Uh oh, I bounced off this book

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konkoly/dp/1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning. Maybe it just
about politics and dystopian societies and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the fifties,
when it was a new and frightening concept.

And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen. Rather,
Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.

(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson," adhered to
by some people in rural Northern California and rural Southern
Oregon. They want to be their own State and not be ruled by
Sacramento and Salem. That's not gonna happen either, they've
been trying for a long time, but they just don't have the
population to make it happen.)

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Dimensional Traveler

2018-11-02 20:02:43 UTC

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the fifties,
when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen. Rather,
Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson," adhered to
by some people in rural Northern California and rural Southern
Oregon. They want to be their own State and not be ruled by
Sacramento and Salem. That's not gonna happen either, they've
been trying for a long time, but they just don't have the
population to make it happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was more of a
Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a days.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.

Dorothy J Heydt

2018-11-02 22:18:26 UTC

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the fifties,
when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen. Rather,
Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson," adhered to
by some people in rural Northern California and rural Southern
Oregon. They want to be their own State and not be ruled by
Sacramento and Salem. That's not gonna happen either, they've
been trying for a long time, but they just don't have the
population to make it happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was more of a
Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to succeed,
they're doing no harm.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Kevrob

2018-11-02 22:55:11 UTC

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the fifties,
when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen. Rather,
Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson," adhered to
by some people in rural Northern California and rural Southern
Oregon. They want to be their own State and not be ruled by
Sacramento and Salem. That's not gonna happen either, they've
been trying for a long time, but they just don't have the
population to make it happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was more of a
Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to succeed,
they're doing no harm.

It was a complaint against the state governments in Sacramento and
Salem ignoring their region's infrastructure needs. The protests
were cut short by the Pearl Harbor attack.

Nowadays, it seems to be a backlash against immigration, along with
rural concerns.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-state-of-jefferson-activists-20180317-htmlstory.html

Great flag, though:

https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-jeff.html

The 2 "Xs" stand for a "double cross."

My favorite "disunited States" stories are Ron Goulart's
"Fragmented America" series. A bit dated, now, but funny!

http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?14261

---
Kevin R
a.a #2310

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2018-11-02 23:18:00 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konkoly/dp
/1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies and
not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the
fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California and
rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own State and
not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's not gonna
happen either, they've been trying for a long time, but they
just don't have the population to make it happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was more
of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to succeed,
they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Ted Nolan <tednolan>

2018-11-03 01:41:32 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konkoly/dp
/1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies and
not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the
fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California and
rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own State and
not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's not gonna
happen either, they've been trying for a long time, but they
just don't have the population to make it happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was more
of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to succeed,
they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states had representation
in the State Senate done by some formula like "one member from each county".
This had the effect it has in the US Senate where populous states can't
run completely roughshod over the interests of rural states. 1964's
"Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and now you have
situations like California and Upstate New York where the population has
no way to have their concerns addressed in the state capital.

--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

Ninapenda Jibini

2018-11-03 19:10:10 UTC

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 6:30:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konkoly/
dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies and
not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the
fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California and
rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own State
and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's not
gonna happen either, they've been trying for a long time,
but they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was
more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a
days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to succeed,
they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states had
representation in the State Senate done by some formula like
"one member from each county". This had the effect it has in the
US Senate where populous states can't run completely roughshod
over the interests of rural states. 1964's "Reynolds v. Sims"
put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and now you have situations
like California and Upstate New York where the population has
no way to have their concerns addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to bend
Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes a pretty
extreme situation, but it's there.

A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could easily turn
into that sort of thing. (Water rights in California have always
been a pretty major issue. One dispute, many years ago, over
Colorado River water would have turned into a shooting war with
Arizona - they were both states at that point, mind you - if the
feds hadn't intervened with troops of their own.)

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Lynn McGuire

2018-11-05 18:44:36 UTC

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 6:30:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konkoly/
dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies and
not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the
fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California and
rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own State
and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's not
gonna happen either, they've been trying for a long time,
but they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was
more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a
days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to succeed,
they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states had
representation in the State Senate done by some formula like
"one member from each county". This had the effect it has in the
US Senate where populous states can't run completely roughshod
over the interests of rural states. 1964's "Reynolds v. Sims"
put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and now you have situations
like California and Upstate New York where the population has
no way to have their concerns addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to bend
Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes a pretty
extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could easily turn
into that sort of thing. (Water rights in California have always
been a pretty major issue. One dispute, many years ago, over
Colorado River water would have turned into a shooting war with
Arizona - they were both states at that point, mind you - if the
feds hadn't intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California build an
enormous nuclear power complex for sea water desalinization.

Lynn

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2018-11-05 18:26:08 UTC

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 6:30:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konkol
y/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies and
not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the
fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California
and rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own
State and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's
not gonna happen either, they've been trying for a long
time, but they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was
more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a
days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to succeed,
they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states had
representation in the State Senate done by some formula like
"one member from each county". This had the effect it has in
the US Senate where populous states can't run completely
roughshod over the interests of rural states. 1964's "Reynolds
v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and now you have
situations like California and Upstate New York where the
population has no way to have their concerns addressed in the
state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes a
pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could easily
turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in California have
always been a pretty major issue. One dispute, many years ago,
over Colorado River water would have turned into a shooting war
with Arizona - they were both states at that point, mind you -
if the feds hadn't intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California build
an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water desalinization.

