Grateful Dead's fateful blunder

[grunk]

http://tinyurl.com/4vya7rw

When the Grateful Dead announced the release of "Europe '72: The
Complete Recordings," it was like a dream come true. It contains every
note of every show of the band’s legendary 1972 European tour, a holy
grail for Grateful Dead fans. It will be elaborately packaged and cost
$450. And the limited pressing of 7,200 box sets sold out in less than
four days.

That's where the trouble begins and success turns to possible failure.

The Dead came up with a compromise. Those who missed out can buy the
music only – sans the elaborate box (of which they'd bragged "wait
until you see the case in which the music is housed, the hard-bound
coffee-table book, plus all of the other cool surprises we've been
unearthing!").

But as MSN Entertainment Senior Producer/resident Deadhead Dave McCoy
points out, the cost is still $450 – a price-point penalty to those
fans who didn’t jump on board from the get-go.

The box itself, which doesn’t even come out till Labor Day, is already
fetching four-figures on eBay.

Look, gauging demand for a product is a very hard science. Prince did
up a slick, thick coffee-table book of his 21-night stand in London a
few years ago, including a disc of live music from those stands,
including a cover of Led Zeppelin’s “Whole Lotta Love.” Much as I
wanted that disc, I wasn’t going to pay $50 for a vanity project. But
I happily scooped it up at Border’s the other day, as dozens of copies
sat, sealed, in the $4.99 bargain bin (and the live disc is damn
good).


But the Dead is known for its elaborate boxes, including “The Golden
Road” and “Beyond Description,” seen below.






Given the size and sheer endurance of the Deadheads – and the fact
that many of those people are baby-boomers, who still buy more music
each year than any other demographic – maybe 7,200 copies of the new
box was shooting a bit low, yes?

So, to wrap it up: Deadheads who shelled out the money early thinking
it was the only way to (legitimately) get the music now find out
anyone can get the music. The upside: They get the nice packaging that
others won’t.

Fans who didn’t get the music in time now find they still have to pay
full price to (legitimately) get a much lesser product. Upside: They
still get the music, and 60-plus discs at $450 comes out to about $7
per disc, and each disc averages more than an hour of music.

The Dead is stuck in the middle – if it dropped the music-only option
price, the original buyers of the full box would howl. It kept the
$450 original price, and the rest of the buyers are howling. Plus at
the moment it's available only online (which means brick-and-mortar
record stores that have supported the band for years are cut out) and
only in the U.S. (so if you live in Europe and actually attended these
shows, you can't buy it).

But in a community that has been used to “trading” for decades, be it
cassettes, mp3s or CDRs, the Dead have created a ripe situation for
fans to feel ill-treated and justify illegal downloads of the music,
which I guarantee you will be available in lossless formats on a
million bittorrent sites within hours of the official release, if not
sooner.

[Mark Scalise]

Post by grunk
http://tinyurl.com/4vya7rw
When the Grateful Dead announced the release of "Europe '72: The
Complete Recordings," it was like a dream come true. It contains every
note of every show of the band’s legendary 1972 European tour, a holy
grail for Grateful Dead fans. It will be elaborately packaged and cost
$450. And the limited pressing of 7,200 box sets sold out in less than
four days.

I had the "collector" mentality for years, but eventually got tired of
it. It's just expensive packaging, albeit lovely to gaze at.

[unknown]

Post by Mark Scalise

Post by grunk
When the Grateful Dead announced the release of "Europe '72: The
Complete Recordings," it was like a dream come true. It contains every
note of every show of the band’s legendary 1972 European tour, a holy
grail for Grateful Dead fans. It will be elaborately packaged and cost
$450. And the limited pressing of 7,200 box sets sold out in less than
four days.

I had the "collector" mentality for years, but eventually got tired of
it. It's just expensive packaging, albeit lovely to gaze at.

Yes, but it also contains a pretty big book, which could be a nice plus.

Kirk

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by grunk
That's where the trouble begins and success turns to possible failure.

I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is. Seems like they did it perfectly. Some people are
upset? That happens all the time. Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.

But it seems to me that they did this about right.

[grunk]

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by grunk
That's where the trouble begins and success turns to possible failure.

I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Hey, I didn't write the article, I merely posted it.
To be honest, I agree with you 100%.
In an industry that is struggling to turn a buck, they sold 7,500
copies of a $450.00, 60 cd box in four days, and it isn't even
shipping until September?
This is more than just a little impressive!
What I found somewhat amusing is that the writer points out that this
will all be up for lossless torrenting within hours of it's release.
Equally amusing is the failure to mention that we already have all of
these shows in pristine quality anyway!

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by grunk

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by grunk
That's where the trouble begins and success turns to possible failure.

I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Hey, I didn't write the article, I merely posted it.
To be honest, I agree with you 100%.
In an industry that is struggling to turn a buck, they sold 7,500
copies of a $450.00,  60 cd box in four days, and it isn't even
shipping until September?
This is more than just a little impressive!
What I found somewhat amusing is that the writer points out that this
will all be up for lossless torrenting within hours of it's release.
Equally amusing is the failure to mention that we already have all of
these shows in pristine quality anyway!

Yeah, I know you didn't write it, and thanks for posting it!

I guess a headline including "fateful blunder" gets more attention
than one saying something like "record company gets it mostly right."

[unknown]

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I guess a headline including "fateful blunder" gets more attention
than one saying something like "record company gets it mostly right."

Or, "More than $3 Million in CDs Sold in 4 Days," which, in this time
of crisis in the music biz, is an astounding feat.

Kirk

[dave]

Post by grunk
Equally amusing is the failure to mention that we already have all of
these shows in pristine quality anyway!

Does anyone know how much of this tour has been previously
unavailable? Is it just a matter of some song beginnings and endings
being clipped on circulating sources, or are there entire songs (or
more) from this tour that we haven't heard?

Personally, $450 is too rich for my blood - with or without bells and
whistles. I'm holding out hope that they sell the individual shows
eventually.

[DGDevin]

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is. Seems like they did it perfectly. Some people are
upset? That happens all the time. Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more. And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.

These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

[marcman]

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out. They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles. The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

[sparksfly]

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out.  They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles.  The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree with Marc. I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost. My bad but really why such a limited run and why start pre-sale
fucking 9 months before the actual release? Seems like they thought it
would take longer to sell out. They could have had my 450 but
apparently didn't want it that badly. Yeah its bad to overestimate
demand, that's a money loser but its also a money loser to
underestimate demand. Fuck'em I'm not paying same price for the music
without the box. Or maybe I will not sure yet.

