BOB'S TESTIMONY-Copy at will to either website, Vera/Feather

[Bob]

My name is Bob and I'm an American. My father was a preacher's kid, born in
the Amazon jungle in Brazil, on the mission field. He's a retired aerospace
engineer. He brought me up in the faith, but I was still very unsure. I had
been baptized as a baby in my Mother's Methodist church, as well as
confirmed and baptized in both a Lutheran and a Presbyterian church. We
moved around a lot. I wanted to know if God really existed but I couldn't
think of any way to force Him to reveal Himself to me. I finally decided to
think the most horribly vile and wicked thoughts about Him that I could and
thought that would force Him to instantly kill me, and then, with my dying
breath I would know He was real.
Well, that didn't work.
I got into a lot of trouble as I grew up, started drinking at 13, doing
drugs at 14, joined up with a biker gang at 15, ran away from home at 16,
sold drugs, and even ran two labs making LSD and hash oil. I could
concentrate a pound of marijuana into a one inch lump. I was making as much
money as my father who worked at a local NASA facility. I was nearly caught
by the Drug Enforcement Administration in a federal investigation and fled
the state for awhile at 16. I joined a hippie commune in Tennessee in the
Spring of 1977, but I left after a few weeks when I found out that the
leader was a bigamist and a hypocrite. I had a near-fatal motorcycle
accident January 4, 1978 when I hit a parked car while speeding at 75mph.
While I was recuperating two of my friends were killed on motorcycles and
neither was breaking the law, as I had been. I had a real sense that God had
a plan for me. During my healing time, some Mormons came to my door with
their false gospel of sweetness and light. I joined the Mormons then at 17
but when I found out that they are a polytheistic non-Christian cult, I got
out of there in a hurry. I didn't know enough about Christians to become
one, but I knew a fraud when I saw it. The Mormons are probably the most
deceitfully wicked cult operating in the world today. They appear to be so
holy, but the Bible says:
2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising
themselves as apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of
light.
2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise
themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to
their deeds.
I firmly believe that this teaches us that the first place we are to look
for error, is in the pulpit.
I married a lapsed Roman Catholic multimillionaire coke freak when I was 18
and kept on doing drugs, as did she til she became pregnant. She was tricked
into divorcing me by her mother, who wanted to take her money and needed me
out of the way to do it. They told her that I just wanted her money, so to
prove otherwise I never even hired a lawyer or contested the divorce in any
way; her parents died knowing that I never took a dime from them or their
daughter. I was a divorced father at age 21.
I studied Buddhism, Hinduism, Transcendental Meditation, Hare-Krishna,
Spiritism, Freemasonry, Yoga, and so forth. I looked at everything. I went
through the EST cult training and for awhile I actually had powers which
were inexplicable. It was very frightening, and I finally quit. I was
seduced by two witches I met in a health-food store who told me they could
tell I was a powerful person. I cut off contact with them after a short
while, as I felt terribly uncomfortable with a lot of what was going on.
I became so despondent over the loss of my wife that I became homicidal. I
bought a gun and began carrying it everywhere. I was just waiting for
someone to get in my way, because I wanted to kill. I was arrested on Ash
Wednesday, 1982 after pulling it out and threatening a man who jumped in
front of my truck at an intersection. I was convicted of "Aggravated Assault
with a Deadly Weapon" and "Illegally Carrying a Concealed Deadly Weapon",
and given a year's probation.
I became even more infuriated, enraged, psychopathic really, and hated my
hometown so much that I wanted to destroy it. I analyzed the situation of
the city in relation to surrounding bodies of water and realized that a
carefully placed and well designed truck bomb at the base of a large dike
could cause the city to be exposed to a river carrying 450,000 cubic feet of
water per second. This would submerge most of a city of 2,000,000 with about
30 feet of water, covering three story buildings. It would kill thousands
and render the area permanently uninhabitable. I began looking around on the
black market for dynamite and found out that large charges used in oil
exploration were available; sticks of dynamite weighing 110 pounds each. It
would flood the city within 27 hours.
Fortunately, shortly after I became fixated on this scheme, some pot-head
friends of mine who had moved away called me and said they'd heard my
divorce was final and they offered to let me move in with them to get away
from all my bad memories. I moved and set up a lab making LSD and began
selling it, and taking it every other day. I didn't work, I just made my
money selling drugs. I began to have visions when I was truly stoned out of
my mind, and they were always to the effect that taking drugs was wrong,
that my parents had told me the truth about God when I was a kid, and that I
needed to become a Christian ASAP. This was not your typical acid trip!
There was a mix-up with the Department of Parole and Probation and I was
forced after 6 months to return back home. I still kept having these very
vivid sobering experiences with LSD and Mescaline.
God also spoke to me clearly and said, "You must go to the nearest Baptist
church and do what they tell you there." I had never been to a Baptist
church. I began looking around the area and found that one I passed on the
way to work was the nearest. I would stop by every day after work to find
out when their services were; it didn't say on the sign out front, and I
never went anywhere on Sundays. Every time that I stopped by there would be
200 cars in the parking lot but not a soul in sight. This really grabbed my
attention.
On June 14, 1983 I was late getting home from work and I saw only two cars
as I went by, with two men talking between them. They told me they all
carpooled into the city from the church! I asked when the services were and
they asked me if I was a Christian, and I said "Yeah, I think so." So they
asked me if I had been saved, and I said I wasn't sure what they meant. Then
they asked if I had ever been born again; I said "No, I am sure I have only
been born once!" They shared with me from Romans about how we are all
sinners in the eyes of God, that Christ died for our sins, and from John's
Gospel that you MUST be born again, or you will NEVER even see the Kingdom
of God. I was born again that evening. I began a process of carrying out
Christian repentance in all the areas of my life. I quit doing drugs and
found out that my friends weren't my friends if I wasn't going to do drugs
or sell them acid anymore.
I have been a Christian for 21 years now, and I have never had cause to
complain about how God has treated me, even though my life has been quite
difficult. My darling wife of 16 years, the mother of my three little ones,
died of cancer in 2003. She never complained against God, but instead she
bore her suffering with a deep Christian faith that would never waver. God
has blessed me with the ability to retire at age 43 to care for my children
and myself. I have my own mission field and it has already yielded a rich
harvest! All three of my little kids have been saved and we are a 100%
Christian family, filled with love. The suffering of their mother was great,
but they never accused God of evil; they also bore up with the burden placed
on their little shoulders in a quiet and graceful manner.
Nothing in this world could cause me to leave the Christian faith; God has
proven to me again and again that He is Wonderful and Holy beyond my wildest
imaginations! I hope that this testimony has taught you that God can save
anyone, no matter who they are or what they did.
God Bless You All!
Bob<><

[:::vera:::]

Post by Bob
My name is Bob and I'm an American. My father was a preacher's kid,
born in the Amazon jungle in Brazil, on the mission field. He's a
retired aerospace engineer. He brought me up in the faith, but I was
still very unsure. I had been baptized as a baby in my Mother's
Methodist church, as well as confirmed and baptized in both a
Lutheran and a Presbyterian church. We moved around a lot. I wanted
to know if God really existed but I couldn't think of any way to
force Him to reveal Himself to me. I finally decided to think the
most horribly vile and wicked thoughts about Him that I could and
thought that would force Him to instantly kill me, and then, with my
dying breath I would know He was real. Well, that didn't work.
I got into a lot of trouble as I grew up, started drinking at 13,
doing drugs at 14, joined up with a biker gang at 15, ran away from
home at 16, sold drugs, and even ran two labs making LSD and hash
oil. I could concentrate a pound of marijuana into a one inch lump. I
was making as much money as my father who worked at a local NASA
facility. I was nearly caught by the Drug Enforcement Administration
in a federal investigation and fled the state for awhile at 16. I
joined a hippie commune in Tennessee in the Spring of 1977, but I
left after a few weeks when I found out that the leader was a
bigamist and a hypocrite. I had a near-fatal motorcycle accident
January 4, 1978 when I hit a parked car while speeding at 75mph.
While I was recuperating two of my friends were killed on motorcycles
and neither was breaking the law, as I had been. I had a real sense
that God had a plan for me. During my healing time, some Mormons came
to my door with their false gospel of sweetness and light. I joined
the Mormons then at 17 but when I found out that they are a
polytheistic non-Christian cult, I got out of there in a hurry. I
didn't know enough about Christians to become one, but I knew a fraud
when I saw it. The Mormons are probably the most deceitfully wicked
cult operating in the world today. They appear to be so holy, but the
Bible says: 2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful
workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 2 Cor 11:14 No
wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also
disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be
according to their deeds.
I firmly believe that this teaches us that the first place we are to
look for error, is in the pulpit.
I married a lapsed Roman Catholic multimillionaire coke freak when I
was 18 and kept on doing drugs, as did she til she became pregnant.
She was tricked into divorcing me by her mother, who wanted to take
her money and needed me out of the way to do it. They told her that I
just wanted her money, so to prove otherwise I never even hired a
lawyer or contested the divorce in any way; her parents died knowing
that I never took a dime from them or their daughter. I was a
divorced father at age 21. I studied Buddhism, Hinduism,
Transcendental Meditation, Hare-Krishna, Spiritism, Freemasonry,
Yoga, and so forth. I looked at everything. I went through the EST
cult training and for awhile I actually had powers which were
inexplicable. It was very frightening, and I finally quit. I was
seduced by two witches I met in a health-food store who told me they
could tell I was a powerful person. I cut off contact with them after
a short while, as I felt terribly uncomfortable with a lot of what
was going on. I became so despondent over the loss of my wife that I
became homicidal. I bought a gun and began carrying it everywhere. I
was just waiting for someone to get in my way, because I wanted to
kill. I was arrested on Ash Wednesday, 1982 after pulling it out and
threatening a man who jumped in front of my truck at an intersection.
I was convicted of "Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon" and
"Illegally Carrying a Concealed Deadly Weapon", and given a year's
probation. I became even more infuriated, enraged, psychopathic
really, and hated my hometown so much that I wanted to destroy it. I
analyzed the situation of the city in relation to surrounding bodies
of water and realized that a carefully placed and well designed truck
bomb at the base of a large dike could cause the city to be exposed
to a river carrying 450,000 cubic feet of water per second. This
would submerge most of a city of 2,000,000 with about 30 feet of
water, covering three story buildings. It would kill thousands and
render the area permanently uninhabitable. I began looking around on
the black market for dynamite and found out that large charges used
in oil exploration were available; sticks of dynamite weighing 110
pounds each. It would flood the city within 27 hours. Fortunately,
shortly after I became fixated on this scheme, some pot-head friends
of mine who had moved away called me and said they'd heard my divorce
was final and they offered to let me move in with them to get away
from all my bad memories. I moved and set up a lab making LSD and
began selling it, and taking it every other day. I didn't work, I
just made my money selling drugs. I began to have visions when I was
truly stoned out of my mind, and they were always to the effect that
taking drugs was wrong, that my parents had told me the truth about
God when I was a kid, and that I needed to become a Christian ASAP.
This was not your typical acid trip! There was a mix-up with the
Department of Parole and Probation and I was forced after 6 months
to return back home. I still kept having these very vivid sobering
experiences with LSD and Mescaline. God also spoke to me clearly and
said, "You must go to the nearest Baptist church and do what they
tell you there." I had never been to a Baptist church. I began
looking around the area and found that one I passed on the way to
work was the nearest. I would stop by every day after work to find
out when their services were; it didn't say on the sign out front,
and I never went anywhere on Sundays. Every time that I stopped by
there would be 200 cars in the parking lot but not a soul in sight.
This really grabbed my attention. On June 14, 1983 I was late getting
home from work and I saw only two cars as I went by, with two men
talking between them. They told me they all carpooled into the city
from the church! I asked when the services were and they asked me if
I was a Christian, and I said "Yeah, I think so." So they asked me if
I had been saved, and I said I wasn't sure what they meant. Then they
asked if I had ever been born again; I said "No, I am sure I have
only been born once!" They shared with me from Romans about how we
are all sinners in the eyes of God, that Christ died for our sins,
and from John's Gospel that you MUST be born again, or you will NEVER
even see the Kingdom of God. I was born again that evening. I began a
process of carrying out Christian repentance in all the areas of my
life. I quit doing drugs and found out that my friends weren't my
friends if I wasn't going to do drugs or sell them acid anymore. I
have been a Christian for 21 years now, and I have never had cause to
complain about how God has treated me, even though my life has been
quite difficult. My darling wife of 16 years, the mother of my three
little ones, died of cancer in 2003. She never complained against
God, but instead she bore her suffering with a deep Christian faith
that would never waver. God has blessed me with the ability to retire
at age 43 to care for my children and myself. I have my own mission
field and it has already yielded a rich harvest! All three of my
little kids have been saved and we are a 100% Christian family,
filled with love. The suffering of their mother was great, but they
never accused God of evil; they also bore up with the burden placed
on their little shoulders in a quiet and graceful manner. Nothing in
this world could cause me to leave the Christian faith; God has
proven to me again and again that He is Wonderful and Holy beyond my
wildest imaginations! I hope that this testimony has taught you that
God can save anyone, no matter who they are or what they did. God
Bless You All! Bob<><

What a great witness for Jesus you are!

Thank you Bob! I will put this post on my website, of course!!!

