OT power suppliers going bust

[Peter Johnson]

Utility Point has collapsed today, following PFP Energy and MoneyPlus
Energy. It seems that with the price of power, particularly
electricity, increasing rapidly they can't get the money in quickly
enough to pay for the power their customers are consuming when it is
due. The email from UP forecasts that more will follow soon.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today

bugger, I'm with them ... no doubt the advice is not to try and move
until ofgem find a stand-in, still they're relatively cheap until then

[alan_m]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today

bugger, I'm with them ... no doubt the advice is not to try and move
until ofgem find a stand-in, still they're relatively cheap until then

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2021/09/utility-point-ceases-trading---here-s-everything-you-need-to-kno/

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

Post by alan_m

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today

bugger, I'm with them ... no doubt the advice is not to try and move until
ofgem find a stand-in, still they're relatively cheap until then

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2021/09/utility-point-ceases-trading---here-s-everything-you-need-to-kno/

I am not affected, just curious - It doesn't explain whether in the
interim, whether you will be on the contracted rate agreed with the
company which went bust, or some new temporary rate.

[alan_m]

Post by Harry Bloomfield, Esq.

Post by alan_m

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today

bugger, I'm with them ... no doubt the advice is not to try and move
until ofgem find a stand-in, still they're relatively cheap until then

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2021/09/utility-point-ceases-trading---here-s-everything-you-need-to-kno/

I am not affected, just curious - It doesn't explain whether in the
interim, whether you will be on the contracted rate agreed with the
company which went bust, or some new temporary rate.

I'm also with a small supplier who appears still to be in business and
have a very favourable (for me) tariff :)

I don't the answer to that but something else I read today

[quote]
9. Not all fixes are cheap, some are far higher than the price cap -
beware firms' sleight of hand

I've talked about cheap fixes above, but the operative word there is
CHEAP (although nothing is truly cheap right now), as only variable
tariffs need to fall within the price cap.

Horrifyingly, Scottish Power has a fix lasting just over a year which is
20% higher than the new price cap. Prices would need to rise roughly 50%
next April before that was worth doing - ridiculous.

And it's not alone. Other biggies, including Shell, Octopus, British
Gas, EDF and SSE, all have some fixes above the price cap too (though
those lasting longer are less bad). So don't just go for your supplier's
fix, instead it's better to do a whole-of-market cheap fix comparison.
[/quote]

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/latesttip/#hiya

[Brian Gaff (Sofa)]

I in the end opted for edf which is three years but a bit more than I was
paying but about the same as this next rise, gambling this is the first of
many rises which will make the best out of a bad job.

The costs involved in trying to keep up with the demand while trying to be
green are in many ways the issue here I suppose, considering that without
the ability to make some profit nobody would be in the energy market at all!

Brian
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Post by alan_m

Post by Harry Bloomfield, Esq.

Post by alan_m

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today

bugger, I'm with them ... no doubt the advice is not to try and move
until ofgem find a stand-in, still they're relatively cheap until then

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2021/09/utility-point-ceases-trading---here-s-everything-you-need-to-kno/

I am not affected, just curious - It doesn't explain whether in the
interim, whether you will be on the contracted rate agreed with the
company which went bust, or some new temporary rate.

I'm also with a small supplier who appears still to be in business and
have a very favourable (for me) tariff :)
I don't the answer to that but something else I read today
[quote]
9. Not all fixes are cheap, some are far higher than the price cap -
beware firms' sleight of hand
I've talked about cheap fixes above, but the operative word there is CHEAP
(although nothing is truly cheap right now), as only variable tariffs need
to fall within the price cap.
Horrifyingly, Scottish Power has a fix lasting just over a year which is
20% higher than the new price cap. Prices would need to rise roughly 50%
next April before that was worth doing - ridiculous.
And it's not alone. Other biggies, including Shell, Octopus, British Gas,
EDF and SSE, all have some fixes above the price cap too (though those
lasting longer are less bad). So don't just go for your supplier's fix,
instead it's better to do a whole-of-market cheap fix comparison.
[/quote]
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/latesttip/#hiya
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

[alan_m]

Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
I in the end opted for edf which is three years but a bit more than I was
paying but about the same as this next rise, gambling this is the first of
many rises which will make the best out of a bad job.

