Intelligent Spending

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme
These changes will affectt he lives of many more New Zealanders than a
small number of new Motorways. Labour is looking to help all New
Sealanders, and local businesses through spending such as this. Well
done.

Good stuff Rich. That's 1.4 billion not being spent on relieving
those overloaded, bottlenecked highways that cause longer travel times
on a daily basis for many hundreds of thousands on motorists who use
Auckland and Wellington motorways daily.

Its 1.4 billion being spent on making highways safer for those
incapable of driving safely to the conditions. So those that flee
Police road patrols, secure in the knowledge that the faster they go
the faster the Police will give up chasing them, will have safer roads
to drive on.

Cheap shots? Yes but so are the comments of Twyford and Genter in
that article.

--
Crash McBash

Gordon

2019-12-22 04:06:35 UTC

Good stuff Rich. That's 1.4 billion not being spent on relieving
those overloaded, bottlenecked highways that cause longer travel times
on a daily basis for many hundreds of thousands on motorists who use
Auckland and Wellington motorways daily.
Its 1.4 billion being spent on making highways safer for those
incapable of driving safely to the conditions. So those that flee
Police road patrols, secure in the knowledge that the faster they go
the faster the Police will give up chasing them, will have safer roads
to drive on.

In the construction industry workers are required to wear PPE (Personal
Proective Equipment). The message that is all too often lost is one of, PPE
is your last line of defence, not your first.

Working in a safe way is far more important.

Making roads safer is good but safe driving will win over a safe road any
day.

Post by Crash
Cheap shots? Yes but so are the comments of Twyford and Genter in
that article.

So it was not a question then.

George

2019-12-22 19:18:39 UTC

On 22 Dec 2019 04:06:35 GMT

On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 17:17:52 +1300, Rich80105

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme
These changes will affectt he lives of many more New Zealanders
than a small number of new Motorways. Labour is looking to help all
New Sealanders, and local businesses through spending such as this.
Well done.

Good stuff Rich. That's 1.4 billion not being spent on relieving
those overloaded, bottlenecked highways that cause longer travel
times on a daily basis for many hundreds of thousands on motorists
who use Auckland and Wellington motorways daily.
Its 1.4 billion being spent on making highways safer for those
incapable of driving safely to the conditions. So those that flee
Police road patrols, secure in the knowledge that the faster they go
the faster the Police will give up chasing them, will have safer
roads to drive on.

In the construction industry workers are required to wear PPE
(Personal Proective Equipment). The message that is all too often
lost is one of, PPE is your last line of defence, not your first.
Working in a safe way is far more important.
Making roads safer is good but safe driving will win over a safe road
any day.

Separate the traffic streams and remove all solid poles, trees etc from
road sides.
That should stop the road toll until the crazies get inventive

Rich80105

2019-12-23 02:11:40 UTC

Post by George
On 22 Dec 2019 04:06:35 GMT

On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 17:17:52 +1300, Rich80105

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme
These changes will affectt he lives of many more New Zealanders
than a small number of new Motorways. Labour is looking to help all
New Sealanders, and local businesses through spending such as this.
Well done.

Good stuff Rich. That's 1.4 billion not being spent on relieving
those overloaded, bottlenecked highways that cause longer travel
times on a daily basis for many hundreds of thousands on motorists
who use Auckland and Wellington motorways daily.
Its 1.4 billion being spent on making highways safer for those
incapable of driving safely to the conditions. So those that flee
Police road patrols, secure in the knowledge that the faster they go
the faster the Police will give up chasing them, will have safer
roads to drive on.

In the construction industry workers are required to wear PPE
(Personal Proective Equipment). The message that is all too often
lost is one of, PPE is your last line of defence, not your first.
Working in a safe way is far more important.
Making roads safer is good but safe driving will win over a safe road
any day.

Separate the traffic streams and remove all solid poles, trees etc from
road sides.
That should stop the road toll until the crazies get inventive

A fair bit of that work will be included in the work the government is
prioritising. It will also includemore extensive work on some roads.
Statistics have been kept on "hot spots," and in all regions work is
being prioritised for most effect. The restoration of the Napier -
Gisborne rail link will help road travel as well.

James Christophers

2019-12-22 21:09:32 UTC

To inelegantly paraphrase the Rome/Nero cliché: traffic chokes while politicians bicker.

Result? Little done **over decades**. Been going on for at least the last 40 years.

Big - possibly inspired - ideas confronted by a too-brief 3-year electoral cycle. Outcome? That cynical, self-serving eye on the next election, so commitment to any genuine long-term progress can never be assured. Add a nation living beyond its means (courtesy of foreign creditors) to an institutional hand-to-mouth crisis mindset and you get no less than you merit.

Scattered one-off congestion relief on a short term basis - no overall vision. Palliative, not cure. If there were that overall vision, some form of bi-partisan budgeting would be conceived and planned, approved, locked in and ring fenced on a 20/30/40 year prognosis. Today? All talk, no walk. New Zealand's national hobby.

The entire shambles perpetually compromised by a chronic, even wilful, blindness to an all-prevailing torpor and complacency, this being the root cause of the country's dismal, intractable low per-capita productivity.

Simply wake from a half-century's go-nowhere lotus-eating coma and there's a 50% chance of seeing some small sign of a political Damascene moment.

Hmmmm...Holding yer breath, anyone..?

