Discussion:
_Unseen_Academicals_, Terry Pratchett
(too old to reply)
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-18 19:54:07 UTC
Permalink
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.

By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.

By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.

I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.

I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
--
What is trumps what should be, and what we expect, every time.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2010-11-18 19:56:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
Alas, you've become one of THEM. The Pratchetts I have tried have
been... mildly amusing, at best, sorta like HHGTTG.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-18 20:12:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
Alas, you've become one of THEM.
Hmmm... you mean, the shove? The crab bucket? Not likely, they'd
evict me in an instant, prolly unscrew my head first.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
The Pratchetts I have tried have
been... mildly amusing, at best, sorta like HHGTTG.
I'm sure that I've read Pratchett books before, a decade or two (or
three) ago without taking great notice.

Have you read this one? I don't know if it's one-off or
representative of his "later"(?) style, but it's a total hoot.

Perhaps I've contracted laughing sickness and hadn't noticed before...

Say, how much does the author get per book in royalties? It says
inside the back cover that Pratchett's books have sold over 65 million
copies. Might be enough to loosen a fellow's cynical sense of humor,
eh?
--
What is trumps what should be, and what we expect, every time.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2010-11-18 20:26:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
Alas, you've become one of THEM.
Hmmm... you mean, the shove? The crab bucket? Not likely, they'd
evict me in an instant, prolly unscrew my head first.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
The Pratchetts I have tried have
been... mildly amusing, at best, sorta like HHGTTG.
I'm sure that I've read Pratchett books before, a decade or two (or
three) ago without taking great notice.
Have you read this one? I don't know if it's one-off or
representative of his "later"(?) style, but it's a total hoot.
I haven't read that particular one. Having tried three separate
Pratchetts plus one short story, I doubt my taste's going to change.
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Perhaps I've contracted laughing sickness and hadn't noticed before...
Say, how much does the author get per book in royalties? It says
inside the back cover that Pratchett's books have sold over 65 million
copies.
If I assume all of those were paperbacks (which they weren't, but I'm
lowballing here) and that his royalty percentage is the same as mine
(which it almost certainly isn't), that'd still be about (pinky in
mouth) 30... MILLION... dollars.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-18 20:41:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
Alas, you've become one of THEM.
Hmmm... you mean, the shove? The crab bucket? Not likely, they'd
evict me in an instant, prolly unscrew my head first.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
The Pratchetts I have tried have
been... mildly amusing, at best, sorta like HHGTTG.
I'm sure that I've read Pratchett books before, a decade or two (or
three) ago without taking great notice.
Have you read this one? I don't know if it's one-off or
representative of his "later"(?) style, but it's a total hoot.
I haven't read that particular one. Having tried three separate
Pratchetts plus one short story, I doubt my taste's going to change.
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Perhaps I've contracted laughing sickness and hadn't noticed before...
Say, how much does the author get per book in royalties? It says
inside the back cover that Pratchett's books have sold over 65 million
copies.
If I assume all of those were paperbacks (which they weren't, but I'm
lowballing here) and that his royalty percentage is the same as mine
(which it almost certainly isn't), that'd still be about (pinky in
mouth) 30... MILLION... dollars.
I'd say that would allow a fellow to pull the rod out of his arse and
have some fun, eh? <g>
--
What is trumps what should be, and what we expect, every time.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2010-11-18 20:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
If I assume all of those were paperbacks (which they weren't, but I'm
lowballing here) and that his royalty percentage is the same as mine
(which it almost certainly isn't), that'd still be about (pinky in
mouth) 30... MILLION... dollars.
I'd say that would allow a fellow to pull the rod out of his arse and
have some fun, eh?<g>
I certainly would like to have the opportunity to find out.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Chris
2010-11-18 23:40:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
   Alas, you've become one of THEM.
Hmmm... you mean, the shove?  The crab bucket?  Not likely, they'd
evict me in an instant, prolly unscrew my head first.
The Pratchetts I have tried have
been... mildly amusing, at best, sorta like HHGTTG.
I'm sure that I've read Pratchett books before, a decade or two (or
three) ago without taking great notice.
Have you read this one?  I don't know if it's one-off or
representative of his "later"(?) style, but it's a total hoot.
   I haven't read that particular one. Having tried three separate
Pratchetts plus one short story, I doubt my taste's going to change.
Perhaps I've contracted laughing sickness and hadn't noticed before...
Say, how much does the author get per book in royalties?  It says
inside the back cover that Pratchett's books have sold over 65 million
copies.
   If I assume all of those were paperbacks (which they weren't, but I'm
lowballing here) and that his royalty percentage is the same as mine
(which it almost certainly isn't), that'd still be about (pinky in
mouth) 30... MILLION... dollars.
I'd say that would allow a fellow to pull the rod out of his arse and
have some fun, eh? <g>
Unless he's the kind of guy whose idea of fun is having a rod up his
arse.

Chris
Post by Norm D. Plumber
--
What is trumps what should be, and what we expect, every time.
Moriarty
2010-11-18 21:57:17 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 19, 7:26 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
<snip>
Say, how much does the author get per book in royalties?  It says
inside the back cover that Pratchett's books have sold over 65 million
copies.
        If I assume all of those were paperbacks (which they weren't, but I'm
lowballing here) and that his royalty percentage is the same as mine
(which it almost certainly isn't), that'd still be about (pinky in
mouth) 30... MILLION... dollars.
“Isn’t it nice to fall backwards into a a pile of money the size of St
Pauls Cathedral?” - Terry Pratchett to JK Rowling (allegedly)

-Moriarty
Kurt Busiek
2010-11-18 23:18:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Moriarty
On Nov 19, 7:26 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
If I assume all of those were paperbacks (which they weren't, but I'm
lowballing here) and that his royalty percentage is the same as mine
(which it almost certainly isn't), that'd still be about (pinky in
mouth) 30... MILLION... dollars.
“Isn’t it nice to fall backwards into a a pile of money the size of St
Pauls Cathedral?” - Terry Pratchett to JK Rowling (allegedly)
"I like to dive into it like a porpoise! I like to burrow through it
like a gopher! I like to toss it up into the air and let it hit me on
the head!" — Scrooge McDuck (often)

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Joel Olson
2010-11-19 16:52:16 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 19, 7:26 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
If I assume all of those were paperbacks (which they weren't, but I'm
lowballing here) and that his royalty percentage is the same as mine
(which it almost certainly isn't), that'd still be about (pinky in
mouth) 30... MILLION... dollars.
“Isn’t it nice to fall backwards into a a pile of money the size of St
Pauls Cathedral?” - Terry Pratchett to JK Rowling (allegedly)
"I like to dive into it like a porpoise! I like to burrow through it like
a gopher! I like to toss it up into the air and let it hit me on the
head!" — Scrooge McDuck (often)
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
And he had very little paper money. More like kilotons of gold coin.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2010-11-19 17:16:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joel Olson
Post by Kurt Busiek
On Nov 19, 7:26 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
If I assume all of those were paperbacks (which they weren't, but I'm
lowballing here) and that his royalty percentage is the same as mine
(which it almost certainly isn't), that'd still be about (pinky in
mouth) 30... MILLION... dollars.
“Isn’t it nice to fall backwards into a a pile of money the size of St
Pauls Cathedral?” - Terry Pratchett to JK Rowling (allegedly)
"I like to dive into it like a porpoise! I like to burrow through it
like a gopher! I like to toss it up into the air and let it hit me on
the head!" — Scrooge McDuck (often)
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
And he had very little paper money. More like kilotons of gold coin.
I always wondered just what the floors of those vaults would have to be
made of to support the oceans of gold.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Kurt Busiek
2010-11-19 17:27:50 UTC
Permalink
On 2010-11-19 09:16:19 -0800, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Joel Olson
Post by Kurt Busiek
On Nov 19, 7:26 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
If I assume all of those were paperbacks (which they weren't, but I'm
lowballing here) and that his royalty percentage is the same as mine
(which it almost certainly isn't), that'd still be about (pinky in
mouth) 30... MILLION... dollars.
“Isn’t it nice to fall backwards into a a pile of money the size of St
Pauls Cathedral?” - Terry Pratchett to JK Rowling (allegedly)
"I like to dive into it like a porpoise! I like to burrow through it
like a gopher! I like to toss it up into the air and let it hit me on
the head!" — Scrooge McDuck (often)
And he had very little paper money. More like kilotons of gold coin.
I always wondered just what the floors of those vaults would have to
be made of to support the oceans of gold.
Floors? It was just one giant cubical structure, sitting on top of a
mountain (er, Killmotor Hill), so the money bin was resting on solid
rock. It had giant dipsticks that went all the way down, measuring the
height of the pile in millions.

The _walls_ of the thing, now, they had to be something special...

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Cryptoengineer
2010-11-19 18:17:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kurt Busiek
On 2010-11-19 09:16:19 -0800, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Joel Olson
Post by Kurt Busiek
On Nov 19, 7:26 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
If I assume all of those were paperbacks (which they weren't, but
I'm lowballing here) and that his royalty percentage is the same
as mine (which it almost certainly isn't), that'd still be about
(pinky in mouth) 30... MILLION... dollars.
“Isn’t it nice to fall backwards into a a pile of money the
size of St Pauls Cathedral?” - Terry Pratchett to JK Rowling
(allegedly)
"I like to dive into it like a porpoise! I like to burrow through
it like a gopher! I like to toss it up into the air and let it hit
me on the head!" — Scrooge McDuck (often)
And he had very little paper money. More like kilotons of gold coin.
I always wondered just what the floors of those vaults would have to
be made of to support the oceans of gold.
Floors? It was just one giant cubical structure, sitting on top of a
mountain (er, Killmotor Hill), so the money bin was resting on solid
rock. It had giant dipsticks that went all the way down, measuring the
height of the pile in millions.
The _walls_ of the thing, now, they had to be something special...
Wikipedia lists several numbers for S McDucks' worth, but the money bin
is said to be '3 cubic acres'. what that means is far from clear, but I
won't let that stop me :-) An acre occupies 4047 sq m, which fits in a
square about 64 m on a side.

3x 64^3 = 786,432 m^3

I'll note that its estimated that if all the gold that has ever been
mined were melted into a single cube, it would be about 19 m on a side.

19^3 = 6859 m^3

Even allowing for the non-solid packing of the gold coins in the bin, it
seems clear that the walls must be 10s of meters thick.

pt
Kurt Busiek
2010-11-19 18:31:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Kurt Busiek
On 2010-11-19 09:16:19 -0800, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Joel Olson
Post by Kurt Busiek
On Nov 19, 7:26 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
If I assume all of those were paperbacks (which they weren't, but
I'm lowballing here) and that his royalty percentage is the same
as mine (which it almost certainly isn't), that'd still be about
(pinky in mouth) 30... MILLION... dollars.
“Isn’t it nice to fall backwards into a a pile of money the
size of St Pauls Cathedral?” - Terry Pratchett to JK Rowling
(allegedly)
"I like to dive into it like a porpoise! I like to burrow through
it like a gopher! I like to toss it up into the air and let it hit
me on the head!" — Scrooge McDuck (often)
And he had very little paper money. More like kilotons of gold coin.
I always wondered just what the floors of those vaults would
have to
be made of to support the oceans of gold.
Floors? It was just one giant cubical structure, sitting on top of a
mountain (er, Killmotor Hill), so the money bin was resting on solid
rock. It had giant dipsticks that went all the way down, measuring the
height of the pile in millions.
The _walls_ of the thing, now, they had to be something special...
Wikipedia lists several numbers for S McDucks' worth, but the money bin
is said to be '3 cubic acres'. what that means is far from clear, but I
won't let that stop me :-) An acre occupies 4047 sq m, which fits in a
square about 64 m on a side.
3x 64^3 = 786,432 m^3
I'll note that its estimated that if all the gold that has ever been
mined were melted into a single cube, it would be about 19 m on a side.
19^3 = 6859 m^3
Even allowing for the non-solid packing of the gold coins in the bin, it
seems clear that the walls must be 10s of meters thick.
There's more gold in the world of the Ducks. Heck, they've got a whole
extra state, and plenty of extra countries, too.

