looking for a word

[a***@gmail.com]

Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard, but learns
almost everything by heart without really understanding much?

Nerds and geeks are usually bright, if I am not mistaken. But is there a word
that describes the kind of student I mentioned.

I have a feeling that I once came across a word that had that meaning and wrote
it down somewhere, but I can't find a trace of it. Maybe it was in a dream!

Gratefully,
Navi

[b***@shaw.ca]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard, but learns
almost everything by heart without really understanding much?
Nerds and geeks are usually bright, if I am not mistaken. But is there a word
that describes the kind of student I mentioned.
it down somewhere, but I can't find a trace of it. Maybe it was in a dream!

I don't think there is a word that meets all of your criteria,
but "plodder" comes closer than anything else in my vocabulary.

bill

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by b***@shaw.ca

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard, but learns
almost everything by heart without really understanding much?
Nerds and geeks are usually bright, if I am not mistaken. But is there a word
that describes the kind of student I mentioned.
it down somewhere, but I can't find a trace of it. Maybe it was in a dream!

I don't think there is a word that meets all of your criteria,
but "plodder" comes closer than anything else in my vocabulary.

Yes, it's certainly better than "overachiever", but I agree that it
isn't perfect.

In my first year as a lecturer at Birmingham there were two students in
the final year who stood out from the crowd. One fitted navi's
description and could remember everything ever written or taught, but
had no great analytical ability. The other was brilliant (and has gone
on to a brilliant research career), but didn't get everything right.
Let us suppose that their names were George Brown and Jenny Smith
respectively (they weren't). In later years when we wanted to
characterize other students we would say things like "he's another
George Brown" or "she's another Jenny Smith". Everyone knew what was
meant and we had no need for a word of the sort navi is seeking.

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden

Post by b***@shaw.ca

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard, but learns
almost everything by heart without really understanding much?
Nerds and geeks are usually bright, if I am not mistaken. But is there a word
that describes the kind of student I mentioned.
it down somewhere, but I can't find a trace of it. Maybe it was in a dream!

I don't think there is a word that meets all of your criteria,
but "plodder" comes closer than anything else in my vocabulary.

Yes, it's certainly better than "overachiever", but I agree that it
isn't perfect.
In my first year as a lecturer at Birmingham there were two students in
the final year who stood out from the crowd. One fitted navi's
description and could remember everything ever written or taught, but
had no great analytical ability. The other was brilliant (and has gone
on to a brilliant research career), but didn't get everything right.
Let us suppose that their names were George Brown and Jenny Smith
respectively (they weren't). In later years when we wanted to
characterize other students we would say things like "he's another
George Brown" or "she's another Jenny Smith". Everyone knew what was
meant and we had no need for a word of the sort navi is seeking.
--
athel

Thank you all very much,

There is a word with that meaning in Persian. They are call 'donkey-readers'.
They read a lot, but like a hard-working donkey. I thought there might be an
exact equivalent in English. 'Plodder' sounds fine. 'Overachiever' doesn't
work. We aren't talking about their achievements, and in theory at least,
they aren't supposed to go too far.

'George Brown' is fine too.

Respectfully,
Navi

[Peter Moylan]

On Thursday, November 28, 2019 at 9:53:07 PM UTC-8,

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard,
but learns almost everything by heart without really understanding
much?
Nerds and geeks are usually bright, if I am not mistaken. But is
there a word that describes the kind of student I mentioned.
I have a feeling that I once came across a word that had that
meaning and wrote it down somewhere, but I can't find a trace of
it. Maybe it was in a dream!

I don't think there is a word that meets all of your criteria, but
"plodder" comes closer than anything else in my vocabulary.

Another possibility, with a different meaning from "plodder", is
"crammer". A crammer memorises great masses of facts, but does not
necessarily organise those facts into a logical system the way a bright
student does. (The bright students see how those facts are
interconnected, so they have less need to memorise.) Cramming is
actually a pretty good strategy for passing exams. The downside is that
the knowledge often evaporates after the exam is over.

Something that always amazed me, as a university lecturer, was how many
students felt that what they had to learn the year before was no longer
relevant. An example that sticks in my mind was when I was teaching
second year electrical circuit theory, and reached the point of
introducing phasors. (A technique that uses complex numbers to represent
AC voltages and currents.) I started my lecture with "Now, I know you
know how to do arithmetic with complex numbers", and then noticed a sea
of blank faces. Nobody, it appears, knew what a complex number was. I
insisted that I'd seen the topic on the first year mathematics syllabus.
Still no response. Then someone said "Oh yes, we did that in Maths 112."
A few others remembered the same thing. But then someone objected "But
that was mathematics, not engineering." Somehow the students had picked
up the idea that Maths 112 was over and done with, and the things learnt
there would never be needed again.

