Discussion:
[slim] SB4: The 'Duet' is here
smcint
2008-01-05 21:32:46 UTC
Permalink
See the news on gizmodo

http://gizmodo.com/341045/logitech-makes-grab-at-sonos-audience-with-squeezebox-duet

Edit: I want one.. but how does it sounds? Is the DAC etc. the same as
the SB3?


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vrobin
2008-01-05 21:44:42 UTC
Permalink
I think it's a SB3 without the VFD so it should be the same dac (if
logitech didn't decide to cut off price in this field, but i don't
think so).

I wonder if it will be available at CES, i'll be glad to get back with
one in my suitcase :)


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Nostromo
2008-01-05 22:28:36 UTC
Permalink
> Logitech® Squeezebox™ Duet Network Music Player
> Listen to the music you love in any room in your home
> *Shipping: January 2008*
> Price: $399.99 (Controller and Receiver)1 Available at:
> www.logitech.com

Mmmm, some people here seem to think that the Jive remote isn't ready
for prime time yet.

And maybe its just the picture, but the new Squeezebox looks quite
plain.


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Richie
2008-01-05 22:30:14 UTC
Permalink
There are a few more pictures here:

http://www.softwareheadlines.com/modules/planet/view.article.php/248311


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bonze
2008-01-05 22:59:16 UTC
Permalink
Richie;254641 Wrote:
> There are a few more pictures here:
>
> http://www.softwareheadlines.com/modules/planet/view.article.php/248311and here:
http://www.ubergizmo.com/zoom.php?dir=2008/1/logitech-squeezebox-duet/


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amcluesent
2008-01-05 22:31:10 UTC
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>the new Squeezebox looks quite plain<

The illustration looks more like a CAD rendering.


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Pat Farrell
2008-01-05 23:09:25 UTC
Permalink
amcluesent wrote:
> The illustration looks more like a CAD rendering.

There are lots of photos of the controller on the Jive forum.

Making a SB without a display is not much of a challenge.


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mkozlows
2008-01-05 22:32:29 UTC
Permalink
So, it's just like my SB2, except that I can't look at the screen to see
what's playing and can't use the regular universal remote with it?

I dunno. Maybe if I decide to build a good bedside headphone system
it'd be useful, but otherwise it's actually less useful than an SB2/3.
I wonder if Logitech is going to keep the current model around?


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Marc Sherman
2008-01-05 22:38:31 UTC
Permalink
mkozlows wrote:
>
> I dunno. Maybe if I decide to build a good bedside headphone system
> it'd be useful, but otherwise it's actually less useful than an SB2/3.
> I wonder if Logitech is going to keep the current model around?

I suspect that the fact that they're calling it "Duet" and not "4" is
pretty telling about their plans in that regard.

- Marc
Pat Farrell
2008-01-05 23:11:00 UTC
Permalink
> Mmmm, some people here seem to think that the Jive remote isn't ready
> for prime time yet.

Apple has shown that software can be tweaked and improved after release.

This is the beauty of the whole Squeeze world, open source server. The
Jive remote's code is open source, written in Lua
Bill Burns
2008-01-05 22:39:33 UTC
Permalink
smcint wrote:
> See the news on gizmodo
>
> http://gizmodo.com/341045/logitech-makes-grab-at-sonos-audience-with-squeezebox-duet
>
> Edit: I want one.. but how does it sounds? Is the DAC etc. the same as
> the SB3?

Will the hand controller run existing Squeezeboxes? And if so, will it
be available separately?

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Nostromo
2008-01-05 22:41:12 UTC
Permalink
I believe so, yes.


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SuperQ
2008-01-05 23:01:20 UTC
Permalink
Bill Burns;254650 Wrote:
> Will the hand controller run existing Squeezeboxes? And if so, will it
>
> be available separately?

Yes, I have been beta testing it for a while now. The remote should
work with all squeezeboxes back to the slimp3 afaik. Although I only
have SB2 and newer to test myself.

Don't know if it will be sold as standalone or not.


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Michael Herger
2008-01-05 23:17:05 UTC
Permalink
> Will the hand controller run existing Squeezeboxes?

The Controller will control any player connected to SqueezeCenter, be it
hard- or software.

Michael
PSSO
2008-01-05 23:33:33 UTC
Permalink
Michael Herger;254670 Wrote:
> > Will the hand controller run existing Squeezeboxes?
>
> The Controller will control any player connected to SqueezeCenter, be
> it
> hard- or software.
>
> Michael
Can the remote be bought separately? (already have the Transporter)


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mrfantasy
2008-01-05 23:34:19 UTC
Permalink
I'd guess controllers separately are going to be $150-$200 if they sell
them.

Love to know if the Duet station is just an SB3 without the display and
a new case. Is that a bona fide power switch on the front?
Interesting.


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marlowe
2008-01-05 23:45:08 UTC
Permalink
According to this site
http://www.hifi.nl/nieuws/39269/Logitech_Squeezebox_Duet_Network_System.html


"The Logitech Squeezebox duet network music system are according to the
expectations in the middle of January available for a shop recommended
retail price of 399.99 euro. Additional recipients are available for a
shop recommended retail price of 149.99 euro. Loose controller are as
from January available for the shop recommended retail price of 299.99
euro." (Translation from Dutch by Bablefish)

I think the controller is a bit expensive... At 149 I probably wouldn't
hessitate for long (got the Transporter). I will at twice the price.


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marlowe
2008-01-06 00:07:07 UTC
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http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_controller.html
http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html
http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_receiver.html

So USD299 it is...


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mvalera
2008-01-06 00:14:54 UTC
Permalink
God Gizmodo apparently can't tell the difference between 4PM PST and
EST... *sigh*!

Guys PLEASE quit calling it the SB4, the code name was Jive (crazy
huh?).

Mike


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bigfool1956
2008-01-06 00:17:53 UTC
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The controller on its own is flipping expensive.

The duet deal seems a much better bet, assuming you want another SB.


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Nostromo
2008-01-06 00:22:34 UTC
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The DAC in the Duet/Squeezebox Receiver differs from the SB2/3.

>From the product page:

> High fidelity Wolfson® 24-bit DAC


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Mitch Harding
2008-01-06 00:58:23 UTC
Permalink
Anyone know if this is a step up, down, or more of a lateral move?

On Jan 5, 2008 6:22 PM, Nostromo
<Nostromo.32qnjn1199579101-NUepA2SMhDQqspMVqqL2D+4xXEVPTSb/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> The DAC in the Duet/Squeezebox Receiver differs from the SB2/3.
>
> From the product page:
>
> > High fidelity Wolfson(R) 24-bit DAC
>
>
> --
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dean blackketter
2008-01-06 00:26:50 UTC
Permalink
As you surmised, the Squeezebox Controller (the remote formerly known as
Jive) will list for $299US, and the Squeezebox Receiver (formerly known as
Ray) will be $149.

The bundle of the two is called Squeezebox Duet and will list for $399US.
For the time being, you'll need to have at least one Controller to set up a
Receiver. That's a limit of the current software.

And as Mike said, this isn't Squeezebox 4, but compliments the classic
Squeezebox.
bigfool1956
2008-01-06 00:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Of course the bummer for us QNAP users, and other NASes, is that SS7 is
required.

So I hope suitable upgrade modules will be appearing soon (Progressive
please).


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mrfantasy
2008-01-06 00:53:29 UTC
Permalink
Basically, for the price of a Sonos remote, you get the whole system.
Additional audio interfaces are just $150, as opposed to
$349 for the Sonos part.

$299 for remote is probably fair, but takes it out of the "run out and
buy it as soon as it's available" category to "maybe wait and see" for
me. I guess I can play with Jive on Windows with the SDK, perhaps I'll
start doing that.


