"Timeless" music

[Andy Evans]

This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.

The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.

I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?

Andy

[Alan Cooper]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this
afternoon. BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin
Cohen basset horn in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless
space - almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a
sense that it was even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what
does this for you?

Well, last night we saw "There Will Be Blood," an absurdly overrated movie (as our
kids had warned us). Bloated, obvious, and centered around a Day-Lewis star turn
even hammier and more ludicrous than his scenery chewing in "Gangs of New York."
What planet was his character supposed to come from with that accent? The music
is awful too--generally both intrusive and inappropriate. But then, when the
gusher comes in, the finale of Brahms' Violin Concerto bursts forth at full
volume. Who cares if it makes no sense whatsoever? Even in that idiotic context
it was sublime. Think I'll listen to a recording of the concerto right now, in
fact :-)

AC

[Dan Amodeo]

Alan Cooper wrote,

. . . the finale of Brahms' Violin Concerto bursts forth at full volume.
. . .
it was sublime. Think I'll listen to a recording of the concerto
right now, in fact :-)

Any suggestions for CDs of this concerto?

Dan Amodeo

[Kip Williams]

Post by Dan Amodeo
Alan Cooper wrote,

. . . the finale of Brahms' Violin Concerto bursts forth at full volume.
. . .
it was sublime. Think I'll listen to a recording of the concerto
right now, in fact :-)

Any suggestions for CDs of this concerto?

This reminds me that I was at the arts center in my town one night to
see a play some friends were in, and as I walked the hall at
intermission, I heard the violin coming in for the third movement of
this, being played by Ricci, and I thought "Why did I have to come to
the play tonight? Why didn't I go tomorrow and listen to this tonight?"
I briefly pondered just staying there and listening, then sighed and
went back to the play.

Kip W

[Alan Cooper]

Post by Dan Amodeo
Alan Cooper wrote,

. . . the finale of Brahms' Violin Concerto bursts forth at
full volume. . . .
it was sublime. Think I'll listen to a recording of the
concerto right now, in fact :-)

Any suggestions for CDs of this concerto?

Well, the one I just listened to was Ferras/Karajan, and it's a beauty. But there
are many fine recordings. For me, the baseline performances are Szigeti/Harty and
either of the Kreislers (I don't understand how people can choose one over the
other). Then Heifetz/Koussevitzky, Oistrakh with either Konwitschny or
Kondrashin, Milstein/Monteux, and Grumiaux/Van Beinum. I would like to recommend
a newer recording, especially one featuring one of the exciting younger
violinists, but I haven't yet heard one to compete with the oldies-but-goodies. I
was sorely disappointed by both Hahn and Barton Pine, irrespective of their rave
reviews. (Haven't heard Julia Fischer's acclaimed recording yet, though.)

The best recent performance that I have heard was a webcast of a live concert
featuring Vadim Repin with the Hungarian National Orchestra conducted by Zoltan
Kocsis. A splendid performance, and Repin plays the Heifetz cadenza, which I like
almost as much as Kreisler's (and much more than Joachim's).

AC

[Dan Amodeo]

Thanks very much for the suggestions, Alan.

[f***@googlemail.com]

On Sep 29, 9:16 pm, Alan Cooper <***@NOSPAMoptonline.net> wrote:
 I would like to recommend

Post by Alan Cooper
a newer recording, especially one featuring one of the exciting younger
violinists, but I haven't yet heard one to compete with the oldies-but-goodies.  I
was sorely disappointed by both Hahn and Barton Pine, irrespective of their rave
reviews.  (Haven't heard Julia Fischer's acclaimed recording yet, though.)  
The best recent performance that I have heard was a webcast of a live concert
featuring Vadim Repin with the Hungarian National Orchestra conducted by Zoltan
Kocsis.  A splendid performance, and Repin plays the Heifetz cadenza, which I like
almost as much as Kreisler's (and much more than Joachim's).
AC

As you did not have a chance to listen to Julia Fischer's Brahms
recording, I am entitled (by PentaTone) to make the first movement
available for download to the public, so just use any of these links:

http://www.violinist-fischer.com/sound_library/BrahmsVC_1.high.ogg
http://www.violinist-fischer.com/sound_library/BrahmsDC_2.medium.wma
http://www.violinist-fischer.com/sound_library/BrahmsVC_1.low.mp3

I could also make available for download this years BBC PROMS live
recording:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/2008/interactandreviews/reviews/05auga.shtml

Let me know by personal email, also which file format you prefer and
I'll send you a special download link for that.

FMF

[Terry]

Post by Dan Amodeo
Alan Cooper wrote,

. . . the finale of Brahms' Violin Concerto bursts forth at full volume.
. . .
it was sublime. Think I'll listen to a recording of the concerto
right now, in fact :-)

Any suggestions for CDs of this concerto?
Dan Amodeo

So many good ones... Perlman/Giulini; Heifetz/Reiner; Oistrakh/Klemperer;
Szeryng/Haitink; Mullova/Abbado; Krebbers/Haitink; Ughi/Sawallisch.

I remember with great affection a recording made in the late 1950s or early
1960s for Mercury, which involved a very old Josef Szigeti accompanied, I
think, by Antal Dorati and the London Symphony Orchestra. Must check to see
if this ever made it onto CD.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Terry
I remember with great affection a recording made in the late 1950s or early
1960s for Mercury, which involved a very old Josef Szigeti accompanied, I
think, by Antal Dorati and the London Symphony Orchestra.

Herbert Menges, actually; there is also a Prokofiev VC #1 by them. Dorati
accompanied Szigeti in the Beethoven Concerto, which actually turned out to
be the least insecure of that series, which included a number of sonatas and
other works with piano, from a technical standpoint (except that the
violinist could no longer play the trills properly).