[a***@gmail.com]

Post by Peter Moylan

On Thursday, November 28, 2019 at 9:53:07 PM UTC-8,

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard,
but learns almost everything by heart without really understanding
much?
Nerds and geeks are usually bright, if I am not mistaken. But is
there a word that describes the kind of student I mentioned.
I have a feeling that I once came across a word that had that
meaning and wrote it down somewhere, but I can't find a trace of
it. Maybe it was in a dream!

I don't think there is a word that meets all of your criteria, but
"plodder" comes closer than anything else in my vocabulary.

Another possibility, with a different meaning from "plodder", is
"crammer". A crammer memorises great masses of facts, but does not
necessarily organise those facts into a logical system the way a bright
student does. (The bright students see how those facts are
interconnected, so they have less need to memorise.) Cramming is
actually a pretty good strategy for passing exams. The downside is that
the knowledge often evaporates after the exam is over.
Something that always amazed me, as a university lecturer, was how many
students felt that what they had to learn the year before was no longer
relevant. An example that sticks in my mind was when I was teaching
second year electrical circuit theory, and reached the point of
introducing phasors. (A technique that uses complex numbers to represent
AC voltages and currents.) I started my lecture with "Now, I know you
know how to do arithmetic with complex numbers", and then noticed a sea
of blank faces. Nobody, it appears, knew what a complex number was. I
insisted that I'd seen the topic on the first year mathematics syllabus.
Still no response. Then someone said "Oh yes, we did that in Maths 112."
A few others remembered the same thing. But then someone objected "But
that was mathematics, not engineering." Somehow the students had picked
up the idea that Maths 112 was over and done with, and the things learnt
there would never be needed again.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

Thank you very much, Peter,

To me, cram means to do a lot of learning in a short time. You do intensive
work in a little time. To me, cramming doesn't connote that the learning
was not systematic or that the subject matter was not well-understood, although
I suppose one tends to forget what one has crammed into one's brain a lot
easier than what has been learned gradually.

Engineering students that think they can study engineering without using maths
are a strange breed though.

Gratefully,
Navi

[Peter Moylan]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Engineering students that think they can study engineering without
using maths are a strange breed though.

Every so often, some engineering students would start a campaign over
"relevance". (I don't know whether that still happens.)They wanted to
focus on engineering subjects, and not have to do irrelevant subjects.

The best way to counter that argument, I found, was to introduce them to
some final year students, who were able to assure them that all of that
"irrelevant" mathematics and physics was needed for the advanced
engineering subjects.

[Snidely]

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by a***@gmail.com
Engineering students that think they can study engineering without
using maths are a strange breed though.

Every so often, some engineering students would start a campaign over
"relevance". (I don't know whether that still happens.)They wanted to
focus on engineering subjects, and not have to do irrelevant subjects.
The best way to counter that argument, I found, was to introduce them to
some final year students, who were able to assure them that all of that
"irrelevant" mathematics and physics was needed for the advanced
engineering subjects.

Serendipity needs something to feed on.

/dps

[Jerry Friedman]

On 11/29/19 2:51 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
...

Post by Peter Moylan
Something that always amazed me, as a university lecturer, was how many
students felt that what they had to learn the year before was no longer
relevant. An example that sticks in my mind was when I was teaching
second year electrical circuit theory, and reached the point of
introducing phasors. (A technique that uses complex numbers to represent
AC voltages and currents.) I started my lecture with "Now, I know you
know how to do arithmetic with complex numbers", and then noticed a sea
of blank faces. Nobody, it appears, knew what a complex number was. I
insisted that I'd seen the topic on the first year mathematics syllabus.
Still no response. Then someone said "Oh yes, we did that in Maths 112."
A few others remembered the same thing. But then someone objected "But
that was mathematics, not engineering." Somehow the students had picked
up the idea that Maths 112 was over and done with, and the things learnt
there would never be needed again.

Story of my life. Of course, I have the addition problem that the
students don't think they'll ever need the physics that requires that
math, and some of them are right.

[Joseph C. Fineman]

Post by Jerry Friedman
...

