Toshiba W-7 went dark

[HB]

When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?

Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.

I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.

Safe Mode is part of Windows; the computer needs to be working even to
run that. (I. e. it's _not_ part of the computer.) Sounds to me as if
some part of the computer itself is not working: I'd have guessed the
hard drive, but the message suggests it might be the memory.

As an outside thing to try, but as it's easy to do: try physically
removing the battery, then seeing if it will boot; the non-charging
suggests the battery may have died; if it has, it _might_ have done so
in such a way that it's loading things excessively. Unlikely, but as I
say easy to try. (If system shows no sign of life at all with the
battery out, then the battery is OK, but the external power supply may
have died - does it have a light on it you can check? [Or have you a
voltmeter?] - or something in between: the power in socket, or its
solder connections, is a common culprit.)
If that proves not to make any difference, then in view of the message
about the memory, I'd _try_ removing and reseating that, in case it's
just not making proper contact: if still no, remove, clean its contacts,
and reseat. If still no good and there are more than one module, try
booting with just one then just the other.
Failing that, perhaps the same with the hard drive - I've had them just
slide out of contact.

[HB]

Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.

Safe Mode is part of Windows; the computer needs to be working even to run
that. (I. e. it's _not_ part of the computer.) Sounds to me as if some
part of the computer itself is not working: I'd have guessed the hard
drive, but the message suggests it might be the memory.

It did a memory check and found it was OK.

As an outside thing to try, but as it's easy to do: try physically
removing the battery, then seeing if it will boot; the non-charging
suggests the battery may have died; if it has, it _might_ have done so in
such a way that it's loading things excessively. Unlikely, but as I say
easy to try. (If system shows no sign of life at all with the battery out,
then the battery is OK, but the external power supply may have died - does
it have a light on it you can check? [Or have you a voltmeter?] - or
something in between: the power in socket, or its solder connections, is a
common culprit.)
If that proves not to make any difference, then in view of the message
about the memory, I'd _try_ removing and reseating that, in case it's just
not making proper contact: if still no, remove, clean its contacts, and
reseat. If still no good and there are more than one module, try booting
with just one then just the other.

Will try this tonight. It's worth a try. Thanks.

Failing that, perhaps the same with the hard drive - I've had them just
slide out of contact.
--
Does my Bradshaw look big in this?

[VanguardLH]

Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.

Some laptops won't run without a main battery installed. However, if
the main battery is dead, the laptop may not come up even when the
laptop's power adapter is plugged into A/C power. I'm not sure how the
circuitry is designed but I have seen some where the battery was used as
a capacitor in the power logic. If voltage regulation relies on a
working main battery, try removing it. How old is the battery? Sounds
like it is too old and you need to replace it.

F8 brings up the boot menu, not necessarily Windows safe mode. Once in
the startup menu, you decide how to continue booting. Safe mode is just
one of the boot options. F8 should bring up the boot menu which look
like this:

Loading Image...
(from https://neosmart.net/wiki/f8-key/)

However, that boot menu is presented by the kernel loader of Windows.
When you see the Advanced Options boot menu, you're already in Windows.
If Windows is corrupted, you might not get the F8 boot menu.

Toshiba is a brand name, not a model number. You never identified your
laptop. "LP" (laptop) doesn't identify WHAT you have. It's possible
Toshiba fucked up the F8 standard of getting into the Windows boot menu
and replaced F8's action to perform something else. Don't know because
you never identified the model for anyone else to go look in the manual
for that model.

[HB]

Post by VanguardLH

Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.

Some laptops won't run without a main battery installed. However, if
the main battery is dead, the laptop may not come up even when the
laptop's power adapter is plugged into A/C power. I'm not sure how the
circuitry is designed but I have seen some where the battery was used as
a capacitor in the power logic. If voltage regulation relies on a
working main battery, try removing it. How old is the battery? Sounds
like it is too old and you need to replace it.

It's the original battery. Was in the LT when relative gave it to me. BTW,
all it says on the Toshiba is Satalite. It's 64-bit.

Post by VanguardLH
F8 brings up the boot menu, not necessarily Windows safe mode. Once in
the startup menu, you decide how to continue booting. Safe mode is just
one of the boot options. F8 should bring up the boot menu which look
https://neosmart.net/wiki/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2013/09/Windows-XP-Advanced-Boot-Options.png
(from https://neosmart.net/wiki/f8-key/)

That's what I'm familiar with. Never saw that window yesterday. I finally
got a screen asking to insert the original CD. None exists so I guess I'm
out of options.

Post by VanguardLH
However, that boot menu is presented by the kernel loader of Windows.
When you see the Advanced Options boot menu, you're already in Windows.
If Windows is corrupted, you might not get the F8 boot menu.
Toshiba is a brand name, not a model number. You never identified your
laptop. "LP" (laptop) doesn't identify WHAT you have. It's possible
Toshiba fucked up the F8 standard of getting into the Windows boot menu
and replaced F8's action to perform something else. Don't know because
you never identified the model for anyone else to go look in the manual
for that model.

Sorry, didn't think to add that. It's a Satellite.

The better half just said to remove the HD, give it a few good whacks with
the sledge hammer and dump them in the electronic recycle bin at the
dumpsters. I often take her advice. I appreciate everyone's time trying to
help.

[VanguardLH]

Post by HB
It's the original battery. Was in the LT when relative gave it to me. BTW,
all it says on the Toshiba is Satalite. It's 64-bit.

Doesn't answer the question "How old is the battery?".

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH
Toshiba is a brand name, not a model number. You never identified your
laptop. "LP" (laptop) doesn't identify WHAT you have. It's possible
Toshiba fucked up the F8 standard of getting into the Windows boot menu
and replaced F8's action to perform something else. Don't know because
you never identified the model for anyone else to go look in the manual
for that model.

Sorry, didn't think to add that. It's a Satellite.

Satellite is a model family name. There are many models under that
family. Searching on "toshiba satellite battery" shows there are more
than one model for batteries that fit various Satellite models.

https://support.toshiba.com/sscontent?contentId=4007069
In that example, the part number is the model number.

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0e5d2edfd0dcda35d538c2abb818da2d-c
In that example, the model number is overtly identified.

Loading Image...
In that example, the model number is right after "Satellite".

That's a video on where to look for the model family name and model
number.

You can also go to Toshiba's support page and enter in either the model
number or serial number, whichever is legible, to find out what you
have. I doubt a legitimate label from Toshiba on their laptop would
only say "Toshiba" and "Satellite". You need to look at the underside
label. If the underside label on the laptop has been obliterated to
become illegible that you cannot see or decipher a model or part number,
there should be a model number printed on the main battery that you can
use to search for a replacement battery. Unlike the label on the
underside of the laptop, the label on the battery gets no wear.

Batteries don't last forever even when properly stored. They're made of
chemicals that deteriorate. Is that old laptop not worth the $20 (*)
for a replacement battery?

(*) Per pricing at Walmart but only for some models of battery packs.

Post by HB
The better half just said to remove the HD, give it a few good whacks with
the sledge hammer and dump them in the electronic recycle bin at the
dumpsters. I often take her advice. I appreciate everyone's time trying to
help.

Some locales do not allow dumping electronics into their waste
facilities due to the lead in the solder. The unit may not be
recyclable if you smash it to pieces. Your locale may require you drop
it off at a hazardous waste recycle center, so don't smash it up. Or
drop it off at the Goodwill. Someone else might want it, wipe the
drive, and start with a fresh install of the OS. They might figure
getting a new battery makes for a cheap laptop.

[HB]

Post by VanguardLH

Post by HB
It's the original battery. Was in the LT when relative gave it to me.
BTW,
all it says on the Toshiba is Satalite. It's 64-bit.

Doesn't answer the question "How old is the battery?".

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH
Toshiba is a brand name, not a model number. You never identified your
laptop. "LP" (laptop) doesn't identify WHAT you have. It's possible
Toshiba fucked up the F8 standard of getting into the Windows boot menu
and replaced F8's action to perform something else. Don't know because
you never identified the model for anyone else to go look in the manual
for that model.

Sorry, didn't think to add that. It's a Satellite.

Satellite is a model family name. There are many models under that
family. Searching on "toshiba satellite battery" shows there are more
than one model for batteries that fit various Satellite models.
https://support.toshiba.com/sscontent?contentId=4007069
In that example, the part number is the model number.
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0e5d2edfd0dcda35d538c2abb818da2d-c
In that example, the model number is overtly identified.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/csm_Toshiba_C55_A_1D5_Typenschild_d38b165e44.jpg
In that example, the model number is right after "Satellite".
http://youtu.be/url44LeZvgo
That's a video on where to look for the model family name and model
number.
You can also go to Toshiba's support page and enter in either the model
number or serial number, whichever is legible, to find out what you
have. I doubt a legitimate label from Toshiba on their laptop would
only say "Toshiba" and "Satellite". You need to look at the underside
label. If the underside label on the laptop has been obliterated to
become illegible that you cannot see or decipher a model or part number,
there should be a model number printed on the main battery that you can
use to search for a replacement battery. Unlike the label on the
underside of the laptop, the label on the battery gets no wear.
Batteries don't last forever even when properly stored. They're made of
chemicals that deteriorate. Is that old laptop not worth the $20 (*)
for a replacement battery?
(*) Per pricing at Walmart but only for some models of battery packs.

Post by HB
The better half just said to remove the HD, give it a few good whacks with
the sledge hammer and dump them in the electronic recycle bin at the
dumpsters. I often take her advice. I appreciate everyone's time trying to
help.

Some locales do not allow dumping electronics into their waste
facilities due to the lead in the solder. The unit may not be
recyclable if you smash it to pieces. Your locale may require you drop
it off at a hazardous waste recycle center, so don't smash it up. Or
drop it off at the Goodwill. Someone else might want it, wipe the
drive, and start with a fresh install of the OS. They might figure
getting a new battery makes for a cheap laptop.

On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.

What makes you think it's the battery since it worked fine without it as
long as it was plugged in? I had this same "going blank" with the blinking
"-" in the upper left hand corner before and they were desktops. I don't
remember the exact figures anymore but to fix them, according to the shops
where I lived at the time, wasn't worth what it would cost. An XP and a
Vista both went the same way.

It wasn't dead when plugged in as info came up when I tapped F2 or F8 but
not safe mode. Nothing that showed was familiar to me. A repair tech would
know what the info meant but it was Chinese to me. So it didn't need a
battery to run. I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.

[Java Jive]

On 11/03/2018 10:11, HB wrote:
(much snipped for brevity)

I think either I or Vanguard must be mistaken. He seems to be implying
that you were about to crunch the entire laptop with a sledge hammer,
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it
was dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal
data being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer
and a cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.

I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.

Post by HB
What makes you think it's the battery since it worked fine without it as
long as it was plugged in? I had this same "going blank" with the blinking
"-" in the upper left hand corner before and they were desktops. I don't
remember the exact figures anymore but to fix them, according to the shops
where I lived at the time, wasn't worth what it would cost. An XP and a
Vista both went the same way.

Shops may be right in that it may not be commercially viable for them to
make certain types of repairs, or for you to pay them to do so, but
probably they also hope that they can persuade you to buy a replacement
from their stock, while some repairs, a new battery is a good example,
you can do yourself economically.

Post by HB
It wasn't dead when plugged in as info came up when I tapped F2 or F8 but
not safe mode. Nothing that showed was familiar to me. A repair tech would
know what the info meant but it was Chinese to me. So it didn't need a
battery to run. I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.

Most PCs can do some primitive diagnostics from the BIOS. The BIOS is
usually entered by pressing or holding down a particular key at a
particular stage in the boot process - favourites are <Del>, and
either <F10> or one of the other function keys across the top of the
keyboard. Again, going on to Toshiba's site and identifying the model
number may help you find out which key is the magic one. Some laptops,
such as Dells, can even perform full diagnostic tests by pressing a
different magic key, IIRC <F11>, but my memory for such intermittently
used information is getting a little dodgy these days, and anyway you
have a Toshiba, not a Dell, so it's likely to be a different key, if
full diagnostics are available at all.

You may find this page on my site, useful - although when written I
mostly had desktops in mind, since writing it I've repaired some laptops
as well, and while the details may be different, the principles are
exactly the same:
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/HardwareFaults.html

In particular, either ...

If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or
other Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or
64-bit as appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick,
depending on the size of the download, and see what messages Linux
generates as it tries to boot the PC. This may give you some useful
pointers to a hardware fault. If the PC boots from the stick, then you
should see your hard disk partition(s) as clickable icons down the left
hand side menu (in Ubuntu, other distros may be different, for example
the icons may be on the desktop). Try this and come back to us with a
description of what happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all,
whether Linux lets see your HD at all, and even the contents of it.

Or ...

If you can mount the HD in a desktop, do that and diagnose it from
there. If, as is likely with an old laptop, you have an IDE drive, you
would need a 2.5"-to-3.5" HD connector/convertor and attach the other
side of that to a spare IDE connector and power cable, whereas a SATA
drive can be attached directly to a standard SATA cable, but you may
need a convertor for the power cable - it all depends on the
particular combination of laptop HD and desktop motherboard and power
supply cables. Try this and do a chkdsk on the laptop's HD - you will
probably have to go into Disk Manager and give the laptop HD a drive
letter first.

Either way, you should be able to find out if the HD can be retrieved by
repartitioning and reinstalling, and the first should also suggest
whether and how much of the rest of the PC is functioning correctly.

[HB]

Post by Java Jive
(much snipped for brevity)
I think either I or Vanguard must be mistaken. He seems to be implying
that you were about to crunch the entire laptop with a sledge hammer,
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.

Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.

I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.

This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a
better faster newer laptop.

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB
What makes you think it's the battery since it worked fine without it as
long as it was plugged in? I had this same "going blank" with the blinking
"-" in the upper left hand corner before and they were desktops. I don't
remember the exact figures anymore but to fix them, according to the shops
where I lived at the time, wasn't worth what it would cost. An XP and a
Vista both went the same way.

Shops may be right in that it may not be commercially viable for them to
make certain types of repairs, or for you to pay them to do so, but
probably they also hope that they can persuade you to buy a replacement
from their stock, while some repairs, a new battery is a good example, you
can do yourself economically.

This is true. They knew I would not buy from a small shop. I bought all our
past computers from CompUSA before they went under. One from Best Buy and
one from WalMart. I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe
mode.

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB
It wasn't dead when plugged in as info came up when I tapped F2 or F8 but
not safe mode. Nothing that showed was familiar to me. A repair tech would
know what the info meant but it was Chinese to me. So it didn't need a
battery to run. I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.

Most PCs can do some primitive diagnostics from the BIOS. The BIOS is
usually entered by pressing or holding down a particular key at a
particular stage in the boot process - favourites are <Del>, and either
<F10> or one of the other function keys across the top of the keyboard.
Again, going on to Toshiba's site and identifying the model number may
help you find out which key is the magic one. Some laptops, such as
Dells, can even perform full diagnostic tests by pressing a different
magic key, IIRC <F11>, but my memory for such intermittently used
information is getting a little dodgy these days, and anyway you have a
Toshiba, not a Dell, so it's likely to be a different key, if full
diagnostics are available at all.

I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as
well have been in Chinese.

Post by Java Jive
You may find this page on my site, useful - although when written I
mostly had desktops in mind, since writing it I've repaired some laptops
as well, and while the details may be different, the principles are
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/HardwareFaults.html
In particular, either ...
If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.

OK.. will do.



. you can mount the HD in a desktop, do that and diagnose it from

Post by Java Jive
there. If, as is likely with an old laptop, you have an IDE drive, you
would need a 2.5"-to-3.5" HD connector/convertor and attach the other side
of that to a spare IDE connector and power cable, whereas a SATA drive can
be attached directly to a standard SATA cable, but you may need a
convertor for the power cable - it all depends on the particular
combination of laptop HD and desktop motherboard and power supply cables.
Try this and do a chkdsk on the laptop's HD - you will probably have to
go into Disk Manager and give the laptop HD a drive letter first.

I wouldn't know where to start and if I want to devote the time it took to
do it. I've had almost no experience with the inside hardware of
computers. The HD doesn't look like anything I've seen in a DT PC. Just
getting to the wires to get the DT PC to come forward is a major
production... seriously. BTW, the HD is a Seagate 250 GBs - the other info
is all in Chinese characters.

Post by Java Jive
Either way, you should be able to find out if the HD can be retrieved by
repartitioning and reinstalling, and the first should also suggest whether
and how much of the rest of the PC is functioning correctly.

[Wolf K]

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
(much snipped for brevity)
I think either I or Vanguard must be mistaken. He seems to be implying
that you were about to crunch the entire laptop with a sledge hammer,
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.

Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.

f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <HjGpC.183532$***@fx40.iad>, Wolf K
<***@sympatico.ca> writes:
[]

Post by Wolf K
f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.

[]
The F8 menu - things like safe mode, safe mode with networking, last
good boot, etc. - _does_ come from the HD.

[HB]

Post by Wolf K

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.

f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.

It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen.

There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention
Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot
Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration.

These are images that I found of what I'm seeing for the most part. They're
the closest but not exactly the same.

https://www.google.com/search?q=InsydeH20setup+utility&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-ifiU0ejZAhUQjlkKHX6XA1MQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1408&bih=625

I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.

Post by Wolf K
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <p87q1q$8sa$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@fake.com> writes:
[]

Post by HB
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.

[]
You will only get that screen if (a) the hard drive is working and (b)
none of the files that the system needs to load to get as far as that
screen have been corrupted.

The beeping just means you've filled the keyboard buffer.

_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?

[Zaidy036]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by HB
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.

[]
You will only get that screen if (a) the hard drive is working and (b)
none of the files that the system needs to load to get as far as that
screen have been corrupted.
The beeping just means you've filled the keyboard buffer.
_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?

If you have a digital camera take pics of screens and post on another site.

[HB]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by HB
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.

[]
You will only get that screen if (a) the hard drive is working and (b)
none of the files that the system needs to load to get as far as that
screen have been corrupted.
The beeping just means you've filled the keyboard buffer.
_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?

I already removed it and made sure it went back in OK.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
--
_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Please read and answer all - I know I tend to be wordy (as do most here
who are trying to help), but most questions I answer here are simple
yes-no answers, and they'll help us all considerably to help you. There
are only about three questions - in fact I'll number them **thus**.
[]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?

I already removed it and made sure it went back in OK.

[]
OK, so that's eliminated one source of the problem. It wasn't _that_
likely, just it was easy to check. (Though I have had a machine where it
does slide out of contact occasionally!)

**Q1** Can you tell, by powering up and down with a finger on the drive
(or your ear close to it), whether it is actually spinning up? Not that
if you can't this proves that it isn't - some modern drives are very
quiet and vibration-free. But it's worth a try as it's easy to do. And
if it is, that still doesn't mean that it's working, just that it isn't
stuck and the motor runs.

[If you can be _sure_ that it _isn't_ spinning, you've _probably_ found
the problem: I _suppose_ it _could_ be that the motherboard isn't
telling it to spin or providing power to it, but that's rare.]

Since you can get it out easily enough, the next stage is to do so and
connect it to another computer (obviously you _have_ another computer as
you're talking to us!) and see if _that_ can see it - ideally direct
rather than via USB, as you'd be able to do more thorough tests, but via
USB is better than nothing. Direct would likely to be a desktop machine,
as few laptops have provision for more than one drive. (_Don't_ fit it
in place of the _only_ drive in another machine - that would likely
cause problems!)

**Q2** I _presume_, since it's 250G and someone said the BIOS suggests
it's a modern-ish laptop anyway, that it's a SATA drive (two short
connectors with L-shaped alignment guides, rather than one long two row
connector). **Q3** _Do_ you have a suitable desktop machine with
suitable extra ports to try it in? You might have to buy a SATA cable
(and if unlucky a power adapter cable too: for SATA, the power is on the
larger connector, and you _may_ only have the old four-pin connectors
spare). Or, if the desktop has a SATA DVD/CD drive, you could
temporarily borrow the connections from that.

I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the
desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra
drive, and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that
until we have the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection
to test it on (assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB
route.

[HB]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Please read and answer all - I know I tend to be wordy (as do most here
who are trying to help), but most questions I answer here are simple
yes-no answers, and they'll help us all considerably to help you. There
are only about three questions - in fact I'll number them **thus**.
[]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
_Does_ the poorly PC have a separate panel on the bottom that can be
removed to get at the hard drive?

I already removed it and made sure it went back in OK.

[]
OK, so that's eliminated one source of the problem. It wasn't _that_
likely, just it was easy to check. (Though I have had a machine where it
does slide out of contact occasionally!)
**Q1** Can you tell, by powering up and down with a finger on the drive
(or your ear close to it), whether it is actually spinning up? Not that if
you can't this proves that it isn't - some modern drives are very quiet
and vibration-free. But it's worth a try as it's easy to do. And if it is,
that still doesn't mean that it's working, just that it isn't stuck and
the motor runs.

I can hear it spin up an when the cooling fan starts. Both when not plugged
in so I know the battery is still good and taking a charge.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[If you can be _sure_ that it _isn't_ spinning, you've _probably_ found
the problem: I _suppose_ it _could_ be that the motherboard isn't telling
it to spin or providing power to it, but that's rare.]
Since you can get it out easily enough, the next stage is to do so and
connect it to another computer (obviously you _have_ another computer as
you're talking to us!) and see if _that_ can see it - ideally direct
rather than via USB, as you'd be able to do more thorough tests, but via
USB is better than nothing. Direct would likely to be a desktop machine,
as few laptops have provision for more than one drive. (_Don't_ fit it in
place of the _only_ drive in another machine - that would likely cause
problems!)

I don't know how to safely connect it to the desktop machine. The HDs are
very different sizes. And now with the W-10 forced updates, loss of OE6
because of them and my daughter complaining her favorite game is messed up
on the new HP laptop since the update, this W-7 is all that much more
valuable to me.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
**Q2** I _presume_, since it's 250G and someone said the BIOS suggests
it's a modern-ish laptop anyway, that it's a SATA drive (two short
connectors with L-shaped alignment guides, rather than one long two row
connector). **Q3** _Do_ you have a suitable desktop machine with suitable
extra ports to try it in? You might have to buy a SATA cable (and if
unlucky a power adapter cable too: for SATA, the power is on the larger
connector, and you _may_ only have the old four-pin connectors spare). Or,
if the desktop has a SATA DVD/CD drive, you could temporarily borrow the
connections from that.

There are two connecters to the HD in the Toshiba. I have no idea what I'm
doing when it comes to the hardware.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the
desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra drive,
and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that until we have
the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection to test it on
(assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB route.

I have zero computer parts on hand. I wouldn't know what I would need to
connect it to the DT or even where to try to connect it. It's a HP Pavilion
P7-1003W.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
--
"There are a great many people in the country today who, through no fault of
their own, are sane." - Monty Python's Flying Circus

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <p8ad1c$7t5$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@fake.com> writes:
[]

Post by HB
I can hear it spin up an when the cooling fan starts. Both when not plugged
in so I know the battery is still good and taking a charge.

So the HD is spinning. That's a start. (Unfortunately, a lot of the ways
they can go wrong don't involve the motor.)
[]

Post by HB
I don't know how to safely connect it to the desktop machine. The HDs are

If you mean physically, that's not a problem: desktop machines tend to
use 3.5" drives, laptops 2.5" ones (the figure refers to the diameter of
the actual platters inside the drive); making smaller hardware is more
difficult, so the manufacturers continue to make both sizes - obviously
space is limited in a laptop, so they have the smaller ones. Much larger
_capacities_ (currently, say, 3T and above) tend to only be available in
the 3.5" (desktop) size. Functionally, both are the same, and a computer
doesn't know whether it's using a 2.5" or a 3.5" drive.

See lower down for how to connect to the desktop.

Post by HB
very different sizes. And now with the W-10 forced updates, loss of OE6
because of them and my daughter complaining her favorite game is messed up
on the new HP laptop since the update, this W-7 is all that much more
valuable to me.

Ah, daughter's favourite game: that's important!
[]

Post by HB
There are two connecters to the HD in the Toshiba. I have no idea what I'm

I presume that's - looking at the drive when removed - one with about 7
fingers (that's the data one), and one with about 15 (power), each with
an L-shaped plastic guide around them.

Post by HB
doing when it comes to the hardware.

Inside the desktop machine, does its own hard drive also have two small
connectors, or a wide ribbon cable with about 40 wires? Or, does its
CD/DVD drive? If both of those are connected with wide ribbon cables,
read no further, as we'll have to use the USB route (which isn't
difficult).

If the desktop machine's own hard drive or CD/DVD drive has the same two
connectors, we're getting somewhere. Follow the cables to see where they
come from. The larger one will come from the power supply (big box at
one end of the case, where the power lead goes in); the smaller one will
go to the motherboard (main large board in the computer). [You probably
know those, but I'm describing in case not, and for anyone else reading
this thread who might not.]

To connect the drive, taken from the laptop, to the desktop:

EITHER:
Power (the larger one): look around in the case: hopefully, there'll be
a spare power connector (coming from the power supply, obviously, though
may be piggy-backed on other devices) that will fit the power connector
on the laptop drive. If there isn't, but there's one of the old Molex
four-large-sockets-in-nylon type, you'll need an adaptor.

Data (the smaller one): look at where the data cable from the existing
hard drive and/or CD/DVD drive goes into the motherboard; there should
be similar connectors nearby. Most SATA-capable motherboards have lots
of them - at least six seems to be common. They often come in pairs, in
the same plastic moulding. You need to connect the drive to one of those
- you'd probably need a SATA cable, unless the assemblers have been
_very_ generous and left you a spare.

OR:
If the CD/DVD drive is SATA (two small connectors rather than a wide
ribbon one), just disconnect those from the CD/DVD drive, and connect
them to the laptop drive. (Do so with the computer turned off!)

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the
desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra drive,
and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that until we have
the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection to test it on
(assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB route.