Mike

[marcman]

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out.  They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles.  The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree with Marc.  I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost.  My bad but really why such a limited run and why start pre-sale
fucking 9 months before the actual release? Seems like they thought it
would take longer to sell out.  They could have had my 450 but
apparently didn't want it that badly.  Yeah its bad to overestimate
demand, that's a money loser but its also a money loser to
underestimate demand.

I don't get how it's a money loser when the pre-sale is 9 months in
advance. It's not like they're producing the boxes first, then trying
to sell them, they're getting people to pay for them up front, they
could have sold as many as people wanted to buy. I *do* understand
about keeping the number's down though to keep it somewhat exclusive,
that's why they're going for $1000+ on eBay right now . . . but even
if the idea was to keep it limited to 7,200, for exclusivity reasons,
they probably should have charged more for the box. I mean if they
sold $3M worth of these boxes in 4 days, 9 months in advance, they
probably could have sold them for $650. Then the "music only"
wouldn't be the same price as the "bells and whistles" edition.

I think they "blundered" for sure, I don't think they handled this in
a good business fashion . . . just my opinion . . .

 Fuck'em I'm not paying same price for the music
without the box. Or maybe I will not sure yet.
Mike

Ain't no way I'm paying $450 for the music alone. Hell, I probably
wasn't paying $450 for the nifty box, so definitely no way I'm paying
that just for the music. At $450 it may in fact come out to only
$7.50 per CD, put that's for a 60 CD commitment . . . too expensive,
especially when most if not all of this stuff is probably sitting in
boxes in my garage . . .

[Andrew]

Post by marcman
Ain't no way I'm paying $450 for the music alone. Hell, I probably
wasn't paying $450 for the nifty box, so definitely no way I'm paying
that just for the music.  At $450 it may in fact come out to only
$7.50 per CD, put that's for a 60 CD commitment . . . too expensive,
especially when most if not all of this stuff is probably sitting in
boxes in my garage . . .

Yeah, that's the thing. I'm packing stuff up in preparation of moving,
and the first thing I packed was all my CDs. In the process of doing
that, the thought crossed my mind that most of those CDs I'll never
actually set eyes on again. Most of what I have in those boxes now
I've got stored on a few six-inch-by-four-inch hard drives, and what I
haven't digitized is easily available for download in a variety of
areas.

So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

[marcman]

Post by Andrew

Post by marcman
Ain't no way I'm paying $450 for the music alone. Hell, I probably
wasn't paying $450 for the nifty box, so definitely no way I'm paying
that just for the music.  At $450 it may in fact come out to only
$7.50 per CD, put that's for a 60 CD commitment . . . too expensive,
especially when most if not all of this stuff is probably sitting in
boxes in my garage . . .

Yeah, that's the thing. I'm packing stuff up in preparation of moving,
and the first thing I packed was all my CDs. In the process of doing
that, the thought crossed my mind that most of those CDs I'll never
actually set eyes on again. Most of what I have in those boxes now
I've got stored on a few six-inch-by-four-inch hard drives, and what I
haven't digitized is easily available for download in a variety of
areas.
So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

IIRC they said some of the photos were never before seen. ###

[Andrew]

Post by marcman

Post by Andrew

Post by marcman
Ain't no way I'm paying $450 for the music alone. Hell, I probably
wasn't paying $450 for the nifty box, so definitely no way I'm paying
that just for the music.  At $450 it may in fact come out to only
$7.50 per CD, put that's for a 60 CD commitment . . . too expensive,
especially when most if not all of this stuff is probably sitting in
boxes in my garage . . .

Yeah, that's the thing. I'm packing stuff up in preparation of moving,
and the first thing I packed was all my CDs. In the process of doing
that, the thought crossed my mind that most of those CDs I'll never
actually set eyes on again. Most of what I have in those boxes now
I've got stored on a few six-inch-by-four-inch hard drives, and what I
haven't digitized is easily available for download in a variety of
areas.
So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

IIRC they said some of the photos were never before seen. ###

You know, reading back over that, I think my post was overly negative.
This is a great fucking release and I'm very much interested in
hearing the rest of these shows if these things are remastered and
anywhere near the sound quality of some of the other released Europe
'72 sets... I'm just not interested in the actual bells and whistles.
Gimme the FLACs...

[Andrew]

Post by Andrew

Post by marcman

Post by Andrew

Post by marcman
Ain't no way I'm paying $450 for the music alone. Hell, I probably
wasn't paying $450 for the nifty box, so definitely no way I'm paying
that just for the music.  At $450 it may in fact come out to only
$7.50 per CD, put that's for a 60 CD commitment . . . too expensive,
especially when most if not all of this stuff is probably sitting in
boxes in my garage . . .

Yeah, that's the thing. I'm packing stuff up in preparation of moving,
and the first thing I packed was all my CDs. In the process of doing
that, the thought crossed my mind that most of those CDs I'll never
actually set eyes on again. Most of what I have in those boxes now
I've got stored on a few six-inch-by-four-inch hard drives, and what I
haven't digitized is easily available for download in a variety of
areas.
So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

IIRC they said some of the photos were never before seen. ###

You know, reading back over that, I think my post was overly negative.
This is a great fucking release and I'm very much interested in
hearing the rest of these shows if these things are remastered and
anywhere near the sound quality of some of the other released Europe
'72 sets... I'm just not interested in the actual bells and whistles.
Gimme the FLACs...

And reading back over *that*, I'm not sure why I wrote "actual" before
bells and whistles... Unless there are bells and whistles included in
the box...

[marcman]

Post by Andrew

Post by Andrew

Post by marcman

Post by Andrew

Post by marcman
Ain't no way I'm paying $450 for the music alone. Hell, I probably
wasn't paying $450 for the nifty box, so definitely no way I'm paying
that just for the music.  At $450 it may in fact come out to only
$7.50 per CD, put that's for a 60 CD commitment . . . too expensive,
especially when most if not all of this stuff is probably sitting in
boxes in my garage . . .

Yeah, that's the thing. I'm packing stuff up in preparation of moving,
and the first thing I packed was all my CDs. In the process of doing
that, the thought crossed my mind that most of those CDs I'll never
actually set eyes on again. Most of what I have in those boxes now
I've got stored on a few six-inch-by-four-inch hard drives, and what I
haven't digitized is easily available for download in a variety of
areas.
So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

IIRC they said some of the photos were never before seen. ###

You know, reading back over that, I think my post was overly negative.
This is a great fucking release and I'm very much interested in
hearing the rest of these shows if these things are remastered and
anywhere near the sound quality of some of the other released Europe
'72 sets... I'm just not interested in the actual bells and whistles.
Gimme the FLACs...

