The Latest Rumor - Biden out, Clinton in?

[Jeannie]

Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes doesn't
know either. We'll have to wait a week to find out.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp

I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both died in
office, who would become president?

Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi. Great reason
to vote for McCain!

Jeannie
*According to a 1997 General Accounting Office report, households
headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC
benefits and $430 million in food stamps during 1995. How much is it
today, one wonders? And how obvious is it where their allegiance
would lie politically? Doubtless with the hand that hands out....

[Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)]

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:42:27 -0700 (PDT), Jeannie

Post by Jeannie
*According to a 1997 General Accounting Office report, households
headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC
benefits and $430 million in food stamps during 1995. How much is it
today, one wonders? And how obvious is it where their allegiance
would lie politically? Doubtless with the hand that hands out....

While the head of household may be an illegal alien, the Dependent
Children are probably US citizens, as may be the spouse. Had the
Republicans not let Pete Wilson have his way, many Hispanics would be
Republicans. However, after Pete and his proposition, they tend to be
middle-of-the road Democrats. At least the citizens do and they're
the only ones who vote.

Considering what has happened to AFDC in the past 13 years, I suspect
your numbers don't apply. Even in 1995 the majority of AFDC
recipients were Anglos, not people of color.

Mary "Got any more info?"

[Jeannie]

On Sep 24, 10:08 pm, "Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)"

Post by Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:42:27 -0700 (PDT), Jeannie

Post by Jeannie
*According to a 1997 General Accounting Office report, households
headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC
benefits and $430 million in food stamps during 1995.  How much is it
today, one wonders?  And how obvious is it where their allegiance
would lie politically?  Doubtless with the hand that hands out....

While the head of household may be an illegal alien, the Dependent
Children

I think you mispled Anchor Babies.

Post by Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
are probably US citizens, as may be the spouse.  Had the
Republicans not let Pete Wilson have his way, many Hispanics would be
Republicans.  However, after Pete and his proposition, they tend to be
middle-of-the road Democrats.  At least the citizens do and they're
the only ones who vote.

I don't have a cite, but I have heard and do admire (if true) that
most recently-declared U.S. citizens vote on every ballot. I don't
usually care *how* they vote, just that they do it. I just have an
issue if non-citizens are allowed to vote, because they would likely
vote for anything involving social spending.

"If you don't vote, don't complain."

Post by Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)
Considering what has happened to AFDC in the past 13 years, I suspect
your numbers don't apply.  Even in 1995 the majority of AFDC
recipients were Anglos, not people of color.

I didn't say they weren't (and I have no doubt they are); I just
quoted the dollar amounts from the report.

Jeannie
any more red herrings? it's still Opus' birthday!

[Tony Myers www.sedatedape.com (A many splendored thing )]

Post by Jeannie
"If you don't vote, don't complain."

[Veronique]

Post by Jeannie
Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes doesn't
know either. We'll have to wait a week to find out.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp

Hey, here's one that isn't even a rumor, about Sarah "Looney-Pants"
Palin. Talk about someone who's scary!

V.

http://tinyurl.com/3gtu5m


Palin once blessed to be free from 'witchcraft'

By GARANCE BURKE, Associated Press Writer

Wednesday, September 24, 2008

(09-24) 21:27 PDT Anchorage, Alaska (AP) --

A grainy YouTube video surfaced Wednesday showing Sarah Palin being
blessed in her hometown church three years ago by a Kenyan pastor who
prayed for protection from "witchcraft" as she prepared to seek higher
office.

The video shows Palin standing before Bishop Thomas Muthee in the
pulpit of the Wasilla Assembly of God church, holding her hands open
as he asked Jesus Christ to keep her safe from "every form of
witchcraft."

"Come on, talk to God about this woman. We declare, save her from
Satan," Muthee said as two attendants placed their hands on Palin's
shoulders. "Make her way my God. Bring finances her way even for the
campaign in the name of Jesus. ... Use her to turn this nation the
other way around."

Palin formally announced her bid for governor a few months later, in
October 2005.

Palin does not say anything on the video and keeps her head bowed
throughout the blessing. The Republican vice presidential candidate
was baptized at the church but stopped attending regularly in 2002.

A spokesman for the McCain campaign declined to comment. A person who
answered the phone at the Wasilla church confirmed the video was from
May 2005 but declined further comment.

Palin was baptized Roman Catholic as a newborn.

Pentecostals are conservative in their reading of the Bible. Unlike
most other Christians — including most evangelicals — Pentecostals
believe in "baptism in the Holy Spirit." That can manifest itself
through speaking in tongues, modern-day prophesy and faith healing,
which includes the laying on of hands.

Maria Comella, a spokeswoman for the McCain-Palin campaign, has said
Palin attends different churches and does not consider herself
Pentecostal.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep

[Jeannie]

Post by Veronique

Post by Jeannie
Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes doesn't
know either.  We'll have to wait a week to find out.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp

Hey, here's one that isn't even a rumor, about Sarah "Looney-Pants"
Palin. Talk about someone who's scary!

Amen to that, but I'd still take the SFGate article as rumor. There
wasn't a link to the video, was there? Have you seen it? If it's so
"grainy" and she "kept her head bowed" I would assume it's a fake.

But yes, she's still scary. ;)

All of them scare me. That's why I'm still planning to write in Ron
Paul.

Jeannie
still can't figure out why "speaking in tongues" isn't viewed as
"witchcraft"

[Bill Bonde { ''Well, boys, I reckon this is it, nuclear combat toe to toe with the Roosskies'')]

Post by Jeannie

Post by Veronique

Post by Jeannie
Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes doesn't
know either. We'll have to wait a week to find out.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp

Hey, here's one that isn't even a rumor, about Sarah "Looney-Pants"
Palin. Talk about someone who's scary!

Amen to that, but I'd still take the SFGate article as rumor. There
wasn't a link to the video, was there? Have you seen it? If it's so
"grainy" and she "kept her head bowed" I would assume it's a fake.
But yes, she's still scary. ;)
All of them scare me. That's why I'm still planning to write in Ron
Paul.
Jeannie
still can't figure out why "speaking in tongues" isn't viewed as
"witchcraft"

Because it has been part of the Christian Church from its start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia#New_Testament
#begin quote
There are five places in the New Testament where speaking in
tongues is referred to explicitly, and in the last three places the
subject is only mentioned in passing.

* Acts 2, which describes what happened in Jerusalem at
Pentecost.
* 1 Cor 12-14, where Paul discusses speaking in tongues as part
of his wider discussion of the gifts of the Spirit; his remarks
shed some light on his own speaking in tongues as well as how
tongues were spoken in the early church.
* Acts 10:46, when the household of Cornelius in Caesarea spoke
in tongues.
* Acts 19:6, when a group of approximately a dozen men spoke in
tongues in Ephesus.
* Mark 16:17, which records the instructions of Christ to the
apostles, including his promise that ability will be given to speak
in new tongues.

At Pentecost there was a sound like a mighty rushing wind, "divided
tongues like fire" rested on the apostles, they were all filled
with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in languages previously
unknown to them, but recognizable to others present as their own
native language. Glossolalists and cessationists both recognise
this as xenoglossia, a miraculous ability that marked their baptism
in the Holy Spirit. Something similar took place on at least two
subsequent occasions, in Caesarea and Ephesus.

The Apostle Paul instructed the church in Corinth about speaking in
tongues in his discussion of the gifts of the Spirit in a letter to
them. His purpose was to encourage them to value the gift, but not
too highly; to practice it, but not abuse it. In the letter,
although Paul commands church brethren, "Do not forbid speaking in
tongues" (1 Cor 14:39), and that he wishes those to whom he wrote
"all spoke with tongues" (1 Cor 14:5) and claims himself to speak
with tongues more than all of the church at Corinth combined ("I
thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all" 1 Cor 14:18),
he discourages simultaneous speaking in tongues directed at people
rather than God, lest unbelievers think the assembled brethren
"mad" (1 Cor 14:23, 27). Tongues, says Paul, is speaking to God,
rather than men, mysteries in the spirit (1 Cor 14:2), edifies the
tongues-speaker (1 Cor 14:4), is the action of the praying of a
person's spirit (1 Cor 14:14), and serves to bless God and give
thanks (1 Cor 14:16-17).
#end quote

[Richard R. Hershberger]

On Sep 25, 1:46 am, "Bill Bonde { ''Well, boys, I reckon this is it,
nuclear combat toe to toe with the Roosskies'')"

Post by Bill Bonde { ''Well, boys, I reckon this is it, nuclear combat toe to toe with the Roosskies'')

Post by Veronique

Post by Jeannie
Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes doesn't
know either.  We'll have to wait a week to find out.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp

Hey, here's one that isn't even a rumor, about Sarah "Looney-Pants"
Palin. Talk about someone who's scary!

Amen to that, but I'd still take the SFGate article as rumor.  There
wasn't a link to the video, was there?  Have you seen it?  If it's so
"grainy" and she "kept her head bowed" I would assume it's a fake.
But yes, she's still scary. ;)
All of them scare me.  That's why I'm still planning to write in Ron
Paul.
Jeannie
still can't figure out why "speaking in tongues" isn't viewed as
"witchcraft"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia#New_Testament
#begin quote
There are five places in the New Testament where speaking in
tongues is referred to explicitly, and in the last three places the
subject is only mentioned in passing.
    * Acts 2, which describes what happened in Jerusalem at
Pentecost.
    * 1 Cor 12-14, where Paul discusses speaking in tongues as part
of his wider discussion of the gifts of the Spirit; his remarks
shed some light on his own speaking in tongues as well as how
tongues were spoken in the early church.
    * Acts 10:46, when the household of Cornelius in Caesarea spoke
in tongues.
    * Acts 19:6, when a group of approximately a dozen men spoke in
tongues in Ephesus.
    * Mark 16:17, which records the instructions of Christ to the
apostles, including his promise that ability will be given to speak
in new tongues.
At Pentecost there was a sound like a mighty rushing wind, "divided
tongues like fire" rested on the apostles, they were all filled
with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in languages previously
unknown to them, but recognizable to others present as their own
native language. Glossolalists and cessationists both recognise
this as xenoglossia, a miraculous ability that marked their baptism
in the Holy Spirit. Something similar took place on at least two
subsequent occasions, in Caesarea and Ephesus.
The Apostle Paul instructed the church in Corinth about speaking in
tongues in his discussion of the gifts of the Spirit in a letter to
them. His purpose was to encourage them to value the gift, but not
too highly; to practice it, but not abuse it. In the letter,
although Paul commands church brethren, "Do not forbid speaking in
"all spoke with tongues" (1 Cor 14:5) and claims himself to speak
with tongues more than all of the church at Corinth combined ("I
thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all" 1 Cor 14:18),
he discourages simultaneous speaking in tongues directed at people
rather than God, lest unbelievers think the assembled brethren
"mad" (1 Cor 14:23, 27). Tongues, says Paul, is speaking to God,
rather than men, mysteries in the spirit (1 Cor 14:2), edifies the
tongues-speaker (1 Cor 14:4), is the action of the praying of a
person's spirit (1 Cor 14:14), and serves to bless God and give
thanks (1 Cor 14:16-17).

