Enjoy your last rum and coke

[the felonious kidd]

First they came for my ma huong and I said nothing...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/16/four-loko-ban_n_784
236.html

http://tinyurl.com/29gt2q9

WASHINGTON — A New York senator says federal regulators are expected
to move to ban caffeinated alcoholic drinks as soon as this week.

Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer, who has pushed the Obama
administration to ban the beverages, said Tuesday that the Food and
Drug Administration is expected to find that caffeine is an unsafe
food additive to alcoholic drinks, essentially banning them.

The Federal Trade Commission will then issue letters to caffeinated
alcoholic beverage manufacturers warning that marketing them could be
illegal.

College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

[frndthdevl]

Post by the felonious kidd
Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer, who has pushed the Obama
administration to ban the beverages, said Tuesday that the Food and
Drug Administration is expected to find that caffeine is an unsafe
food additive to alcoholic drinks, essentially banning them.

another democratic nanny

[Neil X]

Post by frndthdevl

Post by the felonious kidd
Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer, who has pushed the Obama
administration to ban the beverages, said Tuesday that the Food and
Drug Administration is expected to find that caffeine is an unsafe
food additive to alcoholic drinks, essentially banning them.

another democratic nanny

Yeah, this is pretty poor. They aren't acgtually banning rum and
cokes, but still, it's really fucking lame.

Peace,
Neil X.

[Rogues Island's finest]

Post by frndthdevl

Post by the felonious kidd
Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer, who has pushed the Obama
administration to ban the beverages, said Tuesday that the Food and
Drug Administration is expected to find that caffeine is an unsafe
food additive to alcoholic drinks, essentially banning them.

another democratic nanny

Yeah, this is pretty poor.  They aren't acgtually banning rum and
cokes, but still, it's really fucking lame.

Thank god us RWNWDH's only drink champagne out of the broken dreams of
poor people!

Mark

[the felonious kidd]

Post by frndthdevl

Post by the felonious kidd
Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer, who has pushed the Obama
administration to ban the beverages, said Tuesday that the Food and
Drug Administration is expected to find that caffeine is an unsafe
food additive to alcoholic drinks, essentially banning them.

another democratic nanny

Yeah, this is pretty poor.  They aren't acgtually banning rum and
cokes, but still, it's really fucking lame.
Peace,
Neil X.

It might be the way the article was written, writers do take short
cuts. But the whole gist of the article was alcohol and caffeine.
Seems to me that this alcohol and caffeine thing has been going on for
quite awhile and they just decide to ban it when someone puts it in a
can with a cool label!?! Did it have anything to do with the other
stuff in the drinks? Will the ban be specific or will it be general
enough to expose me to some liability if I serve Irish coffee to a
guest and that dude drops dead of a heart attack later that night?

They banned ma huong/ephedra after a small number of deaths out of
MILLIONS of doses/uses. The deaths to doses percentage was in
thousandths of a percent. They ban this stuff after some unknown
number of college students get hospitalized. Yet every night on TV you
hear "rare but sometimes fatal side effects" and "increased risk of
heart attack or stroke" in some advertisement for AstraGlaxoLilly
Labs.

Fucking lame is right.

[Neil X]

Post by the felonious kidd

Post by frndthdevl

Post by the felonious kidd
Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer, who has pushed the Obama
administration to ban the beverages, said Tuesday that the Food and
Drug Administration is expected to find that caffeine is an unsafe
food additive to alcoholic drinks, essentially banning them.

another democratic nanny

Yeah, this is pretty poor.  They aren't acgtually banning rum and
cokes, but still, it's really fucking lame.
Peace,
Neil X.

It might be the way the article was written, writers do take short
cuts. But the whole gist of the article was alcohol and caffeine.
Seems to me that this alcohol and caffeine thing has been going on for
quite awhile and they just decide to ban it when someone puts it in a
can with a cool label!?! Did it have anything to do with the other
stuff in the drinks? Will the ban be specific or will it be general
enough to expose me to some liability if I serve Irish coffee to a
guest and that dude drops dead of a heart attack later that night?
They banned ma huong/ephedra after a small number of deaths out of
MILLIONS of doses/uses. The deaths to doses percentage was in
thousandths of a percent. They ban this stuff after some unknown
number of college students get hospitalized. Yet every night on TV you
hear "rare but sometimes fatal side effects" and "increased risk of
heart attack or stroke" in some advertisement for AstraGlaxoLilly
Labs.
Fucking lame is right.

You're preaching to the choir.

Peace,
Neil X.

[Garry the Island Boy]

Post by the felonious kidd
First they came for my ma huong and I said nothing...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/16/four-loko-ban_n_784
236.html
http://tinyurl.com/29gt2q9
WASHINGTON — A New York senator says federal regulators are expected
to move to ban caffeinated alcoholic drinks as soon as this week.
Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer, who has pushed the Obama
administration to ban the beverages, said Tuesday that the Food and
Drug Administration is expected to find that caffeine is an unsafe
food additive to alcoholic drinks, essentially banning them.
The Federal Trade Commission will then issue letters to caffeinated
alcoholic beverage manufacturers warning that marketing them could be
illegal.
College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

First cigarettes, now caffeine? Soon we will all be doing illegal
drugs, unless you are medical marijuana certified. The irony is
rich. . .

G.

[Neil X]

Post by Garry the Island Boy
First cigarettes, now caffeine? Soon we will all be doing illegal
drugs, unless you are medical marijuana certified. The irony is
rich. . .
G.

I'll drink to that.

My favorite libation in college was Rum and Jolt. Does Jolt still
exist? It's ad campaign used to be "All the Sugar, and Twice the
Caffeine." And it used real cane sugar. Great stuff, especially with
Myers Dark.

Peace,
Neil X.

[marcman]

Post by Neil X

Post by Garry the Island Boy
First cigarettes, now caffeine? Soon we will all be doing illegal
drugs, unless you are medical marijuana certified. The irony is
rich. . .
G.

I'll drink to that.
My favorite libation in college was Rum and Jolt.  Does Jolt still
exist?  It's ad campaign used to be "All the Sugar, and Twice the
Caffeine."  And it used real cane sugar.  Great stuff, especially with
Myers Dark.
Peace,
Neil X.

I rarely drink, but when I do I prefer Dos Equis . . . I mean vodka
and red bull . . .

[RandyStoner]

Post by marcman

Post by Neil X

Post by Garry the Island Boy
First cigarettes, now caffeine? Soon we will all be doing illegal
drugs, unless you are medical marijuana certified. The irony is
rich. . .
G.

I'll drink to that.
My favorite libation in college was Rum and Jolt.  Does Jolt still
exist?  It's ad campaign used to be "All the Sugar, and Twice the
Caffeine."  And it used real cane sugar.  Great stuff, especially with
Myers Dark.
Peace,
Neil X.

I rarely drink, but when I do I prefer Dos Equis . . . I mean vodka
and red bull . . .- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

While I hate to stir up a good argument,

Here is the FDA's reasoning:

FDA is concerned about the safety of alcoholic beverages with added
caffeine because published peer-reviewed studies suggest that the
consumption of beverages containing added caffeine and alcohol is
associated with risky behaviors that may lead to hazardous and life-
threatening situations. Caffeine appears to mask some of the sensory
cues an individual might normally rely on to determine his/her level
of intoxication. The scientific literature suggests that individuals
drinking such beverages may consume more alcohol per drinking
occasion, a situation that is particularly dangerous for naïve
drinkers.


