Everybody Out

[Omega]

As widely reported locally though not quite so much nationally, an
elderly peoples' care complex was burnt to the ground in Crewe, Cheshire
last thursday.

In the event of a fire in the premises, the Fire Service had previously
issued a 'stay put' policy, "we will come and save you"!

The first attending Fire Chief on seeing the ferocity of the fire
ordered an immediate evacuation, clearly in breach of his own Rescue
Services' doctrine.

Later he was commended by the Assistant Chief Fire Officer for Cheshire,
as had he not ordered this immediate evacuation, then possibly several
lives would have been lost!

It has made me very emotional that someone arrived with enough common
sense and defy the bullshit rules and went on to save many lives!

Of the reports I have read, his name wasn't mentioned but this guy is a
hero!

As an aside, a friend of mine, living about 15 minutes from Crewe asked
the very same Fire And Rescue Service for advice as to what she might do
in the event of a fire in her ground floor detached home. "Stay put, we
will come and get you".

Wasn't 'stay put' the official policy in the event of fire at Grenfell
Tower two years ago? And while the fire festered for several hours many
of the people who 'stayed put', stayed put and died!

Will we ever learn?

One hundred and fifty elderly, many of whom disabled, were safely
evacuated from the Crewe fire, no lives lost, no injuries. A major win
for all involved in the rescue.

omega

[GB]

Post by Omega
As widely reported locally though not quite so much nationally, an
elderly peoples' care complex was burnt to the ground in Crewe, Cheshire
last thursday.
In the event of a fire in the premises, the Fire Service had previously
issued a 'stay put' policy, "we will come and save you"!
The first attending Fire Chief on seeing the ferocity of the fire
ordered an immediate evacuation, clearly in breach of his own Rescue
Services' doctrine.
Later he was commended by the Assistant Chief Fire Officer for Cheshire,
as had he not ordered this immediate evacuation, then possibly several
lives would have been lost!
It has made me very emotional that someone arrived with enough common
sense and defy the bullshit rules and went on to save many lives!
Of the reports I have read, his name wasn't mentioned but this guy is a
hero!
As an aside, a friend of mine, living about 15 minutes from Crewe asked
the very same Fire And Rescue Service for advice as to what she might do
in the event of a fire in her ground floor detached home.  "Stay put, we
will come and get you".
Wasn't 'stay put' the official policy in the event of fire at Grenfell
Tower two years ago?  And while the fire festered for several hours many
of the people who 'stayed put', stayed put and died!
Will we ever learn?
One hundred and fifty elderly, many of whom disabled, were safely
evacuated from the Crewe fire, no lives lost, no injuries.   A major win
for all involved in the rescue.
omega

The same stay put philosophy resulted in extra deaths in the 9/11
atrocity. I think that able-bodied people who can safely exit the
building should normally do so at the first opportunity, even if it
means standing around outside for a while.

With the Crewe fire, I'm surprised that 150 elderly/disabled people were
evacuated without any injury. What was the weather like? Maybe the
outcome would be worse if it's freezing?

[Moomin]

Post by GB

Post by Omega
As widely reported locally though not quite so much nationally, an
elderly peoples' care complex was burnt to the ground in Crewe,
Cheshire last thursday.
In the event of a fire in the premises, the Fire Service had previously
issued a 'stay put' policy, "we will come and save you"!
The first attending Fire Chief on seeing the ferocity of the fire
ordered an immediate evacuation, clearly in breach of his own Rescue
Services' doctrine.
Later he was commended by the Assistant Chief Fire Officer for
Cheshire, as had he not ordered this immediate evacuation, then
possibly several lives would have been lost!
It has made me very emotional that someone arrived with enough common
sense and defy the bullshit rules and went on to save many lives!
Of the reports I have read, his name wasn't mentioned but this guy is a
hero!
As an aside, a friend of mine, living about 15 minutes from Crewe asked
the very same Fire And Rescue Service for advice as to what she might
do in the event of a fire in her ground floor detached home.  "Stay
put, we will come and get you".
Wasn't 'stay put' the official policy in the event of fire at Grenfell
Tower two years ago?  And while the fire festered for several hours
many of the people who 'stayed put', stayed put and died!
Will we ever learn?
One hundred and fifty elderly, many of whom disabled, were safely
evacuated from the Crewe fire, no lives lost, no injuries.   A major
win for all involved in the rescue.
omega

The same stay put philosophy resulted in extra deaths in the 9/11
atrocity. I think that able-bodied people who can safely exit the
building should normally do so at the first opportunity, even if it
means standing around outside for a while.
With the Crewe fire, I'm surprised that 150 elderly/disabled people were
evacuated without any injury. What was the weather like? Maybe the
outcome would be worse if it's freezing?