I can't speak to how easy a Sonos is to configure (except it just grabs
file shares, so can run against a NAS without additional software) but I
know SqueezeCenter is extremely configurable and usable.

Works for me.


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Ali-M
2008-01-06 01:03:07 UTC
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Why go with the Wolfson DAC instead of the Burr-Brown?


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Mitch Harding
2008-01-06 01:12:57 UTC
Permalink
And I'd like to further ask, in general, what are the significant
audio differences between the new units and the SB3?

On Jan 5, 2008 7:03 PM, Ali-M
<Ali-M.32qpec1199581502-NUepA2SMhDQqspMVqqL2D+4xXEVPTSb/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Why go with the Wolfson DAC instead of the Burr-Brown?
>
>
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Mitch Harding
2008-01-06 01:28:57 UTC
Permalink
>From reading the web page, I've noticed the following audio differences...

- As previously mentioned, SB3 Burr-Brown DAC vs Duet Wolfson DAC
- The SB3 claims SNR over 100dB, the Duet claims SNR over 90dB
- The SB3 claims THD less than -93.5dB, the Duet claims THD less than -88dB
- Duet lacks the headphone jack

Are the second two bullets a result of the first one? And if so, does
this mean that the Duet is a slight step down in audio quality? I
note that the listed jitter number (< 50ps) is the same for both.

On Jan 5, 2008 7:12 PM, Mitch Harding <mitcharf-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> And I'd like to further ask, in general, what are the significant
> audio differences between the new units and the SB3?
>
> On Jan 5, 2008 7:03 PM, Ali-M
>
> <Ali-M.32qpec1199581502-NUepA2SMhDQqspMVqqL2D+4xXEVPTSb/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> > Why go with the Wolfson DAC instead of the Burr-Brown?
> >
> >
> > --
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Mitch Harding
2008-01-06 01:33:19 UTC
Permalink
Also noticed that the Duet has 32 Mb of RAM, versus 64 Mb on the SB3.
Is this the audio buffer? If so, does anyone know how this compares
with the SB1? I remember dropout issues were more common with that,
and people often claimed the larger SB3 buffer alleviated this. Just
wondering how the Duet buffer compares to the SB1 buffer size.

On Jan 5, 2008 7:28 PM, Mitch Harding <mitcharf-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> From reading the web page, I've noticed the following audio differences...
>
> - As previously mentioned, SB3 Burr-Brown DAC vs Duet Wolfson DAC
> - The SB3 claims SNR over 100dB, the Duet claims SNR over 90dB
> - The SB3 claims THD less than -93.5dB, the Duet claims THD less than -88dB
> - Duet lacks the headphone jack
>
> Are the second two bullets a result of the first one? And if so, does
> this mean that the Duet is a slight step down in audio quality? I
> note that the listed jitter number (< 50ps) is the same for both.
>
>
> On Jan 5, 2008 7:12 PM, Mitch Harding <mitcharf-***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > And I'd like to further ask, in general, what are the significant
> > audio differences between the new units and the SB3?
> >
> > On Jan 5, 2008 7:03 PM, Ali-M
> >
> > <Ali-M.32qpec1199581502-NUepA2SMhDQqspMVqqL2D+4xXEVPTSb/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Why go with the Wolfson DAC instead of the Burr-Brown?
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >
> >
>
dean blackketter
2008-01-06 07:40:17 UTC
Permalink
On Jan 5, 2008, at 5:33 PM, Mitch Harding wrote:
> Also noticed that the Duet has 32 Mb of RAM, versus 64 Mb on the SB3.
The Squeezebox Receiver has 64 megabits (aka 8 megabytes) of SDRAM,
the same as SB3.

The Squeezebox Controller has 64 megabytes of SDRAM.
erland
2008-01-06 01:29:51 UTC
Permalink
Does the SqueezeBox Controller have a working headphone output ?

What does "Digital passthrough to S/PDIF for DTS" mean on the
SqueezeBox Controller ?
It says it support this in the product specification on:
http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_controller.html


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Mitch Harding
2008-01-06 01:31:50 UTC
Permalink
No headphone output is listed on the spec page, so I'm guessing there
is not one.

On Jan 5, 2008 7:29 PM, erland
<erland.32qqjz1199583002-NUepA2SMhDQqspMVqqL2D+4xXEVPTSb/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> Does the SqueezeBox Controller have a working headphone output ?
>
> What does "Digital passthrough to S/PDIF for DTS" mean on the
> SqueezeBox Controller ?
> It says it support this in the product specification on:
> http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_controller.html
>
>
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>
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> (http://erland.homeip.net/download)
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mvalera
2008-01-06 01:44:19 UTC
Permalink
erland;254711 Wrote:
>
>
> What does "Digital passthrough to S/PDIF for DTS" mean on the
> SqueezeBox Controller ?
> It says it support this in the product specification on:
> http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_controller.html

oops... lemme get rid of that.

Mike


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Mitch Harding
2008-01-06 01:47:05 UTC
Permalink
The controller page also talks about listening to music without your
PC on. Will the controller be able to control the receiver on
SqueezeNetwork even without SC running?

On Jan 5, 2008 7:44 PM, mvalera
<mvalera.32qr8z1199583901-NUepA2SMhDQqspMVqqL2D+4xXEVPTSb/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> erland;254711 Wrote:
> >
> >
> > What does "Digital passthrough to S/PDIF for DTS" mean on the
> > SqueezeBox Controller ?
> > It says it support this in the product specification on:
> > http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_controller.html
>
> oops... lemme get rid of that.
>
> Mike
>
>
> --
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>
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mvalera
2008-01-06 02:07:41 UTC
Permalink
All the listening would be through whatever you are controlling with the
Controller.

I put a qualifier in the audio formats at the top, does that make it
more clear?


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erland
2008-01-06 02:13:56 UTC
Permalink
mvalera;254721 Wrote:
> All the listening would be through whatever you are controlling with the
> Controller.
>
> I put a qualifier in the audio formats at the top, does that make it
> more clear?

It's a little bit clearer, but I really don't understand why the "Audio
Formats" section should be available at all in the spec of the
"SqueezeBox Controller".
A section that describes what functions you can control in SlimServer
would make a lot more sense to me.


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mvalera
2008-01-06 02:22:09 UTC
Permalink
I'll add that in, but it may have to wait a couple days.

I need to pack for CES!

Mike


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dean blackketter
2008-01-06 03:49:12 UTC
Permalink
To clear up a little bit about the new product announcement.

There are two new hardware products, the Squeezebox Receiver and the
Squeezebox Controller. These are available separately, but when
bought together the bundle is called Squeezebox Duet.

Squeezebox Receiver is based on the existing Squeezebox 2/3 hardware
platform with the same amount of memory, CPU speed, wireless card,
etc. In fact the firmware that's running on it is essentially the
same as on the classic Squeezebox. It lacks a headphone jack and
uses a different (but quite good) DAC. In place of a VFD display it
has a single button with an RGB LED behind it. The color of that
button is under software control and indicates if the device is
connected and working properly. The button acts as a pause/unpause
control, or if you press and hold, puts the Receiver into setup mode.

Squeezebox Controller is exactly the same hardware that folks from
the community have been testing under the code-name "Jive Hardware
Beta", as discussed here: http://forums.slimdevices.com/
forumdisplay.php?f=19

It's based on an entirely new ARM-based hardware architecture and a
new software platform which has been under development as the Jive
software and will be renamed SqueezeOS.

The Controller uses its built-in 802.11g wireless to talk to
SqueezeCenter and/or SqueezeNetwork as an alternative way to control
your Squeezeboxen or Transporter and has nice 2.4" display and enough
buttons to navigate and play your music on your other devices.

