SOT: Banks not increasing interest rates

This has been happening for some years now.

Post by tim...
really messy if there are 4 interest rate rises in succession - and
each one of these moves will create a money laundering "event" for me
that is potentially going to flag me up as a criminal.

I don't think so. Millions of people are doing it.

Post by tim...
I wonder if there is any merit in complaining to a regulator about
this, and if so which regulator

They haven't done anything about it in the past ten years so they're
unlikely to start now.

--
Jack

tim...

2018-08-17 11:45:13 UTC

This has been happening for some years now.

not quite

they have been putting people who have fixed term bonds onto derisory
interest rates instead of automatically offering them the opportunity to in
a better deal

or offering accounts with a bonus interest rate that only lasts for a
defined period

but at least then you know what date this is going to happen

With what they are doing today you have to go and check up almost weekly to
make sure that you aren't missing out from the new account.

Post by tim...
really messy if there are 4 interest rate rises in succession - and each
one of these moves will create a money laundering "event" for me that is
potentially going to flag me up as a criminal.

I don't think so. Millions of people are doing it.

are million of people doing it with multiple accounts?

Post by tim...
I wonder if there is any merit in complaining to a regulator about this,
and if so which regulator

They haven't done anything about it in the past ten years so they're
unlikely to start now.

base rates haven't increased in the past 10 years so what happened this
month is completely new

Yellow

2018-08-17 12:26:04 UTC

This has been happening for some years now.

not quite
they have been putting people who have fixed term bonds onto derisory
interest rates instead of automatically offering them the opportunity to in
a better deal

I use lots of building societies, as I am always chasing the best rates,
and I am always informed when the term is coming to an end. The vast
majority of the time I am offered a new bond, a transfer out or a "do
nothing" which will drop it to a low variable rate.

Rarely, and this is the situation with one of my bonds that pops at the
end of the month, I have just told my money will be available on such
and such a date and it will then be up to me to withdraw, start a new
bond or just leave it.

What I do not want is auto-reinvestment unless I have agreed to it.

Post by tim...
or offering accounts with a bonus interest rate that only lasts for a
defined period
but at least then you know what date this is going to happen
With what they are doing today you have to go and check up almost weekly to
make sure that you aren't missing out from the new account.

I am not saying it is right that we have to, but I have got into the
habit of visiting MoneySuperMarket (just because I have got used to the
site) pretty much weekly - so it is a practical course of action. And a
visit takes no more than a couple of minutes once you figure out the way
around.

And before the likes of MoneySuperMarket, we used to look at the money
section in The Telegraph on a Saturday - so what we have now is at least
a step up.

Post by tim...
really messy if there are 4 interest rate rises in succession - and each
one of these moves will create a money laundering "event" for me that is
potentially going to flag me up as a criminal.

I don't think so. Millions of people are doing it.

are million of people doing it with multiple accounts?

I move my money about all the time and I have a bucket load of accounts
(and a spreadsheet to keep track) and I have never been accused of money
laundering.

Post by tim...
I wonder if there is any merit in complaining to a regulator about this,
and if so which regulator

They haven't done anything about it in the past ten years so they're
unlikely to start now.

base rates haven't increased in the past 10 years so what happened this
month is completely new

I am disappointed rates have not gone up but will say that over the last
few months, before the rate rise, savings interest rates have gone up
and you can now get 2.05% for a year fix, when a year ago that was the
rate for a 2 year fix.

tim...

2018-08-17 12:32:08 UTC

This has been happening for some years now.

not quite
they have been putting people who have fixed term bonds onto derisory
interest rates instead of automatically offering them the opportunity to in
a better deal

I use lots of building societies, as I am always chasing the best rates,
and I am always informed when the term is coming to an end. The vast
majority of the time I am offered a new bond, a transfer out or a "do
nothing" which will drop it to a low variable rate.
Rarely, and this is the situation with one of my bonds that pops at the
end of the month, I have just told my money will be available on such
and such a date and it will then be up to me to withdraw, start a new
bond or just leave it.
What I do not want is auto-reinvestment unless I have agreed to it.

I wasn't suggesting that it should be compulsory

all money supermarket was offering me was companies that I had never heard
of

Post by Yellow
And before the likes of MoneySuperMarket, we used to look at the money
section in The Telegraph on a Saturday - so what we have now is at least
a step up.

Post by tim...
really messy if there are 4 interest rate rises in succession - and each
one of these moves will create a money laundering "event" for me that is
potentially going to flag me up as a criminal.

I don't think so. Millions of people are doing it.

are million of people doing it with multiple accounts?

I move my money about all the time and I have a bucket load of accounts
(and a spreadsheet to keep track)

I'm just not that organised

Post by Yellow
and I have never been accused of money
laundering.

but you would never know - until it was too late, that's how it works

you could be one transaction short of being investigated

tim

Yellow

2018-08-17 18:10:36 UTC

Post by Yellow
I am not saying it is right that we have to, but I have got into the
habit of visiting MoneySuperMarket (just because I have got used to the
site) pretty much weekly - so it is a practical course of action. And a
visit takes no more than a couple of minutes once you figure out the way
around.

all money supermarket was offering me was companies that I had never heard
of

I cannot comment on who you have or not heard of, but will point out
that you tend to get better rates from the smaller institutions.

Just make sure that you click on "see all accounts" if the button is
there, as otherwise you only see some.