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Wayne Throop
2010-11-19 21:54:55 UTC
Permalink
: Kurt Busiek <***@busiek.com>
: I'll note that its estimated that if all the gold that has ever been
: mined were melted into a single cube, it would be about 19 m on a
: side.
:
: 19^3 = 6859 m^3

Hm. Unless I've misdone arithmetics or lookups, that seems
to be about 130,000 tons, or 6 trillion dollars. I'm not sure
if I think there "ought to be" more, or less, gold than that irl.

Hm. Wikipedia gives figures of 165,000 tonnes and > US$5 trillion,
so I suppose that's semi-correct.


Wayne Throop ***@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Kurt Busiek
2010-11-19 22:07:17 UTC
Permalink
: I'll note that its estimated ...
Hm. Unless I've misdone arithmetics or lookups,
At the very least, you're responding to Cryptoengineer, not me.

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Robert A. Woodward
2010-11-19 19:23:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joel Olson
On Nov 19, 7:26 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
If I assume all of those were paperbacks (which they weren't, but I'm
lowballing here) and that his royalty percentage is the same as mine
(which it almost certainly isn't), that'd still be about (pinky in
mouth) 30... MILLION... dollars.
“Isn’t it nice to fall backwards into a a pile of money the size of St
Pauls Cathedral?” - Terry Pratchett to JK Rowling (allegedly)
"I like to dive into it like a porpoise! I like to burrow through it like
a gopher! I like to toss it up into the air and let it hit me on the
head!" — Scrooge McDuck (often)
kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
And he had very little paper money. More like kilotons of gold coin.
? The pages I have of Scrooge's money bin clearly show silver
coinage not gold coinage, with a few scattered bills (true, I only
have reprints, but they are high quality reprints).
--
Robert Woodward <***@drizzle.com>
<http://www.drizzle.com/~robertaw>
Default User
2010-11-18 21:19:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Have you read this one? I don't know if it's one-off or
representative of his "later"(?) style, but it's a total hoot.
That's one from the meta-series "Discworld". It has several intersecting
sub-series. If you'd be interested, you might try some of the others. I like
the ones featuring Death, and The City Watch. Wikipedia provides a list.



Brian
--
Day 652 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project.
Current music playing: "Fall Behind Me" (The Donnas)
Moriarty
2010-11-18 21:54:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Default User
Have you read this one?  I don't know if it's one-off or
representative of his "later"(?) style, but it's a total hoot.
That's one from the meta-series "Discworld". It has several intersecting
sub-series. If you'd be interested, you might try some of the others. I like
the ones featuring Death, and The City Watch. Wikipedia provides a list.
Or you could try the Discworld reading order guide. Now updated to
include _Unseen Academicals_, but not _I Shall Wear Midnight_

Loading Image...

-Moriarty
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-18 23:37:11 UTC
Permalink
Say, how much does the author get per book in royalties?  It says
inside the back cover that Pratchett's books have sold over 65 million
copies.  Might be enough to loosen a fellow's cynical sense of humor,
eh?
PTerry has himself said that he had to change banks because he had
filled the first one up...

He was able to donate $1 million for alzheimers research on short
notice.

I don't think he is wonddering where his next meal is coming from...
Gerry Quinn
2010-11-19 03:33:50 UTC
Permalink
In article <03f6d3f4-8360-4991-813a-
Post by Shawn Wilson
He was able to donate $1 million for alzheimers research on short
notice.
I don't think he is wonddering where his next meal is coming from...
Alas, those sentences in juxtaposition...

- Gerry Quinn
Default User
2010-11-18 20:13:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
Alas, you've become one of THEM. The Pratchetts I have tried have been...
mildly amusing, at best, sorta like HHGTTG.
Of the Discworld books that I've read, I only recall two actual laugh
moments. One was the highwayman who gets turned into a pumpkin but Ridcully,
and the incident with the angels coming for the Little Match Girl. But I
don't really read them for the humor either, although the generally light
tone is pleasing.



Brian
--
Day 652 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project.
Current music playing: "California Song" (Brooke White)
Cryptoengineer
2010-11-18 20:33:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works. You might want
to jump back to the start of the 'City Watch' subseries: "Guards! Guards!".
For the Funny, try 'Moving Pictures'.

pt
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-18 20:44:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works. You might want
to jump back to the start of the 'City Watch' subseries: "Guards! Guards!".
For the Funny, try 'Moving Pictures'.
Really, eh? I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in reserve
and continue primarily reading books that make me think instead of
just laugh, though there are times when it's good to have a source of
fun.
--
What is trumps what should be, and what we expect, every time.
Cryptoengineer
2010-11-18 21:22:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1
was hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10
pages without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there
laughing like a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe
a 37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works. You might
want to jump back to the start of the 'City Watch' subseries: "Guards!
Guards!". For the Funny, try 'Moving Pictures'.
Really, eh? I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in reserve
and continue primarily reading books that make me think instead of
just laugh, though there are times when it's good to have a source of
fun.
Sir Terry has got that too. "Night Watch" is often considered his best.
It received the Prometheus Award. I think quite highly the recent Lipwig
books; Going Postal and Making Money.

pt
Will in New Haven
2010-11-18 23:17:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works. You might want
to jump back to the start of the 'City Watch' subseries: "Guards! Guards!".
For the Funny, try 'Moving Pictures'.
Really, eh?  I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in reserve
and continue primarily reading books that make me think instead of
just laugh, though there are times when it's good to have a source of
fun.
You may have accidentally hit on the right reading strategy for
Prachett. I read one of his books long ago and loved it, read two more
in rapid succession and thought I must have been deluded the first
time. Since then, I have found that i can read one of his books every
year or so and enjoy it immensely.

--
Will in New Haven
Cryptoengineer
2010-11-19 02:34:30 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 18, 6:17 pm, Will in New Haven
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works. You might want
to jump back to the start of the 'City Watch' subseries: "Guards! Guards!".
For the Funny, try 'Moving Pictures'.
Really, eh?  I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in reserve
and continue primarily reading books that make me think instead of
just laugh, though there are times when it's good to have a source of
fun.
You may have accidentally hit on the right reading strategy for
Prachett. I read one of his books long ago and loved it, read two more
in rapid succession and thought I must have been deluded the first
time. Since then, I have found that i can read one of his books every
year or so and enjoy it immensely.
Interesting. He used to bring out roughly two books a year, and more
recently slowed down to one. Those of us who got in early read them at
roughly the pace you suggest.

Personally, one weekend back in 1983 I visited the SF Shop in
Greenwich Village, picked up a few books, and the pulps. I went to a
Burger King for lunch (I was much poorer than, and had a stronger
stomach) and flipped through the magazines while eating. I read a
review of 'The Color of Magic' in one of them, and after eating walked
back to the SF Shop, and got a copy. Haven't looked back since;
Pratchett is one of a *very* few authors who are buy-the-hardback-on-
sight for me.

pt
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-19 07:29:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
On Nov 18, 6:17 pm, Will in New Haven
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works. You might want
to jump back to the start of the 'City Watch' subseries: "Guards! Guards!".
For the Funny, try 'Moving Pictures'.
Really, eh?  I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in reserve
and continue primarily reading books that make me think instead of
just laugh, though there are times when it's good to have a source of
fun.
You may have accidentally hit on the right reading strategy for
Prachett. I read one of his books long ago and loved it, read two more
in rapid succession and thought I must have been deluded the first
time. Since then, I have found that i can read one of his books every
year or so and enjoy it immensely.
Interesting. He used to bring out roughly two books a year, and more
recently slowed down to one. Those of us who got in early read them at
roughly the pace you suggest.
Personally, one weekend back in 1983 I visited the SF Shop in
Greenwich Village, picked up a few books, and the pulps. I went to a
Burger King for lunch (I was much poorer than, and had a stronger
stomach) and flipped through the magazines while eating. I read a
review of 'The Color of Magic' in one of them, and after eating walked
back to the SF Shop, and got a copy. Haven't looked back since;
Pratchett is one of a *very* few authors who are buy-the-hardback-on-
sight for me.
pt
I'm sure his stock broker thanks you. <G>
--
What is trumps what should be, and what we expect, every time.
Cryptoengineer
2010-11-19 13:34:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Cryptoengineer
On Nov 18, 6:17 pm, Will in New Haven
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on
page 1 was hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10
pages without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there
laughing like a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book,
maybe a 37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works. You
might want to jump back to the start of the 'City Watch'
subseries: "Guards! Guards!". For the Funny, try 'Moving
Pictures'.
Really, eh?  I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in
reserve and continue primarily reading books that make me think
instead of just laugh, though there are times when it's good to
have a source of fun.
You may have accidentally hit on the right reading strategy for
Prachett. I read one of his books long ago and loved it, read two
more in rapid succession and thought I must have been deluded the
first time. Since then, I have found that i can read one of his
books every year or so and enjoy it immensely.
Interesting. He used to bring out roughly two books a year, and more
recently slowed down to one. Those of us who got in early read them at
roughly the pace you suggest.
Personally, one weekend back in 1983 I visited the SF Shop in
Greenwich Village, picked up a few books, and the pulps. I went to a
Burger King for lunch (I was much poorer than, and had a stronger
stomach) and flipped through the magazines while eating. I read a
review of 'The Color of Magic' in one of them, and after eating walked
back to the SF Shop, and got a copy. Haven't looked back since;
Pratchett is one of a *very* few authors who are buy-the-hardback-on-
sight for me.
pt
I'm sure his stock broker thanks you. <G>
I regard it as fair compensation for value received.

pt
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-19 18:34:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Cryptoengineer
On Nov 18, 6:17 pm, Will in New Haven
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on
page 1 was hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10
pages without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there
laughing like a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book,
maybe a 37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works. You
might want to jump back to the start of the 'City Watch'
subseries: "Guards! Guards!". For the Funny, try 'Moving
Pictures'.
Really, eh?  I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in
reserve and continue primarily reading books that make me think
instead of just laugh, though there are times when it's good to
have a source of fun.
You may have accidentally hit on the right reading strategy for
Prachett. I read one of his books long ago and loved it, read two
more in rapid succession and thought I must have been deluded the
first time. Since then, I have found that i can read one of his
books every year or so and enjoy it immensely.
Interesting. He used to bring out roughly two books a year, and more
recently slowed down to one. Those of us who got in early read them at
roughly the pace you suggest.
Personally, one weekend back in 1983 I visited the SF Shop in
Greenwich Village, picked up a few books, and the pulps. I went to a
Burger King for lunch (I was much poorer than, and had a stronger
stomach) and flipped through the magazines while eating. I read a
review of 'The Color of Magic' in one of them, and after eating walked
back to the SF Shop, and got a copy. Haven't looked back since;
Pratchett is one of a *very* few authors who are buy-the-hardback-on-
sight for me.
pt
I'm sure his stock broker thanks you. <G>
I regard it as fair compensation for value received.
pt
I suspect (without knowing for sure, of course) that in fact you do
not consider it "fair compensation" but rather consider it yet another
chance to scarf up a helluvabargain[1], otherwise it would be in the
evaluate-on-sight category rather than buy-on-sight. <g>

Don't get me wrong on this, don't even consider the possibility of
getting the wrong idea here please, I do not bedgrudge Sir Terry a
penny of his well-got-gains. Everyone ought to be doing something
equally worth-creating imo, even if it's just baking a damn good pie.

That there is a market such as it is, and stock-brokers such as they
are... those are what one might call statutory requirements, and that
we are not all sitting in our studies smoking whatever we fancy and
farting hugely without embarassment is entirely because we allow the
hammer to be real.

