[ORG] The Future of PLUG

I am expecting people to respond here - specially those who were once
active. :)

Post by Marvin Pascual
Dear concerned PLUGgers,
As many of you have noticed, PLUG wasn't able to conduct any
organizational event, nor sponsor anyone, for the past 12 months. With
the officers and the Board of Directors only having one fiscal year to
govern as per our constitution, the board has been effectively vacated
as of the first week of December 2006.
As per Article VIII: Board of Directors of the PLUG Constitution,
"The board of directors shall be elected during the general assembly
on the 2nd week of October and shall serve for one (1) fiscal year.
The newly elected board shall effectively start their term of service
on the 1st week of December after a two-month transition from the
outgoing board of directors of the previous fiscal year, and shall end
on the 1st week of December of the next year."
And as per the 6th paragraph of the said article of the PLUG
"In the event that the entire board of directors be vacated, the
remaining members of PLUG shall reconvene via a general assembly to
elect new board members to replace the vacated board in the manner
prescribed for elections during general assemblies."
Technically, all of the board members of last year are effectively
vacated due to this provision, and as of now PLUG has no governing
body that can sanction PLUG activities. However, PLUG can't go on like
this as this would be a disservice to the community it has been
committed to empower.
I'm personally appealing to all if we can proceed with nominating and
electing new board members. While a few of us can make arrangements
for possible venues, we will need your cooperation in planning for a
General Assembly and election of the Board of Directors and its
officers.
FYI, our registration to the SEC is about to cease already. If we
don't act on this, what will be the future of PLUG then? Will it just
remain as a mailing list only? Unless that PLUG will have a set of
officers and Board of Directors and at least 30 members of good
standing, the issue with SEC will not be resolve.
Marvin
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ian sison (mailing list)

2007-10-29 08:32:15 UTC

I think there is a bigger question to ask here.

Back in the day, when linux was new, and not even considered a serious
solution by
the majority of the IT community, PLUG had a serious role - to
evangelize, and to mentor
people into adopting and using Linux and Open Source.

Nowadays, Linux is in the mainstream, although not 100% there yet, the situation
differs a lot from before. People actively now consider Linux as a
viable alternative to
commercial software, more importantly, the pressure of modern day
economics coupled with the
track record of Linux force people to, at the very least consider it.

In this light i think the reason for the lack of interest in
re-organizing PLUG is because
it remains stuck in past issues which have long been resolved. What
is needed is a new
more relevant mission to rally the troops back into the org. A
unifying theme. Is there any?
If there is, i'd suggest that there to be a discussion first about it,
before we go into more activities aimed
at organization.

Ian

Post by Marvin Pascual
Dear concerned PLUGgers,
As many of you have noticed, PLUG wasn't able to conduct any
organizational event, nor sponsor anyone, for the past 12 months. With
the officers and the Board of Directors only having one fiscal year to
govern as per our constitution, the board has been effectively vacated
as of the first week of December 2006.
As per Article VIII: Board of Directors of the PLUG Constitution,
"The board of directors shall be elected during the general assembly
on the 2nd week of October and shall serve for one (1) fiscal year.
The newly elected board shall effectively start their term of service
on the 1st week of December after a two-month transition from the
outgoing board of directors of the previous fiscal year, and shall end
on the 1st week of December of the next year."
"In the event that the entire board of directors be vacated, the
remaining members of PLUG shall reconvene via a general assembly to
elect new board members to replace the vacated board in the manner
prescribed for elections during general assemblies."
Technically, all of the board members of last year are effectively
vacated due to this provision, and as of now PLUG has no governing
body that can sanction PLUG activities. However, PLUG can't go on like
this as this would be a disservice to the community it has been
committed to empower.
I'm personally appealing to all if we can proceed with nominating and
electing new board members. While a few of us can make arrangements
for possible venues, we will need your cooperation in planning for a
General Assembly and election of the Board of Directors and its
officers.
FYI, our registration to the SEC is about to cease already. If we
don't act on this, what will be the future of PLUG then? Will it just
remain as a mailing list only? Unless that PLUG will have a set of
officers and Board of Directors and at least 30 members of good
standing, the issue with SEC will not be resolve.
Marvin
_________________________________________________
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Read the Guidelines: http://linux.org.ph/lists
Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph

rpf list

2007-10-29 08:49:16 UTC

I think PLUG still has the same goal -- educating users about Linux.
Whilst we think that PLUG has done something about this already but I
honestly think that we can do more. Actually, I think PLUG has a
greater call now that people are familiar with Linux.

Post by ian sison (mailing list)
I think there is a bigger question to ask here.
Back in the day, when linux was new, and not even considered a serious
solution by
the majority of the IT community, PLUG had a serious role - to
evangelize, and to mentor
people into adopting and using Linux and Open Source.
Nowadays, Linux is in the mainstream, although not 100% there yet, the situation
differs a lot from before. People actively now consider Linux as a
viable alternative to
commercial software, more importantly, the pressure of modern day
economics coupled with the
track record of Linux force people to, at the very least consider it.
In this light i think the reason for the lack of interest in
re-organizing PLUG is because
it remains stuck in past issues which have long been resolved. What
is needed is a new
more relevant mission to rally the troops back into the org. A
unifying theme. Is there any?
If there is, i'd suggest that there to be a discussion first about it,
before we go into more activities aimed
at organization.
Ian

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ian sison (mailing list)

2007-10-29 09:44:25 UTC

Post by rpf list
I think PLUG still has the same goal -- educating users about Linux.
Whilst we think that PLUG has done something about this already but I
honestly think that we can do more. Actually, I think PLUG has a
greater call now that people are familiar with Linux.

Any specifics?

Training programs are already available commercially, and Linux and
Open Source is already being taught as part of the core curriculums in
major universities. Many commercial IT Vendors already offer training
programs to their clients as part of the standard services they
provide. There is tremendous growth in the adoption of OSS-based
scripting languages, and databases like the LAMP stack.

What other things can we do that are not already offered by others?
Or should we just be one among many?
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rpf list

2007-10-29 09:50:38 UTC

PLUG can go deeper by providing help to primary and secondary schools
-- those who cannot afford getting trained by companies.

Another is to beef up the FOSS contributions by providing more
technical training to pave the way for Filipinos to join FOSS
projects. It is one thing for them to teach how to use FOSS and
another to actually contribute.

PLUG can still provide technical support at a more affordable rates
compared to other companies.

Any specifics?
Training programs are already available commercially, and Linux and
Open Source is already being taught as part of the core curriculums in
major universities. Many commercial IT Vendors already offer training
programs to their clients as part of the standard services they
provide. There is tremendous growth in the adoption of OSS-based
scripting languages, and databases like the LAMP stack.
What other things can we do that are not already offered by others?
Or should we just be one among many?
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Gabriel H. Mercado

2007-10-29 09:50:54 UTC

I apologize if I am speaking out of place, but I'd like if I may to share my
two cents worth.

I had always been curious what PLUG's mandate was, and I remember (sort of)
asking active members what it was. Obviously it had always been to educate
and spread Linux love, but as per the specifics I had always felt it was
rather vague on that.

I agree with Ian Sison re the need to review what PLUG's mission is. If in
fact PLUG's mission is redundant, or that it has managed to serve its
purpose, there shouldn't be any problem rescinding it. If however as rpf
list says there is a greater call for it, then the hows and whys of that
should be established as well.

If if PLUG is to continue, I would like to suggest that it list specifics of
what it's mission is, and a step by step path towards achieving it. Again I
think I'm being bold saying this, having had little to do with PLUG ever,
but when I read Martin's post I realized this is the best time to say it.

thanks guys
Gary

Post by Marvin Pascual
Dear concerned PLUGgers,
As many of you have noticed, PLUG wasn't able to conduct any
organizational event, nor sponsor anyone, for the past 12 months. With
the officers and the Board of Directors only having one fiscal year to
govern as per our constitution, the board has been effectively vacated
as of the first week of December 2006.
As per Article VIII: Board of Directors of the PLUG Constitution,
"The board of directors shall be elected during the general assembly
on the 2nd week of October and shall serve for one (1) fiscal year.
The newly elected board shall effectively start their term of service
on the 1st week of December after a two-month transition from the
outgoing board of directors of the previous fiscal year, and shall end
on the 1st week of December of the next year."
"In the event that the entire board of directors be vacated, the
remaining members of PLUG shall reconvene via a general assembly to
elect new board members to replace the vacated board in the manner
prescribed for elections during general assemblies."
Technically, all of the board members of last year are effectively
vacated due to this provision, and as of now PLUG has no governing
body that can sanction PLUG activities. However, PLUG can't go on like
this as this would be a disservice to the community it has been
committed to empower.
I'm personally appealing to all if we can proceed with nominating and
electing new board members. While a few of us can make arrangements
for possible venues, we will need your cooperation in planning for a
General Assembly and election of the Board of Directors and its
officers.
FYI, our registration to the SEC is about to cease already. If we
don't act on this, what will be the future of PLUG then? Will it just
remain as a mailing list only? Unless that PLUG will have a set of
officers and Board of Directors and at least 30 members of good
standing, the issue with SEC will not be resolve.
Marvin
_________________________________________________
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Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph

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rpf list

2007-10-29 10:06:29 UTC

I think first and foremost, a User Group is there to assist/help its
users - either newbies or veterans. That is the primary objective of
a User Group - at least this is what I believe the objective is.

Take the case of a Mac User Group - it does not change its mandate
because more people are using it. It extends its arms in helping its
members figure out how best to use a Mac. It goes beyond what is a
simple venue for tech support to more specialized avenues such as
teaching how to use a Mac in education, in research, in multimedia,
etc. The objective still remains - to help its members.

Now, I do not know why PLUG has to be any different. It is there to
help its users. Whilst it may be true that Linux and FOSS are already
being taught in schools but, for example, have you even thought of
teaching teachers how to use Linux and FOSS in their classroom? This
is not the same as just giving them a brief tutorial - it goes even
deeper, i.e., teaching them how to INTEGRATE Linux and FOSS in their
curriculum, in their lesson plans. Believe me, we are just seeing the
tip of the proverbial iceberg here.