It's predicted that the recent price cap rise (for variable tariffs)
announcement will be followed in 6 months time by a similar announcement
for another equivalent rise.

[Andrew]

There was an item on the BBC red button text yesterday about other
EU countries like Spain and a few others offering to subsidise
rapidly increasing electric bills because of 'soaring gas prices'.

I thought the EU didn't allow this ?. Curious.

Andrew

Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
I in the end opted for edf which is three years but a bit more than I was
paying but about the same as this next rise, gambling this is the first of
many rises which will make the best out of a bad job.
The costs involved in trying to keep up with the demand while trying to be
green are in many ways the issue here I suppose, considering that without
the ability to make some profit nobody would be in the energy market at all!
Brian

[Andy Burns]

Post by alan_m
I'm also with a small supplier who appears still to be in business and
have a very favourable (for me) tariff :)

Yes, I joined Utility Point on a fixed deal, when it ran out they rolled
me onto a standard variable that wasn't a rip-off, and I don't think it
has actually ever varied, and now it's cheaper than anything the
comparison sites can find ... then they wonder why they go bust?

[alan_m]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by alan_m
I'm also with a small supplier who appears still to be in business and
have a very favourable (for me) tariff :)

Yes, I joined Utility Point on a fixed deal, when it ran out they rolled
me onto a standard variable that wasn't a rip-off, and I don't think it
has actually ever varied, and now it's cheaper than anything the
comparison sites can find ... then they wonder why they go bust?

In recent years some of the smaller companies have stayed afloat and
offered better deals than some of the much bigger suppliers. What seems
to have killed them this time is prices increasing 4x higher than RPI
and possible 8x time higher than RPI in 6 to 9 months time.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by alan_m
I'm also with a small supplier who appears still to be in business and
have a very favourable (for me) tariff :)

Yes, I joined Utility Point on a fixed deal, when it ran out they rolled
me onto a standard variable that wasn't a rip-off, and I don't think it
has actually ever varied, and now it's cheaper than anything the
comparison sites can find ... then they wonder why they go bust?

These companies are going bust because they don't take upfront payments
and electricity and gas prices are through the roof, because of the
failure of renewable energy, which is delivering the square root of
Sweet Fanny Adams right now, to prevent spot gas and electricity prices
going through the roof.

Welcome to the REAL effect of ClimateChange (policy).

This is what happens when you let people who Cant Do Sums, but Can Do
Feelings, ru[i]n your country.

[Andy Burns]

Post by The Natural Philosopher
These companies are going bust because they don't take upfront payments
and electricity and gas prices are through the roof

I think Utility Point's earliest "tracker" tariffs allowed the customer
various choices of how far to hedge future prices, can't remember the
details now, so it shouldn't be a surprise to them ...

I think they started losing the plot when they offered boiler servicing
and a rewards catalogue.

[alan_m]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by The Natural Philosopher
These companies are going bust because they don't take upfront
payments and electricity and gas prices are through the roof

I think Utility Point's earliest "tracker" tariffs allowed the customer
 various choices of how far to hedge future prices, can't remember the
details now, so it shouldn't be a surprise to them ...
I think they started losing the plot when they offered boiler servicing
and a rewards catalogue.

But boiler servicing etc. will not have cost them anything. They would
just have been an agent selling a third party service insurance and
taking the commission. They wouldn't have employed anyone themselves to
service boilers.

[Theo]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by The Natural Philosopher
These companies are going bust because they don't take upfront payments
and electricity and gas prices are through the roof

I think Utility Point's earliest "tracker" tariffs allowed the customer
various choices of how far to hedge future prices, can't remember the
details now, so it shouldn't be a surprise to them ...

I think this is a Northern Rock style problem. Sell long term, but buy
short term. In NR's case lend a 25 year mortgage and borrow the funding
for that on the monthly money market.

Which works fine until the price of the thing you're buying shoots up or
dries up completely, and suddenly you haven't the money to cover the long
term commitments you made.

I wonder how exposed companies are when their retail offer doesn't match
what they're buying on the wholesale market. For example, it may be that
Ofgem moaning 'too many tariffs, it's too complicated for consumers'
prevents them offering tariffs that align with the futures contracts
they can get on the spot market.