Here's the part of the FDA's FAQ discussing the scope of their
decision.

7. Does this action apply to coffee-based liqueurs?
No. These Warning Letters are not directed at alcoholic beverages
that only contain caffeine as a natural constituent of one or more of
their ingredients, such as a coffee flavoring. The alcoholic beverages
that are the subject of FDA's Warning Letters are malt beverages to
which the manufacturer has directly added caffeine as a separate
ingredient.

It seems that their line in the sand is caffeine that is part of a
natural source, such as coffee or tea, is ok, but when caffeine is
separately added as an ingredient is not generally accepted as safe.
As for adding alcohol to Red Bull, I'll just note that when they added
gasoline to Red Bull, they go a Formula One constructor's championship
for their team and a Driver's Championship for Seb Vettel. Red Bull
gives you wings.

[marcman]

Post by RandyStoner
The scientific literature suggests that individuals
drinking such beverages may consume more alcohol per drinking
occasion, a situation that is particularly dangerous for naïve
drinkers.

I'll tell you what, as a person that hardly ever consumes alcoholic
beverages, which would make me a naive drinker, I can tell you that
the last time I really tied one on through alcohol, I was pounding
down vodkas and red bulls and looking back I definitely drank more
that night than I would ever normally drink even if the sole purpose
of the drinking was to get shit faced drunk.

Twas the night before the first of the three Phish reunion shows in
Hampton, VA, March '09. I walked up the street two blocks from the
hotel I was staying at and caught the Disco Biscuits at the Norva
Theater. I don't know how many drinks I had, but the next morning I
was down about 200 bucks and did not remember how I got back to the
hotel.

My oh so very un-scientific brain has no problem wrapping itself
around the premise of the scientific literature you refer to above!

[the felonious kidd]

Post by RandyStoner
It seems that their line in the sand is caffeine that is part of a
natural source, such as coffee or tea, is ok, but when caffeine is
separately added as an ingredient is not generally accepted as safe.

Okay, so that answers one of my questions. Not many party hosts or
bars keep pure caffeine around as a mixer. But, I'm still concerned
about how lawyers may make use of the findings by the scientists and
the FDA. I really think that labeling the product, just like alcohol,
cigarettes, etc., is sufficient and banning is unnecessary. When I buy
herbs some are labeled with an FDA warning, but I can still buy them
and use them as I see fit.

Now I can go and take my Zoloft with a cup my vodka and Morning
Thunder, watch violent sports on TV and relax in the knowledge that
the government is keeping me safe.

[Edwin Hurwitz]

In article

Post by the felonious kidd

Post by RandyStoner
It seems that their line in the sand is caffeine that is part of a
natural source, such as coffee or tea, is ok, but when caffeine is
separately added as an ingredient is not generally accepted as safe.

Okay, so that answers one of my questions. Not many party hosts or
bars keep pure caffeine around as a mixer. But, I'm still concerned
about how lawyers may make use of the findings by the scientists and
the FDA. I really think that labeling the product, just like alcohol,
cigarettes, etc., is sufficient and banning is unnecessary. When I buy
herbs some are labeled with an FDA warning, but I can still buy them
and use them as I see fit.

For now. Every now and then some bill comes up to regulate herbs with
prescriptions. Somewhere in the legislative process is also a bill that
will outlaw a lot of the ingredients in natural body care and cosmetics
that has the potential to put my wife out of business because of the
toxicity of such amazingly harmful products like pure organic rose oil
or lavendar.

Here's a good description of it:
http://roberttisserand.com/2010/08/the-safe-cosmetics-act-2010/

It would really suck if this became law.

Edwin

[DGDevin]

Post by Neil X
My favorite libation in college was Rum and Jolt. Does Jolt still
exist? It's ad campaign used to be "All the Sugar, and Twice the
Caffeine." And it used real cane sugar. Great stuff, especially with
Myers Dark.

http://www.joltenergy.com/

Back then I briefly drank what I called Scudders, named after the character
in the Lawrence Block novels. It consisted of very strong coffee with a
couple of shots of bourbon. However wide-awake and weaving pales after a
time, especially when you read to the point in the novels where the Scudder
character realizes his "maintenance drinking" has made him an alcoholic, so
I gave them up. Geez, these days I can't even drink coffee much past
lunchtime without it keeping me awake nights.

[DG]

Post by Neil X

Post by Garry the Island Boy
First cigarettes, now caffeine? Soon we will all be doing illegal
drugs, unless you are medical marijuana certified. The irony is
rich. . .
G.

I'll drink to that.
My favorite libation in college was Rum and Jolt. Does Jolt still
exist? It's ad campaign used to be "All the Sugar, and Twice the
Caffeine." And it used real cane sugar. Great stuff, especially with
Myers Dark.

Greatest bar bet ever is "how many s's does Myers rum have?"
The correct answer is two... It's Myers's...

We are coming upon a holiday where yellow capped coke 2 litre bottles
are cane sugar fortified.








--

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rosepetal236/

[LP]

Post by Neil X
My favorite libation in college was Rum and Jolt.  Does Jolt still
exist?  It's ad campaign used to be "All the Sugar, and Twice the
Caffeine."  And it used real cane sugar.  Great stuff, especially with
Myers Dark.

A place near here had a drink on the menu back in the '80s called the
Jumper Cable: Jolt cola & Bacardi 151.

LP

[James Pablos]

Post by the felonious kidd
College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

1. Go out to your car and start it up. Put it in gear.

2. Jam your foot on the brake as hard as you can.

3. With your foot still on the brake, now jam your foot on the gas, as
hard as you can.

The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

[Andrew]

Post by James Pablos

Post by the felonious kidd
College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

1. Go out to your car and start it up. Put it in gear.
2. Jam your foot on the brake as hard as you can.
3. With your foot still on the brake, now jam your foot on the gas, as
hard as you can.
The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

Or its a really bad analogy.

Either way, it's certainly an analogy.

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by Andrew

Post by James Pablos

Post by the felonious kidd
College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

1. Go out to your car and start it up. Put it in gear.
2. Jam your foot on the brake as hard as you can.
3. With your foot still on the brake, now jam your foot on the gas, as
hard as you can.
The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

Or its a really bad analogy.
Either way, it's certainly an analogy.

And it involves a car. All good analogies use a car.

[James Pablos]

And it involves a car.  All good analogies use a car.

Thank you, thank you...

[Andrew]

Post by Andrew

Post by James Pablos

Post by the felonious kidd
College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

1. Go out to your car and start it up. Put it in gear.
2. Jam your foot on the brake as hard as you can.
3. With your foot still on the brake, now jam your foot on the gas, as
hard as you can.
The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

Or its a really bad analogy.
Either way, it's certainly an analogy.

And it involves a car.  All good analogies use a car.

Yes, but most bad ones do as well... And very few of those analogies
account for the windshield wipers.