The Controller also has a small built-in speaker and headphone jack
which are used for sound effects for the user interface. Future
software updates could make the Controller a player itself, streaming
your music (or any of the internet radio or music services on
SqueezeNetwork) to the headphone jack. If and when that software
update happens, the Duet bundle would be like getting two players in
one box.

There's also an SD card slot in the unit, an IR transmitter, a 3-axis
accelerometer and an expansion port on the bottom. What software
features get added depends largely on what the community comes up
with, there's already a bunch of neat applets and other software that
have been created during the beta program.

I'm REALLY excited about these new products. Folks have been asking
for a couple of new products from us for a while: a less expensive
Squeezebox and a remote with a display. We did that.

But it gets better. The Squeezebox Controller is based on a totally
new and open platform for software development. In the same way that
SqueezeCenter (nee SlimServer) was a platform for our community to
create new ways of listening to music, Squeezebox Controller and
SqueezeOS are platforms for building new ways of controlling your
music and more.

You ain't seen nothing yet.

-dean
Bill Burns
2008-01-06 04:03:03 UTC
Permalink
dean blackketter wrote:

> You ain't seen nothing yet.

Now all we need is a little coupon to ease all the faithful
SliMP3/SB1/2/3/Transporter existing users into the Duet.

--
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andyg
2008-01-06 04:06:18 UTC
Permalink
The Duet receiver has the same buffer RAM as the SB3, so don't worry
about that. :)


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mvalera
2008-01-06 04:32:54 UTC
Permalink
andyg;254750 Wrote:
> The Duet receiver has the same buffer RAM as the SB3, so don't worry
> about that. :)

Dean just IM'ed me.

Apparently the engineering spec sheet I was working off had an error.
The Squeezebox Receiver has 64MB of RAM not 32. I just corrected the
website.

We can all breathe easier now. ;P

Mike


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pichonCalavera
2008-01-06 04:17:25 UTC
Permalink
Oh ok, this clears things up a bit, I'm actually quite intrigued right
now with the SD Card slot and the headphone output jack, since these
two things could make a portable music device at one moment in time out
of this Squeezebox Controller, I mean, there is a 'download' option
right now on Squeezecenter for when you are browsing your own tracks,
so if this function comes to SqueezeOS (formely known as Jive), you
could just be browsing your personal music collection, "download" the
albums/songs of choice to your Squeezebox Controller to be stored on
the SD Card slot, and off you go... now you have your own open-source
music player filled with your own personal music, altough the
Controller probably is too big for this purpose.


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Pat Farrell
2008-01-06 04:25:24 UTC
Permalink
pichonCalavera wrote:
> the SD Card slot, and off you go... now you have your own open-source
> music player filled with your own personal music, altough the
> Controller probably is too big for this purpose.

I think its way too big for most folks use as a PMP, it dwarfs a iPod,
even the big ones. (I've got the beta Jive version, I expect its the
same size)

The video screen is pretty cool, might even show video if you were crazy
enough.
Mitch G
2008-01-06 04:30:11 UTC
Permalink
dean blackketter;254747 Wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> There's also an SD card slot in the unit, an IR transmitter, a 3-axis
>
> accelerometer and an expansion port on the bottom. What software
> features get added depends largely on what the community comes up
> with, there's already a bunch of neat applets and other software that
>
> have been created during the beta program.
> <snip>
>
> -dean

So, is the Controller programmable (out of the box) ala Logitech
Harmony products thus making it a universal remote? Or, would such a
feature be one of those capabilities that would have to come from the
community?

Mitch


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pichonCalavera
2008-01-06 04:35:27 UTC
Permalink
Since the Squeezebox Controller needs Squeezecenter 7.0, I guess we can
expect the Squeezebox Receiver, Squeezebox Controller and Squeezecenter
7.0 being released simultaneously?


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mvalera
2008-01-06 04:46:59 UTC
Permalink
pichonCalavera;254759 Wrote:
> Since the Squeezebox Controller needs Squeezecenter 7.0, I guess we can
> expect the Squeezebox Receiver, Squeezebox Controller and Squeezecenter
> 7.0 being released simultaneously?

We're trying to get SC7 out the door as fast as we can.

It's already available to anyone in beta, and will be out of beta by
the time you can get your hands on a Duet.

Mike


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alstein
2008-01-06 05:30:21 UTC
Permalink
Hi

I currently own a SB3 and have it connected to my Main AVR in my Den. I
was considering purchasing an additional SB3 for use in my kitchen and
possibly another SB3 for my bedroom. How does the duet change this
scenareo. Two additional SB3's would include two remotes. It seems to
me that in order to control the 2 receivers, I would need to move the
remote controller from room to room. Also, I find the display on the
SB3 essential. I assume that the controller's display replaces that on
the receiver. But, again, if I am in one room and my wife is in
another, then one controller seems insufficient - especially if there
are relaively long distances between receivers. Am I missing something
in the product description of the Duet?


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Skunk
2008-01-06 06:03:40 UTC
Permalink
alstein;254775 Wrote:
> I was considering purchasing an additional SB3 for use in my kitchen and
> possibly another SB3 for my bedroom. How does the duet change this
> scenareo.

You could get a duet plus an Sb3, rather than spare receiver, though it
would be $150 more for the convenience of having the display and remote
in the third zone.

Personally I'd put the headless receiver in the kitchen and use the
shared graphical remote for setup and one of the web interfaces on a
laptop for setting up playlists/volume -but I'm cheap.


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alstein
2008-01-06 14:33:58 UTC
Permalink
Skunk;254782 Wrote:
> You could get a duet plus an Sb3, rather than spare receiver, though it
> would be $150 more for the convenience of having the display and remote
> in the third zone.
>
> Personally I'd put the headless receiver in the kitchen and use the
> shared graphical remote for setup and one of the web interfaces on a
> laptop for setting up playlists/volume -but I'm cheap.

I like the term "headless receiver". I'm still stuck at the thought of
having to move the remote controller from one room to another to
control what I play. The cost of an SB3 plus the duet would be $700.00,
as opposed to 600.00 for 2 SB3's, a $100.00 difference in favor of two
SB3's over the duet plus one SB3. If I settled for a duet and one
additional "headless" receiver my cost would be $550.00. So for an
additional $50.00 I think I will stick with the two SB3 route.


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Peter
2008-01-06 06:54:14 UTC
Permalink
alstein wrote:
> Hi
>
> I currently own a SB3 and have it connected to my Main AVR in my Den. I
> was considering purchasing an additional SB3 for use in my kitchen and
> possibly another SB3 for my bedroom. How does the duet change this
> scenareo. Two additional SB3's would include two remotes. It seems to
> me that in order to control the 2 receivers, I would need to move the
> remote controller from room to room. Also, I find the display on the
> SB3 essential. I assume that the controller's display replaces that on
> the receiver. But, again, if I am in one room and my wife is in
> another, then one controller seems insufficient - especially if there
> are relaively long distances between receivers. Am I missing something
> in the product description of the Duet?
>

No, you got it exactly right. It looks cheaper than the old setup but
you'll soon want more controllers and end up paying more in the end. The
marketing types love that kind of thing. You get a lot more
functionality, though. I for one am pretty tired of squinting at my SB
VFD's...

Regards,
Peter
erland
2008-01-06 07:01:32 UTC
Permalink
So just to get this out of the way once for all.
Let's say I'm going to get a new SqueezeBox device, screen or not
doesn't matter, and it will be connected with analogue cables to the
amplifier.

If I'm looking for the best audio quality, but isn't ready to pay for a
Transporter, should I get the SqueezeBox 3 or the new SqueezeBox Duet ?


