Discussion:
YOYOY (umra TV Club grumble-sesh)
(too old to reply)
Mike Ruddock
2019-02-04 10:28:02 UTC
Permalink
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat trailers
for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The Glums was a
very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous episodes ended
in a situation that needed space for the viewer to breathe, to mull
over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and make sure we don't
get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm answering my own
question, this is a rant, not a forensic investigation) that completely
broke the mood. If I were the writer or director or one of the cast I'd
be bloody furious that my audience were being denied the opportunity to
appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
john
I know not of these Glums of which you speak (the only ones I know of
were in Take It From Here some substantial fraction of a century ago and
on the talking type radio) but I unhesitatingly support your rant. I am
surprised that Equity doesn't take a stand on the matter.

Mike Ruddock
Mike
2019-02-04 10:33:05 UTC
Permalink
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat trailers
for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The Glums was a
very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous episodes ended
in a situation that needed space for the viewer to breathe, to mull
over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and make sure we don't
get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm answering my own
question, this is a rant, not a forensic investigation) that completely
broke the mood. If I were the writer or director or one of the cast I'd
be bloody furious that my audience were being denied the opportunity to
appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
john
As an ex techie with ACTT membership for some years, I couldn’t agree more!
--
Toodle Pip
Sid Nuncius
2019-02-04 10:35:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ruddock
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat
trailers for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The
Glums was a very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous
episodes ended in a situation that needed space for the viewer to
breathe, to mull over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and
make sure we don't get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm
answering my own question, this is a rant, not a forensic
investigation) that completely broke the mood. If I were the writer or
director or one of the cast I'd be bloody furious that my audience
were being denied the opportunity to appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
I know not of these Glums of which you speak (the only ones I know of
were in Take It From Here some substantial fraction of a century ago and
on the talking type radio) but I unhesitatingly support your rant. I am
surprised that Equity doesn't take a stand on the matter.
Les Misérables is sometimes humorously referred to as The Glums.

And a <languid wave> for John's Rant.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
BrritSki
2019-02-04 11:44:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over
(and smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat
trailers for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The
Glums was a very welcome exception to this.... If I were the writer
or director or one of the cast I'd be bloody furious that my audience
were being denied the opportunity to appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
...
Post by Sid Nuncius
And a <languid wave> for John's Rant.
MTAAW

Swerving to radio, I have a longish car journey on Wednesday, but not
long enough for any of the Audible books I already have - any
suggestions for good radio progs I can download please ?

TIA
Nick Odell
2019-02-04 12:58:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Sid Nuncius
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over
(and smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat
trailers for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The
Glums was a very welcome exception to this.... If I were the writer
or director or one of the cast I'd be bloody furious that my
audience were being denied the opportunity to appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
...
Post by Sid Nuncius
And a <languid wave> for John's Rant.
MTAAW
I suspect the broadcasters - especially the commercial broadcasters -
would like to do away with credits altogether and that
talking-over-whilst-whooshing-past-at-the-side-of-the-screen has been
the best that the unions etc have been able to negotiate.
Post by BrritSki
Swerving to radio, I have a longish car journey on Wednesday, but not
long enough for any of the Audible books I already have - any
suggestions for good radio progs I can download please ?
IMO the past week was particularly good for drama and readings.

Silence, Book of the Week. Omnibus 1hr15m m0002c8f

Mueller - another Jonathan Myerson contemporary drama - with Kerry Shale
(ob umra passim) 1hr m00029g9

By Grand Central Station I Sat Down And Wept (new production) 1hr30m
m00029jp

And quite a lot of good stuff from R4x last week too if that's not enough.

Nick
BrritSki
2019-02-04 15:36:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
IMO the past week was particularly good for drama and readings.
Silence, Book of the Week. Omnibus 1hr15m m0002c8f
Mueller - another Jonathan Myerson contemporary drama - with Kerry Shale
(ob umra passim) 1hr m00029g9
By Grand Central Station I Sat Down And Wept (new production) 1hr30m
m00029jp
And quite a lot of good stuff from R4x last week too if that's not enough.
Thanks Nick...

Sadly, no CAS available...
John Ashby
2019-02-04 16:02:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Nick Odell
IMO the past week was particularly good for drama and readings.
Silence, Book of the Week. Omnibus 1hr15m m0002c8f
Mueller - another Jonathan Myerson contemporary drama - with Kerry
Shale (ob umra passim) 1hr m00029g9
By Grand Central Station I Sat Down And Wept (new production) 1hr30m
m00029jp
And quite a lot of good stuff from R4x last week too if that's not enough.
Thanks Nick...
Sadly, no CAS available...
You're just trying to raise Rosie, aren't you?

john
Mike
2019-02-04 16:16:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
Post by BrritSki
Post by Nick Odell
IMO the past week was particularly good for drama and readings.
Silence, Book of the Week. Omnibus 1hr15m m0002c8f
Mueller - another Jonathan Myerson contemporary drama - with Kerry
Shale (ob umra passim) 1hr m00029g9
By Grand Central Station I Sat Down And Wept (new production) 1hr30m
m00029jp
And quite a lot of good stuff from R4x last week too if that's not enough.
Thanks Nick...
Sadly, no CAS available...
You're just trying to raise Rosie, aren't you?
john
I wonder if the idea for CAS (spit) came from the cartoon character Mr.
Magoo (sp?)?
--
Toodle Pip
Rosalind Mitchell
2019-02-04 16:23:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
You're just trying to raise Rosie, aren't you?
[FX: Loud bang, pyrotechnics, cloud of smoke]

You called? What is your command?

I think the general idea is that Rosie does the raising of the
malerats. In vain of course. Did you want to be raised?

Rosie
Penny
2019-02-04 16:26:03 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 15:36:56 +0000, BrritSki <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Nick Odell
IMO the past week was particularly good for drama and readings.
Silence, Book of the Week. Omnibus 1hr15m m0002c8f
Mueller - another Jonathan Myerson contemporary drama - with Kerry Shale
(ob umra passim) 1hr m00029g9
By Grand Central Station I Sat Down And Wept (new production) 1hr30m
m00029jp
And quite a lot of good stuff from R4x last week too if that's not enough.
Thanks Nick...
Sadly, no CAS available...
CAS?
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Rosalind Mitchell
2019-02-04 16:34:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Nick Odell
IMO the past week was particularly good for drama and readings.
Silence, Book of the Week. Omnibus 1hr15m m0002c8f
Mueller - another Jonathan Myerson contemporary drama - with Kerry Shale
(ob umra passim) 1hr m00029g9
By Grand Central Station I Sat Down And Wept (new production) 1hr30m
m00029jp
And quite a lot of good stuff from R4x last week too if that's not enough.
Thanks Nick...
Sadly, no CAS available...
CAS?
C*nt Arthur Strong I presume.
Mike
2019-02-04 16:43:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rosalind Mitchell
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Nick Odell
IMO the past week was particularly good for drama and readings.
Silence, Book of the Week. Omnibus 1hr15m m0002c8f
Mueller - another Jonathan Myerson contemporary drama - with Kerry Shale
(ob umra passim) 1hr m00029g9
By Grand Central Station I Sat Down And Wept (new production) 1hr30m
m00029jp
And quite a lot of good stuff from R4x last week too if that's not enough.
Thanks Nick...
Sadly, no CAS available...
CAS?
C*nt Arthur Strong I presume.
As in ‘Can’t Arthur Strong shoot himself?’ I suppose ;-)
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-02-04 23:17:28 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 04 Feb 2019 16:34:31 +0000, Rosalind Mitchell
Post by Rosalind Mitchell
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Nick Odell
IMO the past week was particularly good for drama and readings.
Silence, Book of the Week. Omnibus 1hr15m m0002c8f
Mueller - another Jonathan Myerson contemporary drama - with Kerry Shale
(ob umra passim) 1hr m00029g9
By Grand Central Station I Sat Down And Wept (new production) 1hr30m
m00029jp
And quite a lot of good stuff from R4x last week too if that's not enough.
Thanks Nick...
Sadly, no CAS available...
CAS?
C*nt Arthur Strong I presume.
Bleugh!
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
BrritSki
2019-02-04 16:45:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Post by Nick Odell
IMO the past week was particularly good for drama and readings.
Silence, Book of the Week. Omnibus 1hr15m m0002c8f
Mueller - another Jonathan Myerson contemporary drama - with Kerry Shale
(ob umra passim) 1hr m00029g9
By Grand Central Station I Sat Down And Wept (new production) 1hr30m
m00029jp
And quite a lot of good stuff from R4x last week too if that's not enough.
Thanks Nick...
Sadly, no CAS available...
CAS?
Cast A. Strong, strong spell....
Fenny
2019-02-04 22:55:19 UTC
Permalink
CAS?
Close Attacking Stance.
Rather than Neutral stance or TIS - Toes In Stance.
--
Fenny
Jenny M Benson
2019-02-04 19:41:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
And quite a lot of good stuff from R4x last week too if that's not enough.
One of my bestest favourites on RfX is The Small Intricate Life of
Gerald C Potter. Soooo much funnier than 90-odd% of the modern stuff.
--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/
steveski
2019-02-04 20:18:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Nick Odell
And quite a lot of good stuff from R4x last week too if that's not enough.
One of my bestest favourites on RfX is The Small Intricate Life of
Gerald C Potter. Soooo much funnier than 90-odd% of the modern stuff.
<languid wave>
--
Steveski
Dumrat
2019-02-05 09:17:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
And quite a lot of good stuff from R4x last week too if that's not enough.
One of my bestest favourites on RfX is The Small Intricate Life of Gerald C Potter.  Soooo
much funnier than 90-odd% of the modern stuff.
I love it, too, I didn't hear it when it was first broadcast, and Ian Carmichael is a
favourite of mine. Also, it somehow reminds me of my father (who was a radio journalist
who often worked at home typing two-fingered on his portable Olympia Deluxe).
--
Salaam Alaykum,
Anne, Exceptionally Traditionally-built Dumrat
krw
2019-02-04 13:00:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Swerving to radio, I have a longish car journey on Wednesday, but not
long enough for any of the Audible books I already have - any
suggestions for good radio progs I can download please ?
What do people think of Tumanbay?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Kate B
2019-02-04 15:11:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by BrritSki
Swerving to radio, I have a longish car journey on Wednesday, but not
long enough for any of the Audible books I already have - any
suggestions for good radio progs I can download please ?
What do people think of Tumanbay?
I liked it very much and am looking forward to the new series. Ace
ironing listening, like Tracks.
--
Kate B
London
Sam Plusnet
2019-02-04 21:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Swerving to radio, I have a longish car journey on Wednesday, but not
long enough for any of the Audible books I already have - any
suggestions for good radio progs I can download please ?
I cannot help with this, but swerving to one of your earlier posts...