Love and Peace to you,

::: vera :::


--
:::::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de ::::::::::
:::::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm ::::::::::

[:::vera:::]

Post by :::vera:::

Post by Bob
My name is Bob and I'm an American. My father was a preacher's kid,
born in the Amazon jungle in Brazil, on the mission field. He's a
retired aerospace engineer. He brought me up in the faith, but I was
still very unsure. I had been baptized as a baby in my Mother's
Methodist church, as well as confirmed and baptized in both a
Lutheran and a Presbyterian church. We moved around a lot. I wanted
to know if God really existed but I couldn't think of any way to
force Him to reveal Himself to me. I finally decided to think the
most horribly vile and wicked thoughts about Him that I could and
thought that would force Him to instantly kill me, and then, with my
dying breath I would know He was real. Well, that didn't work.
I got into a lot of trouble as I grew up, started drinking at 13,
doing drugs at 14, joined up with a biker gang at 15, ran away from
home at 16, sold drugs, and even ran two labs making LSD and hash
oil. I could concentrate a pound of marijuana into a one inch lump. I
was making as much money as my father who worked at a local NASA
facility. I was nearly caught by the Drug Enforcement Administration
in a federal investigation and fled the state for awhile at 16. I
joined a hippie commune in Tennessee in the Spring of 1977, but I
left after a few weeks when I found out that the leader was a
bigamist and a hypocrite. I had a near-fatal motorcycle accident
January 4, 1978 when I hit a parked car while speeding at 75mph.
While I was recuperating two of my friends were killed on motorcycles
and neither was breaking the law, as I had been. I had a real sense
that God had a plan for me. During my healing time, some Mormons came
to my door with their false gospel of sweetness and light. I joined
the Mormons then at 17 but when I found out that they are a
polytheistic non-Christian cult, I got out of there in a hurry. I
didn't know enough about Christians to become one, but I knew a fraud
when I saw it. The Mormons are probably the most deceitfully wicked
cult operating in the world today. They appear to be so holy, but the
Bible says: 2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful
workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 2 Cor 11:14 No
wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also
disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be
according to their deeds.
I firmly believe that this teaches us that the first place we are to
look for error, is in the pulpit.
I married a lapsed Roman Catholic multimillionaire coke freak when I
was 18 and kept on doing drugs, as did she til she became pregnant.
She was tricked into divorcing me by her mother, who wanted to take
her money and needed me out of the way to do it. They told her that I
just wanted her money, so to prove otherwise I never even hired a
lawyer or contested the divorce in any way; her parents died knowing
that I never took a dime from them or their daughter. I was a
divorced father at age 21. I studied Buddhism, Hinduism,
Transcendental Meditation, Hare-Krishna, Spiritism, Freemasonry,
Yoga, and so forth. I looked at everything. I went through the EST
cult training and for awhile I actually had powers which were
inexplicable. It was very frightening, and I finally quit. I was
seduced by two witches I met in a health-food store who told me they
could tell I was a powerful person. I cut off contact with them after
a short while, as I felt terribly uncomfortable with a lot of what
was going on. I became so despondent over the loss of my wife that I
became homicidal. I bought a gun and began carrying it everywhere. I
was just waiting for someone to get in my way, because I wanted to
kill. I was arrested on Ash Wednesday, 1982 after pulling it out and
threatening a man who jumped in front of my truck at an intersection.
I was convicted of "Aggravated Assault with a Deadly Weapon" and
"Illegally Carrying a Concealed Deadly Weapon", and given a year's
probation. I became even more infuriated, enraged, psychopathic
really, and hated my hometown so much that I wanted to destroy it. I
analyzed the situation of the city in relation to surrounding bodies
of water and realized that a carefully placed and well designed truck
bomb at the base of a large dike could cause the city to be exposed
to a river carrying 450,000 cubic feet of water per second. This
would submerge most of a city of 2,000,000 with about 30 feet of
water, covering three story buildings. It would kill thousands and
render the area permanently uninhabitable. I began looking around on
the black market for dynamite and found out that large charges used
in oil exploration were available; sticks of dynamite weighing 110
pounds each. It would flood the city within 27 hours. Fortunately,
shortly after I became fixated on this scheme, some pot-head friends
of mine who had moved away called me and said they'd heard my divorce
was final and they offered to let me move in with them to get away
from all my bad memories. I moved and set up a lab making LSD and
began selling it, and taking it every other day. I didn't work, I
just made my money selling drugs. I began to have visions when I was
truly stoned out of my mind, and they were always to the effect that
taking drugs was wrong, that my parents had told me the truth about
God when I was a kid, and that I needed to become a Christian ASAP.
This was not your typical acid trip! There was a mix-up with the
Department of Parole and Probation and I was forced after 6 months
to return back home. I still kept having these very vivid sobering
experiences with LSD and Mescaline. God also spoke to me clearly and
said, "You must go to the nearest Baptist church and do what they
tell you there." I had never been to a Baptist church. I began
looking around the area and found that one I passed on the way to
work was the nearest. I would stop by every day after work to find
out when their services were; it didn't say on the sign out front,
and I never went anywhere on Sundays. Every time that I stopped by
there would be 200 cars in the parking lot but not a soul in sight.
This really grabbed my attention. On June 14, 1983 I was late getting
home from work and I saw only two cars as I went by, with two men
talking between them. They told me they all carpooled into the city
from the church! I asked when the services were and they asked me if
I was a Christian, and I said "Yeah, I think so." So they asked me if
I had been saved, and I said I wasn't sure what they meant. Then they
asked if I had ever been born again; I said "No, I am sure I have
only been born once!" They shared with me from Romans about how we
are all sinners in the eyes of God, that Christ died for our sins,
and from John's Gospel that you MUST be born again, or you will NEVER
even see the Kingdom of God. I was born again that evening. I began a
process of carrying out Christian repentance in all the areas of my
life. I quit doing drugs and found out that my friends weren't my
friends if I wasn't going to do drugs or sell them acid anymore. I
have been a Christian for 21 years now, and I have never had cause to
complain about how God has treated me, even though my life has been
quite difficult. My darling wife of 16 years, the mother of my three
little ones, died of cancer in 2003. She never complained against
God, but instead she bore her suffering with a deep Christian faith
that would never waver. God has blessed me with the ability to retire
at age 43 to care for my children and myself. I have my own mission
field and it has already yielded a rich harvest! All three of my
little kids have been saved and we are a 100% Christian family,
filled with love. The suffering of their mother was great, but they
never accused God of evil; they also bore up with the burden placed
on their little shoulders in a quiet and graceful manner. Nothing in
this world could cause me to leave the Christian faith; God has
proven to me again and again that He is Wonderful and Holy beyond my
wildest imaginations! I hope that this testimony has taught you that
God can save anyone, no matter who they are or what they did. God
Bless You All! Bob<><

What a great witness for Jesus you are!
Thank you Bob! I will put this post on my website, of course!!!
Love and Peace to you,

God is really awesome!!!

I am so glad that He found you, Bob!!!

I have placed your testimony there on "Growing Deeper":

http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/testimonies.htm

I hope you like it there. :-)

Thanks again.

God's Bless,


::: vera :::
--
:::::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de ::::::::::
:::::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm ::::::::::

['enry VIII]

Post by Bob
My name is Bob and I'm an American. My father was a preacher's kid, born in
God Bless You All!
Bob<><

Bob you are an alcholic, drug dealer/addict and now a Christian,

Three strikes against you,

When you going back to jail where you belong?

'enry VIII

[JPF]

Post by Bob
My name is Bob and I'm an American. My father was a preacher's kid, born in
the Amazon jungle in Brazil, on the mission field. He's a retired aerospace
engineer. He brought me up in the faith, but I was still very unsure. I had
been baptized as a baby in my Mother's Methodist church, as well as
confirmed and baptized in both a Lutheran and a Presbyterian church. We
moved around a lot. I wanted to know if God really existed but I couldn't
think of any way to force Him to reveal Himself to me. I finally decided to
think the most horribly vile and wicked thoughts about Him that I could and
thought that would force Him to instantly kill me, and then, with my dying
breath I would know He was real.
Well, that didn't work.
I got into a lot of trouble as I grew up, started drinking at 13, doing
drugs at 14, joined up with a biker gang at 15, ran away from home at 16,
sold drugs, and even ran two labs making LSD and hash oil. I could
concentrate a pound of marijuana into a one inch lump. I was making as much
money as my father who worked at a local NASA facility. I was nearly caught
by the Drug Enforcement Administration in a federal investigation and fled
the state for awhile at 16. I joined a hippie commune in Tennessee in the
Spring of 1977, but I left after a few weeks when I found out that the
leader was a bigamist and a hypocrite. I had a near-fatal motorcycle
accident January 4, 1978 when I hit a parked car while speeding at 75mph.
While I was recuperating two of my friends were killed on motorcycles and
neither was breaking the law, as I had been. I had a real sense that God had
a plan for me. During my healing time, some Mormons came to my door with
their false gospel of sweetness and light. I joined the Mormons then at 17
but when I found out that they are a polytheistic non-Christian cult, I got
out of there in a hurry. I didn't know enough about Christians to become
one, but I knew a fraud when I saw it. The Mormons are probably the most
deceitfully wicked cult operating in the world today. They appear to be so
2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising
themselves as apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of
light.
2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise
themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to
their deeds.
I firmly believe that this teaches us that the first place we are to look
for error, is in the pulpit.
I married a lapsed Roman Catholic multimillionaire coke freak when I was 18
and kept on doing drugs, as did she til she became pregnant. She was tricked
into divorcing me by her mother, who wanted to take her money and needed me
out of the way to do it. They told her that I just wanted her money, so to
prove otherwise I never even hired a lawyer or contested the divorce in any
way; her parents died knowing that I never took a dime from them or their
daughter. I was a divorced father at age 21.
I studied Buddhism, Hinduism, Transcendental Meditation, Hare-Krishna,
Spiritism, Freemasonry, Yoga, and so forth. I looked at everything. I went
through the EST cult training and for awhile I actually had powers which
were inexplicable. It was very frightening, and I finally quit. I was
seduced by two witches I met in a health-food store who told me they could
tell I was a powerful person. I cut off contact with them after a short
while, as I felt terribly uncomfortable with a lot of what was going on.
I became so despondent over the loss of my wife that I became homicidal. I
bought a gun and began carrying it everywhere. I was just waiting for
someone to get in my way, because I wanted to kill. I was arrested on Ash
Wednesday, 1982 after pulling it out and threatening a man who jumped in
front of my truck at an intersection. I was convicted of "Aggravated Assault
with a Deadly Weapon" and "Illegally Carrying a Concealed Deadly Weapon",
and given a year's probation.
I became even more infuriated, enraged, psychopathic really, and hated my
hometown so much that I wanted to destroy it. I analyzed the situation of
the city in relation to surrounding bodies of water and realized that a
carefully placed and well designed truck bomb at the base of a large dike
could cause the city to be exposed to a river carrying 450,000 cubic feet of
water per second. This would submerge most of a city of 2,000,000 with about
30 feet of water, covering three story buildings. It would kill thousands
and render the area permanently uninhabitable. I began looking around on the
black market for dynamite and found out that large charges used in oil
exploration were available; sticks of dynamite weighing 110 pounds each. It
would flood the city within 27 hours.
Fortunately, shortly after I became fixated on this scheme, some pot-head
friends of mine who had moved away called me and said they'd heard my
divorce was final and they offered to let me move in with them to get away
from all my bad memories. I moved and set up a lab making LSD and began
selling it, and taking it every other day. I didn't work, I just made my
money selling drugs. I began to have visions when I was truly stoned out of
my mind, and they were always to the effect that taking drugs was wrong,
that my parents had told me the truth about God when I was a kid, and that I
needed to become a Christian ASAP. This was not your typical acid trip!
There was a mix-up with the Department of Parole and Probation and I was
forced after 6 months to return back home. I still kept having these very
vivid sobering experiences with LSD and Mescaline.
God also spoke to me clearly and said, "You must go to the nearest Baptist
church and do what they tell you there." I had never been to a Baptist
church. I began looking around the area and found that one I passed on the
way to work was the nearest. I would stop by every day after work to find
out when their services were; it didn't say on the sign out front, and I
never went anywhere on Sundays. Every time that I stopped by there would be
200 cars in the parking lot but not a soul in sight. This really grabbed my
attention.
On June 14, 1983 I was late getting home from work and I saw only two cars
as I went by, with two men talking between them. They told me they all
carpooled into the city from the church! I asked when the services were and
they asked me if I was a Christian, and I said "Yeah, I think so." So they
asked me if I had been saved, and I said I wasn't sure what they meant. Then
they asked if I had ever been born again; I said "No, I am sure I have only
been born once!" They shared with me from Romans about how we are all
sinners in the eyes of God, that Christ died for our sins, and from John's
Gospel that you MUST be born again, or you will NEVER even see the Kingdom
of God. I was born again that evening. I began a process of carrying out
Christian repentance in all the areas of my life. I quit doing drugs and
found out that my friends weren't my friends if I wasn't going to do drugs
or sell them acid anymore.
I have been a Christian for 21 years now, and I have never had cause to
complain about how God has treated me, even though my life has been quite
difficult. My darling wife of 16 years, the mother of my three little ones,
died of cancer in 2003. She never complained against God, but instead she
bore her suffering with a deep Christian faith that would never waver. God
has blessed me with the ability to retire at age 43 to care for my children
and myself. I have my own mission field and it has already yielded a rich
harvest! All three of my little kids have been saved and we are a 100%
Christian family, filled with love. The suffering of their mother was great,
but they never accused God of evil; they also bore up with the burden placed
on their little shoulders in a quiet and graceful manner.
Nothing in this world could cause me to leave the Christian faith; God has
proven to me again and again that He is Wonderful and Holy beyond my wildest
imaginations! I hope that this testimony has taught you that God can save
anyone, no matter who they are or what they did.
God Bless You All!
Bob<><

Bob, thank you for sharing your testimony. Parts brought tears to my eyes.
Our testimonies are the most powerful witness we have. No one can refute it
for it happened to us.
God bless you. :o)
Joy <><

[Griz]

A wonderful testimony Bob.
Thanks for sharing. It's a wonderful example of how God draws us unto Him
over time and has a voice that can cut through even the worst interference
the devil can throw at us.
And how our pasts, no matter how dark, are not a handicap to Him. Indeed,
in His hands, our greatest weaknesses become great strengths in proclaiming
the name of Jesus.