[1] something worth much more to you than the money it costs
--
The world is as it is because if it wasn't it would be as it is.
Cryptoengineer
2010-11-19 19:13:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Cryptoengineer
On Nov 18, 6:17 pm, Will in New Haven
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on
page 1 was hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about
10 pages without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting
there laughing like a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great
book, maybe a 37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works. You
might want to jump back to the start of the 'City Watch'
subseries: "Guards! Guards!". For the Funny, try 'Moving
Pictures'.
Really, eh?  I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in
reserve and continue primarily reading books that make me think
instead of just laugh, though there are times when it's good to
have a source of fun.
You may have accidentally hit on the right reading strategy for
Prachett. I read one of his books long ago and loved it, read two
more in rapid succession and thought I must have been deluded the
first time. Since then, I have found that i can read one of his
books every year or so and enjoy it immensely.
Interesting. He used to bring out roughly two books a year, and more
recently slowed down to one. Those of us who got in early read them
at roughly the pace you suggest.
Personally, one weekend back in 1983 I visited the SF Shop in
Greenwich Village, picked up a few books, and the pulps. I went to a
Burger King for lunch (I was much poorer than, and had a stronger
stomach) and flipped through the magazines while eating. I read a
review of 'The Color of Magic' in one of them, and after eating
walked back to the SF Shop, and got a copy. Haven't looked back
since; Pratchett is one of a *very* few authors who are
buy-the-hardback-on- sight for me.
pt
I'm sure his stock broker thanks you. <G>
I regard it as fair compensation for value received.
pt
I suspect (without knowing for sure, of course) that in fact you do
not consider it "fair compensation" but rather consider it yet another
chance to scarf up a helluvabargain[1], otherwise it would be in the
evaluate-on-sight category rather than buy-on-sight. <g>
Sometimes more of a bargain than you think. Go to www.abebooks.com, and
look at the current prices for "Once More with Footnotes". Boggle.

I have a copy, bought new for the regular price ($24.95, iirc).

pt
Kurt Busiek
2010-11-19 19:27:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Sometimes more of a bargain than you think. Go to www.abebooks.com, and
look at the current prices for "Once More with Footnotes". Boggle.
I have a copy, bought new for the regular price ($24.95, iirc).
Yow. I've got one too.

Glad I spotted it before that happened. Glad I pointed it out to LWE, too...

kdb
--
Visit http://www.busiek.com -- for all your Busiek needs!
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-19 21:06:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Cryptoengineer
On Nov 18, 6:17 pm, Will in New Haven
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on
page 1 was hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about
10 pages without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting
there laughing like a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great
book, maybe a 37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works. You
might want to jump back to the start of the 'City Watch'
subseries: "Guards! Guards!". For the Funny, try 'Moving
Pictures'.
Really, eh?  I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in
reserve and continue primarily reading books that make me think
instead of just laugh, though there are times when it's good to
have a source of fun.
You may have accidentally hit on the right reading strategy for
Prachett. I read one of his books long ago and loved it, read two
more in rapid succession and thought I must have been deluded the
first time. Since then, I have found that i can read one of his
books every year or so and enjoy it immensely.
Interesting. He used to bring out roughly two books a year, and more
recently slowed down to one. Those of us who got in early read them
at roughly the pace you suggest.
Personally, one weekend back in 1983 I visited the SF Shop in
Greenwich Village, picked up a few books, and the pulps. I went to a
Burger King for lunch (I was much poorer than, and had a stronger
stomach) and flipped through the magazines while eating. I read a
review of 'The Color of Magic' in one of them, and after eating
walked back to the SF Shop, and got a copy. Haven't looked back
since; Pratchett is one of a *very* few authors who are
buy-the-hardback-on- sight for me.
pt
I'm sure his stock broker thanks you. <G>
I regard it as fair compensation for value received.
pt
I suspect (without knowing for sure, of course) that in fact you do
not consider it "fair compensation" but rather consider it yet another
chance to scarf up a helluvabargain[1], otherwise it would be in the
evaluate-on-sight category rather than buy-on-sight. <g>
Sometimes more of a bargain than you think. Go to www.abebooks.com, and
look at the current prices for "Once More with Footnotes". Boggle.
I have a copy, bought new for the regular price ($24.95, iirc).
pt
Is it a good book? I haven't read it, just wondering.

Back when my dad was alive, you could ask him about anything he owned,
maybe some crescent wrench, and he'd reply something like "Yeah, I
bought that at a flea-market in Cincinnatti in 1954, from a guy named
Bill Becker. Gave him a nickel for it." And you could go to the
store and buy a brand new one just like it for $12.95 or whatever.
And they would both take off a 1/2" nut just like the cheap Chinese
ones you can buy brand new for $2.99. It's a wonder, ain't it? The
really weird thing was that when you could walk down to the store and
buy a new one for $12.95 he'd convince some guy that it was worth $16
and sell it to him for $14 and the guy would walk away with a big
smile on his face, and even stranger, the next time you'd run into the
guy he'd still be happy about the bargain, even if he'd been to the
store since. I don't have a clue what any of that shit means, I just
want to get the goddamn 1/2" nut off even if I have to cut it off with
a torch.

I liked _Unseen_Academicals_. It was like reading something I might
have written myself if I had more than half a clue and could write
actual English. Beyond that, hell, screw the prices, it's just
money... wizards don't have much use for money, and if they need some
they can take it out of the big pot by the door[1].


[1] if you think that's "only" a metaphor, stay the hell away from
stock brokers.
--
The world is as it is because if it wasn't it would be as it is.
Cryptoengineer
2010-11-19 21:27:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Post by Cryptoengineer
On Nov 18, 6:17 pm, Will in New Haven
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on
page 1 was hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than
about 10 pages without getting "a look" from my wife for
sitting there laughing like a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great
book, maybe a 37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works.
You might want to jump back to the start of the 'City Watch'
subseries: "Guards! Guards!". For the Funny, try 'Moving
Pictures'.
Really, eh?  I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in
reserve and continue primarily reading books that make me
think instead of just laugh, though there are times when it's
good to have a source of fun.
You may have accidentally hit on the right reading strategy for
Prachett. I read one of his books long ago and loved it, read
two more in rapid succession and thought I must have been
deluded the first time. Since then, I have found that i can read
one of his books every year or so and enjoy it immensely.
Interesting. He used to bring out roughly two books a year, and
more recently slowed down to one. Those of us who got in early
read them at roughly the pace you suggest.
Personally, one weekend back in 1983 I visited the SF Shop in
Greenwich Village, picked up a few books, and the pulps. I went to
a Burger King for lunch (I was much poorer than, and had a
stronger stomach) and flipped through the magazines while eating.
I read a review of 'The Color of Magic' in one of them, and after
eating walked back to the SF Shop, and got a copy. Haven't looked
back since; Pratchett is one of a *very* few authors who are
buy-the-hardback-on- sight for me.
pt
I'm sure his stock broker thanks you. <G>
I regard it as fair compensation for value received.
pt
I suspect (without knowing for sure, of course) that in fact you do
not consider it "fair compensation" but rather consider it yet
another chance to scarf up a helluvabargain[1], otherwise it would
be in the evaluate-on-sight category rather than buy-on-sight. <g>
Sometimes more of a bargain than you think. Go to www.abebooks.com,
and look at the current prices for "Once More with Footnotes". Boggle.
I have a copy, bought new for the regular price ($24.95, iirc).
pt
Is it a good book? I haven't read it, just wondering.
It's an anthology of early and/or very hard to obtain writing by
Pratchett, with some new material, including some Discworld stories. It
was printed by NESFA for the 2004 WorldCon, and had a limited print run.
Pratchett has not given permission for further reprints, hence the
prices.

Is it good? Well, I liked it, but it's just about the last place to
start someone on Pratchett.

pt
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-19 07:28:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Cryptoengineer
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works. You might want
to jump back to the start of the 'City Watch' subseries: "Guards! Guards!".
For the Funny, try 'Moving Pictures'.
Really, eh?  I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in reserve
and continue primarily reading books that make me think instead of
just laugh, though there are times when it's good to have a source of
fun.
You may have accidentally hit on the right reading strategy for
Prachett.
So, anything I do right is by accident, hey? I'd say that's just
about precisely correct. <g>
Post by Will in New Haven
I read one of his books long ago and loved it, read two more
in rapid succession and thought I must have been deluded the first
time. Since then, I have found that i can read one of his books every
year or so and enjoy it immensely.
Pratchett has a fascinating way of twiggling the words a bit and
sneaking in a dollop of profundity once one's been distracted. I'll
take a peek at a couple of his non-discworld books next time I'm at
the library (I don't yet have a grip on how he does what he does), but
I find his style infectious and don't wish to become a Pratchett
zombie. Once the nanomites have become ensconced, one book a year or
so may, as you suggest, be adequate maintenance dosage.

In the meantime I'm reading Gould's follow-on to _Jumper_ and think
it's fairly terrible cannon-fodder, but that's probably from watching
his fingers leave his hands as he does the wavium... he could still
possibly save it (though I'll be very surprised if he does).
--
What is trumps what should be, and what we expect, every time.
Wayne Throop
2010-11-18 23:17:54 UTC
Permalink
: "Norm D. Plumber" <nom-de-***@non.com>
: I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in reserve and continue
: primarily reading books that make me think instead of just laugh,
: though there are times when it's good to have a source of fun.

Thinking and laughing aren't mutually exclusive.
In this case quite the reverse; the sort of humor Pratchett engages in is
usually somewhat thought provoking in a subversive thinking-out-of-the-box
sort of way.


Wayne Throop ***@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-19 07:33:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Throop
: I think I'm mostly going to keep Sir Pratchett in reserve and continue
: primarily reading books that make me think instead of just laugh,
: though there are times when it's good to have a source of fun.
Thinking and laughing aren't mutually exclusive.
In this case quite the reverse; the sort of humor Pratchett engages in is
usually somewhat thought provoking in a subversive thinking-out-of-the-box
sort of way.
I agree completely. When I was a boy, I loved malted milk balls,
couldn't get enough of them. Then on a day-trip I was allowed to
spend my allowance as I wished and spent it all on malted milk balls.
The return trip took us over winding mountain roads, and by the time
we arrived at home I was somewhat ill... for three days. I'll ration
the Pratchett thank you, rather than take the risk.
--
What is trumps what should be, and what we expect, every time.
Leif Roar Moldskred
2010-11-20 10:29:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cryptoengineer
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works.
It's one of his stronger weaker works, though.
--
Leif Roar Moldskred
Robert Bannister
2010-11-20 22:48:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Leif Roar Moldskred
Post by Cryptoengineer
I'll note that this is considered one of his weaker works.
It's one of his stronger weaker works, though.
I would also ask "considered by whom?". I read a couple of unfavourable
criticisms when the book first came out, and that was what determined me
to buy it instead of just reading a library copy as I usually do. I
can't see any "weakness". I suspect it was just book critics trying to
show what they thought they knew about Pratchett's mental health. I
often wonder whether "critics" even read the books they pick apart or
whether they just read someone else's synopsis.
--
Rob Bannister
Will in New Haven
2010-11-18 23:20:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I would wager that she knows you well enough to say "as a loon,"
rather than "like a loon."

--
Will in New Haven
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-19 07:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Will in New Haven
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Okay, so the description of the Tyrant and his democracy on page 1 was
hilarious, anybody can get lucky.
By page 12 or so the cute was beginning to pall.
By page 20 the clever barstid had captured me completely.
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I would wager that she knows you well enough to say "as a loon,"
rather than "like a loon."
It's worse than that, she knows me well enough not to say that and, by
so restraining herself, avoid a painful exorcism to remove the
influence of some departed spirit who thinks it can play word games
with me and hope for anything more pleasant than a painful exorcism.
<g>
--
What is trumps what should be, and what we expect, every time.
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-21 21:50:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
I think one the average I was unable to read more than about 10 pages
without getting "a look" from my wife for sitting there laughing like
a loon.
I'd give it about a 6 on a scale of 10 for being a great book, maybe a
37 on a scale of 10 for being a fun read.
Ah, and this isn't even one of the really good Discworld novels...


