WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?

[Linda Lee]

WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?

Christ said:
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
...
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I
confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against
her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy
of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
of me.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me,
is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.

Christ said some would be "offended" by him, and that those who did
not find him offensive would be blessed:

In Luke 7:23 the Messiah said, "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not
be offended in me."

Obviously, some who would attempt to be believers would be offended in
him if they were hated because of belief in him. But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive, so that others would hate
those who did believe in him, since he went to the Jews, and was a Jew
himself who taught repentance, righteousness, and the way to God?


1. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that belief
in Yahashua`/Jesus as the Son of God, the Lamb of God, and the Christ/
Messiah is a necessary element required to obtain salvation, and that
those who do not believe in him are condemned. This offends those who
don't believe in Christ in that way, or at all.

2. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that
Yahashua`/Jesus taught that the Son of God was YHWH/God himself acting
as the Saviour of the world, the only Saviour. This offends those who
believe in YHWH as the only true God, but who don't believe the Christ
to have been YHWH incarnate.

3. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that only the sins
of those who believe in Christ in the way described above will be
forgiven. This offends some who find it unjust and offensive as the
sins of others are not forgiven.

4. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that believers are
not under the condemnation accorded to sinners under the law of Moses,
but that believers are to love God, love their neighbor, and do good
works of charity and compassion. This offends some who think believers
should remain under the law of Moses if the Gentiles were indeed
joined to the sheep of Israel and have become one fold.


I don't know if there is anything else offensive to others about the
Gospel of Christ, but likely some will be offended I said this was the
"orthodox" opinion. I'd like to know what other things about the
Gospel are offensive besides 1-4 above.

[Sam Taylor]

dear linda,
I doubt it was from the "I've been persucuted fir
Rightiousness Sake Syndrome, you have".
But did he say, gripe, harp, complain, and whine about it
like a Little girl, like you do.
NO he said REJOICE, and BE GLAD, about it
So what is your complaining about is You don't actualy believe what is
written in Scripture.
regards
Sam

Post by Linda Lee
WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
...
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I
confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against
her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy
of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
of me.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me,
is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.
Christ said some would be "offended" by him, and that those who did
In Luke 7:23 the Messiah said, "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not
be offended in me."
Obviously, some who would attempt to be believers would be offended in
him if they were hated because of belief in him. But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive, so that others would hate
those who did believe in him, since he went to the Jews, and was a Jew
himself who taught repentance, righteousness, and the way to God?
1. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that belief
in Yahashua`/Jesus as the Son of God, the Lamb of God, and the Christ/
Messiah is a necessary element required to obtain salvation, and that
those who do not believe in him are condemned. This offends those who
don't believe in Christ in that way, or at all.
2. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that
Yahashua`/Jesus taught that the Son of God was YHWH/God himself acting
as the Saviour of the world, the only Saviour. This offends those who
believe in YHWH as the only true God, but who don't believe the Christ
to have been YHWH incarnate.
3. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that only the sins
of those who believe in Christ in the way described above will be
forgiven. This offends some who find it unjust and offensive as the
sins of others are not forgiven.
4. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that believers are
not under the condemnation accorded to sinners under the law of Moses,
but that believers are to love God, love their neighbor, and do good
works of charity and compassion. This offends some who think believers
should remain under the law of Moses if the Gentiles were indeed
joined to the sheep of Israel and have become one fold.
I don't know if there is anything else offensive to others about the
Gospel of Christ, but likely some will be offended I said this was the
"orthodox" opinion. I'd like to know what other things about the
Gospel are offensive besides 1-4 above.

[unknown]

The problem is that every counterfeit christian group and cult comingdown
the pike ask the same about themselves?

The jw and morman and others ask it and then claim it as their mark of
being correct.

[Linda Lee]

WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?

Christ said:
Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
...
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I
confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against
her mother in law.
Mat 10:36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy
of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
of me.
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me,
is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.

Christ said some would be "offended" by him, and that those who did
not find him offensive would be blessed:

In Luke 7:23 the Messiah said, "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not
be offended in me."

Obviously, some who would attempt to be believers would be offended in
him if they were hated because of belief in him. But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive, so that others would hate
those who did believe in him, since he went to the Jews, and was a Jew
himself who taught repentance, righteousness, and the way to God?

1. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that belief
in Yahashua`/Jesus as the Son of God, the Lamb of God, and the Christ/
Messiah is a necessary element required to obtain salvation, and that
those who do not believe in him are condemned. This offends those who
don't believe in Christ in that way, or at all.

2. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that
Yahashua`/Jesus taught that the Son of God was YHWH/God himself acting
as the Saviour of the world, the only Saviour. This offends those who
believe in YHWH as the only true God, but who don't believe the Christ
to have been YHWH incarnate.

3. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that only the sins
of those who believe in Christ in the way described above will be
forgiven. This offends some who find it unjust and offensive as the
sins of others are not forgiven.

4. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that believers are
not under the condemnation accorded to sinners under the law of Moses,
but that believers are to love God, love their neighbor, and do good
works of charity and compassion. This offends some who think believers
should remain under the law of Moses if the Gentiles were indeed
joined to the sheep of Israel and have become one fold.

I don't know if there is anything else offensive to others about the
Gospel of Christ, but likely some will be offended I said this was the
"orthodox" opinion. I'd like to know what other things about the
Gospel are offensive besides 1-4 above.

[Anathema]

WHY DID CHRIST...

I saw it the first two times.

[Nancy]

Post by Linda Lee
WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?
Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
...
Mat 10:32  Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I
confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33  But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35  For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against
her mother in law.
Mat 10:36  And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37  He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy
of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
of me.
Mat 10:38  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me,
is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.
Christ said some would be "offended" by him, and that those who did
In Luke 7:23 the Messiah said, "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not
be offended in me."
Obviously, some who would attempt to be believers would be offended in
him if they were hated because of belief in him. But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive, so that others would hate
those who did believe in him, since he went to the Jews, and was a Jew
himself who taught repentance, righteousness, and the way to God?
1. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that belief
in Yahashua`/Jesus as the Son of God, the Lamb of God, and the Christ/
Messiah is a necessary element required to obtain salvation, and that
those who do not believe in him are condemned. This offends those who
don't believe in Christ in that way, or at all.

~~~
Nancy

Linda, what do you believe salvation is?

Post by Linda Lee
2. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that
Yahashua`/Jesus taught that the Son of God was YHWH/God himself acting
as the Saviour of the world, the only Saviour. This offends those who
believe in YHWH as the only true God, but who don't believe the Christ
to have been YHWH incarnate.
3. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that only the sins
of those who believe in Christ in the way described above will be
forgiven. This offends some who find it unjust and offensive as the
sins of others are not forgiven.
4. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that believers are
not under the condemnation accorded to sinners under the law of Moses,
but that believers are to love God, love their neighbor, and do good
works of charity and compassion. This offends some who think believers
should remain under the law of Moses if the Gentiles were indeed
joined to the sheep of Israel and have become one fold.
I don't know if there is anything else offensive to others about the
Gospel of Christ, but likely some will be offended I said this was the
"orthodox" opinion. I'd like to know what other things about the
Gospel are offensive besides 1-4 above.

[Linda Lee]

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee
WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?
Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
...
Mat 10:32  Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I
confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33  But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35  For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against
her mother in law.
Mat 10:36  And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37  He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy
of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
of me.
Mat 10:38  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me,
is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.
Christ said some would be "offended" by him, and that those who did
In Luke 7:23 the Messiah said, "And blessed is he, whosoever shall not
be offended in me."
Obviously, some who would attempt to be believers would be offended in
him if they were hated because of belief in him. But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive, so that others would hate
those who did believe in him, since he went to the Jews, and was a Jew
himself who taught repentance, righteousness, and the way to God?
1. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that belief
in Yahashua`/Jesus as the Son of God, the Lamb of God, and the Christ/
Messiah is a necessary element required to obtain salvation, and that
those who do not believe in him are condemned. This offends those who
don't believe in Christ in that way, or at all.

~~~
Nancy
Linda, what do you believe salvation is?

I believe salvation is to escape damnation through repentance and
forgiveness of sins (including the original sin of rejecting God to
follow 'the serpent'), victory over death, and the inheritance of
eternal life in Heaven, returned home to God, where we will be "equal
unto the angels" as children of God.

I cannot really imagine it though; the Scriptures do not explain what
spirit is or what God's realm in Heaven is really like. I doubt it
could be described in concepts people could understand. We have no
real concept of bliss or awe in this world and having never
experienced them, we cannot comprehend them.

Salvation:
Heb. 3444
ישׁוּעה
yeshû‛âh
yesh-oo'-aw
Feminine passive participle of H3467; something saved, that is,
(abstractly) deliverance; hence aid, victory, prosperity".

Deliver - Heb. 6403 - "to slip out, that is, escape; causatively to
deliver".

Now, would you like to answer my question posed in this thread also
about what people find offensive about the Gospel of Christ? That is,
if it applies to you. I don't really know what you believe, or if
you've even developed any firm beliefs yet. I've seen you say you
recently started studying and that you're excited about it. That's a
good sign. I would appreciate your input on what you find unacceptable
about the traditional belief concerning the Gospel of Christ.

At one time, before I had read the Scriptures, I thought it would be
just and right that God eventually saved everyone, and believed that
for a time, but looking into the Gospel, I saw some of Christ's words
indicated otherwise (such as Matt. 7:13-14 and Matt. 25:41). So I had
to decide which was right and truly just, my idea or the words of
Christ.

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee
2. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ maintains that
Yahashua`/Jesus taught that the Son of God was YHWH/God himself acting
as the Saviour of the world, the only Saviour. This offends those who
believe in YHWH as the only true God, but who don't believe the Christ
to have been YHWH incarnate.
3. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that only the sins
of those who believe in Christ in the way described above will be
forgiven. This offends some who find it unjust and offensive as the
sins of others are not forgiven.
4. The orthodox opinion on the Gospel of Christ is that believers are
not under the condemnation accorded to sinners under the law of Moses,
but that believers are to love God, love their neighbor, and do good
works of charity and compassion. This offends some who think believers
should remain under the law of Moses if the Gentiles were indeed
joined to the sheep of Israel and have become one fold.
I don't know if there is anything else offensive to others about the
Gospel of Christ, but likely some will be offended I said this was the
"orthodox" opinion. I'd like to know what other things about the
Gospel are offensive besides 1-4 above.

[Nancy]

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee
WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?
Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
...
Mat 10:32  Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I
confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33  But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35  For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against
her mother in law.
Mat 10:36  And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37  He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy
of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
of me.
Mat 10:38  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me,
is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.

~~~
Nancy

I believe what is being talked about in these verses is.....those of
the Church that obey God's Laws and believe that it takes more than
faith, but it takes faith AND obedience to God are the ones being
talked about.

Like Vince calling me an anti-christ because I obey God's Laws.....and
he calls himself a saint because he doesn't.

Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.

See, it's so simple even someone like me can understand.....8-)
~~~
<snip>

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Nancy
Nancy
Linda, what do you believe salvation is?

I believe salvation is to escape damnation through repentance and
forgiveness of sins (including the original sin of rejecting God to
follow 'the serpent'), victory over death, and the inheritance of
eternal life in Heaven, returned home to God, where we will be "equal
unto the angels" as children of God.

~~~
Nancy

This is what I have found about salvation....

This is the first time this word is used in the Scriptures,,,,,

13 And Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. Stand still, and
see the salvation of the Lord, which He will accomplish for you today.
For the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall see again no more
forever
Ex 14:13 (NKJV)

Then I find salvation is of the Jews....Christians are not mentioned
here..

22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for
salvation is of the Jews.
John 4:22 (NKJV)

Then I see Christ will fight for this salavtion...

1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zech 14:1-2 (NKJV)

This fight will take place in the land of little Israel.

3 Then the Lord will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Zech 14:3-4 (NKJV)

Then I see that the Saints coming with the Lord....they aren't in
heaven floating on a cloud, Linda, they are right in the thick of the
battle.

5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
Thus the Lord my God will come,
And all the saints with You.
Zech 14:5 (NKJV)

Wanting to know who these Saints are....

9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of
those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony
which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How
long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on
those who dwell on the earth?" 11 Then a white robe was given to each
of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while
longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their
brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Rev 6:9-11 (NKJV)

These are humans that have been martyred and brought back to
life....they are not spirit beings.

Then look in

Rev.7:10, 12:10 and Rev19:1

we are told salavtion beings to our God.....He is going to take HIs
creation out of the hands of satan and his demons....this is the
bottom line of what all of this has been about, Linda, God taking back
His creation.

It is NOT about saving manking to fly them off to heaven.....it is
about those willing to stand with God to fight for what is His.
~~~

Post by Linda Lee
I cannot really imagine it though; the Scriptures do not explain what\
spirit is or what God's realm in Heaven is really like. I doubt it
could be described in concepts people could understand. We have no
real concept of bliss or awe in this world and having never
experienced them, we cannot comprehend them.
Heb. 3444
ישׁוּעה
yeshû‛âh
yesh-oo'-aw
Feminine passive participle of H3467; something saved, that is,
(abstractly) deliverance; hence aid, victory, prosperity".
Deliver - Heb. 6403 - "to slip out, that is, escape; causatively to
deliver".
Now, would you like to answer my question posed in this thread also
about what people find offensive about the Gospel of Christ? That is,
if it applies to you. I don't really know what you believe, or if
you've even developed any firm beliefs yet. I've seen you say you
recently started studying and that you're excited about it. That's a
good sign. I would appreciate your input on what you find unacceptable
about the traditional belief concerning the Gospel of Christ.
At one time, before I had read the Scriptures, I thought it would be
just and right that God eventually saved everyone, and believed that
for a time, but looking into the Gospel, I saw some of Christ's words
indicated otherwise (such as Matt. 7:13-14 and Matt. 25:41). So I had
to decide which was right and truly just, my idea or the words of
Christ.

<snip>

[Linda Lee]

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee
WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?
Mat 10:22  And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
...
Mat 10:32  Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I
confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:33  But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also
deny before my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 10:34  Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not
to send peace, but a sword.
Mat 10:35  For I am come to set a man at variance against his father,
and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against
her mother in law.
Mat 10:36  And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Mat 10:37  He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy
of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy
of me.
Mat 10:38  And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me,
is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39  He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth
his life for my sake shall find it.

~~~
Nancy
I believe what is being talked about in these verses is.....those of
the Church that obey God's Laws and believe that it takes more than
faith, but it takes faith AND obedience to God are the ones being
talked about.
Like Vince calling me an anti-christ because I obey God's Laws.....and
he calls himself a saint because he doesn't.

Vince doesn't espouse sinning; he simply says Christians are not held
to condemnation under the law of Moses, which is the traditional
understanding of the Gospel of Christ.

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.
See, it's so simple even someone like me can understand.....8-)
~~~
<snip>

That doesn't address the second question posed - the question of why
people are offended at the traditional understanding of the Gospel of
Christ. Perhaps you also hold the traditional understanding of the
Gospel of Christ? Is that why you are not commenting on that subject?
Are you offended by it or not?

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Nancy
Nancy
Linda, what do you believe salvation is?