Post by Andy Burns
I think they started losing the plot when they offered boiler servicing
and a rewards catalogue.

That's just affiliate marketing, I suspect. My water company is forever
pushing supply pipe insurance, but it's actually from a third party. They
just post the letters and pocket some cash.

Theo

[Andy Burns]

Post by Theo
I think this is a Northern Rock style problem. Sell long term, but buy
short term. In NR's case lend a 25 year mortgage and borrow the funding
for that on the monthly money market.
Which works fine until the price of the thing you're buying shoots up or
dries up completely, and suddenly you haven't the money to cover the long
term commitments you made.

Sounds like OFGEM should put potential suppliers through an "operational
resilience" check like FCA (or whoever) does with banks? rather than
letting any noddy and big ears operation take their chance and then need
baling out to a supplier of last resort?

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

Post by Andy Burns
Sounds like OFGEM should put potential suppliers through an "operational
resilience" check like FCA (or whoever) does with banks? rather than letting
any noddy and big ears operation take their chance and then need baling out
to a supplier of last resort?

So long as the customer doesn't loose money, there is no problem - it
doesn't sound as if the customers are suffering any more than the
inconvenience having to find a new supplier.

[newshound]

Post by Andy Burns

I think this is a Northern Rock style problem.  Sell long term, but buy
short term.  In NR's case lend a 25 year mortgage and borrow the funding
for that on the monthly money market.
Which works fine until the price of the thing you're buying shoots up or
dries up completely, and suddenly you haven't the money to cover the long
term commitments you made.

Sounds like OFGEM should put potential suppliers through an "operational
resilience" check like FCA (or whoever) does with banks?  rather than
letting any noddy and big ears operation take their chance and then need
baling out to a supplier of last resort?

According to Kathryn Porter a lot of it is to do with the retail price cap

https://watt-logic.com/2021/09/15/energy-prices-soar

Just another example of this government's disconnection with reality.

[Andy Burns]

Post by newshound
According to Kathryn Porter a lot of it is to do with the retail price cap
https://watt-logic.com/2021/09/15/energy-prices-soar
Just another example of this government's disconnection with reality.

Blame Ed Miliband ...

[newshound]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by newshound
According to Kathryn Porter a lot of it is to do with the retail price
cap https://watt-logic.com/2021/09/15/energy-prices-soar
Just another example of this government's disconnection with reality.

Blame Ed Miliband ...

They've had 11 years to do something....

[Theo]

Post by newshound
According to Kathryn Porter a lot of it is to do with the retail price cap
https://watt-logic.com/2021/09/15/energy-prices-soar

That seems like a good summary.

Post by newshound
Just another example of this government's disconnection with reality.

More trying to balance two different things: the energy market is like the
stock market, but many consumers can only handle a savings account. The
regulator is trying to bridge the two worlds, to make things friendly to
consumers to enable market economics to do its thing. The alternative
would be to make things simple for consumers by just having a nationalised
energy industry, which capitalists aren't so keen on.

As we saw in the banking crisis, high volatility markets and low volatilty
consumer banking don't mix without a lot of expensive fudging in between.

I hadn't realised Centrica had closed Rough storage facility in 2017 -
which means we have no stored gas to smooth out bumps in the market. That's
somewhere a bit of central planning would have come in handy.

Theo

[Andrew]

Post by Andy Burns

I think this is a Northern Rock style problem.  Sell long term, but buy
short term.  In NR's case lend a 25 year mortgage and borrow the funding
for that on the monthly money market.
Which works fine until the price of the thing you're buying shoots up or
dries up completely, and suddenly you haven't the money to cover the long
term commitments you made.

Sounds like OFGEM should put potential suppliers through an "operational
resilience" check like FCA (or whoever) does with banks?  rather than
letting any noddy and big ears operation take their chance and then need
baling out to a supplier of last resort?

Isn't the problem that people can set up their own energy supply company
from their bedroom with minimal capital outlay ?.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Andrew

Post by Andy Burns
Sounds like OFGEM should put potential suppliers through an
"operational resilience" check like FCA (or whoever) does with banks?

