String ties

[John]

For those of us with older instruments with six-hole bridges: do you use what are variously called string ties or bridge beads, as Strings by Mail sells:

https://www.stringsbymail.com/diamond-secure-string-ties-tieblock-system-7-beads-black-16282.html

https://www.stringsbymail.com/rosette-diamond-guitar-bridge-beads-set-of-7-matte-black-13153.html

Aside from aesthetics or convenience, they are said to improve the break angle of the string and thus offer increased volume. Anyone found that to be the case? Any downsides to using these?

Thanks,
John R.

[Matt Faunce]

Post by John
For those of us with older instruments with six-hole bridges: do you use
https://www.stringsbymail.com/diamond-secure-string-ties-tieblock-system-7-beads-black-16282.html
https://www.stringsbymail.com/rosette-diamond-guitar-bridge-beads-set-of-7-matte-black-13153.html
Aside from aesthetics or convenience, they are said to improve the break
angle of the string and thus offer increased volume. Anyone found that to
be the case? Any downsides to using these?
Thanks,
John R.

Hi John,

After lowering my saddle I discovered the string-break-angle wasn't enough.
Doug Seth recommended I get some string beads, and I did. They did in fact
solve the problem for me. (Thank you to Doug for that!) I do hope to fill
the top of the holes, by gluing strips of ebony to the roof, so I can go
back to tying the strings, because I don't like the look of them.

I don't think the extra volume comes when, for example, playing with your
typical mezzo-forté touch you get forté, but rather it's that if the
string-break angle is too flat the string will lift off the saddle during
the initial up-vibrations when you're playing at a certain strength or
louder. It sounded like I had a loose brace inside chattering.

I suppose that theoretically, for the intensity-levels short of chattering,
but near that, the tone is better. I don't know; if it's true it's too
subtle for me to have noticed -- it's not something I can test by going
back and forth between the setups. In my opinion the beads are only worth
using if you need to avoid a chattering sound at forté or stronger.

[John]

Thanks for your reply, Matt (and thanks again for your sight-reading book, which I bought at least 10 years ago and which served me well). I can see the ties are not in very common use -- those great videos of David Russell don't show them etc. But dang if I ain't curious. I may just try them with my next strings. I'll let the list know about revelations, if any.

John R.

[Matt Faunce]

Post by John
Thanks for your reply, Matt (and thanks again for your sight-reading
book, which I bought at least 10 years ago and which served me well). I
can see the ties are not in very common use -- those great videos of
David Russell don't show them etc. But dang if I ain't curious. I may
just try them with my next strings. I'll let the list know about revelations, if any.
John R.

You're welcome, John.

Have you tried the double-hole tying method? I haven't, but I've seen one
guitar with it. Does it work better? If so, is it impossible, or horribly
impractical, to drill six more holes in my bridge?

[John]

I don't know what you mean by double-hole tying method. I have seen 12-hole bridges, and they seem to be a worthwhile advance. I don't think it would be impractical, much less impossible, to drill six more holes in a bridge -- the string spacing is going to be about the same for any bridge, so there's room. But I'm reluctant to let a repair guy anywhere near my guitars unless really necessary.

Does anyone in this group use string ties?

John

[Gerry]

Post by John
I don't know what you mean by double-hole tying method. I have seen
12-hole bridges, and they seem to be a worthwhile advance. I don't
think it would be impractical, much less impossible, to drill six more
holes in a bridge -- the string spacing is going to be about the same
for any bridge, so there's room. But I'm reluctant to let a repair guy
anywhere near my guitars unless really necessary.

Jeez, it sure is good to have a good guitar mechanic you trust. I wish
I had a auto car mechanic. I've never had both at the same time in
this life...

Post by John
Does anyone in this group use string ties?
John

[I. M. Rowin]

<Does anyone in this group use string ties?

John>

I use them on both of my guitars. Love them, and will never go back to
tying strings. After a little practice I can now change strings in half the
time. The saddles on both instruments are low, so the extra angle keeps the
strings snug.

I think they look cool.

I.M.

[John]

Post by I. M. Rowin
I use them on both of my guitars. Love them, and will never go back to
tying strings. After a little practice I can now change strings in half the
time. The saddles on both instruments are low, so the extra angle keeps the
strings snug.
I think they look cool.

Nice to hear this! The break angle is my main interest.

Which brand/type do you use?

