Can't seam to assign alt+F1 to pop up the kmenu???? [Kubuntu Intrepid alpha 6]

[Joe(theWordy)Philbrook]

Just installed alpha 6 from the alt install image...

I'm definitely not used to KDE4, so I don't know how much of what I'm
having difficulty with is KDE4 and how much is Intrepid specific...

But I have some issues with my first experience with it. I'm not talking
about the unexpected application crashes that I figure are just part of
trying an alpha release.

The first issue I have with it is that I can't find a way to assign a
keyboard shortcut to pull up the Kmenu...

When I first tried to do this I thought it would be as simple as opening
the kcontrol panel and fining the action "popup launch menu" and
assigning the <alt>+<F1> shortcut. But I couldn't start kcontrol.

I had already gotten rid of the vista like thing that the start menu
button uses by default nowadays, so it took a bit to find out which menu
setting to use so that the kmenu would include the current tool that does
the job of kcontrol... ( I never liked the click on the icon
selection mechanism and this doesn't seam to offer much for
keyboard centric controls but once thing are configured I
shouldn't need to go here much Though when I do I'll have to
figure out how to find it all over again because the only
kmenu setting that includes it outside of the favorites list
that I expect it to have expired from, doesn't have much else.
And since I don't know it's command name I haven't a clue how
to menu edit it into the standard applications style kmenu.

But anyway when I finally found the commandnameless control
center, and discovered that keyboard shortcuts were no longer
under the heading of regional & accessibility. I then
discovered that the shortcut assignment method was more mouse
intensive That is with kcontrol I could use the keyboard to
scroll down the list of actions, eliminate the MANY that I
didn't want with <alt>+N. IE since I can close a window from the window
operations menu which I set to a comfortable shortcut, I do
not want any shortcut assigned to close, max, Min, shade, or for
that matter kill window actions. eliminating these with this
point n click intensive method was far more cumbersome.
And at first I was simply taken aback by the fact that I
wasn't finding an action labeled popup launch menu... Then
when I eventually looked under the kde component called plasma
(what is plasma????) I found to actions one that said
<alt>+<F1> was assigned to something called "Application
Launcher" and the other that said <ctrl>+<F12> would show
dashboard...

Well <ctrl>+<F12> did pop up something I guess is the so
called dashboard (and disappeared the taskbar. Fortunately it
was a toggle so I got my task bar back easy enough. BUT
NOTHING happens when I press <Alt>+<F1> whatsoever.

I also can't find a way to get rid of that mini display area
labeled desktop on what I think of as the desktop. Nor a way to
ditch that %&%)*&%)*& yellow notes: (I never liked paper
postit notes either) If I want to keep notes I'll simply keep
them in text files I can open with any dang editor I choose. I
want that thing off my desktop...

Like I said at the beginning, since I've never used kde4, I have
no idea how much of this is kde4 and how much is Intrepid.
All I can say is "YUCK!" I just hope kubuntu outgrows this
"thing" before support for Hardy vanishes. Cause I sure don't
plan on migrating to THIS environment...

[Willy K. Hamra]

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
Just installed alpha 6 from the alt install image...
I'm definitely not used to KDE4, so I don't know how much of what I'm
having difficulty with is KDE4 and how much is Intrepid specific...
But I have some issues with my first experience with it. I'm not talking
about the unexpected application crashes that I figure are just part of
trying an alpha release.
The first issue I have with it is that I can't find a way to assign a
keyboard shortcut to pull up the Kmenu...
When I first tried to do this I thought it would be as simple as opening
the kcontrol panel and fining the action "popup launch menu" and
assigning the <alt>+<F1> shortcut. But I couldn't start kcontrol.
I had already gotten rid of the vista like thing that the start menu
button uses by default nowadays, so it took a bit to find out which menu
setting to use so that the kmenu would include the current tool that does
the job of kcontrol... ( I never liked the click on the icon
selection mechanism and this doesn't seam to offer much for
keyboard centric controls but once thing are configured I
shouldn't need to go here much Though when I do I'll have to
figure out how to find it all over again because the only
kmenu setting that includes it outside of the favorites list
that I expect it to have expired from, doesn't have much else.
And since I don't know it's command name I haven't a clue how
to menu edit it into the standard applications style kmenu.
But anyway when I finally found the commandnameless control
center, and discovered that keyboard shortcuts were no longer
under the heading of regional & accessibility. I then
discovered that the shortcut assignment method was more mouse
intensive That is with kcontrol I could use the keyboard to
scroll down the list of actions, eliminate the MANY that I
didn't want with <alt>+N. IE since I can close a window from the window
operations menu which I set to a comfortable shortcut, I do
not want any shortcut assigned to close, max, Min, shade, or for
that matter kill window actions. eliminating these with this
point n click intensive method was far more cumbersome.
And at first I was simply taken aback by the fact that I
wasn't finding an action labeled popup launch menu... Then
when I eventually looked under the kde component called plasma
(what is plasma????) I found to actions one that said
<alt>+<F1> was assigned to something called "Application
Launcher" and the other that said <ctrl>+<F12> would show
dashboard...
Well <ctrl>+<F12> did pop up something I guess is the so
called dashboard (and disappeared the taskbar. Fortunately it
was a toggle so I got my task bar back easy enough. BUT
NOTHING happens when I press <Alt>+<F1> whatsoever.
I also can't find a way to get rid of that mini display area
labeled desktop on what I think of as the desktop. Nor a way to
ditch that %&%)*&%)*& yellow notes: (I never liked paper
postit notes either) If I want to keep notes I'll simply keep
them in text files I can open with any dang editor I choose. I
want that thing off my desktop...
Like I said at the beginning, since I've never used kde4, I have
no idea how much of this is kde4 and how much is Intrepid.
All I can say is "YUCK!" I just hope kubuntu outgrows this
"thing" before support for Hardy vanishes. Cause I sure don't
plan on migrating to THIS environment...