But as long as they are part of the FSCS compensation scheme I am
usually happy but I do spend a little time checking out companies that
are new to me to satisfy myself there are no wrinkles. But you can
always pass, even if the interest rates are higher, for a more familiar
company. The other thing I do is not put all my eggs in one basket,
however good the interest rate.

I initially passed on Atom for example but once it was clear they were
OK, I put some money with them as their interest rate was far in excess
of what was being offered elsewhere at the time. Which reminds me that
Money Saving Expert of course is also an excellent site.

Post by Yellow
And before the likes of MoneySuperMarket, we used to look at the money
section in The Telegraph on a Saturday - so what we have now is at least
a step up.

Post by tim...
really messy if there are 4 interest rate rises in succession - and each
one of these moves will create a money laundering "event" for me that is
potentially going to flag me up as a criminal.

I don't think so. Millions of people are doing it.

are million of people doing it with multiple accounts?

I move my money about all the time and I have a bucket load of accounts
(and a spreadsheet to keep track)

I'm just not that organised

I have always been extremely well organised where money is concerned,
going back to when I was paid 4 weekly but had to make monthly mortgage
payments and 6 monthly maintenance fund payments as well as all the
other 3 monthly bills.

In those days it was paper and pencil, now it takes no time at all to
keep a spreadsheet up to date with the amount of money, the account
number, the date opened, the term, the rate, as appropriate for the
account type.

I also balance my current account to the penny. :-)

To me, it is well worth the time to know where I stand.

Post by Yellow
and I have never been accused of money
laundering.

but you would never know - until it was too late, that's how it works
you could be one transaction short of being investigated

I am confused, why would I be investigated just for moving money from
one account to another to get a better rate?

I can see that new money might be of interest, but not transfers.

tim...

2018-08-17 19:49:50 UTC

all money supermarket was offering me was companies that I had never heard
of

I cannot comment on who you have or not heard of, but will point out
that you tend to get better rates from the smaller institutions.
Just make sure that you click on "see all accounts" if the button is
there, as otherwise you only see some.
But as long as they are part of the FSCS compensation scheme I am
usually happy but I do spend a little time checking out companies that
are new to me to satisfy myself there are no wrinkles. But you can
always pass, even if the interest rates are higher, for a more familiar
company. The other thing I do is not put all my eggs in one basket,
however good the interest rate.
I initially passed on Atom for example but once it was clear they were
OK, I put some money with them as their interest rate was far in excess
of what was being offered elsewhere at the time. Which reminds me that
Money Saving Expert of course is also an excellent site.

Post by Yellow
And before the likes of MoneySuperMarket, we used to look at the money
section in The Telegraph on a Saturday - so what we have now is at least
a step up.

Post by tim...
really messy if there are 4 interest rate rises in succession - and each
one of these moves will create a money laundering "event" for me
that
is
potentially going to flag me up as a criminal.

I don't think so. Millions of people are doing it.

are million of people doing it with multiple accounts?

I move my money about all the time and I have a bucket load of accounts
(and a spreadsheet to keep track)

I'm just not that organised

I have always been extremely well organised where money is concerned,
going back to when I was paid 4 weekly but had to make monthly mortgage
payments and 6 monthly maintenance fund payments as well as all the
other 3 monthly bills.
In those days it was paper and pencil, now it takes no time at all to
keep a spreadsheet up to date with the amount of money, the account
number, the date opened, the term, the rate, as appropriate for the
account type.
I also balance my current account to the penny. :-)
To me, it is well worth the time to know where I stand.

Post by Yellow
and I have never been accused of money
laundering.

but you would never know - until it was too late, that's how it works
you could be one transaction short of being investigated

I am confused, why would I be investigated just for moving money from
one account to another to get a better rate?
I can see that new money might be of interest, but not transfers.

because all the system sees is the money going in

it all looks like new money

tim

Yellow

2018-08-17 22:13:49 UTC

Post by Yellow
and I have never been accused of money
laundering.

but you would never know - until it was too late, that's how it works
you could be one transaction short of being investigated

I am confused, why would I be investigated just for moving money from
one account to another to get a better rate?
I can see that new money might be of interest, but not transfers.

because all the system sees is the money going in
it all looks like new money

OK but your argument fails down because it is not new money so something
extra-ordinary would be required to trigger suspicion.

But even if it was, whatever the situation was before (and I don't know)
it is very obvious now that our savings are no longer taxed at source,
that "they" know exactly where we have cash accounts and how much
interest is generated and probably how much we have in them too.

So it would have to get through all that before the old bill came
knocking at the door.

Yellow

2018-08-17 22:38:59 UTC

Post by Yellow
and I have never been accused of money
laundering.

but you would never know - until it was too late, that's how it works
you could be one transaction short of being investigated

I am confused, why would I be investigated just for moving money from
one account to another to get a better rate?
I can see that new money might be of interest, but not transfers.

because all the system sees is the money going in
it all looks like new money

OK but your argument fails down because it is not new money so something
extra-ordinary would be required to trigger suspicion.
But even if it was,

There I mean if suspicion was triggered.

Post by Yellow
whatever the situation was before (and I don't know)
it is very obvious now that our savings are no longer taxed at source,
that "they" know exactly where we have cash accounts and how much
interest is generated and probably how much we have in them too.
So it would have to get through all that before the old bill came
knocking at the door.

tim...