[James Pablos]

Post by Andrew
Yes, but most bad ones do as well... And very few of those analogies
account for the windshield wipers.

I still maintain it was a good analogy.

Mixing a depressant and a stimulant is indeed like stomping on the
brakes and gas at the same time.

[Joker]

Post by James Pablos

Post by Andrew
Yes, but most bad ones do as well... And very few of those analogies
account for the windshield wipers.

I still maintain it was a good analogy.
Mixing a depressant and a stimulant is indeed like stomping on the
brakes and gas at the same time.

No, not at all. It could be. But it could also be like tapping the
brakes while mildly depressing the gas pedal. Or anywhere in between.
But, maybe you wear out a lot of cars and spend a lot on brake
repairs...

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by Andrew

Post by Andrew

Post by James Pablos

Post by the felonious kidd
College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

1. Go out to your car and start it up. Put it in gear.
2. Jam your foot on the brake as hard as you can.
3. With your foot still on the brake, now jam your foot on the gas, as
hard as you can.
The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

Or its a really bad analogy.
Either way, it's certainly an analogy.

And it involves a car.  All good analogies use a car.

Yes, but most bad ones do as well... And very few of those analogies
account for the windshield wipers.

I know, it's a /. joke.

[Andrew]

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by Andrew

Post by Andrew

Post by James Pablos

Post by the felonious kidd
College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

1. Go out to your car and start it up. Put it in gear.
2. Jam your foot on the brake as hard as you can.
3. With your foot still on the brake, now jam your foot on the gas, as
hard as you can.
The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

Or its a really bad analogy.
Either way, it's certainly an analogy.

And it involves a car.  All good analogies use a car.

Yes, but most bad ones do as well... And very few of those analogies
account for the windshield wipers.

I know, it's a /. joke.

Everything's a joke until somebody gets hurt... Or their windshield
wipers wear out...

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by Andrew

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by Andrew

Post by Andrew

Post by James Pablos

Post by the felonious kidd
College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

1. Go out to your car and start it up. Put it in gear.
2. Jam your foot on the brake as hard as you can.
3. With your foot still on the brake, now jam your foot on the gas, as
hard as you can.
The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

Or its a really bad analogy.
Either way, it's certainly an analogy.

And it involves a car.  All good analogies use a car.

Yes, but most bad ones do as well... And very few of those analogies
account for the windshield wipers.

I know, it's a /. joke.

Everything's a joke until somebody gets hurt... Or their windshield
wipers wear out...

On that we can agree - there's *nothing* funny about a smeared
windshield.

[Neil X]

Post by Andrew

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by Andrew

Post by Andrew

Post by James Pablos

Post by the felonious kidd
College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

1. Go out to your car and start it up. Put it in gear.
2. Jam your foot on the brake as hard as you can.
3. With your foot still on the brake, now jam your foot on the gas, as
hard as you can.
The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

Or its a really bad analogy.
Either way, it's certainly an analogy.

And it involves a car.  All good analogies use a car.

Yes, but most bad ones do as well... And very few of those analogies
account for the windshield wipers.

I know, it's a /. joke.

Everything's a joke until somebody gets hurt... Or their windshield
wipers wear out...

I wish we could meet again in Escondido for a Saison or two. I need
to talk to people like you more often.

Peace,
Neil X.

[3jane.]

Post by Andrew

Post by Andrew
Or its a really bad analogy.
Either way, it's certainly an analogy.

And it involves a car.  All good analogies use a car.

Yes, but most bad ones do as well... And very few of those analogies
account for the windshield wipers.

I know, it's a /. joke.-

More like a \----/ joke, I'd say.

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by 3jane.

Post by Andrew

Post by Andrew
Or its a really bad analogy.
Either way, it's certainly an analogy.

And it involves a car.  All good analogies use a car.

Yes, but most bad ones do as well... And very few of those analogies
account for the windshield wipers.

I know, it's a /. joke.-

More like a \----/ joke, I'd say.

Ha. I just got it. At first, I though it was a bed and I was trying
to figure out how to politely decline.

[3jane.]

Post by 3jane.

Post by Andrew
Yes, but most bad ones do as well... And very few of those analogies
account for the windshield wipers.

I know, it's a /. joke.-

More like a \----/ joke, I'd say.

Ha.  I just got it.  At first, I though it was a bed and I was trying
to figure out how to politely decline.

In your dreams, cheeky lad. But I suppose you'd need a bed for that.

[Randy G]

Post by James Pablos
The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

It also causes you to make horrid rap videos:

[Joker]

Post by James Pablos

Post by the felonious kidd
College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

1. Go out to your car and start it up. Put it in gear.
2. Jam your foot on the brake as hard as you can.
3. With your foot still on the brake, now jam your foot on the gas, as
hard as you can.
The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

I think you vastly over-rate the "gas pedal" effect of caffeine. It's
not really a very good analogy in any case. When you have just a
drink--no caffeine added--do you feel like you've jammed "our foot on
the brake as hard as you can"? I don't.
I drink a pot of coffee in the early morning before work. I'm not
running out the door, and I think there is much more caffeine in my
pot of coffee than in a couple of Four Lokos. Caffeine use can be
overdone, yes, but so can easy analogies.

[James Pablos]

Post by Joker
I think you vastly over-rate the "gas pedal" effect of caffeine. It's
not really a very good analogy in any case. When you have just a
drink--no caffeine added--do you feel like you've jammed "our foot on
the brake as hard as you can"?  I don't.

Each can has 260mg. of caffeine. Drink four (hence the name, "four
loko") and you're looking at 1,040mg of caffeine. That's a shitload
for the average person.

Post by Joker
I drink a pot of coffee in the early morning before work.

That isn't typical.

[Joker]

Post by James Pablos

Post by Joker
I think you vastly over-rate the "gas pedal" effect of caffeine. It's
not really a very good analogy in any case. When you have just a
drink--no caffeine added--do you feel like you've jammed "our foot on
the brake as hard as you can"?  I don't.

Each can has 260mg. of caffeine. Drink four (hence the name, "four
loko") and you're looking at 1,040mg of caffeine. That's a shitload
for the average person.

Oh, now you want to add "drink four" to the analogy? Presumably drunk
in rapid succession? Anything else you want to add?
Well, coffee has around 150-200mg.s per 8oz. cup, depending. I brew
mine strong and the pot is about three cups. It's an eye opener, but
I'm not sweating or exhibiting rapid heartbeat or talking non-stop.
I'm nowhere near jamming the pedal to the floor, to use your analogy.

Post by James Pablos

Post by Joker
I drink a pot of coffee in the early morning before work.

That isn't typical.

I drink it every morning, so I'd say it was pretty typical.

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by Joker
Oh, now you want to add "drink four" to the analogy? Presumably drunk
in rapid succession? Anything else you want to add?
Well, coffee has around 150-200mg.s per 8oz. cup, depending. I brew
mine strong and the pot is about three cups. It's an eye opener, but
I'm not sweating or exhibiting rapid heartbeat or talking non-stop.
I'm nowhere near jamming the pedal to the floor, to use your analogy.