Most commercial IT companies simply teach you how to use Linux and
how to manage Linux servers but that is about it. Do they teach you
how to specifically use it in multimedia production? medical practice?

I think with PLUG's diverse membership, we can still provide more value.

Prof. Rom Feria, UP Diliman
LPI-certified LPI Exam Proctor

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Pablo Manalastas

2007-10-29 15:48:29 UTC

Post by ian sison (mailing list)
In this light i think the reason for the lack of
interest in
re-organizing PLUG is because
it remains stuck in past issues which have long been
resolved.

One of the reasons why PLUG was organized was to
popularize the use of Linux. Is Linux in popular use
today? I do not think so. Among the hundreds of
students and faculty who bring laptops to school
(Ateneo) only one teacher (me) and one student (James
Choa) run Linux on their laptops. Our general student
labs dual boot WinXP/Linux, and what is in use most of
the time? WinXP. Of the 60 PCs used during the
DLS-Canlubang Philippine Inter-Collegiate Programming
Contest, all 60 PCs were running WinXP, except one -
the Fedora server. Why do you think the BSA raided UPD
and the UP Shopping Center this year? Because they
were using WinXP, and not the officially announced UP
OS - Linux. How much are Ateneo and DLSU-Manila paying
for Windows site licenses? They are paying millions
of pesos!

For this reason alone, we must not allow PLUG to die.
Sayang ang nakaraang paghihirap natin. Yun lang.

Pablo Manalastas

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Peter Gaston

2007-10-30 01:18:32 UTC

Post by ian sison (mailing list)
In this light i think the reason for the lack of
interest in
re-organizing PLUG is because
it remains stuck in past issues which have long been
resolved. What
is needed is a new
more relevant mission to rally the troops back into
the org. A
unifying theme. Is there any?
If there is, i'd suggest that there to be a
discussion first about it,
before we go into more activities aimed
at organization.

I think we shouldn't overlook the technical aspects of
promoting PLUG. For example PLUG doesn't have its own
web site, linux.org.ph redirects to the mailing list
host. So I'm not surprised if people think PLUG is
list only! Why not invite all the people who have
signed up for the mailing list and ask if they want to
join the real world PLUG?

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Robert DC. Reyes, mcp

2007-10-30 01:34:14 UTC

The Zope-based website then is really nice.

brgds,
Bob Reyes

Post by Peter Gaston

I think we shouldn't overlook the technical aspects of
promoting PLUG. For example PLUG doesn't have its own
web site, linux.org.ph redirects to the mailing list
host. So I'm not surprised if people think PLUG is
list only! Why not invite all the people who have
signed up for the mailing list and ask if they want to
join the real world PLUG?
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Elijah Alcantara

2007-10-30 04:05:59 UTC

I always get redirected myself... what did happen to it?

Elijah

Post by Robert DC. Reyes, mcp
The Zope-based website then is really nice.
brgds,
Bob Reyes

Post by Peter Gaston

I think we shouldn't overlook the technical aspects of
promoting PLUG. For example PLUG doesn't have its own
web site, linux.org.ph redirects to the mailing list
host. So I'm not surprised if people think PLUG is
list only! Why not invite all the people who have
signed up for the mailing list and ask if they want to
join the real world PLUG?
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Federico Sevilla III

2007-10-30 05:05:47 UTC

Post by Elijah Alcantara
I always get redirected myself... what did happen to it?

Post by Robert DC. Reyes, mcp
The Zope-based website then is really nice.

Plone broke when the server was upgraded from Sarge to Etch on 20 May
2007, and all efforts to restore it to date have been unsuccessful. This
was, of course, reported to the PLUG-Board website and a separate effort
led by Paolo Falcone to port the website to Joomla (?) was initiated,
but has unfortunately not progressed.

I'm willing to set up Joomla on the server, but don't have the time to
set up the content and the look. Would appreciate volunteer pledges to
work on this so we can evaluate if it's the correct way to go.

The website's URL is being redirected to the mailing list page so that
at least there's a starting point for most people. I'm sure you'll agree
that it's much better than getting some generic error.

Thanks.

--
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F S 3 Consulting Inc.
http://www.fs3.ph

Ariz Jacinto

2007-10-30 05:13:02 UTC

afaik, it's Drupal. some of us offered to help out but Paolo informed
me that two guys of a certain local startup company is already
handling the migration (6month-ish ago?).

.... a separate effort led by Paolo Falcone to port the website to Joomla
(?) was initiated,
but has unfortunately not progressed.

....

j***@public.gmane.org

2007-10-30 11:13:52 UTC

Have anyone seen the MySQL academy? Maybe PLUG can have one like that.

http://forge.mysql.com/wiki/MySQL_University

anyone with internet access can join and they won't have to travel.

From: plug-bounces-cunTk1MwBs8iFSDQTTA3ONd+***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:plug-bounces-cunTk1MwBs8iFSDQTTA3ONd+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Ariz Jacinto
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 1:13 AM
To: Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Technical Discussion List
Subject: [SPAM] - Re: [plug] [ORG] The Future of PLUG - Email found in
subject

afaik, it's Drupal. some of us offered to help out but Paolo informed
me that two guys of a certain local startup company is already
handling the migration (6month-ish ago?).

On Oct 29, 2007 9:05 PM, Federico Sevilla III <jijo-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:

.... a separate effort led by Paolo Falcone to port the website to
Joomla (?) was initiated,
but has unfortunately not progressed.

....

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2007-10-30 13:30:31 UTC

Wow I didn't know MySQL hosted such programs. Great idea man.

- -- Ed <Hacking in S5 presentations into Instiki>

Post by j***@public.gmane.org
Have anyone seen the MySQL academy? Maybe PLUG can have one like that.
http://forge.mysql.com/wiki/MySQL_University
anyone with internet access can join and they won't have to travel.

Holden Hao

2007-10-30 11:13:07 UTC

Post by Federico Sevilla III
Plone broke when the server was upgraded from Sarge to Etch on 20 May
2007, and all efforts to restore it to date have been unsuccessful. This
was, of course, reported to the PLUG-Board website and a separate effort
led by Paolo Falcone to port the website to Joomla (?) was initiated,
but has unfortunately not progressed.

Can I have a copy of the Data.fs? I'll try upgrading it. I also need
a list of installed products.

Thanks.

Holden
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Junn Flores

2007-10-31 04:12:26 UTC

Hi Jijo,

Can I also have a copy?

Thanks.

-Junn-

Post by Holden Hao

Can I have a copy of the Data.fs? I'll try upgrading it. I also need
a list of installed products.
Thanks.
Holden
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PG-13

2007-10-31 02:32:59 UTC

Post by Federico Sevilla III
The website's URL is being redirected to the mailing list page
so that at least there's a starting point for most people.
I'm sure you'll agree that it's much better than getting some
generic error.

How about setting up a page saying the site is temporarily down
followed by a link straight to the PLUG list. The redirect to
lists.hosting.qsr.com.ph is a bit confusing since there are
several lists to choose from.

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Louie Miranda

2007-10-31 04:03:34 UTC

All along.. I thought, PLUG had progressed already.
But, after reading Marvin Pascual's email. I am shocked!

After a year or two na-form ung PLUG, naging lurker na lang ako.

Well, change is good. BTW, may isa pa akong nakikitang Linux User Group sa
tipidpc.com. I believe they're active. Mostly, owners nang internet cafe ata
dun. And ung iba taga dito din sa PLUG.

IMO, may isa dapat na mag lead to organize again this group. We can all just
talk, but if no one will lead. We're still dead in the water.

--
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http://www.axishift.com

Security Is A Series Of Well-Defined Steps
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Junn Flores

2007-10-31 04:23:54 UTC

I always thought the PLUG ID would make some start.
It will somehow give some people like a sense of belonging.

And it may be used to give members access to some services which some
people may come up with. I have some in mind.

It may or may not do little but it still will be a lot better than nothing.

BTW, the IDs are still with me waiting to be printed. Just waiting for a
cue.

Post by Louie Miranda
All along.. I thought, PLUG had progressed already.
But, after reading Marvin Pascual's email. I am shocked!
After a year or two na-form ung PLUG, naging lurker na lang ako.
Well, change is good. BTW, may isa pa akong nakikitang Linux User
Group sa tipidpc.com <http://tipidpc.com>. I believe they're active.
Mostly, owners nang internet cafe ata dun. And ung iba taga dito din
sa PLUG.
IMO, may isa dapat na mag lead to organize again this group. We can
all just talk, but if no one will lead. We're still dead in the water.
--
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Security Is A Series Of Well-Defined Steps
chmod -R 0 / ; and smile :)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Orlando Andico

2007-10-31 05:40:11 UTC

plastics!
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Regie H. Saberon

2007-10-31 05:54:05 UTC

I'm new to this lists. How can I avail the PLUG ID's?

-----Original Message-----
From: plug-bounces-cunTk1MwBs8iFSDQTTA3ONd+***@public.gmane.org [mailto:plug-bounces-cunTk1MwBs8iFSDQTTA3ONd+***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Junn Flores
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:24 PM
To: Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Technical Discussion List
Subject: Re: [plug] [ORG] The Future of PLUG

I always thought the PLUG ID would make some start.
It will somehow give some people like a sense of belonging.

And it may be used to give members access to some services which some people may come up with. I have some in mind.

It may or may not do little but it still will be a lot better than nothing.

BTW, the IDs are still with me waiting to be printed. Just waiting for a cue.

Roger Filomeno

2007-10-31 07:16:38 UTC

How about PLUG helping other start up groups? Like ROR and PHP. Our org PHP
User Groups PH is conducting weekly technical meetings since last month and
we were able to secure StratPoint to sponsor, I think PHJUG and PHROR group
is also being sponsored. However when it comes to larger events, we don't
have enough sponsors unlike PLUG who has already involved itself with the
Yearly FOSS conferences.