I have zero computer parts on hand. I wouldn't know what I would need to
connect it to the DT or even where to try to connect it. It's a HP Pavilion
P7-1003W.

[]
Well, as you'll see from above, you'd need a SATA cable and possibly a
power adapter cable, both of which should be cheap enough - or, if the
CD/DVD drive is SATA, which they mostly are these days, you won't need
_anything_.

[HB]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by HB
I can hear it spin up an when the cooling fan starts. Both when not plugged
in so I know the battery is still good and taking a charge.

So the HD is spinning. That's a start. (Unfortunately, a lot of the ways
they can go wrong don't involve the motor.)
[]

Post by HB
I don't know how to safely connect it to the desktop machine. The HDs are

If you mean physically, that's not a problem: desktop machines tend to use
3.5" drives, laptops 2.5" ones (the figure refers to the diameter of the
actual platters inside the drive); making smaller hardware is more
difficult, so the manufacturers continue to make both sizes - obviously
space is limited in a laptop, so they have the smaller ones. Much larger
_capacities_ (currently, say, 3T and above) tend to only be available in
the 3.5" (desktop) size. Functionally, both are the same, and a computer
doesn't know whether it's using a 2.5" or a 3.5" drive.
See lower down for how to connect to the desktop.

Post by HB
very different sizes. And now with the W-10 forced updates, loss of OE6
because of them and my daughter complaining her favorite game is messed up
on the new HP laptop since the update, this W-7 is all that much more
valuable to me.

Ah, daughter's favourite game: that's important!
[]

Post by HB
There are two connecters to the HD in the Toshiba. I have no idea what I'm

I presume that's - looking at the drive when removed - one with about 7
fingers (that's the data one), and one with about 15 (power), each with an
L-shaped plastic guide around them.

Post by HB
doing when it comes to the hardware.

Inside the desktop machine, does its own hard drive also have two small
connectors, or a wide ribbon cable with about 40 wires? Or, does its
CD/DVD drive? If both of those are connected with wide ribbon cables, read
no further, as we'll have to use the USB route (which isn't difficult).

I don't know because I never opened it. The last HP DT had the wide ribbon
cable. Then let's use the USB route because I really don't want to start
messing around iside the DT box. I tried using a Rescue disc my son made a
few years ago. Nothing happened. I downloaded something from the net, a MS
repair disc and that didn't work either.

Ubantu was an 8 GB download I don't have unlimited download data with
Verizon. It didn't look like anything that would boot a PC in the LT's
condition. There would be no way to execute it.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
If the desktop machine's own hard drive or CD/DVD drive has the same two
connectors, we're getting somewhere. Follow the cables to see where they
come from. The larger one will come from the power supply (big box at one
end of the case, where the power lead goes in); the smaller one will go to
the motherboard (main large board in the computer). [You probably know
those, but I'm describing in case not, and for anyone else reading this
thread who might not.]
Power (the larger one): look around in the case: hopefully, there'll be a
spare power connector (coming from the power supply, obviously, though may
be piggy-backed on other devices) that will fit the power connector on the
laptop drive. If there isn't, but there's one of the old Molex
four-large-sockets-in-nylon type, you'll need an adaptor.
Data (the smaller one): look at where the data cable from the existing
hard drive and/or CD/DVD drive goes into the motherboard; there should be
similar connectors nearby. Most SATA-capable motherboards have lots of
them - at least six seems to be common. They often come in pairs, in the
same plastic moulding. You need to connect the drive to one of those -
you'd probably need a SATA cable, unless the assemblers have been _very_
generous and left you a spare.
If the CD/DVD drive is SATA (two small connectors rather than a wide
ribbon one), just disconnect those from the CD/DVD drive, and connect them
to the laptop drive. (Do so with the computer turned off!)

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I'll stop there for now. The next question _would_ be **Q4** when the
desktop machine has booted (or does it boot?), does it see an extra drive,
and **Q5** can you look at what's on it. But I'll leave that until we have
the answer to Q3, as if you don't have a SATA connection to test it on
(assuming it _is_ a SATA drive), we'll have to go the USB route.

I have zero computer parts on hand. I wouldn't know what I would need to
connect it to the DT or even where to try to connect it. It's a HP Pavilion
P7-1003W.

[]
Well, as you'll see from above, you'd need a SATA cable and possibly a
power adapter cable, both of which should be cheap enough - or, if the
CD/DVD drive is SATA, which they mostly are these days, you won't need
_anything_.
--
computers don't solve problems; they help humans solve problems - Colin Barker,
Computing 1999-2-18, p. 21

[Paul]

Post by HB
Ubantu was an 8 GB download I don't have unlimited download data with
Verizon. It didn't look like anything that would boot a PC in the LT's
condition. There would be no way to execute it.

ubuntu-17.10-desktop-amd64.iso 1,501,102,080 bytes

You need a USB stick larger than that to hold it.

The distro called "UbuntuStudio" is larger than that,
because it contains all sorts of Audio Workstation applications.
I have a studio version here that is "2,752,020,480 bytes"
but you don't use that for working on busted laptops.

The above 1.5GB number is a rough idea of what
a typical Ubuntu download will cost you.

It's *not* an 8GB download.

Distros generally try to stay below the limits of a single layer DVD.

*******

The absolutely largest distro I've got here as an
ISO, is 4,641,318,912 bytes. It was made in the year
2007, and was an attempt by the FOSS community to impress
people with "how much free software there is". It's
like one of those 10,000 font "font collections" :-)
I would think it's getting close to the limits of
a single layer DVD and that's why they made it
that particular size.

The Gentoo folks made a 3GB one, whose main claim to fame
was the number of drivers on it. It had so many drivers,
it would take between 3 to 4 minutes to boot (it tries
all the drivers one at a time, turfing the ones not needed).
An exercise in futility.

So some of the latests "whales" were a kind of bloated
advertising. The "reasonable" choices can be between
CD size and 1.5GB.

If you don't own a DVD burner, use this.

https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=fatdog

Fatdog64-721.iso 2018-Jan-11 09:13:13 387MB application/octet-stream

That's like Puppy, but for more modern (64bit capable) machines.

But don't blame me if that doesn't have a nice
package manager and tool set. At least it fits on
a CD and would be suitable for a very quick "boot test".

Paul

[HB]

Post by Paul

Post by HB
Ubantu was an 8 GB download I don't have unlimited download data with
Verizon. It didn't look like anything that would boot a PC in the LT's
condition. There would be no way to execute it.

ubuntu-17.10-desktop-amd64.iso 1,501,102,080 bytes
You need a USB stick larger than that to hold it.
The distro called "UbuntuStudio" is larger than that,
because it contains all sorts of Audio Workstation applications.
I have a studio version here that is "2,752,020,480 bytes"
but you don't use that for working on busted laptops.
The above 1.5GB number is a rough idea of what
a typical Ubuntu download will cost you.
It's *not* an 8GB download.
Distros generally try to stay below the limits of a single layer DVD.
*******
The absolutely largest distro I've got here as an
ISO, is 4,641,318,912 bytes. It was made in the year
2007, and was an attempt by the FOSS community to impress
people with "how much free software there is". It's
like one of those 10,000 font "font collections" :-)
I would think it's getting close to the limits of
a single layer DVD and that's why they made it
that particular size.
The Gentoo folks made a 3GB one, whose main claim to fame
was the number of drivers on it. It had so many drivers,
it would take between 3 to 4 minutes to boot (it tries
all the drivers one at a time, turfing the ones not needed).
An exercise in futility.
So some of the latests "whales" were a kind of bloated
advertising. The "reasonable" choices can be between
CD size and 1.5GB.
If you don't own a DVD burner, use this.
https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=fatdog

I have a burner available. Thanks.

Post by Paul
Fatdog64-721.iso 2018-Jan-11 09:13:13 387MB
application/octet-stream
That's like Puppy, but for more modern (64bit capable) machines.
But don't blame me if that doesn't have a nice
package manager and tool set. At least it fits on
a CD and would be suitable for a very quick "boot test".
Paul

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

As usual, there may appear to be a lot here, but the three big chunks
are _alternatives_.
[]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Inside the desktop machine, does its own hard drive also have two small
connectors, or a wide ribbon cable with about 40 wires? Or, does its
CD/DVD drive? If both of those are connected with wide ribbon cables, read
no further, as we'll have to use the USB route (which isn't difficult).

I don't know because I never opened it. The last HP DT had the wide ribbon
cable. Then let's use the USB route because I really don't want to start
messing around iside the DT box.

OK. Notes on USB method follow lower.

Post by HB
I tried using a Rescue disc my son made a
few years ago. Nothing happened. I downloaded something from the net, a MS
repair disc and that didn't work either.

I suspect two possibilities here: either you (or your son) didn't burn
the CDs in the correct way that makes them bootable, or you didn't set
the boot order in the laptop so that it booted from them.

Post by HB
Ubantu was an 8 GB download I don't have unlimited download data with

See Paul's posts; UbUntu apparently isn't that big, nor any other Linux
available at the moment; they're all under a single-layer DVD's worth (4
point something G), some under a CD's worth.

Post by HB
Verizon. It didn't look like anything that would boot a PC in the LT's
condition. There would be no way to execute it.

If the CD/DVD is burned properly, and the BIOS in the LT set to boot
from the CD/DVD drive, then it should boot and load; it loads into RAM,
and runs from there.
[]
To access the LT HD from another computer via USB, you'll need a USB (or
eSATA, but only if all your computers have an eSATA socket) interface.

This is something you should get anyway, for future backup purposes.
(Along with, obviously, a drive big enough to hold several backup images
from your various computers. As you've discovered, System Restore is no
good if the drive dies, or if its files get corrupted sufficient that it
won't boot even as far as safe mode.) So getting it - whichever of the
three options you choose - isn't wasted money, even if we do find the LT
drive is faulty.

I know nothing of eSATA, so what follows is just USB. And prices are
probably wrong (I'm in the UK, so don't know my way round ebay USA [I
assume you're in USA]), so I'm really just providing these as links so
you can look at the pictures.

There are roughly three sorts of USB interface, though presumably they
mostly have similar electronics in them. For future-proofing you'd go
for ones that have USB3, but USB2 would be fine, just slower; it's
likely that at least some if not all of your other computers won't have
USB3 anyway. (If you do pay the extra for USB3, it should _work_ with
USB2 computers, just at USB2 speed. Though 3 is tending to come as
standard now anyway so _may_ not cost more.) With all three types, when
you put the drive into them, apply power to them, and connect them to
the PC you are going to use, the drive in the interface should appear on
that PC just as another drive letter in Windows Explorer (or letters if
it has more than one partition, other than hidden partitions). [It
_won't_ appear as C: - that computer's own drive will be C.] Just like
plugging in a memory stick or card. It should also appear under the
utility - either Windows' own or any other, such as EaseUS - that sorts
out partitions (where you _should_ be able to see any hidden ones).

Right, the three alternatives:

The best (IMO) for general work is a dock; this is a thing that sits on
your desk, comes with its own power supply, and connects to a PC via a
USB lead; it has one or more slots on top, into which you insert the
drive(s) you want to access. This is the model I have:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202052568442 - it does both IDE and SATA drives
(and has a card reader in it too, though I've never used it), and comes
- as you can see - with a power supply and USB lead. (And the little CD,
but I've never had to use that; it just worked as soon as I connected it
up.) It seems to be a common model. I paid something like
twentysomething pounds at a computer fair, and have seen them for 15 or
16 pounds online. You should be able to find a US seller: I just picked
that one as it has a nice clear picture. Although one of the pictures
shows 3.5" drives in it, it takes 2.5" ones just as well. Look at all
the pictures.

The next option is a "USB to SATA cable"; despite just being called a
cable, these do have electronics in them, though built into the plug, so
it's not obvious. Personally, I'd go for one like this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/172256326228 which can do IDE _and_ SATA and
comes with a power supply and all necessary cables (you want the SATA
[red] one and the power adapter one, as well as the USB "cable" itself)
- look at all the pictures; however, if you must save every dollar (I've
seen kits like the above for 5 or 6 pounds), just put "USB to SATA" into
ebay and you'll find hundreds of cables that just use USB power. If you
go for one of those, make sure it's one that has _two_ USB plugs (as the
power available from a single one may not be sufficient for the drive,
especially initial spinup).

The third option is an external housing - this sort of thing:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/112652273779 - last time I was involved in
buying one it was about 2 pounds, yes even including the little
screwdriver and the pouch! (I think ours had black rather than
transparent ends.) Again, make sure the USB cable has two plugs at the
computer end.

If you already have an external drive, you may be able to temporarily
take out the drive that's in it and fit your suspect one in its place.

[HB]

As usual, there may appear to be a lot here, but the three big chunks are
_alternatives_.
[]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Inside the desktop machine, does its own hard drive also have two small
connectors, or a wide ribbon cable with about 40 wires? Or, does its
CD/DVD drive? If both of those are connected with wide ribbon cables, read
no further, as we'll have to use the USB route (which isn't difficult).

I don't know because I never opened it. The last HP DT had the wide ribbon
cable. Then let's use the USB route because I really don't want to start
messing around iside the DT box.

OK. Notes on USB method follow lower.

Post by HB
I tried using a Rescue disc my son made a
few years ago. Nothing happened. I downloaded something from the net, a MS
repair disc and that didn't work either.

I suspect two possibilities here: either you (or your son) didn't burn the
CDs in the correct way that makes them bootable, or you didn't set the
boot order in the laptop so that it booted from them.

Probably, since there was no info involved on how to burn the DVDs. I guess
the site assumed everyone who would download them would know. As for making
DVDs from the PCs - there was just the MS popup or whatever it's called
about making the DVDs or TDs. I don't know why they bother having people
make useless DVDs if they don't boot the PC involved or explain how to do
it.

Post by HB
Ubantu was an 8 GB download I don't have unlimited download data with

See Paul's posts; UbUntu apparently isn't that big, nor any other Linux
available at the moment; they're all under a single-layer DVD's worth (4
point something G), some under a CD's worth.

I guess the download site was wrong. I took one look at the size and left
the site. Any Idea what to Google to find the smallest one to download that
may boot the Toshiba? This is frustrating beyond belief trying to do this
sight unseen, never watcing someone do it.

Post by HB
Verizon. It didn't look like anything that would boot a PC in the LT's
condition. There would be no way to execute it.

If the CD/DVD is burned properly, and the BIOS in the LT set to boot from
the CD/DVD drive, then it should boot and load; it loads into RAM, and
runs from there.
[]
To access the LT HD from another computer via USB, you'll need a USB (or
eSATA, but only if all your computers have an eSATA socket) interface.

I wouldn't know what they have.

This is something you should get anyway, for future backup purposes.
(Along with, obviously, a drive big enough to hold several backup images
from your various computers. As you've discovered, System Restore is no
good if the drive dies, or if its files get corrupted sufficient that it
won't boot even as far as safe mode.) So getting it - whichever of the
three options you choose - isn't wasted money, even if we do find the LT
drive is faulty.

How would they be set to replace the image of Windows OS and your files
should the BSOD happen to the PC? I can't find any way to do it with the
external Seagate I have. I'm not technically orientated at all. Every time
I plug it into the USB drive it loads the DT will all kinds of crap I no
longer even care about and have deleted from the PC. It took a few hours to
delete the unwanted crap from the Seagate. I don't bother with it anymore.
Why it puts hundreds of things on the DT is a mystery to me.

I know nothing of eSATA, so what follows is just USB. And prices are
probably wrong (I'm in the UK, so don't know my way round ebay USA [I
assume you're in USA]), so I'm really just providing these as links so you
can look at the pictures.
There are roughly three sorts of USB interface, though presumably they
mostly have similar electronics in them. For future-proofing you'd go for
ones that have USB3, but USB2 would be fine, just slower; it's likely that
at least some if not all of your other computers won't have USB3 anyway.
(If you do pay the extra for USB3, it should _work_ with USB2 computers,
just at USB2 speed. Though 3 is tending to come as standard now anyway so
_may_ not cost more.) With all three types, when you put the drive into
them, apply power to them, and connect them to the PC you are going to
use, the drive in the interface should appear on that PC just as another
drive letter in Windows Explorer (or letters if it has more than one
partition, other than hidden partitions). [It _won't_ appear as C: - that
computer's own drive will be C.] Just like plugging in a memory stick or
card. It should also appear under the utility - either Windows' own or any
other, such as EaseUS - that sorts out partitions (where you _should_ be
able to see any hidden ones).

When the TD is plugged it is shows below C: and D: with a list of folders if
they were sent to it.

The best (IMO) for general work is a dock; this is a thing that sits on
your desk, comes with its own power supply, and connects to a PC via a USB
lead; it has one or more slots on top, into which you insert the drive(s)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202052568442 - it does both IDE and SATA drives
(and has a card reader in it too, though I've never used it), and comes -
as you can see - with a power supply and USB lead. (And the little CD, but
I've never had to use that; it just worked as soon as I connected it up.)
It seems to be a common model. I paid something like twentysomething
pounds at a computer fair, and have seen them for 15 or 16 pounds online.
You should be able to find a US seller: I just picked that one as it has a
nice clear picture. Although one of the pictures shows 3.5" drives in it,
it takes 2.5" ones just as well. Look at all the pictures.
The next option is a "USB to SATA cable"; despite just being called a
cable, these do have electronics in them, though built into the plug, so
it's not obvious. Personally, I'd go for one like this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/172256326228 which can do IDE _and_ SATA and
comes with a power supply and all necessary cables (you want the SATA
[red] one and the power adapter one, as well as the USB "cable" itself) -
look at all the pictures; however, if you must save every dollar (I've
seen kits like the above for 5 or 6 pounds), just put "USB to SATA" into
ebay and you'll find hundreds of cables that just use USB power. If you go
for one of those, make sure it's one that has _two_ USB plugs (as the
power available from a single one may not be sufficient for the drive,
especially initial spinup).
https://www.ebay.com/itm/112652273779 - last time I was involved in buying
one it was about 2 pounds, yes even including the little screwdriver and
the pouch! (I think ours had black rather than transparent ends.) Again,
make sure the USB cable has two plugs at the computer end.
If you already have an external drive, you may be able to temporarily take
out the drive that's in it and fit your suspect one in its place.

I have an external Seagate which appears to be sealed. I don't see how the
HD itself can be removed.

Honestly, working on these computers isn't my thing. No one can remember
all this info. My time, my funds and my download data are limited which
doesn't help. I never though it would be this time consuming to try and
get the LT going again. So involved and so complicated. I was hoping
someone here knew a site to maybe download info for a reascue disc.
Something I could burn to a CD and see if I could get to Restore or do a
Recovery.

It's not that I don't ppreciate the info and help offered here, it's that I
never knew something like this could be so complicated and time consuming.

I'm the oldest woman on primetime not baking cakes.
- Anne Robinson, RT 2015/8/15-21

[Paul]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
Ubantu was an 8 GB download I don't have unlimited download data with

See Paul's posts; UbUntu apparently isn't that big, nor any other Linux
available at the moment; they're all under a single-layer DVD's worth (4
point something G), some under a CD's worth.

I guess the download site was wrong. I took one look at the size and left
the site. Any Idea what to Google to find the smallest one to download that
may boot the Toshiba? This is frustrating beyond belief trying to do this
sight unseen, never watcing someone do it.

The fatdog64 download is pretty small.

Here, I'm checking the SMART table on one of
the two hard drives.

Loading Image...

That's version 7.10 I got a while ago.

You can see the download sizes in advance, on the mirror server.
You can tell from the dates, when they were released.

http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/iso/

Paul

[HB]

Post by Paul
You can see the download sizes in advance, on the mirror server.
You can tell from the dates, when they were released.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/iso/

Which one do I download from the list? Any one of them?

Post by Paul
Paul

[Paul]

Post by HB

Post by Paul
You can see the download sizes in advance, on the mirror server.
You can tell from the dates, when they were released.
http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/iso/

Which one do I download from the list? Any one of them?

Post by Paul
Paul

The picture of the screen I took, was done with this version.

Fatdog64-710.iso 2016-Dec-03 10:04:55 360MB application/octet-stream

The latest release of the software is this one.

Fatdog64-721.iso 2018-Jan-11 09:13:13 387MB application/octet-stream

Either one would do, for the purposes of a boot test.

Paul

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by HB

I suspect two possibilities here: either you (or your son) didn't burn the
CDs in the correct way that makes them bootable, or you didn't set the
boot order in the laptop so that it booted from them.

Probably, since there was no info involved on how to burn the DVDs. I guess
the site assumed everyone who would download them would know. As for making

If they're .iso files, then yes, it's probably assumed you know to use
the correct option in your burning software.

Post by HB
DVDs from the PCs - there was just the MS popup or whatever it's called
about making the DVDs or TDs. I don't know why they bother having people
make useless DVDs if they don't boot the PC involved or explain how to do
it.

I've never used the "make recovery disc" option (or whatever it's
called) from Windows; I would hope that does lead you by the hand
through the process, probably without invoking any burning software at
all, i. e. the process of making the disc should itself prompt you when
to insert a blank disc and so on. Once you've made such a disc, it WILL
boot - though you may still have to alter the PC's boot order in its
BIOS.

Post by HB

Post by HB
Ubantu was an 8 GB download I don't have unlimited download data with

See Paul's posts; UbUntu apparently isn't that big, nor any other Linux
available at the moment; they're all under a single-layer DVD's worth (4
point something G), some under a CD's worth.

I guess the download site was wrong. I took one look at the size and left
the site. Any Idea what to Google to find the smallest one to download that
may boot the Toshiba? This is frustrating beyond belief trying to do this

Paul has suggested Puppy for older hardware, fatdog for newer, and has
given you a site to get fatdog at least from. Both of those will fit on
a CD, not a DVD.

Post by HB
sight unseen, never watcing someone do it.

(There are probably videos on YouTube, but they _can_ be worse than
useless.)
[]

Post by HB

If the CD/DVD is burned properly, and the BIOS in the LT set to boot from
the CD/DVD drive, then it should boot and load; it loads into RAM, and
runs from there.
[]
To access the LT HD from another computer via USB, you'll need a USB (or
eSATA, but only if all your computers have an eSATA socket) interface.

I wouldn't know what they have.

I shouldn't have mentioned that, as it just adds to the confusion. I'm
sure they all have USB sockets, so stick with those.

Post by HB

This is something you should get anyway, for future backup purposes.
(Along with, obviously, a drive big enough to hold several backup images
from your various computers. As you've discovered, System Restore is no
good if the drive dies, or if its files get corrupted sufficient that it
won't boot even as far as safe mode.) So getting it - whichever of the
three options you choose - isn't wasted money, even if we do find the LT
drive is faulty.

How would they be set to replace the image of Windows OS and your files
should the BSOD happen to the PC? I can't find any way to do it with the

When the time comes to restore from an image, assuming you have an HD in
the machine that actually works (either a new one you've bought, or the
existing one that works but what's on it is hopelessly corrupted):

You put the boot CD you made from the imaging drive in the tray; you
connect the drive that contains the image to a USB port; and you power
up. The imaging-software CD will boot, and run; you select the option in
it that says something like "restore from image", and tell it which
image file to restore from, and it does it.

But we're a long way from there at the moment. We need to get you back
to a working system first, so that you can _make_ an image of it. And to
do that, we still need to know whether the HD from your Toshiba laptop
is actually faulty, or has just got some corrupted files (or a corrupted
boot sector or corrupted partition table) on it. Until we know that,
we're some way from getting you back to a working system, let alone
imaging it.

Post by HB
external Seagate I have. I'm not technically orientated at all. Every time
I plug it into the USB drive it loads the DT will all kinds of crap I no
longer even care about and have deleted from the PC. It took a few hours to
delete the unwanted crap from the Seagate. I don't bother with it anymore.

If "every time you plug it in it loads" stuff, then you obviously
_haven't_ deleted it from the Seagate. (It can't load it if you've
deleted it.)

Post by HB
Why it puts hundreds of things on the DT is a mystery to me.

It may even be virus-infected.

Turn off autorun, autoplay, and anything like that, before connecting
it. Then connect it and format it.
[]

Post by HB
When the TD is plugged it is shows below C: and D: with a list of folders if
they were sent to it.

As E: or F: or whatever. (I'm guessing you haven't partitioned your HD
into more than one partition, so D: is your CD/DVD drive.)

Post by HB

The best (IMO) for general work is a dock; this is a thing that sits on
your desk, comes with its own power supply, and connects to a PC via a USB
lead; it has one or more slots on top, into which you insert the drive(s)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/202052568442 - it does both IDE and SATA drives

(In another post, you asked where you'd get a dock. The above link is
one such place.)
[]

Post by HB

The next option is a "USB to SATA cable"; despite just being called a
cable, these do have electronics in them, though built into the plug, so
it's not obvious. Personally, I'd go for one like this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/172256326228 which can do IDE _and_ SATA and

(And that's one place where you'd get such a "cable".)
[]

Post by HB

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112652273779 - last time I was involved in buying

(And that's one place where you'd get such a housing.)

In all these cases, I'd recommend you look around, on ebay or amazon, to
find a supplier in your country advertising something that looks like
the pictures in those listings; however, if you go with any of the
above, you _should_ get what's shown - they'll just take longer to come
than if you found a "local" supplier.
[]

Post by HB

If you already have an external drive, you may be able to temporarily take
out the drive that's in it and fit your suspect one in its place.

I have an external Seagate which appears to be sealed. I don't see how the
HD itself can be removed.

Look for tiny screws, or it might be a pop-together case - try
(carefully!) prising it. You might be right that it can't be opened:
I've never myself seen one that can't, but that doesn't mean they don't
exist - I've not looked at many that closely.

Post by HB
Honestly, working on these computers isn't my thing. No one can remember
all this info. My time, my funds and my download data are limited which
doesn't help. I never though it would be this time consuming to try and
get the LT going again. So involved and so complicated. I was hoping

Well, we're working at two disadvantages: like most people, you
_haven't_ made images of it before it went wrong; and, we're trying to
explain how to do things to someone who is having difficulty
understanding us. Most of the individual things we want (you) to do
aren't really that complicated, they just seem that way because there
are a lot of steps involved. The individual steps aren't hard, really
they aren't.