John

[I. M. Rowin]

Post by I. M. Rowin
I use them on both of my guitars. Love them, and will never go back to
tying strings. After a little practice I can now change strings in half the
time. The saddles on both instruments are low, so the extra angle keeps the
strings snug.
I think they look cool.

Nice to hear this! The break angle is my main interest.

Which brand/type do you use?

John

I use these:
https://www.stringsbymail.com/rosette-diamond-guitar-bridge-beads-set-of-7-matte-black-13153.html

I.M.

[sed]

Post by John
Aside from aesthetics or convenience, they are said to improve the
break angle of the string and thus offer increased volume. Anyone

Anyone would have some physical evidence of this?
That seems a bit weird to me. Sound comes from
table moving because tension of the string changes
because it vibrates. I don't see what influence
the "break angle of the string" (what is that?)
can have here.

[d***@gmail.com]

Post by sed

Post by John
Aside from aesthetics or convenience, they are said to improve the
break angle of the string and thus offer increased volume. Anyone

Anyone would have some physical evidence of this?
That seems a bit weird to me. Sound comes from
table moving because tension of the string changes
because it vibrates. I don't see what influence
the "break angle of the string" (what is that?)
can have here.

Ooh, let me try! This is the angle of the string after it goes over the saddle. Imagine if the string went over the saddle but instead of going through a tie-hole it went straight down through the top of the guitar. Awesome "break" angle and the string applies pressure on the saddle, pulling straight downward.

Now, angle the string out a bit so it can go through a tie-hole. Now, the pressure applied to the saddle is not straight down, and is at more of an angle to the saddle with some horizontal force AND vertical force on the saddle.

Now, imagine a standard 6-hole tie-block; The string comes over the saddle, goes diagonally to the tie-hole, and then the string goes back UNDER itself right behind the saddle. When tightened, that tie under the string will pull the string up, adding yet more horizontal force.

The MOST sound comes from the vertical vibrations of the string. Hence our technique of basically pushing the string down and releasing, so the string has more vertical vibration sent to the soundboard.

12-hole tie-blocks and string-ties eliminate the "pulling" up of the string behind the saddle as seen in the standard 6-hole tie-block.

How did I do?

[Andrew Schulman]

Post by d***@gmail.com
How did I do?

You get an A+!

Andrew

[John]

So why doesn't everyone with six-hole tie blocks use them?

John R.

[Gerry]

Post by John
So why doesn't everyone with six-hole tie blocks use them?

Me, I didn't know about them, but I'm certainly interested now.

[dsi1]

Post by Gerry

Post by John
So why doesn't everyone with six-hole tie blocks use them?

Me, I didn't know about them, but I'm certainly interested now.

The rationale for using the beads is that it makes installing new strings easier and faster.

[John]

They do make changing strings faster, but the break angle is (I think) important too. The sharper angle puts more of the string's energy into the soundboard. I wouldn't expect a change in tone, but it may produce more volume.

This should also be the case with 12-hole blocks, and I haven't heard whether they enhance volume as well.

John R.

[dsi1]

Post by John
They do make changing strings faster, but the break angle is (I think) important too. The sharper angle puts more of the string's energy into the soundboard. I wouldn't expect a change in tone, but it may produce more volume.
This should also be the case with 12-hole blocks, and I haven't heard whether they enhance volume as well.
John R.

You can control the string break on a nylon string guitar by varying the tension of the loop of string that goes over the top of the bridge. If you have a tall saddle, you probably should try to reduce the angle. That's just the way I do it. Most classical guitars don't have a tall saddle. If you have a saddle that's quite shallow, the bridge beads might be a good idea.

On a Gibson electric guitar with a stop tailpiece, one would reduce the angle by not screwing the tailpiece down to the deck. This would be important to do if you're breaking strings at the bridge or if you have a vintage Gibson with an old ABR-1 bridge.

[d***@gmail.com]

Post by John
So why doesn't everyone with six-hole tie blocks use them?
John R.

Some people think they are ugly. Some people might think they add weight to the top. Yet others might romanticize the "classic" string tie method.

I just ordered a set from Amazon (Rosette Diamond Secure) so I can check them out. Never been fond of the look myself but worth a shot I think.

[Gerry]

Post by d***@gmail.com

Post by John
So why doesn't everyone with six-hole tie blocks use them?
John R.