I believe salvation is to escape damnation through repentance and
forgiveness of sins (including the original sin of rejecting God to
follow 'the serpent'), victory over death, and the inheritance of
eternal life in Heaven, returned home to God, where we will be "equal
unto the angels" as children of God.

~~~
Nancy
This is what I have found about salvation....
This is the first time this word is used in the Scriptures,,,,,
13 And Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. Stand still, and
see the salvation of the Lord, which He will accomplish for you today.
For the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall see again no more
forever
Ex 14:13 (NKJV)
Then I find salvation is of the Jews....Christians are not mentioned
here..

Salvation is of the Jews because the Saviour would come through the
lineage of Israel, being a son of Abraham, and a son of David!

I'm not sure what you're implying. Are you denying Christ saves
Gentiles? Do you deny that Christ said in John 10:16 that he had
"other sheep" who were NOT of "this fold" (i.e. the fold of the lost
sheep of the house of Israel) who would also hear his voice, and whom
he said he would also bring into the fold, making them all one fold
with one shepherd?

John 10:16 the Messiah said, "And other sheep I have, which are not of
this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and
there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

Post by Nancy
22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for
salvation is of the Jews.
John 4:22 (NKJV)
Then I see Christ will fight for this salavtion...
1 Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
 And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
 The city shall be taken,
 The houses rifled,
 And the women ravished.
 Half of the city shall go into captivity,
 But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zech 14:1-2 (NKJV)
This fight will take place in the land of little Israel.
3 Then the Lord will go forth
 And fight against those nations,
 As He fights in the day of battle.
 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
 Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
 And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
 From east to west,
 Making a very large valley;
 Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
 And half of it toward the south.
Zech 14:3-4 (NKJV)
Then I see that the Saints coming with the Lord....they aren't in
heaven floating on a cloud, Linda, they are right in the thick of the
battle.

That is not the afterlife. And I didn't say anyone would be floating
on a cloud.

Post by Nancy
5 Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
 For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
 Yes, you shall flee
 As you fled from the earthquake
 In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.
 Thus the Lord my God will come,
 And all the saints with You.
Zech 14:5 (NKJV)
Wanting to know who these Saints are....
9 When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of
those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony
which they held. 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How
long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on
those who dwell on the earth?" 11 Then a white robe was given to each
of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while
longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their
brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Rev 6:9-11 (NKJV)
These are humans that have been martyred and brought back to
life....they are not spirit beings.

You're claiming a physical "afterlife" that goes on forever without
death or sickness? Kind of like superhumans? I always like the
Superman comics as a child.

Post by Nancy
Then look in
Rev.7:10,

So your vision includes no sun in this afterlife? And "neither shall
the sun light on them, nor any heat" (Rev. 7:16).

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man
could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues,
stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white
robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God
which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about
the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their
faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and
thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for
ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are
these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me,
These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed
their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him
day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall
dwell among them.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither
shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed
them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God
shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Post by Nancy
12:10

Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come
salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of
his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which
accused them before our God day and night.


?

Post by Nancy
and Rev19:1

This says they're "in heaven":
Rev 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people
IN HEAVEN, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and
power, unto the Lord our God:

It says they're in heaven; you say not.

Post by Nancy
we are told salavtion beings to our God.....He is going to take HIs
creation out of the hands of satan and his demons....this is the
bottom line of what all of this has been about, Linda, God taking back
His creation.
It is NOT about saving manking to fly them off to heaven.....it is
about those willing to stand with God to fight for what is His.

I can't agree with your physical literal "afterlife". Christ promised
something better than that.

Luk 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that
world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are
given in marriage:
Luk 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the
angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the
resurrection.
Luk 20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the
bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of
Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
Luk 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all
live unto him.


Rev 18:1 "And after these things I saw another angel come down from
heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his
glory."

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee
I cannot really imagine it though; the Scriptures do not explain what\
spirit is or what God's realm in Heaven is really like. I doubt it
could be described in concepts people could understand. We have no
real concept of bliss or awe in this world and having never
experienced them, we cannot comprehend them.
Heb. 3444
ישׁוּעה
yeshû‛âh
yesh-oo'-aw
Feminine passive participle of H3467; something saved, that is,
(abstractly) deliverance; hence aid, victory, prosperity".
Deliver - Heb. 6403 - "to slip out, that is, escape; causatively to
deliver".
Now, would you like to answer my question posed in this thread also
about what people find offensive about the Gospel of Christ? That is,
if it applies to you. I don't really know what you believe, or if
you've even developed any firm beliefs yet. I've seen you say you
recently started studying and that you're excited about it. That's a
good sign. I would appreciate your input on what you find unacceptable
about the traditional belief concerning the Gospel of Christ.
At one time, before I had read the Scriptures, I thought it would be
just and right that God eventually saved everyone, and believed that
for a time, but looking into the Gospel, I saw some of Christ's words
indicated otherwise (such as Matt. 7:13-14 and Matt. 25:41). So I had
to decide which was right and truly just, my idea or the words of
Christ.

<snip>

[duke]

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Nancy
Like Vince calling me an anti-christ because I obey God's Laws.....and
he calls himself a saint because he doesn't.

Vince doesn't espouse sinning; he simply says Christians are not held
to condemnation under the law of Moses, which is the traditional
understanding of the Gospel of Christ.

Yep, the Gospel of Jesus says:

Matthew 19:17 (New International Version)
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One
who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”


duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[Anathema]

Post by duke
Matthew 19:17 (New International Version)
17 "Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied.
"There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life,
keep the commandments."

Hard to argue with that.

[Anathema]

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Nancy
Like Vince calling me an anti-christ because I obey
God's Laws.....and he calls himself a saint because
he doesn't.

Vince doesn't espouse sinning; he simply says Christians
are not held to condemnation under the law of Moses

Which is true *if*, by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds
of the body. For by the Spirit you shall live, and not according
to the lusts of the flesh.

We do not nullify the Law by this faith, rather we uphold it.

[Nancy]

On Jan 21, 12:43 pm, Linda Lee <***@juno.com> wrote:
<snip>

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Linda Lee
WHY DID CHRIST SAY BELIEVERS WOULD BE HATED, AND WHY ARE PEOPLE
OFFENDED BY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?

Matt:10:22 ; Matt. 10:32-39
<snip>

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Nancy
~~~
Nancy
I believe what is being talked about in these verses is.....those of
the Church that obey God's Laws and believe that it takes more than
faith, but it takes faith AND obedience to God are the ones being
talked about.
Like Vince calling me an anti-christ because I obey God's Laws.....and
he calls himself a saint because he doesn't.

Vince doesn't espouse sinning; he simply says Christians are not held
to condemnation under the law of Moses, which is the traditional
understanding of the Gospel of Christ.

~~~
Nancy

Well, it doesn't matter what Vince or I say....it's what God says that
we must go by.

4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by
bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'
Matt 4:3-4 (NKJV)
~~~

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.
See, it's so simple even someone like me can understand.....8-)
~~~
<snip>

That doesn't address the second question posed - the question of why
people are offended at the traditional understanding of the Gospel of
Christ.  Perhaps you also hold the traditional understanding of the
Gospel of Christ? Is that why you are not commenting on that subject?
Are you offended by it or not?

~~~
Nancy

I will go back and look at this question....I'll will try to answer
you, Linda.
~~~
<snip>

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee
I believe salvation is to escape damnation through repentance and
forgiveness of sins (including the original sin of rejecting God to
follow 'the serpent'), victory over death, and the inheritance of
eternal life in Heaven, returned home to God, where we will be "equal
unto the angels" as children of God.

~~~
Nancy
This is what I have found about salvation....
This is the first time this word is used in the Scriptures,,,,,
13 And Moses said to the people, "Do not be afraid. Stand still, and
see the salvation of the Lord, which He will accomplish for you today.
For the Egyptians whom you see today, you shall see again no more
forever
Ex 14:13 (NKJV)
Then I find salvation is of the Jews....Christians are not mentioned
here..

Salvation is of the Jews because the Saviour would come through the
lineage of Israel, being a son of Abraham, and a son of David!

~~~
Nancy
Yes, this is true.....for those God is calling to come under the New
Covenant, but there is to come another time of salvation. This will
also come through the Jews.....for physical people. God did not create
all of the physical for naught.
~~~

Post by Linda Lee
I'm not sure what you're implying. Are you denying Christ saves
Gentiles?  Do you deny that Christ said in John 10:16 that he had
"other sheep" who were NOT of "this fold" (i.e. the fold of the lost
sheep of the house of Israel) who would also hear his voice, and whom
he said he would also bring into the fold, making them all one fold
with one shepherd?
John 10:16 the Messiah said, "And other sheep I have, which are not of
this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and
there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

~~~
Nancy
Yes, I believe Gentiles can and some do come under the New Covenant.

There are two separtate groups within those God is calling.

The Church, which is to become the Permanent Priesthood under Jesus
Christ. I believe this group will have 144,000. They are the Bride of
Christ.

There is another group called the Brotherhood, Levite priest, that
will come under the Father. This group will be in the 3rd Temple and
direct the Temple duties.

Go read...there is a wealth of knowledge there. You don't have to say
anythiong to anyone....take your Bible and see if what is being said
is truth.

www.zionministry.com/Malachi/Malaci.htm
~~~

Post by Linda Lee
That is not the afterlife. And I didn't say anyone would be floating
on a cloud.

~~~
Nancy
Well, what do you think you will be doing in heaven?
~~~
<snip>

Post by Linda Lee

Post by Nancy
These are humans that have been martyred and brought back to
life....they are not spirit beings.

You're claiming a physical "afterlife" that goes on forever without
death or sickness? Kind of like superhumans? I always like the
Superman comics as a child.

~~~
Nancy

God didn't create no junk, Linda. Why not? Why not a human living a
thousand years or a million years...or forever? God is the Sustainer
of all that is....everything. Because humans have put limitations on
what He can or can not do...proves how ignorant they are of Him....

14 If He should set His heart on it,
If He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath,
15 All flesh would perish together,
And man would return to dust.
Job 34:14-15 (NKJV)

But no I don't think everyone will be physical.....perhaps some day we
will talk again

[Anathema]

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee
Vince doesn't espouse sinning; he simply says Christians
are not held to condemnation under the law of Moses,
which is the traditional understanding of the Gospel of Christ.

~~~
Nancy
Well, it doesn't matter what Vince or I say....it's what God says
that we must go by.
4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live
by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the
mouth of God.' Matt 4:3-4 (NKJV)

Well said.

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee
That is not the afterlife. And I didn't say anyone would be
floating on a cloud.

~~~
Nancy
Well, what do you think you will be doing in heaven?

<chuckle> I asked a similar question.

Post by Nancy
~~~
Nancy
Why not? ... <snip>
But no I don't think everyone will be physical

Nancy, I would gently call to your attention
1 Corinthians 15:39-54.

[Nancy]

Post by Anathema

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee
Vince doesn't espouse sinning; he simply says Christians
are not held to condemnation under the law of Moses,
which is the traditional understanding of the Gospel of Christ.

 ~~~
Nancy
Well, it doesn't matter what Vince or I say....it's what God says
that we must go by.
 4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live
by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the
mouth of God.'  Matt 4:3-4 (NKJV)

Well said.

Post by Nancy

Post by Linda Lee
That is not the afterlife. And I didn't say anyone would be
floating on a cloud.

~~~
Nancy
Well, what do you think you will be doing in heaven?

<chuckle>  I asked a similar question.

Post by Nancy
~~~
Nancy
Why not? ... <snip>
But no I don't think everyone will be physical

Nancy, I would gently call to your attention
1 Corinthians 15:39-54.-

~~~
Nancy

Oh, you don't have to be gentle with me....I'm a big girl. 8-)

I know, these are the ones under the New Covenant....these will
replace the spirits of the evil spiritual forces (teh demons)in the
heavenly realm. When they are locked up for the thousand years. Those
under the New Covenant will be God's helpers in His Kingdom. 8-) It's
that the most awesome thing....

12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against
principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of
this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly
places.
Eph 6:12 (NKJV)

[Anathema]

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema
Nancy, I would gently call to your attention
1 Corinthians 15:39-54.-

~~~
Nancy
Oh, you don't have to be gentle with me....I'm
a big girl. 8-)

Indubitably. And I have seen that you can hold your own.

Post by Nancy
I know, these are the ones under the New Covenant....
these will replace the spirits of the evil spiritual forces
(teh demons)in the heavenly realm. When they are locked
up for the thousand years. Those under the New Covenant
will be God's helpers in His Kingdom. 8-)

Is that something from Mr. Stevens?

Post by Nancy
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against
principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of
this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly
places.
Eph 6:12 (NKJV)

Amen.

[Nancy]

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema
Nancy, I would gently call to your attention
1 Corinthians 15:39-54.-

~~~
Nancy
Oh, you don't have to be gentle with me....I'm
a big girl. 8-)

Indubitably.  And I have seen that you can hold your own.

Post by Nancy
I know, these are the ones under the New Covenant....
these will replace the spirits of the evil spiritual forces
(teh demons)in the heavenly realm. When they are locked
up for the thousand years. Those under the New Covenant
will be God's helpers in His Kingdom. 8-)

Is that something from Mr. Stevens?

~~~
Nancy

Of course, he is God's endtime prophet! 8-)

What else could they be doing?
~~~

Post by Nancy
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against
principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of
this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly
places.
Eph 6:12 (NKJV)

Amen.

[Anathema]

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema

Post by Nancy
I know, these are the ones under the New Covenant....
these will replace the spirits of the evil spiritual forces
(teh demons)in the heavenly realm. When they are locked
up for the thousand years. Those under the New Covenant
will be God's helpers in His Kingdom. 8-)

Is that something from Mr. Stevens?

~~~
Nancy
Of course, he is God's endtime prophet! 8-)

As I do think you already well know my position
with regard to Mr. Stevens, I won't enter into that
discussion.

Post by Nancy
What else could they be doing?

With regard to 1 Corinthians 15:

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and
blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither
doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I
tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we
shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling
of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall
sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible
must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put
on immortality.

In the above, IMO Paul clearly writes that we shall not
die, but we shall *all* be changed. For those who enter
the kingdom, do not enter in this corrupt and fleshly
body. Rather, we are changed as in verse 53.

[Nancy]

Post by Anathema

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema

Post by Nancy
I know, these are the ones under the New Covenant....
these will replace the spirits of the evil spiritual forces
(teh demons)in the heavenly realm. When they are locked
up for the thousand years. Those under the New Covenant
will be God's helpers in His Kingdom. 8-)

Is that something from Mr. Stevens?

~~~
Nancy
Of course, he is God's endtime prophet! 8-)

As I do think you already well know my position
with regard to Mr. Stevens, I won't enter into that
discussion.

~~~
Nancy
Truthfully, I could not remember how you stood....now, I understand
why God had to get me alone to teach me.
~~~

Post by Anathema

Post by Nancy
What else could they be doing?

1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and
blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither
doth corruption inherit incorruption.  51 Behold, I
tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we
shall all be changed,  52 in a moment, in the twinkling
of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall
sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible,
and we shall be changed.  53 For this corruptible
must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put
on immortality.
In the above, IMO Paul clearly writes that we shall not
die, but we shall *all* be changed.  For those who enter
the kingdom, do not enter in this corrupt and fleshly
body.  Rather, we are changed as in verse 53

~~~
Nancy

That applies only to those called under the New Covenant.
It doesn't say what they will be doing.....it only says what they will
become.

God will have a physical Kingdom of physical people.

20 "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isaiah 65:20-22 (NKJV)

[Anathema]

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema
As I do think you already well know my position
with regard to Mr. Stevens, I won't enter into that
discussion.

~~~
Nancy
Truthfully, I could not remember how you stood....now,
I understand why God had to get me alone to teach me.

I am sure that Neville and some of the others if they still
remain shall remember me none to kindly.

I always tried to encourage you to study and allow
God to teach you.

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema
1Co 15:50-53
In the above, IMO Paul clearly writes that we shall not
die, but we shall *all* be changed. For those who enter
the kingdom, do not enter in this corrupt and fleshly
body. Rather, we are changed as in verse 53

~~~
Nancy
That applies only to those called under the New Covenant.

I can agree with that.

Post by Nancy
It doesn't say what they will be doing.....it only says what
they will become.

Agreed.

Post by Nancy
God will have a physical Kingdom of physical people.

Agreed. However, taking Paul into account, it shall not
be in this corrupt flesh that we now inhabit. But rather
in, if you will permit me, a "better" form.

Yes, I do realize that that is not the best way to word it.


1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this
I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the
kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but
we shall all be changed

Post by Nancy
20 "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isaiah 65:20-22 (NKJV)

I also have quoted that recently Nancy. For the kingdom
is certainly not floating about on a cloud playing a harp and
singing hymns all day for all eternity.

So we seem to agree with regard to this.

[Nancy]

Post by Anathema

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema
As I do think you already well know my position
with regard to Mr. Stevens, I won't enter into that
discussion.

~~~
Nancy
Truthfully, I could not remember how you stood....now,
I understand why God had to get me alone to teach me.

.

Post by Anathema
I am sure that Neville and some of the others if they still
remain shall remember me none to kindly.

~~~
Nancy

They have not said anything to me about you....God is the One leading
me.
~~~

Post by Anathema
I always tried to encourage you to study and allow
God to teach you.

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema
1Co 15:50-53
In the above, IMO Paul clearly writes that we shall not
die, but we shall *all* be changed. For those who enter
the kingdom, do not enter in this corrupt and fleshly
body. Rather, we are changed as in verse 53

~~~
Nancy
That applies only to those called under the New Covenant.

I can agree with that.

Post by Nancy
It doesn't say what they will be doing.....it only says what
they will become.

Agreed.

Post by Nancy
God will have a physical Kingdom of physical people.

Agreed.  However, taking Paul into account, it shall not
be in this corrupt flesh that we now inhabit.  But rather
in, if you will permit me, a "better" form.
Yes, I do realize that that is not the best way to word it.
1Co 15:49  And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.  50 Now this
I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the
kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but
we shall all be changed

Post by Nancy
20 "No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
Isaiah 65:20-22 (NKJV)

I also have quoted that recently Nancy.  For the kingdom
is certainly not floating about on a cloud playing a harp and
singing hymns all day for all eternity.
So we seem to agree with regard to this.

~~~
Nancy

No, we don't.....you believe the whole of the Kingdom of God will be
spirit beings or human look alikes with newer and better bodies.

I do not....I believe those that were the Church will become spirit
beings and take the place of demons in the heavenly realm. They will
do the opposite of what the demons have done, in fact, this is what
they will be doing for the humans

21 Your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying,
"This is the way, walk in it,"
Whenever you turn to the right hand
Or whenever you turn to the left.
Isaiah 30:21 (NKJV)

The most part of God's KIngdom will be human people....just like you
and me...made of the very same stuff. As time goes on and sin is
extinguished...the more the Kingdom expands....the longer they will
live.

19 For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem;
Isaiah 30:19 a (NKJV)

[Anathema]

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema
I am sure that Neville and some of the others if they
still remain shall remember me none to kindly.

~~~
Nancy
They have not said anything to me about you....

Been a long long time now.

Post by Nancy
God is the One leading me.

As it should be.

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema

Post by Nancy
Isaiah 65:20-22 (NKJV)

I also have quoted that recently Nancy. For the kingdom
is certainly not floating about on a cloud playing a harp and
singing hymns all day for all eternity.
So we seem to agree with regard to this.

~~~
Nancy
No, we don't.....

With regard to Isaiah 65:20-22 and the kingdom, we agree.

Post by Nancy
you believe the whole of the Kingdom of God will be
spirit beings or human look alikes with newer and
better bodies.

Yes, there we disagree.

Post by Nancy
I do not....I believe those that were the Church will
become spirit beings and take the place of demons
in the heavenly realm. They will do the opposite of
what the demons have done, in fact, this is what
they will be doing for the humans

There, we also disagree. For I believe that those of
the heavenly realm have already been cast down.

