Endangered species: US programmers. Outsourcing takes its toll.

[Harry Hope]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=711&e=10&u=/usatoday/20041014/tc_usatoday/endangeredspeciesusprogrammers

Endangered species: US programmers

Thu Oct 14, 7:32 AM ET

By David R. Francis, The Christian Science Monitor

Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Once the symbols of hope as the nation shifted from manufacturing to
service jobs, programmers today are an endangered species.

They face a challenge similar to that which shrank the ranks of
steelworkers and autoworkers a quarter century ago: competition from
foreigners.

Some experts think they'll become extinct within the next few years,
forced into unemployment or new careers by a combination of offshoring
of their work to India and other low-wage countries and the arrival of
skilled immigrants taking their jobs.

Not everybody agrees programmers will disappear completely.

But even the optimists believe that many basic programming jobs will
go to foreign nations, leaving behind jobs for Americans to lead and
manage software projects.

The evidence is already mounting that many computer jobs are
endangered, prompting concern about the future of the nation's
high-tech industries.

____________________________________________________________

Harry

[CJT]

Here's another:

http://www.computerworld.com/managementtopics/outsourcing/story/0,10801,96696,00.html?nas=AM-96696

[BlackWater]

Post by Harry Hope
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=711&e=10&u=/usatoday/20041014/tc_usatoday/endangeredspeciesusprogrammers
Endangered species: US programmers
Thu Oct 14, 7:32 AM ET
By David R. Francis, The Christian Science Monitor
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.
Once the symbols of hope as the nation shifted from manufacturing to
service jobs, programmers today are an endangered species.
They face a challenge similar to that which shrank the ranks of
steelworkers and autoworkers a quarter century ago: competition from
foreigners.
Some experts think they'll become extinct within the next few years,
forced into unemployment or new careers by a combination of offshoring
of their work to India and other low-wage countries and the arrival of
skilled immigrants taking their jobs.
Not everybody agrees programmers will disappear completely.
But even the optimists believe that many basic programming jobs will
go to foreign nations, leaving behind jobs for Americans to lead and
manage software projects.
The evidence is already mounting that many computer jobs are
endangered, prompting concern about the future of the nation's
high-tech industries.

The embarassing part is that programmers never WERE paid
all that much for their efforts.

Oh well, American programmers will have to go into "niche"
programming ... specialty stuff and on-site work that's
not easily or economically exportable.

[Alfred Einstead]

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

[Bob]

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

I guess I don't need to go to work Monday then. The only thing that
sounds deskilled is you.

[BlackWater]

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Gee ... I was doing some assembly-language programming
just the other day. Microcontrollers dontchaknow. Guess
I'll still have a job tomorrow. Admittedly though, there's
only just SO much hard-core programming left in the Winders
universe. Modern compilers practically write the code for
you ... all you've gotta do is arrange the bits in the
right order. The 'visual' languages ... well ... many
people won't even LOOK at the 'bits', simply build-up
screens and let the compiler figure out how to do it.
Alas, if the feature they want isn't in one of the
pre-fab cbeckboxes, they won't know how to add it
themselves. Still call themselves 'programmers' though.

Still, somebody, somewhere has to make those compilers
'smart' ... and that's still hard-core programming.
Americans are lazy, Indians are apparently ambitious.

[Jingo]

Post by BlackWater

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Gee ... I was doing some assembly-language programming
just the other day. Microcontrollers dontchaknow. Guess
I'll still have a job tomorrow. Admittedly though, there's
only just SO much hard-core programming left in the Winders
universe. Modern compilers practically write the code for
you ... all you've gotta do is arrange the bits in the
right order. The 'visual' languages ... well ... many
people won't even LOOK at the 'bits', simply build-up
screens and let the compiler figure out how to do it.
Alas, if the feature they want isn't in one of the
pre-fab cbeckboxes, they won't know how to add it
themselves. Still call themselves 'programmers' though.
Still, somebody, somewhere has to make those compilers
'smart' ... and that's still hard-core programming.
Americans are lazy, Indians are apparently ambitious.

Just wait until Backwater's job is given to some guy in India.

He will suddenly change his tune on this issue.

Or maybe he will just take a 75% cut in pay and move to Bombay.