Post by Terry
Must check to see if this ever made it onto CD.

At least a couple of times, in Japan, on Philips.

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Alan Cooper
Well, last night we saw "There Will Be Blood," an absurdly overrated
movie (as our kids had warned us). Bloated, obvious, and centered
around a Day-Lewis star turn even hammier and more ludicrous than his
scenery chewing in "Gangs of New York." What planet was his character
supposed to come from with that accent? The music is awful
too--generally both intrusive and inappropriate. But then, when the
gusher comes in, the finale of Brahms' Violin Concerto bursts forth at
full volume. Who cares if it makes no sense whatsoever? Even in that
idiotic context it was sublime. Think I'll listen to a recording of the
concerto right now, in fact :-)

It can't be anywhere near as out-of-place as the Mozart Requiem in
"Elizabeth."

[Meier]

Post by Matthew B. Tepper

Post by Alan Cooper
Well, last night we saw "There Will Be Blood," an absurdly overrated
movie (as our kids had warned us).  Bloated, obvious, and centered
around a Day-Lewis star turn even hammier and more ludicrous than his
scenery chewing in "Gangs of New York."  What planet was his character
supposed to come from with that accent?  The music is awful
too--generally both intrusive and inappropriate.  But then, when the
gusher comes in, the finale of Brahms' Violin Concerto bursts forth at
full volume.  Who cares if it makes no sense whatsoever?  Even in that
idiotic context it was sublime.  Think I'll listen to a recording of the
concerto right now, in fact :-)

It can't be anywhere near as out-of-place as the Mozart Requiem in
"Elizabeth."

Or 'Carmina Burana' in "Excalibur", effective though it is.


Alf

[Kip Williams]

Post by Matthew B. Tepper
It can't be anywhere near as out-of-place as the Mozart Requiem in
"Elizabeth."

We visited Raby Castle in September of '97. It was interesting in a
"here's what rich people have done with their money" way. No photos
allowed, sadly, so I didn't get any of the curio cabinet where poor
people sold their trash to rich adventurers. There was, I believe, a
large hairball, and a wizened object that might have been a Jeny Haniver.

There were a lot of brightly colored tents set up beyond the river, and
that was some of the set for the movie, which was filming there at the
time (if I have the right movie in mind). When I see bits of it, I try
to spot places they shot at the castle. Generally unsuccessfully, except
if I see a bunch of colorful tents by the water.

Besides the photo ban, tourists in the venerable old pile (the kitchen
still had ancient implements in it -- not the kind they buy for
tourists, but the sort a wealthy family doesn't bother to get rid of)
were banned from going beyond various rope lines. At one point, another
member of our group who I usually avoided told me he'd found a bathroom.
This was of great interest to me at that point, so I went into a dubious
area not entirely barricaded and found myself viewing and using a
missing link between outhouses and modern pedestal toilets. The seat was
a hole in a great slab of immaculately polished wood, pretending it
didn't even know the tank, which was some way away on the ceiling. I
combined two forbidden acts and took a photo of it. My punishment was
that it didn't come out well.

The photo, I mean.

Kip W

[Bob Lombard]

Kip Williams wrote:
At one point, another

Post by Kip Williams
member of our group who I usually avoided told me he'd found a bathroom.
This was of great interest to me at that point, so I went into a dubious
area not entirely barricaded and found myself viewing and using a
missing link between outhouses and modern pedestal toilets. The seat was
a hole in a great slab of immaculately polished wood, pretending it
didn't even know the tank, which was some way away on the ceiling. I
combined two forbidden acts and took a photo of it. My punishment was
that it didn't come out well.
The photo, I mean.
Kip W

The Ludlow (Vermont) public library once had a toilet like that (except
the slab was marble). It was eventually modernized, because of
over-flushing.

bl

[Matthew B. Tepper]

At one point, another member of our group who I usually avoided told me
he'd found a bathroom. This was of great interest to me at that point, so I
went into a dubious area not entirely barricaded and found myself viewing
and using a missing link between outhouses and modern pedestal toilets. The
seat was a hole in a great slab of immaculately polished wood, pretending
it didn't even know the tank, which was some way away on the ceiling. I
combined two forbidden acts and took a photo of it. My punishment was that
it didn't come out well.
The photo, I mean.

I once used Toscanini's toilet. Really. Actually, the toilet that happened
to be in the bathroom that was attached to his bedroom at Wave Hill. I heard
the call of nature and that was where I happened to be, so there I went.

[Gerard]

Post by Matthew B. Tepper
I once used Toscanini's toilet. Really. Actually, the toilet that
happened to be in the bathroom that was attached to his bedroom at
Wave Hill. I heard the call of nature and that was where I happened
to be, so there I went.

What a fabulous story.
Thank you for sharing this.

[Meier]

I once used Toscanini's toilet.  Really.  Actually, the toilet that happened
to be in the bathroom that was attached to his bedroom at Wave Hill.  I heard
the call of nature and that was where I happened to be, so there I went.

Now, let me guess --- you haven't washed your arse since? :-)


Alf

[Gerard]

Post by Meier

I once used Toscanini's toilet. Really. Actually, the toilet that
happened to be in the bathroom that was attached to his bedroom at
Wave Hill. I heard the call of nature and that was where I happened
to be, so there I went.

Now, let me guess --- you haven't washed your arse since? :-)

I wonder if he has been fishing before using the toilet. Everything Toscanini
has left behind has an invaluable value, doesn't it?
Maybe Mr Tepper wants to transfer it to CD.

[Meier]

Post by Gerard
I wonder if he has been fishing before using the toilet. Everything Toscanini
has left behind has an invaluable value, doesn't it?
Maybe Mr Tepper wants to transfer it to CD.