KDE4 has it's problems all right, and so is intrepid, but you're just
being harsh. have you read the list of known bugs?
http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/alpha6

it says that keyboard shortcuts have problems, and clearly states how to
fix this.

kcontrol is gone for ever i assume, it doesn't exist anymore, get over
it, there are other ways to change settings around the system, and
systemsettings is there for a reason.

apparently, you are very confused about KDE4 and dislike so many of it's
features because you are missing the one and probably most important
feature in KDE4, PLASMA! everything around you on the screen (almost
everything) is a plasmoid. the k-menu included. and so are the other
stuff around the desktop you hate. right-click the desktop, and click
add widget, click unlock widgets if you couldn't find the add widgets
menu entry. now you can remove and add widgets from there. (widgets are
plasmoids) you can remove the default k-menu and add the old k-menu if
you want, and put anything you like! plasma is a very fun thing to mess
and play around with. i compiled and installed the win-embed plasmoid
http://ksvladimir.blogspot.com/2008/06/converting-any-window-into-plasmoid.html,
i can't live without it now. the thing labeled desktop is the plasmoid
called pager BTW.

KDE4 is still in development, and so is intrepid, it got it's flaws, but
no, it's not yuck at all. i like it with all it's bugs and huger
cockroaches. i do have some issues with some apps missing with no
similar alternatives, like kooka for example. but it's good, it works, i
chat, i browse the net, i print, i collaborate with others using samba
shares, i use IRC, i scan using xsane (not exactly kooka, but still
decent), i read email on thunderbird, and i play games! it hasn't
crashed a single time, i started using it in alpha5, apps crash
sometimes, but not the apps i'm using, usually background processes are
the ones that crash a lot. and apport is very helpful for identifying
them. so basically, IT WORKS! it still can't do rocket science projects,
but that's not what almost all ppl's daily uses are!
--
Willy K. Hamra
Manager of Hamra Information Systems
Co. Manager of Zeina Computer & Billy Net
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[claydoh]

On Tuesday 23 September 2008 3:52:33 pm Willy K. Hamra wrote:

<snippage>

Post by Willy K. Hamra
i do have some issues with some apps missing with no
similar alternatives, like kooka for example. but it's good, it works, i
chat, i browse the net, i print, i collaborate with others using samba
shares, i use IRC, i scan using xsane (not exactly kooka, but still
decent),

try skanlite for scanning . Not clunky (imo) like kooka is, but not as complex
as xsane. I don't know why it isn't installed by default. I am going to
suggest it

[Joe(theWordy)Philbrook]

Post by claydoh
try skanlite for scanning . Not clunky (imo) like kooka is, but not as complex
as xsane. I don't know why it isn't installed by default. I am going to
suggest it

Until Willy mentioned it I hadn't even noticed that kooka was
unavailable... But it would have frustrated me soon. Thanks for
mentioning a possible replacement... Thanks!

[Joe(theWordy)Philbrook]

Post by Willy K. Hamra
KDE4 has it's problems all right, and so is intrepid, but you're just
being harsh. have you read the list of known bugs?
http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/alpha6

OK perhaps I was being a bit harsh, But it felt harsh to me. It seams
like all control settings are going to be primarily made with the rodent
in hand. Which annoys me a bit because I lack some of the hand/eye/screen
coordination needed to use the dang thing well. I do a little better with
track balls but even then it's usually easier for me to type 30 or forty
words than to get the gosh durned rodent accurately pointed at anything I
need to click on. (and that's not to say I consider myself a typist... If
it weren't for spell check, even I wouldn't know what I typed most of the
time...)