Better to die by cold ?

[Basil Jet]

Post by Moomin

Post by GB
With the Crewe fire, I'm surprised that 150 elderly/disabled people were
evacuated without any injury. What was the weather like? Maybe the
outcome would be worse if it's freezing?

Better to die by cold ?

Not easy when you're stood next to a fire.

[Joe]

On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 13:06:09 +0100

Post by Basil Jet

Post by Moomin

Post by GB
With the Crewe fire, I'm surprised that 150 elderly/disabled
people were evacuated without any injury. What was the weather
like? Maybe the outcome would be worse if it's freezing?

Better to die by cold ?

Not easy when you're stood next to a fire.

But people who stayed in the building because it was too cold outside
would know that they would be warm for the rest of their lives...

[Grikboxer®™]

Post by GB

Post by Omega
As widely reported locally though not quite so much nationally, an
elderly peoples' care complex was burnt to the ground in Crewe, Cheshire
last thursday.
In the event of a fire in the premises, the Fire Service had previously
issued a 'stay put' policy, "we will come and save you"!
The first attending Fire Chief on seeing the ferocity of the fire
ordered an immediate evacuation, clearly in breach of his own Rescue
Services' doctrine.
Later he was commended by the Assistant Chief Fire Officer for Cheshire,
as had he not ordered this immediate evacuation, then possibly several
lives would have been lost!
It has made me very emotional that someone arrived with enough common
sense and defy the bullshit rules and went on to save many lives!
Of the reports I have read, his name wasn't mentioned but this guy is a
hero!
As an aside, a friend of mine, living about 15 minutes from Crewe asked
the very same Fire And Rescue Service for advice as to what she might do
in the event of a fire in her ground floor detached home.  "Stay put, we
will come and get you".
Wasn't 'stay put' the official policy in the event of fire at Grenfell
Tower two years ago?  And while the fire festered for several hours many
of the people who 'stayed put', stayed put and died!
Will we ever learn?
One hundred and fifty elderly, many of whom disabled, were safely
evacuated from the Crewe fire, no lives lost, no injuries.   A major win
for all involved in the rescue.
omega

The same stay put philosophy resulted in extra deaths in the 9/11
atrocity.

What '9/11 atrocity'? Are you referring to the World Trade Plaza
incident?

[NEMO]

Post by Grikboxer®™
What '9/11 atrocity'?

Ask the cocksucking slut you imported from Poland, Andrzej... I
bet even SHE knows!

"It's the name of a river in Poland. My missus comes from over
there". -- Posted by sick old nazoid pedo Andrew "Andrzej"
Baron.

[Peeler]

On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 04:42:52 -0700, clinically insane, pedophilic, serbian
bitch Razovic, the resident psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous

Post by Grikboxer®™

Post by GB

Post by Omega
Wasn't 'stay put' the official policy in the event of fire at Grenfell
Tower two years ago?  And while the fire festered for several hours many
of the people who 'stayed put', stayed put and died!
Will we ever learn?
One hundred and fifty elderly, many of whom disabled, were safely
evacuated from the Crewe fire, no lives lost, no injuries.   A major win
for all involved in the rescue.
omega

The same stay put philosophy resulted in extra deaths in the 9/11
atrocity.

What '9/11 atrocity'? Are you referring to the World Trade Plaza
incident?

Take a guess, Retardovic!

[The Todal]

Post by GB

Post by Omega
As widely reported locally though not quite so much nationally, an
elderly peoples' care complex was burnt to the ground in Crewe,
Cheshire last thursday.
In the event of a fire in the premises, the Fire Service had
previously issued a 'stay put' policy, "we will come and save you"!
The first attending Fire Chief on seeing the ferocity of the fire
ordered an immediate evacuation, clearly in breach of his own Rescue
Services' doctrine.
Later he was commended by the Assistant Chief Fire Officer for
Cheshire, as had he not ordered this immediate evacuation, then
possibly several lives would have been lost!
It has made me very emotional that someone arrived with enough common
sense and defy the bullshit rules and went on to save many lives!
Of the reports I have read, his name wasn't mentioned but this guy is
a hero!
As an aside, a friend of mine, living about 15 minutes from Crewe
asked the very same Fire And Rescue Service for advice as to what she
might do in the event of a fire in her ground floor detached home.
"Stay put, we will come and get you".
Wasn't 'stay put' the official policy in the event of fire at Grenfell
Tower two years ago?  And while the fire festered for several hours
many of the people who 'stayed put', stayed put and died!
Will we ever learn?
One hundred and fifty elderly, many of whom disabled, were safely
evacuated from the Crewe fire, no lives lost, no injuries.   A major
win for all involved in the rescue.
omega

The same stay put philosophy resulted in extra deaths in the 9/11
atrocity.