He could transfer it to LP at thirty-three and one turd rpm.

Alf

[Gerard]

Post by Meier

Post by Gerard
I wonder if he has been fishing before using the toilet. Everything
Toscanini has left behind has an invaluable value, doesn't it?
Maybe Mr Tepper wants to transfer it to CD.

He could transfer it to LP at thirty-three and one turd rpm.

I wonder if it can be compressed and how it will appear after up and down
loading.
Hopefully he liberates it from something.

[Meier]

On Oct 1, 4:16 pm, "Gerard" <***@hotmail.com> wrote:
.

Post by Gerard
Hopefully he liberates it from something.

From Toscanini's toilet?


Alf

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Har, har. If you guys are done now....

That week I spent in New York was 25 years ago, but I remember some of the
details. As a matter of fact, for part of my trip I was staying with a
friend in Brooklyn, and her bathroom had no shower, so I had a nice relaxing
bath instead. Oh, and my friend is a redhead.

As for Wave Hill, I had phoned Morty Frank beforehand regarding the Toscanini
collection there, but he sadly told me that the week I would be there was the
one week of vacation he was taking that year, so I never did meet him. The
only Fanfare contributor I've ever met was Paul Snook, but that was on a
previous New York visit, in 1979.

Not having Morty as guide, I selected one concert that I urgently wanted to
hear, the final NBC Symphony concert of 4 April 1954. I heard this over
headphones while sitting in what had once been the conductor's bedroom.
Within a year, I think, Music and Arts had issued it on LP, then later CD.

[Steven Bornfeld]

Post by Matthew B. Tepper
Har, har. If you guys are done now....
That week I spent in New York was 25 years ago, but I remember some of the
details. As a matter of fact, for part of my trip I was staying with a
friend in Brooklyn, and her bathroom had no shower, so I had a nice relaxing
bath instead. Oh, and my friend is a redhead.
As for Wave Hill,

Beautiful place, isn't it? Hard to believe you're in the Bronx.

Steve


I had phoned Morty Frank beforehand regarding the Toscanini

Post by Matthew B. Tepper
collection there, but he sadly told me that the week I would be there was the
one week of vacation he was taking that year, so I never did meet him. The
only Fanfare contributor I've ever met was Paul Snook, but that was on a
previous New York visit, in 1979.
Not having Morty as guide, I selected one concert that I urgently wanted to
hear, the final NBC Symphony concert of 4 April 1954. I heard this over
headphones while sitting in what had once been the conductor's bedroom.
Within a year, I think, Music and Arts had issued it on LP, then later CD.

[Meier]

Har, har.  If you guys are done now....
That week I spent in New York was 25 years ago, but I remember some of the
details.  As a matter of fact, for part of my trip I was staying with a
friend in Brooklyn, and her bathroom had no shower, so I had a nice relaxing
bath instead.  Oh, and my friend is a redhead.
As for Wave Hill, I had phoned Morty Frank beforehand regarding the Toscanini
collection there, but he sadly told me that the week I would be there was the
one week of vacation he was taking that year, so I never did meet him.  The
only Fanfare contributor I've ever met was Paul Snook, but that was on a
previous New York visit, in 1979.
Not having Morty as guide, I selected one concert that I urgently wanted to
hear, the final NBC Symphony concert of 4 April 1954.  I heard this over
headphones while sitting in what had once been the conductor's bedroom.  
Within a year, I think, Music and Arts had issued it on LP, then later CD.

Well, I don't know about Gerard, but I don't think I can squeeze any
more out of this one. I'm sure you realise that no malice was
intended, but I really couldn't resist a post like that! Neither, I
guess, would you had it been posted by someone else. I (mistakenly)
had the impression that Toscanini was present at the time and this
made it funnier, for me anyway.

I'm pleased you were able to catch the concert though, but I didn't
think you were that old - your photos certainly don't portray you as a
grizzled old hillbilly!

Best, etc.,

Alf

[Meier]

Post by Meier

Har, har.  If you guys are done now....
That week I spent in New York was 25 years ago, but I remember some of the
details.  As a matter of fact, for part of my trip I was staying with a
friend in Brooklyn, and her bathroom had no shower, so I had a nice relaxing
bath instead.  Oh, and my friend is a redhead.
As for Wave Hill, I had phoned Morty Frank beforehand regarding the Toscanini
collection there, but he sadly told me that the week I would be there was the
one week of vacation he was taking that year, so I never did meet him.  The
only Fanfare contributor I've ever met was Paul Snook, but that was on a
previous New York visit, in 1979.
Not having Morty as guide, I selected one concert that I urgently wanted to
hear, the final NBC Symphony concert of 4 April 1954.  I heard this over
headphones while sitting in what had once been the conductor's bedroom.  
Within a year, I think, Music and Arts had issued it on LP, then later CD.

Well, I don't know about Gerard, but I don't think I can squeeze any
more out of this one. I'm sure you realise that no malice was
intended, but I really couldn't resist a post like that!  Neither, I
guess, would you had it been posted by someone else. I (mistakenly)
had the impression that Toscanini was present at the time and this
made it funnier, for me anyway.
I'm pleased you were able to catch the concert though, but I didn't
think you were that old - your photos certainly don't portray you as a
grizzled old hillbilly!
Best, etc.,
Alf- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Damn and blast!! I've done it again. I have only just noticed that
this took place 25 years ago. Sorry!!