Post by Nancy
21 Your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying,
"This is the way, walk in it," Whenever you turn to
the right hand Or whenever you turn to the left.
Isaiah 30:21 (NKJV)

Good verse. One that I also truly appreciate.

Post by Nancy
The most part of God's Kingdom will be human people....
just like you and me...made of the very same stuff. As
time goes on and sin is extinguished...the more the
Kingdom expands....the longer they will live.

Here we both agree and disagree. For I agree they
shall be people, just not in the same 'flesh'. I agree
that life there is not eternal, for it shall be as the life
of a tree.

[Anathema]

Post by Anathema

Post by Nancy
They have not said anything to me about you....

Been a long long time now.

I am sure that Virgil would remember, as would
Donna, and Eagle.

[H.E. Eickleberry]

will be God's helpers in His Kingdom. 8-)

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema
Is that something from Mr. Stevens?

~~~
Nancy
Of course, he is God's endtime prophet! 8-)

Oh, you have no idea how deluded you are.

He is not an "endtime prophet;" he is an endtime FALSE PROPHET, just as
Jesus and the boys said would happen.

Ike

[Nancy]

Post by Nancy
will be God's helpers in His Kingdom. 8-)

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema
Is that something from Mr. Stevens?

~~~
Nancy
Of course, he is God's endtime prophet! 8-)

Oh, you have no idea how deluded you are.
He is not an "endtime prophet;" he is an endtime FALSE PROPHET, just as
Jesus and the boys said would happen.

~~~
Nancy

Prove he is false.

Post by Nancy
Ike
--http://thetriunist.weebly.com/index.htmlhttp://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/The-Triune-Hypothesis/102657...

[H.E. Eickleberry]

Post by Nancy

Post by Nancy
will be God's helpers in His Kingdom. 8-)

Post by Nancy

Post by Anathema
Is that something from Mr. Stevens?

~~~
Nancy
Of course, he is God's endtime prophet! 8-)

Oh, you have no idea how deluded you are.
He is not an "endtime prophet;" he is an endtime FALSE PROPHET, just as
Jesus and the boys said would happen.

~~~
Nancy
Prove he is false.

He is proven false simply by the time and place he lives in.

The "endtime prophets" will be Moses and Elijah, and the 144,000.

Hence, he can't be anything BUT an endtime FALSE PROPHET if fools like
you are calling him an "endtime prophet."

Even funnier, IT'S NOT THE "ENDTIMES" YET, as this game hasn't even
begun yet--we're still in the pre-prophecy of the seven letters.

The seal on the scroll hasn't even been broken yet.

<chuckle>

Ike

[Nancy]

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy
Nancy
Of course, he is God's endtime prophet! 8-)

Oh, you have no idea how deluded you are.
He is not an "endtime prophet;" he is an endtime FALSE PROPHET, just as
Jesus and the boys said would happen.

~~~
Nancy
Prove he is false.

He is proven false simply by the time and place he lives in.
The "endtime prophets" will be Moses and Elijah, and the 144,000.
Hence, he can't be anything BUT an endtime FALSE PROPHET if fools like
you are calling him an "endtime prophet."
Even funnier, IT'S NOT THE "ENDTIMES" YET, as this game hasn't even
begun yet--we're still in the pre-prophecy of the seven letters.
The seal on the scroll hasn't even been broken yet.

~~~
Nancy

Elijah is to come ~before~ the endtimes....BEFORE. People talk about
John the Baptist being Elijah
....there was nothing to restore....the Church had not yet been
established.


11 Jesus answered and said to them, "Indeed, Elijah is coming first
and will restore all things.
Matt 17:11 (NKJV)

19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to
heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and
the morning star rises in your hearts
2 Peter 1:19 (NKJV)
~~~

Post by H.E. Eickleberry
<chuckle>
Ike
--http://thetriunist.weebly.com/index.htmlhttp://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/The-Triune-Hypothesis/102657...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[H.E. Eickleberry]

Post by Nancy

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy
Nancy
Of course, he is God's endtime prophet! 8-)

Oh, you have no idea how deluded you are.
He is not an "endtime prophet;" he is an endtime FALSE PROPHET, just as
Jesus and the boys said would happen.

~~~
Nancy
Prove he is false.

He is proven false simply by the time and place he lives in.
The "endtime prophets" will be Moses and Elijah, and the 144,000.
Hence, he can't be anything BUT an endtime FALSE PROPHET if fools like
you are calling him an "endtime prophet."
Even funnier, IT'S NOT THE "ENDTIMES" YET, as this game hasn't even
begun yet--we're still in the pre-prophecy of the seven letters.
The seal on the scroll hasn't even been broken yet.

~~~
Nancy
Elijah is to come ~before~ the endtimes....BEFORE.

WRONG.

Jesus said "truly Elijah shall come and restore all things."

He didn't say "before;" He said WHEN.

Post by Nancy
People talk about
John the Baptist being Elijah
....there was nothing to restore....the Church had not yet been
established.

Foolish woman: Jesus was talking about the balance between the sons of
God and the sons of men, a.k.a the Gentiles and Israel.

And it was ISRAEL that Jesus was talking about, which He will do
starting with the Remnant yet to come who will "keep the commandments of
God AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ," etc, etc.

Post by Nancy
11 Jesus answered and said to them, "Indeed, Elijah is coming first
and will restore all things.
Matt 17:11 (NKJV)

Yep. That's what Jesus said. And He DIDN'T say "before," but WHEN, i.e.
"IS coming first to RESTORE all things."

And half of that "thing" is THE LITERAL ISRAEL.

But, of course, the various "I am Israel" cults, such as yours, don't
TEACH the restoration of the LITERAL Israel, co-opting the concept to
themselves, as if they have anything to do with it.

Post by Nancy
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to
heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and
the morning star rises in your hearts
2 Peter 1:19 (NKJV)

First of all, 2 Peter is spurious.

Nonetheless, this has nothing to do with the fact that the "restoration"
will be of the LITERAL Israel, staring with those 144,000
Israelite-Christians that John keeps talking about.

You are demonstrating precisely why Paul said a woman should never
teach; your ignorance is astonishing.

Ike

[Nancy]

Post by vince garcia

Post by Nancy
~~~
Nancy
Elijah is to come ~before~ the endtimes....BEFORE.

WRONG.
Jesus said "truly Elijah shall come and restore all things."
He didn't say "before;" He said WHEN.

Post by Nancy
People talk about
John the Baptist being Elijah
....there was nothing to restore....the Church had not yet been
established.

Foolish woman: Jesus was talking about the balance between the sons of
God and the sons of men, a.k.a the Gentiles and Israel.

~~~
Nancy
Show me the Scripture that says Jesus is talking about ~balance~
between anything.
~~~

Post by vince garcia
And it was ISRAEL that Jesus was talking about, which He will do
starting with the Remnant yet to come who will "keep the commandments of
God AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ," etc, etc.

~~~
Nancy
I never said it wasn't. I did say when the Kingdom of God is
established it would be established among human people on the physical
earth....go back and reread the Scriptures.
~~~

Post by vince garcia

Post by Nancy
11 Jesus answered and said to them, "Indeed, Elijah is coming first
and will restore all things.
Matt 17:11 (NKJV)

Yep. That's what Jesus said. And He DIDN'T say "before," but WHEN, i.e.
"IS coming first to RESTORE all things."
~~~

Nancy
What do you believe Elijah will restore? The physical Nation of
Israel? This too is true...Elijah will be in Jerusalem....he and other
Levite priests. Little Israel will join with then to ~rescue~ the lost
ten tribes.
educate yourself.....go read and study....humble yourself and sak God
to show you.....
www.zionministry.com

~~~

Post by vince garcia
And half of that "thing" is THE LITERAL ISRAEL.
But, of course, the various "I am Israel" cults, such as yours, don't
TEACH the restoration of the LITERAL Israel, co-opting the concept to
themselves, as if they have anything to do with it.

Post by Nancy
19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to
heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and
the morning star rises in your hearts
2 Peter 1:19 (NKJV)

First of all, 2 Peter is spurious.
Nonetheless, this has nothing to do with the fact that the "restoration"
will be of the LITERAL Israel, staring with those 144,000
Israelite-Christians that John keeps talking about.
You are demonstrating precisely why Paul said a woman should never
teach; your ignorance is astonishing.

~~~
Nancy
A teacher is the one thing I know God has not called me to be. This is
where you will find the teacher.
www.zionministry.com

Not being a teacher does not mean I had not studied God
word.....infact, God had directed my studies.

You are a false teacher....and I would not be in your shoes for all
the tea in China.

Post by vince garcia
Ike
--http://thetriunist.weebly.com/index.htmlhttp://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/The-Triune-Hypothesis/102657...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[Linda Lee]

In Matt. 7:12-14, Christ confirmed that the way to the narrow gate
that leads to life is to do unto others as you would have them do unto
you; that this is the fulfillment of "the law and the prophets". This
is popularly known as The Golden Rule. (Elsewhere in John 3:14-16,
the Messiah says that those who do not believe in him are condemned
already - before they have done or not done anything else).

If that was all it took (following the Golden Rule) to be a Christian,
a "believer", a "follower of Jesus", the world would NOT hate the
Christian Gospel and Christians; believers who preached the Gospel
would be loved instead of being hated - just as the Messiah said they
would be (John 15:18 & 17:14).


So what brings out the hatred toward believers? We've been told many
times here, and it is the fact that the Gospel teaches that anyone not
believing in Christ is condemned to Hell and damnation; that truth is
what brings on the hatred. The truth of salvation is turned around and
anyone proclaiming the Gospel is accused of being evil and condemning
because they believe that Gospel. Good is made into evil and evil is
made into good. Heresies have indeed arisen in which "the way of truth
shall be evil spoken of" (II Pet. 2:1-2).


Christians are hated for the same reason Christ was hated; they hate
his word, his truth, and they hate it not because they see it as good,
but they see it as unjust and unfair. It is unfair that only those who
accept Christ are saved, and that those who don't know Christ or
understand Christ are damned.

John 15:18 "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it
hated you."

John 17:14 "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated
them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the
world."


2Pe 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as
there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in
damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring
upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of
whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.


Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do
to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and
broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which
go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which
leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits...

[Anathema]

Post by Linda Lee
In Matt. 7:12-14

In thread, this appears to be in reply to Nancy.
In context, it appears to be in reply to me.
In content, it is a c&p of something you wrote
in reply to Vince.

<snip of a whole lot of talk with regard to
hatred and condemnation>

I hope that you can see more than only the hatred
and condemnation that you posted with regard unto.

I truly do.

Post by Linda Lee
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits...

Indeed.

[Linda Lee]

Post by Linda Lee
In Matt. 7:12-14, Christ confirmed that the way to the narrow gate
that leads to life is to do unto others as you would have them do unto
you; that this is the fulfillment of "the law and the prophets". This
is popularly known as The Golden Rule.  (Elsewhere in John 3:14-16,
the Messiah says that those who do not believe in him are condemned
already - before they have done or not done anything else).
If that was all it took (following the Golden Rule) to be a Christian,
a "believer", a "follower of Jesus", the world would NOT hate the
Christian Gospel and Christians; believers who preached the Gospel
would be loved instead of being hated - just as the Messiah said they
would be (John 15:18 & 17:14).
So what brings out the hatred toward believers? We've been told many
times here, and it is the fact that the Gospel teaches that anyone not
believing in Christ is condemned to Hell and damnation; that truth is
what brings on the hatred. The truth of salvation is turned around and
anyone proclaiming the Gospel is accused of being evil and condemning
because they believe that Gospel. Good is made into evil and evil is
made into good. Heresies have indeed arisen in which "the way of truth
shall be evil spoken of" (II Pet. 2:1-2).
Christians are hated for the same reason Christ was hated; they hate
his word, his truth, and they hate it not because they see it as good,
but they see it as unjust and unfair. It is unfair that only those who
accept Christ are saved, and that those who don't know Christ or
understand Christ are damned.
John 15:18  "If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it
hated you."
John 17:14  "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated
them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the
world."
2Pe 2:1  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as
there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in
damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring
upon themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of
whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
Mat 7:12  Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do
to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mat 7:13  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and
broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which
Mat 7:14  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which
leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15  Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits...

Regardless that some are offended at his Gospel; the Messiah's Gospel
says that he is the _only way to God._ Those who reject him as the Son
of God and Lamb of God do not have salvation. Those who believe in him
are expected to follow the Golden Rule, i.e. to love one another and
to do unto others as we would have done unto us; that is the extent of
the "law" that Christians are under.

Mat 7:12 Therefore ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER YE WOULD THAT MEN SHOULD DO
TO YOU, DO YE EVEN SO TO THEM: __FOR THIS IS THE LAW AND THE
PROPHETS.__
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and
broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which
go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which
leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


John 14:6, "Jesus saith unto him, _I_ AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE
LIFE: __NO MAN COMETH TO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME."__


II Cor. 4:3, "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are
lost".

[duke]

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.

That's a heretical comment. All 3 persons of the Holy Trinity are equal.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[vince garcia]

Post by duke

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.

That's a heretical comment. All 3 persons of the Holy Trinity are equal.

Now here would be my question: Is she going to heaven by following her
definition of the Godhead here, which you've correctly pointed out is
heresy?

[duke]

Post by vince garcia

Post by duke

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.

That's a heretical comment. All 3 persons of the Holy Trinity are equal.

Now here would be my question: Is she going to heaven by following her
definition of the Godhead here, which you've correctly pointed out is
heresy?

Very unlikely. She may have comprehension problems, as you and I do. God's
infinite mercy and love wouldn't not hold confusion over us.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[Anathema]

Post by duke

Post by vince garcia

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though
He was God He obeyed His Father.

Now here would be my question: Is she going to heaven
by following her definition of the Godhead here, which
you've correctly pointed out is heresy?

Very unlikely.

I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.

As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

Personally, even though I do not fully agree, I see Nancy's
statement above as being more valid, carrying more weight
than many of the other statements I have seen.

Well said Nancy.

Post by duke
She may have comprehension problems, as you and I do.

Or, she may simply be stating it forthrightly in the manner she
believes.

Post by duke
God's infinite mercy and love

Nor would they condemn Nancy for her statement above.

[vince garcia]

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

Post by vince garcia

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though
He was God He obeyed His Father.

Now here would be my question: Is she going to heaven
by following her definition of the Godhead here, which
you've correctly pointed out is heresy?

Very unlikely.

I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.
As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

Really? What about THIS statement from your friend sam taylor?

Post by Anathema
The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was
I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and Over again, I am a
Messianic Jew,

So he denies he serves the same God me, duke, and linda serve, which is
the God of catholic orthodox and protestant churches.

Since HE HIMSELF says he has a different God, at minimum, his god and
ours is not the same, so shouldn't one side or the other be worshipping
a false god, meaning ultimately satan?

Or is sam wrong--he's really worshipping the same God we are?

I don't follow his god. He says he doesn't follow mine.

How can both of us be following the same God if we both deny we are
following the other's?

Can you explain that?

PS--why you posting on the shabbes?

[Anathema]

Post by vince garcia

Post by Anathema

Post by duke
Very unlikely.

I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.
As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

Really? What about THIS statement from your friend sam taylor?

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

"The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was"
"I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and
Over again, I am a Messianic Jew"

End Quotes.
So he denies he serves the same God me, duke, and linda serve,
which is the God of catholic orthodox and protestant churches.
"You worship a different God than I do then."

You deny that I serve the same 'God' as you. Which by
extension, you also include Duke and Linda by your
above statement.

Post by vince garcia
Since HE HIMSELF says he has a different God, at minimum,
his god and ours is not the same, so shouldn't one side or the
other be worshipping a false god, meaning ultimately satan?

Again Vince, you also claim that I serve I different 'God'.
As I said, "Remember, you have made that claim, not I."

Post by vince garcia
Or is sam wrong--he's really worshipping the same God
we are?

Or are you wrong, and I am really serving the same 'God'
you are?

Post by vince garcia
I don't follow his god. He says he doesn't follow mine.

So you are even then.

Post by vince garcia
How can both of us be following the same God if we both
deny we are following the other's?

I understand both of your POV's. Between you and I, you
are the one which has made the denial, not I.

Post by vince garcia
Can you explain that?

Since you deny that I serve the same 'God' you do,
perhaps you should explain it to me.

Post by vince garcia
PS--why you posting on the shabbes?

I have been wondering when someone would bring
that up. Congradulations on being the first.

Mat 12:2 But the Pharisees, when they saw it, said unto him,
Behold, thy disciples do that which it is not lawful to do upon
the sabbath.

[duke]

Post by Anathema

Post by vince garcia

Post by Anathema

Post by duke
Very unlikely.

I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.
As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

Really? What about THIS statement from your friend sam taylor?

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

"The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was"
"I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and
Over again, I am a Messianic Jew"

End Quotes.
So he denies he serves the same God me, duke, and linda serve,
which is the God of catholic orthodox and protestant churches.
"You worship a different God than I do then."

You deny that I serve the same 'God' as you. Which by
extension, you also include Duke and Linda by your
above statement.

Welcome to vince's world.


duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[vince garcia]

Post by Anathema

Post by vince garcia

Post by Anathema

Post by duke
Very unlikely.

I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.
As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

Really? What about THIS statement from your friend sam taylor?

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

"The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was"
"I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and
Over again, I am a Messianic Jew"

End Quotes.
So he denies he serves the same God me, duke, and linda serve,
which is the God of catholic orthodox and protestant churches.
"You worship a different God than I do then."