Post by HB
someone here knew a site to maybe download info for a reascue disc.
Something I could burn to a CD and see if I could get to Restore or do a
Recovery.

Maybe - I think at least one of Paul's posts suggested where you can get
a rescue disc for 7 (I'm pretty sure that would be a DVD rather than a
CD), but I'm not sure, as he's made lots of posts in this thread!

Do you perhaps know someone - friend/relation, neighbour, work
colleague, even the IT department where you work - who could lend you
either a rescue disc or an install disc for Windows 7? (I think you can
get to the Recovery Console from an install disc.)

Post by HB
It's not that I don't ppreciate the info and help offered here, it's that I
never knew something like this could be so complicated and time consuming.

It isn't that complicated once you grasp what we're trying to do at each
stage! Time consuming, yes. The first thing we're trying to do is
establish whether the HD is actually faulty or just corrupted.
[]

[HB]

[]

Post by HB

I suspect two possibilities here: either you (or your son) didn't burn the
CDs in the correct way that makes them bootable, or you didn't set the
boot order in the laptop so that it booted from them.

Probably, since there was no info involved on how to burn the DVDs. I guess
the site assumed everyone who would download them would know. As for making

If they're .iso files, then yes, it's probably assumed you know to use the
correct option in your burning software.

Post by HB
DVDs from the PCs - there was just the MS popup or whatever it's called
about making the DVDs or TDs. I don't know why they bother having people
make useless DVDs if they don't boot the PC involved or explain how to do
it.

I've never used the "make recovery disc" option (or whatever it's called)
from Windows; I would hope that does lead you by the hand through the
process, probably without invoking any burning software at all, i. e. the
process of making the disc should itself prompt you when to insert a blank
disc and so on. Once you've made such a disc, it WILL boot - though you
may still have to alter the PC's boot order in its BIOS.

The recovery for THIS PC and the Gamer HP LT are on TDs. No information was
given, just to insert and click and it did it by itself.

Paul has suggested Puppy for older hardware, fatdog for newer, and has
given you a site to get fatdog at least from. Both of those will fit on a
CD, not a DVD.

There's a long list there with no explination as to which to use for W-7.

Post by HB
How would they be set to replace the image of Windows OS and your files
should the BSOD happen to the PC? I can't find any way to do it with the

When the time comes to restore from an image, assuming you have an HD in
the machine that actually works (either a new one you've bought, or the
You put the boot CD you made from the imaging drive in the tray; you
connect the drive that contains the image to a USB port; and you power up.
The imaging-software CD will boot, and run; you select the option in it
that says something like "restore from image", and tell it which image
file to restore from, and it does it.

OK... I'll download the 1st on Paul's list and see what happens. I'll make
sure it burns as an ISO.

Post by HB
external Seagate I have. I'm not technically orientated at all. Every time

If "every time you plug it in it loads" stuff, then you obviously
_haven't_ deleted it from the Seagate. (It can't load it if you've deleted
it.)

I understood that if it was deleted from the PC, SG would not copy it again
in the next update. But it appears to copy the new files and adds them to
the old, whether they're on my PC or not anymore. WTH... I'll just clean it
off when I get the time and start again.

Post by HB
Why it puts hundreds of things on the DT is a mystery to me.

It may even be virus-infected.

LOL!!! That would be just my luck.

Turn off autorun, autoplay, and anything like that, before connecting it.
Then connect it and format it.

I have to connect it as here is no way to do anything with it unil it's
plugged into the USB port.

[]

Post by HB
When the TD is plugged it is shows below C: and D: with a list of folders if
they were sent to it.

As E: or F: or whatever. (I'm guessing you haven't partitioned your HD
into more than one partition, so D: is your CD/DVD drive.)

C: is the OS on this old W-7 DT.
D: is the Recovery drive and
E: is the DVD RW drive, and there's an
F: that says Boot, System Volume Information and Recycle Bin.

We'll put the docking on hold for awhile. I need to get this Toshiba either
running or recycle so I can tackle the next issues with the other PCs again.

Look for tiny screws, or it might be a pop-together case - try
(carefully!) prising it. You might be right that it can't be opened: I've
never myself seen one that can't, but that doesn't mean they don't exist -
I've not looked at many that closely.

Once opened, if that's possible, what would the next step be?

Post by HB
Honestly, working on these computers isn't my thing. No one can remember
all this info. My time, my funds and my download data are limited which
doesn't help. I never though it would be this time consuming to try and
get the LT going again. So involved and so complicated. I was hoping

Well, we're working at two disadvantages: like most people, you _haven't_
made images of it before it went wrong; and, we're trying to explain how
to do things to someone who is having difficulty understanding us. Most of
the individual things we want (you) to do aren't really that complicated,
they just seem that way because there are a lot of steps involved. The
individual steps aren't hard, really they aren't.

I'm trying.

Post by HB
someone here knew a site to maybe download info for a reascue disc.
Something I could burn to a CD and see if I could get to Restore or do a
Recovery.

Maybe - I think at least one of Paul's posts suggested where you can get a
rescue disc for 7 (I'm pretty sure that would be a DVD rather than a CD),
but I'm not sure, as he's made lots of posts in this thread!

Yes he did but it's out or warranty and the Serial number was rejected.

Do you perhaps know someone - friend/relation, neighbour, work colleague,
even the IT department where you work - who could lend you either a rescue
disc or an install disc for Windows 7? (I think you can get to the
Recovery Console from an install disc.)

I should be so lucky. We're not living here long enough to have friends and
to know who's good with computers. What about the TD with the copy of this
DT PC? The one the popups had me make when it was new. Would that work?
They're about the same age, both W-7 64 bit.

It isn't that complicated once you grasp what we're trying to do at each
stage! Time consuming, yes. The first thing we're trying to do is
establish whether the HD is actually faulty or just corrupted.

I understand that. If fatdog don't boot it it could still be something I'm
messing up. I'm downloading the 1st one on the list since I know nothing
abou this softwaer. I'll burn it as a OSI and see if the Toshiba will boot
from it.

[HB]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
It isn't that complicated once you grasp what we're trying to do at each
stage! Time consuming, yes. The first thing we're trying to do is
establish whether the HD is actually faulty or just corrupted.
[]

I have no idea what any of this means:

I burned it to a disc (Puppy), turned the Toshiba on, and it says this:

done (in green, upper right hand corner.)
Loading drivers needed to access disk drives. Searching for Puppy files in
computer disk drives. (The in RED is says), fd64-500. sfs not found.
Dropping out to intitial-ramdisk console. /bin/sh :can't acess tty; job
control turned off # -

That's it with Puppy. What next?

[HB]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
It isn't that complicated once you grasp what we're trying to do at each
stage! Time consuming, yes. The first thing we're trying to do is
establish whether the HD is actually faulty or just corrupted.
[]

I reburned puppy500 with a different Burner, making sure TWICE it was set to
OSI, but the result was the same.

It seems to need fd64-500.sfs which wasn't found. I have no idea what tty
is.

What's going wrong?

[Rene Lamontagne]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
It isn't that complicated once you grasp what we're trying to do at each
stage! Time consuming, yes. The first thing we're trying to do is
establish whether the HD is actually faulty or just corrupted.
[]

I reburned puppy500 with a different Burner, making sure TWICE it was set to
OSI, but the result was the same.
It seems to need fd64-500.sfs which wasn't found. I have no idea what tty
is.
What's going wrong?

OK, I will jump in and try to help, What you need to download is
Fatdog64-721.ISO,
second from the bottom on Pauls index page. that should get you on track


Rene

[Paul]

Post by HB

Post by Wolf K
f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.

It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen.
There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention
Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot
Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration.
These are images that I found of what I'm seeing for the most part. They're
the closest but not exactly the same.
https://www.google.com/search?q=InsydeH20setup+utility&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-ifiU0ejZAhUQjlkKHX6XA1MQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1408&bih=625
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info says
to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen and a
annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.

InsydeH20 is a *BIOS* company.

Pressing F2 or F8 or F12 early after the power
comes on, caused you to drop into the BIOS.

After the flashing "_" appears in the upper left
hand corner of an otherwise black screen, is the
OS booting. At that point, some of the older OSes
would accept pressing of F8 to enter the
Safe Mode OS menu.

The timing of the key press is critical. On
a machine with a BIOS which happens to use F8, you
will end up in the BIOS if your timing is not
perfect. And if you're late during the OS boot
phase, the OS will (attempt) to boot in regular mode.

On the modern OSes, you can use BCDEdit from the
OS installer DVD or from the emergency boot CD,
use the Command Prompt window there, to set a BCD
option to cause the machine to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.

However, if the booting bits of your OS are
corrupted, it might never even get a chance
to consider your presses of F8, or your
entreaty via the BCD, to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.

*******

As an example:

1) Boot the computer using the Windows 7 SP1 installer DVD.
Select the troubleshooting options, rather than anything
related to installation. That might require accepting the
"language" screen when it comes up, but after that, there
should be a button for Troubleshooting. This gives a
Command Prompt window.

2) Look at Option 3 here.

https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/69585-safe-mode.html

bcdedit # review the details
# sometimes a refusal to boot is
# caused by a blank entry for a volume

bcdedit /set {current} safeboot minimal # Add the entry to BCD

bcdedit # Verify it looks correct

3) Type "exit" in Command Prompt or close the window,
then allow the machine to boot to the hard drive.

I don't know why you're heading to Safe Mode, what you have
in mind, but that's an example of doing it.

To remove it later, you can repeat the above approach from
a Windows Administrator (elevated) Command Prompt window.

bcdedit # review the details
# Make sure the menu item is in "Current"

bcdedit /deletevalue {current} safeboot

Some of the BCD options can also be neutered by "/set"
to a benign value, and then you don't even need to
deletevalue to switch them off. BCD also has
options where it has Booleans, and True and False
are synonyms for Yes and No.

The nice thing about BCDEdit, is a hell of a lot of
nice examples have been written and documented since
Vista came out. And working with the BCD (from an
emergency boot CD or from an installer DVD), no longer
has to be "mysterious". The sevenforums site has
recipes. Not all the recipes are "most useful",
and the reason I selected the Option 3 from the
above one, is a lot of what we do here is "emergency"
edits, where the user can no longer use the regular
OS to edit stuff.

You can do offline edits (edit the BCD on other drives
in the computer), using the /store option.

bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True

When you do stuff like that, it's up to you to use
the "dir" command to actually verify the drive lettering,
since drives get different lettering in virtually every
environment you work in.

That particular command there, happens to be a favorite of
mine, because it adds a "WinXP style black boot menu" to
OSes like Windows 10 :-) Just ignoring the two OS boot
choices here, there *is* a row on the screen that says
to "press F8", so this menu just happens to give you
access to all the Safe Mode options. I want this window
for the "press F8" option, not because the OS boot
choices look pretty or something. This is how I get to
Safe Mode. The black screen sits there for 30 seconds,
giving plenty of time to make a single press of F8.

https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22455-enable-disable-f8-advanced-boot-options-windows-10-a.html

bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True # booted from emergency CD
bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True # From regular OS cmd.exe

HTH,
Paul

[HB]

Post by Paul

Post by HB

Post by Wolf K
f8 or f2 access BIOS, _not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.

It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen.
There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention
Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot
Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration.
These are images that I found of what I'm seeing for the most part.
They're the closest but not exactly the same.
https://www.google.com/search?q=InsydeH20setup+utility&client=firefox-b-1&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj-ifiU0ejZAhUQjlkKHX6XA1MQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1408&bih=625
I'm going by what I found on the net. None of the F keys brings up the
screen I'm familiar with where Safe Mode is a choice. The online info
says to tap F8 as the PC comes on but all that gets me is a black screen
and a annoying beeping sound when a key is pressed.

InsydeH20 is a *BIOS* company.
Pressing F2 or F8 or F12 early after the power
comes on, caused you to drop into the BIOS.
After the flashing "_" appears in the upper left
hand corner of an otherwise black screen, is the
OS booting. At that point, some of the older OSes
would accept pressing of F8 to enter the
Safe Mode OS menu.

That didn't work. No menu. No choice of Safe Mode.

Post by Paul
The timing of the key press is critical. On
a machine with a BIOS which happens to use F8, you
will end up in the BIOS if your timing is not
perfect. And if you're late during the OS boot
phase, the OS will (attempt) to boot in regular mode.
On the modern OSes, you can use BCDEdit from the
OS installer DVD or from the emergency boot CD,
use the Command Prompt window there, to set a BCD
option to cause the machine to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.

This Toshiba was given to me with nothing - no CD and no emergency boot
disc.

Post by Paul
However, if the booting bits of your OS are
corrupted, it might never even get a chance
to consider your presses of F8, or your
entreaty via the BCD, to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.
*******
1) Boot the computer using the Windows 7 SP1 installer DVD.
Select the troubleshooting options, rather than anything
related to installation. That might require accepting the
"language" screen when it comes up, but after that, there
should be a button for Troubleshooting. This gives a
Command Prompt window.

I have no discs for the computer. I didn't get any with the last few NEW
computers I bought either. Discs seem to be a thing of the past. The last
disc I got with a PC was for WXP years ago.

Post by Paul
2) Look at Option 3 here.
https://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/69585-safe-mode.html
bcdedit # review the details
# sometimes a refusal to boot is
# caused by a blank entry for a volume
bcdedit /set {current} safeboot minimal # Add the entry to BCD
bcdedit # Verify it looks correct

HP Pavillian.

Post by Paul
3) Type "exit" in Command Prompt or close the window,
then allow the machine to boot to the hard drive.
I don't know why you're heading to Safe Mode, what you have
in mind, but that's an example of doing it.

I wanted to get into SM to do a system recovery so the black screen of death
didn't occur again. How do I do that with no discs? F8 doesn't bring up
Advanced Boot Options anymore.

Post by Paul
To remove it later, you can repeat the above approach from
a Windows Administrator (elevated) Command Prompt window.
bcdedit # review the details
# Make sure the menu item is in "Current"
bcdedit /deletevalue {current} safeboot
Some of the BCD options can also be neutered by "/set"
to a benign value, and then you don't even need to
deletevalue to switch them off. BCD also has
options where it has Booleans, and True and False
are synonyms for Yes and No.
The nice thing about BCDEdit, is a hell of a lot of
nice examples have been written and documented since
Vista came out. And working with the BCD (from an
emergency boot CD or from an installer DVD), no longer
has to be "mysterious". The sevenforums site has
recipes. Not all the recipes are "most useful",
and the reason I selected the Option 3 from the
above one, is a lot of what we do here is "emergency"
edits, where the user can no longer use the regular
OS to edit stuff.
You can do offline edits (edit the BCD on other drives
in the computer), using the /store option.
bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True
When you do stuff like that, it's up to you to use
the "dir" command to actually verify the drive lettering,
since drives get different lettering in virtually every
environment you work in.
That particular command there, happens to be a favorite of
mine, because it adds a "WinXP style black boot menu" to
OSes like Windows 10 :-) Just ignoring the two OS boot
choices here, there *is* a row on the screen that says
to "press F8", so this menu just happens to give you
access to all the Safe Mode options. I want this window
for the "press F8" option, not because the OS boot
choices look pretty or something. This is how I get to
Safe Mode. The black screen sits there for 30 seconds,
giving plenty of time to make a single press of F8.
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/22455-enable-disable-f8-advanced-boot-options-windows-10-a.html
bcdedit /store C:\boot\BCD /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True #
booted from emergency CD
bcdedit /set {bootmgr} displaybootmenu True #
From regular OS cmd.exe
HTH,
Paul

You're assuming F8 works and I can get to that menu when I cannot or I would
not be here. I could have done the System Restore and that would have been
the end of it. F8 doesn't bring up Advanced Boot Options anymore and there
are no discs that came with the Toshiba. How do I get that menu to come up
when F8 doesn't do it and there are no discs?

[Paul]

Post by HB
This Toshiba was given to me with nothing - no CD and no emergency boot
disc.

The Heidoc URL generator is still down, for obtaining retail
Windows 7 SP1 discs.

https://www.heidoc.net/joomla/technology-science/microsoft/67-microsoft-windows-iso-download-tool

It's hard to say whether that designer will be able to get it
fixed again.

This is the result of running the current version (5.29).

Loading Image...

Heidoc doesn't host the ISO files. It merely generates a URL
for a microsoft folder that contains the ISO. The URL (like other
Microsoft dynamic downloads) is only valid for 24 hours once
the URL is generated.

The "trick" for getting Windows 7 is broken right now, and
who knows whether it can ever be fixed.

*******

The second source of ISO files, is DigitalRiver, who is a
software seller, and they worked with Microsoft. And their
download servers were "open" and people used to get copies
of particular Windows 7 SKUs that way. I got a Home Premium x64
for my laptop that way. The DigitalRiver OS server has been closed
for several years now.

*******

If you have multiple computers, if one of them has a Retail
Win7 license key, you can use that with the official Microsoft
download page. Say for example, you had a desktop with Win7 Ultimate.
Take the license key from that, enter it on this page, and
order up a Win7 SP1 Home Premium for your laptop. All you need
is one good key, to download any SKU you need for Win7.
(You can change the country-code here from en-ca to whatever
country you're in. To make things nice and tidy. Like en-us
or en-gb and so on.)

https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/software-download/windows7

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who has an OS to repair,
deserves an ISO to use, and this "license entry" idea is
for the birds. We don't want to rely on MSDN-inspired
Torrents for our install DVDs, now do we ? :-)

*******

It's quite possible the laptop has a restore partition,
which could also put the original OS back, whatever that
OS might be. It all depends on whether the hard drive was
ever replaced at some point, as to whether it's still
there.

Paul

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by HB

Post by Paul
After the flashing "_" appears in the upper left
hand corner of an otherwise black screen, is the
OS booting. At that point, some of the older OSes

I think we've established that it isn't.

Post by HB

Post by Paul
would accept pressing of F8 to enter the
Safe Mode OS menu.

That didn't work. No menu. No choice of Safe Mode.

[]

Post by HB

Post by Paul
On the modern OSes, you can use BCDEdit from the
OS installer DVD or from the emergency boot CD,
use the Command Prompt window there, to set a BCD
option to cause the machine to stop at the
Safe Mode screen.

This Toshiba was given to me with nothing - no CD and no emergency boot
disc.

That's normal, and has been for quite a long time. Usually on first use,
it would have suggested you make some sort of recovery discs, and told
you how to do so, but most users turn off those nags after a while.
Since you weren't the first user, you never saw those nags.
[]

Post by HB
I have no discs for the computer. I didn't get any with the last few NEW
computers I bought either. Discs seem to be a thing of the past. The last
disc I got with a PC was for WXP years ago.

You were lucky! I didn't with my XP machine. I think supply of CDs with
computers started to die out in the '98/'95 era.
[]

Post by HB
HP Pavillian.

Pavilion I suspect (-:
[]

Post by HB

Post by Paul
I don't know why you're heading to Safe Mode, what you have
in mind, but that's an example of doing it.

I wanted to get into SM to do a system recovery so the black screen of death
didn't occur again. How do I do that with no discs? F8 doesn't bring up
Advanced Boot Options anymore.

[]

Post by HB
You're assuming F8 works and I can get to that menu when I cannot or I would
not be here. I could have done the System Restore and that would have been
the end of it. F8 doesn't bring up Advanced Boot Options anymore and there
are no discs that came with the Toshiba. How do I get that menu to come up
when F8 doesn't do it and there are no discs?

As you've discovered the hard way, System Restore is no protection
against hard disc failure, and little protection against important file
corruption - because the computer needs to be able to boot up to the
point where you can invoke Safe Mode at least, in order to _do_ a System
Restore. While System Restore _is_ more use than some here think, you
really need to be creating an image (on an external disc, or DVDs
[lots!] or memory stick) of your important partitions, using something
like Macrium or Acronis (both are free, as are others) - and also making
the CD that those can make, so you can boot from that CD in order to
restore the image. But we'll get to that much later - we've got to get
you back to a working system first!

[HB]

Brevity snip

[]

Post by HB
You're assuming F8 works and I can get to that menu when I cannot or I would
not be here. I could have done the System Restore and that would have been
the end of it. F8 doesn't bring up Advanced Boot Options anymore and there
are no discs that came with the Toshiba. How do I get that menu to come up
when F8 doesn't do it and there are no discs?

As you've discovered the hard way, System Restore is no protection against
hard disc failure, and little protection against important file
corruption - because the computer needs to be able to boot up to the point
where you can invoke Safe Mode at least, in order to _do_ a System
Restore. While System Restore _is_ more use than some here think, you
really need to be creating an image (on an external disc, or DVDs [lots!]
or memory stick) of your important partitions, using something like
Macrium or Acronis (both are free, as are others) - and also making the CD
that those can make, so you can boot from that CD in order to restore the
image. But we'll get to that much later - we've got to get you back to a
working system first!

This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"? One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied onto a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea. There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.

--
Illinc fui et illud feci, habe tunicam?

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by HB
Brevity snip

(-:
[]

Post by HB
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"?

Assuming they _have_ the ability to make one, the way to do so will vary
from make to make and probably model to model. Get the manual (if you
didn't get one with, and you may well not have, it should be
downloadable as a .pdf [usually] from the manufacturer's website), and -
if it isn't obvious from the contents list - search it for the word
recovery or emergency.

Just doing that for this Toshiba Portégé: the manual suggests there's
something called Recovery Media Creator, which should be visible from
the Start menu. I can't see it! However, I have found Start > Programs >
Maintenance > Create a System Repair Disc. Have you anything similar?
(The route to it may be different, especially on 10 [I'm on 7 with
Classic Shell]; perhaps typing Repair Disc [or disk!] into the search
box on your 10 may find it.)

I've just tried running it: it looks like it might be a Microsoft thing
rather than Toshiba. It asks me to select the drive (there's only the
one optical drive in this machine) and put a blank disk in, and tells me
"A system repair disc can be used to boot your computer. It also
contains Windows system recovery tools that can help you recover Windows
from a serious error or restore your computer from a system image." I
haven't proceeded further.

On the whole, I think a third-party imaging tool, Like Macrium or
Acronis (both free), with the boot CD they allow you to make, along with
just copying (or using something like SyncToy), is better. (I image C:
and any hidden partitions, and just copy/sync. my D: [data] partition.)
The reason being that these restore everything exactly how you had it -
including all the software you've installed, including all the tweaks to
both the OS and the software you've done over the years; whereas using
recovery tools _can_ alter things, in the extreme returning to as-new,
losing all your software (and possibly data). You put the image - and
data copy - on an external disc.

Post by HB
One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these

I know little about tablets; if you even can make recovery software for
those, I don't know how you'd use it, as they don't have an optical
drive. The notebook I assume _does_ have such a drive.

Post by HB
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied onto a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea. There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.

I imagine you turn it on with the thumbdrive plugged in. You might have
to amend the boot order in the BIOS so that it boots from USB first.
$900 sounds a lot for a laptop - or even a desktop for that matter!
[]

[S***@gmail.com]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
Brevity snip

[]

Post by HB
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"?

Assuming they _have_ the ability to make one, the way to do so will vary
from make to make and probably model to model. Get the manual (if you
didn't get one with, and you may well not have, it should be downloadable
as a .pdf [usually] from the manufacturer's website), and - if it isn't
obvious from the contents list - search it for the word recovery or
emergency.

Looks like I found it. I'll be making some DVDs later tonight for this HP
W-10 Notebook.

Back to the Toshiba.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Just doing that for this Toshiba Portégé: the manual suggests there's
something called Recovery Media Creator, which should be visible from the
Start menu. I can't see it! However, I have found Start > Programs >
Maintenance > Create a System Repair Disc. Have you anything similar? (The
route to it may be different, especially on 10 [I'm on 7 with Classic
Shell]; perhaps typing Repair Disc [or disk!] into the search box on your
10 may find it.)

The Toshiba is W-7, also has Classic Shell installed, is dead in the water.
All I can get is the F12 screen that is basically useless at this point.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've just tried running it: it looks like it might be a Microsoft thing
rather than Toshiba. It asks me to select the drive (there's only the one
optical drive in this machine) and put a blank disk in, and tells me "A
system repair disc can be used to boot your computer. It also contains
Windows system recovery tools that can help you recover Windows from a
serious error or restore your computer from a system image." I haven't
proceeded further.

I wish I had one of those. I never thought to look for a way to make a
rescue or boot disk for the Toshiba.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On the whole, I think a third-party imaging tool, Like Macrium or Acronis
(both free), with the boot CD they allow you to make, along with just
copying (or using something like SyncToy), is better. (I image C: and any
hidden partitions, and just copy/sync. my D: [data] partition.) The reason
being that these restore everything exactly how you had it - including all
the software you've installed, including all the tweaks to both the OS and
the software you've done over the years; whereas using recovery tools
_can_ alter things, in the extreme returning to as-new, losing all your
software (and possibly data). You put the image - and data copy - on an
external disc.

I remember having something like that years ago. But when the black screen
with the blinker occured, it didn't work. Nothing worked. There was no way
to make the PC SEE the drive and respond. It didn't work as advertised. I
may as well have inserted a pancake in the drive. I have everything of value
on the Toshiba saved to a thumbdrive. I need some kind of emergency boot
disc for the Toshiba but was unable to find anything online to download and
burn to a DC or DVD. I'm going to check these two out later. Macrium and
Acronis.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these

I know little about tablets; if you even can make recovery software for
those, I don't know how you'd use it, as they don't have an optical drive.
The notebook I assume _does_ have such a drive.

The Tablet has a USB port. The Notebook the usual optical drive.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied onto a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea.
There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.

I imagine you turn it on with the thumbdrive plugged in. You might have to
amend the boot order in the BIOS so that it boots from USB first. $900
sounds a lot for a laptop - or even a desktop for that matter!

