2019 nominees - Rock & Roll Hall of Fame

[SavoyBG]

THE 15 NOMINEES FOR THE 2019 ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME

Def Leppard
Devo
Janet Jackson
John Prine
Kraftwerk
LL Cool J
MC5
Radiohead
Rage Against the Machine
Roxy Music
Rufus featuring Chaka Khan
Stevie Nicks
The Cure
The Zombies
Todd Rundgren

THE FAN VOTE / VOTE HERE https://www.rockhall.com/fanvote/vote?v=1

[BobbyM]

Post by SavoyBG
THE 15 NOMINEES FOR THE 2019 ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
Def Leppard
Devo
Janet Jackson
John Prine
Kraftwerk
LL Cool J
MC5
Radiohead
Rage Against the Machine
Roxy Music
Rufus featuring Chaka Khan
Stevie Nicks
The Cure
The Zombies
Todd Rundgren
THE FAN VOTE / VOTE HERE https://www.rockhall.com/fanvote/vote?v=1

I would really like to see John Prine get the recognition but I don't think he's a good fit in any of the categories. Nonetheless, he's a great singer/songwriter. Everybody should own at least the first couple of albums.

Todd Rundgren should be a shoe-in. Multi-talented: member of a band (The Nazz), solo artist, multi-instrumentalist, record producer, and more. And he's from Philadelphia, which probably gives him an extra point or two.

Kraftwerk deserves to be in even though they lose a couple of points for me due to their tremendous electronic influence on music (but without a doubt they were innovative).

[SavoyBG]

Post by BobbyM
I would really like to see John Prine get the recognition but I don't think he's a good fit in any of the categories. Nonetheless, he's a great singer/songwriter. Everybody should own at least the first couple of albums.

No thanks. It's absurd for him to get nominated when acts like Kool and the Gang never have.

[BobbyM]

Post by SavoyBG

Post by BobbyM
I would really like to see John Prine get the recognition but I don't think he's a good fit in any of the categories. Nonetheless, he's a great singer/songwriter. Everybody should own at least the first couple of albums.

No thanks. It's absurd for him to get nominated when acts like Kool and the Gang never have.

Guess I should have inserted a caveat. If you only listen to the lyrics phonetically, don't bother listening to John Prine. Prine's songs can make you laugh, make you cry, & make you think. But it's not particularly good dance music.

[Dean F.]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 8:06:41 PM UTC-4, BobbyM wrote:

<< Guess I should have inserted a caveat. If you only listen to the lyrics phonetically, don't bother listening to John Prine. Prine's songs can make you laugh, make you cry, & make you think. But it's not particularly good dance music. >>

If Laura Nyro and Leonard Cohen could be inducted as performers, why not John Prine?

On a side note, Swamp Dogg did a terrific version of "Sam Stone."

[SavoyBG]

Post by Dean F.
<< Guess I should have inserted a caveat. If you only listen to the lyrics phonetically, don't bother listening to John Prine. Prine's songs can make you laugh, make you cry, & make you think. But it's not particularly good dance music. >>
If Laura Nyro and Leonard Cohen could be inducted as performers, why not John Prine?
On a side note, Swamp Dogg did a terrific version of "Sam Stone."

Sounds like you actually know something about John Prine. I could not have named even one song by him before today. He never had a chart single, and only one album that made the BB top 100, at # 66.

[Dean F.]

On Tuesday, October 9, 2018 at 11:44:10 PM UTC-4, SavoyBG wrote:

<< Sounds like you actually know something about John Prine. I could not have named even one song by him before today. He never had a chart single, and only one album that made the BB top 100, at # 66. >>

So you're back to opportunistically judging music by its chart success (or lack of it)?

[SavoyBG]

Post by Dean F.
<< Sounds like you actually know something about John Prine. I could not have named even one song by him before today. He never had a chart single, and only one album that made the BB top 100, at # 66. >>
So you're back to opportunistically judging music by its chart success (or lack of it)?

No, I'm judging the hall of fame worthiness of an act by several things, one of which is popularity. Whether or not music is good is 100% subjective. If I judged an act's hall of famed worthiness by my opinion of its music the members would look a lot different.

[SavoyBG]

Post by Dean F.
<< Sounds like you actually know something about John Prine. I could not have named even one song by him before today. He never had a chart single, and only one album that made the BB top 100, at # 66. >>
So you're back to opportunistically judging music by its chart success (or lack of it)?

It's interesting how whenever they nominate some non mainstream act that it's usually some white person who they claim wrote great lyrics.

[DianeE]

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Dean F.
<< Sounds like you actually know something about John Prine. I could not have named even one song by him before today. He never had a chart single, and only one album that made the BB top 100, at # 66. >>
So you're back to opportunistically judging music by its chart success (or lack of it)?

It's interesting how whenever they nominate some non mainstream act that it's usually some white person who they claim wrote great lyrics.

-----------
Nina Simone? Miles Davis?

[SavoyBG]

Post by BobbyM
I would really like to see John Prine get the recognition but I don't think he's a good fit in any of the categories. Nonetheless, he's a great singer/songwriter. Everybody should own at least the first couple of albums.

I just listened to his first album on youtube. I would not say it was bad, but I certainly would not have any desire to ever hear any of those tracks again. Innocuous folkish, countryish stuff that did not offend me, but did not interest me either. To each his own, I guess, Bobby.