Of course the description of what happened at the Pentecost is pretty
much the reverse of what modern Pentecostalists do. The original
version was the ability to be understood by everyone. Modern
Pentecostalists speaking in tongues can be understood by no one other
than an "interpreter".

Richard R. Hershberger

[Glenn Dowdy]

Post by Veronique

Post by Jeannie
Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes doesn't
know either. We'll have to wait a week to find out.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp

Hey, here's one that isn't even a rumor, about Sarah "Looney-Pants"
Palin. Talk about someone who's scary!

Amen to that, but I'd still take the SFGate article as rumor. There
wasn't a link to the video, was there? Have you seen it? If it's so
"grainy" and she "kept her head bowed" I would assume it's a fake.

*********************************************

[Jeannie]

Post by Veronique

Post by Jeannie
Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes doesn't
know either. We'll have to wait a week to find out.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp

Hey, here's one that isn't even a rumor, about Sarah "Looney-Pants"
Palin. Talk about someone who's scary!

Amen to that, but I'd still take the SFGate article as rumor.  There
wasn't a link to the video, was there?  Have you seen it?  If it's so
"grainy" and she "kept her head bowed" I would assume it's a fake.
*********************************************
http://youtu.be/k0utkTp7DTw

Thanks, Glenn. Do you think that's real?? It switches between two
voices several times and the lipreading doesn't match the video. But
it sure does look like Palin up there. I'm betting the video is real
but the soundtrack isn't.

Jeannie

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by Jeannie
All of them scare me. That's why I'm still planning to write in Ron
Paul.

Ron Paul will throw your children in a pit and make them fight for food.

[Pushmi-Pullyu]

Post by h***@gmail.com

All of them scare me.  That's why I'm still planning to write in Ron
Paul.

Ron Paul will throw your children in a pit and make them fight for food.
Huey

Wow, that sums it up nicely!

P

[Jeannie]

Post by h***@gmail.com

All of them scare me.  That's why I'm still planning to write in Ron
Paul.

Ron Paul will throw your children in a pit and make them fight for food.

Mine will win. She's a mosh graduate.

Jeannie
from generations of small-but-fierce

[Geoff Miller]

Jeannie <***@yahoo.com> writes:

[Palin]

Post by Jeannie
But yes, she's still scary. ;)

I think she's wonderful. I loved her speech at the convention.

(A Democrat friend of mine, who's drunk the Obamessiah Kool-Aid,
was in a snit about it for days. Heh...)

And if John Kennedy's Catholicism wasn't relevant to his candidacy,
why should Palin's membership in a fundamentalist church be relevant
to hers?

Post by Jeannie
All of them scare me. That's why I'm still planning to write
in Ron Paul.

Why throw your vote away? Not enough people ever end up voting
for fringe candidates to send the sort of message they think
they're sending.



Geoff

--
"You know how a pool dries and leaves puddles?
That's how culture works. Santa Cruz is the
sump of the sixties. -- Gadabout Ghandi

[Lars Eighner]

Post by Geoff Miller
And if John Kennedy's Catholicism wasn't relevant to his candidacy,
why should Palin's membership in a fundamentalist church be relevant
to hers?

Because she sought to use her offices to impose her religious conclusions on
others with the power of law. There was no evidence that Kennedy had ever
done that.

[Peter Lawrence]

Post by Lars Eighner

Post by Geoff Miller
And if John Kennedy's Catholicism wasn't relevant to his candidacy,
why should Palin's membership in a fundamentalist church be relevant
to hers?

Because she sought to use her offices to impose her religious conclusions on
others with the power of law. There was no evidence that Kennedy had ever
done that.

And there's no actual evidence that Palin ever did that too despite all
the fabricated stories about Palin that the left is spewing forth about her.

She's a hardcore conservative, but she's not evil.

Personally, I like what Penn Jillette (of Penn and Teller) who is, IIRC,
a Libertarian has to say about many Democrats and their hatred of all
things Republican.

- Peter

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Lars Eighner

Post by Geoff Miller
And if John Kennedy's Catholicism wasn't relevant to his candidacy,
why should Palin's membership in a fundamentalist church be
relevant to hers?

Because she sought to use her offices to impose her religious
conclusions on others with the power of law. There was no evidence
that Kennedy had ever done that.

And there's no actual evidence that Palin ever did that too despite
all the fabricated stories about Palin that the left is spewing forth
about her.
She's a hardcore conservative, but she's not evil.

She charged rape victims for their own rape evidence kits.

...dude, that's EVIL. It doesn't GET much more evil than that.

[Bob Ward]

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Lars Eighner

Post by Geoff Miller
And if John Kennedy's Catholicism wasn't relevant to his candidacy,
why should Palin's membership in a fundamentalist church be
relevant to hers?

Because she sought to use her offices to impose her religious
conclusions on others with the power of law. There was no evidence
that Kennedy had ever done that.

And there's no actual evidence that Palin ever did that too despite
all the fabricated stories about Palin that the left is spewing forth
about her.
She's a hardcore conservative, but she's not evil.

She charged rape victims for their own rape evidence kits.
...dude, that's EVIL. It doesn't GET much more evil than that.

Come on, guys - you can make up better shit than that...

[Tim]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:59:44 -0700, Bob Ward

Post by Bob Ward

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Lars Eighner

Post by Geoff Miller
And if John Kennedy's Catholicism wasn't relevant to his candidacy,
why should Palin's membership in a fundamentalist church be
relevant to hers?

Because she sought to use her offices to impose her religious
conclusions on others with the power of law. There was no evidence
that Kennedy had ever done that.

And there's no actual evidence that Palin ever did that too despite
all the fabricated stories about Palin that the left is spewing forth
about her.
She's a hardcore conservative, but she's not evil.

She charged rape victims for their own rape evidence kits.
...dude, that's EVIL. It doesn't GET much more evil than that.

Come on, guys - you can make up better shit than that...

What about the one about the African juju man and
witchcraft or the one about passing her daughter's
baby off as her own? That's not just inventive its
National Enquireresque (the old Natl. Enq.). I'm
waiting for the story about her being a space
alien or something involving bigfoots.

[Bob Ward]

Post by Tim
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:59:44 -0700, Bob Ward

Post by Bob Ward

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Peter Lawrence

Post by Lars Eighner

Post by Geoff Miller
And if John Kennedy's Catholicism wasn't relevant to his candidacy,
why should Palin's membership in a fundamentalist church be
relevant to hers?

Because she sought to use her offices to impose her religious
conclusions on others with the power of law. There was no evidence
that Kennedy had ever done that.

And there's no actual evidence that Palin ever did that too despite
all the fabricated stories about Palin that the left is spewing forth
about her.
She's a hardcore conservative, but she's not evil.

She charged rape victims for their own rape evidence kits.
...dude, that's EVIL. It doesn't GET much more evil than that.

Come on, guys - you can make up better shit than that...

What about the one about the African juju man and
witchcraft or the one about passing her daughter's
baby off as her own? That's not just inventive its
National Enquireresque (the old Natl. Enq.). I'm
waiting for the story about her being a space
alien or something involving bigfoots.

Palin worships crop circles?

[Geoff Miller]

Post by h***@gmail.com
She charged rape victims for their own rape evidence kits.

Do you have a cite for that? Either for her being responsible
for that policy, or for its ever being enforced?

I'm sorry, but it just doesn't pass the smell test.

Post by h***@gmail.com
...dude, that's EVIL. It doesn't GET much more evil than that.

Why? What's the big deal? Wouldn't a rape victim's insurance
company pick up the cost?

(What exactly is in a "rape kit," anway? Nobody ever elaborates
on that; it's the elephant in the living room. I visualize it
as a Ziploc baggie containing a Q-tip and one of those moist
towlettes in a foil packet, like the ones the airlines hand out
with meals. Maybe they even have the Alaska Airlines logo on
them. How costly could it possibly be?)



Geoff

--
"You know how a pool dries and leaves puddles?
That's how culture works. Santa Cruz is the
sump of the sixties. -- Gadabout Ghandi

[U***@gmail.com]

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by h***@gmail.com
She charged rape victims for their own rape evidence kits.

Do you have a cite for that? Either for her being responsible
for that policy, or for its ever being enforced?
I'm sorry, but it just doesn't pass the smell test.

Did'ja try doin' a Google, there, genius? Here:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-schmeltzer/palins-wasilla-to-rape-vi_b_125047.html

including cites back to Palin's hometown newspaper.

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by h***@gmail.com
...dude, that's EVIL. It doesn't GET much more evil than that.

Why? What's the big deal? Wouldn't a rape victim's insurance
company pick up the cost?

Yes, surely everyone has health insurance, right?

Post by Geoff Miller
(What exactly is in a "rape kit," anway? Nobody ever elaborates
on that; it's the elephant in the living room.

What the hell are you talking about?

Post by Geoff Miller
I visualize it
as a Ziploc baggie containing a Q-tip and one of those moist
towlettes in a foil packet, like the ones the airlines hand out
with meals. Maybe they even have the Alaska Airlines logo on
them. How costly could it possibly be?)

$300 to $1200, according to the article above. You're paying for
tests and processing, not q-tips.

--
Kevin

[Geoff Miller]

<***@gmail.com> writes:

: I'm sorry, but it just doesn't pass the smell test.

Post by U***@gmail.com
Did'ja try doin' a Google, there, genius?

No, I didn't. Why not? Because it was your assertion;
therefore it was your job, not mine, to back it up.

Why are you liberals always so goddamned snotty? No
bloody wonder so many of your betters would like to
send the lot of you up the ObChimneys.

Post by U***@gmail.com
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-schmeltzer/palins-wasilla-to-rape-vi_b_125047.html
including cites back to Palin's hometown newspaper.

There's a good boy. Now, wasn't that easy? There was no
reason in the world why you couldn't have included that
link in your previous post, was there? All that would've
been required was a teensy, tiny bit of thoughtfulness and
attention to detail (not to mention a common-sense desire
to cover your ass by backing up what you say). Maybe your
mind has been destroyed by the devil-weed marijuana.

Anyway...

The article reads in part:

"Oh wait, that's right he didn't do any of this, because
he made his decision after a short phone call. And now
he has, on his ticket, someone who didn't seem to think
that charging rape victims for forensics processing in
their rape cases was all that big of a problem. Or, at
least it wasn't a big enough problem to use her 'respon-
sibility' to change the policy."