It's a HP I bought 2 or 3 years ago mainly for the kids since it has some
kind of special sofware that makes it very fast. It was recommended for
gamers. I got it at Best Buy. It has 12GBs memory and a 1TB HD. They love
it.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
--

BTW, I 'm acessing OE6 from a thumbdrive. An ancient free version RunasXP
was going away a few years back.

Microsoft motto "if it ain't broke keep fixing it till it is."

[HB]

Sorry for the confusion. This is HB. :^)

Post by S***@gmail.com

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
Brevity snip

[]

Post by HB
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"?

Assuming they _have_ the ability to make one, the way to do so will vary
from make to make and probably model to model. Get the manual (if you
didn't get one with, and you may well not have, it should be downloadable
as a .pdf [usually] from the manufacturer's website), and - if it isn't
obvious from the contents list - search it for the word recovery or
emergency.

Looks like I found it. I'll be making some DVDs later tonight for this HP
W-10 Notebook.
Back to the Toshiba.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Just doing that for this Toshiba Portégé: the manual suggests there's
something called Recovery Media Creator, which should be visible from the
Start menu. I can't see it! However, I have found Start > Programs >
Maintenance > Create a System Repair Disc. Have you anything similar?
(The route to it may be different, especially on 10 [I'm on 7 with
Classic Shell]; perhaps typing Repair Disc [or disk!] into the search box
on your 10 may find it.)

The Toshiba is W-7, also has Classic Shell installed, is dead in the
water. All I can get is the F12 screen that is basically useless at this
point.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've just tried running it: it looks like it might be a Microsoft thing
rather than Toshiba. It asks me to select the drive (there's only the one
optical drive in this machine) and put a blank disk in, and tells me "A
system repair disc can be used to boot your computer. It also contains
Windows system recovery tools that can help you recover Windows from a
serious error or restore your computer from a system image." I haven't
proceeded further.

I wish I had one of those. I never thought to look for a way to make a
rescue or boot disk for the Toshiba.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On the whole, I think a third-party imaging tool, Like Macrium or Acronis
(both free), with the boot CD they allow you to make, along with just
copying (or using something like SyncToy), is better. (I image C: and any
hidden partitions, and just copy/sync. my D: [data] partition.) The
reason being that these restore everything exactly how you had it -
including all the software you've installed, including all the tweaks to
both the OS and the software you've done over the years; whereas using
recovery tools _can_ alter things, in the extreme returning to as-new,
losing all your software (and possibly data). You put the image - and
data copy - on an external disc.

I remember having something like that years ago. But when the black screen
with the blinker occured, it didn't work. Nothing worked. There was no
way to make the PC SEE the drive and respond. It didn't work as
advertised. I may as well have inserted a pancake in the drive. I have
everything of value on the Toshiba saved to a thumbdrive. I need some
kind of emergency boot disc for the Toshiba but was unable to find
anything online to download and burn to a DC or DVD. I'm going to check
these two out later. Macrium and
Acronis.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these

I know little about tablets; if you even can make recovery software for
those, I don't know how you'd use it, as they don't have an optical
drive. The notebook I assume _does_ have such a drive.

The Tablet has a USB port. The Notebook the usual optical drive.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied onto a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea.
There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.

I imagine you turn it on with the thumbdrive plugged in. You might have
to amend the boot order in the BIOS so that it boots from USB first. $900
sounds a lot for a laptop - or even a desktop for that matter!

It's a HP I bought 2 or 3 years ago mainly for the kids since it has some
kind of special sofware that makes it very fast. It was recommended for
gamers. I got it at Best Buy. It has 12GBs memory and a 1TB HD. They love
it.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
--

BTW, I 'm acessing OE6 from a thumbdrive. An ancient free version RunasXP
was going away a few years back.
Microsoft motto "if it ain't broke keep fixing it till it is."

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by S***@gmail.com

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
Brevity snip

[]

Post by HB
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"?

Assuming they _have_ the ability to make one, the way to do so will vary
from make to make and probably model to model. Get the manual (if you
didn't get one with, and you may well not have, it should be downloadable
as a .pdf [usually] from the manufacturer's website), and - if it isn't
obvious from the contents list - search it for the word recovery or
emergency.

Looks like I found it. I'll be making some DVDs later tonight for this HP
W-10 Notebook.

Good. Though remember that they _might_ only give you the option of
returning to as-new, so continue to certainly back up your data, and
ideally also image your C:.

Post by S***@gmail.com
Back to the Toshiba.

[]

Post by S***@gmail.com
The Toshiba is W-7, also has Classic Shell installed, is dead in the water.
All I can get is the F12 screen that is basically useless at this point.

Yes, obviously to get any sort of shell, the system has to load from the
hard disc.
[]

Post by S***@gmail.com
I wish I had one of those. I never thought to look for a way to make a
rescue or boot disk for the Toshiba.

Assuming we get it working, I imagine you now _will_ look for it. But

Post by S***@gmail.com

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On the whole, I think a third-party imaging tool, Like Macrium or Acronis
(both free), with the boot CD they allow you to make, along with just
copying (or using something like SyncToy), is better. (I image C: and any
hidden partitions, and just copy/sync. my D: [data] partition.) The reason
being that these restore everything exactly how you had it - including all
the software you've installed, including all the tweaks to both the OS and
the software you've done over the years; whereas using recovery tools
_can_ alter things, in the extreme returning to as-new, losing all your
software (and possibly data). You put the image - and data copy - on an
external disc.

I remember having something like that years ago. But when the black screen
with the blinker occured, it didn't work. Nothing worked. There was no way
to make the PC SEE the drive and respond. It didn't work as advertised. I

When you say no way to make it see the drive, I suspect _either_ you
haven't set it to boot from the CD/DVD drive before the hard drive, _or_
you haven't burned the DVDs in the correct manner that makes them
bootable.

As an outside possibility, the HD could be so badly faulty that just by
being there, it's stopping the PC working properly at all - overloading
the power supply, or something. But I think this is highly unlikely,
since you have (sometimes!) seen the BIOS boot screens. Nevertheless,
you can _try_ booting (powering on) the PC with the hard disc removed,
and one of the bootable CDs (a Windows 7 disc, a Windows 7 recovery
disc, a Linux self-boot disc, a Macrium or Acronis disc, ...) in the DVD
drive: you wouldn't be able to repair the HD, but that should at least
show whether the HD was faulty enough to prevent booting. But I don't
think that is the case - I think the reason it's not booting from one of
those DVDs is one (or both) of the reasons in the above paragraph.

Post by S***@gmail.com
may as well have inserted a pancake in the drive. I have everything of value
on the Toshiba saved to a thumbdrive. I need some kind of emergency boot
disc for the Toshiba but was unable to find anything online to download and
burn to a DC or DVD. I'm going to check these two out later. Macrium and
Acronis.

Although they make a bootable disc, that disc is intended to be used to
(either make or restore from) an image; if you don't have such an image
to restore from, booting from a Macrium (or Acronis0 disc won't get you
anywhere.

When you say you have "everything of value" saved, you mean presumably
all that _you_ have created, which most people call your data. As you've
discovered, the OS is also of value. Making an image with Macrium (of C:
and any hidden partitions) would allow you to restore, either to the
existing disc if it's OK hardware-wise or to a new one if you have to
buy a new one. the system to exactly as it was when you made the image.
Without such an image, you have to reinstall the OS, and any software,
and get all the updates that have come out since the disc you reinstall
it from was made, and do all the tweaks to both the OS and any installed
software to get them back how you had them - which for me would be hours
or most likely days of work, so is also IMO "of value".
You need somewhere to store the image of course. I use an external HD (I
store images from more than one PC on it); a thumbdrive might do, though
I wouldn't trust one for backups. (I back up my "data" to it too.)

Post by S***@gmail.com

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these

I know little about tablets; if you even can make recovery software for
those, I don't know how you'd use it, as they don't have an optical drive.
The notebook I assume _does_ have such a drive.

The Tablet has a USB port. The Notebook the usual optical drive.

Some tablets have a strange sort of USB port. Perhaps one that runs W10
_would_ have hardware that can boot from it, so that might be OK. The
notebook should be OK.
[]

Post by S***@gmail.com

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I imagine you turn it on with the thumbdrive plugged in. You might have to
amend the boot order in the BIOS so that it boots from USB first. $900
sounds a lot for a laptop - or even a desktop for that matter!

It's a HP I bought 2 or 3 years ago mainly for the kids since it has some
kind of special sofware that makes it very fast. It was recommended for
gamers. I got it at Best Buy. It has 12GBs memory and a 1TB HD. They love
it.

Lucky kids!

Post by S***@gmail.com

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]
--

(You can snip my signatures from your replies; good software will do
that automatically, but I don't know if OE does. Or rather OE-RunasXP.)

Post by S***@gmail.com
BTW, I 'm acessing OE6 from a thumbdrive. An ancient free version RunasXP
was going away a few years back.
Microsoft motto "if it ain't broke keep fixing it till it is."

(-:

[HB]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by S***@gmail.com

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
Brevity snip

[]

Post by HB
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the
last
2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"?

Assuming they _have_ the ability to make one, the way to do so will vary
from make to make and probably model to model. Get the manual (if you
didn't get one with, and you may well not have, it should be
downloadable
as a .pdf [usually] from the manufacturer's website), and - if it isn't
obvious from the contents list - search it for the word recovery or
emergency.

Looks like I found it. I'll be making some DVDs later tonight for this HP
W-10 Notebook.

Good. Though remember that they _might_ only give you the option of
returning to as-new, so continue to certainly back up your data, and
ideally also image your C:.

I assume the C: drive is imaged when the Recovery Discs or TDs are made. Is
it? It's inventory time were I live here so the store didn't have any
larger TDs. They let the stock run down. I'd rather put the info on TDs than
CDs. Maybe I'll just go ahead and use the DVDs. There are stacks of them
here. Now to find the time.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by S***@gmail.com
Back to the Toshiba.

[]

Post by S***@gmail.com
The Toshiba is W-7, also has Classic Shell installed, is dead in the water.
All I can get is the F12 screen that is basically useless at this point.

Yes, obviously to get any sort of shell, the system has to load from the
hard disc.
[]

Post by S***@gmail.com
I wish I had one of those. I never thought to look for a way to make a
rescue or boot disk for the Toshiba.

Assuming we get it working, I imagine you now _will_ look for it. But

Post by S***@gmail.com

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
On the whole, I think a third-party imaging tool, Like Macrium or Acronis
(both free), with the boot CD they allow you to make, along with just
copying (or using something like SyncToy), is better. (I image C: and any
hidden partitions, and just copy/sync. my D: [data] partition.) The reason
being that these restore everything exactly how you had it - including all
the software you've installed, including all the tweaks to both the OS and
the software you've done over the years; whereas using recovery tools
_can_ alter things, in the extreme returning to as-new, losing all your
software (and possibly data). You put the image - and data copy - on an
external disc.

I remember having something like that years ago. But when the black screen
with the blinker occured, it didn't work. Nothing worked. There was no way
to make the PC SEE the drive and respond. It didn't work as advertised.
I

When you say no way to make it see the drive, I suspect _either_ you
haven't set it to boot from the CD/DVD drive before the hard drive, _or_
you haven't burned the DVDs in the correct manner that makes them
bootable.

I don't recall having a choice to make them bootable. I just followed the
prompts. What would the correct manner be?

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
As an outside possibility, the HD could be so badly faulty that just by
being there, it's stopping the PC working properly at all - overloading
the power supply, or something. But I think this is highly unlikely, since
you have (sometimes!) seen the BIOS boot screens. Nevertheless, you can
_try_ booting (powering on) the PC with the hard disc removed, and one of
the bootable CDs (a Windows 7 disc, a Windows 7 recovery disc, a Linux
self-boot disc, a Macrium or Acronis disc, ...) in the DVD drive: you
wouldn't be able to repair the HD, but that should at least show whether
the HD was faulty enough to prevent booting. But I don't think that is the
case - I think the reason it's not booting from one of those DVDs is one
(or both) of the reasons in the above paragraph.

I honestly don't remember any more since it was some years ago. As I recall
one was a XP and the other the Vista.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by S***@gmail.com
may as well have inserted a pancake in the drive. I have everything of value
on the Toshiba saved to a thumbdrive. I need some kind of emergency boot
disc for the Toshiba but was unable to find anything online to download and
burn to a DC or DVD. I'm going to check these two out later. Macrium and
Acronis.

Although they make a bootable disc, that disc is intended to be used to
(either make or restore from) an image; if you don't have such an image to
restore from, booting from a Macrium (or Acronis0 disc won't get you
anywhere.

I have no image of the drive and no knowledge of how to make one.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
When you say you have "everything of value" saved, you mean presumably all
that _you_ have created, which most people call your data. As you've
and any hidden partitions) would allow you to restore, either to the
existing disc if it's OK hardware-wise or to a new one if you have to buy
a new one. the system to exactly as it was when you made the image.
Without such an image, you have to reinstall the OS, and any software, and
get all the updates that have come out since the disc you reinstall it
from was made, and do all the tweaks to both the OS and any installed
software to get them back how you had them - which for me would be hours
or most likely days of work, so is also IMO "of value".

How difficult is it to make an Image of the HD?

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
You need somewhere to store the image of course. I use an external HD (I
store images from more than one PC on it); a thumbdrive might do, though I
wouldn't trust one for backups. (I back up my "data" to it too.)

I have the external Seagate but never understood how to use it for an image.
It's loaded with trash I don't even want anymore. I dread plugging it in
because it loads this PC up with trash long deleted. There doesn't seem to
be any way to tell it I don't it putting stuff on my PC.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by S***@gmail.com

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these

I know little about tablets; if you even can make recovery software for
those, I don't know how you'd use it, as they don't have an optical drive.
The notebook I assume _does_ have such a drive.

The Tablet has a USB port. The Notebook the usual optical drive.

Some tablets have a strange sort of USB port. Perhaps one that runs W10
_would_ have hardware that can boot from it, so that might be OK. The
notebook should be OK.
[]

Post by S***@gmail.com

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I imagine you turn it on with the thumbdrive plugged in. You might have to
amend the boot order in the BIOS so that it boots from USB first. $900
sounds a lot for a laptop - or even a desktop for that matter!

It's a HP I bought 2 or 3 years ago mainly for the kids since it has some
kind of special sofware that makes it very fast. It was recommended for
gamers. I got it at Best Buy. It has 12GBs memory and a 1TB HD. They love
it.

Lucky kids!

Kids! That's why funds are tight. :^)

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

I'm going to respond to several of your posts, so there will be some
duplication (-:.

In message <p8j2a3$324$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@fake.com> writes:
[]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by S***@gmail.com
Looks like I found it. I'll be making some DVDs later tonight for this HP
W-10 Notebook.

Good. Though remember that they _might_ only give you the option of
returning to as-new, so continue to certainly back up your data, and
ideally also image your C:.

I assume the C: drive is imaged when the Recovery Discs or TDs are made. Is

No, I don't think so. A recovery disc might allow you to return the
system to initial condition (before any extra software was installed and
before any updates), or might help you repair certain system (i. e.
Windows) files. It's _not_ an image. I think it is true to say that any
recovery disc you make will be the same, whether you make it when the
computer is new (or the OS newly-installed), or after years of use.

Basically, a recovery disc is for emergency repairs only. On the whole,
when you have a working system, you're far better making an image (and
the boot disc that the imaging software can make).

Post by HB
it? It's inventory time were I live here so the store didn't have any
larger TDs. They let the stock run down. I'd rather put the info on TDs than
CDs. Maybe I'll just go ahead and use the DVDs. There are stacks of them
here. Now to find the time.

One thing at a time; we're a long way from where you'd need to use lots
of DVDs at the moment.

(By the way, could you snip more of our posts when you post please? It's
a bit tedious wading through lots of text. Just leave in the paragraph
you're replying to, and maybe the one before that. Rarely is there a
need to leave in paragraphs with more than two levels of ">".)
[38 lines snipped here, for example.]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
When you say no way to make it see the drive, I suspect _either_ you
haven't set it to boot from the CD/DVD drive before the hard drive, _or_
you haven't burned the DVDs in the correct manner that makes them
bootable.

I don't recall having a choice to make them bootable. I just followed the
prompts. What would the correct manner be?

If they're .iso files, and you use the burn-from-iso option in the
burning software, they will be bootable - you don't have to do anything
further. Just don't drag an .iso file to the CD as data.
[]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Although they make a bootable disc, that disc is intended to be used to
(either make or restore from) an image; if you don't have such an image to
restore from, booting from a Macrium (or Acronis0 disc won't get you
anywhere.

I have no image of the drive and no knowledge of how to make one.

We'll tell you how to do that, once we have it back as a working system.
One thing at a time!
[]

Post by HB
How difficult is it to make an Image of the HD?

Fairly easy, using Macrium (I have no experience of Acronis or the
others). You either run it from Windows, or (as I prefer) boot from its
boot CD; once it is running, you select which partitions you want to
image (it has a graphical interface), and where you want to put the
image and what you want to call it. It then goes ahead and does it.

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
You need somewhere to store the image of course. I use an external HD (I
store images from more than one PC on it); a thumbdrive might do, though I
wouldn't trust one for backups. (I back up my "data" to it too.)

I have the external Seagate but never understood how to use it for an image.

How big (capacity I mean, not physical size) is it?

Post by HB
It's loaded with trash I don't even want anymore. I dread plugging it in
because it loads this PC up with trash long deleted. There doesn't seem to
be any way to tell it I don't it putting stuff on my PC.

Sounds like it "autoruns". In Windows 10, Control Panel > AutoPlay, then
select "Take no action" for all device types; or, Settings > Devices >
AutoPlay, move the slider to off. Or, when you plug it in, there should
be some option to stop it loading anything.
[]

[Brian Gregory]

Post by HB
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"? One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied onto a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea. There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.

https://support.toshiba.com/repair

Scroll down to Get Recovery Media.

[HB]

Post by Brian Gregory

Post by HB
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"? One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied onto a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea.
There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.

https://support.toshiba.com/repair

In reading the site the PC is out of warranty and isn't W-8.

Post by Brian Gregory
Scroll down to Get Recovery Media.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).

[Paul]

Post by HB

Post by Brian Gregory

Post by HB
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"? One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied onto a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea.
There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.

https://support.toshiba.com/repair

In reading the site the PC is out of warranty and isn't W-8.

Post by Brian Gregory
Scroll down to Get Recovery Media.

Recovery media is only stocked at OEMs for the
warranty period. If a laptop releases in 2010, you
expect the OEM to have media (discs in a bag) from 2010-2013.

Sometimes, bags of media are acquired by jobbers,
who sell the media for $50 a set. Until they run out.
From maybe 2013-2015, you might get the media from
a third party.

Other than that, there is Microsoft as a source of
installer DVDs. But the current download site requires
a *retail* license key. And the alternative sources
at the moment are broken. (DigitalRiver closed years
ago, and the Heidoc tool is broken on Win7 right now.)
That leaves torrents of MSDN discs as the last remaining
source. Which is fine, as long as you have SHA1 or SHA256
checksums for the resulting ISO files, to verify them with.

If you have at least one retail license key for Windows 7,
you should be able to get any version of Win7 you want
as an ISO. In many cases, the ISO has multiple OS versions
on it, and by editing ei.cfg, you can even cause
them to show up as a menu choice. Since the many "versions"
of an OS are almost identical, you can overlay the images
on the DVD and store a ton of them.

Loading Image...

Paul

[HB]

Post by Paul

Post by HB

Post by Brian Gregory

Post by HB
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"? One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied
onto a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea.
There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.

https://support.toshiba.com/repair

In reading the site the PC is out of warranty and isn't W-8.

Post by Brian Gregory
Scroll down to Get Recovery Media.

Recovery media is only stocked at OEMs for the
warranty period. If a laptop releases in 2010, you
expect the OEM to have media (discs in a bag) from 2010-2013.
Sometimes, bags of media are acquired by jobbers,
who sell the media for $50 a set. Until they run out.
From maybe 2013-2015, you might get the media from
a third party.
Other than that, there is Microsoft as a source of
installer DVDs. But the current download site requires
a *retail* license key. And the alternative sources
at the moment are broken. (DigitalRiver closed years
ago, and the Heidoc tool is broken on Win7 right now.)
That leaves torrents of MSDN discs as the last remaining
source. Which is fine, as long as you have SHA1 or SHA256
checksums for the resulting ISO files, to verify them with.

I have no idea what they are. The key number of the Toshiba is on the back.
I don't know if it's a retail key or not. It says product key.

Post by Paul
If you have at least one retail license key for Windows 7,
you should be able to get any version of Win7 you want
as an ISO. In many cases, the ISO has multiple OS versions
on it, and by editing ei.cfg, you can even cause
them to show up as a menu choice. Since the many "versions"
of an OS are almost identical, you can overlay the images
on the DVD and store a ton of them.

Right over my head.

Post by Paul
https://s13.postimg.org/pwmlcxkh3/multi_version_installers.gif
Paul

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by HB

Post by Paul
Other than that, there is Microsoft as a source of
installer DVDs. But the current download site requires
a *retail* license key. And the alternative sources
at the moment are broken. (DigitalRiver closed years
ago, and the Heidoc tool is broken on Win7 right now.)
That leaves torrents of MSDN discs as the last remaining
source. Which is fine, as long as you have SHA1 or SHA256
checksums for the resulting ISO files, to verify them with.

I have no idea what they are. The key number of the Toshiba is on the back.
I don't know if it's a retail key or not. It says product key.

That's almost certainly an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) key,
for the Windows that was pre-installed on the computer. A retail key
would only have come with a purchase of Windows on its own, i. e. a box
containing a CD to install Windows, which I'm pretty sure you don't
have. (The other things Paul mentioned involves downloading DVDs from
torrent sites, for which you'd need to know that what you've downloaded
is genuine not fake or virus-rich; SHA checksums are a way of checking
the validity of such files. I don't think your current level of
knowledge is up to getting - and checking - files from such sources at
the moment. [I don't think _mine_ is.])

Post by HB

Post by Paul
If you have at least one retail license key for Windows 7,
you should be able to get any version of Win7 you want
as an ISO. In many cases, the ISO has multiple OS versions
on it, and by editing ei.cfg, you can even cause
them to show up as a menu choice. Since the many "versions"
of an OS are almost identical, you can overlay the images
on the DVD and store a ton of them.

Right over my head.

Doesn't matter, as I suspect it's highly unlikely you have any retail
keys for W7 anyway.

Post by HB

Post by Paul
https://s13.postimg.org/pwmlcxkh3/multi_version_installers.gif
Paul

[Paul]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Doesn't matter, as I suspect it's highly unlikely you have any retail
keys for W7 anyway.

Post by Paul
https://s13.postimg.org/pwmlcxkh3/multi_version_installers.gif

I used a Windows 7 Sp1 Home Premium retail DVD to reinstall
Windows 7 on my Acer laptop. I used the license key on the COA sticker.
I had to use the "phone activation" method. The laptop will print
phone numbers on the screen for your country, as to where to call
to activate.

This is the method people are supposed to use, if they have
lost the original hard drive, the media you make when
you get the laptop new (the emergency recovery discs made from
the recovery partition), and you don't have any copies of the
recovery partition either.

This is why I was lamenting the lack of sources of Retail media,
because the COA sticker on the laptop can be used with a Retail
disc. As long as it's the same Trim level. The original OS
was Win7 Sp1 Home Premium Acer OEM with SLIC activation.
The current OS on the laptop is Win7 Sp1 Home Premium retail
with COA+Phone activation. This new OS doesn't have Zynga games
in it, or the NTI backup utility. The "cruft" is missing :-)

Paul

[HB]

Post by Brian Gregory

Post by HB
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"? One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied onto a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea.
There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.

https://support.toshiba.com/repair
Scroll down to Get Recovery Media.

Thanks. That would be nice but it rejects the Serial number on the Toshiba.
After entering it at least 4 times I gave up.

Post by Brian Gregory
--
Brian Gregory (in England).

[Wolf K]

Post by HB

Post by Brian Gregory

Post by HB
This is another concern of mine. I not only didn't get CDs with the last 2
PCs, but no nag screens either. How do I make a bootable disc for them or
one of these "images"? One is a Tablet w/W-10 and the other a Notebook
w/W-10. I have nothing in case one goes dark on me. The one before these
is a HP laptop and I followed the directons and the info was copied onto a
Thumbdrive. But can that $900 dollar PC boot from it? I have no idea.
There
was no info as to what to do with the thumbdrive if the computer crashed.

https://support.toshiba.com/repair
Scroll down to Get Recovery Media.

Thanks. That would be nice but it rejects the Serial number on the Toshiba.
After entering it at least 4 times I gave up.

AFAIK, you can make Recovery Media only for the machine that you are
using to make the Recovery Media. So you have to use that machine's
Windows Activation Key (_not_ the machine's serial number).

However, you may be able to boot the Toshiba with the recovery media,
since AFAIK it will look for an activation key only when you install
Win7. Could be worth a try.

Also note Tesla's comments about the BIOS battery. I think he's right, a
failed BIOS battery is a real possibility. Changing that is bad enough
on a desktop, on a laptop it's a tech job IMO.

Good luck,

[Wolf K]

Post by HB

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.

f8 or f2 access BIOS,_not_ the HD. Can you copy (by hand, I guss) and
post the technical messages? That would be helpful.

It says "InsydeH20setup utility" at the top of the screen.
There are too many. 6 tabs on one screen. Text on each tab. None mention
Safe Mode or system recovery. Example. On the Avanced tab it says: Boot
Speed. Boot sound. USB Legacy Emulation. System Configuration.

[...]

As Vanguard says, either Windows is messed up somehow, or else the HDD
is messed up somehow. Either way, Windows isn't being loaded. The boot
stops before it loads Windows. I don't know which is more likely on your
case, but IMO it's the HDD.