Alf

[Gerard]

Post by Meier

Post by Meier

Har, har. If you guys are done now....
That week I spent in New York was 25 years ago, but I remember
some of the details. As a matter of fact, for part of my trip I
was staying with a friend in Brooklyn, and her bathroom had no
shower, so I had a nice relaxing bath instead. Oh, and my friend
is a redhead.
As for Wave Hill, I had phoned Morty Frank beforehand regarding
the Toscanini collection there, but he sadly told me that the
week I would be there was the one week of vacation he was taking
that year, so I never did meet him. The only Fanfare contributor
I've ever met was Paul Snook, but that was on a previous New York
visit, in 1979.
Not having Morty as guide, I selected one concert that I urgently
wanted to hear, the final NBC Symphony concert of 4 April 1954. I
heard this over headphones while sitting in what had once been
the conductor's bedroom. Within a year, I think, Music and Arts
had issued it on LP, then later CD.

Well, I don't know about Gerard, but I don't think I can squeeze any
more out of this one. I'm sure you realise that no malice was
intended, but I really couldn't resist a post like that! Neither, I
guess, would you had it been posted by someone else. I (mistakenly)
had the impression that Toscanini was present at the time and this
made it funnier, for me anyway.
I'm pleased you were able to catch the concert though, but I didn't
think you were that old - your photos certainly don't portray you
as a grizzled old hillbilly!
Best, etc.,
Alf- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

Damn and blast!! I've done it again. I have only just noticed that
this took place 25 years ago. Sorry!!

When Toscanini was dead since 26 years.
Isn't it possible that it was not Toscanini's toilet any more?

[Matthew B. Tepper]

Post by Gerard
When Toscanini was dead since 26 years.
Isn't it possible that it was not Toscanini's toilet any more?

And Toscanini only lived there from 1942-5, so of course I'm joking.

But then, it could have been Theodore Roosevelt's toilet -- or Mark Twain's!

[Terry]

Post by Alan Cooper

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this
afternoon. BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin
Cohen basset horn in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless
space - almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a
sense that it was even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what
does this for you?

Well, last night we saw "There Will Be Blood," an absurdly overrated movie (as our
kids had warned us). Bloated, obvious, and centered around a Day-Lewis star turn
even hammier and more ludicrous than his scenery chewing in "Gangs of New York."
What planet was his character supposed to come from with that accent? The music
is awful too--generally both intrusive and inappropriate. But then, when the
gusher comes in, the finale of Brahms' Violin Concerto bursts forth at full
volume. Who cares if it makes no sense whatsoever? Even in that idiotic context
it was sublime. Think I'll listen to a recording of the concerto right now, in
fact :-)
AC

One of the most remarkable music-into-film transplants I can remember is in
"Master and Commander - The Other Side of the World". In the middle of a
horrendous storm as the ship (18th-19th century I suppose) rounds Cape Horn,
the main mast breaks and the crew hack it free of the ship, sacrificing a
young seaman in the process. The music? RVW's Fantasia on a Theme of Thomas
Tallis. An inspired choice, as it happened.

[Curtis Croulet]

Post by Alan Cooper
Well, last night we saw "There Will Be Blood," an absurdly overrated movie (as our
kids had warned us).

Hmm. That's not good. The DVD has been sitting on our coffee table,
waiting to be watched, for about two months now. I agree about Day-Lewis in
"Gangs of New York," which we saw in the theater and which did not inspire
seeing it again.

[D***@aol.com]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

Beethoven's last quartets. The slow movements. The slow movements of
his last piano sonatas, too. And Bruckner: the slow movements of
symphonies 8 and 9. Some Vaughan Williams, too.

Don Tait

[HvT]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

| Beethoven's last quartets. The slow movements. The slow movements of
| his last piano sonatas, too. And Bruckner: the slow movements of
| symphonies 8 and 9. Some Vaughan Williams, too.

| Don Tait

Faure's Requiem. But then, it's supposed to be timeless - in a sense.

Henk

[Meier]

Post by HvT
Faure's Requiem. But then, it's supposed to be timeless - in a sense.
Henk

Yep. Eternity is as timeless as it gets.


Alf

[Kip Williams]

Post by Meier

Post by HvT
Faure's Requiem. But then, it's supposed to be timeless - in a sense.

Yep. Eternity is as timeless as it gets.

Allegri's "Miserere Mei" really takes the ceiling off the room, as does
Gregorian Chant. Barber's Adagio from the Quartet is pretty meditative too.

Well, if I list more than three I'm bogarting the thread.

Kip W

[Meier]

Post by Kip Williams

Post by Meier
Yep. Eternity is as timeless as it gets.

Allegri's "Miserere Mei" really takes the ceiling off the room,

It takes my whole roof off, especially the Tallis Scholars' rendition.


Alf

[Al Eisner]

Post by HvT
Faure's Requiem. But then, it's supposed to be timeless - in a sense.

I've heard that in the afterlife this is played over and over. I've
forgotten in which of those two afterlife places.

[Curtis Croulet]

Post by Al Eisner

Post by HvT
Faure's Requiem. But then, it's supposed to be timeless - in a sense.

I've heard that in the afterlife this is played over and over. I've
forgotten in which of those two afterlife places.

The one below.

[Andy Evans]

How can we link Faure's Requiem to Toscanini's toilet?

There must be a way................

Andy

[Dawg]

Post by Al Eisner

Post by HvT
Faure's Requiem. But then, it's supposed to be timeless - in a sense.

I've heard that in the afterlife this is played over and over. I've
forgotten in which of those two afterlife places.

The hotter one.

Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by D***@aol.com

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

Beethoven's last quartets. The slow movements. The slow movements of
his last piano sonatas, too...

According to the following recent book:

- ...Beethoven with ideas of temporal transcendence and timelessness...

https://books.google.com/books?id=DyWgCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA8&dq=%22Beethoven+with+ideas+of+temporal+transcendence+and+timelessness%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjQ6Pz62dTZAhVO6mMKHR72CyIQ6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=%22Beethoven%20with%20ideas%20of%20temporal%20transcendence%20and%20timelessness%22&f=false

[Dawg]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?