So other than just advocating Linux which, i believe, is already in
mainstream. What about Linux-PHP, Linux-ROR and Linux-Java? All three
languages run across many OS but if we can convince to have developers use
Linux as base for development then its something to do. Just following what
M$ does after Windows went mainstream with VB and dotNet ^_^

Anyway Im just beating around the bush here hoping it may instill some
ideas.

HTH

Post by Regie H. Saberon
I'm new to this lists. How can I avail the PLUG ID's?
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:24 PM
To: Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Technical Discussion List
Subject: Re: [plug] [ORG] The Future of PLUG
I always thought the PLUG ID would make some start.
It will somehow give some people like a sense of belonging.
And it may be used to give members access to some services which some
people may come up with. I have some in mind.
It may or may not do little but it still will be a lot better than nothing.
BTW, the IDs are still with me waiting to be printed. Just waiting for a cue.

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Gabriel H. Mercado

2007-10-31 08:48:09 UTC

so where are we going with all of this?

I propose we either meet up or if that'll keep the ones overseas out of the
loop, use some sort of web service to share ideas and stuff (ok I'm starting
to sound like an ad for a social networking site). Again I apologize if I'm
being too forward but I do wanna help see this through.

BTW I have an idea re how PLUG can become relevant too: I'd like PLUG to
have some sort of web service aimed at helping OEM computer manufacturers
aka computer stores and / or net cafes. These guys are aching to offer
alternatives for Win to their customers and helping them out will in turn
spread Linux to their customers as well. Initially all we need do is offer a
set of YM (or other instant messenger - doesn't matter) identities for them
to contact whenever they have probs. In return, since these are businesses,
we have a ready set of people to ask sponsorship from.

In other words, we need each other, it is immediately doable with little to
no financing needed and promises a win-win situation.

Gary

Post by Roger Filomeno
How about PLUG helping other start up groups? Like ROR and PHP. Our org
PHP User Groups PH is conducting weekly technical meetings since last month
and we were able to secure StratPoint to sponsor, I think PHJUG and PHROR
group is also being sponsored. However when it comes to larger events, we
don't have enough sponsors unlike PLUG who has already involved itself with
the Yearly FOSS conferences.
So other than just advocating Linux which, i believe, is already in
mainstream. What about Linux-PHP, Linux-ROR and Linux-Java? All three
languages run across many OS but if we can convince to have developers use
Linux as base for development then its something to do. Just following what
M$ does after Windows went mainstream with VB and dotNet ^_^
Anyway Im just beating around the bush here hoping it may instill some
ideas.
HTH

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Jaime Tiongson

2007-10-31 10:16:05 UTC

I haven't reviewed yet SEC papers of PLUG. Is PLUG a non-stock, non-profit
organization?

Jaime

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
so where are we going with all of this?
I propose we either meet up or if that'll keep the ones overseas out of
the loop, use some sort of web service to share ideas and stuff (ok I'm
starting to sound like an ad for a social networking site). Again I
apologize if I'm being too forward but I do wanna help see this through.
BTW I have an idea re how PLUG can become relevant too: I'd like PLUG to
have some sort of web service aimed at helping OEM computer manufacturers
aka computer stores and / or net cafes. These guys are aching to offer
alternatives for Win to their customers and helping them out will in turn
spread Linux to their customers as well. Initially all we need do is offer a
set of YM (or other instant messenger - doesn't matter) identities for them
to contact whenever they have probs. In return, since these are businesses,
we have a ready set of people to ask sponsorship from.
In other words, we need each other, it is immediately doable with little
to no financing needed and promises a win-win situation.
Gary

water.

Post by Louie Miranda
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Junn Flores

2008-04-03 01:53:36 UTC

Guys,

Any update re PLUG IDs? It has been around 2 years now since I proposed
finishing this. And I did what was asked of me. It has been taking
really long and it is really unfair to those who paid for it, especially
those who paid VERY long ago. I really do not understand the need for
the delay. Some may not agree for its need but many paid for it and
it's a responsibility to have it finished.

I have enough member details with me to get this rolling.
Could we just process the first batch to be fair and then consider the
politics for the succeeding ones?

Maybe some regulars and trusted voices for the organization could give
this a go?

Forgive me for sounding impatient but it's really unfair for the others
and no one seems to be addressing this.

Regards,

-Junn-

----------------------------
"We need to understand others rather than judge them. In this way, we
will be able to live in harmony with each other. Whatever one does to
someone, there's always an explanation."
----------------------------

Gabriel H. Mercado

2008-04-03 02:31:16 UTC

Hi Junn I will address this issue in the following days. The website is up
and I will be making an announcement by the weekend.

Thank you
Gabriel Mercado

Post by Junn Flores
Guys,
Any update re PLUG IDs? It has been around 2 years now since I proposed
finishing this. And I did what was asked of me. It has been taking really
long and it is really unfair to those who paid for it, especially those who
paid VERY long ago. I really do not understand the need for the delay. Some
may not agree for its need but many paid for it and it's a responsibility to
have it finished.
I have enough member details with me to get this rolling. Could we just
process the first batch to be fair and then consider the politics for the
succeeding ones?
Maybe some regulars and trusted voices for the organization could give
this a go?
Forgive me for sounding impatient but it's really unfair for the others
and no one seems to be addressing this.
Regards,
-Junn-
----------------------------
"We need to understand others rather than judge them. In this way, we
will be able to live in harmony with each other. Whatever one does to
someone, there's always an explanation."
----------------------------
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Ariz Jacinto

2007-10-31 17:29:35 UTC

Hi Junn,

what's stopping you from printing those IDs? signature of approval or
something substantial? :)

Post by Junn Flores
.....
BTW, the IDs are still with me waiting to be printed. Just waiting for a
cue.

Junix Gaspar

2007-11-01 16:11:41 UTC

Post by Ariz Jacinto
Hi Junn,
what's stopping you from printing those IDs? signature of approval or
something substantial? :)

Post by Junn Flores
.....
BTW, the IDs are still with me waiting to be printed. Just waiting for a
cue.

Is this the same ID I paid for in UP 4 years ago? If it is, my God!

Kelsey Hartigan Go

2007-10-30 15:31:00 UTC

Post by ian sison (mailing list)
I think there is a bigger question to ask here.
In this light i think the reason for the lack of interest in
re-organizing PLUG is because
it remains stuck in past issues which have long been resolved. What
is needed is a new
more relevant mission to rally the troops back into the org. A
unifying theme. Is there any?
If there is, i'd suggest that there to be a discussion first about it,
before we go into more activities aimed
at organization.

PLUG...the Next Generation. (students, experimenters to the mainstream)

PLUG ... Enterprise....(used in the Enterprise)

PLUG ... Warp Speed...

I guess PLUG now has to address the use of Linux in the Enterprise. Quite a
few companies have gone to use Linux for mission critical applications. I
think that's PLUG's next niche...

That's one of the reason why I never ever wanted to form a formal group ...
but since it's there, it's there.
Don't take me wrong...I do appreciate that PLUG has changed into a
structured organization, but to get a formal group going, you need dedicated
people, sys ads, people who experiment, but geeks (no insult intended) are
not that kind of people. -- I mean dedicated to administrative...they'd
rather sit and stare at the monitor than stare at other geeks'
faces...unless there some pretty faces...B-)

--
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Registered Linux user #5998

Holden Hao

2007-10-31 00:50:28 UTC

Post by Kelsey Hartigan Go
That's one of the reason why I never ever wanted to form a formal group ...
but since it's there, it's there.
Don't take me wrong...I do appreciate that PLUG has changed into a
structured organization, but to get a formal group going, you need dedicated
people, sys ads, people who experiment, but geeks (no insult intended) are
not that kind of people. -- I mean dedicated to administrative...they'd

This is somewhat true and I am frustrated that you can't even bother
some board members to make decisions and vote with a "yes" or a "no"
to resolutions submitted via the board list. However, I believe that
with a structured organization PLUG can achieve more and grow from
just being a mailing list.

I believe that to make PLUG grow, we need a professional management
team to manage its operations. PLUG can function as an NGO and manage
its day to day operations and projects (FOSS conferences, advocacies,
boot camps, etc.) . However, the management team needs to be paid.
The organization needs to be able to get seed funding in order to
establish its foundation. This can be done through donations,
sponsorships, or through an income generating activity. The only
problem we have now is that who can spare the time to do all this at
the start.

Holden
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Roberto Verzola

2007-10-31 01:20:35 UTC

I've been working with NGOs for years. The board need not be paid staff. You
just need one paid person doing all the admin/secretariat stuff. The rest can
continue to work as volunteers.

Regards to all,

Obet Verzola

Post by Holden Hao

Post by Kelsey Hartigan Go
That's one of the reason why I never ever wanted to form a formal group
... but since it's there, it's there.
Don't take me wrong...I do appreciate that PLUG has changed into a
structured organization, but to get a formal group going, you need
dedicated people, sys ads, people who experiment, but geeks (no insult
intended) are not that kind of people. -- I mean dedicated to
administrative...they'd

This is somewhat true and I am frustrated that you can't even bother
some board members to make decisions and vote with a "yes" or a "no"
to resolutions submitted via the board list. However, I believe that
with a structured organization PLUG can achieve more and grow from
just being a mailing list.
I believe that to make PLUG grow, we need a professional management
team to manage its operations. PLUG can function as an NGO and manage
its day to day operations and projects (FOSS conferences, advocacies,
boot camps, etc.) . However, the management team needs to be paid.
The organization needs to be able to get seed funding in order to
establish its foundation. This can be done through donations,
sponsorships, or through an income generating activity. The only
problem we have now is that who can spare the time to do all this at
the start.
Holden
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Holden Hao

2007-10-31 01:39:43 UTC

Post by Roberto Verzola
I've been working with NGOs for years. The board need not be paid staff. You
just need one paid person doing all the admin/secretariat stuff. The rest can
continue to work as volunteers.

I did not say the board needs to be paid in my email. But I am in the
opinion that they should be given honorariums just like in the
corporate world. However, that is a different matter and not in the
best interest of PLUG right now. It can be an option in the future
though. What I suggested was that the staff working for the
organization be paid staff and that includes an executive director.