I'm afraid that all you can do at this point is a couple more diagnostic
tests, such as booting Linux (another operating system) from the CD/DVD
drive. You'd have to ask a friend to download Linux and burn it it to a
DVD.

But the bottom line IMO is that you can't do anything to fix this
machine. A tech can probably fix it, but it's up to you to decide
whether it's worth the price.

More explanation of what you are seeing when you try to boot the machine:

You are seeing the BIOS config screen. Windows is not starting at all.

BIOS = "basic Input Output System". It's a small program that's built
into the computer. It's on a chip. The computer can't function without
it. The first stage of booting runs the BIOS, which looks for an
operating system to load and run. On your machine, the operating system
is Windows.

Windows is the operating system. It contains all the software needed to
make the machine fully functional. It's on the HDD. During boot, it is
copied into RAM (memory chips). Once it's loaded, it runs, that's when
you'll see your desktop etc. That's also when you could restart
_Windows_ in safe mode.

Good luck and best wishes,

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <jhQpC.58985$***@fx10.iad>, Wolf K
<***@sympatico.ca> writes:
[]

Post by Wolf K
As Vanguard says, either Windows is messed up somehow, or else the HDD
is messed up somehow. Either way, Windows isn't being loaded. The boot
stops before it loads Windows. I don't know which is more likely on
your case, but IMO it's the HDD.
I'm afraid that all you can do at this point is a couple more
diagnostic tests, such as booting Linux (another operating system) from
the CD/DVD drive. You'd have to ask a friend to download Linux and burn
it it to a DVD.

He wouldn't have to ask a friend: he's obviously got another computer,
as he's talking to us. (OK, we might or might not have to talk him
through burning from an ISO, but that's trivial.) Assuming his other
computer has a DVD burner that is. (Though even one of the old Linuces
that will fit on a CD would probably serve our needs here.)

Post by Wolf K
But the bottom line IMO is that you can't do anything to fix this
machine. A tech can probably fix it, but it's up to you to decide
whether it's worth the price.

I wouldn't go that far yet! Let's establish whether it's a faulty HD, or
just file corruption, first. I haven't seen anything yet to indicate
there's anything wrong with the machine that isn't just one of those two
(though it is possible).

Post by Wolf K
You are seeing the BIOS config screen. Windows is not starting at all.
BIOS = "basic Input Output System". It's a small program that's built

Or built-in operating system.
[]

Post by Wolf K
Good luck and best wishes,

From me too. I think HB is capable of doing more for himself, with
perhaps guidance from us where necessary, than some here think (-:

[HB]

[]

As Vanguard says, either Windows is messed up somehow, or else the HDD is
messed up somehow. Either way, Windows isn't being loaded. The boot stops
before it loads Windows. I don't know which is more likely on your case,
but IMO it's the HDD.
I'm afraid that all you can do at this point is a couple more diagnostic
tests, such as booting Linux (another operating system) from the CD/DVD
drive. You'd have to ask a friend to download Linux and burn it it to a
DVD.

He wouldn't have to ask a friend: he's obviously got another computer, as
he's talking to us. (OK, we might or might not have to talk him through
burning from an ISO, but that's trivial.) Assuming his other computer has
a DVD burner that is. (Though even one of the old Linuces that will fit on
a CD would probably serve our needs here.)

They all have CD drives except the Tablet. Do I just download this Linux,
burn it to a CD or DVD and then try to boot the Toshiba with it? Just put
it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray? That
wont mess up the windows files already on the HD?

But the bottom line IMO is that you can't do anything to fix this machine.
A tech can probably fix it, but it's up to you to decide whether it's
worth the price.

I wouldn't go that far yet! Let's establish whether it's a faulty HD, or
just file corruption, first. I haven't seen anything yet to indicate
there's anything wrong with the machine that isn't just one of those two
(though it is possible).

You are seeing the BIOS config screen. Windows is not starting at all.
BIOS = "basic Input Output System". It's a small program that's built

Or built-in operating system.
[]

Good luck and best wishes,

From me too. I think HB is capable of doing more for himself, with perhaps
--

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Read all the way through - try not to glaze (-:

In message <p8aga3$npl$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@fake.com> writes:
[]

Post by HB
They all have CD drives except the Tablet. Do I just download this Linux,
burn it to a CD or DVD and then try to boot the Toshiba with it? Just put

Yes. The burning to a CD stage involves the "burn from ISO image" option
of your burning software, not just writing the file to a DVD; tell us
what burning software you're using - in some, selecting that option is
obvious, in some less so. If you're not sure about this, ask (telling us
what burning software you use) and we'll help; if necessary, we'll
recommend suitable free burning software. (The most popular seems to be
ImgBurn, version 2.5.8.0 or 2.5.7.0 [later versions have junk bundled
with them], which can be got from repositories like oldversion.com -
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/imgburn-2-5-7-0 .)

Post by HB
it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray? That

Ideally, before you turn on the computer. Since you'll need it on to
eject the tray (unless you use the paperclip method), turn it on, press
the eject button, turn it off.

Post by HB
wont mess up the windows files already on the HD?

Just booting the Linux shouldn't. Things you do while _in_ the Linux
may, but only deliberate actions - and after all, assuming the HD
doesn't have a hardware fault, we're going to have to tweak files on it
anyway.

Note that booting the Linux from CD will be slow, as with booting any OS
from CD, compared to what you're used to booting Windows from HD. [I
haven't played with a Linux for a very long time, but I can't imagine
this will have changed!]
[]
I really think examining the HD using another (Windows) machine will be
easier for you, than learning how to use Linux if you haven't before -
but, this is probably the _cheapest_ option, as it would only cost a
blank DVD, rather than a couple of cheap cables. (Though there is a
cost-free method, if the desktop machine's CD/DVD is SATA; see my
previous post.)

Another alternative would be to make a Windows 7 DVD (see one of Paul's
posts), and boot from that, to get at the recovery console.

[HB]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by HB
They all have CD drives except the Tablet. Do I just download this Linux,
burn it to a CD or DVD and then try to boot the Toshiba with it? Just put

Yes. The burning to a CD stage involves the "burn from ISO image" option
of your burning software, not just writing the file to a DVD; tell us what
burning software you're using - in some, selecting that option is obvious,
in some less so.

I had to pass since Linux was a 8 GB download and I don't have unlimited ISP
service. The website didn't say what to do with it once downloaded. The
extenstion was unknown to me. The MS rescue software I downloaded did
nothing to boot the Toshiba nor did the Avira boot disk.

If you're not sure about this, ask (telling us

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
what burning software you use) and we'll help; if necessary, we'll
recommend suitable free burning software. (The most popular seems to be
ImgBurn, version 2.5.8.0 or 2.5.7.0 [later versions have junk bundled with
them], which can be got from repositories like oldversion.com -
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/imgburn-2-5-7-0 .)

I have Ashampoo installed. I would have to go through the thumb-drives to
see what else I have saved and not installed. I personally haven't burned a
CD or DVD in years.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray? That

Ideally, before you turn on the computer. Since you'll need it on to eject
the tray (unless you use the paperclip method), turn it on, press the
eject button, turn it off.

Post by HB
wont mess up the windows files already on the HD?

Just booting the Linux shouldn't. Things you do while _in_ the Linux may,
but only deliberate actions - and after all, assuming the HD doesn't have
a hardware fault, we're going to have to tweak files on it anyway.

Wouldn't it be easier for me to just take the HD to a shop and let them
check it? How would Linux get the Toshiba to boot since it doesn't react to
the rescue discs? Isn't there anything smaller to give the same
information?

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Note that booting the Linux from CD will be slow, as with booting any OS
from CD, compared to what you're used to booting Windows from HD. [I
haven't played with a Linux for a very long time, but I can't imagine this
will have changed!]
[]
I really think examining the HD using another (Windows) machine will be
easier for you, than learning how to use Linux if you haven't before -
but, this is probably the _cheapest_ option, as it would only cost a blank
DVD, rather than a couple of cheap cables. (Though there is a cost-free
method, if the desktop machine's CD/DVD is SATA; see my previous post.)

I don't know know if it's SATA. Opening up the case and pulling out parts
is not something I'm anxious to do. How would I know if the HDs good or not
if it's hooked to the CD cables? What would that tell me?

It will cost me because I don't have unlimited service and will either go
over the 20 GBs or my family will have around 2 GB for the rest of the month
which is unrealistic around here. Verizon charges $10 a GB and it adds up
fast. There has to be something smaller than that out there.I know nothing
about Linux. It would be useless to me.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Another alternative would be to make a Windows 7 DVD (see one of Paul's
posts), and boot from that, to get at the recovery console.

How do I do that when you can't move W software that comes with one PC to
another? I assume I would copy the files on the D: drive, not the C: drive.
And THAT will boot a computer from another mfg?

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
--
Illinc fui et illud feci, habe tunicam?

[Paul]

I had to pass since Linux was a 8 GB download and I don't have unlimited ISP service.

Wrong Wrong Wrong.

Tell me what you want to experiment with, and I'll
tell you the size.

For example, if you picked Puppy, it *definitely* isn't 8GB.

The website didn't say what to do with it once downloaded. The
extenstion was unknown to me.

Quite true.

Again, if we know what you downloaded, we can help you.

*******

Meanwhile, this is for ISO files. It makes bootable DVDs from them.

http://www.oldversion.com/windows/download/imgburn-2-5-0-0

2.5.0.0_SetupImgBurn_2.5.0.0.exe 2,169,915 bytes Jul 26, 2009
CRC32: 39CD6FC6
MD5: F3791CFACDAC03B9E676E44AA2630243
SHA-1: E07BCC23B495D0A966BAE359EA9E0E3A11888454

The download button for that is green in color and says:

+-----------------------------------------------+
| Download Now | |
| | |
| V |
| |
| Tested: Free from spyware, adware and viruses |
+-----------------------------------------------+

This version is free from Adware. Turn off the "auto update"
in the preferences. Do not accept any efforts it might make
to update (until you know some version is free of adware).
The size of the package increased after this release, which
is a rough guide to detecting the presence of extra materials.

I like Imgburn. I don't like Adware.

Paul

[HB]

Post by Paul

I had to pass since Linux was a 8 GB download and I don't have unlimited ISP service.

Wrong Wrong Wrong.
Tell me what you want to experiment with, and I'll
tell you the size.
For example, if you picked Puppy, it *definitely* isn't 8GB.

The website didn't say what to do with it once downloaded. The
extenstion was unknown to me.

Quite true.
Again, if we know what you downloaded, we can help you

So I download Lynux "puppy" and burn it to a DVD and it will boot the
Toshiba unless ther HD is toast? I don't have to worry about the strange
extension? There is no other software out there anyone knows about that
would boot the PC?

If if does nothing what does that mean?

Post by Paul
*******
Meanwhile, this is for ISO files. It makes bootable DVDs from them.

So the Linux PUPPY files will be turned into ISO files able to boot
computers that can't load their OSs?

Post by Paul
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/download/imgburn-2-5-0-0
2.5.0.0_SetupImgBurn_2.5.0.0.exe 2,169,915 bytes Jul 26, 2009
CRC32: 39CD6FC6
MD5: F3791CFACDAC03B9E676E44AA2630243
SHA-1: E07BCC23B495D0A966BAE359EA9E0E3A11888454
+-----------------------------------------------+
| Download Now | |
| | |
| V |
| |
| Tested: Free from spyware, adware and viruses |
+-----------------------------------------------+
This version is free from Adware. Turn off the "auto update"
in the preferences. Do not accept any efforts it might make
to update (until you know some version is free of adware).
The size of the package increased after this release, which
is a rough guide to detecting the presence of extra materials.
I like Imgburn. I don't like Adware.
Paul

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <p8hulu$uvb$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@FAKE.com> writes:
[]

Post by HB
So I download Lynux "puppy" and burn it to a DVD and it will boot the

I think that one would fit on a CD.

Post by HB
Toshiba unless ther HD is toast? I don't have to worry about the strange

If it will boot the Toshiba, it will do so even if the HD _is_ toast,
unless it's toast in a very unlikely manner.

Post by HB
extension? There is no other software out there anyone knows about that

You DO have to worry about the strange extension, if that extension is
".iso". You DON'T just burn that file to the CD the same way you'd burn
any other data file: you have to use "create CD from ISO image", or some
similar setting in your Ashampoo. (Or download and use ImgBurn as
already described - it's fairly obvious within that which is the
create-from-ISO-image option.)

Post by HB
would boot the PC?

If correctly put onto the CD or DVD (as above), and the boot sequence on
the PC is set to boot from the CD/DVD drive, then any of these will boot
the PC:

o A Windows 7 install disc
o A Windows 7 recovery/repair disc
o A Linux boot disc
o A Macrium or Acronis boot disc
o A Kaspersky, or similar, disc
o other boot discs

What they _do_ when they boot obviously varies. A W7 install disc will
try to install W7, though you _can_ I think get to the recovery console
from it. A W7 repair disc I've never used, but I _think_ they go
straight into the recovery console. A Linux one will boot Linux, from
which you may be able to examine the disc. A Macrium or Acronis boot
disc would enable you to restore from an image, which isn't of use to
you at the moment. A Kaspersky disc would attempt to do a malware scan,
which probably wouldn't succeed at the moment, if it can't get at the HD
properly to scan it.

Post by HB
If if does nothing what does that mean?

Probably, you've either not burned the disc properly, or not set the
BIOS boot sequence correctly. You can check out any such disc by booting
one of your other PCs from it, having set their BIOS to boot from CD/DVD
first. (If you succeed and they do boot from the CD/DVD, shut them down,
in whatever manner is appropriate to the type of boot disc it is;
they're unlikely to change anything if you do that.)

Post by HB

Post by Paul
*******
Meanwhile, this is for ISO files. It makes bootable DVDs from them.

So the Linux PUPPY files will be turned into ISO files able to boot
computers that can't load their OSs?

Not quite. What you download IS an ISO file (or possibly an ISO file
inside a .zip or similar file, which you'd have to extract). An ISO file
is a sort of image of a CD: when you burn a CD from an ISO file (note I
said "burn a CD from an ISO file", NOT "burn an ISO file to a CD"), if
you then examine the CD you have created, you will see lots of files. If
you like, think of an ISO file as a sort of .zip file, but of the entire
contents of a CD; burning a CD from it sort of unzips all the files from
inside the ISO onto the CD, as part of the burning process. (That's a
simplification - actually the opposite! - of what happens, but is near
enough.)

Post by HB

Post by Paul
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/download/imgburn-2-5-0-0
2.5.0.0_SetupImgBurn_2.5.0.0.exe 2,169,915 bytes Jul 26, 2009
CRC32: 39CD6FC6
MD5: F3791CFACDAC03B9E676E44AA2630243
SHA-1: E07BCC23B495D0A966BAE359EA9E0E3A11888454
+-----------------------------------------------+
| Download Now | |
| | |
| V |
| |
| Tested: Free from spyware, adware and viruses |
+-----------------------------------------------+
This version is free from Adware. Turn off the "auto update"
in the preferences. Do not accept any efforts it might make
to update (until you know some version is free of adware).
The size of the package increased after this release, which
is a rough guide to detecting the presence of extra materials.
I like Imgburn. I don't like Adware.
Paul

That's a burning program, to be used as an alternative to your Ashampoo.
Go on, get it and run it: it's only just over 2M! Then we'll know at
least that you have something that we know can easily burn CD/DVDs from
ISO files.

But I'd still say _my_ first choice - rather than trying to boot from a
CD/DVD - would be to examine the HD, on one of your other computers,
using a USB dock, "cable", or housing: This _doesn't_ involve buying
hardware you won't need anyway, since if you're going to back up the
machine after you've repaired it (and all your other machines!), you'll
need the dock/"cable"/housing anyway to connect the backup drive.

[HB]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by HB
So I download Lynux "puppy" and burn it to a DVD and it will boot the

I think that one would fit on a CD.

Post by HB
Toshiba unless ther HD is toast? I don't have to worry about the strange

If it will boot the Toshiba, it will do so even if the HD _is_ toast,
unless it's toast in a very unlikely manner.

OK, then how will I know if the HD is toast if it boots the PC anyway?

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
extension? There is no other software out there anyone knows about that

You DO have to worry about the strange extension, if that extension is
".iso". You DON'T just burn that file to the CD the same way you'd burn
any other data file: you have to use "create CD from ISO image", or some
similar setting in your Ashampoo. (Or download and use ImgBurn as already
described - it's fairly obvious within that which is the
create-from-ISO-image option.)

Ashampoo doesn't have that choice. I downloaded ImgBurn but have not had the
time to see how it works. It doesn't look easy and intuitive like the other
burners I had.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
would boot the PC?

If correctly put onto the CD or DVD (as above), and the boot sequence on
the PC is set to boot from the CD/DVD drive, then any of these will boot
o A Windows 7 install disc
o A Windows 7 recovery/repair disc
o A Linux boot disc
o A Macrium or Acronis boot disc
o A Kaspersky, or similar, disc
o other boot discs
What they _do_ when they boot obviously varies. A W7 install disc will try
to install W7, though you _can_ I think get to the recovery console from
it. A W7 repair disc I've never used, but I _think_ they go straight into
the recovery console. A Linux one will boot Linux, from which you may be
able to examine the disc. A Macrium or Acronis boot disc would enable you
to restore from an image, which isn't of use to you at the moment. A
Kaspersky disc would attempt to do a malware scan, which probably wouldn't
succeed at the moment, if it can't get at the HD properly to scan it.

Post by HB
If if does nothing what does that mean?

Probably, you've either not burned the disc properly, or not set the BIOS
boot sequence correctly. You can check out any such disc by booting one of
your other PCs from it, having set their BIOS to boot from CD/DVD first.
(If you succeed and they do boot from the CD/DVD, shut them down, in
whatever manner is appropriate to the type of boot disc it is; they're
unlikely to change anything if you do that.)

Post by HB

Post by Paul
*******
Meanwhile, this is for ISO files. It makes bootable DVDs from them.

So the Linux PUPPY files will be turned into ISO files able to boot
computers that can't load their OSs?

Not quite. What you download IS an ISO file (or possibly an ISO file
inside a .zip or similar file, which you'd have to extract). An ISO file
is a sort of image of a CD: when you burn a CD from an ISO file (note I
said "burn a CD from an ISO file", NOT "burn an ISO file to a CD"), if you
then examine the CD you have created, you will see lots of files. If you
like, think of an ISO file as a sort of .zip file, but of the entire
contents of a CD; burning a CD from it sort of unzips all the files from
inside the ISO onto the CD, as part of the burning process. (That's a
simplification - actually the opposite! - of what happens, but is near
enough.)

Post by HB

Post by Paul
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/download/imgburn-2-5-0-0
2.5.0.0_SetupImgBurn_2.5.0.0.exe 2,169,915 bytes Jul 26, 2009
CRC32: 39CD6FC6
MD5: F3791CFACDAC03B9E676E44AA2630243
SHA-1: E07BCC23B495D0A966BAE359EA9E0E3A11888454
+-----------------------------------------------+
| Download Now | |
| | |
| V |
| |
| Tested: Free from spyware, adware and viruses |
+-----------------------------------------------+
This version is free from Adware. Turn off the "auto update"
in the preferences. Do not accept any efforts it might make
to update (until you know some version is free of adware).
The size of the package increased after this release, which
is a rough guide to detecting the presence of extra materials.
I like Imgburn. I don't like Adware.
Paul

That's a burning program, to be used as an alternative to your Ashampoo.
Go on, get it and run it: it's only just over 2M! Then we'll know at least
that you have something that we know can easily burn CD/DVDs from ISO
files.
But I'd still say _my_ first choice - rather than trying to boot from a
CD/DVD - would be to examine the HD, on one of your other computers, using
a USB dock, "cable", or housing: This _doesn't_ involve buying hardware
you won't need anyway, since if you're going to back up the machine after
you've repaired it (and all your other machines!), you'll need the
dock/"cable"/housing anyway to connect the backup drive.

By backup drive you mean an external drive - one for each PC? Or one
external drive with the images on it that can boot them all? The external
Seagate attaches with a wire to the USB port.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
--
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder...

[Wolf K]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by HB
So I download Lynux "puppy" and burn it to a DVD and it will boot the

I think that one would fit on a CD.

Post by HB
Toshiba unless ther HD is toast? I don't have to worry about the strange

If it will boot the Toshiba, it will do so even if the HD_is_ toast,
unless it's toast in a very unlikely manner.

OK, then how will I know if the HD is toast if it boots the PC anyway?

Booting from a CD or USB thumb drive bypasses the HD. Once Linux Puppy
is up and running, you should see all the drives it can access.

If you don't see a something that looks like a hard drive icon for C:,
there may be a way to click through the menus to find it an "mount" it
(= make it visible and usable by Puppy). Someone familiar with Puppy
should be able to walk you through that.

If you can mount the HD, it will show on the desktop as C: or Windows.
It can be fixed, but I don't know whether Puppy includes the tools to do
that. Otherwise, the HD is beyond fixing IMO.

You're learning a lot, eh? So am I, and I'm also being reminded of holes
in my memory. Old age is not for wussies. :-)

Good luck,

[Patrick]

Post by HB
Ashampoo doesn't have that choice. I downloaded ImgBurn but have not had the
time to see how it works. It doesn't look easy and intuitive like the other
burners I had.

Ashampoo
Assuming that your 'Ashampoo' Window looks like this;

Loading Image...

Then click on 'Create/Burn Disc Images'
Then navigate to where your ISO (image) file is located.

-----------------

ImgBurn
Assuming that your 'ImgBurn' Window looks like this;

Loading Image...

Then click on 'Write image file to disc'
Then navigate to where your ISO (image) file is located.

------------

ISOrecorder (Another (very convenient) option to write an image file
(ISO file) to a CD/DVD is to download and install 'ISOrecorder' from;
http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/#/

At said site, click 'Download', then click iether the 32bit or the 64bit
of 'ISO Recorder V3.1'.

Then read 'Installation'.
Now when it's installed you can right-click on an ISO (image) file that
you have previously downloaded you will be given the option (in bold
text) to 'Copy image to CD' (works the same with DVD).

----------------------

Can I suggest that you use rewritable CD/DVD as, if you make a mistake
then you can simply erase the rewritable CD/DVD and try again.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
If it will boot the Toshiba, it will do so even if the HD _is_ toast,
unless it's toast in a very unlikely manner.

OK, then how will I know if the HD is toast if it boots the PC anyway?

Because, once the Linux (whichever flavour) has loaded and is running,
you then tell it to look at the HD (which will appear, in Linux, as
something like "sda", "sdb", or similar, if I understand Paul's post on
the matter correctly). _How_ you tell Linux to look at the HD, someone
who speaks Linux will have to tell you - in simple steps!

* If it can't see any HD, then the drive is probably toast.
* If it can see an HD, but can't see any partitions on it, then the
drive _may_ be toast, or may just have a scrambled partition table (or
boot sector?). This _may_ be repairable.
* If it can see an HD, and can see partitions on it, and examine the
files on it, then the drive isn't toast, though may still be somewhat
faulty - but we _might_ be able to repair it so that it runs long enough
to make an image, or to run further tests on it to see if it's actually
faulty or has just got corrupted somehow.

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
extension? There is no other software out there anyone knows about that

You DO have to worry about the strange extension, if that extension is
".iso". You DON'T just burn that file to the CD the same way you'd burn
any other data file: you have to use "create CD from ISO image", or some
similar setting in your Ashampoo. (Or download and use ImgBurn as already
described - it's fairly obvious within that which is the
create-from-ISO-image option.)

Ashampoo doesn't have that choice. I downloaded ImgBurn but have not had the
time to see how it works. It doesn't look easy and intuitive like the other
burners I had.

See Patrick's post; Ashampoo _does_ have that choice. As does ImgBurn.
(He also mentioned a third alternative.) I also agree with his
suggestion of using rewriteable media, if you have them, so you don't
waste them if you get them wrong. (Though use a write-once one once
you've proved the method - IME, CD-RWs aren't _long_ lived, I mean
recordings made on them aren't.)
[]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB

Post by Paul
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/download/imgburn-2-5-0-0

[]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB

Post by Paul
I like Imgburn. I don't like Adware.
Paul

I assume that's the one you've got.
[]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
But I'd still say _my_ first choice - rather than trying to boot from a
CD/DVD - would be to examine the HD, on one of your other computers, using
a USB dock, "cable", or housing: This _doesn't_ involve buying hardware
you won't need anyway, since if you're going to back up the machine after
you've repaired it (and all your other machines!), you'll need the
dock/"cable"/housing anyway to connect the backup drive.

By backup drive you mean an external drive - one for each PC? Or one
external drive with the images on it that can boot them all? The external
Seagate attaches with a wire to the USB port.

[]
I use my external drive to store images from my two main PCs. You don't
boot _from_ the external drive: you boot from a CD you make using the
imaging software you choose. I choose Macrium, for which the boot CD
actually fits on a mini-CD (well it does for Macrium 5 that I have; I
think it will for 6 and 7 too); it hasn't let me down yet. Once Macrium
(or whatever) has booted from the CD, you tell it which image file (on
the external drive) to restore from.

Whether you can store many such images depends on the capacity of the
external drive (such as your Seagate). The images aren't the size of the
drive they come from, only the used part of that drive or a little
smaller: for example, on here I have a C: partition of 99.9GB, but only
28.2 GB of that is used, so an image of that (plus the 100M hidden
partition) would only need less than 29 GB. (Less, in fact, as Macrium
offers to do compression when it's making images; I tend to turn that
off.)

[Paul]

Post by HB

Post by Paul

I had to pass since Linux was a 8 GB download and I don't have unlimited ISP service.

Wrong Wrong Wrong.
Tell me what you want to experiment with, and I'll
tell you the size.
For example, if you picked Puppy, it *definitely* isn't 8GB.

The website didn't say what to do with it once downloaded. The
extenstion was unknown to me.

Quite true.
Again, if we know what you downloaded, we can help you

So I download Lynux "puppy" and burn it to a DVD and it will boot the
Toshiba unless ther HD is toast? I don't have to worry about the strange
extension? There is no other software out there anyone knows about that
would boot the PC?
If if does nothing what does that mean?