You mentioned a new Aurelio Zen novel.
I hadn't read any of them but you jogged my memeory that I had acquired
audiobook versions of at least the first five or so in the series.
I am currently part way through the third one (Cabal).

The only Italy-based detective fiction I have read are these and Donna
Leon's Commissario Brunetti series.

Both have corruption, and the general expectation of corrupt practice,
as a basic foundation of almost everything that goes on.
Is that at all realistic?

Given that both are written by foreigners, would Italians be offended by
these books?
--
Sam Plusnet
BrritSki
2019-02-04 21:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by BrritSki
Swerving to radio, I have a longish car journey on Wednesday, but not
long enough for any of the Audible books I already have - any
suggestions for good radio progs I can download please ?
I cannot help with this, but swerving to one of your earlier posts...
You mentioned a new Aurelio Zen novel.
I hadn't read any of them but you jogged my memeory that I had acquired
audiobook versions of at least the first five or so in the series.
I am currently part way through the third one (Cabal).
The only Italy-based detective fiction I have read are these and Donna
Leon's Commissario Brunetti series.
Both have corruption, and the general expectation of corrupt practice,
as a basic foundation of almost everything that goes on.
Is that at all realistic?
Yes and no. Everyone in Italy is convinced that it happens at the higher
levels, but we had no personal experience of it. It's true that our
planning permission took a year to come through, mainly because meetings
were delayed or other stuff took priority. It's conceivable that if we'd
given someone a case of wine it might have been a bit quicker, but we
were advised that there was no need by someone who was apparently in the
know.

What is far more important is that you are connected in some way by
family or the fact that you've been there a while, are there full time,
that you speak Italian and you use local tradesmen, but that doesn't
mean that any actual money or goods change hands.
Post by Sam Plusnet
Given that both are written by foreigners, would Italians be offended by
these books?
I doubt it as they all think it happens as mentioned above. It's
interesting that Donna Leon's books are not published in Italian though.

We are starting to appreciate the differences more now that we are back.
For example we are saving a lot on income tax, but our council tax bill
is enormous compared to Italy. Same for water. Gas and electricity are
similar but a bit cheaper here. Much easier to get things done as well,
not just because of language - there's so much you can do online here
that you can't there.

We found lots of aspects of the Italian health service very good, but we
are finding that the NHS is FAR more proactive. The only think we were
offered there was a flu jab and a couple of screening tests when we
reached 65 and 70. There seem to be far more here with a shingles jab,
pneumococcal jab (I think) and I've just been called in for a medicine
review some reason. I'll find out why tomorrow - perhaps it's my
occasional (prescribed) Xanax use that worried the GP on my last visit :)

I was also told after my last gallstone attack that I needed to get my
ECG rechecked. but couldn't get an appt. in Italy for over a year
because it wasn't marked as urgent (you get a form signed by GP but have
to call a central number to see the specialist passing on all the
details rather than it being done by surgery - Italian GP had no
receptionist or any other infrastructure apart from his wife who would
reluctantly take repeat prescription requests when doc was busy), but I
was able to get 1 in days when I mentioned it to Bedford GP.

I also got a very quick appt. with a dermatologist when I said we were
free most days if there were cancellations. I was told that there would
be a follow up in 6 months and that they'd let me know when it was due.
In Italy you are in control of all this yourself and have to remember,
as well as keep all your medical records, which has some advantages, but
means that things aren't always joined up so well. Bedford GP was
surprised when I asked for actual numbers from my last blood test rather
than just accept all was OK :)

This level of organisation and proactiveness takes time and money, so
it's no wonder that the NHS budget is creaking, but it's still an
excellent service, especially if you have an accessible GP as we do.
BrritSki
2019-02-05 09:56:10 UTC
Permalink
I've just been called in for a medicine review some reason. I'll find
out why tomorrow
Sorry to reply to self, but thought I'd reassure thoserats who are
losing sleep over this :/

Removing diuretic element of my BP medicine as there have been reports
of increased skin cancer with it. Good - my BP is down and with my BHP I
don't need any further encouragement to wee.
Sam Plusnet
2019-02-05 20:29:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by BrritSki
Swerving to radio, I have a longish car journey on Wednesday, but not
long enough for any of the Audible books I already have - any
suggestions for good radio progs I can download please ?
I cannot help with this, but swerving to one of your earlier posts...
You mentioned a new Aurelio Zen novel.
I hadn't read any of them but you jogged my memeory that I had
acquired audiobook versions of at least the first five or so in the
series.
I am currently part way through the third one (Cabal).
The only Italy-based detective fiction I have read are these and Donna
Leon's Commissario Brunetti series.
Both have corruption, and the general expectation of corrupt practice,
as a basic foundation of almost everything that goes on.
Is that at all realistic?
Yes and no. Everyone in Italy is convinced that it happens at the higher
levels, but we had no personal experience of it. It's true that our
planning permission took a year to come through, mainly because meetings
were delayed or other stuff took priority. It's conceivable that if we'd
given someone a case of wine it might have been a bit quicker, but we
were advised that there was no need by someone who was apparently in the
know.
What is far more important is that you are connected in some way by
family or the fact that you've been there a while, are there full time,
that you speak Italian and you use local tradesmen, but that doesn't
mean that any actual money or goods change hands.
Post by Sam Plusnet
Given that both are written by foreigners, would Italians be offended
by these books?
I doubt it as they all think it happens as mentioned above. It's
interesting that Donna Leon's books are not published in Italian though.
Thanks for that. I imagine that an Italian audience would be much more
inclined to pick holes it the inevitable errors.
Post by BrritSki
We are starting to appreciate the differences more now that we are back.
For example we are saving a lot on income tax, but our council tax bill
is enormous compared to Italy. Same for water. Gas and electricity are
similar but a bit cheaper here. Much easier to get things done as well,
not just because of language - there's so much you can do online here
that you can't there.
We found lots of aspects of the Italian health service very good, but we
are finding that the NHS is FAR more proactive. The only think we were
offered there was a flu jab and a couple of screening tests when we
reached 65 and 70. There seem to be far more here with a shingles jab,
pneumococcal jab (I think) and I've just been called in for a medicine
review some reason. I'll find out why tomorrow - perhaps it's my
occasional (prescribed) Xanax use that worried the GP on my last visit  :)
I was also told after my last gallstone attack that I needed to get my
ECG rechecked. but couldn't get an appt. in Italy for over a year
because it wasn't marked as urgent (you get a form signed by GP but have
to call a central number to see the specialist passing on all the
details rather than it being done by surgery - Italian GP had no
receptionist or any other infrastructure apart from his wife who would
reluctantly take repeat prescription requests when doc was busy), but I
was able to get 1 in days when I mentioned it to Bedford GP.
I also got a very quick appt. with a dermatologist when I said we were
free most days if there were cancellations. I was told that there would
be a follow up in 6 months and that they'd let me know when it was due.
In Italy you are in control of all this yourself and have to remember,
as well as keep all your medical records, which has some advantages, but
means that things aren't always joined up so well. Bedford GP was
surprised when I asked for actual numbers from my last blood test rather
than just accept all was OK :)
This level of organisation and proactiveness takes time and money, so
it's no wonder that the NHS budget is creaking, but it's still an
excellent service, especially if you have an accessible GP as we do.
All things considered, I think the NHS gives us a very good deal.
--
Sam Plusnet
Sally Thompson
2019-02-05 22:01:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by BrritSki
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by BrritSki
Swerving to radio, I have a longish car journey on Wednesday, but not
long enough for any of the Audible books I already have - any
suggestions for good radio progs I can download please ?
I cannot help with this, but swerving to one of your earlier posts...
You mentioned a new Aurelio Zen novel.
I hadn't read any of them but you jogged my memeory that I had
acquired audiobook versions of at least the first five or so in the
series.
I am currently part way through the third one (Cabal).
The only Italy-based detective fiction I have read are these and Donna
Leon's Commissario Brunetti series.
Both have corruption, and the general expectation of corrupt practice,
as a basic foundation of almost everything that goes on.
Is that at all realistic?
<snip>
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by BrritSki
Post by Sam Plusnet
Given that both are written by foreigners, would Italians be offended
by these books?
I doubt it as they all think it happens as mentioned above. It's
interesting that Donna Leon's books are not published in Italian though.
Thanks for that. I imagine that an Italian audience would be much more
inclined to pick holes it the inevitable errors.
What I read in an interview is that the books are so detailed in their
geography (and Venice isn't that big) that when Brunetti walks from A to B
and stops at a bar, you can identify the exact bar, so they aren't
published in Italian to avoid such identification (and presumably the
possibility of a lawsuit). Although Donna Leon is not Italian, she lived in
Venice for very many years and taught there (much like Brunetti's wife).
--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
Vicky Ayech
2019-02-05 22:49:59 UTC
Permalink
On 5 Feb 2019 22:01:55 GMT, Sally Thompson
Post by Sally Thompson
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by BrritSki
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by BrritSki
Swerving to radio, I have a longish car journey on Wednesday, but not
long enough for any of the Audible books I already have - any
suggestions for good radio progs I can download please ?
I cannot help with this, but swerving to one of your earlier posts...
You mentioned a new Aurelio Zen novel.
I hadn't read any of them but you jogged my memeory that I had
acquired audiobook versions of at least the first five or so in the
series.
I am currently part way through the third one (Cabal).
The only Italy-based detective fiction I have read are these and Donna
Leon's Commissario Brunetti series.
Both have corruption, and the general expectation of corrupt practice,
as a basic foundation of almost everything that goes on.
Is that at all realistic?
<snip>
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by BrritSki
Post by Sam Plusnet
Given that both are written by foreigners, would Italians be offended
by these books?
I doubt it as they all think it happens as mentioned above. It's
interesting that Donna Leon's books are not published in Italian though.
Thanks for that. I imagine that an Italian audience would be much more
inclined to pick holes it the inevitable errors.
What I read in an interview is that the books are so detailed in their
geography (and Venice isn't that big) that when Brunetti walks from A to B
and stops at a bar, you can identify the exact bar, so they aren't
published in Italian to avoid such identification (and presumably the
possibility of a lawsuit). Although Donna Leon is not Italian, she lived in
Venice for very many years and taught there (much like Brunetti's wife).
They have been made for tv by a German company. I liked the programmes
very much. The actors were exactly right for the parts and the scenery
was wonderful. There are no English versions amd no subtitles but #2
daughter works for UKTV and runs Alibi and Drama channels that do lots
of detective proigrammes and she is always looking for likely new
ones. I suggested these and she said she would look into getting
English subtitles. I actually particularly liked that the ones I saw
were in German as I don't get much chance to hear German now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donna_Leon_(TV_series)
LFS
2019-02-06 11:44:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by BrritSki
Swerving to radio, I have a longish car journey on Wednesday, but not
long enough for any of the Audible books I already have - any
suggestions for good radio progs I can download please ?
I cannot help with this, but swerving to one of your earlier posts...
You mentioned a new Aurelio Zen novel.
Sorry? How could there be a new one? Michael Dibdin died some years ago.
Has someone else started writing them?

