018 21:29:50 +0000, Sam Plusnet <***@home.com> scrawled in
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Penny
in the dust...
Post by Mike
I was trying to be brief but almost did write about those requesting
sponsorship to do something they want to do for themselves, such as a
skydiving experience or whatever. If they wish to have the experience, they
should pay for it themselves - they might even donate that amount instead
of having the experience!
I used to love jumble sales, organising, helping or just attending - what
happened to them?
A friend who could always be relied upon to help admitted one day that she
hated them and reckoned most people felt the same way. She suggested we
should go door to door asking people to pay us NOT to hold a jumble sale.
They changed into tabletop or car boot sales I think.
Instead, things get sold on Ebay as vintage/retro/antique.
Or given away on Freecyle -and then sold on Ebay as...
Or given to charity shops - which is fine except charity shops charge way
more than jumble sales and don't keep and sell any damaged stuff. I used to
make clothes for myself and my children from clothing and curtains bought
at jumble sales and fettle elderly 'things' for use at home.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Vicky Ayech
2018-12-24 09:35:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
the dust...
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by Penny
I used to love jumble sales, organising, helping or just attending - what
happened to them?
A friend who could always be relied upon to help admitted one day that she
hated them and reckoned most people felt the same way. She suggested we
should go door to door asking people to pay us NOT to hold a jumble sale.
They changed into tabletop or car boot sales I think.
Instead, things get sold on Ebay as vintage/retro/antique.
Or given away on Freecyle -and then sold on Ebay as...
Or given to charity shops - which is fine except charity shops charge way
more than jumble sales and don't keep and sell any damaged stuff. I used to
make clothes for myself and my children from clothing and curtains bought
at jumble sales and fettle elderly 'things' for use at home.
I suppose the venue is often free at jumble sales and the event is a
one time, not a shop manned all day. Also charity shops often have a
paid manager and I know about Oxfam ones they have headquarters to
support and in the Putney one they did a huge unnecessary renovation
and change of layout. Jumble sales are less organised. The money goes
right to the target.

Fenny
2018-12-22 19:43:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
I currently subscribe to a couple of local charity lotteries but know I
would feel guilty if I actually won.
Since our local lotto started in April, I've won about £35 in 3
separate draws (all early on). Since then, I've not won anything
else, but happily donate to my chosen group.
--
Fenny
Vicky Ayech
2018-12-22 11:59:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kate B
Post by Vicky Ayech
Post by Kate B
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by Kate B
Post by SODAM
Post by Rosemary Miskin
Post by Sid Nuncius
No, Mike, if you have made runs then you can't have got a rapid duck...
Sorry, what were you saying about trying to explain the concept of cricket?
That brings back memories of my big brother, when I was about 4, trying to
explain the concept of a golden duck. Apparently I was upset when no duck
was produced for the batsman!
Rosemary
My father (peace be upon him) told me that he gave some pennies to the
Lenten Alms for “the black babies” when he was small. He was distressed
when Easter came and he wasn’t  given a black baby of his own.
That would have been about a hundred years ago, I realise with
astonishment.
We did this in my Catholic primary school, rather less than a hundred
years ago. There was a very large picture of Our Lady at the top of some
steps, and each of us had a little black paper baby. Every threepence we
gave entitled us to pin our baby to the next step up.  If every baby
wasn't on the top step by the end of the Lent term the atmosphere became
very un-holiday-like and words were had with the collecting parents.
I'm not sure whether any of us actually expected to get a baby at the
end of this exercise, though. The nuns were quite strict and there were
very few rewards for anything much.
I have always felt this form of moral blackmail is particularly nasty - and
certainly well below any organisation working in the name of a religion or
charity.
I don't wish to be ungallant towards Kate but I believe we are talking
about a time fifty or more years ago and people's ideas then about what
was good and what was right were very different. This was only a little
after the time that the British government thought it was a good idea to
bundle up children who had lost their parents - and some children who
had not - ship them out to Australia and give them away to anybody who
would take them. I'm not aware that the general public thought that a
bad idea at the time.
We've had to come this far forward to see now that these and so many
other practices and attitudes were wrong and I dare say that fifty years
into the future people will look back at things we now consider normal
and say how barbaric we all were back then.
Nick
Thank you, Nick. It was indeed umpty-cough years ago, perhaps only a
decade or so after Windrush. Even in Brixton there were still very few
black people from anywhere.
I might add that being made to think of the poor starving black babies
in Africa is not a bad thing in itself. And as for the competition
involved in getting to the top of the steps, this is still rife - a
school is raising money for a charity I work with, donating via
individual fundraising pages on a website (BT MyDonate, much better than
Justgiving, doesn't take any cut). We had a panicked call from one
beleaguered mother who had given money direct to us rather than via the
page, so her daughter was well below her peers. In the end we gave her
her money back so she could restore parity via the fundraising page.
So the moral blackmail is all still flourishing, only the nuns have
disappeared.
A ladder of gifts given by kids is very bad. So what do the poor
parents who need help from food banks do?
I doubt very much if the primary school I went to in the fifties had
children whose parents would been at that level of poverty (and if they
had, the nuns would have helped). As for the fundraising school today, I
don't know what background issues there may be, but the kids (all at
least 16) are raising money through sponsored walks and the like. The
pressure is going to be there whatever the circumstances.
Do you object in principle to anyone trying to raise money for charity?
No definitely not. I give money to charities and try to share
information about them so others might give. I didn't like the idea of
children from poor families, and there are plenty of them I believe,
feeling less valued because they and their parents were not able to
raise as much as otehr families with more money. I was thinking of
families just given money when I posted but even families raising
money will be at a disadvantage I think if the parents are spending
their energy walking to food banks.
Penny
2018-12-21 14:29:54 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 09:09:47 GMT, Mike <***@ntlworld.com> scrawled
in the dust...
Post by Mike
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
You just _knew_ it was going to happen. I know it's pantomime season,
but ...
[I never saw the attraction of the traditional pantomime anyway, even
when I was the target age (about 4?). Not that I want to Scrooge
anyone's genuine enjoyment that is ...]
You and me too, Jpeg.
Nor I! (Try explaining the concept to a foreigner - about as
straight-forward as explaining the concept of cricket) [Runs away and
ducks rapidly]
I was amused recently by the (shocked) reaction of two American actor
guests on the sofa on the Graham Norton Show when Dawn French and Graham
were discussing her panto appearance and the audience responded as
expected. Little attempt was made to explain it to them.