You deny that I serve the same 'God' as you. Which by
extension, you also include Duke and Linda by your
above statement.

Not really because the same Trinity is worshipped by all of orthodox
christianity as I have said.

Post by Anathema

Post by vince garcia
Since HE HIMSELF says he has a different God, at minimum,
his god and ours is not the same, so shouldn't one side or the
other be worshipping a false god, meaning ultimately satan?

Again Vince, you also claim that I serve I different 'God'.
As I said, "Remember, you have made that claim, not I."

Post by vince garcia
Or is sam wrong--he's really worshipping the same God
we are?

Or are you wrong, and I am really serving the same 'God'
you are?

Post by vince garcia
I don't follow his god. He says he doesn't follow mine.

So you are even then.

Post by vince garcia
How can both of us be following the same God if we both
deny we are following the other's?

I understand both of your POV's. Between you and I, you
are the one which has made the denial, not I.

Post by vince garcia
Can you explain that?

Since you deny that I serve the same 'God' you do,
perhaps you should explain it to me.

Post by vince garcia
PS--why you posting on the shabbes?

I have been wondering when someone would bring
that up. Congradulations on being the first.
Mat 12:2 But the Pharisees, when they saw it, said unto him,
Behold, thy disciples do that which it is not lawful to do upon
the sabbath.

[duke]

Post by vince garcia

Post by Anathema

Post by vince garcia

Post by Anathema

Post by duke
Very unlikely.

I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.
As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

Really? What about THIS statement from your friend sam taylor?

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

"The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was"
"I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and
Over again, I am a Messianic Jew"

End Quotes.
So he denies he serves the same God me, duke, and linda serve,
which is the God of catholic orthodox and protestant churches.
"You worship a different God than I do then."

You deny that I serve the same 'God' as you. Which by
extension, you also include Duke and Linda by your
above statement.

Not really because the same Trinity is worshipped by all of orthodox
christianity as I have said.

How do you define "orthodox Christianity"? That's a legit question.


duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[Anathema]

Post by vince garcia

Post by Anathema

Post by vince garcia
So he denies he serves the same God me, duke, and
linda serve, which is the God of catholic orthodox and
protestant churches.
"You worship a different God than I do then."

You deny that I serve the same 'God' as you. Which by
extension, you also include Duke and Linda by your
above statement.

Not really because the same Trinity is worshipped by all of
orthodox christianity as I have said.

When you say "not really", I am assuming that you are
refering to Duke and Linda. Whom, in your statement
above that, you included with yourself with regard to Sam.

Perhaps you misunderstood the intent of my statement.

Neither Duke of Linda that I recall have ever claimed
that I worship a different 'God'.

The intent, was that since you include Duke and Linda
with regard to Sam, thus also by extension you include
them with regard to me when you state that I worship
a different 'God' than you do.

That being said:

The moral of the story is: That even should I cave in, even
should I forsake my own beliefs to accept yours, it does not
necessitate that you or others shall accept me. More likely,
I feel that I would be mocked for such.

And remember, I once accept and believed in the 'trinity'.

In my further opinion: Look around at each of us here,
take a good close look and remember each of us.

Not with judgment, but in kindness, with love.

For it remains possible that three out of four of us
may perish. Three out of four may not make it.

I do not think that *any* of us can afford ourselves
the luxury of thinking that we got it made.

Thus, we must always be mindful of working out
our own salvation in fear and trembling.

[vince garcia]

Post by Anathema

Post by vince garcia

Post by Anathema

Post by duke
Very unlikely.

I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.
As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

Really? What about THIS statement from your friend sam taylor?

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

"The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was"
"I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and
Over again, I am a Messianic Jew"

End Quotes.
So he denies he serves the same God me, duke, and linda serve,
which is the God of catholic orthodox and protestant churches.
"You worship a different God than I do then."

You deny that I serve the same 'God' as you. Which by
extension, you also include Duke and Linda by your
above statement.

Not really because the same Trinity is worshipped by all of orthodox
christianity as I have said. You, jews and moslems all deny THAT God

[duke]

Post by vince garcia

Post by Anathema

Post by vince garcia

Post by Anathema

Post by duke
Very unlikely.

I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.
As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

Really? What about THIS statement from your friend sam taylor?

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

"The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was"
"I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and
Over again, I am a Messianic Jew"

End Quotes.
So he denies he serves the same God me, duke, and linda serve,
which is the God of catholic orthodox and protestant churches.
"You worship a different God than I do then."

You deny that I serve the same 'God' as you. Which by
extension, you also include Duke and Linda by your
above statement.

Not really because the same Trinity is worshipped by all of orthodox
christianity as I have said. You, jews and moslems all deny THAT God

Jews don't. They worship the same God we do. It's just that we know he's a
trinity, and they don't.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[duke]

Post by vince garcia

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

Post by vince garcia

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though
He was God He obeyed His Father.

Now here would be my question: Is she going to heaven
by following her definition of the Godhead here, which
you've correctly pointed out is heresy?

Very unlikely.

I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.
As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

Really? What about THIS statement from your friend sam taylor?

Post by Anathema
The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was
I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and Over again, I am a
Messianic Jew,

So he denies he serves the same God me, duke, and linda serve, which is
the God of catholic orthodox and protestant churches.

You still haven't understand the message of God. Jews, Catholics, Orthodox, and
protest_ants all have differing views of God's call to his creation. That's why
we have differing opinions. Who's right by your way of thinking?

Post by vince garcia
Since HE HIMSELF says he has a different God, at minimum, his god and
ours is not the same, so shouldn't one side or the other be worshipping
a false god, meaning ultimately satan?

Oh, grow up, vince.

Post by vince garcia
Or is sam wrong--he's really worshipping the same God we are?
I don't follow his god. He says he doesn't follow mine.
How can both of us be following the same God if we both deny we are
following the other's?
Can you explain that?

What will you do to correct yours?

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[duke]

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

Post by vince garcia

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though
He was God He obeyed His Father.

Now here would be my question: Is she going to heaven
by following her definition of the Godhead here, which
you've correctly pointed out is heresy?

Very unlikely.

I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.

Ok, but it's an opinion only. Jesus alone is our judge.

Post by Anathema
As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

The objection is that God is one in 3 equal persons - Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
The operative word is "equal".

Post by Anathema
Personally, even though I do not fully agree, I see Nancy's
statement above as being more valid, carrying more weight
than many of the other statements I have seen.
Well said Nancy.

Post by duke
She may have comprehension problems, as you and I do.

Or, she may simply be stating it forthrightly in the manner she
believes.

Post by duke
God's infinite mercy and love

Nor would they condemn Nancy for her statement above.

Oh, I agree, but again, my opinion.

As far as I'm concerned and so stated, I don't see our loving God condemning any
of us for a line of belief that is not exactly correct as long as we answer
God's call to us.

Rejecting his call is what gets us in deep trouble.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[Rod]

Post by duke

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

Post by vince garcia

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though
He was God He obeyed His Father.

Now here would be my question: Is she going to heaven
by following her definition of the Godhead here, which
you've correctly pointed out is heresy?

Very unlikely.

I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.

Ok, but it's an opinion only. Jesus alone is our judge.

Post by Anathema
As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

The objection is that God is one in 3 equal persons - Father, Son, Holy Spirit.
The operative word is "equal".

Post by Anathema
Personally, even though I do not fully agree, I see Nancy's
statement above as being more valid, carrying more weight
than many of the other statements I have seen.
Well said Nancy.

Post by duke
She may have comprehension problems, as you and I do.

Or, she may simply be stating it forthrightly in the manner she
believes.

Post by duke
God's infinite mercy and love

Nor would they condemn Nancy for her statement above.

Oh, I agree, but again, my opinion.
As far as I'm concerned and so stated, I don't see our loving God condemning any
of us for a line of belief that is not exactly correct as long as we answer
God's call to us.
Rejecting his call is what gets us in deep trouble.

That is fact.


--

[Linda Lee]

Post by duke
As far as I'm concerned and so stated, I don't see our loving God condemning any
of us for a line of belief that is not exactly correct as long as we answer
God's call to us.
Rejecting his call is what gets us in deep trouble.

God was none too pleased with those who hated his sheep, his people,
either, and the Messiah indicated that Christian believers are joined
to his people to make "one fold" with one Shepherd, so I wonder how
Christian-haters are viewed by God? None too kindly, I don't expect.

Matt. 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but
he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

John 17:14 "I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated
them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the
world."

Eph. 5:29-30, "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth
and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of
his body, of his flesh, and of his bones."

[duke]

Post by Linda Lee

Post by duke
As far as I'm concerned and so stated, I don't see our loving God condemning any
of us for a line of belief that is not exactly correct as long as we answer
God's call to us.
Rejecting his call is what gets us in deep trouble.

God was none too pleased with those who hated his sheep, his people,
either, and the Messiah indicated that Christian believers are joined
to his people to make "one fold" with one Shepherd, so I wonder how
Christian-haters are viewed by God? None too kindly, I don't expect.

Yes, but who hates Christians? Satan for one.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[Anathema]

Post by Linda Lee

Post by duke
As far as I'm concerned and so stated, I don't see our
loving God condemning any of us for a line of belief
that is not exactly correct as long as we answer God's
call to us.
Rejecting his call is what gets us in deep trouble.

God was none too pleased with those who hated his sheep,
his people, either

Thus, those who rejected his call.

Post by Linda Lee
and the Messiah indicated that Christian believers are
joined to his people to make "one fold" with one
Shepherd, so I wonder how Christian-haters are
viewed by God? None too kindly, I don't expect.

Understood. But let us also not forget, that until that
day comes, we don't really know who is who.


Mat 7:13 Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the
gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,
and many are they that enter in thereby. 14 For narrow
is the gate, and straitened the way, that leadeth unto life,
and few are they that find it.


Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord,
shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth
the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will
say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy
by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by
thy name do many mighty works? 23 And then will I
profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me,
ye that work iniquity. 24 Every one therefore that
heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be
likened unto a wise man, who built his house upon the
rock:

Few that find it. And as it continues, many will *think*
that they were doing the works of Christ, thus by
extension, they thought they were of the *few*.

We would all do well to remember that.

[Anathema]

Post by duke

Post by Anathema
I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.

Ok, but it's an opinion only. Jesus alone is our judge.

Fair enough. Thus why IMO we can not judge another
in that regard.

Post by duke

Post by Anathema
As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

The objection is that God is one in 3 equal persons - Father,
Son, Holy Spirit. The operative word is "equal".

I understand the objection and have no problem with it.
I am pretty sure you already know my beliefs.

Where I disagree / object, is when some make statements
such as it is "very unlikely" that another shall enter the kingdom.
Or when people judge another as unsaved, condemned, and
many other such type judgments because they do not believe
the same.

Post by duke

Post by Anathema
Nor would they condemn Nancy for her statement above.

Oh, I agree, but again, my opinion.

Fair enough.

Post by duke
As far as I'm concerned and so stated, I don't see our loving
God condemning any of us for a line of belief that is not exactly
correct as long as we answer God's call to us.

Well said. For as I contend, not one of us has it all right.

Post by duke
Rejecting his call is what gets us in deep trouble.

Amen.

[duke]

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

Post by Anathema
I shall *STRONGLY* disagree with both of you.

Ok, but it's an opinion only. Jesus alone is our judge.

Fair enough. Thus why IMO we can not judge another
in that regard.

For further clarification, the bible well directs us to admonish those that we
see in wrongdoing. If we don't, we become guilty of the very act they are
doing. But the judge is the one that applies the penalty. And that we can't
do. For instance, we cna't tell someone they're **going** to hell. Nor can we
form a committee and chastise one for what we see as wrongdoing.

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

Post by Anathema
As you know, my beliefs are different, but I see nothing wrong
with the beliefs that Nancy holds. There is *NO* way that that
which Nancy expresses above could exclude her from the
the kingdom.

The objection is that God is one in 3 equal persons - Father,
Son, Holy Spirit. The operative word is "equal".

I understand the objection and have no problem with it.
I am pretty sure you already know my beliefs.

Actually, I'm not really sure. My latest impression as I've noticed might be
messianic Jew.

Post by Anathema
Where I disagree / object, is when some make statements
such as it is "very unlikely" that another shall enter the kingdom.
Or when people judge another as unsaved, condemned, and
many other such type judgments because they do not believe
the same.

Exactly, we're like 2 peas in a pod there.

Post by Anathema

Post by duke

Post by Anathema
Nor would they condemn Nancy for her statement above.

Oh, I agree, but again, my opinion.

Fair enough.

Post by duke
As far as I'm concerned and so stated, I don't see our loving
God condemning any of us for a line of belief that is not exactly
correct as long as we answer God's call to us.

Well said. For as I contend, not one of us has it all right.

Right, we are called to follow Jesus.

Post by Anathema

Post by duke
Rejecting his call is what gets us in deep trouble.

Amen.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[Nancy]

Post by vince garcia

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.

That's a heretical comment.  All 3 persons of the Holy Trinity are equal.

Now here would be my question: Is she going to heaven by following her
definition of the Godhead here, which you've correctly pointed out is
heresy?

~~~
Nancy
I'm not going to heaven.....Ancient of Days, the Father, and His Son,
Jesus Christ, are coming to earth.
....and if you go to heaven....you're going to be lonely.

9 "I watched till thrones were put in place,
And the Ancient of Days was seated;
His garment was white as snow,
And the hair of His head was like pure wool.
His throne was a fiery flame,
Its wheels a burning fire;
Dan 7:9 (NKJV)

13 "I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
Coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came to the Ancient of Days,
And they brought Him near before Him.
14 Then to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom,
That all peoples, nations, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
Which shall not pass away,
And His kingdom the one
Which shall not be destroyed.
Dan 7:13-14 (NKJV)

[Anathema]

Post by Nancy

Post by vince garcia
Now here would be my question: Is she going to heaven
by following her definition of the Godhead here, which
you've correctly pointed out is heresy?

~~~
Nancy
I'm not going to heaven.....Ancient of Days, the Father,
and His Son, Jesus Christ, are coming to earth.
....and if you go to heaven....you're going to be lonely.
Dan 7:9 (NKJV)
Dan 7:13-14 (NKJV)

<chuckle> Well said.

Indeed you have grown.

[H.E. Eickleberry]

Post by Nancy
Nancy
I'm not going to heaven...

You got that much right.

Post by Nancy
..Ancient of Days, the Father, and His Son,
Jesus Christ, are coming to earth.

Are you daft?

Yes, Jesus and His entourage will be coming to earth during the
Millennium to rule the earth.

Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was
given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped
the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a
thousand years.

But that has NOTHING to do with the believers NOW, who will be staying
behind to mind the store in heaven after the resurrection.

Rev 7:
13 ¶ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these
which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are
they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and
night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among
them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall
the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe
away all tears from their eyes.

Post by Nancy
....and if you go to heaven....you're going to be lonely.

Sounds like JW bullshit to me; I didn't realize that the Armstrongian
cult taught this nonsense, too.

Here's a thought; go find a REAL historical church and learn something
for a change.

Ike

[Nancy]

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy
Nancy
I'm not going to heaven...

You got that much right.

Post by Nancy
..Ancient of Days, the Father, and His Son,
Jesus Christ, are coming to earth.

Are you daft?
Yes, Jesus and His entourage will be coming to earth during the
Millennium to rule the earth.
Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was
given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped
the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a
thousand years.
But that has NOTHING to do with the believers NOW, who will be staying
behind to mind the store in heaven after the resurrection.
13 ¶  And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these
which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are
they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15  Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and
night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among
them.
16  They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall
the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17  For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe
away all tears from their eyes.

~~~
Nancy

21 Have you not known?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
Isaiah 40:21-22 (NKJV)

~~~
Nancy

Where will they lift up their eyes from.....if not earth...

26 Lift up your eyes on high,
And see who has created these things,
Who brings out their host by number;
He calls them all by name,
By the greatness of His might
And the strength of His power;
Not one is missing.
Isaiah 40:26 (NKJV)

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy
....and if you go to heaven....you're going to be lonely.

Sounds like JW bullshit to me; I didn't realize that the Armstrongian
cult taught this nonsense, too.
Here's a thought; go find a REAL historical church and learn something
for a change.

~~~
Nancy

And here one for you.....get back on the spaceship you came in
on.....and leave.

Post by H.E. Eickleberry
Ike
--http://thetriunist.weebly.com/index.htmlhttp://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/The-Triune-Hypothesis/102657...

[H.E. Eickleberry]

Post by Nancy

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy
Nancy
I'm not going to heaven...

You got that much right.

Post by Nancy
..Ancient of Days, the Father, and His Son,
Jesus Christ, are coming to earth.

Are you daft?
Yes, Jesus and His entourage will be coming to earth during the
Millennium to rule the earth.
Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was
given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped
the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a
thousand years.
But that has NOTHING to do with the believers NOW, who will be staying
behind to mind the store in heaven after the resurrection.
13 ¶ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these
which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are
they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and
night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among
them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall
the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe
away all tears from their eyes.

~~~
Nancy
21 Have you not known?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
Isaiah 40:21-22 (NKJV)

This has nothing to do with the subject.

In fact, it says the OPPOSITE, i.e. that God lives ABOVE the earth;
therefore, the saints will join Him, and not the other way around.

