Is there any functionality the iTunes abomination does, for a dual-boot Win/Ubuntu PC that can't be done, better, WITHOUT iTunes?

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

Is there any FUNCTIONALITY the iTunes abomination does, that you need, for
a dual-boot Win/Ubuntu PC that can't be done, better, WITHOUT iTunes?

The apologists over on m.p.m.i claim that a PC is actually "more
functional" with iTunes, than without iTunes altogether.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/8ZdW46-uS4g/oOdED7AcAgAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/8ZdW46-uS4g/X5-H5gIjAgAJ>

Maybe that's the case; but my belief system is _based_ on facts.
o Not marketing bullshit

And the facts are that I deleted the iTunes abomination long ago from my
Windows PCs, and I do whatever I need to do with the iOS devices with my
dual-boot Linux/Windows PC (e.g., the _entire_ non-jailbroken iPad's
visible file system is available to me (even system files), read and write,
over USB, as is the entire Windows & Linux file system, simultaneously, at
the same time, as is the entire Android file system (although, since
Android is unrooted, I can only read everything but not write to the system
partitions on Android).

Since I no longer use the iTunes abomination, I ask those who do...
Is there any FUNCTIONALITY the iTunes abomination does, that you need, for
a dual-boot Win/Ubuntu PC that can't be done, better, WITHOUT iTunes?

[*Hemidactylus*]

Post by Arlen _G_ Holder
Is there any FUNCTIONALITY the iTunes abomination does, that you need, for
a dual-boot Win/Ubuntu PC that can't be done, better, WITHOUT iTunes?
The apologists over on m.p.m.i claim that a PC is actually "more
functional" with iTunes, than without iTunes altogether.
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/8ZdW46-uS4g/oOdED7AcAgAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/8ZdW46-uS4g/X5-H5gIjAgAJ>
Maybe that's the case; but my belief system is _based_ on facts.
o Not marketing bullshit
And the facts are that I deleted the iTunes abomination long ago from my
Windows PCs, and I do whatever I need to do with the iOS devices with my
dual-boot Linux/Windows PC (e.g., the _entire_ non-jailbroken iPad's
visible file system is available to me (even system files), read and write,
over USB, as is the entire Windows & Linux file system, simultaneously, at
the same time, as is the entire Android file system (although, since
Android is unrooted, I can only read everything but not write to the system
partitions on Android).
Since I no longer use the iTunes abomination, I ask those who do...
Is there any FUNCTIONALITY the iTunes abomination does, that you need, for
a dual-boot Win/Ubuntu PC that can't be done, better, WITHOUT iTunes?

Years ago I found the music streaming availability on iTunes with all the
genres useful. But I do recall something about Bonjour and its zeroconf
stuff being chatty over a network which was being logged by my software
firewall and was disconcerting until I figured out that was just more
expressed functionality.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

Post by *Hemidactylus*
Years ago I found the music streaming availability on iTunes with all the
genres useful. But I do recall something about Bonjour and its zeroconf
stuff being chatty over a network which was being logged by my software
firewall and was disconcerting until I figured out that was just more
expressed functionality.

Hi Hemidactylus,

All I ever care about, are the facts of the matter.

Thanks for that input on what, possibly, iTunes can do for a user, for
free, on a PC that the user wants to do, and which the user can't already
do better, without the iTunes freeware installed.
o It seems there are so many ways to 'listen to' music it's not funny.

I'm not a big music fan, but I've learned over the years that MARKETING has
a field day "providing ready-made solutions" to common needs, for people
who don't want to think all that much (e.g., data backup & recovery, DVD
ripping & burner software, snapshot & image editors, music & video players,
video & music downloaders, etc.).

In addition, I'm not sure what you exactly mean by "music streaming", where
maybe others who use iTunes for "music streaming" can expound; but I
generally quite easily freely download any music I want sans iTunes to
store, and play, on my iPods, iPads, Android devices, hard drives, flash
drives (anything in fact, that stores data), or PC.

Once downloaded (which is all automatic), I can freely "play music".

Personally, I don't "stream music" (why bother streaming when downloading
is essentially automatic anyway?), where I googled how Windows or Linux
would freely "stream music" sans iTunes.

This first hit shows 14 free Linux/Windows open-source music servers
<https://www.how2shout.com/tools/best-open-source-free-music-server-software.html>
1. Plex
2. Emby Server
3. Subsonic
4. Ampache ¡V Music Streaming Server
5. Madsonic
6. Airsonic
7. Serviio
8. Daphile- Dedicated Headless Music Server
9. VortexBox music server distro
10. Icecast
11. Mopidy
12. Sockso
13. Jinzora
14. Music Player Daemon

8 Free & Best Open source Video Streaming Servers Software
<https://www.how2shout.com/tools/free-best-open-source-video-streaming-servers-software.html>
1. Red5 Open source media server
2. MistServer Open Source
3. Kurento Media server
4. Streamhash¡V Netflix Clone Free Lite version
5. Clipbucket: Enterprise OpenSource Video Broadcasting Solution
6. Plex Media Server
7. openflixr 2
8. Opencast


6 of the Best Free Linux Music Servers
<https://www.linuxlinks.com/musicservers/>
1. Sockso, Personal music server for everyone
2. Jinzora, Web based media streaming and management system
3. Subsonic, Web based media streamer and jukebox
4. Icecast, Ogg Vorbis and MP3 streaming media server
5. Music Player Daemon, Server-side application for playing music
6. Firefly Media Server Media Server for the Roku SoundBridge and iTunes

9 Best music server software options: Build your own Spotify
1. Plex
2. Subsonic
3. Madsonic
4. Ampache
5. Mopidy
6. Serviio
7. Playon
8. Airsonic
9. Libresonic

The Best Sites for Streaming Free Music
<https://www.howtogeek.com/365820/the-best-sites-for-streaming-free-music/>
1. Spotify
2. Pandora
3. Google Play Music
4. iHeartRadio
5. SoundCloud
6. SHOUTcast
7. AccuRadio
8. Last.fm

As you can imagine, these lists went on and on (and on), where I would like
to ask someone who "streams music" what iTunes does for them on a typical
dual-boot PC that they can't do better WITHOUT iTunes with respect to
"streaming music"?

[*Hemidactylus*]

Post by Arlen _G_ Holder

Post by *Hemidactylus*
Years ago I found the music streaming availability on iTunes with all the
genres useful. But I do recall something about Bonjour and its zeroconf
stuff being chatty over a network which was being logged by my software
firewall and was disconcerting until I figured out that was just more
expressed functionality.

Hi Hemidactylus,
All I ever care about, are the facts of the matter.
Thanks for that input on what, possibly, iTunes can do for a user, for
free, on a PC that the user wants to do, and which the user can't already
do better, without the iTunes freeware installed.
o It seems there are so many ways to 'listen to' music it's not funny.
I'm not a big music fan, but I've learned over the years that MARKETING has
a field day "providing ready-made solutions" to common needs, for people
who don't want to think all that much (e.g., data backup & recovery, DVD
ripping & burner software, snapshot & image editors, music & video players,
video & music downloaders, etc.).
In addition, I'm not sure what you exactly mean by "music streaming", where
maybe others who use iTunes for "music streaming" can expound; but I
generally quite easily freely download any music I want sans iTunes to
store, and play, on my iPods, iPads, Android devices, hard drives, flash
drives (anything in fact, that stores data), or PC.
Once downloaded (which is all automatic), I can freely "play music".
Personally, I don't "stream music" (why bother streaming when downloading
is essentially automatic anyway?), where I googled how Windows or Linux
would freely "stream music" sans iTunes.
This first hit shows 14 free Linux/Windows open-source music servers
<https://www.how2shout.com/tools/best-open-source-free-music-server-software.html>
1. Plex
2. Emby Server
3. Subsonic
4. Ampache ¡V Music Streaming Server
5. Madsonic
6. Airsonic
7. Serviio
8. Daphile- Dedicated Headless Music Server
9. VortexBox music server distro
10. Icecast
11. Mopidy
12. Sockso
13. Jinzora
14. Music Player Daemon
8 Free & Best Open source Video Streaming Servers Software
<https://www.how2shout.com/tools/free-best-open-source-video-streaming-servers-software.html>
1. Red5 Open source media server
2. MistServer Open Source
3. Kurento Media server
4. Streamhash¡V Netflix Clone Free Lite version
5. Clipbucket: Enterprise OpenSource Video Broadcasting Solution
6. Plex Media Server
7. openflixr 2
8. Opencast
6 of the Best Free Linux Music Servers
<https://www.linuxlinks.com/musicservers/>
1. Sockso, Personal music server for everyone
2. Jinzora, Web based media streaming and management system
3. Subsonic, Web based media streamer and jukebox
4. Icecast, Ogg Vorbis and MP3 streaming media server
5. Music Player Daemon, Server-side application for playing music
6. Firefly Media Server Media Server for the Roku SoundBridge and iTunes
9 Best music server software options: Build your own Spotify
1. Plex
2. Subsonic
3. Madsonic
4. Ampache
5. Mopidy
6. Serviio
7. Playon
8. Airsonic
9. Libresonic
The Best Sites for Streaming Free Music
<https://www.howtogeek.com/365820/the-best-sites-for-streaming-free-music/>
1. Spotify
2. Pandora
3. Google Play Music
4. iHeartRadio
5. SoundCloud
6. SHOUTcast
7. AccuRadio
8. Last.fm
As you can imagine, these lists went on and on (and on), where I would like
to ask someone who "streams music" what iTunes does for them on a typical
dual-boot PC that they can't do better WITHOUT iTunes with respect to
"streaming music"?

We are talking almost a decade ago but iTunes had oodles of content
available and I liked it. I don’t give a flying fuck how that processes in
your fucked up festering shit-tank you call a brain. Pandora always seemed
a silly waste of time when I have Youtube. Soundcloud is cool for limited
interest esoteric stuff. I’d rather be shot in the skull by a rusty bail
gun than stoop to Google Play Music whatever the fuck that is. Sounds
horrible.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

Post by *Hemidactylus*
But I do recall something about Bonjour and its zeroconf
stuff being chatty over a network which was being logged by my software
firewall and was disconcerting until I figured out that was just more
expressed functionality.

Hi Hemidactylus,

Regarding Bonjour, bear in mind that my PCs have no problem reading and
writing to the entire visible iOS file system (even down to viewing system
files) without need for _any_ extra software other than what's _native_ for
free on the original OS as installed.

Basically, you plug the iPad into the PC and the iPad becomes a USB stick.
o For free. With no additional software other than the installed native OS.

As for "Bonjour", the first thing we have to warn people about is that
Apple never tested the iTunes amalgamation, which was proven in spades
recently, detailed here, so, just installing iTunes is a security risk.
o A zero-day vulnerability in iCloud and iTunes on Windows PCs allowed hackers to install ransomware undetected.
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/xVu_O8Qeyss>

In that situation, you're better off WITHOUT Bonjour, than with it; but
let's see what Bonjour does for us, as, well, how many people don't know
that Quicktime, for example, was 'enforced' which is a classic hallmark of
patently unnecessary bloatware, where I always removed it when I could.

Worse, as I recall, none of this additional bloatware that came with the
Windows iTunes ever respected your request of where to put it, which is,
again, clearly the mark of untested software & sophomoric coding standards.

o Slimming down the bloated iTunes installer
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/slimming-down-the-bloated-itunes-installer/>
"How do you supersize a simple music manager? Ask Apple. The Windows
version of iTunes ...[includes] kernel-mode drivers, multiple system
services, and at least one add-in. It takes a supersize helping of chutzpah
to create an ad that criticizes Windows for its "bloat" and then deliver an
upgrade with as much unnecessary junk as this one. If you're like most
people, you don't need any of that additional junk."

o The unofficial guide to installing iTunes without bloatware
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itunes-10-without-bloatware/>

o Avoid iTunes Bloat With the Windows Store Version
<https://www.howtogeek.com/352307/avoid-itunes-bloat-with-the-windows-store-version/>

o Step-by-Step Guide to Installing iTunes Without Extra Bloatware
<https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/28727/how-to-install-itunes-without-extra-bloat/>

o How to Install iTunes without Bloatware
<https://geekermag.com/install-itunes-without-bloatware-windows-10/>

o Do I really need Bonjour on Windows?
<https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/45765/do-i-really-need-bonjour-on-windows>

o How to remove extra iTunes components
<https://www.ghacks.net/2017/06/12/how-to-remove-extra-itunes-components-on-windows/>

o What is Bonjour
<https://www.shouldiremoveit.com/Bonjour-5056-program.aspx>

Bonjour is Apple's implementation of the open-source Zeroconf, a multicast
DNS responder used to discover services on a local area network. It's
installed by default with the iTunes download and also installed silently
with some Adobe products, a decision that "freaked out" some Adobe
customers. Adding unauthorized peer-to-peer services on a corporate network
is a distinct no-no, as a number of customers have told Apple on their
support forums. (The response? Crickets.) If you want to share iTunes
libraries over a network or use Apple TV, you need Bonjour. If you have a
printer attached to an AirPort device, you should use Bonjour. However, if
you simply want to play media files and sync your iTunes library with your
iPod, you don't need Bonjour. (And Photoshop users can safely remove it as
well unless they have a Version Cue server on their network.)

Apple installs a _lot_ more unnecessary bloatware with iTunes, but since
you only brought up Bonjour, it seems to be, upon quick inspection, a
completely unnecessary, unwanted, probably proprietary Apple implementation
of an existing open standard that likely works far better WITHOUT Bonjour,
than with Bonjour.

Do others who know more than I do about Bonjour concur with this quick
assessment of the "value" of Bonjour, over NOT having Bonjour, to a typical
user who just wants to 'stream music', as Hemidactylus stated?

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

Post by *Hemidactylus*
We are talking almost a decade ago but iTunes had oodles of content
available and I liked it. I don¢t give a flying fuck how that processes in
your fucked up festering shit-tank you call a brain. Pandora always seemed
a silly waste of time when I have Youtube. Soundcloud is cool for limited
interest esoteric stuff. I¢d rather be shot in the skull by a rusty bail
gun than stoop to Google Play Music whatever the fuck that is. Sounds
horrible.

Hi Hemidactylus,

Adults can do two things, which are important for adults to master:
a. Adults comprehend facts;
b. Adults assess those facts using logic and reason (i.e., sense).

You expressed the opinion that iTunes is, somehow better, for "streaming
music", than a PC that does NOT have iTunes installed, where I'm fleshing
out your stated belief system for you (and for others to add value).

I don't use Pandora, but Googling for free replacements, I find there are
almost too many to easily list, where this article is the first hit:
o 20 best alternatives to Pandora
<https://www.slant.co/options/17/alternatives/~pandora-alternatives>
1. Spotify
2. Radio4000
3. SoundCloud
4. MixCloud
5. Googe Play Music
6. 8 Tracks
7. Slacker Radio
8. Last.fm
9. Digitally Imported (DI.fm)
10. YouTube
11. Tidal
12. Deezer Music
13. Bandcamp
14. Great.dj
15. Upbeat
16. TuneIn Radio
17. Anghami
18. Qobuz
19. Hype Machine
20. Amazon Music Unlimited

o 10 new Pandora alternatives for listening, sharing and organizing Music
<http://www.techacker.com/10-new-pandora-alternatives-for-listening-sharing-and-organizing-music/>
1. Spotify
2. Google Music
3. Sony Music Unlimited
4. Rdio
5. MOG
6. Gaana.com
7. Exfm (deprecated)
8. Dhingana
9. We are Hunted
10. Grooveshark

Given you don't like Pandora or Google, and that you find YouTube
apparently sufficient, I wonder if you know that you can download and play
anything on youtube, always sans ads, always for free, simply by feeding a
playlist to a decent platform independent downloader?

Given this, it seems, to me, upon inspection and quick analysis, you have
far more "music streaming" functionality on a PC that does NOT have iTunes,
for streaming anyway, than with a PC where you're forced to use iTunes (for
streaming anyway).

Do others concur, who use iTunes, on a PC, that the "streaming music"
functionality is greater WITHOUT iTunes, than if you're forced to use
iTunes?

[nospam]

Post by Arlen _G_ Holder
In addition, I'm not sure what you exactly mean by "music streaming",

then you're not very smart.

Post by Arlen _G_ Holder
where
maybe others who use iTunes for "music streaming" can expound; but I
generally quite easily freely download any music I want sans iTunes to
store, and play, on my iPods, iPads, Android devices, hard drives, flash
drives (anything in fact, that stores data), or PC.

otherwise known as piracy.

[Arlen _G_ Holder]

Post by *Hemidactylus*
But I do recall something about Bonjour and its zeroconf
stuff being chatty over a network which was being logged by my software
firewall and was disconcerting until I figured out that was just more
expressed functionality.

Hi Hemidactylus,

Adults do two things which are important:
a. Adults comprehend facts;
b. Adults assess those facts (using logic, and reason).