I quite like panto, provided most of the audience know how it works. I
attended one at the Hazlitt in Maidstone (d#2 was working lights) and many
of the audience were too young to have experience of their part in
proceedings and others, apparently, too shy. I found myself working quite
hard to get the proper responses going.

I enjoyed taking part in one a few years back too.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Sid Nuncius
2018-12-21 16:46:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
I quite like panto, provided most of the audience know how it works. I
attended one at the Hazlitt in Maidstone (d#2 was working lights) and many
of the audience were too young to have experience of their part in
proceedings and others, apparently, too shy. I found myself working quite
hard to get the proper responses going.
I enjoyed taking part in one a few years back too.
Well done panto, with a knowing audience can be quite fun. IMO, quite a
lot of amateur panto is rather more enjoyable for the cast than for the
audience. (Or perhaps I'm just a miserable git.)
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Mike
2018-12-21 17:10:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Penny
I quite like panto, provided most of the audience know how it works. I
attended one at the Hazlitt in Maidstone (d#2 was working lights) and many
of the audience were too young to have experience of their part in
proceedings and others, apparently, too shy. I found myself working quite
hard to get the proper responses going.
I enjoyed taking part in one a few years back too.
Well done panto, with a knowing audience can be quite fun. IMO, quite a
lot of amateur panto is rather more enjoyable for the cast than for the
audience. (Or perhaps I'm just a miserable git.)
Oh hello Sid, yes, this is the miserable gits club, come on in, the
beginners class starts in a few minutes; I’m sure you will enjoy the
journey as I have over many years.
--
Toodle Pip
BrritSki
2018-12-21 17:18:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
I quite like panto, provided most of the audience know how it works. I
attended one at the Hazlitt in Maidstone (d#2 was working lights) and many
of the audience were too young to have experience of their part in
proceedings and others, apparently, too shy. I found myself working quite
hard to get the proper responses going.
I enjoyed taking part in one a few years back too.
Well done panto, with a knowing audience can be quite fun.  IMO, quite a
lot of amateur panto is rather more enjoyable for the cast than for the
audience.  (Or perhaps I'm just a miserable git.)
<languid wave> to both bits of that...
Penny
2018-12-21 18:58:57 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 16:46:59 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Penny
I quite like panto, provided most of the audience know how it works. I
attended one at the Hazlitt in Maidstone (d#2 was working lights) and many
of the audience were too young to have experience of their part in
proceedings and others, apparently, too shy. I found myself working quite
hard to get the proper responses going.
I enjoyed taking part in one a few years back too.
Well done panto, with a knowing audience can be quite fun. IMO, quite a
lot of amateur panto is rather more enjoyable for the cast than for the
audience. (Or perhaps I'm just a miserable git.)
I should, perhaps, have added S-i-L's take on panto. He, as tech manager of
a large theatre, hated it. Up to 16 shows a week for 6-8 weeks in the
theatre itself was hard but then there was the year they were rebuilding
the theatre and put it on in a big tent instead - new and interesting
problems there.