And I'll confess I hadn't read the bug list... Thanks for the url ;-)

Post by Willy K. Hamra
it says that keyboard shortcuts have problems, and clearly states how to
fix this.

IF that's what was meant by the expression "some keys might misbehave in X",
then I suppose it shouldn't be hard too set the keyboard model to "Generic
Evdev-managed"...

Post by Willy K. Hamra
kcontrol is gone for ever i assume, it doesn't exist anymore, get over
it, there are other ways to change settings around the system, and
systemsettings is there for a reason.

<Sigh> Yeah I figured kcontrol was gone I liked it too much, and that
usually spell the end of things {Though how the Nielsens seam to know
which shows I've just begun to like, so they can kill them off so
promptly I'll never know...:-( } And while I dislike the point'n click
intensive style of windowfull of icons that seams to have replaced it. I
CAN, given enough time, make the few settings I need to with it.

I'm not sure if the way you typed "systemsettings" as on word implies a
command name that will call it up from the run prompt the way kcontol
used to call up the old control center or not but next time I boot
intrepid I'll sure find out.

Post by Willy K. Hamra
apparently, you are very confused about KDE4 and dislike so many of it's
features because you are missing the one and probably most important
feature in KDE4, PLASMA! everything around you on the screen (almost
everything) is a plasmoid. the k-menu included. and so are the other
stuff around the desktop you hate. right-click the desktop, and click
add widget, click unlock widgets if you couldn't find the add widgets
menu entry. now you can remove and add widgets from there. (widgets are
plasmoids) you can remove the default k-menu and add the old k-menu if
you want, and put anything you like! plasma is a very fun thing to mess
and play around with. i compiled and installed the win-embed plasmoid
http://ksvladimir.blogspot.com/2008/06/converting-any-window-into-plasmoid.html,
i can't live without it now. the thing labeled desktop is the plasmoid
called pager BTW.

Maybe that is something to do with my problem. I don't actually think
visually. I usually configure kde to not even allow icons on my desktop.
I open MOST applications from the run prompt or call them from a konsole
command line. When I'm done actively using an application that I don't
want to terminate, I minimize it, when I can finally see an unimpeded view
of my "wallpaper" I know I've completed all the tasks I set up to do on
that desk top. When I get an unimpeded view of the "wallpaper" on all 4
of my desktops, I know it's time to decide if I'm going to use my PC to
"play", watch TV, or check with my lady about what she'd like us to do...
To me it seams like these plasmoids are just a way to have what I'd call
fancy semi-interactive icons cluttering up my background image when I
don't have any non-minimized open windows in the way. In which case I
don't want them. Especially if I gotta control them with the (to me)
laborious, time consuming process of manipulating the &%&*)%^& rodent
into just the right position to click, right click etc.. to do something
that I used to be able to do (most of) with just my keyboard.

When you say I can put back the old kmenu do you mean the whole thing?
Or do you mean the several separate pieces of it that seem to coincide
with the "categories" you get when you select one of the horizontal row
of buttons that line the bottom of the new style k-menu... I don't feel
like it's the old k-menu when I gotta right click on the menu start
button to change the currently displayed category. A process that for me
is both time consuming and laborious to wrestle with the ^%^(&% rodent
until I finally have the pointer on just the right spot so I can HOPE I
don't accidentally let it drift to far from the spot while I try to
"click" on it.. {took me almost 2 minutes just to successfully right
click on the k-menu start button, and select the old k-menu style} And
that didn't count selecting a category... Speaking of which, I couldn't
find a setting that defaulted to displaying ALL of the said categories...

I suppose that IF I can figure out the actual the command names of all
those menu items that I don't use enough to just remember what to type at
the run prompt to invoke them, then I could pick the k-menu style I liked
best and then use menu edit to add in all the choices from the other
categories, But I'm doubtful that KDE would automatically add new menu
items to it for newly installed software that happened to normally get
inserted into one of the other categories.

Post by Willy K. Hamra
KDE4 is still in development, and so is intrepid, it got it's flaws, but
no, it's not yuck at all. i like it with all it's bugs and huger
cockroaches. i do have some issues with some apps missing with no
similar alternatives, like kooka for example. but it's good, it works, i
chat, i browse the net, i print, i collaborate with others using samba
shares, i use IRC, i scan using xsane (not exactly kooka, but still
decent), i read email on thunderbird, and i play games! it hasn't
crashed a single time, i started using it in alpha5, apps crash
sometimes, but not the apps i'm using, usually background processes are
the ones that crash a lot. and apport is very helpful for identifying
them. so basically, IT WORKS! it still can't do rocket science projects,
but that's not what almost all ppl's daily uses are!