Thanks to Sid and Brittski, I'm currently enjoying the works of Mick
Herron. Not Italian but very good.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Penny
2019-02-04 16:24:32 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 10:35:40 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike Ruddock
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat
trailers for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The
Glums was a very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous
episodes ended in a situation that needed space for the viewer to
breathe, to mull over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and
make sure we don't get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm
answering my own question, this is a rant, not a forensic
investigation) that completely broke the mood. If I were the writer or
director or one of the cast I'd be bloody furious that my audience
were being denied the opportunity to appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
I know not of these Glums of which you speak (the only ones I know of
were in Take It From Here some substantial fraction of a century ago and
on the talking type radio) but I unhesitatingly support your rant. I am
surprised that Equity doesn't take a stand on the matter.
Les Misérables is sometimes humorously referred to as The Glums.
I've been enjoying that. I assume it is closer to the book than the musical
version, which I also enjoyed.

(Bonus amusement from my PVR's inability to correctly display an é and the
robotic voice of digiguide's inability to pronounce the title correctly)
Post by Sid Nuncius
And a <languid wave> for John's Rant.
From here too.

I used to rant about the speed of the credits and wondered then about the
people who were thereby disrespected. At least now I can pause the thing,
run it back if necessary, then walk to the TV and view at close quarters
frame by frame if I want to.

Maybe that's the answer to the mulling over and absorbtion problem too -
pause the programme as soon as the credits start and when ready, jump back
to 'live broadcast' and with a bit of luck you'll have missed all the
trailers etc.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2019-02-04 16:42:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 10:35:40 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike Ruddock
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat
trailers for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The
Glums was a very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous
episodes ended in a situation that needed space for the viewer to
breathe, to mull over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and
make sure we don't get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm
answering my own question, this is a rant, not a forensic
investigation) that completely broke the mood. If I were the writer or
director or one of the cast I'd be bloody furious that my audience
were being denied the opportunity to appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
I know not of these Glums of which you speak (the only ones I know of
were in Take It From Here some substantial fraction of a century ago and
on the talking type radio) but I unhesitatingly support your rant. I am
surprised that Equity doesn't take a stand on the matter.
Les Misérables is sometimes humorously referred to as The Glums.
I've been enjoying that. I assume it is closer to the book than the musical
version, which I also enjoyed.
(Bonus amusement from my PVR's inability to correctly display an é and the
robotic voice of digiguide's inability to pronounce the title correctly)
Post by Sid Nuncius
And a <languid wave> for John's Rant.
From here too.
I used to rant about the speed of the credits and wondered then about the
people who were thereby disrespected. At least now I can pause the thing,
run it back if necessary, then walk to the TV and view at close quarters
frame by frame if I want to.
Maybe that's the answer to the mulling over and absorbtion problem too -
pause the programme as soon as the credits start and when ready, jump back
to 'live broadcast' and with a bit of luck you'll have missed all the
trailers etc.
We ‘record and hold for later watching’ anything that takes our fancy; this
facilitates advert and trailer avoidance. Though i still find it annoying
that even a BBC (therefore ad-free) presentation given say a 1 hour slot is
rarely more than about 50 minutes of programme; the quantity of time given
to the ‘next time’ and ‘in this episode’ plus the almost endless intros
drive me to distraction.
--
Toodle Pip
Peter Withey
2019-02-05 10:22:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 10:35:40 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike Ruddock
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat
trailers for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The
Glums was a very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous
episodes ended in a situation that needed space for the viewer to
breathe, to mull over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and
make sure we don't get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm
answering my own question, this is a rant, not a forensic
investigation) that completely broke the mood. If I were the writer or
director or one of the cast I'd be bloody furious that my audience
were being denied the opportunity to appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
I know not of these Glums of which you speak (the only ones I know of
were in Take It From Here some substantial fraction of a century ago and
on the talking type radio) but I unhesitatingly support your rant. I am
surprised that Equity doesn't take a stand on the matter.
Les Misérables is sometimes humorously referred to as The Glums.
I've been enjoying that. I assume it is closer to the book than the musical
version, which I also enjoyed.
(Bonus amusement from my PVR's inability to correctly display an é and the
robotic voice of digiguide's inability to pronounce the title correctly)
Post by Sid Nuncius
And a <languid wave> for John's Rant.
From here too.
I used to rant about the speed of the credits and wondered then about the
people who were thereby disrespected. At least now I can pause the thing,
run it back if necessary, then walk to the TV and view at close quarters
frame by frame if I want to.
Maybe that's the answer to the mulling over and absorbtion problem too -
pause the programme as soon as the credits start and when ready, jump back
to 'live broadcast' and with a bit of luck you'll have missed all the
trailers etc.
We ‘record and hold for later watching’ anything that takes our fancy; this
facilitates advert and trailer avoidance. Though i still find it annoying
that even a BBC (therefore ad-free) presentation given say a 1 hour slot is
rarely more than about 50 minutes of programme; the quantity of time given
to the ‘next time’ and ‘in this episode’ plus the almost endless intros
drive me to distraction.
Isn't that done so that when a show is sold on to "Dave" and other
commercial channels, a 50 min show becomes 60 min with ads added.
--
Pete
Mike
2019-02-05 11:56:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Withey
Post by Penny
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019 10:35:40 +0000, Sid Nuncius
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike Ruddock
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat
trailers for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The
Glums was a very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous
episodes ended in a situation that needed space for the viewer to
breathe, to mull over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and
make sure we don't get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm
answering my own question, this is a rant, not a forensic
investigation) that completely broke the mood. If I were the writer or
director or one of the cast I'd be bloody furious that my audience
were being denied the opportunity to appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
I know not of these Glums of which you speak (the only ones I know of
were in Take It From Here some substantial fraction of a century ago and
on the talking type radio) but I unhesitatingly support your rant. I am
surprised that Equity doesn't take a stand on the matter.
Les Misérables is sometimes humorously referred to as The Glums.
I've been enjoying that. I assume it is closer to the book than the musical
version, which I also enjoyed.
(Bonus amusement from my PVR's inability to correctly display an é and the
robotic voice of digiguide's inability to pronounce the title correctly)
Post by Sid Nuncius
And a <languid wave> for John's Rant.
From here too.
I used to rant about the speed of the credits and wondered then about the
people who were thereby disrespected. At least now I can pause the thing,
run it back if necessary, then walk to the TV and view at close quarters
frame by frame if I want to.
Maybe that's the answer to the mulling over and absorbtion problem too -
pause the programme as soon as the credits start and when ready, jump back
to 'live broadcast' and with a bit of luck you'll have missed all the
trailers etc.
We ‘record and hold for later watching’ anything that takes our fancy; this
facilitates advert and trailer avoidance. Though i still find it annoying
that even a BBC (therefore ad-free) presentation given say a 1 hour slot is
rarely more than about 50 minutes of programme; the quantity of time given
to the ‘next time’ and ‘in this episode’ plus the almost endless intros
drive me to distraction.
Isn't that done so that when a show is sold on to "Dave" and other
commercial channels, a 50 min show becomes 60 min with ads added.
No,they would not be able to do that without editing out all the
‘cintinuity material’ and anyway, they would require at least 15 minutes
per hour for commercial breaks I think.
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-02-05 12:07:05 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 11:56:26 GMT, Mike <***@ntlworld.com> scrawled
in the dust...
Post by Mike
Post by Peter Withey
Isn't that done so that when a show is sold on to "Dave" and other
commercial channels, a 50 min show becomes 60 min with ads added.
No,they would not be able to do that without editing out all the
‘cintinuity material’ and anyway, they would require at least 15 minutes
per hour for commercial breaks I think.
Yep, I generally reckon 45 minutes to watch any TV prog which took an hour
to record. Some are even shorter and you can tell where the original
skipped ad breaks were.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Fenny
2019-02-04 22:59:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
I've been enjoying that. I assume it is closer to the book than the musical
version, which I also enjoyed.
Having read the book in both French [1][2] and English, I much
preferred the musical version because of That Nice (much younger then)
Mr Ball, who was in the original cast and had just spent several
months as Frederick in The Pirates of Penzance at Manchester Opera
House.

[1] FVO "read"
[2] even though it wasn't on the A level syllabus. Our French teacher
made us read stuff to avoid actually having to do any nasty teaching
related activities.
--
Fenny
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-02-04 14:09:50 UTC
Permalink
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat
trailers for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The
Glums was a very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous
episodes ended in a situation that needed space for the viewer to
breathe, to mull over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and
make sure we don't get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm
answering my own question, this is a rant, not a forensic
investigation) that completely broke the mood. If I were the writer or
director or one of the cast I'd be bloody furious that my audience were
being denied the opportunity to appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
john
I've often wondered what the legal situation with credits is: _do_ they
have to be shown in full, etcetera?

A few years ago (not _that_ many), I happened to catch an episode of
"Morse" shown in the small hours (I forget which channel), in which the
end credits - and music - were allowed to play out in full (these days,
as well as being squeezed, "Morse" ends are hacked down. The original
end credits were very long). I was almost expecting to hear the end of
the film run out of the projector and flap! Most restful.