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EnochLight
2008-01-06 14:08:47 UTC
Permalink
erland;254797 Wrote:
> So just to get this out of the way once for all.
> Let's say I'm going to get a new SqueezeBox device, screen or not
> doesn't matter, and it will be connected with analogue cables to the
> amplifier.
>
> If I'm looking for the best audio quality, but isn't ready to pay for a
> Transporter, should I get the SqueezeBox 3 or the new SqueezeBox Duet ?

Well that all depends on your ears and the quality of your amplifier &
speakers you plan to hook it up to. If it's audiophile-grade and you
are the type of listener who tends to fixate on every nanosecond of
audio coming over the system, then the Squeezebox 3 has a slightly
better signal-to-noise ratio that would technically result in a
slightly better reproduction of sound.

Will most of us notice that over the new Squeezebox Receiver? Not on
your life! I would just go with a new Duet (Squeezebox Receiver and
Controller).

Besides, if your ears are that discerning and your amp/speakers are
super-duper audiophile-grade, then you should have a Transporter. ;-P


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smcint
2008-01-06 14:33:44 UTC
Permalink
EnochLight;254948 Wrote:
> Well that all depends on your ears and the quality of your amplifier &
> speakers you plan to hook it up to. If it's audiophile-grade and you
> are the type of listener who tends to fixate on every nanosecond of
> audio coming over the system, then the Squeezebox 3 has a slightly
> better signal-to-noise ratio that would technically result in a
> slightly better reproduction of sound.
>
> Will most of us notice that over the new Squeezebox Receiver? Not on
> your life! I would just go with a new Duet (Squeezebox Receiver and
> Controller).
>
> Besides, if your ears are that discerning and your amp/speakers are
> super-duper audiophile-grade, then you should have a Transporter. ;-P

Personally I am in exactly this position. I can't justify $2k for a
transporter (would I really hear the difference in my open plan living
room??) but have a pretty decent system -SB3 --> B&K 200.2 -->B&W 804.
I was waiting for the Duet to replace the SB3 and move the SB3 to the
bedroom. The change in DAC has now put the purchase on hold until I see
some reviews.

Sean mentioned measurements - any chance of posting the comparison?

sm


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Marc Sherman
2008-01-06 14:26:25 UTC
Permalink
erland wrote:
> So just to get this out of the way once for all.
> Let's say I'm going to get a new SqueezeBox device, screen or not
> doesn't matter, and it will be connected with analogue cables to the
> amplifier.
>
> If I'm looking for the best audio quality, but isn't ready to pay for a
> Transporter, should I get the SqueezeBox 3 or the new SqueezeBox Duet ?

According to the specs, the SB3 has a marginally better DAC, but it also
has the VFD and headphone amp, which could introduce noise. I'd say we'd
have to get a lab full of golden ears doing a/b tests to know for certain.

- Marc
autopilot
2008-01-06 14:33:27 UTC
Permalink
Looking at the prices, i cant understand why the controler is double the
price of the reciver!


--
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SLIMSERVER:[/B] 7.0 APLHA (WINDOWS XP) + ALIENBBC, SLIMSCROBBLER &
LAST.FM.
*AMP:* CAMBRIDGE AUDIO 640A (LIVING ROOM) / DENON MD30 (BEDROOM).
*SPEAKERS:* MISSION 701'S (LIVING ROOM) / KEF CRESTA 1'S (BEDROOM).
*REMOTE:* T-MOBILE MDA VARIO / HARMONY 525 (IR) / *BETA TESTING JIVE
REMOTE.
[B]Clients:* 1 Squeezebox 3 + Softsqueeze.

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m1abrams
2008-01-06 15:05:52 UTC
Permalink
autopilot;254951 Wrote:
> Looking at the prices, i cant understand why the controler is double the
> price of the reciver!

Why not? The controller has much more expensive components in it than
the receiver. Displays and buttons are not cheap items for any device.
Both have wifi radios, both have memory, but the controller has a color
display and buttons. People think buttons are cheap, but they are
actually rather pricey little things, particularly if you get quality
ones. Pricey as in relative to other parts of the device. Cases are
also another expensive component in any electric device that most
people overlook.

Also why is this announcement getting so much flak? I think it is a
great deal, much cheaper than the competitors and I bet will offer more
configurations. For those that think $300 for a remote is high then
this is not the device for you, for many people into AV gear $300 for a
remote is not bad, particularly a network capable remote. So much more
you can do with a network capable remote.


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Mnyb
2008-01-06 14:46:24 UTC
Permalink
Is lover than the SBR, and thats includes headphone amp and VFD etc, so
this already in the measurments ? and those noise figures is not good
compared to any dvd cd player.
But i think this is the rigth way anyway, the future is digital use the
digital output most people have some kind off HT reciever anyway so this
makes sense to me.
I'm only slightly dissapionted that they don't throw in 24/96 support


Marc Sherman;254950 Wrote:
>
>
> According to the specs, the SB3 has a marginally better DAC, but it
> also
> has the VFD and headphone amp, which could introduce noise. I'd say
> we'd
> have to get a lab full of golden ears doing a/b tests to know for
> certain.
>
> - Marc


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ezkcdude
2008-01-06 15:04:59 UTC
Permalink
Will we be able to get just the receiver w/o the remote?


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ezkcdude
2008-01-06 15:10:12 UTC
Permalink
ezkcdude;254976 Wrote:
> Will we be able to get just the receiver w/o the remote?

I just saw the product page for the receiver. $149! Woo hoo! I'll be
getting one. Thank you to whoever decided to roll out this product. I
had been thinking about getting another SB3, but figured since I had
bought one over two years ago, there must be something new in the works
by now. I guess my patience paid off, and the fact that I already have a
jive remote doesn't hurt.


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erland
2008-01-06 07:09:54 UTC
Permalink
Mitch G;254756 Wrote:
> So, is the Controller programmable (out of the box) ala Logitech Harmony
> products thus making it a universal remote? Or, would such a feature be
> one of those capabilities that would have to come from the community?
>
Since it's based och the Jive Hardware Beta prototype, it can't be as
easily programmable as a Harmony Universal remote unless they have
changed this recently.

IMHO it will never be a good universal remote, the main reasons being
that it has too few hard buttons and not touch screen.

I'm sure the community eventually will bring the necessary
functionality for it to control the devices required for audio playback
through the SqueezeBox, such as turning on/off the amplifier and
selecting correct inputs. But I don't think you should buy this if you
are looking for a universal remote which is able to control every
device in your living room.


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Mitch Harding
2008-01-06 08:00:03 UTC
Permalink
Thanks a lot for the e-mail, Dean -- it clarified a lot of things for
me, and I'm definitely excited about the new products. Keep up the
great work.