Yours in Christ,

Griz

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Post by Bob
My name is Bob and I'm an American. My father was a preacher's kid, born in
the Amazon jungle in Brazil, on the mission field. He's a retired aerospace
engineer. He brought me up in the faith, but I was still very unsure. I had
been baptized as a baby in my Mother's Methodist church, as well as
confirmed and baptized in both a Lutheran and a Presbyterian church. We
moved around a lot. I wanted to know if God really existed but I couldn't
think of any way to force Him to reveal Himself to me. I finally decided to
think the most horribly vile and wicked thoughts about Him that I could and
thought that would force Him to instantly kill me, and then, with my dying
breath I would know He was real.
Well, that didn't work.
I got into a lot of trouble as I grew up, started drinking at 13, doing
drugs at 14, joined up with a biker gang at 15, ran away from home at 16,
sold drugs, and even ran two labs making LSD and hash oil. I could
concentrate a pound of marijuana into a one inch lump. I was making as much
money as my father who worked at a local NASA facility. I was nearly caught
by the Drug Enforcement Administration in a federal investigation and fled
the state for awhile at 16. I joined a hippie commune in Tennessee in the
Spring of 1977, but I left after a few weeks when I found out that the
leader was a bigamist and a hypocrite. I had a near-fatal motorcycle
accident January 4, 1978 when I hit a parked car while speeding at 75mph.
While I was recuperating two of my friends were killed on motorcycles and
neither was breaking the law, as I had been. I had a real sense that God had
a plan for me. During my healing time, some Mormons came to my door with
their false gospel of sweetness and light. I joined the Mormons then at 17
but when I found out that they are a polytheistic non-Christian cult, I got
out of there in a hurry. I didn't know enough about Christians to become
one, but I knew a fraud when I saw it. The Mormons are probably the most
deceitfully wicked cult operating in the world today. They appear to be so
2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising
themselves as apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of
light.
2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise
themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to
their deeds.
I firmly believe that this teaches us that the first place we are to look
for error, is in the pulpit.
I married a lapsed Roman Catholic multimillionaire coke freak when I was 18
and kept on doing drugs, as did she til she became pregnant. She was tricked
into divorcing me by her mother, who wanted to take her money and needed me
out of the way to do it. They told her that I just wanted her money, so to
prove otherwise I never even hired a lawyer or contested the divorce in any
way; her parents died knowing that I never took a dime from them or their
daughter. I was a divorced father at age 21.
I studied Buddhism, Hinduism, Transcendental Meditation, Hare-Krishna,
Spiritism, Freemasonry, Yoga, and so forth. I looked at everything. I went
through the EST cult training and for awhile I actually had powers which
were inexplicable. It was very frightening, and I finally quit. I was
seduced by two witches I met in a health-food store who told me they could
tell I was a powerful person. I cut off contact with them after a short
while, as I felt terribly uncomfortable with a lot of what was going on.
I became so despondent over the loss of my wife that I became homicidal. I
bought a gun and began carrying it everywhere. I was just waiting for
someone to get in my way, because I wanted to kill. I was arrested on Ash
Wednesday, 1982 after pulling it out and threatening a man who jumped in
front of my truck at an intersection. I was convicted of "Aggravated Assault
with a Deadly Weapon" and "Illegally Carrying a Concealed Deadly Weapon",
and given a year's probation.
I became even more infuriated, enraged, psychopathic really, and hated my
hometown so much that I wanted to destroy it. I analyzed the situation of
the city in relation to surrounding bodies of water and realized that a
carefully placed and well designed truck bomb at the base of a large dike
could cause the city to be exposed to a river carrying 450,000 cubic feet of
water per second. This would submerge most of a city of 2,000,000 with about
30 feet of water, covering three story buildings. It would kill thousands
and render the area permanently uninhabitable. I began looking around on the
black market for dynamite and found out that large charges used in oil
exploration were available; sticks of dynamite weighing 110 pounds each. It
would flood the city within 27 hours.
Fortunately, shortly after I became fixated on this scheme, some pot-head
friends of mine who had moved away called me and said they'd heard my
divorce was final and they offered to let me move in with them to get away
from all my bad memories. I moved and set up a lab making LSD and began
selling it, and taking it every other day. I didn't work, I just made my
money selling drugs. I began to have visions when I was truly stoned out of
my mind, and they were always to the effect that taking drugs was wrong,
that my parents had told me the truth about God when I was a kid, and that I
needed to become a Christian ASAP. This was not your typical acid trip!
There was a mix-up with the Department of Parole and Probation and I was
forced after 6 months to return back home. I still kept having these very
vivid sobering experiences with LSD and Mescaline.
God also spoke to me clearly and said, "You must go to the nearest Baptist
church and do what they tell you there." I had never been to a Baptist
church. I began looking around the area and found that one I passed on the
way to work was the nearest. I would stop by every day after work to find
out when their services were; it didn't say on the sign out front, and I
never went anywhere on Sundays. Every time that I stopped by there would be
200 cars in the parking lot but not a soul in sight. This really grabbed my
attention.
On June 14, 1983 I was late getting home from work and I saw only two cars
as I went by, with two men talking between them. They told me they all
carpooled into the city from the church! I asked when the services were and
they asked me if I was a Christian, and I said "Yeah, I think so." So they
asked me if I had been saved, and I said I wasn't sure what they meant. Then
they asked if I had ever been born again; I said "No, I am sure I have only
been born once!" They shared with me from Romans about how we are all
sinners in the eyes of God, that Christ died for our sins, and from John's
Gospel that you MUST be born again, or you will NEVER even see the Kingdom
of God. I was born again that evening. I began a process of carrying out
Christian repentance in all the areas of my life. I quit doing drugs and
found out that my friends weren't my friends if I wasn't going to do drugs
or sell them acid anymore.
I have been a Christian for 21 years now, and I have never had cause to
complain about how God has treated me, even though my life has been quite
difficult. My darling wife of 16 years, the mother of my three little ones,
died of cancer in 2003. She never complained against God, but instead she
bore her suffering with a deep Christian faith that would never waver. God
has blessed me with the ability to retire at age 43 to care for my children
and myself. I have my own mission field and it has already yielded a rich
harvest! All three of my little kids have been saved and we are a 100%
Christian family, filled with love. The suffering of their mother was great,
but they never accused God of evil; they also bore up with the burden placed
on their little shoulders in a quiet and graceful manner.
Nothing in this world could cause me to leave the Christian faith; God has
proven to me again and again that He is Wonderful and Holy beyond my wildest
imaginations! I hope that this testimony has taught you that God can save
anyone, no matter who they are or what they did.
God Bless You All!
Bob<><

[:::vera:::]

Post by JPF

Post by Bob
My name is Bob and I'm an American. My father was a preacher's kid,
born in the Amazon jungle in Brazil, on the mission field. He's a
retired aerospace engineer. He brought me up in the faith, but I was
still very unsure. I had been baptized as a baby in my Mother's
Methodist church, as well as confirmed and baptized in both a
Lutheran and a Presbyterian church. We moved around a lot. I wanted
to know if God really existed but I couldn't think of any way to
force Him to reveal Himself to me. I finally decided to think the
most horribly vile and wicked thoughts about Him that I could and
thought that would force Him to instantly kill me, and then, with my
dying breath I would know He was real. Well, that didn't work.
I got into a lot of trouble as I grew up, started drinking at 13,
doing drugs at 14, joined up with a biker gang at 15, ran away from
home at 16, sold drugs, and even ran two labs making LSD and hash
oil. I could concentrate a pound of marijuana into a one inch lump.
I was making as much money as my father who worked at a local NASA
facility. I was nearly caught by the Drug Enforcement Administration
in a federal investigation and fled the state for awhile at 16. I
joined a hippie commune in Tennessee in the Spring of 1977, but I
left after a few weeks when I found out that the leader was a
bigamist and a hypocrite. I had a near-fatal motorcycle accident
January 4, 1978 when I hit a parked car while speeding at 75mph.
While I was recuperating two of my friends were killed on
motorcycles and neither was breaking the law, as I had been. I had a
real sense that God had a plan for me. During my healing time, some
Mormons came to my door with their false gospel of sweetness and
light. I joined the Mormons then at 17 but when I found out that
they are a polytheistic non-Christian cult, I got out of there in a
hurry. I didn't know enough about Christians to become one, but I
knew a fraud when I saw it. The Mormons are probably the most
deceitfully wicked cult operating in the world today. They appear to
be so holy, but the Bible says: 2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false
apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of
Christ. 2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as
an angel of light. 2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his
servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness,
whose end will be according to their deeds.
I firmly believe that this teaches us that the first place we are
to look for error, is in the pulpit.
I married a lapsed Roman Catholic multimillionaire coke freak when
I was 18 and kept on doing drugs, as did she til she became
pregnant. She was tricked into divorcing me by her mother, who
wanted to take her money and needed me out of the way to do it. They
told her that I just wanted her money, so to prove otherwise I never
even hired a lawyer or contested the divorce in any way; her parents
died knowing that I never took a dime from them or their daughter. I
was a divorced father at age 21. I studied Buddhism, Hinduism,
Transcendental Meditation, Hare-Krishna, Spiritism, Freemasonry,
Yoga, and so forth. I looked at everything. I went through the EST
cult training and for awhile I actually had powers which were
inexplicable. It was very frightening, and I finally quit. I was
seduced by two witches I met in a health-food store who told me they
could tell I was a powerful person. I cut off contact with them
after a short while, as I felt terribly uncomfortable with a lot of
what was going on. I became so despondent over the loss of my wife
that I became homicidal. I bought a gun and began carrying it
everywhere. I was just waiting for someone to get in my way, because
I wanted to kill. I was arrested on Ash Wednesday, 1982 after
pulling it out and threatening a man who jumped in front of my truck
at an intersection. I was convicted of "Aggravated Assault with a
Deadly Weapon" and "Illegally Carrying a Concealed Deadly Weapon",
and given a year's probation. I became even more infuriated,
enraged, psychopathic really, and hated my hometown so much that I
wanted to destroy it. I analyzed the situation of the city in
relation to surrounding bodies of water and realized that a
carefully placed and well designed truck bomb at the base of a large
dike could cause the city to be exposed to a river carrying 450,000
cubic feet of water per second. This would submerge most of a city
of 2,000,000 with about 30 feet of water, covering three story
buildings. It would kill thousands and render the area permanently
uninhabitable. I began looking around on the black market for
dynamite and found out that large charges used in oil exploration
were available; sticks of dynamite weighing 110 pounds each. It
would flood the city within 27 hours. Fortunately, shortly after I
became fixated on this scheme, some pot-head friends of mine who had
moved away called me and said they'd heard my divorce was final and
they offered to let me move in with them to get away from all my bad
memories. I moved and set up a lab making LSD and began selling it,
and taking it every other day. I didn't work, I just made my money
selling drugs. I began to have visions when I was truly stoned out
of my mind, and they were always to the effect that taking drugs was
wrong, that my parents had told me the truth about God when I was a
kid, and that I needed to become a Christian ASAP. This was not your
typical acid trip! There was a mix-up with the Department of Parole
and Probation and I was forced after 6 months to return back home. I
still kept having these very vivid sobering experiences with LSD and
Mescaline. God also spoke to me clearly and said, "You must go to
the nearest Baptist church and do what they tell you there." I had
never been to a Baptist church. I began looking around the area and
found that one I passed on the way to work was the nearest. I would
stop by every day after work to find out when their services were;
it didn't say on the sign out front, and I never went anywhere on
Sundays. Every time that I stopped by there would be 200 cars in the
parking lot but not a soul in sight. This really grabbed my
attention. On June 14, 1983 I was late getting home from work and I
saw only two cars as I went by, with two men talking between them.
They told me they all carpooled into the city from the church! I
asked when the services were and they asked me if I was a Christian,
and I said "Yeah, I think so." So they asked me if I had been saved,
and I said I wasn't sure what they meant. Then they asked if I had
ever been born again; I said "No, I am sure I have only been born
once!" They shared with me from Romans about how we are all sinners
in the eyes of God, that Christ died for our sins, and from John's
Gospel that you MUST be born again, or you will NEVER even see the
Kingdom of God. I was born again that evening. I began a process of
carrying out Christian repentance in all the areas of my life. I
quit doing drugs and found out that my friends weren't my friends if
I wasn't going to do drugs or sell them acid anymore. I have been a
Christian for 21 years now, and I have never had cause to complain
about how God has treated me, even though my life has been quite
difficult. My darling wife of 16 years, the mother of my three
little ones, died of cancer in 2003. She never complained against
God, but instead she bore her suffering with a deep Christian faith
that would never waver. God has blessed me with the ability to
retire at age 43 to care for my children and myself. I have my own
mission field and it has already yielded a rich harvest! All three
of my little kids have been saved and we are a 100% Christian
family, filled with love. The suffering of their mother was great,
but they never accused God of evil; they also bore up with the
burden placed on their little shoulders in a quiet and graceful
manner. Nothing in this world could cause me to leave the Christian
faith; God has proven to me again and again that He is Wonderful and
Holy beyond my wildest imaginations! I hope that this testimony has
taught you that God can save anyone, no matter who they are or what
they did. God Bless You All! Bob<><

Bob, thank you for sharing your testimony. Parts brought tears to my
eyes. Our testimonies are the most powerful witness we have. No one
can refute it for it happened to us.
God bless you. :o)
Joy <><

Yes, Joy, I had tears in my eyes as well. Our God is so awesome. What is best: God will never refer to all the sins from the past if
you gave Him your life. It is deleted for Him, all the bad things we may have done. He will not even take our sins of today into
account. We are His Saints. He works through us. That is a high responsibility, and it takes much courage. Bob has shown much
courage above. I admire him for that. Others had as well, and they were torn into the mud so much, like Fervent, Griz, TBC, me and
others. TBC has done the only right thing lately when posting his story here. That is great! I do highly respect people who stand up
for Jesus and give witness of what happened.

Love ya,

::: vera :::
--
:::::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de ::::::::::
:::::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm ::::::::::

Love...keeps no record of wrongs. Love...always hopes, always perseveres.
(1 Corinthians 13:4-7, NIV)

[Mark Tindall]

And how do we know, without any doubt, that Mike Warnke's
testimony /wasn't/ true?

He was exposed by Cornerstone as a fake.

from http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_index.htm

In 1992, Cornerstone magazine released a cover story (and the longest
article in its history) entitled "Selling Satan: The Tragic History of Mike
Warnke," a 24,000-word exposé of Mike Warnke, an alleged former Satanic high
priest and now a popular Christian comedian. Warnke's ministry spanned
nearly 20 years. Our article was a take-off on Warnke's first book, The
Satan Seller (Logos Publishing, 1972) in which Warnke claimed to have led
over 1,500 other Satanists near San Bernardino, California.

"Selling Satan" demonstrated that not only was Warnke's testimony
fraudulent, but that Warnke raised money for projects that never
materialized, was involved in serious immorality while in public ministy,
and that several figures in the contemporary Christian music industry knew
about the situation but failed to take biblical steps to resolve it.

Cornerstone took some flak from the Christian community for exposing a
popular Christian speaker whose testimony (however false) had been used to
bring a number of people to Christ.

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by Mark Tindall

And how do we know, without any doubt, that Mike Warnke's
testimony /wasn't/ true?

He was exposed by Cornerstone as a fake.
from http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_index.htm
In 1992, Cornerstone magazine released a cover story (and the longest
article in its history) entitled "Selling Satan: The Tragic History of Mike
Warnke," a 24,000-word exposé of Mike Warnke, an alleged former Satanic high
priest and now a popular Christian comedian. Warnke's ministry spanned
nearly 20 years. Our article was a take-off on Warnke's first book, The
Satan Seller (Logos Publishing, 1972) in which Warnke claimed to have led
over 1,500 other Satanists near San Bernardino, California.
"Selling Satan" demonstrated that not only was Warnke's testimony
fraudulent, but that Warnke raised money for projects that never
materialized, was involved in serious immorality while in public ministy,
and that several figures in the contemporary Christian music industry knew
about the situation but failed to take biblical steps to resolve it.
Cornerstone took some flak from the Christian community for exposing a
popular Christian speaker whose testimony (however false) had been used to
bring a number of people to Christ.

I read that article, as well as the disciplinary measures that were
taken against him, by a board of ministers serving in the capacity of
his accountability people (for lack of a better term on my part), and
have come to the conclusion: how do we KNOW, since we weren't THERE,
what really happened?