OTOH, it was how he met d#2...

He has a different job now and I know he misses the theatre (although he
still meets some of the people he used to deal with). He now gets a whole
week off between Christmas and New Year and I'm sure he doesn't miss panto.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Kate B
2018-12-21 21:04:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Fri, 21 Dec 2018 16:46:59 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Penny
I quite like panto, provided most of the audience know how it works. I
attended one at the Hazlitt in Maidstone (d#2 was working lights) and many
of the audience were too young to have experience of their part in
proceedings and others, apparently, too shy. I found myself working quite
hard to get the proper responses going.
I enjoyed taking part in one a few years back too.
Well done panto, with a knowing audience can be quite fun. IMO, quite a
lot of amateur panto is rather more enjoyable for the cast than for the
audience. (Or perhaps I'm just a miserable git.)
I should, perhaps, have added S-i-L's take on panto. He, as tech manager of
a large theatre, hated it. Up to 16 shows a week for 6-8 weeks in the
theatre itself was hard but then there was the year they were rebuilding
the theatre and put it on in a big tent instead - new and interesting
problems there.
OTOH, it was how he met d#2...
He has a different job now and I know he misses the theatre (although he
still meets some of the people he used to deal with). He now gets a whole
week off between Christmas and New Year and I'm sure he doesn't miss panto.
--
Kate B
London
Chris J Dixon
2018-12-22 09:46:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
I should, perhaps, have added S-i-L's take on panto. He, as tech manager of
a large theatre, hated it. Up to 16 shows a week for 6-8 weeks in the
theatre itself was hard but then there was the year they were rebuilding
the theatre and put it on in a big tent instead - new and interesting
problems there.
Nevertheless, I bet that the income from the panto was what
enabled him to be kept in work for the remainder of the year.

Oh yes it was!

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
Penny
2018-12-22 12:36:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 09:46:28 +0000, Chris J Dixon <***@cdixon.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by Penny
I should, perhaps, have added S-i-L's take on panto. He, as tech manager of
a large theatre, hated it. Up to 16 shows a week for 6-8 weeks in the
theatre itself was hard but then there was the year they were rebuilding
the theatre and put it on in a big tent instead - new and interesting
problems there.
Nevertheless, I bet that the income from the panto was what
enabled him to be kept in work for the remainder of the year.
I'm not sure of the economics of it. The Panto production company
presumably take the largest cut and have the most people to pay, the
theatre taking some sort of hire fee enhanced by the number of casuals
employed to cope with it all. Most of the crew, box office staff and front
of house are casuals at that theatre.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Sid Nuncius
2018-12-22 09:58:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
I should, perhaps, have added S-i-L's take on panto. He, as tech manager of
a large theatre, hated it. Up to 16 shows a week for 6-8 weeks in the
theatre itself was hard but then there was the year they were rebuilding
the theatre and put it on in a big tent instead - new and interesting
problems there.
OTOH, it was how he met d#2...
He has a different job now and I know he misses the theatre
IT'S BEHIND HIM!


