OT: Another rant

[Jenny M Benson]

I don't usually watch TV in the mornings (not good for my blood
pressure) but my sis was staying with me and put BBC 1 on and there was
some consumer-type programme which really had me shouting = and not JUST
because it apparently required 3 presenters, including the presumably
very highly paid Angela Ripoff and Glorious Honeybun. People
complaining that they were obliged to PAY to receive paper bills because
they couldn't or wouldn't pay online.

I'm now thinking of contacting the programme myself because I have a
complaint which I think ought to be addressed. For many years my flat
was not equipped with a shower; now it does have a shower but I prefer
and choose to take baths. This means I am charged for using more water.
It's not fair. Why should I have to pay for more water because I
don't want to take the option of having a shower?

And another thing: I choose to pay my fuel bill in full on receipt of
the bill rather than by monthly DD in advance. This means I don't get a
discount for paying monthly. Why should I have to pay extra because my
choice is less convenient and more costly for the company involved?

[Mike]

Post by Jenny M Benson
I don't usually watch TV in the mornings (not good for my blood
pressure) but my sis was staying with me and put BBC 1 on and there was
some consumer-type programme which really had me shouting = and not JUST
because it apparently required 3 presenters, including the presumably
very highly paid Angela Ripoff and Glorious Honeybun. People
complaining that they were obliged to PAY to receive paper bills because
they couldn't or wouldn't pay online.
I'm now thinking of contacting the programme myself because I have a
complaint which I think ought to be addressed. For many years my flat
was not equipped with a shower; now it does have a shower but I prefer
and choose to take baths. This means I am charged for using more water.
It's not fair. Why should I have to pay for more water because I
don't want to take the option of having a shower?
And another thing: I choose to pay my fuel bill in full on receipt of
the bill rather than by monthly DD in advance. This means I don't get a
discount for paying monthly. Why should I have to pay extra because my
choice is less convenient and more costly for the company involved?

No, no, no - the companies will tell you that paying when due is ‘value for
money’ and that if you pay in advance, they will even give you a discount
allowing you to save even more! Using your money instead of borrowing funds
is preferable to businesses as far as they are concerned. By the way, the
programme to which you refer is, I think, ‘Rip-Off Britain’.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Mike

Post by Jenny M Benson
I don't usually watch TV in the mornings (not good for my blood
pressure) but my sis was staying with me and put BBC 1 on and there was
some consumer-type programme which really had me shouting = and not JUST
because it apparently required 3 presenters, including the presumably
very highly paid Angela Ripoff and Glorious Honeybun. People
complaining that they were obliged to PAY to receive paper bills because
they couldn't or wouldn't pay online.

Although I do like paper bills, I certainly accept that I might have to
pay more for them. (How do they handle people who don't _have_ an
electronic address [email or fobile]? There must still be such people
...)

Post by Mike

Post by Jenny M Benson
I'm now thinking of contacting the programme myself because I have a
complaint which I think ought to be addressed. For many years my flat
was not equipped with a shower; now it does have a shower but I prefer
and choose to take baths. This means I am charged for using more water.
It's not fair. Why should I have to pay for more water because I
don't want to take the option of having a shower?
And another thing: I choose to pay my fuel bill in full on receipt of
the bill rather than by monthly DD in advance. This means I don't get a

That's what I do too.

Post by Mike

Post by Jenny M Benson
discount for paying monthly. Why should I have to pay extra because my
choice is less convenient and more costly for the company involved?

I did actually get covered on this subject (I'm surprised it's still
there -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-15802862/energy-firms-charge-too-much-fo
r-non-direct-debit - as it was 2011!), but got edited into appearing to
be a dinosaur who wanted to pay cash (I pay online, the day I receive
the bill). I would even concede that it might genuinely cost less by DD
- but nowhere near enough less as the amount extra they charge for
non-DD (that item says 185 pounds a year).

Post by Mike
No, no, no - the companies will tell you that paying when due is ‘value for
money’ and that if you pay in advance, they will even give you a discount
allowing you to save even more! Using your money instead of borrowing funds
is preferable to businesses as far as they are concerned. By the way, the
programme to which you refer is, I think, ‘Rip-Off Britain’.

Yes, sort of does what Watchdog used to (though I think that's still
going too, intermittently). Far from perfect, and tends to side with the
stupid a little too often (or at least be too one-sided), but I'm glad
for any scrap of consumer prog. we can get.

[Chris J Dixon]

No, no, no - the companies will tell you that paying when due is ‘value for
money’ and that if you pay in advance, they will even give you a discount
allowing you to save even more! Using your money instead of borrowing funds
is preferable to businesses as far as they are concerned.

I was pleased to find that my supplier, Tonik, pays me 3%
interest whenever my account has a positive balance, which is
more than most savings accounts right now. I wonder what would
happen if I massively overpaid?

Chris

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by Mike
No, no, no - the companies will tell you that paying when due is ‘value for
money’ and that if you pay in advance, they will even give you a discount
allowing you to save even more! Using your money instead of borrowing funds
is preferable to businesses as far as they are concerned.

I was pleased to find that my supplier, Tonik, pays me 3%
interest whenever my account has a positive balance, which is
more than most savings accounts right now. I wonder what would
happen if I massively overpaid?

Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase? In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?) it
sounds like the best investment available.
I wonder if Moneysupermarket (or whatever) have looked into it?

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by Mike
No, no, no - the companies will tell you that paying when due is ‘value for
money’ and that if you pay in advance, they will even give you a discount
allowing you to save even more! Using your money instead of borrowing funds
is preferable to businesses as far as they are concerned.

I was pleased to find that my supplier, Tonik, pays me 3%
interest whenever my account has a positive balance, which is
more than most savings accounts right now. I wonder what would
happen if I massively overpaid?

Yes, that's not a bad rate; the only thing that beats it by much is the
"regular saver" type accounts, but they're only their rated rate (5 to
6%) if used as a saving from actual income - if just transferred from
another account they're about half their nominal. And they're limited as
to how much you can put in.

Post by Sam Plusnet
Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase? In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?) it
sounds like the best investment available.

I just got Ts and Cs for my BBC appearance, and small print definitely
lives!

Post by Sam Plusnet
I wonder if Moneysupermarket (or whatever) have looked into it?

I'm guessing you pay by DD, in which case it's highly likely _they_ set
the amount. If not, then you've nothing to lose by trying! (Maybe not a
large enough amount for them to notice to start with, but keep slipping
it up ...)

[Chris J Dixon]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Yes, that's not a bad rate; the only thing that beats it by much is the
"regular saver" type accounts, but they're only their rated rate (5 to
6%) if used as a saving from actual income - if just transferred from
another account they're about half their nominal. And they're limited as
to how much you can put in.

Yes, I have such an account with FD. I'm not quite sure about
your maths. I think what you mean is that if the annual limit is
£3,600, your interest will not be 5% of that, since it is only
paid on the amount in the account each month.

Where the money is coming from is pretty irrelevant, apart from
the consideration of what it could otherwise be earning.

Chris

[BrritSki]

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Yes, that's not a bad rate; the only thing that beats it by much is the
"regular saver" type accounts, but they're only their rated rate (5 to
6%) if used as a saving from actual income - if just transferred from
another account they're about half their nominal. And they're limited as
to how much you can put in.

Yes, I have such an account with FD. I'm not quite sure about
your maths. I think what you mean is that if the annual limit is
£3,600, your interest will not be 5% of that, since it is only
paid on the amount in the account each month.
Where the money is coming from is pretty irrelevant

YARichardTiceAICM5visits from the Electoral Commission

[Penny]

On Wed, 22 May 2019 08:03:04 +0100, Chris J Dixon <***@cdixon.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Yes, that's not a bad rate; the only thing that beats it by much is the
"regular saver" type accounts, but they're only their rated rate (5 to
6%) if used as a saving from actual income - if just transferred from
another account they're about half their nominal. And they're limited as
to how much you can put in.

