Former US treasury secretary comments on Boris's weak position

[Pamela]

Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...


A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the UK
to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.

Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic Council
in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris Johnson's "do or die"
strategy of leaving the EU at the end of October, whatever the
circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK of any leverage in future
trade talks.

---

Mr Summers told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: "Look at it from
America’s point of view: Britain has much less to give than Europe as a
whole did, therefore less reason for the United States to make
concessions. You make more concessions dealing with a wealthy man than
you do dealing with a poor man."

"Second, Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate. Britain has
nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon. When you have a
desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest bargain."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-trade-deal-boris-
johnson-larry-summers-obama-dominic-raab-a9040951.html

[abelard]

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the UK
to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic Council
in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris Johnson's "do or die"
strategy of leaving the EU at the end of October, whatever the
circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK of any leverage in future
trade talks.
---
Mr Summers told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: "Look at it from
America’s point of view: Britain has much less to give than Europe as a
whole did, therefore less reason for the United States to make
concessions. You make more concessions dealing with a wealthy man than
you do dealing with a poor man."
"Second, Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate. Britain has
nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon. When you have a
desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest bargain."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-trade-deal-boris-
johnson-larry-summers-obama-dominic-raab-a9040951.html

is that why heath made such a poor bargain with the eussr?
or why bliar continually folded and wanted to go further in selling
the country out?

[JNugent]

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the UK
to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic Council
in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris Johnson's "do or die"
strategy of leaving the EU at the end of October, whatever the
circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK of any leverage in future
trade talks.
---
Mr Summers told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: "Look at it from
America’s point of view: Britain has much less to give than Europe as a
whole did, therefore less reason for the United States to make
concessions. You make more concessions dealing with a wealthy man than
you do dealing with a poor man."
"Second, Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate. Britain has
nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon. When you have a
desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest bargain."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-trade-deal-boris-
johnson-larry-summers-obama-dominic-raab-a9040951.html

"Larry Summers, who served ... in Barack Obama’s administration..."

Yeah, right.

You'll be quoting the Washington Post and the Guardian next.

[Pamela]

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the
UK to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic
Council in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris
Johnson's "do or die" strategy of leaving the EU at the end of
October, whatever the circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK
of any leverage in future trade talks.
---
Mr Summers told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: "Look at it from
America’s point of view: Britain has much less to give than
Europe as a whole did, therefore less reason for the United States
to make concessions. You make more concessions dealing with a
wealthy man than you do dealing with a poor man."
"Second, Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate. Britain has
nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon. When you have a
desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest bargain."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-trade-
deal-boris-johnson-larry-summers-obama-dominic-raab-a9040951.html

"Larry Summers, who served ... in Barack Obama’s administration..."
Yeah, right.
You'll be quoting the Washington Post and the Guardian next.

He's clearly a well regarded observer.

Maybe you would rather I relied on a paper like the Express. I wonder if
it manages to print a hard copy of a "hidden agenda".

[JNugent]

Post by Pamela

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the
UK to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic
Council in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris
Johnson's "do or die" strategy of leaving the EU at the end of
October, whatever the circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK
of any leverage in future trade talks.
---
Mr Summers told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: "Look at it from
America’s point of view: Britain has much less to give than
Europe as a whole did, therefore less reason for the United States
to make concessions. You make more concessions dealing with a
wealthy man than you do dealing with a poor man."
"Second, Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate. Britain has
nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon. When you have a
desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest bargain."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-trade-
deal-boris-johnson-larry-summers-obama-dominic-raab-a9040951.html

"Larry Summers, who served ... in Barack Obama’s administration..."
Yeah, right.
You'll be quoting the Washington Post and the Guardian next.

He's clearly a well regarded observer.
Maybe you would rather I relied on a paper like the Express. I wonder if
it manages to print a hard copy of a "hidden agenda".

You could try The Times. Even the BBC.

Quoting a self-confessed acolyte of the left is unimpressive for the
most obvious of reasons, as you are well aware.

[Pamela]

Post by JNugent

Post by Pamela

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for
the UK to expect a favourable trade deal with America after
Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic
Council in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris
Johnson's "do or die" strategy of leaving the EU at the end of
October, whatever the circumstances, had robbed the "desperate"
UK of any leverage in future trade talks.
---
Mr Summers told BBC Radio 4 Today programme: "Look at
it from America’s point of view: Britain has much less to
give than Europe as a whole did, therefore less reason for the
United States to make concessions. You make more concessions
dealing with a wealthy man than you do dealing with a poor man."
"Second, Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate. Britain
has nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon. When you have
a desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest
bargain."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-trade-
deal-boris-johnson-larry-summers-obama-dominic-raab-a9040951.html

"Larry Summers, who served ... in Barack Obama’s
administration..."
Yeah, right.
You'll be quoting the Washington Post and the Guardian next.

He's clearly a well regarded observer.
Maybe you would rather I relied on a paper like the Express. I wonder
if it manages to print a hard copy of a "hidden agenda".

You could try The Times. Even the BBC.
Quoting a self-confessed acolyte of the left is unimpressive for the
most obvious of reasons, as you are well aware.

I trust those who have demonstrated expertise and success without
resorting to deride them for their political beliefs.

Larry Summers knows far better than most how America operates. He's able
to speak without bias as he doesn't have a dog in this fight.

By the way, how many ballot papers do you know have the parties' manifesto
items printed on them?

[JNugent]

Post by Pamela

Post by JNugent

Post by Pamela

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for
the UK to expect a favourable trade deal with America after
Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic
Council in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris
Johnson's "do or die" strategy of leaving the EU at the end of
October, whatever the circumstances, had robbed the "desperate"
UK of any leverage in future trade talks.
---
Mr Summers told BBC Radio 4 Today programme: "Look at
it from America’s point of view: Britain has much less to
give than Europe as a whole did, therefore less reason for the
United States to make concessions. You make more concessions
dealing with a wealthy man than you do dealing with a poor man."
"Second, Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate. Britain
has nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon. When you have
a desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest
bargain."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-trade-
deal-boris-johnson-larry-summers-obama-dominic-raab-a9040951.html

"Larry Summers, who served ... in Barack Obama’s
administration..."
Yeah, right.
You'll be quoting the Washington Post and the Guardian next.

He's clearly a well regarded observer.
Maybe you would rather I relied on a paper like the Express. I wonder
if it manages to print a hard copy of a "hidden agenda".

You could try The Times. Even the BBC.
Quoting a self-confessed acolyte of the left is unimpressive for the
most obvious of reasons, as you are well aware.

I trust those who have demonstrated expertise and success without
resorting to deride them for their political beliefs.

In am not deriding him for his beliefs. I am simply taking note and
account of those beliefs and exercising a little basic source-criticism
(as taught in the first few weeks of any decent social sciences course).

Post by Pamela
Larry Summers knows far better than most how America operates. He's able
to speak without bias as he doesn't have a dog in this fight.

That's a good one. Obama wouldn't have appointed him had he been a
genuine political neutral. That's the way things work in Washington.

Post by Pamela
By the way, how many ballot papers do you know have the parties' manifesto
items printed on them?

Oh, many, many tens of millions. And that's just in the UK since that
policy was introduced.

What does it have to do with the former US Treasury Secretary?

[Pamela]

Post by JNugent

Post by Pamela

Post by JNugent

Post by Pamela

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional"
for the UK to expect a favourable trade deal with America
after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National
Economic Council in Barack Obama’s
administration, said that Boris Johnson's "do or die"
strategy of leaving the EU at the end of October, whatever
the circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK of any
leverage in future trade talks.
---
Mr Summers told BBC Radio 4 Today programme: "Look at
it from America’s point of view: Britain has
much less to give than Europe as a whole did, therefore less
reason for the United States to make concessions. You make
more concessions dealing with a wealthy man than you do
dealing with a poor man."
"Second, Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate.
Britain has nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon.
When you have a desperate partner, that’s
when you strike the hardest bargain."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-trade-
deal-boris-johnson-larry-summers-obama-dominic-raab-a9040951.html

"Larry Summers, who served ... in Barack Obama’s
administration..."
Yeah, right.
You'll be quoting the Washington Post and the Guardian next.

He's clearly a well regarded observer.
Maybe you would rather I relied on a paper like the Express. I
wonder if it manages to print a hard copy of a "hidden agenda".

You could try The Times. Even the BBC.
Quoting a self-confessed acolyte of the left is unimpressive for the
most obvious of reasons, as you are well aware.

I trust those who have demonstrated expertise and success without
resorting to deride them for their political beliefs.

In am not deriding him for his beliefs. I am simply taking note and
account of those beliefs and exercising a little basic source-criticism
(as taught in the first few weeks of any decent social sciences course).

Apply whatever term you like, such as "source-based criticism", but it s
still bias.

Post by JNugent

Post by Pamela
Larry Summers knows far better than most how America operates. He's
able to speak without bias as he doesn't have a dog in this fight.

That's a good one. Obama wouldn't have appointed him had he been a
genuine political neutral. That's the way things work in Washington.

Larry Summers lacks motive to significantly skew his message to the UK.
Would you rather be advised by propsective Trump negotiators about what
the UK should do?

Post by JNugent

Post by Pamela
By the way, how many ballot papers do you know have the parties'
manifesto items printed on them?

Oh, many, many tens of millions. And that's just in the UK since that
policy was introduced.

Can you provide a link to what you mean.

Post by JNugent
What does it have to do with the former US Treasury Secretary?

"By the way" usually means "by the way".

[abelard]

Post by JNugent
Quoting a self-confessed acolyte of the left is unimpressive for the
most obvious of reasons, as you are well aware.

such an optimist

[Keema's Nan]

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the UK
to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic Council
in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris Johnson's "do or die"
strategy of leaving the EU at the end of October, whatever the
circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK of any leverage in future
trade talks.

Anyone who thinks that the UK has any kind of ‘leverage’ with the USA
whether we leave the EU with or without a deal is extremely naive.

We have no leverage whatsoever. The US exporters will undercut our own
prices, and cheapskate Brits will buy the lot, egged on by the MSM who will
have wall to wall articles on the ‘bargains' to be had.

Post by Pamela
---
Mr Summers told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: "Look at it from
America’s point of view: Britain has much less to give than Europe as a
whole did, therefore less reason for the United States to make
concessions. You make more concessions dealing with a wealthy man than
you do dealing with a poor man."
"Second, Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate. Britain has
nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon. When you have a
desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest bargain."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-trade-deal-boris-
johnson-larry-summers-obama-dominic-raab-a9040951.html

[Norman Wells]

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the UK
to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic Council
in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris Johnson's "do or die"
strategy of leaving the EU at the end of October, whatever the
circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK of any leverage in future
trade talks.

Anyone who thinks that the UK has any kind of ‘leverage’ with the USA
whether we leave the EU with or without a deal is extremely naive.
We have no leverage whatsoever. The US exporters will undercut our own
prices, and cheapskate Brits will buy the lot, egged on by the MSM who will
have wall to wall articles on the ‘bargains' to be had.

Then we won't have a deal. We don't have to have one, and we can just
say no.

If the USA wants to be able to sell us their goods without tariff
barriers, that *is* leverage we have. If we are to agree to it, then we
will want something in return that is equally advantageous to us.

What you don't seem to appreciate is that deals have to be mutually
beneficial. They can't just be imposed.

[abelard]

On Thu, 08 Aug 2019 17:45:22 +0100, Keema's Nan

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the UK
to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic Council
in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris Johnson's "do or die"
strategy of leaving the EU at the end of October, whatever the
circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK of any leverage in future
trade talks.

Anyone who thinks that the UK has any kind of ‘leverage’ with the USA
whether we leave the EU with or without a deal is extremely naive.
We have no leverage whatsoever. The US exporters will undercut our own
prices, and cheapskate Brits will buy the lot, egged on by the MSM who will
have wall to wall articles on the ‘bargains' to be had.

i don't know how you can live with the less well off classes getting
lower prices...
but you do suffer valiantly

[Pamela]

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the UK
to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic Council
in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris Johnson's "do or
die" strategy of leaving the EU at the end of October, whatever the
circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK of any leverage in future
trade talks.