'Cause I feel like it-

Commentary on reading Discworld novels I made in an earlier post [now
a little dated, and not updated]-


The Diskworld novels are not a series as such- they don't have to be
read in
any order as each book is self contained. But... There are several
(five)
sets of characters that are repeatedly revisited. The only continuity
is
within a set, not between sets. They have almost no cross-continuity
(except when they do).

The sets are (in publication and chronological order within each
set)-


Rincewind: The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Sourcery, Eric,
Interesting Times, The Last Continent, The Last Hero (only technically
a
Rincewind book, illustrated), [The Science of the Diskworld I-III
(quasi
non-fiction)]. Most of the early books are Rincewind. They are
intended as
a parody of fantasy writing and tropes and only manage to be somewhat
amusing. Start with these and you'll wonder what all the fuss is
about and
almost certainly won't have the endurance to get to the good stuff.
Interesting Times is the best of the lot, the rest of the fiction is
forgettable.


Death: Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather, Thief of Time.
Reaper Man
is the first of the really good ones, start there within the Death
books.
Read Mort last, it's early and very weak compared to the others.


Lancre: Equal Rites, Wyrd Sisters, Witches Abroad, Lords and Ladies,
Maskerade, Carpe Jugulem. The Lancre books really start with Wyrd
Sisters,
start there. Equal Rites is something of an approximation and new
characters are introduced and one is somewhat re-tooled for the next
one.
The last two are relatively weak. Wyrd Sisters and Lords and Ladies
are a
pair that should be read together and ideally sequentially, though
technically Witches Abroad comes between them. WA describes a side
trip
that can be excised without harm.


Ankh-Morpork Watch: Guards! Guards!, Men at Arms, Feet of Clay,
Jingo, The
Fifth Elephant, Night Watch, Thud!. The best series of the lot, and
the one
that made the Diskworld what it is. Start at the beginning with G!
G!.


Tiffany Aching: The Wee Free Men, Hat Full of Sky, Wintersmith. [I
Shall Wear Midnight] A relatively recent series written for
children. Still Diskworld and still
good though.


One-shots: Moving Pictures, Pyramids, Small Gods, The Truth, Going
Postal,
The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents [Unseen Academicals].
The first two are relatively weak, the others good to excellent. The
Truth is my favorite Diskworld novel.


Basically, skip most Rincewind, Mort and Equal Rites and all of the
rest are
good to excellent.



Shawn's guide to proper nounds on the Disk (ie important people and
places)-


Places-


Diskworld- a flat (indeed, disk shaped....) world supported on the
backs of four rather large elephants which themsleves stand on the
back of a giant turtle (not tortoise, turtles are sea creatures, not
land creatures like tortoises. It has fins rather than feet.) named
the great A'Tuin, which swims through space. Where it's going, and
why no one knows. We know it reproduces by spawning little turtles
with their own little elephants and little disks. We don't know
whether it's male, female, androgynous, or other, or specifically how
it reproduces. Despite the differences, the Diskworld is basically a
satire of our own. (note- satire makes fun of reality, parody makes
fun of art forms. The Daily Show is both a parody of a new program
and a satire of reality. Sound smart at parties...). Note- the
oceans run off the sides and disappear, presumably reappearing
somewhere to continue the cycle.


Ankh-Morpork- the largest city on the Disk, but not the only large
city. Basically it's a satire of London around the early 19th
century. It was long ago the capital of an empire, but the empire is
gone. Now it is merely an independent city-state among a number of
others. It used to have a king (even after the empire), but the last
King (Lorenzo the Kind, said to love children, it what sense is
unclear...) was killed by Watch Commander Suffer-Not-Injustice Vimes
(aka Stoneface Vimes, modeled on Oliver Cromwell) as a public service
in response to his excesses. Since then it has been ruled by an
official called the Patrician, chosen by the city's nobles and guild
leaders, who rules until killed or removed. The city is built around
the Tower or Art of the Unseen University, and is a twin city
composed
of wealthy Ankh and poor but vibrant (read- dangerous, even in
daylight...) Morpork. Most books revolve around Ankh-Morpork.


Unseen University is the greatest institute of magical instruction on
the Disk.


The Sto Plains- the region of the Disk occupied by Ankh-Morpork,
basically modeled on Europe culturally speaking. Note the geography
of the Disk is unrelated to Earth geography, though the societies are
similar. Notable other cities include fashionable Quirm (modeled on
Paris), and exotic Genua (modeled loosely on New Orleans). The major
economic activity of the Sto Plains is growing 50 varieties of
cabbage
(note, a great many not-cabbage-like vegetables are in fact related
to
cabbage, like broccoli, lettuce, onions, etc), which is to say
farming
in general.


XXXX- The Last Continent, strongly modeled on Australia. Visited by
Rincewind in .The Last Continent'.


Agatean Empire- Modeled on China. Actively discourages any contact
with the outside world and the whole place is walled off. Gold is as
common there as copper is elsewhere, so travellers from there with
gold coins make the place seem extremely rich. While pretty
prosperous and advanced, it isn't really any richer than the Sto
plains. Visited by Rincewind in 'Interesting Times''. Now ruled by
Cohen the Barbarian and the Silver Horde {until the events in The Last
Hero]


Howondaland- Modeled on deepest Africa.


Klatch- a geographic region not a country, with aspects of pan-Arabia
and India. When Ankh-Morpork fights wars it is generally with
political entities in Klatch.


Uberwald- modeled on eastern Europe, another geographic region rather
than a country. There are vampires and werewolves and mad scientists
and Igors aplenty there.


Ramtop mountains- borders on the Sto Plains and Uberwald. Contains
many small mountain communities and mico-Kingdoms. Culturally an
extension of the Sto Plains.


Lancre- one of those small mountain kingdoms in the Ramtops.


Cor Celesti- giant mountain at the center of the disk that rises like
the needle in a record album. On top of Cor Celesti is
Dunmanifestin,
home of the Gods.


Copperhead- large Dwarven community and the source of most of Ankh-
Morpork's dwarven immigrants. Dwarves in general are very
conservative, but Copperhead less so than others.


People-


Rincewind- First Pratchett hero. A wizard incompetent in his craft
to
the point of never being able to even try to do magic, let alone
trying and failing. Because wizards are born rather than made, he
does have some of the bennies of being a wizard and thus really is
one
despite his incompetence. He has 'Wizzard' written on his hat so
people will know he is one, he sure as hell can't show them his
ability... (yes, it is mispelled...) He does have the virtues of
being able to run fast and beg for his life in every language of the
Disk. (does it go without saying that he is also a coward?). The
Gods of the Disk are real, and pass the time playing games with
humans
as their pawns. Rincewind is the unwitting pawn of 'The
Lady' (presumably the goddess of luck), and as a result frequently
finds himself in situations where the fate of the Disk rests on his
actions. This is also why he has travelled over so much of the Disk.
Accompanied by 'The Luggage' which is a sentient homicidal magical
trunk on legs that protects Rincewind from harm (sometimes) and can
follow him through time and space.


Two-Flower- Naive Agatean tourist and original owner of the Luggage.
Hired Rincewind as his guide.


Cohen the Barbarian (aka Genghis Cohen)- The greatest barbarian hero
in history, now 90 years old and feeling every year of it. Still the
greatest barbarian hero in the world despite his age, because he is
Just That Good.


Silver Horde- a handful of Cohen's equally super-annuated buddies.
They are old men, but they are the best in the world. If they could
be killed someone would have already. Like Cohen they are Just That
Good. Cohen and the Silver Horde conquer the Agatean Empire in
'Interesting Times'. In 'The Last Hero' they infiltrate
Dunmanifestin
to 'return fire to the Gods', mostly because they are upset that the
gods allowed them to grow old. Whether they are alive or dead is
ambiguous now.


Granny Weatherwax- most powerful witch on the Disk. A good witch by
choice, but not by nature. Inhabitant of Lancre.


Nanny Ogg, lifelong friend of Granny Weatherwax, and probably the
'best' witch on the Disk. Almost certainly the best midwife in the
history of the Disk, as the husband of the goddess of Time choose her
to deliver their child.


Magrat Garlick- junior Lancre witch. Has 'modern' views. Competent,
but viewed as silly by Granny and Nanny Ogg. While she is competent,
they are the best...


Verence II, King of Lancre and Magrat's husband after Lords and
Ladies, former professional Fool, his unpleasant training by the
Fool's guild has left him with a serious and bookish nature. As
advisor to the previous King he nearly defeated the triumverate of
Granny Weatherwax, Nanny Ogg and Magrat Garlick. More dangerous than
he appears.


Death- seven foot skeleton in a robe with a scythe. Compassionate
and
good at his job. Sometime oppooent of the Auditors, who hate life
and
want to destroy it. Adoptive grandfather of Susan Sto Helit.


Susan Sto Helit- adopted granddaughter of death (Death adopted her
mother and her father was Death's apprentice for a little while).
Tries to live as normal a life as she can, but being death's
granddaughter does not help.
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-21 22:31:58 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 21, 2:50 pm, Shawn Wilson <***@gmail.com> wrote:


More-

Death of Rats. In Reaper Man Death 'retired' and new Deaths for every
type were created, at the end he took his job back and absorbed all
the new Deaths with two exceptions- the Death of Rats and the Death of
Fleas (not seen since). Death of Rats is a somewhat free spiited
version of Death himself.

Archchancellor Mustrum Ridcully, head of Unseen University. Former
wilderness mage and outdoorsy type, in to physical fitness and
management fads. Singlehandedly changed UUs former system of
promotion over the dead body of you predecessor by being too strong to
kill. In his youth was romantically attached to a young Granny
Weatherwax. His brother (Hughnon) is chief priest of Blind Io, head
of the Gods and thus senior cleric of Ankh-Morpork.

Librarian. A wizard changed by a magical accident into an orang-utan,
suits him well to the point that no one can remember what he was like
before, or even notices that he is an orang-utan. He's an ape, not a
monkey. Don't mistake the two unless you want him to unscrew your
head. Also UUs librarian.

Bursar. UUs bursar. Used to be normal, but got a little nervous and
Ridcully tried to help him with sudden shocks and plenty of healthy
exercise. Now out of touch with reality. Still good with numbers.

Lord Vetinari, supreme ruler of Ankh-Morpork. Cunning, ruthless and
competent enough to make Machiavelli look like a naive Girl Scout.
Libertarian, except in so far as disobeying him or Street Performers
are concerned. For them he has the Scorpion Pit.
Mike Schilling
2010-11-21 22:55:02 UTC
Permalink
"Shawn Wilson" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9a5b503a-eaac-4281-9ddd->
Post by Shawn Wilson
Librarian. A wizard changed by a magical accident into an orang-utan,
suits him well to the point that no one can remember what he was like
before, or even notices that he is an orang-utan. He's an ape, not a
monkey. Don't mistake the two unless you want him to unscrew your
head. Also UUs librarian.
He may appear in the most Discworld books of any character, though Death
might beat him out.
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-22 08:32:36 UTC
Permalink
More-
Thanks for the interesting info.

Someone mentioned that this is the latest discworld novel, so
presumably it's the only one that Nutt appears in to date?