In this case, we might be burning a Linux DVD, because we can't
get our hands on a Windows DVD to boot with. The Windows DVD would
have CHKDSK, diskpart, and so on. Linux doesn't have a CHKDSK for
NTFS.

And Puppy was purely an illustration of a small one.

Puppy is for year 2000 computers. The old kernel and old drivers
are a good match for the old computers involved.

FatDog64 is a 64-bit distro, where the kernel version is a bit
later, and that one matches my newer machine better. And it's
still a small download (smaller than a CD size download).

But for a relatively wide selection of packages, then Ubuntu
is also a choice. At around 1.5GB for the download.

There's no need, typically, to be selecting a 3.5GB Linux
distro. There are some, but the software included on them
is too obscure to justify the download. Packages can be
added to a distro, once booted and online for example.

The purpose of booting with Linux, is to get a second
opinion on hardware health. Does the computer boot ?
If I use SmartMonTools, what does SMART say ? The hard
drives have names like "sda", "sdb", "sdc"...

sudo smartctl -a /dev/sdc

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 092 092 036 Pre-fail Always - 334

You run commands like that from a Terminal. Click the
"dash" search icon (might be upper-left) and type
Terminal to open a terminal. Then type

smartctl

to see if the executable is available. If the executable
is not present, the OS will tell you the command to use
to make the software download.

Things like the "Software" icon, have a Repository setup
in them, with "Universe" and "Multiverse" buttons. For
some software downloads, you have to make sure those are
turned on first.

Post by HB

Post by Paul
*******
Meanwhile, this is for ISO files. It makes bootable DVDs from them.

So the Linux PUPPY files will be turned into ISO files able to boot
computers that can't load their OSs?

Linux distros ship as ISO files. An ISO file is an "image" of
an entire DVD. Burning software is supposed to know that it
copies the image, sector for sector, to the optical media. You
don't "drag and drop" an ISO onto a DVD. The burning program
recognizes the ISO is an archive of sorts, that represents
a DVD, and burns it as such. It copies the sectors over, out
of the ISO, to the DVD surface. It doesn't work at file system level.
The process required is *not the same as Windows drag-and-drop*.

Post by HB

Post by Paul
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/download/imgburn-2-5-0-0
2.5.0.0_SetupImgBurn_2.5.0.0.exe 2,169,915 bytes Jul 26, 2009
CRC32: 39CD6FC6
MD5: F3791CFACDAC03B9E676E44AA2630243
SHA-1: E07BCC23B495D0A966BAE359EA9E0E3A11888454
+-----------------------------------------------+
| Download Now | |
| | |
| V |
| |
| Tested: Free from spyware, adware and viruses |
+-----------------------------------------------+

Once a program like this is installed, when you double-click
an ISO, Imgburn should open.

Imgburn has six buttons in the window. You want the upper-left button.

Loading Image...

In the window that opens, there is an icon to "add an ISO" to
the burn queue. There is a green "+" to the right of
"Please select a file". You select an ISO you want made
into a boot-able CD/DVD. While this page has lots
of confusing dialog boxes, just the defaults should
do a good job of burning the disc. Since the verify
tick box is selected by default, after the burn is
finished, the optical drive tray will "open and close"
before the verify begins. Don't panic if you hear the
drive door opening. It's the step just before
verify starts.

http://forum.imgburn.com/index.php?/topic/4249-how-to-use-the-automatic-write-speed-aws-feature-in-imgburn/

Also, turn down the audio volume on your computer speakers,
as the "done tone" the program uses, will scare the
crap out of you. The Imgburn author has a wicked
sense of humor. You can modify the audio behavior
in the Preferences, but usually only after having
the crap scared out of you :-)

No bootable CD, is perfect for every kind of maintenance
a person might want to do. People collect various CDs
and add them to their collection, to do various
kinds of maintenance. Just getting a CD to boot, is
a way of verifying the computer "is worth keeping".
If you can't get it to boot, or if there are
obvious crash symptoms with two OSes (the original OS
and the test CD), then you would begin to suspect a
hardware issue (bad RAM, bad CPU, bad power, and so on).

Paul

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <p8d8jl$4kr$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@fake.com> writes:
[]

Post by HB
I had to pass since Linux was a 8 GB download and I don't have unlimited ISP
service. The website didn't say what to do with it once downloaded. The
extenstion was unknown to me. The MS rescue software I downloaded did
nothing to boot the Toshiba nor did the Avira boot disk.

Was the extension .iso?

Post by HB
If you're not sure about this, ask (telling us

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
what burning software you use) and we'll help; if necessary, we'll
recommend suitable free burning software. (The most popular seems to be
ImgBurn, version 2.5.8.0 or 2.5.7.0 [later versions have junk bundled with
them], which can be got from repositories like oldversion.com -
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/imgburn-2-5-7-0 .)

I have Ashampoo installed. I would have to go through the thumb-drives to
see what else I have saved and not installed. I personally haven't burned a
CD or DVD in years.

If it looks like the screenshots on
https://www.ashampoo.com/uk/gbp/psr/7110/burning-software/burning-studio-free
, then on the "Main" screen, I _suspect_ you want "Disc Image" rather
than "Burn Data"; without having it installed myself, however, I'm not
sure if Disc Image is for *making* (.iso) images *of* _existing_
CD/DVDs, or for burning them *from* an .iso file. Try clicking on it: it
should be obvious which. (It may do both - in fact if it can take images
of existing discs, it's unlikely it can't also burn from such images.)

Alternatively, get ImgBurn - Paul has shown where. It's obvious when
running that. But I suspect your Ashampoo can do it.

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray? That

Ideally, before you turn on the computer. Since you'll need it on to eject
the tray (unless you use the paperclip method), turn it on, press the
eject button, turn it off.

Post by HB
wont mess up the windows files already on the HD?

Just booting the Linux shouldn't. Things you do while _in_ the Linux may,
but only deliberate actions - and after all, assuming the HD doesn't have
a hardware fault, we're going to have to tweak files on it anyway.

Wouldn't it be easier for me to just take the HD to a shop and let them
check it? How would Linux get the Toshiba to boot since it doesn't react to
the rescue discs? Isn't there anything smaller to give the same
information?

SHOP: Depends what relationship you have with the shop. If they're going
to charge you their standard service charge just for looking at it, then
I imagine that'd be more than the cost of the external dock (at least if
bought online) anyway. If you do get them to look at it, then there's
incentive for them to say it's duff to get you to buy a new one - I
doubt, unless it's a very good shop, that they'd recover it for you even
if they say it isn't duff: the best they're likely to do is offer to
reinstall Windows from scratch.
LINUX: the laptop should boot from a CD/DVD, provided (a) the CD has
been burned correctly (not just the .iso file written to it as data),
and (b) the laptop's BIOS boot sequence is set to try CD/DVD first.
SMALLER: Linuxes _are_ smaller than 8G; we're not sure what it is you
have downloaded.
[]

Post by HB
I don't know know if it's SATA. Opening up the case and pulling out parts
is not something I'm anxious to do. How would I know if the HDs good or not
if it's hooked to the CD cables? What would that tell me?

If you did that, then turned on that PC and went into Windows Explorer
(Windows key and E), if you can see a drive or drives other than the
existing hard disc and any card reader slots that normally come up, then
you are getting some response from it. If it shows how full that disc
is, things are looking even better. If you can then see what files are
on it, things are looking very good. You would also be able to run
assorted tests on it - read its SMART data, do an HDTune read run, and
so on.

Post by HB
It will cost me because I don't have unlimited service and will either go
over the 20 GBs or my family will have around 2 GB for the rest of the month
which is unrealistic around here. Verizon charges $10 a GB and it adds up
fast. There has to be something smaller than that out there.I know nothing
about Linux. It would be useless to me.

Paul has given you a link to one that's under 400 MB. Personally I
wouldn't go that route as I know virtually nothing of Linux either, but
then I already have an external disc dock, and even if I didn't, I would
not be averse to putting the disc inside a desktop computer that had the
right cables. Your situation may be different.

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Another alternative would be to make a Windows 7 DVD (see one of Paul's
posts), and boot from that, to get at the recovery console.

How do I do that when you can't move W software that comes with one PC to

You'd follow Paul's instructions on how to make the Windows DVD. While
it might not be exactly the right one for your laptop, you should be
able to boot from it (running entirely from the DVD and in RAM, same as
the Linux options) and get at the recovery console, where we might be
able to repair corrupted files, partition tables, and so on. This would
only be worth doing if the drive itself is fine, but has just had its
contents corrupted somehow; I think the first thing is to establish
that. You can do that by *EITHER* booting a Windows or Linux disc on the
laptop (running entirely from the DVD/CD and in RAM) and using that to
_look at_ the HD in its normal place in the laptop, *OR* taking the HD
out of the laptop and examining it using another computer, EITHER by
connecting it internally OR accessing it via USB (dock, "cable", or
housing). I prefer the latter method as (a) I have a dock (b) I don't
know my way around Linux, or the Windows recovery console. YMMV.
[]

[HB]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by HB
I had to pass since Linux was a 8 GB download and I don't have unlimited ISP
service. The website didn't say what to do with it once downloaded. The
extenstion was unknown to me. The MS rescue software I downloaded did
nothing to boot the Toshiba nor did the Avira boot disk.

Was the extension .iso?

No, not ISO. I don't remember but never saw it before.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
If you're not sure about this, ask (telling us

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
what burning software you use) and we'll help; if necessary, we'll
recommend suitable free burning software. (The most popular seems to be
ImgBurn, version 2.5.8.0 or 2.5.7.0 [later versions have junk bundled with
them], which can be got from repositories like oldversion.com -
http://www.oldversion.com/windows/imgburn-2-5-7-0 .)

I have Ashampoo installed. I would have to go through the thumb-drives to
see what else I have saved and not installed. I personally haven't burned a
CD or DVD in years.

If it looks like the screenshots on
https://www.ashampoo.com/uk/gbp/psr/7110/burning-software/burning-studio-free
, then on the "Main" screen, I _suspect_ you want "Disc Image" rather than
"Burn Data"; without having it installed myself, however, I'm not sure if
Disc Image is for *making* (.iso) images *of* _existing_ CD/DVDs, or for
burning them *from* an .iso file. Try clicking on it: it should be obvious
which. (It may do both - in fact if it can take images of existing discs,
it's unlikely it can't also burn from such images.)

So the Linux PUPPY file will be what's called an ISO file? And I have to
find out if my copy of Ashampoo burns ISO files. What about Imgburn? I
think that one burns them.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Alternatively, get ImgBurn - Paul has shown where. It's obvious when
running that. But I suspect your Ashampoo can do it.

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
it in the tray and.....? At what point does the CD go into the tray?
That

Ideally, before you turn on the computer. Since you'll need it on to eject
the tray (unless you use the paperclip method), turn it on, press the
eject button, turn it off.

Post by HB
wont mess up the windows files already on the HD?

Just booting the Linux shouldn't. Things you do while _in_ the Linux may,
but only deliberate actions - and after all, assuming the HD doesn't have
a hardware fault, we're going to have to tweak files on it anyway.

OK... so I look for and download Linux PUPPY and burn it to a DVD. Eject
tray, then off the PC, insert DVD and turn the PC back on. What supposed to
happen then?

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
Wouldn't it be easier for me to just take the HD to a shop and let them
check it? How would Linux get the Toshiba to boot since it doesn't react to
the rescue discs? Isn't there anything smaller to give the same
information?

SHOP: Depends what relationship you have with the shop. If they're going
to charge you their standard service charge just for looking at it, then I
imagine that'd be more than the cost of the external dock (at least if
bought online) anyway. If you do get them to look at it, then there's
incentive for them to say it's duff to get you to buy a new one - I doubt,
unless it's a very good shop, that they'd recover it for you even if they
say it isn't duff: the best they're likely to do is offer to reinstall
Windows from scratch.
LINUX: the laptop should boot from a CD/DVD, provided (a) the CD has been
burned correctly (not just the .iso file written to it as data),

How is it burned properly? I am in alien terratory here. How do I know
how/where to get the PUPPY version as an ISO?

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
and (b) the laptop's BIOS boot sequence is set to try CD/DVD first.
SMALLER: Linuxes _are_ smaller than 8G; we're not sure what it is you have
downloaded.

I didn't download it then I saw the unknown EXE.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by HB
I don't know know if it's SATA. Opening up the case and pulling out parts
is not something I'm anxious to do. How would I know if the HDs good or not
if it's hooked to the CD cables? What would that tell me?

If you did that, then turned on that PC and went into Windows Explorer
(Windows key and E), if you can see a drive or drives other than the
existing hard disc and any card reader slots that normally come up, then
you are getting some response from it. If it shows how full that disc is,
things are looking even better. If you can then see what files are on it,
things are looking very good. You would also be able to run assorted tests
on it - read its SMART data, do an HDTune read run, and so on.

How can I do it using the USB port? Where do I get a Dock?

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
It will cost me because I don't have unlimited service and will either go
over the 20 GBs or my family will have around 2 GB for the rest of the month
which is unrealistic around here. Verizon charges $10 a GB and it adds up
fast. There has to be something smaller than that out there.I know nothing
about Linux. It would be useless to me.

Paul has given you a link to one that's under 400 MB. Personally I
wouldn't go that route as I know virtually nothing of Linux either, but
then I already have an external disc dock, and even if I didn't, I would
not be averse to putting the disc inside a desktop computer that had the
right cables. Your situation may be different.

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Another alternative would be to make a Windows 7 DVD (see one of Paul's
posts), and boot from that, to get at the recovery console.

How do I do that when you can't move W software that comes with one PC to

You'd follow Paul's instructions on how to make the Windows DVD. While it
might not be exactly the right one for your laptop, you should be able to
boot from it (running entirely from the DVD and in RAM, same as the Linux
options) and get at the recovery console, where we might be able to repair
corrupted files, partition tables, and so on. This would only be worth
doing if the drive itself is fine, but has just had its contents corrupted
somehow; I think the first thing is to establish that. You can do that by
*EITHER* booting a Windows or Linux disc on the laptop (running entirely
from the DVD/CD and in RAM) and using that to _look at_ the HD in its
normal place in the laptop, *OR* taking the HD out of the laptop and
examining it using another computer, EITHER by connecting it internally OR
accessing it via USB (dock, "cable", or housing). I prefer the latter
method as (a) I have a dock (b) I don't know my way around Linux, or the
Windows recovery console. YMMV.
[]
--
I can prove anything with statistics - except the truth.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by HB
I had to pass since Linux was a 8 GB download and I don't have unlimited ISP
service. The website didn't say what to do with it once downloaded. The
extenstion was unknown to me. The MS rescue software I downloaded did
nothing to boot the Toshiba nor did the Avira boot disk.

Was the extension .iso?

No, not ISO. I don't remember but never saw it before.

Ignore the 8 GB one.
[]

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
I have Ashampoo installed. I would have to go through the thumb-drives to
see what else I have saved and not installed. I personally haven't burned a
CD or DVD in years.

If it looks like the screenshots on
https://www.ashampoo.com/uk/gbp/psr/7110/burning-software/burning-studio-free
, then on the "Main" screen, I _suspect_ you want "Disc Image" rather than
"Burn Data"; without having it installed myself, however, I'm not sure if
Disc Image is for *making* (.iso) images *of* _existing_ CD/DVDs, or for
burning them *from* an .iso file. Try clicking on it: it should be obvious
which. (It may do both - in fact if it can take images of existing discs,
it's unlikely it can't also burn from such images.)

So the Linux PUPPY file will be what's called an ISO file? And I have to

Yes, probably.

Post by HB
find out if my copy of Ashampoo burns ISO files. What about Imgburn? I

"Burns _from_ ISO files" would be more precise.

Post by HB
think that one burns them.

ImgBurn definitely can burn from ISO files.
[]

Post by HB
OK... so I look for and download Linux PUPPY and burn it to a DVD. Eject

Using the burn-from-ISO option.

Post by HB
tray, then off the PC, insert DVD and turn the PC back on. What supposed to
happen then?

The PC should boot Linux from the CD/DVD. You will know this is
happening, as the screen will show things you haven't seen before, and
it will access the CD/DVD drive a lot (several minutes I think). Once it
_has_ booted Linux, and settled down, you should be able to use it to
examine the HD; for details of how to do that in Linux, you'll have to
get instructions from one of those here who knows Linux, which I don't.
If you get to this point, tell us: you don't have to leave the PC on
while waiting for an answer, you can turn it off at that point until
you've got the instructions - it's unlikely to corrupt the HD any more
than it already is.

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by HB
Wouldn't it be easier for me to just take the HD to a shop and let them
check it? How would Linux get the Toshiba to boot since it doesn't react to
the rescue discs? Isn't there anything smaller to give the same
information?

SHOP: Depends what relationship you have with the shop. If they're going
to charge you their standard service charge just for looking at it, then I
imagine that'd be more than the cost of the external dock (at least if
bought online) anyway. If you do get them to look at it, then there's
incentive for them to say it's duff to get you to buy a new one - I doubt,
unless it's a very good shop, that they'd recover it for you even if they
say it isn't duff: the best they're likely to do is offer to reinstall
Windows from scratch.
LINUX: the laptop should boot from a CD/DVD, provided (a) the CD has been
burned correctly (not just the .iso file written to it as data),

How is it burned properly? I am in alien terratory here. How do I know
how/where to get the PUPPY version as an ISO?

I think Paul has told you where to get it. Paul, was that an ISO you
pointed him to, or a .zip of an ISO, or something else?

Post by HB

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
and (b) the laptop's BIOS boot sequence is set to try CD/DVD first.
SMALLER: Linuxes _are_ smaller than 8G; we're not sure what it is you have
downloaded.

I didn't download it then I saw the unknown EXE.

Sorry, I don't understand that sentence )-:.
[]

Post by HB
How can I do it using the USB port? Where do I get a Dock?

I gave you a link in another post, though that one might have been from
China, I can't remember - I was really only looking for a picture to
show you. Your local computer shop _might_ have docks, but failing that,
put "USB dock" or similar phrases into the search box at ebay or Amazon,
and look for something that looks like the picture in the link I gave
you.
[]

[Java Jive]

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.

Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.

No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip
on the motherboard, not written to the HD.

{
Hopefully irrelevant historical note:

Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter
the useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must
have remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as
booting the OS, but the BIOS GUI was definitely missing. Consequently,
I rewrote the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.

I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.

This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a
better faster newer laptop.

I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
not - the above is not.

What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.

Post by HB
I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe
mode.

What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.

You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC
is built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular
place in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds
there. These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System
(the BIOS that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some
self-diagnostic tests, then if these are satisfactory it searches any
attached media - hard disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is
settable within the BIOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run.
Usually, as in your case, it finds an OS on the first partition of the
only HD, and, again as in your case, it is often Windows. There is more
detail on another page on my site that describes this process:

http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/PCBootProcess.html

Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an
OS to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.

Post by HB
I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as
well have been in Chinese.

BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that
most of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next
we have to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we
know so far, the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be
premature to *assume* that at this stage.

More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent
three days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system,
something which I've never done before, and I did it successfully
because I did it step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time.
You have to be prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and
trying to understand what needs to be understood.

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.

OK.. will do.

Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if
it can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be
retrieved from it.

IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn
the Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot
from that.

[HB]

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.

Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.

No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on
the motherboard, not written to the HD.

I learn something every day. Seriously.

Post by Java Jive
{
Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter the
useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must have
remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as booting
the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.

I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.

This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a
better faster newer laptop.

I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
ot - the above is not.
What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.

Post by HB
I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe
mode.

What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.

I hear it spin up and when the PC gets hot the I can hear a fan start.

Post by Java Jive
You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC is
built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular place
in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds there.
These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System (the BIOS
that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some self-diagnostic tests,
then if these are satisfactory it searches any attached media - hard
disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is settable within the
IOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run. Usually, as in your case, it
finds an OS on the first partition of the only HD, and, again as in your
case, it is often Windows. There is more detail on another page on my
site that describes this process.
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/PCBootProcess.htm

Interesting and informative. I'll check your site tomorrow.

Post by Java Jive
Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an OS
to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.

Post by HB
I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as
well have been in Chinese.

BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most
of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have
to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far,
the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to
*assume* that at this stage.

OK.

Post by Java Jive
More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three
days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system, something
which I've never done before, and I did it successfully because I did it
step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time. You have to be
prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and trying to
understand what needs to be understood.

I agree with you completely. Glaze mode sounds familiar.

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.

OK.. will do.OS.

Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if it
can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be retrieved
from it.

No, my job and family interfered. I have to stop and pick up a flash drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I
just insert the flash and turn the Toshiba on and see what happens? What's
suppose to happen? I know nothing about that OS. Or I can use DVDs. Maybe
that's the better choice since there are plenty of them here. That should be
handled tomorrow. Too much coffee, not enough sleep.

Post by Java Jive
IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the
Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from
that.

F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility. I got the Boot tab where it can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.

The battery is still charged as it's not plugged in this time either.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on
the motherboard, not written to the HD.

I learn something every day. Seriously.

As do we all! I'm learning odd snippets from this thread, too.
[]

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.

I hear it spin up and when the PC gets hot the I can hear a fan start.

So you're definitely hearing the HD spinning, not the fan. Good to know.
[]

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most
of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have

I second that. And if it is, even if the HD _is_ duff, I'd say it's
probably worth the effort to resuscitate it: a laptop of the W7 era (I'm
assuming it _is_ of the W7 era [look at stickers on it] not one that's
been upgraded from Vista or before) probably _is_ worth something. (And
you'll need a 7 machine anyway, for your daughter's favourite game!)

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far,
the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to
*assume* that at this stage.

I agree.

Post by HB
OK.

Post by Java Jive
More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three

[]

Post by HB
I agree with you completely. Glaze mode sounds familiar.

I _try_ not to give too much information at once, to avoid glaze mode -
but I do like to give a lot of background information (as do the others
here), which I do recognise can lead to glaze. Part of the reason I say
"please read to end" is to avoid panic mode, where you do one of the
first things described, where one of the later ones might be easier.

And I _try_ not to sound condescending. I hope I succeed most of the
time.
[]

Post by HB
No, my job and family interfered. I have to stop and pick up a flash drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I

(Ubuntu, I think.) Might be easier to just use a DVD (though it will
boot slower). [Though see previous post about burning from an ISO not
just as data.] (You other guys: if he _does_ use a memory stick, is
there anything similar to ISO-ing a DVD that has to be done when loading
the stick, to make it bootable, or doesn't that apply?)

Post by HB
just insert the flash and turn the Toshiba on and see what happens? What's
suppose to happen? I know nothing about that OS. Or I can use DVDs. Maybe
that's the better choice since there are plenty of them here. That should be
handled tomorrow. Too much coffee, not enough sleep.

Post by Java Jive
IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the
Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from
that.

F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility. I got the Boot tab where it can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.

Or, I hope, CD/DVD (or words to that effect).

As long as they're all listed, it shouldn't matter _too_ much, as that
list _usually_ just determines the _order_ in which the BIOS looks for
something bootable: if it doesn't find anything bootable on the first in
the list, it'll look in the next, and so on. Useful if you _can_ make
sure CD/DVD or USB (as appropriate) is first, though.

Post by HB
The battery is still charged as it's not plugged in this time either.

I think that was a red herring (though we might need to establish why it
said it wasn't charging, if we ever get back to that point): I'd leave
it plugged in while we're doing the investigating/fixing.

[Java Jive]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

No, my job and family interfered.  I have to stop and pick up a flash
drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I

(Ubuntu, I think.) Might be easier to just use a DVD (though it will
boot slower). [Though see previous post about burning from an ISO not
just as data.] (You other guys: if he _does_ use a memory stick, is
there anything similar to ISO-ing a DVD that has to be done when loading
the stick, to make it bootable, or doesn't that apply?)

You have to write the image to the stick so as to make it bootable,
similarly to a CD/DVD - AFAIAA, you can't just copy the files across.
There is free software out there to do this. I use Rufus, but I believe
there are plenty of others.

http://rufus.akeo.ie

The OP should buy more than one USB stick, as sometimes they fail when
being written to, just as sometimes happens with CDs & DVDs. You can
buy packs of 5 x 4GB or similar fairly cheaply, and they come in useful
for other things as well.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility.  I got the Boot tab where it
can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.

Or, I hope, CD/DVD (or words to that effect).
As long as they're all listed, it shouldn't matter _too_ much, as that
list _usually_ just determines the _order_ in which the BIOS looks for
something bootable: if it doesn't find anything bootable on the first in
the list, it'll look in the next, and so on. Useful if you _can_ make
sure CD/DVD or USB (as appropriate) is first, though.

Yes, because if the HD is failing in an awkward way, it may prevent the
BIOS from moving on to try the next type of media. One of the first
things I change on any PC is the boot order to be as follows ...

Laptops: USB CD/DVD HD
Desktops: FD USB CD/DVD HD

I wouldn't imagine that many home users ever use booting via LAN, it's
more the sort of thing that corporate PCs might be set up to do.

[tesla sTinker]

This sounds like the bios has skipped, forgotten its fire up drive.
When battery goes bad in them, they reset to default and when they do
that, the fire up drive is not the same anymore. Holding down the cntrl
shift and delete keys while hitting the power button may just bring you
into the bios. Then you can use the up dwn arrow keys to reset the fire
up drive which should be C:/windows This may or may not work, But if
it does not, at least you will see what your fire up drive is if you get
into the bios this way. See Toshiba as to how to do this, enter the
bios chip when you power up the machine. If this here, does not work.
The keys may be different as to which ones to hold down while hitting
the power button.

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.

Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.

No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on
the motherboard, not written to the HD.

I learn something every day. Seriously.

Post by Java Jive
{
Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter the
useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must have
remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as booting
the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.

I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.

This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a
better faster newer laptop.

I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
ot - the above is not.
What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.