This is an exellent example of what I call the Shithouse
Mouse Syndrome (see my post about that from last night).

Whatever you may think about the idea of charging rape
victims for their own rape kits, and of Sarah Palin's
alleged tacit approval of that, it has precisely zero
relevance as far as her fitness to be vice president or
even president is concerned. Like the awards or demerits
awarded to a military recruit in boot camp, it has no
bearing on life in the the real world. It's just random
dirt that was dug up by people who are grasping about
desperately to find something, anything, that they can
use to make Sarah Palin look bad because they're scared
absolutely to death of her. As well they should be.

Now then, back atcha:

http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/274003.php

Excerpt:

"Testifying in front of the same committee, Lauree Hugonin,
Director, Alaska Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual
Assault (ANDVSA) noted that 'billings have not come from
police agencies but have come from hospitals.' Trisha
Gentle, Executive Director, Council on Domestic Violence
& Sexual Assault noted that police departments were willing
to pay for the exams, but that it was an internal decision
on the part of the hospital as to who pays the hospital bill.

"Despite the spin recently being applied by astroturfing
Obama supporters, there was never any evidence that victims
were being charged by any police departments including
Wasilla's Police Department under Palin. Testimony instead
indicates it was callous hospitals that attempted to bill
victims on rare occasions of insensitivity.

[I've never seen "astroturf" used as a verb before. --GTM]

"It is also true that protective mechanisms were in place
in Alaska that would have picked up the cost of such kits,
even if State law had not changed in 2000.

[...]

"Despite claims to the contrary, there is no record that the
Wasilla Police Department ever charged rape victims under
Sarah Palin's leadership, nor were State law enforcement or
sexual assault victim's advocates aware of such attempts
anywhere in Alaska as the proposed bill was being discussed.
As committee minutes show, the offenders experts were worried
about were hospitals, not police, and not Sarah Palin."

But wait, there's more!

http://preview.tinyurl.com/3rdqvt

Excerpt:

"'In the past, we've charged the cost of exams to victim's
insurance companies when possible,' former chief Charlie
Fannon told the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman in 2000 as then-
Democratic Governor Tony Knowles was signing legislation to
make local police branches cover the costs of the kits.

"'I just don't want to see any more burden on the taxpayer,'
Fannon said at the time, which was reprinted in the USA Today.

"Fannon went on to say that he believed the criminal should be
held responsible for the costs, which run from $5,000-$14,000
per year for all assault cases. USA TODAY DID NOT REPRINT THOSE
QUOTES FROM THE INTERVIEW, THOUGH. [emphasis mine --GTM] 'The
forensic exam is just one part of the equation,. Fannon said at
the time 'I'd like to see the courts make these people pay
restitution for these things.'

"Liberal blogs like HuffingtonPost, DailyKos and Salon.com
are using this interview the Frontier conducted with Fannon
to accuse Palin, who was mayor of Wasilla from 1996-2002,
of supporting making rape victims pay for their rape kits--
a charge vehemently denied by her aides."

(You'll note that not only did I provide links; I even took
a few moments to quote relevant excerpts.)

Had you wanted to get both sides of the story, you could've
dug that stuff up as easily as I did. Your willingness to
believe uncritically something unflattering about a Repub-
lican politician that was published on a leftist Web site
only serves to underscore your bias and credulity.

Post by U***@gmail.com
Yes, surely everyone has health insurance, right?

The overwhelming majority do, and the rest should.
But not as an entitlement.

Those who don't have health insurance should work to
improve their circumstances so that they can get it, too.
If they make a living doing scut work for chump change at
a job with no benefits because they didn't stay in school
and apply themselves, whose fault is that, really? It
all comes down to two key Republican values: self-reliance
and personal responsibility. See .sig.

Ah, well: like the old rich guy in "Caddyshack" said, the
world needs ditch-diggers, too.


: (What exactly is in a "rape kit," anway? Nobody ever
: elaborates on that; it's the elephant in the living room.

Post by U***@gmail.com
What the hell are you talking about?

What the hell am I talking about? What the hell do you
*think* I'm talking about? My words are right there in
black and white. I know you can read, 'cause we've come
this far.

Post by U***@gmail.com
$300 to $1200, according to the article above. You're
paying for tests and processing, not q-tips.

Not that it matters, of course, since as we now know, no
one was ever charged for a rape kit.

As Jamie and Adam would say, we can now consider this myth
well and truly busted.



Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[M. Shirley Chong]

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by h***@gmail.com
She charged rape victims for their own rape evidence kits.

Do you have a cite for that? Either for her being responsible
for that policy, or for its ever being enforced?
I'm sorry, but it just doesn't pass the smell test.

How about _New York Times_?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/opinion/26fri4.html

or

http://tinyurl.com/4us5hl

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by h***@gmail.com
...dude, that's EVIL. It doesn't GET much more evil than that.

Why? What's the big deal? Wouldn't a rape victim's insurance
company pick up the cost?

What other crime investigation requires the victim or their
insurance to pick up the costs of the investigation? Burglary? Uh,
nope. Vandalism? No. Fender-bender? Shoplifting? Gunshot victim?
Nopenopenope. So why are rape victims being singled out to pay for
their own assault to be investigated?

Furthermore, many victims may not even want to tell their insurance
company that they had been raped. It's none of their business.

Post by Geoff Miller
(What exactly is in a "rape kit," anway? Nobody ever elaborates
on that; it's the elephant in the living room. I visualize it
as a Ziploc baggie containing a Q-tip and one of those moist
towlettes in a foil packet, like the ones the airlines hand out
with meals. Maybe they even have the Alaska Airlines logo on
them. How costly could it possibly be?)

Rape kits cost from $300-1200 apiece, depending on what is included.
A bare bones kit includes sterile swabs; sealable paper bags for
putting the victim's clothes into; dental floss; vials for blood and
urine samples; microscope slides; a tool for collecting possible
fingernail scrapings; a comb to find possible foreign pubic hairs;
sterile water; sterile saline solution; an appropriate receptacle
for each piece of evidence collected (sealable, properly labelled,
etc); forms for the evidence collected and detailed instructions for
the person collecting the evidence.

Better kits include things like a camera for documenting injuries;
clothing for the duration of the exam (once her clothes have been
taken for evidence, most rape victims are not going to be
comfortable sitting/lying around naked for the remainder of the
examination); clothing that the victim can wear home; an ultraviolet
lamp to aid in examining the victim's skin (all body fluids
fluoresce, as I understand it); speculums; special dyes; Post-it
notes for collecting trace evidence like fibres; etc.

M. Shirley Chong

[M C Hamster]

Post by M. Shirley Chong

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by h***@gmail.com
She charged rape victims for their own rape evidence kits.

Do you have a cite for that? Either for her being responsible
for that policy, or for its ever being enforced?
I'm sorry, but it just doesn't pass the smell test.

How about _New York Times_?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/opinion/26fri4.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/4us5hl

OK, Geoff, a simple apology now, and everything will be fine.

I like it that, since it didn't pass the smell test for you, that it's
a clear demonstration that it is a really repugnant thing for her to
have done... so bad that it couldn't possibly have been true, even
though it was.

Point to Huey.

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by M C Hamster

Post by M. Shirley Chong

Post by h***@gmail.com
She charged rape victims for their own rape evidence kits.

Do you have a cite for that? Either for her being responsible for
that policy, or for its ever being enforced?
I'm sorry, but it just doesn't pass the smell test.

How about _New York Times_?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/opinion/26fri4.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/4us5hl

OK, Geoff, a simple apology now, and everything will be fine.
I like it that, since it didn't pass the smell test for you, that it's
a clear demonstration that it is a really repugnant thing for her to
have done... so bad that it couldn't possibly have been true, even
though it was.
Point to Huey.

No, I'm willing to concede any and all arguments, present and future, to
Geoff, largely because after about three posts of his, I determined that
engaging in a discussion with him is unlikely to enhance my life any,
and so I awarded him the Shawn Wilson Memorial ^K. He can find someone
else's newsreader to say retarded shit in, but he's done in mine.

[Geoff Miller]

<***@gmail.com> writes:

[to M C Hamster]

Post by h***@gmail.com
No, I'm willing to concede any and all arguments, present
and future, to Geoff, largely because after about three
posts of his, I determined that engaging in a discussion
with him is unlikely to enhance my life any, and so I
awarded him the Shawn Wilson Memorial ^K.

In other words, you realized in short order that you were
out of your depth with me, but are too chickenshit to admit
defeat. Then again, from what I've seen of you, you'd be
out of your depth anyplace the goddam sidewalk was wet.

Fine. Let the record show that Huey Callison is unable to
defend his point of view, and that by abandoning any attempt
to try and do so, he forfeited this debate.

Killfiling someone because you lost an argument to him is
the mark of a loser, Huey. It demonstrates that your ego
is too fragile to handle being wrong, let alone to admit to
it. Quitters don't win, and winners don't quit.

Advantage: Miller

Post by h***@gmail.com
He can find someone else's newsreader to say retarded shit
in, but he's done in mine.

I've made the observation that whenever a conservative tries
to engage a liberal in debate on Usenet, the liberal will
almost always invoke some variant of "Yer stupid!" within
three exchanges. Often over his virtual shoulder, while
running for the nearest exit.

It's not difficult to understand why this is so. Liberals
fancy themselves as one with the truth and all but holding
the title deed to the moral high ground. And so not sur-
prisingly, the only conceivable explanation for anyone's
failing to see things their way is that the person is either
stupid or evil, maybe even both.

When that person offers intelligent, considered, and reasoned
arguments that the liberal is unable to refute, the liberal
experiences a cognitive CPU panic, sort of like trying to
divide by zero. Tossing out an insult on his way to the
nearest escape hatch is a last-ditch attempt to salvage what's
left of his dignity.

Poor little fellow...



Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[Glenn Dowdy]

Post by Geoff Miller
[to M C Hamster]

Post by h***@gmail.com
No, I'm willing to concede any and all arguments, present
and future, to Geoff, largely because after about three
posts of his, I determined that engaging in a discussion
with him is unlikely to enhance my life any, and so I
awarded him the Shawn Wilson Memorial ^K.

In other words, you realized in short order that you were
out of your depth with me, but are too chickenshit to admit
defeat. Then again, from what I've seen of you, you'd be
out of your depth anyplace the goddam sidewalk was wet.
Fine. Let the record show that Huey Callison is unable to
defend his point of view, and that by abandoning any attempt
to try and do so, he forfeited this debate.
Killfiling someone because you lost an argument to him is
the mark of a loser, Huey. It demonstrates that your ego
is too fragile to handle being wrong, let alone to admit to
it. Quitters don't win, and winners don't quit.
Advantage: Miller

Do you play bridge?