2018-08-18 08:31:27 UTC

Post by Yellow
and I have never been accused of money
laundering.

but you would never know - until it was too late, that's how it works
you could be one transaction short of being investigated

I am confused, why would I be investigated just for moving money from
one account to another to get a better rate?
I can see that new money might be of interest, but not transfers.

because all the system sees is the money going in
it all looks like new money

OK but your argument fails down because it is not new money so something
extra-ordinary would be required to trigger suspicion.

it doesn't matter that it's not new money

AIUI the ML trigger is the number/size of payments that you make into
accounts

No doubt, if it got onto the desk of an official tasked with deciding of you
are a criminal, (s)he would take into account the fact that it was just you
shuffling investments between accounts and take no further action

but the problem is, it doesn't always get there, it ends up on the desk of
some numpty at the bank who sees the flag that you are a ML "risk" and
simply writes to you telling you that they are closing your account, with no
discussion. And once you have had one account "refused" you are on the
slippery slope to no bank wanting to deal with you

Post by Yellow
But even if it was, whatever the situation was before (and I don't know)
it is very obvious now that our savings are no longer taxed at source,
that "they" know exactly where we have cash accounts and how much
interest is generated and probably how much we have in them too.

Oh I do hope so

They could add up all my interest and put it on my Self assessment form for
me.

Post by Yellow
So it would have to get through all that before the old bill came
knocking at the door.

As above, a knock on the door from plod, isn't the end result that's the
problem here.

tim

Norman Wells

2018-08-18 08:46:46 UTC

Post by Yellow
and I have never been accused of money
laundering.

but you would never know - until it was too late, that's how it works
you could be one transaction short of being investigated

I am confused, why would I be investigated just for moving money from
one account to another to get a better rate?
I can see that new money might be of interest, but not transfers.

because all the system sees is the money going in
it all looks like new money

OK but your argument fails down because it is not new money so something
extra-ordinary would be required to trigger suspicion.

it doesn't matter that it's not new money
AIUI the ML trigger is the number/size of payments that you make into
accounts
No doubt, if it got onto the desk of an official tasked with deciding of
you are a criminal, (s)he would take into account the fact that it was
just you shuffling investments between accounts and take no further action
but the problem is, it doesn't always get there, it ends up on the desk
of some numpty at the bank who sees the flag that you are a ML "risk"
and simply writes to you telling you that they are closing your account,
with no discussion. And once you have had one account "refused" you are
on the slippery slope to no bank wanting to deal with you

Oh I do hope so
They could add up all my interest and put it on my Self assessment form
for me.

At the moment though they're all tiny little numbers because of
pitifully low interest rates, so are comparatively easy to add up. And
most people won't have to pay any tax on them anyway because the total
will fall well below the savings tax allowances now in force.

I don't know if it's the case at present, but in future I imagine all
you'll need to do is declare that your savings interest does not exceed
a certain amount rather than calculate it and declare exactly what it
is, like CGT now.

tim...

2018-08-18 14:11:37 UTC

Post by Yellow
and I have never been accused of money
laundering.

but you would never know - until it was too late, that's how it works
you could be one transaction short of being investigated

I am confused, why would I be investigated just for moving money from
one account to another to get a better rate?
I can see that new money might be of interest, but not transfers.

because all the system sees is the money going in
it all looks like new money

OK but your argument fails down because it is not new money so something
extra-ordinary would be required to trigger suspicion.

it doesn't matter that it's not new money
AIUI the ML trigger is the number/size of payments that you make into
accounts
No doubt, if it got onto the desk of an official tasked with deciding of
you are a criminal, (s)he would take into account the fact that it was
just you shuffling investments between accounts and take no further action
but the problem is, it doesn't always get there, it ends up on the desk
of some numpty at the bank who sees the flag that you are a ML "risk" and
simply writes to you telling you that they are closing your account, with
no discussion. And once you have had one account "refused" you are on
the slippery slope to no bank wanting to deal with you

Oh I do hope so
They could add up all my interest and put it on my Self assessment form
for me.

At the moment though they're all tiny little numbers because of pitifully
low interest rates, so are comparatively easy to add up.

It's not the adding up that's the problem

it's making sure that I have got all of them

especially if I closed an account during the year and it is no longer
available on my internet banking at the year end.

And most people won't have to pay any tax on them anyway because the
total will fall well below the savings tax allowances now in force.

equivalent to 2% on 50K

might be sufficient for "normal" people

not sufficient for someone who has retired 7 years early and is living off
savings until their pension kicks in

I don't know if it's the case at present, but in future I imagine all
you'll need to do is declare that your savings interest does not exceed a
certain amount rather than calculate it and declare exactly what it is,
like CGT now.

perhaps

Norman Wells

2018-08-18 16:28:38 UTC

Post by tim...
Oh I do hope so
They could add up all my interest and put it on my Self assessment
form for me.

At the moment though they're all tiny little numbers because of
pitifully low interest rates, so are comparatively easy to add up.

It's not the adding up that's the problem
it's making sure that I have got all of them
especially if I closed an account during the year and it is no longer
available on my internet banking at the year end.

Post by Norman Wells
And most people won't have to pay any tax on them anyway because the
total will fall well below the savings tax allowances now in force.

equivalent to 2% on 50K
might be sufficient for "normal" people

It's more complicated than that because you also have a 'starting rate
of savings income tax that may be 0%:

"If your overall taxable income (from employment plus your savings
interest), is £17,850 or less, you may not pay tax on your savings income"

https://moneyfacts.co.uk/guides/savings/how-are-my-savings-taxed/

Post by tim...
not sufficient for someone who has retired 7 years early and is living
off savings until their pension kicks in

If you're not receiving your pension as yet, and only receiving savings
interest, you may be surprised at how little tax you have to pay.

tim...