Anyone who thinks that the UK has any kind of ‘leverage’ with the
USA whether we leave the EU with or without a deal is extremely naive.
We have no leverage whatsoever. The US exporters will undercut our own
prices, and cheapskate Brits will buy the lot, egged on by the MSM who
will have wall to wall articles on the ‘bargains' to be had.

I have read American officials advising Britain to go and talk to them
about a trade deal after we have left. In other words, at the time we're
at our most vulnerable and in greatest need. Why can't Brexiteers,
including Boris, see America is planning to screw us good and proper?

Our enemies must be laughing at how easy it was to knock a significant
power like Britain into economic decline and, furthermore, to prise it
away from its allies.

Post by Pamela
Mr Summers told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: "Look at it from
America’s point of view: Britain has much less to give than Europe as
a whole did, therefore less reason for the United States to make
concessions. You make more concessions dealing with a wealthy man than
you do dealing with a poor man."
"Second, Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate. Britain has
nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon. When you have a
desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest bargain."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-trade-
deal-boris-johnson-larry-summers-obama-dominic-raab-a9040951.html

[Norman Wells]

Post by Pamela
I have read American officials advising Britain to go and talk to them
about a trade deal after we have left. In other words, at the time we're
at our most vulnerable and in greatest need.

In need of what exactly? Can you tell us please?

Post by Pamela
Why can't Brexiteers,
including Boris, see America is planning to screw us good and proper?

The thing is, we're not actually allowed to negotiate trade deals
outside the EU until we've left and, although it may have escaped your
attention, we still haven't yet.

Post by Pamela
Our enemies must be laughing at how easy it was to knock a significant
power like Britain into economic decline and, furthermore, to prise it
away from its allies.

All I saw from the Brexit: Behind Closed Doors documentary was the EU
laughing. Are they the 'enemies' you're referring to?

It's worth another look:

[Keema's Nan]

Post by Pamela

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the UK
to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic Council
in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris Johnson's "do or
die" strategy of leaving the EU at the end of October, whatever the
circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK of any leverage in future
trade talks.

Anyone who thinks that the UK has any kind of ‘leverage’ with the
USA whether we leave the EU with or without a deal is extremely naive.
We have no leverage whatsoever. The US exporters will undercut our own
prices, and cheapskate Brits will buy the lot, egged on by the MSM who
will have wall to wall articles on the ‘bargains' to be had.

I have read American officials advising Britain to go and talk to them
about a trade deal after we have left. In other words, at the time we're
at our most vulnerable and in greatest need. Why can't Brexiteers,
including Boris, see America is planning to screw us good and proper?

The yanks are not going to screw us; because as history has shown, we are far
more efficient at screwing ourselves.

They will just adopt the US business model (sell at a loss initially,
bankrupt the local competition, then you can charge what you like), and the
British consumer will do the rest.

Post by Pamela
Our enemies must be laughing at how easy it was to knock a significant
power like Britain into economic decline and, furthermore, to prise it
away from its allies.

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Pamela
Mr Summers told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: "Look at it from
America’s point of view: Britain has much less to give than Europe as
a whole did, therefore less reason for the United States to make
concessions. You make more concessions dealing with a wealthy man than
you do dealing with a poor man."
"Second, Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate. Britain has
nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon. When you have a
desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest bargain."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-trade-
deal-boris-johnson-larry-summers-obama-dominic-raab-a9040951.html

[Pamela]

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Pamela

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the
UK to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic
Council in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris
Johnson's "do or die" strategy of leaving the EU at the end of
October, whatever the circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK
of any leverage in future trade talks.

Anyone who thinks that the UK has any kind of ‘leverage’ with the
USA whether we leave the EU with or without a deal is extremely naive.
We have no leverage whatsoever. The US exporters will undercut our
own prices, and cheapskate Brits will buy the lot, egged on by the
MSM who will have wall to wall articles on the ‘bargains' to be
had.

I have read American officials advising Britain to go and talk to them
about a trade deal after we have left. In other words, at the time
we're at our most vulnerable and in greatest need. Why can't
Brexiteers, including Boris, see America is planning to screw us good
and proper?

The yanks are not going to screw us; because as history has shown, we
are far more efficient at screwing ourselves.
They will just adopt the US business model (sell at a loss initially,
bankrupt the local competition, then you can charge what you like), and
the British consumer will do the rest.

I suspect this US administration will go for a more direct approach
because Trump needs kudos for the presidential election next Autumn and
that means waving around a highly advantageous trade deal for America.

Watch out Boris. Trump especially likes screwing his allies, if Canada
and NATO are anything to go by. They're less likely to go on the
offensive and confront him on like North Korea and Russia do.

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Pamela
Our enemies must be laughing at how easy it was to knock a significant
power like Britain into economic decline and, furthermore, to prise it
away from its allies.

Post by Pamela
Mr Summers told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: "Look at it from
America’s point of view: Britain has much less to give than
Europe as a whole did, therefore less reason for the United States
to make concessions. You make more concessions dealing with a
wealthy man than you do dealing with a poor man."
"Second, Britain has no leverage. Britain is desperate. Britain has
nothing else. It needs an agreement very soon. When you have a
desperate partner, that’s when you strike the hardest bargain."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-us-trade-
deal-boris-johnson-larry-summers-obama-dominic-raab-a9040951.html

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the UK
to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic Council
in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris Johnson's "do or die"
strategy of leaving the EU at the end of October, whatever the
circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK of any leverage in future
trade talks.

Anyone who thinks that the UK has any kind of ‘leverage’ with the USA
whether we leave the EU with or without a deal is extremely naive.
We have no leverage whatsoever. The US exporters will undercut our own
prices, and cheapskate Brits will buy the lot, egged on by the MSM who will
have wall to wall articles on the ‘bargains' to be had.

Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food? Personally,
I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be exceptionally
good, since I hate to eat fat); but I'm sure there are some families who
have to make harder choices. OTOH, maybe there really are no poor
people any more.

[Norman Wells]

Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?  Personally,
I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be exceptionally
good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally eats
any fat that I trim off :-) She lived on a farm, and values the lives
of animals to much to waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat
fat. Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with? Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more - presumably
because some of it is wasted. Maybe the wasted fat goes into animal
feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

[abelard]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally eats
any fat that I trim off :-) She lived on a farm, and values the lives
of animals to much to waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat
fat. Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with? Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more - presumably
because some of it is wasted. Maybe the wasted fat goes into animal
feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

you're famous!

jack sprat could eat no fat.
his wife could eat no lean.
but, together both,
they licked the platter clean.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally eats
any fat that I trim off :-) She lived on a farm, and values the lives
of animals to much to waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat
fat. Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with? Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more - presumably
because some of it is wasted. Maybe the wasted fat goes into animal
feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

you're famous!
jack sprat could eat no fat.
his wife could eat no lean.
but, together both,
they licked the platter clean.

Takes me back. :-)

[kat]

Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food? Personally, I go
for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be exceptionally good, since
I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally eats any fat
that I trim off :-)  She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to
much to waste bits of them.  Me, I just don't like to eat fat.  Or maybe it's
gristle I struggle with?  Anyway, it's just a weirdness of mine, and it means I
have to pay a bit more - presumably because some of it is wasted.  Maybe the
wasted fat goes into animal feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial
product?

There's fat and there's fat. The fat that marbles the meat is good, it makes it
cook better. The big bits on the side of a steak or chop, that's needs to be
rendered down a lot, but even then I am not keen either.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)  She lived on a farm, and values the
lives of animals to much to waste bits of them.  Me, I just don't like
to eat fat.  Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with?  Anyway, it's just
a weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more -
presumably because some of it is wasted.  Maybe the wasted fat goes
into animal feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

There's fat and there's fat.  The fat that marbles the meat is good, it
makes it cook better.  The big bits on the side of a steak or chop,
that's needs to be rendered down a lot, but even then I am not keen either.

I can believe that, but I expect it takes good care to not let it make
the meat tough. I will only eat fillet when I'm out. I've been
disappointed too many times to risk anything else. Our little lad, on
the other hand, loves sirloin; but like me cuts all the fat off. Or
asks one of us to do it - he's not too good with cutlery yet.

[Keema's Nan]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-) She lived on a farm, and values the
lives of animals to much to waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like
to eat fat. Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with? Anyway, it's just
a weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more -
presumably because some of it is wasted. Maybe the wasted fat goes
into animal feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

There's fat and there's fat. The fat that marbles the meat is good, it
makes it cook better. The big bits on the side of a steak or chop,
that's needs to be rendered down a lot, but even then I am not keen either.

I can believe that, but I expect it takes good care to not let it make
the meat tough. I will only eat fillet when I'm out. I've been
disappointed too many times to risk anything else. Our little lad, on
the other hand, loves sirloin; but like me cuts all the fat off. Or
asks one of us to do it - he's not too good with cutlery yet.

It is strange how for some people the leanest cuts are the best quality, and
yet for others - slow grown fatty steaks command very high prices due to
their taste.

The problem in the UK is that we have no idea how to cook meat properly.
Basically, all we do is burn the outsides as fast as possible and the state
of the middle is just pot luck.

Not only that, but because of BSE all those years ago most beef sold in the
UK is likely to be just under 3 years old, which gives the cow no time to
develop fat marbling and flavour.

If you really don’t mind spending big money on quality beef, try Basque
beef. You can get it mail order from a few outlets in the UK; this is one -
https://www.turnerandgeorge.co.uk/our-meat/beef/spanish-beef/basque.html

[Norman Wells]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I can believe that, but I expect it takes good care to not let it make
the meat tough.  I will only eat fillet when I'm out.  I've been
disappointed too many times to risk anything else.  Our little lad, on
the other hand, loves sirloin; but like me cuts all the fat off.  Or
asks one of us to do it - he's not too good with cutlery yet.

A trainee Millennial then?

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I can believe that, but I expect it takes good care to not let it make
the meat tough.  I will only eat fillet when I'm out.  I've been
disappointed too many times to risk anything else.  Our little lad, on
the other hand, loves sirloin; but like me cuts all the fat off.  Or
asks one of us to do it - he's not too good with cutlery yet.

A trainee Millennial then?

I don't know - he likes meat (and in adult portions), which I take as a
good sign; he likes 'inappropriate' video games and youtube videos,
which I'm happy to encourage; and is obsessed with war history (again,
I'm more than happy to encourage). The cutlery thing is a bit of an
oddity. We assume it's because he's left-handed (it caused all kinds of
problems learning to write - trying not to get his hand covered in ink
has him hovering his hand over the paper) - he tries to use a knife in
his right hand, like we right-handers do; but I think it would be better
if he swapped over, which he refuses to do.

[kat]

Post by Norman Wells

I can believe that, but I expect it takes good care to not let it make the
meat tough.  I will only eat fillet when I'm out.  I've been disappointed too
many times to risk anything else.  Our little lad, on the other hand, loves
sirloin; but like me cuts all the fat off.  Or asks one of us to do it - he's
not too good with cutlery yet.

A trainee Millennial then?

I don't know - he likes meat (and in adult portions), which I take as a good
sign; he likes 'inappropriate' video games and youtube videos, which I'm happy
to encourage; and is obsessed with war history (again, I'm more than happy to
encourage).  The cutlery thing is a bit of an oddity.  We assume it's because
he's left-handed (it caused all kinds of problems learning to write - trying not
to get his hand covered in ink has him hovering his hand over the paper) - he
tries to use a knife in his right hand, like we right-handers do; but I think it
would be better if he swapped over, which he refuses to do.

My son is right handed, but he uses his left for his knife and his right for his
fork. And so does his other half. She is also righ handed. A match made in
heaven!

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I can believe that, but I expect it takes good care to not let it make
the meat tough.  I will only eat fillet when I'm out.  I've been
disappointed too many times to risk anything else.  Our little lad, on
the other hand, loves sirloin; but like me cuts all the fat off.  Or
asks one of us to do it - he's not too good with cutlery yet.

A trainee Millennial then?

BTW, I don't know how recently you had kids in school; but judging by
what passes for eduction these days, I have become reluctant to blame
the kids themsselves for any developmental shortcomings that may be
attributed to them.