Interesting in a "stupidly disconnected from reality" sort of way,
I suppose. Californians will likely resort to cannibalism and
drinking on another's blood before they build a nuclear *anything*.
In fact, it is currently just flat illegal to build nuclear power
plants, and desal plants are automatically suspect because the fish
who live near where the brine gets pumped out are obviously *far*
more important than people.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Lynn McGuire

2018-11-05 20:04:15 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konkol
y/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies and
not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the
fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California
and rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own
State and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's
not gonna happen either, they've been trying for a long
time, but they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was
more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a
days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to succeed,
they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states had
representation in the State Senate done by some formula like
"one member from each county". This had the effect it has in
the US Senate where populous states can't run completely
roughshod over the interests of rural states. 1964's "Reynolds
v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and now you have
situations like California and Upstate New York where the
population has no way to have their concerns addressed in the
state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes a
pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could easily
turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in California have
always been a pretty major issue. One dispute, many years ago,
over Colorado River water would have turned into a shooting war
with Arizona - they were both states at that point, mind you -
if the feds hadn't intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California build
an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water desalinization.

Ah, I assumed that there was some degree of common sense in California.
I will try not to make that mistake again.

Lynn

Alan Baker

2018-11-05 20:38:24 UTC

Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konkol
y/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies and
not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the
fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California
and rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own
State and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's
not gonna happen either, they've been trying for a long
time, but they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was
more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a
days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to succeed,
they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states had
representation in the State Senate done by some formula like
"one member from each county". This had the effect it has in
the US Senate where populous states can't run completely
roughshod over the interests of rural states. 1964's "Reynolds
v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and now you have
situations like California and Upstate New York where the
population has no way to have their concerns addressed in the
state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes a
pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could easily
turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in California have
always been a pretty major issue. One dispute, many years ago,
over Colorado River water would have turned into a shooting war
with Arizona - they were both states at that point, mind you -
if the feds hadn't intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California build
an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water desalinization.

Ah, I assumed that there was some degree of common sense in California.
I will try not to make that mistake again.
Lynn

You're assuming that because Terry wrote something that it must bear any
relationship to the facts?

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2018-11-05 20:20:40 UTC

The lies (and sexual obsession with me) continue.

Uh oh, I bounced off this book.Â _Fractured State_
by Steven Konkoly
Â Â Â Â Â
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konkol
Â Â Â Â Â y/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies
and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in
the fifties, when it was a new and frightening
concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California
and rural Southern Oregon.Â They want to be their own
State and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem.Â
That's not gonna happen either, they've been trying
for a long time, but they just don't have the
population to make it happen.)

I think they know that.Â I got the impression that it
was more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick
now a days.

Possibly.Â In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

It was a complaint against the state governments in
Sacramento and Salem ignoring their region's
infrastructure needs.Â The protests were cut short by
the Pearl Harbor attack.
Nowadays, it seems to be a backlash against immigration,
along with rural concerns.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states
had representation in the State Senate done by some formula
like "one member from each county". This had the effect it
has in the US Senate where populous states can't run
completely roughshod over the interests of rural states.
1964's "Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely
IMHO, and now you have situations like California and
Upstate New York where the population has no way to have
their concerns addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes
a pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could
easily turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in
California have always been a pretty major issue. One
dispute, many years ago, over Colorado River water would
have turned into a shooting war with Arizona - they were
both states at that point, mind you - if the feds hadn't
intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California
build an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water
desalinization.

Ah, I assumed that there was some degree of common sense in
California. I will try not to make that mistake again.
Lynn

You're assuming that because Terry wrote something that it must
bear any relationship to the facts?

--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Alan Baker

2018-11-05 21:30:17 UTC

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
The lies (and sexual obsession with me) continue.

Let's put my last text next to this...

Post by Alan Baker
You're assuming that because Terry wrote something that it must
bear any relationship to the facts?

:-)

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2018-11-05 21:50:49 UTC

The lies continue.

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
The lies (and sexual obsession with me) continue.

Let's put my last text next to this...

Post by Alan Baker
You're assuming that because Terry wrote something that it must
bear any relationship to the facts?

:-)

Pretending you're kidding makes you look stupid.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Robert Carnegie

2018-11-06 22:17:34 UTC

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
The lies (and sexual obsession with me) continue.

Let's put my last text next to this...

Post by Alan Baker
You're assuming that because Terry wrote something that it must
bear any relationship to the facts?

This whole topic, at least in the latest few dozen contributions,
is a good indicator of people that it's a mistake even to read.

Which I'd been thinking of as an "evangelists writing in alt.atheism"
thing - the sort of "evangelists" who in fact are /not/ good news.

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2018-11-05 20:20:20 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Kon
kol y/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies
and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in
the fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California
and rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own
State and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's
not gonna happen either, they've been trying for a long
time, but they just don't have the population to make
it happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it
was more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick
now a days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states had
representation in the State Senate done by some formula like
"one member from each county". This had the effect it has in
the US Senate where populous states can't run completely
roughshod over the interests of rural states. 1964's
"Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and
now you have situations like California and Upstate New York
where the population has no way to have their concerns
addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes a
pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could easily
turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in California
have always been a pretty major issue. One dispute, many
years ago, over Colorado River water would have turned into a
shooting war with Arizona - they were both states at that
point, mind you - if the feds hadn't intervened with troops
of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California
build an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water
desalinization.

Ah, I assumed that there was some degree of common sense in
California.

Why on earth would you assume that? Have you suffered a serious
head injury recently? Californians are entirely capable of getting
very worked up over things that matter - don't mess with our cars,
for instance - and actually *do* something, dammit!, but will
generally choose the stupidest possible response.

Post by Lynn McGuire
I will try not to make that mistake again.