Yes, I have such an account with FD. I'm not quite sure about
your maths. I think what you mean is that if the annual limit is
£3,600, your interest will not be 5% of that, since it is only
paid on the amount in the account each month.
Where the money is coming from is pretty irrelevant, apart from
the consideration of what it could otherwise be earning.

Yes, interest rates quoted on regular saver accounts are a con. I had an
annoying conversation with someone from my bank about it only last week.
You can't put more than the stated amount in each month and at the end of
the year they shift the total 'saved' back into your current account.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Yes, that's not a bad rate; the only thing that beats it by much is the
"regular saver" type accounts, but they're only their rated rate (5 to
6%) if used as a saving from actual income - if just transferred from
another account they're about half their nominal. And they're limited as
to how much you can put in.

Yes, I have such an account with FD. I'm not quite sure about

(Me too. I must be on at least my third one.)

Post by Penny

Post by Chris J Dixon
your maths. I think what you mean is that if the annual limit is
£3,600, your interest will not be 5% of that, since it is only
paid on the amount in the account each month.
Where the money is coming from is pretty irrelevant, apart from
the consideration of what it could otherwise be earning.

That's exactly my point. If it's money you don't actually _have_ until
you are in a position to transfer the amount - such as, it comes out of
your salary, then you get the full benefit. If you're just transferring
it from somewhere you've already got it, then you _might_ be able to do
better elsewhere - if you're willing to put in the time looking for it
and taking the risk. (I'm not [on either matter], which is why I have
the RS, as, even with the [I think] only about half claimed rate, it's
about the best you can get without slog.)

Post by Penny
Yes, interest rates quoted on regular saver accounts are a con. I had an

I wouldn't go _that_ far: for someone saving from their salary, which I
think is what they were intended for, they _do_ get the quoted rate.
They are certainly misleading if you start the year already having the
money.

Post by Penny
annoying conversation with someone from my bank about it only last week.
You can't put more than the stated amount in each month and at the end of
the year they shift the total 'saved' back into your current account.

Or a "saving" account with a minuscule rate.

[steveski]

On Tue, 21 May 2019 23:01:24 +0100, Sam Plusnet wrote:

[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase? In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?)

Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by steveski
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase? In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?)

Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

This Loading Image...,
Loading Image... is my default telephone, and still
works fine. (I do have to keep a modern one to hand because "dial 1 for
..." systems don't work with pulse dialling.) I feel its audio is
better. (Mum bought it as a novelty gift for me - it's very heavy,
ex-Canadian I think - but when I found it worked, I started to use it!)

I don't have a "candlestick" one, from which I think we get the "hanging
up" expression, but I think they'd still work too, at least ones with a
dial. (Even ones without, you can still "bang out" a number on the rest,
but with today's long numbers, you're more likely to make an error.)

[Vicky Ayech]

On Wed, 22 May 2019 03:16:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by steveski
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase? In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?)

Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

This http://255soft.uk/temp/20181027.jpg,
http://255soft.uk/temp/20190123.jpg is my default telephone, and still
works fine. (I do have to keep a modern one to hand because "dial 1 for
..." systems don't work with pulse dialling.) I feel its audio is
better. (Mum bought it as a novelty gift for me - it's very heavy,
ex-Canadian I think - but when I found it worked, I started to use it!)
I don't have a "candlestick" one, from which I think we get the "hanging
up" expression, but I think they'd still work too, at least ones with a
dial. (Even ones without, you can still "bang out" a number on the rest,
but with today's long numbers, you're more likely to make an error.)

My mum's last phone, last seen about 1996, was an older style than
that. Black bakerlite and a skinny waisted lower part
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123720574940?chn=ps this I think

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 22 May 2019 03:16:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by steveski
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase? In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?)

Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

This http://255soft.uk/temp/20181027.jpg,
http://255soft.uk/temp/20190123.jpg is my default telephone, and still
works fine. (I do have to keep a modern one to hand because "dial 1 for
..." systems don't work with pulse dialling.) I feel its audio is
better. (Mum bought it as a novelty gift for me - it's very heavy,
ex-Canadian I think - but when I found it worked, I started to use it!)
I don't have a "candlestick" one, from which I think we get the "hanging
up" expression, but I think they'd still work too, at least ones with a
dial. (Even ones without, you can still "bang out" a number on the rest,
but with today's long numbers, you're more likely to make an error.)

My mum's last phone, last seen about 1996, was an older style than
that. Black bakerlite and a skinny waisted lower part
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123720574940?chn=ps this I think

Complete with that little drawer at the bottom which held a single small
sheet of card on which _all_ your telephone numbers could be written.

[Fenny]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 22 May 2019 03:16:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by steveski
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase? In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?)

Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

This http://255soft.uk/temp/20181027.jpg,
http://255soft.uk/temp/20190123.jpg is my default telephone, and still
works fine. (I do have to keep a modern one to hand because "dial 1 for
..." systems don't work with pulse dialling.) I feel its audio is
better. (Mum bought it as a novelty gift for me - it's very heavy,
ex-Canadian I think - but when I found it worked, I started to use it!)
I don't have a "candlestick" one, from which I think we get the "hanging
up" expression, but I think they'd still work too, at least ones with a
dial. (Even ones without, you can still "bang out" a number on the rest,
but with today's long numbers, you're more likely to make an error.)

My mum's last phone, last seen about 1996, was an older style than
that. Black bakerlite and a skinny waisted lower part
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123720574940?chn=ps this I think

Complete with that little drawer at the bottom which held a single small
sheet of card on which _all_ your telephone numbers could be written.

I don't remember when we got rid of ours, but it was well after we got
our first colour telly in 1985. We did eventually have an extension
put in on the second floor (loft extension) so that Ma could use the
modem sent by the OU to dial up the university mainframe for one of
her courses. It was far more convenient than her having to go in to
the computer labs.

[Sally Thompson]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 22 May 2019 03:16:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by steveski
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase? In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?)

Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

This http://255soft.uk/temp/20181027.jpg,
http://255soft.uk/temp/20190123.jpg is my default telephone, and still
works fine. (I do have to keep a modern one to hand because "dial 1 for
..." systems don't work with pulse dialling.) I feel its audio is
better. (Mum bought it as a novelty gift for me - it's very heavy,
ex-Canadian I think - but when I found it worked, I started to use it!)
I don't have a "candlestick" one, from which I think we get the "hanging
up" expression, but I think they'd still work too, at least ones with a
dial. (Even ones without, you can still "bang out" a number on the rest,
but with today's long numbers, you're more likely to make an error.)

My mum's last phone, last seen about 1996, was an older style than
that. Black bakerlite and a skinny waisted lower part
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123720574940?chn=ps this I think

Complete with that little drawer at the bottom which held a single small
sheet of card on which _all_ your telephone numbers could be written.

Oh, that brings back memories!!

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Sally Thompson

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Vicky Ayech
My mum's last phone, last seen about 1996, was an older style than
that. Black bakerlite and a skinny waisted lower part
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123720574940?chn=ps this I think

Complete with that little drawer at the bottom which held a single small
sheet of card on which _all_ your telephone numbers could be written.

Oh, that brings back memories!!

My parents didn't have a phone installed until some time after I left
home, but our neighbours had one of the early bakerlite[1] phones and it
was mysterious device which greatly fascinated the young lad from next door.

[1] lite?!? Surely one of the twentieth century's greatest misnomers?

[Chris J Dixon]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Complete with that little drawer at the bottom which held a single small
sheet of card on which _all_ your telephone numbers could be written.