Post by Nancy
~~~
Nancy
Where will they lift up their eyes from.....if not earth...
26 Lift up your eyes on high,
And see who has created these things,
Who brings out their host by number;
He calls them all by name,
By the greatness of His might
And the strength of His power;
Not one is missing.
Isaiah 40:26 (NKJV)

Another statement that says the OPPOSITE of what you just said--the
SAINTS, a.k.a. the "host," dwells ABOVE (while the temporal dwell below).

Post by Nancy

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy
....and if you go to heaven....you're going to be lonely.

Sounds like JW bullshit to me; I didn't realize that the Armstrongian
cult taught this nonsense, too.
Here's a thought; go find a REAL historical church and learn something
for a change.

~~~
Nancy
And here one for you.....get back on the spaceship you came in
on.....and leave.

Oh, no. I'm here to defend CHRISTIAN doctrine from CULT doctrines such
as those you spout in ignorance.

John WROTE that the saints dwell in heaven, and that Jesus' and His
entourage, the 144,000, would return to rule.

You, just like the JW cultists, turn the story around backwards.

Ike

[Nancy]

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy
Nancy
I'm not going to heaven...

You got that much right.

Post by Nancy
..Ancient of Days, the Father, and His Son,
Jesus Christ, are coming to earth.

Are you daft?
Yes, Jesus and His entourage will be coming to earth during the
Millennium to rule the earth.
Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was
given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped
the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a
thousand years.
But that has NOTHING to do with the believers NOW, who will be staying
behind to mind the store in heaven after the resurrection.
13 ¶  And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these
which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14  And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are
they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15  Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and
night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among
them.
16  They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall
the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17  For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe
away all tears from their eyes.

~~~
Nancy
21 Have you not known?
  Have you not heard?
  Has it not been told you from the beginning?
  Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
  22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
  And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
  Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
  And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
Isaiah 40:21-22 (NKJV)

This has nothing to do with the subject.

~~~
Nancy

Yes, it does, where do you think New Jerusalem will be?

12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God,
and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My
God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes
down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
Rev 3:11-12 (NKJV)

~~~
Nancy
God is coming to man.....

2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of
heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I
heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God
is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His
people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
Rev 21:2-3 (NKJV)
This goes with

28 The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when
My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore."
Ezek 37:28 (NKJV)

and

7 And He said to me, "Son of man, this is the place of My throne and
the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of
the children of Israel forever. No more shall the house of Israel
defile My holy name, they nor their kings, by their harlotry or with
the carcasses of their kings on their high places.
Ezek 43:7 (NKJV)

God will come to the New Jerusalem

10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain,
and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of
heaven from God,
Rev 21:10 (NKJV)
~~~

Post by H.E. Eickleberry
In fact, it says the OPPOSITE, i.e. that God lives ABOVE the earth;
therefore, the saints will join Him, and not the other way around.

~~~
Nancy
Yeah, right....that's is NOT what His word says.
~~~

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy
~~~
Nancy
Where will they lift up their eyes from.....if not earth...
26 Lift up your eyes on high,
  And see who has created these things,
  Who brings out their host by number;
  He calls them all by name,
  By the greatness of His might
  And the strength of His power;
  Not one is missing.
Isaiah 40:26 (NKJV)

Another statement that says the OPPOSITE of what you just said--the
SAINTS, a.k.a. the "host," dwells ABOVE (while the temporal dwell below).

~~~
Nancy

Again...just where do you think the New Jerusalem will be...
~~~

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy
....and if you go to heaven....you're going to be lonely.

Sounds like JW bullshit to me; I didn't realize that the Armstrongian
cult taught this nonsense, too.
Here's a thought; go find a REAL historical church and learn something
for a change.

~~~
Nancy
And here one for you.....get back on the spaceship you came in
on.....and leave.

Oh, no. I'm here to defend CHRISTIAN doctrine from CULT doctrines such
as those you spout in ignorance.
John WROTE that the saints dwell in heaven, and that Jesus' and His
entourage, the 144,000, would return to rule.
You, just like the JW cultists, turn the story around backwards.

~~~
Nancy

You're spaceship awaits you...
~~~

Post by H.E. Eickleberry
Ike
--http://thetriunist.weebly.com/index.htmlhttp://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/The-Triune-Hypothesis/102657...- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[H.E. Eickleberry]

Post by Nancy

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy
Nancy
I'm not going to heaven...

You got that much right.

Post by Nancy
..Ancient of Days, the Father, and His Son,
Jesus Christ, are coming to earth.

Are you daft?
Yes, Jesus and His entourage will be coming to earth during the
Millennium to rule the earth.
Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was
given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the
witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped
the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their
foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a
thousand years.
But that has NOTHING to do with the believers NOW, who will be staying
behind to mind the store in heaven after the resurrection.
13 ¶ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these
which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are
they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and
night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among
them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall
the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe
away all tears from their eyes.

~~~
Nancy
21 Have you not known?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood from the foundations of the earth?
22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
Isaiah 40:21-22 (NKJV)

This has nothing to do with the subject.

~~~
Nancy
Yes, it does, where do you think New Jerusalem will be?

Where it has always been--in eternity, i.e. "heaven."

Ga 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Post by Nancy
12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God,
and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My
God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes
down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
Rev 3:11-12 (NKJV)

New Jerusalem isn't a "place" per se; it's a state of being for that
which comes into existence after the end of all things, but has been
with God since before the beginning of all things, the host of heaven.

Post by Nancy
~~~
Nancy
God is coming to man.....
2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of
heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I
heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God
is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His
people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
Rev 21:2-3 (NKJV)

Not before the believers GO TO GOD!

Rev 7:
13 ¶ And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these
which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are
they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes,
and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and
night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among
them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall
the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them,
and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe
away all tears from their eyes.

Post by Nancy
This goes with
28 The nations also will know that I, the Lord, sanctify Israel, when
My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore."
Ezek 37:28 (NKJV)

This is about the establishment of Jesus as the Temple on Mount Zion
during the Millennium. It has nothing to do with the metphorical "New
Jerusalem," which is a composite figure for whole "Israel."

Post by Nancy
and
7 And He said to me, "Son of man, this is the place of My throne and
the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of
the children of Israel forever. No more shall the house of Israel
defile My holy name, they nor their kings, by their harlotry or with
the carcasses of their kings on their high places.
Ezek 43:7 (NKJV)

Again, this is a reference to the "Holy Mountain," Jesus Christ, sitting
on the holy mountain, Zion, during the Millennium.

It has little to nothing to do with what comes next, i.e. the folding of
the universe and the establishment of the "New Jerusalem," which isn't a
"place," but the collective body of believers.

Post by Nancy
God will come to the New Jerusalem
10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain,
and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of
heaven from God,
Rev 21:10 (NKJV)

Everything in the last two chapters of Revelation is a METAPHOR for the
collective body of believers in three parts, wherein the believers
themselves are the "holy city" and the Lamb is the "temple" of it.

It's NOT literal in the temporal sense.

Post by Nancy
~~~

Post by H.E. Eickleberry
In fact, it says the OPPOSITE, i.e. that God lives ABOVE the earth;
therefore, the saints will join Him, and not the other way around.

~~~
Nancy
Yeah, right....that's is NOT what His word says.

Yes, it is.

You just have no idea what the Word actually says to begin with, not
being able to separate the literal from the figurative.

Post by Nancy
~~~

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy
~~~
Nancy
Where will they lift up their eyes from.....if not earth...
26 Lift up your eyes on high,
And see who has created these things,
Who brings out their host by number;
He calls them all by name,
By the greatness of His might
And the strength of His power;
Not one is missing.
Isaiah 40:26 (NKJV)

Another statement that says the OPPOSITE of what you just said--the
SAINTS, a.k.a. the "host," dwells ABOVE (while the temporal dwell below).

~~~
Nancy
Again...just where do you think the New Jerusalem will be...

It's not ANYWHERE.

It's a METAPHOR for the collective body of believers.

John sees the "New Jerusalem," a.k.a. the host of heaven, come into
existence after the end of all things; but Paul says that "Jerusalem
which is above," which is the "mother of us all," is ALREADY in place.

It's not a "thing;" it's a state of existence.

Post by Nancy
~~~

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy

Post by H.E. Eickleberry

Post by Nancy
....and if you go to heaven....you're going to be lonely.

Sounds like JW bullshit to me; I didn't realize that the Armstrongian
cult taught this nonsense, too.
Here's a thought; go find a REAL historical church and learn something
for a change.

~~~
Nancy
And here one for you.....get back on the spaceship you came in
on.....and leave.

Oh, no. I'm here to defend CHRISTIAN doctrine from CULT doctrines such
as those you spout in ignorance.
John WROTE that the saints dwell in heaven, and that Jesus' and His
entourage, the 144,000, would return to rule.
You, just like the JW cultists, turn the story around backwards.

~~~
Nancy
You're spaceship awaits you...

You have no idea what awaits you, cultist.

Ike

[Nancy]

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.

That's a heretical comment.  All 3 persons of the Holy Trinity are equal.

~~~
Nancy

No, it's not....there is ONE God, the Ancient of Days.....and Mary is
not a God either, I don't care what your pope says.

duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[duke]

Post by Nancy

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.

That's a heretical comment.  All 3 persons of the Holy Trinity are equal.

~~~
Nancy
No, it's not....there is ONE God, the Ancient of Days.....and Mary is
not a God either, I don't care what your pope says.

Congratulations. The Roman Catholic Church has forever more denied the divinity
of Momma Mary. And forever will.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[Nancy]

Post by Nancy

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.

That's a heretical comment.  All 3 persons of the Holy Trinity are equal.

~~~
Nancy
No, it's not....there is ONE God, the Ancient of Days.....and Mary is
not a God either, I don't care what your pope says.

Congratulations.  The Roman Catholic Church has forever more denied the divinity
of Momma Mary.  And forever will.

~~~
Nancy

Good to hear this....8-) You're the only catholic I know that talks
about his religion...

but wait a minute.....when my son went to Rome he said Mary was right
up there with Jesus in the Godship...
that the pope next to this pope put her there, no?

duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[duke]

Post by Nancy

Post by Nancy

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.

That's a heretical comment.  All 3 persons of the Holy Trinity are equal.

~~~
Nancy
No, it's not....there is ONE God, the Ancient of Days.....and Mary is
not a God either, I don't care what your pope says.

Congratulations.  The Roman Catholic Church has forever more denied the divinity
of Momma Mary.  And forever will.

Good to hear this....8-) You're the only catholic I know that talks
about his religion...

With all the confusion about us, somebody must.

Post by Nancy
but wait a minute.....when my son went to Rome he said Mary was right
up there with Jesus in the Godship...
that the pope next to this pope put her there, no?

No.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[Nancy]

Post by duke

Post by Nancy

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.

That's a heretical comment.  All 3 persons of the Holy Trinity are equal.

~~~
Nancy
No, it's not....there is ONE God, the Ancient of Days.....and Mary is
not a God either, I don't care what your pope says.

Congratulations.  The Roman Catholic Church has forever more denied the divinity
of Momma Mary.  And forever will.

Good to hear this....8-)  You're the only catholic I know that talks
about his religion...

With all the confusion about us, somebody must.

but wait a minute.....when my son went to Rome he said Mary was right
up there with Jesus in the Godship...
that the pope next to this pope put her there, no?

No.

~~~
Nancy

So, catholic's don't believe Mary was conceived in her mother's womb,
the same way Christ was....by the Holy Spirit?

Post by duke
duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[duke]

Post by Nancy

Post by duke

Post by Nancy

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.

That's a heretical comment.  All 3 persons of the Holy Trinity are equal.

~~~
Nancy
No, it's not....there is ONE God, the Ancient of Days.....and Mary is
not a God either, I don't care what your pope says.

Congratulations.  The Roman Catholic Church has forever more denied the divinity
of Momma Mary.  And forever will.

Good to hear this....8-)  You're the only catholic I know that talks
about his religion...

With all the confusion about us, somebody must.

but wait a minute.....when my son went to Rome he said Mary was right
up there with Jesus in the Godship...
that the pope next to this pope put her there, no?

No.

Nancy
So, catholic's don't believe Mary was conceived in her mother's womb,
the same way Christ was....by the Holy Spirit?

?? Jesus alone is God incarnate. Mary is fully the product of mom and pop and
"a fling in the hay."

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[Nancy]

Post by Nancy

Post by duke

Post by Nancy

Post by Nancy
Jesus Christ was God, under His Father, even though He was God He
obeyed His Father. He knew what His true followers would have to go
through.

That's a heretical comment.  All 3 persons of the Holy Trinity are equal.

~~~
Nancy
No, it's not....there is ONE God, the Ancient of Days.....and Mary is
not a God either, I don't care what your pope says.

Congratulations.  The Roman Catholic Church has forever more denied the divinity
of Momma Mary.  And forever will.

Good to hear this....8-)  You're the only catholic I know that talks
about his religion...

With all the confusion about us, somebody must.

but wait a minute.....when my son went to Rome he said Mary was right
up there with Jesus in the Godship...
that the pope next to this pope put her there, no?

No.

Nancy
So, catholic's don't believe Mary was conceived in her mother's womb,
the same way Christ was....by the Holy Spirit?

??  Jesus alone is God incarnate.  Mary is fully the product of mom and pop and
"a fling in the hay."

~~~
Nancy
I apologize.....I had been told that's what catholics believed.
~~~

duke, American - American
*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

[Anathema]

Post by Nancy
See, it's so simple even someone like me can
understand.....8-)

<smile>

[Anathema]

I've seen you say you recently started studying

Hmmm. I did not see Nancy state as much.

and that you're excited about it.

Indeed Nancy is, it is a love that I know well.

[Nancy]

I've seen you say you recently started studying

Hmmm.  I did not see Nancy state as much.

and that you're excited about it.

