Conservatives hollowing out the State

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it? We seem to be
safe from this imaginary intrusion into democracy.

John Bowes

2020-11-30 21:28:06 UTC

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it? We seem to be
safe from this imaginary intrusion into democracy.

Sounds like Richie's left wing buddies in New Zealand and their takeover of the media and education :)

James Christophers

2020-11-30 23:52:53 UTC

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

Post by Tony
We seem to be safe from this imaginary intrusion into democracy.

As the article suggests, the UK is now run by a self-serving chumocracy which if recent history is anything to go by is now degenerating into a kleptocracy.

As ever, when two people (biddable politicians and corporate interests) get together to decide what to do with a third party's (the people's) money, fraud and the denuding of essential public infrastructure are the inevitable resuilt.

Tony

2020-12-01 01:00:36 UTC

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

Exactly.

Post by Tony
We seem to be safe from this imaginary intrusion into democracy.

As the article suggests, the UK is now run by a self-serving chumocracy which
if recent history is anything to go by is now degenerating into a kleptocracy.
As ever, when two people (biddable politicians and corporate interests) get
together to decide what to do with a third party's (the people's) money, fraud
and the denuding of essential public infrastructure are the inevitable resuilt.

James Christophers

2020-12-02 20:43:06 UTC

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

Exactly.

Since you appear only too anxious to align yourself with my arguably casual comparison between National and Labour, why not now add substance and validity to your response by formally defining 'centre' within the context of politics worldwide and New Zealand in particular? It matters because it is certainly germane to New Zealand's standing in the world and it's own internal functioning and progress.

Tony

2020-12-03 00:41:42 UTC

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

Exactly.

Since you appear only too anxious to align yourself with my arguably casual
comparison between National and Labour, why not now add substance and validity
to your response by formally defining 'centre' within the context of politics
worldwide and New Zealand in particular? It matters because it is certainly
germane to New Zealand's standing in the world and it's own internal
functioning and progress.

I did not follow you, I am my own person and am content with that. If you need
to have people reinforce your opinions it says a lot about you and nothing
about me.

James Christophers

2020-12-03 01:39:12 UTC

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

Exactly.

Since you appear only too anxious to align yourself with my arguably casual
comparison between National and Labour, why not now add substance and validity
to your response by formally defining 'centre' within the context of politics
worldwide and New Zealand in particular? It matters because it is certainly
germane to New Zealand's standing in the world and it's own internal
functioning and progress.

I did not follow you, I am my own person and am content with that.

Not following but alignment, a deliberately explicit term used to match the nature of your response.

Post by Tony
If you need to have people reinforce your opinions it says a lot about you and nothing about me.

Yet again, your recidivist side-stepping response again speaks volumes about you and your habitual blank refusal to advance and expand on your position through constructive, informative discourse, Ergo, your presence here is no more worthy or honourable than that of any cheap attention-seeking troll and spammer.

Tony

2020-12-03 02:10:27 UTC

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

Exactly.

Since you appear only too anxious to align yourself with my arguably casual
comparison between National and Labour, why not now add substance and validity
to your response by formally defining 'centre' within the context of politics
worldwide and New Zealand in particular? It matters because it is certainly
germane to New Zealand's standing in the world and it's own internal
functioning and progress.

I did not follow you, I am my own person and am content with that.

Not following but alignment, a deliberately explicit term used to match the
nature of your response.

Nonsense, a silly word to use.

Post by Tony
If you need to have people reinforce your opinions it says a lot about you
and nothing about me.

Abuse gone temporarily but sure as eggs are eggs you will be abusive again.
Won't you?

Rich80105

2020-12-01 01:53:32 UTC

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

The identification of left, right and centre are very subjective -
many National supporters probably consider themselves as
"centre-right," and Labour supporters as being "centre-left." One of
the few references I have been able to find that attempts to measure
this over time is here:
https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
It is however the relative movements that are instructive - compare
that graph with NZ 2017, 2014, 2011, 2008.

Essentially New Zealand is largely conservative - Labour moved
significantly to the right (and became more authoritarian than
previously) for the 2020 election - and perhaps for that reason being
able to take votes from National. NZ First and ACT have moved around
significantly.

The UK appears to have much greater choice - but it seems the new
leaders of Labour are seeking to shift that partly sharply towards the
centre . . . https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019

For a comparison of the US left/right divide, see
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
where Biden only fractionally to the left of the NZ National Party,
and Trump marginally more right, but significantly more authoritarian
than National . . .