Which one contains Bloody Stupid Johnson?
--
The world is as it is because if it wasn't, it would be as it is.
Robert Carnegie
2010-11-22 11:05:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
More-
Thanks for the interesting info.
Someone mentioned that this is the latest discworld novel, so
presumably it's the only one that Nutt appears in to date?
I haven't read _I Shall Wear Midnight_, but I don't think it's his
thing. His friend (I think?) Mightily Oats is a priest of Om in
_Carpe Jugulum_ (and having trouble living up to the name), but Om
himself appears in _Small Gods_, so you should start there, and
"Carpe" also includes the witches of Lancre who first appear in _Wyrd
Sisters_ except for Granny Weatherwax who turns up earlier in _Equal
Rites_... oh, just read them all, in order of publication.
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Which one contains Bloody Stupid Johnson?
No personal appearances, strictly, but his daft and dangerous
inventions appear in lots of the books.
<http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Bergholt_Stuttley_Johnson>
and
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Technology_of_the_Discworld#Bloody_Stupid_Johnson>
"Terry Pratchett has also known the former British Home Secretary,
Alan Johnson, for a number of years and is believed to have based B.S.
Johnson on him[citation needed]. Cf The Post Office Mail Sorter below
- it is no coincidence that Alan Johnson used to be a postman. B.S.
Johnson's name and abilities are also a parody of Capability Brown and
also, perhaps, a reference to the experimental writer B. S. Johnson.
B.S. Johnson's name and work with organ building is also a reference
to famous organ composer J. S. Bach, who shares Johnson's initials
reversed. Johnson's last name may be a reference to William Allen
Johnson, organ builder and founder of Johnson Organs; he also bears
several similarities with architect Philip Johnson, best known for
building a Glass House. On the same expanse of land that the iconic
House is built are several artistic pieces described by some as
'Johnson follies'."

Possibly worth mentioning in _Wyrd Sisters_, if I remember all the
details, is a piece of theatre stage machinery to produce the effect
of waves at sea in the background, which wasn't a Johnson but
apparently was built by Leonard of Quirm as a prototype aircraft.
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-22 11:48:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Norm D. Plumber
More-
Thanks for the interesting info.
Someone mentioned that this is the latest discworld novel, so
presumably it's the only one that Nutt appears in to date?
I haven't read _I Shall Wear Midnight_, but I don't think it's his
thing. His friend (I think?) Mightily Oats is a priest of Om in
_Carpe Jugulum_ (and having trouble living up to the name), but Om
himself appears in _Small Gods_, so you should start there, and
"Carpe" also includes the witches of Lancre who first appear in _Wyrd
Sisters_ except for Granny Weatherwax who turns up earlier in _Equal
Rites_... oh, just read them all, in order of publication.
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Which one contains Bloody Stupid Johnson?
No personal appearances, strictly, but his daft and dangerous
inventions appear in lots of the books.
<http://wiki.lspace.org/wiki/Bergholt_Stuttley_Johnson>
and
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Technology_of_the_Discworld#Bloody_Stupid_Johnson>
"Terry Pratchett has also known the former British Home Secretary,
Alan Johnson, for a number of years and is believed to have based B.S.
Johnson on him[citation needed]. Cf The Post Office Mail Sorter below
- it is no coincidence that Alan Johnson used to be a postman. B.S.
Johnson's name and abilities are also a parody of Capability Brown and
also, perhaps, a reference to the experimental writer B. S. Johnson.
B.S. Johnson's name and work with organ building is also a reference
to famous organ composer J. S. Bach, who shares Johnson's initials
reversed. Johnson's last name may be a reference to William Allen
Johnson, organ builder and founder of Johnson Organs; he also bears
several similarities with architect Philip Johnson, best known for
building a Glass House. On the same expanse of land that the iconic
House is built are several artistic pieces described by some as
'Johnson follies'."
Possibly worth mentioning in _Wyrd Sisters_, if I remember all the
details, is a piece of theatre stage machinery to produce the effect
of waves at sea in the background, which wasn't a Johnson but
apparently was built by Leonard of Quirm as a prototype aircraft.
Thanks.
--
The world is as it is because if it wasn't, it would be as it is.
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-22 17:23:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Someone mentioned that this is the latest discworld novel, so
presumably it's the only one that Nutt appears in to date?
Yes, Nutt is new.
Post by Norm D. Plumber
Which one contains Bloody Stupid Johnson?
Technically none of them, as he died before the series is set. His
creations appear variously and randomly in books set in Ankh-Morpork.
Robert Bannister
2010-11-22 00:16:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
Rincewind: The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Sourcery, Eric,
Interesting Times, The Last Continent, The Last Hero (only technically
a
Rincewind book, illustrated), [The Science of the Diskworld I-III
(quasi
non-fiction)]. Most of the early books are Rincewind. They are
intended as
a parody of fantasy writing and tropes and only manage to be somewhat
amusing. Start with these and you'll wonder what all the fuss is
about and
almost certainly won't have the endurance to get to the good stuff.
I have read this sort of opinion before and it always surprises me. "The
Colour of Magic" was the first book that had me laughing out loud for
many years. Without it and its sequels, I would never have got hooked on
Pratchett. Admittedly, I didn't laugh out loud the last time I re-read
it, but I don't think there are any books like that.
--
Rob Bannister
Robert Carnegie
2010-11-22 01:15:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Shawn Wilson
Rincewind: The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Sourcery, Eric,
Interesting Times, The Last Continent, The Last Hero (only technically
a
Rincewind book, illustrated), [The Science of the Diskworld I-III
(quasi
non-fiction)]. Most of the early books are Rincewind. They are
intended as
a parody of fantasy writing and tropes and only manage to be somewhat
amusing. Start with these and you'll wonder what all the fuss is
about and
almost certainly won't have the endurance to get to the good stuff.
I have read this sort of opinion before and it always surprises me. "The
Colour of Magic" was the first book that had me laughing out loud for
many years. Without it and its sequels, I would never have got hooked on
Pratchett. Admittedly, I didn't laugh out loud the last time I re-read
it, but I don't think there are any books like that.
Have you tried P. G. Wodehouse, or E. E. "Doc" Smith...

I think _The Colour of Magic_ is a bit uneven as to comedy and serious
peril for characters, and if you aren't familiar with some targets of
parody then it will be less satisfactory than if you are: I think the
first to appear are Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser recast(?) as muggers, a
Conan-type shows up later in time to fight a templeful of thing with
tentacles, slightly McCaffreyish dragonriders also appear. Generally
not quite as heroic as in their own stories. Anyway, I liked it a lot.
Robert Bannister
2010-11-23 00:46:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Carnegie
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Shawn Wilson
Rincewind: The Colour of Magic, The Light Fantastic, Sourcery, Eric,
Interesting Times, The Last Continent, The Last Hero (only technically
a
Rincewind book, illustrated), [The Science of the Diskworld I-III
(quasi
non-fiction)]. Most of the early books are Rincewind. They are
intended as
a parody of fantasy writing and tropes and only manage to be somewhat
amusing. Start with these and you'll wonder what all the fuss is
about and
almost certainly won't have the endurance to get to the good stuff.
I have read this sort of opinion before and it always surprises me. "The
Colour of Magic" was the first book that had me laughing out loud for
many years. Without it and its sequels, I would never have got hooked on
Pratchett. Admittedly, I didn't laugh out loud the last time I re-read
it, but I don't think there are any books like that.
Have you tried P. G. Wodehouse, or E. E. "Doc" Smith...
I certainly remember a time when Wodehouse made me laugh aloud. I
haven't read Doc Smith for nigh on sixty years. At the time - twelve
years old - I took it very seriously. Even thinking back, I can't see
laughs in it.
Post by Robert Carnegie
I think _The Colour of Magic_ is a bit uneven as to comedy and serious
peril for characters, and if you aren't familiar with some targets of
parody then it will be less satisfactory than if you are: I think the
first to appear are Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser recast(?) as muggers, a
Conan-type shows up later in time to fight a templeful of thing with
tentacles, slightly McCaffreyish dragonriders also appear. Generally
not quite as heroic as in their own stories. Anyway, I liked it a lot.
I didn't think of them as McCaffreyish - they weren't very nice people.

The last time I read the 3 or 4 books of the series, I was surprised to
find how many characters who become important later on, make their
appearance here. I had also forgotten it was the first (and I think only
time) when contact is briefly made with Earth and that it contains the
first adventure over the Rim.
--
Rob Bannister
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-23 18:09:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
The last time I read the 3 or 4 books of the series, I was surprised to
find how many characters who become important later on, make their
appearance here. I had also forgotten it was the first (and I think only
time) when contact is briefly made with Earth and that it contains the
first adventure over the Rim.
Over the rim is between Light Fantastic and Colour of Magic. That is,
they go over at the end of Colour of Magic, and land (back on the
Disc) at the beginning of Light Fantastic. The only book in which
anything happens 'over the rim' is in The Last Hero.

And the 'Science of the Discworld (I-III)' books have the Wizards
exploring Earth as the fictional wrapper around straight science.
Robert Bannister
2010-11-24 00:10:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Robert Bannister
The last time I read the 3 or 4 books of the series, I was surprised to
find how many characters who become important later on, make their
appearance here. I had also forgotten it was the first (and I think only
time) when contact is briefly made with Earth and that it contains the
first adventure over the Rim.
Over the rim is between Light Fantastic and Colour of Magic. That is,
they go over at the end of Colour of Magic, and land (back on the
Disc) at the beginning of Light Fantastic. The only book in which
anything happens 'over the rim' is in The Last Hero.
And the 'Science of the Discworld (I-III)' books have the Wizards
exploring Earth as the fictional wrapper around straight science.
Who actually wrote the "Science" books? Was it just Ian Stewart or did
Terry Pratchett have some hand in it? Because I assumed they weren't
Pratchett, it never occurred to me to read them, but maybe I should.
--
Rob Bannister
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-24 00:59:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Shawn Wilson
And the 'Science of the Discworld (I-III)' books have the Wizards
exploring Earth as the fictional wrapper around straight science.
Who actually wrote the "Science" books? Was it just Ian Stewart or did
Terry Pratchett have some hand in it? Because I assumed they weren't
Pratchett, it never occurred to me to read them, but maybe I should.
They read like Terry, so I assume Terry. The first one is
entertaining, the 2nd hits you over the head with the cult of
evolution (the only true religion! to reject it is to reject all of
science!*) to the point that I got bored and quit. I never read the
third.


*The actual importance of evolution to anyone but a paleotologist or a
few other science specialties is nil. And, no, people aren't looking
for an intro to reject physics and chemistry, no matter what the
cultists say.


For an important science that does matter see economics. That comes
up literally every day. And people are shockingly ignorant of even
the basics. Not only ignorant, but actively believe and fight for
blatant untruths.

No, minimum wage laws don't increase the earnings of the poor (they
price them out of the market)

Import restrictions don't 'help American workers' (they raise prices,
effectively lowering everyone's salary, and slow efficiency
improvements in the economy)

Unions are not good for labor (this one is too long for a blurb)

And the FDA is the closest thing we have to a government agency that
is actively evil (keep good drugs off the market and Americans
*die*).

/rant
David DeLaney
2010-11-24 12:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
*The actual importance of evolution to anyone but a paleotologist or a
few other science specialties is nil.
...like, say, biology, psychology, sociology, neural networking, anthropology?
Those sort of minor things?
Post by Shawn Wilson
And, no, people aren't looking
for an intro to reject physics and chemistry, no matter what the
cultists say.
You're focussed enough on what you think you know about economics that it
hasn't even occurred to you to _look_ and see what sort of cranks turn up
for physics, chemistry, math, pretty much all the hard sciences. There is
a subclass of people that would like very much to reject one or another
principle of physics; this includes ones that want to get free energy from
simple devices, and others that are SURE that perpetual motion machines can
be built and the big companies are just HIDING how to do it. Along with the
ones that sread flat-out lies and misinformation about radioactive materials...

...Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled "Shawn displays how much he doesn't
know, then gets angry about being called on it" matinee. Try the veal, he'll
be here all week!