Indeed Nancy is, it is a love that I know well.

~~~
Nancy

8-)

[Order Earthly]

Post by Linda Lee
But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive

This is the verdict: Light has come into the
world, but men loved darkness instead of
light because their deeds were evil. Everyone
who does evil hates the light, and will not
come into the light for fear that his deeds
will be exposed. But whoever lives by the
truth comes into the light, so that it may be
seen plainly that what he has done has been
done through God."
(John 3:19-21 NIV)

[Anathema]

Post by Order Earthly
--
If anyone speaks, he should do it as one
speaking the very words of God. If anyone
serves, he should do it with the strength God
provides, so that in all things God may be
praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the
glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
(1Pe 4:11)

Amen and Amen.

[Linda Lee]

Post by Order Earthly

Post by Linda Lee
But what is it that
Christ was saying would make him offensive

This is the verdict: Light has come into the
world, but men loved darkness instead of
light because their deeds were evil. Everyone
who does evil hates the light, and will not
come into the light for fear that his deeds
will be exposed. But whoever lives by the
truth comes into the light, so that it may be
seen plainly that what he has done has been
done through God."
(John 3:19-21 NIV)
--
If anyone speaks, he should do it as one
speaking the very words of God. If anyone
serves, he should do it with the strength God
provides, so that in all things God may be
praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the
glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
  (1Pe 4:11)

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them
which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ,
who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
2Co 4:5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and
ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
2Co 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness,
hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the
glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.

[Sam Taylor]

Linda's evening Prayer,
dear lord smite mine enemies , even harder
than I have.
I have lied about what they Believe, and Falsely accused them, and condemned
them for your Namesake.
How dare they treat Me, like I treat Them, Let Me
Dine in acceptence before them that are ignorant, Unwise,
and Stupid.
so they Might see I am your Special christian, and you are my poopsie
Woopsie Daddy.
Let them be accursed acording to My wise Judgements,
and Vinces Judgements, for thou has set us forth to
charictor assasinate all those We deem unworthy of You.
If they do let not their relationship with You, be as
Super, or Exhaulted as Mine and Vinces.
for those Cheif seats in your Synagog belong to us, that way We may Guide,
You into all Wisdom When You do actually Exist, as Vince says you and Jesus
and the Holy Ghost are Eternaly Prexistant, and vince knows best,
and I back You , by backing Him up.
A new Mercedes would be nice.
I love you My poopsie Woopsie
injesusnameiask
Amen
then back to Her Rightious work, on the newsgroups

[Rod]

Post by Sam Taylor
Linda's evening Prayer,
dear lord smite mine enemies , even harder
than I have.
I have lied about what they Believe, and Falsely accused them, and condemned
them for your Namesake.
How dare they treat Me, like I treat Them, Let Me
Dine in acceptence before them that are ignorant, Unwise,
and Stupid.
so they Might see I am your Special christian, and you are my poopsie
Woopsie Daddy.
Let them be accursed acording to My wise Judgements,
and Vinces Judgements, for thou has set us forth to
charictor assasinate all those We deem unworthy of You.
If they do let not their relationship with You, be as
Super, or Exhaulted as Mine and Vinces.
for those Cheif seats in your Synagog belong to us, that way We may Guide,
You into all Wisdom When You do actually Exist, as Vince says you and Jesus
and the Holy Ghost are Eternaly Prexistant, and vince knows best,
and I back You , by backing Him up.
A new Mercedes would be nice.
I love you My poopsie Woopsie
injesusnameiask
Amen
then back to Her Rightious work, on the newsgroups

he he he...

--

[j***@satx.rr.com]

Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.

[Anathema]

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.

Indeed.

[Rod]

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.

Feeling a little dramatic..?

--

[Linda Lee]

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
               that light is come into the world,
               and men loved darkness rather than light,
               because their deeds were evil.

Good answer, and of course often the underlying cause of people
finding the Messiah's Gospel offensive is that they are at heart evil
people, and their problem is enmity with God. "if our gospel be hid,
it is hid to them that are lost" (II Cor.4:3). (But sometimes those
who find the Gospel offensive are newcomers, and have just begun
looking into the Scriptures, and no one knows how they will
persevere.)

However, in this case, I was really looking for the specific reasons
people say they reject the Gospel, other than the ones I listed. Some
say they 'accept Christ', but reject the traditional understanding of
the Gospel of Christ, so I was wondering what other objections they
had to it. Specifically, what is the problem? Is it simply that they
can't accept that the omnipotent God might incarnate as the Christ?
Is it that they don't like the idea of the forgiveness of sins and
find it to be unjust?

Or are there other reasons the Gospel is rejected?

Is it perceived as unfair and even threatening that the Messiah said
few would find the way of life and be saved and many would suffer
destruction (Matt. 7:13-14)?

What _exactly_ makes the Gospel of Christ offensive to them? There
must be more reasons than I have listed here.

[vince garcia]

Post by Linda Lee

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.

Good answer, and of course often the underlying cause of people
finding the Messiah's Gospel offensive is that they are at heart evil
people, and their problem is enmity with God. "if our gospel be hid,
it is hid to them that are lost" (II Cor.4:3). (But sometimes those
who find the Gospel offensive are newcomers, and have just begun
looking into the Scriptures, and no one knows how they will
persevere.)
However, in this case, I was really looking for the specific reasons
people say they reject the Gospel, other than the ones I listed. Some
say they 'accept Christ', but reject the traditional understanding of
the Gospel of Christ, so I was wondering what other objections they
had to it. Specifically, what is the problem? Is it simply that they
can't accept that the omnipotent God might incarnate as the Christ?
Is it that they don't like the idea of the forgiveness of sins and
find it to be unjust?
Or are there other reasons the Gospel is rejected?
Is it perceived as unfair and even threatening that the Messiah said
few would find the way of life and be saved and many would suffer
destruction (Matt. 7:13-14)?
What _exactly_ makes the Gospel of Christ offensive to them? There
must be more reasons than I have listed here.

From what I've seen, there are at least two reasons:

one group wants to be free to live in sin so they reject.

Another group "accepts" it but refuses to rely on Christ's
righteousness, but ultimately insists on relying on their own
righteousness to get in.

The latter may be actually walking in greater blindness than the former

[Linda Lee]

Post by vince garcia

Post by Linda Lee

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
               that light is come into the world,
               and men loved darkness rather than light,
               because their deeds were evil.

Good answer, and of course often the underlying cause of people
finding the Messiah's Gospel offensive is that they are at heart evil
people, and their problem is enmity with God. "if our gospel be hid,
it is hid to them that are lost" (II Cor.4:3).  (But sometimes those
who find the Gospel offensive are newcomers, and have just begun
looking into the Scriptures, and no one knows how they will
persevere.)
However, in this case, I was really looking for the specific reasons
people say they reject the Gospel, other than the ones I listed. Some
say they 'accept Christ', but reject the traditional understanding of
the Gospel of Christ, so I was wondering what other objections they
had to it. Specifically, what is the problem?  Is it simply that they
can't accept that the omnipotent God might incarnate as the Christ?
Is it that they don't like the idea of the forgiveness of sins and
find it to be unjust?
Or are there other reasons the Gospel is rejected?
Is it perceived as unfair and even threatening that the Messiah said
few would find the way of life and be saved and many would suffer
destruction (Matt. 7:13-14)?
What _exactly_ makes the Gospel of Christ offensive to them? There
must be more reasons than I have listed here.

one group wants to be free to live in sin so they reject.
Another group "accepts" it but refuses to rely on Christ's
righteousness, but ultimately insists on relying on their own
righteousness to get in.
The latter may be actually walking in greater blindness than the former

But when you question those who claim to 'accept Christ' and who say
he taught to follow the law of Moses, usually you find out they don't
believe in hell, don't want heaven, don't believe in miracles, or much
of anything that is in the Scriptures. Instead, they use pure
lipservice to the word "law" to a pretense of superiority over
Christians.

Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do
to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and
broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which
go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which
leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.

Here the Messiah very explicitly said what is the straight gate
leading to life, and how believers are to be righteous according to
the law and the prophets; it is what we call the Golden Rule (Matt.
7:12-14).

These hateful 'wolves in sheep's clothing' that gather here, the
enemies of Christianity, aren't the type to "do unto others" as they
would have done to themselves, but they will pretend they accept the
law and are superior to Christians.

[vince garcia]

Post by Linda Lee

Post by vince garcia

Post by Linda Lee

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
that light is come into the world,
and men loved darkness rather than light,
because their deeds were evil.

Good answer, and of course often the underlying cause of people
finding the Messiah's Gospel offensive is that they are at heart evil
people, and their problem is enmity with God. "if our gospel be hid,
it is hid to them that are lost" (II Cor.4:3). (But sometimes those
who find the Gospel offensive are newcomers, and have just begun
looking into the Scriptures, and no one knows how they will
persevere.)
However, in this case, I was really looking for the specific reasons
people say they reject the Gospel, other than the ones I listed. Some
say they 'accept Christ', but reject the traditional understanding of
the Gospel of Christ, so I was wondering what other objections they
had to it. Specifically, what is the problem? Is it simply that they
can't accept that the omnipotent God might incarnate as the Christ?
Is it that they don't like the idea of the forgiveness of sins and
find it to be unjust?
Or are there other reasons the Gospel is rejected?
Is it perceived as unfair and even threatening that the Messiah said
few would find the way of life and be saved and many would suffer
destruction (Matt. 7:13-14)?
What _exactly_ makes the Gospel of Christ offensive to them? There
must be more reasons than I have listed here.

one group wants to be free to live in sin so they reject.
Another group "accepts" it but refuses to rely on Christ's
righteousness, but ultimately insists on relying on their own
righteousness to get in.
The latter may be actually walking in greater blindness than the former

But when you question those who claim to 'accept Christ' and who say
he taught to follow the law of Moses, usually you find out they don't
believe in hell, don't want heaven, don't believe in miracles, or much
of anything that is in the Scriptures. Instead, they use pure
lipservice to the word "law" to a pretense of superiority over
Christians.

Well, what does that say, other than that they are totally blinded by
satan?

This might be one reason Paul in 2 cor 11 says satan's false teachers
masquerade as "ministers of righteousness,"--boasting about their
jewishness! And even Paul sarcastically went on to boast about HIS
jewishness since these peple were tricking people by using their
background as JEWS IN THE LAW to show their superiority and
qualifications as teachers of so-called truth, to draw followers to
their false christ


Sound like some people you know?

So the tares--the COUNTERFEITS--are not antinomains teaching sin and
licentiousness, but tares teaching keep the commandments and the Law of
Judaism!

take a look at this photo. Know what the problem is?

Loading Image...

They look REAL. Yet they have NO VALUE. They are counterfeits despite
looking like something real.

Post by Linda Lee
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do
to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and
broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which
leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Here the Messiah very explicitly said what is the straight gate
leading to life, and how believers are to be righteous according to
the law and the prophets; it is what we call the Golden Rule (Matt.
7:12-14).
These hateful 'wolves in sheep's clothing' that gather here, the
enemies of Christianity, aren't the type to "do unto others" as they
would have done to themselves, but they will pretend they accept the
law and are superior to Christians.

[Linda Lee]

Post by vince garcia

Post by Linda Lee

Post by vince garcia

Post by Linda Lee

Post by j***@satx.rr.com
Joh 3:19 -And this is the condemnation,
               that light is come into the world,
               and men loved darkness rather than light,
               because their deeds were evil.

Good answer, and of course often the underlying cause of people
finding the Messiah's Gospel offensive is that they are at heart evil
people, and their problem is enmity with God. "if our gospel be hid,
it is hid to them that are lost" (II Cor.4:3).  (But sometimes those
who find the Gospel offensive are newcomers, and have just begun
looking into the Scriptures, and no one knows how they will
persevere.)
However, in this case, I was really looking for the specific reasons
people say they reject the Gospel, other than the ones I listed. Some
say they 'accept Christ', but reject the traditional understanding of
the Gospel of Christ, so I was wondering what other objections they
had to it. Specifically, what is the problem?  Is it simply that they
can't accept that the omnipotent God might incarnate as the Christ?
Is it that they don't like the idea of the forgiveness of sins and
find it to be unjust?
Or are there other reasons the Gospel is rejected?
Is it perceived as unfair and even threatening that the Messiah said
few would find the way of life and be saved and many would suffer
destruction (Matt. 7:13-14)?
What _exactly_ makes the Gospel of Christ offensive to them? There
must be more reasons than I have listed here.

one group wants to be free to live in sin so they reject.
Another group "accepts" it but refuses to rely on Christ's
righteousness, but ultimately insists on relying on their own
righteousness to get in.
The latter may be actually walking in greater blindness than the former

But when you question those who claim to 'accept Christ' and who say
he taught to follow the law of Moses, usually you find out they don't
believe in hell, don't want heaven, don't believe in miracles, or much
of anything that is in the Scriptures. Instead, they use pure
lipservice to the word "law" to a pretense of superiority over
Christians.

Well, what does that say, other than that they are totally blinded by
satan?
This might be one reason Paul in 2 cor 11 says satan's false teachers
masquerade as "ministers of righteousness,"

Sure it is; and that also applies to those who claim to 'accept
Christ' but who reject his Gospel; they're wolves among the sheep;
pretenders whose goal is to pervert the Gospel and condemn believers.

Note this, which many take to be talking about disobeying any the
commandments:

Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall BREAK one of these least
commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in
the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same
shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall
exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no
case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

First, the Messiah is the only one who has ever "fulfilled every jot
and tittle of the law, i. e. he is the ONLY ONE who has ever _done and
taught all the commandments,_ and therefore it is ONLY CHRIST who is
"called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matt. 5:19).

But DOES the word "BREAK" here in Matt 5:19 MEAN DISOBEY???
("Whosoever therefore shall BREAK one of these least commandment, and
shall teach men so".) The word "BREAK" there MEANS "LOOSEN", NOT
DISOBEY.

It refers to the practice of the unrighteous Pharisees (whom he
mentions in the next verse) who 'loosened the law of Moses',
'allowing' certain people to disobey it with the blessing of the
priests and thereby teaching them to disobey even the 10 commandments
instruction to honor their father and mother (see below).

The Pharisaic priests promoted not taking care of one's mother and
father, so that they could receive the money that would have been used
for the parents themselves, for which they bestowed them with a
blessing, thereby making the temple of the LORD "a den of
thieves" (Matt. 21:13). This is the same thing the RCC later did,
forgiving sins according to how much money they were paid in what they
called "indulgences" (they indulged the Christian's commission of sin
for money), which brought about the Protestant reformation.

Mat 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of
Jerusalem, saying,
Mat 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders?
for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Mat 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also
transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother:
and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Mat 15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother,
It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
Mat 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free.
Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your
tradition. .


The Messiah SAID what believers had to do to escape the wide gate of
destruction and follow the narrow path that leads to life; "all things
whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them:
for this is the law and the prophets" (Matt. 7:12). Do good and do
unto others as you would have them do unto you. The Golden Rule.

And yes, I'm aware that he doesn't HERE in Matthew 7 say 'believers';
he doesn't here say anyone's sins would be forgiven EITHER, yet
elsewhere he taught those who did not believe in him were already
condemned - John 3:14-18, and that those who didn't believe in him
would die in their sins - John 8:21-24, and that the sins of believers
are forgiven.)

Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do
to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and
broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which
go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which
leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.

Post by vince garcia
--boasting about their
jewishness! And even Paul sarcastically went on to boast about HIS
jewishness since these people were tricking people by using their
background as JEWS IN THE LAW to show their superiority and
qualifications as teachers of so-called truth, to draw followers to
their false christ
Sound like some people you know?

Some things never change; the wiles of the devil are tried and proven
often effective; that's why books like C.S. Lewis' 'The Screwtape
Letters' (about an older demon instructing a younger demon on how to
corrupt believers) can be written; there's a formula for evil that
evil people inherently know and that any human can recognize as well.
And we see it here every day in this ng and even in this thread.

Post by vince garcia
So the tares--the COUNTERFEITS--are not antinomains teaching sin and
licentiousness, but tares teaching keep the commandments and the Law of
Judaism!

Yet just like the Pharisees, they loosen the law for their own
purposes, and forgive their own sins while condemning others, claiming
to seek for peace while they wreak havoc and cause dissension.

Post by vince garcia
take a look at this photo. Know what the problem is?
http://www.frontiernet.net/~hcohen/1UNCL26351A.jpg
They look REAL. Yet they have NO VALUE. They are counterfeits despite
looking like something real.

And looking as valuable as the real thing. but when you go to use
them, you're condemned (i.e. arrested). Good analogy, Vince!

Post by vince garcia

Post by Linda Lee
Mat 7:12  Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do
to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Mat 7:13  Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and
broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which
Mat 7:14  Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which
leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15  Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16  Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Here the Messiah very explicitly said what is the straight gate
leading to life, and how believers are to be righteous according to
the law and the prophets; it is what we call the Golden Rule (Matt.
7:12-14).
These hateful 'wolves in sheep's clothing' that gather here, the
enemies of Christianity, aren't the type to "do unto others" as they
would have done to themselves, but they will pretend they accept the
law and are superior to Christians.

[vince garcia]

screw you, you piece of dung.