2018-08-18 18:02:26 UTC

Post by Norman Wells
If you're not receiving your pension as yet, and only receiving savings
interest, you may be surprised at how little tax you have to pay.

Nope,

I know that my savings alone wont be taxed because normally it's all the
"income" that I have in a year. A couple of year's back I reclaimed every
penny that had been deducted at source.

and I also know that in these days of piddely interest rates, it's not
enough to get me over the line to qualify for a new credit card so I can't
swap to one that doesn't charge me for foreign transactions :-(

tim

Norman Wells

2018-08-18 20:06:08 UTC

Post by Norman Wells
If you're not receiving your pension as yet, and only receiving
savings interest, you may be surprised at how little tax you have to pay.

Nope,
I know that my savings alone wont be taxed because normally it's all the
"income" that I have in a year. A couple of year's back I reclaimed
every penny that had been deducted at source.

What do you mean 'Nope'? You don't seem to be disagreeing with me.

tim...

2018-08-19 06:36:33 UTC

Post by Norman Wells
If you're not receiving your pension as yet, and only receiving savings
interest, you may be surprised at how little tax you have to pay.

Nope,
I know that my savings alone wont be taxed because normally it's all the
"income" that I have in a year. A couple of year's back I reclaimed
every penny that had been deducted at source.

What do you mean 'Nope'? You don't seem to be disagreeing with me.

no, I wont be surprised.

I am expecting that result

tim

Yellow

2018-08-18 12:45:12 UTC

Post by Yellow
and I have never been accused of money
laundering.

but you would never know - until it was too late, that's how it works
you could be one transaction short of being investigated

I am confused, why would I be investigated just for moving money from
one account to another to get a better rate?
I can see that new money might be of interest, but not transfers.

because all the system sees is the money going in
it all looks like new money

OK but your argument fails down because it is not new money so something
extra-ordinary would be required to trigger suspicion.

it doesn't matter that it's not new money
AIUI the ML trigger is the number/size of payments that you make into
accounts
No doubt, if it got onto the desk of an official tasked with deciding of you
are a criminal, (s)he would take into account the fact that it was just you
shuffling investments between accounts and take no further action
but the problem is, it doesn't always get there, it ends up on the desk of
some numpty at the bank who sees the flag that you are a ML "risk" and
simply writes to you telling you that they are closing your account, with no
discussion. And once you have had one account "refused" you are on the
slippery slope to no bank wanting to deal with you

I am not going to try to argue that things do not sometimes go wrong,
but I think you would be daft if you allow this sort of (paranoid) logic
to stop you from chasing the best interest rates.

And I say it is daft because they are looking for is new money, paid in
without obvious explanation. It might be from a house sale or an
inheritance or of course, from criminal activities. What they are not
interested in is money being transferred *between* banks and building
societies with a clear paper/computer trail.

But of course, that is your choice but the risk of someone cocking up,
which is your only argument here, is certainly not going to stop me go
after the best returns on my cash. :-)

Oh I do hope so
They could add up all my interest and put it on my Self assessment form for
me.

That comment suggests you are now unaware that we now *all* pay tax on
savings via our tax codings, not at source like we used to. And that
includes those of us who do not do tax returns.

'They' therefore know what interest we have earned without us having to
tell them.

That of course does not mean they do not still ask you on your tax
return in the same way that for years, when I did my Mum's, they would
ask her what her state pension was, when of course they already knew. We
stopped having to do returns when they did away with the OAP extra tax
allowance, but it was only in the last couple of years that the state
pension box started to be automatically filled in.

Post by Yellow
So it would have to get through all that before the old bill came
knocking at the door.

As above, a knock on the door from plod, isn't the end result that's the
problem here.

There is no problem. :-p

tim...

2018-08-18 14:32:09 UTC

Post by Yellow
and I have never been accused of money
laundering.

but you would never know - until it was too late, that's how it works
you could be one transaction short of being investigated

I am confused, why would I be investigated just for moving money from
one account to another to get a better rate?
I can see that new money might be of interest, but not transfers.

because all the system sees is the money going in
it all looks like new money

OK but your argument fails down because it is not new money so something
extra-ordinary would be required to trigger suspicion.

it doesn't matter that it's not new money
AIUI the ML trigger is the number/size of payments that you make into
accounts
No doubt, if it got onto the desk of an official tasked with deciding of you
are a criminal, (s)he would take into account the fact that it was just you
shuffling investments between accounts and take no further action
but the problem is, it doesn't always get there, it ends up on the desk of
some numpty at the bank who sees the flag that you are a ML "risk" and
simply writes to you telling you that they are closing your account, with no
discussion. And once you have had one account "refused" you are on the
slippery slope to no bank wanting to deal with you

I am not going to try to argue that things do not sometimes go wrong,
but I think you would be daft if you allow this sort of (paranoid) logic
to stop you from chasing the best interest rates.

I'm not

I am using it as an argument that the Banks shouldn't force you to have to
chase those rates.

Post by Yellow
And I say it is daft because they are looking for is new money, paid in
without obvious explanation. It might be from a house sale or an
inheritance

but that's (usually) a single transaction.

Post by Yellow
or of course, from criminal activities. What they are not
interested in is money being transferred *between* banks and building
societies with a clear paper/computer trail.