Post by Crash
Its 1.4 billion being spent on making highways safer for those
incapable of driving safely to the conditions. So those that flee
Police road patrols, secure in the knowledge that the faster they go
the faster the Police will give up chasing them, will have safer roads
to drive on.
Cheap shots? Yes but so are the comments of Twyford and Genter in
that article.
--
Crash McBash

Unknown

2019-12-23 00:30:47 UTC

Post by James Christophers
Big - possibly inspired - ideas confronted by a too-brief 3-year
electoral cycle.

Post by Crash
--
Crash McBash

Wherefore this imbecile delusion that the electoral cycle too brief?
Does not every employee have to pass his yearly performance appraisal?
Why not the EMPLOYEES OF THE PEOPLE, hired BY THE PEOPLE to take
care of the country?

The electoral cycle is, if anything, too long. I want to be able to
dismiss underperforming employees (MPs, ministers, and, why not, also
judges, and definitely whole plethora of commissioners and te tiriti
swill munchers) EVERY YEAR.

James Christophers

2019-12-23 04:46:36 UTC

Post by James Christophers
Big - possibly inspired - ideas confronted by a too-brief 3-year
electoral cycle.

Post by Crash
--
Crash McBash

In government, performance is down to the quality of both appraised **and** appraiser. So that's yer glaring, intractable problem right there! So by all means vote all you like lad, but it's always going to be Forrest Gump's box of chocolates yer gonna end up with.

Post by Unknown
The electoral cycle is, if anything, too long. I want to be able to
dismiss underperforming employees (MPs, ministers, and, why not, also
judges, and definitely whole plethora of commissioners and te tiriti
swill munchers) EVERY YEAR.

I get your drift and go with much of it. But how do you get long-term commitment to anything resulting in a solid focused consistency and stability when there's so much buggering about with them due to febrile partisan forces bearing on them; this purely because of some drive-by political whim or at the behest of lobbyists who have nothing but their own selfish interests in mind "and be buggered to rest of you suckers!"

Unknown

2019-12-29 11:43:54 UTC

Post by James Christophers

Post by James Christophers
Big - possibly inspired - ideas confronted by a too-brief 3-year
electoral cycle.

Post by Crash
--
Crash McBash

In government, performance is down to the quality of both appraised
**and** appraiser. So that's yer glaring, intractable problem right
there! So by all means vote all you like lad, but it's always going to
be Forrest Gump's box of chocolates yer gonna end up with.

I get your drift and go with much of it. But how do you get long-term
commitment to anything resulting in a solid focused consistency and
stability when there's so much buggering about with them due to febrile
partisan forces bearing on them; this purely because of some drive-by
political whim or at the behest of lobbyists who have nothing but their
own selfish interests in mind "and be buggered to rest of you suckers!"

Agreed and agreed (sigh).

Rich80105

2019-12-23 09:18:55 UTC

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 00:30:47 -0000 (UTC), Unknown

Post by James Christophers
Big - possibly inspired - ideas confronted by a too-brief 3-year
electoral cycle.

Post by Crash
--
Crash McBash

Wherefore this imbecile delusion that the electoral cycle too brief?
Does not every employee have to pass his yearly performance appraisal?
Why not the EMPLOYEES OF THE PEOPLE, hired BY THE PEOPLE to take
care of the country?
The electoral cycle is, if anything, too long. I want to be able to
dismiss underperforming employees (MPs, ministers, and, why not, also
judges, and definitely whole plethora of commissioners and te tiriti
swill munchers) EVERY YEAR.

If you count an election campaign of say two months each year, plus a
settle in time after an election of say 1 to 2 months, that nicely
reduces the time for legislation to 2/3rds of a year - so we get
either rushed legislation or at best just inadequately planned
legislation - then there are the costs:

https://fyi.org.nz/request/5336/response/17085/attach/4/OIA%20Request%20Tom%20Andrews.pdf

How much do you think you would need to increase income tax by to pay
for it all, "Unknown"?

Unknown

2019-12-29 12:04:24 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 00:30:47 -0000 (UTC), Unknown

Post by James Christophers
Big - possibly inspired - ideas confronted by a too-brief 3-year
electoral cycle.

Post by Crash
--
Crash McBash

Wherefore this imbecile delusion that the electoral cycle too brief?
Does not every employee have to pass his yearly performance appraisal?
Why not the EMPLOYEES OF THE PEOPLE, hired BY THE PEOPLE to take care of
the country?
The electoral cycle is, if anything, too long. I want to be able to
dismiss underperforming employees (MPs, ministers, and, why not, also
judges, and definitely whole plethora of commissioners and te tiriti
swill munchers) EVERY YEAR.

New Zealand has unicameral Westminster legislature and cabinet.
Which means, New Zealand is an indirectly elected (by the house),
short term dictatorship. Shortening the term of the house elected
dictator, whether blue or red, is, in my view, good.

Post by Rich80105
https://fyi.org.nz/request/5336/response/17085/attach/4/OIA%20Request%

20Tom%20Andrews.pdf

Post by Rich80105
How much do you think you would need to increase income tax by to pay
for it all, "Unknown"?

I would not. I would simply stop wasting treasury funds on parasites.
And on daft and malicious toy projects.