At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Chris

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by Chris J Dixon
At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Oh, I know LOTS of telephone numbers: my Grannie's was Birkenhead 117,
later Claughton 5117, my best friend's was Mountwood 1378, Dad's
business was Central 6517 ...

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Chris J Dixon
At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Oh, I know LOTS of telephone numbers: my Grannie's was Birkenhead 117,
later Claughton 5117, my best friend's was Mountwood 1378, Dad's
business was Central 6517 ...

Ours was Eaglescliffe 2201. (And IIRR my mum "shopped online" -
certainly had deliveries.)

There was one tiny exchange - somewhere on the north coast of Scotland I
think - that still had single-digit numbers, well into the STD era. I
remember reading that the locals (thinking about it, there must have
been no more than ten of them, probably fewer) latterly had difficulty
convincing people.

[Mike]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Chris J Dixon
At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Oh, I know LOTS of telephone numbers: my Grannie's was Birkenhead 117,
later Claughton 5117, my best friend's was Mountwood 1378, Dad's
business was Central 6517 ...

Ours was Eaglescliffe 2201. (And IIRR my mum "shopped online" -
certainly had deliveries.)
There was one tiny exchange - somewhere on the north coast of Scotland I
think - that still had single-digit numbers, well into the STD era. I
remember reading that the locals (thinking about it, there must have
been no more than ten of them, probably fewer) latterly had difficulty
convincing people.

Well, I think the fewer cases of STD’s there are, the better!;-)

[Nick Odell]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Chris J Dixon
At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Oh, I know LOTS of telephone numbers: my Grannie's was Birkenhead 117,
later Claughton 5117, my best friend's was Mountwood 1378, Dad's
business was Central 6517 ...

Ours was Eaglescliffe 2201. (And IIRR my mum "shopped online" -
certainly had deliveries.)
There was one tiny exchange - somewhere on the north coast of Scotland I
think - that still had single-digit numbers, well into the STD era. I
remember reading that the locals (thinking about it, there must have
been no more than ten of them, probably fewer) latterly had difficulty
convincing people.

Our first, shared, line was Hockley 405. It later became an exclusive
line and changed to Hockley 3405. Later still it became 0702 663405 on
the Southend on Sea exchange and we were still at that address when it
became 01702 663405.

Nick

[Mike]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Chris J Dixon
At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Oh, I know LOTS of telephone numbers: my Grannie's was Birkenhead 117,
later Claughton 5117, my best friend's was Mountwood 1378, Dad's
business was Central 6517 ...

Ours was Eaglescliffe 2201. (And IIRR my mum "shopped online" -
certainly had deliveries.)
There was one tiny exchange - somewhere on the north coast of Scotland I
think - that still had single-digit numbers, well into the STD era. I
remember reading that the locals (thinking about it, there must have
been no more than ten of them, probably fewer) latterly had difficulty
convincing people.

Our first, shared, line was Hockley 405. It later became an exclusive
line and changed to Hockley 3405. Later still it became 0702 663405 on
the Southend on Sea exchange and we were still at that address when it
became 01702 663405.
Nick

‘They don’t write numbers like that anymore!’

[Chris McMillan]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Chris J Dixon
At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Oh, I know LOTS of telephone numbers: my Grannie's was Birkenhead 117,
later Claughton 5117, my best friend's was Mountwood 1378, Dad's
business was Central 6517 ...

Ours was Eaglescliffe 2201. (And IIRR my mum "shopped online" -
certainly had deliveries.)
There was one tiny exchange - somewhere on the north coast of Scotland I
think - that still had single-digit numbers, well into the STD era. I
remember reading that the locals (thinking about it, there must have
been no more than ten of them, probably fewer) latterly had difficulty
convincing people.

Somewhere like Isle of Lewis where house number plus place plus island plus
postcode is still perfectly correct to my surprise.

Sincerely Chris

[Penny]

On Thu, 23 May 2019 12:31:26 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Chris J Dixon
At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Oh, I know LOTS of telephone numbers: my Grannie's was Birkenhead 117,
later Claughton 5117, my best friend's was Mountwood 1378, Dad's
business was Central 6517 ...

Ours was Eaglescliffe 2201. (And IIRR my mum "shopped online" -
certainly had deliveries.)
There was one tiny exchange - somewhere on the north coast of Scotland I
think - that still had single-digit numbers, well into the STD era. I
remember reading that the locals (thinking about it, there must have
been no more than ten of them, probably fewer) latterly had difficulty
convincing people.

When we had a four figure number (which I won't reveal here - useful
passwords, these numbers you've remembered for 60 years) our Isle of Wight
cousins number was Sandown 69 (it was years before I understood why that
made people laugh). The Sandown number grew, one or two figures at a time
until it became a Portsmouth all-figure number which bore no relation to
the original.

[Mike]

Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 May 2019 12:31:26 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Chris J Dixon
At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Oh, I know LOTS of telephone numbers: my Grannie's was Birkenhead 117,
later Claughton 5117, my best friend's was Mountwood 1378, Dad's
business was Central 6517 ...

Ours was Eaglescliffe 2201. (And IIRR my mum "shopped online" -
certainly had deliveries.)
There was one tiny exchange - somewhere on the north coast of Scotland I
think - that still had single-digit numbers, well into the STD era. I
remember reading that the locals (thinking about it, there must have
been no more than ten of them, probably fewer) latterly had difficulty
convincing people.

When we had a four figure number (which I won't reveal here - useful
passwords, these numbers you've remembered for 60 years) our Isle of Wight
cousins number was Sandown 69 (it was years before I understood why that
made people laugh). The Sandown number grew, one or two figures at a time
until it became a Portsmouth all-figure number which bore no relation to
the original.

‘Sandown 69 eh? Careful where those grains end up!

[Rosemary Miskin]

The Sandown number grew, one or two figures at a time 

My parents number was originally 7nnn, then became 77nnn and finally 707nnn.

Rosemary

[Tony Smith Gloucestershire]

Post by Rosemary Miskin

The Sandown number grew, one or two figures at a time 

My parents number was originally 7nnn, then became 77nnn and finally 707nnn.
Rosemary

nnn = 812?

[Rosemary Miskin]

Tony asked

nn = 812? 

Yes.

I don't know who, if anyone, has that number now.

Rosemary

[BrritSki]

Post by Chris J Dixon
At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Our Coventry home number (sold by Mum nearly 20 years ago) was 01203
24876. Our Bedford number was 01234 261629.

[Vicky Ayech]

On Thu, 23 May 2019 12:18:56 +0100, Jenny M Benson

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Chris J Dixon
At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Oh, I know LOTS of telephone numbers: my Grannie's was Birkenhead 117,
later Claughton 5117, my best friend's was Mountwood 1378, Dad's
business was Central 6517 ...

MTAAW
I know FINchley ones and SPEedwell ones

[LFS]

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 23 May 2019 12:18:56 +0100, Jenny M Benson

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Chris J Dixon
At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Oh, I know LOTS of telephone numbers: my Grannie's was Birkenhead 117,
later Claughton 5117, my best friend's was Mountwood 1378, Dad's
business was Central 6517 ...

MTAAW
I know FINchley ones and SPEedwell ones

I know those, as well as COLindale and WORdsworth ones.

[Penny]

On Thu, 23 May 2019 18:35:39 +0100, LFS <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by LFS

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Thu, 23 May 2019 12:18:56 +0100, Jenny M Benson

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Chris J Dixon
At least I knew a few phone numbers back then. These days, since
you don't have to remember them, I don't, at all. I know my home
landline, but certainly don't know my mobile number, or BOFE's.

Oh, I know LOTS of telephone numbers: my Grannie's was Birkenhead 117,
later Claughton 5117, my best friend's was Mountwood 1378, Dad's
business was Central 6517 ...