Well I'm glad somebody finds it useful. But to me anytime mouse
intensive control methods supplant rather than supplement existing
keyboard control methods it is very much a "yuck"... As is every time an
existing list of selectable text items is supplanted with icon _ONLY_
views of the same selections. The original reason why I chose kde
instead of gnome was that back then, kde tended to organize things in
menu choices, where I could find things even when I didn't know they existed
prior to my browsing the menu. And when I'd ask a gnome user how the
heck they did something in gnome I invariably was told that I just needed to
put the mouse someplace { that usually wasn't labeled } and right click on it
to get a pop-up choice to do what I wanted... DANG IT! I hates computer
rodents more than Yosemite Sam ever hated rabbits...

[Sylviane et Perry White]

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
OK perhaps I was being a bit harsh, But it felt harsh to me. It seams
like all control settings are going to be primarily made with the rodent
in hand. Which annoys me a bit because I lack some of the hand/eye/screen
coordination needed to use the dang thing well. I do a little better with
track balls but even then it's usually easier for me to type 30 or forty
words than to get the gosh durned rodent accurately pointed at anything I
need to click on. (and that's not to say I consider myself a typist... If
it weren't for spell check, even I wouldn't know what I typed most of the
time...)

Joe,
I have a feeling you have past the point where a computer novice gets lost
when the mouse reaches the edge of the table before the pointer reaches its
target (very funny).
Also using shortcuts instead of mouse is good practice.

Still there are cases where the easyest way is to move the pointer or focus.
I don't know what applies in your case but I would consider:
1) "Ball" mice may not roll smoothly, sometimes they need cleaning (not just
the ball as manufacturer tell, but the shafts it rools against)
2) Settings for the mouse may be adapted to your needs (speed, acceleration)
3) Tabulator and arrows (up, down, left, right), in conjunction with other
keys (alt, shift, ctrl...) may change the focus... sorry, can't tell you all
the details because *I* rather use the mouse than remember this stuff.
4) It is even possible to move the pointer anywhere without a mouse, I just
don't remember how :0(

I hope some of this can help you, but you may have had a necessity to learn
all this much better than I.


As a sidenote, for a seamless integration of your mails in this list, since
you talk about spell checkers and you appear (I don't want to use the word
"seam" ;0) ) to use this very word "seam" quite often, I will advise you
not to trust your spell checker
(it doe's not spell the end of things :P because of a spell casted on
all primitive spell checkers so that they are unable to take the context
into account to flag out a correctly spelled world that shouldn't belong
here)
on that world and use "seem" or "appear" instead. Your wife may use the word
"seam" if she is a dressmaker or she does some sewing. YMMV ;P

Greetings Perry

[Joe(theWordy)Philbrook]

Post by Sylviane et Perry White

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
OK perhaps I was being a bit harsh, But it felt harsh to me. It seams
like all control settings are going to be primarily made with the rodent
in hand. Which annoys me a bit because I lack some of the hand/eye/screen
coordination needed to use the dang thing well. I do a little better with
track balls but even then it's usually easier for me to type 30 or forty
words than to get the gosh durned rodent accurately pointed at anything I
need to click on. (and that's not to say I consider myself a typist... If
it weren't for spell check, even I wouldn't know what I typed most of the
time...)

Joe,
I have a feeling you have past the point where a computer novice gets lost
when the mouse reaches the edge of the table before the pointer reaches its
target (very funny).

What? You mean I didn't have to get a bigger desk and a mouse with an
extra long cord after all???? <snicker>

Yeah I do hope I'm past that point. Actually I'm not so much a novice as
set in my ways...

Post by Sylviane et Perry White
Also using shortcuts instead of mouse is good practice.
Still there are cases where the easiest way is to move the pointer or focus.
1) "Ball" mice may not roll smoothly, sometimes they need cleaning (not just
the ball as manufacturer tell, but the shafts it rools against)

That's a big 10-4, In fact my track ball does sometimes have that
problem. Every now and again I tip it upside down (catch the ball) and
spray the Redmond out of it's guts with a can of air... The rodent usually
works a little smoother afterwards. But it still doesn't help me keep the
pointer in between the lines... Though to tell the truth I may have
exaggerated (slightly) as at times I can make it work a little easier.
but if I spend much time with it, my hands start to go numb, and once
that happens it's a hopeless cause. Funny that, I can keypunch for hours
without such problems, But it only takes a few minutes trying to control
the mouse... <sigh>

Post by Sylviane et Perry White
2) Settings for the mouse may be adapted to your needs (speed, acceleration)

I do slow it down some. But if I gotta drag n drop something with it set
too dang slow, the finger on the button is bound to wiggle before I get
there...

