Benedict XVI an accomplished pianist! Papal recital suggestions?

[patter]

I saw this tidbit on one of the desperate 24 hr.cable news nets-That
Cardinal Ratszinger is an "accomplished" pianist...Okay,I'm going first
with Tom Leherer's Vatican Rag...next on the recital program?...

[Josep Vilanova]

He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.


josep









On 19/4/05 8:57 pm, in article

Post by patter
I saw this tidbit on one of the desperate 24 hr.cable news nets-That
Cardinal Ratszinger is an "accomplished" pianist...Okay,I'm going first
with Tom Leherer's Vatican Rag...next on the recital program?...

[James Kahn]

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.

Only when it was compulsory, and he was quickly excused on account
of his seminary enrollment.

[Gerrit Stolte]

Post by James Kahn

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.

Only when it was compulsory

It was never compulsory, never mandatory. It was expected and, shall we
say, at least not detrimental to your future to be a *pimpf*, but it
certainly was *not* decreed by law.

[James Kahn]

Post by Gerrit Stolte

Post by James Kahn

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.

Only when it was compulsory

It was never compulsory, never mandatory. It was expected and, shall we
say, at least not detrimental to your future to be a *pimpf*, but it
certainly was *not* decreed by law.

This from the London Times:

"Cardinal Ratzinger was born in Bavaria, the son of an anti-Nazi police
officer. Although forced to join Hitler Youth, he was not an enthusiastic
member and after a posting to Hungary during his service in the
anti-aircraft corps he deserted, risking punisment by death. He was
captured by the Allies, released and entered seminary with his brother
George...."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,20709-1576678,00.html

[Dan Koren]

Post by James Kahn

Post by Gerrit Stolte

Post by James Kahn

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.

Only when it was compulsory

It was never compulsory, never mandatory. It was expected and, shall we
say, at least not detrimental to your future to be a *pimpf*, but it
certainly was *not* decreed by law.

"Cardinal Ratzinger was born in Bavaria, the son of an anti-Nazi police
officer. Although forced to join Hitler Youth, he was not an enthusiastic
member and after a posting to Hungary during his service in the
anti-aircraft corps he deserted, risking punisment by death. He was
captured by the Allies, released and entered seminary with his brother
George...."
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,20709-1576678,00.html

And how do you/we know how accurate this is?

The fact of this story being published by a
newspaper does not authomatically make it
true.



dk

[Thomas Muething]

Post by Dan Koren
And how do you/we know how accurate this is?
The fact of this story being published by a
newspaper does not authomatically make it
true.

"In his memoirs, Ratzinger wrote that school officials enrolled him in
the Hitler Youth movement against his will when he was 14 in 1941.

Membership was compulsory and the officials enrolled his entire class,
acting on orders from the Nazi regime, Allen said. Ratzinger said he was
soon let out because of his studies for the priesthood."

CNN.com

Statements of Dan Koren are to be considered false until further
evidence suggests otherwise.

Thomas

[Dan Koren]

Post by Thomas Muething

Post by Dan Koren
And how do you/we know how accurate this is?
The fact of this story being published by a
newspaper does not authomatically make it
true.

"In his memoirs, Ratzinger wrote that school

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
---||||||||||||||


Do you consider his memoirs an independent
source of information about his life ?!?

Post by Thomas Muething
officials enrolled him in the Hitler Youth movement against his will when
he was 14 in 1941.

And how about yourself, Gauleiter?

Post by Thomas Muething
Membership was compulsory and the officials enrolled his entire class,
acting on orders from the Nazi regime, Allen said. Ratzinger said he was
soon let out because of his studies for the priesthood."

Apparently not before serving in the Wehrmacht
for a little while.

Post by Thomas Muething
CNN.com

That great pillar of truth, objectivity and
wisdom.

Post by Thomas Muething
Statements of Dan Koren are to be considered false until further evidence
suggests otherwise.

Precisely, Dear Gauleiter.

Which is the very reason I only ask questions
rather than make statements.



dk

[Gerrit Stolte]

Post by James Kahn

Post by Gerrit Stolte

Post by James Kahn

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.

Only when it was compulsory

It was never compulsory, never mandatory. It was expected and, shall we
say, at least not detrimental to your future to be a *pimpf*, but it
certainly was *not* decreed by law.

"Cardinal Ratzinger was born in Bavaria, the son of an anti-Nazi police
officer. Although forced to join Hitler Youth ..."

There's a difference between being forced and a compulsory service. That
outside pressure was involved is beyond the question and that Josep is
formally leaving the Catholic Church based on those incidents should be a
cause of jubilation for the Church, as it only proves how weak his believe
was in the first place. I don't think that any religion needs believers
like him who are a.) intellectual windbags, b.) don't have the balls to
call it quits based on a rational decision (see a.) but need a lame excuse
and try to sell it as a moral decision. Cheap, very cheap.

[Josep Vilanova]

Are in Germany all that narrow minded or is just a gift to this newsgroup?


josep

Post by Gerrit Stolte

Post by James Kahn

Post by Gerrit Stolte

Post by James Kahn

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.

Only when it was compulsory

It was never compulsory, never mandatory. It was expected and, shall we
say, at least not detrimental to your future to be a *pimpf*, but it
certainly was *not* decreed by law.

"Cardinal Ratzinger was born in Bavaria, the son of an anti-Nazi police
officer. Although forced to join Hitler Youth ..."

There's a difference between being forced and a compulsory service. That
outside pressure was involved is beyond the question and that Josep is
formally leaving the Catholic Church based on those incidents should be a
cause of jubilation for the Church, as it only proves how weak his believe
was in the first place. I don't think that any religion needs believers
like him who are a.) intellectual windbags, b.) don't have the balls to
call it quits based on a rational decision (see a.) but need a lame excuse
and try to sell it as a moral decision. Cheap, very cheap.

[Gerrit Stolte]

Post by Josep Vilanova
Are in Germany all that narrow minded or is just a gift to this newsgroup?

Well, hardly as narrow-minded as you must be, based on the evidence you
delivered with you first post, which displayed a phenomenal inability to
rationally differentiate certain events, not to speak of the obvious lack
of balls. You might reconsider calling it quits and apply for the job of
Catholic priest.

[Josep Vilanova]

Post by Gerrit Stolte

Post by Josep Vilanova
Are in Germany all that narrow minded or is just a gift to this newsgroup?