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,

Absolutely I believe Jesus was pre-existent with the Father!

ANY real Christian believes that.

But not Sam Taylor…


To him, that's "HORSE SHIT"

Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D"…

Sam Taylor has explicitly denied he is a Chroistian or follows the

The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was
Crucified, and accended unto his Father on High
giving gifts to men.
yours is the G-ds of Babylon, Egypt,of Medo persia, Greece, and Rome.
mine is the G-D of avraham Yisaak, and Yacob,
make Sure your g-ds are not in the bathroom,
when you decide you want to attack Me next.
"but to us their is But One G-D the father, and one
lord Jesus christ, Whom I call yashua the Messiah.
who himself prayed that Men may know THOU ALONE
art the Most High speaking of YHWH.
and the covenate given at Sinia, that YHWH alone would Be My G-D, I keep his
precepts and statutes, and Holy Days.
I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and Over again, I am a
Messianic Jew,
Xtians believe in the 3 G-ds of Big Daddy, JC, and the Spook

An example of Sam Taylor's TOTAL IGNORANCE OF HISTORY can be seen with
this stupid statement about the Septuagint NOT even being conceived in
the time of Mary.

Vince
how did [Mary] do that since the First Septuagent
had not yet been concieved of, and or produced?
mybe She was physic or Somethin?
yup that are it.....She waz Physic!....GOLLY GEEWILIKERS
Sam

It was written 100-300 years before Christ. Sam Taylor posts that it
wasn't yet written when Mary was told she would give birth to Christ


Sam Taylor claims Jesus was probably married BECAUSE HE HAD A BEARD!!!.

With the fact the messiah had a beard, that probubly means he was
married.

He has an aberrant view of the way Jews view the Law.

Jews are REQUIRED THE ! COMMANDMENTS
(the 10 Commandments)
and Teaching their Children of The Holy Days of YHWH
and HIS STATUTES!
( the Number is 57 not 613)
this is how Orthadox and Conservative, and Reform
can be all Considered JEWS iregardless of KOSHER
and other ways of observance.
To a Jew the Laws of Moses are seperated from the "LAW OF YHWH You
call the 10 Comandments
To us these [the 10] are the Basis of Our morality.
the others are Rules, not Commandments

This was all refuted by true Jew Rob Strom (whom sam called a
"Xtian"!*), who said: "Sam's view doesn't map to either traditional
or Reform Judaism."

* When Rob agrees with Your Doctrine of G-D he is INDEED a Xtian! and
NOT A JEW.

He has shown either complete ignorance of Christian history, or else is
a bold faced liar regarding it.

there is no reference to Communion being offered other than Passover
until the 6th Century...
the Communion offering was not a weekly "Sunday"
observation in Catholosism until the 6th century, before it was done Yearly
on a Memorial service in Your Easter Pagan Holiday.

Refuted by the first century didache, which even talks about taking
communion every sunday, and gives prayers for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The Didascalia in the 3rd century mentioned it:

"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there
be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation
[communion], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our
Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week
he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up
to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with
the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

It was WEEKLY OR DAILY for MANY, MANY years, including the years of the
sources I cited which mention it being taken EVERY SUNDAY! Pope Fabian
in the 200s even made it mandatory to receive communion AT LEAST--get
that, AT LEAST--THREE times a year...not 'ONCE a year and NO MORE' as
you are trying to claim. Even Augustine wrote about daily communion
being up to the individual.

He has shown complete ignorance regarding the greek language and the

"Jesus means of Zeus or Nike"

Refuted by citing an article on the actual greek, comparing and showing
photos of ancient greek inscriptions proving this claim to be utterly
false

Jews do NOT believe Man has a Soul!
You as a Xtian believe You have an ImortalSoul, and we believe We ARE a
mortal Soul We believe We Jews do Die, You believe You shed Your body
to life Soul Life forever either singing, or Screaming

Refuted by what REAL Jews say about the afterlife, compared to false
"jew," Sam taylor, who says they believe you're dead like a dog once
you're dead


Chabod.org: The soul is liberated from the body and returns closer to
her source than ever before.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2970/jewish/Do-Jews-Believe-in-an-Afterlife.htm

Answers.com: After a Jew dies his soul goes to heaven where it is judged
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Jews_believe_in_an_afterlife#ixzz18hiVUYyy

Ask Rabbi Simmons: When a person dies and goes to heaven, the judgment
is not arbitrary and externally imposed.
http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_afterlife.htm

Judaism 101: Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the
end of human existence. There is clear evidence in the Torah of belief
in
existence after death.
http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

Ask Moses: Simply put, yes--but what we believe in might better be
called "life after life." According to Jewish belief, it is only the
body that dies, while the soul lives on into eternity.
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/614%2C223/Do-Jews-believe-in-an-after-life.html

wiki answers: According to Maimonides, an afterlife continues for the
soul of every human being, a soul now separated from the body in which
it was "housed" during its earthly existence.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_type_of_afterlife_do_Jewish_people_believe_in#ixzz18hkPK4eT

juicy jews: The short answer is YES, we do!
http://juicyjews.com/jewish-religious-questions/do-jews-believe-in-an-afterlife-or-heaven/

Jewish home lifecare: The "classic" Jewish belief is that when we die,
only the body dies, and the soul lives forever with God.
http://www.jewishhome.org/life-with-us/religious-and-spiritual-life-at-jewish-home/jewish-beliefs-and-traditions/death-and-afterlife


MORE SAM TAYLOR LIES...


You claimed that Nazi Skinheads broke into your shop in San Francisco
and beat you and your Jewish customers. (a lie)

You claimed that you filed and won a lawsuit against the American Nazi
Party (a lie quickly revealed by checking the record of lawsuits against
the ANP, which showed NO RECORD of one by a Sam Taylor)


He has been repeatedly exposed as a liar


So when Sam Taylor starts giving a lesson on the Greek langauge and how
that 'proves' essentials of the Christian faith are WRONG...I trust the
readers of his posts will treat it as it deserves to be treated


"You say odd, suspicious things. And odd usually equals evil."
--Linda Lee

[Linda Lee]

On Jan 21, 6:51 am, vince garcia <***@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

Notice that some people reply to this thread, but seem afraid to say
why they find the Gospel offensive. Instead they've come to hate,
attack, and condemn, as usual, temporarily suspending their claim of
superior holiness because they pay lip service to the words "the law"
as did the unrighteous Pharisees.

Some try to slither around their rejection, seemingly afraid to say
that they find the church's traditional understanding of the Gospel of
Christ offensive, and instead call it things like "vince's theology",
as you quoted here.

Perhaps they're afraid to condemn themselves with words saying they
find Christ's Gospel offensive. I think Christ knows who finds his
Gospel offensive without any outright admission. It would benefit
some to examine their beliefs and determine what core beliefs lead
them to reject parts of the Gospel. With some here, I suspect it is
simply an unjustified sense of superiority over others that leads them
to attack the Gospel and those who accept it, and that they'll never
change.

Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto
your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give
good things to them that ask him?
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things __whatsoever ye would that men should
do to you, do ye even so to them: for THIS is the law and the
prophets.__
Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and
broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which
go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which
leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's
clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.


II Cor. 4:3, "But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are
lost".

[Anathema]

Post by vince garcia
screw you, you piece of dung.

Oh well...
Oy vey...

[duke]

Post by Anathema

Post by vince garcia
screw you, you piece of dung.

Oh well...

What I'd say.

Post by Anathema
Oy vey...

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[Sam Taylor]

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being
the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Here is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam

[H.E. Eickleberry]

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,

Your temporal ignorance is showing again: Jesus came in the middle of
the story, and then WENT to both ends of time.

That set up the singularity in which Jesus could say "I Am the root AND
offspring of David," i.e. Jesus was both the creator of the product and
a product of the creation AT THE SAME TIME."

Let me know when you get a clue that you don't have a clue as to what
you're talking about.

Ike

[vince garcia]

Post by Sam Taylor
Linda's evening Prayer,
dear lord smite mine enemies , even harder
than I have.
I have lied about what they Believe, and Falsely accused them, and condemned
them for your Namesake.
How dare they treat Me, like I treat Them, Let Me
Dine in acceptence before them that are ignorant, Unwise,
and Stupid.
so they Might see I am your Special christian, and you are my poopsie
Woopsie Daddy.
Let them be accursed acording to My wise Judgements,
and Vinces Judgements, for thou has set us forth to
charictor assasinate all those We deem unworthy of You.
If they do let not their relationship with You, be as
Super, or Exhaulted as Mine and Vinces.
for those Cheif seats in your Synagog belong to us, that way We may Guide,
You into all Wisdom When You do actually Exist, as Vince says you and Jesus
and the Holy Ghost are Eternaly Prexistant, and vince knows best,
and I back You , by backing Him up.
A new Mercedes would be nice.
I love you My poopsie Woopsie
injesusnameiask
Amen
then back to Her Rightious work, on the newsgroups

screw you, you piece of dung.

Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,

Absolutely I believe Jesus was pre-existent with the Father!

ANY real Christian believes that.

But not Sam Taylor…


To him, that's "HORSE SHIT"

Post by Sam Taylor
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D"…

Sam Taylor has explicitly denied he is a Chroistian or follows the

Post by Sam Taylor
The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was
Crucified, and accended unto his Father on High
giving gifts to men.
yours is the G-ds of Babylon, Egypt,of Medo persia, Greece, and Rome.
mine is the G-D of avraham Yisaak, and Yacob,
make Sure your g-ds are not in the bathroom,
when you decide you want to attack Me next.
"but to us their is But One G-D the father, and one
lord Jesus christ, Whom I call yashua the Messiah.
who himself prayed that Men may know THOU ALONE
art the Most High speaking of YHWH.
and the covenate given at Sinia, that YHWH alone would Be My G-D, I keep his
precepts and statutes, and Holy Days.
I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and Over again, I am a
Messianic Jew,
Xtians believe in the 3 G-ds of Big Daddy, JC, and the Spook

An example of Sam Taylor's TOTAL IGNORANCE OF HISTORY can be seen with
this stupid statement about the Septuagint NOT even being conceived in
the time of Mary.

Post by Sam Taylor
Vince
how did [Mary] do that since the First Septuagent
had not yet been concieved of, and or produced?
mybe She was physic or Somethin?
yup that are it.....She waz Physic!....GOLLY GEEWILIKERS
Sam

It was written 100-300 years before Christ. Sam Taylor posts that it
wasn't yet written when Mary was told she would give birth to Christ


Sam Taylor claims Jesus was probably married BECAUSE HE HAD A BEARD!!!.

Post by Sam Taylor
With the fact the messiah had a beard, that probubly means he was
married.

He has an aberrant view of the way Jews view the Law.

Post by Sam Taylor
Jews are REQUIRED THE ! COMMANDMENTS
(the 10 Commandments)
and Teaching their Children of The Holy Days of YHWH
and HIS STATUTES!
( the Number is 57 not 613)
this is how Orthadox and Conservative, and Reform
can be all Considered JEWS iregardless of KOSHER
and other ways of observance.
To a Jew the Laws of Moses are seperated from the "LAW OF YHWH You
call the 10 Comandments
To us these [the 10] are the Basis of Our morality.
the others are Rules, not Commandments

This was all refuted by true Jew Rob Strom (whom sam called a
"Xtian"!*), who said: "Sam's view doesn't map to either traditional
or Reform Judaism."

Post by Sam Taylor
* When Rob agrees with Your Doctrine of G-D he is INDEED a Xtian! and
NOT A JEW.

He has shown either complete ignorance of Christian history, or else is
a bold faced liar regarding it.

Post by Sam Taylor
there is no reference to Communion being offered other than Passover
until the 6th Century...
the Communion offering was not a weekly "Sunday"
observation in Catholosism until the 6th century, before it was done Yearly
on a Memorial service in Your Easter Pagan Holiday.

Refuted by the first century didache, which even talks about taking
communion every sunday, and gives prayers for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The Didascalia in the 3rd century mentioned it:

"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there
be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation
[communion], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our
Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week
he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up
to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with
the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).

It was WEEKLY OR DAILY for MANY, MANY years, including the years of the
sources I cited which mention it being taken EVERY SUNDAY! Pope Fabian
in the 200s even made it mandatory to receive communion AT LEAST--get
that, AT LEAST--THREE times a year...not 'ONCE a year and NO MORE' as
you are trying to claim. Even Augustine wrote about daily communion
being up to the individual.

He has shown complete ignorance regarding the greek language and the

Post by Sam Taylor
"Jesus means of Zeus or Nike"

Refuted by citing an article on the actual greek, comparing and showing
photos of ancient greek inscriptions proving this claim to be utterly
false

Post by Sam Taylor
Jews do NOT believe Man has a Soul!
You as a Xtian believe You have an ImortalSoul, and we believe We ARE a
mortal Soul We believe We Jews do Die, You believe You shed Your body
to life Soul Life forever either singing, or Screaming

Refuted by what REAL Jews say about the afterlife, compared to false
"jew," Sam taylor, who says they believe you're dead like a dog once
you're dead


Chabod.org: The soul is liberated from the body and returns closer to
her source than ever before.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2970/jewish/Do-Jews-Believe-in-an-Afterlife.htm

Answers.com: After a Jew dies his soul goes to heaven where it is judged
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Jews_believe_in_an_afterlife#ixzz18hiVUYyy

Ask Rabbi Simmons: When a person dies and goes to heaven, the judgment
is not arbitrary and externally imposed.
http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_afterlife.htm

Judaism 101: Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the
end of human existence. There is clear evidence in the Torah of belief
in
existence after death.
http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

Ask Moses: Simply put, yes--but what we believe in might better be
called "life after life." According to Jewish belief, it is only the
body that dies, while the soul lives on into eternity.
http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/614%2C223/Do-Jews-believe-in-an-after-life.html

wiki answers: According to Maimonides, an afterlife continues for the
soul of every human being, a soul now separated from the body in which
it was "housed" during its earthly existence.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_type_of_afterlife_do_Jewish_people_believe_in#ixzz18hkPK4eT

juicy jews: The short answer is YES, we do!
http://juicyjews.com/jewish-religious-questions/do-jews-believe-in-an-afterlife-or-heaven/

Jewish home lifecare: The "classic" Jewish belief is that when we die,
only the body dies, and the soul lives forever with God.
http://www.jewishhome.org/life-with-us/religious-and-spiritual-life-at-jewish-home/jewish-beliefs-and-traditions/death-and-afterlife


MORE SAM TAYLOR LIES...


You claimed that Nazi Skinheads broke into your shop in San Francisco
and beat you and your Jewish customers. (a lie)

You claimed that you filed and won a lawsuit against the American Nazi
Party (a lie quickly revealed by checking the record of lawsuits against
the ANP, which showed NO RECORD of one by a Sam Taylor)


He has been repeatedly exposed as a liar


So when Sam Taylor starts giving a lesson on the Greek langauge and how
that 'proves' essentials of the Christian faith are WRONG...I trust the
readers of his posts will treat it as it deserves to be treated


"You say odd, suspicious things. And odd usually equals evil."
--Linda Lee

[Linda Lee]

Post by vince garcia

Post by Sam Taylor
Linda's evening Prayer,
dear lord smite mine enemies , even harder
than I have.
I have lied about what they Believe, and Falsely accused them, and condemned
them for your Namesake.
How dare they treat Me, like I treat Them, Let Me
Dine in acceptence before them that are ignorant, Unwise,
and Stupid.
so they Might see I am your Special christian, and you are my poopsie
Woopsie Daddy.
Let them be accursed acording to My wise Judgements,
and Vinces Judgements, for thou has set us forth to
charictor assasinate all those We deem unworthy of You.
If they do let not their relationship with You, be as
Super, or Exhaulted as Mine and Vinces.
for those Cheif seats in your Synagog belong to us, that way We may Guide,
You into all Wisdom When You do actually Exist, as Vince says you and Jesus
and the Holy Ghost are Eternaly Prexistant, and vince knows best,
and I back You , by backing Him up.
A new Mercedes would be nice.
I love you My poopsie Woopsie
injesusnameiask
Amen
then back to Her Rightious work, on the newsgroups

screw you, you piece of dung.

Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,

Absolutely I believe Jesus was pre-existent with the Father!
ANY real Christian believes that.
But not Sam Taylor…
To him, that's "HORSE SHIT"

Post by Sam Taylor
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D"…

Sam Taylor has explicitly denied he is a Chroistian or follows the

Post by Sam Taylor
The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was
Crucified, and accended unto his Father on High
giving gifts to men.
yours is the G-ds of Babylon, Egypt,of Medo persia, Greece, and Rome.
mine is the G-D of avraham Yisaak, and Yacob,
make Sure your g-ds are not in the bathroom,
when you decide you want to attack Me next.
"but to us their is But One G-D the father, and one
lord Jesus christ, Whom I call yashua the Messiah.
who himself prayed that Men may know THOU ALONE
art the Most High speaking of YHWH.
and the covenate given at Sinia, that YHWH alone would Be My G-D, I keep his
precepts and statutes, and Holy Days.
I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and Over again, I am a
Messianic Jew,
Xtians believe in the 3 G-ds of Big Daddy, JC, and the Spook

An example of Sam Taylor's TOTAL IGNORANCE OF HISTORY can be seen with
this stupid statement about the Septuagint NOT even being conceived in
the time of Mary.

Post by Sam Taylor
Vince
how did [Mary] do that since the First Septuagent
had not yet been concieved of, and or produced?
mybe She was physic or Somethin?
yup that are it.....She waz Physic!....GOLLY GEEWILIKERS
Sam

It was written 100-300 years before Christ. Sam Taylor posts that it
wasn't yet written when Mary was told she would give birth to Christ
Sam Taylor claims Jesus was probably married BECAUSE HE HAD A BEARD!!!.

Post by Sam Taylor
With the fact the messiah had a beard, that probubly means he was
married.

He has an aberrant view of the way Jews view the Law.

Post by Sam Taylor
Jews are REQUIRED THE ! COMMANDMENTS
(the 10 Commandments)
and Teaching their Children of The Holy Days of YHWH
and HIS STATUTES!
( the Number is 57 not 613)
this is how Orthadox and Conservative, and Reform
can be all Considered JEWS iregardless of KOSHER
and other ways of observance.
To a Jew the Laws of Moses are seperated from the "LAW OF YHWH You
call the 10 Comandments
To us these [the 10] are the Basis of Our morality.
the others are Rules, not Commandments

This was all refuted by true Jew Rob Strom (whom sam called a
"Xtian"!*), who said: "Sam's  view doesn't map to either traditional
or Reform Judaism."

Post by Sam Taylor
* When Rob agrees with Your Doctrine of G-D he is INDEED a Xtian! and
NOT A JEW.

He has shown either complete ignorance of Christian history, or else is
a bold faced liar regarding it.

Post by Sam Taylor
there is no reference to Communion being offered other than Passover
until the 6th Century...
the Communion  offering was not a weekly "Sunday"
observation in Catholosism until the 6th century, before it was done Yearly
on a Memorial service in Your Easter Pagan Holiday.

Refuted by the first century  didache, which even talks about taking
communion every sunday, and gives prayers for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there
be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation
[communion], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our
Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week
he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up
to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with