[SavoyBG]

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_hall-of-fame-nom-2019-x.html

[DianeE]

Post by SavoyBG
https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_hall-of-fame-nom-2019-x.html

-----------------
If you don't have the energy to read the whole article, just read this,
to which I think we can all say "AMEN":


<< Not surprisingly nine of the fifteen names on the ballot came of age
in the 1960's and 70's, which is alarming because... a) the best 60's
and 70's acts have already made it years ago, and... b) they've barely
scratched the surface when it comes to honoring the best 80's and 90's
artists. If you think this ISN'T because of who is on the Nominating
Committee but rather it's merely because they want to "get to" all of
the qualified names while they're still around, consider this: They
never afforded the same gushing respect for the 1950's, a decade that
has been far more neglected by the Hall over the years. That trend
continues this year as once again Johnny Ace, The Dominoes and Chuck
Willis are ignored, as are The Clovers, Jesse Belvin, The Spaniels and
Larry Williams who've never even been nominated once in three decades.
And let's not get started on the artists like Roy Brown, Wynonie Harris,
Amos Milburn, The Ravens and Paul "Hucklebuck" Williams from the late
1940's, an era they've all but refused to acknowledge having even taken
place since that came before rock crossed over into white America. I
mean, why would a Rock 'n' Roll Hall Of Fame want to waste time
inducting the guys who actually INVENTED rock 'n' roll?!?! >>

-------------
Personally I disagree vehemently with his dismissive assessment of The
Zombies and his enthusiasm for Radiohead and Kraftwerk, but the above
paragraph is worth the whole price of admission.

[SavoyBG]

Post by Roger Ford

Post by SavoyBG
https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_hall-of-fame-nom-2019-x.html

-----------------
If you don't have the energy to read the whole article, just read this,
<< Not surprisingly nine of the fifteen names on the ballot came of age
in the 1960's and 70's, which is alarming because... a) the best 60's
and 70's acts have already made it years ago, and... b) they've barely
scratched the surface when it comes to honoring the best 80's and 90's
artists. If you think this ISN'T because of who is on the Nominating
Committee but rather it's merely because they want to "get to" all of
the qualified names while they're still around, consider this: They
never afforded the same gushing respect for the 1950's, a decade that
has been far more neglected by the Hall over the years. That trend
continues this year as once again Johnny Ace, The Dominoes and Chuck
Willis are ignored, as are The Clovers, Jesse Belvin, The Spaniels and
Larry Williams who've never even been nominated once in three decades.
And let's not get started on the artists like Roy Brown, Wynonie Harris,
Amos Milburn, The Ravens and Paul "Hucklebuck" Williams from the late
1940's, an era they've all but refused to acknowledge having even taken
place since that came before rock crossed over into white America. I
mean, why would a Rock 'n' Roll Hall Of Fame want to waste time
inducting the guys who actually INVENTED rock 'n' roll?!?! >>
-------------
Personally I disagree vehemently with his dismissive assessment of The
Zombies and his enthusiasm for Radiohead and Kraftwerk, but the above
paragraph is worth the whole price of admission.

The ending was good too:

Along those lines now that the great Big Jay McNeely died at the age of 90 this September, a revolutionary artist who was a towering figure in rock's earliest days when he essentially created the entire showmanship aspect of rock and who was deserving of induction for the past three decades without ever receiving so much as a nomination, it'd be exactly the kind of cruelly ironic touch the Hall is known for to give him some sort of posthumous honor this year. Why is that, you ask? Because - to their way of thinking - now he won't be around to mess up the ceremonies by appearing there in person.

[SavoyBG]

Post by DianeE
-------------
Personally I disagree vehemently with his dismissive assessment of The
Zombies and his enthusiasm for Radiohead and Kraftwerk, but the above
paragraph is worth the whole price of admission.

I can't stand Kraftwerk or Radiohead, but they are both far more deserving of being inducted than the Zombies. The Zombies were just 2 great hit singles in 1964 and one very significant album which contained a third great hit single in 1968, but nothing much in between and zero after that album.

[Dean F.]

I can't stand Kraftwerk or Radiohead, but they are both far more deserving of being inducted than the Zombies. The Zombies were just 2 great hit singles in 1964 and one very significant album which contained a third great hit single in 1968, but nothing much in between and zero after that album. >>

The Zombies are living proof that if you're nominated enough times, you'll be inducted eventually.

[DianeE]

Post by Dean F.

I can't stand Kraftwerk or Radiohead, but they are both far more deserving of being inducted than the Zombies. The Zombies were just 2 great hit singles in 1964 and one very significant album which contained a third great hit single in 1968, but nothing much in between and zero after that album. >>

The Zombies are living proof that if you're nominated enough times, you'll be inducted eventually.

----------
Chic was nominated 9 times, never got in. I personally liked the
Zombies a lot, still enjoy listening to them. Can't say the same for
any of these other artists.

What happened with Kool & The Gang? Did they get in last year?

[SavoyBG]

Post by DianeE

Post by Dean F.

I can't stand Kraftwerk or Radiohead, but they are both far more deserving of being inducted than the Zombies. The Zombies were just 2 great hit singles in 1964 and one very significant album which contained a third great hit single in 1968, but nothing much in between and zero after that album. >>

The Zombies are living proof that if you're nominated enough times, you'll be inducted eventually.

----------
Chic was nominated 9 times, never got in. I personally liked the
Zombies a lot, still enjoy listening to them. Can't say the same for
any of these other artists.
What happened with Kool & The Gang? Did they get in last year?

They've never been nominated.

[Dean F.]

Post by DianeE
Chic was nominated 9 times, never got in.

And the HOF was so embarrassed over it, they gave the Award for Musical Excellence to Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards.

I'll amend my original statement, "If you're white and you're nominated enough times...."

Post by DianeE
I personally liked the
Zombies a lot, still enjoy listening to them. Can't say the same for
any of these other artists.

I've always liked "She's Not There," "Tell Her No," and "Time of the Season." And when I'm in the right mood, I can play ODYSSEY & ORACLE. But should three good singles and one good album really qualify an act for Hall of Fame status?

Post by DianeE
What happened with Kool & The Gang? Did they get in last year?

No. The HOF was too busy making room for Bon fucking Jovi.

[SavoyBG]

Post by Dean F.

Post by DianeE
Chic was nominated 9 times, never got in.

And the HOF was so embarrassed over it, they gave the Award for Musical Excellence to Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards.
I'll amend my original statement, "If you're white and you're nominated enough times...."