James Christophers

2019-12-30 02:06:40 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 00:30:47 -0000 (UTC), Unknown

Post by James Christophers
Big - possibly inspired - ideas confronted by a too-brief 3-year
electoral cycle.

Post by Crash
--
Crash McBash

Wherefore this imbecile delusion that the electoral cycle too brief?
Does not every employee have to pass his yearly performance appraisal?
Why not the EMPLOYEES OF THE PEOPLE, hired BY THE PEOPLE to take care of
the country?
The electoral cycle is, if anything, too long. I want to be able to
dismiss underperforming employees (MPs, ministers, and, why not, also
judges, and definitely whole plethora of commissioners and te tiriti
swill munchers) EVERY YEAR.

Post by Rich80105
https://fyi.org.nz/request/5336/response/17085/attach/4/OIA%20Request%

20Tom%20Andrews.pdf

Post by Rich80105
How much do you think you would need to increase income tax by to pay
for it all, "Unknown"?

I would not. I would simply stop wasting treasury funds on parasites.
And on daft and malicious toy projects.

Any form of government caters to parasitic elements since the former are merely the latter, albeit in terms of different guise and status. They are, essentially, symbiotic.

That said, who or what possesses the authority to grant you the powers to do things your way; and who or what would, in turn, would be empowered to grant them that authority ....and so on, ad infinitum?

Your turn...

Crash

2019-12-25 05:04:15 UTC

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 00:30:47 -0000 (UTC), Unknown

Post by James Christophers
Big - possibly inspired - ideas confronted by a too-brief 3-year
electoral cycle.

Post by Crash
--
Crash McBash

Wherefore this imbecile delusion that the electoral cycle too brief?
Does not every employee have to pass his yearly performance appraisal?
Why not the EMPLOYEES OF THE PEOPLE, hired BY THE PEOPLE to take
care of the country?
The electoral cycle is, if anything, too long. I want to be able to
dismiss underperforming employees (MPs, ministers, and, why not, also
judges, and definitely whole plethora of commissioners and te tiriti
swill munchers) EVERY YEAR.

Just to be clear that the comments above were not made by me but were
made by James.

--
Crash McBash

Rich80105

2019-12-25 07:58:26 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 00:30:47 -0000 (UTC), Unknown

Post by James Christophers
Big - possibly inspired - ideas confronted by a too-brief 3-year
electoral cycle.

Post by Crash
--
Crash McBash

Wherefore this imbecile delusion that the electoral cycle too brief?
Does not every employee have to pass his yearly performance appraisal?
Why not the EMPLOYEES OF THE PEOPLE, hired BY THE PEOPLE to take
care of the country?
The electoral cycle is, if anything, too long. I want to be able to
dismiss underperforming employees (MPs, ministers, and, why not, also
judges, and definitely whole plethora of commissioners and te tiriti
swill munchers) EVERY YEAR.

Just to be clear that the comments above were not made by me but were
made by James.

Which is one of the reasons I prefer not to snip unless necessary - it
is too easy to leave misleading attributions.

Tony

2019-12-21 19:42:28 UTC

I do not believe that is true. The massive delays around our largest cities are
causing enormous costs to businesses and impacting people's lives in a negative
way.
The real issue here is that the Green party's fixation on public transport is
totally misplaced. Yes of course we need good public transport within
metropolitan areas and even to outer suburbs but there are many commuter
townships that have no decent public transport and for which the cost of
providing it is prohibitive. In Wellington the commuter train service stops at
Waikanae and the same scenario exits, only worse, in Auckland. Those people who
live further away than the train services are reliant on roads that are no
longer going to be built. The difficulties are largely a consequence of the
topography of this country. The political falsehood that says we need public
transport instead of roads (yes that is what the greens are effectively saying)
defies logic. The Green party pretends to care about the planet but is in
reality using their false mantra to further their political ends.

Rich80105

2019-12-21 21:13:39 UTC

On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme
These changes will affectt he lives of many more New Zealanders than a
small number of new Motorways. Labour is looking to help all New
Zealanders, and local businesses through spending such as this. Well
done.

The spending on improving roads around the country is being led by The
Green Party! This will deliver much needed improvments to both safety
and travel times in a lot of places. I doubt that extending the
Wellington commuter rail beyond Waikanae will happen until
Transmission Gully is completed - demand is currently not sufficient
to warrant additional trains, but once the road through to Otaki is
complete I suspect it will be time to review that again - and possibly
to promote an extended service. Again, the previous government had not
even thought of the problems you identify for those north of Waikanae.
There is active planning to improve the rail link between Auckland and
Hamilton - critical to that has been an Auckland Council prepared to
consider other solutions than just extending the Motorway . . . The
move of the port has arisen from many considerations, but with
improved rail it will reduce road congestion right through Auckland.
Again this is something that the previous goverment was not prepared
to consider.

The National Party have recently released a policy paper on Transport,
see https://www.national.org.nz/transport_and_infrastructure

Not much there to address the problems of congestion in Auckland and
Wellington - although they are tacitly admitting that their policies
were responsible for much of the cock-up with the Wellington buses -
where Brownlee had required the Regional Council to award contracts
solely on the basis of price, and to enable suppliers to tender for
parts ofthe system - which policies led to Snapper cards not being
able to be used for all transport, and Snapper data not being
available for those planning new bus services. A more coordinated
approach requires more than just going for the lowest cost tenderer!