Jingo

***
"After standing on the stage, after the debates, I made it very plain we will not have an all-volunteer army"


--George "Freudian Slip" Bush, Daytona Beach, Florida, October 16, 2004
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1506&u=/afp/20041016/ts_alt_afp/us_vote_bush_draft&printer=1

[BlackWater]

Post by Jingo

Post by BlackWater

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Gee ... I was doing some assembly-language programming
just the other day. Microcontrollers dontchaknow. Guess
I'll still have a job tomorrow. Admittedly though, there's
only just SO much hard-core programming left in the Winders
universe. Modern compilers practically write the code for
you ... all you've gotta do is arrange the bits in the
right order. The 'visual' languages ... well ... many
people won't even LOOK at the 'bits', simply build-up
screens and let the compiler figure out how to do it.
Alas, if the feature they want isn't in one of the
pre-fab cbeckboxes, they won't know how to add it
themselves. Still call themselves 'programmers' though.
Still, somebody, somewhere has to make those compilers
'smart' ... and that's still hard-core programming.
Americans are lazy, Indians are apparently ambitious.

Just wait until Backwater's job is given to some guy in India.
He will suddenly change his tune on this issue.

Nah ... there are plenty of 'niche' jobs and always
will be. You can't do *everything* from India, there's
always a need for some hands-on help. Fortunately I
know some electronics too - and somebody always wants
to build some one-off custom device to fit their
special need. Then there's maintaining/porting legacy
software ... hard to find anyone who's even SEEN a
COBOL or FORTRAN program these days.

But as for the poor suckers who write nothing but
accounting programs or think 'programming' means
clicking some checkboxes in MS Access ... they're
doomed. Rats, roaches and scavengers like me on
the other hand ...

Post by Jingo
Or maybe he will just take a 75% cut in pay and move to Bombay.

Cheap beer & hookers from what I've heard :-)

[Michael Ejercito]

Post by BlackWater

Post by Jingo

Post by BlackWater

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Gee ... I was doing some assembly-language programming
just the other day. Microcontrollers dontchaknow. Guess
I'll still have a job tomorrow. Admittedly though, there's
only just SO much hard-core programming left in the Winders
universe. Modern compilers practically write the code for
you ... all you've gotta do is arrange the bits in the
right order. The 'visual' languages ... well ... many
people won't even LOOK at the 'bits', simply build-up
screens and let the compiler figure out how to do it.
Alas, if the feature they want isn't in one of the
pre-fab cbeckboxes, they won't know how to add it
themselves. Still call themselves 'programmers' though.
Still, somebody, somewhere has to make those compilers
'smart' ... and that's still hard-core programming.
Americans are lazy, Indians are apparently ambitious.

Just wait until Backwater's job is given to some guy in India.
He will suddenly change his tune on this issue.

Nah ... there are plenty of 'niche' jobs and always
will be. You can't do *everything* from India, there's
always a need for some hands-on help. Fortunately I
know some electronics too - and somebody always wants
to build some one-off custom device to fit their
special need. Then there's maintaining/porting legacy
software ... hard to find anyone who's even SEEN a
COBOL or FORTRAN program these days.

I am currently a loan officer for a mortage company. There is no
practical method of outsourcing MY job.


Michael

[BlackWater]

Post by Michael Ejercito

Post by BlackWater

Post by Jingo

Post by BlackWater

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Gee ... I was doing some assembly-language programming
just the other day. Microcontrollers dontchaknow. Guess
I'll still have a job tomorrow. Admittedly though, there's
only just SO much hard-core programming left in the Winders
universe. Modern compilers practically write the code for
you ... all you've gotta do is arrange the bits in the
right order. The 'visual' languages ... well ... many
people won't even LOOK at the 'bits', simply build-up
screens and let the compiler figure out how to do it.
Alas, if the feature they want isn't in one of the
pre-fab cbeckboxes, they won't know how to add it
themselves. Still call themselves 'programmers' though.
Still, somebody, somewhere has to make those compilers
'smart' ... and that's still hard-core programming.
Americans are lazy, Indians are apparently ambitious.

Just wait until Backwater's job is given to some guy in India.
He will suddenly change his tune on this issue.

Nah ... there are plenty of 'niche' jobs and always
will be. You can't do *everything* from India, there's
always a need for some hands-on help. Fortunately I
know some electronics too - and somebody always wants
to build some one-off custom device to fit their
special need. Then there's maintaining/porting legacy
software ... hard to find anyone who's even SEEN a
COBOL or FORTRAN program these days.