Isn't the problem that people can set up their own energy supply company
from their bedroom with minimal capital outlay ?.

And that would be the sort of outfit that would fail a resilience check.

[Andrew]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Andrew

Post by Andy Burns
Sounds like OFGEM should put potential suppliers through an
"operational resilience" check like FCA (or whoever) does with banks?

Isn't the problem that people can set up their own energy supply company
from their bedroom with minimal capital outlay ?.

And that would be the sort of outfit that would fail a resilience check.

With the fire at the Ashford interconnector today, which means it will
be out of action until March 2022, gas prices are already rocketing.

This could bring about the demise of a lot more minnow energy
suppliers.

[alan_m]

Avro and Green have ceased trading

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

These companies are going bust because they don't take upfront payments and
electricity and gas prices are through the roof, because of the failure of
renewable energy, which is delivering the square root of Sweet Fanny Adams
right now, to prevent spot gas and electricity prices going through the roof.
Welcome to the REAL effect of ClimateChange (policy).
This is what happens when you let people who Cant Do Sums, but Can Do
Feelings, ru[i]n your country.

+1

[Spike]

Post by The Natural Philosopher
These companies are going bust because they don't take upfront payments
and electricity and gas prices are through the roof, because of the
failure of renewable energy, which is delivering the square root of
Sweet Fanny Adams right now, to prevent spot gas and electricity prices
going through the roof.
Welcome to the REAL effect of ClimateChange (policy).
This is what happens when you let people who Cant Do Sums, but Can Do
Feelings, ru[i]n your country.

We've just been through a period during which people have been exhorted,
cajoled, and forced to do things to 'Save the NHS'. One might expect
that as the Renewables programmes bite even further into sensible power
supplies and so endanger grid stability, electric car smart chargers
might be turned off to 'save the National Grid', once the batteries have
been flattened in the same cause. Can you unplug a smart charger while
it's taking juice?

[Chris Hogg]

Post by Spike

Post by The Natural Philosopher
These companies are going bust because they don't take upfront payments
and electricity and gas prices are through the roof, because of the
failure of renewable energy, which is delivering the square root of
Sweet Fanny Adams right now, to prevent spot gas and electricity prices
going through the roof.
Welcome to the REAL effect of ClimateChange (policy).
This is what happens when you let people who Cant Do Sums, but Can Do
Feelings, ru[i]n your country.

We've just been through a period during which people have been exhorted,
cajoled, and forced to do things to 'Save the NHS'. One might expect
that as the Renewables programmes bite even further into sensible power
supplies and so endanger grid stability, electric car smart chargers
might be turned off to 'save the National Grid', once the batteries have
been flattened in the same cause. Can you unplug a smart charger while
it's taking juice?

They're already planning it:-
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/environment/ev-chargers-switch-off-peak-times-blackouts/
or https://tinyurl.com/yz94preh

[alan_m]

Post by Chris Hogg
They're already planning it:-
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/environment/ev-chargers-switch-off-peak-times-blackouts/
or https://tinyurl.com/yz94preh

Wasn't there also something recently about a change of legislation where
utility companies wouldn't have to pay compensation in the event of a
power cut caused by a lack of capacity on the National grid?

[Spike]

Post by Chris Hogg

Post by Spike

Post by The Natural Philosopher
These companies are going bust because they don't take upfront payments
and electricity and gas prices are through the roof, because of the
failure of renewable energy, which is delivering the square root of
Sweet Fanny Adams right now, to prevent spot gas and electricity prices
going through the roof.
Welcome to the REAL effect of ClimateChange (policy).
This is what happens when you let people who Cant Do Sums, but Can Do
Feelings, ru[i]n your country.

We've just been through a period during which people have been exhorted,
cajoled, and forced to do things to 'Save the NHS'. One might expect
that as the Renewables programmes bite even further into sensible power
supplies and so endanger grid stability, electric car smart chargers
might be turned off to 'save the National Grid', once the batteries have
been flattened in the same cause. Can you unplug a smart charger while
it's taking juice?

They're already planning it:-
https://www.driving.co.uk/news/environment/ev-chargers-switch-off-peak-times-blackouts/
or https://tinyurl.com/yz94preh

Looks like we're going to have a nation of drivers who rush out to the
garage to unplug their smart chargers when their smart meter display
tells them the grid is being powered from their battery...