[Norman Wells]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I can believe that, but I expect it takes good care to not let it
make the meat tough.  I will only eat fillet when I'm out.  I've been
disappointed too many times to risk anything else.  Our little lad,
on the other hand, loves sirloin; but like me cuts all the fat off.
Or asks one of us to do it - he's not too good with cutlery yet.

A trainee Millennial then?

BTW, I don't know how recently you had kids in school; but judging by
what passes for eduction these days, I have become reluctant to blame
the kids themsselves for any developmental shortcomings that may be
attributed to them.

Oh, come now! They spend far more time at home than they do in school.

I blame the parents myself.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I can believe that, but I expect it takes good care to not let it
make the meat tough.  I will only eat fillet when I'm out.  I've
been disappointed too many times to risk anything else.  Our little
lad, on the other hand, loves sirloin; but like me cuts all the fat
off. Or asks one of us to do it - he's not too good with cutlery yet.

A trainee Millennial then?

BTW, I don't know how recently you had kids in school; but judging by
what passes for eduction these days, I have become reluctant to blame
the kids themsselves for any developmental shortcomings that may be
attributed to them.

Oh, come now!  They spend far more time at home than they do in school.
I blame the parents myself.

I always used to, too. Personally, I see it as a battle between school
and parents now. I feel that the schools have a subversive attitude
regarding any bad influences the children may be subjected to at home.

[Norman Wells]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally eats
any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives
of animals to much to waste bits of them.  Me, I just don't like to eat
fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
  Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with?  Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more - presumably
because some of it is wasted.  Maybe the wasted fat goes into animal
feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them.  Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree.  But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
  Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with?  Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more - presumably
because some of it is wasted.  Maybe the wasted fat goes into animal
feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I don't
like it, and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't deep fry
anything.

[Norman Wells]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them.  Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree.  But the best meat
has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same.  It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
  Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with?  Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more - presumably
because some of it is wasted.  Maybe the wasted fat goes into animal
feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I don't
like it, and will use butter if she's not looking.  We don't deep fry
anything.

What, not even Mars bars?

How do you cook them then?

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to
be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to
waste bits of them.  Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree.  But the best meat
has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere
these days don't taste quite the same.  It's probably not fat as such
that I object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather
than eat it) - it's things that I can't identify.

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
  Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with?  Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more -
presumably because some of it is wasted.  Maybe the wasted fat goes
into animal feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I
don't like it, and will use butter if she's not looking.  We don't
deep fry anything.

What, not even Mars bars?
How do you cook them then?

Has my (hopefully slightly amusing) nym convinced you that I am
Scottish, by any chance? :-) Perhaps I ought to change it. But I don't
even eat 'raw' Mars bars. I don't like sweet things at all. Only
savoury stuff for me.

[Keema's Nan]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to
be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to
waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat
has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere
these days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such
that I object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather
than eat it) - it's things that I can't identify.

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with? Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more -
presumably because some of it is wasted. Maybe the wasted fat goes
into animal feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I
don't like it, and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't
deep fry anything.

What, not even Mars bars?
How do you cook them then?

Has my (hopefully slightly amusing) nym convinced you that I am
Scottish, by any chance? :-) Perhaps I ought to change it. But I don't
even eat 'raw' Mars bars. I don't like sweet things at all. Only
savoury stuff for me.

No. He has been outed as a troll, and he is just trying to start an argument
by giving what he considers to be controversial responses to perfectly
innocent discussions.

I’m glad you haven’t risen to the puerile bait, because he believes he is
really clever. I’m sure that when compared to a slug, he may have a chance
- but ignore him and he will go away; and generally causes less damage than a
slug.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to
be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to
waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat
has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere
these days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such
that I object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather
than eat it) - it's things that I can't identify.

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with? Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more -
presumably because some of it is wasted. Maybe the wasted fat goes
into animal feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I
don't like it, and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't
deep fry anything.

What, not even Mars bars?
How do you cook them then?

Has my (hopefully slightly amusing) nym convinced you that I am
Scottish, by any chance? :-) Perhaps I ought to change it. But I don't
even eat 'raw' Mars bars. I don't like sweet things at all. Only
savoury stuff for me.

No. He has been outed as a troll, and he is just trying to start an argument
by giving what he considers to be controversial responses to perfectly
innocent discussions.
I’m glad you haven’t risen to the puerile bait, because he believes he is
really clever. I’m sure that when compared to a slug, he may have a chance
- but ignore him and he will go away; and generally causes less damage than a
slug.

I don't care enough to argue with random people on usenet :-)

[Norman Wells]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I
don't like it, and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't
deep fry anything.

What, not even Mars bars?
How do you cook them then?

Has my (hopefully slightly amusing) nym convinced you that I am
Scottish, by any chance? :-) Perhaps I ought to change it. But I don't
even eat 'raw' Mars bars. I don't like sweet things at all. Only
savoury stuff for me.

No. He has been outed as a troll, and he is just trying to start an
argument by giving what he considers to be controversial responses to
perfectly innocent discussions.
I’m glad you haven’t risen to the puerile bait, because he believes he is
really clever. I’m sure that when compared to a slug, he may have a
chance - but ignore him and he will go away; and generally causes less
damage than a slug.

I don't care enough to argue with random people on usenet :-)

No sense of humour, that's the trouble with Keema. He thinks
everything's an argument.

Oh, and I've just got your Saint-Saëns reference (if that's what it was).

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I
don't like it, and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't
deep fry anything.

What, not even Mars bars?
How do you cook them then?

Has my (hopefully slightly amusing) nym convinced you that I am
Scottish, by any chance? :-) Perhaps I ought to change it. But I don't
even eat 'raw' Mars bars. I don't like sweet things at all. Only
savoury stuff for me.

No. He has been outed as a troll, and he is just trying to start an
argument by giving what he considers to be controversial responses to
perfectly innocent discussions.
I’m glad you haven’t risen to the puerile bait, because he believes he is
really clever. I’m sure that when compared to a slug, he may have a
chance - but ignore him and he will go away; and generally causes
less damage than a slug.

I don't care enough to argue with random people on usenet :-)

No sense of humour, that's the trouble with Keema.  He thinks
everything's an argument.

I think it pays to give everyone the benefit of the doubt on usenet.
Unless one argues for fun.

Oh, and I've just got your Saint-Saëns reference (if that's what it was).

It is indeed. But clearly not as obvious as I'd hoped. :-)

[Pamela]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

On 9 Aug 2019, Dan S. MacAbre wrote (in article

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I
don't like it, and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't
deep fry anything.

What, not even Mars bars?
How do you cook them then?

Has my (hopefully slightly amusing) nym convinced you that I am
Scottish, by any chance? :-) Perhaps I ought to change it. But I
don't even eat 'raw' Mars bars. I don't like sweet things at all.
Only savoury stuff for me.

No. He has been outed as a troll, and he is just trying to start an
argument by giving what he considers to be controversial responses to
perfectly innocent discussions.
I'm glad you haven't risen to the puerile bait, because he
believes he is really clever. I'm sure that when compared to a
slug, he may have a chance - but ignore him and he will go away; and
generally causes less damage than a slug.

I don't care enough to argue with random people on usenet :-)

No sense of humour, that's the trouble with Keema.  He thinks
everything's an argument.

I think it pays to give everyone the benefit of the doubt on usenet.
Unless one argues for fun.

Isn't that how Keema has just described Norman above? It seems a fair
description.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Oh, and I've just got your Saint-Sans reference (if that's what it
was).

It is indeed. But clearly not as obvious as I'd hoped. :-)

[Pamela]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them.  Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree.  But the best meat
has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

Dry sausages? You must be going out of your way to get those. Most
supermarkets have a range of half-decent sausages -- and I don't mean
Wall's.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
  Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with?  Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more - presumably
because some of it is wasted.  Maybe the wasted fat goes into animal
feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I don't
like it, and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't deep fry
anything.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them.  Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree.  But the best meat
has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

Dry sausages? You must be going out of your way to get those. Most
supermarkets have a range of half-decent sausages -- and I don't mean
Wall's.

I'm just finding that not much fat comes out of the ones I've bought
recently (local farm shop and The Black Farmer). Sounds good at first,
but they just stick to the pan, leak a bit of water, and burn a bit. It
only seems remarkable to me because there was a time when sausages
seemed to be all fat, judging by what was left in the pan.

Do they still make Wall's sausages? Like Bull's Eye Brown and Old
Holborn - not something I've seen for a long time.

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
  Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with?  Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more - presumably
because some of it is wasted.  Maybe the wasted fat goes into animal
feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I don't
like it, and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't deep fry
anything.

[Pamela]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to
be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to
waste bits of them.  Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree.  But the best meat
has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere
these days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such
that I object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather
than eat it) - it's things that I can't identify.

Dry sausages? You must be going out of your way to get those. Most
supermarkets have a range of half-decent sausages -- and I don't mean
Wall's.

I'm just finding that not much fat comes out of the ones I've bought
recently (local farm shop and The Black Farmer). Sounds good at first,
but they just stick to the pan, leak a bit of water, and burn a bit. It
only seems remarkable to me because there was a time when sausages
seemed to be all fat, judging by what was left in the pan.

Those sausages sound far dry. There's an award winning master butcher I
sometimes visit and his sausages are nothing like what you describe.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Do they still make Wall's sausages? Like Bull's Eye Brown and Old
Holborn - not something I've seen for a long time.

I see them in the supermarket but am never tempted to try the sad looking
offerings.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with?  Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more -
presumably because some of it is wasted.  Maybe the wasted fat goes
into animal feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I
don't like it, and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to
be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to
waste bits of them.  Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree.  But the best meat
has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere
these days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such
that I object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather
than eat it) - it's things that I can't identify.

Dry sausages? You must be going out of your way to get those. Most
supermarkets have a range of half-decent sausages -- and I don't mean
Wall's.

I'm just finding that not much fat comes out of the ones I've bought
recently (local farm shop and The Black Farmer). Sounds good at first,
but they just stick to the pan, leak a bit of water, and burn a bit. It
only seems remarkable to me because there was a time when sausages
seemed to be all fat, judging by what was left in the pan.

Those sausages sound far dry. There's an award winning master butcher I
sometimes visit and his sausages are nothing like what you describe.

We have three places nearby where good sausages are to be had. The
missus is having her car MOT'd this morning near one of them, and I'm
hoping that she will return with sausages, prosciutto, and a few steak pies.

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Do they still make Wall's sausages? Like Bull's Eye Brown and Old
Holborn - not something I've seen for a long time.

I see them in the supermarket but am never tempted to try the sad looking
offerings.

Interesting that they've survived, though, when so many other things
have disappeared.

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with?  Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more -
presumably because some of it is wasted.  Maybe the wasted fat goes
into animal feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I
don't like it, and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't

[Keema's Nan]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to
be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to
waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat
has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere
these days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such
that I object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather
than eat it) - it's things that I can't identify.

Dry sausages? You must be going out of your way to get those. Most
supermarkets have a range of half-decent sausages -- and I don't mean
Wall's.

I'm just finding that not much fat comes out of the ones I've bought
recently (local farm shop and The Black Farmer). Sounds good at first,
but they just stick to the pan, leak a bit of water, and burn a bit. It
only seems remarkable to me because there was a time when sausages
seemed to be all fat, judging by what was left in the pan.

Those sausages sound far dry. There's an award winning master butcher I
sometimes visit and his sausages are nothing like what you describe.

We have three places nearby where good sausages are to be had. The
missus is having her car MOT'd this morning near one of them, and I'm
hoping that she will return with sausages, prosciutto, and a few steak pies.

I suppose it is a difficult balancing act making decent sausages. Put too
little fat in, and all you get is dry pork in a condom. Put too much fat in,
and although the meat stays moist, when the condom is cut the fat spurts out
all over the plate.

Unless you are one of my mother’s generation who prick sausages before
cooking, guaranteeing they will be dry when eaten because all the fat has run
out as soon as they became hot.