Heh.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Dimensional Traveler

2018-11-06 00:01:28 UTC

Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konkol
y/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies and
not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the
fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California
and rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own
State and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's
not gonna happen either, they've been trying for a long
time, but they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was
more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a
days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to succeed,
they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states had
representation in the State Senate done by some formula like
"one member from each county". This had the effect it has in
the US Senate where populous states can't run completely
roughshod over the interests of rural states. 1964's "Reynolds
v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and now you have
situations like California and Upstate New York where the
population has no way to have their concerns addressed in the
state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes a
pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could easily
turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in California have
always been a pretty major issue. One dispute, many years ago,
over Colorado River water would have turned into a shooting war
with Arizona - they were both states at that point, mind you -
if the feds hadn't intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California build
an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water desalinization.

Ah, I assumed that there was some degree of common sense in California.
I will try not to make that mistake again.

That's okay, we'll just change the definition of common sense here in
Cali so you can't avoid making the same mistake again.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.

Dorothy J Heydt

2018-11-05 22:41:59 UTC

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 6:30:03 PM UTC-4, Dorothy J

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konkoly/
dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies and
not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the
fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California and
rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own State
and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's not
gonna happen either, they've been trying for a long time,
but they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was
more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a
days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to succeed,
they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states had
representation in the State Senate done by some formula like
"one member from each county". This had the effect it has in the
US Senate where populous states can't run completely roughshod
over the interests of rural states. 1964's "Reynolds v. Sims"
put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and now you have situations
like California and Upstate New York where the population has
no way to have their concerns addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to bend
Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes a pretty
extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could easily turn
into that sort of thing. (Water rights in California have always
been a pretty major issue. One dispute, many years ago, over
Colorado River water would have turned into a shooting war with
Arizona - they were both states at that point, mind you - if the
feds hadn't intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California build an
enormous nuclear power complex for sea water desalinization.

At this stage, much more likely solar.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2018-11-05 21:54:11 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konko
ly/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies
and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the
fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California
and rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own
State and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's
not gonna happen either, they've been trying for a long
time, but they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was
more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a
days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states had
representation in the State Senate done by some formula like
"one member from each county". This had the effect it has in
the US Senate where populous states can't run completely
roughshod over the interests of rural states. 1964's
"Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and now
you have situations like California and Upstate New York
where the population has no way to have their concerns
addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes a
pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could easily
turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in California have
always been a pretty major issue. One dispute, many years ago,
over Colorado River water would have turned into a shooting
war with Arizona - they were both states at that point, mind
you - if the feds hadn't intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California build
an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water desalinization.

At this stage, much more likely solar.

Could be, but desal has issues in and of itself, because it
produces large amounts of brine that has to go *somewhere*, and the
greens are opposed to it going back into the ocean. (But then, in
CA, the greens are opposed to anything that involves not destroying
the quality of life for humans. Except themselves.)
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Lynn McGuire

2018-11-05 23:26:37 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konko
ly/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies
and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the
fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California
and rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own
State and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's
not gonna happen either, they've been trying for a long
time, but they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was
more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a
days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states had
representation in the State Senate done by some formula like
"one member from each county". This had the effect it has in
the US Senate where populous states can't run completely
roughshod over the interests of rural states. 1964's
"Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and now
you have situations like California and Upstate New York
where the population has no way to have their concerns
addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes a
pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could easily
turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in California have
always been a pretty major issue. One dispute, many years ago,
over Colorado River water would have turned into a shooting
war with Arizona - they were both states at that point, mind
you - if the feds hadn't intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California build
an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water desalinization.

At this stage, much more likely solar.

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the ocean water
rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

Lynn

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2018-11-05 23:00:14 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Ko
nko ly/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies
and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in
the fifties, when it was a new and frightening
concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California
and rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own
State and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem.
That's not gonna happen either, they've been trying
for a long time, but they just don't have the
population to make it happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it
was more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick
now a days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states
had representation in the State Senate done by some formula
like "one member from each county". This had the effect it
has in the US Senate where populous states can't run
completely roughshod over the interests of rural states.
1964's "Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely
IMHO, and now you have situations like California and
Upstate New York where the population has no way to have
their concerns addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes
a pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could
easily turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in
California have always been a pretty major issue. One
dispute, many years ago, over Colorado River water would
have turned into a shooting war with Arizona - they were
both states at that point, mind you - if the feds hadn't
intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California
build an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water
desalinization.

At this stage, much more likely solar.

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the ocean
water rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

Yes. It is an issue *now*, and has been for many years.

To get a good view of what the greens spew look here:

https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/news/ocean-desalination-no-
solution-water-shortages

https://tinyurl.com/yccqtald

(It doesn't matter how big a pile of stinking bullshit this is.
It's what the greens peddle to voters, and voters here *believe*
is.)

"Desalination is bad for the environment and human health. The by-
products of desalination include coagulalants, bisulfates, and
chlorines. When concentrated waste is dumped into the ocean as it
is with desalination, it is harmful to marine life and
environments. Furthermore, power plants intake mechanisms, which
are often teamed with desalination plants, kill at least 3.4
billion fish and other marine organisms annually. In addition to
upsetting marine environments, desalination causes fishermen to
lose at least 165 million pounds of fish a year today and 717.1
million pounds of potential future catch."

(And other hysterical propaganda. Welcome to California. Now go
home.)

There has been some success at using reverse osmosis to reclaim
waste water (the so-called "toilets to tap" programs), but that's
whole different animal (it involves pumping the R/O water back into
the underground aquifer, not putting it directly into the system)
and on a much smaller scale.