(They do it for _opening_ sequences too - not so much talk over them,
but shorten them. The music for "Newsnight" was quite long [also I think
probably one of the last to be mastered on analogue tape]; now it's two
crashes and a bang. I wouldn't be surprised if they've hacked some of
the opening sequences to dramas, too.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Usenet is a way of being annoyed by people you otherwise never would have
met."
- John J. Kinyon
Mike
2019-02-04 15:00:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat
trailers for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The
Glums was a very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous
episodes ended in a situation that needed space for the viewer to
breathe, to mull over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and
make sure we don't get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm
answering my own question, this is a rant, not a forensic
investigation) that completely broke the mood. If I were the writer or
director or one of the cast I'd be bloody furious that my audience were
being denied the opportunity to appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
john
I've often wondered what the legal situation with credits is: _do_ they
have to be shown in full, etcetera?
A few years ago (not _that_ many), I happened to catch an episode of
"Morse" shown in the small hours (I forget which channel), in which the
end credits - and music - were allowed to play out in full (these days,
as well as being squeezed, "Morse" ends are hacked down. The original
end credits were very long). I was almost expecting to hear the end of
the film run out of the projector and flap! Most restful.
(They do it for _opening_ sequences too - not so much talk over them,
but shorten them. The music for "Newsnight" was quite long [also I think
probably one of the last to be mastered on analogue tape]; now it's two
crashes and a bang. I wouldn't be surprised if they've hacked some of
the opening sequences to dramas, too.)
There is probably an unwritten code for cases like Morse.
--
Toodle Pip
krw
2019-02-04 15:08:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
I've often wondered what the legal situation with credits is: _do_ they
have to be shown in full, etcetera?
My guess is that the industry workers have standard contracts which
ensure they get credited but the broadcaster can do what they like with
squeezing them or talking over them.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Peter Withey
2019-02-05 10:15:32 UTC
Permalink
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat trailers
for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The Glums was a
very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous episodes ended
in a situation that needed space for the viewer to breathe, to mull
over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and make sure we don't
get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm answering my own
question, this is a rant, not a forensic investigation) that completely
broke the mood. If I were the writer or director or one of the cast I'd
be bloody furious that my audience were being denied the opportunity to
appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
john
I heard at one time - no idea whether it is true or not, that it is
done to prevent the easy making of a recording of a show that hasn't
any reference to the original broadcaster. Making it harder to pirate.

ie, BBC2, programme, copyrite notice. Clip BBC2 at the start and the
copyrite notice at end and you are left with just the programme and no
easy way of determining the original broadcaster.

Much harder to do, when as John describes, they talk and show trailers
all through the credits.

But, as I say, I;ve no idea whether there is any truth in it.
--
Pete
Mike
2019-02-05 11:53:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Withey
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat trailers
for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The Glums was a
very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous episodes ended
in a situation that needed space for the viewer to breathe, to mull
over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and make sure we don't
get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm answering my own
question, this is a rant, not a forensic investigation) that completely
broke the mood. If I were the writer or director or one of the cast I'd
be bloody furious that my audience were being denied the opportunity to
appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
john
I heard at one time - no idea whether it is true or not, that it is
done to prevent the easy making of a recording of a show that hasn't
any reference to the original broadcaster. Making it harder to pirate.
ie, BBC2, programme, copyrite notice. Clip BBC2 at the start and the
copyrite notice at end and you are left with just the programme and no
easy way of determining the original broadcaster.
Much harder to do, when as John describes, they talk and show trailers
all through the credits.
But, as I say, I;ve no idea whether there is any truth in it.
I suspect there may be some form of ‘electronic watermarking’ involved -
maybe Jim E might know?
--
Toodle Pip
Jim Easterbrook
2019-02-05 12:15:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Peter Withey
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat
trailers for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The
Glums was a very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous
episodes ended in a situation that needed space for the viewer to
breathe, to mull over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and
make sure we don't get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm
answering my own question, this is a rant, not a forensic
investigation) that completely broke the mood. If I were the writer or
director or one of the cast I'd be bloody furious that my audience
were being denied the opportunity to appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
john
I heard at one time - no idea whether it is true or not, that it is
done to prevent the easy making of a recording of a show that hasn't
any reference to the original broadcaster. Making it harder to pirate.
ie, BBC2, programme, copyrite notice. Clip BBC2 at the start and the
copyrite notice at end and you are left with just the programme and no
easy way of determining the original broadcaster.
Much harder to do, when as John describes, they talk and show trailers
all through the credits.
But, as I say, I;ve no idea whether there is any truth in it.
I doubt it. I think it's more to do with the broadcaster's "marketing"
bods insisting that you have to shout the equivalent of "don't touch that
dial" at people any time they might be tempted to change channels. They
don't believe in people who watch programmes rather than channels.
Post by Mike
I suspect there may be some form of ‘electronic watermarking’ involved -
maybe Jim E might know?
Watermarking has been tried many times, but it's less practical with
digital TV. Watermarking works by adding a low level signal that the eye
(hopefully) won't be able to see. Digital bit rate reduction works by
removing low level signals that the eye (hopefully) won't notice the
absence of.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Mike
2019-02-05 13:16:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Mike
Post by Peter Withey
...do the closing credits of TV programmes have to be talked over (and
smooshed of to one side of the screen) with irritatingly upbeat
trailers for the next programme. Last night's closing episode of The
Glums was a very welcome exception to this, but each of the previous
episodes ended in a situation that needed space for the viewer to
breathe, to mull over, to discuss. Instead we got a hook to try and
make sure we don't get up and switch over or off (Yes, I'm aware I'm
answering my own question, this is a rant, not a forensic
investigation) that completely broke the mood. If I were the writer or
director or one of the cast I'd be bloody furious that my audience
were being denied the opportunity to appreciate my work fully.
Sorry, rant over.
john
I heard at one time - no idea whether it is true or not, that it is
done to prevent the easy making of a recording of a show that hasn't
any reference to the original broadcaster. Making it harder to pirate.
ie, BBC2, programme, copyrite notice. Clip BBC2 at the start and the
copyrite notice at end and you are left with just the programme and no
easy way of determining the original broadcaster.
Much harder to do, when as John describes, they talk and show trailers
all through the credits.
But, as I say, I;ve no idea whether there is any truth in it.
I doubt it. I think it's more to do with the broadcaster's "marketing"
bods insisting that you have to shout the equivalent of "don't touch that
dial" at people any time they might be tempted to change channels. They
don't believe in people who watch programmes rather than channels.
Post by Mike
I suspect there may be some form of ‘electronic watermarking’ involved -
maybe Jim E might know?
Watermarking has been tried many times, but it's less practical with
digital TV. Watermarking works by adding a low level signal that the eye
(hopefully) won't be able to see. Digital bit rate reduction works by
removing low level signals that the eye (hopefully) won't notice the
absence of.
So the superimposition of logos in one corner, are these ‘burnt in’ or just
applied at transmission - or is it imposed by my Virgin on the ridiculous
signal and cable system just before being fed to the monitor perhaps?
EMNTK!!!
--
Toodle Pip
Jim Easterbrook
2019-02-05 14:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Watermarking has been tried many times, but it's less practical with
digital TV. Watermarking works by adding a low level signal that the
eye (hopefully) won't be able to see. Digital bit rate reduction works
by removing low level signals that the eye (hopefully) won't notice the
absence of.
So the superimposition of logos in one corner, are these ‘burnt in’ or
just applied at transmission - or is it imposed by my Virgin on the
ridiculous signal and cable system just before being fed to the monitor
perhaps?
EMNTK!!!
The channel logos are put on in the playout suite, but I suppose Virgin
could add some more.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Mike
2019-02-05 15:20:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Mike
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Watermarking has been tried many times, but it's less practical with
digital TV. Watermarking works by adding a low level signal that the
eye (hopefully) won't be able to see. Digital bit rate reduction works
by removing low level signals that the eye (hopefully) won't notice the
absence of.
So the superimposition of logos in one corner, are these ‘burnt in’ or
just applied at transmission - or is it imposed by my Virgin on the
ridiculous signal and cable system just before being fed to the monitor
perhaps?
EMNTK!!!
The channel logos are put on in the playout suite, but I suppose Virgin
could add some more.
Thank you Jim, commercial stations are fond of adding extra (animated)
‘flashes’ about the following programme towards the end of a programme and
they are obviously added in the playout suite as they are ethemeral only.
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-02-05 22:31:19 UTC
Permalink
On 5 Feb 2019 12:15:05 GMT, Jim Easterbrook <***@jim-easterbrook.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by Jim Easterbrook
They
don't believe in people who watch programmes rather than channels.
I really wish they'd learn how wrong they are. I'm fed up with doing
surveys which assume I watch Channel A rather than Channel B when I don't
give a damn (and rarely remember) what channel a programme is on.

While I'm ranting, I also think it's high time the channels grew up and
stopped deliberately competing over time slots with Drama vs Drama, silly
'reality' show vs silly 'reality' show, soap vs soap. It leaves the
audience recording the progs they want to see and watching them when the
progs they don't want to see are on every channel. One day the advertisers
might figure this out too and put some pressure on for more sensible
programming, but I won't hold my breath.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Jim Easterbrook
2019-02-05 22:47:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
They don't believe in people who watch programmes rather than channels.
I really wish they'd learn how wrong they are. I'm fed up with doing
surveys which assume I watch Channel A rather than Channel B when I
don't give a damn (and rarely remember) what channel a programme is on.
While I'm ranting, I also think it's high time the channels grew up and
stopped deliberately competing over time slots with Drama vs Drama,
silly 'reality' show vs silly 'reality' show, soap vs soap. It leaves
the audience recording the progs they want to see and watching them when
the progs they don't want to see are on every channel. One day the
advertisers might figure this out too and put some pressure on for more
sensible programming, but I won't hold my breath.
Since mastering my PVR I've stopped watching live TV. Everything I watch
is recorded, I've set up searches to record a wide variety of programmes
I might enjoy (e.g. search terms such as "Worsley", "Januszack" (sp?),
"Khalili") so if the EPG data is at all useful I know I'll have stuff of
interest. If it's not of interest it gets deleted and I move on. There's
always something to watch.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0
Chris J Dixon
2019-02-06 08:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Post by Penny
While I'm ranting, I also think it's high time the channels grew up and
stopped deliberately competing over time slots with Drama vs Drama,
silly 'reality' show vs silly 'reality' show, soap vs soap. It leaves
the audience recording the progs they want to see and watching them when
the progs they don't want to see are on every channel. One day the
advertisers might figure this out too and put some pressure on for more
sensible programming, but I won't hold my breath.
Since mastering my PVR I've stopped watching live TV. Everything I watch
is recorded, I've set up searches to record a wide variety of programmes
I might enjoy (e.g. search terms such as "Worsley", "Januszack" (sp?),
"Khalili") so if the EPG data is at all useful I know I'll have stuff of
interest. If it's not of interest it gets deleted and I move on. There's
always something to watch.
Indeed so.