I think, as with most meat these days - the problem is with killing animals
after a pitifully short life so that they do not have time to put on any fat.
The ‘bad cholesterol’ police have done such a good job on animal fats
that there is only a small minority of people who will touch the stuff these
days, for fear of gaining an instant heart attack.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Do they still make Wall's sausages? Like Bull's Eye Brown and Old
Holborn - not something I've seen for a long time.

I see them in the supermarket but am never tempted to try the sad looking
offerings.

Interesting that they've survived, though, when so many other things
have disappeared.

They are a way of using up waste meat that would otherwise go for pet food.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

The secret is not to throw it away, but keep it in the fridge, in a small
container as ‘dripping’. You can then baste other things with it and
slowly build up a very tasty amount of fat for subsequent frying.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with? Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more -
presumably because some of it is wasted. Maybe the wasted fat goes
into animal feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I
don't like it, and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't

[Joe]

On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 11:32:02 +0100

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I do like goose fat for that.

The secret is not to throw it away, but keep it in the fridge, in a
small container as ‘dripping’. You can then baste other things with
it and slowly build up a very tasty amount of fat for subsequent
frying.

"Harga's beefy hands came reluctantly into view.
"I was only scraping the old fat out of the pan," he mumbled.
"I see. And how long have we known each other, Sham?" said Vimes, with
terrible kindness.
"Years, Cap'n," said Harga. "You bin coming in here nearly every day,
reg'lar. One of my best customers."
Vimes leaned over the counter until his nose was level with the squashy
pink thing in the middle of Har-ga's face. "And in all that time, have
you ever changed the fat?" he demanded.
Harga tried to back away. "Well-"
"It's been like a friend to me, that old fat," said Vimes. "There's
little black bits in there I've grown to know and love. It's a meal in
itself."

T. Pratchett
Guards! Guards!

[Keema's Nan]

Post by Joe
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 11:32:02 +0100

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I do like goose fat for that.

The secret is not to throw it away, but keep it in the fridge, in a
small container as ‘dripping’. You can then baste other things with
it and slowly build up a very tasty amount of fat for subsequent
frying.

"Harga's beefy hands came reluctantly into view.
"I was only scraping the old fat out of the pan," he mumbled.
"I see. And how long have we known each other, Sham?" said Vimes, with
terrible kindness.
"Years, Cap'n," said Harga. "You bin coming in here nearly every day,
reg'lar. One of my best customers."
Vimes leaned over the counter until his nose was level with the squashy
pink thing in the middle of Har-ga's face. "And in all that time, have
you ever changed the fat?" he demanded.
Harga tried to back away. "Well-"
"It's been like a friend to me, that old fat," said Vimes. "There's
little black bits in there I've grown to know and love. It's a meal in
itself."
T. Pratchett
Guards! Guards!

Some people don’t know what they are missing, and by the sound of it - they
never will.

[abelard]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them.  Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree.  But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically recovered/reclaimed
meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat (MDM) is a paste-like meat
product produced by forcing pureed or ground beef, pork, mutton,
turkey or chicken, under high pressure through a sieve or similar
device to separate the bone from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...

olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them.  Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree.  But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically recovered/reclaimed
meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat (MDM) is a paste-like meat
product produced by forcing pureed or ground beef, pork, mutton,
turkey or chicken, under high pressure through a sieve or similar
device to separate the bone from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget things
so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

[Keema's Nan]

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically recovered/reclaimed
meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat (MDM) is a paste-like meat
product produced by forcing pureed or ground beef, pork, mutton,
turkey or chicken, under high pressure through a sieve or similar
device to separate the bone from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget things
so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too obsessed with
their own existence these days to be arsed to cook properly; plus I think
they do it on purpose (burn things) in order to either get attention or make
sure someone else gets to do the cooking next time.

They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the kitchen for
years on end, turning out excellent food but never getting any
acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don’t do proper cooking,
just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the microwave.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically recovered/reclaimed
meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat (MDM) is a paste-like meat
product produced by forcing pureed or ground beef, pork, mutton,
turkey or chicken, under high pressure through a sieve or similar
device to separate the bone from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget things
so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too obsessed with
their own existence these days to be arsed to cook properly; plus I think
they do it on purpose (burn things) in order to either get attention or make
sure someone else gets to do the cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the kitchen for
years on end, turning out excellent food but never getting any
acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don’t do proper cooking,
just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of the
cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange kind of
satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy. The missus
just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on the cars and
fixing broken stuff around the house; but that, apparently, does not
count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis is that men make life
possible; and women make life pleasant and worth the effort.

[Yellow]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically recovered/reclaimed
meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat (MDM) is a paste-like meat
product produced by forcing pureed or ground beef, pork, mutton,
turkey or chicken, under high pressure through a sieve or similar
device to separate the bone from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget things
so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too obsessed with
their own existence these days to be arsed to cook properly; plus I think
they do it on purpose (burn things) in order to either get attention or make
sure someone else gets to do the cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the kitchen for
years on end, turning out excellent food but never getting any
acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t do proper cooking,
just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of the
cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange kind of
satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy. The missus
just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on the cars and
fixing broken stuff around the house; but that, apparently, does not
count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis is that men make life
possible; and women make life pleasant and worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and will
probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically recovered/reclaimed
meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat (MDM) is a paste-like meat
product produced by forcing pureed or ground beef, pork, mutton,
turkey or chicken, under high pressure through a sieve or similar
device to separate the bone from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget things
so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too obsessed with
their own existence these days to be arsed to cook properly; plus I think
they do it on purpose (burn things) in order to either get attention or make
sure someone else gets to do the cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the kitchen for
years on end, turning out excellent food but never getting any
acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t do proper cooking,
just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of the
cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange kind of
satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy. The missus
just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on the cars and
fixing broken stuff around the house; but that, apparently, does not
count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis is that men make life
possible; and women make life pleasant and worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and will
probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

When half of the people emptying my bins are women, and half of all
primary school teachers are men, then I'll agree that we are getting
there; but since we have not yet been turned into hermaphrodites, it
seems that some separation of roles is inevitable.

[Incubus]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically recovered/reclaimed
meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat (MDM) is a paste-like meat
product produced by forcing pureed or ground beef, pork, mutton,
turkey or chicken, under high pressure through a sieve or similar
device to separate the bone from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget things
so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too obsessed with
their own existence these days to be arsed to cook properly; plus I think
they do it on purpose (burn things) in order to either get attention or make
sure someone else gets to do the cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the kitchen for
years on end, turning out excellent food but never getting any
acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t do proper cooking,
just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of the
cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange kind of
satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy. The missus
just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on the cars and
fixing broken stuff around the house; but that, apparently, does not
count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis is that men make life
possible; and women make life pleasant and worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and will
probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

When half of the people emptying my bins are women, and half of all
primary school teachers are men, then I'll agree that we are getting
there; but since we have not yet been turned into hermaphrodites, it
seems that some separation of roles is inevitable.

Indeed, and whether that separation is due to distribution of traits or natural
inclination, the underlying assumption is that it is caused by "oppression".
Given that 95% of all workplace fatalities are male, I'm not sure that argument
holds water.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/pdf/fatalinjuries.pdf

The gender pay gap has also been debunked.

https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/how-come-nobody-talks-about-the-gender-workplace-death-gap/

I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love to have more
female developers. They simply aren't applying for the jobs in the first
instance yet the "lack" of female developers is being blamed on bias. I'm not
sure how you can be biased against people who aren't even applying for jobs but
there you go.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically recovered/reclaimed
meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat (MDM) is a paste-like meat
product produced by forcing pureed or ground beef, pork, mutton,
turkey or chicken, under high pressure through a sieve or similar
device to separate the bone from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget things
so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too obsessed with
their own existence these days to be arsed to cook properly; plus I think
they do it on purpose (burn things) in order to either get attention or make
sure someone else gets to do the cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the kitchen for
years on end, turning out excellent food but never getting any
acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t do proper cooking,
just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of the
cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange kind of
satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy. The missus
just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on the cars and
fixing broken stuff around the house; but that, apparently, does not
count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis is that men make life
possible; and women make life pleasant and worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and will
probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

When half of the people emptying my bins are women, and half of all
primary school teachers are men, then I'll agree that we are getting
there; but since we have not yet been turned into hermaphrodites, it
seems that some separation of roles is inevitable.

Indeed, and whether that separation is due to distribution of traits or natural
inclination, the underlying assumption is that it is caused by "oppression".
Given that 95% of all workplace fatalities are male, I'm not sure that argument
holds water.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/pdf/fatalinjuries.pdf
The gender pay gap has also been debunked.
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/how-come-nobody-talks-about-the-gender-workplace-death-gap/
I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love to have more
female developers. They simply aren't applying for the jobs in the first
instance yet the "lack" of female developers is being blamed on bias. I'm not
sure how you can be biased against people who aren't even applying for jobs but
there you go.

I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming. They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves. I'm not even saying that most
men are, either; but at least some are. Obsession is what makes things
happen. Are there any more Ada Lovelaces out there?

[Joe]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 10:35:55 +0100

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus
I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love to
have more female developers. They simply aren't applying for the
jobs in the first instance yet the "lack" of female developers is
being blamed on bias. I'm not sure how you can be biased against
people who aren't even applying for jobs but there you go.

I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming. They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves. I'm not even saying that
most men are, either; but at least some are. Obsession is what makes
things happen. Are there any more Ada Lovelaces out there?

My daughter is a systems analyst, having got into computing with MS
Access work involving VBA.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Joe
On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 10:35:55 +0100

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus
I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love to
have more female developers. They simply aren't applying for the
jobs in the first instance yet the "lack" of female developers is
being blamed on bias. I'm not sure how you can be biased against
people who aren't even applying for jobs but there you go.

I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming. They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves. I'm not even saying that
most men are, either; but at least some are. Obsession is what makes
things happen. Are there any more Ada Lovelaces out there?

My daughter is a systems analyst, having got into computing with MS
Access work involving VBA.

I'm very pleased to hear that. I quite like what can be done with VBA.
My son likes to play games, but has zero interest in programming. He's
only nine, though.

[tim...]

Post by Joe
On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 10:35:55 +0100

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus
I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love to
have more female developers. They simply aren't applying for the
jobs in the first instance yet the "lack" of female developers is
being blamed on bias. I'm not sure how you can be biased against
people who aren't even applying for jobs but there you go.

I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming. They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves. I'm not even saying that
most men are, either; but at least some are. Obsession is what makes
things happen. Are there any more Ada Lovelaces out there?

My daughter is a systems analyst, having got into computing with MS
Access work involving VBA.

I thought the term systems analyst died out 20 years ago

tim

Post by Joe
--
Joe

[Joe]

On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 14:09:03 +0100

Post by tim...

Post by Joe
On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 10:35:55 +0100

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus
I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love
to have more female developers. They simply aren't applying for
the jobs in the first instance yet the "lack" of female
developers is being blamed on bias. I'm not sure how you can be
biased against people who aren't even applying for jobs but
there you go.

I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming. They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves. I'm not even saying that
most men are, either; but at least some are. Obsession is what
makes things happen. Are there any more Ada Lovelaces out there?

My daughter is a systems analyst, having got into computing with MS
Access work involving VBA.

I thought the term systems analyst died out 20 years ago

It probably did, I've no idea what her actual job title is. But she
does what I knew as systems analysis.

[Pamela]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat
has to be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus
generally eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much
to waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best
meat has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist
and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be
everywhere these days don't taste quite the same. It's probably
not fat as such that I object to the most (although I will still
cut it off, rather than eat it) - it's things that I can't
identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically
recovered/reclaimed meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat
(MDM) is a paste-like meat product produced by forcing pureed or
ground beef, pork, mutton, turkey or chicken, under high pressure
through a sieve or similar device to separate the bone from the
edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget
things so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too
obsessed with their own existence these days to be arsed to cook
properly; plus I think they do it on purpose (burn things) in order
to either get attention or make sure someone else gets to do the
cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the
kitchen for years on end, turning out excellent food but never
getting any acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t
do proper cooking, just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the
microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of
the cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange
kind of satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy.
The missus just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on
the cars and fixing broken stuff around the house; but that,
apparently, does not count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis
is that men make life possible; and women make life pleasant and
worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and
will probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

When half of the people emptying my bins are women, and half of all
primary school teachers are men, then I'll agree that we are getting
there; but since we have not yet been turned into hermaphrodites, it
seems that some separation of roles is inevitable.