Your lie that the Green Party are saying we need public transport
instead of roads is just stupid sloganeering - akin to the nutter who
has led the "turn Ardern" campaign.

Tony

2019-12-21 21:47:40 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme
These changes will affectt he lives of many more New Zealanders than a
small number of new Motorways. Labour is looking to help all New
Zealanders, and local businesses through spending such as this. Well
done.

Irrelevant, it is this government that I am writing about.

Post by Rich80105
The National Party have recently released a policy paper on Transport,
see https://www.national.org.nz/transport_and_infrastructure
Not much there to address the problems of congestion in Auckland and
Wellington - although they are tacitly admitting that their policies
were responsible for much of the cock-up with the Wellington buses -
where Brownlee had required the Regional Council to award contracts
solely on the basis of price, and to enable suppliers to tender for
parts ofthe system - which policies led to Snapper cards not being
able to be used for all transport, and Snapper data not being
available for those planning new bus services. A more coordinated
approach requires more than just going for the lowest cost tenderer!

Irrelevant, as above.
All you are doing is talking about National - this government is in power not
National. Why can you not stick to the subject?

Post by Rich80105
Your lie that the Green Party are saying we need public transport
instead of roads is just stupid sloganeering - akin to the nutter who
has led the "turn Ardern" campaign.

Not a lie at all, that is precisely what they have said.
You could just have debated but no you are again the first to damage a debate
with abuse - fuck off and have a miserable Christmas in your smelly little
hovel.

2019-12-22 01:49:10 UTC

Post by Rich80105
The spending on improving roads around the country is being led by The
Green Party!

The green party and the green phony environmental movement have a
great deal of influence in the Auckland council, and I can tell you
that the Auckland council are deliberately obstructing and sabotaging
the smooth flow of traffic in Auckland city. They have been narrowing
roads and removing free left turns and imposing all sorts of other
unnecessary obstructions on the roads in Auckland, all with the tacit
approval of left wing ex-Labour mayor Phil Goff. These people are
villains, and if there were any real justice they would all be behind
bars.

Bill.

Mutlley

2019-12-22 03:43:21 UTC

Post by BR

Post by Rich80105
The spending on improving roads around the country is being led by The
Green Party!

And unfortunately the idiot voters in Auckland voted them back in
again. Glad I've left the place.

Gordon

2019-12-22 03:56:39 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per hour to
get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to extend the train
service.

Tony

2019-12-23 19:39:58 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per hour to
get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to extend the train
service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to handle the
number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is plain daft,
we have never done that unlike some other more far-sighted countries.

George

2019-12-23 21:53:37 UTC

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

Tony

2019-12-23 21:57:34 UTC

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

Yes I should have pointed that out.
I recall a time some years ago when the coast road was closed by a slip which
also closed down the trains.

Rich80105

2019-12-24 00:52:16 UTC

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

My reason for saying that extending electrification from Waikanae
(possibly to Palmerston North) is unlikely to happen until
Transmission Gully is complete was resource issues (money and
manpower), and also that there will need to be considerable planning,
including route changes, before electrification, as there is also a
need to make trains faster. There are similar issues for the Auckand -
Hamilton route - it is pointless to only review some aspects of the
route - a faster service is desirable as well as emissions.

Transmission Gully does not provide much separation from SH1 in the
event of major eathquake issues, or ease the merging of SH1 and SH2 at
Ngauranga. Terrain causes problems for both Wellington and Auckland.

Tony

2019-12-24 01:07:25 UTC

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

So meanwhile we put up with second rate trains and no new roads of significance
from this government - yeah right! Incompetence.

Post by Rich80105
Transmission Gully does not provide much separation from SH1 in the
event of major eathquake issues, or ease the merging of SH1 and SH2 at
Ngauranga. Terrain causes problems for both Wellington and Auckland.

Transmission Gully will provide excellent separation when you take the terrain
into account. I suggest you look at a map. Terrain is almost always a problem
in this country.
This government cancelled the Tawa/Petone link which would have provided a very
good SH1/SH2 link which would in turn have dramatically reduced the Nauranga
congestion, why they would do that is anybody's guess.
Geroge does not talk to you, he is one of the smartest people here by making
that rule.

Rich80105

2019-12-24 01:25:08 UTC

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:07:25 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

So meanwhile we put up with second rate trains and no new roads of significance
from this government - yeah right! Incompetence.

Second rate trains? The current government is investing quite a lot in
new rolling stock. Electrification beyond Waikanae is a separate issue
- I do not believe there is currently sufficient demand to justify
electrification, but it will come; all I was saying is that
Transmission Gully is best progressed further before work starts - the
project should include reviewing the route as well as electrification.

Lack of return on capital, and the many other important roading
projects already being planned and underway mean that we do not need
another vanity project - well informed decision making looks at facts
rather than political rhetoric, Tony

Post by Tony
Geroge does not talk to you, he is one of the smartest people here by making
that rule.

I am sure Geroge will be flattered with your admiration - I was
however writing to whoever reads nz.general

Tony

2019-12-24 01:33:34 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:07:25 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

So meanwhile we put up with second rate trains and no new roads of significance
from this government - yeah right! Incompetence.

Second rate trains?

That is what you implied, not me. You wrote that they need to be faster -
second rate is tgherefore appropriate. And compared to most other countries
they are.