Glenn D.

[Geoff Miller]

Post by Glenn Dowdy
Do you play bridge?

No. I don't sleep under one, either.

Why do you ask? Are you looking for a partner?



Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[bill van]

Post by M C Hamster

Post by M. Shirley Chong

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by h***@gmail.com
She charged rape victims for their own rape evidence kits.

Do you have a cite for that? Either for her being responsible
for that policy, or for its ever being enforced?
I'm sorry, but it just doesn't pass the smell test.

How about _New York Times_?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/opinion/26fri4.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/4us5hl

OK, Geoff, a simple apology now, and everything will be fine.
I like it that, since it didn't pass the smell test for you, that it's
a clear demonstration that it is a really repugnant thing for her to
have done... so bad that it couldn't possibly have been true, even
though it was.
Point to Huey.

So, do you expect this guy to be less of an idiot than some of our
homegrown ignoramuses?

(Takes deep breath, doesn't hold it.)

[Geoff Miller]

Post by bill van
So, do you expect this guy to be less of an idiot than
some of our homegrown ignoramuses?
(Takes deep breath, doesn't hold it.)

Er, why do you say I'm an idiot? No one has let that other
shoe drop. I can only conclude that, as I said in my send-
off of Huey, the insult is just a smokescreen to hide your
own inadequacy. It can be liked to the cloud of ink left
by a fleeing, frightened cephalopod.



Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[Glenn Dowdy]

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by bill van
So, do you expect this guy to be less of an idiot than
some of our homegrown ignoramuses?
(Takes deep breath, doesn't hold it.)

Er, why do you say I'm an idiot? No one has let that other
shoe drop. I can only conclude that, as I said in my send-
off of Huey, the insult is just a smokescreen to hide your
own inadequacy. It can be liked to the cloud of ink left
by a fleeing, frightened cephalopod.

What would happen if you came here and didn't win any arguments?

Glenn D.

[Geoff Miller]

Post by Glenn Dowdy
What would happen if you came here and didn't win any arguments?

Is that one of those Zen cone things, like that one about the
sound of one hand clapping?



Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[Geoff Miller]

Post by M C Hamster
OK, Geoff, a simple apology now, and everything will be fine.
I like it that, since it didn't pass the smell test for you,
that it's a clear demonstration that it is a really repugnant
thing for her to have done... so bad that it couldn't possibly
have been true, even though it was.

What I meant by its not passing the smell test was that it
struck me as an extremely unlikely thing for any politician
to have done. One, it's patently unfair, and it's highly
improbable (to say the least) that anyone with such a dis-
torted sense of moral rectitude would manage to get them-
selves elected dog catcher, let alone mayor.

Two, politicians are known for, if nothing else, their sense
of political self-preservation. Supporting a policy of rape
victims being made to pay for their own rape kits would be
political suicide, seeing as how it would create outrage in
anybody who knew about it. And it would obviously just be
a matter of time before somebody did, and spread the word.

Hence my skepticism, which as we've now seen, turned out to
be fully justified.

Post by M C Hamster
Point to Huey.

You should've waited until you'd seen my response to Huey.
Go read it, if you haven't already done so by the time you
see this. Then you can get back to me and issue that apology
you mentioned at the beginning of your post.

I hope for the sake of your love life that you don't go off
this prematurely in the sack...


Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[Glenn Dowdy]

Post by Geoff Miller
I hope for the sake of your love life that you don't go off
this prematurely in the sack...

You're really trying to make a good impression here, aren't you.

Glenn D.

[Dana Carpender]

Post by Glenn Dowdy

Post by Geoff Miller
I hope for the sake of your love life that you don't go off
this prematurely in the sack...

You're really trying to make a good impression here, aren't you.

Yep. This guy's hit my killfile in the shortest time of anyone ever to
show up on AFCA. I mean, I read Wilson for *years* and I still haven't
KF'd Bonde. But this guy? Buh-bye.

Dana

[Geoff Miller]

Post by Dana Carpender
Yep. This guy's hit my killfile in the shortest time
of anyone ever to show up on AFCA.

Well, you know what they say: records are meant to be
broken. (My first one was an LP of the "Saturday Night
Fever" soundtrack when I was in high school. <snap!>
"Disco sucks!")

When it comes to killfiles, I'm a gold medalist, kinda
like Mark "Lick It 'till It" Spitz.

(Offended yet? No? Cool your jets; I'll get to you
in due course.)



Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[Geoff Miller]

Post by Glenn Dowdy
You're really trying to make a good impression here,
aren't you.

The people I've been arguing with obviously don't much
care what sort of impression they make on me, calling
me an idiot, saying that what I write is retarded, and
whatnot.

Given that, if you really believe I should still care
what they think of me, I'd be interested in seeing your
reasoning.

And I use the word "reasoning" advisedly.

Oops. I hate it when that happens.



Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[Glenn Dowdy]

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by Glenn Dowdy
You're really trying to make a good impression here,
aren't you.

The people I've been arguing with obviously don't much
care what sort of impression they make on me, calling
me an idiot, saying that what I write is retarded, and
whatnot.
Given that, if you really believe I should still care
what they think of me, I'd be interested in seeing your
reasoning.

You've certainly come a long way in your almost two years on Usenet. On
behalf of the rest of the afca newsgroup, I declare you All Time Winner. You
might have been in the running for Smartest Man On Usenet, but that position
is filled. Say hi to Shawn. He's sitting across from the bridge table from
you.

Glenn D.

[D.F. Manno]

Post by Peter Lawrence
She's a hardcore conservative, but she's not evil.

The last eight years have proven that "hardcore conservative" equals
"evil."

Post by Peter Lawrence
Personally, I like what Penn Jillette (of Penn and Teller) who is, IIRC,
a Libertarian has to say about many Democrats and their hatred of all
things Republican.

Yeah, like I care what one-half of a vaudeville act has to say about
politics.

[Geoff Miller]

Post by D.F. Manno
The last eight years have proven that "hardcore conservative"
equals "evil."

(Heh...just as I said in my send-off of Huey. Did I call
it, or what? You people are nothing if not predictable.)

Horse genitals. At most, what it proves is that the Bush
administration is incompetent. If you're even inclined
to that much, of course.

Klew Fer Yew: The Bush administration is but a subset of
the class "hardcore conservatives." You'd know that if
you read more. Pat Buchanan, for example, is as hardcore
a conservative as they come. But he's long been highly
critical of the Bush administration.

Post by D.F. Manno
Yeah, like I care what one-half of a vaudeville act has to say
about politics.

That's an ad hominem argument. (You *do* know what that means,
don't you?) Got anything of actual substance?

No? Perhaps your local community college offers night classes
in critical reasoning. You might look into that. Then, like
the 90-pound weakling in those ads in the backs of the old
comic books who was always getting sand kicked in his face,
you can come back and do the Usenet equivalent of getting
the girl.

Good luck. Next!



Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[Paul Ciszek]

Post by Geoff Miller
[Palin]
And if John Kennedy's Catholicism wasn't relevant to his candidacy,
why should Palin's membership in a fundamentalist church be relevant
to hers?

JFK swore publically that he would not let his relgion affect how
he governed. I'd love to see a politician do that today.

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by Jeannie
All of them scare me. That's why I'm still planning to write
in Ron Paul.

Why throw your vote away? Not enough people ever end up voting
for fringe candidates to send the sort of message they think
they're sending.

Nonsense. I heartily encourage 50% of all Republicans to vote for
Ron Paul.

[Jeannie]

Post by Geoff Miller
[Palin]

Post by Jeannie
But yes, she's still scary. ;)

I think she's wonderful.  I loved her speech at the convention.

I did too. As possible future Prez if something happens to McCain,
though, she still scares me.

Post by Geoff Miller
And if John Kennedy's Catholicism wasn't relevant to his candidacy,
why should Palin's membership in a fundamentalist church be relevant
to hers?

It's not her religion thing that scares me...she seems to have backed
off on it in recent years. It's the other stuff...the power hunger,
the damn-the-torpedoes outlook, etc. I know that's "refreshing" but I
don't think it would really work in todays' world.

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by Jeannie
All of them scare me.  That's why I'm still planning to write
in Ron Paul.

Why throw your vote away?  Not enough people ever end up voting
for fringe candidates to send the sort of message they think
they're sending.

Then all we can do is keep trying. Would you say the two-party system
is working well?

Jeannie

[D.F. Manno]

Post by Geoff Miller
[Palin]

Post by Jeannie
But yes, she's still scary. ;)

I think she's wonderful. I loved her speech at the convention.

"Her" speech was written before she was even chosen as running mate.
McCain staffers were quoted as saying they had to rewrite it to make it
less masculine.

[Geoff Miller]

D.F. Manno <***@mail.com> writes:

[Palin]

Post by D.F. Manno
"Her" speech was written before she was even chosen as
running mate. McCain staffers were quoted as saying they
had to rewrite it to make it less masculine.

She delivered it with poise and conviction. That's good
enough for me.

Post by D.F. Manno
Sent via BlackBerry, the miracle device invented by John McCain.

Follow-up posted to the Internet, that miracle network conceived
by Al Gore.



Geoff

--
"You know how a pool dries and leaves puddles?
That's how culture works. Santa Cruz is the
sump of the sixties. -- Gadabout Ghandi

[CJ]

Post by Geoff Miller
[Palin]

Post by D.F. Manno
"Her" speech was written before she was even chosen as
running mate. McCain staffers were quoted as saying they
had to rewrite it to make it less masculine.

She delivered it with poise and conviction. That's good
enough for me.

Interesting... If Nancy Pelosi had somehow gotten ahold of that speech
and "delivered it with poise and conviction", would that also be good
enough for you?

Just curious.

[D.F. Manno]

Post by CJ

Post by Geoff Miller
[Palin]

Post by D.F. Manno
"Her" speech was written before she was even chosen as
running mate. McCain staffers were quoted as saying they
had to rewrite it to make it less masculine.

She delivered it with poise and conviction. That's good
enough for me.

Interesting... If Nancy Pelosi had somehow gotten ahold of that speech
and "delivered it with poise and conviction", would that also be good
enough for you?
Just curious.

If Nancy Pelosi were to deliver that speech, I wouldn't give a damn, as
she doesn't represent me nor is she running in any election I would be
voting in.

[Glenn Dowdy]

Post by D.F. Manno

Post by CJ

Post by Geoff Miller
[Palin]

Post by D.F. Manno
"Her" speech was written before she was even chosen as
running mate. McCain staffers were quoted as saying they
had to rewrite it to make it less masculine.

She delivered it with poise and conviction. That's good
enough for me.