Post by Sylviane et Perry White
3) Tabulator and arrows (up, down, left, right), in conjunction with other
keys (alt, shift, ctrl...) may change the focus... sorry, can't tell you all
the details because *I* rather use the mouse than remember this stuff.

If you mean inside an application to move between fields and/or tabs,
then I think it usually works But I keep forgetting when to switch to the
arrow keys... I put a lot more faith in a labeled fields with an
underscored character in the fieldname being reached via
<alt>+{the underscored character}

Post by Sylviane et Perry White
4) It is even possible to move the pointer anywhere without a mouse, I just
don't remember how :0(

Actually I do <Now>. I found some of this a long time ago but never had
a clue how to make it work. Which since it was such a pain to find the
complete info when I googled "kde keyboard mouse emulation" I'll list what
I learned here for the benefit of others...

Actually there are two different places where mouse emulation / navigation
is mentioned in the old kcontrol that I'm used to... And you
just inspired me to spend some serious time googling the
subject. Eventually I pieced together that the item kde calls
mouse emulation in the shortcut keys assignment screen (usually
set to <alt>+<F12>) will temporarily tie your cursor keys to
the mouse pointer. The space-bar will generate one single
click and exit mouse emulation. And that is all it can do.
Whereas if you go into the peripherals -> mouse -> mouse navigation,
you can activate num pad mouse nav. Which is then toggled on/off
with a three key <ALT>+<SHIFT>+<numlock>. When on, there are
several control key combination that If used with great care
can do the job. IE all the number keys except 5 & 0 move
the pointer. "Set" {but not click} left, middle, or right button
emulation with "/", "*", & "-" respectively then click with "5" or
double click with "+" The "0" is supposed to emulate holding
the button for drag n drop, the "." is supposed to let go.
But I didn't get stable results from all of that when I tested it.
But if I only use { / 5 } to click, { / 55 } to double-click/mark-word
{ / 555 } to triple-click/mark-line and { * 5 } to paste-marked. While
leaving the other click controls alone I get fairly predictable results
in Hardy... If that works as well elsewhere IE Intrepid, Sabayon, &
OpenSuSE then it will be worth teaching myself to use it consistently.

Post by Sylviane et Perry White
I hope some of this can help you, but you may have had a necessity to learn
all this much better than I.

Actually you motivated me to spend a few hours finding the info I lacked
on Mouse Navigation... Thanks!

Post by Sylviane et Perry White
As a side-note, for a seamless integration of your mails in this list, since
you talk about spell checkers and you appear (I don't want to use the word
"seam" ;0) ) to use this very word "seam" quite often, I will
advise you not to trust your spell checker (it doe's not spell the end
of things :P because of a spell casted on all primitive spell checkers so
that they are unable to take the context into account to flag out a
correctly spelled world that shouldn't belong here) on that world and use
"seem" or "appear" instead. Your wife may use the word "seam" if she is
a dressmaker or she does some sewing. YMMV ;P

Touche! Actually I don't completely trust my spell checker. I know its a
relatively primitive one that doesn't include context checking... But
for similar reasons to why mouse intensive controls bother me I find
most gui spellcheckers annoy me with the need to use corded keys to
select from the pop-up list of suggestions ignore add etc... And often
there is no way, without resorting to the mouse, to actually select the 2nd
suggested word instead of the first. Plus they tend to put their pop-up
dialog box right squarely in front of the context I need to determine
which if any of the suggestions I likely intended to say. AND I prefer
to compose with vim, thus I use the following key bindings in my .vimrc
file to spell check my text with an admittedly simplistic spellchecker
That none-the less catches better than 90 percent of my typos...

:map s :w^M:w! $spellfile^M:!aspell -c $spellfile^M
:map S :w^MG:r $spellfile^Mkd1G

Of course the ^M in the .vimrc are the actual tokens vim generates with
<ctrl>+V <enter>...

[Ignazio Palmisano]

Joe(theWordy)Philbrook wrote:
[snip]

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook

Post by Sylviane et Perry White
1) "Ball" mice may not roll smoothly, sometimes they need cleaning (not just
the ball as manufacturer tell, but the shafts it rools against)

That's a big 10-4, In fact my track ball does sometimes have that
problem. Every now and again I tip it upside down (catch the ball) and
spray the Redmond out of it's guts with a can of air... The rodent usually
works a little smoother afterwards.

I used to open the 'rodent' and scrub the dirt out with whatever tool
was needed or at hand for the job, then I bought mi first optic mouse
and was done with all that mess. Also, I'm saving money in the long run,
I only bought two optical mice in the last 7 years (because I kept
forgetting one in the office or at home while moving the laptop).