Some people think they are ugly. Some people might think they add
weight to the top.

They do: 3 grams. That's a tenth of an ounce.

Post by d***@gmail.com
Yet others might romanticize the "classic" string tie method.
I just ordered a set from Amazon (Rosette Diamond Secure) so I can
check them out. Never been fond of the look myself but worth a shot I
think.

[sed]

Post by d***@gmail.com
How did I do?

Thanks, that made things clear.

I took a look at my guitar, and indeed, the loop
of the string over itself pushes the string a bit
high, creating a "flatter angle". It does not seem
to be a big angle and I doubt on this particular
cheap guitar that would make any difference at
all on the sound (cheap guitar, cheap strings,
cheap life). I would also tend to doubt it
dramatically changes the sound on a luthier's
guitar with good strings, but why not? We would
need some measurements with a controlled setup
to compare.

Anyway, thanks for the clarification!

[Matt Faunce]

Post by sed

Post by John
Aside from aesthetics or convenience, they are said to improve the
break angle of the string and thus offer increased volume. Anyone

Anyone would have some physical evidence of this?
That seems a bit weird to me. Sound comes from
table moving because tension of the string changes
because it vibrates. I don't see what influence
the "break angle of the string" (what is that?)
can have here.

The angle is what causes the downward pressure on the saddle. The more
acute the angle is, the more downward pressure is put in the saddle. The
assumption is that a higher pressure makes for a more efficient wave
coupling system, that is, it makes for a more efficient transfer of
vibration from the string to the saddle, as well as from the saddle to the
soundboard.

To my ear, it seems like the there is no difference, except if the pressure
is so low that the string lifts off of the saddle during its up-cycle of
its vibration.

I'm not sure about the physics. Does more pressure make the coupling more
efficient, or is the only necessary element for efficiency a constant
contact? If the former is correct, is the difference of efficiency that can
be attained by changing the angle by using the string-beads enough for the
human ear to notice?

[dsi1]

Post by sed
Anyone would have some physical evidence of this?
That seems a bit weird to me. Sound comes from
table moving because tension of the string changes
because it vibrates. I don't see what influence
the "break angle of the string" (what is that?)
can have here.

It is unclear what the influence of the break angle of the string has to do with sound. If you can tell the break angle of a string by it's sound, you deserve some kind of medal.

OTOH, I do mess with the break angle of my strings. The reason is entirely practical - a steep break angle tends to be harder on the metal windings on the bass strings so I try to reduce it if I can. This reduces (hopefully) the incidence of strings breaking at the point where it contacts the saddle.

[Richard Jernigan]

Post by sed

Post by John
Aside from aesthetics or convenience, they are said to improve the
break angle of the string and thus offer increased volume. Anyone

Anyone would have some physical evidence of this?
That seems a bit weird to me. Sound comes from
table moving because tension of the string changes
because it vibrates. I don't see what influence
the "break angle of the string" (what is that?)
can have here.

The force the string exerts on the saddle may be resolved into components. One component is the string tension you mention. But there are other forces at work. The bridge saddle and the nut react to the transverse forces imposed by the string.

Think of a wave traveling along a rope, with one end of the rope fixed to a solid wall, the other end held in your hand. When the wave arrives at your hand, you will feel a tension force, along the length of the rope, but you will also feel a transverse force, which tries to move your hand perpendicular to the length of the rope.

Alan Carruth, a respected and experienced guitar maker, has been conducting experiments and making measurements on guitars for at least a couple of decades. In "String Theory"

http://alcarruthluthier.com/Downloads/stringTheory.pdf

he published measurements of the tension and transverse forces at the bridge saddle. The transverse forces are much stronger. The transverse forces parallel to the guitar top are faced by a much stiffer resistance than the tension forces that tend to move the top up and down. Most of the sound produced by the guitar results from transverse string forces that move the top up and down. But tension forces are not negligible. They contribute to the instrument's tone quality.

RNJ

[John]

Al Carruth is very knowledgeable and writes well. I find him a lot of fun to read.

John R.

[d***@gmail.com]

I just installed my first set of string-ties out of curiosity. Of course, I installed them on a 12-hole bridge because, in spite of having 2 other 6-hole bridges, I thought they would look best on the 12-hole bridge guitar. Unlike "some" people, I judge guitars based on looks first.

Pretty cool and clean looking. A little weird for someone accustomed to the classic string-tie method. I estimate an increase of 12%-15% in coolness factor.