And reading back over *that*, I'm not sure why I wrote "actual" before
bells and whistles... Unless there are bells and whistles included in
the box...

Two bells. One whistle.

[The old geezer]

Two bells. One whistle...

Music should be *free* for the people, man!

TOG

ND: Genesee Bock Beer
NO: A River Of Appearance - Vidna Obmana

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by marcman

Post by Andrew

Post by Andrew

Post by marcman

Post by Andrew

Post by marcman
Ain't no way I'm paying $450 for the music alone. Hell, I probably
wasn't paying $450 for the nifty box, so definitely no way I'm paying
that just for the music.  At $450 it may in fact come out to only
$7.50 per CD, put that's for a 60 CD commitment . . . too expensive,
especially when most if not all of this stuff is probably sitting in
boxes in my garage . . .

Yeah, that's the thing. I'm packing stuff up in preparation of moving,
and the first thing I packed was all my CDs. In the process of doing
that, the thought crossed my mind that most of those CDs I'll never
actually set eyes on again. Most of what I have in those boxes now
I've got stored on a few six-inch-by-four-inch hard drives, and what I
haven't digitized is easily available for download in a variety of
areas.
So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

IIRC they said some of the photos were never before seen. ###

You know, reading back over that, I think my post was overly negative.
This is a great fucking release and I'm very much interested in
hearing the rest of these shows if these things are remastered and
anywhere near the sound quality of some of the other released Europe
'72 sets... I'm just not interested in the actual bells and whistles.
Gimme the FLACs...

And reading back over *that*, I'm not sure why I wrote "actual" before
bells and whistles... Unless there are bells and whistles included in
the box...

Two bells. One whistle.

And a wet willie.

[band beyond description]

Post by marcman

Post by Andrew

Post by marcman
Ain't no way I'm paying $450 for the music alone. Hell, I probably
wasn't paying $450 for the nifty box, so definitely no way I'm paying
that just for the music. At $450 it may in fact come out to only
$7.50 per CD, put that's for a 60 CD commitment . . . too expensive,
especially when most if not all of this stuff is probably sitting in
boxes in my garage . . .

Yeah, that's the thing. I'm packing stuff up in preparation of moving,
and the first thing I packed was all my CDs. In the process of doing
that, the thought crossed my mind that most of those CDs I'll never
actually set eyes on again. Most of what I have in those boxes now
I've got stored on a few six-inch-by-four-inch hard drives, and what I
haven't digitized is easily available for download in a variety of
areas.
So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

IIRC they said some of the photos were never before seen. ###

IAAHSWEurope72wasn'tI?

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by Andrew

Post by marcman
Ain't no way I'm paying $450 for the music alone. Hell, I probably
wasn't paying $450 for the nifty box, so definitely no way I'm paying
that just for the music. At $450 it may in fact come out to only
$7.50 per CD, put that's for a 60 CD commitment . . . too expensive,
especially when most if not all of this stuff is probably sitting in
boxes in my garage . . .

Yeah, that's the thing. I'm packing stuff up in preparation of moving,
and the first thing I packed was all my CDs. In the process of doing
that, the thought crossed my mind that most of those CDs I'll never
actually set eyes on again. Most of what I have in those boxes now
I've got stored on a few six-inch-by-four-inch hard drives, and what I
haven't digitized is easily available for download in a variety of
areas.
So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

There's a lot to respond to in this thread, but seeing as how I'm driving
home in the snow, I'll just camp on to Andrew's post - the last thing I
need is more *stuff*. I'm trying to get rid of stuff. I'll hopefully have
the opportunity to sample some of the music, at some point.

[DGDevin]

Post by Andrew
So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

I wonder how many purchasers of this box set listen to just a few shows,
half the shows, most of the shows--and how long it takes them. I'm thinking
that the only way most folks will listen to most of it will be if they stick
a list beside the bathroom mirror and check off a show per week until
they're done. Otherwise it could take a decade or two if they pull out an
occasional show at random.

I'd be more interested in a set of maybe the top five shows (assuming we
could come up with a consensus on the top five). But some folks are
completists, they want every last one even if the odds of listening to them
all are slim.

[Neil X]

Post by DGDevin

Post by Andrew
So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

I wonder how many purchasers of this box set listen to just a few shows,
half the shows, most of the shows--and how long it takes them.  I'm thinking
that the only way most folks will listen to most of it will be if they stick
a list beside the bathroom mirror and check off a show per week until
they're done.  Otherwise it could take a decade or two if they pull out an
occasional show at random.
I'd be more interested in a set of maybe the top five shows (assuming we
could come up with a consensus on the top five).  But some folks are
completists, they want every last one even if the odds of listening to them
all are slim.

There are something like 17 El Pasos on the 60 disks. The thing to do
is listen to those all back-to-back.

Peace,
Neil X.

[marcman]

Post by DGDevin

Post by Andrew
So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

I wonder how many purchasers of this box set listen to just a few shows,
half the shows, most of the shows--and how long it takes them.  I'm thinking
that the only way most folks will listen to most of it will be if they stick
a list beside the bathroom mirror and check off a show per week until
they're done.  Otherwise it could take a decade or two if they pull out an
occasional show at random.
I'd be more interested in a set of maybe the top five shows (assuming we
could come up with a consensus on the top five).  But some folks are
completists, they want every last one even if the odds of listening to them
all are slim.

There are something like 17 El Pasos on the 60 disks.  The thing to do
is listen to those all back-to-back.
Peace,
Neil X.

Neil's right. The first thing I would do if I had the CDs before
listening is to rip the music onto a HD then reorder everything first
alphabetically by song title, then by date.

[da Flower Punk]

There are something like 17 El Pasos on the 60 disks.  The thing to do
is listen to those all back-to-back.

You are a foul, evil man. ;-)

[DGDevin]

Post by Neil X
There are something like 17 El Pasos on the 60 disks. The thing to do
is listen to those all back-to-back.

I've actually done things like that, ripped umpteen renditions of [insert
name of song] and put them on one playlist or one disc. It's most
interesting when you start in like 1968 and go up to the 90s, hearing the
variations over the years back-to-back is fun.

[Sherry in Vermont]

There

Post by DGDevin

Post by Neil X
are something like 17 El Pasos on the 60 disks. The thing to do
is listen to those all back-to-back.

I've actually done things like that, ripped umpteen renditions of
[insert name of song] and put them on one playlist or one disc. It's
most interesting when you start in like 1968 and go up to the 90s,
hearing the variations over the years back-to-back is fun.