But it still doesn't help me keep the

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
pointer in between the lines... Though to tell the truth I may have
exaggerated (slightly) as at times I can make it work a little easier.
but if I spend much time with it, my hands start to go numb, and once
that happens it's a hopeless cause. Funny that, I can keypunch for hours
without such problems, But it only takes a few minutes trying to control
the mouse... <sigh>

I had the same problem when I first started using a computer. Over time
I learned that the problem in my case was that I needed to keep the
whole forearm on the table, so that the hand does not have to push on
the mouse with the weight of the whole arm. Might be worth a try? (I
escaped carpal tunnel syndrome as well that way :)).

HTH,
I.

[Joe(theWordy)Philbrook]

Post by Ignazio Palmisano
[snip]

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook

Post by Sylviane et Perry White
1) "Ball" mice may not roll smoothly, sometimes they need cleaning (not just
the ball as manufacturer tell, but the shafts it rools against)

That's a big 10-4, In fact my track ball does sometimes have that
problem. Every now and again I tip it upside down (catch the ball) and
spray the Redmond out of it's guts with a can of air... The rodent usually
works a little smoother afterwards.

I used to open the 'rodent' and scrub the dirt out with whatever tool
was needed or at hand for the job, then I bought mi first optic mouse
and was done with all that mess. Also, I'm saving money in the long run,
I only bought two optical mice in the last 7 years (because I kept
forgetting one in the office or at home while moving the laptop).

Yeah optical is nice. But given how hard it is to find retailers with
TRACKBALLS I'd have to order it from someplace... I always preferred
getting my hands on something to physically check it out before
purchase... But the next time I replace the durned thing I intend to
shop for an optical version... Perhaps I should get around to it before
the old one dies...

Post by Ignazio Palmisano

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
But it still doesn't help me keep the
pointer in between the lines... Though to tell the truth I may have
exaggerated (slightly) as at times I can make it work a little easier.
but if I spend much time with it, my hands start to go numb, and once
that happens it's a hopeless cause. Funny that, I can keypunch for hours
without such problems, But it only takes a few minutes trying to control
the mouse... <sigh>

I had the same problem when I first started using a computer. Over time
I learned that the problem in my case was that I needed to keep the
whole forearm on the table, so that the hand does not have to push on
the mouse with the weight of the whole arm. Might be worth a try? (I
escaped carpal tunnel syndrome as well that way :)).

Well in my case, NOTHING helped with the mouse ( & I've been using
computers so long my first one (excluding a commodore64) had only 640 KB
of ram...)

Funny you should mention carpal tunnel syndrome, I've been dancing
around that for a long time. I used to "form cables" for AT&T
before they spun off Lucent. This involved a repetitive "sewing"
operation (they didn't like cable ties...)

It was then That I noticed my hands would get numb if I wrote (with a pen
& paper) too long. By the time I stopped forming cables I couldn't
"write" for 15 minutes. But that improved over time and I can write for
about a 1/2 hr or so now... I can usually use the trackball for about the
same time, or an actual mouse for about 15 minutes before that happens.
But if I spend much time trying to be precise (such as trying to stay
between the lines of menu choices to get to a sub menu that opened on the
other side of the menu entry. Or to click on several small icons in a row
and it often takes less than 5 minutes to go numb. Yet somehow I can
keypunch for hours on end before I have that problem... And no, I don't
touch type. I started to take a typing course once, but when I tried to
reach all the right keys with the right fingers I found that numbness
creeping up on me so quickly That I dropped the course and returned to my
peek and poke style where I use whatever finger of whatever hand happens to
be handy at the time while avoiding using the same finger/hand continuously
for very long... And thus can keypunch for many hours... Go figure!

I've suspected for a long time it might be the beginning stages of carpal
tunnel, but by being careful how I use my hands (including avoiding the
rodent as much as possible) I can avoid that numbness. Over time, most
of the symptoms faded. And since I've developed a strong distrust of the
medical system, I've never asked a doctor to check it out.

[Pastor JW]

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
I've suspected for a long time it might be the beginning stages of carpal
tunnel, but by being careful how I use my hands (including avoiding the
rodent as much as possible) I can avoid that numbness. Over time, most
of the symptoms faded. And since I've developed a strong distrust of the
medical system, I've never asked a doctor to check it out.

Best thing I have found for that is simply alfalfa tea! Even if one does not
like tea he'll soon like the effects! Besides the tea tastes good.

[Ric Moore]

Post by Pastor JW

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
I've suspected for a long time it might be the beginning stages of carpal
tunnel, but by being careful how I use my hands (including avoiding the
rodent as much as possible) I can avoid that numbness. Over time, most
of the symptoms faded. And since I've developed a strong distrust of the
medical system, I've never asked a doctor to check it out.

Best thing I have found for that is simply alfalfa tea! Even if one does not
like tea he'll soon like the effects! Besides the tea tastes good.