Perhaps better to charge from a 13A socket or a petrol generator. Still
involves trips to one's garage, but it does mean you don't have to shag
out your battery to 'Save the National Grid'!

[Andrew]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by alan_m
I'm also with a small supplier who appears still to be in business and
have a very favourable (for me) tariff :)

Yes, I joined Utility Point on a fixed deal, when it ran out they rolled
me onto a standard variable that wasn't a rip-off, and I don't think it
has actually ever varied, and now it's cheaper than anything the
comparison sites can find ... then they wonder why they go bust?

I wonder how long Octopus can last ?. Their variable 1/2 slot
pricing seems to be hitting the 35p maximum rather too frequently
this year.

Mind you my DRAX shares and dividends are doing nicely :-)

[Andy Burns]

Post by Andrew

Post by Andy Burns
I joined Utility Point on a fixed deal, when it ran out they
rolled me onto a standard variable that wasn't a rip-off, and I don't
think it has actually ever varied, and now it's cheaper than anything
the comparison sites can find ... then they wonder why they go bust?

Just checked on MSE and the cheapest on offer is +£157 from what I'm on

Post by Andrew
I wonder how long Octopus can last ?. Their variable 1/2 slot
pricing seems to be hitting the 35p maximum rather too frequently
this year.

Dunno about their variable (is that for EV owners only?) but their 24m
fix would be +£377 for me

Post by Andrew
Mind you my DRAX shares and dividends are doing nicely :-)

The drax insights website didn't show peak pricing anywhere near what
the guardian claimed ...

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Andrew

Post by Andy Burns
I joined Utility Point on a fixed deal, when it ran out they rolled
me onto a standard variable that wasn't a rip-off, and I don't think
it has actually ever varied, and now it's cheaper than anything the
comparison sites can find ... then they wonder why they go bust?

Just checked on MSE and the cheapest on offer is +£157 from what I'm on

Post by Andrew
I wonder how long Octopus can last ?. Their variable 1/2 slot
pricing seems to be hitting the 35p maximum rather too frequently
this year.

Dunno about their variable (is that for EV owners only?) but their 24m
fix would be +£377 for me

Post by Andrew
Mind you my DRAX shares and dividends are doing nicely :-)

The drax insights website didn't show peak pricing anywhere near what
the guardian claimed ...

Drax will have long term contracts. short term emergency spot pricing
can be gleaned off BMreports website

https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=balancing/systemsellbuyprices

peaks at 100x normal rates.

2021-09-15 40 3750.00000 3750.00000

Yuss folks, that spot price was £3.75 a unit....

Note that all of yesterday the spot price was well *above* the Hinkley
point contract for difference.

So much for renewable energy being cheaper than nuclear.

Hilariously, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard (Telegraph journalist for hire) has
now decided that the answer to the failures of renewable energy
resulting in massive spot price hikes is of course - just as when
socialism fails - more renewable energy!

[Andy Burns]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Andy Burns
The drax insights website didn't show peak pricing anywhere near what
the guardian claimed ...

Drax will have long term contracts. short term emergency spot pricing
can be gleaned off BMreports website

I'm sure they have contracts, but I was talking about their Electric
Insights graphs, which have at least 1h resolution, maybe better.

<https://electricinsights.co.uk/#/dashboard?start=2021-09-15&&_k=d9h2al>

For most of yesterday the price went high (£180ish/MWh) as soon as the
majority of gas stations were at full chat, and stayed high all day, but
looking now there was a BIG spike later, that dwarfed the price it had
been all day.

Actually thinking back, the site had an error message yesterday saying
it had a gap in its data, looks like someone's been in and fixed that,
but revised the "all day" prices down to £100ish/MWh so maybe a bad days
data to look at even without the interconnector fire ...

Post by The Natural Philosopher
https://www.bmreports.com/bmrs/?q=balancing/systemsellbuyprices
peaks at 100x normal rates.
2021-09-15    40    3750.00000    3750.00000

yep that agrees with the drax figure now.

Post by The Natural Philosopher
Yuss folks, that spot price was £3.75 a unit....