Still find myself burning balls onto the ends of non-wound strings. I've been string-burned one too many times. Threw a pic up on my facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/gary.dufresne.10

[Learnwell]

Post by d***@gmail.com
Still find myself burning balls

Too obvious, so not gonna do it.

Have a nice day.

[dsi1]

Post by d***@gmail.com
I just installed my first set of string-ties out of curiosity. Of course, I installed them on a 12-hole bridge because, in spite of having 2 other 6-hole bridges, I thought they would look best on the 12-hole bridge guitar. Unlike "some" people, I judge guitars based on looks first.
Pretty cool and clean looking. A little weird for someone accustomed to the classic string-tie method. I estimate an increase of 12%-15% in coolness factor.
https://www.facebook.com/gary.dufresne.10

A dollar to coolness index approaching 1? I'd say that this is an unparalleled value available to any schmuck guitarist. I'm putting my order in today!

OTOH, you're gonna need all the cool you can get if you are still burning balls on your string ends. :)

[d***@gmail.com]

Post by dsi1
OTOH, you're gonna need all the cool you can get if you are still burning balls on your string ends. :)

Yeah, it's the price I must pay to avoid having tops like the one pictured in my facebook link, with at least 5 string burns. The ones under 2nd and 3rd strings might look like string ties but are actually string "burns", and there were many under the first string. Glenn Nichols (former Kenny Hill employee) started his own shop located only about 45 minutes from me, so I have taken 2 of my guitars (one Hill, one Hippner) to him for touch-ups and repairs (his work is fantastic).

[dsi1]

Post by d***@gmail.com
Yeah, it's the price I must pay to avoid having tops like the one pictured in my facebook link, with at least 5 string burns. The ones under 2nd and 3rd strings might look like string ties but are actually string "burns", and there were many under the first string. Glenn Nichols (former Kenny Hill employee) started his own shop located only about 45 minutes from me, so I have taken 2 of my guitars (one Hill, one Hippner) to him for touch-ups and repairs (his work is fantastic).

I have tried doing this but melting the nylon just made for brittle balls that kept breaking off. After a while, I just allowed for some slippage at the bridge and then trimmed the ends after the guitar had been tuned and the strings had stabilized. These days, I don't even do that, I know how much the string is going to slip.

I do have some nice gouges in my guitar top at the bridge. What a shock to me when that happened on the first string install. When I put on the second string, the same thing happened! After that, it never happened again - knock on wood.

[Richard Jernigan]

Post by dsi1

Post by d***@gmail.com
Yeah, it's the price I must pay to avoid having tops like the one pictured in my facebook link, with at least 5 string burns. The ones under 2nd and 3rd strings might look like string ties but are actually string "burns", and there were many under the first string. Glenn Nichols (former Kenny Hill employee) started his own shop located only about 45 minutes from me, so I have taken 2 of my guitars (one Hill, one Hippner) to him for touch-ups and repairs (his work is fantastic).

I have tried doing this but melting the nylon just made for brittle balls that kept breaking off. After a while, I just allowed for some slippage at the bridge and then trimmed the ends after the guitar had been tuned and the strings had stabilized. These days, I don't even do that, I know how much the string is going to slip.
I do have some nice gouges in my guitar top at the bridge. What a shock to me when that happened on the first string install. When I put on the second string, the same thing happened! After that, it never happened again - knock on wood.

I've been melting the ends of nylon strings for decades, with good results. I use a disposable cigarette lighter. Don't stick the string in the flame. Hold the string far enough above the flame that it doesn't melt. Gradually lower the string toward the flame until it starts to melt. Let a ball the right size develop. Let it cool. Test the result by trying to pull the ball off the end of the string. I can't remember the last time I could pull the ball off, it's been years.

Another way is to leave a long tail on the string behind the bridge. Tuck the tail of the first string between the second string and the back of the bridge, tuck the tail of the second string between the third string and the bridge, etc. The wound bass strings will hold with a short tail.

RNJ

[Ted Haskell]

Post by Richard Jernigan

Post by dsi1

Post by d***@gmail.com
Yeah, it's the price I must pay to avoid having tops like the one pictured in my facebook link, with at least 5 string burns. The ones under 2nd and 3rd strings might look like string ties but are actually string "burns", and there were many under the first string. Glenn Nichols (former Kenny Hill employee) started his own shop located only about 45 minutes from me, so I have taken 2 of my guitars (one Hill, one Hippner) to him for touch-ups and repairs (his work is fantastic).