I am currently a loan officer for a mortage company. There is no
practical method of outsourcing MY job.

Wouldn't hurt to do subtle things to make sure
it *remains* unexportable dontchaknow :-)

Actually, I suppose someone could do that job
via telepresence from India ... maybe even put
on a false 'western' face as so not to upset
the victims ... er, customers. Just wait 'till
3-D projectors are perfected !

For that matter, why do we NEED 'loan officers' ?
Just have 'em fill-out an online form and the boys
in Bangalore will decide whether to give 'em the
loan - until they're replaced with quasi-
'intelligent' programs that can smell a bad risk
from 12,000 miles away that is. Hey, maybe the
have this already ... 'Ditech.com' ?

[Michael Ejercito]

Post by BlackWater

Post by Michael Ejercito

Post by BlackWater

Post by Jingo

Post by BlackWater

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Gee ... I was doing some assembly-language programming
just the other day. Microcontrollers dontchaknow. Guess
I'll still have a job tomorrow. Admittedly though, there's
only just SO much hard-core programming left in the Winders
universe. Modern compilers practically write the code for
you ... all you've gotta do is arrange the bits in the
right order. The 'visual' languages ... well ... many
people won't even LOOK at the 'bits', simply build-up
screens and let the compiler figure out how to do it.
Alas, if the feature they want isn't in one of the
pre-fab cbeckboxes, they won't know how to add it
themselves. Still call themselves 'programmers' though.
Still, somebody, somewhere has to make those compilers
'smart' ... and that's still hard-core programming.
Americans are lazy, Indians are apparently ambitious.

Just wait until Backwater's job is given to some guy in India.
He will suddenly change his tune on this issue.

Nah ... there are plenty of 'niche' jobs and always
will be. You can't do *everything* from India, there's
always a need for some hands-on help. Fortunately I
know some electronics too - and somebody always wants
to build some one-off custom device to fit their
special need. Then there's maintaining/porting legacy
software ... hard to find anyone who's even SEEN a
COBOL or FORTRAN program these days.

I am currently a loan officer for a mortage company. There is no
practical method of outsourcing MY job.

Wouldn't hurt to do subtle things to make sure
it *remains* unexportable dontchaknow :-)
Actually, I suppose someone could do that job
via telepresence from India ... maybe even put
on a false 'western' face as so not to upset
the victims ... er, customers. Just wait 'till
3-D projectors are perfected !

That would depend on interest rates in foreign countries.


Michael

[SPQR]

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Right.

And Real Men use DOS.
SPQR
<<<<

[BlackWater]

Post by SPQR

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Right.
And Real Men use DOS.

CP/M ... DOS was just a cheap rip-off.

[Ashland Henderson]

Post by BlackWater

Post by SPQR

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Right.
And Real Men use DOS.

CP/M ... DOS was just a cheap rip-off.

Real Men did their programming on IBM 3270 terminals. Of course
when I was doing that the old-timers used to say that real men used
plugboards.

[Jingo]

Post by Ashland Henderson

Post by BlackWater

Post by SPQR

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Right.
And Real Men use DOS.

CP/M ... DOS was just a cheap rip-off.

Real Men did their programming on IBM 3270 terminals. Of course
when I was doing that the old-timers used to say that real men used
plugboards.

Entering data on an IBM 026 keypunch machine.

Jingo

***
"Let's be realistic. Politicians, news people, clergy all have images and all depend on the trust of the public to
succeed. ... You do something like (Bosley), although it's not illegal, it embarrasses your employer because your
employer operates on credibility."

-- Bill "Long Dong Vibrator" O'Reilly supporting the firing of a reporter
for taking part in a wet T-shirt contest while on vacation.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/columnist/mediamix/2004-10-17-media-mix_x.htm


"During the course of O'Reilley's telephone monologues on August 2, 2004, he suggested that PLANTIFF Andrea Mackris
purchase a vibrator and name it, and that he had one "shaped like a cock with a little battery in it" that a woman
had given him. It became apparent that DEFENDANT was mastrubating as he spoke.