Interesting... If Nancy Pelosi had somehow gotten ahold of that speech
and "delivered it with poise and conviction", would that also be good
enough for you?
Just curious.

If Nancy Pelosi were to deliver that speech, I wouldn't give a damn, as
she doesn't represent me nor is she running in any election I would be
voting in.

If Nancy Pelosi were to deliver that speech, I'd consider her a bigger
sell-out than Lieberman.

Glenn D.

[Geoff Miller]

Post by CJ
Interesting... If Nancy Pelosi had somehow gotten
ahold of that speech and "delivered it with poise
and conviction", would that also be good enough
for you?

Only in the sense that skilled oratory is something I
admire. (And before you ask, yes, I have a lot of
respect for Barack Obama in that regard.)

But since the ideas and sentiments put forth in that
speech run counter to most everything Nancy Pelosi
stands for, that scenario is patently nonsensical.
The contents of the speech would we the same, but
it would be delivered without conviction. You might
as well as me if I'd have liked In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida
if it had been played by Guy Lombardo And His Royal
Canadians.

There's a colorful American figure of speech, "crazier
than a shithouse mouse." The image it brings to mind
is that of a terrified mouse running randomly about
the confined space inside a privy when the door is
suddenly opened, its only avenue of escape cut off by
the hulking creature standing in the doorway. Hold
that thought for a moment.

I noticed that during the early months of the Iraq war,
liberal opponents of the war were flailing about wildly
in their determination to opportunistically seize on any
little thing, no matter how trivial or irrelevant to the
prosecution of the mission, that they thought would place
George W. Bush and his decision to invade in a negative
light. The looting of the Iraqi national museum is one
good example of that. The contrived scandal about un-
armored Humvees is another. These people were crazier
than shithouse mice, doing the emotional equivalent of
ricocheting around like Superballs inside a phone booth.

I've been observing the same thing from the same crowd
ever since Sarah Palin gave that speech at the Republican
convention and they realized with a dawning sense of fore-
boding just how well-received she was. It seems to be
characteristic of the Left.

The nutroots instantly went on the attack. The bastards
are *spooked,* and with reason. Perfectly innocuous
things about Palin, and even about her family, are being
seized on and made to sound like the most hideous crimes
ever committed.

She -- ghasp! -- fired state employees and replaced them
with her supporters! (Gee, no one had *ever* done that
before. Ever heard of the "spoils system," as in, "To
the victor go the spoils?" I learned about that in 8th
grade, long before I ever took high school civics.)

She -- eek! -- belongs to an evangelical church! (Yes,
just like millions of other regular Americans -- the
sort of people down there in Red State "flyover country"
whom liberal elites have no contact with -- do..)

She didn't abort her baby, even though she knew it would
be born with Down's Syndrome! (Suddenly liberals want to
control a woman's body? Oh, the sweet irony!)

Her teenage daughter is so out of control that she got
pregnant! Can you imagine? (So I take it that now
liberals are in favor of parental-notification laws?)

She didn't write that speech herself? So frigging what?
How many politicians *do* write their own speeches nowadays?
Even Ronald Reagan, the Great Communicator, had speechwriters,
for crissake. Get a grip, already. Take a flippin' Midol.



Geoff

--
"You know how a pool dries and leaves puddles?
That's how culture works. Santa Cruz is the
sump of the sixties. -- Gadabout Ghandi

[Veronique]

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by CJ
Interesting... If Nancy Pelosi had somehow gotten
ahold of that speech and "delivered it with poise
and conviction", would that also be good enough
for you?

Only in the sense that skilled oratory is something I
admire. (And before you ask, yes, I have a lot of
respect for Barack Obama in that regard.)
But since the ideas and sentiments put forth in that
speech run counter to most everything Nancy Pelosi
stands for, that scenario is patently nonsensical.
The contents of the speech would we the same, but
it would be delivered without conviction.

What if she put a big "NOT!" at the end?


V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep

[Geoff Miller]

Post by Veronique
What if she put a big "NOT!" at the end?

I'd laugh my ass off.



Geoff

--
"You know how a pool dries and leaves puddles?
That's how culture works. Santa Cruz is the
sump of the sixties. -- Gadabout Ghandi

[Jeannie]

The nutroots instantly went on the attack.  The bastards
are *spooked,* and with reason.  Perfectly innocuous
things about Palin, and even about her family, are being
seized on and made to sound like the most hideous crimes
ever committed.  
She -- ghasp! -- fired state employees and replaced them
with her supporters!  (Gee, no one had *ever* done that
before.  Ever heard of the "spoils system," as in, "To
the victor go the spoils?"  I learned about that in 8th
grade, long before I ever took high school civics.)
She -- eek! -- belongs to an evangelical church!  (Yes,
just like millions of other regular Americans -- the
sort of people down there in Red State "flyover country"
whom liberal elites have no contact with -- do..)
She didn't abort her baby, even though she knew it would
be born with Down's Syndrome!  (Suddenly liberals want to
control a woman's body?  Oh, the sweet irony!)
Her teenage daughter is so out of control that she got
pregnant!  Can you imagine?  (So I take it that now
liberals are in favor of parental-notification laws?)

Nutroot??

Also, you forgot "she has five kids and works outside the home...she
must be a either a bad mother or a substandard worker!" More sweet
irony....

Jeannie

[Geoff Miller]

Post by Jeannie
Nutroot??

The moonbat readers and bloggers of the Daily Kos, a far-left
blog, are known to themselves as "netroots," a play on the word
"grassroots." The term has expanded to cover leftist bloggers
generally.

Post by Jeannie
Also, you forgot "she has five kids and works outside the home
...she must be a either a bad mother or a substandard worker!"
More sweet irony....

Right! You'd think that they'd jump for joy atthe idea of a
strong woman who managed to live life on her terms, balancing
motherhood and a demanding career and thereby shattering the
"glass ceiling." But as in the case of Condi Rice, the silence
is deafening.



Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[Glenn Dowdy]

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by Jeannie
Also, you forgot "she has five kids and works outside the home
...she must be a either a bad mother or a substandard worker!"
More sweet irony....

Right! You'd think that they'd jump for joy atthe idea of a
strong woman who managed to live life on her terms, balancing
motherhood and a demanding career and thereby shattering the
"glass ceiling." But as in the case of Condi Rice, the silence
is deafening.

Maybe she's being judged on the basis of her values and actions, not her
sex. To be proud of Condi or Palin for all they've accomplished as a woman
seems rather sexist.

Glenn D.

[Mark Steese]

***@lava.net (Geoff Miller) wrote in news:***@posted.lavanet:

[snip]

Post by Geoff Miller
There's a colorful American figure of speech, "crazier
than a shithouse mouse."

Huh. The version I've heard is "crazier than a shithouse rat." Google
returns 16,200 hits for the phrase "shithouse rat" and 829 for
"shithouse mouse," suggesting that the latter is a more recent coinage.

Searching through Google Books, I get 288 hits for "shithouse rat" and
75 for "shithouse mouse," though the former number is admittedly skewed
by multiple references to the same passage (see below). The shithouse
rat is found in Australia and in great modernist literature: Graham
Seal's book *The Lingo: Listening to Australian English* (Univ. of New
South Wales Press, 1998) cites the phrase "uglier than a shithouse rat"
(78), while James Joyce uses the phrase "Cute as a shithouse rat" in
*Ulysses*. (The latter phrase is the one that skews the total -- writing
about Joyce is quite the cottage industry.)

Another fact revealed by the Google Books search is that Stephen King
uses both "shithouse rat" and "shithouse mouse."

Post by Geoff Miller
The image it brings to mind is that of a terrified mouse running
randomly about the confined space inside a privy when the door is
suddenly opened, its only avenue of escape cut off by the hulking
creature standing in the doorway.

"Its only avenue of escape"? It doesn't seem very likely that the mouse
went in through the doorway, so I don't see why their first impulse
would be to leave that way. I can think of at least one other avenue of
escape that a mouse could easily locate in a shithouse.

Post by Geoff Miller
Hold that thought for a moment.

Is it okay if I hold this one instead? I always thought that the rat was
assumed to be crazy because it lived in a shithouse. IMO, the expression
doesn't work for a mouse; rats are typically associated with sewers and
toilets (Cecil Adams has noted the affinity rats have for toilet bowls:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/29/can-rats-swim-up-through-the-urk-toilet).
Mice? Not so much. So it's easy to see why there'd be a rat in the
shithouse, but why would there be a mouse in one?

[Veronique]

Post by Mark Steese
[snip]

Post by Geoff Miller
There's a colorful American figure of speech, "crazier
than a shithouse mouse."

Huh. The version I've heard is "crazier than a shithouse rat." Google
returns 16,200 hits for the phrase "shithouse rat" and 829 for
"shithouse mouse," suggesting that the latter is a more recent coinage.

Post by Geoff Miller
Hold that thought for a moment.

Is it okay if I hold this one instead? I always thought that the rat was
assumed to be crazy because it lived in a shithouse. IMO, the expression
doesn't work for a mouse; rats are typically associated with sewers and
toilets (Cecil Adams has noted the affinity rats have for toilet bowls:http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/29/can-rats-swim-up-through-...).
Mice? Not so much. So it's easy to see why there'd be a rat in the
shithouse, but why would there be a mouse in one?

Corncobs?


V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep

[CJ]

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by CJ
Interesting... If Nancy Pelosi had somehow gotten
ahold of that speech and "delivered it with poise
and conviction", would that also be good enough
for you?

Only in the sense that skilled oratory is something I
admire. (And before you ask, yes, I have a lot of
respect for Barack Obama in that regard.)
But since the ideas and sentiments put forth in that
speech run counter to most everything Nancy Pelosi
stands for, that scenario is patently nonsensical.

As usual, you don't answer a question directly. A simple yes or no
would have been sufficient.

I deleted the other 10 1/2 paragraphs of conservative vent against
liberals.

Paul had the right idea when he would keep score of your lengthy
responses to his one liners. where the hell is he when we need him.

[Geoff Miller]

CJ <***@hotmail.com> writes:

: But since the ideas and sentiments put forth in that
: speech run counter to most everything Nancy Pelosi
: stands for, that scenario is patently nonsensical.

Post by CJ
As usual, you don't answer a question directly.

Maybe I ought to be a politician. Naah; Google Groups
rules that out, straightaway. That's okay. I'd rather
post to Usenet than serve in any elected office. At
least I get to say what I really think in here.

I don't recall that you have any history of asking me
questions, so I'm not sure what the basis for your "as
usual" comment is.

What difference does it make how I answer a question, if
the question doesn't make sense? You're trying to construct
an intellectual edifice on a foundation that's decidedly
flawed.

"And the third one burned down, fell over, *then* sank
into the swamp!"