Post by Rich80105
The current government is investing quite a lot in
new rolling stock. Electrification beyond Waikanae is a separate issue
- I do not believe there is currently sufficient demand to justify
electrification, but it will come; all I was saying is that
Transmission Gully is best progressed further before work starts - the
project should include reviewing the route as well as electrification.

It is not a vanity project, it addresses your statement that there needs to be
a SH1/SH2 link, you cannot have it both ways. This government cancelled that
vital link.

Post by Tony
Geroge does not talk to you, he is one of the smartest people here by making
that rule.

I am sure Geroge will be flattered with your admiration - I was
however writing to whoever reads nz.general

You cannot help your incessant desire to use sarcasm.
I will tell you what.
Count how many typos you write a day and compare that to me - you lose by a
country mile but the difference is I do not make fun of your incompetent typing.

Rich80105

2019-12-24 04:17:00 UTC

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:33:34 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:07:25 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

So meanwhile we put up with second rate trains and no new roads of significance
from this government - yeah right! Incompetence.

Second rate trains?

That is what you implied, not me. You wrote that they need to be faster -
second rate is tgherefore appropriate. And compared to most other countries
they are.

It is not a vanity project, it addresses your statement that there needs to be
a SH1/SH2 link, you cannot have it both ways. This government cancelled that
vital link.

That was not my statement. There is a SH1/SH2 link through Haywards,
but the proposed road had huge problems - to persist in wasting money
on it when there are more urgent needs giving a better return on money
elsewhere would have made it a vanity project

Post by Tony
Geroge does not talk to you, he is one of the smartest people here by making
that rule.

I am sure Geroge will be flattered with your admiration - I was
however writing to whoever reads nz.general

I was making fun of your arrogance and stupidity, but you missed that.

Tony

2019-12-24 04:22:15 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:33:34 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:07:25 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

So meanwhile we put up with second rate trains and no new roads of significance
from this government - yeah right! Incompetence.

Second rate trains?

That is what you implied, not me. You wrote that they need to be faster -
second rate is tgherefore appropriate. And compared to most other countries
they are.

It is not a vanity project, it addresses your statement that there needs to be
a SH1/SH2 link, you cannot have it both ways. This government cancelled that
vital link.

No serious difficulties, no more than the rest of the project. You are making
that up.

Post by Tony
Geroge does not talk to you, he is one of the smartest people here by making
that rule.

I am sure Geroge will be flattered with your admiration - I was
however writing to whoever reads nz.general

I was making fun of your arrogance and stupidity, but you missed that.

No you were being sarcastic and your typing is atrocious.

George

2019-12-24 19:11:20 UTC

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:22:15 -0600

Post by Tony
No you were being sarcastic and your typing is atrocious.

The idea of editing the mishmash before hitting send may have not
occurred to him.
Merry christmas and have a great new year

Tony

2019-12-24 19:26:49 UTC

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:22:15 -0600

Post by Tony
No you were being sarcastic and your typing is atrocious.

The idea of editing the mishmash before hitting send may have not
occurred to him.
Merry christmas and have a great new year

And to you George. I cannot help but think about those poor souls fighting for
their lives and the bereaved families.

George

2019-12-24 20:32:36 UTC

On Tue, 24 Dec 2019 13:26:49 -0600

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 22:22:15 -0600

Post by Tony
No you were being sarcastic and your typing is atrocious.

The idea of editing the mishmash before hitting send may have not
occurred to him.
Merry christmas and have a great new year

And to you George. I cannot help but think about those poor souls
fighting for their lives and the bereaved families.

Sadly its worldwide.
And unceasing

John Bowes

2019-12-26 13:31:17 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 19:07:25 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

So meanwhile we put up with second rate trains and no new roads of significance
from this government - yeah right! Incompetence.

Political rhetoric is all we get from Winston's government and you rich!\

Post by Tony
Geroge does not talk to you, he is one of the smartest people here by making
that rule.

I am sure Geroge will be flattered with your admiration - I was
however writing to whoever reads nz.general

John Bowes

2019-12-26 13:27:18 UTC

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

You need to get into the modern age Rich! The main trunk railway has been electrified since 1988!

George

2019-12-26 19:22:24 UTC

On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 05:27:18 -0800 (PST)

Post by John Bowes
You need to get into the modern age Rich! The main trunk railway has
been electrified since 1988!

And for some reason they dont use it,
Its all engines rather than motors

John Bowes

2019-12-28 23:49:15 UTC

Post by George
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 05:27:18 -0800 (PST)

Post by John Bowes
You need to get into the modern age Rich! The main trunk railway has
been electrified since 1988!

And for some reason they dont use it,
Its all engines rather than motors

The electric engines reached their use by date and they're using diesels till someone in government get's their arse into gear and buy some new electric engines. Rich waffled about rolling stock which is also as old as Labours promises and will replace old rolling stock. but none of the rolling stock is electric ;)

Rich80105

2019-12-26 20:33:57 UTC

On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 05:27:18 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

You need to get into the modern age Rich! The main trunk railway has been electrified since 1988!

Fantastic! Do you have any proof?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/357007/govt-s-electric-train-promise-now-off-the-rails-union

Tony

2019-12-26 21:16:08 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 05:27:18 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

You need to get into the modern age Rich! The main trunk railway has been
electrified since 1988!