(You're also underestimating the impact on the brine at the local
level. What goes back into the ocean is about half as much water as
what came in, so it's a *lot* saltier when it comes out. This does
actually have a detrimental effect on the local area around the
outflow pipes. It can be dealt with, but that means more $$$ on and
already obscenely expensive process.)
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Alan Baker

2018-11-06 00:02:57 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Ko
nko ly/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies
and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in
the fifties, when it was a new and frightening
concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California
and rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own
State and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem.
That's not gonna happen either, they've been trying
for a long time, but they just don't have the
population to make it happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it
was more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick
now a days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states
had representation in the State Senate done by some formula
like "one member from each county". This had the effect it
has in the US Senate where populous states can't run
completely roughshod over the interests of rural states.
1964's "Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely
IMHO, and now you have situations like California and
Upstate New York where the population has no way to have
their concerns addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes
a pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could
easily turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in
California have always been a pretty major issue. One
dispute, many years ago, over Colorado River water would
have turned into a shooting war with Arizona - they were
both states at that point, mind you - if the feds hadn't
intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California
build an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water
desalinization.

At this stage, much more likely solar.

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the ocean
water rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

And we should just take your word for it that this is bullshit, should we?

Why?

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2018-11-05 23:47:56 UTC

The lies continue.

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 6:30:03 PM UTC-4,

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_
by Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven
-Ko nko ly/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is
waning. Maybe it just about politics and dystopian
societies and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in
the fifties, when it was a new and frightening
concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the
US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of
Jefferson," adhered to by some people in rural
Northern California and rural Southern Oregon. They
want to be their own State and not be ruled by
Sacramento and Salem. That's not gonna happen
either, they've been trying for a long time, but
they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it
was more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing
schtick now a days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states
had representation in the State Senate done by some
formula like "one member from each county". This had the
effect it has in the US Senate where populous states
can't run completely roughshod over the interests of
rural states. 1964's "Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to
this, unwisely IMHO, and now you have situations like
California and Upstate New York where the population has
no way to have their concerns addressed in the state
capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known
to bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass.
Takes a pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could
easily turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in
California have always been a pretty major issue. One
dispute, many years ago, over Colorado River water would
have turned into a shooting war with Arizona - they were
both states at that point, mind you - if the feds hadn't
intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California
build an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water
desalinization.

At this stage, much more likely solar.

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the
ocean water rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

And we should just take your word for it that this is bullshit, should we?
Why?

Alan Baker

2018-11-06 05:15:02 UTC

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
The lies continue.

I'm willing to let others judge whether what I said was "lies"...

...but are you?

:-)

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
(It doesn't matter how big a pile of stinking bullshit this is.
It's what the greens peddle to voters, and voters here
*believe* is.)

And we should just take your word for it that this is bullshit, should we?
Why?

Ninapenda Jibini

2018-11-06 06:23:36 UTC

The lies (and sexual obsession with me) continue.

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
The lies continue.

I'm willing to let others judge whether what I said was "lies"...
...but are you?
:-)

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
(It doesn't matter how big a pile of stinking bullshit this

is.

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
It's what the greens peddle to voters, and voters here
*believe* is.)

And we should just take your word for it that this is bullshit, should we?
Why?

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Lynn McGuire

2018-11-06 02:03:03 UTC

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Ko
nko ly/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies
and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in
the fifties, when it was a new and frightening
concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California
and rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own
State and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem.
That's not gonna happen either, they've been trying
for a long time, but they just don't have the
population to make it happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it
was more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick
now a days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states
had representation in the State Senate done by some formula
like "one member from each county". This had the effect it
has in the US Senate where populous states can't run
completely roughshod over the interests of rural states.
1964's "Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely
IMHO, and now you have situations like California and
Upstate New York where the population has no way to have
their concerns addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes
a pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could
easily turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in
California have always been a pretty major issue. One
dispute, many years ago, over Colorado River water would
have turned into a shooting war with Arizona - they were
both states at that point, mind you - if the feds hadn't
intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California
build an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water
desalinization.

At this stage, much more likely solar.

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the ocean
water rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

Yes. It is an issue *now*, and has been for many years.
https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/news/ocean-desalination-no-
solution-water-shortages
https://tinyurl.com/yccqtald
(It doesn't matter how big a pile of stinking bullshit this is.
It's what the greens peddle to voters, and voters here *believe*
is.)
"Desalination is bad for the environment and human health. The by-
products of desalination include coagulalants, bisulfates, and
chlorines. When concentrated waste is dumped into the ocean as it
is with desalination, it is harmful to marine life and
environments. Furthermore, power plants’ intake mechanisms, which
are often teamed with desalination plants, kill at least 3.4
billion fish and other marine organisms annually. In addition to
upsetting marine environments, desalination causes fishermen to
lose at least 165 million pounds of fish a year today and 717.1
million pounds of potential future catch."
(And other hysterical propaganda. Welcome to California. Now go
home.)
There has been some success at using reverse osmosis to reclaim
waste water (the so-called "toilets to tap" programs), but that's
whole different animal (it involves pumping the R/O water back into
the underground aquifer, not putting it directly into the system)
and on a much smaller scale.
(You're also underestimating the impact on the brine at the local
level. What goes back into the ocean is about half as much water as
what came in, so it's a *lot* saltier when it comes out. This does
actually have a detrimental effect on the local area around the
outflow pipes. It can be dealt with, but that means more $$$ on and
already obscenely expensive process.)

There is a old engineering rule, "when in doubt, dilute it more".

Just pump in more "fresh" ocean water into the outlet piping before
putting it into the ocean.