The fact of the matter is, Mike Warnke could very well have been
involved in a satanic cult of some kind. The fact of the matter is, that
Mike Warnke stumbled in his walk with the Lord during several phases of
his public ministry - and can you tell me of one man or woman who /has
never stumbled/ whether in public ministry or behind-the-scenes ministry?

Fact of the matter is, Mike Warnke has gone through disciplinary
procedures and has been restored. (SEE FAQs page on Mike's site:
http://www.mikewarnke.org/faqs.asp)

Peter denied Christ three times and was later restored. . .

. . .forgiveness.

God bless,

Feather

[Griz]

Post by Feather Forestwalker
Fact of the matter is, Mike Warnke has gone through disciplinary
http://www.mikewarnke.org/faqs.asp)

That Mike stumbled, was disciplined and restored, only adds to the value of
his testimony.

He's just a regular guy, stumbling, getting up, and trying again.
It's a process that anyone who's willing to be honest with themselves, can
relate to.

And that he would make the full accounting of what happened available on his
own website and would still be active in ministry 5 years later to a very
great response, is admirable.
Many people would have simply called it quits.


Yours in Christ,

Griz

An excerpt from Mike Warnke's Spiritual Tribunal Review (basically, a form
of Biblical accountability):

"1996 was a banner year for ministry. We were able to take the Gospel of
Christ to 27,331 persons in 124 congregatoins both here and in the United
Kingdom. We saw 4,202 decisions made, 238 being a first time acceptance of
Jesus as Saviour and Lord. Glory to God. . ." - Robert V. Hale, Spiritual
Advisory Board.

[Lawrence Meckan]

Post by Griz

Post by Feather Forestwalker
Fact of the matter is, Mike Warnke has gone through disciplinary
http://www.mikewarnke.org/faqs.asp)

That Mike stumbled, was disciplined and restored, only adds to the value of
his testimony.
He's just a regular guy, stumbling, getting up, and trying again.
It's a process that anyone who's willing to be honest with themselves, can
relate to.
And that he would make the full accounting of what happened available on his
own website and would still be active in ministry 5 years later to a very
great response, is admirable.
Many people would have simply called it quits.
Yours in Christ,
Griz
An excerpt from Mike Warnke's Spiritual Tribunal Review (basically, a form
"1996 was a banner year for ministry. We were able to take the Gospel of
Christ to 27,331 persons in 124 congregatoins both here and in the United
Kingdom. We saw 4,202 decisions made, 238 being a first time acceptance of
Jesus as Saviour and Lord. Glory to God. . ." - Robert V. Hale, Spiritual
Advisory Board.

238 out of 27331? That's an awfully small amount of people who have
never heard the Gospel before.

Was he ministering primarily to the Christian scene or what ?

lawrence

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by Lawrence Meckan

Post by Griz

Post by Feather Forestwalker
Fact of the matter is, Mike Warnke has gone through disciplinary
http://www.mikewarnke.org/faqs.asp)

That Mike stumbled, was disciplined and restored, only adds to the value of
his testimony.
He's just a regular guy, stumbling, getting up, and trying again.
It's a process that anyone who's willing to be honest with themselves, can
relate to.
And that he would make the full accounting of what happened available on his
own website and would still be active in ministry 5 years later to a very
great response, is admirable.
Many people would have simply called it quits.
Yours in Christ,
Griz
An excerpt from Mike Warnke's Spiritual Tribunal Review (basically, a form
"1996 was a banner year for ministry. We were able to take the Gospel of
Christ to 27,331 persons in 124 congregatoins both here and in the United
Kingdom. We saw 4,202 decisions made, 238 being a first time
acceptance of
Jesus as Saviour and Lord. Glory to God. . ." - Robert V. Hale, Spiritual
Advisory Board.

238 out of 27331? That's an awfully small amount of people who have
never heard the Gospel before.
Was he ministering primarily to the Christian scene or what ?
lawrence

When I used to see Mike a lot, primarily, it was Christians who came to
see him, with quite a few people coming forward at the end during his
altar calls to accept Christ as Savior, but nowhere near as many who
were left in the audience, praising the Lord. :)

Feather

[Griz]

Post by Lawrence Meckan
238 out of 27331? That's an awfully small amount of people who have
never heard the Gospel before.
Was he ministering primarily to the Christian scene or what ?
lawrence

That's kind of irrelevant Lawrence; and a little nit-picky.

Please remind us again how many brought to Salvation it takes to cause the
angels in heaven to celebrate? Does 238 not cut it?
And did Jesus leave the 99 safe in the fold, so he could seek out the 238
who were lost?

Or is one person saved, cause for celebration?

Yours in Christ,

Griz

[Lawrence Meckan]

Post by Griz

Post by Lawrence Meckan
238 out of 27331? That's an awfully small amount of people who have
never heard the Gospel before.
Was he ministering primarily to the Christian scene or what ?
lawrence

That's kind of irrelevant Lawrence; and a little nit-picky.
Please remind us again how many brought to Salvation it takes to cause the
angels in heaven to celebrate? Does 238 not cut it?
And did Jesus leave the 99 safe in the fold, so he could seek out the 238
who were lost?

All is cause for celebration. I have never said otherwise.

Post by Griz
Or is one person saved, cause for celebration?

All is cause for celebration.

I was just thinking because of his visible ministry, it would have been
directed towards the world, not towards Christians..

However, it seems, from what people are saying, that he primarily
ministered to the Church, not to the world..

lawrence

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by Lawrence Meckan

Post by Griz

Post by Lawrence Meckan
238 out of 27331? That's an awfully small amount of people who have
never heard the Gospel before.
Was he ministering primarily to the Christian scene or what ?
lawrence

That's kind of irrelevant Lawrence; and a little nit-picky.
Please remind us again how many brought to Salvation it takes to cause the
angels in heaven to celebrate? Does 238 not cut it?
And did Jesus leave the 99 safe in the fold, so he could seek out the 238
who were lost?

All is cause for celebration. I have never said otherwise.

Post by Griz
Or is one person saved, cause for celebration?

All is cause for celebration.
I was just thinking because of his visible ministry, it would have been
directed towards the world, not towards Christians..
However, it seems, from what people are saying, that he primarily
ministered to the Church, not to the world..
lawrence

A lot of the people saved at the public presentations / performances
that I witnessed in the 1980s were friends of Christians as well as the
curious. . .and, in some cases, those who were coming out of the occult.

God bless,

Feather

[Griz]

Post by Feather Forestwalker
A lot of the people saved at the public presentations / performances
that I witnessed in the 1980s were friends of Christians as well as the
curious. . .and, in some cases, those who were coming out of the occult.
God bless,
Feather

Hi Feather.

I think the point is that depending upon the Spirit that is abundant in our
hearts, we will either look at what a person offers unto the Lord and see
His great working through them -- or we see where they stumble and will try
to demean and belittle what has been offered up by them, or try to explain
how we could have done better in their place.

I'm not sure about others, but I would consider 238 people making a
first-time decision to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour, a good
year's work! Plus looking at the figures for those who already knew Christ
but were re-energized by Mike's ministry, I wonder how many people were
reached for the first time by them?

I don't think any of us is in a position to belittle a ministry that is
accomplishing so much compared to many of us! (To match Mike Warnke
Ministries, you would have to lead at least one person to a decision for
Christ each and every single day)

Yours in Christ,

Griz

[Rowland Croucher]

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by Lawrence Meckan

Post by Griz

Post by Lawrence Meckan
238 out of 27331? That's an awfully small amount of people who have
never heard the Gospel before.
Was he ministering primarily to the Christian scene or what ?
lawrence

That's kind of irrelevant Lawrence; and a little nit-picky.
Please remind us again how many brought to Salvation it takes to cause the
angels in heaven to celebrate? Does 238 not cut it?
And did Jesus leave the 99 safe in the fold, so he could seek out the 238
who were lost?

All is cause for celebration. I have never said otherwise.

Post by Griz
Or is one person saved, cause for celebration?

All is cause for celebration.
I was just thinking because of his visible ministry, it would have been
directed towards the world, not towards Christians..
However, it seems, from what people are saying, that he primarily
ministered to the Church, not to the world..
lawrence

A lot of the people saved at the public presentations / performances
that I witnessed in the 1980s were friends of Christians as well as the
curious. . .and, in some cases, those who were coming out of the occult.
God bless,
Feather

True

I don't know a 'mass-evangelist' who 'ministered to the world' as distinct
from the 'church'.

Billy Graham Crusade statistics also bear that out

[Griz]

Post by Rowland Croucher
True
I don't know a 'mass-evangelist' who 'ministered to the world' as distinct
from the 'church'.
Billy Graham Crusade statistics also bear that out
--
Shalom!
Rowland Croucher

I think it is silly to expect or presume there would be some form of
'spiritual bouncers' at the doors of the various venues Mike plays in,
sifting 'world' from 'church' and trying to 'monkey the mix'.

As with any public event, the speaker ministers to whatever audience
attends. And God's Spirit speaks to those whom He draws to such events --
whether people making a first-time commitment, to those who receive a seed
planted in their hearts, or those who have strayed off the narrow path.

Yours in Christ,

Griz

[Abby]

Post by Griz

Post by Rowland Croucher
True
I don't know a 'mass-evangelist' who 'ministered to the world' as distinct
from the 'church'.
Billy Graham Crusade statistics also bear that out
--
Shalom!
Rowland Croucher

I think it is silly to expect or presume there would be some form of
'spiritual bouncers' at the doors of the various venues Mike plays in,
sifting 'world' from 'church' and trying to 'monkey the mix'.
As with any public event, the speaker ministers to whatever audience
attends. And God's Spirit speaks to those whom He draws to such events --
whether people making a first-time commitment, to those who receive a seed
planted in their hearts, or those who have strayed off the narrow path.
Yours in Christ,
Griz

Griz, a few years back Warnke confessed to being a fake. Has something
happened since then?

Abbs

[Mark Tindall]

Griz, a few years back Warnke confessed to being a fake. Has >something

happened since then?

If Vera's clone had not plonked so many people she would know about the
thread on this issue.

Silly little Trew Kristyun!

[Griz]

Post by Abby
Griz, a few years back Warnke confessed to being a fake. Has something
happened since then?
Abbs

Hi Abby.

He submitted himself to a Tribunal Board Hearing of Christian ministers and
my understanding was that together they cleared that up and he is back
ministering and bringing glory to God's name.

http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp

Yours in Christ,

Griz

[Mike Bugal]

Post by Griz

Post by Abby
Griz, a few years back Warnke confessed to being a fake. Has something
happened since then?
Abbs

Hi Abby.
He submitted himself to a Tribunal Board Hearing of Christian ministers and
my understanding was that together they cleared that up and he is back
ministering and bringing glory to God's name.
http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp

Here is a copy of the original article from Cornerstone magazine that brought
the lie that is Mike Warnke's testimony to public light.

http://www.answers.org/Satan/warnke1.html

Compare what you read in it to the "Findings and Recommendations" that you'll
read on Warnke's site and one phrase will come to mind: SNOW JOB!! At no point
does the latter say one word about the phony "Satanist high priest and drug
dealer" story that Warnke has told for years... it merely refers to "certain
exaggerations". Plus if you go to Warnke's main site you'll see right away that
he still advertises himself in that way: http://www.mikewarnke.org/

The false "shepherd" once again encourages people to "...give heed to seducing
spirits, and doctrines of devils;" (1 Tim. 4:1). It's no wonder that he and
those he influences "speak lies in hypocrisy" and seem to "have their conscience
seared with a hot iron" for that follows on from that as surely as night follows
day (1 Tim. 4:2) The Truth is that Mike Warnke has no more biblically repented
of his lies than the false "shepherd" and his sycophants have of theirs. Small
wonder he recommends Warnke!

His and Yours,

Mike Bugal
Heartland Christian Ministries
http://www.hcm2.org

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by Mike Bugal

Post by Griz

Post by Abby
Griz, a few years back Warnke confessed to being a fake. Has something
happened since then?
Abbs

Hi Abby.
He submitted himself to a Tribunal Board Hearing of Christian ministers and
my understanding was that together they cleared that up and he is back
ministering and bringing glory to God's name.
http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp

Here is a copy of the original article from Cornerstone magazine that brought
the lie that is Mike Warnke's testimony to public light.
http://www.answers.org/Satan/warnke1.html
Compare what you read in it to the "Findings and Recommendations" that you'll
read on Warnke's site and one phrase will come to mind: SNOW JOB!! At no point
does the latter say one word about the phony "Satanist high priest and drug
dealer" story that Warnke has told for years... it merely refers to "certain
exaggerations". Plus if you go to Warnke's main site you'll see right away that
he still advertises himself in that way: http://www.mikewarnke.org/
The false "shepherd" once again encourages people to "...give heed to seducing
spirits, and doctrines of devils;" (1 Tim. 4:1). It's no wonder that he and
those he influences "speak lies in hypocrisy" and seem to "have their conscience
seared with a hot iron" for that follows on from that as surely as night follows
day (1 Tim. 4:2) The Truth is that Mike Warnke has no more biblically repented
of his lies than the false "shepherd" and his sycophants have of theirs. Small
wonder he recommends Warnke!
His and Yours,
Mike Bugal
Heartland Christian Ministries
http://www.hcm2.org

Philippians 1:

15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others
out of goodwill.

16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of
the gospel.

17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely,
supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.

18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way,
whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this
I rejoice.

Jesus Christ is being preached by Mike Warnke Ministries; always has been,
Mike.

Have you ever attended one of his ministry presentations? Just curious,
because the Lord used him in a mighty way to minister to my heart when I was
a bit shaky in my new-found faith back in the 80s. Why? Because of what I
came out of. The Lord delivered me, washed me in His Blood. Could He not do
the same for Mike Warnke?

God bless,

Feather



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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.701 / Virus Database: 458 - Release Date: 6/8/2004

[Mike Bugal]

Post by Bob

Post by Mike Bugal

Post by Griz

Post by Abby
Griz, a few years back Warnke confessed to being a fake. Has something
happened since then?
Abbs

Hi Abby.
He submitted himself to a Tribunal Board Hearing of Christian ministers

and

Post by Mike Bugal

Post by Griz
my understanding was that together they cleared that up and he is back
ministering and bringing glory to God's name.
http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp

Here is a copy of the original article from Cornerstone magazine that

brought

Post by Mike Bugal
the lie that is Mike Warnke's testimony to public light.
http://www.answers.org/Satan/warnke1.html
Compare what you read in it to the "Findings and Recommendations" that

you'll

Post by Mike Bugal
read on Warnke's site and one phrase will come to mind: SNOW JOB!! At no

point

Post by Mike Bugal
does the latter say one word about the phony "Satanist high priest and

drug

Post by Mike Bugal
dealer" story that Warnke has told for years... it merely refers to

"certain

Post by Mike Bugal
exaggerations". Plus if you go to Warnke's main site you'll see right away

that

Post by Mike Bugal
he still advertises himself in that way: http://www.mikewarnke.org/
The false "shepherd" once again encourages people to "...give heed to

seducing

Post by Mike Bugal
spirits, and doctrines of devils;" (1 Tim. 4:1). It's no wonder that he

and

Post by Mike Bugal
those he influences "speak lies in hypocrisy" and seem to "have their

conscience

Post by Mike Bugal
seared with a hot iron" for that follows on from that as surely as night

follows

Post by Mike Bugal
day (1 Tim. 4:2) The Truth is that Mike Warnke has no more biblically

repented

Post by Mike Bugal
of his lies than the false "shepherd" and his sycophants have of theirs.