MTAAW
I know FINchley ones and SPEedwell ones

I know those, as well as COLindale and WORdsworth ones.

I have sometimes wondered about learning telephone numbers by turning them
into words. The ones tend to spoil this idea though :(

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by Penny
I have sometimes wondered about learning telephone numbers by turning them
into words. The ones tend to spoil this idea though:(

My sis-in-law told me about that trick and converted my then-number to
"Big-busted Old-age-pensioner." Trouble was, I kept thinking a big bust
was 48, not 42!

[Mike]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Penny
I have sometimes wondered about learning telephone numbers by turning them
into words. The ones tend to spoil this idea though:(

My sis-in-law told me about that trick and converted my then-number to
"Big-busted Old-age-pensioner." Trouble was, I kept thinking a big bust
was 48, not 42!

Boobed again!

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Mike

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Penny
I have sometimes wondered about learning telephone numbers by turning them
into words. The ones tend to spoil this idea though:(

My sis-in-law told me about that trick and converted my then-number to
"Big-busted Old-age-pensioner." Trouble was, I kept thinking a big bust
was 48, not 42!

Boobed again!

(-:

It's often _relative_ size that appears large, rather than the absolute
figure. Ms. Parton, for example (according to http://bit.ly/2YR9Zut) is
only 5'0" tall (other sites agree on that), and quite thin (41-25-38),
so they _look_ large. (That site says 36E.)

Interestingly, I've just tried to find a counter-example - someone whose
large bust measurement is not particularly noticeable because of her
height - but I couldn't; most of the tall actresses I've actually heard
of actually have low absolute numbers (and only A or B).

(I feel a little uneasy doing this "meat market" type research, but once
I'd started, thought I'd carry on.)

[Mike]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Mike

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Penny
I have sometimes wondered about learning telephone numbers by turning them
into words. The ones tend to spoil this idea though:(

My sis-in-law told me about that trick and converted my then-number to
"Big-busted Old-age-pensioner." Trouble was, I kept thinking a big bust
was 48, not 42!

Boobed again!

It's often _relative_ size that appears large, rather than the absolute
figure. Ms. Parton, for example (according to http://bit.ly/2YR9Zut) is
only 5'0" tall (other sites agree on that), and quite thin (41-25-38),
so they _look_ large. (That site says 36E.)
Interestingly, I've just tried to find a counter-example - someone whose
large bust measurement is not particularly noticeable because of her
height - but I couldn't; most of the tall actresses I've actually heard
of actually have low absolute numbers (and only A or B).
(I feel a little uneasy doing this "meat market" type research, but once
I'd started, thought I'd carry on.)

I suppose you feel you must keep abreast of the situation...

[Fred]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Vicky Ayech
My mum's last phone, last seen about 1996, was an older style than
that. Black bakerlite and a skinny waisted lower part
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123720574940?chn=ps this I think

Complete with that little drawer at the bottom which held a single small
sheet of card on which _all_ your telephone numbers could be written.

But we found when we moved into our 1905(ish) house a card in the cupboard under the stairs telling _how_ to use the phone, including the reminder to hang up when finished.
It is now mounted on the wall next to the (now sadly non-functional) original bell with two bells and a hammer rattling between them.

Fred

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Fred

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Vicky Ayech
My mum's last phone, last seen about 1996, was an older style than
that. Black bakerlite and a skinny waisted lower part
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123720574940?chn=ps this I think

Complete with that little drawer at the bottom which held a single small
sheet of card on which _all_ your telephone numbers could be written.

But we found when we moved into our 1905(ish) house a card in the
cupboard under the stairs telling _how_ to use the phone, including the
reminder to hang up when finished.

Beware: due to the draconian rules in place before privatisation, that
card is almost certainly still the property of the G. P. O. or it's
successors (-: [Punctuated in appropriate style.]

Post by Fred
It is now mounted on the wall next to the (now sadly non-functional)
original bell with two bells and a hammer rattling between them.

Unless it's actually burnt out a turn, I'd be surprised if that couldn't
be made to work again. Either with your landline (if you have one!), or
- which would be a pleasing novelty - with your fobile.

Post by Fred
Fred

John
--


(Where has the "treat northern Ireland differently" option gone?)

Three- (or four-) way referendum, if we _have_ to have another one.

"People's"? Who do you think voted in 2016 - dogs? chimpanzees? Only the
aristocracy?

[Nick Odell]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(Where has the "treat northern Ireland differently" option gone?)
Three- (or four-) way referendum, if we _have_ to have another one.
"People's"? Who do you think voted in 2016 - dogs? chimpanzees? Only the
aristocracy?

Given that the BBC and the other broadcasters are forbidden under
electoral law from discussing British and European political matters
today, are you absolutely sure you are allowed to say that on usenet?

Nick

[Mike]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(Where has the "treat northern Ireland differently" option gone?)
Three- (or four-) way referendum, if we _have_ to have another one.
"People's"? Who do you think voted in 2016 - dogs? chimpanzees? Only the
aristocracy?

Given that the BBC and the other broadcasters are forbidden under
electoral law from discussing British and European political matters
today, are you absolutely sure you are allowed to say that on usenet?
Nick

Irish motto: ‘Vote early, vote often.’

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(Where has the "treat northern Ireland differently" option gone?)
Three- (or four-) way referendum, if we _have_ to have another one.
"People's"? Who do you think voted in 2016 - dogs? chimpanzees? Only the
aristocracy?

Given that the BBC and the other broadcasters are forbidden under
electoral law from discussing British and European political matters
today, are you absolutely sure you are allowed to say that on usenet?
Nick

If I suddenly stop posting, you'll know the black helicopters have
finally got me. [Do we have a UK equivalent of that phrase?]

The last point was prompted by "people's vote", which, whether you think
there should be another one or not, implies the 2016 one wasn't, which
implication I object to.

I'm not sure the ban on political matters remains: certainly we're
hearing on every bulletin (though I don't think it's actually been
confirmed!) that the publication of a certain bill has been
postponed/cancelled.

[Mike]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Nick Odell

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(Where has the "treat northern Ireland differently" option gone?)
Three- (or four-) way referendum, if we _have_ to have another one.
"People's"? Who do you think voted in 2016 - dogs? chimpanzees? Only the
aristocracy?

Given that the BBC and the other broadcasters are forbidden under
electoral law from discussing British and European political matters
today, are you absolutely sure you are allowed to say that on usenet?
Nick

If I suddenly stop posting, you'll know the black helicopters have
finally got me. [Do we have a UK equivalent of that phrase?]
The last point was prompted by "people's vote", which, whether you think
there should be another one or not, implies the 2016 one wasn't, which
implication I object to.
I'm not sure the ban on political matters remains: certainly we're
hearing on every bulletin (though I don't think it's actually been
confirmed!) that the publication of a certain bill has been
postponed/cancelled.

R4 have mentioned the ban several times in my hearing today, then go ahead
with poly ticks just the same:-(

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
The last point was prompted by "people's vote", which, whether you think
there should be another one or not, implies the 2016 one wasn't, which
implication I object to.

No, it's based on the premise that the people should vote on whatever
deal is negotiated, rather than just MPs.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
If I suddenly stop posting, you'll know the black helicopters have
finally got me. [Do we have a UK equivalent of that phrase?]

I'm sure that HMG could afford at least _one_ black helicopter of its
very own.
Or at least some form of timeshare scheme on a beige one.

[Penny]

On Thu, 23 May 2019 12:26:11 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Beware: due to the draconian rules in place before privatisation, that
card is almost certainly still the property of the G. P. O. or it's
successors (-: [Punctuated in appropriate style.]

Um, were the G. P. O. noted for believing possessive its had an apostrophe?