I have tried doing this but melting the nylon just made for brittle balls that kept breaking off. After a while, I just allowed for some slippage at the bridge and then trimmed the ends after the guitar had been tuned and the strings had stabilized. These days, I don't even do that, I know how much the string is going to slip.
I do have some nice gouges in my guitar top at the bridge. What a shock to me when that happened on the first string install. When I put on the second string, the same thing happened! After that, it never happened again - knock on wood.

I've been melting the ends of nylon strings for decades, with good results. I use a disposable cigarette lighter. Don't stick the string in the flame. Hold the string far enough above the flame that it doesn't melt. Gradually lower the string toward the flame until it starts to melt. Let a ball the right size develop. Let it cool. Test the result by trying to pull the ball off the end of the string. I can't remember the last time I could pull the ball off, it's been years.
Another way is to leave a long tail on the string behind the bridge. Tuck the tail of the first string between the second string and the back of the bridge, tuck the tail of the second string between the third string and the bridge, etc. The wound bass strings will hold with a short tail.
RNJ

I've never had a nylon string pull through the bridge on my classical guitars since I started to fun the end under the tensioned part of the string twice at the bridge. The first time the loose end lies under what will be the tensioned part of the string on top of the bridge, the second time it's tucked under at the back of the bridge. I've been doing it this way for over 20 years. All you have to do is pull it snug then you can attach the string at the roller (using both hands as needed) without the end moving during the process.

Ted

[Matt Faunce]

Post by Ted Haskell

Post by Richard Jernigan

Post by dsi1

Post by d***@gmail.com
Yeah, it's the price I must pay to avoid having tops like the one
pictured in my facebook link, with at least 5 string burns. The ones
under 2nd and 3rd strings might look like string ties but are actually
string "burns", and there were many under the first string. Glenn
Nichols (former Kenny Hill employee) started his own shop located only
about 45 minutes from me, so I have taken 2 of my guitars (one Hill,
one Hippner) to him for touch-ups and repairs (his work is fantastic).

I have tried doing this but melting the nylon just made for brittle
balls that kept breaking off. After a while, I just allowed for some
slippage at the bridge and then trimmed the ends after the guitar had
been tuned and the strings had stabilized. These days, I don't even do
that, I know how much the string is going to slip.
I do have some nice gouges in my guitar top at the bridge. What a shock
to me when that happened on the first string install. When I put on the
second string, the same thing happened! After that, it never happened
again - knock on wood.

I've been melting the ends of nylon strings for decades, with good
results. I use a disposable cigarette lighter. Don't stick the string in
the flame. Hold the string far enough above the flame that it doesn't
melt. Gradually lower the string toward the flame until it starts to
melt. Let a ball the right size develop. Let it cool. Test the result by
trying to pull the ball off the end of the string. I can't remember the
last time I could pull the ball off, it's been years.
Another way is to leave a long tail on the string behind the bridge.
Tuck the tail of the first string between the second string and the back
of the bridge, tuck the tail of the second string between the third
string and the bridge, etc. The wound bass strings will hold with a short tail.
RNJ

I've never had a nylon string pull through the bridge on my classical
guitars since I started to fun the end under the tensioned part of the
string twice at the bridge. The first time the loose end lies under what
will be the tensioned part of the string on top of the bridge, the second
time it's tucked under at the back of the bridge. I've been doing it this
way for over 20 years. All you have to do is pull it snug then you can
attach the string at the roller (using both hands as needed) without the
end moving during the process.
Ted

If I understood your description correctly that's how most people do it. I
don't think the tension on the top helps very much. Still, I used to put
one or two loops on top, and, instead of only one loop in the back I'd put
two there.

Here's a pic of the double loop in the back:

https://flic.kr/p/9Cpk5w

You certainly need at least one loop pressed to the back of the bridge, but
I think two make your knot more secure.