Fantastic! Do you have any proof?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/357007/govt-s-electric-train-promise-now-off-the-rails-union

Most of the main North Island railway trunk is electrified (Hamilton to
Palmerston North) and of course Wellington to Waikanae. Kiwirail announced a
few years ago that it was going to de-electrify because of ageing electric
engines and ordered some new diesel engines. This government cancelled that
decision in 2018 but as yet has not provided funding to electrify the small
sections that are not yet electric.
A simple google search would have avoided your immediate lapse into sarcasm.

Rich80105

2019-12-26 21:57:51 UTC

On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 15:16:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 05:27:18 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

You need to get into the modern age Rich! The main trunk railway has been
electrified since 1988!

Fantastic! Do you have any proof?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/357007/govt-s-electric-train-promise-now-off-the-rails-union

As you have so often instructed nz.general, Tony, your unsupported
post is merely an expression of your opinion - implying that it would
be foolhardy to rely on it. In contrast, I posted a link which
contains much the same information as you have now given (perhaps you
were not able to click on the link and read it).

Still, your persistent misguided criticism of others, your trenchant
sarcasm, and your determination to disagree with others even when your
posts indicate you agree, are a source of some little amusement, with
a clear link to the belligerent authoritarianism of your parliamentary
heroes . . .. Perhaps you can aspire to meet John Bowes' injunction
to get into the modern age!

Tony

2019-12-26 22:09:21 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 15:16:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 05:27:18 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

You need to get into the modern age Rich! The main trunk railway has been
electrified since 1988!

Fantastic! Do you have any proof?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/357007/govt-s-electric-train-promise-now-off-the-rails-union

Rich80105

2019-12-26 23:09:59 UTC

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

These changes will affect the lives of many more New Zealanders than a
small number of new Motorways. Labour is looking to help all New
Zealanders, and local businesses through spending such as this. Well
done.
_________________

Fixed.

Tony

2019-12-26 23:26:08 UTC

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

This government cancelled many of the roads that the previous government had
planned, they did this simply because they could. Translation - the National
government did it so we will undo it,
They did so because the Green party is largely made up of people that do not
actually care about the climate but pretend to care purely for political gain,
something that people that voted for them should be ashamed of, and this
government need the Green party.
The roads that were cancelled would have saved much more money and had a much
better effect on productivity than this cop out nonsense.
This government sees railways as a way to go but fails to understand that roads
are at least as important. And they fail to actually put any money into
alternative transport - all promises and no action as usual.
The Green party has a lot to answer for but this government will not hold them
to account and is therefore culpable. This government cares not one jot about
the people that voted for them and it shows in nearly all of their decisions,
the people are beginning to see the error of their ways.

Rich80105

2019-12-27 00:52:04 UTC

On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 17:26:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

This government cancelled many of the roads that the previous government had
planned, they did this simply because they could. Translation - the National
government did it so we will undo it,

What rubbish - and yet again you express an opinion that is not
justified by any evidence, and is of course plain wrong. They
continued some roads that were already underway, but did not proceed
with somethat had been announced by the National Party but with no
money allocated and/or no planning.

Post by Tony
They did so because the Green party is largely made up of people that do not
actually care about the climate but pretend to care purely for political gain,
something that people that voted for them should be ashamed of, and this
government need the Green party.

Blind biassed opinion again - it is not even worth the time to read .
. .

Post by Tony
The roads that were cancelled would have saved much more money and had a much
better effect on productivity than this cop out nonsense.

Again the lie without any supporting evidence - got that from
Whaeloil, did you Tony?

Post by Tony
This government sees railways as a way to go but fails to understand that roads
are at least as important.

What crap - Labour has pured much more money into roads than National
had allocated, and more than into rail. A balance is needed, Tony,
something you appear not to understand.

Post by Tony
And they fail to actually put any money into
alternative transport - all promises and no action as usual.

What are you on about? First you complain about an emphasis on rail
then say no money is being spent! Did you not hear the announcement
about the Gisborne - Wairoa link?

Post by Tony
The Green party has a lot to answer for but this government will not hold them
to account and is therefore culpable. This government cares not one jot about
the people that voted for them and it shows in nearly all of their decisions,
the people are beginning to see the error of their ways.

The Greens are an esential element of government, Tony - you appear to
have the National blinkers about MMP and want to pretend that the
government is only Labour. Get a life, Tony.

Tony

2019-12-27 01:12:38 UTC

Ignorant abusive creature, you are incapable of intelligent debate.
I did not abuse you, how is it that you cannot react without becoming abusive?
Ever since I caught you in multiple lies and multiple defamations you have
become worse.
Perhaps you are becoming disenchanted with this incompetent government.
Please do us all a favour and try to debate.

Crash

2019-12-28 00:50:21 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 17:26:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

This government cancelled many of the roads that the previous government had
planned, they did this simply because they could. Translation - the National
government did it so we will undo it,

Blind biassed opinion again - it is not even worth the time to read .

Rich you are in no position to cast aspersions on others about 'Blind
biassed opinion'. While I consider Tony's opinion on the Greens to be
a little excessive, I agree with his assessment that the Greens are
not an environmental champion. The fact is that Labour will always
need Green party support to form a government and the Greens in the
past have indicated that they will not consider joining National in
government. The Greens therefore earn your support.

Post by Rich80105
. .

Post by Tony
The roads that were cancelled would have saved much more money and had a much
better effect on productivity than this cop out nonsense.