On Jan 5, 2008 9:49 PM, dean blackketter <dean-SBQ2+***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> To clear up a little bit about the new product announcement.
>
> There are two new hardware products, the Squeezebox Receiver and the
> Squeezebox Controller. These are available separately, but when
> bought together the bundle is called Squeezebox Duet.
>
> Squeezebox Receiver is based on the existing Squeezebox 2/3 hardware
> platform with the same amount of memory, CPU speed, wireless card,
> etc. In fact the firmware that's running on it is essentially the
> same as on the classic Squeezebox. It lacks a headphone jack and
> uses a different (but quite good) DAC. In place of a VFD display it
> has a single button with an RGB LED behind it. The color of that
> button is under software control and indicates if the device is
> connected and working properly. The button acts as a pause/unpause
> control, or if you press and hold, puts the Receiver into setup mode.
>
> Squeezebox Controller is exactly the same hardware that folks from
> the community have been testing under the code-name "Jive Hardware
> Beta", as discussed here: http://forums.slimdevices.com/
> forumdisplay.php?f=19
>
> It's based on an entirely new ARM-based hardware architecture and a
> new software platform which has been under development as the Jive
> software and will be renamed SqueezeOS.
>
> The Controller uses its built-in 802.11g wireless to talk to
> SqueezeCenter and/or SqueezeNetwork as an alternative way to control
> your Squeezeboxen or Transporter and has nice 2.4" display and enough
> buttons to navigate and play your music on your other devices.
>
> The Controller also has a small built-in speaker and headphone jack
> which are used for sound effects for the user interface. Future
> software updates could make the Controller a player itself, streaming
> your music (or any of the internet radio or music services on
> SqueezeNetwork) to the headphone jack. If and when that software
> update happens, the Duet bundle would be like getting two players in
> one box.
>
> There's also an SD card slot in the unit, an IR transmitter, a 3-axis
> accelerometer and an expansion port on the bottom. What software
> features get added depends largely on what the community comes up
> with, there's already a bunch of neat applets and other software that
> have been created during the beta program.
>
> I'm REALLY excited about these new products. Folks have been asking
> for a couple of new products from us for a while: a less expensive
> Squeezebox and a remote with a display. We did that.
>
> But it gets better. The Squeezebox Controller is based on a totally
> new and open platform for software development. In the same way that
> SqueezeCenter (nee SlimServer) was a platform for our community to
> create new ways of listening to music, Squeezebox Controller and
> SqueezeOS are platforms for building new ways of controlling your
> music and more.
>
> You ain't seen nothing yet.
>
> -dean
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss-***@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
>
seanadams
2008-01-06 02:42:10 UTC
Permalink
erland;254711 Wrote:
> Does the SqueezeBox Controller have a working headphone output ?
>
> What does "Digital passthrough to S/PDIF for DTS" mean on the
> SqueezeBox Controller ?
> It says it support this in the product specification on:
> http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_controller.html

As with Squeezebox and Transporter, the Duet Receiver is able to pass
digital signals through with bit-perfect accuracy. That means is
possible to play non-PCM formats such as DTS or AC3, via the s/pdif
port, to an external receiver which is capable of decoding them.


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EnochLight
2008-01-06 02:53:56 UTC
Permalink
Well I've already sounded off in Mike's sticky thread announcement, but
I'll spout it off again here: $299 for the new Squeezebox Controller
is way too much (although I do agree that the Duet is a much better
deal than Sonos + Sonos remote).

If the new controller was $199 I might have bought two! But to plunk
down 3 bills... Meh... I'll have to wait and see what the general user
feedback is on it.


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mvalera
2008-01-06 03:14:41 UTC
Permalink
The Squeezebox Controller at $299.99 is a great value.

It's a mini linux computer with an ARM processor, built in WiFi, a
Wolfson DAC (same as the receiver), an IR emitter, a headphone jack,
and a SD slot.

Where it is now, and where the developer community takes it in a few
months are 2 different things. I get very excited when I think about
what's possible when the larger community gets it's hands on it and
starts developing plugins and the like for the built-in, but inactive,
hardware features it has.

Mike


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mkozlows
2008-01-06 03:22:56 UTC
Permalink
mvalera;254731 Wrote:
> The Squeezebox Controller at $299.99 is a great value.
>
> It's a mini linux computer with an ARM processor, built in WiFi, a
> Wolfson DAC (same as the receiver), an IR emitter, a headphone jack,
> and a SD slot.
>

That's interesting enough, but from my perspective it's a remote
control that can only control a single device.


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seanadams
2008-01-06 03:28:18 UTC
Permalink
mkozlows;254735 Wrote:
> That's interesting enough, but from my perspective it's a remote control
> that can only control a single device.

That's a bit like saying why would I need a car - my bicycle has wheels
and takes me everywhere I need to go.

So ... if ALL you want is "a remote control that only control a single
device", then just keep the free one that came with your SB3! Duet
does much, much, more, but if the added capabilities are of no value to
YOU, why complain that it's available to everyone else?


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mkozlows
2008-01-06 03:32:02 UTC
Permalink
seanadams;254736 Wrote:
> So ... if ALL you want is "a remote control that only control a single
> device", then just keep the free one that came with your SB3! Duet
> does much, much, more, but if the added capabilities are of no value to
> YOU, why complain that it's available to everyone else?

Hey, I'm not. I'm just saying that declaring it to be a "great value"
based on the materials used in its construction is looking at it from
the wrong perspective. I don't care if it runs Linux, if it uses an
ARM processor, if it has 3GB of RAM -- I care what I can do with it.
And what I can do with it is control a Squeezebox.

If someone says "Wow, $300 is steep for a remote," telling them how
many MIPS it has isn't going to change their mind.


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BenZorg
2008-01-06 03:30:26 UTC
Permalink
mmm I think this controller can control all receivers at the same time,
I mean .. I hope !
With that pack, you've got a cheaper answer from Logitech to counter
the SONOS system !
The main difference remains that with SONOS you can have an amplifier (
we say that in English ? ) included in a device !

The real question to ask is : does this new receiver ( which is not the
SB 4 ! ) is as good as the SB3 with audio ? Does the lack of RAM in
comparaison to the SB3 ( 32 Mb against 64 for SB3 ) will change
something ? Are we going to have some laggy times while listening, or
between tracks ? Like before, when it was the main issue with SB1 !

Thank you for reading, and sorry for my poor english ! I'm glad to join
this Community !


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mvalera
2008-01-06 03:46:44 UTC
Permalink
BenZorg;254737 Wrote:
> mmm I think this controller can control all receivers at the same time,
> I mean .. I hope !
> With that pack, you've got a cheaper answer from Logitech to counter
> the SONOS system !
> The main difference remains that with SONOS you can have an amplifier (
> we say that in English ? ) included in a device !

You can control a house full of Squeezeboxen or Transporters
individually, or you can sync them all to play the same song.

BenZorg;254737 Wrote:
> The real question to ask is : does this new receiver ( which is not the
> SB 4 ! ) is as good as the SB3 with audio ? Does the lack of RAM in
> comparaison to the SB3 ( 32 Mb against 64 for SB3 ) will change
> something ? Are we going to have some laggy times while listening, or
> between tracks ? Like before, when it was the main issue with SB1 !

I've had one on my desk for a few months. I have not been able to
discern any difference in sound quality. So if there is any, I have not
been able to hear it.

Also I have had NO issues with "laggy" sound or dropouts.

Mike


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seanadams
2008-01-06 04:32:28 UTC
Permalink
BenZorg;254737 Wrote:
>
> The real question to ask is : does this new receiver ( which is not the
> SB 4 ! ) is as good as the SB3 with audio ? Does the lack of RAM in
> comparaison to the SB3 ( 32 Mb against 64 for SB3 ) will change
> something ? Are we going to have some laggy times while listening, or
> between tracks ? Like before, when it was the main issue with SB1 !

The RAM is a typo. It's the same as SB3. Same CPU, same buffering, same
audio capabilities and performance.


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Mitch Harding
2008-01-06 03:44:51 UTC
Permalink
A working headphone output on the controller would be a huge value
add, IMO. It could be something akin to the portable SB that people
have been wanting. You'd need to buy some portable speakers, but it
would give you the portability that the SB currently lacks. Any plans
to make the headphone jack functional? Or is that up to the
community?