I'll get me coat.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Mike
2018-12-22 11:15:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Penny
I should, perhaps, have added S-i-L's take on panto. He, as tech manager of
a large theatre, hated it. Up to 16 shows a week for 6-8 weeks in the
theatre itself was hard but then there was the year they were rebuilding
the theatre and put it on in a big tent instead - new and interesting
problems there.
OTOH, it was how he met d#2...
He has a different job now and I know he misses the theatre
IT'S BEHIND HIM!
I'll get me coat.
You staged that one didn’t you?
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2018-12-22 12:18:31 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 09:58:14 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Penny
I should, perhaps, have added S-i-L's take on panto. He, as tech manager of
a large theatre, hated it. Up to 16 shows a week for 6-8 weeks in the
theatre itself was hard but then there was the year they were rebuilding
the theatre and put it on in a big tent instead - new and interesting
problems there.
OTOH, it was how he met d#2...
He has a different job now and I know he misses the theatre
IT'S BEHIND HIM!
:))
Post by Sid Nuncius
I'll get me coat.
Have you got your ticket, sir?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2018-12-22 12:44:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Sat, 22 Dec 2018 09:58:14 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Penny
I should, perhaps, have added S-i-L's take on panto. He, as tech manager of
a large theatre, hated it. Up to 16 shows a week for 6-8 weeks in the
theatre itself was hard but then there was the year they were rebuilding
the theatre and put it on in a big tent instead - new and interesting
problems there.
OTOH, it was how he met d#2...
He has a different job now and I know he misses the theatre
IT'S BEHIND HIM!
:))
Post by Sid Nuncius
I'll get me coat.
Have you got your ticket, sir?
Is this your coat Sir - the arse end of a cow?
--
Toodle Pip
LFS
2018-12-22 05:04:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
On the other hand .......
Sincerely Chris
Yes, the "rude mechanicals" fulfilling their function. Lazy SWing ...
You just _knew_ it was going to happen. I know it's pantomime season,
but ...
[I never saw the attraction of the traditional pantomime anyway, even
when I was the target age (about 4?). Not that I want to Scrooge
anyone's genuine enjoyment that is ...]
You and me too, Jpeg.
Sincerely Chris
Nor I! (Try explaining the concept to a foreigner - about as
straight-forward as explaining the concept of cricket) [Runs away and
ducks rapidly]
In the days before professional accountancy examiners took account of
diversity among students, an Iranian student I was coaching completed a
revision question accurately but told me that he didn't understand the
question. "What is a gee-nom-ee?" he kept asking. The question was about
a company manufacturing garden gnomes. Trying to explain this was one of
the greatest challenges of my teaching career.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Vicky Ayech
2018-12-22 09:49:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by LFS
Post by Mike
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
On the other hand .......
Sincerely Chris
Yes, the "rude mechanicals" fulfilling their function. Lazy SWing ...
You just _knew_ it was going to happen. I know it's pantomime season,
but ...
[I never saw the attraction of the traditional pantomime anyway, even
when I was the target age (about 4?). Not that I want to Scrooge
anyone's genuine enjoyment that is ...]
You and me too, Jpeg.
Sincerely Chris
Nor I! (Try explaining the concept to a foreigner - about as
straight-forward as explaining the concept of cricket) [Runs away and
ducks rapidly]
In the days before professional accountancy examiners took account of
diversity among students, an Iranian student I was coaching completed a
revision question accurately but told me that he didn't understand the
question. "What is a gee-nom-ee?" he kept asking. The question was about
a company manufacturing garden gnomes. Trying to explain this was one of
the greatest challenges of my teaching career.
:)
As I taught English to students from other countries, also teaching
about UK culture was part of the deal. As well as helping with any
aspect of UK life that they had queries about, officialdom, Drs, etc.
Chris McMillan
2018-12-22 13:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by LFS
Post by Mike
Post by Chris McMillan
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by Chris McMillan
On the other hand .......
Sincerely Chris
Yes, the "rude mechanicals" fulfilling their function. Lazy SWing ...
You just _knew_ it was going to happen. I know it's pantomime season,
but ...
[I never saw the attraction of the traditional pantomime anyway, even
when I was the target age (about 4?). Not that I want to Scrooge
anyone's genuine enjoyment that is ...]
You and me too, Jpeg.
Sincerely Chris
Nor I! (Try explaining the concept to a foreigner - about as
straight-forward as explaining the concept of cricket) [Runs away and
ducks rapidly]
In the days before professional accountancy examiners took account of
diversity among students, an Iranian student I was coaching completed a
revision question accurately but told me that he didn't understand the
question. "What is a gee-nom-ee?" he kept asking. The question was about
a company manufacturing garden gnomes. Trying to explain this was one of
the greatest challenges of my teaching career.
Roars out loud. Can imagine that all too well!

Explaining the town and the practice is hard enough!

Sincerely Chris
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