Post by DianeE
I personally liked the
Zombies a lot, still enjoy listening to them. Can't say the same for
any of these other artists.

I've always liked "She's Not There," "Tell Her No," and "Time of the Season." And when I'm in the right mood, I can play ODYSSEY & ORACLE. But should three good singles and one good album really qualify an act for Hall of Fame status?

Post by DianeE
What happened with Kool & The Gang? Did they get in last year?

No. The HOF was too busy making room for Bon fucking Jovi.

Bon Jovi was a good induction. They were the biggest live act in the world for like a decade.

[Dennis C]

He was an Aldo Nova ripoff!!!

[SavoyBG]

Individual 666
@WhiskeyTangoHo1
@StevieVanZandt Stevie...may I ask what band, above all others, do u think should already been in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
8:35 AM - 30 Nov 2018 from Denver, CO

Stevie Van Zandt
Procol Harum, closely followed by the J Geils Band, Johnny Burnette & Rock And Roll Trio, Junior Walker & the All Stars, Bad Company, Delaney & Bonnie, Raspberries, and individuals like Linc Wray, Roy Brown, Dick Dale, Gary US Bonds, Taj Mahal, Joe Cocker, it’s a long list.

[Dennis C]

No Austin Roberts?

[Eric Ramon]

Post by SavoyBG
Individual 666
@WhiskeyTangoHo1
@StevieVanZandt Stevie...may I ask what band, above all others, do u think should already been in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame?
8:35 AM - 30 Nov 2018 from Denver, CO
Stevie Van Zandt
Procol Harum, closely followed by the J Geils Band, Johnny Burnette & Rock And Roll Trio, Junior Walker & the All Stars, Bad Company, Delaney & Bonnie, Raspberries, and individuals like Linc Wray, Roy Brown, Dick Dale, Gary US Bonds, Taj Mahal, Joe Cocker, it’s a long list.

Yes, he's into the kind of music I like. They should let him run it.

[Dennis C]

Rundgren's omission is sad indeed. It's becoming a badge of honor and validity NOT to be on it now!

[Dean F.]

Post by Dennis C
He was an Aldo Nova ripoff!!!

Admittedly, I thought Nova's "Fantasy" was a good record (even if he ripped off the title from Earth, Wind & Fire).

[Bob Roman]

Post by Dean F.

Post by Dennis C
He was an Aldo Nova ripoff!!!

Admittedly, I thought Nova's "Fantasy" was a good record (even if he ripped off the
title from Earth, Wind & Fire).

I wouldn't be here without that song. I was 17 years old, and that song struck me as such an abysmal piece of generic, artificial, soulless product. The most popular band at the time was Journey, and I never cared for their sound, and things got worse with Loverboy, which was similar but somehow even worse. But then I heard "Fantasy" by Aldo Nova, and it all became clear. That song was the quintessence of all that I loathed in contemporary music. I had been exploring older music for about two years at that point, but that's when I entirely gave up on music from my time and became fully committed to looking backward.

--
BR

[Dennis C]

Well then!!

I really liked his gutar solos.

The groove of Fantasy actually totally rips off "Jane" by Jefferson Starshite!

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by Dean F.

Post by Dennis C
He was an Aldo Nova ripoff!!!

Admittedly, I thought Nova's "Fantasy" was a good record (even if he ripped off the
title from Earth, Wind & Fire).

I wouldn't be here without that song. I was 17 years old, and that song struck me as such an abysmal piece of generic, artificial, soulless product. The most popular band at the time was Journey, and I never cared for their sound, and things got worse with Loverboy, which was similar but somehow even worse. But then I heard "Fantasy" by Aldo Nova, and it all became clear. That song was the quintessence of all that I loathed in contemporary music. I had been exploring older music for about two years at that point, but that's when I entirely gave up on music from my time and became fully committed to looking backward.
--
BR

Good thing you were not hip enough to know the good stuff that was around in 1983 as you seem to have only listened to mainstream rock.

[Dennis C]

Ouch, babe!

[Bob Roman]

Post by SavoyBG
Good thing you were not hip enough to know the good stuff that was around in 1983
as you seem to have only listened to mainstream rock.

We were talking about the mainstream. Yes, there was some good music in 1982 -- my brother, two years older, introduced me to the Grandmaster Flash album with "The Message" that year -- and there was even more good stuff in 1983, but that all had to be hunted down. My richest experience in hunting down music was discovering old R&B.

When I got to college in 1983, there were better record stores near campus than I had known in the suburbs. There was one called Magnolia Thunderpussy, where I found an original Dominoes album on King, and bought it and the first REM album the same day.

--
BR

[Dean F.]

Post by SavoyBG
Bon Jovi was a good induction. They were the biggest live act in the world
for like a decade.

Rock journalist Jimmy Guterman described the band as "bubblemetal" and their leader as "Pat Boone in leather." I got a chuckle out of that.

[Bob Roman]

Post by Dean F.

Post by DianeE
Chic was nominated 9 times, never got in.

And the HOF was so embarrassed over it, they gave the Award for Musical Excellence
to Nile Rodgers and Bernard Edwards.

Only Rodgers. Not Edwards.

--
BR

[Dean F.]

On Wednesday, October 10, 2018 at 2:03:22 PM UTC-4, SavoyBG wrote:

<< I just listened to his first album on youtube. I would not say it was bad, but I certainly would not have any desire to ever hear any of those tracks again. Innocuous folkish, countryish stuff that did not offend me, but did not interest me either. To each his own, I guess, Bobby. >>

I'm no John Prine expert; I know the man for maybe a half-dozen songs. I first heard of Prine through the aforementioned Swamp Dogg cover of "Sam Stone," and because I was friendly with some pot-smokers who had adopted "Illegal Smile" as their anthem.

[Bob Roman]

Post by SavoyBG
Def Leppard

The KISS/Bon Jovi of this year. Disliked by many but will likely win the fan vote. Enough "populist" voters will agree.