Due to transfer "limits" I am having to make multiple transfers to move my
money

Oh I do hope so
They could add up all my interest and put it on my Self assessment form for
me.

That comment suggests you are now unaware that we now *all* pay tax on
savings via our tax codings,

only if someone adds up what that interest is, and I am saying that someone
is you

your coding does not magically change without that (if indeed it is done
that way, I haven't experienced it)

Post by Yellow
not at source like we used to. And that
includes those of us who do not do tax returns.

Those of us who do tax returns will have to add up our investment returns to
see if we have to pay any tax at all

that is what I am referring to

Post by Yellow
'They' therefore know what interest we have earned without us having to
tell them.

Do they? They may do, but I have seen no evidence that they use that fact
to automatically collect tax.

As I am currently visiting all my internet bank accounts, I'm currently
collecting the information for working out what my income is for 2017-18,
which solely consists of a couple of share dividends (taxed at source, IIRC
not reclaimable) some bank/BS interest and a pension encashment which was
partially taxed at source.

I believe that tax on the pension (some or all of it) can be reclaimed if my
total income is less than 11K.

I don't have a feel for which side of the line I will be yet.

I don't expect to be far enough over to have to pay extra tax, but if I
under calculate my interest I will be claiming a refund that I am not
entitled to. I know that my chances of being caught with the wrong
declaration are less than my winning the lottery, but I like to do things
right.

Post by Yellow
That of course does not mean they do not still ask you on your tax
return in the same way that for years, when I did my Mum's, they would
ask her what her state pension was, when of course they already knew.

initially there was no linkage between "other" records and Tax returns.

But they are now moving towards linking them and pre-filling boxes

last year my earned income was already filled in. But that's the final year
that I expect to use that box

they may be moving towards pre-filling other boxes

Post by Yellow
We
stopped having to do returns when they did away with the OAP extra tax
allowance, but it was only in the last couple of years that the state
pension box started to be automatically filled in.

Post by Yellow
So it would have to get through all that before the old bill came
knocking at the door.

As above, a knock on the door from plod, isn't the end result that's the
problem here.

There is no problem. :-p

tell that to the people who have received such letters from their bank

tim

Yellow

2018-08-18 16:43:38 UTC

Post by Yellow
I am not going to try to argue that things do not sometimes go wrong,
but I think you would be daft if you allow this sort of (paranoid) logic
to stop you from chasing the best interest rates.

I'm not
I am using it as an argument that the Banks shouldn't force you to have to
chase those rates.

I do not disagree with that at all but it is a fact of life
unfortunately - and I say that having spend about 2 hours this afternoon
decided where to transfer some money to.

Post by Yellow
And I say it is daft because they are looking for is new money, paid in
without obvious explanation. It might be from a house sale or an
inheritance

but that's (usually) a single transaction.

Post by Yellow
or of course, from criminal activities. What they are not
interested in is money being transferred *between* banks and building
societies with a clear paper/computer trail.

Due to transfer "limits" I am having to make multiple transfers to move my
money

Yep - 10 grand at a time with the Nationwide unless it is between
Nationwide accounts or you pay for CHAPS. But there is still a
computer/paper trail.

Oh I do hope so
They could add up all my interest and put it on my Self assessment form for
me.

That comment suggests you are now unaware that we now *all* pay tax on
savings via our tax codings,

only if someone adds up what that interest is, and I am saying that someone
is you

I'll try again again. :-)

I do not do a tax return but they know how much interest I have been
paid. And they know this information for everyone, tax return or not.

Post by tim...
your coding does not magically change without that (if indeed it is done
that way, I haven't experienced it)

Yes it does.

Post by Yellow
not at source like we used to. And that
includes those of us who do not do tax returns.

Those of us who do tax returns will have to add up our investment returns to
see if we have to pay any tax at all

To repeat - the tax man however already knows how much interest you have
received in a given year. And yes, I understand they might also (still)
be asking you to provide this info on your tax return too.

But I would guess that tax returns will eventually catch up and at some
point they will stop asking and will automatically fill in the info
instead.

Post by tim...
that is what I am referring to

Post by Yellow
'They' therefore know what interest we have earned without us having to
tell them.

Do they? They may do, but I have seen no evidence that they use that fact
to automatically collect tax.

YES! :-)

How else would they know how much tax to take off the people who do not
do tax returns, given no one pays tax at source on their savings any
more.

Post by tim...
As I am currently visiting all my internet bank accounts, I'm currently
collecting the information for working out what my income is for 2017-18,
which solely consists of a couple of share dividends (taxed at source, IIRC
not reclaimable) some bank/BS interest and a pension encashment which was
partially taxed at source.
I believe that tax on the pension (some or all of it) can be reclaimed if my
total income is less than 11K.
I don't have a feel for which side of the line I will be yet.
I don't expect to be far enough over to have to pay extra tax, but if I
under calculate my interest I will be claiming a refund that I am not
entitled to. I know that my chances of being caught with the wrong
declaration are less than my winning the lottery, but I like to do things
right.

That all makes sense but does not really have any bearing on whether or
not that tax man already knows how much interest you have received on
your savings.

initially there was no linkage between "other" records and Tax returns.
But they are now moving towards linking them and pre-filling boxes
last year my earned income was already filled in. But that's the final year
that I expect to use that box
they may be moving towards pre-filling other boxes

And so they should as there is nothing more annoying than having to
provide info that they should already have.

<..>

Post by Yellow
So it would have to get through all that before the old bill came
knocking at the door.