Lynn

Ninapenda Jibini

2018-11-06 03:26:10 UTC

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 6:30:03 PM UTC-4,

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_
by Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven
-Ko nko ly/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is
waning. Maybe it just about politics and dystopian
societies and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in
the fifties, when it was a new and frightening
concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the
US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of
Jefferson," adhered to by some people in rural
Northern California and rural Southern Oregon. They
want to be their own State and not be ruled by
Sacramento and Salem. That's not gonna happen
either, they've been trying for a long time, but
they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it
was more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing
schtick now a days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states
had representation in the State Senate done by some
formula like "one member from each county". This had the
effect it has in the US Senate where populous states
can't run completely roughshod over the interests of
rural states. 1964's "Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to
this, unwisely IMHO, and now you have situations like
California and Upstate New York where the population has
no way to have their concerns addressed in the state
capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known
to bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass.
Takes a pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could
easily turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in
California have always been a pretty major issue. One
dispute, many years ago, over Colorado River water would
have turned into a shooting war with Arizona - they were
both states at that point, mind you - if the feds hadn't
intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California
build an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water
desalinization.

At this stage, much more likely solar.

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the
ocean water rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

Yes. It is an issue *now*, and has been for many years.
https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/news/ocean-desalination-no-
solution-water-shortages
https://tinyurl.com/yccqtald
(It doesn't matter how big a pile of stinking bullshit this is.
It's what the greens peddle to voters, and voters here
*believe* is.)
"Desalination is bad for the environment and human health. The
by- products of desalination include coagulalants, bisulfates,
and chlorines. When concentrated waste is dumped into the ocean
as it is with desalination, it is harmful to marine life and
environments. Furthermore, power plantsâ intake mechanisms,
which are often teamed with desalination plants, kill at least
3.4 billion fish and other marine organisms annually. In
addition to upsetting marine environments, desalination causes
fishermen to lose at least 165 million pounds of fish a year
today and 717.1 million pounds of potential future catch."
(And other hysterical propaganda. Welcome to California. Now go
home.)
There has been some success at using reverse osmosis to reclaim
waste water (the so-called "toilets to tap" programs), but
that's whole different animal (it involves pumping the R/O
water back into the underground aquifer, not putting it
directly into the system) and on a much smaller scale.
(You're also underestimating the impact on the brine at the
local level. What goes back into the ocean is about half as
much water as what came in, so it's a *lot* saltier when it
comes out. This does actually have a detrimental effect on the
local area around the outflow pipes. It can be dealt with, but
that means more $$$ on and already obscenely expensive
process.)

There is a old engineering rule, "when in doubt, dilute it
more".
Just pump in more "fresh" ocean water into the outlet piping
before putting it into the ocean.

I suspect the people who do it for a living know it better than you
do, and they seem to think it's a bit more complicated than that.

But, again, and I'll use small words this time, even though you
obviously aren't listening, it really does not matter what the
actual facts are, or what the science says. The greens tell people
what to vote for, and (so long as it doesn't conflict with what the
unions tell people to vote for) they vote for it. If Al Gore told
Californians to vote to double their taxes to pay (the unions) to
move the earth further from the sun to counteract global warming,
it's pass in a landslide.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Alan Baker

2018-11-06 05:17:35 UTC

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 6:30:03 PM UTC-4,

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_
by Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven
-Ko nko ly/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is
waning. Maybe it just about politics and dystopian
societies and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in
the fifties, when it was a new and frightening
concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the
US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of
Jefferson," adhered to by some people in rural
Northern California and rural Southern Oregon. They
want to be their own State and not be ruled by
Sacramento and Salem. That's not gonna happen
either, they've been trying for a long time, but
they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it
was more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing
schtick now a days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states
had representation in the State Senate done by some
formula like "one member from each county". This had the
effect it has in the US Senate where populous states
can't run completely roughshod over the interests of
rural states. 1964's "Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to
this, unwisely IMHO, and now you have situations like
California and Upstate New York where the population has
no way to have their concerns addressed in the state
capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known
to bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass.
Takes a pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could
easily turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in
California have always been a pretty major issue. One
dispute, many years ago, over Colorado River water would
have turned into a shooting war with Arizona - they were
both states at that point, mind you - if the feds hadn't
intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California
build an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water
desalinization.

At this stage, much more likely solar.

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the
ocean water rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

Yes. It is an issue *now*, and has been for many years.
https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/news/ocean-desalination-no-
solution-water-shortages
https://tinyurl.com/yccqtald
(It doesn't matter how big a pile of stinking bullshit this is.
It's what the greens peddle to voters, and voters here
*believe* is.)
"Desalination is bad for the environment and human health. The
by- products of desalination include coagulalants, bisulfates,
and chlorines. When concentrated waste is dumped into the ocean
as it is with desalination, it is harmful to marine life and
environments. Furthermore, power plantsâ€™ intake mechanisms,
which are often teamed with desalination plants, kill at least
3.4 billion fish and other marine organisms annually. In
addition to upsetting marine environments, desalination causes
fishermen to lose at least 165 million pounds of fish a year
today and 717.1 million pounds of potential future catch."
(And other hysterical propaganda. Welcome to California. Now go
home.)
There has been some success at using reverse osmosis to reclaim
waste water (the so-called "toilets to tap" programs), but
that's whole different animal (it involves pumping the R/O
water back into the underground aquifer, not putting it
directly into the system) and on a much smaller scale.
(You're also underestimating the impact on the brine at the
local level. What goes back into the ocean is about half as
much water as what came in, so it's a *lot* saltier when it
comes out. This does actually have a detrimental effect on the
local area around the outflow pipes. It can be dealt with, but
that means more $$$ on and already obscenely expensive
process.)