I am not aware of any recognised commentators arguing that either
National in NZ or the Republican Party in the USA are not 'right
wing.'

Post by Tony
We seem to be safe from this imaginary intrusion into democracy.

As the article suggests, the UK is now run by a self-serving chumocracy which if recent history is anything to go by is now degenerating into a kleptocracy.
As ever, when two people (biddable politicians and corporate interests) get together to decide what to do with a third party's (the people's) money, fraud and the denuding of essential public infrastructure are the inevitable resuilt.

Tony

2020-12-01 01:59:54 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

The identification of left, right and centre are very subjective -
many National supporters probably consider themselves as
"centre-right," and Labour supporters as being "centre-left." One of
the few references I have been able to find that attempts to measure
https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
It is however the relative movements that are instructive - compare
that graph with NZ 2017, 2014, 2011, 2008.
Essentially New Zealand is largely conservative - Labour moved
significantly to the right (and became more authoritarian than
previously) for the 2020 election - and perhaps for that reason being
able to take votes from National. NZ First and ACT have moved around
significantly.
The UK appears to have much greater choice - but it seems the new
leaders of Labour are seeking to shift that partly sharply towards the
centre . . . https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019
For a comparison of the US left/right divide, see
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
where Biden only fractionally to the left of the NZ National Party,
and Trump marginally more right, but significantly more authoritarian
than National . . .
I am not aware of any recognised commentators arguing that either
National in NZ or the Republican Party in the USA are not 'right
wing.'

Can you find any that say they are right wing? That is the correct question.

Post by Tony
We seem to be safe from this imaginary intrusion into democracy.

As the article suggests, the UK is now run by a self-serving chumocracy which
if recent history is anything to go by is now degenerating into a kleptocracy.
As ever, when two people (biddable politicians and corporate interests) get
together to decide what to do with a third party's (the people's) money, fraud
and the denuding of essential public infrastructure are the inevitable resuilt.

Rich80105

2020-12-01 02:52:33 UTC

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 19:59:54 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

The identification of left, right and centre are very subjective -
many National supporters probably consider themselves as
"centre-right," and Labour supporters as being "centre-left." One of
the few references I have been able to find that attempts to measure
https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
It is however the relative movements that are instructive - compare
that graph with NZ 2017, 2014, 2011, 2008.
Essentially New Zealand is largely conservative - Labour moved
significantly to the right (and became more authoritarian than
previously) for the 2020 election - and perhaps for that reason being
able to take votes from National. NZ First and ACT have moved around
significantly.
The UK appears to have much greater choice - but it seems the new
leaders of Labour are seeking to shift that partly sharply towards the
centre . . . https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019
For a comparison of the US left/right divide, see
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
where Biden only fractionally to the left of the NZ National Party,
and Trump marginally more right, but significantly more authoritarian
than National . . .
I am not aware of any recognised commentators arguing that either
National in NZ or the Republican Party in the USA are not 'right
wing.'

Can you find any that say they are right wing? That is the correct question.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020 and
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
or perhaps
https://www.politicalcompass.org/usstates?ak=on&az=on&il=on&ny=on
where you can select states by clicking on the list - can you find a
state that is not in the top right quadrant?

Can you find any recognised commentator arguing that National in NZ is
"left-wing"?

Post by Tony
We seem to be safe from this imaginary intrusion into democracy.

As the article suggests, the UK is now run by a self-serving chumocracy which
if recent history is anything to go by is now degenerating into a kleptocracy.
As ever, when two people (biddable politicians and corporate interests) get
together to decide what to do with a third party's (the people's) money, fraud
and the denuding of essential public infrastructure are the inevitable resuilt.

Tony

2020-12-01 03:26:55 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 19:59:54 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

The identification of left, right and centre are very subjective -
many National supporters probably consider themselves as
"centre-right," and Labour supporters as being "centre-left." One of
the few references I have been able to find that attempts to measure
https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
It is however the relative movements that are instructive - compare
that graph with NZ 2017, 2014, 2011, 2008.
Essentially New Zealand is largely conservative - Labour moved
significantly to the right (and became more authoritarian than
previously) for the 2020 election - and perhaps for that reason being
able to take votes from National. NZ First and ACT have moved around
significantly.
The UK appears to have much greater choice - but it seems the new
leaders of Labour are seeking to shift that partly sharply towards the
centre . . . https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019
For a comparison of the US left/right divide, see
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
where Biden only fractionally to the left of the NZ National Party,
and Trump marginally more right, but significantly more authoritarian
than National . . .
I am not aware of any recognised commentators arguing that either
National in NZ or the Republican Party in the USA are not 'right
wing.'