Indeed, and whether that separation is due to distribution of traits or
natural inclination, the underlying assumption is that it is caused by
"oppression". Given that 95% of all workplace fatalities are male, I'm
not sure that argument holds water.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/pdf/fatalinjuries.pdf
The gender pay gap has also been debunked.
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/how-come-
nobody-talks-abou
t-the-gender-workplace-death-gap/
I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love to
have more female developers. They simply aren't applying for the jobs
in the first instance yet the "lack" of female developers is being
blamed on bias. I'm not sure how you can be biased against people who
aren't even applying for jobs but there you go.

I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming. They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves. I'm not even saying that most
men are, either; but at least some are. Obsession is what makes things
happen. Are there any more Ada Lovelaces out there?

Grace Hopper?

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat
has to be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus
generally eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much
to waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best
meat has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist
and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be
everywhere these days don't taste quite the same. It's probably
not fat as such that I object to the most (although I will still
cut it off, rather than eat it) - it's things that I can't
identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically
recovered/reclaimed meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat
(MDM) is a paste-like meat product produced by forcing pureed or
ground beef, pork, mutton, turkey or chicken, under high pressure
through a sieve or similar device to separate the bone from the
edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget
things so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too
obsessed with their own existence these days to be arsed to cook
properly; plus I think they do it on purpose (burn things) in order
to either get attention or make sure someone else gets to do the
cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the
kitchen for years on end, turning out excellent food but never
getting any acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t
do proper cooking, just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the
microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of
the cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange
kind of satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy.
The missus just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on
the cars and fixing broken stuff around the house; but that,
apparently, does not count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis
is that men make life possible; and women make life pleasant and
worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and
will probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

When half of the people emptying my bins are women, and half of all
primary school teachers are men, then I'll agree that we are getting
there; but since we have not yet been turned into hermaphrodites, it
seems that some separation of roles is inevitable.

Indeed, and whether that separation is due to distribution of traits or
natural inclination, the underlying assumption is that it is caused by
"oppression". Given that 95% of all workplace fatalities are male, I'm
not sure that argument holds water.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/pdf/fatalinjuries.pdf
The gender pay gap has also been debunked.
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/how-come-
nobody-talks-abou
t-the-gender-workplace-death-gap/
I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love to
have more female developers. They simply aren't applying for the jobs
in the first instance yet the "lack" of female developers is being
blamed on bias. I'm not sure how you can be biased against people who
aren't even applying for jobs but there you go.

I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming. They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves. I'm not even saying that most
men are, either; but at least some are. Obsession is what makes things
happen. Are there any more Ada Lovelaces out there?

Grace Hopper?

Is that a real name, or is it a pun, like Grasshopper?

Sorry. Only kidding.

[abelard]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat
has to be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus
generally eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much
to waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best
meat has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist
and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be
everywhere these days don't taste quite the same. It's probably
not fat as such that I object to the most (although I will still
cut it off, rather than eat it) - it's things that I can't
identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically
recovered/reclaimed meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat
(MDM) is a paste-like meat product produced by forcing pureed or
ground beef, pork, mutton, turkey or chicken, under high pressure
through a sieve or similar device to separate the bone from the
edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget
things so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too
obsessed with their own existence these days to be arsed to cook
properly; plus I think they do it on purpose (burn things) in order
to either get attention or make sure someone else gets to do the
cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the
kitchen for years on end, turning out excellent food but never
getting any acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t
do proper cooking, just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the
microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of
the cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange
kind of satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy.
The missus just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on
the cars and fixing broken stuff around the house; but that,
apparently, does not count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis
is that men make life possible; and women make life pleasant and
worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and
will probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

When half of the people emptying my bins are women, and half of all
primary school teachers are men, then I'll agree that we are getting
there; but since we have not yet been turned into hermaphrodites, it
seems that some separation of roles is inevitable.

Indeed, and whether that separation is due to distribution of traits or
natural inclination, the underlying assumption is that it is caused by
"oppression". Given that 95% of all workplace fatalities are male, I'm
not sure that argument holds water.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/pdf/fatalinjuries.pdf
The gender pay gap has also been debunked.
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/how-come-
nobody-talks-abou
t-the-gender-workplace-death-gap/
I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love to
have more female developers. They simply aren't applying for the jobs
in the first instance yet the "lack" of female developers is being
blamed on bias. I'm not sure how you can be biased against people who
aren't even applying for jobs but there you go.

I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming. They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves. I'm not even saying that most
men are, either; but at least some are. Obsession is what makes things
happen. Are there any more Ada Lovelaces out there?

Grace Hopper?

Is that a real name, or is it a pun, like Grasshopper?

it's the bin that catches the cuttings

cars and computers are getting easier because you often
just have to pull out a unit...and replace it with a clone
and programming is not much different...

the garage mechanic just plugs in a computer which tell her
(of course it's always a him!) what to do...
the computer even tells me when to pump up the tires

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Sorry. Only kidding.

[tim...]

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat
has to be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus
generally eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much
to waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best
meat has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist
and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be
everywhere these days don't taste quite the same. It's probably
not fat as such that I object to the most (although I will still
cut it off, rather than eat it) - it's things that I can't
identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically
recovered/reclaimed meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat
(MDM) is a paste-like meat product produced by forcing pureed or
ground beef, pork, mutton, turkey or chicken, under high pressure
through a sieve or similar device to separate the bone from the
edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget
things so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too
obsessed with their own existence these days to be arsed to cook
properly; plus I think they do it on purpose (burn things) in order
to either get attention or make sure someone else gets to do the
cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the
kitchen for years on end, turning out excellent food but never
getting any acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t
do proper cooking, just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the
microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of
the cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange
kind of satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy.
The missus just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on
the cars and fixing broken stuff around the house; but that,
apparently, does not count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis
is that men make life possible; and women make life pleasant and
worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and
will probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

When half of the people emptying my bins are women, and half of all
primary school teachers are men, then I'll agree that we are getting
there; but since we have not yet been turned into hermaphrodites, it
seems that some separation of roles is inevitable.

Indeed, and whether that separation is due to distribution of traits or
natural inclination, the underlying assumption is that it is caused by
"oppression". Given that 95% of all workplace fatalities are male, I'm
not sure that argument holds water.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/pdf/fatalinjuries.pdf
The gender pay gap has also been debunked.
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/how-come-
nobody-talks-abou
t-the-gender-workplace-death-gap/
I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love to
have more female developers. They simply aren't applying for the jobs
in the first instance yet the "lack" of female developers is being
blamed on bias. I'm not sure how you can be biased against people who
aren't even applying for jobs but there you go.

I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming. They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves. I'm not even saying that most
men are, either; but at least some are. Obsession is what makes things
happen. Are there any more Ada Lovelaces out there?

Grace Hopper?

I had to look her up

she's dead as well

[Pamela]

Post by tim...

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

On 9 Aug 2019, Dan S. MacAbre wrote (in article

On Fri, 9 Aug 2019 14:26:54 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre"

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat
has to be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus
generally eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much
to waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the
best meat has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it
moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be
everywhere these days don't taste quite the same. It's
probably not fat as such that I object to the most (although I
will still cut it off, rather than eat it) - it's things that
I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically
recovered/reclaimed meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat
(MDM) is a paste-like meat product produced by forcing pureed
or ground beef, pork, mutton, turkey or chicken, under high
pressure through a sieve or similar device to separate the bone
from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget
things so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too
obsessed with their own existence these days to be arsed to cook
properly; plus I think they do it on purpose (burn things) in
order to either get attention or make sure someone else gets to
do the cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the
kitchen for years on end, turning out excellent food but never
getting any acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists
don?t do proper cooking, just buy vegan ready meals and put them
in the microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most
of the cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a
strange kind of satisfaction from producing something that people
enjoy. The missus just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy
working on the cars and fixing broken stuff around the house; but
that, apparently, does not count as 'housework'. My personal
hypothesis is that men make life possible; and women make life
pleasant and worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and
will probably continue to be so until another generation or three
has shuffled off this mortal coil.

When half of the people emptying my bins are women, and half of all
primary school teachers are men, then I'll agree that we are getting
there; but since we have not yet been turned into hermaphrodites, it
seems that some separation of roles is inevitable.

Indeed, and whether that separation is due to distribution of traits
or natural inclination, the underlying assumption is that it is
caused by "oppression". Given that 95% of all workplace fatalities
are male, I'm not sure that argument holds water.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/pdf/fatalinjuries.pdf
The gender pay gap has also been debunked.
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/how-come-
nobody-talks-abou t-the-gender-workplace-death-gap/
I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love to
have more female developers. They simply aren't applying for the
jobs in the first instance yet the "lack" of female developers is
being blamed on bias. I'm not sure how you can be biased against
people who aren't even applying for jobs but there you go.

I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming. They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves. I'm not even saying that most
men are, either; but at least some are. Obsession is what makes
things happen. Are there any more Ada Lovelaces out there?

Grace Hopper?

I had to look her up
she's dead as well

You don't say.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by tim...

Post by Pamela

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Yellow

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat
has to be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus
generally eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much
to waste bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best
meat has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist
and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be
everywhere these days don't taste quite the same. It's probably
not fat as such that I object to the most (although I will still
cut it off, rather than eat it) - it's things that I can't
identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically
recovered/reclaimed meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat
(MDM) is a paste-like meat product produced by forcing pureed or
ground beef, pork, mutton, turkey or chicken, under high pressure
through a sieve or similar device to separate the bone from the
edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget
things so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too
obsessed with their own existence these days to be arsed to cook
properly; plus I think they do it on purpose (burn things) in order
to either get attention or make sure someone else gets to do the
cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the
kitchen for years on end, turning out excellent food but never
getting any acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t
do proper cooking, just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the
microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims.  I do most of
the cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange
kind of satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy.
The missus just regards it as work.  Similarly, I enjoy working on
the cars and fixing broken stuff around the house; but that,
apparently, does not count as 'housework'.  My personal hypothesis
is that men make life possible; and women make life pleasant and
worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and
will probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

When half of the people emptying my bins are women, and half of all
primary school teachers are men, then I'll agree that we are getting
there; but since we have not yet been turned into hermaphrodites, it
seems that some separation of roles is inevitable.

Indeed, and whether that separation is due to distribution of traits or
natural inclination, the underlying assumption is that it is caused by
"oppression". Given that 95% of all workplace fatalities are male, I'm
not sure that argument holds water.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/pdf/fatalinjuries.pdf
The gender pay gap has also been debunked.
https://www.investors.com/politics/commentary/how-come-
nobody-talks-abou
t-the-gender-workplace-death-gap/
I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love to
have more female developers.  They simply aren't applying for the jobs
in the first instance yet the "lack" of female developers is being
blamed on bias.  I'm not sure how you can be biased against people who
aren't even applying for jobs but there you go.

I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.  They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves.  I'm not even saying that most
men are, either; but at least some are.  Obsession is what makes things
happen.  Are there any more Ada Lovelaces out there?

Grace Hopper?

I had to look her up
she's dead as well

Nearly invented the Spacehopper, I believe.

[Andy Walker]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

You could [but perhaps had better not] start with SWMBO, who has
a PhD in the subject. She is not single, of course. My own experience
in this matter consisted largely of teaching programming to mathematics
students; there was no significant difference between the interest and
ability that I ever noticed between males and females. But maths has a
much better gender balance, at the undergraduate level, than physics or
computing, or [the other way] chemistry or biology. I'm tolerably sure
that the reasons are historical and social rather than differing levels
of ability, interest, obsession, etc.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves.