Mozart's clarinet concerto has a similar effect, almost as if all other
music didn't exist. Too good to listen to often, for fear of diminishing
its effect.

One fairly enjoyable off-beat film I saw a few days ago, was Flawless
with Robert de Niro and Philip Seymour Hoffman, and the tango was
featured in de Niro's attempts with a couple of the gals in the film,
one being the delicious Daphne Rubin-Vega. The tango seems as if it is a
perfect form to these ears, and very very classy music.

Wish I knew of some astounding tango disks that people might recommend.
So, how about it? Ta.

Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree

[number_six]

Post by Dawg

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?

Mozart's clarinet concerto has a similar effect, almost as if all other
music didn't exist. Too good to listen to often, for fear of diminishing
its effect.
One fairly enjoyable off-beat film I saw a few days ago, was Flawless
with Robert de Niro and Philip Seymour Hoffman, and the tango was
featured in de Niro's attempts with a couple of the gals in the film,
one being the delicious Daphne Rubin-Vega. The tango seems as if it is a
perfect form to these ears, and very very classy music.
Wish I knew of some astounding tango disks that people might recommend.
So, how about it? Ta.
Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree

For me, Carlos Gardel's Por una Cabeza and La Cumparsita, and Hector
Varela's Palomita Blanca must be considered among the the finest 20th
tangos.

Check out Gardel's magnificent original recordings. For a vocal
recording, with modern sound, I really enjoyed the Sony CD Marcelo
Alvarez sings Gardel.

For tango nuevo, there are many excellent disks by Astor Piazzolla.

To get a sample of different artists, you could try a tango collection
from Rough Guide, or perhaps Story of Tango from EMI Hemisphere (I
only have volume 2).

Happy listening!

[Bastian Kubis]

Post by Dawg
Wish I knew of some astounding tango disks that people might recommend.
So, how about it? Ta.

I am neither knowledgeable enough about the music, nor have I heard
sufficiently many different recordings to make any well-qualified
recommendations; but there is a ridiculously cheap 2-CD set on Brilliant
Classics that, I think, Samir raved about extensively in the past, which
I really really like, too:

<http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7583681> or
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/42s2ba> (via amz.co.uk)

Bastian

[Dawg]

Post by Bastian Kubis

Post by Dawg
Wish I knew of some astounding tango disks that people might
recommend. So, how about it? Ta.

I am neither knowledgeable enough about the music, nor have I heard
sufficiently many different recordings to make any well-qualified
recommendations; but there is a ridiculously cheap 2-CD set on Brilliant
Classics that, I think, Samir raved about extensively in the past, which
<http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7583681> or
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/42s2ba> (via amz.co.uk)

Neither Zweitausendeins, MDT or Presto keep a copy of this anymore,
which is a pity, as it appears just what I want to buy, going from the
samples I heard. Still, there are many tango CDs available, but finding
the better ones is the main problem. Jpc give me practically zero info
about shipping costs also, so I will just have to wait.

Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree

[HvT]

Post by Dawg

Post by Bastian Kubis

Post by Dawg
Wish I knew of some astounding tango disks that people might
recommend. So, how about it? Ta.

I am neither knowledgeable enough about the music, nor have I heard
sufficiently many different recordings to make any well-qualified
recommendations; but there is a ridiculously cheap 2-CD set on
Brilliant Classics that, I think, Samir raved about extensively in
<http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7583681> or
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/42s2ba> (via amz.co.uk)

Neither Zweitausendeins, MDT or Presto keep a copy of this anymore,
which is a pity, as it appears just what I want to buy, going from the
samples I heard. Still, there are many tango CDs available, but
finding the better ones is the main problem. Jpc give me practically
zero info about shipping costs also, so I will just have to wait.
Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree

Ray,

Shipping costs to Australia are 13,99 EUR following

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/SESSIONID/fa6a8627b71ab0e6dbc22045c7971b5c/home/static/-/page/porto.html

Regards,
Henk

[Dawg]

Post by HvT

Post by Dawg

Post by Bastian Kubis

Post by Dawg
Wish I knew of some astounding tango disks that people might
recommend. So, how about it? Ta.

I am neither knowledgeable enough about the music, nor have I heard
sufficiently many different recordings to make any well-qualified
recommendations; but there is a ridiculously cheap 2-CD set on
Brilliant Classics that, I think, Samir raved about extensively in
<http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7583681> or
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/42s2ba> (via amz.co.uk)

Neither Zweitausendeins, MDT or Presto keep a copy of this anymore,
which is a pity, as it appears just what I want to buy, going from the
samples I heard. Still, there are many tango CDs available, but
finding the better ones is the main problem. Jpc give me practically
zero info about shipping costs also, so I will just have to wait.
Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree

Ray,
Shipping costs to Australia are 13,99 EUR following
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/SESSIONID/fa6a8627b71ab0e6dbc22045c7971b5c/home/static/-/page/porto.html
Regards,
Henk

I saw the above but was left wondering at how much else I could order
for the 13.99 Euro to become reasonable. I did look at a number of the
cpo issues, and might include a few of these, which led me last night to
checking out highly rated cpo issues last night, from various review sites.

Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree

[Bastian Kubis]

Post by Dawg

Post by Bastian Kubis

Post by Dawg
Wish I knew of some astounding tango disks that people might
recommend. So, how about it? Ta.