Regarding having more functionality WITHOUT Bonjour, than with it,
Linux has no problem "seeing" an iPad for both read & write to and from the
entire iOS visible file system (even down to system files) where this
thread is always about unjailbroken devices.

Basically, you plug the iPad into the PC and the iPad becomes a USB stick.
o For free. With no additional software other than the installed native OS.

As for "Bonjour", the first thing we have to warn people about is that
Apple never tested the iTunes amalgamation, which was proven in spades
recently, detailed here, so, just installing iTunes is a security risk.
o A zero-day vulnerability in iCloud and iTunes on Windows PCs allowed
hackers to install ransomware undetected.
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/xVu_O8Qeyss>

In that situation, you're better off WITHOUT Bonjour, than with it; but
let's see what Bonjour does for us, as, well, how many people don't know
that Quicktime, for example, was 'enforced' which is a classic hallmark of
patently unnecessary bloatware, where I always removed it when I could.

Worse, as I recall, none of this additional bloatware that came with the
Windows iTunes ever respected your request of where to put it, which is,
again, clearly the mark of untested software & sophomoric coding standards.

o Slimming down the bloated iTunes installer
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/slimming-down-the-bloated-itunes-installer/>
"How do you supersize a simple music manager? Ask Apple. The Windows
version of iTunes ...[includes] kernel-mode drivers, multiple system
services, and at least one add-in. It takes a supersize helping of chutzpah
to create an ad that criticizes Windows for its "bloat" and then deliver an
upgrade with as much unnecessary junk as this one. If you're like most
people, you don't need any of that additional junk."

o The unofficial guide to installing iTunes without bloatware
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itunes-10-without-bloatware/>

o Avoid iTunes Bloat With the Windows Store Version
<https://www.howtogeek.com/352307/avoid-itunes-bloat-with-the-windows-store-version/>

o Step-by-Step Guide to Installing iTunes Without Extra Bloatware
<https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/28727/how-to-install-itunes-without-extra-bloat/>

o How to Install iTunes without Bloatware
<https://geekermag.com/install-itunes-without-bloatware-windows-10/>

o Do I really need Bonjour on Windows?
<https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/45765/do-i-really-need-bonjour-on-windows>

o How to remove extra iTunes components
<https://www.ghacks.net/2017/06/12/how-to-remove-extra-itunes-components-on-windows/>

o What is Bonjour
<https://www.shouldiremoveit.com/Bonjour-5056-program.aspx>

Bonjour is Apple's implementation of the open-source Zeroconf, a multicast
DNS responder used to discover services on a local area network. It's
installed by default with the iTunes download and also installed silently
with some Adobe products, a decision that "freaked out" some Adobe
customers. Adding unauthorized peer-to-peer services on a corporate network
is a distinct no-no, as a number of customers have told Apple on their
support forums. (The response? Crickets.) If you want to share iTunes
libraries over a network or use Apple TV, you need Bonjour. If you have a
printer attached to an AirPort device, you should use Bonjour. However, if
you simply want to play media files and sync your iTunes library with your
iPod, you don't need Bonjour. (And Photoshop users can safely remove it as
well unless they have a Version Cue server on their network.)

Apple installs a _lot_ more unnecessary bloatware with iTunes, but since
you only brought up Bonjour, it seems to be, upon quick inspection, a
completely unnecessary, unwanted, probably proprietary Apple implementation
of an existing open standard that likely works far better WITHOUT Bonjour,
than with Bonjour.

Do others who know more than I do about Bonjour concur with this quick
assessment of the "value" of Bonjour, over NOT having Bonjour, to a typical
user who just wants to 'stream music', as Hemidactylus stated?

[*Hemidactylus*]

Post by Arlen _G_ Holder

Post by *Hemidactylus*
But I do recall something about Bonjour and its zeroconf
stuff being chatty over a network which was being logged by my software
firewall and was disconcerting until I figured out that was just more
expressed functionality.

Hi Hemidactylus,
a. Adults comprehend facts;
b. Adults assess those facts (using logic, and reason).
Regarding having more functionality WITHOUT Bonjour, than with it,
Linux has no problem "seeing" an iPad for both read & write to and from the
entire iOS visible file system (even down to system files) where this
thread is always about unjailbroken devices.
Basically, you plug the iPad into the PC and the iPad becomes a USB stick.
o For free. With no additional software other than the installed native OS.
As for "Bonjour", the first thing we have to warn people about is that
Apple never tested the iTunes amalgamation, which was proven in spades
recently, detailed here, so, just installing iTunes is a security risk.
o A zero-day vulnerability in iCloud and iTunes on Windows PCs allowed
hackers to install ransomware undetected.
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/microsoft.public.windowsxp.general/xVu_O8Qeyss>
In that situation, you're better off WITHOUT Bonjour, than with it; but
let's see what Bonjour does for us, as, well, how many people don't know
that Quicktime, for example, was 'enforced' which is a classic hallmark of
patently unnecessary bloatware, where I always removed it when I could.
Worse, as I recall, none of this additional bloatware that came with the
Windows iTunes ever respected your request of where to put it, which is,
again, clearly the mark of untested software & sophomoric coding standards.
o Slimming down the bloated iTunes installer
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/slimming-down-the-bloated-itunes-installer/>
"How do you supersize a simple music manager? Ask Apple. The Windows
version of iTunes ...[includes] kernel-mode drivers, multiple system
services, and at least one add-in. It takes a supersize helping of chutzpah
to create an ad that criticizes Windows for its "bloat" and then deliver an
upgrade with as much unnecessary junk as this one. If you're like most
people, you don't need any of that additional junk."
o The unofficial guide to installing iTunes without bloatware
<https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itunes-10-without-bloatware/>
o Avoid iTunes Bloat With the Windows Store Version
<https://www.howtogeek.com/352307/avoid-itunes-bloat-with-the-windows-store-version/>
o Step-by-Step Guide to Installing iTunes Without Extra Bloatware
<https://www.howtogeek.com/howto/28727/how-to-install-itunes-without-extra-bloat/>
o How to Install iTunes without Bloatware
<https://geekermag.com/install-itunes-without-bloatware-windows-10/>
o Do I really need Bonjour on Windows?
<https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/45765/do-i-really-need-bonjour-on-windows>
o How to remove extra iTunes components
<https://www.ghacks.net/2017/06/12/how-to-remove-extra-itunes-components-on-windows/>
o What is Bonjour
<https://www.shouldiremoveit.com/Bonjour-5056-program.aspx>
Bonjour is Apple's implementation of the open-source Zeroconf, a multicast
DNS responder used to discover services on a local area network. It's
installed by default with the iTunes download and also installed silently
with some Adobe products, a decision that "freaked out" some Adobe
customers. Adding unauthorized peer-to-peer services on a corporate network
is a distinct no-no, as a number of customers have told Apple on their
support forums. (The response? Crickets.) If you want to share iTunes
libraries over a network or use Apple TV, you need Bonjour. If you have a
printer attached to an AirPort device, you should use Bonjour. However, if
you simply want to play media files and sync your iTunes library with your
iPod, you don't need Bonjour. (And Photoshop users can safely remove it as
well unless they have a Version Cue server on their network.)
Apple installs a _lot_ more unnecessary bloatware with iTunes, but since
you only brought up Bonjour, it seems to be, upon quick inspection, a
completely unnecessary, unwanted, probably proprietary Apple implementation
of an existing open standard that likely works far better WITHOUT Bonjour,
than with Bonjour.
Do others who know more than I do about Bonjour concur with this quick
assessment of the "value" of Bonjour, over NOT having Bonjour, to a typical
user who just wants to 'stream music', as Hemidactylus stated?

TLDR. Adults know how to best prioritize their time. Replying to you shows
a flaw of immaturity on my part. Grownups have you kill-filtered.

[Dan Purgert]

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Hash: SHA256

["Followup-To:" header set to alt.os.linux.]

Post by *Hemidactylus*

Post by Arlen _G_ Holder

Post by *Hemidactylus*
But I do recall something about Bonjour and its zeroconf
stuff being chatty over a network which was being logged by my software
firewall and was disconcerting until I figured out that was just more
expressed functionality.

Hi Hemidactylus,

TLDR. Adults know how to best prioritize their time. Replying to you shows
a flaw of immaturity on my part. Grownups have you kill-filtered.

The second thing being posting to relevant groups (this is not an
admonition of you, Hemidactylus ... you just forgot thing two :) )


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[Arlen _G_ Holder]

I realize it's a hard pill to swallow ... but...

Adults do two things which are important:
a. Adults comprehend facts;
b. Adults assess those facts (using logic and reason).

You have _more_ functionality without iTunes installed, than with.

If there was something useful that iTunes did, someone could mention it.

And we can discuss it, like adults do; but so far, if "streaming" is all
that iTunes does, then you can certainly do better without iTunes.

[Arlen Holder]

UPDATE:
o Key lessons learned using iTunes on Windows today...
"If I ever update iPadOS again, I'll do it over the air,
not via the [Windows] computer [with iTunes]!"

A recent related discussion today came about on the iOS newsgroups:
o iOS v12.4.5 & iPadOS v13.3.1 are out!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/N2mr-p87bAw/DhK0P35nEgAJ>
"Well, I tried to update my iPad Pro to iPadOS 13.3.1, and it's failed.
I did it via iTunes on my PC"

Where Apple purportedly walked that Windows/iOS user through wiping out an
errant iTunes installation, and, reputedly, having that hapless iOS user
install iTunes from the Windows Store.

Recliner:
"iTunes doesn't detect the iPad."
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/N2mr-p87bAw/KyEQJGdoEgAJ>

Recliner:
"I've tried two different cables, using different USB sockets on the PC"
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/N2mr-p87bAw/AfuO7vhsEgAJ>

Recliner:
"Now sorted, after a long phone session with senior Apple support and
linking to me PC. Had to completely remove iTunes from my PC (which
meant removing about six separate products), install it again from the
Microsoft store, update a device driver, and completely restore the
iPad Pro from scratch, going back to the initial Hello screen.

I've learned my lesson: in future, if I ever update iPadOS again, I'll
do it over the air, not via the computer! "

Recliner:
"Apple Support specifically got me to go through the slow, complex process
of removing all the components that Apple had installed when I downloaded
from the Apple web site, and replace them with the single, much cleaner
install from the Microsoft store. And that version does indeed work
better. Perhaps Microsoft actually does know more about installing software
on a Windows computer than Apple does? Who'd have imagined it?"
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/N2mr-p87bAw/t2oZdeN-EgAJ>

See also:
o *The rise and fall of iTunes, Apple's most hated app*
<https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/3/18650571/apple-itunes-rip-discontinued-macos-10-15-ipod-store-digital-music-wwdc-2019>

"Windows 10 users would search for iTunes so much in the Windows Store
that Microsoft eventually convinced Apple to bring it to the store last
year. Over the years, however, Apple¢s original philosophy of providing a
one-stop shop for all your media became iTunes¢ greatest undoing by
saddling the app with more and more baggage that¢s eaten away at its
usability. The world has moved on as ubiquitous connectivity, cloud
storage, and streaming media became the norm. iTunes is still around as a
legacy app for those who need it. But for everyone else, iTunes is now
officially a thing of the past."

"Few will mourn the passing of the bloated mess that iTunes has become."

[nospam]

o *The rise and fall of Arlen Holder, Usenet's most hated troll*

ftfy

[Arlen Holder]

o *The rise and fall of Arlen Holder, Usenet's most hated troll*

ftfy

Apologists, like nospam, prove to have only 7 responses to fact.
o None of them adult.

o What are the common well-verified psychological traits of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM>

Meanwhile, sobriquet, an adult, posted FACTS just now on the topic:
o Adults can _read_ the cites below for the facts apologists are immune to.

Question from Recliner (an Apple apologist):
*How else do you suggest I back up my iPads to my Windows PC?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/N2mr-p87bAw/vR8tu2K4EgAJ>

Answer from sobriquet (an actual adult):
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.mobile.ipad/N2mr-p87bAw/BXetYgodAgAJ>

*There is no such thing as a backup in case of an ipad.*

For instance, you might have an app that works on a particular
version of iOS and you make a 'backup' of the ipad. Then you later
update the iOS version and it turns out that the app doesn't work
with that new version of iOS.
Now there is no way to get back to that previous version of
iOS, because apple doesn't allow downgrading of iOS. So there
is no way to create a reliable backup that would allow you to
get back to a previous situation with an older version of iOS
where you would still be able to use the app that only works
with the older version of iOS.

The only thing you can do is ensure you have a copy of any
files you transfer to the ipad, but that is not reliable in case
of app files, since upgrades of iOS can make those app files
unusable.
The only reliable kind of backup you can have is of media files
(like jpgs, mp3s, mp4s, etc..).

[гость]

Post by Arlen Holder

o *The rise and fall of Arlen Holder, Usenet's most hated troll*

ftfy

Apologists, like nospam, prove to have only 7 responses to fact.
o None of them adult.

What a moron... that’s the kind of argument you make to a nine year old, or
didn’t you get that memo?

[Arlen Holder]

Post by Arlen Holder
The only reliable kind of backup you can have is of media files
(like jpgs, mp3s, mp4s, etc..).

*You have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without it.*
o *You also have less secururity with iTunes installed, than without it.*

While it's true what sobriquet (an adult) says above:
"The only reliable iTunes iOS backup is of media files"

The main point of this thread is that you have _less_ functionality with
iTunes installed on a desktop, than _without_ iTunes installed.

I already provided the _simplest_ example, which is this simple to test:

1. Without iTunes installed on Windows, plug any number of iPods into the
USB ports, and then simply those iPods with any number of MP3 songs you
want, from anywhere you want, until you can't fit any more songs on the
iPods.

2. Then install iTunes, and try the same thing (watch what happens).

HINT: *You have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without it.*

On a Linux note, try this simple test:

A. On a dual-boot Windows computer, boot to Ubuntu & connect an iPad or
iPhone and slide any number of pictures, videos, VLC files, Acrobat PDF
documents, etc., back and forth, read and write, simultaneously, between
any USB connected device on that computer (iPads, iPhones, Android phones,
USB sticks, optical drives, etc., and of course both the Linux & Windows
filesystems) using the stock file manager that came with the desktop OS.

B. Then reboot to Windows, install iTunes, and try the same thing.

HINT: *You have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without it.*

[nospam]

Post by Arlen Holder
*You have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without it.*

false.

Post by Arlen Holder
o *You also have less secururity with iTunes installed, than without it.*

only because itunes doesn't include a spell checker.

Post by Arlen Holder
"The only reliable iTunes iOS backup is of media files"

what he said is false.

Post by Arlen Holder
The main point of this thread is that you have _less_ functionality with
iTunes installed on a desktop, than _without_ iTunes installed.

the main point in this and every other thread in which you post is to
troll.

Post by Arlen Holder
1. Without iTunes installed on Windows, plug any number of iPods into the
USB ports, and then simply those iPods with any number of MP3 songs you
want, from anywhere you want, until you can't fit any more songs on the
iPods.
2. Then install iTunes, and try the same thing (watch what happens).

that example doesn't show what you think it does.

what will happen is that it will be easy to copy music, videos, photos
and more to any number of ios devices and classic ipods, managing each
one individually, all with just one click (or no click if configured to
do so automatically). it will also be possible to back up the *entire*
ios device locally, *not* in the cloud. there are also numerous other
features, far too many to list here.

in other words, *more* functionality, not less.

Post by Arlen Holder
HINT: *You have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without it.*

nope. exactly the opposite, in fact.

Post by Arlen Holder
A. On a dual-boot Windows computer, boot to Ubuntu & connect an iPad or
iPhone and slide any number of pictures, videos, VLC files, Acrobat PDF
documents, etc., back and forth, read and write, simultaneously, between
any USB connected device on that computer (iPads, iPhones, Android phones,
USB sticks, optical drives, etc., and of course both the Linux & Windows
filesystems) using the stock file manager that came with the desktop OS.
B. Then reboot to Windows, install iTunes, and try the same thing.

and see that it's orders of magnitude easier with itunes than without.

Post by Arlen Holder
HINT: *You have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without it.*

hint: you're unable to accomplish the simplest of tasks, and are also
completely unfamiliar with what itunes can and cannot do.

[Arlen Holder]

Post by nospam
hint: you're unable to accomplish the simplest of tasks, and are also
completely unfamiliar with what itunes can and cannot do.

Hi nospam,

*You have _less_ functionality with iTunes installed, than without.*
o You also have less security with iTunes installed, than without.

I repeat the simplest proof that you have _less_ functionality with iTunes
installed, than without iTunes being installed.

You _know_ this proof is valid - and yet - you brazenly deny that fact.
o It's what defines you apologists (you deny all facts you don't like).