Well, hardly as narrow-minded as you must be, based on the evidence you
delivered with you first post, which displayed a phenomenal inability to
rationally differentiate certain events, not to speak of the obvious lack
of balls. You might reconsider calling it quits and apply for the job of
Catholic priest.
--
Gerrit

What you failed to see was the ironic tone of my post. I would have
never considered leaving the Catholic Church due to the past of the new
Pope. My decision would be based on the progressive shift away from the
achievements of Vatican 2 towards a more fundamentalistic view of
christian doctrine. I despise fundamentalism in all its forms and, in
the case of Ratzinger, it looks more like a running away from a world
situation that he can't quite control or possibly understand. In the
basis of my tongue-in-cheek commentary you made fairly rigid
assumptions about my intelectual and religious background (do you know
anything about my qualifications, for instance?, or about my theology
studies?) You mention some lack of courage. I have had lengthy
discussions about a possible change of church with several friends of
mine -discussions based on purely theological and moral terms- and I
never thought in sharing those more detailed reasonings with the
members of a classical music newsgroup. My accusation of
narrow-mindness was due to you having taken in face value a post that
was not intended to be taken that way. Is it that more clear now?



josep

[Gerrit Stolte]

Post by Josep Vilanova

Post by Gerrit Stolte

Post by Josep Vilanova
Are in Germany all that narrow minded or is just a gift to this

newsgroup?

Post by Gerrit Stolte
Well, hardly as narrow-minded as you must be, based on the evidence

you

Post by Gerrit Stolte
delivered with you first post, which displayed a phenomenal inability

to

Post by Gerrit Stolte
rationally differentiate certain events, not to speak of the obvious

lack

Post by Gerrit Stolte
of balls. You might reconsider calling it quits and apply for the job

of

Post by Gerrit Stolte
Catholic priest.
--
Gerrit

What you failed to see was the ironic tone of my post. I would have
never considered leaving the Catholic Church due to the past of the new
Pope. My decision would be based on the progressive shift away from the
achievements of Vatican 2 towards a more fundamentalistic view of
christian doctrine. I despise fundamentalism in all its forms and, in
the case of Ratzinger, it looks more like a running away from a world
situation that he can't quite control or possibly understand.

Ratzinger was the advisor of Kardinal Frings during Vatican 2. He changed
his opinions afterwards. What makes you think he won't adjust now that he
has become Pope?

Post by Josep Vilanova
My accusation of narrow-mindness was due to you having taken in face value a post that
was not intended to be taken that way. Is it that more clear now?

No. And and since you continued to discuss the topic of quitting the
Church, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't an ironic but a serious post. As
I said, not the balls to stick to your way.

[Josep Vilanova]

Post by Gerrit Stolte
Ratzinger was the advisor of Kardinal Frings during Vatican 2. He changed
his opinions afterwards. What makes you think he won't adjust now that he
has become Pope?

That quick option in favour or Ratzinger seems to demonstrate, another
time, that in the current goverment of the Catholic Church is more
important the defense of the Catholic identity than the actual dialogue
with today's world. Ratzinger represents an scared Church that defends
itself attacking. The worse thing of all is that two thirds of today's
cardinals share Ratzinger's pessimism. This posture, accompanied to
certain populism in countries belonging to the third world, is keeping
Catholicism away for many of the debates that worry most western
societies, like the USA and, mostly, Europe. We had to suffer the
doctrinal replacement during the second half of the XXth century a
doctrinal withdrawal from the advances (at least in my opinion) of the
Vatican II.

On Monday Ratzinger was judging, in a very pessimistic tone, the
current culture, when referring to the dictatorship of relativism. That
expression may satisfy sectors worried about the new religiosity and
the New Age movement, but that would hardly satisfy anyone worried
about the actual problems regarding the increase of fundamentalist
beliefs over the current culture of emptiness. That has nothing to do
with dicatorships or with relativisms. No, I wouldn't think that
Ratzinger is the person to go back to the Vatican II, regardless what
he did then.

Post by Gerrit Stolte

Post by Josep Vilanova
My accusation of narrow-mindness was due to you having taken in face value a post that
was not intended to be taken that way. Is it that more clear now?

No. And and since you continued to discuss the topic of quitting the
Church, it's pretty obvious that it wasn't an ironic but a serious post. As
I said, not the balls to stick to your way.

The bit about leaving the Church was serious and the bit about the
reason wasn't. Would that be more clear now?


j

[Floyd Patterson]

Gift???
I am not sure what all this has to do with recorded music???

Post by Josep Vilanova
Are in Germany all that narrow minded or is just a gift to this newsgroup?
josep

Post by Gerrit Stolte

Post by James Kahn

Post by Gerrit Stolte

Post by James Kahn

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.

Only when it was compulsory

It was never compulsory, never mandatory. It was expected and, shall we
say, at least not detrimental to your future to be a *pimpf*, but it
certainly was *not* decreed by law.

"Cardinal Ratzinger was born in Bavaria, the son of an anti-Nazi police
officer. Although forced to join Hitler Youth ..."

There's a difference between being forced and a compulsory service. That
outside pressure was involved is beyond the question and that Josep is
formally leaving the Catholic Church based on those incidents should be a
cause of jubilation for the Church, as it only proves how weak his believe
was in the first place. I don't think that any religion needs believers
like him who are a.) intellectual windbags, b.) don't have the balls to
call it quits based on a rational decision (see a.) but need a lame excuse
and try to sell it as a moral decision. Cheap, very cheap.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Floyd Patterson
Gift???
I am not sure what all this has to do with recorded music???

It remains to be seen whether the new pope will continue to sponsor Gilbert
Levine, for example.

[Brendan R. Wehrung]

Post by Matthew B. Tepper

Post by Floyd Patterson
Gift???
I am not sure what all this has to do with recorded music???

It remains to be seen whether the new pope will continue to sponsor Gilbert
Levine, for example.

Was it his choir that was being complained about by somebody?

Brendan
--

[Paul Ilechko]

Post by Gerrit Stolte
I don't think that any religion needs believers

This part was accurate

[[e-mail]]

Post by James Kahn

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.

Only when it was compulsory

It was never compulsory, never mandatory. It was expected and, shall we

say, at least not detrimental to your future to be a *pimpf*, but it
certainly was *not* decreed by law.
----------------
no-one said anything about law. something can be compulsory without
law. was there a law requiring jews to go to auschwitz? no. did they
have a choice? no.
anyway, ratzass was 14 at the time.

[Thornhill]

yes, yes... And "I was under orders." That's what they all say.

[Dan Koren]

You can always convert to Judaism....



dk

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.
On 19/4/05 8:57 pm, in article

Post by patter
I saw this tidbit on one of the desperate 24 hr.cable news nets-That
Cardinal Ratszinger is an "accomplished" pianist...Okay,I'm going first
with Tom Leherer's Vatican Rag...next on the recital program?...

[a***@aol.com]

Then you would be left with the timpanists of the Israel Philharmonic
teaching their students the timpani part in Siegfried Funeral March (as
they do for technical reasons) but then advising them that they must
not play it.