Regarding adverts, the numbers actually watching them must be
decreasing steadily, so the broadcasters will have to drop their
rates and lose income. The time of broadcast becomes increasingly
irrelevant.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
Jenny M Benson
2019-02-06 10:19:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Since mastering my PVR I've stopped watching live TV. Everything I watch
is recorded, I've set up searches to record a wide variety of programmes
I might enjoy (e.g. search terms such as "Worsley", "Januszack" (sp?),
"Khalili") so if the EPG data is at all useful I know I'll have stuff of
interest. If it's not of interest it gets deleted and I move on. There's
always something to watch.
Bound to be because there's hardly a day goes by when Lucy Worsley isn't
on tv doing anything other than her "proper job." How they heck they
can keep introducing her as "whatsit of the Royal palaces" or whatever
it is, I don't know, because she can't ever have time to spare in
between making all her tv progs.
--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/
SODAM
2019-02-07 08:09:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Since mastering my PVR I've stopped watching live TV. Everything I watch
is recorded, I've set up searches to record a wide variety of programmes
I might enjoy (e.g. search terms such as "Worsley", "Januszack" (sp?),
"Khalili") so if the EPG data is at all useful I know I'll have stuff of
interest. If it's not of interest it gets deleted and I move on. There's
always something to watch.
Bound to be because there's hardly a day goes by when Lucy Worsley isn't
on tv doing anything other than her "proper job." How they heck they
can keep introducing her as "whatsit of the Royal palaces" or whatever
it is, I don't know, because she can't ever have time to spare in
between making all her tv progs.
I can’t be bothered to watch Lucy Worsley any more. Any programme she is
in now becomes increasingly less about history and
more about Lucy dressing up and simpering in a costume of the period. Bah !
Humbug.
--
SODAM
The thinking umrat’s choice for editor
Mike Ruddock
2019-02-07 08:29:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by SODAM
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Jim Easterbrook
Since mastering my PVR I've stopped watching live TV. Everything I watch
is recorded, I've set up searches to record a wide variety of programmes
I might enjoy (e.g. search terms such as "Worsley", "Januszack" (sp?),
"Khalili") so if the EPG data is at all useful I know I'll have stuff of
interest. If it's not of interest it gets deleted and I move on. There's
always something to watch.
Bound to be because there's hardly a day goes by when Lucy Worsley isn't
on tv doing anything other than her "proper job." How they heck they
can keep introducing her as "whatsit of the Royal palaces" or whatever
it is, I don't know, because she can't ever have time to spare in
between making all her tv progs.
I can’t be bothered to watch Lucy Worsley any more. Any programme she is
in now becomes increasingly less about history and
more about Lucy dressing up and simpering in a costume of the period. Bah !
Humbug.
Languid (no, dammit, vigorous) wave.

Mike Ruddock
Mike
2019-02-06 08:56:31 UTC
Permalink
Penny <***@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
ink it's high time the channels grew up and
Post by Penny
stopped deliberately competing over time slots with Drama vs Drama, silly
'reality' show vs silly 'reality' show, soap vs soap. It leaves the
audience recording the progs they want to see and watching them when the
progs they don't want to see are on every channel. One day the advertisers
might figure this out too and put some pressure on for more sensible
programming, but I won't hold my breath.
I have developed quite a knack with my commercial break zapping finger;
majority of commercial network progs we watch have 4 minute breaks, others
we have sussed have 5-6 minutes breaks. The zapper has 8 or sometimes 10
presses and if still playing very silly messages - then 2 more! I have
never felt any compulsion to watch any of the silly and tedious messages
displayed ‘for your enjoyment and amusement’.
--
Toodle Pip
Chris J Dixon
2019-02-06 09:14:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
I have developed quite a knack with my commercial break zapping finger;
majority of commercial network progs we watch have 4 minute breaks, others
we have sussed have 5-6 minutes breaks. The zapper has 8 or sometimes 10
presses and if still playing very silly messages - then 2 more! I have
never felt any compulsion to watch any of the silly and tedious messages
displayed ‘for your enjoyment and amusement’.
Quite!

My finger reflex upon hearing "coming up..." or "next..." is
pretty well developed.

So effective is my avoidance of advertising that occasionally
comedic references to such matters go right over my head.

I do a number of surveys, and they often ask about adverts - I
seldom have been aware of any of them, even stuff from Radio
Times has been completely blanked from my memory, if I even
registered them in the first place.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
***@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.
Jenny M Benson
2019-02-06 10:27:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
So effective is my avoidance of advertising that occasionally
comedic references to such matters go right over my head.
Many moons ago, someone, I think it might have been Victoria Wood, made
a comedic reference to removing the fluff from a tumble drier. I had
absolutely no idea what she was on about and felt quite left out. I
remember this years later when I acquired my first tumble drier (1).

Now it's Ikea references which go completely over my head.

(1) It died when about 30 years old and was recently replaced with a
second-hand condenser drier. Every time I use it I marvel over the
amount of water it collects and am also eager for the next hot spell so
I can use it to water the plants!
--
Jenny M Benson
http://jennygenes.blogspot.co.uk/
LFS
2019-02-06 11:51:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Post by Chris J Dixon
So effective is my avoidance of advertising that occasionally
comedic references to such matters go right over my head.
Many moons ago, someone, I think it might have been Victoria Wood, made
a comedic reference to  removing the fluff from a tumble drier.  I had
absolutely no idea what she was on about and felt quite left out.  I
remember this years later when I acquired my first tumble drier (1).
Now it's Ikea references which go completely over my head.
(1) It died when about 30 years old and was recently replaced with a
second-hand condenser drier.  Every time I use it I marvel over the
amount of water it collects and am also eager for the next hot spell so
I can use it to water the plants!
Snap. It seems that condenser driers also generate far less fluff for
some reason.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
krw
2019-02-06 11:59:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jenny M Benson
Now it's Ikea references which go completely over my head.
What is an Ikea and do I need one?
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
Mike
2019-02-06 16:14:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by krw
Post by Jenny M Benson
Now it's Ikea references which go completely over my head.
What is an Ikea and do I need one?
If you do, you may also need a screwdriver, a hammer, a mallet, some
woodworking adhesive, gaffer tape, duct tape, duck tape, insulating tape, a
try-square, paint brushes and a stilson wrench....
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Odell
2019-02-06 16:45:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by Jenny M Benson
Now it's Ikea references which go completely over my head.
What is an Ikea and do I need one?
If you do, you may also need a screwdriver, a hammer, a mallet, some
woodworking adhesive, gaffer tape, duct tape, duck tape, insulating tape, a
try-square, paint brushes and a stilson wrench....
Far too much stuff there, Mike. Two simple rules:
1}If it is supposed to move - WD40
2)If it is not supposed to move - gaffer tape

There you are, done. Sorted.

Nick
Mike
2019-02-06 17:17:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by Jenny M Benson
Now it's Ikea references which go completely over my head.
What is an Ikea and do I need one?
If you do, you may also need a screwdriver, a hammer, a mallet, some
woodworking adhesive, gaffer tape, duct tape, duck tape, insulating tape, a
try-square, paint brushes and a stilson wrench....
1}If it is supposed to move - WD40
2)If it is not supposed to move - gaffer tape
There you are, done. Sorted.
Nick
:-)))
--
Toodle Pip
steveski
2019-02-06 17:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by Jenny M Benson
Now it's Ikea references which go completely over my head.
What is an Ikea and do I need one?
If you do, you may also need a screwdriver, a hammer, a mallet, some
woodworking adhesive, gaffer tape, duct tape, duck tape, insulating
tape, a try-square, paint brushes and a stilson wrench....
And a 3/8" Gripley.
--
Steveski
Mike
2019-02-06 17:19:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by steveski
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by Jenny M Benson
Now it's Ikea references which go completely over my head.
What is an Ikea and do I need one?
If you do, you may also need a screwdriver, a hammer, a mallet, some
woodworking adhesive, gaffer tape, duct tape, duck tape, insulating
tape, a try-square, paint brushes and a stilson wrench....
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
--
Toodle Pip
Sid Nuncius
2019-02-09 10:31:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by steveski
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
NO. IT WOULD NOT.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Mike
2019-02-09 10:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Post by steveski
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
NO. IT WOULD NOT.
That’ll be a no I suppose then?
--
Toodle Pip
Mike
2019-02-09 10:52:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Post by steveski
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
NO. IT WOULD NOT.
That’ll be a no I suppose then?
Mine Dew, if you attend the ‘Twinstitute’, you may be given the opportunity
to learn to speak Swedish.;-) no mention was made of reading instructions
written in Swedish though.
--
Toodle Pip
BrritSki
2019-02-09 11:17:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Post by steveski
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
NO. IT WOULD NOT.
That’ll be a no I suppose then?
Mine Dew, if you attend the ‘Twinstitute’, you may be given the opportunity
to learn to speak Swedish.;-) no mention was made of reading instructions
written in Swedish though.
Just to pick up on my earlier rantette, THERE ARE NO WRITTEN
INSTRUCTIONS !
They are all little pictures. Must save them millions in printing and
paper costs...
Mike
2019-02-09 11:52:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Mike
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Post by steveski
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
NO. IT WOULD NOT.
That’ll be a no I suppose then?
Mine Dew, if you attend the ‘Twinstitute’, you may be given the opportunity
to learn to speak Swedish.;-) no mention was made of reading instructions
written in Swedish though.
Just to pick up on my earlier rantette, THERE ARE NO WRITTEN
INSTRUCTIONS !
They are all little pictures. Must save them millions in printing and
paper costs...
Ah but, the drawings need to be printed in all the different languages,
don’t they?;-)))
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-02-09 14:21:06 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 11:17:57 +0000, BrritSki <***@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Just to pick up on my earlier rantette, THERE ARE NO WRITTEN
INSTRUCTIONS !
They are all little pictures. Must save them millions in printing and
paper costs...
IME it doesn't matter if instructions (for anything) are in words and/or
pictures, a huge percentage of people won't even look at them, let alone
ensure they understand them, before they start :(
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
Mike
2019-02-09 14:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Just to pick up on my earlier rantette, THERE ARE NO WRITTEN
INSTRUCTIONS !
They are all little pictures. Must save them millions in printing and
paper costs...
IME it doesn't matter if instructions (for anything) are in words and/or
pictures, a huge percentage of people won't even look at them, let alone
ensure they understand them, before they start :(
Illustrations for any product may be universal but, when done poorly just
put everyone at a similar disadvantage no matter what language(s) they
speak. I am thinking of poorly reproduced instruction sheets, badly
photocopied, microscopic details that hardly provide any detail, even when
enlarged, parts that don’t line up with the numbers/letters or are so
lacking in detail that you really have to assemble the item before the
instructions make any sense. Some items even .... Cont. on P94.
--
Toodle Pip
BrritSki
2019-02-10 08:53:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Just to pick up on my earlier rantette, THERE ARE NO WRITTEN
INSTRUCTIONS !
They are all little pictures. Must save them millions in printing and
paper costs...
IME it doesn't matter if instructions (for anything) are in words and/or
pictures, a huge percentage of people won't even look at them, let alone
ensure they understand them, before they start :(
Agreed, but that's their problem.