I am neither knowledgeable enough about the music, nor have I heard
sufficiently many different recordings to make any well-qualified
recommendations; but there is a ridiculously cheap 2-CD set on
Brilliant Classics that, I think, Samir raved about extensively in the
<http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/classic/detail/-/hnum/7583681> or
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/42s2ba> (via amz.co.uk)

Neither Zweitausendeins, MDT or Presto keep a copy of this anymore,
which is a pity, as it appears just what I want to buy, going from the
samples I heard. Still, there are many tango CDs available, but finding
the better ones is the main problem. Jpc give me practically zero info
about shipping costs also, so I will just have to wait.

You may also check amazon.co.uk marketplace, if that is an option for
you. There is a third-party seller offering it for Lb 3.66, which is
roughly doubled by shipping to down under, but still...

Bastian

[Terry]

Post by Dawg

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?

Mozart's clarinet concerto has a similar effect, almost as if all other
music didn't exist. Too good to listen to often, for fear of diminishing
its effect.
One fairly enjoyable off-beat film I saw a few days ago, was Flawless
with Robert de Niro and Philip Seymour Hoffman, and the tango was
featured in de Niro's attempts with a couple of the gals in the film,
one being the delicious Daphne Rubin-Vega. The tango seems as if it is a
perfect form to these ears, and very very classy music.
Wish I knew of some astounding tango disks that people might recommend.
So, how about it? Ta.
Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree

Wish there *were* some astounding tango discs!

[Graham]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?

His clarinet quintet.
Graham

[Toby Winston]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

I kind of take Mozart for granted sometimes, but your example
absolutley fits the bill. Who today can do this? The only name (to me)
that comes to mind is Dutilleux, and he writes so little. For example,
I personally would put Metaboles in this company. Saariaho is another
who has the talent in my opinion.

[JohnGavin]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

The opening piece from Messiaen's Vingt Regards - "Regard du Pere".
All sense of time dropping away in the higher consciousness of
contemplation.

[BrianK]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

I cannot share your response to Mozart's clarinet concerto. It and
other of his works were among my first LP purchases. I was sucked in
by all that I had read about Mozart's undoubted musical genius, but it
was some time before I realised that this does not mean that I will
enjoy or relate to a composer's music.I find that the complex, human
dimensions that I look for and relate to (Bach's joyous
intellectualism, Haydn's verve and humour, Beethoven's struggle and
defiance, Schuberts ever-present feeling of loneliness and longing
etc.) are usually absent in Mozart's works, and particularly ones like
the clarinet concerto. I think it was Bernard Shaw who referred to
Mozart's 'maudlin mode', which I find in the serenade in E-flat for 13
wind instruments, the clarinet concerto and quintet, most of the piano
concertos (some are incredibly banal), practically all the chamber
works and lots more. These days it is only the operas and the later
symphonies (but not No.40) that I listen to with enjoyment. If Mozart
does create some kind of 'timeless world' it is not one that I relate
to and he is a very long way down the list of composers whose music I
want to hear.

Brian K

[Kirk McElhearn]

Post by BrianK
I cannot share your response to Mozart's clarinet concerto. It and
other of his works were among my first LP purchases. I was sucked in
by all that I had read about Mozart's undoubted musical genius, but it
was some time before I realised that this does not mean that I will
enjoy or relate to a composer's music.I find that the complex, human
dimensions that I look for and relate to (Bach's joyous
intellectualism, Haydn's verve and humour, Beethoven's struggle and
defiance, Schuberts ever-present feeling of loneliness and longing
etc.) are usually absent in Mozart's works, and particularly ones like
the clarinet concerto. I think it was Bernard Shaw who referred to
Mozart's 'maudlin mode', which I find in the serenade in E-flat for 13
wind instruments, the clarinet concerto and quintet, most of the piano
concertos (some are incredibly banal), practically all the chamber
works and lots more. These days it is only the operas and the later
symphonies (but not No.40) that I listen to with enjoyment. If Mozart
does create some kind of 'timeless world' it is not one that I relate
to and he is a very long way down the list of composers whose music I
want to hear.

I've felt the same as you, without listening to the operas or later
works. I have always felt that Mozart's music is classical music for
people who like pop music. It's not his fault, but his music is so
"predictable"; you always know where he's going, he never surprises,
and he never goes beyond that plane of predictability.

One of the first LPs I bought (of classical music) was the clarinet
concerto, and it worked quite well for me, coming from a rock
background. I can still hum most of the work, but I find it as exciting
as watching steam rise from a tea cup.

This said, I think his string quartets are very nice, and I recently
gave a listen to Uchida's reading of his piano sonatas. I can
understand why one would want to listen to them - if only to confirm
that one can "get" classical music. They're sweet and pretty. Nice
background music. But I remain astounded that anyone thinks his music
is anything more than that. (Ok, maybe the requiem, but he didn't write
it all, right?)

This said, there's no accounting for taste...

Kirk

[Gerard]

Post by Kirk McElhearn
I've felt the same as you, without listening to the operas or later
works. I have always felt that Mozart's music is classical music for
people who like pop music. It's not his fault, but his music is so
"predictable"; you always know where he's going, he never surprises,
and he never goes beyond that plane of predictability.

Isn't that because you have heard it so often?
I think Mozart was not predictable to the public of his time. Wasn't he too
modern then?

Post by Kirk McElhearn
One of the first LPs I bought (of classical music) was the clarinet
concerto, and it worked quite well for me, coming from a rock
background. I can still hum most of the work, but I find it as
exciting as watching steam rise from a tea cup.
This said, I think his string quartets are very nice, and I recently
gave a listen to Uchida's reading of his piano sonatas. I can
understand why one would want to listen to them - if only to confirm
that one can "get" classical music. They're sweet and pretty. Nice
background music. But I remain astounded that anyone thinks his music
is anything more than that.

Many people think it is much more than that.
It astounds me that you are so astounded.