[Mike]

Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 May 2019 12:26:11 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Beware: due to the draconian rules in place before privatisation, that
card is almost certainly still the property of the G. P. O. or it's
successors (-: [Punctuated in appropriate style.]

Um, were the G. P. O. noted for believing possessive its had an apostrophe?

‘Grossly Pedantic Officials?

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 May 2019 12:26:11 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Beware: due to the draconian rules in place before privatisation, that
card is almost certainly still the property of the G. P. O. or it's
successors (-: [Punctuated in appropriate style.]

Um, were the G. P. O. noted for believing possessive its had an apostrophe?

Hangs head in shame! I meant the dots and spaces, of course.

[Fred]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Fred
But we found when we moved into our 1905(ish) house a card in the
cupboard under the stairs telling _how_ to use the phone, including the
reminder to hang up when finished.

Beware: due to the draconian rules in place before privatisation, that
card is almost certainly still the property of the G. P. O. or it's
successors (-: [Punctuated in appropriate style.]

I had a prolonged correspondence with BT about the bell. It was rented for some peppercorn amount and I offered to buy it as the cost of billing outweighed the rental.
Literally years later, /they/ just stopped billing me.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Fred
It is now mounted on the wall next to the (now sadly non-functional)
original bell with two bells and a hammer rattling between them.

Unless it's actually burnt out a turn, I'd be surprised if that couldn't
be made to work again. Either with your landline (if you have one!), or
- which would be a pleasing novelty - with your fobile.

The engineer who replaced our box (the one where the line enters the house) tried for a while to connect the bell to the line but eventually gave up.

Fred

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by Fred

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Fred
It is now mounted on the wall next to the (now sadly non-functional)
original bell with two bells and a hammer rattling between them.

Unless it's actually burnt out a turn, I'd be surprised if that couldn't
be made to work again. Either with your landline (if you have one!), or
- which would be a pleasing novelty - with your fobile.

The engineer who replaced our box (the one where the line enters the
house) tried for a while to connect the bell to the line but eventually
gave up.
Fred

Getting it reconnected to the actual line might be too much to hope for.
First thing is to see if it still works - which might require quite a
lot of volts; the "ringing voltage" was quite high! (I think in the tens
of volts; someone here ... no, I'll look:) Hm,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringing_%28telephony%29 suggests it's both
more volts and more complicated than I thought! Though I suspect it may
not need the 20 Hz component. If you can get a ding or a dong by just
applying some volts across it, might tell whether it's worth going any
further. If you can look closely at it, you could try with low voltages
to see if the hammer even _moves_ a little.

If it _does_ work (no burned out turns), it shouldn't be too difficult
to find a supply for it - which could be keyed optically from any sort
of ring detector, even one that detects fobile calls; I know you can get
novelty pens that flash when your mobile rings, but I don't know what
the range is - I suspect they have to be in the same jacket as the
handset, or something like that, which wouldn't do.

[Fred]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Getting it reconnected to the actual line might be too much to hope for.

That's what I thought.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
If it _does_ work (no burned out turns), it shouldn't be too difficult
to find a supply for it - which could be keyed optically from any sort
of ring detector, even one that detects fobile calls; I know you can get
novelty pens that flash when your mobile rings, but I don't know what
the range is - I suspect they have to be in the same jacket as the
handset, or something like that, which wouldn't do.

This sounds almost do-able, and fun.

Fred

[Mike]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Vicky Ayech
On Wed, 22 May 2019 03:16:33 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by steveski
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase? In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?)

Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

This http://255soft.uk/temp/20181027.jpg,
http://255soft.uk/temp/20190123.jpg is my default telephone, and still
works fine. (I do have to keep a modern one to hand because "dial 1 for
..." systems don't work with pulse dialling.) I feel its audio is
better. (Mum bought it as a novelty gift for me - it's very heavy,
ex-Canadian I think - but when I found it worked, I started to use it!)
I don't have a "candlestick" one, from which I think we get the "hanging
up" expression, but I think they'd still work too, at least ones with a
dial. (Even ones without, you can still "bang out" a number on the rest,
but with today's long numbers, you're more likely to make an error.)

My mum's last phone, last seen about 1996, was an older style than
that. Black bakerlite and a skinny waisted lower part
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123720574940?chn=ps this I think

Complete with that little drawer at the bottom which held a single small
sheet of card on which _all_ your telephone numbers could be written.

‘Whitehall 1-2, 1-2’

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Vicky Ayech
My mum's last phone, last seen about 1996, was an older style than
that. Black bakerlite and a skinny waisted lower part
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123720574940?chn=ps  this I think

Complete with that little drawer at the bottom which held a single small
sheet of card on which _all_ your telephone numbers could be written.

Do you remember those telephone number storage devices where you slid a
knob down the alphabet on the front pressed the button and it opened at
the right page? Didn't you think they were just MAGIC?!

[Mike]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Vicky Ayech
My mum's last phone, last seen about 1996, was an older style than
that. Black bakerlite and a skinny waisted lower part
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123720574940?chn=ps  this I think

Complete with that little drawer at the bottom which held a single small
sheet of card on which _all_ your telephone numbers could be written.

Do you remember those telephone number storage devices where you slid a
knob down the alphabet on the front pressed the button and it opened at
the right page? Didn't you think they were just MAGIC?!

Ah but, was the indexation linked to RPI or CPI?

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by Mike

Post by Jenny M Benson
Do you remember those telephone number storage devices where you slid a
knob down the alphabet on the front pressed the button and it opened at
the right page? Didn't you think they were just MAGIC?!

Yes; I think I had one. (It might have been an address book.)

Post by Mike
Ah but, was the indexation linked to RPI or CPI?

VG! CPI wouldn't have been invented then. I still use RPI for my
finances - but you have to dig for it these days; if anyone wants to
know, it's on
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflationandpriceindices/datasets/consumerpriceinflation
- you click on the green square below "Current", then open what you've
downloaded and go to Table 37. (The April one has just come out - and is
3.0%.)

[Chris McMillan]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Vicky Ayech
My mum's last phone, last seen about 1996, was an older style than
that. Black bakerlite and a skinny waisted lower part
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123720574940?chn=ps  this I think

Complete with that little drawer at the bottom which held a single small
sheet of card on which _all_ your telephone numbers could be written.

Do you remember those telephone number storage devices where you slid a
knob down the alphabet on the front pressed the button and it opened at
the right page? Didn't you think they were just MAGIC?!

I only threw my parents one out at xmas: it hadn’t worked in years but
stepma threw nothing out that dad wrote in.

Sincerely Chris

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by Chris McMillan

Post by Jenny M Benson
Do you remember those telephone number storage devices where you slid a
knob down the alphabet on the front pressed the button and it opened at
the right page? Didn't you think they were just MAGIC?!

I only threw my parents one out at xmas: it hadn’t worked in years but
stepma threw nothing out that dad wrote in.
Sincerely Chris

I still have email addresses of people long dead in my electronic
address books.

[LFS]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Vicky Ayech
My mum's last phone, last seen about 1996, was an older style than
that. Black bakerlite and a skinny waisted lower part
https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/123720574940?chn=ps  this I think

Complete with that little drawer at the bottom which held a single
small sheet of card on which _all_ your telephone numbers could be
written.

Do you remember those telephone number storage devices where you slid a
knob down the alphabet on the front pressed the button and it opened at
the right page?  Didn't you think they were just MAGIC?!

Oh yes! My aunt had one and I was allowed to play with it when I
visited. I think I may still have it somewhere.

[Sam Plusnet]

On 23-May-19 12:08, Jenny M Benson wrote:
written.

Post by Jenny M Benson
Do you remember those telephone number storage devices where you slid a
knob down the alphabet on the front pressed the button and it opened at
the right page?  Didn't you think they were just MAGIC?!

What?
Are you trying to imply that they _aren't_ magic?
You're just having a joke with me... I can tell you know.