I used to have a tape of nothing but Looks Like Rain from many shows...
that got lost somewhere along I-70 coming back from Sacramento in 89.

Sherry in Vermont

[marcman]

Post by Sherry in Vermont
I used to have a tape of nothing but Looks Like Rain from many shows...
that got lost somewhere along I-70 coming back from Sacramento in 89.
Sherry in Vermont

Best trip ya ever took!

[Sherry in Vermont]

Post by marcman

Post by Sherry in Vermont
I used to have a tape of nothing but Looks Like Rain from many shows...
that got lost somewhere along I-70 coming back from Sacramento in 89.
Sherry in Vermont

Best trip ya ever took!

It's certainly up there among them!

Sherry in Vermont

[Steve Terry]

Post by DGDevin

Post by Andrew
So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

I wonder how many purchasers of this box set listen to just a few shows,
half the shows, most of the shows--and how long it takes them.  I'm thinking
that the only way most folks will listen to most of it will be if they stick
a list beside the bathroom mirror and check off a show per week until
they're done.  Otherwise it could take a decade or two if they pull out an
occasional show at random.
I'd be more interested in a set of maybe the top five shows (assuming we
could come up with a consensus on the top five).  But some folks are
completists, they want every last one even if the odds of listening to them
all are slim.

I wonder how many won't even open up the damn thing. It's already
appreciated significantly in value and it's still seven-plus months
away from being officially released.

Me? I plan to open it up, check out the whistles and bells, load the
files onto the computer and then file the boxed set alongside my
Fillmore West boxed set to gather dust. And, yes, I'll listen to the
music sooner or later. My thirty-five minute commute and sixty minute
workouts will get er done.

[marcman]

Post by Steve Terry

Post by DGDevin

Post by Andrew
So, some big box with 60 CDs worth of music that I already have? No
thanks. Once this thing comes out and I hear reviews about the sound
quality of the releases, I may be interested in the FLACs, but actual
physical CDs (whether accompanied or not by some big coffee table book
of pictures I've already seen before) are just about as useful to me
these days as floppy disks or VHS tapes or a landline phone.

I wonder how many purchasers of this box set listen to just a few shows,
half the shows, most of the shows--and how long it takes them.  I'm thinking
that the only way most folks will listen to most of it will be if they stick
a list beside the bathroom mirror and check off a show per week until
they're done.  Otherwise it could take a decade or two if they pull out an
occasional show at random.
I'd be more interested in a set of maybe the top five shows (assuming we
could come up with a consensus on the top five).  But some folks are
completists, they want every last one even if the odds of listening to them
all are slim.

I wonder how many won't even open up the damn thing. It's already
appreciated significantly in value

I am of the belief that its value is peaking or close to peaking right
now. It may appreciate a bit more before they start shipping, but once
the "newness" wears off it'll drop in price on the secondary markets
and not rise again for some time. So if anybody bought one or more of
these specifically to make some coin, now's the time to sell sell
sell!

Post by Steve Terry
and it's still seven-plus months
away from being officially released.
Me? I plan to open it up, check out the whistles and bells, load the
files onto the computer and then file the boxed set alongside my
Fillmore West boxed set to gather dust. And, yes, I'll listen to the
music sooner or later. My thirty-five minute commute and sixty minute
workouts will get er done.

[Steve Terry]

Post by marcman
I am of the belief that its value is peaking or close to peaking right
now. It may appreciate a bit more before they start shipping, but once
the "newness" wears off it'll drop in price on the secondary markets
and not rise again for some time. So if anybody bought one or more of
these specifically to make some coin, now's the time to sell sell
sell!

Probably so. But the Fillmore West boxed set has been holding steady
at five hundred on Ebay since I last checked anyway. Of course the
difference being that that set was truly limited to 10k units. The
Europe '72 offering without the whistles and bells throws a bit of a
wrench into things. I agree with you though, selling price won't
likely get much higher than it is now, when demand is very, very high.

[unknown]

Post by marcman
It's not like they're producing the boxes first, then trying
to sell them, they're getting people to pay for them up front, they
could have sold as many as people wanted to buy.

You're not billed until September.

Kirk

[Edwin Hurwitz]

Post by unknown

Post by marcman
It's not like they're producing the boxes first, then trying
to sell them, they're getting people to pay for them up front, they
could have sold as many as people wanted to buy.

You're not billed until September.
Kirk

I seem to have been billed already. Or maybe Discover was just checking
on a hold.

Edwin

[unknown]

Post by Edwin Hurwitz

Post by unknown

Post by marcman
It's not like they're producing the boxes first, then trying
to sell them, they're getting people to pay for them up front, they
could have sold as many as people wanted to buy.

You're not billed until September.
Kirk

I seem to have been billed already. Or maybe Discover was just checking
on a hold.

It should be just a hold. I've been following some of the posts on
dead.net, and others are reporting that the amount has been freed up.
(I didn't see anything on my card.)

Kirk

[DGDevin]

Post by sparksfly
I agree with Marc. I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost.

So next time they announce a box set you and a lot of other folks will rush
to hand over your money. It was all part of a fiendish plot to pump up
demand for future releases, next time they'll announce they're doing 10,000
sets and they'll actually press 25,000 and blow them all out as panicked
customers stampede to buy the limited edition.

[sparksfly]

Post by DGDevin

I agree with Marc.  I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost.

So next time they announce a box set you and a lot of other folks will rush
to hand over your money.  It was all part of a fiendish plot to pump up
demand for future releases, next time they'll announce they're doing 10,000
sets and they'll actually press 25,000 and blow them all out as panicked
customers stampede to buy the limited edition.

I did put in a reservation after I found out they were sold out. I
figured what the heck. Well I just found an email from them telling
me they will be send ordering info in 72 hours. Maybe I am getting a
box set after all!

Mike

[Randy G]

Post by DGDevin
So next time they announce a box set you and a lot of other folks will rush
to hand over your money.  

Yeah, I'm holding out for the Egypt box set.

[DGDevin]

Post by Randy G

Post by DGDevin
So next time they announce a box set you and a lot of other folks will rush
to hand over your money.

Yeah, I'm holding out for the Egypt box set.

Exactly, that pyramid-shaped box and little envelope of sand is going to be
the hot ticket.

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by Randy G

Post by DGDevin
So next time they announce a box set you and a lot of other folks will rush
to hand over your money.  

Yeah, I'm holding out for the Egypt box set.

I've got some shit from Egypt that I'll sell ya!