They know the part, guv. It's just that they are not allowed to play
it in public.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins
(Kletzmer was obviously cheaper in Prague than in Jerusalem/Tel Aviv
which is how we got to do it. Enjoyed it anyway)

[Richard Schultz]

In article <***@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>, ***@aol.com wrote:
: Then you would be left with the timpanists of the Israel Philharmonic
: teaching their students the timpani part in Siegfried Funeral March (as
: they do for technical reasons) but then advising them that they must
: not play it.
:
: They know the part, guv. It's just that they are not allowed to play
: it in public.

You know, your posts are much more interesting when you restrict yourself
to cases where you know what you are talking about.

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You go on playing Bach your way, and I'll go on playing him *his* way."
-- Wanda Landowska

[Josep Vilanova]

Judaism sounds like a fascinating religion but one too far away from my
background. I would be scared of doing something like that.

[graham]

Post by Josep Vilanova
Judaism sounds like a fascinating religion but one too far away from my
background. I would be scared of doing something like that.

I'm sure they would do that bit under a local anaethetic!
Graham

[Josep Vilanova]

I forgot about that!

[Dan Koren]

Post by Josep Vilanova
Judaism sounds like a fascinating religion but one too far away from my
background. I would be scared of doing something like that.

We're scared of you too! ;-)


dk

[adagher]

Post by Josep Vilanova
Don't know what religion to join though.

What kind of music do you like?

ad

[Josep Vilanova]

I love Catholic music. I grew up with it, I was a very religious child, I
have a very good Catholic education but I disagree on nearly everything the
new Pope stands for. I wonder whether they will be a Catholic-Resistance
movement I could join.




josep





On 19/4/05 9:43 pm, in article

Post by adagher

Post by Josep Vilanova
Don't know what religion to join though.

What kind of music do you like?
ad

[adagher]

Post by Josep Vilanova
I love Catholic music. I grew up with it, I was a very religious child, I
have a very good Catholic education but I disagree on nearly

everything the

Post by Josep Vilanova
new Pope stands for. I wonder whether they will be a

Catholic-Resistance

Post by Josep Vilanova
movement I could join.

There is and they have great music, in fact the greatest ever written.

ad

[Peter Lemken]

Post by adagher

Post by Josep Vilanova
I love Catholic music. I grew up with it, I was a very religious child,
I have a very good Catholic education but I disagree on nearly everything
the new Pope stands for. I wonder whether they will be a Catholic-Resistance
movement I could join.

There is and they have great music, in fact the greatest ever written.
ad

Beautiful.

Peter Lemken
Berlin

[Thomas Wood]

Post by Josep Vilanova

Post by Josep Vilanova
I love Catholic music. I grew up with it, I was a very religious

child, I

Post by Josep Vilanova
have a very good Catholic education but I disagree on nearly

everything the

Post by Josep Vilanova
new Pope stands for. I wonder whether they will be a

Catholic-Resistance

Post by Josep Vilanova
movement I could join.

There is and they have great music, in fact the greatest ever written.

Nope, that would be the Lutherans (Bach et al...)

Tom Wood

[Dan Koren]

Post by Thomas Wood

Post by Josep Vilanova

Post by Josep Vilanova
I love Catholic music. I grew up with it, I was a very religious

child, I

Post by Josep Vilanova
have a very good Catholic education but I disagree on nearly

everything the

Post by Josep Vilanova
new Pope stands for. I wonder whether they will be a

Catholic-Resistance

Post by Josep Vilanova
movement I could join.

There is and they have great music, in fact the greatest ever written.

Nope, that would be the Lutherans (Bach et al...)

Nope.

Mozart, Schubert, Chopin, Debussy and Albeniz
were Catholics.

Scriabin, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov and Prokofiev
were Orthodox.

Except for Bach, the Lutherans did not produce
much piano music that is still worth listening
to nowadays.



dk

[Sam]

Post by Dan Koren
Except for Bach, the Lutherans did not produce
much piano music that is still worth listening
to nowadays.

What was the religious heritage of Schumann and Brahms?

[Dan Koren]

Post by Sam

Post by Dan Koren
Except for Bach, the Lutherans did not produce
much piano music that is still worth listening
to nowadays.

What was the religious heritage of Schumann and
Brahms?

Probably Lutheran or Protestant.

However, the sum total of their
piano works does not add up to
Iberia ;-)



dk

[Thomas Wood]

Post by Dan Koren

Post by Thomas Wood

Post by Josep Vilanova

Post by Josep Vilanova
I love Catholic music. I grew up with it, I was a very religious

child, I

Post by Josep Vilanova
have a very good Catholic education but I disagree on nearly

everything the

Post by Josep Vilanova
new Pope stands for. I wonder whether they will be a

Catholic-Resistance

Post by Josep Vilanova
movement I could join.

There is and they have great music, in fact the greatest ever written.

Nope, that would be the Lutherans (Bach et al...)

Nope.
Mozart, Schubert, Chopin, Debussy and Albeniz
were Catholics.
Scriabin, Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninov and Prokofiev
were Orthodox.
Except for Bach, the Lutherans did not produce
much piano music that is still worth listening
to nowadays.

I was talking about church music, not piano music -- and I stand by my
choice.

But in the realm of piano music I see you conveniently overlooked Schumann
and Brahms.

Tom Wood

[Marc Perman]

Post by Josep Vilanova
I love Catholic music. I grew up with it, I was a very religious child, I
have a very good Catholic education but I disagree on nearly everything the
new Pope stands for. I wonder whether they will be a Catholic-Resistance
movement I could join.

I love the US, and I disagree with nearly everything our current president
stands for, but I'm not leaving. I think we need moderate or liberal
Catholics as badly as we need moderate Republicans.

Marc Perman

[Paul Ilechko]

Post by Marc Perman
I love the US, and I disagree with nearly everything our current president
stands for, but I'm not leaving. I think we need moderate or liberal
Catholics as badly as we need moderate Republicans.

You mean like the pope was a moderate Nazi ? No thanks, let the
Republicans move so far to the right that they can't get elected dog
catcher outside of the South. Then we can spin off Jesusland as a
separate country, and we'll all be happy.

[Owen Hartnett]

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Marc Perman
I love the US, and I disagree with nearly everything our current president
stands for, but I'm not leaving. I think we need moderate or liberal
Catholics as badly as we need moderate Republicans.

You mean like the pope was a moderate Nazi ? No thanks, let the
Republicans move so far to the right that they can't get elected dog
catcher outside of the South.

What? Was it the Republicans elected this pope?? Oh, that wascally
right wing conspiracy again!

Post by Paul Ilechko
Then we can spin off Jesusland as a
separate country, and we'll all be happy.