[Chris J Dixon]

Post by steveski
Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

Which reminds me that if ever anybody had used the BT facility to
leave a message, which would only have happened if my line was
engaged, I would not realise.

The signal for a message waiting is an interrupted dial tone.
These days, with cordless handsets, does anybody ever actually
listen for a dial tone?

Chris

[Fred]

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by steveski
Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

Which reminds me that if ever anybody had used the BT facility to
leave a message, which would only have happened if my line was
engaged, I would not realise.
The signal for a message waiting is an interrupted dial tone.
These days, with cordless handsets, does anybody ever actually
listen for a dial tone?

Funnily enough, I do.
I pick up the cordless handset, press the green "connect" thingy, check the dial tone and then dial.
Why waste the effort if the phone, for whatever reason, isn't working?
Fred

Post by Chris J Dixon
Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
Plant amazing Acers.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Fred

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by steveski
Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

Which reminds me that if ever anybody had used the BT facility to
leave a message, which would only have happened if my line was
engaged, I would not realise.
The signal for a message waiting is an interrupted dial tone.
These days, with cordless handsets, does anybody ever actually
listen for a dial tone?

Funnily enough, I do.
I pick up the cordless handset, press the green "connect" thingy, check
the dial tone and then dial.

Me too.

Post by Fred
Why waste the effort if the phone, for whatever reason, isn't working?

[]

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by steveski
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase? In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?)

Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

I still "pull the chain" after using the loo.

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by steveski
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase? In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?)

Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

I still "pull the chain" after using the loo.

My loo, installed by me, has a chain. The layout of the smallest room in
the house (and positioning of pipes etc.) means it works much better with
the cistern high up on the side wall. I'm sure the extra momentum in the
flush is beneficial as well.

[steveski]

On Wed, 22 May 2019 10:00:29 +0000, Jim Easterbrook wrote:

[]

Post by Jim Easterbrook
My loo, installed by me, has a chain. The layout of the smallest room in
the house (and positioning of pipes etc.) means it works much better
with the cistern high up on the side wall. I'm sure the extra momentum
in the flush is beneficial as well.

No dreadnoughts, then?

[Jim Easterbrook]

Post by steveski
[]

Post by Jim Easterbrook
My loo, installed by me, has a chain. The layout of the smallest room
in the house (and positioning of pipes etc.) means it works much better
with the cistern high up on the side wall. I'm sure the extra momentum
in the flush is beneficial as well.

No dreadnoughts, then?

I have a balanced diet.

[Serena Blanchflower]

 I still "pull the chain" after using the loo.

It's always surprised me that that kind of cistern hasn't come back into
fashion. It should be possible to get a better flush, using less water,
if you take advantage of gravity.

[Vicky Ayech]

On Wed, 22 May 2019 12:41:27 +0100, Serena Blanchflower

Post by Serena Blanchflower

 I still "pull the chain" after using the loo.

It's always surprised me that that kind of cistern hasn't come back into
fashion. It should be possible to get a better flush, using less water,
if you take advantage of gravity.

Ah yes, gravity. An uncle and aunt had one of those cisterns over the
toilet, high up on the wall. It leaked a bit when you pulled the
chain. We all knew you had to pull and run.

Uncle was a country GP in Banbury, He had two semis and one was the
surgery but the rooms above were bedrooms attached to the living side
of the house. When I stayed as a child I was able to go and visit the
receptionist, who was very kind, and showed me how she tested samples.
Test tube held over flame. Just like a science lesson. She was not
like the usual image of a dragon receptionist.

[Jane Vernon]

Post by steveski
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase?  In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?)

Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

 I still "pull the chain" after using the loo.

I do that in the loo which operates that way.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Jane Vernon

Post by steveski
[]

Post by Sam Plusnet
Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase?  In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?)

Like 'dialling' or 'hanging up'?

 I still "pull the chain" after using the loo.

I do that in the loo which operates that way.

Ah, but does the handle on yours say "please pull" on it? I remember a
prog. from the 1970s, by Mad Lucy*, about public loos, called something
like Temples of Convenience; in it, among other things, she revealed
that she had a collection of pulls, but had not been able to find one
that said please pull.

(I've been looking for that prog. for years - for some reason it's not
on YouTube, although several of Lucy's other prog.s are. I particularly
want the song in the middle, in which a male voice choir sing all the
euphemisms for "have a pee", to the tune of Men of Harlech. Does anyone
have it?)

* Lady Lucinda Lambton - a delightfully dotty member of the aristocracy
who made a series of, well, _odd_ programmes, I think during the 1970s
and maybe '80s. Had a laugh - or squeal of delight - which I always
thought was the epitome of the word "eldritch". Was an architectural
photographer by profession when she wasn't presenting. Contemporary with
- and knew - the Everly Brothers! Has a worthy successor I think of as
"Fun Lucy", Dr. Lucy Worsley, a lady with a penchant for dressing up,
who does historical programmes - when not presenting, she's something to
do with the Royal Palaces - art historian I think. (Oh, she's just
appearing on the news for something: Chief Curator is what she is.)

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(I've been looking for that prog. for years - for some reason it's not
on YouTube, although several of Lucy's other prog.s are. I particularly
want the song in the middle, in which a male voice choir sing all the
euphemisms for "have a pee", to the tune of Men of Harlech. Does anyone
have it?)

I remember the prog. Also remember either Muir or Norden (Muri, I
think) doing "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the
potty" on My Word (brilliant programme!) when they had to explain the
origin of well known sayings/phrases/quotations.
Has a worthy successor I think of as

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
"Fun Lucy", Dr. Lucy Worsley,

A worhty successor? WORTHY? How dare you sully the former lady's good
name by pairing it with that of she whose appearance prompts an instant
channel change in this household.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(I've been looking for that prog. for years - for some reason it's
not on YouTube, although several of Lucy's other prog.s are. I
particularly want the song in the middle, in which a male voice choir
sing all the euphemisms for "have a pee", to the tune of Men of
Harlech. Does anyone have it?)

I remember the prog. Also remember either Muir or Norden (Muri, I
think) doing "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of
the potty" on My Word (brilliant programme!) when they had to explain
the origin of well known sayings/phrases/quotations.

Oh, yes! I have a book of them somewhere. Some of my favourites from it:

"Carmen - toothy Gordon! Moored!"
Soup, a cauli, 'fridge, elastic, eggs, pea, halitosis.

Post by Jenny M Benson
Has a worthy successor I think of as

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
"Fun Lucy", Dr. Lucy Worsley,

A worhty successor? WORTHY? How dare you sully the former lady's good
name by pairing it with that of she whose appearance prompts an instant
channel change in this household.

Oh - how tastes differ! I watch almost anything she does. (As, I think,
I did with Lucy I.)
Maybe it's a gender thing: I do find Lucy II quite sexy, though I don't
think she tries to be. (I liked Lucy I too. Maybe I'm just a sucker for
a brain.)

[Mike]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(I've been looking for that prog. for years - for some reason it's
not on YouTube, although several of Lucy's other prog.s are. I
particularly want the song in the middle, in which a male voice choir
sing all the euphemisms for "have a pee", to the tune of Men of
Harlech. Does anyone have it?)

I remember the prog. Also remember either Muir or Norden (Muri, I
think) doing "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of
the potty" on My Word (brilliant programme!) when they had to explain
the origin of well known sayings/phrases/quotations.

"Carmen - toothy Gordon! Moored!"
Soup, a cauli, 'fridge, elastic, eggs, pea, halitosis.

Post by Jenny M Benson
Has a worthy successor I think of as

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
"Fun Lucy", Dr. Lucy Worsley,

A worhty successor? WORTHY? How dare you sully the former lady's good
name by pairing it with that of she whose appearance prompts an instant
channel change in this household.