It's very odd that Brits seem to take pride in their ineptitude and
ignorance. There were at least 2 examples in TNQ yesterday - someone who
obviously knew nothing about Dante's Circles of Hell [1] and something
else that I forget now, and I see this all the time.

[1] and nobody cracked the best joke about that which was Yanis
Varoufakis' reply to Tusk: "Probably very similar to the place reserved
for those who designed a monetary union without a proper banking union
and, once the banking crisis hit, transferred cynically the bankers'
gigantic losses onto the shoulders of the weakest taxpayers". It's not
really funny, but it is true.

PS If the BBC had shown their Inside Europe - 10 years of turmoil
series during the referendum campaign there'd have been a lot more Leave
votes. Arrogant, incompetent c*nts all of them, our politicians too.
J. P. Gilliver (John)
2019-02-10 10:29:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Just to pick up on my earlier rantette, THERE ARE NO WRITTEN
INSTRUCTIONS !
(By the time I saw this, it was above - so whatever it was about, I
didn't know!)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
Post by BrritSki
They are all little pictures. Must save them millions in printing and
paper costs...
(If it was Ikea furniture, I've generally found their pictures quite
understandable. I _like_ pictures: I could only wish planning
applications [such as changes to parking restrictions] taped to
lampposts had maps _rather than_ words.)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
IME it doesn't matter if instructions (for anything) are in words and/or
pictures, a huge percentage of people won't even look at them, let alone
ensure they understand them, before they start :(
Agreed, but that's their problem.
It's very odd that Brits seem to take pride in their ineptitude and
ignorance. There were at least 2 examples in TNQ yesterday - someone
who obviously knew nothing about Dante's Circles of Hell [1] and
something else that I forget now, and I see this all the time.
It's class/discipline snobbery. People (_some_ people) are not only
ignorant about some things, but actually _proud_ of that ignorance. I
see it mainly from the science/technology side - people who are _proud_
they have a poor grasp of maths or how things work - but it does apply
the other way round too. I know I don't know a lot about various
literature, music, art, and similar areas - but I _hope_ I'm not _proud_
of my ignorance. (I will admit sometimes to not having much or sometimes
any _desire_ to learn more, but at least I don't feel _proud_ of it - I
hope.)

There's also some element of implied superiority: one has servants to
know about such things - a gentleman doesn't need to know how his
horseless carriage works, but should know something of art and music.
Yes, I'm sure similar snobbery _does_ exist on the science/engineering
side, but I _think_ less so.

It's the same mindset that makes (some, again) people proud they don't
speak other languages. (That _is_ fortunately in decline now, though
hangs on in the boorish use of [mispronounced] phrases, such as "zwy
beer bitter".)
Post by BrritSki
[1] and nobody cracked the best joke about that which was Yanis
Varoufakis' reply to Tusk: "Probably very similar to the place reserved
for those who designed a monetary union without a proper banking union
and, once the banking crisis hit, transferred cynically the bankers'
gigantic losses onto the shoulders of the weakest taxpayers". It's not
really funny, but it is true.
Just a bit long. Maybe if it was stopped before the and.
Post by BrritSki
PS If the BBC had shown their Inside Europe - 10 years of turmoil
series during the referendum campaign there'd have been a lot more
Leave votes. Arrogant, incompetent c*nts all of them, our politicians
too.
Hmm, not sure about that; I think most both leavers and remainers were
more committed to their view than many give them credit for: I think
both sides, the core anyway, had a fairly fundamental commitment, almost
like a religious one, to the way they thought: leavers like me (and I'm
guessing you!) felt we really had to get out while we still could, from
a system that seemed increasingly grasping, and remainers believed in
the fundamental principle/idea of the union. I don't think _any_
argument would have swayed the core of both sides, though the periphery
could be swayed.

(I also get cross when politicians - and others, but it's mainly
politicians - say something like "the people voted, so we're going to
deliver that". Sure, the people voted, but only 52% of them - and only
of the ones who voted. That went the way I wanted, but I still find such
statements must intensely irritate the remainers. It is almost - though
not quite - as irritating as the second-referendum campaigners [who I
assume are mostly remainers, though see my STV point] calling it a
"people's vote", as if the first one wasn't.)

OK, my contribution to grumble-sesh over (-:

@jpeg22433085
-------------


How about a three-way referendum with second choices being taken into account?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)***@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

When you are in it up to your ears, keep your mouth shut.
Nick Odell
2019-02-10 13:07:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Just to pick up on my earlier rantette, THERE ARE NO WRITTEN
INSTRUCTIONS !
(By the time I saw this, it was above - so whatever it was about, I
didn't know!)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
Post by BrritSki
They are all little pictures. Must save them millions in printing and
paper costs...
(If it was Ikea furniture, I've generally found their pictures quite
understandable. I _like_ pictures: I could only wish planning
applications [such as changes to parking restrictions] taped to
lampposts had maps _rather than_ words.)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
 IME it doesn't matter if instructions (for anything) are in words
and/or
pictures, a huge percentage of people won't even look at them, let alone
ensure they understand them, before they start :(
Agreed, but that's their problem.
It's very odd that Brits seem to take pride in their ineptitude and
ignorance. There were at least 2 examples in TNQ yesterday - someone
who obviously knew nothing about Dante's Circles of Hell [1] and
something else that I forget now, and I see this all the time.
It's class/discipline snobbery. People (_some_ people) are not only
ignorant about some things, but actually _proud_ of that ignorance. I
see it mainly from the science/technology side - people who are _proud_
they have a poor grasp of maths or how things work - but it does apply
the other way round too. I know I don't know a lot about various
literature, music, art, and similar areas - but I _hope_ I'm not _proud_
of my ignorance. (I will admit sometimes to not having much or sometimes
any _desire_ to learn more, but at least I don't feel _proud_ of it - I
hope.)
There's also some element of implied superiority: one has servants to
know about such things - a gentleman doesn't need to know how his
horseless carriage works, but should know something of art and music.
Yes, I'm sure similar snobbery _does_ exist on the science/engineering
side, but I _think_ less so.
It's the same mindset that makes (some, again) people proud they don't
speak other languages. (That _is_ fortunately in decline now, though
hangs on in the boorish use of [mispronounced] phrases, such as "zwy
beer bitter".)
Post by BrritSki
[1] and nobody cracked the best joke about that which was Yanis
Varoufakis' reply to Tusk: "Probably very similar to the place
reserved for those who designed a monetary union without a proper
banking union and, once the banking crisis hit, transferred cynically
the bankers' gigantic losses onto the shoulders of the weakest
taxpayers". It's not really funny, but it is true.
Just a bit long. Maybe if it was stopped before the and.
Post by BrritSki
PS  If the BBC had shown their Inside Europe - 10 years of turmoil
series during the referendum campaign there'd have been a lot more
Leave votes. Arrogant, incompetent c*nts all of them, our politicians
too.
Hmm, not sure about that; I think most both leavers and remainers were
more committed to their view than many give them credit for: I think
both sides, the core anyway, had a fairly fundamental commitment, almost
like a religious one, to the way they thought: leavers like me (and I'm
guessing you!) felt we really had to get out while we still could, from
a system that seemed increasingly grasping, and remainers believed in
the fundamental principle/idea of the union. I don't think _any_
argument would have swayed the core of both sides, though the periphery
could be swayed.
(I also get cross when politicians - and others, but it's mainly
politicians - say something like "the people voted, so we're going to
deliver that". Sure, the people voted, but only 52% of them - and only
of the ones who voted. That went the way I wanted, but I still find such
statements must intensely irritate the remainers. It is almost - though
not quite - as irritating as the second-referendum campaigners [who I
assume are mostly remainers, though see my STV point] calling it a
"people's vote", as if the first one wasn't.)
@jpeg22433085
-------------
How about a three-way referendum with second choices being taken into account?
I was thinking about you in the shower this morning. Oops! That didn't
come out right - let's hope Brritski isn't about ATM. Let's start again.

While I was in the shower I was thinking about your petition then later,
I saw this most recent post of yours which is something of a
mini-manifesto which, added to some of the things you've said in the
past, could be combined into a full-blown one.

I'm just wondering whether it wouldn't be easier to get elected to
Parliament, as an independent, perhaps and use a Private Members Bill to
change the way petitions work than to get 100,000 signatures on a
petition that - if other noble causes that have gone the same way are
anything to go by - will get a mention and then get an Ariana Grande[1]
and very little else.

To get elected to Parliament, depending on how the constituency is
split, you might only need to persuade about 10,000 people to vote for
you. When you present your Private Members Bill you'll only need the
votes of about 300 or so to get it into law. Job's a good 'un.

And if you change your name to Nigel Barton there's a ready-made
campaign slogan just waiting for you.