Can you find any that say they are right wing? That is the correct question.

Nothing to do with this country.

Post by Rich80105
Can you find any recognised commentator arguing that National in NZ is
"left-wing"?

Why would I want to do that?

Post by Tony
We seem to be safe from this imaginary intrusion into democracy.

As the article suggests, the UK is now run by a self-serving chumocracy which
if recent history is anything to go by is now degenerating into a kleptocracy.
As ever, when two people (biddable politicians and corporate interests) get
together to decide what to do with a third party's (the people's) money, fraud
and the denuding of essential public infrastructure are the inevitable resuilt.

Gordon

2020-12-01 07:16:32 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

Post by Rich80105
(and became more authoritarian than
previously) for the 2020 election - and perhaps for that reason being
able to take votes from National. NZ First and ACT have moved around
significantly.
The UK appears to have much greater choice - but it seems the new
leaders of Labour are seeking to shift that partly sharply towards the
centre . . . https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019
For a comparison of the US left/right divide, see
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
where Biden only fractionally to the left of the NZ National Party,
and Trump marginally more right, but significantly more authoritarian
than National . . .
I am not aware of any recognised commentators arguing that either
National in NZ or the Republican Party in the USA are not 'right
wing.'

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

Rich80105

2020-12-01 09:39:00 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

I was talking about the shift in the graphs provided on the Politial
Compass site from 2017 to 2020 - these are assessments made before the
election, so may reflect the audience the parties were trying to
appeal to . . .

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Tony

2020-12-01 19:20:13 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions). Labour is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well established.

Rich80105

2020-12-02 02:14:05 UTC

On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions). Labour is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

To giove a comparison, in the USA it is generally accepted that the
Democratic Party is to the left of the Republican Party, but in
comparing those parties with Labour and National in New Zealand, we
see that National would be quite comfortable with many of the policies
of the Democratic Party; on many issues the Democrats are to the right
of National, and more to the right of NZ Labour.

Your personal views aside, this is all a diversion from this article:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

Would National still support such actions in New Zealand? We do know
that they have a close relationship with the UK Conservative party . .
.

Tony

2020-12-02 02:51:44 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions). Labour is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

You are the only person in the entire universe who believes that, What absolute
nonsense. The Labour party is clearly to the left of centre in the New Zealand
environment and you have provided no evidence that demonstrates otherwise.

Post by Rich80105
To giove a comparison, in the USA it is generally accepted that the
Democratic Party is to the left of the Republican Party, but in
comparing those parties with Labour and National in New Zealand, we
see that National would be quite comfortable with many of the policies
of the Democratic Party; on many issues the Democrats are to the right
of National, and more to the right of NZ Labour.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists
Would National still support such actions in New Zealand? We do know
that they have a close relationship with the UK Conservative party . .
.

John Bowes

2020-12-02 03:23:12 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions). Labour is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

Remember in Richie's opinion Stalin was centerist :)

Rich80105

2020-12-02 10:17:24 UTC

On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 20:51:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions). Labour is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

Big statements, with nothing to support them except your own
discredited "personal opinions." The political compass is evidence
that you are wrong, Tony - if you still disagree you may like to tell
us why, but I suspect you will not as you cannot; there is no evidence
that you even understand posts of others - it appears that all you
ever have is fact free comments, often offensive to others, spouting
unsupported personal opinions.

Tony

2020-12-02 19:32:08 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 20:51:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions). Labour is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

Wow you really hate being caught out in a lie. You have provided no evidence
that National are right of centre, not one little bit.
So go away you offensive old failure and get a real life.

Rich80105

2020-12-02 20:38:50 UTC

On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 13:32:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 20:51:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions). Labour is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

Wow you really hate being caught out in a lie. You have provided no evidence
that National are right of centre, not one little bit.
So go away you offensive old failure and get a real life.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
In New Zealand, Labour is to the left of National, but is still to the
right of centre.