The fact is I have _plenty_ of iPods, all with the older version of
SharePod freeware sitting on the iPod (it's not "installed"; it is just
sitting there), where, when I plug any of my iPods into any Windows
computer on the planet, I can doubleclick on that SharePod executable
sitting on the iPod, and up pops a Windows SharePod GUI that allows me to
slide MP3 songs from any drive of any sort plugged into that computer to
any iPod plugged into that computer.

Back and forth, any iPod, any MP3 song, from anywhere, to anywhere,
"Apple-defined libraries" be damned: all without any iTunes software.

Install iTunes, and you're instantly _restricted_ in what you can do.

I repeat the basic fact, despite the fact you don't like the fact:
o *You have _less_ functionality with iTunes installed, than without.*

[nospam]

Post by Arlen Holder
I repeat the simplest proof that you have _less_ functionality with iTunes
installed, than without iTunes being installed.

your proof shows the very opposite of what you claim, and also shows
that you're utterly incapable of simple tasks.

[Arlen Holder]

Post by nospam
your proof shows the very opposite of what you claim, and also shows
that you're utterly incapable of simple tasks.

Apologists hate the fact that facts they literally hate... are still facts.

Your childish retorts show you _hate_ the fact that I'm correct on facts!
1. The fact is, *you have less functionality with iTunes, than without*.
2. The fact is, *you have less security with iTunes, than without*.

Apologists can't dispute facts; so apologists play childish games instead.
o You apologists brazenly deny facts - without even _reading_ the cites!

You call all facts you don't like to be "lies", simply because you have no
adult response to facts.

You call all bearers of facts "Liars" or "trolls", simply because you have
no adult response to facts.

It's what makes you an apologist after all, nospam.
o All you apologists prove to be fantastically _immune_ to simple facts.

[Snit]

Post by Arlen Holder

Post by nospam
your proof shows the very opposite of what you claim, and also shows
that you're utterly incapable of simple tasks.

Apologists hate the fact that facts they literally hate... are still facts.
Your childish retorts show you _hate_ the fact that I'm correct on facts!
1. The fact is, *you have less functionality with iTunes, than without*.
2. The fact is, *you have less security with iTunes, than without*.
Apologists can't dispute facts; so apologists play childish games instead.
o You apologists brazenly deny facts - without even _reading_ the cites!
You call all facts you don't like to be "lies", simply because you have no
adult response to facts.
You call all bearers of facts "Liars" or "trolls", simply because you have
no adult response to facts.
It's what makes you an apologist after all, nospam.
o All you apologists prove to be fantastically _immune_ to simple facts.

Modern macOS does not have iTunes.

[nospam]

Post by Snit
Modern macOS does not have iTunes.

only catalina, and only by name.

itunes still exists, it's just been split into multiple apps, including
music, tv and podcasts, with device syncing in the finder.

catalina finder window:
<https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_
US/macos/macos-catalina-finder-iphone-sync-music-to-device.jpg>

looks almost exactly the same as itunes did.

[Alan Baker]

Post by Arlen Holder

Post by nospam
your proof shows the very opposite of what you claim, and also shows
that you're utterly incapable of simple tasks.

Apologists hate the fact that facts they literally hate... are still facts.
Your childish retorts show you _hate_ the fact that I'm correct on facts!
1. The fact is, *you have less functionality with iTunes, than without*.

What functionality do you lose?

Post by Arlen Holder
2. The fact is, *you have less security with iTunes, than without*.

In what way?

Don't type endlessly about cites not read...

...just answer the questions.

[Arlen Holder]

Post by Alan Baker
What functionality do you lose?

You Apple apologists are not like normal adults, Alan Baker.

*What part of the simplest example I gave _multiple_ times did you miss?*
o The example you deny exists is in this thread _multiple_ times alone!

*Did you even _read_ this thread before brazenly claiming facts don't exist?*
o Apologists prove to be amazingly _immune_ to facts they don't like.

[nospam]

Post by Arlen Holder

Post by Alan Baker
What functionality do you lose?

You Apple apologists are not like normal adults, Alan Baker.
*What part of the simplest example I gave _multiple_ times did you miss?*
o The example you deny exists is in this thread _multiple_ times alone!
*Did you even _read_ this thread before brazenly claiming facts don't exist?*
o Apologists prove to be amazingly _immune_ to facts they don't like.

non-answer.

[Arlen Holder]

Post by nospam
non-answer.

Alan Baker,

*The answer was provided _multiple_ times in this thread alone.*
o All _adults_ found it; it's the apologists who brazenly deny it exist.

HINT: Search for the words "*simplest example*" since I gave Recliner,
multiple times, the simplest example that proved the point - and he -
clearly - didn't even _read_ it either - before brazenly denying the facts.

[Adam]

Post by Arlen Holder

Post by nospam
non-answer.

Alan Baker,
*The answer was provided _multiple_ times in this thread alone.*
Why are you cross posting this in alt.os.linux?

All you did was to show your anger because you couldn't answer this
simple question and because of your embarrassment you started attacking me.

Just answer in one sentence what is the relevance of your post for Linux
users.

[nospam]

Post by Arlen Holder

Post by nospam
non-answer.

Alan Baker,

fail #1.

Post by Arlen Holder
*The answer was provided _multiple_ times in this thread alone.*

fail #2.

an answer was *never* provided. just a bunch of hollow and
unsupportable claims.

[Arlen Holder]

Post by nospam
an answer was *never* provided. just a bunch of hollow and
unsupportable claims.

Adults can do two things apologists never seem to be able to do:
a. Adults form a belief system which is _based_ on the facts
b. Adults don't brazenly deny facts they haven't even bothered to read

Why is it that you child-like apologists can't find the simplest facts?
o And that you apologists brazenly deny facts you didn't even read?

And yet, _every_ adult who looked instantly found them.
o It's only you childish apologists who are completely _immune_ to facts.

HINT: Search for the following, which all the _adults_ easily found!
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/PLzFxNis7jk/PiVqAhGoAgAJ>
[Note it was explained _many_ times; but apologists are immune to facts!]

verbatim paste

1. Without iTunes installed on Windows, plug any number of iPods into the
USB ports, and then simply those iPods with any number of MP3 songs you
want, from anywhere you want, until you can't fit any more songs on the
iPods.

2. Then install iTunes, and try the same thing (watch what happens).

HINT: *You have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without it.*

[nospam]

ftfy

[Arlen Holder]

ftfy

You apologists never cease to act like children when confronted with facts.
1. There is _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without.
2. There is _less_ security with iTunes, than without.

[None]

Post by Arlen Holder
a. Adults form a belief system which is _based_ on the facts

Adults don’t carry on with inappropriate cross posting after being asked to
stop.

[Ken Blake]

Post by None

Post by Arlen Holder
a. Adults form a belief system which is _based_ on the facts

Adults don’t carry on with inappropriate cross posting after being asked to
stop.

Adults don't reply to trolls. They killfile them.

[Alan Browne]

Post by Ken Blake
Adults don't reply to trolls. They killfile them.

+1

[None]

Post by Ken Blake

Post by None

Post by Arlen Holder
a. Adults form a belief system which is _based_ on the facts

Adults don’t carry on with inappropriate cross posting after being asked to
stop.

Adults don't reply to trolls. They killfile them.

Normally yes, but Arlen keeps changing the spelling of his name to break
through killfiles, I believe Hell has a special room with his name on it.

[Ken Blake]

Post by None

Post by Ken Blake

Post by None

Post by Arlen Holder
a. Adults form a belief system which is _based_ on the facts

Adults don’t carry on with inappropriate cross posting after being asked to
stop.

Adults don't reply to trolls. They killfile them.

Normally yes, but Arlen keeps changing the spelling of his name to break
through killfiles, I believe Hell has a special room with his name on it.

Yes, but if anyone doubted whether he was a troll, that should convince
them. Changing the spelling of your name is one of the marks of a troll.

But I can killfile the new name as easily as he can add it. He gets past
my killfile only once when he does that.

[Arlen Holder]

Post by Ken Blake
Yes, but if anyone doubted whether he was a troll, that should convince
them. Changing the spelling of your name is one of the marks of a troll.
But I can killfile the new name as easily as he can add it. He gets past
my killfile only once when he does that.

To spare the _adults_ on this newsgroup the indignity, this is my _last_
post in this thread to the trolls listed in the signature addendum.

FACT:
*I proved, with facts, the point that iTunes provides less functionality*
*Apologists proved to not even _read_ the cites before denying all facts*
*Common worthless trolls like _Ken Blake_ & _None_ proved to be morons.*

I was gonna ignore None & Ken Blake both of whom are known trolls, but I
just want to point out how _stupid_ both of them easily prove to be, after
their second post of worthless value, both of which proved they're idiots.

FACT:
o Ken Blake is an utter moron (see proof below).
o None is an utter moron (see proof below).

I don't mind good repartee ... but these two morons are like children.
o *It's child's play to prove _Ken Blake_ & _None_ are utter morons.*

Both the *trolls Ken Blake & None are so stupid they don't realize what
they call "spelling changes" is a troll trolling me (e.g., "Arlen Trolder"
is clearly the work of a troll - just read what he posts).

FACT:
Both the troll "Ken Blake" & "None" whooshed on what adults would know!
o *Those two trolls, _Ken Blake_ & _None_ are literally _that_ stupid!*

And that's a fact any _adult_ can easily see by what they just posted!

While it's normal for _adults_ to easily realize these "spelling changes"
are that of a troll, it's always instructive to note how fantastically
_stupid_ both None and Ken Blake prove to be.

Since I'm rather well educated, and of at least normal intelligence, I will
lay out the simple proof how _stupid_ both None & Ken Blake prove to be:

a. Both fell for the troll who goes by names such as "Arlen Trolder".
b. Neither has _ever_ added even one iota of technical value to this thread
c. Neither _ever_ adds technical on-topic value to _any_ thread!

The list of well-known trolls are in the signature below, but to the point
of this thread, since I only speak facts, the factual proof of the two
statements is easy.

1. The simplest proof possible that you have less functionality with iTunes
than without, is the simple test of plugging in any number of iPods from
any number of locations to any number of Windows PCs, to transfer MP3 songs
from any of them, simultaneously or asynchronously, any way you like, using
Sharepod, which is not installed on Windows, but just sitting on the iPod.

Then, install iTunes, and try the same thing.

2. The simplest proof possible that you have less security with iTunes
installed than without is the simple comprehension of the news cites in
this thread, which proved that iTunes was not only taken over by hackers,
but that iTunes was _never_ tested for common faults, for years on end.
o *A zero-day vulnerability in iCloud and iTunes on Windows PCs*
*allowed hackers to install ransomware undetected*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/GLAOdURgHwo/xqBaLUE-DAAJ>

Note these are FACTS.
o Note the fact apologists simply brazenly deny all facts they don't like.
o Note the fact, as an _adult_, I provided _proof_ of the facts
o Note the fact the apologists don't even _read_ the cites

Note the fact *the two recent trolls, None & Ken Blake*, not only added
_zero_ value to this thread, but both trolls have never once in their
entire lives added on-topic technical value.

In summary, as an adult, I provided FACTS which back up these statements:
1. You have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without.
2. You have _less_ security with iTunes, than without.

The trolls can only troll and the apologists can only deny facts without
even _reading_ the cites which back up the facts.

Any adult can see this, and no adult objected to the facts.
o Only the apologists & trolls object to facts.

--
For your edification, the well known trolls who add _zero_ on-topic
technical value, in addition to Ken Blake & None, are listed below.

Apple, Linux, Windows:
o Alan Baker <***@ness.biz>
o Alan Browne <***@blackhole.com>
o Ammammata <***@tiscalinet.it> (not an apologist but ignorant)
o Andreas Rutishauser <***@macandreas.ch>
o Barry Margolin <***@alum.mit.edu> (educated & yet immune to fact)
o ***@Onramp.net
o Beedle <***@dont-email.me>
o "Boris T." <***@lsd.invalid> (a common troll)
o Carlos E.R. <***@es.invalid> (it's a crap shoot with Carlos)
o Char Jackson <***@none.invalid> (never posts as an adult)
o Chris <***@gmail.com>
o Cindy Hamilton <***@yahoo.com> (never posts any value)
o "Cybe R. Wizard" <***@WizardsTower.invalid> (always a child)
o Dan Purgert <***@djph.net> (sometimes, but only rarely posts as an adult)
o David Catterall <***@eircom.net> (a common troll)
o Davoud <***@sky.net>
o Diesel <***@privacy.net> (aka Dustin Cook, mentally scary)
o Ed Pawlowski <***@snet.xxx> (poser, makes believe he has knowledge)
o Elden <***@moondog.org>
o Elfin <***@gmail.com> (aka Lloyd, aka Lloyd Parsons)
o Fox's Mercantile <***@att.net> Jeff (devoid of redeemable value)
o "G. B" <***@gb.com>
o Hawk <***@gmail.com> (literally posts what children post)
o Hemidactylus <***@allspamis.invalid>
o Idaho Homo Joe <***@aol.com> (worthless common moron troll)
o James <***@yahoomail.org>
o Jasen Betts <***@xnet.co.nz> (mostly is an adult but often is a child)
o John Corliss <***@yahoo.com> (can only comprehend 1 syllable words)
o John Gabriel <***@nospam.net> (can only troll)
o joe <***@domain.invalid> (rarely, but sometimes posts as an adult would)
o Joerg Lorenz <***@gmx.ch>
o Johan <***@nospam.invalid>
o John Doe <***@message.header> worthless posts always
o John McWilliams <***@comcast.net> (doesn't comprehend adult topics)
o John-Del <***@gmail.com>
o Jolly Roger <***@pobox.com>
o Ken Blake <***@invalidemail.com>
o Ken Hart <***@frontier.com> (sometimes posts on linux as an adult)
o Lewis <***@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
o Lloyd <***@gmail.com> (aka "Elfin")
o Lloyd Parsons <***@gmail.com> (aka "Elfin")
o Lucifer <***@bigpond.com> (plays silly semantic games)
o Meanie <***@gmail.com>
o micky <***@rushpost.com>
o Shemp14 <***@outlook.com>
o nospam <***@nospam.invalid> (bullshitter par excellence)
o Nil <***@REMOVETHIScomcast.net>
o Panthera Tigris Altaica <***@outlook.com>
o Paul Raymond (aka porn king) <***@nospam.net> (porn obsessed)
o "***@aol.com" <***@gmail.com> Peter Wieck, Melrose Park, PA
o Rene Lamontagne <***@shaw.ca> (always posts as a child would post)
o roctb <***@mouse-potato.com> Russian poster hates all facts
o Roger Blake <***@iname.invalid> wholly immune to basic facts
o "R.Wieser" <***@not.available> (aka Rudy Wieser) (always a child)
o Sam E <***@be.email.invalid>
o Sandman <***@sandman.net> (hates facts)
o Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>
o Shadow <***@dow.br>
o ***@outlook.com
o Snit <***@gallopinginsanity.com> (aka Michael Glasser, troll #1)
o Tim Streater <***@greenbee.net>
o Tim Taylor <***@binford-tool.edu>
o trader_4 <***@optonline.net> (pretends to know things)
o Wade Garrett <***@cooler.net>
o William Poaster <***@dev.null> (I can't find any post ever of any value)
o Wolffan <***@zoho.com> (can only post childish remarks, ~BD~ sock)
o Wolf K <***@sympatico.ca> (always posts as a child)
o Your Name <***@YourISP.com>
o Zaghadka <***@hotmail.com>
o % <***@gmail.com> (always worthless posts)
o et al.

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Mon, 3 Feb 2020 03:58:02 -0000 (UTC)
Once again an invitation to crush your head? Glad to oblige.

10,000 tutorials you've written? Not a single living soul believes
that for an instant.

Message-ID: <po4626$vpu$***@news.mixmin.net>

Each time you sidestep or ignore the disclosing of your lies you show
yourself to be the lying duplicitous idiot that you are, Arlene Holdout.

You show yourself to be in possession of the brain of an infant. Give
it back! Only you can survive sans brain.

Here, once again, is a pointer to the biggest lie I know of that you've
so far told:
Message-ID: <po4626$vpu$***@news.mixmin.net>
You know the one; it's where you said that you've written TEN THOUSAND
tutorials.

Shut me up, Arlom, merely by showing that searchable list of tutorials
you've written. Hell, just show the list.

The instant that you show a viable list of TEN THOUSAND tutorials that
YOU have written I will shut up about it, I guarantee and promise.

Be a man and 'fess up to being a liar otherwise.

Failing to do either, you are just and only a liar. ...and not much of
a man, either.

A pathetic excuse for the worst aspects of a worthless and bad man is
what you are; not ever good enough to serve as a bad example.


Arelene Holdout said:
----------
"I have likely written over ten thousand tutorials, where at my last
company, I wrote over five thousand alone. On the Internet, I don't know
how many I have, but if you assume that I write one a day sometimes,
and at least one a week, I have many thousands "

I say that you are a liar and a poor one, easily seen through, at that.
Shut me up; prove me wrong.