Computers or computing? The trouble is that computers have
followed the same evolutionary path as cars, only much faster and to
greater extremes. You can mess around as an amateur, but the big
companies have spoiled almost all the fun.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

    You could [but perhaps had better not] start with SWMBO, who has
a PhD in the subject.  She is not single, of course.  My own experience
in this matter consisted largely of teaching programming to mathematics
students;  there was no significant difference between the interest and
ability that I ever noticed between males and females.  But maths has a
much better gender balance, at the undergraduate level, than physics or
computing, or [the other way] chemistry or biology.  I'm tolerably sure
that the reasons are historical and social rather than differing levels
of ability, interest, obsession, etc.

Okay, well I'm learning that things have changed a lot recently. :-) Or
should I say reminded. Sometimes I get stuck in my own past. I should
remember that there was something of a drive to get women interested in
computing. It looks like it worked.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
        They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves.

    Computers or computing?  The trouble is that computers have
followed the same evolutionary path as cars, only much faster and to
greater extremes.  You can mess around as an amateur, but the big
companies have spoiled almost all the fun.

True. Computers don't seem to be as exciting as they used to be. I can
still work fairly confidently with cars, and they need a lot less fixing
than they used to, but it doesn't seem like fun any more. Too many
complications squeezed under the bonnet.

[Incubus]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

    You could [but perhaps had better not] start with SWMBO, who has
a PhD in the subject.  She is not single, of course.  My own experience
in this matter consisted largely of teaching programming to mathematics
students;  there was no significant difference between the interest and
ability that I ever noticed between males and females.  But maths has a
much better gender balance, at the undergraduate level, than physics or
computing, or [the other way] chemistry or biology.  I'm tolerably sure
that the reasons are historical and social rather than differing levels
of ability, interest, obsession, etc.

Okay, well I'm learning that things have changed a lot recently. :-) Or
should I say reminded. Sometimes I get stuck in my own past. I should
remember that there was something of a drive to get women interested in
computing. It looks like it worked.

I'm not sure that interest has had much impact on industry. I have worked with
four out of about one thousand developers who were female in the last ten years
or so and one of them used to be a man...

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

    You could [but perhaps had better not] start with SWMBO, who has
a PhD in the subject.  She is not single, of course.  My own experience
in this matter consisted largely of teaching programming to mathematics
students;  there was no significant difference between the interest and
ability that I ever noticed between males and females.  But maths has a
much better gender balance, at the undergraduate level, than physics or
computing, or [the other way] chemistry or biology.  I'm tolerably sure
that the reasons are historical and social rather than differing levels
of ability, interest, obsession, etc.

Okay, well I'm learning that things have changed a lot recently. :-) Or
should I say reminded. Sometimes I get stuck in my own past. I should
remember that there was something of a drive to get women interested in
computing. It looks like it worked.

I'm not sure that interest has had much impact on industry. I have worked with
four out of about one thousand developers who were female in the last ten years
or so and one of them used to be a man...

Your sample size is certainly impressive. :-) How do you get to meet so
many developers?

[Incubus]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

    You could [but perhaps had better not] start with SWMBO, who has
a PhD in the subject.  She is not single, of course.  My own experience
in this matter consisted largely of teaching programming to mathematics
students;  there was no significant difference between the interest and
ability that I ever noticed between males and females.  But maths has a
much better gender balance, at the undergraduate level, than physics or
computing, or [the other way] chemistry or biology.  I'm tolerably sure
that the reasons are historical and social rather than differing levels
of ability, interest, obsession, etc.

Okay, well I'm learning that things have changed a lot recently. :-) Or
should I say reminded. Sometimes I get stuck in my own past. I should
remember that there was something of a drive to get women interested in
computing. It looks like it worked.

I'm not sure that interest has had much impact on industry. I have worked with
four out of about one thousand developers who were female in the last ten years
or so and one of them used to be a man...

Your sample size is certainly impressive. :-) How do you get to meet so
many developers?

I worked at a large company for a couple of years and they have a high turnover
of developers.

[tim...]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Andy Walker

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

You could [but perhaps had better not] start with SWMBO, who has
a PhD in the subject. She is not single, of course. My own experience
in this matter consisted largely of teaching programming to mathematics
students; there was no significant difference between the interest and
ability that I ever noticed between males and females. But maths has a
much better gender balance, at the undergraduate level, than physics or
computing, or [the other way] chemistry or biology. I'm tolerably sure
that the reasons are historical and social rather than differing levels
of ability, interest, obsession, etc.

Okay, well I'm learning that things have changed a lot recently. :-) Or
should I say reminded. Sometimes I get stuck in my own past. I should
remember that there was something of a drive to get women interested in
computing. It looks like it worked.

I'm not sure that interest has had much impact on industry. I have worked with
four out of about one thousand developers who were female in the last ten years
or so and one of them used to be a man...

Your sample size is certainly impressive. :-) How do you get to meet so
many developers?

I've probably worked with about 1000, though I couldn't get close to naming
them

but there were definitely more than 4 women in the sample, perhaps as many
as 100.

[abelard]

Post by tim...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Andy Walker

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

You could [but perhaps had better not] start with SWMBO, who has
a PhD in the subject. She is not single, of course. My own experience
in this matter consisted largely of teaching programming to mathematics
students; there was no significant difference between the interest and
ability that I ever noticed between males and females. But maths has a
much better gender balance, at the undergraduate level, than physics or
computing, or [the other way] chemistry or biology. I'm tolerably sure
that the reasons are historical and social rather than differing levels
of ability, interest, obsession, etc.

Okay, well I'm learning that things have changed a lot recently. :-) Or
should I say reminded. Sometimes I get stuck in my own past. I should
remember that there was something of a drive to get women interested in
computing. It looks like it worked.

I'm not sure that interest has had much impact on industry. I have worked with
four out of about one thousand developers who were female in the last ten years
or so and one of them used to be a man...

Your sample size is certainly impressive. :-) How do you get to meet so
many developers?

I've probably worked with about 1000, though I couldn't get close to naming
them
but there were definitely more than 4 women in the sample, perhaps as many
as 100.

they're a higher risk to employ...some suddenly 'discover' they're
pregnant
and bliar et al introduced all manner of special treatment

[Andy Walker]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

     You could [but perhaps had better not] start with SWMBO, who has
a PhD in the subject.  She is not single, of course.  My own experience
in this matter consisted largely of teaching programming to mathematics
students;  [...].

Okay, well I'm learning that things have changed a lot recently. :-)

FTAOD, neither SWMBO's PhD nor my teaching experience are exactly
"recent"; after 1985-ish, Nott'm set up a CompSci dept, and so Maths was
effectively debarred from teaching [or researching] computing. I taught
game theory instead, which was a lot more fun.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Or should I say reminded. Sometimes I get stuck in my own past. I
should remember that there was something of a drive to get women
interested in computing. It looks like it worked.

I doubt whether it did. There have always been women interested
in computing -- when they got a decent chance to do it. Maths was a good
route in because there is no great opposition to girls doing maths; so
it was a bit of a blow when computing stopped being regarded as part of
maths. Physics, computing and engineering are not good routes because
they're perceived as boys' subjects at school. Whether "drives" do much
to change those perceptions is dubious.

I don't know the extent to which the same cultural norms apply
elsewhere in the world. I expect there are studies ....

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

     You could [but perhaps had better not] start with SWMBO, who has
a PhD in the subject.  She is not single, of course.  My own experience
in this matter consisted largely of teaching programming to mathematics
students;  [...].

Okay, well I'm learning that things have changed a lot recently. :-)

    FTAOD, neither SWMBO's PhD nor my teaching experience are exactly
"recent";  after 1985-ish, Nott'm set up a CompSci dept, and so Maths was
effectively debarred from teaching [or researching] computing.  I taught
game theory instead, which was a lot more fun.

Working with computers seemed to me like an unattainable dream in the
80's, although I got there eventually. We had a DEC mainframe at work
(I don't remember which model - it was in the 'computer room'), and I
somehow discovered that pressing CTRL-C would get you out of the boring
stock control program, and after that, one somehow just finds things out
by trial and error. I had home computers at home, but CTRL-C doesn't do
anything one those, so I'm not sure where I ever got the idea from. I
found an adventure game on the DEC, and I just loved it.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Or should I say reminded.  Sometimes I get stuck in my own past.  I
should remember that there was something of a drive to get women
interested in computing.  It looks like it worked.

    I doubt whether it did.  There have always been women interested
in computing -- when they got a decent chance to do it.  Maths was a good
route in because there is no great opposition to girls doing maths;  so
it was a bit of a blow when computing stopped being regarded as part of
maths.  Physics, computing and engineering are not good routes because
they're perceived as boys' subjects at school.  Whether "drives" do much
to change those perceptions is dubious.

We are now looking for a secondary school (or whatever they call them
now) for our young lad. The prospectuses are full of photo's of girls
doing science in safety specs. It doesn't ostensibly seem that science
and engineering are boys' subjects, but they may not be portraying the
reality of parents' expectations.

    I don't know the extent to which the same cultural norms apply
elsewhere in the world.  I expect there are studies ....

[abelard]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
We are now looking for a secondary school (or whatever they call them
now) for our young lad. The prospectuses are full of photo's of girls
doing science in safety specs. It doesn't ostensibly seem that science
and engineering are boys' subjects, but they may not be portraying the
reality of parents' expectations.

they're trying to correct your false consciousness

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
We are now looking for a secondary school (or whatever they call them
now) for our young lad. The prospectuses are full of photo's of girls
doing science in safety specs. It doesn't ostensibly seem that science
and engineering are boys' subjects, but they may not be portraying the
reality of parents' expectations.

they're trying to correct your false consciousness

Certainly possible. I don't even understand my own thoughts, never mind
anyone else's.

[kat]

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
We are now looking for a secondary school (or whatever they call them
now) for our young lad.  The prospectuses are full of photo's of girls
doing science in safety specs.  It doesn't ostensibly seem that science
and engineering are boys' subjects, but they may not be portraying the
reality of parents' expectations.

they're trying to correct your false consciousness

Certainly possible.  I don't even understand my own thoughts, never mind anyone
else's.

As far as I know the science subjects are compulsory through to GCSE level (
they were for my kids ) so girls will be doing them. The bias is in the photo's!

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by kat

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
We are now looking for a secondary school (or whatever they call them
now) for our young lad.  The prospectuses are full of photo's of girls
doing science in safety specs.  It doesn't ostensibly seem that science
and engineering are boys' subjects, but they may not be portraying the
reality of parents' expectations.

they're trying to correct your false consciousness

Certainly possible.  I don't even understand my own thoughts, never
mind anyone else's.

As far as I know the science subjects are compulsory through to GCSE
level ( they were for my kids ) so girls will be doing them.  The bias
is in the photo's!

I remember when I started at the local grammar, I borrowed my aunties'
chemistry books as a sort of preparation. All my dad's family (two
boys, four girls) went there. I don't suppose sciences were compulsory
in those days, but I know that my sister had to take them in the 70's.
She had absolutely no interest in any subject. Very practical and
persistent, though. Even now, she's the one that can get things done
when it comes to dealing with bureaucracy.

I work in a 'science' place (chromatography), although I do computing.
The new hires (as they now call them) are about 50% young women. It
doesn't seem like STEM is boys' stuff any more.

[kat]

Post by kat

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
We are now looking for a secondary school (or whatever they call them
now) for our young lad.  The prospectuses are full of photo's of girls
doing science in safety specs.  It doesn't ostensibly seem that science
and engineering are boys' subjects, but they may not be portraying the
reality of parents' expectations.

they're trying to correct your false consciousness

Certainly possible.  I don't even understand my own thoughts, never mind
anyone else's.

As far as I know the science subjects are compulsory through to GCSE level (
they were for my kids ) so girls will be doing them.  The bias is in the photo's!

I remember when I started at the local grammar, I borrowed my aunties' chemistry
books as a sort of preparation.  All my dad's family (two boys, four girls) went
there.  I don't suppose sciences were compulsory in those days, but I know that
my sister had to take them in the 70's. She had absolutely no interest in any
subject.  Very practical and persistent, though.  Even now, she's the one that
can get things done when it comes to dealing with bureaucracy.
I work in a 'science' place (chromatography), although I do computing. The new
hires (as they now call them) are about 50% young women.  It doesn't seem like
STEM is boys' stuff any more.