You have no evidence to the contrary; on the contrary you appear to be
becoming more like Trump - self-deluded, prone to bluster and false
accusations of others, lacking self-awareness, and believing your own
personal opinions amount to evidence

John Bowes

2020-12-02 21:58:53 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 13:32:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 20:51:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right
are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions). Labour is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

Wow you really hate being caught out in a lie. You have provided no evidence
that National are right of centre, not one little bit.
So go away you offensive old failure and get a real life.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
In New Zealand, Labour is to the left of National, but is still to the
right of centre.
You have no evidence to the contrary; on the contrary you appear to be
becoming more like Trump - self-deluded, prone to bluster and false
accusations of others, lacking self-awareness, and believing your own
personal opinions amount to evidence

You Rich are stupid enough to base your opinion on a totally discredited piece of garbage. Typical of your totalitarian mindset!

Tony

2020-12-03 00:39:56 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 13:32:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 20:51:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right
are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions).
Labour
is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

Wow you really hate being caught out in a lie. You have provided no evidence
that National are right of centre, not one little bit.
So go away you offensive old failure and get a real life.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
In New Zealand, Labour is to the left of National, but is still to the
right of centre.
You have no evidence to the contrary; on the contrary you appear to be
becoming more like Trump - self-deluded, prone to bluster and false
accusations of others, lacking self-awareness, and believing your own
personal opinions amount to evidence

You are being abusive again.
No you are the Trump follower, lying whenever you have no evidence.
What you post as fact is in practice merely opinion supported by no facts.
You are making stuff up and using worthless so-called evidence.
The URL is open to debate and you know it.
Now stop wasting bandwidth you stupid little turd.

James Christophers

2020-12-03 01:43:58 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 13:32:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 20:51:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not
of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right
are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions).
Labour
is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well
established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

Wow you really hate being caught out in a lie. You have provided no evidence
that National are right of centre, not one little bit.
So go away you offensive old failure and get a real life.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
In New Zealand, Labour is to the left of National, but is still to the
right of centre.
You have no evidence to the contrary; on the contrary you appear to be
becoming more like Trump - self-deluded, prone to bluster and false
accusations of others, lacking self-awareness, and believing your own
personal opinions amount to evidence

But your specious, unsupported spoutings? Never.

Post by Tony
Now stop wasting bandwidth you stupid little turd.

But not until after you have taken your own advice.

Tony

2020-12-03 02:08:39 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 13:32:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 20:51:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is
not
of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the
right
are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions).
Labour
is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well
established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

Wow you really hate being caught out in a lie. You have provided no evidence
that National are right of centre, not one little bit.
So go away you offensive old failure and get a real life.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
In New Zealand, Labour is to the left of National, but is still to the
right of centre.
You have no evidence to the contrary; on the contrary you appear to be
becoming more like Trump - self-deluded, prone to bluster and false
accusations of others, lacking self-awareness, and believing your own
personal opinions amount to evidence

But your specious, unsupported spoutings? Never.

Pots and kettles alive and well here except you are significantly worse and
always the first to become abusive. You become abusive anytime someone has the
temerity to disagree with you unless of course you are playing that childish
game you so love. Eh?

Post by Tony
Now stop wasting bandwidth you stupid little turd.

But not until after you have taken your own advice.

Ah but that remark, as you very well know, was not aimed at you so specious is
as specious does. Eh?

James Christophers

2020-12-03 03:54:53 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 13:32:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 20:51:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is
not
of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the
right
are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

Post by Rich80105
(and became more authoritarian than
previously) for the 2020 election - and perhaps for that reason
being
able to take votes from National. NZ First and ACT have moved
around
significantly.
The UK appears to have much greater choice - but it seems the new
leaders of Labour are seeking to shift that partly sharply towards
the
centre . . . https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019
For a comparison of the US left/right divide, see
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
where Biden only fractionally to the left of the NZ National
Party,
and Trump marginally more right, but significantly more
authoritarian
than National . . .
I am not aware of any recognised commentators arguing that either
National in NZ or the Republican Party in the USA are not 'right
wing.'

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and
right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions).
Labour
is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well
established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

You are the only person in the entire universe who believes that, What
absolute
nonsense. The Labour party is clearly to the left of centre in the New
Zealand
environment and you have provided no evidence that demonstrates otherwise.