Small

Post by Mike Bugal
wonder he recommends Warnke!
His and Yours,
Mike Bugal
Heartland Christian Ministries
http://www.hcm2.org

15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others
out of goodwill.
16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of
the gospel.
17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely,
supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.
18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way,
whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this
I rejoice.
Jesus Christ is being preached by Mike Warnke Ministries; always has been,
Mike.
Have you ever attended one of his ministry presentations? Just curious,
because the Lord used him in a mighty way to minister to my heart when I was
a bit shaky in my new-found faith back in the 80s. Why? Because of what I
came out of. The Lord delivered me, washed me in His Blood. Could He not do
the same for Mike Warnke?

Have you read both website, Feather? Have you seen the evidence presented that
Mike Warnke's testimony contains substantial lies? Have you joined the camp that
say that God was only kidding when He said, "Be ye holy, for I am holy"? The
ministering to your soul was done by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God... so
in your mind that condones Mike Warnke's lies?

Yes, God can do the same for Mike... *if* he will repent and do restitution. But
here we are so many years after his "Satanist high priest and drug dealer" story
was shown to be a sham and he still has it front and center on his website. That
is not repentance. God help this Laodicean church age who thinks that sin
doesn't matter in those they place on a pedestal!

His and Yours,

Mike Bugal
Heartland Christian Ministries
http://www.hcm2.org

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by Mike Bugal

Post by Bob

Post by Mike Bugal

Post by Griz

Post by Abby
Griz, a few years back Warnke confessed to being a fake. Has something
happened since then?
Abbs

Hi Abby.
He submitted himself to a Tribunal Board Hearing of Christian ministers

and

Post by Mike Bugal

Post by Griz
my understanding was that together they cleared that up and he is back
ministering and bringing glory to God's name.
http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp

Here is a copy of the original article from Cornerstone magazine that

brought

Post by Mike Bugal
the lie that is Mike Warnke's testimony to public light.
http://www.answers.org/Satan/warnke1.html
Compare what you read in it to the "Findings and Recommendations" that

you'll

Post by Mike Bugal
read on Warnke's site and one phrase will come to mind: SNOW JOB!! At no

point

Post by Mike Bugal
does the latter say one word about the phony "Satanist high priest and

drug

Post by Mike Bugal
dealer" story that Warnke has told for years... it merely refers to

"certain

Post by Mike Bugal
exaggerations". Plus if you go to Warnke's main site you'll see right away

that

Post by Mike Bugal
he still advertises himself in that way: http://www.mikewarnke.org/
The false "shepherd" once again encourages people to "...give heed to

seducing

Post by Mike Bugal
spirits, and doctrines of devils;" (1 Tim. 4:1). It's no wonder that he

and

Post by Mike Bugal
those he influences "speak lies in hypocrisy" and seem to "have their

conscience

Post by Mike Bugal
seared with a hot iron" for that follows on from that as surely as night

follows

Post by Mike Bugal
day (1 Tim. 4:2) The Truth is that Mike Warnke has no more biblically

repented

Post by Mike Bugal
of his lies than the false "shepherd" and his sycophants have of theirs.

Small

Post by Mike Bugal
wonder he recommends Warnke!
His and Yours,
Mike Bugal
Heartland Christian Ministries
http://www.hcm2.org

15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others
out of goodwill.
16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of
the gospel.
17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely,
supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.
18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way,
whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this
I rejoice.
Jesus Christ is being preached by Mike Warnke Ministries; always has been,
Mike.
Have you ever attended one of his ministry presentations? Just curious,
because the Lord used him in a mighty way to minister to my heart when I was
a bit shaky in my new-found faith back in the 80s. Why? Because of what I
came out of. The Lord delivered me, washed me in His Blood. Could He not do
the same for Mike Warnke?

Have you read both website, Feather? Have you seen the evidence presented that
Mike Warnke's testimony contains substantial lies? Have you joined the camp that
say that God was only kidding when He said, "Be ye holy, for I am holy"? The
ministering to your soul was done by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God... so
in your mind that condones Mike Warnke's lies?
Yes, God can do the same for Mike... *if* he will repent and do restitution. But
here we are so many years after his "Satanist high priest and drug dealer" story
was shown to be a sham and he still has it front and center on his website. That
is not repentance. God help this Laodicean church age who thinks that sin
doesn't matter in those they place on a pedestal!
His and Yours,
Mike Bugal
Heartland Christian Ministries
http://www.hcm2.org

I never said that sin does not matter.

I do not believe for a second that those folks have ALL the evidence, for
Mike clearly states that he changed names and dates and the types of
occultic practices done, in order to protect the people involved, in order
to protect new Christians, etc and so forth.

I am not entirely convinced that this so-called "evidence" stands against
him in 100% accuracy, for if these people, who said they were there at the
times he cites were wrong about the /times/ he himself admitted to
/changing/, how can anyone know for sure what happened?

At any rate, if it smells of a snowjob to you, so be it. If he is guilty of
lying about his involvement with drug dealing and satanism, he will have to
stand before God with that lie if he hasn't repented before he dies. . .and
in the meantime, several people are brought to the throne of grace because
of this testimony, whether "from false motives or true," correct?

God bless,

Feather


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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[Mark Tindall]

Post by Griz

Post by Lawrence Meckan
Was he ministering primarily to the Christian scene or what ?

...

Post by Griz
Or is one person saved, cause for celebration?

Christians evangelising Christians is a silly act (though it is mainly
Christians who turn up to evangelisation events)

To evangelise nonChristians you have to have contact with nonChristians in
their world.

How many times have you dropped into your local New Age meeting to see if
you want become a New Ager ...but that's EXACTLY what some Christians think
will happen to nonChristians who will "miraculously" drop by their
evangelistic meeting to see if they want to become Christians.

Silly! Absolutely silly!


Yours in Christ,

MARK

[Eric Fisher]

i noticed this turned into a mike warnke thread.
i was involved in discussions at cornerstone festival when "selling
satan" was in the works or breaking out. i wonder if those who are
familiar with his ministry have ever seen a public confession and
apology? it sounds as if he never really admitted his fraudulance. its
tough to be forgiven of what you wont confess to.

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by Eric Fisher
i noticed this turned into a mike warnke thread.
i was involved in discussions at cornerstone festival when "selling
satan" was in the works or breaking out. i wonder if those who are
familiar with his ministry have ever seen a public confession and
apology? it sounds as if he never really admitted his fraudulance. its
tough to be forgiven of what you wont confess to.

Public confessions of his mismanagement of his ministry, as well as his
moral failures, can be found at his website.
http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp

I do not believe he was being fraudulent in his claims around his
experiences with Satanism. While he changed the names of those who were
involved, as well as some dates and actual ritual procedures, he tells
why on the site.

I am very careful about judging him only because I personally have seen
what satanism can do to people. . .

God bless,

Feather

[David Vestal]

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by Eric Fisher
i noticed this turned into a mike warnke thread.
i was involved in discussions at cornerstone festival when "selling
satan" was in the works or breaking out. i wonder if those who are
familiar with his ministry have ever seen a public confession and
apology? it sounds as if he never really admitted his fraudulance. its
tough to be forgiven of what you wont confess to.

Public confessions of his mismanagement of his ministry, as well as his
moral failures, can be found at his website.
http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp
I do not believe he was being fraudulent in his claims around his
experiences with Satanism. While he changed the names of those who were
involved, as well as some dates and actual ritual procedures, he tells
why on the site.
I am very careful about judging him only because I personally have seen
what satanism can do to people. . .
God bless,
Feather

Feather, as you know, religious scammers make a great deal of money off
of christians. They make it off of people with attitudes like the one
you're displaying: so loathe to "judge" that you're eager to overlook
obvious fraud. Mike Warnke is such a fraud; for decades, he's lived the
high life by telling lies of a satanistic life he never lived, and by
selling his "conversion" in exchange for the offerings of the gullible.
He saw a market for such a story, and he stepped up with a product. He's
been debunked as thoroughly as a liar can be debunked. Why cling to the
bankrupt hope that somehow, all the evidence is wrong, and he's actually
really christian? That sort of attitude is precisely the sort that lends
contemptible worms such as him a patina of legitimacy, enabling him to
keep fleecing the flock. I don't care about christianity, but I care
about ethically vacant parasites using a slick story to weasel money from
insufficiently vigilant people, and that's why I think you ought to
reconsider your somewhat naive eagerness to believe a story that any sort
of research would prove the lie of.

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by Eric Fisher
i noticed this turned into a mike warnke thread.
i was involved in discussions at cornerstone festival when "selling
satan" was in the works or breaking out. i wonder if those who are
familiar with his ministry have ever seen a public confession and
apology? it sounds as if he never really admitted his fraudulance. its
tough to be forgiven of what you wont confess to.

What I want to know is: Where is the proof that he was selling lies of
his involvement in satanism?? All I read in that article were
suppositions and claims made by one or two people who claimed they knew
him but were not there when he was involved in the secret rites he says
he was involved in.

That's all, and nothing more, which is why I want to be careful; no one
knows for sure.

God bless,

Feather

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker
Public confessions of his mismanagement of his ministry, as well as his
moral failures, can be found at his website.
http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp
I do not believe he was being fraudulent in his claims around his
experiences with Satanism. While he changed the names of those who were
involved, as well as some dates and actual ritual procedures, he tells
why on the site.
I am very careful about judging him only because I personally have seen
what satanism can do to people. . .
God bless,
Feather

Feather, as you know, religious scammers make a great deal of money off
of christians. They make it off of people with attitudes like the one
you're displaying: so loathe to "judge" that you're eager to overlook
obvious fraud. Mike Warnke is such a fraud; for decades, he's lived the
high life by telling lies of a satanistic life he never lived, and by
selling his "conversion" in exchange for the offerings of the gullible.
He saw a market for such a story, and he stepped up with a product. He's
been debunked as thoroughly as a liar can be debunked. Why cling to the
bankrupt hope that somehow, all the evidence is wrong, and he's actually
really christian? That sort of attitude is precisely the sort that lends
contemptible worms such as him a patina of legitimacy, enabling him to
keep fleecing the flock. I don't care about christianity, but I care
about ethically vacant parasites using a slick story to weasel money from
insufficiently vigilant people, and that's why I think you ought to
reconsider your somewhat naive eagerness to believe a story that any sort
of research would prove the lie of.

[Eric Fisher]

Feather posted:

...people who claimed they knew him but were not there when he was
involved in the secret rites he says he was involved in.
-----------------------
he was not there when he said he was either. thats the point.
///////////////////////////////////
feather continued:

... I want to be careful; no one knows for sure.
-------------------------
they know for sure, if they were with him in other places than where he
claimed to be at the time.

[David Vestal]

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by Eric Fisher
i noticed this turned into a mike warnke thread.
i was involved in discussions at cornerstone festival when "selling
satan" was in the works or breaking out. i wonder if those who are
familiar with his ministry have ever seen a public confession and
apology? it sounds as if he never really admitted his fraudulance.
its tough to be forgiven of what you wont confess to.

What I want to know is: Where is the proof that he was selling lies of
his involvement in satanism??
All I read in that article were
suppositions and claims

No, "testimony." The evidence given in interviews from those who knew
him at the time he was supposedly doing all this, with regard to his
typical activities and appearance, is not "suppositions."

Post by Feather Forestwalker
made by one or two people

Far, far more than one or two.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
who claimed they
knew him

For heaven's sake, one of them was MARRIED to him! What is this "CLAIMED
they knew him?"

Post by Feather Forestwalker
but were not there when he was involved in the secret rites
he says he was involved in.

But they were there when he said his appearance underwent dramatic
changes, like emaciation, rotting teeth, yellow skin, long hair, etc.,
and they all say it's bullshit. It would literally not be possible for
Warnke to have done what he said he did without them noticing, and they
say it's a lie. They were around him constantly, were intimately
familiar with his habits, and they dispute his story from start to
finish.

In addition, while Warnke might claim he's changed the dates, his story
doesn't even match up if you ASSUME that he changed the dates, because of
the relative dates to which he alludes in his story. This occurrence was
during college, he says. This was after this one. When the timeline is
put together, even if you fudge the specific dates, it still can't
possibly work. At the same place (cornerstone), there's a timeline based
on Warnke's revelations of relative dates that demonstrates this.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
That's all, and nothing more,

How much more do you need? You see, if you want to believe that the OT
has a Nazereth prophecy in the absence of evidence, that's one thing: you
believe it, and I'll disbelieve it, and no one is significantly the worse
for it. However, to prop up frauds like Warnke does a specific, tangible
harm to the world, in that it enables him to continue his swindling of
the gullible. That's why I have a much harder time accepting this
burying of your head in this case than I do in other cases; to bury your
head with regard to Warnke is to open the door for him to continue his
scam. You have significantly, mind-bogglingly UNDERstated the case
against him; the evidence is many times what you've admitted. But you're
so fixated on this "I can't judge him" idea that it compels you to
disregard an obvious liar. Think about the precedent in the bible
concerning those who pretended to be christians, but weren't; were they
judged? Hell YES, they were judged. What does the bible say about this
"I can't judge" claptrap? Paul says "What business is it of mine to
judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Feather, in this case you're not only wrong, but in my opinion you
actually have a DUTY to check the evidence and reconsider your opinion
carefully; people are tangibly, quantitatively harmed by scammers such as
this, people are incalculably disillusioned by them, they give your
religion a bad name, and they could not exist without a willingness to
look the other way such as what you currently exhibit.