[Arlen Holder]

Any way to copy w10 jpgs over USB to iphone8?
just thought to ask.

You have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without it.

I have lots of iPads & Android phones...
o Where I copy anything I want to anywhere I want anytime I want
o Whether that's iOS or Android or Windows or Linux (or all at once)
o Read/Write... I treat the iOS device as a USB stick for this purpose

Which is why I call iTunes an abomination
o Because you have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without it.

In summary:

1. You get the most power simply by dual booting to Linux (with Windows)...
o *Using iOS mobile phone or iPad as a read/write USB device*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/aaBnSphtefI>

2. If you're a masochist, feel free to use the iTunes abomination...
o *Is there any functionality iTunes does, that can't be done, better, WITHOUT iTunes?*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/F-gWC05h1xQ>

3. Which, as usual for Apple, Apple has _never_ tested sufficiently...
o *A zero-day vulnerability in iCloud and iTunes on Windows PCs*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/hftPQAEZr_g>

See also:
o *Freeware alternative to iTunes that doesn't delete all your songs constantly*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/VxKFg4EB6wE>

[nospam]

You have _more_ functionality with iTunes, than without it.

ftfy

it's common sense that *adding* an app *adds* functionality that was
not previously available, which is normally the reason a new app would
be installed.

it does *not* remove functionality already present.

in the case of itunes, it makes many tasks much easier, sometimes
dramatically so. however, like any app, using it is entirely optional,
and a user can choose to do things without itunes if they prefer, even
if it requires more effort.

[Arlen Holder]

Post by nospam
ftfy

Hi nospam,

Play your silly games...
o They work rather well for you on the Apple newsgroups...

But your silly games don't work at all on non-Apple newsgroups
o You Apple apologists fabricate functionality that simply doesn't exist

*Only on Apple newsgroups, does anyone _believe_ your fabrications.*
o But on the adult OS newsgroups, you get your head handed to you, nospam.

Simply because people on Android, Linux, & Windows newsgroups
o believe in facts.

You apologists are so used to claiming imaginary functionality
o Where you apologists modify what I said, just to respond to facts.

There are three types of Apple Apologists, where you're TYPE I.
o Type I === always parrot MARKETING (but don't actually believe all of it)
o Type II === simply ignorant of what is _outside_ of the Apple ecosystem
o Type III === actually _believes_ everything MARKETING feeds them

No matter what type of Apologists, you only have 7 responses to fact:
o *What are the common well-verified psychological traits*
*of the Apple Apologists on this newsgroup?*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/18ARDsEOPzM>

One of those responses is what you just did, nospam, which is to fabricate
an imaginary strawman that you created yourself, just so then you could
come up with a response (because you have no adult response to facts).

Post by nospam
it's common sense that *adding* an app *adds* functionality that was
not previously available, which is normally the reason a new app would
be installed.

All you _can_ do, nospam, is parrot bullshit Apple MARKETING dogma.
o You forget we discussed adding iTunes actually _reduces_ functionality

o *Is there any functionality iTunes does, that can't be done, better, WITHOUT iTunes?*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/F-gWC05h1xQ>

Post by nospam
it does *not* remove functionality already present.

You constantly fabricate imaginary functionality for Apple products.
o At the same time, you ignore the huge iTunes abomination detriments.

As just one example, *iTunes adds vulnerabilities all over Windows!*
o Which, even Google proved, Apple has _never_ sufficiently tested for!

As another, iTunes habitually wipes out all your songs because of its
Draconian use model.

As another example, iTunes doesn't allow you to simply slide files over USB
both ways into and out of the visible user space on _any_ iOS device on the
planet (you don't have to even own the device), like the tutorial I wrote
allows...

Post by nospam
in the case of itunes, it makes many tasks much easier, sometimes
dramatically so. however, like any app, using it is entirely optional,
and a user can choose to do things without itunes if they prefer, even
if it requires more effort.

I realize, nospam, most of the time you don't even _believe_ what you claim
o Which is why you're a _different_ kind of apologist than the others

The other two types of apologists actually _believe_ what they write.
o Type I apologist === nospam is the only one in this category (so far)
o Type II apologist === people like Alan Browne who are factually ignorant
o Type III apologist === people like Alan Baker & Jolly Roger - DK quadrant

Given you are much like an Apple MARKETING twin, in that you don't even
believe most of what you claim, I'll simply provide links to the facts.

Where adults will note I have quite a lot of experience with you apologists
o Apologists _hate_ facts because facts don't fit into your belief system.

FACTS:
o *Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files back and forth over USB at 7GB per minute speeds using 100% native devices (no proprietary software needed)*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/WqIDiVbawRs/pwxzu7LMCAAJ>

o *How to read/write access iOS file systems on Ubuntu/Windows over USB cable*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/z_KXY4IHLe0/OaFqueaaCAAJ>

o *How to easily archive your iOS device and/or how to use your iOS device as a free USB stick (read & write)?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/5hE4byjF930/NLdxBd8NCwAJ>

o *What's a good way to offload storage on an iPad directly to a 64GB USB flash drive?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/7OrCvaZxpGs/BU9cXgaNAQAJ>

o *Easily turn an iOS device into a read/write USB stick - for free - in a few minutes*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/GkGHMGnvKkY/IzmteZ1JCwAJ>

o *Why doesn't Apple just let you manage your iOS file system natively on Windows?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/WjeGznahZwc/O9Ob5F87EQAJ>

o *How to read/write access iOS file systems on Ubuntu/Windows over USB cable*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/IFC52JXBQ1c/siiB7o49CgAJ>

o *How to transfer iPad photos/videos to/from Linux/Windows over Wi-Fi LAN?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/YtpKpDhWm_s/1z7AO3jQCAAJ>

o *Easiest way to move saved data from iPad mini to the Costco $300 128GB iPad 9.7" device?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/Wq-dZKnXO3A/wL8LfzKPAgAJ>

o *How to work around the new Apple iOS7 infinite loop of mistrust bug on Linux?*
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/_e0czhOYSHo/WT_gxkGBD9cJ>
etc.

[Richard Kettlewell]

Post by None

Post by Ken Blake

Post by None

Post by Arlen Holder
a. Adults form a belief system which is _based_ on the facts

Adults don’t carry on with inappropriate cross posting after being asked to
stop.

Adults don't reply to trolls. They killfile them.

Normally yes, but Arlen keeps changing the spelling of his name to break
through killfiles, I believe Hell has a special room with his name on it.

So killfile them again.

Personally it’s reached the point where I temporarily killfile everyone
who responds to them, too.

[Bernd Froehlich]

On 3. Feb 2020 at 11:03:34 CET, "Richard Kettlewell"

Post by Richard Kettlewell
So killfile them again.
Personally it’s reached the point where I temporarily killfile everyone
who responds to them, too.

+1

The trollfeeders are almost as bad a problem as the trolls themselves.

[David]

Post by Richard Kettlewell

Post by None

Post by Ken Blake

Post by None

Post by Arlen Holder
a. Adults form a belief system which is _based_ on the facts

Adults don’t carry on with inappropriate cross posting after being asked to
stop.

Adults don't reply to trolls. They killfile them.

Normally yes, but Arlen keeps changing the spelling of his name to break
through killfiles, I believe Hell has a special room with his name on it.

So killfile them again.
Personally it’s reached the point where I temporarily killfile everyone
who responds to them, too.

FYI (a copy/paste)

Objective Troll Criteria

What defines a troll? That would seem to be an odd question to say the
least - but sometime you meet trolls that for reasons unknown refuses to
acknowledge that they are trolls, as if that somehow would affect their
credibility or something. Obviously, these peoples credibility is
already long lost. So, the idea is that you need a list of criteria for
someone being a troll to just check for ever such person you come
across, and to show them just how well they fit the criteria.
Note, however, that this isn't a definitive list of criteria and you
can't really make any conclusion made solely on checking off this list.
Someone matching just one item in the list isn't a troll, but someone
matching most of them most likely is a troll.

What is a troll?

Well, I suppose it's handy to define just what we're trying to determine
here first. A troll is, in usenet terms, someone who trolls. The word
"trolling" comes not from the unsavory creature generally found living
under bridges, but rather the act of trolling for fish.
So, the definition of a troll is easily defined as someone who posts to
get a specific type of reply, but that's way too loose a criteria to
apply generally. Especially when you're dealing with someone that will
try to obfuscate the matters by stating simply that "don't we all post
to get specific replies?" whilst trying to ignore the distinction
between the two types of replies on is after. So, we need that list -
and here is is. The example troll in this article is a "he", and will be
referred to as "he" or "him".

Why this criteria?

A poster in a newsgroup asked if there was such a thing as an Objective
Troll Criteria and asked me to provide it for him, so I did.

http://usenet.sandman.net/pages/trollcriteria/TrollCriteria

[Johnny]

On 2 Feb 2020 23:16:03 GMT

Post by None

Post by Ken Blake

Post by None

Post by Arlen Holder
a. Adults form a belief system which is _based_ on the facts

Adults don’t carry on with inappropriate cross posting after being
asked to stop.

Adults don't reply to trolls. They killfile them.

Normally yes, but Arlen keeps changing the spelling of his name to
break through killfiles, I believe Hell has a special room with his
name on it.

If you can filter using a phrase in the headers, mixmin.net. You won't
see him or anyone that replies to him.

[William Poaster]

Post by Johnny
On 2 Feb 2020 23:16:03 GMT

Post by None

Post by Ken Blake

Post by None

Adults can do two things apologists never seem to be able to do: a.
Adults form a belief system which is _based_ on the facts

Adults don’t carry on with inappropriate cross posting after being
asked to stop.

Adults don't reply to trolls. They killfile them.

Normally yes, but Arlen keeps changing the spelling of his name to break
through killfiles, I believe Hell has a special room with his name on it.

If you can filter using a phrase in the headers, mixmin.net. You won't
see him or anyone that replies to him.

+1

BTDT so it doesn't matter haow many times he nymshifts in a pathetic
attempt to get round killfilters.

[Ken Blake]

Post by William Poaster

Post by Johnny
On 2 Feb 2020 23:16:03 GMT

Post by None

Post by Ken Blake

Post by None

Adults can do two things apologists never seem to be able to do: a.
Adults form a belief system which is _based_ on the facts

Adults don’t carry on with inappropriate cross posting after being
asked to stop.

Adults don't reply to trolls. They killfile them.

Normally yes, but Arlen keeps changing the spelling of his name to break
through killfiles, I believe Hell has a special room with his name on it.

If you can filter using a phrase in the headers, mixmin.net. You won't
see him or anyone that replies to him.

+1
BTDT so it doesn't matter haow many times he nymshifts in a pathetic
attempt to get round killfilters.

Can that be done in Thunderbird? If so, I don't know how. Can you, or
someone else, help?

[Paul]

Post by Ken Blake

Post by William Poaster

Post by Johnny
On 2 Feb 2020 23:16:03 GMT

Post by None

Post by Arlen Holder

Post by None

Post by Arlen Holder
Adults can do two things apologists never seem to be able

to do: a.

Post by None

Post by Arlen Holder
Adults form a belief system which is _based_ on the facts

Post by None
Adults don’t carry on with inappropriate cross posting after

being

Post by None
asked to stop.

Post by Arlen Holder
Adults don't reply to trolls. They killfile them.

Post by None
Normally yes, but Arlen keeps changing the spelling of his

name to break
through killfiles, I believe Hell has a special room with his name on it.

If you can filter using a phrase in the headers, mixmin.net. You won't
see him or anyone that replies to him.

+1
BTDT so it doesn't matter haow many times he nymshifts in a pathetic
attempt to get round killfilters.

Can that be done in Thunderbird? If so, I don't know how. Can you, or
someone else, help?

The Thunderbird "Message Filter" feature was written perhaps 10 years ago.

There had been an outstanding enhancement request, to add a filter.

Nobody really paid any attention to the request for around eleven years.

Then ten years ago, "Joshua Cranmer" decided to give it a go.

"Bug 16913 Opened 21 years ago Closed 12 years ago"

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=16913

"Cursory examination shows that Pan uses only XOVER,
LIST NEWSGROUPS, LIST, and ARTICLE for getting articles.

Based on that information, my current plan of action is
to get article headers in one of three ways:

XHDR
XPAT
XOVER
HEAD

optimally using XHDR and falling back on HEAD if nothing else works...
Relevant RFCs: 977 (original), 2980 (common extensions), 3977 (modern).
"

"Commonly, XOVER is accessed then XHDR if a filter requires a header
not found in XOVER. That makes scoring on XHDR headers "expensive"
in that it takes two actions instead of one."

"My idea is to change the transition NNTP_XOVER -> NNTP_FIGURE_NEXT_CHUNK to:

NNTP_XOVER -> NNTP_XHDR_PROCESS -> NNTP_XHDR_SEND
| ^ |
V | V
NNTP_FIGURE_NEXT_CHUNK NNTP_XHDR <- NNTP_XHDR_RESPONSE

*******

Here is a picture of how to add a new header field type,
using the Customize option in the Tools : Message Filter.

I picked as my example, adding "Injection-Info" as a new
field type.

Loading Image...

I haven't tried a lot of this filtering jazz, so enjoy
your experiments :-) I don't know if they got it working
on incoming, or it only works as a post-filter. Some filter
I set up a few years back on some flood, only seemed to
post-filter (TB fetches messages, then you run the filter
over the box).

Summary: I never knew they worked on this so long ago.

Paul

[Arlen Holder]

Post by Alan Baker
What functionality do you lose?

Post by Arlen Holder
2. The fact is, *you have less security with iTunes, than without*.

In what way?
Don't type endlessly about cites not read...

Alan,

Do you realize how _any_ conversation with Apple apologists goes?
1. An adult states a simple fact
2. The apologist incessantly brazenly deny all facts they simply don't like
3. The adult provides references and/or examples backing up those facts
4. The apologists always fail to even _read_ those examples and/or cites
5. The adult _repeats_ the facts, cites, & references multiple times
6. The apologists continue to refute the facts sans reading the cites
... this goes on forever ...

Notice, in the end, two observations:
a. The adult provided the facts, examples, & cites from the beginning
b. The apologist never provides a single fact backing up their claims

What does this tell us:
A. The adult belief system is arguably based on reproducible facts
B. The apologists' belief system is based on exactly zero (0) facts

Happens all the time on Usenet, but more often on the Apple newsgroups.
o It doesn't happen anywhere nearly as often on the adult OS newsgroups

[Arlen Holder]

ftfy

Adults will note apologists have 7 responses to fact
o None of which are adult.

o Why do the apologists like nospam turn into instant children in the face of mere facts (e.g., ftfy)?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/TZbkkqS3jv4/3_TTHgRpBwAJ>

[Paul Raymond (aka Porn King)]

Post by Arlen Holder
o None of which are adult.

Hey Arlene,

I'll give you adult link. Try this first:

https://www.xxx.com

Put this link on your monthly updated list of open source porn sites for
adults.

[Arlen Trolder]

Arlen Holder wrote:

::translated::

"I have not received any feeding from this thread for four long months.
I will now bump this thread in an attempt to restart the feeding.

Just like I do in many of my other 'bait line' threads."

[None]

Post by Arlen Holder
o Key lessons learned using iTunes on Windows today...
"If I ever update iPadOS again, I'll do it over the air,
not via the [Windows] computer [with iTunes]!"

Why are you cross posting this in alt.os.linux? What possible interest does
Linux have as an os have with iTunes on Windows?

[Lewis]

[ idiocy ]

Post by None
Why are you cross posting this in alt.os.linux? What possible interest does
Linux have as an os have with iTunes on Windows?

Because he is an attention-whore troll.

[Arlen Holder]

Post by Lewis
Because he is an attention-whore troll.

Lewis,

I've advised you this many times, this week alone.

*You really shouldn't post what your brain thinks, Lewis.*
o Seriously.

You proved again, you completely whooshed on the facts, Lewis.
o You apologists call all facts "trolls" & "lies", by "Liars".

What's interesting is how _immune_ to facts apologists always prove to be.
o It's what makes you child-like apologists exactly what you prove to be.

HINT: Linux _is_ the Windows' solution (as explained many many times).
o Yet, apologists always prove to be fantastically _immune_ to facts.

[Arlen Holder]

Post by None
Why are you cross posting this in alt.os.linux? What possible interest does
Linux have as an os have with iTunes on Windows?

*Every time you post, None, you prove to be _ignorant_ of the facts.*

As always, you completely missed even the obvious facts, as usual, None.
o Apple hasn't polluted Linux with iTunes; so, on Linux, it just works.

On Windows, when you add iTunes, you get _less_ functionality.
o Yet, on Linux, without iTunes, you have full functionality.

Did you not read (nor comprehend?) the oft-cited thread, None?
o Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files back and forth over USB
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.os.linux/WqIDiVbawRs/pwxzu7LMCAAJ>

Hint: On Linux, it just works.