There is a old engineering rule, "when in doubt, dilute it
more".
Just pump in more "fresh" ocean water into the outlet piping
before putting it into the ocean.

I suspect the people who do it for a living know it better than you
do, and they seem to think it's a bit more complicated than that.

Do YOU do this for a living?

Have you cited anyone who does this for a living?

:-)

Ninapenda Jibini

2018-11-06 06:23:05 UTC

The lies (and sexual obsession with me) continue.

On 11/5/2018 3:54 PM, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

On Friday, November 2, 2018 at 6:30:03 PM UTC-4,

Post by Lynn McGuire
Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured
State_ by Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Ste
ven -Ko nko ly/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is
waning. Maybe it just about politics and
dystopian societies and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like,
in the fifties, when it was a new and frightening
concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna
happen. Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest
of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of
Jefferson," adhered to by some people in rural
Northern California and rural Southern Oregon.
They want to be their own State and not be ruled
by Sacramento and Salem. That's not gonna happen
either, they've been trying for a long time, but
they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that
it was more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing
schtick now a days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many
states had representation in the State Senate done by
some formula like "one member from each county". This
had the effect it has in the US Senate where populous
states can't run completely roughshod over the
interests of rural states. 1964's "Reynolds v. Sims"
put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and now you have
situations like California and Upstate New York where
the population has no way to have their concerns
addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known
to bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass.
Takes a pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could
easily turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in
California have always been a pretty major issue. One
dispute, many years ago, over Colorado River water would
have turned into a shooting war with Arizona - they were
both states at that point, mind you - if the feds hadn't
intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had
California build an enormous nuclear power complex for
sea water desalinization.

At this stage, much more likely solar.

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the
ocean water rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

Yes. It is an issue *now*, and has been for many years.
https://www.foodandwaterwatch.org/news/ocean-desalination-no-
solution-water-shortages
https://tinyurl.com/yccqtald
(It doesn't matter how big a pile of stinking bullshit this
is. It's what the greens peddle to voters, and voters here
*believe* is.)
"Desalination is bad for the environment and human health.
The by- products of desalination include coagulalants,
bisulfates, and chlorines. When concentrated waste is dumped
into the ocean as it is with desalination, it is harmful to
marine life and environments. Furthermore, power
plantsÃ¢â¬â¢ intake mechanisms, which are often teamed with
desalination plants, kill at least 3.4 billion fish and other
marine organisms annually. In addition to upsetting marine
environments, desalination causes fishermen to lose at least
165 million pounds of fish a year today and 717.1 million
pounds of potential future catch."
(And other hysterical propaganda. Welcome to California. Now
go home.)
There has been some success at using reverse osmosis to
reclaim waste water (the so-called "toilets to tap"
programs), but that's whole different animal (it involves
pumping the R/O water back into the underground aquifer, not
putting it directly into the system) and on a much smaller
scale.
(You're also underestimating the impact on the brine at the
local level. What goes back into the ocean is about half as
much water as what came in, so it's a *lot* saltier when it
comes out. This does actually have a detrimental effect on
the local area around the outflow pipes. It can be dealt
with, but that means more $$$ on and already obscenely
expensive process.)

There is a old engineering rule, "when in doubt, dilute it
more".
Just pump in more "fresh" ocean water into the outlet piping
before putting it into the ocean.

I suspect the people who do it for a living know it better than
you do, and they seem to think it's a bit more complicated than
that.

Do YOU do this for a living?
Have you cited anyone who does this for a living?
:-)

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Alan Baker

2018-11-06 17:34:18 UTC

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
The lies (and sexual obsession with me) continue.

Post by Ninapenda Jibini
I suspect the people who do it for a living know it better than
you do, and they seem to think it's a bit more complicated than
that.

Do YOU do this for a living?
Have you cited anyone who does this for a living?
:-)

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2018-11-06 17:02:35 UTC

The lies (and sexual obsession with me) continue.

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
The lies (and sexual obsession with me) continue.

Post by Ninapenda Jibini
I suspect the people who do it for a living know it better than
you do, and they seem to think it's a bit more complicated than
that.

Do YOU do this for a living?
Have you cited anyone who does this for a living?
:-)

Pretending you're kidding makes you look retarded.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

William Hyde

2018-11-06 20:30:42 UTC

On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 10:26:13 PM UTC-5, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
If Al Gore told

Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Californians to vote to double their taxes to pay (the unions) to
move the earth further from the sun to counteract global warming,
it's pass in a landslide.

That would lengthen the year, hence the seasons. Summer and winter would become more extreme (Hotter summers for Texas! More Hurricanes for Lynn! Nasty winters for me!). Migratory times and patterns would be messed up, wine grapes would have to be crossed to ripen at the new proper time (there goes French support) and so on.

Then would come the protests about our sacred 365.24 day year. Religious calendars messed up! Indigenous ceremonies ruined! Nobody can agree on the date of Easter!

An international conference on the new calendar ends in fisticuffs! On the plus side, businesses report a sharp increase in quarterly profit (because there are more days in a quarter, but they keep that quiet).

Finally, the astrologers would come for you, armed with paper and protractors.

Frankly I'd rather fry.

William Hyde

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2018-11-06 19:43:10 UTC

Post by William Hyde
On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 10:26:13 PM UTC-5, Ninapenda
If Al Gore told

Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Californians to vote to double their taxes to pay (the unions)
to move the earth further from the sun to counteract global
warming, it's pass in a landslide.