You ever have the dream where your car is going down the highway,
you're the only one in it, but you're in the back seat and can't quite
manage to crawl into the front or even just reach the steering wheel?
And it's going fast, mostly doing ok on its own, and even though
you're at what's best characterized as an elevated stage of concern,
it's not close, at all, to fear, and you know everything's going to be
ok in the end? I was having that dream with some regularity, there,
for a while.

Anyway, that's neither here, nor there - so, if you're nowhere near to
jamming the pedal to the floor, would you say you're coasting down a
steep hill like a bat out of hell?

[Joker]

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by Joker
Oh, now you want to add "drink four" to the analogy? Presumably drunk
in rapid succession? Anything else you want to add?
Well, coffee has around 150-200mg.s per 8oz. cup, depending. I brew
mine strong and the pot is about three cups. It's an eye opener, but
I'm not sweating or exhibiting rapid heartbeat or talking non-stop.
I'm nowhere near jamming the pedal to the floor, to use your analogy.

You ever have the dream where your car is going down the highway,
you're the only one in it, but you're in the back seat and can't quite
manage to crawl into the front or even just reach the steering wheel?
And it's going fast, mostly doing ok on its own, and even though
you're at what's best characterized as an elevated stage of concern,
it's not close, at all, to fear, and you know everything's going to be
ok in the end?  I was having that dream with some regularity, there,
for a while.
Anyway, that's neither here, nor there - so, if you're nowhere near to
jamming the pedal to the floor, would you say you're coasting down a
steep hill like a bat out of hell?

More like a gentle, sloping descent in a VW Beetle. Okay, it takes a
lot to get me going in the morning...

[volkfolk]

Post by Joker

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by Joker
Oh, now you want to add "drink four" to the analogy? Presumably drunk
in rapid succession? Anything else you want to add?
Well, coffee has around 150-200mg.s per 8oz. cup, depending. I brew
mine strong and the pot is about three cups. It's an eye opener, but
I'm not sweating or exhibiting rapid heartbeat or talking non-stop.
I'm nowhere near jamming the pedal to the floor, to use your analogy.

You ever have the dream where your car is going down the highway,
you're the only one in it, but you're in the back seat and can't quite
manage to crawl into the front or even just reach the steering wheel?
And it's going fast, mostly doing ok on its own, and even though
you're at what's best characterized as an elevated stage of concern,
it's not close, at all, to fear, and you know everything's going to be
ok in the end?  I was having that dream with some regularity, there,
for a while.
Anyway, that's neither here, nor there - so, if you're nowhere near to
jamming the pedal to the floor, would you say you're coasting down a
steep hill like a bat out of hell?

More like a gentle, sloping descent in a VW Beetle. Okay, it takes a
lot to get me going in the morning...

Do you have a tail wind? Or a head wind?

Scot

[Garry the Island Boy]

Post by volkfolk

Post by Joker

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by Joker
Oh, now you want to add "drink four" to the analogy? Presumably drunk
in rapid succession? Anything else you want to add?
Well, coffee has around 150-200mg.s per 8oz. cup, depending. I brew
mine strong and the pot is about three cups. It's an eye opener, but
I'm not sweating or exhibiting rapid heartbeat or talking non-stop.
I'm nowhere near jamming the pedal to the floor, to use your analogy.

You ever have the dream where your car is going down the highway,
you're the only one in it, but you're in the back seat and can't quite
manage to crawl into the front or even just reach the steering wheel?
And it's going fast, mostly doing ok on its own, and even though
you're at what's best characterized as an elevated stage of concern,
it's not close, at all, to fear, and you know everything's going to be
ok in the end?  I was having that dream with some regularity, there,
for a while.
Anyway, that's neither here, nor there - so, if you're nowhere near to
jamming the pedal to the floor, would you say you're coasting down a
steep hill like a bat out of hell?

More like a gentle, sloping descent in a VW Beetle. Okay, it takes a
lot to get me going in the morning...

Do you have a tail wind? Or a head wind?
Scot

Laden or unladen?

G.

[frndthdevl]

Post by dr.narcolepsy
You ever have the dream where your car is going down the highway,
you're the only one in it, but you're in the back seat and can't quite
manage to crawl into the front or even just reach the steering wheel?
And it's going fast, mostly doing ok on its own, and even though
you're at what's best characterized as an elevated stage of concern,
it's not close, at all, to fear, and you know everything's going to be
ok in the end?  I was having that dream with some regularity, there,
for a while.

were you texting?

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by frndthdevl

Post by dr.narcolepsy
You ever have the dream where your car is going down the highway,
you're the only one in it, but you're in the back seat and can't quite
manage to crawl into the front or even just reach the steering wheel?
And it's going fast, mostly doing ok on its own, and even though
you're at what's best characterized as an elevated stage of concern,
it's not close, at all, to fear, and you know everything's going to be
ok in the end?  I was having that dream with some regularity, there,
for a while.

were you texting?

I never dream about my iPhone.

[Tarp Skidoo]

In article

(hence the name, "four loko")

"The name "Four" is derived from its four main ingredients: alcohol,
caffeine, taurine, and guarana." - Wiki

[Tarp Skidoo]

In article

Post by Tarp Skidoo
In article

(hence the name, "four loko")

"The name "Four" is derived from its four main ingredients: alcohol,
caffeine, taurine, and guarana." - Wiki

Sorry, Joker, I meant to attribute the quote to Pablos.

[James Pablos]

Post by Tarp Skidoo
In article

(hence the name, "four loko")

"The name "Four" is derived from its four main ingredients: alcohol,
caffeine, taurine, and guarana." - Wiki

That's not how the college kids interpret it.... Just so you know.

[Tarp Skidoo]

In article

Post by James Pablos

Post by Tarp Skidoo
In article

(hence the name, "four loko")

"The name "Four" is derived from its four main ingredients: alcohol,
caffeine, taurine, and guarana." - Wiki

That's not how the college kids interpret it.... Just so you know.

If college kids were that ignorant they'd be slamming cases of 7UP.

[James Pablos]

Post by Tarp Skidoo

Post by James Pablos

Post by Tarp Skidoo
"The name "Four" is derived from its four main ingredients: alcohol,
caffeine, taurine, and guarana." - Wiki

That's not how the college kids interpret it.... Just so you know.

If college kids were that ignorant they'd be slamming cases of 7UP.

The fact that college students are chock-full of ignorance is a
surprise to you?

This is from today's Miami Student, a local college rag:
--
Sophomore attempts to escape officers

At around 1:30 a.m. Saturday, Oxford Police Department officers were
reportedly on patrol at The Wood's Bar when they observed a male
without a wristband or stamps on his hands holding a pitcher of beer.

The male, later identified as Miami University sophomore Jereme
Neujahr, 19, reportedly had X's on his hands that had been partially
washed off.

Officers reportedly asked Neujahr for identification, but he told them
he did not have it with him.

Neujahr reportedly told officers he was 21. When officers asked why he
had "X" markings on his hands, Neujahr reportedly said he could not
hear the question.

Neujahr was reportedly escorted to the back of the bar so he could
hear, and tried to pull away several times.

Once in the back of the bar, Neujahr reportedly told officers that he
was 20 years old.