[Adam]

Post by Arlen Holder

Post by None
Why are you cross posting this in alt.os.linux? What possible interest does
Linux have as an os have with iTunes on Windows?

*Every t

You didn't even answer his question. He asked you "Why are you cross
posting this in alt.os.linux?" Answer this question only as we are NOT
interested in any of your so called tutorials.

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Adam

Post by Arlen Holder

Post by None
Why are you cross posting this in alt.os.linux? What possible
interest does Linux have as an os have with iTunes on Windows?

*Every t

You didn't even answer his question. He asked you "Why are you cross
posting this in alt.os.linux?" Answer this question only as we are
NOT interested in any of your so called tutorials.

Everything he posts is a troll. And cross posting to irrelevant
newsgroups is what trolls do. I'm surprised this has to be explained to
anyone.

[Arlen Holder]

Post by Jolly Roger
Everything he posts is a troll. And cross posting to irrelevant
newsgroups is what trolls do. I'm surprised this has to be explained to
anyone.

Hi Jolly Roger,

I _love_ when you post, because you're the quintessential apologist!
o *You call all facts you simply don't like, to be "trolls".*

An adult conversation is just not possible with you apologists.
o *Where I provided _multiple_ well-documented cites, proving the facts.*
1. *You have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without.*
2. *You have _less_ security with iTunes, than without.*

Those are simply facts.
o Well cited; well proven; obvious to _adults_ who read & comprehend facts.

And yet, you provide exactly zero (0) facts supporting your belief system!
o It's because apologists' belief systems often prove to be devoid of fact.

Why are apologists so deathly afraid of facts?
o I don't know why.

Having studied apologists for years, I suspect facts _threaten_ you.
o Facts instantly DESTROY your entire (imaginary) belief system.

It's as if a fifth grade bully still believes in Santa Claus
o Where marketing (brilliantly) provides the illusion of Santa Claus

In the case of Jolly Roger, he _only_ believes in the MARKETING illusions.
o So Jolly Roger reacts by calling all actual facts to be "trolls".

Because facts instantly DESTROY the (brilliant) marketing illusion.
o In this case, facts instantly DESTROY iTunes' illusion of functionality.

The facts remain:
1. You have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without.
2. You have _less_ security with iTunes, than without.

The fact apologists hate facts doesn't change the fact they are facts.

[Arlen Holder]

Post by Adam
You didn't even answer his question. He asked you "Why are you cross
posting this in alt.os.linux?" Answer this question only as we are NOT
interested in any of your so called tutorials.

Hi Adam,

It's morons like you that exasperate adults who own adult cognitive skills.

Please realize that the fact you don't comprehend facts...
o Does not make those facts wrong.

It just proves you are a moron.
o *How did you _not_ comprehend that Linux _is_ the Windows solution?*

At the risk of having to repeat the obvious (which the cites _clearly_
explained in detail) to morons like Adam just proved to be...

First hint for morons, like "Adam" just proved to be.
o *Linux _reads_ the dual-boot Windows filesystem fantastically!*

Second hint for morons like "Adam" just proved to be:
o *Linux _reads_ and _writes_ the iOS filesystem perfectly!*

Third hint for morons like "Adam" just proved to be:
o *Linux doesn't natively run iTunes; on Linux, iOS access just works.*

Please, if you're a moron like Adam just proved to be, _read_ and
_comprehend_ the given cites.

The fact morons like Adam exist, is kind of scary.
o People like Adam prove to be fantastically _immune_ to facts.

I realize only people with adult cognition will comprehend this, but, the
facts remain what the facts clearly show, which is:
1. You have _less_ functionality with iTunes, than without, and,
2. You have _less_ security with iTunes, than without.

The fact you don't comprehend facts doesn't change that they're facts.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2020-01-30, Arlen Holder <***@is.invalid> wrote:
Subject: Re: Is there any functionality the iTunes abomination does, for a dual-boot Win/Ubuntu PC that can't be done, better, WITHOUT iTunes?

Ubuntu has been free of itunes since forver. I don't think there any
further discussing needed on that subject that needs to be
cross-posted into alt.os.linux

[Lewis]

Post by Jasen Betts
Subject: Re: Is there any functionality the iTunes abomination does, for a dual-boot Win/Ubuntu PC that can't be done, better, WITHOUT iTunes?
Ubuntu has been free of itunes since forver. I don't think there any
further discussing needed on that subject that needs to be
cross-posted into alt.os.linux

But attention-whore trolls with tony feeble brains don't care that iTunes
doesn’t exist in any flavor of linux. He gets a widdle chubby from
posting idiotic shit to groups that do not want him and obviously
masturbates whenever anyone replies to him.

Killfile him and move on, deprive him of his perverse pleasures.

Or, imaging him clawing at the keyboard one-handed ever time he posts,
if that's your thing.

Arlen is so fucking stupid, he constantly replies to people who *never*
read his messages.

[Arlen Holder]

He gets a widdle chubby from posting idiotic shit to groups
He obviously masturbates whenever anyone replies to him.
Or, imaging him clawing at the keyboard one-handed ever time he posts

Lewis,

*You really should not post what your brain thinks*.
o *Seriously*.

*Your child-like fixation on masturbation is disturbing to adults.*
o Every sentence from you is about masturbation, Lewis.

Seriously.
o You should _not_ be posting what your brain thinks, Lewis.

Why do you apologists react to mere facts with instant childish hatred?
o I don't know why.

I've been studying apologists for years, where you always prove me right.
o You have only 7 responses to fact; none of which are adult.

Your basic response is to brazenly deny facts, calling all facts "lies".
o Another basic response is you supremely _hate_ the mere bearer of facts.

Why?
o I don't know why.

*I think it's as simple as facts _DESTROY_ your imaginary belief system.*
o Hence, any bearer of facts, is a danger to your entire belief system.

It's as if I told a fifth-grade bully that his Santa Claus doesn't exist.

[Arlen Holder]

Adding any Apple software to a PC is a death sentence for your security
(IMHO)...

Simply because Apple repeatedly doesn't even test their own iOS/MacOS,
let alone other OS's, for even the most obvious vulnerabilities.

o *Yet again, Apple didn't test its Windows software*
*for longstanding common vulnerabilities*
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/JVI-6A3ko38>

[nospam]

o *Yet again, Microsoft didn't test its Windows software*

ftfy

<https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2020/06/09/microsoft-windows-1
0-update-warnings-printer-external-display-internet-connection-free-wind
ows-10-upgrade/>
In new support documents published this week, Microsoft has
revealed that further ŒKnown Issues¹ in its latest Windows 10 updates
can break printers, cause external displays to go black and still
break Internet connections problems the company first recognized
last month. There is also a serious 'wormable' security flaw which
requires patching ASAP. So who is and isn¹t affected?
...
06/11 Update: Microsoft has confirmed a serious security
vulnerability which is capable of exploiting a network communications
protocol used in multiple versions of Windows 10 (1903, 1909 and
2004) and Windows Server. The vulnerability is wormable and
BleepingComputer revealed it could be used for data theft.
...
For printers, Microsoft states that users running Windows 10 version
1903 or later (that¹s all versions since May 2019) may find their USB
printer port goes ³missing² if they disconnect the printer then shut
down Windows.
...
For external displays, Microsoft has a similarly broad problem. The
company explains that any laptop or tablet with a touch screen that
is running Windows 10 version 2004 (also known as the ŒMay 2020
update¹), can cause an external monitor to flicker and/or go black
when you connect to it and duplicate your display.
...
Lastly, Microsoft has confirmed in its June 2020 Windows 10 security
updates, that there is still no fix for broken Internet connectivity
for anyone using an 4G LTE modem (such as the USB sticks sold by
carriers around the world) and running Windows 10 1903 and 1909.

<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-2004-were-already-looking-into-
these-10-issues-says-microsoft/>
So far, Microsoft has listed 10 open investigations into a range of
bugs affecting peripherals, Bluetooth, mouse input, and GPU driver
and display issues.    

<https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-2004-glitch-microsoft-admits-b
ug-breaks-storage-spaces-corrupts-files/>
Microsoft has confirmed one more problem that could happen after
installing Windows 10 version 2004: its RAID-like data-protection
software, Storage Spaces, might malfunction. 

<https://www.itworldcanada.com/article/dont-install-the-windows-10-updat
e-2004-until-these-issues-are-fixed/431484>
Windows 10 has had a turbulent update track record since its launch.
Examples of its critical update mishaps extend way back to October
2018 when Microsoft retracted the Windows 10 1809 update. Several
users reported that after upgrading to 2018, the content in their
custom Users directory, which includes My Documents, Videos, and
Pictures, were permanently erased without recovery options.

[Arlen Holder]

o *Yet again, Microsoft didn't test its Windows software*

ftfy

By now, we can predict every move by Apple apologists such as nospam
o Simply because they have only 7 responses to facts they don't like
(none of them adult)

For the permanent Usenet record, notice nospam pulled the classic Apple
apologists' move of blaming everyone but Apple for Apple's faults.

Doublespeak
1. On the one hand, they claim "Apple is better", and, yet,
2. When they see the truth, they respond "Apple is the same as Microsoft".

o Why do apologists desperately try to shift the blame of Apple bugs
to Google & Microsoft?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/LOQx1Ok-79c>

Basically, nobody on the Windows groups is bamboozled by Microsoft
o Hence, nobody blames Apple when Microsoft ships a vulnerability.

And yet, almost always, Apple users are completely bamboozled by Apple
o Such that they try to have it both ways
(a) Apple is better than Microsoft, and yet,
(b) When facts are told, they claim Apple is the same as Microsoft.

While nospam doesn't believe a word he says, this is the typical Apple
response to blame anyone but Apple for Apple's own faults.
o Nobody on Ubuntu blamed Apple for Canonical's faults
o Nobody on Android blames Apple for Google's faults
o Nobody on Windows blames Microsoft for Apple's faults.

It's _only_ the Apple Apologists who blame everyone but Apple
o For faults that are clearly Apple's faults.

To wit...

*Yet again, it's a death sentence for PC security to load Apple software*
o Simply because Apple has _never_ sufficiently tested their software

HINT: Apple users actually _believe_ the MARKETING hype.
o Whereas, for example, Windows users are smarter than that.

[Jasen Betts]

On 2020-06-20, Well known internet troll "Arlen Holder"

Post by Arlen Holder

o *Yet again, Microsoft didn't test its Windows software*

ftfy

By now, we can predict every move by

[rest of garbage delete unread]

@nospam be aware that A.H. is posting copies of this reply to other
newsgroups (by which I mean news groups not seen in the newsgroups
header of the reply).


Also be aware that the original the message was off topic
in most of the groups it was posted to, please trim inapropriate
newsgroups from replies.

It seems A.H. is bored again and trying to start another shitstorm.

[Arlen Holder]

Like trying to 'simply' copy some music files to an iPod (yes I have one).
Android - simply drag and drop into phone's music folder. On iPod, nup -
have to use the worst and most unintuitive app in the world, iTunes, or
a 3rd party application to do it.

Hi geoff,

Regarding this recent thread:
o Transferring Photos from iPhone to Windows 10 laptop and "Device is unreachable"
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/8TQk81xCjVw>

Please look at this screenshot I took for you just now to prove the point:
o <Loading Image...>

Interestingly, this is a _classic_ case of where having iTunes _reduces_
your functionality, since copying works better without iTunes than with it.

I repeat (and easily prove):
o *You have MORE functionality _WITHOUT_ iTunes than you do with it!*

I, like you, have both Android, iPads, & iPods so I speak from experience.
o *You _gain_ functionality the moment you eliminate iTunes from your PC!*

The first step to copying, always, is to delete the iTunes abomination
o *Literally, if you add iTunes to Windows, you _lose_ functionality!*

Then, find an old version of SharePod freeware & copy it to your iPod
o With Sharepod freeware, you instantly turn that iPod into a USB stick
Name: SharePod.exe
Size: 5521408 bytes (5392 KiB)
SHA256: 858FAFCD8706271AA33B6696D3E42C9DE51ADCDD4F713A702CECFBE67E77540F

Here's a screenshot I took just now of Sharepod working on Windows 10:
o <https://i.postimg.cc/fRtZFGSt/sharepod01.jpg>

That happens to be Sharepod freeware, "version 3.9.4 Preview 10"
o Where it's a portable application which resides on the iPod itself

Note the power this gives you is astoundingly fantastic compared to iTunes!
1. Any iPod on the planet works with any PC on the planet
2. That means it doesn't matter whom the iPod is registered to
3. You don't need to maintain the idiotic "library" concept of iTunes

I can plug any iPod on the planet (no matter whom it's registered to)
into _any_ Windows PC on the planet and copy any songs to or from that
iPod to or from that PC simply by sliding them back and forth.

Like God intended things to work.
o The iPod is simply a USB device containing as many songs as will fit.

I pity people who own Apple devices who haven't figured this stuff out yet.
--
Apple makes those profits by removing functionality & then selling it back.

connect the iphone to the pc via a usb cable and use windows explorer,
exactly the same as with android.
to use explorer via wifi, use an app that serves smb, something not
possible on android without rooting, making it actually easier on ios.

To be clear... iOS does NOT have the same copy functionality as Android
o *Native iOS copy functionality is limited in two rather significant

ways*

<Loading Image...>
Given iOS USB file transfer functionality is decidedly NOT the same as
Android, we should note for those who don't have both iOS & Android like

I

do (and like Steve, the OP does), that it's decidedly not "the same"
functionality as nospam claims.
*There is _less_ copy functionality on iOS than there is on Android*
That less native copy functionality difference in two significant areas
1. The direction of transfer (e.g., on Android, it's bidirectional)
2. The amount you can see (e.g., on Android, it's almost everything)
A. For iOS, it's only one direction (i.e., the device is read only)
B. For iOS, it's only photos/videos (i.e., not the visible file system)
o <https://i.postimg.cc/DZB9YDcR/copyfiles01.jpg>

[John Doe]

A.H. is posting copies of this reply to other newsgroups (by which I
mean news groups not seen in the newsgroups header of the reply).
Also be aware that the original the message was off topic in most of the
groups it was posted to, please trim inapropriate newsgroups from
replies.
It seems A.H. is bored again and trying to start another shitstorm.

Another of "Alan Holder's" aliases is "Good Guy". Used to constantly post
in HTML. It's not going away, it's permanently warped like "Skybuck".
Maybe it's the same, who knows, could be from the same family tree.

[Cravings]

On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 10:08:19 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

Post by John Doe

A.H. is posting copies of this reply to other newsgroups (by which I
mean news groups not seen in the newsgroups header of the reply).
Also be aware that the original the message was off topic in most of the
groups it was posted to, please trim inapropriate newsgroups from
replies.
It seems A.H. is bored again and trying to start another shitstorm.

Another of "Alan Holder's" aliases is "Good Guy".

Nope.

A.H. is a California dude. Good Guy is a British dude.

Post by John Doe
Used to constantly post
in HTML. It's not going away, it's permanently warped like "Skybuck".
Maybe it's the same, who knows, could be from the same family tree.

Skybuck....Dutch, I think?

[Ken Blake]

Post by Cravings
On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 10:08:19 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

Post by John Doe

A.H. is posting copies of this reply to other newsgroups (by which I
mean news groups not seen in the newsgroups header of the reply).
Also be aware that the original the message was off topic in most of the
groups it was posted to, please trim inapropriate newsgroups from
replies.
It seems A.H. is bored again and trying to start another shitstorm.

Another of "Alan Holder's" aliases is "Good Guy".

Nope.
A.H. is a California dude. Good Guy is a British dude.

Nope.

Neither is a dude. They are both trolls as well as ...(I'll bite my
tongue, rather than say something overly insulting).

[Arlen Holder]

Post by Ken Blake
Neither is a dude. They are both trolls as well as ...(I'll bite my
tongue, rather than say something overly insulting).

Ken Blake,

Simple adult question for you to answer, please...

How many tested step-by-step detailed _tutorials_ on the subject of
bidirectional transfer of files to/from Linux & Windows & iOS
have _you_ written?

See also:
o Simultaneously slide Windows Linux iOS Android files back and forth
over USB at 7GB per minute speeds using 100% native devices
(no proprietary software needed)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/K0NZ0nb1pWw>

o An elegant solution to managing digital files on ANY iOS, Android,
Windows, or Linux device SIMULTANEOUSLY over USB using
zero additional software (other than the native OS)
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.freeware/H6T7KqzR_ww>

[Paul]

Post by Cravings
On Tue, 20 Oct 2020 10:08:19 -0000 (UTC), John Doe

Post by John Doe

A.H. is posting copies of this reply to other newsgroups (by which I
mean news groups not seen in the newsgroups header of the reply).
Also be aware that the original the message was off topic in most of the
groups it was posted to, please trim inapropriate newsgroups from
replies.
It seems A.H. is bored again and trying to start another shitstorm.

Another of "Alan Holder's" aliases is "Good Guy".