[PierreInBernal]

Post by Randy G

Post by DGDevin
So next time they announce a box set you and a lot of other folks will rush
to hand over your money.  

Yeah, I'm holding out for the Egypt box set.

I'm holding out for the vinyl box set...should be about 130 LPs or so.
pl

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out.  They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles.  The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree with Marc.  I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost.  My bad but really why such a limited run and why start pre-sale
fucking 9 months before the actual release? Seems like they thought it
would take longer to sell out.  They could have had my 450 but
apparently didn't want it that badly.  Yeah its bad to overestimate
demand, that's a money loser but its also a money loser to
underestimate demand.  Fuck'em I'm not paying same price for the music
without the box. Or maybe I will not sure yet.
Mike

Well, I disagree with you guys - if they sold just the music for
*less* than $450, that really hoses the early responders, who
shouldn't be penalized in any way, shape, or form, for taking the
plunge. They had no prior knowledge that the same deal, minus the
fluff (well, one man's fluff is another man's . . .) would be
available if they had just waited . . . a day.

So, the people who forged ahead, through any financial angst they
might have suffered, deserve not to pay any more.

[marcman]

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out.  They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles.  The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree with Marc.  I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost.  My bad but really why such a limited run and why start pre-sale
fucking 9 months before the actual release? Seems like they thought it
would take longer to sell out.  They could have had my 450 but
apparently didn't want it that badly.  Yeah its bad to overestimate
demand, that's a money loser but its also a money loser to
underestimate demand.  Fuck'em I'm not paying same price for the music
without the box. Or maybe I will not sure yet.
Mike

Well, I disagree with you guys - if they sold just the music for
*less* than $450, that really hoses the early responders, who
shouldn't be penalized in any way, shape, or form, for taking the
plunge.  They had no prior knowledge that the same deal, minus the
fluff (well, one man's fluff is another man's . . .) would be
available if they had just waited . . .   a day.
So, the people who forged ahead, through any financial angst they
might have suffered, deserve not to pay any more.

Agreed!

That's why I'm saying this wasn't planned well enough.

The bells and whistles box set should have been for sale at one price
and the music only should have been available at a cheaper price. Pre
planned, no reason for anybody to get in a snit, buy what you want, a
product for every budget (almost, anyway). GDP/Rhino was probably
concerned that if they sold the music only at a discount, maybe they
wouldn't sell as many boxes. They were wrong. And that's what the
article, which I agree with, says, that they blundered. Turns out they
could have sold a lot more than 7200, or they could have sold the 7200
for a bigger price. I suppose we don't know for sure that if the music
only was available at oh, lets just say 200 or 250 if that would have
cut into box sales, but the way the 7200 flew off the shelves, before
the shelves were even built, its hard to imagine that it would have.

And furthermore, the GD and their people have always been trailblazers
of sorts with their marketing . . . whomever mentioned this first was
right on . . . this should also be offered on a hard drive packaged up
the right way. Would be a first as far as I'm aware . . . would have
been pretty cool too . . .

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by marcman

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out.  They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles.  The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree with Marc.  I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost.  My bad but really why such a limited run and why start pre-sale
fucking 9 months before the actual release? Seems like they thought it
would take longer to sell out.  They could have had my 450 but
apparently didn't want it that badly.  Yeah its bad to overestimate
demand, that's a money loser but its also a money loser to
underestimate demand.  Fuck'em I'm not paying same price for the music
without the box. Or maybe I will not sure yet.
Mike

Well, I disagree with you guys - if they sold just the music for
*less* than $450, that really hoses the early responders, who
shouldn't be penalized in any way, shape, or form, for taking the
plunge.  They had no prior knowledge that the same deal, minus the
fluff (well, one man's fluff is another man's . . .) would be
available if they had just waited . . .   a day.
So, the people who forged ahead, through any financial angst they
might have suffered, deserve not to pay any more.

Agreed!
That's why I'm saying this wasn't planned well enough.
The bells and whistles box set should have been for sale at one price
and the music only should have been available at a cheaper price. Pre
planned, no reason for anybody to get in a snit, buy what you want, a

OK, I get it now. They could have proposed it all, up front, you get
to decide to pay more for the booty, or the lower price for just the
cds. Sorry I was dense. But that's me.

[marcman]

Post by marcman

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out.  They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles.  The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree with Marc.  I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost.  My bad but really why such a limited run and why start pre-sale
fucking 9 months before the actual release? Seems like they thought it
would take longer to sell out.  They could have had my 450 but
apparently didn't want it that badly.  Yeah its bad to overestimate
demand, that's a money loser but its also a money loser to
underestimate demand.  Fuck'em I'm not paying same price for the music
without the box. Or maybe I will not sure yet.
Mike

Well, I disagree with you guys - if they sold just the music for
*less* than $450, that really hoses the early responders, who
shouldn't be penalized in any way, shape, or form, for taking the
plunge.  They had no prior knowledge that the same deal, minus the
fluff (well, one man's fluff is another man's . . .) would be
available if they had just waited . . .   a day.
So, the people who forged ahead, through any financial angst they
might have suffered, deserve not to pay any more.

Agreed!
That's why I'm saying this wasn't planned well enough.
The bells and whistles box set should have been for sale at one price
and the music only should have been available at a cheaper price. Pre
planned, no reason for anybody to get in a snit, buy what you want, a

OK, I get it now.  They could have proposed it all, up front, you get
to decide to pay more for the booty, or the lower price for just the
cds.  Sorry I was dense.  But that's me.

Not only that. As a business, they could have sold the 7200 boxes for
a lot more than 450 and still sold out. Or, sold more than 7200.
Either way though, I think the main "blunder" was in selling the boxes
for the same price as the non boxes. It pisses off two kinds of people
and perhaps drives them underground (torrent sites); the people that
would have bought the boxes but got shut out, and the people that want
the music only.

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by marcman

Post by marcman

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out.  They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles.  The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree with Marc.  I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost.  My bad but really why such a limited run and why start pre-sale
fucking 9 months before the actual release? Seems like they thought it
would take longer to sell out.  They could have had my 450 but
apparently didn't want it that badly.  Yeah its bad to overestimate
demand, that's a money loser but its also a money loser to
underestimate demand.  Fuck'em I'm not paying same price for the music
without the box. Or maybe I will not sure yet.
Mike

Well, I disagree with you guys - if they sold just the music for
*less* than $450, that really hoses the early responders, who
shouldn't be penalized in any way, shape, or form, for taking the
plunge.  They had no prior knowledge that the same deal, minus the
fluff (well, one man's fluff is another man's . . .) would be
available if they had just waited . . .   a day.
So, the people who forged ahead, through any financial angst they
might have suffered, deserve not to pay any more.