Nick
[1]Thank-u Next
John Ashby
2019-02-10 13:15:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 11:17:57 +0000, BrritSki
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Just to pick up on my earlier rantette, THERE ARE NO WRITTEN
INSTRUCTIONS !
(By the time I saw this, it was above - so whatever it was about, I
didn't know!)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
Post by BrritSki
They are all little pictures. Must save them millions in printing and
paper costs...
(If it was Ikea furniture, I've generally found their pictures quite
understandable. I _like_ pictures: I could only wish planning
applications [such as changes to parking restrictions] taped to
lampposts had maps _rather than_ words.)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
 IME it doesn't matter if instructions (for anything) are in words
and/or
pictures, a huge percentage of people won't even look at them, let alone
ensure they understand them, before they start :(
Agreed, but that's their problem.
It's very odd that Brits seem to take pride in their ineptitude and
ignorance. There were at least 2 examples in TNQ yesterday - someone
who obviously knew nothing about Dante's Circles of Hell [1] and
something else that I forget now, and I see this all the time.
It's class/discipline snobbery. People (_some_ people) are not only
ignorant about some things, but actually _proud_ of that ignorance. I
see it mainly from the science/technology side - people who are
_proud_ they have a poor grasp of maths or how things work - but it
does apply the other way round too. I know I don't know a lot about
various literature, music, art, and similar areas - but I _hope_ I'm
not _proud_ of my ignorance. (I will admit sometimes to not having
much or sometimes any _desire_ to learn more, but at least I don't
feel _proud_ of it - I hope.)
There's also some element of implied superiority: one has servants to
know about such things - a gentleman doesn't need to know how his
horseless carriage works, but should know something of art and music.
Yes, I'm sure similar snobbery _does_ exist on the science/engineering
side, but I _think_ less so.
It's the same mindset that makes (some, again) people proud they don't
speak other languages. (That _is_ fortunately in decline now, though
hangs on in the boorish use of [mispronounced] phrases, such as "zwy
beer bitter".)
Post by BrritSki
[1] and nobody cracked the best joke about that which was Yanis
Varoufakis' reply to Tusk: "Probably very similar to the place
reserved for those who designed a monetary union without a proper
banking union and, once the banking crisis hit, transferred cynically
the bankers' gigantic losses onto the shoulders of the weakest
taxpayers". It's not really funny, but it is true.
Just a bit long. Maybe if it was stopped before the and.
Post by BrritSki
PS  If the BBC had shown their Inside Europe - 10 years of turmoil
series during the referendum campaign there'd have been a lot more
Leave votes. Arrogant, incompetent c*nts all of them, our politicians
too.
Hmm, not sure about that; I think most both leavers and remainers were
more committed to their view than many give them credit for: I think
both sides, the core anyway, had a fairly fundamental commitment,
almost like a religious one, to the way they thought: leavers like me
(and I'm guessing you!) felt we really had to get out while we still
could, from a system that seemed increasingly grasping, and remainers
believed in the fundamental principle/idea of the union. I don't think
_any_ argument would have swayed the core of both sides, though the
periphery could be swayed.
(I also get cross when politicians - and others, but it's mainly
politicians - say something like "the people voted, so we're going to
deliver that". Sure, the people voted, but only 52% of them - and only
of the ones who voted. That went the way I wanted, but I still find
such statements must intensely irritate the remainers. It is almost -
though not quite - as irritating as the second-referendum campaigners
[who I assume are mostly remainers, though see my STV point] calling
it a "people's vote", as if the first one wasn't.)
@jpeg22433085
-------------
How about a three-way referendum with second choices being taken into account?
I was thinking about you in the shower this morning. Oops! That didn't
come out right - let's hope Brritski isn't about ATM. Let's start again.
While I was in the shower I was thinking about your petition then later,
I saw this most recent post of yours which is something of a
mini-manifesto which, added to some of the things you've said in the
past, could be combined into a full-blown one.
I'm just wondering whether it wouldn't be easier to get elected to
Parliament, as an independent, perhaps and use a Private Members Bill to
change the way petitions work than to get 100,000 signatures on a
petition that - if other noble causes that have gone the same way are
anything to go by - will get a mention and then get an Ariana Grande[1]
and very little else.
To get elected to Parliament, depending on how the constituency is
split, you might only need to persuade about 10,000 people to vote for
you. When you present your Private Members Bill you'll only need the
votes of about 300 or so to get it into law.
And to get someone to invite Christopher Chope out to lunch.

Though some might say he's there already.

john
BrritSki
2019-02-10 17:42:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Ashby
And to get someone to invite Christopher Chope out to lunch.
In his defence, his objection is not so much to the particular Bill [1]
but to the process where it's passed with no debate.

FMG is a disgrace, but it should be dealt with properly as part of Gov't
Business rather that a private Member's Bill aiui it now will be.

[1] Although I've read that he doesn't object to his cronies' bills
which would destroy my argument if true.
John Ashby
2019-02-10 18:42:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by John Ashby
And to get someone to invite Christopher Chope out to lunch.
In his defence, his objection is not so much to the particular Bill [1]
but to the process where it's passed with no debate.
FMG is a disgrace, but it should be dealt with properly as part of Gov't
Business rather that a private Member's Bill aiui it now will be.
[1] Although I've read that he doesn't object to his cronies' bills
which would destroy my argument if true.
Yes, and in any case, second reading is a motion to pass the bill onto a
stage where it *can* be properly scrutinised and debated.

john
BrritSki
2019-02-10 17:40:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
PS  If the BBC had shown their Inside Europe - 10 years of turmoil
series during the referendum campaign there'd have been a lot more
Leave votes. Arrogant, incompetent c*nts all of them, our politicians
too.
Hmm, not sure about that; I think most both leavers and remainers were
more committed to their view than many give them credit for: I think
both sides, the core anyway, had a fairly fundamental commitment, almost
like a religious one, to the way they thought: leavers like me (and I'm
guessing you!) felt we really had to get out while we still could, from
a system that seemed increasingly grasping, and remainers believed in
the fundamental principle/idea of the union. I don't think _any_
argument would have swayed the core of both sides, though the periphery
could be swayed.
I disagree. There were certainly elements at both ends of the spectrum
who were very committed, but I think there was a huge number in the
middle who were not really sure either way. Not a bell-curve perhaps,
but not far off.

A lot of those waverers would have been convinced by Project Fear, but
they wouldn't be in a second referendum, and that is one reason I think
that the People's Vote supporters should be very careful in what they
wish for. I also think that some Remainers would change their minds
because of the way the establishment have reacted and their objection to
the British sense of fair play. Yes, there will certainly be some
Bregretters, but as many IMO.

PS Thomas Aquinas was the other person they were mystified about on TNQ.
Nick Odell
2019-02-18 15:06:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Odell
Post by J. P. Gilliver (John)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
On Sat, 9 Feb 2019 11:17:57 +0000, BrritSki
scrawled in the dust...
Post by BrritSki
Just to pick up on my earlier rantette, THERE ARE NO WRITTEN
INSTRUCTIONS !
(By the time I saw this, it was above - so whatever it was about, I
didn't know!)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
Post by BrritSki
They are all little pictures. Must save them millions in printing and
paper costs...
(If it was Ikea furniture, I've generally found their pictures quite
understandable. I _like_ pictures: I could only wish planning
applications [such as changes to parking restrictions] taped to
lampposts had maps _rather than_ words.)
Post by BrritSki
Post by Penny
 IME it doesn't matter if instructions (for anything) are in words
and/or
pictures, a huge percentage of people won't even look at them, let alone
ensure they understand them, before they start :(
Agreed, but that's their problem.
It's very odd that Brits seem to take pride in their ineptitude and
ignorance. There were at least 2 examples in TNQ yesterday - someone
who obviously knew nothing about Dante's Circles of Hell [1] and
something else that I forget now, and I see this all the time.
It's class/discipline snobbery. People (_some_ people) are not only
ignorant about some things, but actually _proud_ of that ignorance. I
see it mainly from the science/technology side - people who are
_proud_ they have a poor grasp of maths or how things work - but it
does apply the other way round too. I know I don't know a lot about
various literature, music, art, and similar areas - but I _hope_ I'm
not _proud_ of my ignorance. (I will admit sometimes to not having
much or sometimes any _desire_ to learn more, but at least I don't
feel _proud_ of it - I hope.)
There's also some element of implied superiority: one has servants to
know about such things - a gentleman doesn't need to know how his
horseless carriage works, but should know something of art and music.
Yes, I'm sure similar snobbery _does_ exist on the science/engineering
side, but I _think_ less so.
It's the same mindset that makes (some, again) people proud they don't
speak other languages. (That _is_ fortunately in decline now, though
hangs on in the boorish use of [mispronounced] phrases, such as "zwy
beer bitter".)
Post by BrritSki
[1] and nobody cracked the best joke about that which was Yanis
Varoufakis' reply to Tusk: "Probably very similar to the place
reserved for those who designed a monetary union without a proper
banking union and, once the banking crisis hit, transferred cynically
the bankers' gigantic losses onto the shoulders of the weakest
taxpayers". It's not really funny, but it is true.
Just a bit long. Maybe if it was stopped before the and.
Post by BrritSki
PS  If the BBC had shown their Inside Europe - 10 years of turmoil
series during the referendum campaign there'd have been a lot more
Leave votes. Arrogant, incompetent c*nts all of them, our politicians
too.
Hmm, not sure about that; I think most both leavers and remainers were
more committed to their view than many give them credit for: I think
both sides, the core anyway, had a fairly fundamental commitment,
almost like a religious one, to the way they thought: leavers like me
(and I'm guessing you!) felt we really had to get out while we still
could, from a system that seemed increasingly grasping, and remainers
believed in the fundamental principle/idea of the union. I don't think
_any_ argument would have swayed the core of both sides, though the
periphery could be swayed.
(I also get cross when politicians - and others, but it's mainly
politicians - say something like "the people voted, so we're going to
deliver that". Sure, the people voted, but only 52% of them - and only
of the ones who voted. That went the way I wanted, but I still find
such statements must intensely irritate the remainers. It is almost -
though not quite - as irritating as the second-referendum campaigners
[who I assume are mostly remainers, though see my STV point] calling
it a "people's vote", as if the first one wasn't.)
@jpeg22433085
-------------
How about a three-way referendum with second choices being taken into account?
I was thinking about you in the shower this morning. Oops! That didn't
come out right - let's hope Brritski isn't about ATM. Let's start again.
While I was in the shower I was thinking about your petition then later,
I saw this most recent post of yours which is something of a
mini-manifesto which, added to some of the things you've said in the
past, could be combined into a full-blown one.
I'm just wondering whether it wouldn't be easier to get elected to
Parliament, as an independent, perhaps and use a Private Members Bill to
change the way petitions work than to get 100,000 signatures on a
petition that - if other noble causes that have gone the same way are
anything to go by - will get a mention and then get an Ariana Grande[1]
and very little else.
To get elected to Parliament, depending on how the constituency is
split, you might only need to persuade about 10,000 people to vote for
you. When you present your Private Members Bill you'll only need the
votes of about 300 or so to get it into law. Job's a good 'un.
And if you change your name to Nigel Barton there's a ready-made
campaign slogan just waiting for you.
Nick
[1]Thank-u Next
Erme - just to clarify my use of "independent" up there.