Here's a photo album of my guitar. You can see the beads I use in some of
the pics.

https://flickr.com/photos/***@N08/sets/72157696814604971

[dsi1]

Post by Matt Faunce

Post by Ted Haskell

Post by Richard Jernigan

Post by dsi1

Post by d***@gmail.com
Yeah, it's the price I must pay to avoid having tops like the one
pictured in my facebook link, with at least 5 string burns. The ones
under 2nd and 3rd strings might look like string ties but are actually
string "burns", and there were many under the first string. Glenn
Nichols (former Kenny Hill employee) started his own shop located only
about 45 minutes from me, so I have taken 2 of my guitars (one Hill,
one Hippner) to him for touch-ups and repairs (his work is fantastic).

I have tried doing this but melting the nylon just made for brittle
balls that kept breaking off. After a while, I just allowed for some
slippage at the bridge and then trimmed the ends after the guitar had
been tuned and the strings had stabilized. These days, I don't even do
that, I know how much the string is going to slip.
I do have some nice gouges in my guitar top at the bridge. What a shock
to me when that happened on the first string install. When I put on the
second string, the same thing happened! After that, it never happened
again - knock on wood.

I've been melting the ends of nylon strings for decades, with good
results. I use a disposable cigarette lighter. Don't stick the string in
the flame. Hold the string far enough above the flame that it doesn't
melt. Gradually lower the string toward the flame until it starts to
melt. Let a ball the right size develop. Let it cool. Test the result by
trying to pull the ball off the end of the string. I can't remember the
last time I could pull the ball off, it's been years.
Another way is to leave a long tail on the string behind the bridge.
Tuck the tail of the first string between the second string and the back
of the bridge, tuck the tail of the second string between the third
string and the bridge, etc. The wound bass strings will hold with a short tail.
RNJ

I've never had a nylon string pull through the bridge on my classical
guitars since I started to fun the end under the tensioned part of the
string twice at the bridge. The first time the loose end lies under what
will be the tensioned part of the string on top of the bridge, the second
time it's tucked under at the back of the bridge. I've been doing it this
way for over 20 years. All you have to do is pull it snug then you can
attach the string at the roller (using both hands as needed) without the
end moving during the process.
Ted

If I understood your description correctly that's how most people do it. I
don't think the tension on the top helps very much. Still, I used to put
one or two loops on top, and, instead of only one loop in the back I'd put
two there.
https://flic.kr/p/9Cpk5w
You certainly need at least one loop pressed to the back of the bridge, but
I think two make your knot more secure.
Here's a photo album of my guitar. You can see the beads I use in some of
the pics.
--
Matt

Looks like you need all the break angle you can muster up. The beads are quite nice and is aesthetically a good match.

[Matt Faunce]

Post by dsi1

Post by Matt Faunce

Post by Ted Haskell

Post by Richard Jernigan

Post by dsi1

Post by d***@gmail.com
Yeah, it's the price I must pay to avoid having tops like the one
pictured in my facebook link, with at least 5 string burns. The ones
under 2nd and 3rd strings might look like string ties but are actually
string "burns", and there were many under the first string. Glenn
Nichols (former Kenny Hill employee) started his own shop located only
about 45 minutes from me, so I have taken 2 of my guitars (one Hill,
one Hippner) to him for touch-ups and repairs (his work is fantastic).

I have tried doing this but melting the nylon just made for brittle
balls that kept breaking off. After a while, I just allowed for some
slippage at the bridge and then trimmed the ends after the guitar had
been tuned and the strings had stabilized. These days, I don't even do
that, I know how much the string is going to slip.
I do have some nice gouges in my guitar top at the bridge. What a shock
to me when that happened on the first string install. When I put on the
second string, the same thing happened! After that, it never happened
again - knock on wood.

I've been melting the ends of nylon strings for decades, with good
results. I use a disposable cigarette lighter. Don't stick the string in
the flame. Hold the string far enough above the flame that it doesn't
melt. Gradually lower the string toward the flame until it starts to
melt. Let a ball the right size develop. Let it cool. Test the result by
trying to pull the ball off the end of the string. I can't remember the
last time I could pull the ball off, it's been years.
Another way is to leave a long tail on the string behind the bridge.
Tuck the tail of the first string between the second string and the back
of the bridge, tuck the tail of the second string between the third
string and the bridge, etc. The wound bass strings will hold with a short tail.
RNJ

I've never had a nylon string pull through the bridge on my classical
guitars since I started to fun the end under the tensioned part of the
string twice at the bridge. The first time the loose end lies under what
will be the tensioned part of the string on top of the bridge, the second
time it's tucked under at the back of the bridge. I've been doing it this
way for over 20 years. All you have to do is pull it snug then you can
attach the string at the roller (using both hands as needed) without the
end moving during the process.
Ted

If I understood your description correctly that's how most people do it. I
don't think the tension on the top helps very much. Still, I used to put
one or two loops on top, and, instead of only one loop in the back I'd put
two there.
https://flic.kr/p/9Cpk5w
You certainly need at least one loop pressed to the back of the bridge, but
I think two make your knot more secure.
Here's a photo album of my guitar. You can see the beads I use in some of
the pics.
--
Matt

Looks like you need all the break angle you can muster up.