Post by CJ
A simple yes or no would have been sufficient.

I gave you an answer of "yes," albeit conditional.

Post by CJ
I deleted the other 10 1/2 paragraphs of conservative
vent against liberals.

Unable to refute it, you got rid of it. Your intel-
lectual intrepeditudeness is an inspiration to us all.

If a conservative did that to you, you'd probably be
screeching about "censorship" and "fascism" in a metric
heartbeat.

Post by CJ
Paul had the right idea when he would keep score of your
lengthy responses to his one liners. where the hell is he
when we need him.

Childish things like that are what a person does when he's
ill-equipped to respond in kind to reasoned discourse.



Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[Dana Carpender]

Post by Jeannie

Post by Veronique

Post by Jeannie
Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes doesn't
know either. We'll have to wait a week to find out.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp

Hey, here's one that isn't even a rumor, about Sarah "Looney-Pants"
Palin. Talk about someone who's scary!

Amen to that, but I'd still take the SFGate article as rumor. There
wasn't a link to the video, was there? Have you seen it?

Yes, on television last night.

Dana

[Millenium Hand&Fish]

Post by Veronique
Hey, here's one that isn't even a rumor, about Sarah "Looney-Pants"
Palin. Talk about someone who's scary!
V.
http://tinyurl.com/3gtu5m
A grainy YouTube video surfaced Wednesday showing Sarah Palin being
blessed in her hometown church three years ago by a Kenyan pastor who
prayed for protection from "witchcraft" as she prepared to seek higher
office.
The video shows Palin standing before Bishop Thomas Muthee in the
pulpit of the Wasilla Assembly of God church, holding her hands open
as he asked Jesus Christ to keep her safe from "every form of
witchcraft."

I have to respectfully disagree with your conclusion.

It seems to be agreed that a candidate for public office is not
personally responsible for everything their pastor says, and there is
no evidence that Palin knew in advance how the blessing would be
worded.

In any case, witchcraft is taken seriously in eastern Africa, and it's
not far from the fringe in all branches of Christianity (exorcism,
anyone?). There seems to me nothing unusual in this blessing,
especially seeing the source.

Lastly and to the side, I am amused to see the place this ex-British
colony is taking in American politics.

MH&F.

[D.F. Manno]

In article

Post by Millenium Hand&Fish

Post by Veronique
Hey, here's one that isn't even a rumor, about Sarah "Looney-Pants"
Palin. Talk about someone who's scary!
V.
http://tinyurl.com/3gtu5m
A grainy YouTube video surfaced Wednesday showing Sarah Palin being
blessed in her hometown church three years ago by a Kenyan pastor who
prayed for protection from "witchcraft" as she prepared to seek higher
office.
The video shows Palin standing before Bishop Thomas Muthee in the
pulpit of the Wasilla Assembly of God church, holding her hands open
as he asked Jesus Christ to keep her safe from "every form of
witchcraft."

I have to respectfully disagree with your conclusion.
It seems to be agreed that a candidate for public office is not
personally responsible for everything their pastor says

Unless the candidate's name is Barack Obama and the pastor's name is
Jeremiah Wright, you mean.

[Geoff Miller]

Post by D.F. Manno

Post by Millenium Hand&Fish
It seems to be agreed that a candidate for public office
is not personally responsible for everything their pastor
says

Unless the candidate's name is Barack Obama and the pastor's
name is Jeremiah Wright, you mean.

Wrong.

The issue in Obama's case wasn't that Obama was somehow
responsible for what his pastor said. It was that he
continued to attend that pastor's church, and even denied
ever having heard any of the more controversial things
that Wright said, despite having been a member of Wright's
church for twenty-odd years.

There was also the idea that by continuing to attend that
church, Obama gave his tacit endorsement to Wright's
hatemongering.

In the case of Palin (assuming for the sake of discussion
that this video is real and unedited), it would appear that
she had no way of knowing in advance what this African
medicine man was going to say. And even if she did, so
what? He was a guest speaker; his message wasn't the
message of her own church. She was just being polite,
like when she wore that Buchanan button.

I really don't see that these differences should be all
that difficult to understand.



Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[Bill Bonde { ''Well, boys, I reckon this is it, nuclear combat toe to toe with the Roosskies'')]

Post by Jeannie
Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes doesn't
know either. We'll have to wait a week to find out.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both died in
office, who would become president?

Mickey Mouse. No worries, I hear he'll be safe under DMCA copyright
until the year three thousand and fourty five.

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by Jeannie
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both died in
office, who would become president?
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi. Great reason
to vote for McCain!

Bees are in the what now? The only thing I can find even remotely close
to this was a bill she co-sponsored (with JOHN MCCAIN) for comprehensive
immigration reform, that included, along with penalties for breaking the
law, a status that could eventually lead to citizenship. And that seems
sensible given that it's going to be impossible to find and deport ten
million people, even if it were possible for america to learn to go
without fresh produce and a ready supply of cheap unskilled labor.

And it ain't, by the way. That's why immigration reform that would
satisfy those who fear the scary brown people is destined to fail.
That, and it's un-Christian and anti-American. The Statue of Liberty
does not say "Bring me your tired, your poor- ...except the scary brown
people".

Post by Jeannie
*According to a 1997 General Accounting Office report, households
headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC
benefits and $430 million in food stamps during 1995. How much is it
today, one wonders?

Given the pace of recent enforcement activities and heightened scrutiny,
I bet it's less. There's whole neighborhoods in Manassas Virginia that
have turned into ghost towns, and entire strip-malls where you can no
longer buy a fuckin' sandwich, because the city council got all
xenophobic and decided to destroy the local economy while driving out
all of the scary brown people.

Post by Jeannie
And how obvious is it where their allegiance would lie politically?
Doubtless with the hand that hands out....

That reminds me, I only have a little more than a month to organize a
whole pickup-truck-load of mexicans to show up at Lou Dobbs's house for
trick-or-treating on Halloween.

[Curse Of Millhaven]

Post by h***@gmail.com

I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket.  People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms.  If they both died in
office, who would become president?
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi.  Great reason
to vote for McCain!

Bees are in the what now? The only thing I can find even remotely close
to this was a bill she co-sponsored (with JOHN MCCAIN) for comprehensive
immigration reform, that included, along with penalties for breaking the
law, a status that could eventually lead to citizenship. And that seems
sensible given that it's going to be impossible to find and deport ten
million people, even if it were possible for america to learn to go
without fresh produce and a ready supply of cheap unskilled labor.
And it ain't, by the way. That's why immigration reform that would
satisfy those who fear the scary brown people is destined to fail.
That, and it's un-Christian and anti-American. The Statue of Liberty
does not say "Bring me your tired, your poor- ...except the scary brown
people".

*According to a 1997 General Accounting Office report, households
headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC
benefits and $430 million in food stamps during 1995.  How much is it
today, one wonders?

Given the pace of recent enforcement activities and heightened scrutiny,
I bet it's less. There's whole neighborhoods in Manassas Virginia that
have turned into ghost towns, and entire strip-malls where you can no
longer buy a fuckin' sandwich, because the city council got all
xenophobic and decided to destroy the local economy while driving out
all of the scary brown people.

How has that affected the crime rate?

[Geoff Miller]

<***@gmail.com> writes:

[a path to citizenship]

And that seems sensible given that it's going to be
impossible to find and deport ten million people,

Well then, we'd best get started, hadn't we? Like the
Texan told his son, "Boy, that grass ain't gettin'
nothin' but taller, and I ain't gettin' nothin' but
madder!"

We wouldn't have to get every last one. It would be an
ongoing thing, just like apprehending any other class of
lawbreaker. And that's exactly what those people are.

A lot of it could be done in passing, such as when
anyone of obvious Hispanic ancestry who speaks heavily-
accented English (if he speaks it at all) is arrested,
or even stopped for a traffic violation. Ol' Pedro
would find himself in the pipeline in a trice.

And before anyone objects to "ethnic profiling," I
submit that at some point something ceases to be a
mere "profile" and becomes "a description of the
suspects." To deny this is to be willfully blind
to reality.

Also, wholesale arrests could be made at meat packing
plants and in other industries that commonly employ
lots of illegals, as is being done more and more often
already. Hefty penalties could be put in place for
anyone who employs illegals.

even if it were possible for america to learn to go
without fresh produce and a ready supply of cheap
unskilled labor.

It's commonplace to say that illegal aliens do the sorts
of jobs that Americans won't do. Well, that would no
longer be a problem if those jobs paid better, would it?
That's Economics 101.

Yes, that would mean higher prices for produce. Then
again, maybe we've been getting a pass in that regard
for far too long, thanks to the presence of workers
who shouldn't have been picking the crops to begin
with because they shouldn't have *been here* to begin
with, and it's time we started paying what the stuff
should actually cost. We could look at the bright side,
and be pleased that we got away with discounts on our
food for so long.

How much more expensive would produce really get, anyway?
Not any more than most people would be willing to pay,
since the same law of supply and demand that governs any
other form of retail commerce would be in effect. And
whatever consumer resistance there were -- there would
certainly be some -- would be an incentive for growers
and processors to develop new, as-yet undreamed of ef-
ficiences in their operations. These things tend to
seek their own level. It's Adam Smith's invisible hand
at work.

And it ain't, by the way. That's why immigration reform
that would satisfy those who fear the scary brown people
is destined to fail. That, and it's un-Christian and
anti-American. The Statue of Liberty does not say "Bring
me your tired, your poor- ...except the scary brown people".

Oh, please. It's disingenuous to try and frame this as a
matter of bigotry. You know, and I know, that the color
of these people's skin isn't the problem; the fact that
they're *not supposed to friggin' be here* is the problem.
As the Valley girls say, "Hel-LOOO?"

These people's very first act, upon entering this country,
was to show contempt for and violate our laws. Then there's
the way they essentially cut in line ahead of thousands of
people who wait years to come here because they play by the
rules.

A friend of mine is an immigrant from the Philippines.
After applying for legal resident-alien status, he and
his family had to wait ten years for approval to come
here. Ten years! That's outrageous in itself, but it's
more outrageous still that these wetbacks muscle in front
of such decent, law-abiding people.

There's whole neighborhoods in Manassas Virginia that
have turned into ghost towns, and entire strip-malls
where you can no longer buy a fuckin' sandwich, because
the city council got all xenophobic and decided to
destroy the local economy while driving out all of the
scary brown people.

It wasn't so long ago that such jobs were filled, and
filled eagerly, by American teenagers. Many people's
first jobs were at fast food places, car washes and the
like. There's no reason that couldn't be the case again.

If it means paying higher wages, then pay 'em. Where's
it written that the American public is entitled to getting
a Big Mac for X amount of money? We eat too much of that
crap, anyway.