When I say independent I don't mean Independent and whilst you could
feel a bit lonely as an independent you will probably find other
independents who sort-of group together as an independent group but act
independently unlike the Independent Group who seem to be acting as a
group, not as independents.

There. That's better, isn't it?

Nick

Sid Nuncius
2019-02-10 11:20:31 UTC
Permalink
PS  If the BBC had shown their Inside Europe - 10 years of turmoil
series during the referendum campaign there'd have been a lot more Leave
votes. Arrogant, incompetent c*nts all of them, our politicians too.
Not quite the lot of them, IMO. I wouldn't argue in the case of people
like Sarkozy, Juncker and several others, but I think Tusk comes quite
well out of the two programmes so far. He seems reasonably pragmatic
and sensitive to the conflicting views of all those involved. (I don't
defend his hell remark, although I think what is behind it is true, just
like your quote from Varoufakis.) I think the programmes have been very
good, BTW.

That arrogance is one of quite a lot of things about the EU that I won't
be sorry to see the back of, but I still think, on balance, we'd have
been better off staying in and trying to deal with it. I'm hoping I am
wrong about that.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
BrritSki
2019-02-10 11:43:19 UTC
Permalink
PS  If the BBC had shown their Inside Europe - 10 years of turmoil
series during the referendum campaign there'd have been a lot more
Leave votes. Arrogant, incompetent c*nts all of them, our politicians
too.
Not quite the lot of them, IMO.  I wouldn't argue in the case of people
like Sarkozy, Juncker and several others, but I think Tusk comes quite
well out of the two programmes so far.  He seems reasonably pragmatic
and sensitive to the conflicting views of all those involved.
Better perhaps, esp. in the first one, but still rather smug and pleased
with himself. There was one particular remark that waife and I both
reacted to last week. I'll see if she remembers what it was and we'll
look out for more this week.
Sam Plusnet
2019-02-09 18:20:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Post by steveski
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
NO. IT WOULD NOT.
That’ll be a no I suppose then?
Mine Dew, if you attend the ‘Twinstitute’, you may be given the opportunity
to learn to speak Swedish.;-) no mention was made of reading instructions
written in Swedish though.
Just to pick up on my earlier rantette, THERE ARE NO WRITTEN INSTRUCTIONS !
They are all little pictures. Must save them millions in printing and
paper costs...
YouTube has lots and lots of "unboxing" videos {Why?- Ed}.
It's worth having a look to see if there's an assembly video.
--
Sam Plusnet
steveski
2019-02-10 02:23:31 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 09 Feb 2019 18:20:36 +0000, Sam Plusnet wrote:

[]
Post by Sam Plusnet
YouTube has lots and lots of "unboxing" videos {Why?- Ed}
It's a 'thing'.
--
Steveski
BrritSki
2019-02-10 08:56:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by BrritSki
Post by Mike
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Post by steveski
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
NO. IT WOULD NOT.
That’ll be a no I suppose then?
Mine Dew, if you attend the ‘Twinstitute’, you may be given the opportunity
to learn to speak Swedish.;-) no mention was made of reading
instructions
written in Swedish though.
Just to pick up on my earlier rantette, THERE ARE NO WRITTEN
INSTRUCTIONS !
They are all little pictures. Must save them millions in printing and
paper costs...
YouTube has lots and lots of "unboxing" videos {Why?- Ed}.
It's worth having a look to see if there's an assembly video.
Yes, they do and IKEA produce lots of them. I don't bother with simple
things, but I did look at the ones for the large mirrored sliding
wardrobe doors as they looked a bit complicated. Actually very easy once
you'd figured it out.

Problem with the videos is that they are either reall time and very slow
and boring, or speeded up so you can't see the detail of what they're
doing in the tricky bits. I haven't figured out how to FF or slow down
video on my laptop....
Mike
2019-02-10 09:14:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by BrritSki
Post by Mike
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Post by steveski
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
NO. IT WOULD NOT.
That’ll be a no I suppose then?
Mine Dew, if you attend the ‘Twinstitute’, you may be given the opportunity
to learn to speak Swedish.;-) no mention was made of reading instructions
written in Swedish though.
Just to pick up on my earlier rantette, THERE ARE NO WRITTEN
INSTRUCTIONS !
They are all little pictures. Must save them millions in printing and
paper costs...
YouTube has lots and lots of "unboxing" videos {Why?- Ed}.
It's worth having a look to see if there's an assembly video.
Yes, they do and IKEA produce lots of them. I don't bother with simple
things, but I did look at the ones for the large mirrored sliding
wardrobe doors as they looked a bit complicated. Actually very easy once
you'd figured it out.
Problem with the videos is that they are either reall time and very slow
and boring, or speeded up so you can't see the detail of what they're
doing in the tricky bits. I haven't figured out how to FF or slow down
video on my laptop....
You obviously don’t shout loudly enough at your lapdog for your wishes to
be understood and carried out - err, do you need a helpful video on how to
do this perhaps? ;-)
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Odell
2019-02-10 09:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Problem with the videos is that they are either reall time and very slow
and boring, or speeded up so you can't see the detail of what they're
doing in the tricky bits. I haven't figured out how to FF or slow down
video on my laptop....
Use the "Open Network Stream" feature of VLC Media Player and watch it
via VLC. Use VLC's controls to speed up/slow down/take snapshots etc as
required.

Nick
Sid Nuncius
2019-02-09 11:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Post by steveski
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
NO. IT WOULD NOT.
That’ll be a no I suppose then?
You're dead right.
--
Sid (Make sure Matron is away when you reply)
Mike
2019-02-09 11:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Post by steveski
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
NO. IT WOULD NOT.
That’ll be a no I suppose then?
You're dead right.
I’d rather be alive (right or rong)! ;-)
--
Toodle Pip
Nick Leverton
2019-02-09 12:37:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by steveski
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
NO. IT WOULD NOT.
Sorry, a bit dark in here to tell.

Nick
--
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996
Sam Plusnet
2019-02-09 18:18:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sid Nuncius
Post by Mike
Post by steveski
And a 3/8" Gripley.
Wouldn’t that be a 9 or 10 mm.?
NO. IT WOULD NOT.
Incidently, I just searched ebay for a 3/8" Gripley.

None to be had for love nor money.

Odd that.
--
Sam Plusnet
Sam Plusnet
2019-02-06 21:10:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by Jenny M Benson
Now it's Ikea references which go completely over my head.
What is an Ikea and do I need one?
If you do, you may also need a screwdriver, a hammer, a mallet, some
woodworking adhesive, gaffer tape, duct tape, duck tape, insulating tape, a
try-square, paint brushes and a stilson wrench....
You forgot a 'proper' set of allen keys/hex wrenches.
--
Sam Plusnet
BrritSki
2019-02-07 09:22:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by Jenny M Benson
Now it's Ikea references which go completely over my head.
What is an Ikea and do I need one?
If you do, you may also need a screwdriver, a hammer, a mallet, some
woodworking adhesive, gaffer tape, duct tape, duck tape, insulating tape, a
try-square, paint brushes and a stilson wrench....
You forgot a 'proper' set of allen keys/hex wrenches.
I realise this is a joke thread, but it is really irritating me. I've
built a lot of IKEA furniture, esp. recently, and all you need are a
screwdriver, a hammer and a spirit level for some items.
If you need allen keys they're included. Yes, I do use a rechargeable
electric screwdriver for my own convenience, but it's not really
necessary...

Carry on...
Mike
2019-02-07 12:07:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by BrritSki
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mike
Post by krw
Post by Jenny M Benson
Now it's Ikea references which go completely over my head.
What is an Ikea and do I need one?
If you do, you may also need a screwdriver, a hammer, a mallet, some
woodworking adhesive, gaffer tape, duct tape, duck tape, insulating tape, a
try-square, paint brushes and a stilson wrench....
You forgot a 'proper' set of allen keys/hex wrenches.
I realise this is a joke thread, but it is really irritating me. I've
built a lot of IKEA furniture, esp. recently, and all you need are a
screwdriver, a hammer and a spirit level for some items.
If you need allen keys they're included. Yes, I do use a rechargeable
electric screwdriver for my own convenience, but it's not really
necessary...
Carry on...
When we met Wunderkind at Reading Meatball land a few weeks back (yes, we
did try them) we signed up and have been offered any one of three items as
an ‘introductory present’ - one of them doesn’t look as if it would be out
of place in a male patient’s ward...
--
Toodle Pip
Penny
2019-02-06 11:09:26 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 06 Feb 2019 08:56:31 GMT, Mike <***@ntlworld.com> scrawled
in the dust...
Post by Penny
ink it's high time the channels grew up and
Post by Penny
stopped deliberately competing over time slots with Drama vs Drama, silly
'reality' show vs silly 'reality' show, soap vs soap. It leaves the
audience recording the progs they want to see and watching them when the
progs they don't want to see are on every channel. One day the advertisers
might figure this out too and put some pressure on for more sensible
programming, but I won't hold my breath.
I have developed quite a knack with my commercial break zapping finger;
majority of commercial network progs we watch have 4 minute breaks, others
we have sussed have 5-6 minutes breaks. The zapper has 8 or sometimes 10
presses and if still playing very silly messages - then 2 more! I have
never felt any compulsion to watch any of the silly and tedious messages
displayed ‘for your enjoyment and amusement’.
I think my skip forward button is adjustable (I've had this machine a long
time) and is set to 2 minutes - backward skips seem to be around 20
seconds. So clicking twice works fine on Ch4, Ch5 and ITV but I watch a lot
on CBS channels and Pick which mostly have longer and variable ad breaks
depending to some degree on time of broadcast.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959
krw
2019-02-06 12:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Penny
I think my skip forward button is adjustable (I've had this machine a long
time) and is set to 2 minutes
I wish Sky had that. Normally I fast forward at x12 as for me x30 is
too fast to hit the right start point.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics
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