As above, a knock on the door from plod, isn't the end result that's the
problem here.

There is no problem. :-p

tell that to the people who have received such letters from their bank

So you have statistics?

Norman Wells

2018-08-17 12:51:35 UTC

Post by Yellow
I am disappointed rates have not gone up but will say that over the last
few months, before the rate rise, savings interest rates have gone up
and you can now get 2.05% for a year fix, when a year ago that was the
rate for a 2 year fix.

Sadly, even the top rates are still losing you money in real terms once
you take inflation of 2.5% into account.

Yellow

2018-08-17 18:19:46 UTC

Sadly, even the top rates are still losing you money in real terms once
you take inflation of 2.5% into account.

My personal inflation rate[1] is not 2.5% but even so, it would be nice
to have better rates.

[1] Yes, I really do work it out.

Norman Wells

2018-08-17 18:23:31 UTC

Sadly, even the top rates are still losing you money in real terms once
you take inflation of 2.5% into account.

My personal inflation rate[1] is not 2.5% but even so, it would be nice
to have better rates.
[1] Yes, I really do work it out.

Just out of interest, is it higher or lower than the CPI?

Whenever I try to work mine out, it's always much higher, so I get
depressed and don't want to look.

Yellow

2018-08-17 18:50:29 UTC

Sadly, even the top rates are still losing you money in real terms once
you take inflation of 2.5% into account.

My personal inflation rate[1] is not 2.5% but even so, it would be nice
to have better rates.
[1] Yes, I really do work it out.

Just out of interest, is it higher or lower than the CPI?
Whenever I try to work mine out, it's always much higher, so I get
depressed and don't want to look.

Lower.

I am paying less for gas and electric than last year, having moved to
AVRO, I am paying £6 less for broadband and I cancelled their fee for
unlimited telephone calls at £10 and now just use the included minutes
on my mobile, which used to be included with my broadband but is now £3
a month. The mobile will go up next year, that I am sure of, but at the
moment I am up on the deal.

Petrol has gone up, but I do not use that much now I no longer commute
and a tanks lasts me over a month.

I do not drink beyond a rare bottle of cider and do not routinely
holiday, being lucky enough to live where I do.

I do not eat out much and never have takeaways, but the regular place I
go to meet friends for tea has just increased tea by 10p a pot.

I shop for offers, rarely paying full price, and more often cook from
scratch using what is good value on the day I shop.

No mortgage of course but council tax went up, my most expensive single
bill and probably the most expensive single increase on last year.

I get my entertainment from Amazon Prime, Cinema Paradiso and Audible
and of course have a TV license and only that has increased in price,
Prime and Audible being the same for quite a few years now. My Cinema
Paradiso subscription is new this year, so not sure on that for the
future.

I buy games occasionally, for the PC or Nintendo 3DS, but again, only
ever when they are on offer *and* on my wish list.

So generally, I am on a slightly lower slope than is presented by the
official figures.

Norman Wells

2018-08-17 20:02:05 UTC

Sadly, even the top rates are still losing you money in real terms once
you take inflation of 2.5% into account.

My personal inflation rate[1] is not 2.5% but even so, it would be nice
to have better rates.
[1] Yes, I really do work it out.

Just out of interest, is it higher or lower than the CPI?
Whenever I try to work mine out, it's always much higher, so I get
depressed and don't want to look.

Lower.
I am paying less for gas and electric than last year, having moved to
AVRO, I am paying £6 less for broadband and I cancelled their fee for
unlimited telephone calls at £10 and now just use the included minutes
on my mobile, which used to be included with my broadband but is now £3
a month. The mobile will go up next year, that I am sure of, but at the
moment I am up on the deal.
Petrol has gone up, but I do not use that much now I no longer commute
and a tanks lasts me over a month.
I do not drink beyond a rare bottle of cider and do not routinely
holiday, being lucky enough to live where I do.
I do not eat out much and never have takeaways, but the regular place I
go to meet friends for tea has just increased tea by 10p a pot.
I shop for offers, rarely paying full price, and more often cook from
scratch using what is good value on the day I shop.
No mortgage of course but council tax went up, my most expensive single
bill and probably the most expensive single increase on last year.
I get my entertainment from Amazon Prime, Cinema Paradiso and Audible
and of course have a TV license and only that has increased in price,
Prime and Audible being the same for quite a few years now. My Cinema
Paradiso subscription is new this year, so not sure on that for the
future.
I buy games occasionally, for the PC or Nintendo 3DS, but again, only
ever when they are on offer *and* on my wish list.
So generally, I am on a slightly lower slope than is presented by the
official figures.

It seems you do it on an actual year-on-year expenditure basis. Have
you ever tried a personal inflation calculator, like:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7669072.stm

https://www.rathbones.com/personal-inflation-calculator

Yellow

2018-08-17 22:37:50 UTC

Sadly, even the top rates are still losing you money in real terms once
you take inflation of 2.5% into account.

My personal inflation rate[1] is not 2.5% but even so, it would be nice
to have better rates.
[1] Yes, I really do work it out.

Just out of interest, is it higher or lower than the CPI?
Whenever I try to work mine out, it's always much higher, so I get
depressed and don't want to look.