That was tried before...

-Owen

[Paul Ilechko]

Post by Owen Hartnett

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Marc Perman
I love the US, and I disagree with nearly everything our current president
stands for, but I'm not leaving. I think we need moderate or liberal
Catholics as badly as we need moderate Republicans.

You mean like the pope was a moderate Nazi ? No thanks, let the
Republicans move so far to the right that they can't get elected dog
catcher outside of the South.

What? Was it the Republicans elected this pope?? Oh, that wascally
right wing conspiracy again!

I see you still can't read, Owen.

[S***@gmail.com]

"No thanks, let the Republicans move so far to the right that they
can't get elected dog catcher outside of the South."

Brilliant strategy!

And it works, too, as the evolutions of the last few years within the
political specter have shown.

regards,
SG

[Paul Ilechko]

Post by S***@gmail.com
"No thanks, let the Republicans move so far to the right that they
can't get elected dog catcher outside of the South."
Brilliant strategy!
And it works, too, as the evolutions of the last few years within the
political specter have shown.

political specter ?

[Richard Schultz]

In article <***@individual.net>, Paul Ilechko <***@patmedia.net> wrote:
: ***@gmail.com wrote:

:> And it works, too, as the evolutions of the last few years within the
:> political specter have shown.
:
: political specter ?

It's been haunting Europe for about a century and a half now. Although
rumor has it that a marriange to Gene Tierney isn't too far away.

-----
Richard Schultz ***@mail.biu.ac.il
Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"You go on playing Bach your way, and I'll go on playing him *his* way."
-- Wanda Landowska

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Richard Schultz
:> And it works, too, as the evolutions of the last few years within the
:> political specter have shown.
: political specter ?
It's been haunting Europe for about a century and a half now. Although
rumor has it that a marriange to Gene Tierney isn't too far away.

Shouldn't this be cross-linked to the Bernard Herrmann thread?

[S***@gmail.com]

Post by Paul Ilechko
political specter ?

Mistake. Some mistranslation. I meant political field.

regards,
SG

[Frank Berger]

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Marc Perman
I love the US, and I disagree with nearly everything our current president
stands for, but I'm not leaving. I think we need moderate or liberal
Catholics as badly as we need moderate Republicans.

You mean like the pope was a moderate Nazi ? No thanks, let the
Republicans move so far to the right that they can't get elected dog
catcher outside of the South. Then we can spin off Jesusland as a
separate country, and we'll all be happy.

What reality do you live in? It's the Dems moving so far to the left that
THEY can't get elected dogcatcher. Haven't you noticed?

[Can Altinbay]

Post by Frank Berger
What reality do you live in? It's the Dems moving so far to the left that
THEY can't get elected dogcatcher. Haven't you noticed?

Do keep your fantasies that you learned from whichever right wing crackpot
you listen to to yourself.
The Dems move farther and farther RIGHT all the time. Any thought that they
are moving left is so ridiculous, it's not worth considering in any sane
discourse.

[Frank Berger]

Post by Can Altinbay

Post by Frank Berger
What reality do you live in? It's the Dems moving so far to the left that
THEY can't get elected dogcatcher. Haven't you noticed?

Do keep your fantasies that you learned from whichever right wing crackpot
you listen to to yourself.
The Dems move farther and farther RIGHT all the time. Any thought that they
are moving left is so ridiculous, it's not worth considering in any sane
discourse.

Each to his own sanity, I suppose. So you think the recent Republican
successes can be explained by the Dems moving to the right too slowly? Too
slowly to win elections, I mean. I'm not talking about absolute standards
of left, right and center.
The question is rhetorical, of course, since you don't consider me worthy of
your discourse.

[Can Altinbay]

Post by Frank Berger
Each to his own sanity, I suppose. So you think the recent Republican
successes can be explained by the Dems moving to the right too slowly?

Too

Post by Frank Berger
slowly to win elections, I mean. I'm not talking about absolute standards
of left, right and center.
The question is rhetorical, of course, since you don't consider me worthy of
your discourse.

No. Dems cannot win elections by moving to the right. They do this, they
lose, Reps move even further to the right.
Beginning to understand?
Probably not.

[John Harrington]

Post by Can Altinbay

Post by Frank Berger
Each to his own sanity, I suppose. So you think the recent

Republican

Post by Can Altinbay

Post by Frank Berger
successes can be explained by the Dems moving to the right too slowly?

Too

Post by Frank Berger
slowly to win elections, I mean. I'm not talking about absolute standards
of left, right and center.
The question is rhetorical, of course, since you don't consider me

worthy

Post by Can Altinbay
of

Post by Frank Berger
your discourse.

No. Dems cannot win elections by moving to the right. They do this, they
lose, Reps move even further to the right.
Beginning to understand
Probably not.

The Democrats' problem is that they try to win elections the old
fashioned way:

http://www.votefraud.org


J

[s***@lineone.net]

Post by Can Altinbay

Post by Frank Berger
What reality do you live in? It's the Dems moving so far to the left that
THEY can't get elected dogcatcher. Haven't you noticed?

Do keep your fantasies that you learned from whichever right wing crackpot
you listen to to yourself.
The Dems move farther and farther RIGHT all the time. Any thought that they
are moving left is so ridiculous, it's not worth considering in any sane
discourse.

So this is a thread about accomplishment at the piano, is it? OK, so it
must be admitted that it's supposed specifically to be about the new
Pope's said accomplishment, but it's still supposed to be about piano
playing ability in some sense, is it not? As soon as I find that a real
live dogcatcher has an alter ego as a pianist of some achievement, I
might understand something that at present eludes me about the
"progress" of this thread (or perhaps I might not). Perhaps the Vatican
now needs to employ a Rottweiler-catching keyboard coach? Far better
still (as one contributor so rightly mentioned) that they employ some
really decent singers.

How many XVIth-notes are there in Liszt's Bénédiction de Dieu are
there, anyway?...

Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

[g***@cox.net]

Post by s***@lineone.net
So this is a thread about accomplishment at the piano, is it? OK, so it
must be admitted that it's supposed specifically to be about the new
Pope's said accomplishment, but it's still supposed to be about piano
playing ability in some sense, is it not? As soon as I find that a real
live dogcatcher has an alter ego as a pianist of some achievement, I
might understand something that at present eludes me about the
"progress" of this thread (or perhaps I might not). Perhaps the Vatican
now needs to employ a Rottweiler-catching keyboard coach? Far better
still (as one contributor so rightly mentioned) that they employ some
really decent singers.
How many XVIth-notes are there in Liszt's Bénédiction de Dieu are
there, anyway?...