Again the lie without any supporting evidence

Fair comment Rich.

Post by Rich80105
- got that from
Whaeloil, did you Tony?

Gratuitous insult that is pointless other than as proof that you are
rattled by Tony.

Post by Tony
This government sees railways as a way to go but fails to understand that roads
are at least as important.

What crap - Labour has pured much more money into roads than National
had allocated, and more than into rail.

Cite please. I believe most current spending is on projects already
under construction at the time of the last election. Since then
several projects planned by the prior government (ie Petone-Granada
link, Wellington Airport road access) have been cancelled. Some new
projects have been planned (ie Wellington light rail) but nothing has
been started. Feel free to debunk my opinion in support of your
assertions above.

Post by Rich80105
A balance is needed, Tony,
something you appear not to understand.

Post by Tony
And they fail to actually put any money into
alternative transport - all promises and no action as usual.

What are you on about? First you complain about an emphasis on rail
then say no money is being spent! Did you not hear the announcement
about the Gisborne - Wairoa link?

That is a specific ands small regional initiative.

The Greens are an esential element of government, Tony - you appear to
have the National blinkers about MMP and want to pretend that the
government is only Labour. Get a life, Tony.

Rich you appear to have your blinkers on again. Labour dominate the
current government as is appropriate, but require the support of NZF
and the Greens to govern. You are the first to point out that Labour
cannot govern alone when it comes to Labour policy not being enacted
by the current government. Labour have suffered public humiliation by
NZF several times so far this term. NZF are the essential element of
this government. Labour can always count on the Greens support
because the Greens have painted themselves into that corner.

--
Crash McBash

Tony

2019-12-28 01:32:01 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 17:26:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

This government cancelled many of the roads that the previous government had
planned, they did this simply because they could. Translation - the National
government did it so we will undo it,

Blind biassed opinion again - it is not even worth the time to read .

Post by Rich80105
. .

Post by Tony
The roads that were cancelled would have saved much more money and had a much
better effect on productivity than this cop out nonsense.

Again the lie without any supporting evidence

Fair comment Rich.

Except Crash, it was not a lie. My opinion that more roads would improve
productivity is reasonable and not hard to justify. I am always delighted to
see safer roads but I do not believe this is an either or situation.

Post by Rich80105
- got that from
Whaeloil, did you Tony?

Gratuitous insult that is pointless other than as proof that you are
rattled by Tony.

Post by Tony
This government sees railways as a way to go but fails to understand that roads
are at least as important.

What crap - Labour has pured much more money into roads than National
had allocated, and more than into rail.

Post by Rich80105
A balance is needed, Tony,
something you appear not to understand.

Post by Tony
And they fail to actually put any money into
alternative transport - all promises and no action as usual.

What are you on about? First you complain about an emphasis on rail
then say no money is being spent! Did you not hear the announcement
about the Gisborne - Wairoa link?

That is a specific ands small regional initiative.

The Greens are an esential element of government, Tony - you appear to
have the National blinkers about MMP and want to pretend that the
government is only Labour. Get a life, Tony.

Rich80105

2019-12-28 21:44:37 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 17:26:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

This government cancelled many of the roads that the previous government had
planned, they did this simply because they could. Translation - the National
government did it so we will undo it,

Blind biassed opinion again - it is not even worth the time to read .

Post by Rich80105
. .

Post by Tony
The roads that were cancelled would have saved much more money and had a much
better effect on productivity than this cop out nonsense.

Again the lie without any supporting evidence

Fair comment Rich.

Post by Rich80105
- got that from
Whaeloil, did you Tony?

Gratuitous insult that is pointless other than as proof that you are
rattled by Tony.

Post by Tony
This government sees railways as a way to go but fails to understand that roads
are at least as important.

What crap - Labour has poured much more money into roads than National
had allocated, and more than into rail.

Cite please. I believe most current spending is on projects already
under construction at the time of the last election.

And you would be correct. That is always the case. My point was that
the current government allocated more to roads than National had - but
much of it is fixing up existing roads to save lives. National had
announced some major road projects shortly before the election but had
not completed cost/benefit analysis, and had not allocated any money
to them - and now some are claiming that those projects were underway
under the previous government. In reality both governments have used
the Road Transport Fund fairly fully, and transport planning is
largely geared around expected income from fuel taxes and road user
charges.

A bigger infrastructure problem is underground services - Wellington
had a recent incident where waste water / sewage was going into the
Harbour - Auckland has less severe but persistent problems of sea
pollution from similar sources, but it is infratructure for new
development, and relapcement of aging existing systems that are a huge
problem - partially through underinvestment over many years, but also
through funding difficulties for local authorities.

Post by Crash
Since then
several projects planned by the prior government (ie Petone-Granada
link, Wellington Airport road access) have been cancelled. Some new
projects have been planned (ie Wellington light rail) but nothing has
been started. Feel free to debunk my opinion in support of your
assertions above.

Post by Rich80105
A balance is needed, Tony,
something you appear not to understand.

Post by Tony
And they fail to actually put any money into
alternative transport - all promises and no action as usual.

What are you on about? First you complain about an emphasis on rail
then say no money is being spent! Did you not hear the announcement
about the Gisborne - Wairoa link?

That is a specific ands small regional initiative.