I bought one of those sliding shelf brackets which I mounted under the
top of my computer desk. Now my mouse and hand using it is lower, and it
really helps. Using a mouse on top of a desk is a killer for the wrist
and arm. Ric

[Pastor JW]

Post by Ric Moore

Post by Pastor JW

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
I've suspected for a long time it might be the beginning stages of
carpal tunnel, but by being careful how I use my hands (including
avoiding the rodent as much as possible) I can avoid that numbness.
Over time, most of the symptoms faded. And since I've developed a
strong distrust of the medical system, I've never asked a doctor to
check it out.

Best thing I have found for that is simply alfalfa tea! Even if one does
not like tea he'll soon like the effects! Besides the tea tastes good.

I bought one of those sliding shelf brackets which I mounted under the
top of my computer desk. Now my mouse and hand using it is lower, and it
really helps. Using a mouse on top of a desk is a killer for the wrist
and arm.

I have one of those as well! Actually my office is the most comfortable place
to sit in the house as everything is set to perfectly fit me! Which is good
as at times I spend 18 hours straight, right there! Carpal tunnel can be
relieved by having keyboards, chairs, armrests, and even the monitor set to
ergonomic height, thereby relieving a lot of strain. However, both my wife
and I avoided surgery for severe carpel tunnel, neither of us could hold a
cup of coffee in one hand, by use of alfalfa tea. Doctors ask us both how we
cured that problem without the surgery they thought was so necessary! They
are amazed at the difference. She works in an office as typist among other
things and she was suffering badly each day she worked on a keyboard, now
there is no problem.

[Ric Moore]

Post by Pastor JW

Post by Ric Moore

Post by Pastor JW

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
I've suspected for a long time it might be the beginning stages of
carpal tunnel, but by being careful how I use my hands (including
avoiding the rodent as much as possible) I can avoid that numbness.
Over time, most of the symptoms faded. And since I've developed a
strong distrust of the medical system, I've never asked a doctor to
check it out.

Best thing I have found for that is simply alfalfa tea! Even if one does
not like tea he'll soon like the effects! Besides the tea tastes good.

I bought one of those sliding shelf brackets which I mounted under the
top of my computer desk. Now my mouse and hand using it is lower, and it
really helps. Using a mouse on top of a desk is a killer for the wrist
and arm.

I have one of those as well! Actually my office is the most comfortable place
to sit in the house as everything is set to perfectly fit me! Which is good
as at times I spend 18 hours straight, right there! Carpal tunnel can be
relieved by having keyboards, chairs, armrests, and even the monitor set to
ergonomic height, thereby relieving a lot of strain. However, both my wife
and I avoided surgery for severe carpel tunnel, neither of us could hold a
cup of coffee in one hand, by use of alfalfa tea. Doctors ask us both how we
cured that problem without the surgery they thought was so necessary! They
are amazed at the difference. She works in an office as typist among other
things and she was suffering badly each day she worked on a keyboard, now
there is no problem.

Thanks!! While an herbal tea discussion may be considered "OT" I'm glad
to have that information! <grins> Every bit helps, Ric

[Joe(theWordy)Philbrook]

Post by Pastor JW
Best thing I have found for that is simply alfalfa tea! Even if one does not
like tea he'll soon like the effects! Besides the tea tastes good.

Thanks for the tip... A quick web search and after several pages about
growing roses (must be different thing called by same name right?)

Found some info on healthy benefits. And reasonable price sale site...

Decided it's worth a try.

Thanks for the suggestion.

[Tycho Andersen]

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
I also can't find a way to get rid of that mini display area
labeled desktop on what I think of as the desktop. Nor a way to
ditch that %&%)*&%)*& yellow notes: (I never liked paper
postit notes either) If I want to keep notes I'll simply keep
them in text files I can open with any dang editor I choose. I
want that thing off my desktop...

Right click, select "Unlock widgets" and then hover your mouse over the
post-it note for a second. A little black bar will appear on the side, with
an (admittedly small) X that you can click to wipe it away forever. This
works with any other widget you have installed as well. When you're done,
right click again and click "Lock widgets".

The lock/unlock distinction is a new one to the KDE configuration world, but
it is growing on me. That said, there are some stability issues, even in
4.1.1.