Only two pages (in one hand). And they are only 'decorative'. :-)

Gerrie C

[John Harrington]

Post by s***@lineone.net
Perhaps the Vatican
now needs to employ a Rottweiler-catching keyboard coach?

That might be appropriate. I learned today on NPR that the Italian
press has referred to Ratzinger half-admiringly as "God's Rottweiller".


J

[Gerrit Stolte]

Post by John Harrington

Post by s***@lineone.net
Perhaps the Vatican
now needs to employ a Rottweiler-catching keyboard coach?

That might be appropriate. I learned today on NPR that the Italian
press has referred to Ratzinger half-admiringly as "God's Rottweiller".

It wasn't the Italian press, it was the British.

[s***@lineone.net]

That was the reason for my use of the term.

Alistair

[Paul Ilechko]

Post by Marc Perman

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Marc Perman
I love the US, and I disagree with nearly everything our current

president

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Marc Perman
stands for, but I'm not leaving. I think we need moderate or liberal
Catholics as badly as we need moderate Republicans.

You mean like the pope was a moderate Nazi ? No thanks, let the
Republicans move so far to the right that they can't get elected dog
catcher outside of the South. Then we can spin off Jesusland as a
separate country, and we'll all be happy.

What reality do you live in? It's the Dems moving so far to the left that
THEY can't get elected dogcatcher. Haven't you noticed?

LOL. You are a real ham, Frank old girl. Bet they love you on radio KKK.

[Brendan R. Wehrung]

Post by Marc Perman

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Marc Perman
I love the US, and I disagree with nearly everything our current

president

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Marc Perman
stands for, but I'm not leaving. I think we need moderate or liberal
Catholics as badly as we need moderate Republicans.

You mean like the pope was a moderate Nazi ? No thanks, let the
Republicans move so far to the right that they can't get elected dog
catcher outside of the South. Then we can spin off Jesusland as a
separate country, and we'll all be happy.

What reality do you live in? It's the Dems moving so far to the left that
THEY can't get elected dogcatcher. Haven't you noticed?

Heh, all one has to do is hang around while Republicans rally around DeLay
and the party implodes in disgust. The many moderate Democrats (some of
necessity, but non-the-less centrist) will be pretty appealing them. I'm
waiting for Repubs to split into two parties, Real Republicans (the ultra
loonies) and American Moderate Conservative. It might give Libertarians
the impetus they need to replace one of them in the political limelight.

Brendan


--

[Dan Koren]

Post by Brendan R. Wehrung

Post by Marc Perman

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Marc Perman
I love the US, and I disagree with nearly everything our current

president

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Marc Perman
stands for, but I'm not leaving. I think we need moderate or liberal
Catholics as badly as we need moderate Republicans.

You mean like the pope was a moderate Nazi ? No thanks, let the
Republicans move so far to the right that they can't get elected dog
catcher outside of the South. Then we can spin off Jesusland as a
separate country, and we'll all be happy.

What reality do you live in? It's the Dems moving so far to the left that
THEY can't get elected dogcatcher. Haven't you noticed?

Heh, all one has to do is hang around while Republicans rally around DeLay
and the party implodes in disgust. The many moderate Democrats (some of
necessity, but non-the-less centrist) will be pretty appealing them. I'm
waiting for Repubs to split into two parties, Real Republicans (the ultra
loonies) and American Moderate Conservative. It might give Libertarians
the impetus they need to replace one of them in the political limelight.

And what makes you think the Republicans (or
anyone else for the matter) would be willing
to act out your fantasies? ;-)



dk

[Brendan R. Wehrung]

Post by Dan Koren

Post by Brendan R. Wehrung

Post by Marc Perman

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Marc Perman
I love the US, and I disagree with nearly everything our current

president

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Marc Perman
stands for, but I'm not leaving. I think we need moderate or liberal
Catholics as badly as we need moderate Republicans.

You mean like the pope was a moderate Nazi ? No thanks, let the
Republicans move so far to the right that they can't get elected dog
catcher outside of the South. Then we can spin off Jesusland as a
separate country, and we'll all be happy.

What reality do you live in? It's the Dems moving so far to the left that
THEY can't get elected dogcatcher. Haven't you noticed?

Heh, all one has to do is hang around while Republicans rally around DeLay
and the party implodes in disgust. The many moderate Democrats (some of
necessity, but non-the-less centrist) will be pretty appealing them. I'm
waiting for Repubs to split into two parties, Real Republicans (the ultra
loonies) and American Moderate Conservative. It might give Libertarians
the impetus they need to replace one of them in the political limelight.

And what makes you think the Republicans (or
anyone else for the matter) would be willing
to act out your fantasies? ;-)
dk

Stupid is as stupid does. As I type I'm listneing to Nightline about how
conservatives are threatening or trying to impeach judges who issue
rulings they don't like--whether they are legally correct or not.
Eventually it gets scary.

Brendan
--

[Owen Hartnett]

Post by Brendan R. Wehrung
Stupid is as stupid does. As I type I'm listneing to Nightline about how
conservatives are threatening or trying to impeach judges who issue
rulings they don't like--whether they are legally correct or not.
Eventually it gets scary.

Do you mean like liberals who refuse to appoint judges who issue
rulings they don't like--whether they are legally correct or not?

Eventually all this partisal hatred gets scary.

-Owen

[Paul Ilechko]

Post by Brendan R. Wehrung
Heh, all one has to do is hang around while Republicans rally around DeLay
and the party implodes in disgust. The many moderate Democrats (some of
necessity, but non-the-less centrist) will be pretty appealing them. I'm
waiting for Repubs to split into two parties, Real Republicans (the ultra
loonies) and American Moderate Conservative. It might give Libertarians
the impetus they need to replace one of them in the political limelight.

Actually, *real* Republicans are people like Chafee and Snowe, who are
in the heritage of Lincoln and Teddy R. and who are far closer today to
the Democrats than they are to the hard right christo-fascists and
former-dixiecrat southron racists who have usurped their party.

[Josep Vilanova]

On 19/4/05 9:43 pm, in article

Post by adagher

Post by Josep Vilanova
Don't know what religion to join though.

What kind of music do you like?
ad

Although, thinking about the music, I don't really have a choice. Look:

Option 1. I have a friend who is an Anglican vicar and I could easily join
that religion. But in the UK Anglicans seem to sing every Sunday on a TV
program called "Songs of Praise". The music is, mostly, despicable. Mostly
when they have pop-like singers trying to sound deep and putting up
constipated faces. Catholics are better at putting faces (look at Giulini,
for instance).

Option 2. I have a Calvinist friend from Wales and can ask him for
information. But, aren't Calvinists the one in that film, "Babette's Feast"?
If that is the case I would have to spend my life singing a very boring hymn
(they only seem to sing one of them in that film) and feeling guilty for
eating out.