Wow you really hate being caught out in a lie. You have provided no evidence
that National are right of centre, not one little bit.
So go away you offensive old failure and get a real life.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
In New Zealand, Labour is to the left of National, but is still to the
right of centre.
You have no evidence to the contrary; on the contrary you appear to be
becoming more like Trump - self-deluded, prone to bluster and false
accusations of others, lacking self-awareness, and believing your own
personal opinions amount to evidence

But your specious, unsupported spoutings? Never.

Post by Tony
Now stop wasting bandwidth you stupid little turd.

But not until after you have taken your own advice.

Ah but that remark, as you very well know, was not aimed at you...

No matter. In your all-consuming haste - not to mention your gratuitous abusiveness - you have foolishly and hypocritically laid yourself wide open to ridicule. Your comeuppance from whatever quarter is therefore both appropriate and well merited, so suck it up like a genuine, honest man for once, and mend your ways.

...so specious is as specious does. Eh?

Indeed so, it being your sole Usenet stock-in-trade, pervading and polluting virtually every topic that you refuse usefully to engage with or inform, noisy, recalcitrant cot case that you are.

Tony

2020-12-03 04:28:10 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 13:32:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 20:51:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

On Tuesday, 1 December 2020 at 08:12:47 UTC+13, undefined

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand
is
not
of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the
right
are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't
it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

I was talking about the shift in the graphs provided on the Politial
Compass site from 2017 to 2020 - these are assessments made before
the
election, so may reflect the audience the parties were trying to
appeal to . . .

Post by Rich80105
(and became more authoritarian than
previously) for the 2020 election - and perhaps for that reason
being
able to take votes from National. NZ First and ACT have moved
around
significantly.
The UK appears to have much greater choice - but it seems the
new
leaders of Labour are seeking to shift that partly sharply
towards
the
centre . . . https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019
For a comparison of the US left/right divide, see
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
where Biden only fractionally to the left of the NZ National
Party,
and Trump marginally more right, but significantly more
authoritarian
than National . . .
I am not aware of any recognised commentators arguing that
either
National in NZ or the Republican Party in the USA are not 'right
wing.'

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and
right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a
discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions).
Labour
is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well
established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

You are the only person in the entire universe who believes that, What
absolute
nonsense. The Labour party is clearly to the left of centre in the New
Zealand
environment and you have provided no evidence that demonstrates otherwise.

Wow you really hate being caught out in a lie. You have provided no evidence
that National are right of centre, not one little bit.
So go away you offensive old failure and get a real life.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
In New Zealand, Labour is to the left of National, but is still to the
right of centre.
You have no evidence to the contrary; on the contrary you appear to be
becoming more like Trump - self-deluded, prone to bluster and false
accusations of others, lacking self-awareness, and believing your own
personal opinions amount to evidence

But your specious, unsupported spoutings? Never.

Post by Tony
Now stop wasting bandwidth you stupid little turd.

But not until after you have taken your own advice.

Ah but that remark, as you very well know, was not aimed at you...

No it is you that is always abusive and all know that to be true (except you,
you poor old sod).

Post by James Christophers
...so specious is as specious does. Eh?
Indeed so, it being your sole Usenet stock-in-trade, pervading and polluting
virtually every topic that you refuse usefully to engage with or inform, noisy,
recalcitrant cot case that you are.

Indeed, indeed so. Yes you are exactly that and prove it every time you abuse
your keyboard.

John Bowes

2020-12-03 05:47:48 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Wed, 02 Dec 2020 13:32:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 20:51:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

On Tuesday, 1 December 2020 at 08:12:47 UTC+13, undefined

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand
is
not
of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the
right
are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't
it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

I was talking about the shift in the graphs provided on the
Politial
Compass site from 2017 to 2020 - these are assessments made before
the
election, so may reflect the audience the parties were trying to
appeal to . . .

Post by Rich80105
(and became more authoritarian than
previously) for the 2020 election - and perhaps for that reason
being
able to take votes from National. NZ First and ACT have moved
around
significantly.
The UK appears to have much greater choice - but it seems the
new
leaders of Labour are seeking to shift that partly sharply
towards
the
centre . . . https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019
For a comparison of the US left/right divide, see
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020
where Biden only fractionally to the left of the NZ National
Party,
and Trump marginally more right, but significantly more
authoritarian
than National . . .
I am not aware of any recognised commentators arguing that
either
National in NZ or the Republican Party in the USA are not
'right
wing.'