I realize I'm giving you a much harder time than I normally do. No
offense is intended, and I hope none is taken. But I hope you realize
the absurdity or seeing a bushy wolf tail poking out from under a sheep
fleece, and keeping silent on the theory that it's a sin to point it out.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
which is why I want to be careful; no
one knows for sure.
God bless,
Feather

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker
Public confessions of his mismanagement of his ministry, as well as
his moral failures, can be found at his website.
http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp
I do not believe he was being fraudulent in his claims around his
experiences with Satanism. While he changed the names of those who
were involved, as well as some dates and actual ritual procedures, he
tells why on the site.
I am very careful about judging him only because I personally have
seen what satanism can do to people. . .
God bless,
Feather

Feather, as you know, religious scammers make a great deal of money
off of christians. They make it off of people with attitudes like
the one you're displaying: so loathe to "judge" that you're eager to
overlook obvious fraud. Mike Warnke is such a fraud; for decades,
he's lived the high life by telling lies of a satanistic life he
never lived, and by selling his "conversion" in exchange for the
offerings of the gullible. He saw a market for such a story, and he
stepped up with a product. He's been debunked as thoroughly as a
liar can be debunked. Why cling to the bankrupt hope that somehow,
all the evidence is wrong, and he's actually really christian? That
sort of attitude is precisely the sort that lends contemptible worms
such as him a patina of legitimacy, enabling him to keep fleecing the
flock. I don't care about christianity, but I care about ethically
vacant parasites using a slick story to weasel money from
insufficiently vigilant people, and that's why I think you ought to
reconsider your somewhat naive eagerness to believe a story that any
sort of research would prove the lie of.

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by Eric Fisher
i noticed this turned into a mike warnke thread.
i was involved in discussions at cornerstone festival when "selling
satan" was in the works or breaking out. i wonder if those who are
familiar with his ministry have ever seen a public confession and
apology? it sounds as if he never really admitted his fraudulance.
its tough to be forgiven of what you wont confess to.

What I want to know is: Where is the proof that he was selling lies of
his involvement in satanism??
All I read in that article were
suppositions and claims

No, "testimony." The evidence given in interviews from those who knew
him at the time he was supposedly doing all this, with regard to his
typical activities and appearance, is not "suppositions."

Post by Feather Forestwalker
made by one or two people

Far, far more than one or two.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
who claimed they
knew him

For heaven's sake, one of them was MARRIED to him! What is this "CLAIMED
they knew him?"

Post by Feather Forestwalker
but were not there when he was involved in the secret rites
he says he was involved in.

But they were there when he said his appearance underwent dramatic
changes, like emaciation, rotting teeth, yellow skin, long hair, etc.,
and they all say it's bullshit. It would literally not be possible for
Warnke to have done what he said he did without them noticing, and they
say it's a lie. They were around him constantly, were intimately
familiar with his habits, and they dispute his story from start to
finish.

His first wife, Sue, noticed these changes. . .

Post by David Vestal
In addition, while Warnke might claim he's changed the dates, his story
doesn't even match up if you ASSUME that he changed the dates, because of
the relative dates to which he alludes in his story. This occurrence was
during college, he says. This was after this one. When the timeline is
put together, even if you fudge the specific dates, it still can't
possibly work. At the same place (cornerstone), there's a timeline based
on Warnke's revelations of relative dates that demonstrates this.

Yeah. . .I saw that. OK, let's say that all these people (one of whom
was his wife), saw things that wouldn't have corrorborated his stories.
So? Does that mean it still didn't happen?

It doesn't matter to me if they did or did not happen. What matters to
me first and foremost is this man's ministry and the folks who were led
to Christ Jesus because of his ministry.

Philippians Chapter One comes to mind:

15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but
others out of goodwill.
16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense
of the gospel.
17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely,
supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.
18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way,
whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of
this I rejoice.

So, as Paul, I rejoice too. . . :)

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker
That's all, and nothing more,

How much more do you need? You see, if you want to believe that the OT
has a Nazereth prophecy in the absence of evidence, that's one thing: you
believe it, and I'll disbelieve it, and no one is significantly the worse
for it. However, to prop up frauds like Warnke does a specific, tangible
harm to the world, in that it enables him to continue his swindling of
the gullible. That's why I have a much harder time accepting this
burying of your head in this case than I do in other cases; to bury your
head with regard to Warnke is to open the door for him to continue his
scam. You have significantly, mind-bogglingly UNDERstated the case
against him; the evidence is many times what you've admitted. But you're
so fixated on this "I can't judge him" idea that it compels you to
disregard an obvious liar. Think about the precedent in the bible
concerning those who pretended to be christians, but weren't; were they
judged? Hell YES, they were judged. What does the bible say about this
"I can't judge" claptrap? Paul says "What business is it of mine to
judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Feather, in this case you're not only wrong, but in my opinion you
actually have a DUTY to check the evidence and reconsider your opinion
carefully; people are tangibly, quantitatively harmed by scammers such as
this, people are incalculably disillusioned by them, they give your
religion a bad name, and they could not exist without a willingness to
look the other way such as what you currently exhibit.

I understand your position in this David; now I have a question for you:
have you read the Hearings? http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp

Post by David Vestal
I realize I'm giving you a much harder time than I normally do. No
offense is intended, and I hope none is taken.

Not at all, David, not at all. In fact, I am glad you are "forcing my
hand," so to speak, because it will cause me to do several things:

Pray

search out more information

and Learn

And for that, I thank you!

In His Love,

Feather

[David Vestal]

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by Eric Fisher
i noticed this turned into a mike warnke thread.
i was involved in discussions at cornerstone festival when
"selling satan" was in the works or breaking out. i wonder if
those who are familiar with his ministry have ever seen a public
confession and apology? it sounds as if he never really admitted
his fraudulance. its tough to be forgiven of what you wont confess
to.

What I want to know is: Where is the proof that he was selling lies
of his involvement in satanism??
All I read in that article were
suppositions and claims

No, "testimony." The evidence given in interviews from those who
knew him at the time he was supposedly doing all this, with regard to
his typical activities and appearance, is not "suppositions."

Post by Feather Forestwalker
made by one or two people

Far, far more than one or two.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
who claimed they
knew him

For heaven's sake, one of them was MARRIED to him! What is this
"CLAIMED they knew him?"

Post by Feather Forestwalker
but were not there when he was involved in the secret rites
he says he was involved in.

But they were there when he said his appearance underwent dramatic
changes, like emaciation, rotting teeth, yellow skin, long hair,
etc., and they all say it's bullshit. It would literally not be
possible for Warnke to have done what he said he did without them
noticing, and they say it's a lie. They were around him constantly,
were intimately familiar with his habits, and they dispute his story
from start to finish.

His first wife, Sue, noticed these changes. . .

Where is her statement? Do you have a reference for that? Is her
testimony one of the affidavits that Warnke visited his old pals asking
them to sign, "confirming" his history?

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal
In addition, while Warnke might claim he's changed the dates, his
story doesn't even match up if you ASSUME that he changed the dates,
because of the relative dates to which he alludes in his story. This
occurrence was during college, he says. This was after this one.
When the timeline is put together, even if you fudge the specific
dates, it still can't possibly work. At the same place
(cornerstone), there's a timeline based on Warnke's revelations of
relative dates that demonstrates this.

Yeah. . .I saw that. OK, let's say that all these people (one of whom
was his wife), saw things that wouldn't have corrorborated his
stories. So? Does that mean it still didn't happen?

Again you're understating the case. They didn't merely fail to
corroborrate his story, they DISPUTED his story as having been untrue,
AND they were in a position to know. Furthermore, as is made clear at
http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/dates.htm, his story cannot
possibly be true as told, regardless of anyone's testimony; it is
inherently impossible.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
It doesn't matter to me if they did or did not happen.

If he says those events did happen, and it is made clear that they could
not have, then it SHOULD matter to you. Otherwise, you turn a blind eye
whilst a snake creeps into the congregation.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
What matters to
me first and foremost is this man's ministry and the folks who were
led to Christ Jesus because of his ministry.
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but
others out of goodwill.
16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the
defense of the gospel.
17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely,
supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.
18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way,
whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of
this I rejoice.
So, as Paul, I rejoice too. . . :)

I'm aware of this passage, but I'll point out a large distinction: the
persons to whom Paul referred were sincere christians, who merely envied
Paul the stature of his ministry. However, they were otherwise people of
integrity, and followers of christ. Warnke is a mere con artist, who
preaches just because it pays well. He's what a christian would think of
as a hireling. For that reason, the situations are not comparable.

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker
That's all, and nothing more,

How much more do you need? You see, if you want to believe that the
OT has a Nazereth prophecy in the absence of evidence, that's one
thing: you believe it, and I'll disbelieve it, and no one is
significantly the worse for it. However, to prop up frauds like
Warnke does a specific, tangible harm to the world, in that it
enables him to continue his swindling of the gullible. That's why I
have a much harder time accepting this burying of your head in this
case than I do in other cases; to bury your head with regard to
Warnke is to open the door for him to continue his scam. You have
significantly, mind-bogglingly UNDERstated the case against him; the
evidence is many times what you've admitted. But you're so fixated
on this "I can't judge him" idea that it compels you to disregard an
obvious liar. Think about the precedent in the bible concerning
those who pretended to be christians, but weren't; were they judged?
Hell YES, they were judged. What does the bible say about this "I
can't judge" claptrap? Paul says "What business is it of mine to
judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?"
Feather, in this case you're not only wrong, but in my opinion you
actually have a DUTY to check the evidence and reconsider your
opinion carefully; people are tangibly, quantitatively harmed by
scammers such as this, people are incalculably disillusioned by them,
they give your religion a bad name, and they could not exist without
a willingness to look the other way such as what you currently
exhibit.

I understand your position in this David; now I have a question for
you: have you read the Hearings?
http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp

I just now did. I skipped to the "findings and recommendations," where I
note several things. I note that Warnke himself appointed the
investigating committee, which rather reminds me of when Arnold
Schwarzenegger appointed a team to investigate whether the allegations of
groping directed against him were true. It's hard to escape thinking of
the fox guarding the henhouse. Nevertheless, the committee seems to have
made public some disturbing information. Note that they:
- recommended that Warnke's family be less involved in the decisionmaking
processes of his "ministry."
- stated that "an occasional casual attitude toward the administration of
ministry finances necessitates immediate attention."
- stated that Warnke's income and lifestyle were more commensurate with
the income and lifestyle of an entertainer than a christian minister. In
other words, he was living quite lavishly on the money he fleeced.
- stated that "certain exaggerated stories have raised questions
regarding Mike's integrity as a minister."

Mike's followup statement says "I confess to the existence of some
exaggeration and embellishment in my book "The Satan Seller..." And then
he explains it all away, making excuses for himself, and never stating
precisely WHAT was embellished. A good guess would be "the whole
thing," since so many details have been demonstrable lies. Furthermore,
even considering that Warnke's memory may have been fuzzy, he could
hardly have forgotten whether these events occurred before or after such
major life changes as his starting college and joining the navy. He
states, unequivocally, that the entire "satanism" story occurred after he
began college, and before he joined the navy. It is not possible that
all the events he related could have occurred within this 10-month span,
as is made clear in cornerstone's chronology.

The least Warnke could have done would have been to state WHAT was a lie.
Instead, he chose to admit to vage, non-specific "embellishments," which
is as weak and bankrupt an admission as could be made.

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal
I realize I'm giving you a much harder time than I normally do. No
offense is intended, and I hope none is taken.

Not at all, David, not at all. In fact, I am glad you are "forcing my
Pray
search out more information
and Learn
And for that, I thank you!

One final thought; you seem loathe to call Warnke a liar, but even more
so, you state that you believe him. Have you considered that in doing
so, you essentially assert that those who contradict Warnke's story are
themselves lying? Why call into question the integrity of a half-dozen
or so people to avoid questioning the integrity of a CONFESSED liar?

[Feather Forestwalker]

David Vestal wrote:

<snipped>

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker
His first wife, Sue, noticed these changes. . .

Where is her statement? Do you have a reference for that? Is her
testimony one of the affidavits that Warnke visited his old pals asking
them to sign, "confirming" his history?

On the Cornerstone website:
http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_response/csr0006a.htm

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal
In addition, while Warnke might claim he's changed the dates, his
story doesn't even match up if you ASSUME that he changed the dates,
because of the relative dates to which he alludes in his story. This
occurrence was during college, he says. This was after this one.
When the timeline is put together, even if you fudge the specific
dates, it still can't possibly work. At the same place
(cornerstone), there's a timeline based on Warnke's revelations of
relative dates that demonstrates this.

Yeah. . .I saw that. OK, let's say that all these people (one of whom
was his wife), saw things that wouldn't have corrorborated his
stories. So? Does that mean it still didn't happen?

Again you're understating the case. They didn't merely fail to
corroborrate his story, they DISPUTED his story as having been untrue,
AND they were in a position to know. Furthermore, as is made clear at
http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/dates.htm, his story cannot
possibly be true as told, regardless of anyone's testimony; it is
inherently impossible.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
It doesn't matter to me if they did or did not happen.

If he says those events did happen, and it is made clear that they could
not have, then it SHOULD matter to you. Otherwise, you turn a blind eye
whilst a snake creeps into the congregation.

http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_index.htm that site
has all the refutations as well as the critique article.

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker
What matters to
me first and foremost is this man's ministry and the folks who were
led to Christ Jesus because of his ministry.
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but
others out of goodwill.
16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the
defense of the gospel.
17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely,
supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.
18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way,
whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of
this I rejoice.
So, as Paul, I rejoice too. . . :)

I'm aware of this passage, but I'll point out a large distinction: the
persons to whom Paul referred were sincere christians, who merely envied
Paul the stature of his ministry. However, they were otherwise people of
integrity, and followers of christ. Warnke is a mere con artist, who
preaches just because it pays well. He's what a christian would think of
as a hireling. For that reason, the situations are not comparable.

No? He preached the gospel, didn't he? (Remember, I attended many of his
presentations and met him back stage back in the 1980s).

<snipped>

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker
I understand your position in this David; now I have a question for
you: have you read the Hearings?
http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp

I just now did. I skipped to the "findings and recommendations," where I
note several things. I note that Warnke himself appointed the
investigating committee, which rather reminds me of when Arnold
Schwarzenegger appointed a team to investigate whether the allegations of
groping directed against him were true. It's hard to escape thinking of
the fox guarding the henhouse. Nevertheless, the committee seems to have
- recommended that Warnke's family be less involved in the decisionmaking
processes of his "ministry."
- stated that "an occasional casual attitude toward the administration of
ministry finances necessitates immediate attention."
- stated that Warnke's income and lifestyle were more commensurate with
the income and lifestyle of an entertainer than a christian minister. In
other words, he was living quite lavishly on the money he fleeced.
- stated that "certain exaggerated stories have raised questions
regarding Mike's integrity as a minister."
Mike's followup statement says "I confess to the existence of some
exaggeration and embellishment in my book "The Satan Seller..." And then
he explains it all away, making excuses for himself, and never stating
precisely WHAT was embellished.

he does on the Cornerstone site:
http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_index.htm

As does the co-author:
http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_response/csr0001a.htm

Post by David Vestal
A good guess would be "the whole
thing," since so many details have been demonstrable lies. Furthermore,
even considering that Warnke's memory may have been fuzzy, he could
hardly have forgotten whether these events occurred before or after such
major life changes as his starting college and joining the navy. He
states, unequivocally, that the entire "satanism" story occurred after he
began college, and before he joined the navy. It is not possible that
all the events he related could have occurred within this 10-month span,
as is made clear in cornerstone's chronology.
The least Warnke could have done would have been to state WHAT was a lie.
Instead, he chose to admit to vage, non-specific "embellishments," which
is as weak and bankrupt an admission as could be made.