--Suit filed October 13, 2004
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1013043mackris14.html


"O'Reilly should have called me. I would have given him phone sex for a lot less than $60 million"

--Porn star Savanna Samson, who had recently appeared on the O'Reily Factor
http://www.nypost.com/gossip/pagesix_u.htm

[BlackWater]

Post by Jingo

Post by Ashland Henderson

Post by BlackWater

Post by SPQR

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Right.
And Real Men use DOS.

CP/M ... DOS was just a cheap rip-off.

Real Men did their programming on IBM 3270 terminals. Of course
when I was doing that the old-timers used to say that real men used
plugboards.

Entering data on an IBM 026 keypunch machine.

What seperated the men from the boys was what you
did AFTER you tripped and dropped your whole deck
of cards ...

[Ashland Henderson]

Post by BlackWater

Post by Jingo

Post by Ashland Henderson

Post by BlackWater

Post by SPQR

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Right.
And Real Men use DOS.

CP/M ... DOS was just a cheap rip-off.

Real Men did their programming on IBM 3270 terminals. Of course
when I was doing that the old-timers used to say that real men used
plugboards.

Entering data on an IBM 026 keypunch machine.

What seperated the men from the boys was what you
did AFTER you tripped and dropped your whole deck
of cards ...

Indeed. I remember some of those days.

[Thinker2004]

Post by Ashland Henderson

Post by BlackWater

Post by SPQR

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Right.
And Real Men use DOS.

CP/M ... DOS was just a cheap rip-off.

Real Men did their programming on IBM 3270 terminals. Of course
when I was doing that the old-timers used to say that real men used
plugboards.

I thought real men used an abacus?

- Thinker

[Jingo]

Post by BlackWater

Post by SPQR

Post by Alfred Einstead

Post by Harry Hope
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.

Actually: say goodbye to programming, period. It's an obsolete
and profession, already undergone massive deskilling to the point
of rendering it little more than a clerical job or a modern-day
analogue of the chimney sweep. Real programming hasn't existed
and real programmers haven't existed since assembly language was
de jure, as God intended programming to be.

Right.
And Real Men use DOS.

CP/M ... DOS was just a cheap rip-off.

Real men program in assembly language.

On 80 column cards.

Jingo

***
"Let's be realistic. Politicians, news people, clergy all have images and all depend on the trust of the public to
succeed. ... You do something like (Bosley), although it's not illegal, it embarrasses your employer because your
employer operates on credibility."

-- Bill "Long Dong Vibrator" O'Reilly supporting the firing of a reporter
for taking part in a wet T-shirt contest while on vacation.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/columnist/mediamix/2004-10-17-media-mix_x.htm


"During the course of O'Reilley's telephone monologues on August 2, 2004, he suggested that PLANTIFF Andrea Mackris
purchase a vibrator and name it, and that he had one "shaped like a cock with a little battery in it" that a woman
had given him. It became apparent that DEFENDANT was mastrubating as he spoke.

--Suit filed October 13, 2004
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1013043mackris14.html


"O'Reilly should have called me. I would have given him phone sex for a lot less than $60 million"

--Porn star Savanna Samson, who had recently appeared on the O'Reily Factor
http://www.nypost.com/gossip/pagesix_u.htm

[Thinker2004]

Post by Harry Hope
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=711&e=10&u=/usatoday/20041014/tc_usatoday/endangeredspeciesusprogrammers
Endangered species: US programmers
Thu Oct 14, 7:32 AM ET
By David R. Francis, The Christian Science Monitor
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.
Once the symbols of hope as the nation shifted from manufacturing to
service jobs, programmers today are an endangered species.
They face a challenge similar to that which shrank the ranks of
steelworkers and autoworkers a quarter century ago: competition from
foreigners.
Some experts think they'll become extinct within the next few years,
forced into unemployment or new careers by a combination of offshoring
of their work to India and other low-wage countries and the arrival of
skilled immigrants taking their jobs.
Not everybody agrees programmers will disappear completely.
But even the optimists believe that many basic programming jobs will
go to foreign nations, leaving behind jobs for Americans to lead and
manage software projects.
The evidence is already mounting that many computer jobs are
endangered, prompting concern about the future of the nation's
high-tech industries.
____________________________________________________________
Harry

Bullshit, Harry. This is EXACTLY why I can not stand you lefties.
With your "oh the sky is falling" bullshit. I am a programmer.
My pay has more than doubled in the last 4 years. You know why?
Because I am exceptional at what I do. Because I have done the
hard work all my life. Because I don't believe it is the job of
the government to make me successful. Because I don't need some
stinking union to forcibly keep me employed.