Option 3. I could become Luteran. At least I'd have Bach's music. It's an
option to consider. But everything seems to be in German and be rather
lifeless. In a more theological view, there's no Virgin Mary and no Real
Presence, that is always something I may miss.

Option 4. I could become Orthodox. There's Virgin Mary, there's Real
Presence, but there is that music of Taverner and Paart! Even Rachmaninov's
vespers sound boring. And they don't look more liberal than Ratzinger (if
anything, they look even worse).

Hmmm... Nothing seems convincing.




josep

[Simon Smith]

Post by Josep Vilanova
Option 1. I have a friend who is an Anglican vicar and I could easily join
that religion. But in the UK Anglicans seem to sing every Sunday on a TV
program called "Songs of Praise". The music is, mostly, despicable. Mostly
when they have pop-like singers trying to sound deep and putting up
constipated faces. Catholics are better at putting faces (look at Giulini,
for instance).
Option 2. I have a Calvinist friend from Wales and can ask him for
information. But, aren't Calvinists the one in that film, "Babette's
Feast"? If that is the case I would have to spend my life singing a very
boring hymn (they only seem to sing one of them in that film) and feeling
guilty for eating out.
Option 3. I could become Luteran. At least I'd have Bach's music. It's an
option to consider. But everything seems to be in German and be rather
lifeless. In a more theological view, there's no Virgin Mary and no Real
Presence, that is always something I may miss.
Option 4. I could become Orthodox. There's Virgin Mary, there's Real
Presence, but there is that music of Taverner and Paart! Even Rachmaninov's
vespers sound boring. And they don't look more liberal than Ratzinger (if
anything, they look even worse).
Hmmm... Nothing seems convincing.

... except atheism, which is not only inherently convincing but obvious. So
here's a good opportunity to forget all about the religious nonsense (and you
can still listen to whatever music you like!)

[Ward Hardman]

Post by Simon Smith
... except atheism, which is not only inherently convincing but
obvious. So here's a good opportunity to forget all about the
religious nonsense (and you can still listen to whatever music
you like!)

Let me put in a word for pantheism... you won't miss anything that way.

(Wasn't Mahler a Jewish-Catholic-Pantheist? That combination must be
good for compositional inspiration. ;-)

--Ward Hardman

"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence, just
simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken

[Scott Kurtz]

Leonard Bernstein often advocated the notion that music could serve as a
substitute or replacement for religion. Although Jewish, he was hardly all
that traditional or confined by predetermined dogma. I must admit I find his
Kaddish Symphony a bit more convincing than his Mass, which always seemed to
me like some kind of bastardized pseudopolycultural contrivance. Having been
born a "mainline" Protestant, I have generally turned to music as a kind of
visionary liberation, an escape from the narrow confines of traditional
religion. Regardless of his intentions, I have been very attracted to the
music of Olivier Messiaen and Charles Ives because of its quasi-pagan
intensity, its utter apartness from traditional religiousity.

Post by Ward Hardman

Post by Simon Smith
... except atheism, which is not only inherently convincing but
obvious. So here's a good opportunity to forget all about the
religious nonsense (and you can still listen to whatever music
you like!)

Let me put in a word for pantheism... you won't miss anything that way.
(Wasn't Mahler a Jewish-Catholic-Pantheist? That combination must be
good for compositional inspiration. ;-)
--Ward Hardman
"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence, just
simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken

[a***@aol.com]

Post by Josep Vilanova
On 19/4/05 9:43 pm, in article

Post by adagher

Post by Josep Vilanova
Don't know what religion to join though.

What kind of music do you like?
ad

Option 1. I have a friend who is an Anglican vicar and I could easily join
that religion. But in the UK Anglicans seem to sing every Sunday on a TV
program called "Songs of Praise". The music is, mostly, despicable. Mostly
when they have pop-like singers trying to sound deep and putting up
constipated faces. Catholics are better at putting faces (look at Giulini,
for instance).
Option 2. I have a Calvinist friend from Wales and can ask him for
information. But, aren't Calvinists the one in that film, "Babette's Feast"?
If that is the case I would have to spend my life singing a very boring hymn
(they only seem to sing one of them in that film) and feeling guilty for
eating out.
Option 3. I could become Luteran. At least I'd have Bach's music. It's an
option to consider. But everything seems to be in German and be rather
lifeless. In a more theological view, there's no Virgin Mary and no Real
Presence, that is always something I may miss.
Option 4. I could become Orthodox. There's Virgin Mary, there's Real
Presence, but there is that music of Taverner and Paart! Even

Rachmaninov's

Post by Josep Vilanova
vespers sound boring. And they don't look more liberal than Ratzinger (if
anything, they look even worse).
Hmmm... Nothing seems convincing.
josep

If you want the real thing, full bells and full smells, I'd go Orthodox
if I were you.

I have and I feel a lot happier.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[Dan Koren]

Post by Josep Vilanova
On 19/4/05 9:43 pm, in article

Post by adagher

Post by Josep Vilanova
Don't know what religion to join though.

What kind of music do you like?
ad

Option 1. I have a friend who is an Anglican vicar and I could easily join
that religion. But in the UK Anglicans seem to sing every Sunday on a TV
program called "Songs of Praise". The music is, mostly, despicable. Mostly
when they have pop-like singers trying to sound deep and putting up
constipated faces. Catholics are better at putting faces (look at Giulini,
for instance).
Option 2. I have a Calvinist friend from Wales and can ask him for
information. But, aren't Calvinists the one in that film, "Babette's Feast"?
If that is the case I would have to spend my life singing a very boring hymn
(they only seem to sing one of them in that film) and feeling guilty for
eating out.
Option 3. I could become Luteran. At least I'd have Bach's music. It's an
option to consider. But everything seems to be in German and be rather
lifeless. In a more theological view, there's no Virgin Mary and no Real
Presence, that is always something I may miss.
Option 4. I could become Orthodox. There's Virgin Mary, there's Real
Presence, but there is that music of Taverner and Paart! Even
Rachmaninov's
vespers sound boring. And they don't look more liberal than Ratzinger (if
anything, they look even worse).
Hmmm... Nothing seems convincing.

Mormons?



dk

[Riccardo]

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend...

evidences please


Now I am now formally leaving the

Post by Josep Vilanova
Catholic Church.

If some "progressist" Cardinal was elected Pope I was ready to join Orthodox
Church ; just a friendly suggestion -> http://www.oca.org/

greetings,
R.

[Riccardo]

Post by Riccardo

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend...

evidences please

from -> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/567037.html


Israeli figures play down pope's past
Efraim Zuroff, a Nazi hunter and director of the Israel office of the Simon
Wiesenthal Center, is willing to give Ratzinger the benefit of the doubt.

