Take Command or 4NT

[Ralf Brinkmann]

Hi!

What is the advantage of the graphical interface of Take Command v.12
compared to 4NT v5.0?

In the web they write, that you can switch Take Command to different
languages, for example German. Is that difficult?

If I change to Take Command v12, can I adopt the most settings from 4NT?

Is Klaus still here?

Gruß, Ralf

[Klaus Meinhard]

Hallo Ralf,

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
What is the advantage of the graphical interface of Take Command v.12
compared to 4NT v5.0?

If you are used and happy with the command line, there is no pressing
need to use Take Command. It gives you an Explorer-style view of your
drives and files, plus the ability to have several console apps (eg.
TCC, your text editor, CMD.COM etc) in tabbed view. I think JP offers
some screenshots. 4NT has been renamed TCC (who knows that Win7 is a
NT version?), and you can still use it as a standalone console app,
much enhanced over 4nt v5.0

Then there is the free TCC / LE, which is a freeware version of the
current TCC. Youi might wish to see if you can live with the
restrictions.

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
In the web they write, that you can switch Take Command to different
languages, for example German. Is that difficult?

Usually automagically done by the installer, depending on the locale
of your OS.

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
If I change to Take Command v12, can I adopt the most settings from 4NT?

Yes. Most.

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
Is Klaus still here?

If I am the Klaus you mean, yes :-) Though there isn't much traffic to
respond to :-(

[Stan Brown]

Post by Klaus Meinhard
Then there is the free TCC / LE, which is a freeware version of the
current TCC. Youi might wish to see if you can live with the
restrictions.

I endorse that suggestion.

Some of the restrictions seem logical to me in a "lite" version: no
FTP access from the command line, for instance. Others are bizarre,
like removing the %@alias function. Still, given the price we can't
complain. :-)

[Caesar Romano]

On Fri, 5 Nov 2010 06:21:26 -0400, Stan Brown

Post by Stan Brown

Post by Klaus Meinhard
Then there is the free TCC / LE, which is a freeware version of the
current TCC. Youi might wish to see if you can live with the
restrictions.

I endorse that suggestion.
Some of the restrictions seem logical to me in a "lite" version: no
FTP access from the command line, for instance. Others are bizarre,
complain. :-)

+1 on that.

[Ralf Brinkmann]

Hallo Klaus!

Post by Klaus Meinhard
Hallo Ralf,

Oh, German. Nice! I want my old 4DOS.GER back!

Post by Klaus Meinhard

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
graphical interface

It gives you an Explorer-style view of your drives and files, plus the
ability to have several console apps (eg. TCC, your text editor,
CMD.COM etc) in tabbed view. I think JP offers some screenshots.

Yes, but I still don't know what to do with it. I've tried it out and
see everything. But what can I do now? If I walk up and donw in the tree
on the left side, nothing changes on the right.

Post by Klaus Meinhard
4NT has been renamed TCC (who knows that Win7 is a NT version?), and
you can still use it as a standalone console app, much enhanced over
4nt v5.0

And what is the new name for the 4START.BTM now? TCCSTART.BTM? Can I
also use the same ALIAS.TXT and SET.DAT?

Post by Klaus Meinhard
Then there is the free TCC / LE, which is a freeware version of the
current TCC. Youi might wish to see if you can live with the
restrictions.

No aliases? Hm...

Post by Klaus Meinhard

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
different languages

Usually automagically done by the installer, depending on the locale
of your OS.

Yes, for the single commands. But if I press F1 to see the complete
help, it's English again.

Post by Klaus Meinhard
If I am the Klaus you mean

Of course. There is no other Klaus. And no german group.

Gruß, Ralf

[Stan Brown]

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
And what is the new name for the 4START.BTM now? TCCSTART.BTM? Can I
also use the same ALIAS.TXT and SET.DAT?

TCSTART.BTM -- one "C".

Post by Ralf Brinkmann

Post by Klaus Meinhard
Then there is the free TCC / LE, which is a freeware version of the
current TCC. Youi might wish to see if you can live with the
restrictions.

No aliases? Hm...

Where did you get that idea? I said the %@alias *function* is
excluded. I didn't mention the alias *command*, and in fact it's
there.

You should really look at the list of differences:

http://jpsoft.com/help/tcc_and_tcclite.htm

[Ralf Brinkmann]

Hallo Stan!