Officers reportedly told Neujahr to put his hands behind his back, but
Neujahr refused and asked, "Are you serious7?"

Neujahr was reportedly taken outside where he again tried to pull away
from officers and resisted being handcuffed. Neujahr also reportedly
screamed at the officers, telling them not to touch him.

Neujahr was reportedly placed on the ground and he began rolling
around while yelling.

The life squad was reportedly called when Neujahr began to
hyperventilate. Neujahr's friends reportedly told officers he had
consumed four 4Lokos earlier in the night.

Neujahr was cited for underage intoxication and released to his
friends.

--

The penultimate line explains it all. :)

[Tarp Skidoo]

In article

Post by James Pablos

Post by Tarp Skidoo

Post by James Pablos

Post by Tarp Skidoo
"The name "Four" is derived from its four main ingredients: alcohol,
caffeine, taurine, and guarana." - Wiki

That's not how the college kids interpret it.... Just so you know.

If college kids were that ignorant they'd be slamming cases of 7UP.

The fact that college students are chock-full of ignorance is a
surprise to you?
--
Sophomore attempts to escape officers

I see that college students are smart enough to cite an object of public
hysteria in an attempt to ameliorate the consequences of fairly typical,
unruly behavior frequently resulting from ordinary alcohol intoxication.

[sparksfly]

Post by Tarp Skidoo
In article

Post by James Pablos

Post by Tarp Skidoo

Post by James Pablos

Post by Tarp Skidoo
"The name "Four" is derived from its four main ingredients: alcohol,
caffeine, taurine, and guarana." - Wiki

That's not how the college kids interpret it.... Just so you know.

If college kids were that ignorant they'd be slamming cases of 7UP.

The fact that college students are chock-full of ignorance is a
surprise to you?
 --
Sophomore attempts to escape officers

I see that college students are smart enough to cite an object of public
hysteria in an attempt to ameliorate the consequences of fairly typical,
unruly behavior frequently resulting from ordinary alcohol intoxication.

That's a good point indeed.

Also aren't many bars serving mixed drinks that use red bull as the
mixer? How can you ban one but not the other. Hypocrisy breeds
disrespect for the law. I suppose the FDA will have to start
inspecting bars and require rigorous documentation proving that
ethanol and caffeine never end up in the same glass in their
establishment.

Mike

[James Pablos]

Post by Tarp Skidoo
I see that college students are smart enough to cite an object of public
hysteria in an attempt to ameliorate the consequences of fairly typical,
unruly behavior frequently resulting from ordinary alcohol intoxication.

Or perhaps they were genuinely worried about their friend.

Take your pick.

[Xanax]

On Wed, 17 Nov 2010 15:35:12 -0800 (PST), James Pablos

Post by James Pablos
Or perhaps they were genuinely worried about their friend.

I bet that scotty poo wood love to get high w/u

[sparksfly]

Post by James Pablos

Post by Tarp Skidoo
I see that college students are smart enough to cite an object of public
hysteria in an attempt to ameliorate the consequences of fairly typical,
unruly behavior frequently resulting from ordinary alcohol intoxication.

Or perhaps they were genuinely worried about their friend.
Take your pick.

Ok so according to you today's college students are chuck full of
ignorance but rather kind and caring towards their ignorant
peers.....well I guess that ain't half bad.

Mike

[Neil X]

Post by Joker

Post by James Pablos

Post by Joker
I think you vastly over-rate the "gas pedal" effect of caffeine. It's
not really a very good analogy in any case. When you have just a
drink--no caffeine added--do you feel like you've jammed "our foot on
the brake as hard as you can"?  I don't.

Each can has 260mg. of caffeine. Drink four (hence the name, "four
loko") and you're looking at 1,040mg of caffeine. That's a shitload
for the average person.

Oh, now you want to add "drink four" to the analogy? Presumably drunk
in rapid succession? Anything else you want to add?
Well, coffee has around 150-200mg.s per 8oz. cup, depending. I brew
mine strong and the pot is about three cups. It's an eye opener, but
I'm not sweating or exhibiting rapid heartbeat or talking non-stop.
I'm nowhere near jamming the pedal to the floor, to use your analogy.

Post by James Pablos

Post by Joker
I drink a pot of coffee in the early morning before work.

That isn't typical.

I drink it every morning, so I'd say it was pretty typical.

I drink a quart or two of iced coffee every morning before wrok. this
isn't your dilutes, watery variety of iced coffee, we make it strong
enough to withstand dilution by ice.

The bottom line here is never, ever trust the opinions of self-
appointed keepers of morality who have no experience with the
materials they desperately seek to regulate. Ignorance almost always
leads to ridiculously stupid policy recommendations.

Peace,
Neil X.

[James Pablos]

Post by Neil X
The bottom line here is never, ever trust the opinions of self-
appointed keepers of morality who have no experience with the
materials they desperately seek to regulate.  Ignorance almost always
leads to ridiculously stupid policy recommendations.

That's one of your dumbest arguments evah. Have *you* experienced Four
Loko yet? If not, then by your own logic you can't speak on the matter
either.

Tell you what, Kneeeeel. Pound a couple of these things before you
head off to the Blood Depot this morning. Report back to us at about
10am.

[Neil X]

Have *you* experienced Four Loko yet?

Yes. We bought some a few weeks back when MA communities started
banning it, I drank 3 in an hour period. It is probably the most
disgusting tasting alcoholic libation I have ever encountered. But I
do understand why people would like the buzz. What I don't understand
is the media-driven hysteria. It's much ado about nothing.

If not, then by your own logic you can't speak on the matter either.

Faulty assumptions lead to faulty conclusions.

Tell you what, Kneeeeel.

Here's what I'll tell you, Pabluuuuuum: People have been mixing
caffeine with alcohol for centuries. And ignorant morons like you and
Carrie Nation have been decrying the evils of intoxication for an
equal time period. If you don't like 4Loko, then don't drink it.
What people do to their own bodies is their business, not yours.

Peace,
Neil X.

[gwatts]

...People have been mixing
caffeine with alcohol for centuries.

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/11/coffee-cocktails-with-caffeine-four-loko.html

[James Pablos]

Post by Neil X
Faulty assumptions lead to faulty conclusions.

Not really. Your objection to my argument was that I hadn't yet
experienced that swill. By such logic, unless one has been mauled by a
pitbull, it's not proper for that person to be cautious around the
breed. Or to urge that others be cautious.

You do realize how stupid that objection is, don't you?

I don't need to drink that shit to know that mixing stimulants and
depressants is a bad idea. You'd think a "scientist" such as yourself
would recognize the basic idiocy there.

Post by Neil X

Post by James Pablos
Tell you what, Kneeeeel.

Here's what I'll tell you, Pabluuuuuum:  People have been mixing
caffeine with alcohol for centuries.  And ignorant morons like you and
Carrie Nation have been decrying the evils of intoxication for an
equal time period.  If you don't like 4Loko, then don't drink it.
What people do to their own bodies is their business, not yours.

Again, you're attributing something to me that simply isn't there.
Find any instance where my objection to drugs or alcohol has been
developed on the basis of morality.