Lower.
I am paying less for gas and electric than last year, having moved to
AVRO, I am paying £6 less for broadband and I cancelled their fee for
unlimited telephone calls at £10 and now just use the included minutes
on my mobile, which used to be included with my broadband but is now £3
a month. The mobile will go up next year, that I am sure of, but at the
moment I am up on the deal.
Petrol has gone up, but I do not use that much now I no longer commute
and a tanks lasts me over a month.
I do not drink beyond a rare bottle of cider and do not routinely
holiday, being lucky enough to live where I do.
I do not eat out much and never have takeaways, but the regular place I
go to meet friends for tea has just increased tea by 10p a pot.
I shop for offers, rarely paying full price, and more often cook from
scratch using what is good value on the day I shop.
No mortgage of course but council tax went up, my most expensive single
bill and probably the most expensive single increase on last year.
I get my entertainment from Amazon Prime, Cinema Paradiso and Audible
and of course have a TV license and only that has increased in price,
Prime and Audible being the same for quite a few years now. My Cinema
Paradiso subscription is new this year, so not sure on that for the
future.
I buy games occasionally, for the PC or Nintendo 3DS, but again, only
ever when they are on offer *and* on my wish list.
So generally, I am on a slightly lower slope than is presented by the
official figures.

It seems you do it on an actual year-on-year expenditure basis. Have

I have in the past but not recently.

Post by Norman Wells
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7669072.stm

This one is quite out of date, using 2010 data, but I went for it anyway
as it is quite interesting.

And it concluded my inflation rate was 3.5% against the RPI rate it was
using of 4.5%

I wonder if they have one for 2017/2108? I will have a look.

Post by Norman Wells
https://www.rathbones.com/personal-inflation-calculator

I guessed some figures for this one and as my records do not split quite
down to that level of detail, but they should be decent guesses. And it
came out at 3.3% so 0.3% above average. It was notable on that
calculator though that it did not ask about council tax.

Interesting but of course what they do not take into account is that I
chase cheaper so for example, my gas and electric might well not in fact
go up by inflation as I switch. Increased prices of course get me in the
end but the game is to put them off for as long as possible.

I guess they look at you current bills and just stick on the rate of
inflation and out pops a figure.

The only things I am stuck with are council tax, TV licence, water and
car tax - at least that all I can think of at the moment - that I cannot
switch.

Tim Woodall

2018-08-17 10:47:54 UTC

Post by tim...
As I am currently moving my money about to find the funds for my new house
purchase, I was rationalising my myriad of accounts at the same time
And I find that, almost to a man, all of the banks have created a new
savings account with the same name as the previous one that I already have
(but with a new "issue" number) at 0.25% higher interest rates
So instead of increasing the interest rate on current accounts they have
just created a new one and I'm expected to notice this and then go thorough
the hoops of opening this new account and move my money into it
I hope that this isn't a sign of the times because it's going to get really
messy if there are 4 interest rate rises in succession - and each one of
these moves will create a money laundering "event" for me that is
potentially going to flag me up as a criminal.
I wonder if there is any merit in complaining to a regulator about this, and
if so which regulator
tim

There's a consultation about this very issue happening at the moment.

From: FCA DP18/6 <no-***@fcamail.org.uk>
Reply-To: FCA DP18/6 <***@fca.org.uk>
To: ************
Subject: Online response form submission for DP18/6
Parts/Attachments:
1 Shown 81 lines Text (charset: UTF-8)
2 OK 51 lines Text (charset: UTF-8)
----------------------------------------
[ The following text is in the "UTF-8" character set. ]
[ Your display is set for the "ANSI_X3.4-1968" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
Thank you for your submission.
Your responses are given below:

etc

But you'll have to google to find the consultation as I didn't save the
link.

tim...

2018-08-17 11:48:16 UTC

There's a consultation about this very issue happening at the moment.
To: ************
Subject: Online response form submission for DP18/6
1 Shown 81 lines Text (charset: UTF-8)
2 OK 51 lines Text (charset: UTF-8)
----------------------------------------
[ The following text is in the "UTF-8" character set. ]
[ Your display is set for the "ANSI_X3.4-1968" character set. ]
[ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ]
Thank you for your submission.
etc
But you'll have to google to find the consultation as I didn't save the
link.

is this the forcing banks to offer a minimum interest rate?

https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/fca-opens-discussion-introducing-basic-savings-rate-cash-savings-market

tim

tim...

2018-08-17 11:58:02 UTC

is this the forcing banks to offer a minimum interest rate?
https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/fca-opens-discussion-introducing-basic-savings-rate-cash-savings-market

OMG what a load of gobbledygook that is

I don't think it's aimed at consumers

Though my answer to the question is - "No I don't that that a BSR is the
solution to this problem"

either it will be set too low to be useful, or too high so that there is no
competition.

What I believe the rule should be is that banks MUST always contact
customers when they obsolete an account and replace it with a better paying
one and offer an instant penalty free transfer into the new account, with
retrospective transfers to be performed if the bank does not adequately
contact the customer.

and yes, that may make it too honourers for banks to obsolete accounts,
that's the point

tim

Tim Woodall

2018-08-17 12:24:21 UTC

Post by tim...
OMG what a load of gobbledygook that is
I don't think it's aimed at consumers
Though my answer to the question is - "No I don't that that a BSR is the
solution to this problem"
either it will be set too low to be useful, or too high so that there is no
competition.
What I believe the rule should be is that banks MUST always contact
customers when they obsolete an account and replace it with a better paying
one and offer an instant penalty free transfer into the new account, with
retrospective transfers to be performed if the bank does not adequately
contact the customer.
and yes, that may make it too honourers for banks to obsolete accounts,
that's the point
tim

I agree that it's not great. But it includes banks only being allowed to
have one interest rate for a type of account - to stop them penalising
long term customers.