Post by Peter Moylan
Something that always amazed me, as a university lecturer, was how many
students felt that what they had to learn the year before was no longer
relevant. An example that sticks in my mind was when I was teaching
second year electrical circuit theory, and reached the point of
introducing phasors. (A technique that uses complex numbers to represent
AC voltages and currents.) I started my lecture with "Now, I know you
know how to do arithmetic with complex numbers", and then noticed a sea
of blank faces. Nobody, it appears, knew what a complex number was. I
insisted that I'd seen the topic on the first year mathematics syllabus.
Still no response. Then someone said "Oh yes, we did that in Maths 112."
A few others remembered the same thing. But then someone objected "But
that was mathematics, not engineering." Somehow the students had picked
up the idea that Maths 112 was over and done with, and the things learnt
there would never be needed again.

Story of my life. Of course, I have the addition problem that the
students don't think they'll ever need the physics that requires that
math, and some of them are right.

That attitude goes back a long way. Pythagorus (I think it was) taught
that people who behaved extremely stupidly would be reborn as fish,
whereas those of lesser stupidity would be reborn as bird. As examples
of the latter kind, he mentions people who thought they could study
astronomy without learning mathematics.

[Rich Ulrich]

On Fri, 29 Nov 2019 20:51:10 +1100, Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan

On Thursday, November 28, 2019 at 9:53:07 PM UTC-8,

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard,
but learns almost everything by heart without really understanding
much?
Nerds and geeks are usually bright, if I am not mistaken. But is
there a word that describes the kind of student I mentioned.
I have a feeling that I once came across a word that had that
meaning and wrote it down somewhere, but I can't find a trace of
it. Maybe it was in a dream!

I don't think there is a word that meets all of your criteria, but
"plodder" comes closer than anything else in my vocabulary.

Another possibility, with a different meaning from "plodder", is
"crammer". A crammer memorises great masses of facts, but does not
necessarily organise those facts into a logical system the way a bright
student does. (The bright students see how those facts are
interconnected, so they have less need to memorise.) Cramming is
actually a pretty good strategy for passing exams. The downside is that
the knowledge often evaporates after the exam is over.

A "grind" might be similar to a plodder.

A "pedant" could be the person who insists on repeating
what he doesn't understand. If you like tend to like
pedantry, as I do, you will want to insert some adjective
like "ignorant."

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Rich Ulrich
A "pedant" could be the person who insists on repeating
what he doesn't understand. If you like tend to like
pedantry, as I do, you will want to insert some adjective
like "ignorant."

"We have met the enemy, and they are ours."
"You mean we're winning?"
"No, I mean the pedants are revolting."

[Stolen, with a minor change, from The Wizard of Id.]

[Paul Carmichael]

Post by b***@shaw.ca

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard, but learns
almost everything by heart without really understanding much?
Nerds and geeks are usually bright, if I am not mistaken. But is there a word
that describes the kind of student I mentioned.
it down somewhere, but I can't find a trace of it. Maybe it was in a dream!

I don't think there is a word that meets all of your criteria,
but "plodder" comes closer than anything else in my vocabulary.

Student?

[Neill Massello]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard, but learns
almost everything by heart without really understanding much?

Overachiever.

[Spains Harden]

Post by Neill Massello

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard, but learns
almost everything by heart without really understanding much?

Overachiever.

A dogged trier dogged by underachievement.

[Jerry Friedman]

Post by Neill Massello

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard, but learns
almost everything by heart without really understanding much?

Overachiever.

To me an overachiever really does achieve understanding despite not
being all that bright.

[Mack A. Damia]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard, but learns
almost everything by heart without really understanding much?
Nerds and geeks are usually bright, if I am not mistaken. But is there a word
that describes the kind of student I mentioned.
it down somewhere, but I can't find a trace of it. Maybe it was in a dream!

"Sciolist"

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sciolist

[bert]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright,
studies hard, but learns almost everything by heart
without really understanding much?

I read through all the previous answers, but was
surprised that nobody else had suggested "parrot".

[Jerry Friedman]

Post by bert

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright,
studies hard, but learns almost everything by heart
without really understanding much?

I read through all the previous answers, but was
surprised that nobody else had suggested "parrot".

I've encountered things like "So-and-do just parrots what he's been
taught but doesn't understand it," but I don't remember such a person
being called a parrot.

[Madhu]

Post by Jerry Friedman

Post by bert

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright,
studies hard, but learns almost everything by heart
without really understanding much?

I read through all the previous answers, but was
surprised that nobody else had suggested "parrot".

I've encountered things like "So-and-do just parrots what he's been
taught but doesn't understand it," but I don't remember such a person
being called a parrot.

one regional word for this in India is "mugger" - "mug" being committing
to memory without understanding. I've only come across it in my
immediate context though

[Peter Duncanson [BrE]]

Post by Madhu

Post by Jerry Friedman

Post by bert

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright,
studies hard, but learns almost everything by heart
without really understanding much?