Holden
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Ariz Jacinto

2007-10-31 02:36:51 UTC

funding would follow if any organization have a clear mission/roadmap
that other individuals/organizations believes in and might support.

... But I am in the opinion that they should be given honorariums just
like in the
corporate world. However, that is a different matter and not in the
best interest of PLUG right now. It can be an option in the future
though. What I suggested was that the staff working for the
organization be paid staff and that includes an executive director.
.....

Carlos Yu

2007-11-03 06:06:56 UTC

Post by Ariz Jacinto
funding would follow if any organization have a clear mission/roadmap
that other individuals/organizations believes in and might support.

I agree. We are all passionate about FOSS and Linux and there seems to
be enough people in PLUG to generate funding. Personally, I wouldn't
mind paying an annual membership fee to join PLUG as long as the
activities are interesting. Speakers, writers, tech materials etc...,
can be funded, first and foremost by members, and secondary through
sponsorship.

Check out the BMW club of the Philippines:
http://p196.ezboard.com/bbmwclubph. The membership fee alone is enough
to sustain it. The activities are the right fit for Bimmer aficionados
which is why they don't mind paying the annual fee.

I also recall, in the early nineties, paying for membership (20 USD
annually) to join the C++ SIG (special interest groups) in New York. We
would get together one evening a week for a lecture or tutorial
session. The venue was sponsored by NYU/Columbia etc..., while
materials were paid for from the membership fee. Walk-ins would only
have to pay 5 dollars to attend any session they were interested in.
The only thing members had to pay additional for was beers after each
lecture. It was around the time when the C++ standards were being
finalized and the C++ SIG would invite commercial software developers,
hackers and compiler designers who were also part of the C++
standardization board. It was well worth the 20 bucks I shelled out.

Most of the time, you really do get what you pay for. Funding from
membership fees will allow PLUG to pay the fair rate for the best
FOSS/Linux people to generate interesting and relevant activities.

Post by Ariz Jacinto
... But I am in the opinion that they should be given honorariums
just like in the
corporate world. However, that is a different matter and not in the
best interest of PLUG right now. It can be an option in the future
though. What I suggested was that the staff working for the
organization be paid staff and that includes an executive director.
.....
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PG-13

2007-11-03 21:08:37 UTC

Post by Carlos Yu
We are all passionate about FOSS and Linux and there
seems to be enough people in PLUG to generate funding.
Personally, I wouldn't mind paying an annual membership
fee to join PLUG as long as the activities are interesting.
Speakers, writers, tech materials etc..., can be funded,
first and foremost by members, and secondary through
sponsorship.
http://p196.ezboard.com/bbmwclubph. The membership fee alone
is enough to sustain it. The activities are the right fit
for Bimmer aficionados which is why they don't mind paying
the annual fee.

I'm pretty sure the members of the BMW club are all
multimillionaires. I'm not sure about PLUG. Also the BMW club
isn't an advocacy group. The target of the BMW club is limited
to the members. This differs from PLUG whose goal if I'm not
mistaken is to spread knowledge or advocate Linux and other free
and open source software to other people.

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Daniel Escasa

2007-11-03 23:26:35 UTC

Post by PG-13

Regardless, the BMW Club *can* serve as a model. Obviously, PLUG can't
charge the same membership fees, but the important thing is to fund
activities to give the members their money's worth.
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Peter Gaston

2007-11-04 00:12:53 UTC

Post by Daniel Escasa

Post by PG-13

Regardless, the BMW Club *can* serve as a model. Obviously, PLUG can't
charge the same membership fees, but the important thing is to fund
activities to give the members their money's worth.

It depends on what PLUG wants to focus on. If it's purely technical
then membership fees maybe enough. Maybe this mailing list is enough.
However if the focus is on the promotion of Linux then it might be
better to adapt the NGO model where a significant part of the operating
expenses is done through fund-raising activities or contributions by non-members.

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Mhac Janapin

2007-11-04 00:29:03 UTC

My 2 cents worth:
1) Let's convene A.S.A.P.
2) Let's elect Board Members
3) Let's elect Other officers
4) Let's reconvene. Agenda: ConCom
5) Let's work.
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Gabriel H. Mercado

2007-11-04 01:27:45 UTC

Yeah I agree. Let's meet. Even if it doesn't produce anything. Even if it
fails, really.

I understand Ian Sison's and the rest's hesitation given the amount of work
and difficulties previous boards had faced. But we gotta try, man. It serves
us even less if we don't. Let's all give it our best shot and if it doesn't
work out, so what? We can find solace in the fact that we tried.

Gary

Post by Mhac Janapin
1) Let's convene A.S.A.P.
2) Let's elect Board Members
3) Let's elect Other officers
4) Let's reconvene. Agenda: ConCom
5) Let's work.
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Orlando Andico

2007-11-04 04:32:09 UTC

I think one of the major points of interest (given all the posts on
the list) is for PLUG to have some sort of formal training program.

And I'm not talking about freebies. Yes, freebies are fine, but it's
difficult to motivate your trainers if it's all the spirit of
volunteerism.

There are a lot of Johnny-come-lately training outfits offering Linux
training at exorbitant rates. PLUG has a very deep skills pool and can
probably cough up more qualified trainers if we tried. (of course,
those PLUG members who have an interest in training outfits would
probably disagree.)

I certainly see a place for both free-as-in-beer training, and more
"serious" for-money training. Maybe hook up with the LPI certification
guys too at the end of it.
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Paolo Alexis Falcone

2007-11-04 09:05:42 UTC

Post by Mhac Janapin
1) Let's convene A.S.A.P.
2) Let's elect Board Members
3) Let's elect Other officers
4) Let's reconvene. Agenda: ConCom
5) Let's work.

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Jaime Tiongson

2007-11-04 09:08:44 UTC

Post by Paolo Alexis Falcone

What kind of SEC registration do we have? non-stock non-profit?

Jaime

Post by Mhac Janapin
1) Let's convene A.S.A.P.
2) Let's elect Board Members
3) Let's elect Other officers
4) Let's reconvene. Agenda: ConCom
5) Let's work.

I agree. I can post a copy (HTML na, instead of a PDF) of our
constitution, and see what can we do (from nominations to elections).
Kailangan talaga masolve ito very soon before we lose our SEC
registration
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Christian Masancay

2007-11-04 13:27:38 UTC

Post by Paolo Alexis Falcone

Good evening,

PLUG's SEC registration is for a non-profit (still needs accreditation
to avail tax exemptions) and non-stock corporation.

Christian Masancay

Post by Jaime Tiongson
What kind of SEC registration do we have? non-stock non-profit?
Jaime

Post by Mhac Janapin
1) Let's convene A.S.A.P.
2) Let's elect Board Members
3) Let's elect Other officers
4) Let's reconvene. Agenda: ConCom
5) Let's work.

--
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jumbz tayamen

2007-11-05 02:19:08 UTC

may I also add that a lot of mailing list subscribers are not PLUG
members. If PLUG can translate mailing list subscription into actual
memberships (lower down membership fees?)
it might also plug the PLUG financial deficit. (no pun intended)

Aside from paid training, PLUG can also do paid consulting. Although a
lot of members are already doing this, and most would disagree.

Also, PLUG can be the medium for job placement, with whom head hunting
firms can tap to provide linux-oriented sysads/netads/IT people. Of
course, PLUG should be paid fees for that too.

PLUG needs an Executive Director.

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Orlando Andico

2007-11-05 02:25:15 UTC

The problem with "official" membership is that it's a huge hassle to
pay the dues! it's not the amount of the due itself, it's our
"Valuable Free Time" being taken up by something so pedestrian as
paying some dues.

Re: paid consulting: bad idea, too much conflicts of interest.

Re: job placement: well a "PLUG HR database" might not be such a bad
idea. It can be something as simple as having a "PLUG" LinkedIn
profile and anybody who wants to be linked to that profile (and whom
someone can write a testimonial for...) can be included.

Post by jumbz tayamen
may I also add that a lot of mailing list subscribers are not PLUG
members. If PLUG can translate mailing list subscription into actual
memberships (lower down membership fees?)
it might also plug the PLUG financial deficit. (no pun intended)
Aside from paid training, PLUG can also do paid consulting. Although a
lot of members are already doing this, and most would disagree.
Also, PLUG can be the medium for job placement, with whom head hunting
firms can tap to provide linux-oriented sysads/netads/IT people. Of
course, PLUG should be paid fees for that too.
PLUG needs an Executive Director.

John Homer H Alvero

2007-11-05 05:45:18 UTC

Post by Orlando Andico
Re: job placement: well a "PLUG HR database" might not be such a bad
idea. It can be something as simple as having a "PLUG" LinkedIn
profile and anybody who wants to be linked to that profile (and whom
someone can write a testimonial for...) can be included.

Sounds like a great idea to me -- and maybe a bit of Open Social[1]

[1] http://code.google.com/apis/opensocial/
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Louie Miranda

2007-11-05 05:47:53 UTC

Post by John Homer H Alvero

plug.com.ph/members/<id here>

look at philweavers.net

Sounds like a great idea to me -- and maybe a bit of Open Social[1]
[1] http://code.google.com/apis/opensocial/
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John Homer H Alvero

2007-11-05 06:37:59 UTC

Post by John Homer H Alvero

Post by Louie Miranda
plug.com.ph/members/<id here>
look at philweavers.net

Sounds like a great idea to me -- and maybe a bit of Open Social[1]
[1] http://code.google.com/apis/opensocial/
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John Homer H Alvero

2007-11-05 06:39:28 UTC

Post by John Homer H Alvero

Or profiles.linux.org.ph, but we have to resolve the membership first
and the ID, since only legitimate member should have access to
profiles.

Post by Louie Miranda
plug.com.ph/members/<id here>
look at philweavers.net

Sounds like a great idea to me -- and maybe a bit of Open Social[1]
[1] http://code.google.com/apis/opensocial/
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Daniel Escasa

2007-11-05 08:43:23 UTC

Post by Orlando Andico
The problem with "official" membership is that it's a huge hassle to
pay the dues! it's not the amount of the due itself, it's our
"Valuable Free Time" being taken up by something so pedestrian as
paying some dues.