Cite?

Anyone occupying floors that were above the point of impact could not,
surely, have descended below the inferno of aircraft fuel that had
quickly engulfed the floor where the impact occurred. And is there
evidence that people on lower floors were advised to stay put? More
likely they didn't realise how serious things were until it was too late.

Post by GB
I think that able-bodied people who can safely exit the
building should normally do so at the first opportunity, even if it
means standing around outside for a while.

However, as per the evidence given at the Grenfell Inquiry, if hordes of
people had tried to descend the stairs it would have been impossible for
firefighters with their equipment to have ascended those stairs at the
same time.

Post by GB
With the Crewe fire, I'm surprised that 150 elderly/disabled people were
evacuated without any injury. What was the weather like? Maybe the
outcome would be worse if it's freezing?

[GB]

Post by The Todal

Post by GB

Post by Omega
As widely reported locally though not quite so much nationally, an
elderly peoples' care complex was burnt to the ground in Crewe,
Cheshire last thursday.
In the event of a fire in the premises, the Fire Service had
previously issued a 'stay put' policy, "we will come and save you"!
The first attending Fire Chief on seeing the ferocity of the fire
ordered an immediate evacuation, clearly in breach of his own Rescue
Services' doctrine.
Later he was commended by the Assistant Chief Fire Officer for
Cheshire, as had he not ordered this immediate evacuation, then
possibly several lives would have been lost!
It has made me very emotional that someone arrived with enough common
sense and defy the bullshit rules and went on to save many lives!
Of the reports I have read, his name wasn't mentioned but this guy is
a hero!
As an aside, a friend of mine, living about 15 minutes from Crewe
asked the very same Fire And Rescue Service for advice as to what she
might do in the event of a fire in her ground floor detached home.
"Stay put, we will come and get you".
Wasn't 'stay put' the official policy in the event of fire at
Grenfell Tower two years ago?  And while the fire festered for
several hours many of the people who 'stayed put', stayed put and died!
Will we ever learn?
One hundred and fifty elderly, many of whom disabled, were safely
evacuated from the Crewe fire, no lives lost, no injuries.   A major
win for all involved in the rescue.
omega

The same stay put philosophy resulted in extra deaths in the 9/11
atrocity.

Cite?
Anyone occupying floors that were above the point of impact could not,
surely, have descended below the inferno of aircraft fuel that had
quickly engulfed the floor where the impact occurred. And is there
evidence that people on lower floors were advised to stay put? More
likely they didn't realise how serious things were until it was too late.

Post by GB
I think that able-bodied people who can safely exit the building
should normally do so at the first opportunity, even if it means
standing around outside for a while.

However, as per the evidence given at the Grenfell Inquiry, if hordes of
people had tried to descend the stairs it would have been impossible for
firefighters with their equipment to have ascended those stairs at the
same time.

Post by GB
With the Crewe fire, I'm surprised that 150 elderly/disabled people
were evacuated without any injury. What was the weather like? Maybe
the outcome would be worse if it's freezing?

[GB]

Post by The Todal

Post by GB
The same stay put philosophy resulted in extra deaths in the 9/11
atrocity.

Cite?
Anyone occupying floors that were above the point of impact could not,
surely, have descended below the inferno of aircraft fuel that had
quickly engulfed the floor where the impact occurred. And is there
evidence that people on lower floors were advised to stay put? More
likely they didn't realise how serious things were until it was too late.

I'll take back what I wrote. It appears the alarms sounded, and people
who could started to evacuate (albeit slowly in some cases). There were
around 200 civilian casualties below the floors at which the aircraft
struck.

Post by The Todal

Post by GB
I think that able-bodied people who can safely exit the building
should normally do so at the first opportunity, even if it means
standing around outside for a while.

However, as per the evidence given at the Grenfell Inquiry, if hordes of
people had tried to descend the stairs it would have been impossible for
firefighters with their equipment to have ascended those stairs at the
same time.

Some would have been outside before the fire brigade arrived, of course,
but what you have said is correct.

These concrete blocks had a very good fire safety history, until
modifications were made to make them more energy efficient at the
expense of fire safety. They were originally designed to make the stay
put philosophy work very well indeed. Steel Crittal windows are ideal in
a fire, for example.

What is needed is to make the blocks fire safe again.