Oh - how tastes differ! I watch almost anything she does. (As, I think,
I did with Lucy I.)
Maybe it's a gender thing: I do find Lucy II quite sexy, though I don't
think she tries to be. (I liked Lucy I too. Maybe I'm just a sucker for
a brain.)

Prof. Alice Roberts annoys me because she prances around and struts about
as though she is on a catwalk and seems to be besporting herself ...
instead of just getting on with the information she is trying to impart and
I don’t doubt the depth of her knowledge of the subject - just her annoying
way of desporting herself and the slo-mo style they use to show her doing
so.

[Vicky Ayech]

Post by Mike
J. P.
Prof. Alice Roberts annoys me because she prances around and struts about
as though she is on a catwalk and seems to be besporting herself ...
instead of just getting on with the information she is trying to impart and
I don’t doubt the depth of her knowledge of the subject - just her annoying
way of desporting herself and the slo-mo style they use to show her doing
so.

YANAOU
Actually presenters who do several of the science documentary type
programmes begin to anny me aftr a while. Prof Alice does seem very
smug.

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by Vicky Ayech

Post by Mike
J. P.
Prof. Alice Roberts annoys me because she prances around and struts about
as though she is on a catwalk and seems to be besporting herself ...
instead of just getting on with the information she is trying to impart and
I don’t doubt the depth of her knowledge of the subject - just her annoying
way of desporting herself and the slo-mo style they use to show her doing
so.

YANAOU
Actually presenters who do several of the science documentary type
programmes begin to anny me aftr a while. Prof Alice does seem very
smug.

I suspect that she delivers what the director & producer call for.
It seems to be entertainment with a science background (often out of focus).

[Mike Ruddock]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(I've been looking for that prog. for years - for some reason it's not
on YouTube, although several of Lucy's other prog.s are. I
particularly want the song in the middle, in which a male voice choir
sing all the euphemisms for "have a pee", to the tune of Men of
Harlech. Does anyone have it?)

I remember the prog.  Also remember either Muir or Norden (Muri, I
think) doing "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the
potty" on My Word (brilliant programme!) when they had to explain the
origin of well known sayings/phrases/quotations.
Has a worthy successor I think of as

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
"Fun Lucy", Dr. Lucy Worsley,

A worhty successor?  WORTHY?  How dare you sully the former lady's good
name by pairing it with that of she whose appearance prompts an instant
channel change in this household.

You too eh?

Mike Ruddock.

[Penny]

On Thu, 23 May 2019 12:57:12 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Ah, but does the handle on yours say "please pull" on it? I remember a
prog. from the 1970s, by Mad Lucy*, about public loos, called something
like Temples of Convenience; in it, among other things, she revealed
that she had a collection of pulls, but had not been able to find one
that said please pull.
(I've been looking for that prog. for years - for some reason it's not
on YouTube, although several of Lucy's other prog.s are. I particularly
want the song in the middle, in which a male voice choir sing all the
euphemisms for "have a pee", to the tune of Men of Harlech. Does anyone
have it?)

Last time you mentioned this - back on 2nd March - I found a book
<https://www.amazon.co.uk/Temples-Convenience-Chambers-Lucinda-Lambton/dp/0312141912/>
and a documentary
<https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/a71efea6afc643fba511dc2f3c0be0cc> (a more
informative link from the Radio Times archive than given previously)

Now you've mentioned the tune I can't stop singing Ode to Woad - several
poor renditions on youtube but not what you were after

(lyrics included below it)

Maybe we could write our own version?

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Penny
On Thu, 23 May 2019 12:57:12 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

[]

Post by Penny

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
(I've been looking for that prog. for years - for some reason it's not
on YouTube, although several of Lucy's other prog.s are. I particularly

[]

Post by Penny
Last time you mentioned this - back on 2nd March - I found a book

Sorry, didn't realise it was that recent.

Post by Penny
<https://www.amazon.co.uk/Temples-Convenience-Chambers-Lucinda-Lambton/d
p/0312141912/>
and a documentary
<https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/a71efea6afc643fba511dc2f3c0be0cc> (a more
informative link from the Radio Times archive than given previously)

Thanks. I must try to remember that Ts-of-C was her _book_ of about the
same time, and that the prog. was "Forty minutes - on the throne", being
part of the 40m series of programmes.

Post by Penny
Now you've mentioned the tune I can't stop singing Ode to Woad - several
poor renditions on youtube but not what you were after
http://youtu.be/XQ5qcWNKi6g
(lyrics included below it)

Another good one! (As you say, pity about the audio. Good that the
lyrics are there.)

Post by Penny
Maybe we could write our own version?

I can only remember most of the first verse of the one I'm seeking.

[Penny]

On Fri, 24 May 2019 03:26:14 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Penny
Now you've mentioned the tune I can't stop singing Ode to Woad - several
poor renditions on youtube but not what you were after
http://youtu.be/XQ5qcWNKi6g
(lyrics included below it)

Another good one! (As you say, pity about the audio. Good that the
lyrics are there.)

Post by Penny
Maybe we could write our own version?

I can only remember most of the first verse of the one I'm seeking.

Well, let's have it then (I assume you've already googled them?).

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Penny
On Fri, 24 May 2019 03:26:14 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Penny
Now you've mentioned the tune I can't stop singing Ode to Woad - several
poor renditions on youtube but not what you were after
http://youtu.be/XQ5qcWNKi6g
(lyrics included below it)

Another good one! (As you say, pity about the audio. Good that the
lyrics are there.)

Post by Penny
Maybe we could write our own version?

I can only remember most of the first verse of the one I'm seeking.

Well, let's have it then (I assume you've already googled them?).

(to "Men of Harlech")

Jimmy riddle, piss or piddle,
pointing Percy, have a widdle,
(tum te tum te tum te iddle) -
sit upon the throne.

I just tried googling, and when I started typing ji- into the second box
in Google*, the rest of the line appeared, so I think I have googled it
before. (There were no results.)

*I use https://www.google.co.uk/advanced_search?hl=en as my default
Google page; gives lots more control, and if in a hurry the first box
works like the ordinary Google page.

jpeg
--


(Where has the "treat northern Ireland differently" option gone?)

Three- (or four-) way referendum, if we _have_ to have another one.

[Nick Odell]

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by Mike
No, no, no - the companies will tell you that paying when due is ‘value for
money’ and that if you pay in advance, they will even give you a discount
allowing you to save even more! Using your money instead of borrowing funds
is preferable to businesses as far as they are concerned.

I was pleased to find that my supplier, Tonik, pays me 3%
interest whenever my account has a positive balance, which is
more than most savings accounts right now. I wonder what would
happen if I massively overpaid?

Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase?  In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?) it
sounds like the best investment available.
I wonder if Moneysupermarket (or whatever) have looked into it?

I'm currently getting about 4% on Premium Bonds but I don't expect that
to last.

Nick

[Krw]

Post by Nick Odell

Post by Sam Plusnet

Post by Chris J Dixon

Post by Mike
No, no, no - the companies will tell you that paying when due is ‘value for
money’ and that if you pay in advance, they will even give you a discount
allowing you to save even more! Using your money instead of borrowing funds
is preferable to businesses as far as they are concerned.

I was pleased to find that my supplier, Tonik, pays me 3%
interest whenever my account has a positive balance, which is
more than most savings accounts right now. I wonder what would
happen if I massively overpaid?

Unless there is something in the fine print (will we continue to use
that phrase?  In the same way that we "ring" a telephone number?) it
sounds like the best investment available.
I wonder if Moneysupermarket (or whatever) have looked into it?

I'm currently getting about 4% on Premium Bonds but I don't expect that
to last.
Nick

Hmmm. No wonder I have not won in recent months.