*command*, and in fact it's there.
http://jpsoft.com/help/tcc_and_tcclite.htm

Ah, okay. Thank you, Stan!

Gruß, Ralf

[Ralf Brinkmann]

Hallo Stan!

Post by Stan Brown
TCSTART.BTM -- one "C".

Ok, I copied from my 4NT the following files and renamed them:

TCMD.INI
TCSTART.BTM
TCSTART.CMD

SET.DAT and ALIASES.TXT are still in my old 4DOS directory (for a while)
:-).

What TCC does not like in the INI file is in line 6 and 12. What about
the rest?

FileCompletion=cd:dirs hidden system cdd:dirs
CompleteHidden = Yes
UnixPaths = No
;Alias = 12656
;Environment = 4096
=> History = 1024 <=
;StackSize=9600
EditMode = Insert
CursorOver = 100
CursorIns = 10
;DescriptionMax = 511
=> UpperCase = Yes <=
AppendToDir = Yes
FuzzyCD = 3
TreePath = D:\Progs\4DOS\DATA
ANSI = Yes
;BrightBG = Yes
;HelpOptions =
;UMBLoad = Yes
;UMBEnvironment = Yes
;UMBHistory = Yes
;UMBAlias = Yes
LocalAliases = No
LocalHistory = No
;HelpPath = D:\Progs\4NT
TCStartPath = D:\Progs\TCC
DescriptionName = FILES.BBS
BatchEcho = No
NormalEditKey = F3
NormalEditKey = F7
NormalEditKey = F8
NormalEditKey = F9
NormalEditKey = F10
NormalEditKey = F12
NormalEditKey = Ctrl-Home
NormalEditKey = Ctrl-End
;Swapping = XMS, EMS, C:\TEMP, None

[ReleaseInfo]
Description=

And there is one more problem: I want to start it in fullscreen mode, it
opens for a second, then it minimizes to the taskbar. I have to click
and reopen it again. The settings in the link file are the same: Open in
a normal window (in the "Link Tab") and full screen in the options tab.

What's wrong?

Gruß, Ralf

[E. S. Fabian]

Ralf Brinkmann:

| What TCC does not like in the INI file is in line 6 and 12. What
| about the rest?
...
| => History = 1024 <=

Less than the minimum for modern versions. Mine is set to 131071. My
DirHistory is set to 32767.
...
| => UpperCase = Yes <=

Default is to utilize that all Windows file systems are "case
retentive" - file names are displayed in the case in which they are
cataloged. You must use the DIR command's /E option to force upper case.
...

| And there is one more problem: I want to start it in fullscreen
| mode, it opens for a second, then it minimizes to the taskbar. I
| have to click and reopen it again. The settings in the link file are
| the same: Open in a normal window (in the "Link Tab") and full
| screen in the options tab.
|
| What's wrong?

"Full screen" is not the same as "maximized"; only the latter is
available in the options dialog. To force full screen (i.e., 80x25 or 80x50
display, occupying the whole screen) you could use the FSTOGGLE.EXE program
from Vince Fatica; I use it for my DOS-based editor on my WinXP system.
However, for normal TCC operations I do not use "full screen". Using the
upper left corner ("system") icon, I set up the default screen size with a
smaller font than used by "full screen", allowing typically 142x57 screen
size at 1024x768 screen resolution. Vince's plugin 4console.dll allows
convenient, dynamic resizing of the TCC window and TCC buffer.

[Ralf Brinkmann]

Hallo Steve!

Post by E. S. Fabian
| => History = 1024 <=
Less than the minimum for modern versions. Mine is set to 131071. My
DirHistory is set to 32767.

Ok, I leave it empty.

Post by E. S. Fabian
| => UpperCase = Yes <=
Default is to utilize that all Windows file systems are "case
retentive" - file names are displayed in the case in which they are
cataloged. You must use the DIR command's /E option to force upper
case. ...

So I leave this empty too.

Post by E. S. Fabian
| And there is one more problem: I want to start it in fullscreen
| mode, it opens for a second, then it minimizes to the taskbar. I
| have to click and reopen it again. The settings in the link file are
| the same: Open in a normal window (in the "Link Tab") and full
| screen in the options tab.
"Full screen" is not the same as "maximized"; only the latter is
available in the options dialog.

I think you did not read properly. I left it in the second tab ("Link"
in english?) on "normal" (like in 4NT) and in the next tab ("Options")
in the upper right corner ("Display options" in english?) on Fullscreen
instead of Window. That's exactly what they offer and what I used all
the time in 4NT and 4DOS.