On Jan 5, 2008 9:14 PM, mvalera
<mvalera.32qvez1199589301-NUepA2SMhDQqspMVqqL2D+4xXEVPTSb/***@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> The Squeezebox Controller at $299.99 is a great value.
>
> It's a mini linux computer with an ARM processor, built in WiFi, a
> Wolfson DAC (same as the receiver), an IR emitter, a headphone jack,
> and a SD slot.
>
> Where it is now, and where the developer community takes it in a few
> months are 2 different things. I get very excited when I think about
> what's possible when the larger community gets it's hands on it and
> starts developing plugins and the like for the built-in, but inactive,
> hardware features it has.
>
> Mike
>
>
> --
> mvalera
>
> Michael Valera
> Online Communities Manager
> Logitech Streaming Media Systems
> slimdevices.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> mvalera's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11086
>
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41805
>
> _______________________________________________
> discuss mailing list
> discuss-***@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss
>
EnochLight
2008-01-06 04:36:59 UTC
Permalink
mvalera;254731 Wrote:
> The Squeezebox Controller at $299.99 is a great value.
>
> It's a mini linux computer with an ARM processor, built in WiFi, a
> Wolfson DAC (same as the receiver), an IR emitter, a headphone jack,
> and a SD slot.
>
> Mike

I completely disagree with this. It's a good value, but nowhere near
"great". My iPhone has most of these features and then some. Sure it
costs $100 more but has a tremendous amount of flexabity and diverse
functions (as well as serves as a cell phone).

Logitech/Slim overpriced the new controller, plain and simple.


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mvalera
2008-01-06 04:43:53 UTC
Permalink
EnochLight;254760 Wrote:
> I completely disagree with this. It's a good value, but nowhere near
> "great". My iPhone has most of these features and then some. Sure it
> costs $100 more but has a tremendous amount of flexabity and diverse
> functions (as well as serves as a cell phone).
>
> Logitech/Slim overpriced the new controller, plain and simple.

Enoch the price is the price. If you don't feel it's worth the money
we're asking, then you can feel free to vote with your wallet.

It's smaller, faster, cheaper and has more functionality than our
competitor's controller. We feel that we have priced it aggressively.
I'm sorry you don't agree.

Mike


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EnochLight
2008-01-06 13:46:53 UTC
Permalink
mvalera;254763 Wrote:
> Enoch the price is the price. If you don't feel it's worth the money
> we're asking, then you can feel free to vote with your wallet.
>
> It's smaller, faster, cheaper and has more functionality than our
> competitor's controller. We feel that we have priced it aggressively.
> I'm sorry you don't agree.
>
> Mike

To be honest Mike, you have nothing to worry about. I'm a gear slut
and will undoubtedly purchase the new Controller the moment it hits
Slim's webstore. :-)

That said, I reserve the right to bitch about the price. ;-P Anyway,
congrats again on the announcement - looking forward to its release!


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JimC
2008-01-06 07:58:02 UTC
Permalink
EnochLight;254760 Wrote:
> I completely disagree with this. It's a good value, but nowhere near
> "great". My iPhone has most of these features and then some. Sure it
> costs $100 more but has a tremendous amount of flexibility and diverse
> functions (as well as serves as a cell phone).
>
> Logitech/Slim overpriced the new controller, plain and simple.

Did you factor in the $79 to $99 per month, two year contract with AT&T
into your assessment of the cost for the Squeezebox Controller vs.
iPhone? That's an additional $1920 in revenue for the iPhone. If'
you'll sign a contract like that with us, we could GIVE you the
Squeezebox Controller and a few rooms worth of Squeezebox Receivers.

In general, most CE companies set the MSRP based on their cost to
manufacture the product. The cell phone companies work differently
because the hardware cost is subsidized by the subscription revenue.

I realize your perception is that we're overpriced, but that would be
function of the SB Controller being over-featured relative to what you
want.

SB3 is still available and works a treat. If you don't feel that Duet
is worth it, you can still use the SB3 with the infrared remote or with
a Nokia 770/800, iPhone, etc. Duet is an extension to the product
family, providing in-hand control of all the SB/TP products in your
home. If you're not doing multi-room audio, or don't want in-hand
control, Duet won't be a good choice for you.


-=> Jim


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Marc Sherman
2008-01-06 14:30:30 UTC
Permalink
JimC wrote:
>
> SB3 is still available and works a treat. If you don't feel that Duet
> is worth it, you can still use the SB3 with the infrared remote or with
> a Nokia 770/800, iPhone, etc. Duet is an extension to the product
> family, providing in-hand control of all the SB/TP products in your
> home. If you're not doing multi-room audio, or don't want in-hand
> control, Duet won't be a good choice for you.

You guys are really getting slammed on this forum by the misconception
that duet==sb4, and the sb3 is now somehow obsolete. You probably should
have done another case-mod like you did with the sb3, and released it as
the new, improved sb4 at the same time. :)

- Marc
auronthas
2008-01-06 07:16:15 UTC
Permalink
mvalera;254731 Wrote:
> The Squeezebox Controller at $299.99 is a great value.
>
> It's a mini linux computer with an ARM processor, built in WiFi, a
> Wolfson DAC (same as the receiver), an IR emitter, a headphone jack,
> and a SD slot.
>
> Where it is now, and where the developer community takes it in a few
> months are 2 different things. I get very excited when I think about
> what's possible when the larger community gets it's hands on it and
> starts developing plugins and the like for the built-in, but inactive,
> hardware features it has.
>
> Mike

Personally I feel that Squeezebox Controller are priced at high side,
screen size is small, no touch screen, web browser feature like iPod
Touch.


--
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Auronthas

Tajima Power Conditioner &#61614; Squeezebox 3 / Cambridge Audio 540C
V2 &#61614; Van den Hul The Source &#61614; Cambridge Audio 540A
&#61614; Van den Hul Goldwater / Ortofon SPK 200 &#61614; Sonus Faber
Concertino Domus

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15727(Nightly release 31 Dec) &#61614; Aztech DSL600EW (ADSL2/2,
Wireless 802.11b/g 125Mbps 4-port ethernet router)

SqueezeCenter Version: Firmware: 84

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erland
2008-01-06 07:45:39 UTC
Permalink
mvalera;254731 Wrote:
> The Squeezebox Controller at $299.99 is a great value.
>
> It's a mini linux computer with an ARM processor, built in WiFi, a
> Wolfson DAC (same as the receiver), an IR emitter, a headphone jack,
> and a SD slot.
>
Before the announcements I had actually imagined the price to be
reversed so the Squeezebox Controller would go around $149 and the
Squeezebox Receiver for $299.

But now when I think about it, it's really the Controller that has the
huge potential. The old SqueezeBox 3 got huge potential because it got
a big display which resulted in all sorts of third party plugins that
used the display for all kinds of information.

The SqueezeBox Receiver doesn't have this potential due to the missing
display.

The SqueezeBox Controller does have this potential and on top of that
it allows third party developers to develop stuff that will execute
directly on the Controller itself. This opens it up for things like
games and other kind of stuff which has never been possible on the
SqueezeBox 3.
However, the real potential of the SqueezeBox Controller IMHO is the SD
slot and the headphone jack. The headphone jack is obviously going to be
enabled, it's just a matter of time, when this happens you will have a
portable SqueezeBox which can be used to listen to music from anywhere
where you have WiFi access.

It might sound a bit strange, but what I'm already waiting for is the
second edition of the SqueezeBox Controller. I'm imagining this will
have a touch screen and the same format as an iPod.

For users that don't already own a SqueezeBox3, the SqueezeBox Duet
looks like a good deal at $399. For people that already owns a
SqueezeBox and just wants a graphical remote, I agree with some people
in this thread that thinks it is a bit overpriced as a graphical
remote. I think the problem is to get people to think of the Controller
as more than a remote control.

I think the main alternative for people that just likes a graphical
remote is going to be the iPod Touch, which is priced exactly the same
(8GB version) and also works as a portable device already now. The
hardware of the iPod Touch is IMHO a lot nicer than the hardware of the
Jive Hardware Beta prototype, although I obviously haven't had the
chance to compare it with the real SqueezeBox Controller yet. The
problem with the iPod Touch is that it currently doesn't allow third
party development and it will never be open sourced in the same way as
the SqueezeBox Controller.