<shamelessplug>I wrote a short little comparison between KDE 3.5 and 4.1
<http://tycho.ws/pages/kde3v4.shtml></shamelessplug>

Tycho
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[Joe(theWordy)Philbrook]

Post by Tycho Andersen
Right click, select "Unlock widgets" and then hover your mouse over the
post-it note for a second. A little black bar will appear on the side, with
an (admittedly small) X that you can click to wipe it away forever. This
works with any other widget you have installed as well. When you're done,
right click again and click "Lock widgets".
The lock/unlock distinction is a new one to the KDE configuration world, but
it is growing on me. That said, there are some stability issues, even in
4.1.1.
<shamelessplug>I wrote a short little comparison between KDE 3.5 and 4.1
<http://tycho.ws/pages/kde3v4.shtml></shamelessplug>

Well first off thanks for the instruction on how to get rid of annoying
desktop things I don't want to look at... This lock/unlock feature is
going to have a hard time growing on me unless there is a keyboard only
method of doing it... As I mentioned in my reply to Willy, I have
difficulty with the mouse, hence I have little use for icons, things
that only appear while the mouse is hovering in the right spot and
especially "small" click targets.

I looked at your comparison and I gotta say I have very little use for
those tiny icons on the panel, The only thing I ever had use for what I
still call the taskbar is the list of open windows which includes even
minimized ones I might have forgotten about. And the displayed time...
Though I'll admit that if I could find a way to bind a hot key to the
action of clicking on the clock face I'd use the pop-up calender more
often than walking out to the kitchen to look at the one on the wall...

To start applications I generally use the keyboard to select either the
run prompt with <alt>+<F2> to type the ones I can remember how, or pop
open the K-menu with <alt>+<F1> and scroll around it with the cursor
control keys (If I try to use the mouse for that I never can keep the
pointer between the lines long enough to reach the 2nd layer pop-up menu
without accidentally changing focus to sub-menu above or below first...)

I disable almost all shortcuts involving the control of windows except
for the one that opens the windows operations menu which I always set to
<win>+<ctrl>+<space> and if I could delete "shade" from that menu I
would... I dislike click launch icons. I positively hate the way they
replaced the run prompts text based command history with a pop up
display of distracting icons... ( I don't actually think in pictures so to
figure out what each icon means my brain wants to process the proverbial
thousand words) Worse still, The picture somehow gets priority processing
anyway so I can't even read the words that MAY be under it until my
brain gives up trying to process the picture. And woe unto me if some
animation moves while I'm trying to read the text cause trying to read
while something on the screen/page/billboard/etc... is moving rapidly
gives me an intense headache... I think I'd prefer to totally disable ALL
command history/suggestive help of any kind before I'd want all those icons...

If/when I HAVE to convert to this kde4, I think I'm going to have to
reassign <alt>+<F2> to the konsole and waste one of those every time I
want a run prompt... At least I'd have bash's command history, and I
suspect it will be a very long time before konsole starts waving all
those distracting icons at me as I try to type a command.

It is possible that I'll risk using hardy for years after it's
officially unsupported rather than go with kde4... That said, I'll
play with intrepid a bit. Though I don't think I'll want try to get
any work done with it...

[Tycho Andersen]

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
Well first off thanks for the instruction on how to get rid of annoying
desktop things I don't want to look at... This lock/unlock feature is
going to have a hard time growing on me unless there is a keyboard only
method of doing it... As I mentioned in my reply to Willy, I have
difficulty with the mouse, hence I have little use for icons, things
that only appear while the mouse is hovering in the right spot and
especially "small" click targets.

Unless you reconfigure everything a lot, I don't think it will be a
problem. I didn't like it either at first, but after my initial
configuration it's not been an issue at all.

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
If/when I HAVE to convert to this kde4, I think I'm going to have to
reassign <alt>+<F2> to the konsole and waste one of those every time I
want a run prompt... At least I'd have bash's command history, and I
suspect it will be a very long time before konsole starts waving all
those distracting icons at me as I try to type a command.

You might be a great candidate for Yakuake. I'm guessing you've
probably never played the Quake series of videogames, but suffice it
to say that this awesome innovation was derived from there. Yakuake is
a simple app that wraps konsole in a dropdown window. You can bind it
to a global hotkey (in my case the tilda key, the default is F12) and
it will bring down a terminal immediately without startup delays,
because it loads konsole into your main memory when you start KDE. If
you've heard of it and didn't like it, you can ignore this; however I
found it to be a really useful piece of software once I tried it. It's
even available in the repos (it's a KDE 3.5 version for Hardy right
now, though a 4.1 version has been released).

I use Yakuake for most quick terminal work, but I'll start a real
Konsole whenever I need the terminal for an extended period of time.
Since I've been having my own issues with the ALT+F2 menu, I've been
using Yakuake more and more to launch programs (appending an & onto
the end of the command makes it run in the background: firefox &).

Post by Joe(theWordy)Philbrook
It is possible that I'll risk using hardy for years after it's
officially unsupported rather than go with kde4... That said, I'll
play with intrepid a bit. Though I don't think I'll want try to get
any work done with it...

Like anything else, it probably just takes some getting used to. Good luck!

Tycho