I read through all the previous answers, but was
surprised that nobody else had suggested "parrot".

I've encountered things like "So-and-do just parrots what he's been
taught but doesn't understand it," but I don't remember such a person
being called a parrot.

one regional word for this in India is "mugger" - "mug" being committing
to memory without understanding. I've only come across it in my
immediate context though

That may be related to BrE "mug (up)":
https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/mug#h69971360776420

mug 2
verb mugs, mugging, mugged
[with object] informal British "mug something up"

Learn or revise a subject as far as possible in a short time.
‘I'm constantly having to mug up things ahead of teaching them’

no object ‘we had mugged up on all things Venetian before the
start of the course’

‘One has the impression that Greenfield was informed she would be
asked about this period in Freud's early psychoanalytic career, so
she mugged it up from a psychoanalytic source and regurgitated it
as best she could.’

‘Education was more a case of ‘reproduction rather than
application’, with everyone trying to ‘mug it up’, because what
mattered was the not the ability to understand the subject, but to
‘write it down’.’
....

Origin
Mid 19th century of unknown origin.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard,
but learns almost everything by heart without really understanding
much?

I read through all the previous answers, but was surprised that
nobody else had suggested "parrot".

Something that used to amuse but also sadden me was that there were
students who, in an examination, could give a perfect multipage answer
to a question that had not been asked.

I used to think that their reasoning was "I can't answer that question,
but maybe I can get some credit for writing something that I do know."
Looking back on it now, I am more inclined to think that they understood
the subject so poorly that they didn't understand the question.

[Mark Brader]

Post by Peter Moylan
Something that used to amuse but also sadden me was that there were
students who, in an examination, could give a perfect multipage answer
to a question that had not been asked.
I used to think that their reasoning was "I can't answer that question,
but maybe I can get some credit for writing something that I do know."
Looking back on it now, I am more inclined to think that they understood
the subject so poorly that they didn't understand the question.

To paraphrase Sir Humphrey: "I need to give an answer, this is an
answer, so I need to give it."

[Rich Ulrich]

On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 15:38:16 +1100, Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan
Something that used to amuse but also sadden me was that there were
students who, in an examination, could give a perfect multipage answer
to a question that had not been asked.
I used to think that their reasoning was "I can't answer that question,
but maybe I can get some credit for writing something that I do know."
Looking back on it now, I am more inclined to think that they understood
the subject so poorly that they didn't understand the question.

What occurs to me is a harsh way to cure that habit,
i.e., the habit of "faking it" by supplying some odd
answer -- Zero points credit for the question asked,
and additional points off for whatever is wrong in the
essay provided.

That's probably not politically feasible.

[Peter Moylan]

Post by Rich Ulrich
On Sat, 30 Nov 2019 15:38:16 +1100, Peter Moylan

Post by Peter Moylan
Something that used to amuse but also sadden me was that there
were students who, in an examination, could give a perfect
multipage answer to a question that had not been asked.
I used to think that their reasoning was "I can't answer that
question, but maybe I can get some credit for writing something
that I do know." Looking back on it now, I am more inclined to
think that they understood the subject so poorly that they didn't
understand the question.

What occurs to me is a harsh way to cure that habit, i.e., the habit
of "faking it" by supplying some odd answer -- Zero points credit for
the question asked, and additional points off for whatever is wrong
in the essay provided.
That's probably not politically feasible.

I did implement half of that. When encountering stuff that was
irrelevant to the question asked, I just put a red line or a big "I"
through that part. I then graded what was left, if anything.

[Ken Blake]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard, but learns
almost everything by heart without really understanding much?

Yes, I've known several such people. There's not one word for such
people, there are many--the words are their names.

But I don't want to mention their names here, lest they come across my
message.

[Athel Cornish-Bowden]

Post by Ken Blake

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard, but learns
almost everything by heart without really understanding much?

Yes, I've known several such people. There's not one word for such
people, there are many--the words are their names.
But I don't want to mention their names here, lest they come across my message.

That's why I used fake names for my post earlier today.

[b***@aol.com]

Post by a***@gmail.com
Is there a word for someone who is not very bright, studies hard, but learns
almost everything by heart without really understanding much?

Maybe a "swot" or "grind", though the notion of not really understanding
much is only implicit in both.

Post by a***@gmail.com
Nerds and geeks are usually bright, if I am not mistaken. But is there a word
that describes the kind of student I mentioned.
it down somewhere, but I can't find a trace of it. Maybe it was in a dream!
Gratefully,
Navi