Nope.
A.H. is a California dude. Good Guy is a British dude.

Post by John Doe
Used to constantly post
in HTML. It's not going away, it's permanently warped like "Skybuck".
Maybe it's the same, who knows, could be from the same family tree.

Skybuck....Dutch, I think?

Skybuck (Harald) has an excuse.

The others, not so much.

Paul

[Arlen Holder]

Post by Paul
Skybuck (Harald) has an excuse.

Paul,

Bear in mind we're _both_ purposefully helpful intelligent adults.
o Hence, I need you to respond to the questions below...

*Have you _ever_ found my facts posted to Usenet to be materially wrong?*
*Have you _not_ found my tutorials to be intended to help others?*
*Have you _not_ found my posts replete with annotated detailed screenshots?*
etc.

It's always the trolls calling everyone else a troll.
o But if you echo their sentiments, you need to answer those questions.

You _may_ very well think I cross post too much (indeed, I do).
o I added the _linux_ people because what I added was _about_ linux.

I used to add freeware or winxp to be archived; but I found a better way.
o The alt.comp.microsoft.windows is archived - so I use that now.

The freeware & winxp people may rejoice (rightly so, perhaps).
o Even as they're now cut out of the loop on the helpful tutorials.

But I only added the linux people on what directly concerned linux.
o Morons like J.O. Aho clearly didn't even _read_ the body of the message

[John Doe]

This idiot troll doesn't "help" when it is nym-shifting and causing
articles to appear out of nowhere. It certainly doesn't help when it's
"Good Guy" posting in HTML...
--

Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.mixmin.net!.POSTED!not-for-mail
Newsgroups: alt.comp.os.windows-10,misc.phone.mobile.iphone,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Is there any functionality the iTunes abomination does, for a dual-boot Win/Ubuntu PC that can't be done, better, WITHOUT iTunes?
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 16:25:50 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Mixmin
Injection-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 16:25:50 -0000 (UTC)
Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org alt.comp.os.windows-10:128795 misc.phone.mobile.iphone:137884 alt.os.linux:68325

Post by Paul
Skybuck (Harald) has an excuse.

Paul,
Bear in mind we're _both_ purposefully helpful intelligent adults.
o Hence, I need you to respond to the questions below...
*Have you _ever_ found my facts posted to Usenet to be materially wrong?*
*Have you _not_ found my tutorials to be intended to help others?*
*Have you _not_ found my posts replete with annotated detailed screenshots?*
etc.
It's always the trolls calling everyone else a troll.
o But if you echo their sentiments, you need to answer those questions.
You _may_ very well think I cross post too much (indeed, I do).
o I added the _linux_ people because what I added was _about_ linux.
I used to add freeware or winxp to be archived; but I found a better way.
o The alt.comp.microsoft.windows is archived - so I use that now.
The freeware & winxp people may rejoice (rightly so, perhaps).
o Even as they're now cut out of the loop on the helpful tutorials.
But I only added the linux people on what directly concerned linux.
o Morons like J.O. Aho clearly didn't even _read_ the body of the message

[John Doe]

Post by Paul
Skybuck (Harald) has an excuse.

I agree it's not a perfect comparison. The "not going away" part is
comparable.

[Arlen Holder]

Technical Update (as always, for the permanent record so all benefit)

Please see also these recent related updates from sms, Bbiwy & others:
o Transferring Photos from iPhone to Windows 10 laptop and "Device is unreachable"
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/8TQk81xCjVw>

2. Use a machine with Linux to transfer the photos into an NTFS or exFAT
32 partition on the system (or into a USB stick or SD card). This worked
for me. I did not try a VM Linux--I have several machines that dual boot
Ubuntu and I used one of those).

And it just gets better than that, if you dual boot Windows to Ubuntu!
o It just works!

Specifically see these solutions which show Linux solving the Apple issues!
o Bbiwy
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/8TQk81xCjVw/m/Tabsftm-AgAJ>
o Steve (sms)
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/8TQk81xCjVw/m/ZvfN-YbDAgAJ>
o me
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/8TQk81xCjVw/m/p5w_LErFAgAJ>
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/8TQk81xCjVw/m/ASCY4GnHAgAJ>
etc.

[Arlen Holder]

On Fri, 20 Nov 2020 00:34:26 -0000 (UTC), Arlen Holder

There's "something" clever the Reader is doing that I haven't figured out.

I just saw the helpful note from Glowing Blue Mist in the other thread,
where I tested it out with some degree of success.
o <Loading Image...> You have to use the old method
I just want to report, tenuously so, that I think what the Reader is doing
it not only registering itself as the default PDF editor (which is fine),
but, I think, perhaps, maybe, just maybe, the Reader is _also_ removing
the Writer from the purview of the Windows 10 operating system (somehow).
That is, with both the Reader & Writer installed, you'd "think" you could
o Win+R > ms-settings:defaultapps > Choose default apps by file type > PDF
But, for whatever reason, the _option_ to choose the Writer disappears
the instant you install the Reader (which is clever subterfuge indeed!).
Following the purposefully helpful instructions of GlowingBlueMist, I
resorted to the _manual_ method (the one we used to use in older Windows),
which, interestingly, works!
Why it works is, I think, perhaps probably due simply to the fact that the
Reader can't hide the basic fact that the Writer exists when you use the
"File > Open" GUI (but the Reader _can_ hide the Writer from Windows 10
when you use the "ms-settings:defaultapps" GUI.
o <https://i.postimg.cc/C5TdD4Vs/pdf07.jpg>
Weird. Huh?

I fear these things go over my head like the full moon.
Just happy to get the images back.

When you bought and paid for the full-featured application
(one which includes a PDF editor/reader of its own), it's
generally not a good idea to install the free Reader as well.
For one thing, the bindings to file type, one or the
other application will get the binding. And who really
knows whether when Peter double-clicks "some.pdf" he
really meant for Acrobat11 to open or FreeReader to open.
Some thought has to go into use-cases, as well as
potential partitioning mechanisms. I keep my full-featured
package in a VM (virtual machine), and it seldom gets used
(maybe once every two weeks). Whereas the FreeReader thing
is used all day long, and just reads stuff. No saving out
(unless it's an Acroform or something).
There are *lots* of softwares that don't play nice.
For example, QuickTime Player used to steal all the
file bindings, such that just about any file you
touched, QuickTime would be like "pick me, pick me!".
And you'd be "Jesus, not this again".
You really have to be careful what you wish for.
Some applications present a nice dialog, including
"switch this off" so that during installation,
no bindings at all are stolen.
Paul
There are *lots* of softwares that don't play nice.
For example, QuickTime Player used to steal all the
file bindings, such that just about any file you
touched, QuickTime would be like "pick me, pick me!".
And you'd be "Jesus, not this again".

Hi Paul,

This is as off topic as the above, but the propensity for abysmal
apps to steal the defaults is why I stopped installing the
iTunes abomination after I learned it was not only untested bloatware,
but that it _removed_ functionality.

Yup. You install the shockingly insecure untested iTunes,
and, you _lose_ the ability to connect _any_ iPod on the planet
to _any_ PC on the planet and simply slide MP3 files back & forth.

Sheesh.
o Apple loves to take away basic functionality & then sell it back!

Worse, it used to add Quicktime as part of its worthless bloatware
suite, where apologists like nospam repeatedly claimed Quicktime
was a necessary add on, and yet, it was simply utter bloat
(even for mov files).

What's interesting about what Adobe did to me recently was the
Writer originally was set as the default PDF editor, and then,
when I installed the Reader, the Reader took them (which is fine),
but the Reader also, somehow, magically, hid the fact the
Writer even existed from the Windows Settings GUI.
o How do I get Adobe Acrobat 6 (the writer) to be my default
when I doubleclick on a PDF file in Windows 10
(with Adobe Acrobat DC, the reader, also installed)?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.comp.microsoft.windows/BYATyKKjqX0>

Luckily, as GlowingBlueMist helpfully suggested, the rightclick context
menu allowed me to _find_ the Writer executable, but what's perplexing
is _how_ the Reader managed to hide the Writer from the Windows Settings.
o Win+R > ms-settings:defaultapps > Choose default apps by file type > PDF
--
See also:
o A zero-day vulnerability in iCloud and iTunes on Windows PCs allowed hackers to install ransomware undetected.
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware/c/hftPQAEZr_g>
o Yet again, Apple didn't test its Windows software for longstanding common vulnerabilities
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware/c/JVI-6A3ko38>
o Is there any functionality the iTunes abomination does that can't be done, better, WITHOUT iTunes?
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.os.linux/PLzFxNis7jk>
o What functionality does iTunes do for you that you'll need to replicate without iTunes?
<https://groups.google.com/d/msg/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/v2jT-sWIKR0/gA45WfO6AAAJ>
o Apple iTunes and iCloud for Windows 0-Day Exploited in Ransomware Attacks
<https://thehackernews.com/2019/10/apple-bonjour-ransomware.html>
o The rise and fall of iTunes, Apple's most hated app
<https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/3/18650571/apple-itunes-rip-discontinued-macos-10-15-ipod-store-digital-music-wwdc-2019>
o Where can you find the OLD versions of SharePod freeware [any version prior to version 3.9.4]?
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware/c/urk_6-GQM2M>
o How to access iOS media library on Linux or Windows WITHOUT iTunes?
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware/c/jQlXf5Rlreo>
o An elegant solution to managing digital files on ANY iOS, Android, Windows, or Linux device SIMULTANEOUSLY over USB using zero additional software (other than the native OS)
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware/c/H6T7KqzR_ww>
etc.

[Andy Burnelli]

And iTunes on Windows doesn't back up to iCloud either. Not sure where
you got this hair brained idea that iTunes backs up to iCloud, but it's
100% false.

Regarding what Windows iTunes does that no other programs ever stoop to do:
<https://i.postimg.cc/fRtZFGSt/sharepod01.jpg> itunes removes functionality

Regarding Apple logins and iTunes... Apple forces an "account" there also.

Yup.
a. Without iTunes, you don't need any account
b. With iTunes, you do

FACT:

Years ago, I used Windows' iTunes when I populated my iPods but I soon
learned that SharePod freeware worked _perfectly_ without iTunes.
a. With iTunes, you were restricted what you could copy
b. Without iTunes, you weren't

With SharePod freeware, you just slide any media file from any number of
Windows machines to any number of iPods (you don't need an "account").
a. With iTunes, you are restricted to "your" iPods only
b. Without iTunes, you are unrestricted (just like all nonApple devices are)

The instant you add iTunes, you're _restricted_ as to what you can do
The instant you remove iTunes... Voila! You're free.
a. You can copy _any_ file
b. To and from _any_ iPod & computer (or phone or USB stick, etc.)
c. Without needing to match iTunes to the account on that iPod

Add iTunes on Windows... and you _instantly_ lose functionality.

[Andy Burnelli]

Post by Andy Burnelli
Years ago, I used Windows' iTunes when I populated my iPods but I
soon learned that SharePod freeware worked _perfectly_ without
iTunes.

That seems to have changed, presumably since Sharepod was acquired by
Macroplant in 2013. From https://getsharepod.com/help ...

This is long (because it contains informative on-topic technical value).
Please feel free to snip when you respond (only idiots quote everything).

Every post on Usenet should strive to add value that not everyone knows.
That way, we all grow from reading Usenet, and we help others grow.
(Yes, I know iKooks are on Usenet purely for their own sadistic amusement.)

But the non-iKooks in this newsgroup can still act like adults.
And learn from each other.

Thank you for attempting to add on-topic technical value to the thread
so everyone learns (where iKooks always try to blame us for iTunes' flaws).

The iKooks _hate_ any fact about Apple which shows Apple's approach of
locking you into their extremely restricted ecosystem, so they hated SharePod.

The iKooks want you to do things _only_ the way Apple tells you to do them.
But most of us own what the iKooks don't own... independent thought processes.

We do things the way they _should_ be done.
Not the way Apple wants to restrict you to.

If you install iTunes on Windows, you're fucked.
You have to do things the hugely restricted way Apple wants you to do them.

SharePod instantly freed you of the Draconian Apple walled-garden restrictions.
As long as you did NOT install iTunes, you had complete freedom to move files.
The instant you installed the iTunes abomination, you _lost_ all that freedom.

(Luckily, the freedom to move files between your own devices returns the
instant you delete iTunes, which is, after all the point of this thread.)
a. With SharePod freeware, you have freedom to connect _any_ iPod
b. Not just an iPod with authentication that must match the iTunes abomination
c. With SharePod freeware, you slide any file from anywhere to/from the iPod

In summary, without iTunes, the iPod is a perfect USB stick; but the instant
you install iTunes, you completely _lose_ all that functionally you love above.

Note the SharePod exe itself is not usually installed (or stored) on Windows.
It's portable.

1. This is the last version of SharePod that I used on Windows 10:
<Loading Image...>
2. The SharePod interface gives you unrestricted access to MP3 files:
<Loading Image...>
3. Here we batch copy (& rename) files from iPod to Windows 10:
<Loading Image...>
4. Resulting in an organized archive of all files on any number of iPods:
<Loading Image...>
5. Populate the iPod by syncing with any number of Windows MP3 files:
<Loading Image...>
6. If desired, the ID3 tags can all be batch organized to your liking:
<Loading Image...>
7. With the result that you have unrestricted access to your iPod:
<Loading Image...>

I tested multiple iPods with the following SharePod versions on Win10 Pro
(all of which were sitting on the iPods and not on the Windows computer).

a. Sharepod 3.0 (failed, saying "iTunes has locked the iPod database")
<Loading Image...>
b. Sharepod 3.9.1 (worked fine to copy iPod files to/from Windows)
<Loading Image...>
c. Sharepod 3.9.4 (worked fine to copy iPod files to/from Windows)
<Loading Image...>
d. Sharepod 3.9.6 (worked fine to copy iPod files to/from Windows)
<Loading Image...>

You store the SharePod freeware executable on each and every iPod you own.
Then you have all the freedom in the world that iTunes removes from you.
<https://i.postimg.cc/fRtZFGSt/sharepod01.jpg>

Since Usenet is a team sport where every thread attempts to add value,
see also the log file I've kept which is included below in the sig for you.

All my iPods work with SharePod even today, and I do not have iTunes.
But I know all that you're talking about as I lived through it at the time.

Any SharePod version after version 3.9.7 requires the iTunes abomination.
Any version older than version 2.x requires Net Framework 3.5 on Windows.
Better to find a version 1.x SharePod (they all work essentially the same).

AFAIK, they removed all the good SharePod versions on November 27th, 2010.
But almost everyone already had it sitting on all their iPods before that.

What everyone did was store the SharePod freeware executable on each iPod.
Yes, you heard that right. You just slide the exe over USB to the iPod.

SharePod.exe uses a concept similar to the "portable apps" concept where it
doesn't matter where the executable sits once you put the exe on the iPod.
a. You connect _any_ iPod to _any_ Windows PC
b. And you slide _any_ files back and forth (no need for an "account")
c. THere is no need to maintain an Apple-idiotic "library" for syncing

That Apple-idiotic library concept is a clusterfuck only Apple could devise.
You were forced, unless you jumped thru hoops, to maintain it on the PC.

With SharePod freeware, you don't have any Apple-idiotic rules to obey.
Your iPod turns into a USB stick just like your iPad does with Ubuntu.
--
Version 3.9.7 - 27 November 2010 <==== do not use this version or newer!
* Added: support for iTunes 10.1 and above
Version 3.9.6 - 15 July 2010 <=== use this version or older
* Updated: UI updates to follow modern Windows UI conventions
* Fixed: Cross-thread issues which caused random crashes often when
copying files
* Added: Doesnt run as administrator in Vista/Win7
* Added: We can now drag-drop files to and from Explorer
* Fixed: Songs sometimes imported into iTunes with 'Remember position'
checked

Version 3.9.5 - 7 April 2010
* Added: iTunes 9.1 support
* Fixed: Occasional sqlite database corruption on iPhone/iTouch when
deleting tracks. SharePod now waits until the iPhone/iTouch has finished
updating its internal database.

Version 3.9.4 Preview 10 - 29 October 2009
* Fixed: Nano 5G issues with editing track details and menu ordering

Version 3.9.4 Preview 9 - 18 October 2009
* Added: Nano 5G support

Version 3.9.4 Preview 8 - 27 September 2009
* Fixed: Occasional sqlite database corruption on iPhone/iTouch when
deleting tracks

Version 3.9.4 Preview 7 - 21 September 2009
* Fixed: Random errors
* Added: Automatic update prompt. Every 2 weeks SharePod will check for
a new version.