But the Internet has made paying hassle-free nowadays. Philippine
PayPal account holders can now receive money, so that's one option.
--
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independent IT consultant and writer
contributor, Free Software Magazine (http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com)
personal blog at http://descasa.i.ph
If we choose being kind over being right, we will be right every time.
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Orlando Andico

2007-11-05 08:45:37 UTC

I didn't say online payment is unavailable, just that historically it
has been unavailable for PLUG membership dues.

Post by Daniel Escasa

But the Internet has made paying hassle-free nowadays. Philippine
PayPal account holders can now receive money, so that's one option.

Jaime Tiongson

2007-11-05 10:04:47 UTC

I hope the problem will be resolved soon. New Non-stock, non-profit
corporation needs 1 Million paid up capital. It will be very difficult for
the group to raise 1 Million and re-register again.

Post by Orlando Andico
I didn't say online payment is unavailable, just that historically it
has been unavailable for PLUG membership dues.

Post by Daniel Escasa

But the Internet has made paying hassle-free nowadays. Philippine
PayPal account holders can now receive money, so that's one option.

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Orlando Andico

2007-11-05 12:37:47 UTC

My understanding is that the actual subscribed capital need not be
100% of the paid up capital. I think 5% is sufficient...

Post by Jaime Tiongson
I hope the problem will be resolved soon. New Non-stock, non-profit
corporation needs 1 Million paid up capital. It will be very difficult for
the group to raise 1 Million and re-register again.

Jaime Tiongson

2007-11-05 13:00:33 UTC

For non-stock non-profit organizations or foundation, you need 1 Million
paid-up capital (money in the bank!)

Post by Orlando Andico
My understanding is that the actual subscribed capital need not be
100% of the paid up capital. I think 5% is sufficient...

Post by Jaime Tiongson
I hope the problem will be resolved soon. New Non-stock, non-profit
corporation needs 1 Million paid up capital. It will be very difficult

for

Post by Jaime Tiongson
the group to raise 1 Million and re-register again.

_________________________________________________
Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List
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Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph

--
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Gabriel H. Mercado

2007-11-05 13:23:35 UTC

First of all, PLUG's registration is still under consideration - meaning we
still have to figure out if we need it at all.

Second, how can a non-stock non-profit org require 1 million paid up
capital? Do you mean every little charitable, religious, trade, fraternal
etc NGO needs 1 million to get SEC registered? Even stock corporations (for
profit) only require P5,000 paid up.

Anyway, hope to see you guys soon. Please come Jaime if you can.

Thanks
Gary

Post by Jaime Tiongson
For non-stock non-profit organizations or foundation, you need 1 Million
paid-up capital (money in the bank!)

Post by Orlando Andico
My understanding is that the actual subscribed capital need not be
100% of the paid up capital. I think 5% is sufficient...

Post by Jaime Tiongson
I hope the problem will be resolved soon. New Non-stock, non-profit
corporation needs 1 Million paid up capital. It will be very difficult

for

Post by Jaime Tiongson
the group to raise 1 Million and re-register again.

_________________________________________________
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Christian Masancay

2007-11-05 13:51:35 UTC

Good evening,

Gabriel is correct, corporations (stock or non-stock) should have
paid-up capital not less than 5,000 pesos prior to submission of
documents to SEC. The only difference is stock corporations have
subscriptions on their authorized capital stocks which must be at
least 25% of the total subscription, and again 25% of those must be
paid up (paid-up capital not less than five thousand pesos). When I
say paid-up capital, I mean in actual cash or property (fair market
value), and the cash part should not be less than five thousand pesos
(please correct me if I'm wrong, I've been rusty ever since leaving
financial audit three years ago).

I cannot come on friday due to prior commitments. Mr. Paolo Alexis
Falcone will come on my behalf.

Regards,

Christian Masancay

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
First of all, PLUG's registration is still under consideration - meaning we
still have to figure out if we need it at all.
Second, how can a non-stock non-profit org require 1 million paid up
capital? Do you mean every little charitable, religious, trade, fraternal
etc NGO needs 1 million to get SEC registered? Even stock corporations (for
profit) only require P5,000 paid up.
Anyway, hope to see you guys soon. Please come Jaime if you can.
Thanks
Gary

Post by Jaime Tiongson
For non-stock non-profit organizations or foundation, you need 1 Million

paid-up capital (money in the bank!)

Post by Orlando Andico
My understanding is that the actual subscribed capital need not be
100% of the paid up capital. I think 5% is sufficient...

Post by Jaime Tiongson
I hope the problem will be resolved soon. New Non-stock, non-profit
corporation needs 1 Million paid up capital. It will be very difficult

for

Post by Jaime Tiongson
the group to raise 1 Million and re-register again.

_________________________________________________
Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List
Read the Guidelines: http://linux.org.ph/lists
Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph

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Jaime Tiongson

2007-11-05 14:20:46 UTC

SEC changed their requirements recently and increased the paid up capital
for non-stock non-profit organizations (1 Million). If PLUG is already
registered the group must see to it that the SEC status of the group is
still active.

Post by Christian Masancay
Good evening,
Gabriel is correct, corporations (stock or non-stock) should have
paid-up capital not less than 5,000 pesos prior to submission of
documents to SEC. The only difference is stock corporations have
subscriptions on their authorized capital stocks which must be at
least 25% of the total subscription, and again 25% of those must be
paid up (paid-up capital not less than five thousand pesos). When I
say paid-up capital, I mean in actual cash or property (fair market
value), and the cash part should not be less than five thousand pesos
(please correct me if I'm wrong, I've been rusty ever since leaving
financial audit three years ago).
I cannot come on friday due to prior commitments. Mr. Paolo Alexis
Falcone will come on my behalf.
Regards,
Christian Masancay

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
First of all, PLUG's registration is still under consideration - meaning

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
still have to figure out if we need it at all.
Second, how can a non-stock non-profit org require 1 million paid up
capital? Do you mean every little charitable, religious, trade,

fraternal

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
etc NGO needs 1 million to get SEC registered? Even stock corporations

(for

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
profit) only require P5,000 paid up.
Anyway, hope to see you guys soon. Please come Jaime if you can.
Thanks
Gary

Post by Jaime Tiongson
For non-stock non-profit organizations or foundation, you need 1

Million

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
paid-up capital (money in the bank!)

Post by Orlando Andico
My understanding is that the actual subscribed capital need not be
100% of the paid up capital. I think 5% is sufficient...

Post by Jaime Tiongson
I hope the problem will be resolved soon. New Non-stock,

non-profit

Post by Jaime Tiongson
corporation needs 1 Million paid up capital. It will be very

difficult

Post by Jaime Tiongson
the group to raise 1 Million and re-register again.

_________________________________________________
Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List
Read the Guidelines: http://linux.org.ph/lists
Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph

--
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_________________________________________________
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Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph

--
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Christian Masancay

2007-11-05 16:56:46 UTC

Good evening,

I've consulted with my financial audit counterparts in my company, the
minimum paid-up capital for foundations (non-stock corporations) is 1
million based on the latest SEC phamplet they gave me. Although, I
think "paid-up capital" is not necessarily a 1 million peso deposit in
the bank (I forgot to verify this, since in accounting paid-up capital
is actual cash and contribution PAID to the elected treasurer of the
corporation...hehe).

Also if you browse the SEC website, the paid-up capital required for
foundations is also their working capital (which is the minimum
capital to run the organization).

But Gabriel is still correct about the Php5,000.00 based on the
Corporation Code (generally applicable to corporations whether stock
or non-stock). Capital requirements are influenced by the type of
industry, so in the absence any specific provision, SEC can enforced
certain levels of capital requirements based on the type of business.
That explains why banks and most financial institutions have a bigger
capital requirements than merchandising and service organizations.

I'll send a copy of the latest SEC phamplet to Ian, Marvin and Paolo
for their information.

Thanks for the information.

Regards,

Christian Masancay

Post by Jaime Tiongson
SEC changed their requirements recently and increased the paid up capital
for non-stock non-profit organizations (1 Million). If PLUG is already
registered the group must see to it that the SEC status of the group is
still active.

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
First of all, PLUG's registration is still under consideration - meaning

fraternal

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
etc NGO needs 1 million to get SEC registered? Even stock corporations

(for

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
profit) only require P5,000 paid up.
Anyway, hope to see you guys soon. Please come Jaime if you can.
Thanks
Gary

Post by Jaime Tiongson
For non-stock non-profit organizations or foundation, you need 1

Million

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
paid-up capital (money in the bank!)

Post by Orlando Andico
My understanding is that the actual subscribed capital need not be
100% of the paid up capital. I think 5% is sufficient...

Post by Jaime Tiongson
I hope the problem will be resolved soon. New Non-stock,

non-profit

Post by Jaime Tiongson
corporation needs 1 Million paid up capital. It will be very

difficult

Post by Jaime Tiongson
the group to raise 1 Million and re-register again.

_________________________________________________
Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List
Read the Guidelines: http://linux.org.ph/lists
Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph

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Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
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Marvin Pascual

2007-11-06 01:22:06 UTC

Post by Christian Masancay
I'll send a copy of the latest SEC phamplet to Ian, Marvin and Paolo
for their information.

Thank you, Christian. I already received it.

I suggest you start working with the SEC requirements on the first few
weeks of January 2008 but prepare for it ASAP.

Good luck!

Marvin
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Bong Dizon

2007-11-06 11:26:46 UTC

A foundation and a non-stock corporation are not the same thing. P1M paid up
capital only applies to foundations. Plug is seems is not a foundation but a
non-stock, non-profit corporation.

I used to do corporate law. I don't think the rules have changed that much.