The Greens are an esential element of government, Tony - you appear to
have the National blinkers about MMP and want to pretend that the
government is only Labour. Get a life, Tony.

I think you are making the same point as I was, Crash. Yes the Green
Party did say they could not work with National, but that is not a
long term commitment; the abortive attempt to ceate a new party to
work with National demonnstrates that some National supporters would
support such a link. The ability for any of Labour. NZ First and the
Green Party to veto any legislation ( subject to formal agreements)
does mean that each of them will use that power to negotiate support,
and that will cause the Greens to stand out on some issues. While the
Greens do have policies closer to Labour than National on social
issues, that also could change. I don;t think Labour can always count
on Green support, but National is currently showing no effort to court
the Greens - the current situation is likely to continue for the next
election.

John Bowes

2019-12-28 23:59:10 UTC

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme
These changes will affect the lives of many more New Zealanders than a
small number of new Motorways. Labour is looking to help all New
Zealanders, and local businesses through spending such as this. Well
done.
_________________
Fixed.

MWAHAHA! You over do the cooking sherry over Xmas Rich? :)

John Bowes

2019-12-28 23:58:12 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 15:16:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 05:27:18 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

You need to get into the modern age Rich! The main trunk railway has been
electrified since 1988!

Fantastic! Do you have any proof?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/357007/govt-s-electric-train-promise-now-off-the-rails-union

<further off topic lies from Rich snipped.

Post by Rich80105
Still, your persistent misguided criticism of others, your trenchant
sarcasm, and your determination to disagree with others even when your
posts indicate you agree, are a source of some little amusement, with
a clear link to the belligerent authoritarianism of your parliamentary
heroes . . .. Perhaps you can aspire to meet John Bowes' injunction
to get into the modern age!

Tony doesn't need it Rich. you on the other hand have just made a perfect description of your posting habits along with your persistent habit of ignoring inconvenient facts in your blind support of a corrupt and useless despotic government!

Are you incapable of using a spell checker Rich? Your posts indicate you're in desperate need of one. Maybe some five year old could expalin how handy they are to someone with your tech skills!

John Bowes

2019-12-28 23:53:19 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 05:27:18 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

You need to get into the modern age Rich! The main trunk railway has been
electrified since 1988!

Fantastic! Do you have any proof?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/357007/govt-s-electric-train-promise-now-off-the-rails-union

Lapse into sarcasm? It's Rich! He only does stupidity mate :)

John Bowes

2019-12-28 23:52:13 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Thu, 26 Dec 2019 05:27:18 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by George
On Mon, 23 Dec 2019 13:39:58 -0600

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme

With Tranmission Gully allowing another x thousnad of vehicles per
hour to get to and from Wellington. So there will be no need to
extend the train service.

Not sure that is right, the reason for Transmission Gully is to
handle the number of cars that currently use the route.
Any suggestion that this country plans roads in advance of need is
plain daft, we have never done that unlike some other more
far-sighted countries.

Also it gives a much needed alternative route into and out of Wellington

You need to get into the modern age Rich! The main trunk railway has been electrified since 1988!

Fantastic! Do you have any proof?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/357007/govt-s-electric-train-promise-now-off-the-rails-union

Plenty of proof Rich. but it's been a waste of time trying to educate you in the past so you'll have to get your head out of your arse and do some real research outside of norightturn, thestranded and Red flag for once in your wasted life :)

Tony

2019-12-22 06:00:01 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 21 Dec 2019 13:42:28 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/extra-2-400km-road-made-safer-in-governments-1-4-billion-programme
These changes will affectt he lives of many more New Zealanders than a
small number of new Motorways. Labour is looking to help all New
Zealanders, and local businesses through spending such as this. Well
done.

The spending on improving roads around the country is being led by The
Green Party! This will deliver much needed improvments to both safety
and travel times in a lot of places. I doubt that extending the
Wellington commuter rail beyond Waikanae will happen until
Transmission Gully is completed - demand is currently not sufficient
to warrant additional trains, but once the road through to Otaki is
complete I suspect it will be time to review that again - and possibly
to promote an extended service. Again, the previous government had not
even thought of the problems you identify for those north of Waikanae.
There is active planning to improve the rail link between Auckland and
Hamilton - critical to that has been an Auckland Council prepared to
consider other solutions than just extending the Motorway . . . The
move of the port has arisen from many considerations, but with
improved rail it will reduce road congestion right through Auckland.
Again this is something that the previous goverment was not prepared
to consider.
The National Party have recently released a policy paper on Transport,
see https://www.national.org.nz/transport_and_infrastructure
Not much there to address the problems of congestion in Auckland and
Wellington - although they are tacitly admitting that their policies
were responsible for much of the cock-up with the Wellington buses -
where Brownlee had required the Regional Council to award contracts
solely on the basis of price, and to enable suppliers to tender for
parts ofthe system - which policies led to Snapper cards not being
able to be used for all transport, and Snapper data not being
available for those planning new bus services. A more coordinated
approach requires more than just going for the lowest cost tenderer!
Your lie that the Green Party are saying we need public transport
instead of roads is just stupid sloganeering - akin to the nutter who
has led the "turn Ardern" campaign.

This government axed the highway that would have replaced this road that has
killed yet another human being.
Get a life you pathetic political idiot and try some balance instead of lies.

Gordon

2019-12-22 03:51:36 UTC