You can't, because I've never objected on that basis. My objections
arise from concerns related to physical health. And judging by your
grayish pallor and deeply-bagged eyes, you might do well to consider
those concerns. You're looking ROUGH, my friend.

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by James Pablos
I don't need to drink that shit to know that mixing stimulants and
depressants is a bad idea.

Oh, come one. It's a bad idea to overindulge in anything, it's a bad
idea to pound a substance before you've got your arms wrapped around
how your body handles it.

But to outlaw a product because some doofusses drank too much is just
silly. But I guess it gets the Mad Mothers to shut up, for a while,
before they move on to their next scourge of the nation or scourge of
young people.

Not that I'd ever want to drink any of that crap - I can mix whiskey
and coffee and/or alcohol and chew just fine on my own, thanks. I'd
hate to consider how I'd function on any industrial strength and/or
illegal stimulant . . .

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by Neil X
People have been mixing
caffeine with alcohol for centuries.

It's just amazing. Yet another token gesture to the Mad Mothers. If
we banned *everything* that *some* college students do too much of in
one sitting, there wouldn't be anything left. I guess it's back to
pouring whiskey into coffee.

[marcman]

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I guess it's back to
pouring whiskey into coffee.

What's wrong with that?

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by marcman

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I guess it's back to
pouring whiskey into coffee.

What's wrong with that?

Nothing's wrong with that - I like it - I'm trying to echo Neil's
point that this is not exactly a new mixture and that it's not exactly
anything that people are going to stop doing. I guess we just can't
put 'em both in a can and sell it with next-gen branding. I guess
that why we don't have Bug Bunny Menthols.

[frndthdevl]

2 of the incidents cited as a need to nanny up were in Floriduh, with
under age drinkers. One died mixing it with diet pills, and one
accidentally shot himself while drunk.
I guess that is a great excuse for Democratic politicans to express
their outrage.
But seriously, what is the upside for Democrats to push this issue? Is
that going to win independant voters back in 2012?

[Randy G]

Post by frndthdevl
2 of the incidents cited as a need to nanny up were in Floriduh, with
under age drinkers. One died mixing it with diet pills, and one
accidentally shot himself while drunk.
I guess that is a great excuse for Democratic politicans to express
their outrage.
But seriously, what is the upside for Democrats to push this issue? Is
that going to win independant voters back in 2012?

This better not affect me being able to drink a coffee stout.

[marcman]

Post by Randy G

Post by frndthdevl
2 of the incidents cited as a need to nanny up were in Floriduh, with
under age drinkers. One died mixing it with diet pills, and one
accidentally shot himself while drunk.
I guess that is a great excuse for Democratic politicans to express
their outrage.
But seriously, what is the upside for Democrats to push this issue? Is
that going to win independant voters back in 2012?

This better not affect me being able to drink a coffee stout.

http://www.patriotledger.com/business/x2105639321/FDA-targets-South-Shore-beer-entrepreneur-because-of-caffeine

FDA targets South Shore beer entrepreneur because of caffeine

By Jon Chesto
The Patriot Ledger
Posted Nov 18, 2010 @ 05:00 AM

COHASSET — A Cohasset entrepreneur found herself swept up in the
frenzied government backlash to the Four Loko craze when she was told
by the Food and Drug Administration that she essentially should stop
selling a caffeinated beer that she launched in 2004.

Rhonda Kallman, who sells Moonshot beer through her New Century
Brewing Co., said she was surprised to receive a warning letter on
Wednesday from the FDA. The letter was similar to one that was sent to
the creators of Four Loko, a caffeinated beverage with a much higher
alcohol content.

The warning letter informs Kallman that the FDA determined that her
product is not safe for consumption because of its caffeine. The
letter instructs her to promptly fix the violation or the FDA could
take punitive action, including the possible seizure of beer bottles.

Kallman, who runs New Century out of her house and contracts with a
brewery to make the beer, said the letter essentially represents a ban
on the sale of Moonshot.

“The FDA has come out of nowhere like cowboys riding into town,” said
Kallman, whose firm also sells Edison Light beer. “They handled this
very amateurishly. ... It’s Prohibition, in 2010. I’m a small,
independent brewer that followed all the rules. I spent seven years of
time, money and energy giving beer lovers something they want.”

Without any full-time employees, Kallman has struggled at times to get
Moonshot into stores. She said the pilsner beer is available in only
about 50 locations in the Boston, Los Angeles and Atlanta markets.

Kallman said she gave the FDA information about her product after the
agency sent requests a year ago to several companies that sold
beverages with alcohol and caffeine. But she suspects that this week’s
report was rushed by the FDA because of the increasing controversy
around Four Loko.

This week, the FDA sent warning letters to four companies that sell
malt beverages with caffeine, telling them caffeine can have a masking
effect that can cause naive drinkers to consume too much alcohol.

Chicago-based Phusion Projects, which sells Four Loko, was among the
other companies to get warning letters. On Tuesday night, Phusion
announced it would reformulate Four Loko – which has roughly three
times as much alcohol as beer – so it no longer contains caffeine and
other stimulants. Several states had already banned Four Loko, and
Massachusetts regulators are preparing to crack down on sales of the
beverage.

The FDA gave Kallman 15 days to respond to the agency’s warning
letter, but she said she’s not sure of her next step.

“This is a witch hunt,” Kallman said. “It could and should be
regulated, not banned.”

[James Pablos]

Post by dr.narcolepsy
Nothing's wrong with that - I like it - I'm trying to echo Neil's
point that this is not exactly a new mixture and that it's not exactly
anything that people are going to stop doing.  I guess we just can't
put 'em both in a can and sell it with next-gen branding.  I guess
that why we don't have Bug Bunny Menthols.

That's my objection. 4Loko starts with a bad idea, makes it "eXtreme,"
and then packages it for college kids.

There's a big difference between that and a simple rum and coke after
dinner.

[frndthdevl]

Post by James Pablos
That's my objection. 4Loko starts with a bad idea, makes it "eXtreme,"
and then packages it for college kids.

you have an objection to college kids who could choose to go to
war,making thier own stupid decisions? I would like to know when this
over protection of young adults is going to end. Let them join the
military, but don't let them drink alcohol with caffeine. Yeah,that
makes sense.

[James Pablos]

Post by frndthdevl
you have an objection to college kids who could choose to go to
war,making thier own stupid decisions? I would like to know when this
over protection of young adults is going to end. Let them join the
military, but don't let them drink alcohol with caffeine. Yeah,that
makes sense.

I'm think about marketing a line of auto-erotic asphyxiation kits at
Wal-Mart and Target. They would come with a pre-knotted rope, a porno
mag, handcuffs, and vaseline. I've been in contact with the Harry
Potter franchise about branding, and I think they're going to be
onboard.

Sound like a good idea?

All I need now is a name for the product...

[Andrew]

Post by James Pablos

Post by frndthdevl
you have an objection to college kids who could choose to go to
war,making thier own stupid decisions? I would like to know when this
over protection of young adults is going to end. Let them join the
military, but don't let them drink alcohol with caffeine. Yeah,that
makes sense.

