Discussion:
[tor dot com] Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
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James Nicoll
2020-03-30 14:11:21 UTC
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Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-03-30 14:46:40 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
A favorite of mine since it launched. I once saw a line drawing
of the Id Monster, in which you could get a good look at it. It
had the face of a ferocious ape, but its body was, I assume,
Krellish--chunky, almost spherical (explaining that pentagonal
doorway shape), and having no limbs but those two clawed feet.
No wonder the Krell had taken so long to rise from their primitive
origins, and no wonder they longed for an instrumentality governed
by the mind alone. They hadn't anything resembling hands.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Kevrob
2020-03-30 15:23:10 UTC
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Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
A favorite of mine since it launched. I once saw a line drawing
of the Id Monster, in which you could get a good look at it. It
had the face of a ferocious ape, but its body was, I assume,
Krellish--chunky, almost spherical (explaining that pentagonal
doorway shape), and having no limbs but those two clawed feet.
No wonder the Krell had taken so long to rise from their primitive
origins, and no wonder they longed for an instrumentality governed
by the mind alone. They hadn't anything resembling hands.
I used to room with some good friends, all fans, except for
the occasional live-in girlfriend, who would face some
serious socialization into fandom, if only by osmosis. One
fellow fell for a cute brunette in the next apartment bldg,
and she eventually moved in. They later married. When she
needed to clip the nails on her feet, the expression "Krell
toes" had to be explained to her.

In a RL "tvtropes" manner, the flat was often a "5-man
band," with 1 guy in each of the 4 bedrooms, one of which
was shared with "the chick."

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveManBand

Kevin R
Johnny1A
2020-03-31 05:11:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
A favorite of mine since it launched.
I consider _Forbidden Planet_, overall, the best SF movie ever made. Not perfect, but I place it at #1 overall.

Some little things: Adams and Doc carry communicators with _video_ links, at one point they use the video pickup to show the crew back on the ship that they're not speaking under duress. The Federation might take note for their communicators. At another point, Doc uses the communicator to queary a database of personnel from the destroyed _Bellerophon_. He's basically carrying a smartphone.


I once saw a line drawing
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
of the Id Monster, in which you could get a good look at it. It
had the face of a ferocious ape, but its body was, I assume,
Krellish--chunky, almost spherical (explaining that pentagonal
doorway shape), and having no limbs but those two clawed feet.
No wonder the Krell had taken so long to rise from their primitive
origins, and no wonder they longed for an instrumentality governed
by the mind alone. They hadn't anything resembling hands.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
I don't think the Id Monster resembled a Krel. I don't know that Morbius had any idea what a Krel might look like.

There's a neat scene at one point where Adams and Doc are examining a plaster cast Doc made of the Id Monster's footprints. Individual components of the foot are recognizable, IIRC Doc says one part of it looks like it might be from some impossibly huge tree sloth, another bit from a different terrestrial animal adapted to a different environment, but as a mishmash they make no sense.

Of course they _are_ a mishmash, Morbius' subconscious mind put the Id Monster together out of bits and pieces of all kinds of creatures, teeth, claws, etc., and the Krel Machine gave it being. But it's mishmash, overall, probably mostly of Terran creatures, because that's what Morbius knows.
Jack Bohn
2020-03-30 16:41:48 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
As much of a fan as Robbie as I am, I can see that it was inevitable that he [1] was going to be typecast. I don't think any other film of the '60s could have used him, and you can see the pitfalls in writing a movie around him in "The Invisible Boy."