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

Timeless = "Nunc stans"?:

https://books.google.com/books?id=DyWgCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA35&dq=%22nunc+stans%22+taylor&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjun8mYmebYAhVJ4WMKHehgDu4Q6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=%22nunc%20stans%22%20taylor&f=false

[dk]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?

Timeless = "the quote bot never stops"

dk

[O]

Post by dk

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?

Timeless = "the quote bot never stops"

Nope. He goes down for routine system maintenance every Sunday morning
from 1AM to 3AM.

-Owen

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by g***@gmail.com

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

https://books.google.com/books?id=DyWgCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA35&dq=%22nunc+stans%22+taylor&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjun8mYmebYAhVJ4WMKHehgDu4Q6AEILjAB#v=onepage&q=%22nunc%20stans%22%20taylor&f=false

According to this:

- The need for the arts, poetry and music in particular, with their appeal to the mystical, nonrational part of the mind, may to a large extent be a manifestation of the universal need to escape from the boundaries of time, to exchange one's sense of time with that of timelessness, to transcend from temporal existence into eternity.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1366&bih=662&tbm=bks&ei=JJhpWvraKsOqjQPahriQBw&q=%22The+need+for+the+arts%2C+poetry+and+music+in+particular%2C+with+their+appeal+to+the+mystical%2C+nonrational+part+of+the+mind%2C+may+to+a+large+extent+be+a+manifestation+of+the+universal+need+to+escape+from+the+boundaries+of+time%2C+to+exchange+one%27s+sense+of%22&oq=%22The+need+for+the+arts%2C+poetry+and+music+in+particular%2C+with+their+appeal+to+the+mystical%2C+nonrational+part+of+the+mind%2C+may+to+a+large+extent+be+a+manifestation+of+the+universal+need+to+escape+from+the+boundaries+of+time%2C+to+exchange+one%27s+sense+of%22&gs_l=psy-ab.3...58298.66429.0.66759.19.17.0.0.0.0.296.2747.0j4j8.12.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..17.0.0....0.HAznrif0U-E

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

According to the following:

- ...Said develops a concept of timelessness detectable in the last works of great musicians and writers

https://books.google.com/books?id=ld01DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA91&dq=%22Said+develops+a+concept+of+timelessness+detectable%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjE79O9nezYAhVT2GMKHffMA2sQ6AEILzAB#v=onepage&q=%22Said%20develops%20a%20concept%20of%20timelessness%20detectable%22&f=false

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

According to this recent book:

- Music has variously been heard to suggest temporal transcendence and timelessness, a mimesis of human temporality disclosing the unity of subjective identity, the workings of memory and consciousness, as a cultural reflection of deeper metaphysical postulations concerning the nature of history, and as the expression of the time of the world in spirit.

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22Music+has+variously%22

[John Hood]

Post by g***@gmail.com

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

- Music has variously been heard to suggest temporal transcendence and timelessness, a mimesis of human temporality disclosing the unity of subjective identity, the workings of memory and consciousness, as a cultural reflection of deeper metaphysical postulations concerning the nature of history, and as the expression of the time of the world in spirit.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22Music+has+variously%22

Sounds like a porn magazine - you read it for the articles ...

JH

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by g***@gmail.com

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

- Music has variously been heard to suggest temporal transcendence and timelessness, a mimesis of human temporality disclosing the unity of subjective identity, the workings of memory and consciousness, as a cultural reflection of deeper metaphysical postulations concerning the nature of history, and as the expression of the time of the world in spirit.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22Music+has+variously%22

Concerning DER ROSENKAVALIER:

- It is the purpose of art to show us that something does lie beyond time. Most of the action in Der Rosenkavalier is synchronous with clock time. But at the moment near the end when the Marschallin brings order out of chaos, when three radiant soprano voices rise in the suspended moment of “Heut’ oder Morgen oder den ubernächsten Tag” – “Today or tomorrow or the day after tomorrow” – a moment greater than the others has at last been reached. The action is halted, the three characters stand fixed on stage and, in the time-honored tradition of opera, the music makes its own time.

Some thoughts lie too deep for words, but not for music. The transcendent trio of Der Rosenkavalier, the song of three people caught up in the most important moment of their lives, assures us that this is what makes us human – we alone among creatures have a consciousness that reaches beyond the present moment. We are able to conceive, beyond time, some notion of an eternal and immutable. The still point of the turning world. When the mind reaches to that eternity, a man, or a woman, can say to the moment, with Goethe’s Faust, “Linger on, thou art so fair.” In the trio of Der Rosenkavalier we reach such a moment – a moment beyond time. At a moment like that, when we sense what lies beyond our ordinary lives, all the clocks really are standing still.

http://wesclark.com/thisthat/marschallin.html

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by g***@gmail.com

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

- Music has variously been heard to suggest temporal transcendence and timelessness, a mimesis of human temporality disclosing the unity of subjective identity, the workings of memory and consciousness, as a cultural reflection of deeper metaphysical postulations concerning the nature of history, and as the expression of the time of the world in spirit.
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=%22Music+has+variously%22

Concerning DER ROSENKAVALIER, the following concludes:

- It is the purpose of art to show us that something does lie beyond time. Most of the action in Der Rosenkavalier is synchronous with clock time. But at the moment near the end when the Marschallin brings order out of chaos, when three radiant soprano voices rise in the suspended moment of “Heut’ oder Morgen oder den ubernächsten Tag” – “Today or tomorrow or the day after tomorrow” – a moment greater than the others has at last been reached. The action is halted, the three characters stand fixed on stage and, in the time-honored tradition of opera, the music makes its own time.