Agreed!
That's why I'm saying this wasn't planned well enough.
The bells and whistles box set should have been for sale at one price
and the music only should have been available at a cheaper price. Pre
planned, no reason for anybody to get in a snit, buy what you want, a

OK, I get it now.  They could have proposed it all, up front, you get
to decide to pay more for the booty, or the lower price for just the
cds.  Sorry I was dense.  But that's me.

Not only that. As a business, they could have sold the 7200 boxes for
a lot more than 450 and still sold out. Or, sold more than 7200.
Either way though, I think the main "blunder" was in selling the boxes
for the same price as the non boxes. It pisses off two kinds of people
and perhaps drives them underground (torrent sites); the people that
would have bought the boxes but got shut out, and the people that want
the music only.

Maybe next time they'll have the confidence to do it right.
But . . . how many whole tours are people going to jump at? I'm with
Sweets - fall '72 in pristine sound would be outstanding. Other than
that - what could they possibly come up with that would be so
universally desired? All of '67 and '68? With lots of lost /
improved stuff? Even that would have a limited audience. I'd never
consider a later years 60 disc box set.

And what are these torrent sites you speak of?

[marcman]

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by marcman

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out.  They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles.  The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree with Marc.  I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost.  My bad but really why such a limited run and why start pre-sale
fucking 9 months before the actual release? Seems like they thought it
would take longer to sell out.  They could have had my 450 but
apparently didn't want it that badly.  Yeah its bad to overestimate
demand, that's a money loser but its also a money loser to
underestimate demand.  Fuck'em I'm not paying same price for the music
without the box. Or maybe I will not sure yet.
Mike

Well, I disagree with you guys - if they sold just the music for
*less* than $450, that really hoses the early responders, who
shouldn't be penalized in any way, shape, or form, for taking the
plunge.  They had no prior knowledge that the same deal, minus the
fluff (well, one man's fluff is another man's . . .) would be
available if they had just waited . . .   a day.
So, the people who forged ahead, through any financial angst they
might have suffered, deserve not to pay any more.

Agreed!
That's why I'm saying this wasn't planned well enough.
The bells and whistles box set should have been for sale at one price
and the music only should have been available at a cheaper price. Pre
planned, no reason for anybody to get in a snit, buy what you want, a

OK, I get it now.  They could have proposed it all, up front, you get
to decide to pay more for the booty, or the lower price for just the
cds.  Sorry I was dense.  But that's me.

Not only that. As a business, they could have sold the 7200 boxes for
a lot more than 450 and still sold out. Or, sold more than 7200.
Either way though, I think the main "blunder" was in selling the boxes
for the same price as the non boxes. It pisses off two kinds of people
and perhaps drives them underground (torrent sites); the people that
would have bought the boxes but got shut out, and the people that want
the music only.

Maybe next time they'll have the confidence to do it right.
But . . .  how many whole tours are people going to jump at?  I'm with
Sweets - fall '72 in pristine sound would be outstanding.  Other than
that - what could they possibly come up with that would be so
universally desired?

Eighty Thor?

Post by dr.narcolepsy
 All of '67 and '68?  With lots of lost /
improved stuff?  Even that would have a limited audience.  I'd never
consider a later years 60 disc box set.
And what are these torrent sites you speak of?

[band beyond description]

Post by marcman

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by sparksfly

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is. Seems like they did it perfectly. Some people are
upset? That happens all the time. Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more. And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out. They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles. The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree with Marc. I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost. My bad but really why such a limited run and why start pre-sale
fucking 9 months before the actual release? Seems like they thought it
would take longer to sell out. They could have had my 450 but
apparently didn't want it that badly. Yeah its bad to overestimate
demand, that's a money loser but its also a money loser to
underestimate demand. Fuck'em I'm not paying same price for the music
without the box. Or maybe I will not sure yet.
Mike

Well, I disagree with you guys - if they sold just the music for
*less* than $450, that really hoses the early responders, who
shouldn't be penalized in any way, shape, or form, for taking the
plunge. They had no prior knowledge that the same deal, minus the
fluff (well, one man's fluff is another man's . . .) would be
available if they had just waited . . . a day.
So, the people who forged ahead, through any financial angst they
might have suffered, deserve not to pay any more.

Agreed!
That's why I'm saying this wasn't planned well enough.
The bells and whistles box set should have been for sale at one price
and the music only should have been available at a cheaper price. Pre
planned, no reason for anybody to get in a snit, buy what you want, a

OK, I get it now. They could have proposed it all, up front, you get
to decide to pay more for the booty, or the lower price for just the
cds. Sorry I was dense. But that's me.

Not only that. As a business, they could have sold the 7200 boxes for
a lot more than 450 and still sold out. Or, sold more than 7200.
Either way though, I think the main "blunder" was in selling the boxes
for the same price as the non boxes. It pisses off two kinds of people
and perhaps drives them underground (torrent sites); the people that
would have bought the boxes but got shut out, and the people that want
the music only.

Maybe next time they'll have the confidence to do it right.
But . . . how many whole tours are people going to jump at? I'm with
Sweets - fall '72 in pristine sound would be outstanding. Other than
that - what could they possibly come up with that would be so
universally desired?

Eighty Thor?

Post by dr.narcolepsy
All of '67 and '68? With lots of lost /
improved stuff? Even that would have a limited audience. I'd never
consider a later years 60 disc box set.
And what are these torrent sites you speak of?

That's eighty-throur!

[dr.narcolepsy]

On Jan 27, 12:08 am, band beyond description

Post by band beyond description

Post by marcman

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by marcman

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out.  They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles.  The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree with Marc.  I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost.  My bad but really why such a limited run and why start pre-sale
fucking 9 months before the actual release? Seems like they thought it
would take longer to sell out.  They could have had my 450 but
apparently didn't want it that badly.  Yeah its bad to overestimate
demand, that's a money loser but its also a money loser to
underestimate demand.  Fuck'em I'm not paying same price for the music
without the box. Or maybe I will not sure yet.
Mike

Well, I disagree with you guys - if they sold just the music for
*less* than $450, that really hoses the early responders, who
shouldn't be penalized in any way, shape, or form, for taking the
plunge.  They had no prior knowledge that the same deal, minus the
fluff (well, one man's fluff is another man's . . .) would be
available if they had just waited . . .   a day.
So, the people who forged ahead, through any financial angst they
might have suffered, deserve not to pay any more.