David Balsiger (co-author of the book) does:
http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_response/csr0001a.htm

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal
I realize I'm giving you a much harder time than I normally do. No
offense is intended, and I hope none is taken.

Not at all, David, not at all. In fact, I am glad you are "forcing my
Pray
search out more information
and Learn
And for that, I thank you!

One final thought; you seem loathe to call Warnke a liar, but even more
so, you state that you believe him. Have you considered that in doing
so, you essentially assert that those who contradict Warnke's story are
themselves lying? Why call into question the integrity of a half-dozen
or so people to avoid questioning the integrity of a CONFESSED liar?

Misunderstandings are not lies. Therefore I cannot call these detractors
to his claims "liars."

At any rate, have you met the man? Have you prayed with him? I have.

In His Love,

Feather

[David Vestal]

Post by Feather Forestwalker
<snipped>

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker
His first wife, Sue, noticed these changes. . .

Where is her statement? Do you have a reference for that? Is her
testimony one of the affidavits that Warnke visited his old pals
asking them to sign, "confirming" his history?

http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_response/csr0006a.
htm

Thank you. It's rather odd that she uses precisely the same verbiage to
describe the ONLY detail of Mike's story that she could corroborrate (his
physical appearance) as Mike himself uses. HE says "my penchant for
WEARING BLACK, wearing my HAIR LONGER, and my STRUNG OUT, DISSIPATED
appearance with an UNHEALTHY PALLOR was apparent." She says "He would
WEAR ALL BLACK at times, grew his HAIR LONGER and developed an
UNHEALTHY PALLOR. He looked STRUNG OUT, DISSIPATED..." The repetition
of these precise words, especially in the awkwardly-used and uncommon
"dissipated," spells collusion.

However, be that as it may; Sue and Mike CONTRADICT the army of
testifiers that Cornerstone has unearthed. One group is lying. Which is
lying? Well, Cornerstone's witnesses would have no discernible reason to
lie, having nothing to gain by it, while Mike Warnke has a definite
vested interest in his story, and gains profit thereby. Furthermore, he
has confessedly embellished details of it, which he will not identify.
Why on earth should anyone consider him the truthful one?

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal
In addition, while Warnke might claim he's changed the dates, his
story doesn't even match up if you ASSUME that he changed the dates,
because of the relative dates to which he alludes in his story.
This occurrence was during college, he says. This was after this
one. When the timeline is put together, even if you fudge the
specific dates, it still can't possibly work. At the same place
(cornerstone), there's a timeline based on Warnke's revelations of
relative dates that demonstrates this.

Yeah. . .I saw that. OK, let's say that all these people (one of whom
was his wife), saw things that wouldn't have corrorborated his
stories. So? Does that mean it still didn't happen?

Again you're understating the case. They didn't merely fail to
corroborrate his story, they DISPUTED his story as having been
untrue, AND they were in a position to know. Furthermore, as is made
clear at http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/dates.htm, his
story cannot possibly be true as told, regardless of anyone's
testimony; it is inherently impossible.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
It doesn't matter to me if they did or did not happen.

If he says those events did happen, and it is made clear that they
could not have, then it SHOULD matter to you. Otherwise, you turn a
blind eye whilst a snake creeps into the congregation.

http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_index.htm that
site has all the refutations as well as the critique article.

I know, but that's a non sequitur.

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker
What matters to
me first and foremost is this man's ministry and the folks who were
led to Christ Jesus because of his ministry.
15 It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but
others out of goodwill.
16 The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the
defense of the gospel.
17 The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely,
supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.
18 But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way,
whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because
of this I rejoice.
So, as Paul, I rejoice too. . . :)

the persons to whom Paul referred were sincere christians, who merely
envied Paul the stature of his ministry. However, they were
otherwise people of integrity, and followers of christ. Warnke is a
mere con artist, who preaches just because it pays well. He's what a
christian would think of as a hireling. For that reason, the
situations are not comparable.

No? He preached the gospel, didn't he? (Remember, I attended many of
his presentations and met him back stage back in the 1980s).

Yes, the situations are not comparable, for precisely the reason I gave.
A BETTER parallel might be the woman who was hired to follow Paul (Acts
16). She's a good example of someone who preached the truth, but was so
well-known to be of compromised character that her teaching was strongly
rebuffed by Paul, because it was an embarrassment to christianity.
Warnke is another example of a preacher whose character is completely and
publicly compromised, and an embarrassment to christianity.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
<snipped>

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker
I understand your position in this David; now I have a question for
you: have you read the Hearings?
http://www.mikewarnke.org/board_hearing.asp

I just now did. I skipped to the "findings and recommendations,"
where I note several things. I note that Warnke himself appointed
the investigating committee, which rather reminds me of when Arnold
Schwarzenegger appointed a team to investigate whether the
allegations of groping directed against him were true. It's hard to
escape thinking of the fox guarding the henhouse. Nevertheless, the
committee seems to have made public some disturbing information.
Note that they: - recommended that Warnke's family be less involved
in the decisionmaking processes of his "ministry."
- stated that "an occasional casual attitude toward the
administration of ministry finances necessitates immediate
attention." - stated that Warnke's income and lifestyle were more
commensurate with the income and lifestyle of an entertainer than a
christian minister. In other words, he was living quite lavishly on
the money he fleeced. - stated that "certain exaggerated stories have
raised questions regarding Mike's integrity as a minister."
Mike's followup statement says "I confess to the existence of some
exaggeration and embellishment in my book "The Satan Seller..." And
then he explains it all away, making excuses for himself, and never
stating precisely WHAT was embellished.

http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_index.htm

Oops. He admits that the variety of stories he's happened to tell about
his various academic achievements have been mostly lies. Now, firstly,
ask yourself how likely you are to forget what DEGREES you have earned,
especially to REPEATEDLY forget. Secondly, note that this lie alone, of
all the lies he's told, is the one that can OBJECTIVELY proven to be a
lie, even to his SUPPORTERS. In other words, there's no possible way
that that lie could stand up. So, he admitted the only thing he
absolutely had to admit while standing by his other lies, even though the
weight of evidence against them is fully as preponderant.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_response/csr0001a.
htm

No, he doesn't. He admits nothing specific.

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal
A good guess would be "the whole
thing," since so many details have been demonstrable lies.
Furthermore, even considering that Warnke's memory may have been
fuzzy, he could hardly have forgotten whether these events occurred
before or after such major life changes as his starting college and
joining the navy. He states, unequivocally, that the entire
"satanism" story occurred after he began college, and before he
joined the navy. It is not possible that all the events he related
could have occurred within this 10-month span, as is made clear in
cornerstone's chronology.
The least Warnke could have done would have been to state WHAT was a
lie. Instead, he chose to admit to vage, non-specific
"embellishments," which is as weak and bankrupt an admission as could
be made.

http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_response/csr0001a.
htm

No, he does NOT specify what was a lie. He takes refuge in generalities,
such as "we changed enough details to protect people's privacy and to
prevent any info on reproducing occultic rituals." This flaccid
nonconfession is an admission of precisely nothing.

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by David Vestal
I realize I'm giving you a much harder time than I normally do. No
offense is intended, and I hope none is taken.

Not at all, David, not at all. In fact, I am glad you are "forcing my
Pray
search out more information
and Learn
And for that, I thank you!

One final thought; you seem loathe to call Warnke a liar, but even
more so, you state that you believe him. Have you considered that in
doing so, you essentially assert that those who contradict Warnke's
story are themselves lying? Why call into question the integrity of
a half-dozen or so people to avoid questioning the integrity of a
CONFESSED liar?

Misunderstandings are not lies. Therefore I cannot call these
detractors to his claims "liars."
At any rate, have you met the man? Have you prayed with him? I have.

Ahhhh...Now I think I see the source of your preternatural reluctance to
admit that he's a mere con man; I believe that you think that to do so
would be a cheapening, perhaps to the point of embarrassment, of your
former interaction with him.

[Feather Forestwalker]

David Vestal wrote:
<snipped for relevance point>

Post by David Vestal

Post by Feather Forestwalker
At any rate, have you met the man? Have you prayed with him? I have.

Ahhhh...Now I think I see the source of your preternatural reluctance to
admit that he's a mere con man; I believe that you think that to do so
would be a cheapening, perhaps to the point of embarrassment, of your
former interaction with him.

Perhaps so, perhaps not. What matters to me is that, at the time, his
witness helped strengthen my own faith with regard to the things I had
been pulled out of by God's Holy Spirit. . .

. . .

Feather

[Matt]

Post by Bob
My name is Bob and I'm an American. My father was a preacher's kid, born in
the Amazon jungle in Brazil, on the mission field. He's a retired aerospace
engineer. He brought me up in the faith, but I was still very unsure. I had
been baptized as a baby in my Mother's Methodist church, as well as
confirmed and baptized in both a Lutheran and a Presbyterian church. We
moved around a lot. I wanted to know if God really existed but I couldn't
think of any way to force Him to reveal Himself to me. I finally decided to
think the most horribly vile and wicked thoughts about Him that I could and
thought that would force Him to instantly kill me, and then, with my dying
breath I would know He was real.
Well, that didn't work.
I got into a lot of trouble as I grew up, started drinking at 13, doing
drugs at 14, joined up with a biker gang at 15, ran away from home at 16,
sold drugs, and even ran two labs making LSD and hash oil. I could
concentrate a pound of marijuana into a one inch lump. I was making as much
money as my father who worked at a local NASA facility. I was nearly caught
by the Drug Enforcement Administration in a federal investigation and fled
the state for awhile at 16. I joined a hippie commune in Tennessee in the
Spring of 1977, but I left after a few weeks when I found out that the
leader was a bigamist and a hypocrite. I had a near-fatal motorcycle
accident January 4, 1978 when I hit a parked car while speeding at 75mph.
While I was recuperating two of my friends were killed on motorcycles and
neither was breaking the law, as I had been. I had a real sense that God had
a plan for me. During my healing time, some Mormons came to my door with
their false gospel of sweetness and light. I joined the Mormons then at 17
but when I found out that they are a polytheistic non-Christian cult, I got
out of there in a hurry. I didn't know enough about Christians to become
one, but I knew a fraud when I saw it. The Mormons are probably the most
deceitfully wicked cult operating in the world today. They appear to be so
2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising
themselves as apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of
light.
2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise
themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to
their deeds.
I firmly believe that this teaches us that the first place we are to look
for error, is in the pulpit.
I married a lapsed Roman Catholic multimillionaire coke freak when I was 18
and kept on doing drugs, as did she til she became pregnant. She was tricked
into divorcing me by her mother, who wanted to take her money and needed me
out of the way to do it. They told her that I just wanted her money, so to
prove otherwise I never even hired a lawyer or contested the divorce in any
way; her parents died knowing that I never took a dime from them or their
daughter. I was a divorced father at age 21.
I studied Buddhism, Hinduism, Transcendental Meditation, Hare-Krishna,
Spiritism, Freemasonry, Yoga, and so forth. I looked at everything. I went
through the EST cult training and for awhile I actually had powers which
were inexplicable. It was very frightening, and I finally quit. I was
seduced by two witches I met in a health-food store who told me they could
tell I was a powerful person. I cut off contact with them after a short
while, as I felt terribly uncomfortable with a lot of what was going on.
I became so despondent over the loss of my wife that I became homicidal. I
bought a gun and began carrying it everywhere. I was just waiting for
someone to get in my way, because I wanted to kill. I was arrested on Ash
Wednesday, 1982 after pulling it out and threatening a man who jumped in
front of my truck at an intersection. I was convicted of "Aggravated Assault
with a Deadly Weapon" and "Illegally Carrying a Concealed Deadly Weapon",
and given a year's probation.
I became even more infuriated, enraged, psychopathic really, and hated my
hometown so much that I wanted to destroy it. I analyzed the situation of
the city in relation to surrounding bodies of water and realized that a
carefully placed and well designed truck bomb at the base of a large dike
could cause the city to be exposed to a river carrying 450,000 cubic feet of
water per second. This would submerge most of a city of 2,000,000 with about
30 feet of water, covering three story buildings. It would kill thousands
and render the area permanently uninhabitable. I began looking around on the
black market for dynamite and found out that large charges used in oil
exploration were available; sticks of dynamite weighing 110 pounds each. It
would flood the city within 27 hours.
Fortunately, shortly after I became fixated on this scheme, some pot-head
friends of mine who had moved away called me and said they'd heard my
divorce was final and they offered to let me move in with them to get away
from all my bad memories. I moved and set up a lab making LSD and began
selling it, and taking it every other day. I didn't work, I just made my
money selling drugs. I began to have visions when I was truly stoned out of
my mind, and they were always to the effect that taking drugs was wrong,
that my parents had told me the truth about God when I was a kid, and that I
needed to become a Christian ASAP. This was not your typical acid trip!
There was a mix-up with the Department of Parole and Probation and I was
forced after 6 months to return back home. I still kept having these very
vivid sobering experiences with LSD and Mescaline.
God also spoke to me clearly and said, "You must go to the nearest Baptist
church and do what they tell you there." I had never been to a Baptist
church. I began looking around the area and found that one I passed on the
way to work was the nearest. I would stop by every day after work to find
out when their services were; it didn't say on the sign out front, and I
never went anywhere on Sundays. Every time that I stopped by there would be
200 cars in the parking lot but not a soul in sight. This really grabbed my
attention.
On June 14, 1983 I was late getting home from work and I saw only two cars
as I went by, with two men talking between them. They told me they all
carpooled into the city from the church! I asked when the services were and
they asked me if I was a Christian, and I said "Yeah, I think so." So they
asked me if I had been saved, and I said I wasn't sure what they meant. Then
they asked if I had ever been born again; I said "No, I am sure I have only
been born once!" They shared with me from Romans about how we are all
sinners in the eyes of God, that Christ died for our sins, and from John's
Gospel that you MUST be born again, or you will NEVER even see the Kingdom
of God. I was born again that evening. I began a process of carrying out
Christian repentance in all the areas of my life. I quit doing drugs and
found out that my friends weren't my friends if I wasn't going to do drugs
or sell them acid anymore.
I have been a Christian for 21 years now, and I have never had cause to
complain about how God has treated me, even though my life has been quite
difficult. My darling wife of 16 years, the mother of my three little ones,
died of cancer in 2003. She never complained against God, but instead she
bore her suffering with a deep Christian faith that would never waver. God
has blessed me with the ability to retire at age 43 to care for my children
and myself. I have my own mission field and it has already yielded a rich
harvest! All three of my little kids have been saved and we are a 100%
Christian family, filled with love. The suffering of their mother was great,
but they never accused God of evil; they also bore up with the burden placed
on their little shoulders in a quiet and graceful manner.
Nothing in this world could cause me to leave the Christian faith; God has
proven to me again and again that He is Wonderful and Holy beyond my wildest
imaginations! I hope that this testimony has taught you that God can save
anyone, no matter who they are or what they did.
God Bless You All!
Bob<><

Bob Thank you for writing this and giving permission for it to be
posted on the web site. It is very strong witness.