Post by SavoyBG
Devo

A lot of critics like them, and consider then unique and influential, and that may be enough in a weak year.

Post by SavoyBG
Janet Jackson

In the year of #MeToo, a woman will be inducted. I predict it will be Janet over Chaka Khan or solo-Stevie.

Post by SavoyBG
Radiohead

Critics love these guys. They got punished last year for bad-mouthing the Hall. This year they will be forgiven.

Post by SavoyBG
The Cure

Another critics' darling, and -- for a mopey post-punk, dance band -- fairly popular in their day. I'm surprised they aren't in already.

--
BR

[Bob Roman]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by SavoyBG
Def Leppard

The KISS/Bon Jovi of this year. Disliked by many but will likely win the fan vote.
Enough "populist" voters will agree.

Post by SavoyBG
Devo

A lot of critics like them, and consider then unique and influential, and that may
be enough in a weak year.

Post by SavoyBG
Janet Jackson

In the year of #MeToo, a woman will be inducted. I predict it will be Janet over
Chaka Khan or solo-Stevie.

Post by SavoyBG
Radiohead

Critics love these guys. They got punished last year for bad-mouthing the Hall.
This year they will be forgiven.

Post by SavoyBG
The Cure

Another critics' darling, and -- for a mopey post-punk, dance band -- fairly
popular in their day. I'm surprised they aren't in already.

Other than Devo, and assuming they would only take 5, I guessed pretty well.

--
BR

[DianeE]

Post by SavoyBG
Devo

----------
Really? Devo? I hope Lee Dorsey is already inducted, since one of
Devo's biggest hits was a remake of his song. (And since he had more
talent in his little finger than they had in their whole silly group.)
------------

Post by SavoyBG
LL Cool J

------------
I always liked him. Hope he gets in. (He's from Queens.)
--------------

Post by SavoyBG
The Zombies

--------------
They were melodic without being too pop-y. I think they're overdue.
--------------
One more comment: Thank God they finally gave up on Chic. After 9
failures they tried to force them in by giving Nile Rodgers some
lifetime achievement award or something. That was fair enough, but Chic
was an inane lightweight disco group and did not deserve induction.

[Dean F.]

Post by DianeE
Really? Devo? I hope Lee Dorsey is already inducted, since one of
Devo's biggest hits was a remake of his song. (And since he had more
talent in his little finger than they had in their whole silly group.)

Devo's biggest hit was "Whip It." When did Lee Dorsey record that song?

[SavoyBG]

Post by Dean F.

Post by DianeE
Really? Devo? I hope Lee Dorsey is already inducted, since one of
Devo's biggest hits was a remake of his song. (And since he had more
talent in his little finger than they had in their whole silly group.)

Devo's biggest hit was "Whip It." When did Lee Dorsey record that song?

She's talking about "Working In A Coal Mine" by Devo, which was their second biggest hit in the USA.

[Roger Ford]

Post by SavoyBG
THE 15 NOMINEES FOR THE 2019 ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
Def Leppard
Devo
Janet Jackson
John Prine
Kraftwerk
LL Cool J
MC5
Radiohead
Rage Against the Machine
Roxy Music
Rufus featuring Chaka Khan
Stevie Nicks
The Cure
The Zombies
Todd Rundgren

I find I will be unable to catch the TV broadcast as I'm watching a
paint drying competition that night

ROGER FORD
-----------------------

"Spam Free Zone" - to combat unwanted automatic spamming I have added
an extra "m" in my e-mail address (***@mmail.com).
Please delete same before responding.Thank you!

[DianeE]

Post by Roger Ford

Post by SavoyBG
THE 15 NOMINEES FOR THE 2019 ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME
Def Leppard
Devo
Janet Jackson
John Prine
Kraftwerk
LL Cool J
MC5
Radiohead
Rage Against the Machine
Roxy Music
Rufus featuring Chaka Khan
Stevie Nicks
The Cure
The Zombies
Todd Rundgren

I find I will be unable to catch the TV broadcast as I'm watching a
paint drying competition that night

----------------
I hope your heart can stand the excitement! Me, I'll probably be
napping...or listening to that Jukin' Oldies station.

[Bob Roman]

They took seven this year. It's almost as if they make up the rules as they go along...

The Cure
Def Leppard
Janet Jackson
Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Roxy Music
The Zombies

--
BR

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman
They took seven this year. It's almost as if they make up the rules as they go along...
The Cure
Def Leppard
Janet Jackson
Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Roxy Music
The Zombies

A ridiculous and unnecessary second induction for Nicks when Chubby Checker can't even get nominated.

[Dennis C]

Bruce hereby nominates Chubby Checker and I nominate the Singing Nun and we'll slip 'em in under the guise of Twisted Sister, baby!!!

[Dean F.]

Post by SavoyBG
A ridiculous and unnecessary second induction for Nicks when Chubby Checker
can't even get nominated.

Exactly! How about if they stop inducting the same people time and again and give other acts a chance? Of course, that won't happen while the HOF's nominating committee comprises old farts who want to keep the '60s and '70s alive as long as possible.

[Mark Dintenfass]

Post by Dean F.

Post by SavoyBG
A ridiculous and unnecessary second induction for Nicks when Chubby Checker
can't even get nominated.

Exactly! How about if they stop inducting the same people time and again and
give other acts a chance? Of course, that won't happen while the HOF's
nominating committee comprises old farts who want to keep the '60s and '70s
alive as long as possible.

You prefer younger farts who will keep the 80s and 90s going?

[SavoyBG]

Post by Mark Dintenfass

Post by Dean F.

Post by SavoyBG
A ridiculous and unnecessary second induction for Nicks when Chubby Checker
can't even get nominated.

Exactly! How about if they stop inducting the same people time and again and
give other acts a chance? Of course, that won't happen while the HOF's
nominating committee comprises old farts who want to keep the '60s and '70s
alive as long as possible.