[1] Like Lassie, "Robbie" is a bloodline. (dataline?) Starting in the mid '70s a replica took over most of the work.
--
-Jack
t***@gmail.com
2020-03-30 18:11:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
As much of a fan as Robbie as I am, I can see that it was inevitable that he [1] was going to be typecast. I don't think any other film of the '60s could have used him, and you can see the pitfalls in writing a movie around him in "The Invisible Boy."
That's ok - with the wonders of state-of-the-art (at the time) makeup and effects, he was
able to have a long career on Lost in Space. :)
- Tony
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2020-03-30 18:17:37 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
Post by Jack Bohn
As much of a fan as Robbie as I am, I can see that it was inevitable
that he [1] was going to be typecast. I don't think any other film of
the '60s could have used him, and you can see the pitfalls in writing a
movie around him in "The Invisible Boy."
That's ok - with the wonders of state-of-the-art (at the time) makeup and effects, he was
able to have a long career on Lost in Space. :)
- Tony
Actually Robbie did have a guest shot on LIS. He was a "robotoid" as I
recall, and evil to B9's "good".

I think the last time I saw Robbie was on "Mork & Mindy".
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
t***@gmail.com
2020-04-01 16:54:43 UTC
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Post by Ted Nolan <tednolan>
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Jack Bohn
Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
Post by Jack Bohn
As much of a fan as Robbie as I am, I can see that it was inevitable
that he [1] was going to be typecast. I don't think any other film of
the '60s could have used him, and you can see the pitfalls in writing a
movie around him in "The Invisible Boy."
That's ok - with the wonders of state-of-the-art (at the time) makeup and effects, he was
able to have a long career on Lost in Space. :)
- Tony
Actually Robbie did have a guest shot on LIS. He was a "robotoid" as I
recall, and evil to B9's "good".
I think the last time I saw Robbie was on "Mork & Mindy".
Heh - I think I remember that one actually, but I'd forgotten until you mentioned it.
Hmm. - it turns out Robby did a number of things (many cameos) after that even,
including The Love Boat!:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robby_the_Robot#Later_appearances

Tony
Jack Bohn
2020-04-02 16:41:45 UTC
Permalink
tonyn wrote:
 
Hmm. - it turns out Robby did a number of things (many cameos) after that even, 
including The Love Boat!: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robby_the_Robot#Later_appearances 
Heh, he has his own IMDb page! I guess an "Introducing" credit will do that for you.

Between the two, they show the Columbo alterations, and describe the changes for "Uncle Simon" and the Project U.F.O./Space Academy/The Phantom Empire [1] appearances. I suppose if someone wanted to see the latter two, they could image search.

These special circumstances allow the cartoon cameo in the Heavy Metal movie to be mentioned. I'll have to look into that; I wonder if any differences would be variants, or just fall under caricature. When not having to work on an existing physical structure, changes can go far afield. See:

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?832659



[1] The 1988 Phantom Empire is not the remake of the Gene Autry Phantom Empire robot-fest; that was called "The Secret Empire." This one is its own abomination, but apparently it made it to video.
--
-Jack
Quadibloc
2020-04-03 20:36:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack Bohn
[1] The 1988 Phantom Empire is not the remake of the Gene Autry Phantom Empire
robot-fest; that was called "The Secret Empire." This one is its own
abomination, but apparently it made it to video.
And then there was that other Secret Empire: the guys in the red uniforms. That
turned out to be working for the guys in the green uniforms (Hydra) just like
the guys in the yellow uniforms (Advanced Idea Mechanics) were.

Back in the days when Kirby was still drawing Nick Fury, instead of Steranko.

John Savard

Johnny1A
2020-03-31 05:14:39 UTC
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Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
I said I consider FP the best SF movie Hollywood has made, and I do, though I dod consider the ending weak. Not Morbius' death. That worked well, it looked rather as if the effort of dismissing the Id Monster induced a stroke or a heart attack.

But the self-destruct plunger had no reason to be exist, or if it existed, to be where it was. That ending reminded me of the ending of _Bride of Frankenstein_, except that Dr. Praetorius did have a plausible reason to have a self-destruct for his lab, he had stuff to hide. It makes no sense in FP.
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
2020-03-31 05:47:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
I said I consider FP the best SF movie Hollywood has made, and I do,
though I dod consider the ending weak. Not Morbius' death. That worked
well, it looked rather as if the effort of dismissing the Id Monster
induced a stroke or a heart attack.
But the self-destruct plunger had no reason to be exist, or if it
existed, to be where it was. That ending reminded me of the ending of
_Bride of Frankenstein_, except that Dr. Praetorius did have a plausible
reason to have a self-destruct for his lab, he had stuff to hide. It
makes no sense in FP.