Post by HB
I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe
mode.

What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.

I hear it spin up and when the PC gets hot the I can hear a fan start.

Post by Java Jive
You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC is
built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular place
in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds there.
These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System (the BIOS
that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some self-diagnostic tests,
then if these are satisfactory it searches any attached media - hard
disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is settable within the
IOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run. Usually, as in your case, it
finds an OS on the first partition of the only HD, and, again as in your
case, it is often Windows. There is more detail on another page on my
site that describes this process.
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/PCBootProcess.htm

Interesting and informative. I'll check your site tomorrow.

Post by Java Jive
Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an OS
to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.

Post by HB
I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as
well have been in Chinese.

BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most
of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have
to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far,
the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to
*assume* that at this stage.

OK.

Post by Java Jive
More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three
days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system, something
which I've never done before, and I did it successfully because I did it
step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time. You have to be
prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and trying to
understand what needs to be understood.

I agree with you completely. Glaze mode sounds familiar.

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.

OK.. will do.OS.

Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if it
can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be retrieved
from it.

No, my job and family interfered. I have to stop and pick up a flash drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I
just insert the flash and turn the Toshiba on and see what happens? What's
suppose to happen? I know nothing about that OS. Or I can use DVDs. Maybe
that's the better choice since there are plenty of them here. That should be
handled tomorrow. Too much coffee, not enough sleep.

Post by Java Jive
IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the
Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from
that.

F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility. I got the Boot tab where it can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.
The battery is still charged as it's not plugged in this time either.

[tesla sTinker]

If the machine is not picking up the fire up drive and correct path to
start windows, all you will get is a black screen. Until you reset the
bios and the boot path for it. When a bios battery goes dead, even if
it is for only a second, it defaults its switches. Another words, it
may of defaulted back to another drive, or even if its not the drive but
the path, it still will come up blank. Until you reset the bios chip.
All computers read the bios first, at startup. Then windows powers up
according to the bios. If the path to the boot is ok that is. Use that
machines instructions of how to enter the bios. Use another computer
online to find that information. All machines have a way to enter the
bios chip. Without the correct bios, the computer has no way to know
what to do. Until you reset it. Safe mode will not even work. It has to
enter the op system first, before you can possibly use safe mode. But
what you have descriptive here, Sounds like a bad bios battery yup.

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.

Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.

No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on
the motherboard, not written to the HD.

I learn something every day. Seriously.

Post by Java Jive
{
Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter the
useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must have
remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as booting
the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.

I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.

This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a
better faster newer laptop.

I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
ot - the above is not.
What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.

Post by HB
I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe
mode.

What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.

I hear it spin up and when the PC gets hot the I can hear a fan start.

Post by Java Jive
You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC is
built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular place
in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds there.
These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System (the BIOS
that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some self-diagnostic tests,
then if these are satisfactory it searches any attached media - hard
disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is settable within the
IOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run. Usually, as in your case, it
finds an OS on the first partition of the only HD, and, again as in your
case, it is often Windows. There is more detail on another page on my
site that describes this process.
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/PCBootProcess.htm

Interesting and informative. I'll check your site tomorrow.

Post by Java Jive
Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an OS
to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.

Post by HB
I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as
well have been in Chinese.

BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most
of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have
to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far,
the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to
*assume* that at this stage.

OK.

Post by Java Jive
More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three
days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system, something
which I've never done before, and I did it successfully because I did it
step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time. You have to be
prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and trying to
understand what needs to be understood.

I agree with you completely. Glaze mode sounds familiar.

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.

OK.. will do.OS.

Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if it
can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be retrieved
from it.

No, my job and family interfered. I have to stop and pick up a flash drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I
just insert the flash and turn the Toshiba on and see what happens? What's
suppose to happen? I know nothing about that OS. Or I can use DVDs. Maybe
that's the better choice since there are plenty of them here. That should be
handled tomorrow. Too much coffee, not enough sleep.

Post by Java Jive
IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the
Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from
that.

F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility. I got the Boot tab where it can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.
The battery is still charged as it's not plugged in this time either.

[tesla sTinker]

and the last thing \I will mention, is a bios battery is not the laptop
battery, it is a separate battery much smaller inside the machine where
it is not accessible. But still, it must be changed if it is bad. They
do not last forever those little batteries. About the size of a watch
battery.

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
whereas I think your other half meant just the hard drive, assuming it was
dead, did she not? This is a standard way of preventing personal data
being retrieved from binned HDs. Personally, I use a lump hammer and a
cold chisel on a concrete floor or step.

Yes, that's what she meant. Destroy the HD.

Thought as much, but let's make sure that it really is dead before we
perform the last rites ...

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
But is the HD really dead, or has it just got corrupted ...

It's not dead as it brought up technical screens when tapping F8 or F2. It
ran fine with the battery not charged and plugged in.

No, the technical screens come from the BIOS, which is *usually* a chip on
the motherboard, not written to the HD.

I learn something every day. Seriously.

Post by Java Jive
{
Having said that, about 15-20 years ago I encountered some Dell desktops
where some of the BIOS functions were combined with some Dell system
recovery functions on a hidden first partition of the HD, and if, as was
the firm's policy, you wiped the HD before putting the firm's standard
build on it, you lost that partition and thereby the ability to enter the
useful BIOS interactive GUI. I presume some BIOS functionality must have
remained, because otherwise the PCs could not have got as far as booting
the scripts to leave the hidden partition in place.
}

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.

I would suggest going to Toshiba's site and comparing what you have with
pictures of other models and their given designations one of which will
probably be close to the above. When dealing with problems or buying
spares, it is *nearly always important* to know exactly what it is that
you have.

This was given to us by a realtive. She said it was too slow and wanted a
better faster newer laptop.

I'm afraid that you must learn what is useful information and what is
ot - the above is not.
What would be useful is for you to find the exact model number by
comparing what you have with information from Toshiba's website.

Post by HB
I could usually get rid of problems like this by accessing
safe mode and doing as System Recovery or Restore. But nothing led to safe
mode.

What you are referring to as 'Safe Mode' is part of Windows, which you
will only reach if the HD is working.

I hear it spin up and when the PC gets hot the I can hear a fan start.

Post by Java Jive
You need to get your head around how a PC boots. The processor in a PC is
built in such a way that on receiving power it goes to a particular place
in its memory to begin execution of whatever instructions it finds there.
These instructions are part of the Basic Input Output System (the BIOS
that we keep mentioning). The BIOS performs some self-diagnostic tests,
then if these are satisfactory it searches any attached media - hard
disk, CD/DVD, or USB stick, in an order that is settable within the
IOS - for an Operating System (OS) to run. Usually, as in your case, it
finds an OS on the first partition of the only HD, and, again as in your
case, it is often Windows. There is more detail on another page on my
site that describes this process.
http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/PCHardware/PCBootProcess.htm

Interesting and informative. I'll check your site tomorrow.

Post by Java Jive
Whether or not you choose to understand the details above, the important
consequence is that, if the HD has gone down, the PC can never find an OS
to run, and can never offer you Windows 'Safe Mode'.

Post by HB
I'll do some Googling again and see if I find anything helpful. I'm sure a
tech would have found those screens that came up helpful. To me they may as
well have been in Chinese.

BUT the fact that you have got into the BIOS at all does suggest that most
of the PC is functioning, and in itself that is encouraging. Next we have
to find out which part of the PC is broken, and, from what we know so far,
the hard disk does seem a likely culprit, but it would be premature to
*assume* that at this stage.

OK.

Post by Java Jive
More generally, when reading technical stuff that is unfamiliar to you,
it's important to resist developing the habit of going into either panic
or glaze mode. Although officially I'm now retired, I've just spent three
days at a legacy client's configuring a cloud phone system, something
which I've never done before, and I did it successfully because I did it
step by step, trying to understand one thing at a time. You have to be
prepared to invest some time and effort in studying and trying to
understand what needs to be understood.

I agree with you completely. Glaze mode sounds familiar.

Post by Java Jive

Post by HB

Post by Java Jive
If the laptop can boot from a USB stick, then download an Ubuntu or other
Linux distro - make sure you get a suitable one, 32-bit or 64-bit as
appropriate - install it on a 2GB or larger USB stick, depending on the
size of the download, and see what messages Linux generates as it tries to
boot the PC. This may give you some useful pointers to a hardware fault.
If the PC boots from the stick, then you should see your hard disk
partition(s) as clickable icons down the left hand side menu (in Ubuntu,
other distros may be different, for example the icons may be on the
desktop). Try this and come back to us with a description of what
happens, particularly whether the PC boots at all, whether Linux lets see
your HD at all, and even the contents of it.

OK.. will do.OS.

Have you tried this yet? If the PC can boot from a USB stick, then
hopefully all that is wrong is the HD, so then we would have to see if it
can be retrieved as a whole, or at least if your data can be retrieved
from it.

No, my job and family interfered. I have to stop and pick up a flash drive
as the ones I have don't have 2 GB of space left for this Ubantu. I assume I
just insert the flash and turn the Toshiba on and see what happens? What's
suppose to happen? I know nothing about that OS. Or I can use DVDs. Maybe
that's the better choice since there are plenty of them here. That should be
handled tomorrow. Too much coffee, not enough sleep.

Post by Java Jive
IMPORTANT NOTE: You may have to master an understanding of the BIOS
sufficient to set the boot order so as to ensure that the PC will try to
boot from a USB stick, if one is present. If that is beyond you, burn the
Linux distro to a CD or DVD instead, and see if the PC will boot from
that.

F2 brought up InsydeH20 Setup Utility. I got the Boot tab where it can be
changed from HDD/SSD to FDD, LAN or USB.
The battery is still charged as it's not plugged in this time either.

[Wolf K]

On 2018-03-11 06:11, HB wrote:

[...]

Post by HB
On the back it just says Satellite followed by numbers. I don't know which
numbers would be relevant. This is the 1st number. C655D (or 0) S5063 system
unit.

Use the whole thing first with the D, if that doesn't work, then with
the 0, for a search string. Start with "Toshiba". (Sheesh, do you really
need to be told that? Just experiment, fergawdssake!)

Post by HB
What makes you think it's the battery since it worked fine without it as
long as it was plugged in? > I had this same "going blank" with the blinking
"-" in the upper left hand corner before and they were desktops. I don't
remember the exact figures anymore but to fix them, according to the shops
where I lived at the time, wasn't worth what it would cost. An XP and a
Vista both went the same way.
It wasn't dead when plugged in as info came up when I tapped F2 or F8 but
not safe mode.

You've already been told that "safe mode" is in Windows, _not_ in the
computer. You can't get into safe mode until Windows is loaded. Which
isn't happening, right?

Post by HB
Nothing that showed was familiar to me.

Google it.

Post by HB
A repair tech would
know what the info meant but it was Chinese to me.

You either got a standard BIOS screen, which gives you options to
select, or you got an error message. Which was it? If it was an error
message, what did it say?

Post by HB
So it didn't need a
battery to run.

That's not a sound inference. Why? Because if it were "running", it
would load Windows. OTOH, if the disk drive is somehow corrupted, it
wouldn't load Windows, either. Without an error message, there's no way
of telling.

A tech could find out, but that would cost you. But maybe a the fee for
diagnosis would be worth it. At worst, it would confirm that the machine
is toast. At best, it would indicate what repair(s) would make it
functional again.

Post by HB
I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.

Well, if the machine won't load Windows, you can't do that. But if it
did load Windows, you wouldn't need to do it. So....

Without further information, there's no point continuing this thread.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

[]

Post by Wolf K

Post by HB
I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode. I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.

Well, if the machine won't load Windows, you can't do that. But if it

Not _strictly_ true; there are ways to do a system restore on the disc
from another machine. It's convoluted, and needs concentration, and is
easy to screw up by doing the wrong thing at the wrong stage. I'm not
sure _I_ could do it. See the archives of this 'group (and the XP one);
sorry, I can't remember search terms.

Post by Wolf K
did load Windows, you wouldn't need to do it. So....
Without further information, there's no point continuing this thread.

Certainly not with that attitude. Come on, give the guy some slack! I
know there are those who come here without adequate preparation *and
continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just perhaps has a
little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to be doing his
best to answer questions, even keeping calm and answering those in a
tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is likely to drive away
newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't to just remain as the
five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that knowledgeable - as my posts in the
last two weeks or so must show! - about Windows 7 as such.)

[Wolf K]

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by Wolf K

Post by HB
I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode.  I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.

Well, if the machine won't load Windows, you can't do that. But if it

Not _strictly_ true; there are ways to do a system restore on the disc
from another machine. It's convoluted, and needs concentration, and is
easy to screw up by doing the wrong thing at the wrong stage. I'm not
sure _I_ could do it. See the archives of this 'group (and the XP one);
sorry, I can't remember search terms.

If I read you correctly, you're saying an image copied from another
machine might restore the disk (if it is in fact the disk that's the
problem.) I agree, I wouldn't recommend OP try to do that.

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Wolf K
did load Windows, you wouldn't need to do it. So....
Without further information, there's no point continuing this thread.

Certainly not with that attitude. Come on, give the guy some slack!

OK, should've said "If we can't get more information, we can't continue
trying to solve the problem."

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I
know there are those who come here without adequate preparation *and
continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just perhaps has a
little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to be doing his
best to answer questions, even keeping calm and answering those in a
tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is likely to drive away
newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't to just remain as the
five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that knowledgeable - as my posts in the
last two weeks or so must show! - about Windows 7 as such.)

What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery. See Vanguard's post, which
is an attempt to get clarity on that question.

[Patrick]

I know there are those who come here without adequate preparation *and
continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just perhaps has
a little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to be doing his
best to answer questions, even keeping calm and answering those in a
tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is likely to drive away
newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't to just remain as the
five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that knowledgeable - as my posts in the
last two weeks or so must show! - about Windows 7 as such.)

 What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery. See Vanguard's post, which
is an attempt to get clarity on that question.

From the numbers/details ascertained from the OP, the machine appears
to be this;

https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964

[HB]

Post by Wolf K

I know there are those who come here without adequate preparation *and
continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just perhaps has a
little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to be doing his
best to answer questions, even keeping calm and answering those in a
tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is likely to drive away
newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't to just remain as the
five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that knowledgeable - as my posts in the
last two weeks or so must show! - about Windows 7 as such.)

What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery. See Vanguard's post, which is
an attempt to get clarity on that question.

From the numbers/details ascertained from the OP, the machine appears to
be this;
https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964

That sure looks like it. I'll check that site when I finish up here and
have free time later tonight.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by Wolf K

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
[]

Post by Wolf K

Post by HB
I hate to toss it because it's like new. No one liked it
because it was slow. I was hoping to do a system recovery but couldn't get
into safe mode.  I don't know any other way to do a system restore or
recovery.

Well, if the machine won't load Windows, you can't do that. But if it

Not _strictly_ true; there are ways to do a system restore on the
disc from another machine. It's convoluted, and needs concentration,
and is easy to screw up by doing the wrong thing at the wrong stage.
I'm not sure _I_ could do it. See the archives of this 'group (and
the XP one); sorry, I can't remember search terms.

If I read you correctly, you're saying an image copied from another
machine might restore the disk (if it is in fact the disk that's the
problem.) I agree, I wouldn't recommend OP try to do that.

No, I meant I remember seeing a way to get at previous restore points on
a disc that won't boot. It was something like: find the relevant files
(using another computer) in a directory with an obscure random-sounding
name, and save them; "repair" the system (in the faulty machine), such
that it creates initial as-new restore points; take the disc out again,
and replace (on the other computer) the as-new restore files with the
ones you've saved. I've probably missed some steps, or got them in the
wrong order; it's a while since I saw it described.

Post by Wolf K

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)

Post by Wolf K
did load Windows, you wouldn't need to do it. So....
Without further information, there's no point continuing this thread.

Certainly not with that attitude. Come on, give the guy some slack!

OK, should've said "If we can't get more information, we can't continue
trying to solve the problem."

Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I know there are those who come here without adequate preparation
*and continue that way*, but I think this guy is genuine, just
perhaps has a little less experience than some of us/you; he seems to
be doing his best to answer questions, even keeping calm and
answering those in a tirade from Mayayana! Using a flamethrower is
likely to drive away newcomers, and we need them, if the 'group isn't
to just remain as the five or ten of us. (_I_ am not that
knowledgeable - as my posts in the last two weeks or so must show! -
about Windows 7 as such.)

What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery.

I agree, I'm waiting for him to answer that one, as it's a simple thing
to try.

Post by Wolf K
See Vanguard's post, which is an attempt to get clarity on that
question.

I did see one - quite a rant! - from Vanguard, followed by one from this
guy which seemed to me to be a very patient response. Granted, he didn't
reply to all the questions Vanguard asked, but I think he answered
several of them.

[HB]

"Wolf K" <***@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:WYfpC.69714$***@fx21.iad...
-snip -

Post by Wolf K
What I meant was what we need the information that OP refers to but
doesn't quote/specify. I'm still not sure whether the machine boots on
external power with or without the battery. See Vanguard's post, which is
an attempt to get clarity on that question.

Let me clarify. I noticed the battery stopped charging maybe 3 weeks ago.
The battery looked to be at zero for days. If the cursor was placed on the
battery icon it read something like, "plugged in not charging". I figured
the battery bit the dust but it worked fine so anyone who wanted to use it
would plug it in, then turn it on. It would boot right up into windows and
run fine. Then one everning I did the same but the screen was black with
the blinking " - " in the upper left hand corner. I shut it off and started
it tapping the F8 key and some window came up with tech info but no choices
such as safe mode. One window came up and the choice was to do a memory
check which said memory was OK. I'm not sure which F key brought up that
window.

That's as far as I got with it. You know the rest.

[VanguardLH]

With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.

Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?

https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=2737864

A special-use partition is created on the HDD to perform the factory
default installation. It is either an image to lay back on the HDD or
an installer to perform a default install. If the laptop didn't come
with recovery CDs, the manual probably mentioned how to create them
after you received the prebuilt computer.

[HB]

Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.

It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding. But
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?

Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?

At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."

The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
The choices are:

HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB

It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."

So which one do I select? I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.

Post by VanguardLH
https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=2737864
A special-use partition is created on the HDD to perform the factory
default installation. It is either an image to lay back on the HDD or
an installer to perform a default install. If the laptop didn't come
with recovery CDs, the manual probably mentioned how to create them
after you received the prebuilt computer.

How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?

[Wolf K]

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.

It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding. But
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?

Well, all those options are served up by BIOS (_not_ Windows!). BIOS is
the built-in program that starts when you turn on the power. It has two
jobs: first, to find the boot loader and load (start) the operating
system (Windows in your case). Second, if interrupted, to offer options
for miscellaneous diagnostic tests and hardware settings. That's what
you saw when you hit F2 (or F8). F12 switches to another options screen.

BIOS is running the way it should. But it is unable to start the
bootloader on the C: drive (the hard disk). That means one of two things:
a) The Master Boot Record on the HDD is corrupt or missing. But in that
case, you should see a message saying BIOS "can't find ntloader".

b) BIOS can't access the HDD. There are several possible reasons for
this. The worst case from your POV is that the HDD is toast. In that
case, rescuing the laptop would entail opening up the laptop and
replacing the HDD, not a simple job.

A more favourable (cheaper) possibility is that the HDD connector is
bad, and reseating it would fix the problem. Like changing the drive
itself, that would entail opening up the laptop.

You may be able to find out if BIOS can access the HDD. One of the
Diagnostic screen should include s a test of the HDD. Look for anything
that looks like it will test or scan the HDD, and run that. If that test
or scan fails, BIOS cannot access the HDD.

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?

If by "boot screen" you mean the one shown when Windows boots, then it's
npot accessible, since the laptop isn't booting.

Post by HB
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB > It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."

Those are all possible locations for the bootloader. Eg HDD/SD is the
hard drive (If the boot is successful, you see it as the C: drive)

Boot priority just means the order in which BIOS will try to find the
bootloader.

FDD is a floppy disk drive, which the laptop doesn't have. It's left
over from the that desktops came with floppy disk drives. Not re;levant
for you.

CD/DVD is obvious.

LAN is the Local Area Network. This is for desktops that are booted from
the network. Not relevant for you

USB is a USB connected drive. It could be USB memory stick or an
external hard drive.

Post by HB
So which one do I select?

CD/DVD. The computer will try that first, then the other options in
sequence. It's actually doing that, starting with the HDD, but it looks
like can't find a boot loader.

Post by HB
I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.

[...]

Post by HB
How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?

You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would
merely confirm that the HDD is bad.

So, based on what you've described, IMO the HDD is the problem and you
have to decide whether it's worth your money to have the laptop repaired.

Best wishes,

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <0UGpC.224306$***@fx37.iad>, Wolf K
<***@sympatico.ca> writes:
[]

Post by Wolf K
b) BIOS can't access the HDD. There are several possible reasons for
this. The worst case from your POV is that the HDD is toast. In that
case, rescuing the laptop would entail opening up the laptop and
replacing the HDD, not a simple job.
A more favourable (cheaper) possibility is that the HDD connector is
bad, and reseating it would fix the problem. Like changing the drive
itself, that would entail opening up the laptop.

Not necessarily: it depends whether the laptop has an HD hatch. A lot
do, i. e. a panel which can be removed (sometimes needing a _few_ screws
to be removed, granted) to access the HD, but not requiring the whole
back to be taken off, which I agree is decidedly fiddly. (On this laptop
- also a Toshiba - one of the screws for the HD flap is actually under
the RAM flap, but if this is the case it should be fairly obvious.)

Post by Wolf K
You may be able to find out if BIOS can access the HDD. One of the
Diagnostic screen should include s a test of the HDD. Look for anything
that looks like it will test or scan the HDD, and run that. If that
test or scan fails, BIOS cannot access the HDD.

Though I think BIOS functions to _test_ the HD are rare.
[]

Post by Wolf K

Post by HB
I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.

You may be able to download-and-burn, or borrow, one that will get as
far as the repair console. Only of use if the HD is working OK and just
files have been corrupted, though.
[]

Post by Wolf K
You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would
merely confirm that the HDD is bad.
So, based on what you've described, IMO the HDD is the problem and you
have to decide whether it's worth your money to have the laptop
repaired.
Best wishes,

I'd say there's still a strong chance that it's just file corruption
(or, if you're _very_ lucky, the HD has just come disconnected, by
sliding around in its slot).

[HB]

I'd say there's still a strong chance that it's just file corruption (or,
if you're _very_ lucky, the HD has just come disconnected, by sliding
around in its slot).

- Snips -

It seats snugly. I can't see any way it could move short of falling off a
roof.

--
_____
___ |[]|_n_n_I_c
|___||__|###|____)
O-O--O-O+++--O-O

[HB]

Post by Wolf K

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.

It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding. But
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?

Well, all those options are served up by BIOS (_not_ Windows!). BIOS is
the built-in program that starts when you turn on the power. It has two
jobs: first, to find the boot loader and load (start) the operating system
(Windows in your case). Second, if interrupted, to offer options for
miscellaneous diagnostic tests and hardware settings. That's what you saw
when you hit F2 (or F8). F12 switches to another options screen.
BIOS is running the way it should. But it is unable to start the
a) The Master Boot Record on the HDD is corrupt or missing. But in that
case, you should see a message saying BIOS "can't find ntloader".
b) BIOS can't access the HDD. There are several possible reasons for this.
The worst case from your POV is that the HDD is toast. In that case,
rescuing the laptop would entail opening up the laptop and replacing the
HDD, not a simple job.
A more favourable (cheaper) possibility is that the HDD connector is bad,
and reseating it would fix the problem. Like changing the drive itself,
that would entail opening up the laptop.
You may be able to find out if BIOS can access the HDD. One of the
Diagnostic screen should include s a test of the HDD. Look for anything
that looks like it will test or scan the HDD, and run that. If that test
or scan fails, BIOS cannot access the HDD.

Noting about any tests on any of the 6 tabs. Googling InsydeH20 Setup
Utility will show you the tabs I mean. On the Toshiba they don't have the
same text/chices. It's somewhat different than what you see there.

Post by Wolf K

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?

If by "boot screen" you mean the one shown when Windows boots, then it's
npot accessible, since the laptop isn't booting.

Post by HB
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB > It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."

Those are all possible locations for the bootloader. Eg HDD/SD is the hard
drive (If the boot is successful, you see it as the C: drive)
Boot priority just means the order in which BIOS will try to find the
bootloader.
FDD is a floppy disk drive, which the laptop doesn't have. It's left over
from the that desktops came with floppy disk drives. Not re;levant for
you.
CD/DVD is obvious.
LAN is the Local Area Network. This is for desktops that are booted from
the network. Not relevant for you
USB is a USB connected drive. It could be USB memory stick or an external
hard drive.

Post by HB
So which one do I select?

CD/DVD. The computer will try that first, then the other options in
sequence. It's actually doing that, starting with the HDD, but it looks
like can't find a boot loader.

Post by HB
I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.

[...]

Post by HB
How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?

You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would merely
confirm that the HDD is bad.
So, based on what you've described, IMO the HDD is the problem and you
have to decide whether it's worth your money to have the laptop repaired.

Something to think about.... thanks.

Post by Wolf K
Best wishes,
--
Wolf K
kirkwood40.blogspot.com
"The next conference for the time travel design team will be held two
weeks ago."

[Wolf K]

Post by HB

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.

It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding. But
tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?

Well, all those options are served up by BIOS (_not_ Windows!). BIOS is
the built-in program that starts when you turn on the power. It has two
jobs: first, to find the boot loader and load (start) the operating system
(Windows in your case). Second, if interrupted, to offer options for
miscellaneous diagnostic tests and hardware settings. That's what you saw
when you hit F2 (or F8). F12 switches to another options screen.
BIOS is running the way it should. But it is unable to start the
a) The Master Boot Record on the HDD is corrupt or missing. But in that
case, you should see a message saying BIOS "can't find ntloader".
b) BIOS can't access the HDD. There are several possible reasons for this.
The worst case from your POV is that the HDD is toast. In that case,
rescuing the laptop would entail opening up the laptop and replacing the
HDD, not a simple job.
A more favourable (cheaper) possibility is that the HDD connector is bad,
and reseating it would fix the problem. Like changing the drive itself,
that would entail opening up the laptop.
You may be able to find out if BIOS can access the HDD. One of the
Diagnostic screen should include s a test of the HDD. Look for anything
that looks like it will test or scan the HDD, and run that. If that test
or scan fails, BIOS cannot access the HDD.