Version 3.9.4 Preview 6 - 16 September 2009
* Fixed: Albums with multiple artists and sorting "The Band" as "Band"

Version 3.9.4 Preview 5 - 15 September 2009
* Added: iTunes 9 compatibility
* Added: Firmware 3.1.1 compatibility
* Added: Media Player has track position bar

Version 3.9.4 Preview 4 - 4 September 2009
* Fixed: 'An item with the same key has already been added' error

Version 3.9.4 Preview 3 - 1 September 2009
* Fixed: Not handling some track properties correctly

Version 3.9.4 Preview 2 - 31 August 2009
* Added: More debug logging

Version 3.9.4 Preview 1 - 30 August 2009
* Added: Firmware 3.x read/write support. This preview version only
supports adding mp3/m4a files.

Version 3.9.3 - 8 July 2009
* Added: iTouch / iPhone firmware 3.x read-only support


Version 3.9.1 - 22 May 2009
* Added: iTunes 8.2 compatibility

Version 3.9.1 - 22 May 2009
* Fixed: Automatic iTunes import now works with iTunes 8.1.x
* Added: iPhone 'Cancel Sync' slider now works with SharePod (thanks
Alex)
* Fixed: More robust iPhone handling (thanks Alex)
* Fixed: Crash when iPhone goes to sleep / disconnects while SharePod
is running
* Fixed: NullReferenceException when loading some iPods.
* Fixed: Random bug fixes

Version 3.9 - 6 March 2009
* Added: Photo support! Copy photos from your iPod to PC.
* Fixed: Some SharePod-added tracks cannot be auto-synced in iTunes

Version 3.8.9 R2 - 20 February 2009
* Fixed: Some ArtworkDB load errors
* Fixed: External media player error

Version 3.8.9 - 9 February 2009
* Fixed: Sometimes album art not displayed in track properties and
media player
* Fixed: After adding artwork to iPhone with SharePod, iTunes would
sometimes corrupt it.
* Fixed: Better reporting of unexpected errors

Version 3.8.8 - 9 February 2009
* Added: iPhone 3G / iTouch firmware 2.x support
* Added: Automatically add tracks to iTunes
* Added: Updated media player now works with iTouch and iPhones

Version 3.8.7 - 25 September 2008
* Added: iTunes 8 iPhone/iTouch compatibility (this Matt!)
* Added: New iPod Nano compatibility (thanks Chris!)


Version 3.8.6 - 4 August 2008
* Added: Column sorting saved between sessions
* Added: New 'Search' bar
* Fixed: Duplicate song entries in browser and Coverflow in some cases

Version 3.8.5 - 28 July 2008
* Added: If you don't have an Artwork database, SharePod will create
one
* Fixed: iPod Classic small artwork format now supported (Format 1062
errors)

Version 3.8.4 (Beta6) - 18 July 2008
* Added: Detection of new iPhone 3G / iTouch 2.0. The new firmware
locks out 3rd party applications, so SharePod can only copy music from iPod

computer, not computer > iPod.

Version 3.8.4 (Beta5) - 9 July 2008
* Fixed: AFCFileRefOpen error 8 messgaes on some iPod Touches.

Version 3.8.4 (Beta4) - 5 July 2008
* Added: Support for adding videos to iPhone and iTouch
* Fixed: Duplication of some tracks when 'Backup iPod' is used.

Version 3.8.4 (Beta3) - 25 June 2008
* Support for jailbroken iPhone and iTouch models

Version 3.8.4 (Beta2) - 9 June 2008
* Artwork support for iTouch/iPhone. The only thing currently missing
is the Coverflow format, which is quite different to other iPods :(
* Eject doesn't crash SharePod when using an iTouch/iPhone

Version 3.8.4 (Beta) - 6 June 2008
* iPhone / iPod Touch support! You will need to have iTunes installed
for this to work currently.
- There is no artwork support yet (its coming.)
- See http://www.getsharepod.com/help/iphone.aspx for more details.
* Better handling of large artwork libraries for normal iPods. Thanks
to fitsic for the bug report.


Version 3.8.3 - 21 May 2008

* Reads embedded artwork from media file tags when copying to the iPod.
* Eject button re-enabled. Now properly tells Windows about the drive
ejection.
* Backup iPod - 1-click copy all playlists and tracks to your PC.
* Re-worked Copy to PC screen
* iPod Shuffle's now work again. (I now have my own Shuffle to test
each new release with...)
* When Copying to PC, duplicate files are copied and renamed (eg. 'Copy
(2) of Come As You Are.mp3'), instead of being ignored.


SharePod 3.8.2 - 29 April 2008

* SharePod is now 1 file - SharePod.exe. No more .dll files to copy
round.
* Full Podcast support
* Track artist alphabetization (The Beatles will appear under 'B', not
'T')
* Playlists ordered by name
* Drag n drop from explorer straight into a playlist
* M4b file support

And for those of you having problems at work/school where you don't
have admin rights:
* You'll only need to need to run SharePod with admin rights once
(SharePod will save the admin info it needs).
* Every time after that you'll be able to run it with limited
permissions

Edit - 1 May - Fix for iPod shuffles. Edit2 - (no, that didnt fix it)



SharePod 3.8.1 - 16th April 2008

(Bug fix release)
* Fix for Unable to delete track because missing ArtworkDB
* Fix for XmlException with Shuffles
* Added Diagnostics tab to SharePod Utility


SharePod 3.8 - 2nd April 2008

* Add/Remove Album art support. Finally, its here :)
* New 'Remember Position' track option. Videos now have this set by
default.
* Shuffles should be working again.
* Videos dont play in random play mode in the Media Player


SharePod 3.7 - 5th March 2008

* View-only Album Art support! (Full read-write Album Art will be in
the next version)
- Album Art is now displayed in the Track Edit window.
* SharePod should now be able to detect your iTouch/iPhone if you are
using appropriate mounting software (iPhoneFS etc).
- Should be able to view your songs, and hopefully add/remove them too.
- Please post on the forums if you have tried v3.7 with your iTouch/Phone
:)
* Fix for iTunes import: sometimes tracks were put into the wrong
playlist. This was caused by some versions of iTunes
interpreting the import xml file differently.
* Generally faster load times


SharePod 3.6.4 - 8th February 2008

* .Wav file support!
* Album Artist, Year, Disc Number, Number of Album Tracks, Number of
Discs imported from mp3/m4a/m4v files
* Added space used/remaining indicator
* Removed need for sharepod_input.dll, in_mp3.dll, mp4v2.dll. Go ahead
and delete them :)
* Added SharePod forums. Go to www.sturm.net.nz/forums and ask
questions/request new features


SharePod 3.6.3 - 6th December 2007

* More fixes for iPod Classic/Nano menu bug as some people still
affected after 3.6.2
* Added new 'Part of Compilation' flag to the Tag Editor window
* Can now delete Smart Playlists


SharePod 3.6.2 - 28th November 2007

* Fixed new Classic and Nano menu bug
* Fixed drag/drop for playlists and playlist reordering. *Vista*
drag/drop to Explorer still not working.
* Fixed bug when trying to make a track field (eg Artist) emtpy.
* Workaround for needing admin rights with older (non Classic/Nano 3G)
iPods. See http://faq.sturm.net.nz for details.


SharePod 3.6.1 - 17th October 2007

* Added support for 64bit OS's (XP 64bit, 2003 64bit, Vista 64bit
* Fixed 'Xml error' bug for older iPods and Shuffles
* Fixed 'ArgumentException' bug
* Included SharePodUtility in zip file.


SharePod 3.6 - 17th October 2007

* Added support for new iPods and iTunes!


SharePod 3.5 - 20th September 2007

* Fixed bug when sometimes deleting a playlist
* Added check to not try and update the newest iPod Touch and Classic.
Apple has made it much harder for 3rd party apps to update these iPods.
Workarounds are in progress but nothing is ready for this release.


SharePod 3.4 - 26th July 2007

* Better support for older iPods. And if SharePod cant read it, it
should give a better idea of what happend.
* Hopefully fixed bug for some people who couldnt drag/drop between
playlists.
* Added multi-column sorting! When you sort now, you can select as
many columns as you want (and the direction)
* Added ability to choose between Safe mode and Normal mode when
SharePod cant confirm the iPod's compatibility. This could occur for some
simple reasons and is usually fine to continue.
* Fixed the filesize text on the statusbar when the size of the
selected files was above 2Gb.
* (29th July) Fixed "Invalid MHDP Length" error


SharePod 3.3 - 26th June 2007

* Dropped the silly 4 character version numbers (from now it will be
x.x)
* Drag tracks up and down playlists to re-order them (this is the most
requested feature!)
* To do this, select 1 or more tracks, and hold down ALT as you drag
them up or down the playlist.
* Fix for non-latin characters in filenames when exporting tracks to
iTunes
* Removed the requirement to have an iTunes 7.1+ format database.


SharePod 3.0.0.2 - 31st May 2007

* Actually fixed the application hang bug when copying tracks to iPod
* Added Multi-line grid row mode (cells wrap long content if necessary)


SharePod 3.0.0.1 - 29th May 2007

* Dragging tracks to a playlist preserves ordering and keeps current
selection
* Drop to Explorer now works properly and includes drop to Desktop
* Hopefully fixed application hanging when copying files problem
* Custom Copy to PC filename pattern now saved
* Minor changes

SharePod 3.0 - 18th May 2007

Major new feature list:
* iPod Shuffle support
* Video file import
* Play counts import
* Playlists and Ratings exported to iTunes
* Completely rewritten code to support adding/removing tracks and playlists from your iPod
* Multi-backup and restore system
* More track properties (Composer, Description etc.)
* Track tag editing
* Drag and Drop files straight from your iPod onto your computer (and
vice versa)
* Big speed improvements for loading & searching
* Written using .NET framework (better performance, Vista support and stability)

- To add tracks to a playlist, select 1 or more tracks, then drag-drop them
onto the playlist you want
to add them to. If they are already in the playlist they wont be added
twice.

- When copying to the iPod, each track is checked (Title, Artist, Album) to
see if it already exists. If it does, the track is not copied.

- SharePod now supports mp4/m4v files. Note the files you import must be
in the correct resolution/bitrate/etc for your iPod. SharePod doesnt
re-encode the video, it is assumed it is already fit for the iPod. A good
free encoder is Videora (http://www.videora.com/en-us/Converter/iPod/)

- To export a playlist to iTunes, right-click on the playlist and select
'Copy To PC'. This will copy all the tracks in the playlist to your
computer and create an iTunes Import file to link those tracks to a
playlist.
Alternatively, if you copy the selected tracks in the normal way, SharePod
creates a default 'SharePod' playlist in iTunes.

- When using the Eject menu item, SharePod saves any outstanding changes,
sends the iPod its 'disconnect' command and exits. Sometimes Windows
displays an error message but this is safe to ignore.

[Stan Brown]

Post by Andy Burnelli
If you install iTunes on Windows, you're fucked.

You keep saying this. Such is not my experience, and at least one
other poster has said the same.

Maybe you could stop reposting the same rant against "kooks" who
disagree with you? That would shorten your articles without reducing
their value, and you say you're all about value.

[Andy Burnelli]

Post by Stan Brown

Post by Andy Burnelli
If you install iTunes on Windows, you're fucked.

You keep saying this. Such is not my experience, and at least one
other poster has said the same.

Thank you for your adult (and completely correct) observation, Stan.
Yours is a valid point.

I was being too harsh on the entirety of the Windows iTunes "product line".

In actuality, you're only fucked by iTunes bloatware and by the fact Apple
doesn't test iTunes (or its bloatware), but if you don't mind the Apple
imposed use model, then you're "not fucked" by the enforced use model.

Would you agree with _that_ statement yet, Stan?

Post by Stan Brown
Maybe you could stop reposting the same rant against "kooks" who
disagree with you? That would shorten your articles without reducing
their value, and you say you're all about value.

I accept that I expect iKooks to deny all facts, so, when this is posted to
Windows, I'll try to refrain from preempting the iKooks denial of facts.

Moving forward, since we're supposed to be learning from each other...

I agree with you that if you accept the iTunes use model for an iOS device
or an iPod, then it should not only work just fine, but it should provide
you the functionality that Apple put into iTunes for you (and for them).

But if you want total freedom of sliding any file, any iPod, any iOS device,
any direction (i.e., read and write) to any location, from any location
(in the visible file sytem), then iTunes is perhaps not your cup of tea.

In summary, iTunes "does stuff", but with the good, comes a lot of bad.
Because of the bad, the topic of this thread was to replace the good.

[Andy Burnelli]

Post by Andy Burnelli
I was being too harsh on the entirety of the Windows iTunes "product line".

Always striving to add accurate well-documented value in every thread...
(and bearing in mind I always test my own claims before I tell them to you)

I accidentally omitted the apropos _linux_ part of this topic in that prior
response to Stan who said I was being to harsh on the Windows iTunes, as the
Linux equivalent to the Windows iTunes is absolutely stunningly fantastic.

The way Linux (Ubuntu anyway) handles iOS products is exceptionally perfect!
(Why can't iTunes be _that_ good?)

If you've never done what I've done as shown above, you won't easily be able
to understand why iTunes doesn't do what native Linux & old SharePod does.

I would know.
And I back up my claims (unlike iKooks) with my own detailed screenshots.

I use Linux dual boot to turn the iOS device into a read/write USB stick.
<Loading Image...> Simultaneous linux, win10 & iOS
<Loading Image...> How does macOS work with iOS?
<Loading Image...> iOS hacks very often will fail
<Loading Image...> iOS requires hacks just to copy
<Loading Image...> Android is 2-way fast over USB
<Loading Image...> iOS only DCIM & only 1-way copy
<Loading Image...> iOS is just a dumb brick on Win
<Loading Image...> Ubuntu is two-way, everything
<Loading Image...> Ubuntu uses iFuse for its magic
<Loading Image...> Ubuntu, movies _to_ iOS on USB
<Loading Image...> Ubuntu is two way, everything
<Loading Image...> Android is two way, everything
<Loading Image...> iOS "Files" does nothing useful
<Loading Image...> iOS/Win is 1-way & DCIM only
Everything you could hope for, is provided, native, with the Ubuntu distro!

As is everything you could hope for with the old SharePod version 1.x & 2.x!
<Loading Image...>
<Loading Image...>
<Loading Image...>
<Loading Image...>
<Loading Image...>
<Loading Image...>
<Loading Image...>

Given all that perfection for moving files back & forth, my question is what
else do we need to perfect that iTunes does, which we don't already have?

[Stan Brown]

Post by Andy Burnelli

Post by Stan Brown

Post by Andy Burnelli
If you install iTunes on Windows, you're fucked.

You keep saying this. Such is not my experience, and at least one
other poster has said the same.

Thank you for your adult (and completely correct) observation, Stan.
Yours is a valid point.
I was being too harsh on the entirety of the Windows iTunes "product line".
In actuality, you're only fucked by iTunes bloatware and by the fact Apple
doesn't test iTunes (or its bloatware), but if you don't mind the Apple
imposed use model, then you're "not fucked" by the enforced use model.

I still don't know what you mean by "the Apple imposed use model",
unless it's simply that we sync through iTunes. If that's what you
mean, I fail to see the objection. Why would I care just how my music
files are structured on my iPod?

And as for going the other direction, from iPod back to PC, that's a
matter of enabling disk usage (which I think I recall is the correct
term). In fact I did just that, some years ago, when my PC's hard
drive failed: after a little googling I was able to transfer all my
iPod music, audiobooks, and videos back to iTunes on the new hard
drive.

I do agree about the bloatware. An ordinary user might not know
enough to trim it down, which is why I wrote this article:
https://brownmath.com/general/7service.htm#iTunes
I've done that in Windows 7 and Windows 8; as far as I know the same
steps would also work in Windows 10. But instead, on my new Windows
10 PC I simply disabled the unneeded services.

[sms]

Post by Stan Brown

Post by Andy Burnelli
If you install iTunes on Windows, you're fucked.

You keep saying this. Such is not my experience, and at least one
other poster has said the same.

I have iTunes on Windows and it is no problem. I could pay extra for
software that allows the transfer of content from the computer to the
iPhone and iPad without iTunes but I see no reason to do that. iTunes is
annoying to use but it's free.

[Andy Burnelli]

Post by sms
have iTunes on Windows and it is no problem. I could pay extra for
software that allows the transfer of content from the computer to the
iPhone and iPad without iTunes but I see no reason to do that. iTunes is
annoying to use but it's free.

Adult question.
Apropos question.
Revealing question.

For Steve:
*What does iTunes do if it doesn't _like_ where you put your random MP3s?*

What happens to your iPod MP3 files, Steve, if they're randomly stored.
a. Thousands of MP3s are in multiple locations on a bunch of PCs
b. More thousands of MP3s are in multiple iPods of any "account" whatsoever
c. I mix and match

What happens then, Steve.
What is the default iTunes "storage" model for _where_ it wants to see MP3s?

And, more to the point of how _dangerous_ iTunes is to people who don't
believe that the only way to use an Apple product is to store all your files
in exactly the location in one spot on one computer that Apple wants you
to...

*What does iTunes do if it doesn't _like_ where you put those random MP3s?*

[Jolly Roger]

Post by Stan Brown

Post by Andy Burnelli
If you install iTunes on Windows, you're fucked.