--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-03-31 06:00:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
I said I consider FP the best SF movie Hollywood has made, and I do,
though I dod consider the ending weak. Not Morbius' death. That worked
well, it looked rather as if the effort of dismissing the Id Monster
induced a stroke or a heart attack.
But the self-destruct plunger had no reason to be exist, or if it
existed, to be where it was. That ending reminded me of the ending of
_Bride of Frankenstein_, except that Dr. Praetorius did have a plausible
reason to have a self-destruct for his lab, he had stuff to hide. It
makes no sense in FP.
Well, the Krell did all do themselves/each other in. Perhaps the
last Krell put in the self-destruct to destroy the planet, but
was killed by the Id-monster of the next-to-the-last Krell.
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
Jerry Brown
2020-03-31 11:59:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
I said I consider FP the best SF movie Hollywood has made, and I do,
though I dod consider the ending weak. Not Morbius' death. That worked
well, it looked rather as if the effort of dismissing the Id Monster
induced a stroke or a heart attack.
But the self-destruct plunger had no reason to be exist, or if it
existed, to be where it was. That ending reminded me of the ending of
_Bride of Frankenstein_, except that Dr. Praetorius did have a plausible
reason to have a self-destruct for his lab, he had stuff to hide. It
makes no sense in FP.
Well, the Krell did all do themselves/each other in. Perhaps the
last Krell put in the self-destruct to destroy the planet, but
was killed by the Id-monster of the next-to-the-last Krell.
Maybe Morbius was skilled enough with the tech by that point to have
created the trigger next to him just before he told Adams to activate
it.
--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)
p***@hotmail.com
2020-03-31 19:08:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Brown
Post by Dorothy J Heydt
Post by James Nicoll
Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
Post by James Nicoll
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
I said I consider FP the best SF movie Hollywood has made, and I do,
though I dod consider the ending weak. Not Morbius' death. That worked
well, it looked rather as if the effort of dismissing the Id Monster
induced a stroke or a heart attack.
But the self-destruct plunger had no reason to be exist, or if it
existed, to be where it was. That ending reminded me of the ending of
_Bride of Frankenstein_, except that Dr. Praetorius did have a plausible
reason to have a self-destruct for his lab, he had stuff to hide. It
makes no sense in FP.
Well, the Krell did all do themselves/each other in. Perhaps the
last Krell put in the self-destruct to destroy the planet, but
was killed by the Id-monster of the next-to-the-last Krell.
Maybe Morbius was skilled enough with the tech by that point to have
created the trigger next to him just before he told Adams to activate
it.
The concept of reconfiguring controls in real time had already been used
in science fiction. The following is from _Skylark Three_ by Edward E. Smith
as it appeared in magazine form in _Amazing Stories_, August, September, and
October 1930, courtesy of the Gutenberg Project. The Fenechrone had refused
Richard Seaton's ultimatum and are mobilizing for war. As part of this they
are sending out message torpedoes to all their distant ships. Seaton is holding
off on destroying the Fenechrone home planet until he can put tracer rays on
all the outgoing torpedoes so that he can find and destroy the outlying ships. Seaton and Roval of Norlamin monitor the Fenechrone headquarters at will via
their fifth order force projector:

The chief operator touched a lever and the chair upon which he sat, with all
its control panels, slid rapidly across the floor toward an apparently blank
wall. As he reached it, a port opened a metal scroll appeared, containing the
numbers and last reported positions of all Fenachrone vessels outside the
detector zone, and a vast magazine of torpedoes came up through the floor, with
an automatic loader to place a torpedo under the operator's hand the instant
its predecessor had been launched.

"Get Peg here quick, Mart—we need a stenographer. Till she gets here, see what
you can do in getting those first numbers before they roll off the end of the
scroll. No, hold it—as you were! I've got controls enough to put the whole
thing on a recorder, so we can study it at our leisure."