That would lengthen the year, hence the seasons. Summer and
winter would become more extreme (Hotter summers for Texas! More
Hurricanes for Lynn! Nasty winters for me!). Migratory times
and patterns would be messed up, wine grapes would have to be
crossed to ripen at the new proper time (there goes French
support) and so on.
Then would come the protests about our sacred 365.24 day year.
Religious calendars messed up! Indigenous ceremonies ruined!
Nobody can agree on the date of Easter!
An international conference on the new calendar ends in
fisticuffs! On the plus side, businesses report a sharp
increase in quarterly profit (because there are more days in a
quarter, but they keep that quiet).

(Aside from practical issues of _changing the earth's orbit_) So?
If St. Al says it's so, it's so, and anybody who claims otherwise
is a denier.

This is, as Lynn notes, Kalifornia, after all. Reality was banned
through the initiative process decades ago.

Post by William Hyde
Finally, the astrologers would come for you, armed with paper
and protractors.

And they'd bring their celebrity clients with them, and in this
state, *nobody* fucks with Hollywood.

Post by William Hyde
Frankly I'd rather fry.

So there'd be an upside?
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Dimensional Traveler

2018-11-06 22:15:08 UTC

Post by William Hyde
On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 10:26:13 PM UTC-5, Ninapenda
If Al Gore told

Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Californians to vote to double their taxes to pay (the unions)
to move the earth further from the sun to counteract global
warming, it's pass in a landslide.

That would lengthen the year, hence the seasons. Summer and
winter would become more extreme (Hotter summers for Texas! More
Hurricanes for Lynn! Nasty winters for me!). Migratory times
and patterns would be messed up, wine grapes would have to be
crossed to ripen at the new proper time (there goes French
support) and so on.
Then would come the protests about our sacred 365.24 day year.
Religious calendars messed up! Indigenous ceremonies ruined!
Nobody can agree on the date of Easter!
An international conference on the new calendar ends in
fisticuffs! On the plus side, businesses report a sharp
increase in quarterly profit (because there are more days in a
quarter, but they keep that quiet).

(Aside from practical issues of _changing the earth's orbit_) So?
If St. Al says it's so, it's so, and anybody who claims otherwise
is a denier.
This is, as Lynn notes, Kalifornia, after all. Reality was banned
through the initiative process decades ago.

A little known codicil of Prop 13, wasn't it?

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2018-11-06 21:24:09 UTC

Post by William Hyde
On Monday, November 5, 2018 at 10:26:13 PM UTC-5, Ninapenda
If Al Gore told

Post by Ninapenda Jibini
Californians to vote to double their taxes to pay (the
unions) to move the earth further from the sun to counteract
global warming, it's pass in a landslide.

That would lengthen the year, hence the seasons. Summer and
winter would become more extreme (Hotter summers for Texas!
More Hurricanes for Lynn! Nasty winters for me!). Migratory
times and patterns would be messed up, wine grapes would have
to be crossed to ripen at the new proper time (there goes
French support) and so on.
Then would come the protests about our sacred 365.24 day year.
Religious calendars messed up! Indigenous ceremonies ruined!
Nobody can agree on the date of Easter!
An international conference on the new calendar ends in
fisticuffs! On the plus side, businesses report a sharp
increase in quarterly profit (because there are more days in a
quarter, but they keep that quiet).

(Aside from practical issues of _changing the earth's orbit_)
So? If St. Al says it's so, it's so, and anybody who claims
otherwise is a denier.
This is, as Lynn notes, Kalifornia, after all. Reality was
banned through the initiative process decades ago.

A little known codicil of Prop 13, wasn't it?

That and many other small bricks in a very big wall.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Scott Lurndal

2018-11-06 14:07:07 UTC

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
(You're also underestimating the impact on the brine at the local
level. What goes back into the ocean is about half as much water as
what came in, so it's a *lot* saltier when it comes out. This does
actually have a detrimental effect on the local area around the
outflow pipes. It can be dealt with, but that means more $$$ on and
already obscenely expensive process.)

There is a old engineering rule, "when in doubt, dilute it more".
Just pump in more "fresh" ocean water into the outlet piping before
putting it into the ocean.

They do, of course. Why don't you read up on the process a bit
before spouting more nonsense.

The carlsbad desal plant desalinates used cooling water from the
adjacent power plant, and the brine effluent is diluted with the
remainder of the cooling water before discharge.

Dimensional Traveler

2018-11-06 00:03:56 UTC

Uh oh, I bounced off this book. _Fractured State_ by
Steven Konkoly
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konko
ly/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is waning.
Maybe it just about politics and dystopian societies
and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in the
fifties, when it was a new and frightening concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern California
and rural Southern Oregon. They want to be their own
State and not be ruled by Sacramento and Salem. That's
not gonna happen either, they've been trying for a long
time, but they just don't have the population to make it
happen.)

I think they know that. I got the impression that it was
more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick now a
days.

Possibly. In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states had
representation in the State Senate done by some formula like
"one member from each county". This had the effect it has in
the US Senate where populous states can't run completely
roughshod over the interests of rural states. 1964's
"Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to this, unwisely IMHO, and now
you have situations like California and Upstate New York
where the population has no way to have their concerns
addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes a
pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could easily
turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in California have
always been a pretty major issue. One dispute, many years ago,
over Colorado River water would have turned into a shooting
war with Arizona - they were both states at that point, mind
you - if the feds hadn't intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California build
an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water desalinization.

At this stage, much more likely solar.

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the ocean water
rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

There is at least one group that would.

--
Inquiring minds want to know while minds with a self-preservation
instinct are running screaming.

Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha

2018-11-05 23:52:51 UTC

Uh oh, I bounced off this book.Â _Fractured State_
by Steven Konkoly
Â Â Â Â Â
https://www.amazon.com/Fractured-State-Steven-Konko
Â Â Â Â Â ly/ dp /1503935582/
Maybe my taste for post apocalyptic novels is
waning. Maybe it just about politics and dystopian
societies and not interesting.

I lost my taste for that genre long ago ... like, in
the fifties, when it was a new and frightening
concept.
And as for California seceding ... not gonna happen.
Rather, Caifornia will assimilate the rest of the US.
(Now, there is the hypothetical "State of Jefferson,"
adhered to by some people in rural Northern
California and rural Southern Oregon.Â They want to
be their own State and not be ruled by Sacramento and
Salem.Â That's not gonna happen either, they've been
trying for a long time, but they just don't have the
population to make it happen.)

I think they know that.Â I got the impression that it
was more of a Chamber of Commerce PR/Marketing schtick
now a days.

Possibly.Â In any case, since they're not going to
succeed, they're doing no harm.

And water rights. And distribution of tax revenues.

Don't know about California, but at one time many states
had representation in the State Senate done by some
formula like "one member from each county". This had the
effect it has in the US Senate where populous states can't
run completely roughshod over the interests of rural
states. 1964's "Reynolds v. Sims" put a stop to this,
unwisely IMHO, and now you have situations like California
and Upstate New York where the population has no way to
have their concerns addressed in the state capital.

California has an initiative process that has been known to
bend Sacramento over a barrel and fuck it in the ass. Takes
a pretty extreme situation, but it's there.
A lack of sufficient water for the LA metro area could
easily turn into that sort of thing. (Water rights in
California have always been a pretty major issue. One
dispute, many years ago, over Colorado River water would
have turned into a shooting war with Arizona - they were
both states at that point, mind you - if the feds hadn't
intervened with troops of their own.)

The book did have an interesting turn as it had California
build an enormous nuclear power complex for sea water
desalinization.

At this stage, much more likely solar.

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the ocean
water rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

There is at least one group that would.

And they've already spent millions on legal fees to keep any such
thing from happening.
--
Terry Austin

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Scott Lurndal

2018-11-06 00:08:40 UTC

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Could be, but desal has issues in and of itself, because it
produces large amounts of brine that has to go *somewhere*, and the
greens are opposed to it going back into the ocean. (But then, in
CA, the greens are opposed to anything that involves not destroying
the quality of life for humans. Except themselves.)

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the ocean water
rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

You're supposed to be the smart guy, how long does it take for a
50% brine being continuously emitted to reach equilibrium with the
rest of the ocean? What is the effect of the effluent on the
immediate area around the outflow?

Lynn McGuire

2018-11-06 02:07:52 UTC

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the ocean water
rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

When in doubt, dilute it some more.

And the outlet is not 50% salt. It might be 60,000 TDS. TDS = total
dissolved solids and is parts per million.

If you can get a liquid mixture that is 50% salt to flow and not plug
the pipe, patent it. People will beat a path to your door. Otherwise,
take a hike.

Lynn

Ninapenda Jibini

2018-11-06 03:29:28 UTC

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Could be, but desal has issues in and of itself, because it
produces large amounts of brine that has to go *somewhere*,
and the greens are opposed to it going back into the ocean.
(But then, in CA, the greens are opposed to anything that
involves not destroying the quality of life for humans.
Except themselves.)

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the
ocean water rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

You're supposed to be the smart guy, how long does it take for
a 50% brine being continuously emitted to reach equilibrium
with the rest of the ocean? What is the effect of the effluent
on the immediate area around the outflow?

When in doubt, dilute it some more.
And the outlet is not 50% salt. It might be 60,000 TDS. TDS =
total dissolved solids and is parts per million.

It's still enough to cause localized effects around the outflow
pipe. It _is_ an issue, no matter how furiously you masturbate over
it. There *are* ways to dealing with it, but a) they cost money,
and b) in California, noboby gives a fuck if there's a solution or
not, technology is the second most evil thing that has ever
existed, right behind human beings (except themselves, of course).

Post by Lynn McGuire
If you can get a liquid mixture that is 50% salt to flow and not
plug the pipe, patent it. People will beat a path to your door.
Otherwise, take a hike.

That's trivial, and has been done many times. Of course, it does
involve 1,500° F temperatures, which would even give people with a
normal IQ pause before pumping it into the ocean.

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

Lynn McGuire

2018-11-06 18:41:55 UTC

Post by Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha
Could be, but desal has issues in and of itself, because it
produces large amounts of brine that has to go *somewhere*,
and the greens are opposed to it going back into the ocean.
(But then, in CA, the greens are opposed to anything that
involves not destroying the quality of life for humans.
Except themselves.)

So they would have a problem with the salt content of the
ocean water rising from 30,000 TDS to 30,000.00001 TDS ?

You're supposed to be the smart guy, how long does it take for
a 50% brine being continuously emitted to reach equilibrium
with the rest of the ocean? What is the effect of the effluent
on the immediate area around the outflow?

When in doubt, dilute it some more.
And the outlet is not 50% salt. It might be 60,000 TDS. TDS =
total dissolved solids and is parts per million.

Post by Lynn McGuire
If you can get a liquid mixture that is 50% salt to flow and not
plug the pipe, patent it. People will beat a path to your door.
Otherwise, take a hike.

That's trivial, and has been done many times. Of course, it does
involve 1,500° F temperatures, which would even give people with a
normal IQ pause before pumping it into the ocean.

If that is the solution then just run the outlet pipe through a volcano.
Note, there are several to the west of California at about six ???
hours flying time. Some people call them Hawaii.

Lynn

Dimensional Traveler

2018-11-06 19:49:49 UTC