You keep saying this. Such is not my experience, and at least one
other poster has said the same.

Many of us use iTUnes without such issue. I've used iTunes for many
years, and have *never* lost any music. I know and provide technical
support for many others who have no such issue. He's making shit up.

Post by Stan Brown
Maybe you could stop reposting the same rant against "kooks" who
disagree with you? That would shorten your articles without reducing
their value, and you say you're all about value.

He's a regular troll in the Apple news groups, who regularly switches
nyms, and he won't stop. Best to just ignore him.

[Andy Burnelli]

Correct, Sharepod went the route of being acquired.
- in the past I occasionally suggested Sharepod as a resource if
iTunes was getting persnickety and the only other option was
remove/reinstall, but with Macroplant going silent(blog hasn't released
a new article in almost 6 mos) it's bordering on whether or not it
really should be considered a purchase item.

It's good you're aware of the newer SharePod being different from the older
freeware SharePod, where, if it requires iTunes, what good is it to anyone?

I used the freeware to turn any iPod into a USB stick (i.e., total freedom).
a. Any iPod (not just one synced to Apple software
b. Any file (not just files that Apple likes)
c. Read and write without maintaining an Apple-clusterfuck library

But the instant you install iTunes, you _lose_ all that functionality.
Without that functionality, what good is SharePod to anyone?

Likewise it's not necessary to follow iTunes guidelines for importing
content(music, videos) to the user's iTunes library. More work, but same
result in the library.

The astoundingly huge problems with iTunes can be summarized as 4 facts.
1. Windows' iTunes _reduces_ functionality the instant you install it.
(but you gain that functionality back the instant you uninstall it)
<https://i.postimg.cc/fRtZFGSt/sharepod01.jpg>

2. Windows' iTunes is the canonical definition of unnecessary bloatware
(can anyone spell "Quicktime" or "Bonjour" for example?)
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=remove+windows+itunes+bloatware>

3. Windows' iTunes is almost completely untested for vulnerabilities
(Apple doesn't even test Safari, so why would they bother with iTunes?)
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware/c/hftPQAEZr_g>

4. The iTunes abomination very often will _destroy_ your media collection!
(iTunes won't even inform you that it is doing this - it just does it).
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=itunes+deleted+my+files>

*Note iKooks completely _ignore_ these huge flaws in the iTunes abomination.
What iKooks love is blame us for these four huge iTunes abomination flaws.

The iKooks only know what Apple feeds them about the iTunes abomination.
But Apple doesn't feed them any facts about the Windows iTunes abomination.
1. You have more functionality without it
2. The Apple iTunes abomination contains bloatware
3. Apple doesn't test Windows iTunes for security flaws
4. All accounts (look it up) show it will DESTROY your files eventually

What you find is the iKooks _hate_ all facts about Apple.
Notice iKooks have no _adult_ defense to these facts.

Also note _every_ fact above has _plenty_ of cites which we can bring to the
fore if the iKooks want to claim that the four huge flaws are our fault.

[Stan Brown]

Post by Andy Burnelli
I used the freeware to turn any iPod into a USB stick (i.e., total freedom).

Or you could just mount it in Windows. I haven't tried it recently,
but have done it in Windows 7 and 8.1. You just select "disk more",
if I remember rightly. Neither iTunes nor third-party software needed
if you want to use your iPod as a USB stick.

[Andy Burnelli]

there's no additional work. people can put their music and videos
wherever they want or let itunes manage it for them or a mix of the
two. itunes doesn't care.

These iKooks like nospam can be forgiven for never reading _any_ cites,
since they have no education and worse, they only know what Apple fed them.

We told nospam that many experts proved iTunes unilaterally destroys your
file content, which was proved beyond any doubt in the references over here.
<https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/F-gWC05h1xQ>

The point being that these uneducated iKooks can be forgiven for being
ignorant because they've only done exactly what Apple tells them do to.

While for adults, ignorance is curable, it's incurable for the iKooks,
where I'll just run a search _knowing_ there are tons of cites to be found.
<https://duckduckgo.com/?q=itunes+destroyed+my+file+collection>

Here's just one example from someone who lost his entire file collection:
<https://slate.com/technology/2016/05/will-apple-music-complete-itunes-destruction-of-my-will-to-collect-music.html>
"The original files, as Pinkstone understood it, had been deleted off his
computer in the process. To his surprise, when he called Apple Support
to find out what happened and how to fix it, he was told that this was
exactly how Apple Music was supposed to work."

Note the iKooks always blame the user for flaws that are inherent in iTunes.
That Slate blog went on further to surmise:
"As Farhad Manjoo wrote in Slate in 2012, in a piece titled
'Won't Someone Take iTunes Out Back and Shoot It?' the software had
become a bloated monster that wasn't good at doing any of the things
that Apple was forcing it to do."

I, myself, lost thousands of files to iTunes before I realized that the
Apple way is a Draconian prison cell with clusterfuck rules only Apple could
devise.

Even reviews of iTunes warn users that iTunes will eventually destroy
your file collection because of the Apple-specific clusterfuck "library"
sinc concept (which deletes files WITHOUT even asking you "at the time" that
they're deleted!).

Can you name any other software that deletes thousands of files without even
informing you at the time it's deleting them that it's doing that on you?

[nospam]

Post by Andy Burnelli
I, myself, lost thousands of files to iTunes before I realized

that blindly clicking on a confirmation dialog without having read it
can have undesirable consequences.

Post by Andy Burnelli
Can you name any other software that deletes thousands of files without even
informing you at the time it's deleting them that it's doing that on you?

rm

[Andy Burnelli]

Post by nospam

Post by Andy Burnelli
I, myself, lost thousands of files to iTunes before I realized

that blindly clicking on a confirmation dialog without having read it
can have undesirable consequences.

You iKooks are as predicable as kindergarten children, where I can predict
every response from you iKooks years in advance because you can't formulate
an _adult_ response to the facts you _hate_ about Apple products.

I said you iKooks always blame the user for the iTunes clusterfuck design.
And you did.

[Peter]

Post by Andy Burnelli
You iKooks are as predicable as kindergarten children, where I can predict
every response from you iKooks years in advance because you can't formulate
an _adult_ response to the facts you _hate_ about Apple products.

Then don't respond to them especially if you already know what they'll say.
They're only trying to get your goat. They are in this for the fun only.
You labor an hour writing up your detailed threads and they spend seconds
typing denials of what you wrote up. You know ahead of time they'll do that.
Who wins?
Them.
There are more of them.
And they spend only a second or two denying everything outright.
Give up.
You can't win.
They will always outnumber you.
And they put nothing into each of their posts except denials.

[Dan Purgert]

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Post by Andy Burnelli
Can you name any other software that deletes thousands of files
without even informing you at the time it's deleting them that it's
doing that on you?

rm

Don't forget about dd!


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[Andy Burnelli]

It does make a difference, though when one understands how to use it
properly.

iTunes is kind of like Covid in that it will eventually get you.
Many articles claim iTunes will eventually destroy all your files.

It's only a matter of time because it's _designed_ to do that sans warning.
All it takes is for iTunes to "not like" whatever library you have synced.

Just like with Covid, here are the pleas from those in the emergency room:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=itunes+will+eventually+destroy+your+files>

[Andy Burnelli]

I will give you entertainment credit

I give tremendous value to Usenet and I get tremendous value from Usenet.

Plenty of people are on Usenet for pure entertainment.
Not me

I've been on Usenet for decades for one reason, & one reason only.
Value

There are only two ways that value is exchanged on Usenet.
You give it
You get it

For some people, like iKooks & trolls, it's their entertainment.
Not for me.

[Andy Burnelli]

iTunes ... will eventually get you.
Many articles claim iTunes will eventually destroy all your files.

It's the Internet. _any_ claim, no matter how bizarre, will be made
by "many articles."

Stan,
You bring up excellent _adult_ points of view, which I appreciate.

Mostly I converse with iKooks on the iTunes topic which you know means
they'll deny everything about Apple they _hate_ (which is a lot).

Before we accept a claim, we need to do better
than just count the number of times it's advanced. Otherwise we'll be
believing in child trafficking out of pizza parlor basements.

Well, do you believe that I've posted (with many detailed screenshots no
less) my own experiences, Stan?

I'm different from the iKooks as I've used _both_ the iTunes (I won't call
it an abomination here, in deference to your prior suggestion to be more
polite about describing what I think of iTunes) "product line" (rest
assured, it's not just one piece of software as a lot of bloat comes along
with iTunes, not the least of which used to be Quicktime, which, thank God,
Apple deprecated along with Apple deprecating most of iTunes over time).

To be clear, Apple created iTunes to cater to their profit margins and to
placate the music industry, which, a decade or so ago, dictated such things.

Stan, I deal in facts.

I gave you a factual quote, which you apparently missed, from Slate, which
said that Apple claims that iTunes is _designed_ to do exactly what it does.

Delete your files (if they don't meet Apple's specific requirements).
Do you not believe that cited claim (ostensibly from Apple herself)?

Why not?

It's only a matter of time because it's _designed_ to do that sans warning.

Andy, instead of just repeating the same claim, how about if you back
it up, or at least detail the circumstances. For example, is this
some sort of DRM thing? Or did you enable synching to the iTunes
Store (or fail to disable it)? These are just random guesses, because
I've never seen this problem occur.

See above that, yes, in some cases iTunes will wipe out your entire
collection due to "some sort of DRM thing", but that's not what happened to
me _multiple_ times.

The iTunes "product line" imposes, by default, a severe restriction on what
"it" ("it" being the iTunes algorithm) considers a valid file.

Any file "it" doesn't consider valid, it wipes out, by default.
It just does.

This happened to me (and to millions of others - but to me) many times.
It does that.

We can delve into _why_ it does that, but the main point is that "I" don't
think an MP3 file sitting on just my iPod is an invalid file, even if "it"
(remember, "it" is the Draconian iTunes algorithm) thinks that simple MP3
file is invalid.

Not because of the file, mind you.
Nope. It has nothing to do with the file.

Apple just doesn't like _where_ that file resides.
That's all.

If the iTunes "product line" doesn't like _where_ you put your MP3 files,
then the iTunes "product line" will _delete_ that file. Instantly.

Without even asking you at that time.
This has happened to me on _thousands_ of files at a time, Stan.
Yes. To me.

I normally document everything I say with my own screenshots but I don't
have a screenshot of the iTunes "product line" deleting my files as I didn't
even know they were being deleted at the time.

But I'm not making this up.
Anyone who knows anything about iTunes know it does this.

The iKooks will claim that everything iTunes does is the users' fault.
And, to some extent, that may be true given you can jump thru safety hoops
every time you touch iTunes (like you would with explosive dynamite); but
the _best_ use model, once you've experienced Apple's sadistic use model, is
to simply avoid using iTunes altogether.

My opinion, based on experience, is that if you use EXACTLY the use model
Apple forces upon you, then iTunes will most likely not destroy your entire
file collection.

But guess what happens if you do NOT use Apple's restrictive use model Stan?
(And if you don't jump thru hoops to set it up with non-default settings)

I've been using iTunes for almost 17 years and, like Winston, have
never lost a single file due to action by iTunes. Seems like if it
was all that inevitable, I should have seen it by now.

Winston is a troll.
He has never added any value to any topic in his life.
I use him simply as a way to get my point across to the others.

You, on the other hand, are _not_ a troll.
We can learn from you.
You can learn from me.

That's what Usenet is all about, Stan.
a. I provide knowledge that most people do not inherently have.
b. You provide knowledge that most people do not inherently have.

It's a team sport.
We both win.

When we teach each other.

What about you? Did this ever happen to you?

See above.
To answer your question, yes, of course.
Of course it happened to me.

I lost _thousands_ of MP3 files due to iTunes, Stan.
Why do you think I so vehemently hate iTunes' default use model Stan?

Do you really think I use the Apple-restrictive file system use model?
a. I put any MP3 on any iPod and then I wipe it off of the computer.
b. I wipe it off the computer because I don't _play_ it on the computer.
c. So why on earth would I store a file I never use on the computer?

Guess what the _default_ model is for iTunes MP3 file storage, Stan?

Or did you ever see a
credible article from someone it happened to?

Funny story (but sad end result).

1. I already knew iTunes had a propensity to destroy your MP3 files.
2. A neighbor wanted a few thousand of my MP3's for his kid's iPod.
3. I warned him and I googled and tried to set up iTunes to _not_
delete everything on the iPod if it simply didn't like the fact
that the computer file system didn't 'match' the iPod.

Well, something went wrong with the iTunes settings even _after_ I knew that
iTunes loves to destroy MP3 files that aren't stored exactly the way Apple
wants them to be stored "inside of iTunes".

Wham.
Yet again, the entire set of MP3s was wiped out by iTunes.
Without even so much as a whimper that it was doing such a crazy thing.

That was the _last_ time I ever used iTunes on a Windows computer.
I swore to every God that would listen to me that Apple be damned.

True story.

[nospam]

Post by Andy Burnelli
If the iTunes "product line" doesn't like _where_ you put your MP3 files,
then the iTunes "product line" will _delete_ that file. Instantly.

nonsense.

music can be put *anywhere*, locally, on a network share or even
removable storage. itunes doesn't care. that't entirely up to the user,
and always has been.

if for some reason one or more songs can't be found (e.g., volume
offline), a ! icon appears next to the songs. to resolve that, either
mount the missing volume or have itunes search for its new location.

itunes will only delete content when explicitly told to do so, at which
point, it will then ask for confirmation just to make sure. if you
cancel, nothing is deleted, but if you do confirm, it will do exactly
what you told it to do, delete stuff.

you also need to fix your buggy scripts so that they don't multi-post.

[Andy Burnelli]

the earth is flat!

The adults will note that the only way nospam can deal with facts is to act
like a kindergarten kid, and at the same time, he doesn't _know_ the facts.

what he did was connect an ipod that hadn't previously been synced (or
wasn't his), so itunes put up a dialog asking if he wanted to erase and
sync it with the music on that computer.

Close. But there is no dialog. At least not then there wasn't.

And that's the point.
*I swore off iTunes because it deleted thousands of file WITHOUT ASKING!*

Apple unilaterally deleted any MP3 file it didn't like _where_ you had it.
No other reason did Apple need.
*It wasn't where Apple _wanted_ it.*

So iTunes deleted it.
Without a single prompt telling the user it would do this.

If Apple improved Windows' iTunes to now give the user an obvious warning,
then that is what you'd _expect_ of software that "manages" files, right?

<https://www.macworld.co.uk/cmsdata/features/3523862/itunes_erase_warnin
g.jpg>

Wow. I filter Alan Baker and Snit (because they _never_ add value), but this
is a rare occurrence of nospam providing a URL to back up his claims.
<Loading Image...>

But I know nospam.
He's a liar.

He'll fabricate _anything_ to back up Apple products to the death.
No matter what.

He'll often provide a JPG that is old or completely out of context.
But he won't provide the article from whence that jpg came from.
(Steve pulls these dirty tricks also - which only work on fools.)

So where is the article?
When does that warning come up?

For example, does that warning come up only in a first sync & not the rest?
If so, that's a _completely_ different scenario than populating many iPods.

Let's see a cite from nospam explaining exactly _when_ that warning arises.
Then we can talk about the facts, nospam.

NOTE: I can predict, years in advance, you will brazenly and repeatedly lie
to protect Apple (and that's fine but let's see the facts, shall we).

he did not understand what it meant, maybe he didn't even read it at
all, clicked the button to confirm, at which point itunes dutifully did
exactly what he told it to do, which is to erase the existing contents
and sync the music on the computer.

Adults can predict years in advance that nospam will fabricate any excuse to
defend Apple products, and he does, but I can also predict that anything
that Apple products do that he needs to defend, he'll claim it's your fault.
*You are holding it wrong*

He'll even blame, of all things, general chemistry principles for the reason
that only some iPhones (and not others, nor any iPads) are secretly
throttled simply because, of all things...
*It's battery chemistry that made Apple secretly throttle CPUs"

Rather than always "blame the user" nospam, show us all a cite (not a JPG
that comes up when you populate multiple iPods multiple times, nospam.

Not just the _first_ time, nospam.
Show us a cite.

another one of his mistakes was keeping the *only* copy of the music on
the ipod. if he had a backup on his computer, he could just re-sync it.
tl;dr user error.

Notice I predicted people like nospam would _blame_ the user for everything
that the Apple products do (as exemplified by: "you're holding it wrong").

[nospam]

Post by Andy Burnelli

what he did was connect an ipod that hadn't previously been synced (or
wasn't his), so itunes put up a dialog asking if he wanted to erase and
sync it with the music on that computer.

Close. But there is no dialog. At least not then there wasn't.

there always has been a confirmation dialog.

you fucked up and refuse to admit it.

you also fucked up your scripts, which continue to multipost.