I'm think about marketing a line of auto-erotic asphyxiation kits at
Wal-Mart and Target. They would come with a pre-knotted rope, a porno
mag, handcuffs, and vaseline. I've been in contact with the Harry
Potter franchise about branding, and I think they're going to be
onboard.

It's a great idea. Of course Target, Wal-mart and Harry Potter are
going to have nothing to do with it.

Post by James Pablos
Sound like a good idea?

Well, your marketing plan needs work.

Post by James Pablos
All I need now is a name for the product...

How about Peppermint Pablos' Saturday Night...

[Xanax]

On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 11:10:21 -0800 (PST), James Pablos

Post by James Pablos
That's my objection. 4Loko starts with a bad idea, makes it

"eXtreme,"

Post by James Pablos
and then packages it for college kids.

Think of how much "fun" u & PEDOshine could have with that

[Ken Fortenberry]

Post by dr.narcolepsy
Nothing's wrong with that - I like it - I'm trying to echo Neil's
point that this is not exactly a new mixture and that it's not exactly
anything that people are going to stop doing. I guess we just can't
put 'em both in a can and sell it with next-gen branding. I guess
that why we don't have Bug Bunny Menthols.

If somebody sprays pig shit on tons of lettuce and 17 people end
up dead folks get up in arms and demand to know, where is the damn
government. Where's the regulators, who is looking out for our
health ?

Just sayin'.

[frndthdevl]

Post by Ken Fortenberry
If somebody sprays pig shit on tons of lettuce and 17 people end
up dead folks get up in arms and demand to know, where is the damn
government. Where's the regulators, who is looking out for our
health ?
Just sayin'.
--
Ken Fortenberry

Are you really trying to link the over indulgence of alcohol by
underage idiots in Floriduh with children getting sick from lettuce in
their Happy Meals? Oh wait, another great democratic idea, ban Happy
Meals because some poor minority families might too stupid to make the
right decisions. Is your defense of all things Democratic really
leading you down the path that college students are not old enough to
know better?
Again, how is the continued nannification of the US led by Democratic
pols going to win the independant voters back over in 2012?

[Ken Fortenberry]

Post by frndthdevl

Post by Ken Fortenberry
If somebody sprays pig shit on tons of lettuce and 17 people end
up dead folks get up in arms and demand to know, where is the damn
government. Where's the regulators, who is looking out for our
health ?
Just sayin'.

Are you really trying to link the over indulgence of alcohol by
underage idiots in Floriduh with children getting sick from lettuce in
their Happy Meals?

The common denominator is product safety. We want to be able to go
to the store or restaurant and know that the products we purchase
there won't harm us. We trust the government to make this so.

Post by frndthdevl
Oh wait, another great democratic idea, ban Happy
Meals because some poor minority families might too stupid to make the
right decisions. Is your defense of all things Democratic really
leading you down the path that college students are not old enough to
know better?
Again, how is the continued nannification of the US led by Democratic
pols going to win the independant voters back over in 2012?

A ban on packaging toys with unhealthy food is not the same as a
ban on unhealthy food. And, as usual, your "minority" rant is just
more of the same not so thinly-veiled racism I've come to expect
from the aggrieved whites of the right.

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by Ken Fortenberry
The common denominator is product safety. We want to be able to go
to the store or restaurant and know that the products we purchase
there won't harm us. We trust the government to make this so.

Well, yes - we're better off with the government looking out for us
than not looking out for us, even though sometimes perfectly good and
useful and enjoyable and safe products are banned. I agree with that
big picture. The difference, I think, is that the packaging for the
lettuce doesn't inform us that pig shit is present - and, because it's
food, we need to be able to assume that no disease-friendly or
otherwise dirty ingredients are present. The packaging for 4loko
(just assuming that this is the name) tells me exactly what I want to
know (if I actually wanted it) - alcohol and caffeine! in one can!
for your convenience! This seems to me to be *safe*. I know what's
in it. I know how much of what's in it is in it. Now, if I want to
guzzle 7 cans straight and choke to death on human vomitus, that's on
me.

The branding's another subject - but this product is being banned for
being dangerous, with no regard for the branding.

[Andrew]

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by Ken Fortenberry
The common denominator is product safety. We want to be able to go
to the store or restaurant and know that the products we purchase
there won't harm us. We trust the government to make this so.

Well, yes - we're better off with the government looking out for us
than not looking out for us, even though sometimes perfectly good and
useful and enjoyable and safe products are banned.  

Wait. No. Fuck that. Jesus Christ. If we banned every product that
could potentially harm somebody somewhere we'd all have to live in a
vacuum...

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by Andrew

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by Ken Fortenberry
The common denominator is product safety. We want to be able to go
to the store or restaurant and know that the products we purchase
there won't harm us. We trust the government to make this so.

Well, yes - we're better off with the government looking out for us
than not looking out for us, even though sometimes perfectly good and
useful and enjoyable and safe products are banned.  

Wait. No. Fuck that. Jesus Christ. If we banned every product that
could potentially harm somebody somewhere we'd all have to live in a
vacuum...

No, the point is that it's worth some of this ridiculous overreacting
to the safety ninnies to have a federal entity figure out where the
bad lettuce comes from and do what's reasonable to protect consumers
and to punish the offenders. Nothing's perfect. Except that turkey
and cheese sub I had for lunch.

[Andrew]

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by Andrew

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by Ken Fortenberry
The common denominator is product safety. We want to be able to go
to the store or restaurant and know that the products we purchase
there won't harm us. We trust the government to make this so.

Well, yes - we're better off with the government looking out for us
than not looking out for us, even though sometimes perfectly good and
useful and enjoyable and safe products are banned.  

Wait. No. Fuck that. Jesus Christ. If we banned every product that
could potentially harm somebody somewhere we'd all have to live in a
vacuum...

No, the point is that it's worth some of this ridiculous overreacting
to the safety ninnies to have a federal entity figure out where the
bad lettuce comes from and do what's reasonable to protect consumers
and to punish the offenders.  Nothing's perfect.  Except that turkey
and cheese sub I had for lunch.

Right, but the bad lettuce is bad lettuce. It's not a "perfectly good
and useful and enjoyable and safe product". It's bad and useless and
unpleasant and harmful. Some shitty caffeine and alcohol concoction
marketed to morons may be harmful to people who abuse the product, but
that doesn't mean it should be banned because stupid people act people.

[marcman]

. . . but that doesn't mean it should be banned because stupid people act people.

I hate it when stupid people act all people and shit . . .

[James Pablos]

Post by marcman

. . . but that doesn't mean it should be banned because stupid people act people.

I hate it when stupid people act all people and shit . . .

seldom turns out the way it does in the song...

[DGDevin]

Post by Ken Fortenberry
The common denominator is product safety. We want to be able to go
to the store or restaurant and know that the products we purchase
there won't harm us. We trust the government to make this so.

The govt. permits the sale of a wide range of products which when used as
intended are harmful to us, cigarettes and alcoholic beverages being good
examples. Some personal responsibility is required to live to an old age,
the govt. cannot and should not try to wrap us up in cargo blankets and
escort us through life so we don't do anything foolish. So if adults (and
many college students are such) can legally buy cigarettes with warning
labels on the packages, why shouldn't they be able to buy a pre-mixed
alcohol/caffeine beverage with a warning label rather than making their own
by pouring some booze into a canned caffeine drink?