Post by Christian Masancay
Good evening,
I've consulted with my financial audit counterparts in my company, the
minimum paid-up capital for foundations (non-stock corporations) is 1
million based on the latest SEC phamplet they gave me. Although, I
think "paid-up capital" is not necessarily a 1 million peso deposit in
the bank (I forgot to verify this, since in accounting paid-up capital
is actual cash and contribution PAID to the elected treasurer of the
corporation...hehe).
Also if you browse the SEC website, the paid-up capital required for
foundations is also their working capital (which is the minimum
capital to run the organization).
But Gabriel is still correct about the Php5,000.00 based on the
Corporation Code (generally applicable to corporations whether stock
or non-stock). Capital requirements are influenced by the type of
industry, so in the absence any specific provision, SEC can enforced
certain levels of capital requirements based on the type of business.
That explains why banks and most financial institutions have a bigger
capital requirements than merchandising and service organizations.
I'll send a copy of the latest SEC phamplet to Ian, Marvin and Paolo
for their information.
Thanks for the information.
Regards,
Christian Masancay

Post by Jaime Tiongson
SEC changed their requirements recently and increased the paid up

capital

Post by Jaime Tiongson
for non-stock non-profit organizations (1 Million). If PLUG is already
registered the group must see to it that the SEC status of the group is
still active.

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
First of all, PLUG's registration is still under consideration -

meaning

Post by Jaime Tiongson
we

fraternal

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
etc NGO needs 1 million to get SEC registered? Even stock

corporations

Post by Jaime Tiongson
(for

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
profit) only require P5,000 paid up.
Anyway, hope to see you guys soon. Please come Jaime if you can.
Thanks
Gary

Post by Jaime Tiongson
For non-stock non-profit organizations or foundation, you need 1

Million

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
paid-up capital (money in the bank!)

Post by Orlando Andico
My understanding is that the actual subscribed capital need not

Post by Orlando Andico
100% of the paid up capital. I think 5% is sufficient...

Post by Jaime Tiongson
I hope the problem will be resolved soon. New Non-stock,

non-profit

Post by Jaime Tiongson
corporation needs 1 Million paid up capital. It will be very

difficult

Post by Jaime Tiongson
the group to raise 1 Million and re-register again.

_________________________________________________
Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List
Read the Guidelines: http://linux.org.ph/lists
Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph

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Christian Masancay

2007-11-06 13:34:55 UTC

Good evening,

Well, based on the SEC website (requirements for Non-stock
corporations), a foundation is a type of non-stock corporation. I
think PLUG would be generally be classified as a non-stock corporation
just as Mr. Dizon has pointed out, and not a specific type of
non-stock corporation like a foundation. The other types of non-stock
corporations are foundations, religious corporations, federations,
condominium and neighborhood associations. PLUG doesn't fall to any
of these types, so the general rules of the corporation code will
probably apply.

Anyway, I copied the requirements for non-stock corporations in the
SEC website, please see below.

REGISTRATION OF CORPORATIONS

B. Non-Stock Corporation

Basic Requirements

1. Name verification slip

2. Articles of Incorporation and By-laws

3. Affidavit of an incorporator or director undertaking to change
corporate name

4. List of members, certified by the Corporate Secretary

5. List of contributors and amount contributed certified by the treasurer

Note: Items 3, 4, and 5 need not be submitted if already stated in the
Articles of Incorporation

Additional Requirements

6. Endorsement/Clearance from other government agencies, if applicable.

7. For Foundations: Notarized Certificate of Bank Deposit of the
contribution of not less than P1,000,000.00; and Statement of
willingness to allow the Commission to conduct an audit

8. For religious corporations: Refer to Sections 109-116 of the
Corporation Code of the Philippines, and add an affidavit of
affirmation or verification by the chief priest, rabbi, minister or
presiding elder

9. For federations: Certified list of member-associations by corporate
secretary or president

10. For condominium corporations/associations: Master Deed with
primary entry of the Register of Deeds and certification that there is
no other existing similar condominium association within the
condominium project

11. For neighborhood associations: Certification from the Housing and
Land Use Regulatory Board (HLURB) that there is no other existing
homeowners' or similar association in the community where the
association is to be established

Regards,

Christian Masancay

Post by Bong Dizon
A foundation and a non-stock corporation are not the same thing. P1M paid up
capital only applies to foundations. Plug is seems is not a foundation but a
non-stock, non-profit corporation.
I used to do corporate law. I don't think the rules have changed that much.

Post by Christian Masancay
Good evening,
I've consulted with my financial audit counterparts in my company, the
minimum paid-up capital for foundations (non-stock corporations) is 1
million based on the latest SEC phamplet they gave me. Although, I
think "paid-up capital" is not necessarily a 1 million peso deposit in
the bank (I forgot to verify this, since in accounting paid-up capital
is actual cash and contribution PAID to the elected treasurer of the
corporation...hehe).
Also if you browse the SEC website, the paid-up capital required for
foundations is also their working capital (which is the minimum
capital to run the organization).
But Gabriel is still correct about the Php5, 000.00 based on the
Corporation Code (generally applicable to corporations whether stock
or non-stock). Capital requirements are influenced by the type of
industry, so in the absence any specific provision, SEC can enforced
certain levels of capital requirements based on the type of business.
That explains why banks and most financial institutions have a bigger
capital requirements than merchandising and service organizations.
I'll send a copy of the latest SEC phamplet to Ian, Marvin and Paolo
for their information.
Thanks for the information.
Regards,
Christian Masancay

Post by Jaime Tiongson
SEC changed their requirements recently and increased the paid up

capital

Post by Jaime Tiongson
for non-stock non-profit organizations (1 Million). If PLUG is already
registered the group must see to it that the SEC status of the group is
still active.

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
First of all, PLUG's registration is still under consideration -

meaning

Post by Jaime Tiongson
we

fraternal

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
etc NGO needs 1 million to get SEC registered? Even stock

corporations

Post by Jaime Tiongson
(for

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
profit) only require P5,000 paid up.
Anyway, hope to see you guys soon. Please come Jaime if you can.
Thanks
Gary

Post by Jaime Tiongson
For non-stock non-profit organizations or foundation, you need 1

Million

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
paid-up capital (money in the bank!)

Post by Orlando Andico
My understanding is that the actual subscribed capital need not

Post by Orlando Andico
100% of the paid up capital. I think 5% is sufficient...

Post by Jaime Tiongson
I hope the problem will be resolved soon. New Non-stock,

non-profit

Post by Jaime Tiongson
corporation needs 1 Million paid up capital. It will be very

difficult

Post by Jaime Tiongson
the group to raise 1 Million and re-register again.

_________________________________________________

Post by Orlando Andico
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Gabriel H. Mercado

2007-11-10 02:06:02 UTC

Hello all,

We had quite a productive meeting last night at Bo's Coffee, Robinson's
Galleria. I will be posting the summary of our discussion by mid next week.

Gary
http://lefthandedlayup.com

Post by Christian Masancay
Good evening,
Well, based on the SEC website (requirements for Non-stock
corporations), a foundation is a type of non-stock corporation. I
think PLUG would be generally be classified as a non-stock corporation
just as Mr. Dizon has pointed out, and not a specific type of
non-stock corporation like a foundation. The other types of non-stock
corporations are foundations, religious corporations, federations,
condominium and neighborhood associations. PLUG doesn't fall to any
of these types, so the general rules of the corporation code will
probably apply.
Anyway, I copied the requirements for non-stock corporations in the
SEC website, please see below.
REGISTRATION OF CORPORATIONS
B. Non-Stock Corporation
Basic Requirements
1. Name verification slip
2. Articles of Incorporation and By-laws
3. Affidavit of an incorporator or director undertaking to change
corporate name
4. List of members, certified by the Corporate Secretary
5. List of contributors and amount contributed certified by the treasurer
Note: Items 3, 4, and 5 need not be submitted if already stated in the
Articles of Incorporation
Additional Requirements
6. Endorsement/Clearance from other government agencies, if applicable.
7. For Foundations: Notarized Certificate of Bank Deposit of the
contribution of not less than P1,000,000.00; and Statement of
willingness to allow the Commission to conduct an audit
8. For religious corporations: Refer to Sections 109-116 of the
Corporation Code of the Philippines, and add an affidavit of
affirmation or verification by the chief priest, rabbi, minister or
presiding elder
9. For federations: Certified list of member-associations by corporate
secretary or president
10. For condominium corporations/associations: Master Deed with
primary entry of the Register of Deeds and certification that there is
no other existing similar condominium association within the
condominium project
11. For neighborhood associations: Certification from the Housing and
Land Use Regulatory Board (HLURB) that there is no other existing
homeowners' or similar association in the community where the
association is to be established
Regards,
Christian Masancay

Post by Bong Dizon
A foundation and a non-stock corporation are not the same thing. P1M

paid up

Post by Bong Dizon
capital only applies to foundations. Plug is seems is not a foundation

but a

Post by Bong Dizon
non-stock, non-profit corporation.
I used to do corporate law. I don't think the rules have changed that

much.

Post by Christian Masancay
Good evening,
I've consulted with my financial audit counterparts in my company, the
minimum paid-up capital for foundations (non-stock corporations) is 1
million based on the latest SEC phamplet they gave me. Although, I
think "paid-up capital" is not necessarily a 1 million peso deposit in
the bank (I forgot to verify this, since in accounting paid-up capital
is actual cash and contribution PAID to the elected treasurer of the
corporation...hehe).
Also if you browse the SEC website, the paid-up capital required for
foundations is also their working capital (which is the minimum
capital to run the organization).
But Gabriel is still correct about the Php5, 000.00 based on the
Corporation Code (generally applicable to corporations whether stock
or non-stock). Capital requirements are influenced by the type of
industry, so in the absence any specific provision, SEC can enforced
certain levels of capital requirements based on the type of business.
That explains why banks and most financial institutions have a bigger
capital requirements than merchandising and service organizations.
I'll send a copy of the latest SEC phamplet to Ian, Marvin and Paolo
for their information.
Thanks for the information.
Regards,
Christian Masancay

Post by Jaime Tiongson
SEC changed their requirements recently and increased the paid up

capital

Post by Jaime Tiongson
for non-stock non-profit organizations (1 Million). If PLUG is

already

Post by Jaime Tiongson
registered the group must see to it that the SEC status of the group

Post by Jaime Tiongson
still active.