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

I'm also with a small supplier who appears still to be in business and have a
very favourable (for me) tariff :)
I don't the answer to that but something else I read today
[quote]
9. Not all fixes are cheap, some are far higher than the price cap - beware
firms' sleight of hand

I'm with Outfox. A few months before the end of my first year with
them, MSE emailed me to suggest Outfox were offering an even better 12
month fixed deal for me to switch to, so without checking I asked to be
moved. A day or two later MSE emailed me again to suggest there had
been a glitch in their system and it had wrongly suggested I move to a
more expensive tarriff.

It wasn't much more, so I left it on the new tarriff. Costs then went
up dramatically so the net effect has been to save me quite a lot of
money.

Outfox is one of the smaller ones, so I am anticipating them going bust
with the rest - hence my wondering about the exact process.

[Andy Burns]

Post by Harry Bloomfield, Esq.
Outfox is one of the smaller ones, so I am anticipating them going bust
with the rest

No bad thing. They have the same owners as one of those firms making
dubious claims of mega-efficiency for expensive electric storage heaters
to unwitting pensioners.

[AnthonyL]

Post by alan_m

Post by Harry Bloomfield, Esq.

Post by alan_m

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today

bugger, I'm with them ... no doubt the advice is not to try and move
until ofgem find a stand-in, still they're relatively cheap until then

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2021/09/utility-point-ceases-trading---here-s-everything-you-need-to-kno/

I am not affected, just curious - It doesn't explain whether in the
interim, whether you will be on the contracted rate agreed with the
company which went bust, or some new temporary rate.

I'm also with a small supplier who appears still to be in business and
have a very favourable (for me) tariff :)
I don't the answer to that but something else I read today
[quote]
9. Not all fixes are cheap, some are far higher than the price cap -
beware firms' sleight of hand
I've talked about cheap fixes above, but the operative word there is
CHEAP (although nothing is truly cheap right now), as only variable
tariffs need to fall within the price cap.
Horrifyingly, Scottish Power has a fix lasting just over a year which is
20% higher than the new price cap. Prices would need to rise roughly 50%
next April before that was worth doing - ridiculous.
And it's not alone. Other biggies, including Shell, Octopus, British
Gas, EDF and SSE, all have some fixes above the price cap too (though
those lasting longer are less bad). So don't just go for your supplier's
fix, instead it's better to do a whole-of-market cheap fix comparison.
[/quote]
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/latesttip/#hiya

I'd started to look at prices a couple of months ago when my supplier
shoved me off to another, but as the old tariff for electricity was
being held till towards the end of October, and I'm not using much gas
just yet, I've only just revisited and the price hikes look like a
rip-off. Are the suppliers just preying on customer panic? Or is
there a genuine expectation that gas prices are going to near double?

Not sure which way to jump now - and some suppliers seem to be only
offering decent fixed deals if smart meters are installed, something
I'm not keen on.

[Andy Burns]

Post by AnthonyL
as the old tariff for electricity was
being held till towards the end of October, and I'm not using much gas
just yet, I've only just revisited and the price hikes look like a
rip-off. Are the suppliers just preying on customer panic?

Given that OFGEM has given them the green light to bump their default
tariffs by £139, I don't suppose many of them will immediately want to
cut prices very far?

[Andy Burns]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today

bugger, I'm with them ... no doubt the advice is not to try and move
until ofgem find a stand-in

And it seems EDF will be the replacement supplier, was hoping OFGEM
would take months to find someone who wanted a whole raft of loss making
customers, so I could stay on my el-cheapo tariff ...


Oh well, EDF claim they might able to re-instate my previously-smart meter

[Steve Walker]

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Andy Burns

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today

bugger, I'm with them ... no doubt the advice is not to try and move
until ofgem find a stand-in

And it seems EDF will be the replacement supplier, was hoping OFGEM
would take months to find someone who wanted a whole raft of loss making
customers, so I could stay on my el-cheapo tariff ...
Oh well, EDF claim they might able to re-instate my previously-smart meter

Our gas supplier went bump recently (Hub, previously Gulf Gas and Power)
and I am quite pleased. Our fixed tariff was due to run out in December
and it was looking like prices might be very much higher, but we have
been switched to EON, with a good price, guaranteed unchanged for 6
months - and hopefully, the peak of the problem will be over by then.