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and
right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a
discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions).
Labour
is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well
established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

You are the only person in the entire universe who believes that, What
absolute
nonsense. The Labour party is clearly to the left of centre in the New
Zealand
environment and you have provided no evidence that demonstrates
otherwise.

Wow you really hate being caught out in a lie. You have provided no
evidence
that National are right of centre, not one little bit.
So go away you offensive old failure and get a real life.

https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
In New Zealand, Labour is to the left of National, but is still to the
right of centre.
You have no evidence to the contrary; on the contrary you appear to be
becoming more like Trump - self-deluded, prone to bluster and false
accusations of others, lacking self-awareness, and believing your own
personal opinions amount to evidence

But your specious, unsupported spoutings? Never.

Post by Tony
Now stop wasting bandwidth you stupid little turd.

But not until after you have taken your own advice.

Ah but that remark, as you very well know, was not aimed at you...

No it is you that is always abusive and all know that to be true (except you,
you poor old sod).

Indeed, indeed so. Yes you are exactly that and prove it every time you abuse
your keyboard.

Why is it Rich and Keith degenerate to abuse when they're lying? Is it just their totalitarian mindset, stupidity or both?

George

2020-12-03 19:00:24 UTC

On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 21:47:48 -0800 (PST)

Post by John Bowes
Why is it Rich and Keith degenerate to abuse when they're lying? Is
it just their totalitarian mindset, stupidity or both?

Which is why they both now reside within my killfile.
Its enough corresponding with the good guys here without pandering to
crazies

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

John Bowes

2020-12-02 21:57:03 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 20:51:44 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right
are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions). Labour is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

Wow you really hate being caught out in a lie. You have provided no evidence
that National are right of centre, not one little bit.
So go away you offensive old failure and get a real life.

Love the way Rich sees his failures in everyone else. Only confirming he's just another f$%^&*g imbecile with delusions of perfection :)

John Bowes

2020-12-02 03:22:35 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Tue, 01 Dec 2020 13:20:13 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

Post by Rich80105
A good description of what Key was aiming for. New Zealand is not of
course the same as the UK, but the subversive motives of the right are

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

We are talking 1984 yes?

As you say, Right-wing and Left-wing are relative terms. Left and right
anything is relative.

As are Libertarian / Authoritarian, but in the context of a discussion
about political positioning, there are reasonably consistent
understandings among political scientists..

Yes there are amongst factions (most understandings have factions). Labour is
left of centre and National is slightly nearer centre. That is well established.

To you perhaps, but I accept that you are only giving your own
personal opinion. Yes I agree that Labour is to the left of National,
but Labour is itself slightly to the right of centre.

Only if you believe Stalin was a centrist Rich!

Bullshit! typical left wing non speak typical of fucking imbeciles like you and your glorious leader!

Post by Rich80105
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/30/tories-thatcher-democracy-michael-gove-marxist-theorists

So?

Post by Rich80105
Would National still support such actions in New Zealand? We do know
that they have a close relationship with the UK Conservative party . .
.

Got any proof or is this just more bullshit from the little voices in your head?

John Bowes

2020-12-01 07:16:43 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

The identification of left, right and centre are very subjective -
many National supporters probably consider themselves as
"centre-right," and Labour supporters as being "centre-left." One of
the few references I have been able to find that attempts to measure
https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
It is however the relative movements that are instructive - compare
that graph with NZ 2017, 2014, 2011, 2008.
Essentially New Zealand is largely conservative - Labour moved
significantly to the right (and became more authoritarian than
previously) for the 2020 election - and perhaps for that reason being
able to take votes from National. NZ First and ACT have moved around
significantly.
The UK appears to have much greater choice - but it seems the new
leaders of Labour are seeking to shift that partly sharply towards the
centre . . . https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019
For a comparison of the US left/right divide, see
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020

Half your problem Rich is you rely on this piece of crap to justify yourself and your claims of others. Personaly i'm not left or right! I believe in democracy!

Post by Rich80105
where Biden only fractionally to the left of the NZ National Party,
and Trump marginally more right, but significantly more authoritarian
than National . . .

The only party more authoritarian than National are your glorious Labour/Green Marxists Rich!

Post by Rich80105
I am not aware of any recognised commentators arguing that either
National in NZ or the Republican Party in the USA are not 'right
wing.'

You RicH are not aware of very much :)

Post by Tony
We seem to be safe from this imaginary intrusion into democracy.