Post by Christian Masancay
paid up (paid-up capital not less than five thousand pesos). When

Post by Christian Masancay
say paid-up capital, I mean in actual cash or property (fair

market

Post by Christian Masancay
value), and the cash part should not be less than five thousand

pesos

Post by Christian Masancay
(please correct me if I'm wrong, I've been rusty ever since

leaving

Post by Christian Masancay
financial audit three years ago).
I cannot come on friday due to prior commitments. Mr. Paolo Alexis
Falcone will come on my behalf.
Regards,
Christian Masancay

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
First of all, PLUG's registration is still under consideration -

meaning

Post by Jaime Tiongson
we

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
still have to figure out if we need it at all.
Second, how can a non-stock non-profit org require 1 million

paid up

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
capital? Do you mean every little charitable, religious, trade,

fraternal

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
etc NGO needs 1 million to get SEC registered? Even stock

corporations

Post by Jaime Tiongson
(for

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
profit) only require P5,000 paid up.
Anyway, hope to see you guys soon. Please come Jaime if you can.
Thanks
Gary

Post by Jaime Tiongson
For non-stock non-profit organizations or foundation, you need

Post by Jaime Tiongson
Million

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
paid-up capital (money in the bank!)

Post by Orlando Andico
My understanding is that the actual subscribed capital need

not

Post by Bong Dizon
be

Post by Orlando Andico
100% of the paid up capital. I think 5% is sufficient...
On Nov 5, 2007 6:04 PM, Jaime Tiongson <

Post by Jaime Tiongson
I hope the problem will be resolved soon. New Non-stock,

non-profit

Post by Jaime Tiongson
corporation needs 1 Million paid up capital. It will be

very

Post by Jaime Tiongson
difficult

Post by Jaime Tiongson
the group to raise 1 Million and re-register again.

_________________________________________________

Post by Orlando Andico
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ian sison (mailing list)

2007-11-05 10:51:00 UTC

Post by Mhac Janapin
1) Let's convene A.S.A.P.
2) Let's elect Board Members
3) Let's elect Other officers
4) Let's reconvene. Agenda: ConCom
5) Let's work

While this may sound like the "usual" way to proceed, previous
experience tells me that this will not work. Voting in another set of
officers, and expecting them to do "something" for the next year is
not enough.

There should be a close-knit group that will step forward and state
their platform. The people comprising this group should have to be
able to meet often, be able to rely on each other, should be familiar
with each others working styles.

What i'd like to propose is a system of ACCOUNTABILITY. Instead of
waiting for any movement from the board after they are elected, i'd
prefer that WE KNOW WHAT THEIR PLANS ARE before being voted in. This
way the organization can have a better way of voting for a board. It
won't be based on personalities, but based on a claimed course of
action. And if for whatever reason the goals are not met, then it
would be plainly evident who are to blame for certain failures.

Why should it be a close-knit group? Because it would be very
important that the board be able to function, even without any help
from others. They must be able to help each other. Because in
reality, no one helps the board, and even sometimes, no one helps the
president, no matter how many calls for volunteers are made.

It's more important now, more than ever that the next board we elect
has a plan on what to do, and where to go. If no group will step up,
i'm afraid, we will go on again with the sorry mistakes of the past,
all talking about what many things PLUG can do, but then leaving the
implementation half hearted, or delayed.

To answer G. Mercado's post, i don't believe now is the time for
'trying' (we tried that several times already in the past) it's time
to step up as a group, and COMMIT to doing something for PLUG, and
putting your reputation on the line. It's just one year anyway.

Nasaan na yung mga nag post na maraming pang pwedeng gawin ang PLUG?

Ian
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Fernando D. Contreras, Jr.

2007-11-05 10:57:03 UTC

I've been trying to push an organization of both individuals and
companies. Will this fit in PLUG's constitution? Admittedly, one reason
why other organization survive is because of financial stability.
Ideally, something that will make PLUG have a voice of a trade organization.

My 2c worth.

Regards,
JR Contreras
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Carlos Yu

2007-11-05 14:11:12 UTC

Post by Fernando D. Contreras, Jr.
I've been trying to push an organization of both individuals and
companies. Will this fit in PLUG's constitution? Admittedly, one reason
why other organization survive is because of financial stability.
Ideally, something that will make PLUG have a voice of a trade organization.

Makes sense. Check out the Philippine Retailers Association website:
http://www.philretailers.com.
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Gabriel H. Mercado

2007-11-05 11:53:29 UTC

I would like to invite everyone concerned to meet at Robinson's Galleria
Ortigas 6pm on Friday, November 9, 2007.

This is a completely informal thing with the agenda of determining such
matters as: where are we right now, what facilities (if any) are available
to us, who are we, etc., so that eventually we can decide where to go from
here.

I have my own ideas (and yes I am willing to commit to them), but I'd really
rather discuss them in person and besides I think it's best we start meeting
up already as we are filling up the maillist too much.

I'd very much like to have Ian there of course, plus Paolo as well as any
other people who have had a chance to run things in the past. However if you
are unable to come it's ok I will make sure to document everything for
everyone's perusal later on.

I look forward to meeting you guys all.

Gary

Post by Mhac Janapin
1) Let's convene A.S.A.P.
2) Let's elect Board Members
3) Let's elect Other officers
4) Let's reconvene. Agenda: ConCom
5) Let's work

While this may sound like the "usual" way to proceed, previous
experience tells me that this will not work. Voting in another set of
officers, and expecting them to do "something" for the next year is
not enough.
There should be a close-knit group that will step forward and state
their platform. The people comprising this group should have to be
able to meet often, be able to rely on each other, should be familiar
with each others working styles.
What i'd like to propose is a system of ACCOUNTABILITY. Instead of
waiting for any movement from the board after they are elected, i'd
prefer that WE KNOW WHAT THEIR PLANS ARE before being voted in. This
way the organization can have a better way of voting for a board. It
won't be based on personalities, but based on a claimed course of
action. And if for whatever reason the goals are not met, then it
would be plainly evident who are to blame for certain failures.
Why should it be a close-knit group? Because it would be very
important that the board be able to function, even without any help
from others. They must be able to help each other. Because in
reality, no one helps the board, and even sometimes, no one helps the
president, no matter how many calls for volunteers are made.
It's more important now, more than ever that the next board we elect
has a plan on what to do, and where to go. If no group will step up,
i'm afraid, we will go on again with the sorry mistakes of the past,
all talking about what many things PLUG can do, but then leaving the
implementation half hearted, or delayed.
To answer G. Mercado's post, i don't believe now is the time for
'trying' (we tried that several times already in the past) it's time
to step up as a group, and COMMIT to doing something for PLUG, and
putting your reputation on the line. It's just one year anyway.
Nasaan na yung mga nag post na maraming pang pwedeng gawin ang PLUG?
Ian
_________________________________________________
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Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph

Zak B. Elep

2007-11-05 15:29:36 UTC

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
I would like to invite everyone concerned to meet at Robinson's Galleria
Ortigas 6pm on Friday, November 9, 2007.

Hmmm, looks like I'll be in that neighborhood. Keep in touch. :)

Cheers,

Zakame

--
Zak B. Elep || http://zakame.spunge.org
zakame-GeWIH/nMZzLQT0dZR+***@public.gmane.org || zakame-NlwAFEu9kz0dnm+***@public.gmane.org || zakame-***@public.gmane.org
1486 7957 454D E529 E4F1 F75E 5787 B1FD FA53 851D
_________________________________________________
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eric draven

2007-11-05 17:18:31 UTC

I thought this email would put an end to this sad, uber-long thread of
people dropping smart-ass one-liner emails. But noooo!!!! Everyone
likes to troll...

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
I would like to invite everyone concerned to meet at Robinson's Galleria
Ortigas 6pm on Friday, November 9, 2007.
This is a completely informal thing with the agenda of determining such
matters as: where are we right now, what facilities (if any) are available
to us, who are we, etc., so that eventually we can decide where to go from
here.
I have my own ideas (and yes I am willing to commit to them), but I'd really
rather discuss them in person and besides I think it's best we start meeting
up already as we are filling up the maillist too much.
I'd very much like to have Ian there of course, plus Paolo as well as any
other people who have had a chance to run things in the past. However if you
are unable to come it's ok I will make sure to document everything for
everyone's perusal later on.
I look forward to meeting you guys all.
Gary

Post by Mhac Janapin
1) Let's convene A.S.A.P.
2) Let's elect Board Members
3) Let's elect Other officers
4) Let's reconvene. Agenda: ConCom
5) Let's work

While this may sound like the "usual" way to proceed, previous
experience tells me that this will not work. Voting in another set of
officers, and expecting them to do "something" for the next year is
not enough.
There should be a close-knit group that will step forward and state
their platform. The people comprising this group should have to be
able to meet often, be able to rely on each other, should be familiar
with each others working styles.
What i'd like to propose is a system of ACCOUNTABILITY. Instead of
waiting for any movement from the board after they are elected, i'd
prefer that WE KNOW WHAT THEIR PLANS ARE before being voted in. This
way the organization can have a better way of voting for a board. It
won't be based on personalities, but based on a claimed course of
action. And if for whatever reason the goals are not met, then it
would be plainly evident who are to blame for certain failures.
Why should it be a close-knit group? Because it would be very
important that the board be able to function, even without any help
from others. They must be able to help each other. Because in
reality, no one helps the board, and even sometimes, no one helps the
president, no matter how many calls for volunteers are made.
It's more important now, more than ever that the next board we elect
has a plan on what to do, and where to go. If no group will step up,
i'm afraid, we will go on again with the sorry mistakes of the past,
all talking about what many things PLUG can do, but then leaving the
implementation half hearted, or delayed.
To answer G. Mercado's post, i don't believe now is the time for
'trying' (we tried that several times already in the past) it's time
to step up as a group, and COMMIT to doing something for PLUG, and
putting your reputation on the line. It's just one year anyway.
Nasaan na yung mga nag post na maraming pang pwedeng gawin ang PLUG?
Ian
_________________________________________________
Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List
Read the Guidelines: http://linux.org.ph/lists
Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph

_________________________________________________
Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List
Read the Guidelines: http://linux.org.ph/lists
Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph

--
Suddenly, I heared a tapping, as of someone gently rapping, rapping at
my chamber door...
_________________________________________________
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Gabriel H. Mercado

2007-11-06 01:30:32 UTC

Let's make it Bo's Coffee, at the basement Robinson's Galleria Ortigas Pasig
6pm to be specific. I'll try to reserve a table or two.