[Stephen Cole]

Post by The Todal

Post by GB

Post by Omega
As widely reported locally though not quite so much nationally, an
elderly peoples' care complex was burnt to the ground in Crewe,
Cheshire last thursday.
In the event of a fire in the premises, the Fire Service had
previously issued a 'stay put' policy, "we will come and save you"!
The first attending Fire Chief on seeing the ferocity of the fire
ordered an immediate evacuation, clearly in breach of his own Rescue
Services' doctrine.
Later he was commended by the Assistant Chief Fire Officer for
Cheshire, as had he not ordered this immediate evacuation, then
possibly several lives would have been lost!
It has made me very emotional that someone arrived with enough common
sense and defy the bullshit rules and went on to save many lives!
Of the reports I have read, his name wasn't mentioned but this guy is
a hero!
As an aside, a friend of mine, living about 15 minutes from Crewe
asked the very same Fire And Rescue Service for advice as to what she
might do in the event of a fire in her ground floor detached home.
"Stay put, we will come and get you".
Wasn't 'stay put' the official policy in the event of fire at Grenfell
Tower two years ago?  And while the fire festered for several hours
many of the people who 'stayed put', stayed put and died!
Will we ever learn?
One hundred and fifty elderly, many of whom disabled, were safely
evacuated from the Crewe fire, no lives lost, no injuries.   A major
win for all involved in the rescue.
omega

The same stay put philosophy resulted in extra deaths in the 9/11
atrocity.

Cite?
Anyone occupying floors that were above the point of impact could not,
surely, have descended below the inferno of aircraft fuel that had
quickly engulfed the floor where the impact occurred. And is there
evidence that people on lower floors were advised to stay put? More
likely they didn't realise how serious things were until it was too late.

The second plane strike, iirc, completely severed all elevators and
stairwells in that tower, dooming everybody in the floors above the impact
point. The first tower, I believe, had at least one stairwell undamaged and
a limited number of people were able to make their way down it from higher
floors before the smoke and fire was too much to do so.

In terms of staying put, it is indeed the case that people in the *second
tower* were told to stay at their desks following the first strike on the
neighbouring tower as, until the second plane went in to them a short while
later, not many people were even aware that the fire they could see was
caused by a plane crash, let alone as part of a coordinated terrorist
attack. I don’t know off the top of my head if people in the first tower
were told to sit tight after the strike above them, but one would imagine
that the impact would have sounded and felt so terrifying that few would
want to sit around for very long.

[The Todal]

Post by Omega
As widely reported locally though not quite so much nationally, an
elderly peoples' care complex was burnt to the ground in Crewe, Cheshire
last thursday.
In the event of a fire in the premises, the Fire Service had previously
issued a 'stay put' policy, "we will come and save you"!
The first attending Fire Chief on seeing the ferocity of the fire
ordered an immediate evacuation, clearly in breach of his own Rescue
Services' doctrine.

Not a breach of anything.

The stay put policy applies to certain buildings, those where the fire
is likely to be compartmentalised. But the stay put policy can be
overriden by the senior officer at the scene, if conditions justify it.

The problem with Grenfell is that nobody made that assessment and gave
that instruction until it was too late to save a lot of victims. Anyone
ringing the Brigade and asking for advice would be told to stay put
because there was no feedback from the officers on the ground to the
call centre.

So the blame should be apportioned rather wider than to the
manufacturers or installers of the cladding.

As per my other post - if the Grenfell tenants had all attempted to flee
down the staircases, they would have obstructed the firefighters who
were trying to ascend the staircases with their equipment. So it isn't
entirely straightforward, finding a solution to the problem of fires in
high-rise buildings. Presumably the complex in Crewe wasn't a high-rise?

[Omega]

Post by The Todal

Post by Omega
As widely reported locally though not quite so much nationally, an
elderly peoples' care complex was burnt to the ground in Crewe,
Cheshire last thursday.
In the event of a fire in the premises, the Fire Service had
previously issued a 'stay put' policy, "we will come and save you"!
The first attending Fire Chief on seeing the ferocity of the fire
ordered an immediate evacuation, clearly in breach of his own Rescue
Services' doctrine.

Not a breach of anything.
The stay put policy applies to certain buildings, those where the fire
is likely to be compartmentalised. But the stay put policy can be
overriden by the senior officer at the scene, if conditions justify it.
The problem with Grenfell is that nobody made that assessment and gave
that instruction until it was too late to save a lot of victims. Anyone
ringing the Brigade and asking for advice would be told to stay put
because there was no feedback from the officers on the ground to the
call centre.
So the blame should be apportioned rather wider than to the
manufacturers or installers of the cladding.
As per my other post - if the Grenfell tenants had all attempted to flee
down the staircases, they would have obstructed the firefighters who
were trying to ascend the staircases with their equipment. So it isn't
entirely straightforward, finding a solution to the problem of fires in
high-rise buildings. Presumably the complex in Crewe wasn't a high-rise?

No not highrise, three or four stories at most as I remember the place.

omega