Noting about any tests on any of the 6 tabs. Googling InsydeH20 Setup
Utility will show you the tabs I mean. On the Toshiba they don't have the
same text/chices. It's somewhat different than what you see there.

OK, I think you're seeing the setup utility that you mentioned earlier.
It's apparently part of the BIOS on the Toshiba laptop. Same difference,
IOW.

Bottom line: You can't start Windows from any of those tabs.

So the choice is stark: Dump the machine, or take it to a tech who can
fix it. I know it feels bad to dump a machine, I've had to do it twice.
Both times, I took it to the local tech shop, in case they could use
some of the parts. I don't know if they ever did.

Best wishes,

[Paul]

Post by Wolf K
You could run a Linux from the CD/DVD drive, which would IMO would merely
confirm that the HDD is bad.

Booting a Linux LiveCD confirms it's a computer
and that it mostly works.

The speed with which it boots, is also a testament to
the performance level.

The fact it's got an InsydeH2O BIOS tells me it's
a relatively new machine (it would be about the same
as my [gifted] laptop from a relative), and mine runs
fine with Win7 or Win10 on it.

Once the machine boots with a DVD like that, a machine
of that vintage can also boot from a USB stick. The current
generation of DVDs for Linux, you can "dd" them right onto
a USB stick and boot from it. USB sticks boot faster than
DVDs, because there is little (1 millisecond) seek time,
compared to 110 milliseconds to move the heads on a DVD
drive.

The purpose of booting the first time with a DVD, is just
to see everything works well enough to boot. But you can
also easily download a Linux ISO and use "dd" to transfer
it to a USB stick. And skip the DVD stage altogether.

The downloads might be on the order of 1.5GB or so.
You can use the public library Internet to download, if
your home Internet isn't suited to this.

http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/linuxmint/stable/17.1/linuxmint-17.1-xfce-32bit.iso

This is a port of "dd" for Windows, called dd.exe .

http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

On your working computer (where you will be downloading and preparing a USB stick),
you run commands like this from an Administrator (elevated) Command Prompt window.

cd /d %userprofile%\Downloads

dir dd.exe linuxmint-17.1-xfce-32bit.iso <=== prove the files are where they're
supposed to be. The commands won't
run unless you can see the files now.

dd --list <=== this dumps names for the drives on the system
<=== the order is the same order as Disk Management
<=== do *not* issue the next command unless you
are sure you understand where the USB stick is
in the namespace. The Harddisk2 in the next command
is an example, and might not be what yours needs.
"dd" could ruin the OS drive, if "mis-aimed".
"dd" is *destructive*, use with care.

dd if=linuxmint-17.1-xfce-32bit.iso of=\\?\Device\Harddisk2\Partition0

This technique works for any modern Linux distro that offers
what are called "hybrid discs". The ISO image has more than
one file system overlaid, and also has multiple partitions,
which support both legacy BIOS and UEFI BIOS booting.

Since the laptop is relatively modern, it's likely to have
enough RAM to boot Linux. Older machines, we'd have to be a
lot more careful. When I booted up a TUV4X here, with an S370
socket processor in it, I had to put the max possible RAM in it
(3x512MB) to make lots of room to run a browser and so on :-)

In terms of speed, there isn't too much difference between Linux
and Windows. And part of this is due to ancient video hardware
in the machines, not providing the "acceleration" the desktop
needs. The software then "leans on the CPU" to make up the
difference. The root cause, is the assumption that all computers
have good graphics. Then when modern OSes run on crummy graphics,
they end up a lot slower because of this "bad assumption".

Summary : the above is some fun you can have with an old
computer you'd otherwise just dump in the garbage...
You'll need a USB stick, at least 4GB in size, to hold
the relatively small ISO file, if you want to boot from USB.
Walmart usually has 32GB sticks for around $20 or so, if you
don't have a pile of USB sticks sitting around for this.
This style of usage, doesn't allow that particular USB stick,
to be used to store other (random) files. The stick must be
erased before being reused for other purposes (dd can erase
it too, by writing zeros over part of it).

*******

When Linux is running, you can use "smartmontools" to list the
health info for the hard drive.

sudo smartctl -a /dev/sdc

ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE
5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 092 092 036 Pre-fail Always - 334

Normally, the value of that one is 0, but my sample disk is a bit sick,
and the life has dropped from 100 to 92. The drive is "dead" if
the value field hits 36 (same as Threshold). It won't really
be dead, but it'll be pretty damn slow. This shows the service
history of that sample disk, showing it's going bad, but it's
decided to go bad very slowly. My purpose in showing this table,
is to show how all the columns function as the errors grow.
Some drives use a normalized value of 200 instead of 100,
and they do that just to annoy people :-)

Current Worst Threshold Data Status
Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 36 0 OK \
Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 36 57 OK \___ These grew in
Reallocated Sector Count 98 98 36 104 OK / a couple days
Reallocated Sector Count 92 92 36 334 OK ----- Two years later...

The smartctl program doesn't offer a lot of editorial comments,
nor does it pass judgment as such (it'll say a sick drive is "OK").
Which is a shame, as end-users need advice, but it's also safer
for the developer to not "over-stretch" their area of expertise.
SMART isn't a wonderful system, but it's all we've got, when
figuring out if a hard drive is sick or not. It's better than
nothing. It's better than a coin toss. I stopped regularly
using that hard drive, when it hit 104 errors, but that
was because the error rate increase was looking pretty bad.

This is a picture of the that hard drive, in real life.

Loading Image...

Paul

[VanguardLH]

VanguardLH wrote ...

Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.

It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding.

Mentioned in another reply: remove the hard disk and see if the laptop
will boot. It should get to its POST screen and then report there is no
bootable media or OS not found. See if the *hardware* will boot up okay
BEFORE trying to troubleshoot why Windows won't start.

tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.

You went into the BIOS config screens. Looks like the laptop is
working. The problem is with Windows or the hard disk where it is
installed. Could be Windows is fouled. Could be you have a bad hard
drive. Insert the Windows install (or any other bootable disc) into the
CD drive, reboot, and select to boot from the CD drive. Does that work?

If saving what is on the hard disk is not critical (i.e., you're willing
to start fresh), boot the laptop and use its recovery option to restore
the laptop back to its factory-time state. See:

https://support.toshiba.com/sscontent?docId=98082971

Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?

At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB
It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."
So which one do I select? I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.

You are already past the POST screen and the BIOS is asking which device
you want to boot from. Windows is on the HDD. The list is the boot
order for the device types.

Post by VanguardLH
https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=2737864
A special-use partition is created on the HDD to perform the factory
default installation. It is either an image to lay back on the HDD or
an installer to perform a default install. If the laptop didn't come
with recovery CDs, the manual probably mentioned how to create them
after you received the prebuilt computer.

How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?

Step 4 is where you decide whether or not to perform a recovery (to lay
a factory image onto the hard drive).

[HB]

Post by VanguardLH

VanguardLH wrote ...

Post by VanguardLH
With the battery in, laptop won't boot. With the battery out, the
laptop boots. That how it appears you describe the problem. Did I get
your description wrong? If not, seems pretty simple diagnosis: it's the
battery.

It wont boot into windows either way. It turns on and will bring up text
windows/screens by tapping F keys. That may be the misunderstanding.

Mentioned in another reply: remove the hard disk and see if the laptop
will boot. It should get to its POST screen and then report there is no
bootable media or OS not found. See if the *hardware* will boot up okay
BEFORE trying to troubleshoot why Windows won't start.

tonight, afrer reinstalling the battery and HD, I hit F12 and a menu of some
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.

You went into the BIOS config screens. Looks like the laptop is
working. The problem is with Windows or the hard disk where it is
installed. Could be Windows is fouled. Could be you have a bad hard
drive. Insert the Windows install (or any other bootable disc) into the
CD drive, reboot, and select to boot from the CD drive. Does that work?
If saving what is on the hard disk is not critical (i.e., you're willing
to start fresh), boot the laptop and use its recovery option to restore
https://support.toshiba.com/sscontent?docId=98082971

Quote from step 4: "Press and hold down the 0 (zero) key on the keyboard
while powering on the computer/tablet. Release it when the recovery warning
screen appears."

Doing this brings no screen up, just causes a loud rapid beeping. So can't
get any further.

Post by VanguardLH

Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?

No.

Post by VanguardLH

At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB
It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."
So which one do I select? I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.

You are already past the POST screen and the BIOS is asking which device
you want to boot from. Windows is on the HDD. The list is the boot
order for the device types.

When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del
to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the
corner.

BTW, thought the battery was supposedly dead, not charging, the PC still
starts when unplugged. These screens appear and I can hear the HD come to
life. So I don't think that info was correct it was showing before going
dark. There is life in it.

Post by VanguardLH

Post by VanguardLH
https://support.toshiba.com/support/viewContentDetail?contentId=2737864
A special-use partition is created on the HDD to perform the factory
default installation. It is either an image to lay back on the HDD or
an installer to perform a default install. If the laptop didn't come
with recovery CDs, the manual probably mentioned how to create them
after you received the prebuilt computer.

How can I do anything useful with the info on this screen?

Step 4 is where you decide whether or not to perform a recovery (to lay
a factory image onto the hard drive).

Quote from step 4: "Press and hold down the 0 (zero) key on the keyboard
while powering on the computer/tablet. Release it when the recovery warning
screen appears."

Doing this brings no recovery screen up, just causes a loud rapid beeping.
So I can't get any further. I have no bootable emergency discs. They were
lost in the move. Maybe it doesn't matter because they didn't work on the 2
PCs I had in the past with this same problem. A PC gets turned on and all
that appeared would be a blank screen with the blinker. Now when I see this
blinker in the upper left hand corner, I feel it's most likely the death of
that PC.

[Wolf K]

On 2018-03-13 03:22, HB wrote:
[...]

Post by HB
When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del
to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the
corner.

[...]

I think that's definitive. There are two possibilities:

a) The Master Boot Record (MBR) is corrupted. (BIOS looks there to find
the location of the program that loads Windows.) If so, you can fix the
machine with a Windows 7 install/repair disk (DVD).

b) The HDD is broken. (The fact that it starts spinning doesn't mean
that it's working as it should.) If so, replace the HDD, and install Win7.

Best wishes.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by HB

VanguardLH wrote ...

[]

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?

No.

Don't worry: the option to restore to factory settings *from the BIOS
boot screen* isn't common. (I don't think _I_ have ever seen it, though
from what some have said here some Dells might have it - though as they
described it, that'd still need a working HD.)
[]

Post by HB
When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del

Does _sound_ like the HD isn't well. (Though _could_ still be boot
sector [part of the disc] corruption, which is fixable.)

Post by HB
to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the
corner.
BTW, thought the battery was supposedly dead, not charging, the PC still
starts when unplugged. These screens appear and I can hear the HD come to
life. So I don't think that info was correct it was showing before going
dark. There is life in it.

Good to know. And sorry, I didn't register what you said there: ignore
my **Q1** in my last post, as you've told us you can hear the HD spin
up. (As long as you're sure it was/is the HD not the fan, that is!)
[]

Post by HB
So I can't get any further. I have no bootable emergency discs. They were
lost in the move. Maybe it doesn't matter because they didn't work on the 2

Not having them isn't a _huge_ problem - you can _make_ them on the PC
you're talking to us on, assuming it has a suitable burner drive. They
might not be the exact right ones for the poorly PC, but we should be
able to get somewhere using them. BUT, since you can easily take out the
HD, diagnosing it on another PC (and possibly even repairing it there,
if the problem _is_ only file corruption) is probably an easier first
thing to do.

Post by HB
PCs I had in the past with this same problem. A PC gets turned on and all
that appeared would be a blank screen with the blinker. Now when I see this
blinker in the upper left hand corner, I feel it's most likely the death of
that PC.

We don't give up that easily (-:

[VanguardLH]

Post by HB
When I chose HDD I got this: "A disk read error occured. Press Ctrl+alt+Del
to restart." Did that and got the blank screen with the blinking - in the

Since you gave no mention of the model number, it is possible what I
happened to find doing a vague search does not apply to your particular
model. You need to get the model number and do searches on "toshiba
<model> recovery" to find articles that match on your model.

You seem unable to interpret the underside label on the laptop case.
Take a photo of it, upload to online storage, give a URL to that photo,
and let others see what model you have. Until then, I can only find
Toshiba instructions on some of their models saying how to perform a
recovery [re]install of the factory-time image onto the HDD.'

Did I miss where you removed the HDD and then determined how far the
laptop will boot? You could also record the boot sequence using your
smartphone (assuming you have one) or a digital camera (another
assumption) to upload it so we can see what is happening during the boot
sequence.

Also, you already found out how to get into the BIOS config screens.
From your description, it appears it came configured to show a splash
screen on boot. That gets in the way of seeing what is happening during
the boot sequence. Go into the BIOS to disable the splash screen. Then
you can see the POST screen and what shows up afterward. Again, with
the model number, there's no way to lookup what the boot sequence should
look like on your particular model.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <p87b11$1qp$***@dont-email.me>, HB <***@fake.com> writes:
[]

Post by HB
kind came up. There are 6 tabs. None give me the choice to get into Safe
Mode. It seems to only be info on what's on the PC such as memory size to
saving changes on exit. I have no idea what to do on any of these screens.
They're called Main, Security, Power management, Advanced,Boot and Exit.

That's the BIOS - loads from ROM, even if no HD is fitted or it's dead.

Post by HB
Under the screen is a strip with choices such as F5 & 6 Change values
(whatever they are). F9 Setup Defaults (meaningless to me.) How can this be
helpful - any ideas?

You move around the menus with the arrow keys. To change the value of
the parameter that is currently highlighted, you use F5/F6. F9 puts all
such values back to their default (_usually_ this means a set of values
which may not give the best performance the machine can achieve, but
which are likely to work in most circumstances; its main function is for
when the user thinks "I've changed something and the computer is now not
working/behaving erratically, but I can't remember what I've changed").

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH
Doesn't the laptop's own boot screen offer a choice to hit a special key
or key combo the restore the computer to factory-time setup?

I think the hard drive would have to be working - and able to boot - to
get to that option. Not necessarily, but usually.

Post by HB
At the very top it says, "InsydeH20 Setup Utility."
The Boot tab is mostly techie speak so I have no idea what to do with this.
HDD/SD
FDD
CD/DVD
LAN
USB
It says "Select the priority for booting the computer."

By fiddling with the keys, you can usually change the order of that list
(there might be a "move up/move down" key pair); it determines where the
computer looks for something bootable. The only ones you're likely to be
able to use are HDD, CD, and USB.

Post by HB
So which one do I select? I don't have a CD or DVD for this laptop. None was
given to me with the computer.

I presume it does have a CD _drive_ though.
[]

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH

Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.

I sympathise. I hate to give up on a machine - often to well beyond its
worth, if I were to put a price on my time. I just don't like scrapping
things. (I certainly don't smash them up.)

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH

Post by HB
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.

Some laptops won't run without a main battery installed. However, if
the main battery is dead, the laptop may not come up even when the
laptop's power adapter is plugged into A/C power. I'm not sure how the
circuitry is designed but I have seen some where the battery was used as
a capacitor in the power logic. If voltage regulation relies on a

I don't think those are common now though.

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH
working main battery, try removing it. How old is the battery? Sounds
like it is too old and you need to replace it.

I don't _think_ your fault _is_ the battery, but _have_ you yet tried
booting it with the external power connected and the battery physically
removed? It's an easy thing to try.

Post by HB
It's the original battery. Was in the LT when relative gave it to me. BTW,
all it says on the Toshiba is Satalite. It's 64-bit.

Post by VanguardLH
F8 brings up the boot menu, not necessarily Windows safe mode. Once in

But even that boot menu is part of Windows, or at least part of what is
loaded from disc. Other options are other keys depending on model, and
_are_ part of the machine - the BIOS. (A long time ago, it was almost
always the delete key; then often one of the F keys. When I wanted to
change boot order recently on this Toshiba Protégé [to make an image], I
tried lots, and eventually had to download the manual, which told me it
was F12 _while_ turning the power on.) I think your system is not
getting as far as booting from disc as far as the boot menu, though why
that is we haven't determined yet.
[]

Post by HB
That's what I'm familiar with. Never saw that window yesterday. I finally
got a screen asking to insert the original CD. None exists so I guess I'm
out of options.

If it got that far, that message came from something loaded from the HD,
so the HD is at least working some of the time. It also _sounds_ like
the problem might be entirely software, i. e. some important OS file has
or files have been corrrupted. The call for the original CD means it was
going to lead you through recovery, which, depending on what has been
corrupted, might still be achievable with _an_ install CD rather than
_the_ official one; you might still be able to download one totally
appropriate to your machine, or more likely I'm sure you can get hold of
one (either by download or other means - even borrowing one) that would
_work_ even if not a total match.

Post by HB

Post by VanguardLH
However, that boot menu is presented by the kernel loader of Windows.
When you see the Advanced Options boot menu, you're already in Windows.
If Windows is corrupted, you might not get the F8 boot menu.

[]

Post by HB
The better half just said to remove the HD, give it a few good whacks with
the sledge hammer and dump them in the electronic recycle bin at the

Ouch. Don't give up yet.

Post by HB
dumpsters. I often take her advice. I appreciate everyone's time trying to
help.

I still think it's likely to be RAM, HD, or just corruption.

RAM - you were going to try reseating, cleaning, or ideally (but only
possible if there are more than one module) trying only one out of two.
If you want to _thouroughly_ check the RAM, it's easy, just takes time
(you don't have to be there though): if you download the best-known
test, which I think is called memtest86, it will actually fit on a
floppy (though as you are unlikely to have one can be put on a CD); this
is actually bootable from the floppy or CD, so will run without a hard
drive present at all: it is its own OS - it boots itself, then offers
you various tests on the RAM, which can run once or continuously; people
usually say run them for several hours or overnight. Since your fault
seems to be coming up fairly rapidly, I don't _think_ you'd need to do
_that_ thorough a test, though it might be worth doing more than the
minimum, as Windows may use the RAM in different ways.

Personally, I don't _think_ your RAM has "gone bad"; I've never had this
happen, though I certainly believe it can, and others here including
Paul have. I _have_ had them work loose, or get dirt in the contacts,
though.

HD: This is in some ways the most worrying possibility, as if it _is_
faulty, it's (especially from what you've described so far) likely to be
intermittent. Unless you're unlucky enough to have one of those laptops
where there isn't a cover over the HD, then take off the cover over the
HD, and listen - and perhaps feel - whether it's operating oddly (making
worrying noises, or vibrating oddly - or, sometimes not spinning up at
all). Difficult to tell by sound and feel, though, especially if you
haven't another machine to compare it to.

Depending on what you decide, and you may do the other things first,
other steps would be to take it out and connect it to another machine:
you're unlikely to have any other machine you can put it into as a
secondary drive (don't put it into a different machine as primary drive
and try to boot from it, that would likely corrupt things somewhat), so
that means either a desktop (best as you'd be going direct to the SATA),
or via some sort of USB interface. (Doesn't have to be a housing -
though the cheapest of those are cheaper than a "cable" or dock! - it
can be, indeed, a "cable" [these actually aren't just wires but have
electronics in them] or a dock.) _Ideally_, one with a separate power
supply, though housings may not have those. First, I'd then interrogate
the SMART data - that can be interrogated via a USB interface; there are
lots of utilities that will interrogate it (I use
https://www.passmark.com/products/diskcheckup.htm). Ideally, do it two
or more times, separated by a while, as you'll then see how things are
changing, if any are. (Several of the utilities, including the one I
use, will give you a predicted failure date if one of the important
parameters is worsening, though in a very simplistic manner as they just
use a straight-line prediction of when it'll fall below permissible -
I've had predicted dates like 2037! But it's useful to be able to see if
the parameters are changing.) You can also do assorted tests: how well
these will work through a USB link is variable, but they won't usually
do any _harm_. HDTune (if it works) will give (dropping) spikes; if
these are in the same place on two or more runs, they suggest a bad
patch. (Though if only one or two and they're narrow, that _can_ mean
there are faults, but they're being handled by the drive's own handling
mechanism, and can be lived with if they don't get worse. But keep an
eye on.)

Corruption: if it's just corruption of some important file, the main
concern is _how_ it happened: your description _implies_ you didn't shut
down improperly. However, increasingly with each version of Windows
(updates etc.) these can happen. Provided it's _not_ due to an
intermittent hardware fault, I suspect it can be restored no problem; at
worst (or perhaps one could say, least effort beyond a point), that
might involve reinstallation of Windows (though if it comes to that, use
the various utilities around to extract the product keys etc. first, if
you haven't got them), but I suspect, with the knowledge of those here,
that it needn't come to that. Use of the Recovery Console (from a CD if
necessary) would _probably_ suffice. [I said provided it's not due to
intermittent hardware; of course, even if it _is_, it should be
recoverable, but if that's the cause, it'll happen again.]

I _suspect_ the most likely fault, based on what you've described so
far, is corruption of one or more important files, followed by a loose
or dirty connection at the RAM or HD.

[VanguardLH]

VanguardLH wrote ...

Some laptops won't run without a [working] main battery installed.

I don't think those are common now though.

The OP isn't asking about recent hardware that is "common now". The OP
is asking about something that has sat in closet for many years while
its battery deteriorated and its CMOS battery died. Toshiba introduced
their Satellite family in the early 90's. As yet, we don't know what
model the OP has or its age.

If it got that far, that message came from something loaded from the HD,
so the HD is at least working some of the time. It also _sounds_ like
the problem might be entirely software, i. e. some important OS file has
or files have been corrrupted.

The HDD should be removable: open an access panel, remove a couple
screws (if used), and pull out the HDD. The laptop should boot to the
POST screen and then fail with a message saying the OS loader could not
be found. That would prove the laptop's hardware can do a cold boot.

[Patrick]

Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.

Does this look like the LapTop that you are refering to;

https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964

[HB]

Post by Patrick

Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.

Does this look like the LapTop that you are refering to;
https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964

This looks like it. Please see my reply to VanguardLH of 9:54 above.

[Patrick]

Post by HB

Post by Patrick

Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.

Does this look like the LapTop that you are refering to;
https://support.toshiba.com/support/modelHome?freeText=2743964

This looks like it. Please see my reply to VanguardLH of 9:54 above.

Does this possibly ring a bell? (I havn't been right through it myself yet);

https://www.justanswer.com/computer/486wm-apparently-toshiba-laptop-crashed-setup-utility.html

https://tinyurl.com/y9uku7nx

[tesla sTinker]

We set a topic for you to understand the computer bios. This is from
our laptop under the help menu in windows explorer.
BIOS: frequently asked questions

Here are answers to some common questions about basic input/output
system (BIOS).

What is BIOS?
BIOS is a program built into personal computers that starts the
operating system when you turn on your computer. It is also referred to
as system firmware. BIOS is part of your computer's hardware and is
separate from Windows.

Do I need to do anything with BIOS?
No, BIOS doesn't need to be managed and you don't need to change any
settings. Advanced users might choose to change certain settings, such
as the order the computer searches devices when starting.

What kind of BIOS does my computer have?
You can view general information about your computer's BIOS in System
Information.

Click to open System Information.

Click System Summary in the left pane, and then look under BIOS
Version/Date in the right pane to view the BIOS manufacturer, version
number, and the date the BIOS was released. For specific information
about the BIOS used by your computer, check the information that came
with your computer or go to the computer manufacturer's website.

How do CMOS and ACPI relate to BIOS?
Complementary metal oxide semiconductor (CMOS) refers to a chip inside
your computer that saves your BIOS settings. As a result, the terms CMOS
and BIOS are sometimes used interchangeably. For more information, see
What is CMOS?

Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) is an industry
standard that defines power management features and other configuration
information for computers. Some previous versions of BIOS don't support
ACPI, and so the computer might not successfully enter advanced power
modes such as sleep or hibernate. For more information, check the
information that came with your computer or go to the computer
manufacturer's website.

How do I access my computer's BIOS?
Procedures vary depending on the BIOS manufacturer. Usually, you must
press a key (such as F2, F12, Delete, or Esc) or a key combination
immediately after you turn on your computer before Windows starts. For
more information, check the information that came with your computer or
go to the computer manufacturer's website.

How do I update BIOS?
Procedures vary depending on the BIOS manufacturer. If you think you
need to update your BIOS, check the information that came with your
computer or go to the computer manufacturer's website.

Warning
Be careful when changing BIOS settings. The BIOS interface is designed
for advanced users, and it's possible to change a setting that could
prevent your computer from starting correctly.

Updating BIOS should only be done if necessary (to solve a compatibility
problem, for example). It can be a complicated process, and if an error
occurs, your computer could be rendered inoperable. Be sure to follow
the manufacturer's instructions exactly.

Post by HB
When it rains it pours. The Toshiba LP W-7 64 went dark. It was fine, was
shut off and when I hit the On button a few days later, just a black screen
with a blinking " - " in the upper left-hand corner. Tapping the F8 is
supposed to bring up Safe Mode (as per Google) but instead up came a screen
to do a memory scan. After it finished I tried again and it came up with 6
tabs of technical info that's alien to me. None of the tabs were for Safe
Mode. I had no way to know what to do on any of the screens. Anyone know how
to get Safe Mode to come up on a Toshiba W-7?
Where do I go from here? The LP actually gets little use and is like new. I
hate to recycle it.
I noticed a few days before that the battery wasn't charging. Since it was
almost always used plugged in, it didn't matter.