A Greyhound bus holds what, fifty people? I figure the
government could charter a bunch of buses, to be filled
through the ramped-up efforts of the Border Patrol and
local police forces. They could be driven to the border
where there'd be a series of 50-seat, southward-facing
catapults or trebuchets emplaced at convenient intervals,
all the way from Brownsville to Chula Vista.

Out of the buses, into the catapults, and <TWANG!> Right
back over the fence or the Rio Grande, as the case may be.



Geoff

--
"You know how a pool dries and leaves puddles?
That's how culture works. Santa Cruz is the
sump of the sixties. -- Gadabout Ghandi

[Millenium Hand&Fish]

Post by Geoff Miller
[a path to citizenship]

And that seems sensible given that it's going to be
impossible to find and deport ten million people,

Well then, we'd best get started, hadn't we?

I agree.

Post by Geoff Miller
...
A Greyhound bus holds what, fifty people?  I figure the
government could charter a bunch of buses, to be filled
through the ramped-up efforts of the Border Patrol and
local police forces.  They could be driven to the border
where there'd be a series of 50-seat, southward-facing
catapults or trebuchets emplaced at convenient intervals,
all the way from Brownsville to Chula Vista.

A bit extreme. No need to be impolite, just inexorable and
unavoidable.

MH&F.

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by Millenium Hand&Fish

Post by Geoff Miller
[a path to citizenship]

And that seems sensible given that it's going to be
impossible to find and deport ten million people,

Well then, we'd best get started, hadn't we?

I agree.

It's going to be impossible, so we should get started?

Fans of George W. Bush, are you?

[Geoff Miller]

Post by h***@gmail.com
It's going to be impossible, so we should get started?

Er, the idea was that it'll be a very big job, but not
literally impossible. I took the "impossible" part as
hyperbole.

Post by h***@gmail.com
Fans of George W. Bush, are you?

I voted for him twice, but I'm not sure how exactly that
enters into this.



Geoff

--
"You know how a pool dries and leaves puddles?
That's how culture works. Santa Cruz is the
sump of the sixties. -- Gadabout Ghandi

[Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)]

Post by Geoff Miller
Also, wholesale arrests could be made at meat packing
plants and in other industries that commonly employ
lots of illegals, as is being done more and more often
already. Hefty penalties could be put in place for
anyone who employs illegals.

We already have those laws and penalties in place. It's just that no
one enforces them. Since the Executive Branch, which includes La
Migra, reports to the President, it's George W. Bush who is ignoring
those laws, to the benefit of businesses.

Mary "Demand drives supply"

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)

Also, wholesale arrests could be made at meat packing plants and in
other industries that commonly employ lots of illegals, as is being
done more and more often already. Hefty penalties could be put in
place for anyone who employs illegals.

We already have those laws and penalties in place. It's just that no
one enforces them. Since the Executive Branch, which includes La
Migra, reports to the President, it's George W. Bush who is ignoring
those laws, to the benefit of businesses.

Not only that, but if you shut down all the meat-packing plants, you'd
better learn to start liking Tofu Burgers.

[Veronique]

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Reunite Gondwanaland (Mary Shafer)

Also, wholesale arrests could be made at meat packing plants and in
other industries that commonly employ lots of illegals, as is being
done more and more often already. Hefty penalties could be put in
place for anyone who employs illegals.

We already have those laws and penalties in place. It's just that no
one enforces them. Since the Executive Branch, which includes La
Migra, reports to the President, it's George W. Bush who is ignoring
those laws, to the benefit of businesses.

Not only that, but if you shut down all the meat-packing plants, you'd
better learn to start liking Tofu Burgers.

Mmmm, Tofu Burgers.


V. "had one tonight, with pickles!"
--
Veronique Chez Sheep

[Geoff Miller]

Post by h***@gmail.com
Not only that, but if you shut down all the meat-packing
plants, you'd better learn to start liking Tofu Burgers.

Certain Obama constituencies would no doubt enjoy seeing
precisely that come to pass.

The meat packing plants weren't *always* staffed by illegal
aliens. That would seem to indicate that they don't have
to be staffed by illegal aliens now -- just as it's theor-
etically possible for a convenience store to be operated
by someone who isn't necessarily of Indian ancestry.

See my earlier post about how, if "there are jobs Americans
won't do," the obvious solution is to increase the wages
for those jobs until Americans *will* do them. You're not
against raising wages, are you?



Geoff

--
"You know how a pool dries and leaves puddles?
That's how culture works. Santa Cruz is the
sump of the sixties. -- Gadabout Ghandi

[Dana Carpender]

Post by Geoff Miller

Post by h***@gmail.com
Not only that, but if you shut down all the meat-packing
plants, you'd better learn to start liking Tofu Burgers.

Certain Obama constituencies would no doubt enjoy seeing
precisely that come to pass.

And some of us have eaten a low-carb diet for over a decade, and make
meat a mainstay of our diet. Your point?

Dana

[Geoff Miller]

Post by Dana Carpender

Post by h***@gmail.com
Not only that, but if you shut down all the meat-packing
plants, you'd better learn to start liking Tofu Burgers.

: Certain Obama constituencies would no doubt enjoy seeing
: precisely that come to pass.

Post by Dana Carpender
And some of us have eaten a low-carb diet for over a decade,
and make meat a mainstay of our diet. Your point?

I should ask you the same question. I don't see how your
statement relates to what I said.



Geoff

--
"The idea that you earn things - that you earn respect, that you
earn income, responsibility, the vote, punishment...these ideas
are anathema to the liberal mind." -- Dennis Prager

[Lesmond]

Post by Jeannie
Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes doesn't
know either. We'll have to wait a week to find out.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both died in
office, who would become president?
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi. Great reason
to vote for McCain!

Have another drink.

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by Lesmond

Post by Jeannie
Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes doesn't
know either. We'll have to wait a week to find out.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents
died early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both
died in office, who would become president?
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi. Great
reason to vote for McCain!

Have another drink.

And, we should probably specify: liquor, not paint this time.

[D.F. Manno]

In article

Post by Jeannie
*According to a 1997 General Accounting Office report, households
headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC
benefits and $430 million in food stamps during 1995. How much is it
today, one wonders?

A lot less, I would presume, since Clinton's welfare reform went into
effect.

[D.F. Manno]

In article

Post by Jeannie
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi.

Cite?

[Magnus, Robot Fighter]

Post by Jeannie
Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes doesn't
know either.  We'll have to wait a week to find out.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket.  People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms.  If they both died in
office, who would become president?
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi.  Great reason
to vote for McCain!

Doesn't seem very likely Obama is going to drop dead from smoking and
Biden is going to die before he can appoint a VP.

[darkon]

Post by Magnus, Robot Fighter

Post by Jeannie
Not saying it's true, and not saying it ain't...and Snopes
doesn't know either.  We'll have to wait a week to find out.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/vpchange.asp
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket.
 People make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both
his parents died early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms.
 If they both died in office, who would become president?
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi.  Great
reason to vote for McCain!

Doesn't seem very likely Obama is going to drop dead from
smoking and Biden is going to die before he can appoint a VP.

A few minutes searching the web turned up claims that Obama's wife
insisted that he quit smoking before he ran for president.

I couldn't find any pictures of him smoking. Real pictures, that is.
There are plenty that seem to have been altered to add a cigarette,
mostly using the following image:

Loading Image...

[Jeff Lanam]

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 21:42:27 -0700 (PDT), Jeannie

Post by Jeannie
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both died in
office, who would become president?

Obama's father died in a car accident and and his mother died of
ovarian cancer. Last I heard, he doesn't have ovaries.

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by Jeff Lanam

I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents
died early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both
died in office, who would become president?

Obama's father died in a car accident and and his mother died of
ovarian cancer. Last I heard, he doesn't have ovaries.

Yeah, but does he have a car?

[Dana Carpender]

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Jeff Lanam

I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents
died early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both
died in office, who would become president?

Obama's father died in a car accident and and his mother died of
ovarian cancer. Last I heard, he doesn't have ovaries.

Yeah, but does he have a car?

But if he becomes President, will he drive his own car? And will the
car in which he is driven be safer than that driven by his father?

Dana

[Veronique]

Post by Dana Carpender

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Jeff Lanam

I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents
died early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both
died in office, who would become president?

Obama's father died in a car accident and and his mother died of
ovarian cancer. Last I heard, he doesn't have ovaries.

Yeah, but does he have a car?

But if he becomes President, will he drive his own car? And will the
car in which he is driven be safer than that driven by his father?

And will the drive have ovaries?


V. "Or the car?"
--
Veronique Chez Sheep

[M C Hamster]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 21:55:14 -0700 (PDT), Veronique

Post by Veronique

Post by Dana Carpender

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Jeff Lanam

I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents
died early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both
died in office, who would become president?

Obama's father died in a car accident and and his mother died of
ovarian cancer. Last I heard, he doesn't have ovaries.

Yeah, but does he have a car?

But if he becomes President, will he drive his own car? And will the
car in which he is driven be safer than that driven by his father?

And will the drive have ovaries?
V. "Or the car?"

Remember Princess Di? How soon we forget.

[D.F. Manno]

In article

Post by Veronique

Post by Dana Carpender

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Jeff Lanam
Obama's father died in a car accident and and his mother died of
ovarian cancer. Last I heard, he doesn't have ovaries.

Yeah, but does he have a car?

But if he becomes President, will he drive his own car? And will the
car in which he is driven be safer than that driven by his father?

And will the drive have ovaries?
V. "Or the car?

Only if it's a Buick.

[TedTheCat]

<snip>
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. �People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. �If they both died in
office, who would become president?
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi. �Great reason
to vote for McCain!
Jeannie
*According to a 1997 General Accounting Office report, households
headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC
benefits and $430 million in food stamps during 1995. �How much is it
today, one wonders? �And how obvious is it where their allegiance
would lie politically? �Doubtless with the hand that hands out....

Just curious. What is your source or inspiration for the Obama-and-
Biden-die-and-make-Pelosi-president-leading-to-illegal-alien-hell idea?

[Jeannie]

<snip>
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both died in
office, who would become president?
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi. Great reason
to vote for McCain!
Jeannie
*According to a 1997 General Accounting Office report, households
headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC
benefits and $430 million in food stamps during 1995. How much is it
today, one wonders? And how obvious is it where their allegiance
would lie politically? Doubtless with the hand that hands out....

Just curious.   What is your source or inspiration for the Obama-and-
Biden-die-and-make-Pelosi-president-leading-to-illegal-alien-hell idea?