Truly. Here's a pic showing the break-angle better.

https://flic.kr/p/LuRPV9

Post by dsi1
The beads are quite nice and is aesthetically a good match.

Thanks.

[Richard Jernigan]

Post by Ted Haskell

Post by Richard Jernigan

Post by dsi1

Post by d***@gmail.com
Yeah, it's the price I must pay to avoid having tops like the one pictured in my facebook link, with at least 5 string burns. The ones under 2nd and 3rd strings might look like string ties but are actually string "burns", and there were many under the first string. Glenn Nichols (former Kenny Hill employee) started his own shop located only about 45 minutes from me, so I have taken 2 of my guitars (one Hill, one Hippner) to him for touch-ups and repairs (his work is fantastic).

I have tried doing this but melting the nylon just made for brittle balls that kept breaking off. After a while, I just allowed for some slippage at the bridge and then trimmed the ends after the guitar had been tuned and the strings had stabilized. These days, I don't even do that, I know how much the string is going to slip.
I do have some nice gouges in my guitar top at the bridge. What a shock to me when that happened on the first string install. When I put on the second string, the same thing happened! After that, it never happened again - knock on wood.

I've been melting the ends of nylon strings for decades, with good results. I use a disposable cigarette lighter. Don't stick the string in the flame. Hold the string far enough above the flame that it doesn't melt. Gradually lower the string toward the flame until it starts to melt. Let a ball the right size develop. Let it cool. Test the result by trying to pull the ball off the end of the string. I can't remember the last time I could pull the ball off, it's been years.
Another way is to leave a long tail on the string behind the bridge. Tuck the tail of the first string between the second string and the back of the bridge, tuck the tail of the second string between the third string and the bridge, etc. The wound bass strings will hold with a short tail.
RNJ

I've never had a nylon string pull through the bridge on my classical guitars since I started to fun the end under the tensioned part of the string twice at the bridge. The first time the loose end lies under what will be the tensioned part of the string on top of the bridge, the second time it's tucked under at the back of the bridge. I've been doing it this way for over 20 years. All you have to do is pull it snug then you can attach the string at the roller (using both hands as needed) without the end moving during the process.
Ted

Yes, I did the same thing for about 30 years, had a little more slippage than I liked a time or two, and started melting the ends. Still tied the string at the bridge the way you describe. Then one day I forgot to melt the first string end, and ended up with a ding behind the bridge on an otherwise absolutely pristine 20-year old guitar.

RNJ

[dsi1]

Post by Richard Jernigan
I've been melting the ends of nylon strings for decades, with good results. I use a disposable cigarette lighter. Don't stick the string in the flame. Hold the string far enough above the flame that it doesn't melt. Gradually lower the string toward the flame until it starts to melt. Let a ball the right size develop. Let it cool. Test the result by trying to pull the ball off the end of the string. I can't remember the last time I could pull the ball off, it's been years.
Another way is to leave a long tail on the string behind the bridge. Tuck the tail of the first string between the second string and the back of the bridge, tuck the tail of the second string between the third string and the bridge, etc. The wound bass strings will hold with a short tail.
RNJ

I should have refined my technique a little more. Guilty as charged. :)

[Matt Faunce]

Post by Richard Jernigan

Post by dsi1
I have tried doing this but melting the nylon just made for brittle
balls that kept breaking off. […]
I do have some nice gouges in my guitar top at the bridge. […]

I've been melting the ends of nylon strings for decades, with good
results. I use a disposable cigarette lighter. Don't stick the string in the [...]

Yead dsi1, you're not supposed to stick the damn string ends into the
Kilauea lava flows! Ding dong!

[John]

I finally got around to trying these (Rosette Diamond Guitar Bridge Beads, from Strings by Mail. I'm not affiliated).

They're nice. I'm happy.

John R.