[The Natural Philosopher]

6 months - and hopefully, the peak of the problem will be over by then.

Dream on...

take ten years to dismantle all the wind farms and build cost effective
nukes...

[Spike]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

6 months - and hopefully, the peak of the problem will be over by then.

Dream on...
take ten years to dismantle all the wind farms

The person who asked about what to do with nuclear waste might like to
consider what happens to used wind turbines. The unreactive concrete and
plastic-based composites go to landfill and stay there for millennia,
the very thing that the environmentalists who demanded clean energy
don't want.

Funny old world, this environmentalism, innit.

[Andrew]

Post by Spike

Post by The Natural Philosopher

6 months - and hopefully, the peak of the problem will be over by then.

Dream on...
take ten years to dismantle all the wind farms

The person who asked about what to do with nuclear waste might like to
consider what happens to used wind turbines. The unreactive concrete and
plastic-based composites go to landfill and stay there for millennia,
the very thing that the environmentalists who demanded clean energy
don't want.
Funny old world, this environmentalism, innit.

There are going to be a lot of old solar panels heading for
landfill at some point.

[SH]

Post by Andrew

Post by Spike

Post by The Natural Philosopher

6 months - and hopefully, the peak of the problem will be over by then.

Dream on...
take ten years to dismantle all the wind farms

The person who asked about what to do with nuclear waste might like to
consider what happens to used wind turbines. The unreactive concrete and
plastic-based composites go to landfill and stay there for millennia,
the very thing that the environmentalists who demanded clean energy
don't want.
Funny old world, this environmentalism, innit.

There are going to be a lot of old solar panels heading for
landfill at some point.

the silicon can be melted down and recycled into new solar panels and
teh aluminium frames reused......

[Owain Lastname]

Post by Andrew
There are going to be a lot of old solar panels heading for
landfill at some point.

It's the sort of thing J Bull (Electrical) Ltd would have sold off cheaply. Ideal for building your own solar-powered calculator! and the panel arrives on a flatbed lorry.

Owain

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Andy Burns
EDF claim they might able to re-instate my previously-smart meter

Why on earth would you want that?

[Pancho]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Andy Burns
EDF claim they might able to re-instate my previously-smart meter

Why on earth would you want that?

My reason would be my electricity meter cabinet has a weird latch,
requiring a key. In the past meter readers broke the old lock because
there was no key. I managed to find a replacement latch/barrel that
fitted, but again it is keyed and fits badly, but stops it banging in
the wind.

If the meter is smart nobody ever has to open the cabinet. If the
cabinet is repeatedly opened the latch will break again.

Of course the electricity smart meter went dumb soon after I fitted the
new lock. The gas one, with a traditional latch still is smart. Strange
because the gas meter reports via the electricity meter.

[Andy Burns]

Post by The Natural Philosopher

Post by Andy Burns
EDF claim they might able to re-instate my previously-smart meter

Why on earth would you want that?

My reason would be my electricity meter cabinet has a weird latch, requiring a
key. In the past meter readers broke the old lock because there was no key. I
managed to find a replacement latch/barrel that fitted, but again it is keyed
and fits badly, but stops it banging in the wind.
If the meter is smart nobody ever has to open the cabinet. If the cabinet is
repeatedly opened the latch will break again.

My meter is still smart enough that I can read gas & leccy without a trip into
cobweb land, so effectively all it will do for me to re-instate them is to stop
me forgetting to send in resding by hand, which seems to happen about 1 month in 2.

Of course the electricity smart meter went dumb soon after I fitted the new
lock. The gas one, with a traditional latch still is smart. Strange because the
gas meter reports via the electricity meter.

[Tim Streater]

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today, following PFP Energy and MoneyPlus
Energy. It seems that with the price of power, particularly
electricity, increasing rapidly they can't get the money in quickly
enough to pay for the power their customers are consuming when it is
due. The email from UP forecasts that more will follow soon.

Why are these called "power suppliers" when in fact they are just billing
operations (most of them).