You prefer younger farts who will keep the 80s and 90s going?

I'd rather see De La Soul and BDP and Eric B and Rakim and A Tribe Called Quest and LL Cool J go in than Roxy Music and Nicks a second time.

[Dennis C]

You're acting affirmatively again, Brucie!

You told to remind you when you started to go off on one of your reverse racist jags again, baby!!!

A Tribe called Quest my tit!!

[Dean F.]

Post by Mark Dintenfass
You prefer younger farts who will keep the 80s and 90s going?

How about people with a sense of the music's history? There are plenty of important pre-Beatles acts who've yet to be inducted--and in some cases, even nominated.

[Dennis C]

Like Lou Christie!!! Like Lou Christie!!

[SavoyBG]

Post by Dean F.

Post by SavoyBG
A ridiculous and unnecessary second induction for Nicks when Chubby Checker
can't even get nominated.

Exactly! How about if they stop inducting the same people time and again and give other acts a chance? Of course, that won't happen while the HOF's nominating committee comprises old farts who want to keep the '60s and '70s alive as long as possible.

This is the 5th year in a row that they had just one token black inductee.

[Bob Roman]

Post by Dean F.
Exactly! How about if they stop inducting the same people time and again and give
other acts a chance? Of course, that won't happen while the HOF's nominating
committee comprises old farts who want to keep the '60s and '70s alive as long as
possible.

Too many geriatric old farts voting for bygone days.

We need some sprightly youngsters who will vote for Wynonie Harris, Chuck Willis, and the Clovers.

--
BR

[Steve Mc]

Post by Bob Roman
They took seven this year. It's almost as if they make up the rules as they go along...
The Cure
Def Leppard
Janet Jackson
Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Roxy Music
The Zombies
--
BR

I could name a couple of records by the Zombies.

[Bob Roman]

Post by Steve Mc

Post by Bob Roman
They took seven this year. It's almost as if they make up the rules as they go along...
The Cure
Def Leppard
Janet Jackson
Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Roxy Music
The Zombies
--
BR

I could name a couple of records by the Zombies.

I can name exactly three. I doubt that many, on either side of the Atlantic, can name more than those same three.

--
BR

[Steve Mc]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by Steve Mc

Post by Bob Roman
They took seven this year. It's almost as if they make up the rules as they go along...
The Cure
Def Leppard
Janet Jackson
Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Roxy Music
The Zombies
--
BR

I could name a couple of records by the Zombies.

I can name exactly three. I doubt that many, on either side of the Atlantic, can name more than those same three.
--
BR

You're right. I should have said a few, because I could name those same
3. But on the other hand, my main point was that I couldn't name any
songs by the other nominees.

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by Steve Mc

Post by Bob Roman
They took seven this year. It's almost as if they make up the rules as they go
along...
The Cure
Def Leppard
Janet Jackson
Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Roxy Music
The Zombies
--
BR

I could name a couple of records by the Zombies.

I can name exactly three. I doubt that many, on either side of the Atlantic, can name more than those same three.

They have one huge classic album and lots of people could name songs from that.

http://acclaimedmusic.net/artist/The%20Zombies.htm

[Dennis C]

Anybody in here agree with me that Eddie Money needs to be nominated?

[SavoyBG]

Post by Dennis C
Anybody in here agree with me that Eddie Money needs to be nominated?

As what, a valet to the inductees?

[t***@iwvisp.com]

I was surprised to learn that he has 11 Top 40 songs, 4 of which I remember, and 1 that wouldn’t have been a hit without Ronnie Spector.

Ray

[Dennis C]

Well, he wrote all his damn songs and the Ronnie Spector classic was HIS idea!! Quid pro quo, baby!! Ronnie was home washing dishes when she got the call from Eddie!!

He was a factor from 1978 to the early 90's and songs like "Trinidad", "Give me some Water", and " The Love in your Eyes" were downright gems, baby!!!

Radiohead my tit!!

[Eric Ramon]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by Steve Mc

Post by Bob Roman
They took seven this year. It's almost as if they make up the rules as they go
along...
The Cure
Def Leppard
Janet Jackson
Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Roxy Music
The Zombies
--
BR

I could name a couple of records by the Zombies.

I can name exactly three. I doubt that many, on either side of the Atlantic, can name more than those same three.
--
BR

I can probably name 20. Those who are fans of artists know the tunes. Many can only name 1 Percy Sledge song.

I suspect the Zombies got in partly because the reconstituted group is doing a lot of shows and stressing the Odessey and Oracle album (which critics love).

I also would guess that when the ceremony happens they'll play those 3 songs!

[SavoyBG]

Post by Eric Ramon

Post by Bob Roman

Post by Steve Mc

Post by Bob Roman
They took seven this year. It's almost as if they make up the rules as they go
along...
The Cure
Def Leppard
Janet Jackson
Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Roxy Music
The Zombies
--
BR

I could name a couple of records by the Zombies.

I can name exactly three. I doubt that many, on either side of the Atlantic, can name more than those same three.
--
BR

I can probably name 20. Those who are fans of artists know the tunes. Many can only name 1 Percy Sledge song.
I suspect the Zombies got in partly because the reconstituted group is doing a lot of shows and stressing the Odessey and Oracle album (which critics love).
I also would guess that when the ceremony happens they'll play those 3 songs!

Van Zandt has been pushing for the Zombies for years. Sledge is one of the worst inductions ever. The worst being Laura Nyro's induction as a performer.

[BobbyM]

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Eric Ramon

Post by Bob Roman

Post by Steve Mc

Post by Bob Roman
They took seven this year. It's almost as if they make up the rules as they go
along...
The Cure
Def Leppard
Janet Jackson
Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Roxy Music
The Zombies
--
BR

I could name a couple of records by the Zombies.