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Phil Meyer
2008-01-06 10:33:00 UTC
Permalink
>However, the real potential of the SqueezeBox Controller IMHO is the SD
>slot and the headphone jack.
>
I can't really see why the headphone jack will be useful. I imagine that the battery life of the controller won't be all that great (like a PDA with wifi running all the time), and the device looks a lot bigger than portable pocket mp3 players.

I assume the remote is like a web browser, accessing SqueezeCenter on a remote server. Will it be able to make use of the SD slot? What potential uses could it be used for?

Phil
seanadams
2008-01-06 02:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Ali-M;254705 Wrote:
> Why go with the Wolfson DAC instead of the Burr-Brown?

The Duet Receiver has no headphone jack or geekport, and also needed
different power supply voltages, so the electrical requirements for the
DAC were completely different. The Wolfson is a newer DAC which better
met those design requirements. Both architecturally and in terms of
measurements they are quite comparable. I can not hear a difference
anyway. The digital audio side, including oscillators and s/pdif
circuitry, are exactly the same as Squeezebox 3.


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mvalera
2008-01-06 03:19:57 UTC
Permalink
It is there, but it is up to the community to decide what to do with
it.

Out of the box it is inactive.

Mike


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pichonCalavera
2008-01-06 03:16:06 UTC
Permalink
erland Wrote:
>
> Does the SqueezeBox Controller have a working headphone output ?
>

Mitch Harding;254713 Wrote:
>
> No headphone output is listed on the spec page, so I'm guessing there
> is not one.
>

But what is 'that hole'
(http://www.slimdevices.com/images/controller_hero_500.jpg) in the top
of the Squeezebox Controller picture shown on the main 'SBC page'
(http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_controller.html)?, it seems like a
headphone output, but maybe it has another purpose?


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mvalera
2008-01-06 01:00:26 UTC
Permalink
For the price of Sonos cheapest one room setup, you can get a Squeezebox
Duet and two additional Receivers with $50 left over.

Three rooms v.s. one... I'd say that's fair! ;P

Mike


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Peter
2008-01-06 06:47:21 UTC
Permalink
mvalera wrote:
> For the price of Sonos cheapest one room setup, you can get a Squeezebox
> Duet and two additional Receivers with $50 left over.
>
> Three rooms v.s. one... I'd say that's fair! ;P
>

Yeah, that's a nice option. But then after that first buy you'd end up
wanting two extra controllers...
I suppose that's what you're all counting on ;)

Regards,
Peter
doundounba
2008-01-06 01:04:57 UTC
Permalink
So... This product looks good!

I do wish they'd make another combo available (at less than the sum of
the individual prices): { SB3 + new controller } for maybe... $500?

At $299, the controller does seem a little expensive compared to, say,
an N800, but I'd probably want one...


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Peter
2008-01-06 07:10:05 UTC
Permalink
mvalera wrote:
> One note about the SB Receiver, is that it requires the Controller for
> network setup. You can't just buy one on it's own. It's for adding
> extra rooms.

Hi Michael,

How does the controller communicate with the SBR when the network
connection is not yet up? Over wifi or infrared?

Will this new setup method be 'ported' to the old SB3?

Regards,
Peter
mvalera
2008-01-06 07:30:59 UTC
Permalink
Peter;254800 Wrote:
> mvalera wrote:
> > One note about the SB Receiver, is that it requires the Controller
> for
> > network setup. You can't just buy one on it's own. It's for adding
> > extra rooms.
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> How does the controller communicate with the SBR when the network
> connection is not yet up? Over wifi or infrared?
>
> Will this new setup method be 'ported' to the old SB3?
>
> Regards,
> Peter

Here's my non-engineering explanation...

When the Receiver has a blinky red light on the front, you choose "Set
Up Squeezbox" on the Controller. Then you see a list of receivers
(likely only one unless you are in our offices) and click on it to set
it up.

I assume it's setting up an ad-hoc wireless connection between the
Controller and Receiver for the setup, engineers can you help with
that?

There no reason to port it to the SB3 because you set that up on the
VFD screen.

Mike


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Peter
2008-01-06 07:49:38 UTC
Permalink
mvalera wrote:
> Peter;254800 Wrote:
>
>> mvalera wrote:
>>
>>> One note about the SB Receiver, is that it requires the Controller
>>>
>> for
>>
>>> network setup. You can't just buy one on it's own. It's for adding
>>> extra rooms.
>>>
>> Hi Michael,
>>
>> How does the controller communicate with the SBR when the network
>> connection is not yet up? Over wifi or infrared?
>>
>> Will this new setup method be 'ported' to the old SB3?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Peter
>>
>
> Here's my non-engineering explanation...
>
> When the Receiver has a blinky red light on the front, you choose "Set
> Up Squeezbox" on the Controller. Then you see a list of receivers
> (likely only one unless you are in our offices) and click on it to set
> it up.
>
> I assume it's setting up an ad-hoc wireless connection between the
> Controller and Receiver for the setup, engineers can you help with
> that?
>
> There no reason to port it to the SB3 because you set that up on the
> VFD screen.
>

You can, but it seems a lot more convenient to enter WPA keys and stuff
from the controller. Also, the controller already knows the network
setup when adding a new SB/TP/SBR, so it could do most of these things
automatically.

Regards,
Peter
JimC
2008-01-06 08:04:08 UTC
Permalink
Peter;254800 Wrote:
> mvalera wrote:
> > One note about the SB Receiver, is that it requires the Controller
> for
> > network setup. You can't just buy one on it's own. It's for adding
> > extra rooms.
>
> Hi Michael,
>
> How does the controller communicate with the SBR when the network
> connection is not yet up? Over wifi or infrared?
>
> Will this new setup method be 'ported' to the old SB3?
>
> Regards,
> Peter

It's an ad-hoc 802.11 connection between the Squeezebox Receiver and
the Controller. In theory, the SB3 and Transporter firmware could be
updated to use the same connection, but I'm not familiar enough with
the hardware to answer definitively that it could actually be done.
Theory vs. practice and all that.


-=> Jim


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bpa
2008-01-06 09:16:59 UTC
Permalink
Does the Controller still have the expansion port that was on the beta
units ?


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SlimPvC
2008-01-06 10:56:20 UTC
Permalink
mvalera;254692 Wrote:
> Price on the Squeezebox Controller is $299.99 US.

I find it quite hard to believe that the prices for Europe are exactly
the same in Euros as the american prices in Dollars. That means the
European version is about 40% too expensive. I guess I would not
hesitate buying for the US price, but the EURO price is over the top
for me.

Peter


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Mnyb
2008-01-06 11:51:20 UTC
Permalink
The price hike in sweden is "only" 20% due to our higher VAT.
If take the sales tax in consideration you have "only" 20-30% to high
price, still evil :-/
But not off the scale as 40%


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bhaagensen
2008-01-06 12:23:08 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

first of all congrats on the new hardware. Been following the
development for a while, and it is all very exiting news.

Question:

Does the controller work over normal TCP/IP ? So that it can connect
from any location ? Can it connect directly to the squeezenetwork ? Is
tunneling over SSH possible?

Thanks for any answers.

Ramblings:

I too think the price of the controller is a bit steep. But.

1. Mobile phones are priced very differently, and the least one should
do is compare with the total cost, i.e. including mandatory 6/12/...
month subscription.

2. Most phones, and in particular the OS they are running have HUGE
turnovers.

3. That the hardware is advanced does not alone justify the price for
an end user, and the argument that functionality could/can/will be
extended by the community is dubious to say the least...