Later folks.

Post by Gabriel H. Mercado
I would like to invite everyone concerned to meet at Robinson's Galleria
Ortigas 6pm on Friday, November 9, 2007.
This is a completely informal thing with the agenda of determining such
matters as: where are we right now, what facilities (if any) are available
to us, who are we, etc., so that eventually we can decide where to go from
here.
I have my own ideas (and yes I am willing to commit to them), but I'd
really rather discuss them in person and besides I think it's best we start
meeting up already as we are filling up the maillist too much.
I'd very much like to have Ian there of course, plus Paolo as well as any
other people who have had a chance to run things in the past. However if you
are unable to come it's ok I will make sure to document everything for
everyone's perusal later on.
I look forward to meeting you guys all.
Gary

Post by Mhac Janapin
1) Let's convene A.S.A.P.
2) Let's elect Board Members
3) Let's elect Other officers
4) Let's reconvene. Agenda: ConCom
5) Let's work

While this may sound like the "usual" way to proceed, previous
experience tells me that this will not work. Voting in another set of
officers, and expecting them to do "something" for the next year is
not enough.
There should be a close-knit group that will step forward and state
their platform. The people comprising this group should have to be
able to meet often, be able to rely on each other, should be familiar
with each others working styles.
What i'd like to propose is a system of ACCOUNTABILITY. Instead of
waiting for any movement from the board after they are elected, i'd
prefer that WE KNOW WHAT THEIR PLANS ARE before being voted in. This
way the organization can have a better way of voting for a board. It
won't be based on personalities, but based on a claimed course of
action. And if for whatever reason the goals are not met, then it
would be plainly evident who are to blame for certain failures.
Why should it be a close-knit group? Because it would be very
important that the board be able to function, even without any help
from others. They must be able to help each other. Because in
reality, no one helps the board, and even sometimes, no one helps the
president, no matter how many calls for volunteers are made.
It's more important now, more than ever that the next board we elect
has a plan on what to do, and where to go. If no group will step up,
i'm afraid, we will go on again with the sorry mistakes of the past,
all talking about what many things PLUG can do, but then leaving the
implementation half hearted, or delayed.
To answer G. Mercado's post, i don't believe now is the time for
'trying' (we tried that several times already in the past) it's time
to step up as a group, and COMMIT to doing something for PLUG, and
putting your reputation on the line. It's just one year anyway.
Nasaan na yung mga nag post na maraming pang pwedeng gawin ang PLUG?
Ian
_________________________________________________
Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List
Read the Guidelines: http://linux.org.ph/lists
Searchable Archives: http://archives.free.net.ph

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Pablo Manalastas

2007-11-06 05:53:05 UTC

Let's all join this important meeting:

Friday, November 9, 2007, 6:00 PM
Bo's Cafe
Basement, Robinsons Galleria, Ortigas

Thank you to all who will be there. If you can't be
there, send your wife, girlfriend, sibling, etc.
Just make your presence felt. Thanks.

Pablo Manalastas
***

"Gabriel H. Mercado" <ghmercado-***@public.gmane.org> wrote: Let's make it Bo's Coffee, at the basement Robinson's Galleria Ortigas Pasig 6pm to be specific. I'll try to reserve a table or two.

Later folks.

On 11/5/07, Gabriel H. Mercado <ghmercado-***@public.gmane.org> wrote: I would like to invite everyone concerned to meet at Robinson's Galleria Ortigas 6pm on Friday, November 9, 2007.

Peter Gaston

2007-11-06 01:31:08 UTC

Post by ian sison (mailing list)
There should be a close-knit group that will step forward and state
their platform. The people comprising this group should have to be
able to meet often, be able to rely on each other, should be familiar
with each others working styles.

Having such group has both advantages and disadvantages. The close-knit
group can work well together, but at the same time there should be a
guarantee that they will not form a clique within the organization.
What we call "cronies" in politics.

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ian sison (mailing list)

2007-11-06 02:18:52 UTC

Post by Peter Gaston

At this point, what matters is results. If this group is elected on
the basis of a set of goals and objectives, and commits to achieving
them in the time frame of one year, it doesn't really matter who or
what comprises that group. It could be one person, or a 'clique' for
all i care. If the goals are accepted by the majority of members, and
they are actually achieved in the fiscal year, then it's all good.
This eliminates politics, and forces all to focus on getting work
done.

Now if the goals aren't met, then the organization can always boot
them out - but only on the basis of non-performance.

Ian
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ian sison (mailing list)

2007-10-31 11:04:58 UTC

The spirit of "volunterism" quickly fades when seen amidst the reality
of both professional and personal commitments. That statement is not
conjecture. It is a reality. And for the few who do find the time to
volunteer, the tasks at hand are so enourmous and time-consuming that
it the entire effort becomes unsustainable.

All who have answered positively to my initial questions - it's nice
to see that you have really good ideas on what PLUG should be doing,
but can you put your money and TIME where your "posts" are?

I've seen Marvin Pascual and Paolo Falcone labor intensively during
his tenure, sometimes alone, with other people (including me) too busy
to be bothered. I commend them for keeping the flame of PLUG alive
during those times. But alas, Marvin is now working abroad, and
although Paolo is still around, the job is too big for one person.
Even during my tenure as president, nobody i approached could
accomodate enough of their time to move the agreed upon projects
forward.

It's nice to read about what PLUG could and should be doing, but
really, those who posted, my challenge is to put your time in this,
not just offer rhetoric.

Maybe it's time for you to step up, put forth a platform, a list of
activities you can commit to implement during your term, and then
maybe the "membership" can vote you in as PLUG officers.

It would be nice to see the spirit of SUSTAINABLE volunterism in PLUG,
and not just be a list of activities few members of a mailing list did
in the past..

As for having a "paid" set of officers or administrative people, that
can only come when PLUG is able to present VALUE to potential donors.
This is something we need to build in time, This is something we need
to prove today. This is something we can hope to achieve in the
medium or long term, but as it is, not with one year of dormancy, and
a membership hesitant to donate time even to meet for an election of
officers.

Post by Holden Hao

Post by Kelsey Hartigan Go
That's one of the reason why I never ever wanted to form a formal group
... but since it's there, it's there.
Don't take me wrong...I do appreciate that PLUG has changed into a
structured organization, but to get a formal group going, you need
dedicated people, sys ads, people who experiment, but geeks (no insult
intended) are not that kind of people. -- I mean dedicated to
administrative...they'd

This is somewhat true and I am frustrated that you can't even bother
some board members to make decisions and vote with a "yes" or a "no"
to resolutions submitted via the board list. However, I believe that
with a structured organization PLUG can achieve more and grow from
just being a mailing list.
I believe that to make PLUG grow, we need a professional management
team to manage its operations. PLUG can function as an NGO and manage
its day to day operations and projects (FOSS conferences, advocacies,
boot camps, etc.) . However, the management team needs to be paid.
The organization needs to be able to get seed funding in order to
establish its foundation. This can be done through donations,
sponsorships, or through an income generating activity. The only
problem we have now is that who can spare the time to do all this at
the start.
Holden
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Gabriel H. Mercado

2007-10-31 01:35:27 UTC

I think Kelsey hit it right on the head. The typical PLUG member is a geek
and geeks, while good with machines and possessing the correct motivation in
promoting open source, aren't necessarily good at speaking up and
interacting with others; in other words, the things you need to do to get an
organization working effectively.
While on that topic, it should be clear as well that what we're talking
about here is PLUG as an effective SEC-registered org, and not the mailling
list, not the user group and not even the fact that there is a need to
promote open source in the country.

I believe the mailing list and user group's future is intact. In other
words, PLUG can dissolve today and this mailing list will still go strong. I
also think everyone understands more needs to be done to promote open
source, this is way established already.

The issue is PLUG's relevance to the times and it's ability to point out
what needs to get done and do it.

This thread has produced a lot of well - meaning recommendations, however
all of them are going to require funding. Even the website requires some
compensation, and shouldn't rely on dole-outs. That means it needs to do
fund - raising, host events, meet people who count and talk to press.

Then it needs able - bodied folks to do legwork. That means time away from
our work, school, friends and family. If you're like me and are already
complaining how you're overworked and don't get out much, doing this means
you'll have even less.

I know I painted a bleak picture there but I think it's a realistic picture.
I believe it's doable, but via a more professional, goal oriented approach.
At the moment I'd rather that PLUG be an effective mailing list than an
ineffective org.

Gary

Post by Kelsey Hartigan Go

Post by Kelsey Hartigan Go
That's one of the reason why I never ever wanted to form a formal group

...

Post by Kelsey Hartigan Go
but since it's there, it's there.
Don't take me wrong...I do appreciate that PLUG has changed into a
structured organization, but to get a formal group going, you need

dedicated

Post by Kelsey Hartigan Go
people, sys ads, people who experiment, but geeks (no insult intended)

are

Post by Kelsey Hartigan Go
not that kind of people. -- I mean dedicated to administrative...they'd

This is somewhat true and I am frustrated that you can't even bother
some board members to make decisions and vote with a "yes" or a "no"
to resolutions submitted via the board list. However, I believe that
with a structured organization PLUG can achieve more and grow from
just being a mailing list.
I believe that to make PLUG grow, we need a professional management
team to manage its operations. PLUG can function as an NGO and manage
its day to day operations and projects (FOSS conferences, advocacies,
boot camps, etc.) . However, the management team needs to be paid.
The organization needs to be able to get seed funding in order to
establish its foundation. This can be done through donations,
sponsorships, or through an income generating activity. The only
problem we have now is that who can spare the time to do all this at
the start.
Holden
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Zak B. Elep

2007-10-31 03:24:08 UTC