But one of my comments was that there's a place for zero interest
accounts too - especially while interest rates are so low, the time
taken to add up the interest and get it included on a tax return
outweighs the value of the interest - especially for those with marginal
tax rates of 60 or 70% (I'm thinking more of current accounts rather
than savings accounts)

And in extreme cases, 1GBP of interest could, if omitted, leave your
partner liable for HICBTC while if included, cause you to be liable.

Norman Wells

2018-08-17 12:47:33 UTC

Post by Tim Woodall
But one of my comments was that there's a place for zero interest
accounts too - especially while interest rates are so low, the time
taken to add up the interest and get it included on a tax return
outweighs the value of the interest - especially for those with marginal
tax rates of 60 or 70% (I'm thinking more of current accounts rather
than savings accounts)

*They* can afford an accountant.

Yellow

2018-08-17 12:10:23 UTC

is this the forcing banks to offer a minimum interest rate?
https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/fca-opens-discussion-introducing-basic-savings-rate-cash-savings-market

From what I read a few weeks back, this is simply to stop banks dropping
people down on to stupid rates like 0.000001%, not to force them to pass
on base rate rises.

tim...

2018-08-17 12:35:08 UTC

is this the forcing banks to offer a minimum interest rate?
https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/fca-opens-discussion-introducing-basic-savings-rate-cash-savings-market

From what I read a few weeks back, this is simply to stop banks dropping
people down on to stupid rates like 0.000001%,

well 0.01%

Post by Yellow
not to force them to pass
on base rate rises.

but it would presumably increase with base rate rises

a "reasonable" base level of 0.5% today would be derisory if Base Rates
increased back to 6%

tim

Yellow

2018-08-17 18:13:26 UTC

is this the forcing banks to offer a minimum interest rate?
https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/fca-opens-discussion-introducing-basic-savings-rate-cash-savings-market

From what I read a few weeks back, this is simply to stop banks dropping
people down on to stupid rates like 0.000001%,

well 0.01%

I was just trying to make a point. :-)

Post by Yellow
not to force them to pass
on base rate rises.

but it would presumably increase with base rate rises

That was not my impression but of course, stand to be corrected. I think
the idea was to simply have a floor that is higher than 0.

Post by tim...
a "reasonable" base level of 0.5% today would be derisory if Base Rates
increased back to 6%

I don't disagree.

Martin Brown

2018-08-17 13:47:06 UTC

Post by tim...
As I am currently moving my money about to find the funds for my new
house purchase, I was rationalising my myriad of accounts at the same time
And I find that, almost to a man, all of the banks have created a new
savings account with the same name as the previous one that I already
have (but with a new "issue" number) at 0.25% higher interest rates
So instead of increasing the interest rate on current accounts they have
just created a new one and I'm expected to notice this and then go
thorough the hoops of opening this new account and move my money into it
I hope that this isn't a sign of the times because it's going to get
really messy if there are 4 interest rate rises in succession - and each
one of these moves will create a money laundering "event" for me that is
potentially going to flag me up as a criminal.
I wonder if there is any merit in complaining to a regulator about this,
and if so which regulator

The regulator is toothless paper tiger. My least favourite bank has two
accounts by the names of "Ripoff Saver" and "Saver Ripoff" ISTR one of
them has an interest rate of 0.01% last time I looked the other is
merely lower than most other banks.

They spell "Ripoff" somewhat differently to me "Reward".

Santander 123 is not bad for modest sums provided that you can meet the
T&Cs for 1.5% interest on up to £20k. High street banks deserve to lose
customers when they abuse them to such an extent.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

tim...

2018-08-17 14:03:49 UTC

Post by Martin Brown

Post by tim...
As I am currently moving my money about to find the funds for my new
house purchase, I was rationalising my myriad of accounts at the same time
And I find that, almost to a man, all of the banks have created a new
savings account with the same name as the previous one that I already
have (but with a new "issue" number) at 0.25% higher interest rates
So instead of increasing the interest rate on current accounts they have
just created a new one and I'm expected to notice this and then go
thorough the hoops of opening this new account and move my money into it
I hope that this isn't a sign of the times because it's going to get
really messy if there are 4 interest rate rises in succession - and each
one of these moves will create a money laundering "event" for me that is
potentially going to flag me up as a criminal.
I wonder if there is any merit in complaining to a regulator about this,
and if so which regulator

The regulator is toothless paper tiger. My least favourite bank has two
accounts by the names of "Ripoff Saver" and "Saver Ripoff" ISTR one of
them has an interest rate of 0.01% last time I looked the other is merely
lower than most other banks.
They spell "Ripoff" somewhat differently to me "Reward".
Santander 123 is not bad for modest sums provided that you can meet the
T&Cs for 1.5% interest on up to £20k. High street banks deserve to lose
customers when they abuse them to such an extent.

I used to use Abbey National as my main account but I swapped to Nationwide
many years ago

I kept the Abbey account for "spare" but did think about closing it when
their service levels got very very poor, but kept it open because they had a
competitive savings account at the time and ownership of a debit card was
(perhaps, still us) required to access your account via internet banking

It was a good job that I did as I now that I am "unwaged", I use it to feed
750 pounds per month into my NW account to qualify for their perks.

Money which I frequently have to top up back from my Nationwide account :-)

tim

Yellow

2018-08-17 18:24:47 UTC