Agreed!
That's why I'm saying this wasn't planned well enough.
The bells and whistles box set should have been for sale at one price
and the music only should have been available at a cheaper price. Pre
planned, no reason for anybody to get in a snit, buy what you want, a

OK, I get it now.  They could have proposed it all, up front, you get
to decide to pay more for the booty, or the lower price for just the
cds.  Sorry I was dense.  But that's me.

Not only that. As a business, they could have sold the 7200 boxes for
a lot more than 450 and still sold out. Or, sold more than 7200.
Either way though, I think the main "blunder" was in selling the boxes
for the same price as the non boxes. It pisses off two kinds of people
and perhaps drives them underground (torrent sites); the people that
would have bought the boxes but got shut out, and the people that want
the music only.

Maybe next time they'll have the confidence to do it right.
But . . .  how many whole tours are people going to jump at?  I'm with
Sweets - fall '72 in pristine sound would be outstanding.  Other than
that - what could they possibly come up with that would be so
universally desired?

Eighty Thor?

Post by dr.narcolepsy
 All of '67 and '68?  With lots of lost /
improved stuff?  Even that would have a limited audience.  I'd never
consider a later years 60 disc box set.
And what are these torrent sites you speak of?

That's eighty-throur!
--
Peace, Steve

For the fredheads.

[Neil X]

Post by marcman

Post by marcman

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out.  They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles.  The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree with Marc.  I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost.  My bad but really why such a limited run and why start pre-sale
fucking 9 months before the actual release? Seems like they thought it
would take longer to sell out.  They could have had my 450 but
apparently didn't want it that badly.  Yeah its bad to overestimate
demand, that's a money loser but its also a money loser to
underestimate demand.  Fuck'em I'm not paying same price for the music
without the box. Or maybe I will not sure yet.
Mike

Well, I disagree with you guys - if they sold just the music for
*less* than $450, that really hoses the early responders, who
shouldn't be penalized in any way, shape, or form, for taking the
plunge.  They had no prior knowledge that the same deal, minus the
fluff (well, one man's fluff is another man's . . .) would be
available if they had just waited . . .   a day.
So, the people who forged ahead, through any financial angst they
might have suffered, deserve not to pay any more.

Agreed!
That's why I'm saying this wasn't planned well enough.
The bells and whistles box set should have been for sale at one price
and the music only should have been available at a cheaper price. Pre
planned, no reason for anybody to get in a snit, buy what you want, a

OK, I get it now.  They could have proposed it all, up front, you get
to decide to pay more for the booty, or the lower price for just the
cds.  Sorry I was dense.  But that's me.

Not only that. As a business, they could have sold the 7200 boxes for
a lot more than 450 and still sold out. Or, sold more than 7200.
Either way though, I think the main "blunder" was in selling the boxes
for the same price as the non boxes. It pisses off two kinds of people
and perhaps drives them underground (torrent sites); the people that
would have bought the boxes but got shut out, and the people that want
the music only.

This is quite a set of assumptions that you make. Just because they
sold 7000+ at $450 doesn't mean that 7000 people would have bought it
if it cost a "lot more" than that. They probably could have sold a
considerably larger number than 7000, that I agree with. IMO, if they
wanted to go with the "limited edition" sales model, they needed to
make it clearer to people that this was not something that was going
to be available for long. I didn't really grok that, not that I was
inclined to buy it.

At any rate, how many people who ordered the set do you think would
have *not* ordered it if they knew that, say 12,000 units were being
sold instead of 7500? I doubt that would have cost them a single
dollar in lost sales. They underestimated demand.

As for the subsequent non-box set sales, I'm not clear on whether they
send actual CDs or a link for a FLAC download. If it is FLAC
downloads that they are contemplating, of course they should be
cheaper; a LOT cheaper. It's a hassle to download disks and burn
them. But even if they're still sending CDs, they need to reduce the
price. Early adopters always pay a premium, it should come as no
surprise to them.

Peace,
Neil X.

[band beyond description]

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by sparksfly

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is. Seems like they did it perfectly. Some people are
upset? That happens all the time. Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more. And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out. They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles. The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree with Marc. I intended to order the box set but snoozed and
lost. My bad but really why such a limited run and why start pre-sale
fucking 9 months before the actual release? Seems like they thought it
would take longer to sell out. They could have had my 450 but
apparently didn't want it that badly. Yeah its bad to overestimate
demand, that's a money loser but its also a money loser to
underestimate demand. Fuck'em I'm not paying same price for the music
without the box. Or maybe I will not sure yet.
Mike

Well, I disagree with you guys - if they sold just the music for
*less* than $450, that really hoses the early responders, who
shouldn't be penalized in any way, shape, or form, for taking the
plunge. They had no prior knowledge that the same deal, minus the
fluff (well, one man's fluff is another man's . . .) would be
available if they had just waited . . . a day.
So, the people who forged ahead, through any financial angst they
might have suffered, deserve not to pay any more.

Agreed!
That's why I'm saying this wasn't planned well enough.
The bells and whistles box set should have been for sale at one price
and the music only should have been available at a cheaper price. Pre
planned, no reason for anybody to get in a snit, buy what you want, a

OK, I get it now. They could have proposed it all, up front, you get
to decide to pay more for the booty, or the lower price for just the
cds. Sorry I was dense. But that's me.

The concussion thread is three doors down on the left...

[gringo]

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out.  They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles.  The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree. The point is that they might have been able to sell 10,000.

Kurt

[3jane.]

Post by gringo

Post by marcman
I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out.  They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles.  The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

I agree. The point is that they might have been able to sell 10,000.

They will sell 10,000, this way they only have to do up the expensive
box sets for 7,200 of them.

[Brad Greer]

On Wed, 26 Jan 2011 11:21:44 -0800 (PST), marcman

Post by marcman

Post by DGDevin

Post by dr.narcolepsy
I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Yup, a standard rule in show biz is to always leave the audience wanting
more.  And a standard rule in retail is if you didn't run out of stock
before you ran out of customers who wanted to buy one then you ordered too
many.
These shows aren't going away, so long as the demand is there they'll sell
them in some other format.

I disagree with all y'all. They should have sold more than 7,200, and
they should have had a better plan for selling just the music after
the box set run was sold out. They would have yielded more revenue
and not alienated people by charging them the same $450 for just the
music without the bells and whistles. The author is right, the way
GDP or Rhino or whomever handled this they're practically *pushing*
people to the torrent sites.

They obviously picked the 7200 number for the symbolism, which is
fine. They could have sold more, and I think they left money on the
table.