As the article suggests, the UK is now run by a self-serving chumocracy which if recent history is anything to go by is now degenerating into a kleptocracy.
As ever, when two people (biddable politicians and corporate interests) get together to decide what to do with a third party's (the people's) money, fraud and the denuding of essential public infrastructure are the inevitable resuilt.

Rich80105

2020-12-01 09:42:07 UTC

On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 23:16:43 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

The identification of left, right and centre are very subjective -
many National supporters probably consider themselves as
"centre-right," and Labour supporters as being "centre-left." One of
the few references I have been able to find that attempts to measure
https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
It is however the relative movements that are instructive - compare
that graph with NZ 2017, 2014, 2011, 2008.
Essentially New Zealand is largely conservative - Labour moved
significantly to the right (and became more authoritarian than
previously) for the 2020 election - and perhaps for that reason being
able to take votes from National. NZ First and ACT have moved around
significantly.
The UK appears to have much greater choice - but it seems the new
leaders of Labour are seeking to shift that partly sharply towards the
centre . . . https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019
For a comparison of the US left/right divide, see
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020

Half your problem Rich is you rely on this piece of crap to justify yourself and your claims of others. Personaly i'm not left or right! I believe in democracy!

All political parties profess to also believe in democracy - which
perhaps just indicates that you are all over the place.

Post by Rich80105
where Biden only fractionally to the left of the NZ National Party,
and Trump marginally more right, but significantly more authoritarian
than National . . .

The only party more authoritarian than National are your glorious Labour/Green Marxists Rich!

Do you have any evidence supporting that?

Post by Rich80105
I am not aware of any recognised commentators arguing that either
National in NZ or the Republican Party in the USA are not 'right
wing.'

You RicH are not aware of very much :)

Do you think we are kindred spirits then, JohN?

Post by Tony
We seem to be safe from this imaginary intrusion into democracy.

As the article suggests, the UK is now run by a self-serving chumocracy which if recent history is anything to go by is now degenerating into a kleptocracy.
As ever, when two people (biddable politicians and corporate interests) get together to decide what to do with a third party's (the people's) money, fraud and the denuding of essential public infrastructure are the inevitable resuilt.

John Bowes

2020-12-01 22:04:32 UTC

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 23:16:43 -0800 (PST), John Bowes

Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 30 Nov 2020 15:52:53 -0800 (PST), James Christophers

It's a good job that National are not right wing then, isn't it?

Considered marginally less left-of-center than Labour.

The identification of left, right and centre are very subjective -
many National supporters probably consider themselves as
"centre-right," and Labour supporters as being "centre-left." One of
the few references I have been able to find that attempts to measure
https://www.politicalcompass.org/nz2020
It is however the relative movements that are instructive - compare
that graph with NZ 2017, 2014, 2011, 2008.
Essentially New Zealand is largely conservative - Labour moved
significantly to the right (and became more authoritarian than
previously) for the 2020 election - and perhaps for that reason being
able to take votes from National. NZ First and ACT have moved around
significantly.
The UK appears to have much greater choice - but it seems the new
leaders of Labour are seeking to shift that partly sharply towards the
centre . . . https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk2019
For a comparison of the US left/right divide, see
https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020

Half your problem Rich is you rely on this piece of crap to justify yourself and your claims of others. Personaly i'm not left or right! I believe in democracy!

All political parties profess to also believe in democracy - which
perhaps just indicates that you are all over the place.

Professing and practicing aren't the same Rich! your glorious Labour party are about to remove our democratic right to speak our minds by bringing in hate laws! An attack on democracy if I've ever seen one. Today they're going to continue the attack by declaring a climate emergency! The only emergency I see in New Zealand is education of the halfwits like you that gave us the circus we have masquerading as a government with a leader :)

What it indicates Rich is a love of freedom and a contempt for Marxist muppets who love growing the government!

Post by Rich80105
where Biden only fractionally to the left of the NZ National Party,
and Trump marginally more right, but significantly more authoritarian
than National . . .

The only party more authoritarian than National are your glorious Labour/Green Marxists Rich!

Do you have any evidence supporting that?

Post by Rich80105
I am not aware of any recognised commentators arguing that either
National in NZ or the Republican Party in the USA are not 'right
wing.'

You RicH are not aware of very much :)

Do you think we are kindred spirits then, JohN?

Not even close Rich. You're a fucking imbecile. I read history and can see it being repeated in New Zealand under the Marxist regime idiots like you gave us!