My job is going nowhere. If other's can't keep their jobs, well
then they didn't deserve them in the first place. And I am not
concerned for them.

- Thinker

[d***@msn.com]

Post by Thinker2004
Bullshit, Harry. This is EXACTLY why I can not stand you lefties.
With your "oh the sky is falling" bullshit. I am a programmer.
My pay has more than doubled in the last 4 years...Blah, blah snip, snip...
My job is going nowhere. If other's can't keep their jobs, well
then they didn't deserve them in the first place. And I am not
concerned for them.
- Thinker

So much for another "Compassionate Conservative"

Doer

[Thinker2004]

Post by d***@msn.com

Post by Thinker2004
Bullshit, Harry. This is EXACTLY why I can not stand you lefties.
With your "oh the sky is falling" bullshit. I am a programmer.
My pay has more than doubled in the last 4 years...Blah, blah snip, snip...
My job is going nowhere. If other's can't keep their jobs, well
then they didn't deserve them in the first place. And I am not
concerned for them.
- Thinker

So much for another "Compassionate Conservative"
Doer

What? Like any true Republican I want other's to be successful too.
I just won't endorse any system which attempts to make it someone
else's responsibility to do it for them. YOU reap what YOU sow.
If someone doesn't do what is required to succeed, then I have no
empathy for them. There is a world of difference between
compassionate and sucker.

- Thinker

[d***@msn.com]

Post by Thinker2004
What? Like any true Republican I want other's to be successful too.
I just won't endorse any system which attempts to make it someone
else's responsibility to do it for them. YOU reap what YOU sow.
If someone doesn't do what is required to succeed, then I have no
empathy for them. There is a world of difference between
compassionate and sucker.
- Thinker

You're funny! "true Republican"???? Using those two words in the same
sentence is a big fat stretch. It's kind of like "compassionate
conservative," an oxymoron if I ever saw one. You "want others to be
successful too?"
You want that enough to fund "No child left behind"??? Dubya didn't.
Should I go on?

"You reap what you sow"??? How about this: "You reap what Dubya
sows" i.e. war, 1200 dead Americans, international bad will, fat cat
elitists who enjoy thousands more $$$ in their pockets while the
single working mother gets an average of 2 bucks a week more than she
did before the tax cut. That's a fact, pal.

Don't bore me any more with those accolades about "reaping what you
sow." Just admit what you you are and what drive$ you. Maybe you'd
be a good used car salesman or lobbyist.

Doer

[BlackWater]

Post by d***@msn.com

Post by Thinker2004
What? Like any true Republican I want other's to be successful too.
I just won't endorse any system which attempts to make it someone
else's responsibility to do it for them. YOU reap what YOU sow.
If someone doesn't do what is required to succeed, then I have no
empathy for them. There is a world of difference between
compassionate and sucker.
- Thinker

You're funny! "true Republican"???? Using those two words in the same
sentence is a big fat stretch. It's kind of like "compassionate
conservative," an oxymoron if I ever saw one.

'Conservatives' really shouldn't be "conpassionate" - they should
equate efforts with results. Work and succeed, lie-around and fail.

Post by d***@msn.com
You "want others to be successful too?"

No - I want them to fail so that I can get their share
of the pie.

Post by d***@msn.com
You want that enough to fund "No child left behind"??? Dubya didn't.
Should I go on?

At least he HAS an education program ... what the Dems had all
these years, well, it definitely wasn't an "education" program.

Post by d***@msn.com
"You reap what you sow"??? How about this: "You reap what Dubya
sows" i.e. war, 1200 dead Americans

1200 ??? That's about the number killed in the first ten seconds
of the Normandy invasion. Getting things done is difficult and
expensive - "W"s initiatives have come, so far, at a discount
price.

Post by d***@msn.com
international bad will,

Screw 'em.

Post by d***@msn.com
fat cat elitists who enjoy thousands more $$$ in their pockets while the
single working mother gets an average of 2 bucks a week more than she
did before the tax cut.

Ah ... you mean John Heinz Kerry ! Rich, elitist as hell.