An acquaintance of mine from Ohio sent it to a distribution list I am
on. It caught my attention because the name Pelosi makes my fur stand
up. I looked up the GAO report cite but haven't checked into the
Pelosi-loves-illegal-immigrants one yet...but I do recall reading a
couple of different articles in the newspaper where she was quoted (or
voted) pro-benefits-for-illegal-immigrants.

Ah, here we are:
Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted NO on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project.
(Jun 2006)
Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment.
(May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
Rated 0% by FAIR, indicating a voting record loosening immigration.
(Dec 2003)
Comprehensive immigration reform without amnesty. (May 2005)
Rated 0% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)

Without amnesty, eh? Hmm, that surprises me.

Jeannie

[h***@gmail.com]

Post by Jeannie

Post by Jeannie
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket.
People make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his
parents died early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If
they both died in office, who would become president?
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi. Great
reason to vote for McCain!
*According to a 1997 General Accounting Office report, households
headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC
benefits and $430 million in food stamps during 1995. How much is
it today, one wonders? And how obvious is it where their
allegiance would lie politically? Doubtless with the hand that
hands out....

Just curious. ? What is your source or inspiration for the
Obama-and-Biden-die-and-make-Pelosi-president-leading-to-illegal-alien-hell
idea?

An acquaintance of mine from Ohio sent it to a distribution list I am
on. It caught my attention because the name Pelosi makes my fur stand
up. I looked up the GAO report cite but haven't checked into the
Pelosi-loves-illegal-immigrants one yet...but I do recall reading a
couple of different articles in the newspaper where she was quoted (or
voted) pro-benefits-for-illegal-immigrants.
Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted NO on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project.
(Jun 2006)
Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment.
(May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
Rated 0% by FAIR, indicating a voting record loosening immigration.
(Dec 2003)
Comprehensive immigration reform without amnesty. (May 2005)
Rated 0% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)
Without amnesty, eh? Hmm, that surprises me.

Facts will do that sometimes.

Also? That bill was one she cosponsored with John McCain.

[Veronique]

Post by Jeannie

Post by TedTheCat

<snip>
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both died in
office, who would become president?
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi. Great reason
to vote for McCain!
Jeannie
*According to a 1997 General Accounting Office report, households
headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC
benefits and $430 million in food stamps during 1995. How much is it
today, one wonders? And how obvious is it where their allegiance
would lie politically? Doubtless with the hand that hands out....

Just curious. What is your source or inspiration for the Obama-and-
Biden-die-and-make-Pelosi-president-leading-to-illegal-alien-hell idea?

An acquaintance of mine from Ohio sent it to a distribution list I am
on. It caught my attention because the name Pelosi makes my fur stand
up. I looked up the GAO report cite but haven't checked into the
Pelosi-loves-illegal-immigrants one yet...but I do recall reading a
couple of different articles in the newspaper where she was quoted (or
voted) pro-benefits-for-illegal-immigrants.
Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted NO on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project.
(Jun 2006)
Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment.
(May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
Rated 0% by FAIR, indicating a voting record loosening immigration.
(Dec 2003)
Comprehensive immigration reform without amnesty. (May 2005)
Rated 0% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)
Without amnesty, eh? Hmm, that surprises me.

Huh. These votes pretty much make sense to me.


V.
--
Veronique Chez Sheep

[M C Hamster]

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:58:19 -0700 (PDT), Veronique

Post by Veronique

Post by Jeannie

Post by TedTheCat

<snip>
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both died in
office, who would become president?
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi. Great reason
to vote for McCain!
Jeannie
*According to a 1997 General Accounting Office report, households
headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC
benefits and $430 million in food stamps during 1995. How much is it
today, one wonders? And how obvious is it where their allegiance
would lie politically? Doubtless with the hand that hands out....

Just curious. What is your source or inspiration for the Obama-and-
Biden-die-and-make-Pelosi-president-leading-to-illegal-alien-hell idea?

An acquaintance of mine from Ohio sent it to a distribution list I am
on. It caught my attention because the name Pelosi makes my fur stand
up. I looked up the GAO report cite but haven't checked into the
Pelosi-loves-illegal-immigrants one yet...but I do recall reading a
couple of different articles in the newspaper where she was quoted (or
voted) pro-benefits-for-illegal-immigrants.
Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted NO on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project.
(Jun 2006)
Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment.
(May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
Rated 0% by FAIR, indicating a voting record loosening immigration.
(Dec 2003)
Comprehensive immigration reform without amnesty. (May 2005)
Rated 0% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)
Without amnesty, eh? Hmm, that surprises me.

Huh. These votes pretty much make sense to me.

¿POR QUé ODIAN A AMéRICA?

[Mary]

Post by M C Hamster
On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 20:58:19 -0700 (PDT), Veronique

Post by Veronique

Post by Jeannie

<snip>
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms. If they both died in
office, who would become president?
Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi. Great reason
to vote for McCain!
Jeannie
*According to a 1997 General Accounting Office report, households
headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC
benefits and $430 million in food stamps during 1995. How much is it
today, one wonders? And how obvious is it where their allegiance
would lie politically? Doubtless with the hand that hands out....

Just curious.   What is your source or inspiration for the Obama-and-
Biden-die-and-make-Pelosi-president-leading-to-illegal-alien-hell idea?

An acquaintance of mine from Ohio sent it to a distribution list I am
on.  It caught my attention because the name Pelosi makes my fur stand
up.  I looked up the GAO report cite but haven't checked into the
Pelosi-loves-illegal-immigrants one yet...but I do recall reading a
couple of different articles in the newspaper where she was quoted (or
voted) pro-benefits-for-illegal-immigrants.
Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted NO on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project.
(Jun 2006)
Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment.
(May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
Rated 0% by FAIR, indicating a voting record loosening immigration.
(Dec 2003)
Comprehensive immigration reform without amnesty. (May 2005)
Rated 0% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)
Without amnesty, eh?  Hmm, that surprises me.

Huh. These votes pretty much make sense to me.

¿POR QUé ODIAN A AMéRICA?

Porque "El Caballo Sin Nombre" aspira el asno.

Mary

[Mark Steese]

Mary <***@aol.com> wrote in news:5b07af24-b160-4404-a4ce-***@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
[snip]

Post by Mary

Post by M C Hamster

Post by Veronique

Post by Jeannie
Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted NO on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman
Project. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital
treatment. (May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
Rated 0% by FAIR, indicating a voting record loosening
immigration. (Dec 2003)
Comprehensive immigration reform without amnesty. (May 2005)
Rated 0% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)
Without amnesty, eh?  Hmm, that surprises me.

Huh. These votes pretty much make sense to me.

¿POR QUé ODIAN A AMéRICA?

Porque "El Caballo Sin Nombre" aspira el asno.
Mary

Aspira no, chupa sí.

[Mary]

Post by Mark Steese
[snip]

Post by Mary

Post by M C Hamster

Post by Veronique

Post by Jeannie
Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted NO on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman
Project. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital
treatment. (May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
Rated 0% by FAIR, indicating a voting record loosening
immigration. (Dec 2003)
Comprehensive immigration reform without amnesty. (May 2005)
Rated 0% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)
Without amnesty, eh?  Hmm, that surprises me.

Huh. These votes pretty much make sense to me.

¿POR QUé ODIAN A AMéRICA?

Porque "El Caballo Sin Nombre" aspira el asno.
Mary

Aspira no, chupa sí.

See, I knew I'd get something wrong. I got "porque el caballo sin
nombre" myself but had to alta vista the rest and that NEVER gets it
really right.

Mary

[D.F. Manno]

In article

Post by Jeannie

Yup, Nancy "let's give illegal aliens* the vote" Pelosi. Great reason
to vote for McCain!

<snip>

Post by Jeannie

Just curious.   What is your source or inspiration for the Obama-and-
Biden-die-and-make-Pelosi-president-leading-to-illegal-alien-hell idea?

An acquaintance of mine from Ohio sent it to a distribution list I am
on. It caught my attention because the name Pelosi makes my fur stand
up. I looked up the GAO report cite but haven't checked into the
Pelosi-loves-illegal-immigrants one yet...but I do recall reading a
couple of different articles in the newspaper where she was quoted (or
voted) pro-benefits-for-illegal-immigrants.
Voted NO on building a fence along the Mexican border. (Sep 2006)
Voted NO on preventing tipping off Mexicans about Minuteman Project.
(Jun 2006)
Voted NO on reporting illegal aliens who receive hospital treatment.
(May 2004)
Voted YES on extending Immigrant Residency rules. (May 2001)
Voted YES on more immigrant visas for skilled workers. (Sep 1998)
Rated 0% by FAIR, indicating a voting record loosening immigration.
(Dec 2003)
Comprehensive immigration reform without amnesty. (May 2005)
Rated 0% by USBC, indicating an open-border stance. (Dec 2006)
Without amnesty, eh? Hmm, that surprises me.

None of which supports your inflammatory "give illegal aliens the vote"
slam.

[Hank Gillette]

In article

Post by Jeannie
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms.

Obama would hardly be the first President who smoked -- Grant died of
throat cancer. But, it's rare for smokers to die from smoking-related
causes at his age, and supposedly he has quit (although there have been
reports of his slipping).

I'd think it's much more likely that Palin is replaced than Biden, based
on her performance thus far in interviews.

[Glenn Dowdy]

Post by D.F. Manno
In article

Post by Jeannie
I will say I was/am very nervous about the Democratic ticket. People
make much of McCain's age, but Obama smokes and both his parents died
early...and Biden has had two brain aneurisms.

Obama would hardly be the first President who smoked -- Grant died of
throat cancer. But, it's rare for smokers to die from smoking-related
causes at his age, and supposedly he has quit (although there have been
reports of his slipping).

If President Ryan can smoke under stress, then I guess Obama can too.

Glenn D.

[Geoff Miller]

Post by Glenn Dowdy
If President Ryan can smoke under stress, then I guess
Obama can too.

Heh...I thought about that, too!



Geoff

--
"You know how a pool dries and leaves puddles?
That's how culture works. Santa Cruz is the
sump of the sixties. -- Gadabout Ghandi

[Geoff Miller]

Post by Hank Gillette
Obama would hardly be the first President who smoked -- Grant
died of throat cancer. But, it's rare for smokers to die from
smoking-related causes at his age, and supposedly he has quit
(although there have been reports of his slipping).

I heard somewhere that his wife made him quit as a condition of
her approving his running for president. I'm still scatching
my head over that, trying to figure out what the connection is.

I mean, was she concerned over his public image suffering when
the inevitable photos were snapped of him with a cigarette?
Or was she just seizing on something she knew he really, really
wanted, and using it as leverage for something *she* wanted?



Geoff

--
"You know how a pool dries and leaves puddles?
That's how culture works. Santa Cruz is the
sump of the sixties. -- Gadabout Ghandi