the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).
It was WEEKLY OR DAILY for MANY, MANY years, including the years of the
sources I cited which mention it being taken EVERY SUNDAY! Pope Fabian
in the 200s even made it mandatory to receive communion AT LEAST--get
that, AT LEAST--THREE times a year...not 'ONCE a year and NO MORE' as
you are trying to claim. Even Augustine wrote about daily communion
being up to the individual.
He has shown complete ignorance regarding the greek language and the

Post by Sam Taylor
"Jesus means of Zeus or Nike"

Refuted by citing an article on the actual greek, comparing and showing
photos of ancient greek inscriptions proving this claim to be utterly
false

Post by Sam Taylor
Jews do NOT believe Man has a Soul!
You as a Xtian believe You have an ImortalSoul, and we believe We ARE a
 mortal Soul We believe We Jews do Die, You believe You shed Your body
 to life Soul Life forever either singing, or Screaming

Refuted by what REAL Jews say about the afterlife, compared to false
"jew," Sam taylor, who says they believe you're dead like a dog once
you're dead
Chabod.org: The soul is liberated from the body and returns closer to
her source than ever before.http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2970/jewish/Do-Jews-Bel...
Answers.com: After a Jew dies his soul goes to heaven where it is judged
 http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Jews_believe_in_an_afterlife#ixzz18hiVUYyy
Ask Rabbi Simmons: When a person dies and goes to heaven, the judgment
is not arbitrary and externally imposed.http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_afterlife.htm
Judaism 101: Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the
end of human existence. There is clear evidence in the Torah of belief
in
existence after death.http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm
Ask Moses: Simply put, yes--but what we believe in might better be
called "life after life." According to Jewish belief, it is only the
body that dies, while the soul lives on into eternity.http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/614%2C223/Do-Jews-believe-in-an-af...
wiki answers: According to Maimonides, an afterlife continues for the
soul of every human being, a soul now separated from the body in which
it was "housed" during its earthly existence.http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_type_of_afterlife_do_Jewish_people_bel...
juicy jews: The short answer is YES, we do!http://juicyjews.com/jewish-religious-questions/do-jews-believe-in-an...
Jewish home lifecare: The "classic" Jewish belief is that when we die,
only the body dies, and the soul lives forever with God.http://www.jewishhome.org/life-with-us/religious-and-spiritual-life-a...
MORE SAM TAYLOR LIES...
You claimed that Nazi Skinheads broke into your shop in San Francisco
and beat you and your Jewish customers. (a lie)
You claimed that you filed and won a lawsuit against the American Nazi
Party (a lie quickly revealed by checking the record of lawsuits against
the ANP, which showed NO RECORD of one by a Sam Taylor)
He has been repeatedly exposed as a liar
So when Sam Taylor starts giving a lesson on the Greek langauge and how
that 'proves' essentials of the Christian faith are WRONG...I trust the
readers of his posts will treat it as it deserves to be treated
"You say odd, suspicious things.  And odd usually equals evil."
 --Linda Lee

Notice the three devils Rod, Sam, and Anathema/Richard have lied as
they prove they don't really want peace (no doubt their brother
SwordOz will soon turn up); they have come to this thread wanting to
rejoice and declare victory for successfully causing a believer to
'sin with their mouth', as when I finally got fed up and told them to
FOAD and go to Hell. Their hatred can eat them up as it already does.

[SwordOz]

Post by Linda Lee
Notice the three devils Rod, Sam, and Anathema/Richard have lied as
they prove they don't really want peace

<sword>
Ps 37:32
"The **wicked** watch the righteous, and seek
to slay him".


(no doubt their brother

Post by Linda Lee
SwordOz will soon turn up);

<sword>
Job 20:5
"That the triumphing of the **wicked** is short,
and the joy of the hypocrite but for a moment"

Post by Linda Lee
they have come to this thread wanting to
rejoice and declare victory for successfully causing a believer to
'sin with their mouth', as when I finally got fed up and told them to
FOAD and go to Hell. Their hatred can eat them up as it already does.

<sword>
Job 11:20
"But the eyes of the **wicked** shall fail, and they shall not escape,
and their hope shall be as the giving up of the ghost".


There is always hope the wicked will recognize their pernicious ways.

[Linda Lee]

Looks like an implied threat is now being issued again, just as when
the four "brothers" delighted in speaking of killing me using the
metaphor of torturing and killing of "the cat". I certainly repent of
my lapses in sin and have turned from it; let's see if others can
repent and turn from their wicked ways as well and seek peace, rather
than threats and hatred.

[duke]

Post by Linda Lee
Looks like an implied threat is now being issued again, just as when
the four "brothers" delighted in speaking of killing me using the
metaphor of torturing and killing of "the cat". I certainly repent of
my lapses in sin and have turned from it; let's see if others can
repent and turn from their wicked ways as well and seek peace, rather
than threats and hatred.

To repent is to change, and to change is a lifetime endeavor.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[Rod]

Post by Linda Lee
Looks like an implied threat is now being issued again, just as when
the four "brothers" delighted in speaking of killing me using the
metaphor of torturing and killing of "the cat". I certainly repent of
my lapses in sin and have turned from it;

Uh huh...that's why you are telling another lie above in the first
sentence. Another false repentance, as only one telling a lie
would construe the posting of those bible verses as inferring
a threat against you.

Your lies are getting out of hand. If someone here had wanted to do
you harm it would very likely already be done. While you're being
hateful and ungrateful, think hard on that one..

Post by Linda Lee
let's see if others can
repent and turn from their wicked ways as well and seek peace, rather
than threats and hatred.

Sure..I repent of ever having known you..

--

[SwordOz]

Post by Linda Lee
Looks like an implied threat is now being issued again, just as when
the four "brothers" delighted in speaking of killing me using the
metaphor of torturing and killing of "the cat". I certainly repent of
my lapses in sin and have turned from it; let's see if others can
repent and turn from their wicked ways as well and seek peace, rather
than threats and hatred.

<sword>
Thank you my dear sister but you've lapsed into sin and
do not recognize it so please repent of the statements
made in your posting. No one delights in speaking of killing
you. It was a metaphor intended to get the point across to
you concerning your ungodly behavior concerning a personal
e-mail conversation rich and I were engaged in.

Hopefully you have gotten point by point the point which I was making.
Remember what I have warned you about in the past year that I will NOT
tolerate ungodly verbiage directed towards me from you nor anyone else.
Hopefully this is the end of it. Please don't destroy yourself Linda.


thanks

[Rod]

Post by Linda Lee

Post by vince garcia

Post by Sam Taylor
Linda's evening Prayer,
dear lord smite mine enemies , even harder
than I have.
I have lied about what they Believe, and Falsely accused them, and condemned
them for your Namesake.
How dare they treat Me, like I treat Them, Let Me
Dine in acceptence before them that are ignorant, Unwise,
and Stupid.
so they Might see I am your Special christian, and you are my poopsie
Woopsie Daddy.
Let them be accursed acording to My wise Judgements,
and Vinces Judgements, for thou has set us forth to
charictor assasinate all those We deem unworthy of You.
If they do let not their relationship with You, be as
Super, or Exhaulted as Mine and Vinces.
for those Cheif seats in your Synagog belong to us, that way We may Guide,
You into all Wisdom When You do actually Exist, as Vince says you and Jesus
and the Holy Ghost are Eternaly Prexistant, and vince knows best,
and I back You , by backing Him up.
A new Mercedes would be nice.
I love you My poopsie Woopsie
injesusnameiask
Amen
then back to Her Rightious work, on the newsgroups

screw you, you piece of dung.

Post by Sam Taylor
Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,

Absolutely I believe Jesus was pre-existent with the Father!
ANY real Christian believes that.
But not Sam Taylor…
To him, that's "HORSE SHIT"

Post by Sam Taylor
Holy horse shit vince,
you believe jesus is "Eternally in the prexistence with G-D"…

Sam Taylor has explicitly denied he is a Chroistian or follows the

Post by Sam Taylor
The G-D I serve is a different G-D than You serve,
Yours was created Years after, my Messiah was
Crucified, and accended unto his Father on High
giving gifts to men.
yours is the G-ds of Babylon, Egypt,of Medo persia, Greece, and Rome.
mine is the G-D of avraham Yisaak, and Yacob,
make Sure your g-ds are not in the bathroom,
when you decide you want to attack Me next.
"but to us their is But One G-D the father, and one
lord Jesus christ, Whom I call yashua the Messiah.
who himself prayed that Men may know THOU ALONE
art the Most High speaking of YHWH.
and the covenate given at Sinia, that YHWH alone would Be My G-D, I keep his
precepts and statutes, and Holy Days.
I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN, and have stated that Over, and Over again, I am a
Messianic Jew,
Xtians believe in the 3 G-ds of Big Daddy, JC, and the Spook

An example of Sam Taylor's TOTAL IGNORANCE OF HISTORY can be seen with
this stupid statement about the Septuagint NOT even being conceived in
the time of Mary.

Post by Sam Taylor
Vince
how did [Mary] do that since the First Septuagent
had not yet been concieved of, and or produced?
mybe She was physic or Somethin?
yup that are it.....She waz Physic!....GOLLY GEEWILIKERS
Sam

It was written 100-300 years before Christ. Sam Taylor posts that it
wasn't yet written when Mary was told she would give birth to Christ
Sam Taylor claims Jesus was probably married BECAUSE HE HAD A BEARD!!!.

Post by Sam Taylor
With the fact the messiah had a beard, that probubly means he was
married.

He has an aberrant view of the way Jews view the Law.

Post by Sam Taylor
Jews are REQUIRED THE ! COMMANDMENTS
(the 10 Commandments)
and Teaching their Children of The Holy Days of YHWH
and HIS STATUTES!
( the Number is 57 not 613)
this is how Orthadox and Conservative, and Reform
can be all Considered JEWS iregardless of KOSHER
and other ways of observance.
To a Jew the Laws of Moses are seperated from the "LAW OF YHWH You
call the 10 Comandments
To us these [the 10] are the Basis of Our morality.
the others are Rules, not Commandments

This was all refuted by true Jew Rob Strom (whom sam called a
"Xtian"!*), who said: "Sam's view doesn't map to either traditional
or Reform Judaism."

Post by Sam Taylor
* When Rob agrees with Your Doctrine of G-D he is INDEED a Xtian! and
NOT A JEW.

He has shown either complete ignorance of Christian history, or else is
a bold faced liar regarding it.

Post by Sam Taylor
there is no reference to Communion being offered other than Passover
until the 6th Century...
the Communion offering was not a weekly "Sunday"
observation in Catholosism until the 6th century, before it was done Yearly
on a Memorial service in Your Easter Pagan Holiday.

Refuted by the first century didache, which even talks about taking
communion every sunday, and gives prayers for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there
be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation
[communion], because on the first day of the week [i.e., Sunday] our
Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week
he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up
to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with
the angels of heaven" (Didascalia 2 [A.D. 225]).
It was WEEKLY OR DAILY for MANY, MANY years, including the years of the
sources I cited which mention it being taken EVERY SUNDAY! Pope Fabian
in the 200s even made it mandatory to receive communion AT LEAST--get
that, AT LEAST--THREE times a year...not 'ONCE a year and NO MORE' as
you are trying to claim. Even Augustine wrote about daily communion
being up to the individual.
He has shown complete ignorance regarding the greek language and the

Post by Sam Taylor
"Jesus means of Zeus or Nike"

Refuted by citing an article on the actual greek, comparing and showing
photos of ancient greek inscriptions proving this claim to be utterly
false

Post by Sam Taylor
Jews do NOT believe Man has a Soul!
You as a Xtian believe You have an ImortalSoul, and we believe We ARE a
mortal Soul We believe We Jews do Die, You believe You shed Your body
to life Soul Life forever either singing, or Screaming

Refuted by what REAL Jews say about the afterlife, compared to false
"jew," Sam taylor, who says they believe you're dead like a dog once
you're dead
Chabod.org: The soul is liberated from the body and returns closer to
her source than ever before.http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2970/jewish/Do-Jews-Bel...
Answers.com: After a Jew dies his soul goes to heaven where it is judged
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_Jews_believe_in_an_afterlife#ixzz18hiVUYyy
Ask Rabbi Simmons: When a person dies and goes to heaven, the judgment
is not arbitrary and externally imposed.http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_afterlife.htm
Judaism 101: Traditional Judaism firmly believes that death is not the
end of human existence. There is clear evidence in the Torah of belief
in
existence after death.http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm
Ask Moses: Simply put, yes--but what we believe in might better be
called "life after life." According to Jewish belief, it is only the
body that dies, while the soul lives on into eternity.http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/614%2C223/Do-Jews-believe-in-an-af...
wiki answers: According to Maimonides, an afterlife continues for the
soul of every human being, a soul now separated from the body in which
it was "housed" during its earthly existence.http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_type_of_afterlife_do_Jewish_people_bel...
juicy jews: The short answer is YES, we do!http://juicyjews.com/jewish-religious-questions/do-jews-believe-in-an...
Jewish home lifecare: The "classic" Jewish belief is that when we die,
only the body dies, and the soul lives forever with God.http://www.jewishhome.org/life-with-us/religious-and-spiritual-life-a...
MORE SAM TAYLOR LIES...
You claimed that Nazi Skinheads broke into your shop in San Francisco
and beat you and your Jewish customers. (a lie)
You claimed that you filed and won a lawsuit against the American Nazi
Party (a lie quickly revealed by checking the record of lawsuits against
the ANP, which showed NO RECORD of one by a Sam Taylor)
He has been repeatedly exposed as a liar
So when Sam Taylor starts giving a lesson on the Greek langauge and how
that 'proves' essentials of the Christian faith are WRONG...I trust the
readers of his posts will treat it as it deserves to be treated
"You say odd, suspicious things. And odd usually equals evil."
--Linda Lee

Notice the three devils Rod, Sam, and Anathema/Richard have lied as
they prove they don't really want peace (no doubt their brother
SwordOz will soon turn up); they have come to this thread wanting to
rejoice and declare victory for successfully causing a believer to
'sin with their mouth', as when I finally got fed up and told them to
FOAD and go to Hell. Their hatred can eat them up as it already does.

I'll keep you in my prayers.

--

[Sam Taylor]

Whats wrong about vinces theology.
vince believe Jesus is "Eternally Preexistent with the Father.
If that is so Jesus never came into existence,
He believes Jesus is G-D of Very G-d,
now the Term very G-d Means the bigger, the better,
and the most powerful of the Two(2)
as that would make Him G-ds G-D.
now this is very poorly put forth, and is
quite Nonsensical, if You think about It.
So who is Jesus? exactly who the Scripture says He is,
The Only Begotten Son of G-D,
So to explain this Simply the Very G-D gave birth to Him.
as is recorded in John 1:1
In the beginning WAS (past tense) the Word, (logos)
and the Word was WITH (with) G-D, .........AND.........
The Word WAS (was G-D)
Now read it Carefully as "WAS" is a past tense Word
denoting something that "WAS" but is no Longer,
and "WAS....."WITH" meaning He was not G-D but With G-D
the next verse explains that although G-D (speaking of the Father)
was the Creator, and he was the Agent of that Creation,
and NOT the Creator.
So to Simply put it Before anything else was brought Forth,
G-D brought forth His Only Begotten Son, He was NOT a Created Being,
but a Begotten Being.
and they together brought forth all Creation, again the Father being
the
Creator,
While the Son was the Agent of that Creation.
G-D brought forth from what seemed Nothingness, so the Son could
Make that which was Brought forth, and MAKE all that was Made.
now here is where We have the Biggest problem with vinces
theology, that is John 3:16
For G-D so loved the World He "GAVE" His Only Begotten Son.
now this was an eternal gift, not a loan, nor a short term Lease.
that Whomsoever MIGHT believe in him, should not Perish, but Have
Everlasting Life.
Vince does not believe it was an eternal gift, but a Short Term Loan.
BUT just When did G-d give his Son, Vince believes it was at the cross
Making G-D the Killer, not the Jews, or the Romans.
I believe when G-D gave his son was When G-D allowed His son,
to humble himself, and Become Flesh.
Vince of Course does not believe he came in the flesh, but came
Like the Nephelums Hybrid Half Spirit, and Half Man.
He Explains it as "Fully G-D, and Fully Man"
Now You know that that would be contrary to the Nature of both,
Nor can you be Fully one Thing, and Be fully another thing
as that makes no sense at all.
But why did G-D have to Give his Son, it was Sin, not the sin of Eve
as she was deceived, and didn't know she had been deceived until
She gave into the deception, and discovered Her deception.
Adam chose to sin knowing it was sin. and thus that sin had to
have a redeemer.
Her deception G-D could have dealt entirely different, than his sin
a redeemer is a near kinsman, and the basis for the Justice of G-D
is an eye for an eye, a tooth for a Tooth, and thus a Toe for a toe.
AND a Life for a life, the life of a near kinsman, or
someone like Adam the Him. not the Her, just before He chose to Sin
that could be the Only acceptable sacrifice.
Having a G-d for man is exacting to Heavy a price for justice.
Here is the Kicker most fail to see the Gift was eternal
meaning when G-D gave his Son, he never got him back.
G-D got back this second Adam, after WE sacrificed Him for Our sins,
and not G-D.
so this man Jesus Christ could become the mediator between us and G-d
to be an honest mediator He could not have become either G-D, or Man,
but an entirely new Creation, and When we see Him as he really is,
we become like him
Sam

[Sam Taylor]

Linda,
you mistakenly believe the Scripture Says
"That there is no condemnation of those in
Christ Jesus"
What it says in reality and Scripturally is
"that there is No Condemnation in those
of Christ Jesus"
That is how I recognize, Randy, Peter B,
Barry L, SOZ, Anathema, Nancy, OBVES,
Rod,Elder Child, and others.
Why is there no Condemnation in these?
because they walk by the Spirit, and Not,
by the Flesh.
these are the Called according to His
Purpose, not chose that Chose their
walk.
That is how I judge Others, and when,
I see those going around constantly
Condemning, Lying, and accusing
Others I know they do so from the flesh.
you and Vince, Throw out the most vile,
judgements of others, because You enjoy it.
If I say I do not believe this, it does NOT mean
I believe that.
For that is how You judge, but If I say I do Not
Believe this, I only mean I do not believe this,
and You cannot Inject any other conclusions
of My beliefs.
I am an Individual in Particular, and Believe what I believe.
that Means you cannot add Your conclusions of My
Beliefs, other than those i put forth in the
Putting on My beliefs.
Any Conclusion above that is a False Judgement.
Then to conclude I believe MUST ONLY be on
those things of which I believe, not those you and Vince
Assign that I believe.
My problem is You are both Enjoying doing the
Unrighteous standards of Judgements, You judge,
that If I believe this I must fall into a beliefs
System of this type of Group, or that type of Group.
When I first got a Response from Vince to
a Thread to Someone Else, Vince came forth, as a Dragon
Slayer, untruthfully Judging My Beliefs, With You following suit,
as a needy Lap dog.
I' am getting tired of it, as You show no Love, Mercy Compassion,
and Fruit of the Spirit of G-D, but from the Flesh You serve.
Yes there is condemnation for those of Yashua Messiah,
but not from the G-Dly, but the UnG-Dly.
of which You both show no sign of, but are like those
Being led by the Flesh, Ever Learning, never coming into
the knowledge of truth.
For they have a Religion, and what Religion sells on
every street corner, not a relationship with G-D, through
His Only Begotten Son Yashua Messiah the Righteous,
by being led by the Spirit of G-D, nor have Christ in them,
the Hope of Glory.
I pray You someday find
Sam

[Anathema]

Post by Anathema

Post by Anathema

Post by Nancy
They have not said anything to me about you....

Been a long long time now.

I am sure that Virgil would remember, as would
Donna, and Eagle.

And Edna.

[Nancy]

Post by Anathema

Post by Anathema

Post by Anathema

Post by Nancy
They have not said anything to me about you....

Been a long long time now.

I am sure that Virgil would remember, as would
Donna, and Eagle.

And Edna.

~~~
Nancy

I'm sure....8-) You know at that time I wasn't reading or study any
of the articles at zionministry.
I was going on what Virgil, Edna, Donna and Oscar would say. Then I
would listen to you and Denver.
...and some of the others.
Once I asked Virgil if he would tape the services they held and send
them to me......thank God he
said no....had he... I never would have gone to God. 8-)