4. But think about what you are getting (I hope). A unique graphical
color interface, presumably optimized and fully integrated with the
rest of the slim-systems and specifically designed for the purpose. The
nerds among us will always have this naggering thought that our
symbian/iphone/embedded linux/pda could do the job just as well. But
the fact is that currently none other alternative will provide what the
new controller does in terms of "system completeness". Whether that's
worth 300$ or not compared to more home-made but functionality wise
equivalent solutions is the question that I am asking myself.

Regards Bjorn


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Michael Herger
2008-01-06 12:41:23 UTC
Permalink
> Does the controller work over normal TCP/IP ? So that it can connect
> from any location ?

Yes.

> Can it connect directly to the squeezenetwork ? Is

Yes.

> tunneling over SSH possible?

Yes. Though you'll need a different machine to do the tunneling. But I wondered when someone would come up with a solution to use the Controller itself to do it... It comes with a SSH server installed - most of the SSH libraries should already be in place to get the client running, too.

Michael
Paul_B
2008-01-06 12:01:09 UTC
Permalink
I'll chip in my thoughts on the announcement. The controller looks nice
but I can't help thinking an iPod Touch would be more useful and have
greater capability for an existing SB3 owner. The current iPeng
interface that Pippin is developing is excellent and makes user of the
larger screen from iPod Touch / iPhone. My only critiscm is the
interface is a bit slow but I am sure this will improve especially when
Apple actually release an SDK.

However, one thing I did note on the spec sheet was the "3-axis
accelerometer" now that sounds interesting. Maybe we'll see Wii style
control?

But at £220 that is too close to the selling price of an iPod Touch
16GB. I won't be rushing to buy one until I've see quite a few reviews.
Still looking forward to an SB4 with a display


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Mnyb
2008-01-06 12:12:28 UTC
Permalink
Could be used to "shake" forward the next song or next cover in the
window or something like that, as you have 3 directions it could be
quite cool


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CardinalFang
2008-01-06 13:10:13 UTC
Permalink
Paul_B;254895 Wrote:
> But at £220 that is too close to the selling price of an iPod Touch
> 16GB.

I was on the beta programme and I must admit, this mirrors my thoughts.
It's a potentially OK piece of kit, but at the suggested price, I would
spring for the iTouch, it can even do VoIP calls now on top of having
WiFi and an SDK for apps and the interface is much, much better than
the new controller. OK, it's not a dedicated controller for the
Squeezebox, so not a valid comparison perhaps, but given £300 to spend
today, I would put it there, not on a Squeezebox controller.

The scroll wheel on the beta controller is bad and the buttons are in
the wrong places. It's big, has too many options and is frustrating to
use. I'm also disappointed that the new receiver is lower spec than the
old Squeezebox.

I do feel slightly unfaithful for saying this though, I did get a
controller as part of the beta programme, for which I am grateful for
being given the chance, and perhaps it's living through that sometimes
painful process that has tainted me, but my feeling right now is that
the interface is still not good enough. It's clunky, unreliable and
slow. My wife refuses to use it and has gone back to the old remote. I
struggle on, but end up with the old remote most times - or sadly,
using an Apple remote with Front Row on a MacBook Pro that is damn near
silent. It obviously costs a lot more, but it is much more usable for
me.

Perhaps I should wait for product before further comment, but I feel it
really needs to be a whole lot slicker - and I agree with the poster who
said that the fact that it is full of unused, potentially exciting
hardware is not a plus point. If I buy a phone and am told that it has
great GPS, but I can't use it yet until I write some software for it,
that doesn't make it a bargain. It maybe exciting for geeks, but for
consumers it's a complete misfire.

Gut reaction - a missed opportunity that won't steal many Sonos sales.
The software isn't finished, it's still trying to appeal to the geeks
and the new hardware should be better than the old, not "good" as was
quoted elsewhere. Slim is meant to be the audiophile player vendor.


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autopilot
2008-01-06 13:35:20 UTC
Permalink
CardinalFang;254924 Wrote:
> I was on the beta programme and I must admit, this mirrors my thoughts.
> It's a potentially OK piece of kit, but at the suggested price, I would
> spring for the iTouch, it can even do VoIP calls now on top of having
> WiFi and an SDK for apps and the interface is much, much better than
> the new controller. OK, it's not a dedicated controller for the
> Squeezebox, so not a valid comparison perhaps, but given £300 to spend
> today, I would put it there, not on a Squeezebox controller.
>
> The scroll wheel on the beta controller is bad and the buttons are in
> the wrong places. It's big, has too many options and is frustrating to
> use. I'm also disappointed that the new receiver is lower spec than the
> old Squeezebox.
>
> I do feel slightly unfaithful for saying this though, I did get a
> controller as part of the beta programme, for which I am grateful for
> being given the chance, and perhaps it's living through that sometimes
> painful process that has tainted me, but my feeling right now is that
> the interface is still not good enough. It's clunky, unreliable and
> slow. My wife refuses to use it and has gone back to the old remote. I
> struggle on, but end up with the old remote most times - or sadly,
> using an Apple remote with Front Row on a MacBook Pro that is damn near
> silent. It obviously costs a lot more, but it is much more usable for
> me.
>
> Perhaps I should wait for product before further comment, but I feel it
> really needs to be a whole lot slicker - and I agree with the poster who
> said that the fact that it is full of unused, potentially exciting
> hardware is not a plus point. If I buy a phone and am told that it has
> great GPS, but I can't use it yet until I write some software for it,
> that doesn't make it a bargain. It maybe exciting for geeks, but for
> consumers it's a complete misfire.
>
> Gut reaction - a missed opportunity that won't steal many Sonos sales.
> The software isn't finished, it's still trying to appeal to the geeks
> and the new hardware should be better than the old, not "good" as was
> quoted elsewhere. Slim is meant to be the audiophile player vendor.

My thoughts exactly. The beta Controlers firmware does not cut the
mustard, its a ball ache to use. But given it's been offcially annouced
now they must think its close to being ready, which supprises me.

One thing i will say is that i am very supprised that the release
version is the same as the btea - i was expecting something much
slicker, although it's just about fine as it is.

But i will try and take the glass half full attitude regarding the
inactive headphone socket, which could be great - a feature i would
love to have working. They obviously ran short on development time, but
i am glad its not been removed.

But congrats to all at Logitech/SD. I really think this is the way
forward for you, just dont kill the SB3 too soon. I want a screen in
the main room, but i will by a Duel receiver for satelite listening
area's.


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Peter
2008-01-06 06:59:30 UTC
Permalink
smcint wrote:
> See the news on gizmodo
>
> http://gizmodo.com/341045/logitech-makes-grab-at-sonos-audience-with-squeezebox-duet
>
> Edit: I want one.. but how does it sounds? Is the DAC etc. the same as
> the SB3?
>

Cool, I got one of my wishes/predictions, the 'blind' SB, now I'm still
waiting for the complement: A separate ethernet controlled display ;)

Regards,
Peter

PS: I told you about the single button on the front!
signor_rossi
2008-01-06 12:29:41 UTC
Permalink
Peter;254796 Wrote:
>
> Cool, I got one of my wishes/predictions, the 'blind' SB, now I'm still
>
> waiting for the complement: A separate ethernet controlled display ;)
>
> Regards,
> Peter
>

Real Ethernet controlled displays are way to expensive now and will
stay so for a long time.

But with the SlimserverControl plugin for Amarok in conjunction with my
Noki770 and VNC I already had the system you probably think of. Nice big
screen and responsive UI with lots of functionality provided by Amarok
itself or by its' plugins, but it had also some very rough edges too,
though. I really dream of a Phonon backend for the SBR or the SB now
that KDE4 comes out.

Bye, signor_rossi.


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