Haste was indeed necessary for the operator worked with uncanny quickness of
hand. One fleeting glance at the scroll, a lightning adjustment of dials in
the torpedo, a touch upon a tiny button, and a messenger was upon its way. But
quick as he was, Seaton's flying fingers kept up with him, and before each
torpedo disappeared through the ether gate there was fastened upon it a fifth-
order tracer ray that would never leave it until the force had been disconnected
at the gigantic control board of the Norlaminian projector. One flying minute passed during which seventy torpedoes had been launched, before Seaton spoke.

"Wonder how many ships they've got out, anyway? Didn't get any idea from the
brain-record. Anyway, Rovol, it might be a sound idea for you to install me
some more tracer rays on this board, I've got only a couple of hundred, and
that may not be enough—and I've got both hands full."

Rovol seated himself beside the younger man, like one organist joining another
at the console of a tremendous organ. Seaton's nimble fingers would flash here
and there, depressing keys and manipulating controls until he had exactly the
required combination of forces centered upon the torpedo next to issue. He then
would press a tiny switch and upon a panel full of red-topped, numbered
plungers; the one next in series would drive home, transferring to itself the
assembled beam and releasing the keys for the assembly of other forces.
Rovol's fingers were also flying, but the forces he directed were seizing and
shaping material, as well as other forces. The Norlaminian physicist, set up
one integral, stepped upon a pedal, and a new red-topped stop precisely like
the others and numbered in order, appeared as though by magic upon the panel
at Seaton's left hand. Rovol then leaned back in his seat—but the red-topped
stops continued to appear, at the rate of exactly seventy per minute, upon the
panel, which increased in width sufficiently to accommodate another row as soon
as a row was completed.

Rovol bent a quizzical glance upon the younger scientist, who blushed a fiery
red, rapidly set up another integral, then also leaned back in his place, while
his face burned deeper than before.

"That is better, son. Never forget that it is a waste of energy to do the same
thing twice with your hands and that if you know precisely what is to be done,
you need not do it with your hands at all. Forces are tireless, and they
neither slip nor make mistakes."

This scene has become iconic as a prescient look at automation, information
technology and algorithms.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist
James Nicoll
2020-03-31 14:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johnny1A
Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
I said I consider FP the best SF movie Hollywood has made, and I do, though I dod consider the
ending weak. Not Morbius' death. That worked well, it looked rather as if the effort of
dismissing the Id Monster induced a stroke or a heart attack.
But the self-destruct plunger had no reason to be exist, or if it existed, to be where it was.
That ending reminded me of the ending of _Bride of Frankenstein_, except that Dr. Praetorius
did have a plausible reason to have a self-destruct for his lab, he had stuff to hide. It
makes no sense in FP.
I don't think it existed until Morbius willed it into being about 30 seconds before it was
used.
--
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
Dorothy J Heydt
2020-03-31 16:11:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Nicoll
Post by Johnny1A
Post by James Nicoll
Another One of Them New Worlds: Revisiting Forbidden Planet
https://www.tor.com/2020/03/30/another-one-of-them-new-worlds-revisiting-forbidden-planet/
Post by Johnny1A
I said I consider FP the best SF movie Hollywood has made, and I do,
though I dod consider the
Post by Johnny1A
ending weak. Not Morbius' death. That worked well, it looked rather
as if the effort of
Post by Johnny1A
dismissing the Id Monster induced a stroke or a heart attack.
But the self-destruct plunger had no reason to be exist, or if it
existed, to be where it was.
Post by Johnny1A
That ending reminded me of the ending of _Bride of Frankenstein_,
except that Dr. Praetorius
Post by Johnny1A
did have a plausible reason to have a self-destruct for his lab, he had
stuff to hide. It
Post by Johnny1A
makes no sense in FP.
I don't think it existed until Morbius willed it into being about 30 seconds before it was
used.
Hmmm. Considering his Krelloid powers, that's not impossible.
But once he and his Id-Monster double-killed, does he still have
them?
--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/
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