[Name Redacted]

Post by Thinker2004

Post by Harry Hope
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=711&e=10&u=/usatoday/20041014/tc_usatoday/endangeredspeciesusprogrammers
Endangered species: US programmers
Thu Oct 14, 7:32 AM ET
By David R. Francis, The Christian Science Monitor
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.
Once the symbols of hope as the nation shifted from manufacturing to
service jobs, programmers today are an endangered species.
They face a challenge similar to that which shrank the ranks of
steelworkers and autoworkers a quarter century ago: competition from
foreigners.
Some experts think they'll become extinct within the next few years,
forced into unemployment or new careers by a combination of offshoring
of their work to India and other low-wage countries and the arrival of
skilled immigrants taking their jobs.
Not everybody agrees programmers will disappear completely.
But even the optimists believe that many basic programming jobs will
go to foreign nations, leaving behind jobs for Americans to lead and
manage software projects.
The evidence is already mounting that many computer jobs are
endangered, prompting concern about the future of the nation's
high-tech industries.
____________________________________________________________
Harry

Bullshit, Harry. This is EXACTLY why I can not stand you lefties.
With your "oh the sky is falling" bullshit. I am a programmer.
My pay has more than doubled in the last 4 years. You know why?
Because I am exceptional at what I do. Because I have done the
hard work all my life. Because I don't believe it is the job of
the government to make me successful. Because I don't need some
stinking union to forcibly keep me employed.
My job is going nowhere. If other's can't keep their jobs, well
then they didn't deserve them in the first place. And I am not
concerned for them.

Of course, you'll whine the loudest when it's your turn. I would
expect it rather soon because your commentary smells of a
self-righteous jerk who probably kisses butt to keep his job.

Btw, a freudian slip there? "My job is going nowhere"! No
chance to advance?

I've been in programming too. And met too many like you in
the business. Your products suck and no one wants to work
with you because you're never wrong.

Post by Thinker2004
- Thinker

[Thinker2004]

Post by Name Redacted

Post by Thinker2004

Post by Harry Hope
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=711&e=10&u=/usatoday/20041014/tc_usatoday/endangeredspeciesusprogrammers
Endangered species: US programmers
Thu Oct 14, 7:32 AM ET
By David R. Francis, The Christian Science Monitor
Say goodbye to the American software programmer.
Once the symbols of hope as the nation shifted from manufacturing to
service jobs, programmers today are an endangered species.
They face a challenge similar to that which shrank the ranks of
steelworkers and autoworkers a quarter century ago: competition from
foreigners.
Some experts think they'll become extinct within the next few years,
forced into unemployment or new careers by a combination of offshoring
of their work to India and other low-wage countries and the arrival of
skilled immigrants taking their jobs.
Not everybody agrees programmers will disappear completely.
But even the optimists believe that many basic programming jobs will
go to foreign nations, leaving behind jobs for Americans to lead and
manage software projects.
The evidence is already mounting that many computer jobs are
endangered, prompting concern about the future of the nation's
high-tech industries.
____________________________________________________________
Harry

Bullshit, Harry. This is EXACTLY why I can not stand you lefties.
With your "oh the sky is falling" bullshit. I am a programmer.
My pay has more than doubled in the last 4 years. You know why?
Because I am exceptional at what I do. Because I have done the
hard work all my life. Because I don't believe it is the job of
the government to make me successful. Because I don't need some
stinking union to forcibly keep me employed.
My job is going nowhere. If other's can't keep their jobs, well
then they didn't deserve them in the first place. And I am not
concerned for them.

Of course, you'll whine the loudest when it's your turn. I would

I don't whine. I leave that the pros, you lefties.

Post by Name Redacted
expect it rather soon because your commentary smells of a
self-righteous jerk who probably kisses butt to keep his job.

Outside of my professional career, my personal work has been cited
by university professors around the globe on many occasions.
I've even been recommended reading at universities. But to cite that work
here would be to sacrifice my anonymity. So I think my career is
safe, thanks for your concern.

Post by Name Redacted
Btw, a freudian slip there? "My job is going nowhere"! No
chance to advance?

Please. You have nothing better than this?

Post by Name Redacted
I've been in programming too. And met too many like you in
the business. Your products suck and no one wants to work

Huh? You've seen my 'products'? You know who wants not to work
with me? I don't think so.

Post by Name Redacted
with you because you're never wrong.

I've never claimed that.

- Thinker

Post by Name Redacted

Post by Thinker2004
- Thinker