In the 60's, at Grammar school, I had to do them, all of them, until O level.
Then we had choices, and I can't remember if it was possible to do none at all.
Probably, but many girls did Biology, or Human Biology ( there were both
options), in which I had no interest, some did Chemistry and/or Physics. I did
Physics, I was better at that than Chemistry, and ISTR the class being full.

All were offered at A level, again I did Physics. There were several of us, and
the same with the other sciences.

A few years later the school went comprehensive, and mixed with the boys from
next door. I recently saw a comment that at some point around then the girls
had to take an O level in either needlework or cookery. It was like it regressed!

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by kat

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by kat

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
We are now looking for a secondary school (or whatever they call them
now) for our young lad.  The prospectuses are full of photo's of girls
doing science in safety specs.  It doesn't ostensibly seem that science
and engineering are boys' subjects, but they may not be portraying the
reality of parents' expectations.

they're trying to correct your false consciousness

Certainly possible.  I don't even understand my own thoughts, never
mind anyone else's.

As far as I know the science subjects are compulsory through to GCSE
level ( they were for my kids ) so girls will be doing them.  The
bias is in the photo's!

I remember when I started at the local grammar, I borrowed my aunties'
chemistry books as a sort of preparation.  All my dad's family (two
boys, four girls) went there.  I don't suppose sciences were
compulsory in those days, but I know that my sister had to take them
in the 70's. She had absolutely no interest in any subject.  Very
practical and persistent, though.  Even now, she's the one that can
get things done when it comes to dealing with bureaucracy.
I work in a 'science' place (chromatography), although I do computing.
The new hires (as they now call them) are about 50% young women.  It
doesn't seem like STEM is boys' stuff any more.

In the 60's, at Grammar school, I had to do them, all of them, until O
level. Then we had choices, and I can't remember if it was possible to
do none at all. Probably, but many girls did Biology, or Human Biology (
there were both options), in which I had no interest,  some did
Chemistry and/or Physics.  I did Physics, I was better at that than
Chemistry, and ISTR the class being full.
All were offered at A level, again I did Physics.  There were several of
us, and the same with the other sciences.
A few years later the school went comprehensive, and mixed with the boys
from next door.  I recently saw a comment that at some point around then
the girls had to take an O level in either needlework or cookery.  It
was like it regressed!

We are looking at schools for our lad. Out of interest, we looked at
the school that used to be my (boys only) grammar school, even though we
are out of the catchment area. It was like a hell on Earth. Due to
closures of other schools, every possible space has been filled with
Portakabins, including the quadrangles and the beautiful old assembly
hall. The airy, open corridors have been enclosed, so that the whole
place smells like a hospital. The glass paned doors are now heavy duty,
metal clad things. It all looks run down. After about five minutes, I
had to get out as quickly as I could. It's as if someone has done it
all out of resentment.

[abelard]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
We are now looking for a secondary school (or whatever they call them
now) for our young lad. The prospectuses are full of photo's of girls
doing science in safety specs. It doesn't ostensibly seem that science
and engineering are boys' subjects, but they may not be portraying the
reality of parents' expectations.

they're trying to correct your false consciousness

Certainly possible. I don't even understand my own thoughts, never mind
anyone else's.

that's only because you are reasonably sane...

which also will soon be a hate crime

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
We are now looking for a secondary school (or whatever they call them
now) for our young lad. The prospectuses are full of photo's of girls
doing science in safety specs. It doesn't ostensibly seem that science
and engineering are boys' subjects, but they may not be portraying the
reality of parents' expectations.

they're trying to correct your false consciousness

Certainly possible. I don't even understand my own thoughts, never mind
anyone else's.

that's only because you are reasonably sane...

Possibly, but not something I'd bet my life savings on :-)

Post by abelard
which also will soon be a hate crime

Only if you don't make every effort to conceal it.

[abelard]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
We are now looking for a secondary school (or whatever they call them
now) for our young lad. The prospectuses are full of photo's of girls
doing science in safety specs. It doesn't ostensibly seem that science
and engineering are boys' subjects, but they may not be portraying the
reality of parents' expectations.

they're trying to correct your false consciousness

Certainly possible. I don't even understand my own thoughts, never mind
anyone else's.

that's only because you are reasonably sane...

Possibly, but not something I'd bet my life savings on :-)

just another indication that you are reasonably sane...

which is...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by abelard
which also will soon be a hate crime

Only if you don't make every effort to conceal it.

an indication that you need to work harder at your cover!

[Incubus]

Post by Andy Walker

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

     You could [but perhaps had better not] start with SWMBO, who has
a PhD in the subject.  She is not single, of course.  My own experience
in this matter consisted largely of teaching programming to mathematics
students;  [...].

Okay, well I'm learning that things have changed a lot recently. :-)

FTAOD, neither SWMBO's PhD nor my teaching experience are exactly
"recent"; after 1985-ish, Nott'm set up a CompSci dept, and so Maths was
effectively debarred from teaching [or researching] computing. I taught
game theory instead, which was a lot more fun.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Or should I say reminded. Sometimes I get stuck in my own past. I
should remember that there was something of a drive to get women
interested in computing. It looks like it worked.

I doubt whether it did. There have always been women interested
in computing -- when they got a decent chance to do it.

When I grew up, having a decent change to do computing meant having parents
that would buy you a microcomputer or having a school that had a computer club.
Boys and girls had equal chances in those regards.

[kat]

Post by Incubus

Post by Andy Walker

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

     You could [but perhaps had better not] start with SWMBO, who has
a PhD in the subject.  She is not single, of course.  My own experience
in this matter consisted largely of teaching programming to mathematics
students;  [...].

Okay, well I'm learning that things have changed a lot recently. :-)

FTAOD, neither SWMBO's PhD nor my teaching experience are exactly
"recent"; after 1985-ish, Nott'm set up a CompSci dept, and so Maths was
effectively debarred from teaching [or researching] computing. I taught
game theory instead, which was a lot more fun.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Or should I say reminded. Sometimes I get stuck in my own past. I
should remember that there was something of a drive to get women
interested in computing. It looks like it worked.

I doubt whether it did. There have always been women interested
in computing -- when they got a decent chance to do it.

When I grew up, having a decent change to do computing meant having parents
that would buy you a microcomputer or having a school that had a computer club.
Boys and girls had equal chances in those regards.

When I grew up these things didn't exist!

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Incubus

Post by Andy Walker

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

     You could [but perhaps had better not] start with SWMBO, who has
a PhD in the subject.  She is not single, of course.  My own experience
in this matter consisted largely of teaching programming to mathematics
students;  [...].

Okay, well I'm learning that things have changed a lot recently. :-)

FTAOD, neither SWMBO's PhD nor my teaching experience are exactly
"recent"; after 1985-ish, Nott'm set up a CompSci dept, and so Maths was
effectively debarred from teaching [or researching] computing. I taught
game theory instead, which was a lot more fun.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Or should I say reminded. Sometimes I get stuck in my own past. I
should remember that there was something of a drive to get women
interested in computing. It looks like it worked.

I doubt whether it did. There have always been women interested
in computing -- when they got a decent chance to do it.

When I grew up, having a decent change to do computing meant having parents
that would buy you a microcomputer or having a school that had a computer club.
Boys and girls had equal chances in those regards.

I was old enough to be able to buy my own first computer. The feeble
yet awesome Vic-20 :-) The excitement of learning assembly language on
such a thing can not be described. Since it had only 3k of memory, the
assembler/disassembler had to be run from a cartridge pushed into the
back where the bus was exposed.

[kat]

Post by Incubus
I work in the software industry where hiring managers would love to have more
female developers.  They simply aren't applying for the jobs in the first
instance yet the "lack" of female developers is being blamed on bias.  I'm not
sure how you can be biased against people who aren't even applying for jobs but
there you go.

I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer programming.
They will work with them, but I never see any actual fascination with the things
themselves.  I'm not even saying that most men are, either; but at least some
are.  Obsession is what makes things happen.  Are there any more Ada Lovelaces
out there?

My sister-in-law did nothing else all her working life. As indeed did her
brother, my husband, he still does a bit. You need the right sort of mind.
Despite being mathematical my mind couldn't do it, my thinking process is
different. One certainly needs that obsession, and maybe it is more common in
those with a "male" brain.

[Yellow]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I don't know one single women who has any interest in computer
programming.

<Raises hand>

I was a software engineer from the age of 20 (when I finished my
apprenticeship) until my mid 40s when I moved to a job in test.

I mainly worked in factory automation and machine tools but also I did a
bit of military.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
They will work with them, but I never see any actual
fascination with the things themselves. I'm not even saying that most
men are, either; but at least some are. Obsession is what makes things
happen. Are there any more Ada Lovelaces out there?

You need to stop with is the "they" as we are all individual whether we
are male or female.

But what I will say is that from my age group, working in engineering
was extremely difficult and when I got my apprenticeship for example
their main worry was how it was going to work out having a girl among
all the boys - as I was their first.

Then later, when I was a self-employed software engineer, I was told
twice that I would not be engaged because I was female.

But of course, it is so much easier to say "well, girls just aren't
interested" but I do hope that things are slowly improving and people
are more able to do what they want to do and what they are good at
rather than being hindered because of their sex.

[abelard]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
When half of the people emptying my bins are women, and half of all
primary school teachers are men, then I'll agree that we are getting
there; but since we have not yet been turned into hermaphrodites, it
seems that some separation of roles is inevitable.

drink more tap water

[Yellow]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget things
so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too obsessed with
their own existence these days to be arsed to cook properly; plus I think
they do it on purpose (burn things) in order to either get attention or make
sure someone else gets to do the cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the kitchen for
years on end, turning out excellent food but never getting any
acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t do proper cooking,
just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of the
cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange kind of
satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy. The missus
just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on the cars and
fixing broken stuff around the house; but that, apparently, does not
count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis is that men make life
possible; and women make life pleasant and worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and will
probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

When half of the people emptying my bins are women, and half of all
primary school teachers are men, then I'll agree that we are getting
there; but since we have not yet been turned into hermaphrodites, it
seems that some separation of roles is inevitable.

Chucking at me inequalities against men is not an excuse for
inequalities against women. Or perhaps you think it is?

And it is certainly not an excuse for the "everyday sexism" so
beautifully displayed above.

But as far as I am aware there is no barrier against women emptying bins
any more than there are barriers against to men cleaning toilets, so
that is a silly example.

The teacher one though is of course more serious - for the children. But
the problem we have is two fold - first, primary school teachers
traditionally get paid less than men because traditionally it is women
who teach small children and second, men are pressured by other men that
it is a wee bit cissy.

Also, and I experienced this going into engineering, it can be quite
lonely when you are the only person of the opposite sex working within a
group so where there are barriers it is when it comes to socialising. So
we need more men to get more men and as we have seen trying to get more
women into engineering, it is not easy to get over that hurdle.

[Incubus]

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically recovered/reclaimed
meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat (MDM) is a paste-like meat
product produced by forcing pureed or ground beef, pork, mutton,
turkey or chicken, under high pressure through a sieve or similar
device to separate the bone from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget things
so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too obsessed with
their own existence these days to be arsed to cook properly; plus I think
they do it on purpose (burn things) in order to either get attention or make
sure someone else gets to do the cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the kitchen for
years on end, turning out excellent food but never getting any
acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t do proper cooking,
just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of the
cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange kind of
satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy. The missus
just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on the cars and
fixing broken stuff around the house; but that, apparently, does not
count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis is that men make life
possible; and women make life pleasant and worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and will
probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

Sexism goes both ways. Ignoring that isn't going to change anything, three
generations or none.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Incubus

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically recovered/reclaimed
meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat (MDM) is a paste-like meat
product produced by forcing pureed or ground beef, pork, mutton,
turkey or chicken, under high pressure through a sieve or similar
device to separate the bone from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget things
so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too obsessed with
their own existence these days to be arsed to cook properly; plus I think
they do it on purpose (burn things) in order to either get attention or make
sure someone else gets to do the cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the kitchen for
years on end, turning out excellent food but never getting any
acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t do proper cooking,
just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of the
cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange kind of
satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy. The missus
just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on the cars and
fixing broken stuff around the house; but that, apparently, does not
count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis is that men make life
possible; and women make life pleasant and worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and will
probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

Sexism goes both ways. Ignoring that isn't going to change anything, three
generations or none.