Post by E. S. Fabian
To force full screen (i.e., 80x25 or 80x50 display, occupying the
whole screen) you could use the FSTOGGLE.EXE program from Vince
Fatica; I use it for my DOS-based editor on my WinXP system. However,
for normal TCC operations I do not use "full screen".

But it works. First it opens in fullscreen mode, then it collapses after
a second of doing nothing to the taskbar, and when I click it there it
opens again in fullscreen mode and works properly. So there must be a
mistake somewhere.

Gruß, Ralf

[E. S. Fabian]

Ralf Brinkmann:

| Hallo Steve!
...
| But it works. First it opens in fullscreen mode, then it collapses
| after a second of doing nothing to the taskbar, and when I click it
| there it opens again in fullscreen mode and works properly. So there
| must be a mistake somewhere.

Sorry, I was actually looking at the paid version of TCC, not TCC/LE. In
fact I had just in reaction to this thread looked up that TCMD/LE is
actually a combination of the full version of TCMD and the limited edition
of TCC. In fact I queried Rex in the TCC/LE forum about the difference
between the stand-alone distribution of TCC/LE and of the TCC/LE included
with TCMD/LE, and found out that they are functionally identical, but due to
timestamp differences are not identical files.
Regardless, I never tested V12 of TCC/LE, all my comments are actually
about the full version of TCC. Personally I have no use for a GUI interface
for a text-mode program, so I never use TCMD (nor TCMD/LE, of course). OTOH
I use too many of the features of TCC that are not in the LE to go back as
long as I have legal access to it.
Finally, back to your original issue. You really need to bring this up
in the TCC/LE support forum. It's free!

[Stan Brown]

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
What TCC does not like in the INI file is in line 6 and 12. What about
the rest?

Have you looked in the help file? It's really quite extensive.

[E. S. Fabian]

Stan Brown:

| On Sat, 6 Nov 2010 16:00:56 +0100, Ralf Brinkmann wrote:
|| What TCC does not like in the INI file is in line 6 and 12. What
|| about the rest?
|
| Have you looked in the help file? It's really quite extensive.

Indeed it is, but (for reasons which I do not agree with) Rex dropped
the description of most .INI directives (all that can be set using the
OPTION dialog), so comparison of the old and new versions' help files is not
possible.

[Ralf Brinkmann]

Hallo Stan!

Post by Stan Brown
Have you looked in the help file? It's really quite extensive.

I've tried to, but it's not easy to find what I'm looking for. The old
4DOS help was better. And everything is in English.

Gruß, Ralf

[Klaus Meinhard]

Hallo Ralf,

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
I've tried to, but it's not easy to find what I'm looking for. The old
4DOS help was better. And everything is in English.

Your English isn't so bad. Join the forum, read the messages, and it
will get quickly better still.

[Ralf Brinkmann]

Hallo Klaus!

Post by Klaus Meinhard
Your English isn't so bad. Join the forum, read the messages, and it
will get quickly better still.

But why? If they offer the product in English and in German, why
shouldn't the help be in German, too?

Gruß, Ralf

[E. S. Fabian]

Ralf Brinkmann:

| *Klaus Meinhard*:

|| Your English isn't so bad. Join the forum, read the messages, and it
|| will get quickly better still.
|
| But why? If they offer the product in English and in German, why
| shouldn't the help be in German, too?

I agree, the help should be available in every language the product
itself is available. Regardless, Klaus referred to your knowledge of
English, and to the fact that the forum itself is only available in
English. Undoubtedly, if there were enough persons interested in a NG in
another language, they would create one. BTW, some of the worst English
grammar in various newsgroups and fora I read comes from those whose native
tongue is English.

[Klaus Meinhard]

Hi Ralf,

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
But why? If they offer the product in English and in German, why
shouldn't the help be in German, too?

The simple reason is that Rex found people willing to translate the
limited amount of text of the user interface, but not for the rather
hefty help (with the added burden of fornatting).

If you want to have a really german version, why not ask for a
translation of the english commands too? KOPIERE stant COPY, ENTFERNE
statt DEL, VERSCHIEBE statt MOVE, Stapelverarbeitungsdateifehlersucher
statt Batch Debugger?