[DavidK]

Post by Jenny M Benson
I don't usually watch TV in the mornings (not good for my blood
pressure) but my sis was staying with me and put BBC 1 on and there was
some consumer-type programme which really had me shouting = and not JUST
because it apparently required 3 presenters, including the presumably
very highly paid Angela Ripoff and Glorious Honeybun.  People
complaining that they were obliged to PAY to receive paper bills because
they couldn't or wouldn't pay online.
I'm now thinking of contacting the programme myself because I have a
complaint which I think ought to be addressed.  For many years my flat
was not equipped with a shower; now it does have a shower but I prefer
and choose to take baths.  This means I am charged for using more water.
 It's not fair.  Why should I have to pay for more water because I
don't want to take the option of having a shower?
And another thing:  I choose to pay my fuel bill in full on receipt of
the bill rather than by monthly DD in advance.  This means I don't get a
discount for paying monthly.  Why should I have to pay extra because my
choice is less convenient and more costly for the company involved?

CrossCountryTrains have just started charging £1 extra for paper tickets
vice electronic tickets, presumably to cover the cost of maintenance of
the printing and handling mechanism within the dispenser. It seems
mildly reasonable to me but perhaps a little excessive.

It used to annoy me when I cycled to work that the drivers received free
parking; I was effectively subsidising the maintenance of the parking
spaces.

[BrritSki]

Post by DavidK
CrossCountryTrains have just started charging £1 extra for paper tickets
So there is a Cross ahem, *person* re trains ?

[steveski]

On Tue, 21 May 2019 16:45:42 +0100, DavidK wrote:

[]

Post by DavidK
CrossCountryTrains have just started charging £1 extra for paper tickets
vice electronic tickets, presumably to cover the cost of maintenance of
the printing and handling mechanism within the dispenser.

But, shirley, those are 'their' overheads?

It's like a landlord saying "If you'd just hold your clasped hands under
the beer tap, I'll serve you your pint - unless you'd prefer to pay a
pound for a glass?

[DavidK]

Post by steveski
[]

Post by DavidK
CrossCountryTrains have just started charging £1 extra for paper tickets
vice electronic tickets, presumably to cover the cost of maintenance of
the printing and handling mechanism within the dispenser.

But, shirley, those are 'their' overheads?
It's like a landlord saying "If you'd just hold your clasped hands under
the beer tap, I'll serve you your pint - unless you'd prefer to pay a
pound for a glass?

On Wednesdays I buy an electric ticket for a short journey. I don't need
those expensive machines at stations that dispense tickets so
CrossCountry Trains very sensibly give me a discount. Simples.

[Fenny]

Post by DavidK
On Wednesdays I buy an electric ticket for a short journey. I don't need
those expensive machines at stations that dispense tickets so
CrossCountry Trains very sensibly give me a discount. Simples.

Virgin train tickets vary as to whether they are fully electronic, you
have to print your own or you have to get one printed from a ticket
machine. I think it has something to do with which fare bracket they
fall into. I find it very annoying that mine are usually the cheap
ones that have to be printed, yet I have the Virgin Trains app on my
phone and can see all the details, including which platform the train
goes from. The ticket machine at Long Buckby is very hit and miss as
to whether it is actually working, so there are times when I have to
show receipt on the phone to the train guard, then print tickets for
the rest of the journey when I get to Rugby. Why can't I just do it
all on my phone?

[Sam Plusnet]

Post by steveski
[]

Post by DavidK
CrossCountryTrains have just started charging £1 extra for paper tickets
vice electronic tickets, presumably to cover the cost of maintenance of
the printing and handling mechanism within the dispenser.

But, shirley, those are 'their' overheads?
It's like a landlord saying "If you'd just hold your clasped hands under
the beer tap, I'll serve you your pint - unless you'd prefer to pay a
pound for a glass?

When I were a student, wine from the local off licence[1] was (quite a
bit) cheaper if you brought your own bottle.
They did have a crate of (clean) lemonade bottles if you lacked foresight.

[carolet]

Post by DavidK
It used to annoy me when I cycled to work that the drivers received free
parking; I was effectively subsidising the maintenance of the parking
spaces.

The bike sheds also require maintenance.

[DavidK]

Post by carolet

Post by DavidK
It used to annoy me when I cycled to work that the drivers received
free parking; I was effectively subsidising the maintenance of the
parking spaces.

The bike sheds also require maintenance.

The bike sheds were full by the time I arrived; I leant my bicycle
against the fence.

[Mike]

Post by DavidK

Post by carolet

Post by DavidK
It used to annoy me when I cycled to work that the drivers received
free parking; I was effectively subsidising the maintenance of the
parking spaces.

The bike sheds also require maintenance.

The bike sheds were full by the time I arrived; I leant my bicycle
against the fence.

Fences need maintenance too...

[BrritSki]

Post by DavidK

Post by carolet

Post by DavidK
It used to annoy me when I cycled to work that the drivers received
free parking; I was effectively subsidising the maintenance of the
parking spaces.

The bike sheds also require maintenance.

The bike sheds were full by the time I arrived; I leant my bicycle
against the fence.

That sounds like the start of a fine poem...

[Mike]

Post by BrritSki

Post by DavidK

Post by carolet

Post by DavidK
It used to annoy me when I cycled to work that the drivers received
free parking; I was effectively subsidising the maintenance of the
parking spaces.

The bike sheds also require maintenance.

The bike sheds were full by the time I arrived; I leant my bicycle
against the fence.

That sounds like the start of a fine poem...

And is the fence ‘behind the bike sheds’? fnarr-fnarr.

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by BrritSki

Post by DavidK
The bike sheds were full by the time I arrived; I leant my bicycle
against the fence.

That sounds like the start of a fine poem...

Certainly prompts the idea for one, but it doesn't quite scan nicely.

The bike sheds were full by the time I arrived;
I leaned my bike by the fence.
Across the forecourt my office awaited,
Reluctantly, sighing, I made my way hence.

[BrritSki]

Post by Jenny M Benson

Post by BrritSki

Post by DavidK
The bike sheds were full by the time I arrived; I leant my bicycle
against the fence.

That sounds like the start of a fine poem...

Certainly prompts the idea for one, but it doesn't quite scan nicely.
The bike sheds were full by the time I arrived;
I leaned my bike by the fence.
Across the forecourt my office awaited,
Reluctantly, sighing, I made my way hence.

At five a beer upon my mind
All keen to go - what do I find ?
A puncture, I was quite unmanned.
So with my helmet in my hand
On an' on an' on I went
I pumped and pumped 'til I was spent

IGMC

[Penny]

On Tue, 21 May 2019 16:04:40 +0100, Jenny M Benson <***@hotmail.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

Post by Jenny M Benson
I choose to pay my fuel bill in full on receipt of
the bill rather than by monthly DD in advance. This means I don't get a
discount for paying monthly. Why should I have to pay extra because my
choice is less convenient and more costly for the company involved?

Um, I think you've answered your own question there.
You have the choice and choose to pay quarterly.
You are not paying extra.
Those who choose to pay monthly get a discount (because it is more
convenient and less costly for the company).
Seems fair to me.

[Jenny M Benson]

Post by Penny
Um, I think you've answered your own question there.
You have the choice and choose to pay quarterly.
You are not paying extra.
Those who choose to pay monthly get a discount (because it is more
convenient and less costly for the company).
Seems fair to me.

I think you grasped the wrong end of my rant! I was expressing my ire
at those who CHOOSE a more expensive option and then complain that it's
more expensive. I realise that there are some who have the more
expensive option thrust upon them, such as when the Housing Assoc. had
not yet installed showers in these flats, but when did anyone say that
life was fair?

(I do realise that I am not actually paying extra, but not receiving a
discount - I expressed myself rather sloppily.)