I'd be genuinely interested to see a description of what sexism is. I
have only ever received the impression that it is women being told that
they should be doing everything that men do, because it's so much better
than what women do (which I can guarantee is very unlikely to be true).
I don't see women being proud of what they do: quite the opposite, in
fact, and that seems rather sad to me. Most men aren't proud, either,
but pride in a man is a sin.

[Incubus]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically recovered/reclaimed
meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat (MDM) is a paste-like meat
product produced by forcing pureed or ground beef, pork, mutton,
turkey or chicken, under high pressure through a sieve or similar
device to separate the bone from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget things
so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too obsessed with
their own existence these days to be arsed to cook properly; plus I think
they do it on purpose (burn things) in order to either get attention or make
sure someone else gets to do the cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the kitchen for
years on end, turning out excellent food but never getting any
acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t do proper cooking,
just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of the
cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange kind of
satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy. The missus
just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on the cars and
fixing broken stuff around the house; but that, apparently, does not
count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis is that men make life
possible; and women make life pleasant and worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and will
probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

Sexism goes both ways. Ignoring that isn't going to change anything, three
generations or none.

I'd be genuinely interested to see a description of what sexism is.

To me, it is being irrationally biased against someone because of their gender.
Caroline Lucas' recent stunt is a good example of female sexism. Conversely, I
have a friend who constantly complains about women drivers. To me, that's
sexist; statistics show that women are less likely to have accidents on the
road.

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I
have only ever received the impression that it is women being told that
they should be doing everything that men do, because it's so much better
than what women do (which I can guarantee is very unlikely to be true).
I don't see women being proud of what they do: quite the opposite, in
fact, and that seems rather sad to me. Most men aren't proud, either,
but pride in a man is a sin.

It does seem that women have been taught that traditional female roles are
menial and unworthy of respect. At the same time, some women seem to think
that taking on the very worst of what is considered male behaviour is somehow
liberating.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Incubus

Post by Yellow

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be
exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste
bits of them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these
days don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I
object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat
it) - it's things that I can't identify.

sausage...a condom filled with msm

I know. I try to be selective.

Post by abelard
Mechanically separated meat (MSM), mechanically recovered/reclaimed
meat (MRM), or mechanically deboned meat (MDM) is a paste-like meat
product produced by forcing pureed or ground beef, pork, mutton,
turkey or chicken, under high pressure through a sieve or similar
device to separate the bone from the edible meat ...

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

so you do still have taste buds...
olive oil should be bitter...your companion is italian
so she's far more likely to know how to cook than most
people on planet earth

Mostly. Too fond of Brassica for my liking. And tends to forget things
so they burn. Doesn't pay the utility bills, you see.

My wife does that. I think it is a woman thing. They are too obsessed with
their own existence these days to be arsed to cook properly; plus I think
they do it on purpose (burn things) in order to either get attention or make
sure someone else gets to do the cooking next time.
They probably equate cooking with old housewives stuck in the kitchen for
years on end, turning out excellent food but never getting any
acknowledgement. I suppose that modern feminists don?t do proper cooking,
just buy vegan ready meals and put them in the microwave.

They are, of course, encouraged to feel like victims. I do most of the
cooking here (and make all the bread), because I get a strange kind of
satisfaction from producing something that people enjoy. The missus
just regards it as work. Similarly, I enjoy working on the cars and
fixing broken stuff around the house; but that, apparently, does not
count as 'housework'. My personal hypothesis is that men make life
possible; and women make life pleasant and worth the effort.

While my personal hypothesis is that sexism is alive and well and will
probably continue to be so until another generation or three has
shuffled off this mortal coil.

Sexism goes both ways. Ignoring that isn't going to change anything, three
generations or none.

I'd be genuinely interested to see a description of what sexism is.

To me, it is being irrationally biased against someone because of their gender.
Caroline Lucas' recent stunt is a good example of female sexism. Conversely, I
have a friend who constantly complains about women drivers. To me, that's
sexist; statistics show that women are less likely to have accidents on the
road.

My missus is a much better driver than I am. In fact, I'm a bag of
nerves, and rather hate and avoid it. She does strange things, like
stops dead if a bird flies in front of the car, regardless of what's
behind; but she can usually get us where we need to get.

Post by Incubus

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
I
have only ever received the impression that it is women being told that
they should be doing everything that men do, because it's so much better
than what women do (which I can guarantee is very unlikely to be true).
I don't see women being proud of what they do: quite the opposite, in
fact, and that seems rather sad to me. Most men aren't proud, either,
but pride in a man is a sin.

It does seem that women have been taught that traditional female roles are
menial and unworthy of respect. At the same time, some women seem to think
that taking on the very worst of what is considered male behaviour is somehow
liberating.

Like we all think that everything that all other men do is wonderful :-)

[kat]

Post by Norman Wells

Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food? Personally, I go
for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be exceptionally good,
since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally eats any
fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste bits of
them.  Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree.  But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these days
don't taste quite the same.  It's probably not fat as such that I object to the
most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat it) - it's things that I
can't identify.

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

  Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with?  Anyway, it's just a weirdness of
mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more - presumably because some of it
is wasted.  Maybe the wasted fat goes into animal feed, or 'economy'
sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I don't like it,
and will use butter if she's not looking.  We don't deep fry anything.

Last week I cooked myself some scallops - in olive oil . But I added a knob of
butter just at the end to toss them in. :-)

[Keema's Nan]

Post by Norman Wells

Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food? Personally,
I go
for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be exceptionally good,
since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally eats any
fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste bits of
them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these days
don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I object to
the
most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat it) - it's things that I
can't identify.

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with? Anyway, it's just a weirdness of
mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more - presumably because some of it
is wasted. Maybe the wasted fat goes into animal feed, or 'economy'
sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I don't like it,
and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't deep fry anything.

Last week I cooked myself some scallops - in olive oil . But I added a knob of
butter just at the end to toss them in. :-)

Although, in the case of scallops; the cooking time is meant to be so short
that after turning them over, you would not have much time left to add
anything before removing them from the heat.

Much better to use peanut oil (high smoke point) into a really hot pan and
just give the scallops 60 seconds per side to brown nicely.

[kat]

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Norman Wells

Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food? Personally, I go
for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be exceptionally good,
since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat? No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally eats any
fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to waste bits of
them. Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree. But the best meat has
plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere these days
don't taste quite the same. It's probably not fat as such that I object to
the
most (although I will still cut it off, rather than eat it) - it's things that I
can't identify.

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with? Anyway, it's just a weirdness of
mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more - presumably because some of it
is wasted. Maybe the wasted fat goes into animal feed, or 'economy'
sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I don't like it,
and will use butter if she's not looking. We don't deep fry anything.

Last week I cooked myself some scallops - in olive oil . But I added a knob of
butter just at the end to toss them in. :-)

Although, in the case of scallops; the cooking time is meant to be so short
that after turning them over, you would not have much time left to add
anything before removing them from the heat.
Much better to use peanut oil (high smoke point) into a really hot pan and
just give the scallops 60 seconds per side to brown nicely.

Basically that is what I did - but they were very thick scallops and also still
had the coral so it was a little longer than 60 seconds. The butter knob was
merely being melted for serving. They came out perfect.

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food?
Personally, I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to
be exceptionally good, since I hate to eat fat)

The best meat has the least fat?  No, you've got that wrong.

Okay, I know that's a matter of opinion, since my missus generally
eats any fat that I trim off :-)

You are Jack Sprat, and I claim my five pounds!

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
She lived on a farm, and values the lives of animals to much to
waste bits of them.  Me, I just don't like to eat fat.

Not great hulking expanses of the stuff, I agree.  But the best meat
has plenty of concealed fat which is what keeps it moist and tasty.

If I'm honest, the rather dry sausages that seem to be everywhere
these days don't taste quite the same.  It's probably not fat as such
that I object to the most (although I will still cut it off, rather
than eat it) - it's things that I can't identify.

Post by Norman Wells
And it's a bit difficult cooking roasties or chips without it.

I do like goose fat for that.

Post by Norman Wells

Post by Dan S. MacAbre
  Or maybe it's gristle I struggle with?  Anyway, it's just a
weirdness of mine, and it means I have to pay a bit more -
presumably because some of it is wasted.  Maybe the wasted fat goes
into animal feed, or 'economy' sausages, or some industrial product?

Rendered down it's very useful to cook things in or with.

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I
don't like it, and will use butter if she's not looking.  We don't
deep fry anything.

Last week I cooked myself some scallops - in olive oil .  But I added a
knob of butter just at the end to toss them in. :-)

For some reason, I'm unwilling to eat crustaceans. I'll probably starve
when they decide to make us eat insects. Our little lad can't get
enough of them, though. His mother's influence. It's funny seeing him
try to get meat out of some creature's claw - the sauce goes everywhere.

[kat]

The (Italian) missus insists on olive oil for cooking, although I don't like
it, and will use butter if she's not looking.  We don't deep fry anything.

Last week I cooked myself some scallops - in olive oil .  But I added a knob
of butter just at the end to toss them in. :-)

For some reason, I'm unwilling to eat crustaceans.  I'll probably starve when
they decide to make us eat insects.  Our little lad can't get enough of them,
though.  His mother's influence.  It's funny seeing him try to get meat out of
some creature's claw - the sauce goes everywhere.

Great fun working to get your food. :-) I think the best one has to be snow
crab. But preferably no sauce, you'd never eat it unless you just suck it off
the shell.

[abelard]

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the UK
to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic Council
in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris Johnson's "do or die"
strategy of leaving the EU at the end of October, whatever the
circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK of any leverage in future
trade talks.

Anyone who thinks that the UK has any kind of ‘leverage’ with the USA
whether we leave the EU with or without a deal is extremely naive.
We have no leverage whatsoever. The US exporters will undercut our own
prices, and cheapskate Brits will buy the lot, egged on by the MSM who will
have wall to wall articles on the ‘bargains' to be had.

Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food? Personally,
I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be exceptionally
good, since I hate to eat fat); but I'm sure there are some families who
have to make harder choices. OTOH, maybe there really are no poor
people any more.

a huge amount of fossil media whining about 'the economy'
is baloney...

look at the groaniad and bbc babbling about 'recession' while
simultaneously complaining about people eating meat and
pollution levels

look at the first two charts here:-
https://www.abelard.org/economics/gross_domestic_product.php

as you say, the standards of living are improving around the world

[Dan S. MacAbre]

Post by abelard

Post by Dan S. MacAbre

Post by Keema's Nan

Post by Pamela
Former US treasury secretary rains on Boris's parade ...
A former US treasury secretary has said it is "delusional" for the UK
to expect a favourable trade deal with America after Brexit.
Larry Summers, who served as director of the National Economic Council
in Barack Obama’s administration, said that Boris Johnson's "do or die"
strategy of leaving the EU at the end of October, whatever the
circumstances, had robbed the "desperate" UK of any leverage in future
trade talks.

Anyone who thinks that the UK has any kind of ‘leverage’ with the USA
whether we leave the EU with or without a deal is extremely naive.
We have no leverage whatsoever. The US exporters will undercut our own
prices, and cheapskate Brits will buy the lot, egged on by the MSM who will
have wall to wall articles on the ‘bargains' to be had.

Will there not be people who will benefit from cheap food? Personally,
I go for quality every time (and for me, meat has to be exceptionally
good, since I hate to eat fat); but I'm sure there are some families who
have to make harder choices. OTOH, maybe there really are no poor
people any more.

a huge amount of fossil media whining about 'the economy'
is baloney...
look at the groaniad and bbc babbling about 'recession' while
simultaneously complaining about people eating meat and
pollution levels
look at the first two charts here:-
https://www.abelard.org/economics/gross_domestic_product.php
as you say, the standards of living are improving around the world

I know. When the 'wrong' people are in power, it's all clouds and no
silver lining.