[Ralf Brinkmann]

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
And there is one more problem: I want to start it in fullscreen mode, it
opens for a second, then it minimizes to the taskbar. I have to click
and reopen it again. The settings in the link file are the same: Open in
a normal window (in the "Link Tab") and full screen in the options tab.

I'm still wondering, why the programm always collapses to the taskbar.
And why it doesn't show my

PROMPT $e[s$e[1;53H$e[36;1m $D, $t$e[u$e[0m$P$G.

It shows the date and time in the upper right corner in 4DOS and 4NT,
but not in TCC. When I type SET it shows me the prompt as normal $P$G. I
use all the same INI-settings. Is there another place where the prompt
is defined? And the screen mode? It should be 80 x 25, not 80 x 50. And
why is there still an (empty) JPSOFT-folder in my personal documents and
settings folder? May TCStartPath = D:\Progs\TCC.

Gruß, Ralf

[Ralf Brinkmann]

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
I'm still wondering, why the programm always collapses to the taskbar.
And why it doesn't show my
PROMPT $e[s$e[1;53H$e[36;1m $D, $t$e[u$e[0m$P$G.
It shows the date and time in the upper right corner in 4DOS and 4NT,
but not in TCC.

Ok, this problem is solved. I used a ";" instead of a "REM" in the
TCSTART.BTM and so another prompt was opened.

But the other problem is still there. I've tried out TCC/LE now and TCC
from the full (trial) version of Take Command. To avoid mistakes from my
old 4NT I used the configuration tool from Take Command to configure TCC
properly. The result is the same: TCC collapses to the taskbar, when I
try to open it in fullscreen mode. After another RETURN it opens as
wanted and works normal.

Is there any command I can add to the TCSTART.BTM, so that the program
will reopen in fullscreen mode after collapsing? Or is here anybody who
can open TCC in fullscrenn mode at once, without cklicking it in the
taskbar first?

Gruß, Ralf

[Klaus Meinhard]

Hallo Ralf,

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
But the other problem is still there. I've tried out TCC/LE now and
TCC from the full (trial) version of Take Command. To avoid
mistakes from my old 4NT I used the configuration tool from Take
Command to configure TCC properly. The result is the same: TCC
collapses to the taskbar, when I try to open it in fullscreen mode.
After another RETURN it opens as wanted and works normal.

I can't remember (and I'm too lazy to search) what OS you are using.
In Windows Vista and 7 there is no longer a fullscreen mode. You can
maximize a TCC LE window by using OPTION (Tab Fenster). By carefully
selecting the font size (Eigenschaften when klicking on the title bar)
you can have the window (nearly) fill your screen. Take a look at your
ini file and your startup btm. Somewhere YOU tell TCC to minimize to
tray, I bet.

[Ralf Brinkmann]

Hallo Klaus!

Post by Klaus Meinhard
I can't remember (and I'm too lazy to search) what OS you are using.

Look on my signature: It's Windows XP Home SP3. :-)

Post by Klaus Meinhard
You can maximize a TCC LE window by using OPTION (Tab Fenster).

That's what I did. There are two possibilities: Window and Full Screen.
I switched on Full Screen.

Post by Klaus Meinhard
Take a look at your ini file and your startup btm. Somewhere YOU tell
TCC to minimize to tray, I bet.

It's the same I use for the old 4NT and there it works in full screen
mode. I don't know which entry should cause a behaviour like this. Do
you know a keyword?

Gruß, Ralf

[Ralf Brinkmann]

Hallo Klaus!

Post by Klaus Meinhard
Take a look at your ini file and your startup btm. Somewhere YOU tell
TCC to minimize to tray, I bet.

I did really not find something like that, but I have tried out a WINDOW
RESTORE at the end of my TCSTART.BTM now. It needs a while of thinking
about what I could have meant :-), but then the window is restored in
full size mode. Hm, strange.

Gruß, Ralf

[Klaus Meinhard]

Hi Ralf,

Post by Ralf Brinkmann
I did really not find something like that, but I have tried out a
WINDOW RESTORE at the end of my TCSTART.BTM now. It needs a while
of thinking about what I could have meant :-), but then the window
is restored in full size mode. Hm, strange.

:-)

Really strange. I can't test XP any longer, so I cannot help you
further. That's the reason you should join the official forum. With a
little (well, in reality lot's of) effort its emails look similar to a
usenet group (with a rule and a folder for each forum you join).Ther
are many more peopleable to help you, not just a few die-hards.