I can name exactly three. I doubt that many, on either side of the Atlantic, can name more than those same three.
--
BR

I can probably name 20. Those who are fans of artists know the tunes. Many can only name 1 Percy Sledge song.
I suspect the Zombies got in partly because the reconstituted group is doing a lot of shows and stressing the Odessey and Oracle album (which critics love).
I also would guess that when the ceremony happens they'll play those 3 songs!

Van Zandt has been pushing for the Zombies for years. Sledge is one of the worst inductions ever. The worst being Laura Nyro's induction as a performer.

I thought surely you'd have named Leonard Cohen as the worst selection :>). But you're right, if they wanted her in so badly, she should've been inducted solely as a songwriter.

[SavoyBG]

Post by BobbyM

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Eric Ramon

Post by Bob Roman

Post by Steve Mc

Post by Bob Roman
They took seven this year. It's almost as if they make up the rules as they go
along...
The Cure
Def Leppard
Janet Jackson
Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Roxy Music
The Zombies
--
BR

I could name a couple of records by the Zombies.

I can name exactly three. I doubt that many, on either side of the Atlantic, can name more than those same three.
--
BR

I can probably name 20. Those who are fans of artists know the tunes. Many can only name 1 Percy Sledge song.
I suspect the Zombies got in partly because the reconstituted group is doing a lot of shows and stressing the Odessey and Oracle album (which critics love).
I also would guess that when the ceremony happens they'll play those 3 songs!

Van Zandt has been pushing for the Zombies for years. Sledge is one of the worst inductions ever. The worst being Laura Nyro's induction as a performer.

I thought surely you'd have named Leonard Cohen as the worst selection :>). But you're right, if they wanted her in so badly, she should've been inducted solely as a songwriter.

Her and Randy Newman should have gone in as contributors rather than performers. Carole King is still only in as a non performer.

[Mark Dintenfass]

Post by SavoyBG

Post by BobbyM

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Eric Ramon

Post by Bob Roman

Post by Steve Mc

Post by Bob Roman
They took seven this year. It's almost as if they make up the
rules as they go
along...
The Cure
Def Leppard
Janet Jackson
Stevie Nicks
Radiohead
Roxy Music
The Zombies
--
BR

I could name a couple of records by the Zombies.

I can name exactly three. I doubt that many, on either side of the
Atlantic, can name more than those same three.
--
BR

I can probably name 20. Those who are fans of artists know the tunes.
Many can only name 1 Percy Sledge song.
I suspect the Zombies got in partly because the reconstituted group is
doing a lot of shows and stressing the Odessey and Oracle album (which
critics love).
I also would guess that when the ceremony happens they'll play those 3 songs!

Van Zandt has been pushing for the Zombies for years. Sledge is one of
the worst inductions ever. The worst being Laura Nyro's induction as a
performer.

I thought surely you'd have named Leonard Cohen as the worst selection :>).
But you're right, if they wanted her in so badly, she should've been
inducted solely as a songwriter.

Her and Randy Newman should have gone in as contributors rather than performers. Carole King is still only in as a non performer.

I saw Randy Newman in concert a couple of times, and while it "ain't
what they call rock'n'roll," he was really good. In the era of the
"singer-songwriters" he was probably the best.

[DianeE]

On 12/13/2018 7:41 PM, Mark Dintenfass wrote:> In article

Post by Mark Dintenfass

Post by SavoyBG

Post by BobbyM

Post by SavoyBG
Van Zandt has been pushing for the Zombies for years. Sledge is one of
the worst inductions ever. The worst being Laura Nyro's induction as a
performer.

I thought surely you'd have named Leonard Cohen as the worst

selection :>).

Post by Mark Dintenfass

Post by SavoyBG

Post by BobbyM
But you're right, if they wanted her in so badly, she should've been
inducted solely as a songwriter.

Her and Randy Newman should have gone in as contributors rather than

performers. Carole King is still only in as a non performer.
-------------
(I think Miles Davis and Nina Simone have exactly zero to do with rock &
roll....just like Leonard Cohen.)
----------------

Post by Mark Dintenfass
I saw Randy Newman in concert a couple of times, and while it "ain't
what they call rock'n'roll," he was really good. In the era of the
"singer-songwriters" he was probably the best.

-------------
Personally I think he should be in some kind of HOF just for having
written "Sail Away." But that's me.

At least we can all be happy they didn't induct John Prine!

[Bob Roman]

Post by DianeE
At least we can all be happy they didn't induct John Prine!

Not all. Not me. Of all the nominees this year, he's the one I'm most likely to listen to.

--
BR

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by DianeE
At least we can all be happy they didn't induct John Prine!

Not all. Not me. Of all the nominees this year, he's the one I'm most likely to listen to.

Figures.

[Dennis C]

He's aural gum disease!!

Just like Leonard Cohen and Lucinda Williams, baby!!!

[DianeE]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by DianeE
At least we can all be happy they didn't induct John Prine!

Not all. Not me. Of all the nominees this year, he's the one I'm most likely to listen to.
--
BR

-----------
I didn't mean I don't like him. I meant that like Leonard Cohen, Miles
Davis, and Nina Simone he's not a rock & roll artist.

[Bob Roman]

Post by DianeE

Post by Bob Roman

Post by DianeE
At least we can all be happy they didn't induct John Prine!

Not all. Not me. Of all the nominees this year, he's the one I'm most
likely to listen to.

-----------
I didn't mean I don't like him. I meant that like Leonard Cohen, Miles
Davis, and Nina Simone he's not a rock & roll artist.

I would say that he and Cohen are both, in their own ways, within the big tent.

Jazz fusion is also. "Miles Runs the Voodoo Down" is pure funk. The "A Tribute to Jack Johnson" album has guitar that sounds like it's visiting from a metal album. Davis isn't in for records like "Birth of the Cool" or "Kind of Blue." He's in for Bitches Brew, Jack Johnson, and other work from that time.

I agree that Nina Simone is not. She's an influence artist at best.

--
BR

[Bob Roman]

Post by Bob Roman
I agree that Nina Simone is not. She's an influence artist at best.