Some thoughts lie too deep for words, but not for music. The transcendent trio of Der Rosenkavalier, the song of three people caught up in the most important moment of their lives, assures us that this is what makes us human – we alone among creatures have a consciousness that reaches beyond the present moment. We are able to conceive, beyond time, some notion of an eternal and immutable. The still point of the turning world. When the mind reaches to that eternity, a man, or a woman, can say to the moment, with Goethe’s Faust, “Linger on, thou art so fair.” In the trio of Der Rosenkavalier we reach such a moment – a moment beyond time. At a moment like that, when we sense what lies beyond our ordinary lives, all the clocks really are standing still.

http://wesclark.com/thisthat/marschallin.html

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.classical.recordings/richter$20prague%7Csort:date/rec.music.classical.recordings/bGx7UWcDL5Q/qmwrZk4yAQAJ

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

According to the this:

- [The quiet opening of Holst's "Neptune"] is the intense concentration of a prolonged gaze into infinity.

https://books.google.com/books?id=hGQJAQAAMAAJ&q=%22the+intense+concentration+of+a+prolonged+gaze+into+infinity.%22&dq=%22the+intense+concentration+of+a+prolonged+gaze+into+infinity.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFt_Ou9KrYAhUpxlQKHQ2nC_4Q6AEIKTAA

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

According to the this:

- [The quiet opening of Holst's "Neptune"] is the intense concentration of a prolonged gaze into infinity...

https://books.google.com/books?id=hGQJAQAAMAAJ&q=%22the+intense+concentration+of+a+prolonged+gaze+into+infinity.%22&dq=%22the+intense+concentration+of+a+prolonged+gaze+into+infinity.%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFt_Ou9KrYAhUpxlQKHQ2nC_4Q6AEIKTAA

[HT]

Post by g***@gmail.com
- [The quiet opening of Holst's "Neptune"] is the intense concentration of a prolonged gaze into infinity...

A prolonged gaze isn't timeless ...

Henk

[O]

Post by HT

Post by g***@gmail.com
- [The quiet opening of Holst's "Neptune"] is the intense concentration of
a prolonged gaze into infinity...

A prolonged gaze isn't timeless ...

4G has recycled this one already, even more than the two posts today.
He must like it, or has reached the top of his loop.

-Owen

[HT]

Post by O
4G has recycled this one already, even more than the two posts today.
He must like it, or has reached the top of his loop.

GGGG is an archeologist, delving for treasures in the deserts of RMCR and the internet. Not a very rewarding occupation. Most archeologists find only broken pots and pans. I've the impression that GGGG doesn't fare better.
Some less talented archeologists find the same broken pot twice. They unwittingly misplaced or mislabelled it, or cannot remember they ever found it.

Henk

[n***@gmail.com]

Post by O

Post by HT

Post by g***@gmail.com
- [The quiet opening of Holst's "Neptune"] is the intense concentration of
a prolonged gaze into infinity...

A prolonged gaze isn't timeless ...

4G has recycled this one already, even more than the two posts today.
He must like it, or has reached the top of his loop.

Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.

Post by O
-Owen

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

From the late Beethoven string quartets:

- #13 op.130 5th movement
- #14 op.131 1st and 6th movements
- #16 op.135 3rd movement

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.music.classical.recordings/schubert$20960$20richter%7Csort:date/rec.music.classical.recordings/bGx7UWcDL5Q/qmwrZk4yAQAJ

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

- Music is well said to be the speech of angels; in fact, nothing among the utterances allowed to man is felt to be so divine. It brings us near to the infinite.

Thomas Carlyle

[g***@gmail.com]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

https://books.google.com/books?id=xKcQAQAAIAAJ&q=%22The+need+for+the+arts,+poetry+and+music+in+particular,+with+their+appeal+to+the+mystical,+nonrational+part+of+the+mind,+may+to+a+large+extent+be+a+manifestation+of+the+universal+need+to+escape+from+the+boundaries+of+time,+to+exchange+one%27s+sense+of%22&dq=%22The+need+for+the+arts,+poetry+and+music+in+particular,+with+their+appeal+to+the+mystical,+nonrational+part+of+the+mind,+may+to+a+large+extent+be+a+manifestation+of+the+universal+need+to+escape+from+the+boundaries+of+time,+to+exchange+one%27s+sense+of%22&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjXmJ7yv-LoAhWFvJ4KHcQcBe8Q6AEwAHoECAAQAg

[Lawrence Kart]

Schubert D. 960

Larry Kart

[gggg gggg]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

The sublime (podcast)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p004y23j

[gggg gggg]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

- It awakes something in my soul I wasn't even aware of ^^ A sense of beauty and a higher perception of the world, I don't know it is hard to find words to describe it.

Amazon customer's reaction to Mozart's Jupiter symphony

[gggg gggg]

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

According to this:

- Wagner created the illusion of timelessness—that is, of a musical moment that transcends time...

https://www.firstthings.com/article/2010/12/why-we-cant-hear-wagners-music

[gggg gggg]

Post by gggg gggg

Post by Andy Evans
This is such a corny phrase one dares hardly say it. But I had a
feeling which was exacltly that listening to the radio this afternoon.
BBC 3 played the Cleveland Orchestra with Franklin Cohen basset horn
in Mozart Clarinet Concerto.
The music just seemed to soar above the world in some timeless space -
almost pure melody. Only at odd moments did I have a sense that it was
even Mozart.
I am sure there must be other music that has this effect - what does
this for you?
Andy

- Wagner created the illusion of timelessness—that is, of a musical moment that transcends time...
https://www.firstthings.com/article/2010/12/why-we-cant-hear-wagners-music

The following has been said about the movie APOCALYPSE NOW:

- ...The opening of the film dissolves the boundaries between time and space, as seen from Willard’s damaged point of view...Fantasy and reality have become one.

https://nerdfighteria.info/v/bVMGyXnnoRM/