Dave "snipping some things over which I'm sure Mr. Friedman is giggling
helplessly" DeLaney
--
\/David DeLaney posting from ***@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-24 18:07:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Shawn Wilson
*The actual importance of evolution to anyone but a paleotologist or a
few other science specialties is nil.
...like, say, biology, psychology, sociology, neural networking, anthropology?
Those sort of minor things?
All put together are minor.
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Shawn Wilson
And, no, people aren't looking
for an intro to reject physics and chemistry, no matter what the
cultists say.
You're focussed enough on what you think you know about economics that it
hasn't even occurred to you to _look_ and see what sort of cranks turn up
for physics, chemistry, math, pretty much all the hard sciences.
Excuse me? You don't know me. I know damn well what goes on in the
sciences. The turning up of an occasional crank is irrelevant.
Post by David DeLaney
...Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled "Shawn displays how much he doesn't
know, then gets angry about being called on it" matinee. Try the veal, he'll
be here all week!
Dave "snipping some things over which I'm sure Mr. Friedman is giggling
 helplessly" DeLaney
Wanna bet? $100 bucks says you're wrong.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2010-11-24 18:39:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by David DeLaney
Post by Shawn Wilson
*The actual importance of evolution to anyone but a paleotologist or a
few other science specialties is nil.
...like, say, biology, psychology, sociology, neural networking, anthropology?
Those sort of minor things?
All put together are minor.
Biology, the study of life, is minor. The study which forms the
foundation of modern medicine? The one that saves lives, engineers cures
from the very molecules of our beings?

No, you're just quite inarguably wrong here. Not that this is a surprise.
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by David DeLaney
...Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled "Shawn displays how much he doesn't
know, then gets angry about being called on it" matinee. Try the veal, he'll
be here all week!
Dave "snipping some things over which I'm sure Mr. Friedman is giggling
helplessly" DeLaney
Wanna bet? $100 bucks says you're wrong.
Well, you've demonstrated what you don't know, and that you're so
stupid as to call one of the major hard sciences (biology, which
includes much of medicine, molecular biology, genetic engineering, etc.)
"minor", which makes you dead wrong. Whether Mr. Friedman his helplessly
giggling I can't say.

But so far you're looking stupid if he actually takes that bet. Not
that we'd expect you'll pay up.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-24 18:52:33 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 24, 11:39 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by David DeLaney
...like, say, biology, psychology, sociology, neural networking, anthropology?
Those sort of minor things?
All put together are minor.
        Biology, the study of life, is minor. The study which forms the
foundation of modern medicine? The one that saves lives, engineers cures
from the very molecules of our beings?
Yep. Like I said, the actual revelance of evolution is all but non-
existant to the real world. Do elections hinge on it? Never.
Minimum wage, unions, econmics policy... All the time.
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by David DeLaney
Dave "snipping some things over which I'm sure Mr. Friedman is giggling
  helplessly" DeLaney
Wanna bet?  $100 bucks says you're wrong.
        Well, you've demonstrated what you don't know, and that you're so
stupid as to call one of the  major hard sciences (biology, which
includes much of medicine, molecular biology, genetic engineering, etc.)
"minor", which makes you dead wrong. Whether Mr. Friedman his helplessly
giggling I can't say.
        But so far you're looking stupid if he actually takes that bet. Not
that we'd expect you'll pay up.
Ya see, you have your head so far up your ass that you think the Sun
is brown. For his faults, David IS his father's son, and to people
like me Milton Friedman is God's right hand. David and I have exactly
the same economic beliefs. (and largely for the same reasons) Don't
mistake qubbling over minutia for serious disagreement on matter sof
importance.
Wayne Throop
2010-11-24 18:57:15 UTC
Permalink
: Shawn Wilson <***@gmail.com>
: Like I said, the actual revelance of evolution is all but non-
: existant to the real world.

You also said biology in general is the same.

: Do elections hinge on it? Never.
: Minimum wage, unions, econmics policy... All the time.

So... your standard of importance is "do elections hinge on it"? Really?
Not, say, "agricultural technology hinges on it" or "medical technology
hinges on it"? I suspect most people find eating and health more real
world issues than minimum wage *even* *if* wealth underlies both eating
and health. Especially since biology and anthropology underlies actual
behavior (at the very least to the extent of actually understanding
goals that get revealed), and hence economics hinges on it.


Wayne Throop ***@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-24 21:27:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Throop
: Like I said, the actual revelance of evolution is all but non-
: existant to the real world.
You also said biology in general is the same.
: Do elections hinge on it?  Never.
: Minimum wage, unions, econmics policy...  All the time.
So... your standard of importance is "do elections hinge on it"?  Really?
Not, say, "agricultural technology hinges on it" or "medical technology
hinges on it"?  I suspect most people find eating and health more real
world issues than minimum wage *even* *if* wealth underlies both eating
and health.  Especially since biology and anthropology underlies actual
behavior (at the very least to the extent of actually understanding
goals that get revealed), and hence economics hinges on it.
The difference being that one requires only a few knowledgable
experts, while the other is influenced by the opinions of millions of
the ignorant and stupid, like you. If you only need a few experts, it
doesn't matter that everyone else is ignorant. When it comes to
economics, it matters that people in general are ignorant.
Wayne Throop
2010-11-24 23:08:54 UTC
Permalink
: Shawn Wilson <***@gmail.com>
: The difference being that one requires only a few knowledgable
: experts, while the other is influenced by the opinions of millions of
: the ignorant and stupid, like you. If you only need a few experts, it
: doesn't matter that everyone else is ignorant. When it comes to
: economics, it matters that people in general are ignorant.

Wow. Punt those goalposts across the continent.
Seemingly, to distract from the fact that "only a few experts"
and "doesn't matter everybody is ignorant" applies equally
across the field, so you've failed to establish the wonderfulness
of economics by this ploy.


Wayne Throop ***@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-27 18:26:14 UTC
Permalink
Wow.  Punt those goalposts across the continent.
Seemingly, to distract from the fact that "only a few experts"
and "doesn't matter everybody is ignorant" applies equally
across the field, so you've failed to establish the wonderfulness
of economics by this ploy.
The predictions of evolution do not come up in elections. Economics
come up EVERY election. People like, you are ignorant and stupid
enough to vote for a candidate because he promises to raise the
minimum wage, and you think you can 'help' poor people that way.

And economists weep...
Mike Schilling
2010-11-27 19:20:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
The predictions of evolution do not come up in elections. Economics
come up EVERY election. People like, you are ignorant and stupid
enough to vote for a candidate because he promises to raise the
minimum wage, and you think you can 'help' poor people that way.
And economists weep...
I cannot resist, in the same way that I can't resist exploring a painful
tooth, wondering why Herrdoktor Shawn doesn't think Paul Krugman, who
supports the minimum wage, is a real economist.
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-27 19:33:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
And economists weep...
I cannot resist, in the same way that I can't resist exploring a painful
tooth, wondering why Herrdoktor Shawn doesn't think Paul Krugman, who
supports the minimum wage, is a real economist.
He is just dead wrong, every bit as much as a geologist who thinks the
Earth is flat.
Mike Schilling
2010-11-27 19:47:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
And economists weep...
I cannot resist, in the same way that I can't resist exploring a painful
tooth, wondering why Herrdoktor Shawn doesn't think Paul Krugman, who
supports the minimum wage, is a real economist.
He is just dead wrong, every bit as much as a geologist who thinks the
Earth is flat.
But all economists agree on the stuff, where "economist" is defined by
having taken the right coursework. You've said so a hundred times. Krugman
must be lying about that Ph.D. from MIT, huh? It's probably in physics or
chemical engineering.
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-27 21:05:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
And economists weep...
I cannot resist, in the same way that I can't resist exploring a painful
tooth, wondering why Herrdoktor Shawn doesn't think Paul Krugman, who
supports the minimum wage, is a real economist.
He is just dead wrong, every bit as much as a geologist who thinks the
Earth is flat.
But all economists agree on the stuff, where "economist" is defined by
having taken the right coursework.  You've said so a hundred times.  Krugman
must be lying about that Ph.D. from MIT, huh? It's probably in physics or
chemical engineering.
Krugmen is a fuckwit.
Peter Huebner
2010-11-28 01:16:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
And economists weep...
I cannot resist, in the same way that I can't resist exploring a painful
tooth, wondering why Herrdoktor Shawn doesn't think Paul Krugman, who
supports the minimum wage, is a real economist.
He is just dead wrong, every bit as much as a geologist who thinks the
Earth is flat.
But all economists agree on the stuff, where "economist" is defined by
having taken the right coursework.  You've said so a hundred times.  Krugman
must be lying about that Ph.D. from MIT, huh? It's probably in physics or
chemical engineering.
Krugmen is a fuckwit.
He'd probably think the same of you, if it's any consolation.

You're starting to take on the aspect of a religious fundamentalist who believes the world is
flat. And that anyone who thinks differently is either an idiot or posessed by the devil.

10 out of 10 for faith, 1 out of 10 for rational/critical thought, the application of.

Oh well. Takes all sorts I suppose, but I would vote for the secularization of economics any
day of the week.

-P.
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-28 20:13:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Huebner
Post by Shawn Wilson
Krugmen is a fuckwit.
He'd probably think the same of you, if it's any consolation.
He would be wrong.
Post by Peter Huebner
You're starting to take on the aspect of a religious fundamentalist who believes the world is
flat. And that anyone who thinks differently is either an idiot or posessed by the devil.
Because I actually understand the topic? Feel free to show that an
increase in the minimum wage will increase the total earnings of poor
people. You can even crib from whatever pathetic explanation Krugman
gives. Then I will show you why it can't. I know about a dozen
different reasons.

Note, we do not live in spherical horse world.
Alan Baker
2010-11-28 21:11:25 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Peter Huebner
Post by Shawn Wilson
Krugmen is a fuckwit.
He'd probably think the same of you, if it's any consolation.
He would be wrong.
Post by Peter Huebner
You're starting to take on the aspect of a religious fundamentalist who
believes the world is
flat. And that anyone who thinks differently is either an idiot or posessed
by the devil.
Because I actually understand the topic? Feel free to show that an
increase in the minimum wage will increase the total earnings of poor
people. You can even crib from whatever pathetic explanation Krugman
gives. Then I will show you why it can't. I know about a dozen
different reasons.
Note, we do not live in spherical horse world.
Since you put so much stock in degrees, he is obviously more qualified
than you are...
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
<Loading Image...>
Wayne Throop
2010-11-29 00:14:06 UTC
Permalink
::: Feel free to show that an increase in the minimum wage will increase
::: the total earnings of poor people. You can even crib from whatever
::: pathetic explanation Krugman gives. Then I will show you why it
::: can't. I know about a dozen different reasons.

:: Note, we do not live in spherical horse world.

: Since you put so much stock in degrees, he is obviously more qualified
: than you are...

Eh. It would seem to be more to the point to remember that most of
Shawn's explanations seem (either implicitly or explicitly)j to start
with "consider the spherical frictionless consumer" and proceed from there.


Wayne Throop ***@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw

David DeLaney
2010-11-28 02:08:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Schilling
I cannot resist, in the same way that I can't resist exploring a painful
tooth, wondering why Herrdoktor Shawn doesn't think Paul Krugman, who
supports the minimum wage, is a real economist.
He is just dead wrong, every bit as much as a geologist who thinks the
Earth is flat.
But all economists agree on the stuff, where "economist" is defined by
having taken the right coursework.  You've said so a hundred times.  Krugman
must be lying about that Ph.D. from MIT, huh? It's probably in physics or
chemical engineering.
Krugmen is a fuckwit.
ObSF: "Yngvi is a louse!"

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from ***@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
Mike Schilling
2010-11-28 05:16:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
And economists weep...
I cannot resist, in the same way that I can't resist exploring a painful
tooth, wondering why Herrdoktor Shawn doesn't think Paul Krugman, who
supports the minimum wage, is a real economist.
He is just dead wrong, every bit as much as a geologist who thinks the
Earth is flat.
But all economists agree on the stuff, where "economist" is defined by
having taken the right coursework. You've said so a hundred times.
Krugman
must be lying about that Ph.D. from MIT, huh? It's probably in physics or
chemical engineering.
Krugmen is a fuckwit.
You mean a Nobel Prize doesn't make him as real an economist as you are,
right?