That said, she fits better than Joan Baez. Simone's R&R credentials are around zero. Baez's are in the negatives.

--
BR

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by Bob Roman
I agree that Nina Simone is not. She's an influence artist at best.

That said, she fits better than Joan Baez. Simone's R&R credentials are around zero. Baez's are in the negatives.
--
BR

This isn't rock and roll?

Certainly this is:

[Bob Roman]

Post by SavoyBG
http://youtu.be/X_eK9ERNChI

Just as much as this:

--
BR

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by SavoyBG
http://youtu.be/X_eK9ERNChI

http://youtu.be/E5NMlE3WuBg

Hardly.

What precludes "Dixie" as rock and roll?

Is it rock and roll by the Band?

[Bob Roman]

Post by SavoyBG
What precludes "Dixie" as rock and roll?

Her simpering, pretty, singsongy performance.

Post by SavoyBG
Is it rock and roll by the Band?

Yes, just as AMFD is R&R by the El Dorados. That was the point of the comparison.

--
BR

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by SavoyBG
What precludes "Dixie" as rock and roll?

Her simpering, pretty, singsongy performance.

Post by SavoyBG
Is it rock and roll by the Band?

Yes, just as AMFD is R&R by the El Dorados. That was the point of the comparison.
--
BR

So Baez's reading of "Dixie" compares to Pat Boone?

You're stark staring nuts!

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by SavoyBG
What precludes "Dixie" as rock and roll?

Her simpering, pretty, singsongy performance.

Any of these rock?

[Bob Roman]

Post by SavoyBG
Any of these rock?

I like Nina Simone. That doesn't make her a R&R artist. Willie Nelson also performs a wide variety of material, and I like him a lot, but he's not a R&R artist either.

--
BR

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by SavoyBG
Any of these rock?

I like Nina Simone. That doesn't make her a R&R artist. Willie Nelson also performs a wide variety of material, and I like him a lot, but he's not a R&R artist either.

Non responsive.

Are any of those 4 tracks rock, or not?

[Bob Roman]

Post by SavoyBG
Non responsive.
Are any of those 4 tracks rock, or not?

Do you think SHE considered them R&R performances? Or do you think she considered them jazz takes on R&R songs?

If you want to consider them R&R -- if you want to expand the tent that far -- I'm not going to fight you on the point. If someone passionately wanted to consider Willie Nelson singing "Graceland" or "The Harder They Come" as R&R, I wouldn't fight them either.

I just don't agree.

--
BR

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by SavoyBG
Non responsive.
Are any of those 4 tracks rock, or not?

Do you think SHE considered them R&R performances? Or do you think she considered them jazz takes on R&R songs?
If you want to consider them R&R -- if you want to expand the tent that far -- I'm not going to fight you on the point. If someone passionately wanted to consider Willie Nelson singing "Graceland" or "The Harder They Come" as R&R, I wouldn't fight them either.
I just don't agree.

But yet you say that Prine is rock and roll.

[Bob Roman]

Post by SavoyBG
But yet you say that Prine is rock and roll.

What else would he be?
He's not strictly a folk artist.
He's country-influenced but not part of any country tradition, and not embraced by the country audience.
He's an early-'70s singer-songwriter and called "the godfather of Americana."

--
BR

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by SavoyBG
But yet you say that Prine is rock and roll.

What else would he be?

Wikipedia says:

John Prine (born October 10, 1946) is an American country folk singer-songwriter.

His own site says:

American Country Singer Songwriter and A Brilliant Folk Songwriter.

[Bob Roman]

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Bob Roman

Post by SavoyBG
But yet you say that Prine is rock and roll.

What else would he be?

John Prine (born October 10, 1946) is an American country folk singer-
songwriter.
American Country Singer Songwriter and A Brilliant Folk Songwriter.

Bruce Grossberg says:
"I have no problem with Prine as part of rock and roll."

You're arguing just to argue now.

--
BR

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Bob Roman

Post by SavoyBG
But yet you say that Prine is rock and roll.

What else would he be?

John Prine (born October 10, 1946) is an American country folk singer-
songwriter.
American Country Singer Songwriter and A Brilliant Folk Songwriter.

"I have no problem with Prine as part of rock and roll."
You're arguing just to argue now.

I thought that by you saying that Prine was rock and roll that you had the same wide definition as me. But now that I see you saying that these other songs and artists are not rock and roll I have to question why you think that Prine is.

[Bob Roman]

Post by SavoyBG
I thought that by you saying that Prine was rock and roll that you had the
same wide definition as me. But now that I see you saying that these other
songs and artists are not rock and roll I have to question why you think
that Prine is.

I have a broad definition of R&R. I like for ambiguous cases on the fringe to be welcomed in. But, to me, Nina Simone doesn't feel ambiguous. She seems firmly in another category.

That said, I don't have strong feelings in her case. The Joan Baez induction pissed me off, because she was part of a genre that was explicitly anti-R&R. Simone was not.

And I will also say this: Even if I think an induction is an error, I do prefer an error of being too inclusive to one of being too exclusive.

--
BE

[SavoyBG]

Post by Bob Roman

Post by SavoyBG
I thought that by you saying that Prine was rock and roll that you had the
same wide definition as me. But now that I see you saying that these other
songs and artists are not rock and roll I have to question why you think
that Prine is.

I have a broad definition of R&R. I like for ambiguous cases on the fringe to be welcomed in. But, to me, Nina Simone doesn't feel ambiguous. She seems firmly in another category.
That said, I don't have strong feelings in her case. The Joan Baez induction pissed me off, because she was part of a genre that was explicitly anti-R&R. Simone was not.

So, did the Woody Guthrie induction piss you off too?

I'm not as upset about the outside genre inductions as I am about the elitist nominations/inductions for lesser known acts like Prine while 50 year institutions like Kool and the Gang can't even get nominated. And also the fact that most all of the elitist nominees are shitty white acts like Cohen and Prine who are mainly known only for lyrics, while much better known black acts like Barry White can;t even get nominated.