I found this to be so very good and so true "I hope that this
testimony has taught you that God can save anyone, no matter who they
are or what they did."

God Bless You

Matt

[Frank]

That is a great testimony Bob!
Thanks for having it put on the web!

God bless you,
Frank

Post by Bob
My name is Bob and I'm an American. My father was a preacher's kid, born in
the Amazon jungle in Brazil, on the mission field. He's a retired aerospace
engineer. He brought me up in the faith, but I was still very unsure. I had
been baptized as a baby in my Mother's Methodist church, as well as
confirmed and baptized in both a Lutheran and a Presbyterian church. We
moved around a lot. I wanted to know if God really existed but I couldn't
think of any way to force Him to reveal Himself to me. I finally decided to
think the most horribly vile and wicked thoughts about Him that I could and
thought that would force Him to instantly kill me, and then, with my dying
breath I would know He was real.
Well, that didn't work.
I got into a lot of trouble as I grew up, started drinking at 13, doing
drugs at 14, joined up with a biker gang at 15, ran away from home at 16,
sold drugs, and even ran two labs making LSD and hash oil. I could
concentrate a pound of marijuana into a one inch lump. I was making as much
money as my father who worked at a local NASA facility. I was nearly caught
by the Drug Enforcement Administration in a federal investigation and fled
the state for awhile at 16. I joined a hippie commune in Tennessee in the
Spring of 1977, but I left after a few weeks when I found out that the
leader was a bigamist and a hypocrite. I had a near-fatal motorcycle
accident January 4, 1978 when I hit a parked car while speeding at 75mph.
While I was recuperating two of my friends were killed on motorcycles and
neither was breaking the law, as I had been. I had a real sense that God had
a plan for me. During my healing time, some Mormons came to my door with
their false gospel of sweetness and light. I joined the Mormons then at 17
but when I found out that they are a polytheistic non-Christian cult, I got
out of there in a hurry. I didn't know enough about Christians to become
one, but I knew a fraud when I saw it. The Mormons are probably the most
deceitfully wicked cult operating in the world today. They appear to be so
2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising
themselves as apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of
light.
2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise
themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to
their deeds.
I firmly believe that this teaches us that the first place we are to look
for error, is in the pulpit.
I married a lapsed Roman Catholic multimillionaire coke freak when I was 18
and kept on doing drugs, as did she til she became pregnant. She was tricked
into divorcing me by her mother, who wanted to take her money and needed me
out of the way to do it. They told her that I just wanted her money, so to
prove otherwise I never even hired a lawyer or contested the divorce in any
way; her parents died knowing that I never took a dime from them or their
daughter. I was a divorced father at age 21.
I studied Buddhism, Hinduism, Transcendental Meditation, Hare-Krishna,
Spiritism, Freemasonry, Yoga, and so forth. I looked at everything. I went
through the EST cult training and for awhile I actually had powers which
were inexplicable. It was very frightening, and I finally quit. I was
seduced by two witches I met in a health-food store who told me they could
tell I was a powerful person. I cut off contact with them after a short
while, as I felt terribly uncomfortable with a lot of what was going on.
I became so despondent over the loss of my wife that I became homicidal. I
bought a gun and began carrying it everywhere. I was just waiting for
someone to get in my way, because I wanted to kill. I was arrested on Ash
Wednesday, 1982 after pulling it out and threatening a man who jumped in
front of my truck at an intersection. I was convicted of "Aggravated Assault
with a Deadly Weapon" and "Illegally Carrying a Concealed Deadly Weapon",
and given a year's probation.
I became even more infuriated, enraged, psychopathic really, and hated my
hometown so much that I wanted to destroy it. I analyzed the situation of
the city in relation to surrounding bodies of water and realized that a
carefully placed and well designed truck bomb at the base of a large dike
could cause the city to be exposed to a river carrying 450,000 cubic feet of
water per second. This would submerge most of a city of 2,000,000 with about
30 feet of water, covering three story buildings. It would kill thousands
and render the area permanently uninhabitable. I began looking around on the
black market for dynamite and found out that large charges used in oil
exploration were available; sticks of dynamite weighing 110 pounds each. It
would flood the city within 27 hours.
Fortunately, shortly after I became fixated on this scheme, some pot-head
friends of mine who had moved away called me and said they'd heard my
divorce was final and they offered to let me move in with them to get away
from all my bad memories. I moved and set up a lab making LSD and began
selling it, and taking it every other day. I didn't work, I just made my
money selling drugs. I began to have visions when I was truly stoned out of
my mind, and they were always to the effect that taking drugs was wrong,
that my parents had told me the truth about God when I was a kid, and that I
needed to become a Christian ASAP. This was not your typical acid trip!
There was a mix-up with the Department of Parole and Probation and I was
forced after 6 months to return back home. I still kept having these very
vivid sobering experiences with LSD and Mescaline.
God also spoke to me clearly and said, "You must go to the nearest Baptist
church and do what they tell you there." I had never been to a Baptist
church. I began looking around the area and found that one I passed on the
way to work was the nearest. I would stop by every day after work to find
out when their services were; it didn't say on the sign out front, and I
never went anywhere on Sundays. Every time that I stopped by there would be
200 cars in the parking lot but not a soul in sight. This really grabbed my
attention.
On June 14, 1983 I was late getting home from work and I saw only two cars
as I went by, with two men talking between them. They told me they all
carpooled into the city from the church! I asked when the services were and
they asked me if I was a Christian, and I said "Yeah, I think so." So they
asked me if I had been saved, and I said I wasn't sure what they meant. Then
they asked if I had ever been born again; I said "No, I am sure I have only
been born once!" They shared with me from Romans about how we are all
sinners in the eyes of God, that Christ died for our sins, and from John's
Gospel that you MUST be born again, or you will NEVER even see the Kingdom
of God. I was born again that evening. I began a process of carrying out
Christian repentance in all the areas of my life. I quit doing drugs and
found out that my friends weren't my friends if I wasn't going to do drugs
or sell them acid anymore.
I have been a Christian for 21 years now, and I have never had cause to
complain about how God has treated me, even though my life has been quite
difficult. My darling wife of 16 years, the mother of my three little ones,
died of cancer in 2003. She never complained against God, but instead she
bore her suffering with a deep Christian faith that would never waver. God
has blessed me with the ability to retire at age 43 to care for my children
and myself. I have my own mission field and it has already yielded a rich
harvest! All three of my little kids have been saved and we are a 100%
Christian family, filled with love. The suffering of their mother was great,
but they never accused God of evil; they also bore up with the burden placed
on their little shoulders in a quiet and graceful manner.
Nothing in this world could cause me to leave the Christian faith; God has
proven to me again and again that He is Wonderful and Holy beyond my wildest
imaginations! I hope that this testimony has taught you that God can save
anyone, no matter who they are or what they did.
God Bless You All!
Bob<><

[Ricky Laplante]

Hi Bob!

I really liked your testimony! God knows His children and has a time for
each of us!
God Bless you Bob, and thanks for sharing this with us!

Your brother in Christ,
Ricky Laplante

Post by Bob
My name is Bob and I'm an American. My father was a preacher's kid, born in
the Amazon jungle in Brazil, on the mission field. He's a retired aerospace
engineer. He brought me up in the faith, but I was still very unsure. I had
been baptized as a baby in my Mother's Methodist church, as well as
confirmed and baptized in both a Lutheran and a Presbyterian church. We
moved around a lot. I wanted to know if God really existed but I couldn't
think of any way to force Him to reveal Himself to me. I finally decided to
think the most horribly vile and wicked thoughts about Him that I could and
thought that would force Him to instantly kill me, and then, with my dying
breath I would know He was real.
Well, that didn't work.
I got into a lot of trouble as I grew up, started drinking at 13, doing
drugs at 14, joined up with a biker gang at 15, ran away from home at 16,
sold drugs, and even ran two labs making LSD and hash oil. I could
concentrate a pound of marijuana into a one inch lump. I was making as much
money as my father who worked at a local NASA facility. I was nearly caught
by the Drug Enforcement Administration in a federal investigation and fled
the state for awhile at 16. I joined a hippie commune in Tennessee in the
Spring of 1977, but I left after a few weeks when I found out that the
leader was a bigamist and a hypocrite. I had a near-fatal motorcycle
accident January 4, 1978 when I hit a parked car while speeding at 75mph.
While I was recuperating two of my friends were killed on motorcycles and
neither was breaking the law, as I had been. I had a real sense that God had
a plan for me. During my healing time, some Mormons came to my door with
their false gospel of sweetness and light. I joined the Mormons then at 17
but when I found out that they are a polytheistic non-Christian cult, I got
out of there in a hurry. I didn't know enough about Christians to become
one, but I knew a fraud when I saw it. The Mormons are probably the most
deceitfully wicked cult operating in the world today. They appear to be so
2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising
themselves as apostles of Christ.
2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of
light.
2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise
themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to
their deeds.
I firmly believe that this teaches us that the first place we are to look
for error, is in the pulpit.
I married a lapsed Roman Catholic multimillionaire coke freak when I was 18
and kept on doing drugs, as did she til she became pregnant. She was tricked
into divorcing me by her mother, who wanted to take her money and needed me
out of the way to do it. They told her that I just wanted her money, so to
prove otherwise I never even hired a lawyer or contested the divorce in any
way; her parents died knowing that I never took a dime from them or their
daughter. I was a divorced father at age 21.
I studied Buddhism, Hinduism, Transcendental Meditation, Hare-Krishna,
Spiritism, Freemasonry, Yoga, and so forth. I looked at everything. I went
through the EST cult training and for awhile I actually had powers which
were inexplicable. It was very frightening, and I finally quit. I was
seduced by two witches I met in a health-food store who told me they could
tell I was a powerful person. I cut off contact with them after a short
while, as I felt terribly uncomfortable with a lot of what was going on.
I became so despondent over the loss of my wife that I became homicidal. I
bought a gun and began carrying it everywhere. I was just waiting for
someone to get in my way, because I wanted to kill. I was arrested on Ash
Wednesday, 1982 after pulling it out and threatening a man who jumped in
front of my truck at an intersection. I was convicted of "Aggravated Assault
with a Deadly Weapon" and "Illegally Carrying a Concealed Deadly Weapon",
and given a year's probation.
I became even more infuriated, enraged, psychopathic really, and hated my
hometown so much that I wanted to destroy it. I analyzed the situation of
the city in relation to surrounding bodies of water and realized that a
carefully placed and well designed truck bomb at the base of a large dike
could cause the city to be exposed to a river carrying 450,000 cubic feet of
water per second. This would submerge most of a city of 2,000,000 with about
30 feet of water, covering three story buildings. It would kill thousands
and render the area permanently uninhabitable. I began looking around on the
black market for dynamite and found out that large charges used in oil
exploration were available; sticks of dynamite weighing 110 pounds each. It
would flood the city within 27 hours.
Fortunately, shortly after I became fixated on this scheme, some pot-head
friends of mine who had moved away called me and said they'd heard my
divorce was final and they offered to let me move in with them to get away
from all my bad memories. I moved and set up a lab making LSD and began
selling it, and taking it every other day. I didn't work, I just made my
money selling drugs. I began to have visions when I was truly stoned out of
my mind, and they were always to the effect that taking drugs was wrong,
that my parents had told me the truth about God when I was a kid, and that I
needed to become a Christian ASAP. This was not your typical acid trip!
There was a mix-up with the Department of Parole and Probation and I was
forced after 6 months to return back home. I still kept having these very
vivid sobering experiences with LSD and Mescaline.
God also spoke to me clearly and said, "You must go to the nearest Baptist
church and do what they tell you there." I had never been to a Baptist
church. I began looking around the area and found that one I passed on the
way to work was the nearest. I would stop by every day after work to find
out when their services were; it didn't say on the sign out front, and I
never went anywhere on Sundays. Every time that I stopped by there would be
200 cars in the parking lot but not a soul in sight. This really grabbed my
attention.
On June 14, 1983 I was late getting home from work and I saw only two cars
as I went by, with two men talking between them. They told me they all
carpooled into the city from the church! I asked when the services were and
they asked me if I was a Christian, and I said "Yeah, I think so." So they
asked me if I had been saved, and I said I wasn't sure what they meant. Then
they asked if I had ever been born again; I said "No, I am sure I have only
been born once!" They shared with me from Romans about how we are all
sinners in the eyes of God, that Christ died for our sins, and from John's
Gospel that you MUST be born again, or you will NEVER even see the Kingdom
of God. I was born again that evening. I began a process of carrying out
Christian repentance in all the areas of my life. I quit doing drugs and
found out that my friends weren't my friends if I wasn't going to do drugs
or sell them acid anymore.
I have been a Christian for 21 years now, and I have never had cause to
complain about how God has treated me, even though my life has been quite
difficult. My darling wife of 16 years, the mother of my three little ones,
died of cancer in 2003. She never complained against God, but instead she
bore her suffering with a deep Christian faith that would never waver. God
has blessed me with the ability to retire at age 43 to care for my children
and myself. I have my own mission field and it has already yielded a rich
harvest! All three of my little kids have been saved and we are a 100%
Christian family, filled with love. The suffering of their mother was great,
but they never accused God of evil; they also bore up with the burden placed
on their little shoulders in a quiet and graceful manner.
Nothing in this world could cause me to leave the Christian faith; God has
proven to me again and again that He is Wonderful and Holy beyond my wildest
imaginations! I hope that this testimony has taught you that God can save
anyone, no matter who they are or what they did.
God Bless You All!
Bob<><

[Rowland Croucher]

Post by Bob
My name is Bob and I'm an American.

<>
Bob: can I put your most interesting testimony on our website as well - or
do you have to be a womanwithawebsite to qualify :-)?