And, as you of course know, his support for the minimum wage is supported by
a well-known study that argues that, in the real world, it doesn't have the
effect that economic theory predicts. Which is more important in economics:
theory, or whether that theory describes the real world?
Bill Snyder
2010-11-28 10:08:33 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 27 Nov 2010 21:16:33 -0800, "Mike Schilling"
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
Krugmen is a fuckwit.
You mean a Nobel Prize doesn't make him as real an economist as you are,
right?
And, as you of course know, his support for the minimum wage is supported by
a well-known study that argues that, in the real world, it doesn't have the
theory, or whether that theory describes the real world?
The trouble with that argument is that when Shawn's theories and
the real world differ, Shawn has never been reluctant to conclude
that it's the real world that is at fault.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-28 20:20:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bill Snyder
Post by Mike Schilling
And, as you of course know, his support for the minimum wage is supported by
a well-known study that argues that, in the real world, it doesn't have the
theory, or whether that theory describes the real world?
The trouble with that argument is that when Shawn's theories and
the real world differ, Shawn has never been reluctant to conclude
that it's the real world that is at fault.
"Shawn's theories"? Uh, dude. I have an education in this field.
These aren't MY theories. I didn't invent them. The people who
invented them won Nobel prizes for it. I am just teaching them to
you.

We aren't talking about me v Paul Krugman here. We are talking Paul
Krugman v damn near every other economist in the world.
Bill Snyder
2010-11-28 20:28:33 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 12:20:56 -0800 (PST), Shawn Wilson
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Bill Snyder
Post by Mike Schilling
And, as you of course know, his support for the minimum wage is supported by
a well-known study that argues that, in the real world, it doesn't have the
theory, or whether that theory describes the real world?
The trouble with that argument is that when Shawn's theories and
the real world differ, Shawn has never been reluctant to conclude
that it's the real world that is at fault.
"Shawn's theories"? Uh, dude. I have an education in this field.
These aren't MY theories. I didn't invent them. The people who
invented them won Nobel prizes for it. I am just teaching them to
you.
We aren't talking about me v Paul Krugman here. We are talking Paul
Krugman v damn near every other economist in the world.
"According to the Nobel Prize Committee, the prize was given for
Krugman's work explaining the patterns of international trade and
the geographic concentration of wealth, by examining the impact of
economies of scale and of consumer preferences for diverse goods
and services.[6] Krugman is known in academia for his work on
international economics (including trade theory, economic
geography, and international finance),[7][8] liquidity traps and
currency crises. According to the IDEAS/RePEc rankings, he is the
twelfth most widely cited economist in the world today.[9]"

- Wikipedia

But doubtless he's only cited by economists who disagree. And of
course, we all know the Nobel committee is dominated by right-wing
fanatics who conspire to hand prize after prize to free-market
types like Krugman.

Dig yourself deeper, Shawn! Deeper! You can hit the magma if you
try.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
Mike Ash
2010-11-28 18:07:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
And economists weep...
I cannot resist, in the same way that I can't resist exploring a painful
tooth, wondering why Herrdoktor Shawn doesn't think Paul Krugman, who
supports the minimum wage, is a real economist.
He is just dead wrong, every bit as much as a geologist who thinks the
Earth is flat.
But all economists agree on the stuff, where "economist" is defined by
having taken the right coursework. You've said so a hundred times.
Krugman
must be lying about that Ph.D. from MIT, huh? It's probably in physics or
chemical engineering.
Krugmen is a fuckwit.
You mean a Nobel Prize doesn't make him as real an economist as you are,
right?
In ShawnWorld, credentials don't count unless you have the "correct"
opinions about economics, in which case they count a lot. So Shawn, with
his incomplete Master's, is an expert economist because he has the right
opinions. Krugman's Nobel Prize isn't worth the gold it's made from
because he disagrees with Shawn.
Post by Mike Schilling
And, as you of course know, his support for the minimum wage is supported by
a well-known study that argues that, in the real world, it doesn't have the
theory, or whether that theory describes the real world?
In ShawnEconomics, if reality and theory differ, it is reality which is
wrong.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Bill Snyder
2010-11-28 20:14:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
Post by Mike Schilling
And, as you of course know, his support for the minimum wage is supported by
a well-known study that argues that, in the real world, it doesn't have the
theory, or whether that theory describes the real world?
In ShawnEconomics, if reality and theory differ, it is reality which is
wrong.
Plagiarist. You'll be hearing from my lawyers in the morning.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-28 20:17:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
Krugmen is a fuckwit.
You mean a Nobel Prize doesn't make him as real an economist as you are,
right?
Milton Friedman has one too. As does Gary Becker. Krugman is
wrong.
Robert Carnegie
2010-11-28 16:44:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Schilling
Post by Shawn Wilson
And economists weep...
I cannot resist, in the same way that I can't resist exploring a painful
tooth, wondering why Herrdoktor Shawn doesn't think Paul Krugman, who
supports the minimum wage, is a real economist.
He is just dead wrong, every bit as much as a geologist who thinks the
Earth is flat.
But all economists agree on the stuff, where "economist" is defined by
having taken the right coursework.  You've said so a hundred times.  Krugman
must be lying about that Ph.D. from MIT, huh? It's probably in physics or
chemical engineering.
Krugmen is a fuckwit.
If you thought that anyone in the world cared about you before you
said that, you wouldn't have.
Robert Bannister
2010-11-28 00:39:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Wayne Throop
Wow. Punt those goalposts across the continent.
Seemingly, to distract from the fact that "only a few experts"
and "doesn't matter everybody is ignorant" applies equally
across the field, so you've failed to establish the wonderfulness
of economics by this ploy.
The predictions of evolution do not come up in elections. Economics
come up EVERY election. People like, you are ignorant and stupid
enough to vote for a candidate because he promises to raise the
minimum wage, and you think you can 'help' poor people that way.
And economists weep...
I've never heard a pollie promise to raise minimum wage levels.
Politicians' salaries, yes. Economists' salaries... hmm, if they're
politicians as so many of them are, I suppose they'll get a wage rise
too. Of course, the large number of economists in government is probably
why the world's in such a mess. Come to think of it, the rest of them
are mainly lawyers - I rest my case.
--
Rob Bannister
Wayne Throop
2010-11-28 00:58:15 UTC
Permalink
: Shawn Wilson <***@gmail.com>
: People like, you are ignorant and stupid enough to vote for a
: candidate because he promises to raise the minimum wage, and you think
: you can 'help' poor people that way.

If they are like, me they have not and would not vote for a raise in
the minimum wage on those grounds. And I thought it was James A. Donald
that had "you lot" disease. Maybe you are now like, him.


Wayne Throop ***@sheol.org http://sheol.org/throopw
Robert Bannister
2010-11-25 01:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Throop
: Like I said, the actual revelance of evolution is all but non-
: existant to the real world.
You also said biology in general is the same.
: Do elections hinge on it? Never.
: Minimum wage, unions, econmics policy... All the time.
So... your standard of importance is "do elections hinge on it"? Really?
Not, say, "agricultural technology hinges on it" or "medical technology
hinges on it"? I suspect most people find eating and health more real
world issues than minimum wage *even* *if* wealth underlies both eating
and health. Especially since biology and anthropology underlies actual
behavior (at the very least to the extent of actually understanding
goals that get revealed), and hence economics hinges on it.
I would like to believe you were right, but I suspect most people are
merely interested in how much they get in their pay packet and how much
it will buy. Things like uncontrolled GM products getting on the market
or the amount of salt and sugar in fast food don't seem to bother the
vast majority.
--
Rob Bannister
P. Taine
2010-11-28 03:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wayne Throop
: Like I said, the actual revelance of evolution is all but non-
: existant to the real world.
You also said biology in general is the same.
: Do elections hinge on it? Never.
: Minimum wage, unions, econmics policy... All the time.
So... your standard of importance is "do elections hinge on it"? Really?
Not, say, "agricultural technology hinges on it" or "medical technology
hinges on it"? I suspect most people find eating and health more real
world issues than minimum wage *even* *if* wealth underlies both eating
and health. Especially since biology and anthropology underlies actual
behavior (at the very least to the extent of actually understanding
goals that get revealed), and hence economics hinges on it.
Oh Wayne, you know that if Shawnee gets appendicitis he goes to his banker or
broker -- although I seem to remember that he has never claimed to have made
money using his unsurpassed economic skills -- so maybe he sees the local
numbers runner.

You don't except him to trust his life to someone who bases his work on hard
facts rather than bad theory, do you?
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
2010-11-24 19:27:59 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 24, 11:39 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by David DeLaney
...like, say, biology, psychology, sociology, neural networking, anthropology?
Those sort of minor things?
All put together are minor.
Biology, the study of life, is minor. The study which forms the
foundation of modern medicine? The one that saves lives, engineers cures
from the very molecules of our beings?
Yep.
Okay, you ARE an idiot. Thanks for confirming.

Like I said, the actual revelance of evolution is all but non-
existant to the real world.
Who said "evolution"? BIOLOGY. The study of LIFE. From which comes
modern medicine, genetic engineering, and all sorts of other things
tremendously relevant to the real world -- in fact, absolutely PIVOTAL.
Modern medicine is the reason average lifespan is around 80, the reason
that smallpox no longer exists, the reason that millions of people today
are still alive. It's the reason we no longer need to slaughter
uncounted thousands of animals just to extract insulin from them. It's
the reason we can understand thousands of things about the way animals
work and can take that knowledge to help ourselves and others.
Do elections hinge on it?
What relevance is that? Do you contend that elections are the measure
of importance? Elections hinge on whatever a candidate makes into a
soundbite.
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by David DeLaney
Dave "snipping some things over which I'm sure Mr. Friedman is giggling
helplessly" DeLaney
Wanna bet? $100 bucks says you're wrong.
Well, you've demonstrated what you don't know, and that you're so
stupid as to call one of the major hard sciences (biology, which
includes much of medicine, molecular biology, genetic engineering, etc.)
"minor", which makes you dead wrong. Whether Mr. Friedman his helplessly
giggling I can't say.
But so far you're looking stupid if he actually takes that bet. Not
that we'd expect you'll pay up.
Ya see, you have your head so far up your ass that you think the Sun
is brown. For his faults, David IS his father's son, and to people
like me Milton Friedman is God's right hand.
And now you go off on a totally irrelevant tangent; the discussion
about your sad inadequacy and your belief that because David had a
famous father he was successful and you weren't is over ---> that way,
on another thread where you're looking stupid too, but in a different way.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Website: http://www.grandcentralarena.com Blog:
http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-24 21:31:01 UTC
Permalink
On Nov 24, 12:27 pm, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Shawn Wilson
Do elections hinge on it?
        What relevance is that?
The dividing line between general ignorance mattering and not. Most
people don't know how to perform surgery. Most people don't NEED to
know how to perform surgery, and their ignorance is irrelevant to the
rest of us. When elections hinge on the beliefs of others, it
actually matters if they are ignorant.
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by David DeLaney
Dave "snipping some things over which I'm sure Mr. Friedman is giggling
   helplessly" DeLaney
Wanna bet?  $100 bucks says you're wrong.
         Well, you've demonstrated what you don't know, and that you're so
stupid as to call one of the  major hard sciences (biology, which
includes much of medicine, molecular biology, genetic engineering, etc.)
"minor", which makes you dead wrong. Whether Mr. Friedman his helplessly
giggling I can't say.
         But so far you're looking stupid if he actually takes that bet. Not
that we'd expect you'll pay up.
Ya see, you have your head so far up your ass that you think the Sun
is brown.  For his faults, David IS his father's son, and to people
like me Milton Friedman is God's right hand.
        And now you go off on a totally irrelevant tangent; the discussion
about your sad inadequacy and your belief that because David had a
famous father he was successful and you weren't is over ---> that way,
on another thread where you're looking stupid too, but in a different way.
You not understanding doesn't make something irrelevant. The point
was raised that David would disagree, I know for a fact that he agrees
with pretty much my entire political and economic philosophy. YOU are
just a twit.
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-25 09:36:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
On Nov 24, 11:39 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
Post by Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by David DeLaney
...like, say, biology, psychology, sociology, neural networking, anthropology?
Those sort of minor things?
All put together are minor.
Biology, the study of life, is minor. The study which forms the
foundation of modern medicine? The one that saves lives, engineers cures
from the very molecules of our beings?
Yep.
Okay, you ARE an idiot. Thanks for confirming.
Like I said, the actual revelance of evolution is all but non-
existant to the real world.
Who said "evolution"?
*The actual importance of evolution to anyone but a paleotologist or a
few other science specialties is nil.
Maybe I took it the wrong way, but I read his comment to mean that it
doesn't matter how things got to be the way they are (evolution,
creationism, intelligent design, spontaneous generation, import from
sirius-4, etc) what matters is how things work.