As for selling the same music for the same price without the
packaging, I think that's a mistake. It feels like a ripoff, and
people will find other ways to get the music without the packaging.
They've also completely ignored (so far as I can tell) serving the
lossless download market, something that an awful lot of Deadheads are
familiar with. This wasn't a complete blunder, but mostly right isn't
particularly accurate either.

[yoker]

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by grunk
That's where the trouble begins and success turns to possible failure.

I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Do you think it's right that a buyer could buy more than one copy of
this set?

Do you think it's right that for the price of the box set, late comers
could purchase just the music at the same price?

Do you think it's right that some copies of the set will sell for
twice to triple the list price on auction sites?

Do you think it's right that the music from this set will be available
as FREE ILLEGAL lossless & lossy downloads?


I think not. One copy per buyer. A higher number of sets, but not by
much. I get it where the 7200 comes in. As for free illegal lossless &
lossy downloads, I'll be mute on that, because I've downloaded some
sale-able music for free, too. Not the unreleased music, but
previously released music that was marketed earlier and current works
without paying for it.

[yoker]

Post by yoker

Post by dr.narcolepsy
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Do you think it's right that a buyer could buy more than one copy of
this set?
Do you think it's right that for the price of the box set, late comers
could purchase just the music at the same price?
Do you think it's right that some copies of the set will sell for
twice to triple the list price on auction sites?
Do you think it's right that the music from this set will be available
as FREE ILLEGAL lossless & lossy downloads?
I think not. One copy per buyer. A higher number of sets, but not by
much. I get it where the 7200 comes in. As for free illegal lossless &
lossy downloads, I'll be mute on that, because I've downloaded some
sale-able music for free, too. Not the unreleased music, but
previously released music that was marketed earlier and current works
without paying for it.

From *grey-area* sites.

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by yoker

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by grunk
That's where the trouble begins and success turns to possible failure.

I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is.  Seems like they did it perfectly.  Some people are
upset?  That happens all the time.  Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Do you think it's right that a buyer could buy more than one copy of
this set?

How could they really prevent that? There's no way to fairly prevent
that. The obvious one order per credit card . . . nah. There was
obviously one cautious camp (perhaps that's putting it mildly) at
Rhino (is that who this is?) . . . they needed proof that they'd
sell. Yes, despite all the evidence that's clear to us crazy
deadheads that it would be a winner . . . So, buy two, buy one for
me, one as a gift, etc.

They did the right thing - got an overwhelming response, put it out
right away without the box of crap. As I said in the last post, they
couldn't charge *less*.

One per address is even less fair. Roomates? Shacker uppers? Etc.
Again, the point is that some group at Rhino needed to see proof that
it would sell.

Post by yoker
Do you think it's right that for the price of the box set, late comers
could purchase just the music at the same price?

Yes. If anything, the hesitators should pay a little *more*.

Post by yoker
Do you think it's right that some copies of the set will sell for
twice to triple the list price on auction sites?

How in the world do you prevent that?

Post by yoker
Do you think it's right that the music from this set will be available
as FREE ILLEGAL lossless & lossy downloads?

Right as in free beer?

Post by yoker
I think not. One copy per buyer. A higher number of sets, but not by
much. I get it where the 7200 comes in. As for free illegal lossless &
lossy downloads, I'll be mute on that, because I've downloaded some
sale-able music for free, too. Not the unreleased music, but
previously released music that was marketed earlier and current works
without paying for it.

I understand the stance . . . I don't agree with it.

[Walter Karmazyn]

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by grunk
That's where the trouble begins and success turns to possible failure.

I don't get where the "fateful blunder" is . . . I don't get where the
"failure" is. Seems like they did it perfectly. Some people are
upset? That happens all the time. Hell, I'm still pissed that they
stopped the downloads from the Taper Section, and that they where
192k, in the first place.
But it seems to me that they did this about right.

Imo, they'd have done better to have the original option to get the
fancy box set, or straight packaging. Extra fluff is worth extra bucks,
and not everybody needs that.

I think the other mistake is not having the 24bit option, I mentioned
the Beatles box set had that. It would have been nice to see this whole
thing released on one or two thumb drives. They could have followed the
Beatles a little further and done something special with the drives, the
Beatles release was shaped in the Apple logo for anyone not familiar. A
single drive done like a Stealie, or perhaps a double set, each with one
of the art from the album, packaged in a simple but cool box to keep
them safe in. The Beatles 24bit cost about 50 bucks more than the cd
box set btw.

Not sure they'd do that now. Anybody who has a 24bit capable system
would be righteously pissed having shelled out $450 for 16bit (20 if you
have hdcd) inferior material, unless they just purchased to box set for
the fluff. All imo, of course.

W

[dr.narcolepsy]

the Beatles box set had that.  It would have been nice to see this whole
thing released on one or two thumb drives.  They could have followed the

With CDs, at least people have to go to the trouble of EACing the
discs before getting them out and about.

[da Flower Punk]

Post by grunk
It will be elaborately packaged and cost
$450. And the limited pressing of 7,200 box sets sold out in less than
four days.

$3,375,000 in four days.

I'd love to blunder that big!

[marcman]

Post by da Flower Punk

Post by grunk
It will be elaborately packaged and cost
$450. And the limited pressing of 7,200 box sets sold out in less than
four days.

$3,375,000 in four days.
I'd love to blunder that big!

I'd rather blunder $6,000,000 in ten days.

[Steve Terry]

Post by marcman

Post by da Flower Punk

Post by grunk
It will be elaborately packaged and cost
$450. And the limited pressing of 7,200 box sets sold out in less than
four days.

$3,375,000 in four days.
I'd love to blunder that big!

I'd rather blunder $6,000,000 in ten days.

Hey now, it hasn't been ten days yet. They just might plunder that
much.

[dr.narcolepsy]

Post by marcman

Post by da Flower Punk

Post by grunk
It will be elaborately packaged and cost
$450. And the limited pressing of 7,200 box sets sold out in less than
four days.

$3,375,000 in four days.
I'd love to blunder that big!

I'd rather blunder $6,000,000 in ten days.

Easy to know that *now*.

[Neil X]

Post by dr.narcolepsy

Post by marcman

Post by da Flower Punk

Post by grunk
It will be elaborately packaged and cost
$450. And the limited pressing of 7,200 box sets sold out in less than
four days.

$3,375,000 in four days.
I'd love to blunder that big!

I'd rather blunder $6,000,000 in ten days.

Easy to know that *now*.

Blunders are like that--obvious in retrospect.

Peace,
Neil X., who has plenty of direct experience with the phenomenon