Besides, while natural selection often isn't pretty, it works. People
foolish enough to drink themselves into a coma might as well be removed from
the gene pool--particularly brilliant musicians, writers et al. excepted
(apparently for the sake of art we have to put up with self-destructive
behavior on the part of artists).

[Edwin Hurwitz]

In article

Post by Neil X

Have *you* experienced Four Loko yet?

Yes. We bought some a few weeks back when MA communities started
banning it, I drank 3 in an hour period. It is probably the most
disgusting tasting alcoholic libation I have ever encountered. But I
do understand why people would like the buzz. What I don't understand
is the media-driven hysteria. It's much ado about nothing.

I've heard it described as a paranoid parent's dream: all the hangover
with none of the fun.

Haven't tried it myself. An espresso and a shot of grappa is pretty
good. In Italy they call it a cafe corretto and it's quite popular. I
keep meaning to try one at a local coffee shop that does a pretty
authentic Italian coffee experience.

[Ken Fortenberry]

<snip>
The bottom line here is never, ever trust the opinions of self-
appointed keepers of morality who have no experience with the
materials they desperately seek to regulate. Ignorance almost always
leads to ridiculously stupid policy recommendations.

I don't see it as an attempt at "morality" so much as a product
safety issue. I mean, isn't it the FDAs job to ensure that you
can go to the store and be reasonably sure that anything you
pick off the shelves is relatively safe ?

Humans have a natural defense against lethal alcohol poisoning,
we pass out. If you chemically suppress our natural defense
mechanism isn't that an unsafe product ?

At any rate, in trying to look at both sides of the issue I
would be loathe to use words like ignorance and ridiculously
stupid no matter which side of the argument I'm on.

[DGDevin]

Post by Ken Fortenberry
At any rate, in trying to look at both sides of the issue I
would be loathe to use words like ignorance and ridiculously
stupid no matter which side of the argument I'm on.
--
Ken Fortenberry

Ironic Post Of The Week Award.

[Garry the Island Boy]

Post by Ken Fortenberry

<snip>
The bottom line here is never, ever trust the opinions of self-
appointed keepers of morality who have no experience with the
materials they desperately seek to regulate.  Ignorance almost always
leads to ridiculously stupid policy recommendations.

I don't see it as an attempt at "morality" so much as a product
safety issue. I mean, isn't it the FDAs job to ensure that you
can go to the store and be reasonably sure that anything you
pick off the shelves is relatively safe ?
Humans have a natural defense against lethal alcohol poisoning,
we pass out. If you chemically suppress our natural defense
mechanism isn't that an unsafe product ?
At any rate, in trying to look at both sides of the issue I
would be loathe to use words like ignorance and ridiculously
stupid no matter which side of the argument I'm on.
--
Ken Fortenberry

The FDA act was the most effective way to stop addiction. . .
http://www.fda.gov/regulatoryinformation/legislation/federalfooddrugandcosmeticactfdcact/default.htm

because people were getting addicted to opium in "patent medicines"

G.

[volkfolk]

Post by James Pablos

Post by the felonious kidd
College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

1. Go out to your car and start it up. Put it in gear.
2. Jam your foot on the brake as hard as you can.
3. With your foot still on the brake, now jam your foot on the gas, as
hard as you can.
The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

Who cares? It's my body, it's none of your fucking business what I do
to it

Scot

[Tarp Skidoo]

In article

Post by volkfolk

Post by James Pablos
The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

Who cares? It's my body, it's none of your fucking business what I do
to it

Finally - the bottom line emergeth.

[Joker]

Post by Tarp Skidoo
In article

Post by volkfolk

Post by James Pablos
The result is a good analogy for what this "Four Loko" shit does to
your body.

Who cares? It's my body, it's none of your fucking business what I do
to it

Finally - the bottom line emergeth.

WIIAAHSWYP?

[Sweetbac]

My kids drink that shit...I thought it was some
froot juice or something.
Whatever.

[RandyStoner]

Post by the felonious kidd
First they came for my ma huong and I said nothing...
WASHINGTON — A New York senator says federal regulators are expected
to move to ban caffeinated alcoholic drinks as soon as this week.

When I first saw that federal regulators may ban caffeinated alcohol
drinks, I started to figure out how to make a comment on the
regulations. After all, what could be better than a coffee stout? So
I went to the FDA website, where I learned that they are seeking only
to regulate alcoholic beverages to which caffeine is used as an
additive unless the manufacturers can show that it is generally
accepted as safe. In their FAQ they address the question of why
caffeine can be added to colas and whether colas can be added to
alcoholic beverages and indicated that when the food product contains
caffeine, it can be added to alcohol without coming into the scope of
the potential regulation. If the final regulation does not contain
such an exception, there is a link on the FDA website that takes you
to a website where you can comment on the proposed regulation on-
line.

[volkfolk]

Post by the felonious kidd
First they came for my ma huong and I said nothing...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/16/four-loko-ban_n_784
236.html
http://tinyurl.com/29gt2q9
WASHINGTON — A New York senator says federal regulators are expected
to move to ban caffeinated alcoholic drinks as soon as this week.
Democratic Sen. Charles Schumer, who has pushed the Obama
administration to ban the beverages, said Tuesday that the Food and
Drug Administration is expected to find that caffeine is an unsafe
food additive to alcoholic drinks, essentially banning them.
The Federal Trade Commission will then issue letters to caffeinated
alcoholic beverage manufacturers warning that marketing them could be
illegal.
College students have been hospitalized after drinking the beverages,
including the popular Four Loko, and they have been banned in four
states.

Chuck sucks

Scot

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by the felonious kidd
WASHINGTON — A New York senator says federal regulators are expected
to move to ban caffeinated alcoholic drinks as soon as this week.

just saw this pop up on the google news feed:
http://online.wsj.com/article/AP6a16f9e21a594bfe9352538ab4013fff.html

"While there is little known medical evidence that the drinks are less
safe than other alcoholic drinks, public health advocates say they can
make people feel more alert and able to handle risky tasks like
driving."

From a strong position of public advocacy, dr.narcolepsy proposes that
instead of including caffeine in these drinks, manufacturers should be
encouraged to include muscle relaxers and sleep aids. "We don't want
anyone to feel like they're capable of driving, unless they really
want to," narcolepsy said.

[x***@xxx.com]

Post by dr.narcolepsy

WASHINGTON — A New York senator says federal regulators are expected
to move to ban caffeinated alcoholic drinks as soon as this week.

http://online.wsj.com/article/AP6a16f9e21a594bfe9352538ab4013fff.html
"While there is little known medical evidence that the drinks are less
safe than other alcoholic drinks, public health advocates say they can
make people feel more alert and able to handle risky tasks like
driving."
From a strong position of public advocacy, dr.narcolepsy proposes that
instead of including caffeine in these drinks, manufacturers should be
encouraged to include muscle relaxers and sleep aids. "We don't want
anyone to feel like they're capable of driving, unless they really
want to," narcolepsy said.

Yeah, let these drunken punks snort a line between beers like we had to do
as kids.