This was the 5th year in a row where they had just one token black act inducted. Acts like BDP, A Tribe Called Quest, Snoop Dogg, Nas, Eric B. and Rakim and others are ignored while they push minor shit like the MC5 instead.

[Bob Roman]

Post by SavoyBG
So, did the Woody Guthrie induction piss you off too?

No, he's in as an influence, not as a R&R artist. Same with Pete Seeger. If Pete Seeger had been inducted as a R&R artist, it would have been ridiculous.

--
BR

[SavoyBG]

Sampson's writeup on this year's inductees.

https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_hall-of-fame-2019-x.html

[Eric Ramon]

Post by SavoyBG
Sampson's writeup on this year's inductees.
https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_hall-of-fame-2019-x.html

whoever he is. One man's opinion. He can f--- off.

[SavoyBG]

Post by Eric Ramon

Post by SavoyBG
Sampson's writeup on this year's inductees.
https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_hall-of-fame-2019-x.html

whoever he is. One man's opinion. He can f--- off.

What's your problem with his opinion?

And why the fuck did you not spell out the word fuck?

[Eric Ramon]

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Eric Ramon

Post by SavoyBG
Sampson's writeup on this year's inductees.
https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_hall-of-fame-2019-x.html

whoever he is. One man's opinion. He can f--- off.

What's your problem with his opinion?
And why the fuck did you not spell out the word fuck?

I disagree with enough of it. He sounds like some schmuck who thinks he's hip. Not worth the time to argue with him. The RnRHOF is beyond repair so it's all a waste of time, anyway.

[DianeE]

Post by Eric Ramon

Post by SavoyBG

Post by Eric Ramon

Post by SavoyBG
Sampson's writeup on this year's inductees.
https://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_hall-of-fame-2019-x.html

whoever he is. One man's opinion. He can f--- off.

What's your problem with his opinion?
And why the fuck did you not spell out the word fuck?

I disagree with enough of it. He sounds like some schmuck who thinks he's hip. Not worth the time to argue with him. The RnRHOF is beyond repair so it's all a waste of time, anyway.

------------
"...some schmuck who thinks he's hip." NAILED IT!!!!!!

[SavoyBG]

Post by DianeE

Post by Bob Roman

Post by DianeE
At least we can all be happy they didn't induct John Prine!

Not all. Not me. Of all the nominees this year, he's the one I'm most likely to listen to.
--
BR

-----------
I didn't mean I don't like him. I meant that like Leonard Cohen, Miles
Davis, and Nina Simone he's not a rock & roll artist.

I have no problem with Prine as part of rock and roll. I just think that he's nowhere near being deserving of induction.

Here's what Sampson wrote:

Each year it seems there is somebody nominated who sticks out at first glance because you'd never expect them. This year there is absolutely no debating who that figure is as there may have been no nominee in 33 years more out of left field than John Prine. He certainly doesn't have rock credentials, even if he has the respect of those in the field for his eclectic work in country-derived styles dating back to the early 70's. A tremendous songwriter whose work is richly rewarding, but considering the sheer number of massively important rock artists dating back to 1947 who have yet to be acknowledged at all, the decision to nominate Prine reeks of the Hall's desire to be applauded for a quirky choice.
Qualifications: 2

[Dennis C]

Make that a "quarky" choice 'cause that's about how much talent Prine possesses,baby!!

[BobbyM]

Post by DianeE
On 12/13/2018 7:41 PM, Mark Dintenfass wrote:> In article

Post by Mark Dintenfass

Post by SavoyBG

Post by BobbyM

Post by SavoyBG
Van Zandt has been pushing for the Zombies for years. Sledge is

one of

Post by Mark Dintenfass

Post by SavoyBG

Post by BobbyM

Post by SavoyBG
the worst inductions ever. The worst being Laura Nyro's induction

as a

Post by Mark Dintenfass

Post by SavoyBG

Post by BobbyM

Post by SavoyBG
performer.

I thought surely you'd have named Leonard Cohen as the worst

selection :>).

Post by Mark Dintenfass

Post by SavoyBG

Post by BobbyM
But you're right, if they wanted her in so badly, she should've been
inducted solely as a songwriter.

Her and Randy Newman should have gone in as contributors rather than

performers. Carole King is still only in as a non performer.
-------------
(I think Miles Davis and Nina Simone have exactly zero to do with rock &
roll....just like Leonard Cohen.)
----------------

Post by Mark Dintenfass
I saw Randy Newman in concert a couple of times, and while it "ain't
what they call rock'n'roll," he was really good. In the era of the
"singer-songwriters" he was probably the best.

-------------
Personally I think he should be in some kind of HOF just for having
written "Sail Away."  But that's me.
At least we can all be happy they didn't induct John Prine!

Since you (like I) think that "Sail Away" is a great song, if you
haven't already heard them, I suggest you also listen to "Baltmore" and
"Louisiana 1927", among others. Those who don't care abou lyrics don't
need to go to the trouble & can keep on listening to "Short People".

[SavoyBG]

Post by BobbyM

Post by DianeE
Personally I think he should be in some kind of HOF just for having
written "Sail Away."  But that's me.
At least we can all be happy they didn't induct John Prine!

Since you (like I) think that "Sail Away" is a great song, if you
haven't already heard them, I suggest you also listen to "Baltmore" and
"Louisiana 1927", among others. Those who don't care about lyrics don't
need to go to the trouble & can keep on listening to "Short People".

No thanks. "Short People" blows.

[Bill B]

On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 8:28:24 AM UTC-5, SavoyBG wrote:


"Short People" blows.


Without kneeling.

[Bob Roman]

Some people in Cleveland think that Leo Mintz should be in the Hall of Fame. They say that Alan Freed was just a yes-man and Mintz was the mastermind.

I'm not arguing this position, just mentioning that it's out there.

--
BR