"Membership in the Hitler Youth doesn't disqualify someone from being pope,"
Zuroff said. "If he had committed war crimes, the situation would be
completely different. The issue is his record afterward, and he was never
involved in any war crimes as far as we know."

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Riccardo

Post by Riccardo

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend...

evidences please

from -> http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/567037.html
Israeli figures play down pope's past
Efraim Zuroff, a Nazi hunter and director of the Israel office of the
Simon Wiesenthal Center, is willing to give Ratzinger the benefit of the
doubt.
"Membership in the Hitler Youth doesn't disqualify someone from being
pope," Zuroff said. "If he had committed war crimes, the situation would
be completely different. The issue is his record afterward, and he was
never involved in any war crimes as far as we know."

I give a lot of weight to what Effie says. Really.

[[e-mail]]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/s­pages/567037.html

that article is inaccurate. it claims JPII was the first pope to visit
a synagogue. pretty dumb thing to say. peter never visited a synagogue?

[Sam]

Post by ***@sciences.sdsu.edu

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/s­pages/567037.html

that article is inaccurate. it claims JPII was the first pope to visit
a synagogue. pretty dumb thing to say. peter never visited a synagogue?

The hard evidence that Peter ever functioned as "pope" amounts to
nothing. It is not clear that he even agreed with Paul's idea of
bringing gentiles into the church.

[[e-mail]]

Post by ***@sciences.sdsu.edu
that article is inaccurate. it claims JPII was the first pope to visit
a synagogue. pretty dumb thing to say. peter never visited a

synagogue?

The hard evidence that Peter ever functioned as "pope" amounts to
nothing. It is not clear that he even agreed with Paul's idea of
bringing gentiles into the church.
----------
so what? are you saying the list of popes should start later? when? so
benedict is not no265? that's really not relevant. and even if you
disqualify peter (the church would disagree), do you count his
successor? is it not likely he may have gone to a synagogue?
really, the writer in haaretz meant the first modern pope, or the first
pope on record as having visited a synagogue. the writer was being
lazy, like the writer who speculated about Arinze becoming the first
black pope, not realizing there had been 3 or 4 before.

[Paul Ilechko]

Post by Sam

Post by ***@sciences.sdsu.edu

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/s­pages/567037.html

that article is inaccurate. it claims JPII was the first pope to visit
a synagogue. pretty dumb thing to say. peter never visited a synagogue?

The hard evidence that Peter ever functioned as "pope" amounts to
nothing. It is not clear that he even agreed with Paul's idea of
bringing gentiles into the church.

But what did Mary think ?

[Wayne Reimer]

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Sam

Post by ***@sciences.sdsu.edu

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/s­pages/567037.html

that article is inaccurate. it claims JPII was the first pope to visit
a synagogue. pretty dumb thing to say. peter never visited a synagogue?

The hard evidence that Peter ever functioned as "pope" amounts to
nothing. It is not clear that he even agreed with Paul's idea of
bringing gentiles into the church.

But what did Mary think ?

Mary? Allowed to think? Shocking!!

wr

[graham]

Post by Wayne Reimer

Post by Paul Ilechko

Post by Sam

Post by ***@sciences.sdsu.edu

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/s­pages/567037.html

that article is inaccurate. it claims JPII was the first pope to visit
a synagogue. pretty dumb thing to say. peter never visited a synagogue?

The hard evidence that Peter ever functioned as "pope" amounts to
nothing. It is not clear that he even agreed with Paul's idea of
bringing gentiles into the church.

But what did Mary think ?

Mary? Allowed to think? Shocking!!

I think she was quite a contrarian!
Graham

[[e-mail]]

hey wayne,

The author of this message requested that it not be archived. This
message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Apr 28, 5:02 pm).

how do you do that?

[Wayne Reimer]

Post by ***@sciences.sdsu.edu
hey wayne,
The author of this message requested that it not be archived. This
message will be removed from Groups in 6 days (Apr 28, 5:02 pm).
how do you do that?

You bribe Google backoffice staff.

wr

[Ward Hardman]

Post by Riccardo
If some "progressist" Cardinal was elected Pope I was ready
to join Orthodox Church [snip]

Forget it! Their sculpture is totally lacking... they have
perspectiveless "ikons" instead. It was lucky that Michelangelo and
Bernini weren't born in Constantinople. ;-)

If it's Russian Orthodox you were thinking about, forget it even more.
They are so far out on their calendar they celebrate Easter about two
weeks late (and maybe Christmas too).

--Ward Hardman

"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence, just
simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken

[a***@aol.com]

Post by Ward Hardman

Post by Riccardo
If some "progressist" Cardinal was elected Pope I was ready
to join Orthodox Church [snip]

Forget it! Their sculpture is totally lacking... they have
perspectiveless "ikons" instead. It was lucky that Michelangelo and
Bernini weren't born in Constantinople. ;-)
If it's Russian Orthodox you were thinking about, forget it even more.
They are so far out on their calendar they celebrate Easter about two
weeks late (and maybe Christmas too).

Probably all true but they have far and away the best music.

Kind regards,
Alan M. Watkins

[Scott Kurtz]

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.
josep
On 19/4/05 8:57 pm, in article

Post by patter
I saw this tidbit on one of the desperate 24 hr.cable news nets-That
Cardinal Ratszinger is an "accomplished" pianist...Okay,I'm going first
with Tom Leherer's Vatican Rag...next on the recital program?...

Leave organized religion behind. Become a surrealist. Blossom into the
Reality of Dreams. Of free association.

[Raymond Hall]

Post by Scott Kurtz
Leave organized religion behind. Become a surrealist. Blossom into the
Reality of Dreams. Of free association.

I believe in DOGmatism. It is what is/has been practised here, in this NG,
and all other places of discussion, every hour, every day, for zillions of
moons.

CATholicism simply isn't DOGmatic enough.

Ray H
Taree

[Paul Ilechko]

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.

You really don't need a religion. Just a waste of time, really.

[Wayne Reimer]

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.

Why must you join one? Free-lancing is far more interesting and far less
entangling.

wr

[Brendan R. Wehrung]

Post by Wayne Reimer

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.

Why must you join one? Free-lancing is far more interesting and far less
entangling.
wr

I had a friend who dropped from the Catholic Church (he's gay, so perhaps
understandable), wrote about his affilaition with the Goddess for several
years and is now a lay preacher at a Unitarian church. The common thread
is God, not the manner of worship.

Brendan
--

[Wayne Reimer]

Post by Brendan R. Wehrung

Post by Wayne Reimer

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.