Now he's been twisted around to saying that how biology works today
doesn't matter, which isn't the same thing at all as what I thought he
was saying to start with.

So who knows what he was trying to say; I don't expect him to pay off
on any bets one way or the other though.
--
The world is as it is because if it wasn't, it would be as it is.
Paul Colquhoun
2010-11-28 03:55:00 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:52:33 -0800 (PST), Shawn Wilson <***@gmail.com> wrote:
| On Nov 24, 11:39 am, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
| <***@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
|
|> >> ...like, say, biology, psychology, sociology, neural networking, anthropology?
|> >> Those sort of minor things?
|>
|> > All put together are minor.
|>
|>         Biology, the study of life, is minor. The study which forms the
|> foundation of modern medicine? The one that saves lives, engineers cures
|> from the very molecules of our beings?
|
|
|
| Yep. Like I said, the actual revelance of evolution is all but non-
| existant to the real world. Do elections hinge on it? Never.


I seem to recall that stem cell research was a big campaign topic a
while back. Admittedly the actual debate was based more on religion than
on biology/medicine, but it was definitely an important biological
issue.


| Minimum wage, unions, econmics policy... All the time.


Sure, but nobody seems to be able to come up with any definitive
answers. Neither side of the debates say things like "recent research
shows that our policy will be more effective", they all just point at
the oppositions policy and say "that never works".
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
Mike Ash
2010-11-28 05:12:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Colquhoun
| Minimum wage, unions, econmics policy... All the time.
Sure, but nobody seems to be able to come up with any definitive
answers. Neither side of the debates say things like "recent research
shows that our policy will be more effective", they all just point at
the oppositions policy and say "that never works".
It should come as no surprise that political debate concentrates on
areas where there is no consensus among experts. Debating gravity would
be ridiculous. Only the most die-hard right-wingers debate evolution.
The global warming debate in the US is made possible only by a massive
campaign of misinformation. Economics, being so soft and fluid, is a
perfect area to have a political debate because nobody can ever prove
you wrong.
--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon
Paul Colquhoun
2010-11-28 06:44:18 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 00:12:34 -0500, Mike Ash <***@mikeash.com> wrote:
| In article <***@andor.dropbear.id.au>,
| Paul Colquhoun <***@andor.dropbear.id.au> wrote:
|
|> | Minimum wage, unions, econmics policy... All the time.
|>
|> Sure, but nobody seems to be able to come up with any definitive
|> answers. Neither side of the debates say things like "recent research
|> shows that our policy will be more effective", they all just point at
|> the oppositions policy and say "that never works".
|
| It should come as no surprise that political debate concentrates on
| areas where there is no consensus among experts. Debating gravity would
| be ridiculous. Only the most die-hard right-wingers debate evolution.


Again, usually on religious grounds.


| The global warming debate in the US is made possible only by a massive
| campaign of misinformation. Economics, being so soft and fluid, is a
| perfect area to have a political debate because nobody can ever prove
| you wrong.


Economics and religion seem to be the big political debating points
(along with politics itself). All that they seem to have in common is a
lack of hard data and mathematical rigor...
--
Reverend Paul Colquhoun, ULC. http://andor.dropbear.id.au/~paulcol
Asking for technical help in newsgroups? Read this first:
http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#intro
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-28 20:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Colquhoun
Economics and religion seem to be the big political debating points
(along with politics itself).  All that they seem to have in common is a
lack of hard data and mathematical rigor...
Sigh... You have never taken a single economics course, have you?
Bill Snyder
2010-11-28 20:20:21 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 12:18:23 -0800 (PST), Shawn Wilson
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Paul Colquhoun
Economics and religion seem to be the big political debating points
(along with politics itself).  All that they seem to have in common is a
lack of hard data and mathematical rigor...
Sigh... You have never taken a single economics course, have you?
Increasingly, we come to suspect that you haven't, either.
--
Bill Snyder [This space unintentionally left blank]
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-28 20:17:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Ash
It should come as no surprise that political debate concentrates on
areas where there is no consensus among experts.
Actually there IS concensus among experts on these issues. Amateurs
just don't like the truth, so they delude themselves. Krugman, et al,
are on the fringe of the profession.
Mike Schilling
2010-11-28 21:10:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Mike Ash
It should come as no surprise that political debate concentrates on
areas where there is no consensus among experts.
Actually there IS concensus among experts on these issues. Amateurs
just don't like the truth, so they delude themselves. Krugman, et al,
are on the fringe of the profession.
Hence the Nobel prize.
Shawn Wilson
2010-11-28 20:15:51 UTC
Permalink
| Yep.  Like I said, the actual revelance of evolution is all but non-
| existant to the real world.  Do elections hinge on it?  Never.
I seem to recall that stem cell research was a big campaign topic a
while back. Admittedly the actual debate was based more on religion than
on biology/medicine, but it was definitely an important biological
issue.
Not an evolutionary one. And the issue was not 'stem cell research',
it was *fetal* stem cell research. As in disassembling babies. In
addition to the basic murder and cannibalism issues, there would be
rejection issues as it would be foreign tissue. And we can extract
stem cells from adults anyway.
| Minimum wage, unions, econmics policy...  All the time.
Sure, but nobody seems to be able to come up with any definitive
answers.
Economists came up with definitive answers 100 years ago. These are
all no brainers. There are others.
Bryce Utting
2010-11-25 09:09:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by David DeLaney
You're focussed enough on what you think you know about economics that it
hasn't even occurred to you to _look_ and see what sort of cranks turn up
for physics, chemistry, math, pretty much all the hard sciences.
Excuse me? You don't know me. I know damn well what goes on in the
sciences. The turning up of an occasional crank is irrelevant.
there's a *reason* you've failed to make a significant mark in
economics, I just *know* it!


butting
--
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~butting
The deal? Delirium will drive. You will advise her. I am sure you
will find the experience one of great variety and interest.
-- Sandman
Norm D. Plumber
2010-11-25 09:24:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shawn Wilson
*The actual importance of evolution to anyone but a paleotologist or a
few other science specialties is nil.
What I took you to mean by that is that it doesn't make any difference
whether life evolved from unliving matter or was created as-is or
spontaneously generated itself last Tuesday, things work the way they
work, and the way they work is what's important rather than how they
got to be that way.

But now you seem to be arguing that how things work isn't important
either, so I'm not sure what you meant.
--
The world is as it is because if it wasn't, it would be as it is.
Jaimie Vandenbergh
2010-11-24 01:01:16 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:10:43 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Robert Bannister
The last time I read the 3 or 4 books of the series, I was surprised to
find how many characters who become important later on, make their
appearance here. I had also forgotten it was the first (and I think only
time) when contact is briefly made with Earth and that it contains the
first adventure over the Rim.
Over the rim is between Light Fantastic and Colour of Magic. That is,
they go over at the end of Colour of Magic, and land (back on the
Disc) at the beginning of Light Fantastic. The only book in which
anything happens 'over the rim' is in The Last Hero.
And the 'Science of the Discworld (I-III)' books have the Wizards
exploring Earth as the fictional wrapper around straight science.
Who actually wrote the "Science" books? Was it just Ian Stewart or did
Terry Pratchett have some hand in it? Because I assumed they weren't
Pratchett, it never occurred to me to read them, but maybe I should.
Stewart and Pratchett together. Each of the Science books has a
Wizards novella (or thereabouts) interspersed with Stewart's sciencey
bits - but from appearances, Pratchett ghosted Stewart's prose - or at
least the footnotes.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Is everyone acting like a solipsist in here, or is it just me?
Robert Carnegie
2010-11-24 16:33:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:10:43 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
The last time I read the 3 or 4 books of the series, I was surprised to
find how many characters who become important later on, make their
appearance here. I had also forgotten it was the first (and I think only
time) when contact is briefly made with Earth and that it contains the
first adventure over the Rim.
Over the rim is between Light Fantastic and Colour of Magic.  That is,
they go over at the end of Colour of Magic, and land (back on the
Disc) at the beginning of Light Fantastic.  The only book in which
anything happens 'over the rim' is in The Last Hero.
And the 'Science of the Discworld (I-III)' books have the Wizards
exploring Earth as the fictional wrapper around straight science.
Who actually wrote the "Science" books? Was it just Ian Stewart or did
Terry Pratchett have some hand in it? Because I assumed they weren't
Pratchett, it never occurred to me to read them, but maybe I should.
Stewart and Pratchett together. Each of the Science books has a
Wizards novella (or thereabouts) interspersed with Stewart's sciencey
bits - but from appearances, Pratchett ghosted Stewart's prose - or at
least the footnotes.
"Ghosted" seems an inappropriate word. You may be thinking of "sub-
edited" - but at that, I think the style just rubs off. And there are
the two science authors plus Sir T.

I think they were a mutual admiration and/or drinking group long
before these collaborations were conceived. I believe Sir has
acknowledged that he came by some crazy-ass genuine science concepts
that way. Just call them "The Drinklings". :-) (It's taken, never
mind.)
Robert Sneddon
2010-11-24 19:12:27 UTC
Permalink
In message
Post by Robert Carnegie
I think they were a mutual admiration and/or drinking group long
before these collaborations were conceived. I believe Sir has
acknowledged that he came by some crazy-ass genuine science concepts
that way.
As have a number of other SF writers -- Jack Cohen is credited by
several SF authors as the source of biology ideas for certain of their
books. He works at Warwick University along with Ian Stewart. They've
actually written an SF book themselves, "Wheelers" which describes a
method of getting human beings from Earth to Jupiter in about two weeks
without miracle tech.
--
To reply, my gmail address is nojay1 Robert Sneddon
Robert Bannister
2010-11-25 01:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 08:10:43 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Shawn Wilson
Post by Robert Bannister
The last time I read the 3 or 4 books of the series, I was surprised to
find how many characters who become important later on, make their
appearance here. I had also forgotten it was the first (and I think only
time) when contact is briefly made with Earth and that it contains the
first adventure over the Rim.
Over the rim is between Light Fantastic and Colour of Magic. That is,
they go over at the end of Colour of Magic, and land (back on the
Disc) at the beginning of Light Fantastic. The only book in which
anything happens 'over the rim' is in The Last Hero.
And the 'Science of the Discworld (I-III)' books have the Wizards
exploring Earth as the fictional wrapper around straight science.
Who actually wrote the "Science" books? Was it just Ian Stewart or did
Terry Pratchett have some hand in it? Because I assumed they weren't
Pratchett, it never occurred to me to read them, but maybe I should.
Stewart and Pratchett together. Each of the Science books has a
Wizards novella (or thereabouts) interspersed with Stewart's sciencey
bits - but from appearances, Pratchett ghosted Stewart's prose - or at
least the footnotes.
Thanks. I will keep an eye open for them. At the moment, there seems to
be a bit of a shortage.
--
Rob Bannister
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