Why must you join one? Free-lancing is far more interesting and far less
entangling.
wr

I had a friend who dropped from the Catholic Church (he's gay, so perhaps
understandable), wrote about his affilaition with the Goddess for several
years and is now a lay preacher at a Unitarian church. The common thread
is God, not the manner of worship.

To me, the common thread looks like social organizations.

wr

[Brendan R. Wehrung]

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.
josep

Bush want's to make me, and every American, card-carrying citizens (no
choice in the matter). Should I emigrate? He's written of his
involuntary enrolement, when he was a teen. It's a non-issue.

Brendan




--

[Thomas Muething]

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.
josep

Idioticism.

Though, apparently, you are already an informal member of that faith.

Thomas

[Josep Vilanova]

Post by Thomas Muething

Post by Josep Vilanova
He was also a former Hitler-Jugend... Now I am now formally leaving the
Catholic Church. Don't know what religion to join though.
josep

Idioticism.
Though, apparently, you are already an informal member of that faith.
Thomas

Are you always that charming or are your hemorrhoids giving you a hard
time?


josep

[pavane]

Post by patter
I saw this tidbit on one of the desperate 24 hr.cable news nets-That
Cardinal Ratszinger is an "accomplished" pianist...Okay,I'm going first
with Tom Leherer's Vatican Rag...next on the recital program?...

A nice spirited accompaniment to Ayatollah Khamenei singing
the Kol Nidre would be quite pleasant.

pavane

[sidoze]

Liszt's Grand Galop Chromatique

[Scott Kurtz]

Post by patter
I saw this tidbit on one of the desperate 24 hr.cable news nets-That
Cardinal Ratszinger is an "accomplished" pianist...Okay,I'm going first
with Tom Leherer's Vatican Rag...next on the recital program?...

I suggest Kaikhosru Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum. That way he would
have to spend all his time negotiating and learning the complexities of the
music and would not have time left to promulgate his conservative doctrines.

[s***@lineone.net]

Post by Scott Kurtz

Post by patter
I saw this tidbit on one of the desperate 24 hr.cable news

nets-That

Post by Scott Kurtz

Post by patter
Cardinal Ratszinger is an "accomplished" pianist...Okay,I'm going first
with Tom Leherer's Vatican Rag...next on the recital program?...

I suggest Kaikhosru Sorabji's Opus Clavicembalisticum. That way he would
have to spend all his time negotiating and learning the complexities of the
music and would not have time left to promulgate his conservative doctrines.

...unless, of course, he is a VERY accomplished pianist indeed. But
would you suggest it to HIM?

Anyway, should one perhaps have cause for concern that certain people
in high places (Ms Rice and Mr Barak have already been mentioned by
other contributors to this thread) including (in UK) a Conservative
ex-prime minister and a more recent Conservative Party ex-leader and
who have leanings in various degrees toward keyboard playing just
happen to be of the right-wing variety?

In all seriousness, however, I think it safer to leave the new Pope to
Pontifficate and leave Opus Clavicembalisticum to Jonathan Powell...

Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The SOrabji Archive

[Ward Hardman]

I'd enjoy hearing a duet performance of Brahms' "Hungarian Dances,"
with Benedict and Condoleeza Rice. ;-)

By the way, why do people complain about how the Catholics choose their
leadership? Why do the Catholics have to apologize for not conforming
to what non-Catholics demand they do and be? Perhaps they should just
say it's "tradition" and leave it at that.

I must admit though, that I'm pissed off that they no longer use the
Latin Mass, so we can't expect any more great "Missa Solemnis" opuses
to be composed. :-(

--Ward Hardman

"The older I get, the more I admire and crave competence, just
simple competence, in any field from adultery to zoology."
- H.L. Mencken

[g***@cox.net]

Post by Ward Hardman
I'd enjoy hearing a duet performance of Brahms' "Hungarian Dances,"
with Benedict and Condoleeza Rice. ;-)

Or maybe a two-piano arrangement of "I did it my way" with former
Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak (another reputed accomplished
pianist)? :-)

Post by Ward Hardman
By the way, why do people complain about how the Catholics choose their
leadership? Why do the Catholics have to apologize for not

conforming

Post by Ward Hardman
to what non-Catholics demand they do and be? Perhaps they should just
say it's "tradition" and leave it at that.
I must admit though, that I'm pissed off that they no longer use the
Latin Mass, so we can't expect any more great "Missa Solemnis" opuses
to be composed. :-(

I could settle for that if they could hire a GOOD choir for St. Peters.
The music/singing at any mass or other observance at this most
august/artistic of all (catholic) religious sites is appalling. It
seems to me that most at fault (in addition to the Kapellmeister and
the *choice* of music)is the boys choir (singing the soprano & alto
parts). I've heard some excellent boys choirs but the one at the
Vatican ain't one of them.

But I guess if women can't be priests, they can't sing either.

Gerrie C

[Brendan R. Wehrung]

Post by Ward Hardman
I'd enjoy hearing a duet performance of Brahms' "Hungarian Dances,"
with Benedict and Condoleeza Rice. ;-)
By the way, why do people complain about how the Catholics choose their
leadership? Why do the Catholics have to apologize for not conforming
to what non-Catholics demand they do and be? Perhaps they should just
say it's "tradition" and leave it at that.
I must admit though, that I'm pissed off that they no longer use the
Latin Mass, so we can't expect any more great "Missa Solemnis" opuses
to be composed. :-(
--Ward Hardman

There are Latin Masses in the Detroit area, complete with organ and chorus
(and on holy days, one church employs an orchestra). The commisison to
write the Missa might bea problem, given current finance, however. Want
to donate?

Brendan
--

[graham]

Post by patter
I saw this tidbit on one of the desperate 24 hr.cable news nets-That
Cardinal Ratszinger is an "accomplished" pianist...Okay,I'm going first
with Tom Leherer's Vatican Rag...next on the recital program?...

Psalm enchanted evening.

[Brendan R. Wehrung]

Post by patter
I saw this tidbit on one of the desperate 24 hr.cable news nets-That
Cardinal Ratszinger is an "accomplished" pianist...Okay,I'm going first
with Tom Leherer's Vatican Rag...next on the recital program?...

I'm waiting for Condi Rice to pay a courtesy visit and he suggests that
they play duets. Can't wait to see her following his lead on Iraq
(assuming he continues his predcessor's stand).

Brendan
--

[Dan Koren]

Post by patter
I saw this tidbit on one of the desperate 24 hr.cable news nets-That
Cardinal Ratszinger is an "accomplished" pianist...Okay,I'm going first
with Tom Leherer's Vatican Rag...next on the recital program?...

Obviously, Liszt's Benediction de Dieu dans la Solitude ;-)


dk

[adagher]

Not Ronda alla Turca, that's for sure:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1464758,00.html