[charles]

Post by Tim Streater

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today, following PFP Energy and MoneyPlus
Energy. It seems that with the price of power, particularly
electricity, increasing rapidly they can't get the money in quickly
enough to pay for the power their customers are consuming when it is
due. The email from UP forecasts that more will follow soon.

Why are these called "power suppliers" when in fact they are just billing
operations (most of them).

Indeed, To be a power supplier, you need to generate, or drill for, power.

[Owain Lastname]

Post by charles

Post by Tim Streater
Why are these called "power suppliers" when in fact they are just billing
operations (most of them).

Indeed, To be a power supplier, you need to generate, or drill for, power.

Many of the small suppliers aren't even billing operations - that's contracted out to a software service provider.

Which has lost about 3 clients this week, started redundancy proceedings, and if it folds then presumably other clients are going to find themselves without a working billing solution rather suddenly.

Owain

[newshound]

Post by Tim Streater

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today, following PFP Energy and MoneyPlus
Energy. It seems that with the price of power, particularly
electricity, increasing rapidly they can't get the money in quickly
enough to pay for the power their customers are consuming when it is
due. The email from UP forecasts that more will follow soon.

Why are these called "power suppliers" when in fact they are just billing
operations (most of them).

Well there always was a "retail" side, but at least in the old days your
MEB, SWEB, etc. also looked after the local distribution wiring.

[Max Demian]

Post by newshound

Post by Tim Streater

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today, following PFP Energy and MoneyPlus
Energy. It seems that with the price of power, particularly
electricity, increasing rapidly they can't get the money in quickly
enough to pay for the power their customers are consuming when it is
due. The email from UP forecasts that more will follow soon.

Why are these called "power suppliers" when in fact they are just billing
operations (most of them).

Well there always was a "retail" side, but at least in the old days your
MEB, SWEB, etc. also looked after the local distribution wiring.

Yeah they had shops on the high street. Forget what they used to sell;
electric stuff obviously.

[newshound]

Post by Max Demian

Post by newshound

On 14 Sep 2021 at 15:56:27 BST, Peter Johnson

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today, following PFP Energy and MoneyPlus
Energy. It seems that with the price of power, particularly
electricity, increasing rapidly they can't get the money in quickly
enough to pay for the power their customers are consuming when it is
due. The email from UP forecasts that more will follow soon.

Why are these called "power suppliers" when in fact they are just billing
operations (most of them).

Well there always was a "retail" side, but at least in the old days
your MEB, SWEB, etc. also looked after the local distribution wiring.

Yeah they had shops on the high street. Forget what they used to sell;
electric stuff obviously.

As an industry employee, we had 30% discounts which made shopping for
white goods a complete no-brainer.

[Theo]

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today, following PFP Energy and MoneyPlus
Energy. It seems that with the price of power, particularly
electricity, increasing rapidly they can't get the money in quickly
enough to pay for the power their customers are consuming when it is
due. The email from UP forecasts that more will follow soon.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/master-publications-library
says that the following suppliers failed to pay Ofgem a bill due this week:

Colorado Energy Limited
Igloo Energy Supply Limited
Neon Reef Limited
Whoop Energy Limited
Symbio Energy

I see Symbio and Igloo have suspended taking new customers, Neon Reef still
is (and are currently cheapest for my quote, although not for long I
suspect), Whoop is business-only and Colorado is for letting agents.

Theo

[Steve Walker]

Post by Theo

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today, following PFP Energy and MoneyPlus
Energy. It seems that with the price of power, particularly
electricity, increasing rapidly they can't get the money in quickly
enough to pay for the power their customers are consuming when it is
due. The email from UP forecasts that more will follow soon.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/master-publications-library
Colorado Energy Limited
Igloo Energy Supply Limited
Neon Reef Limited
Whoop Energy Limited
Symbio Energy
I see Symbio and Igloo have suspended taking new customers, Neon Reef still
is (and are currently cheapest for my quote, although not for long I
suspect), Whoop is business-only and Colorado is for letting agents.

Hmmm, I wonder if Symbio may fail and if so how my electricity will be
affected and will it work out as well as for my gas?

Gulf Power (later Hub) folded recently. My GP/Hub gas deal was due to
end in December and I would have faced looking for a new deal at
possibly the height of the problems. However, I have been transferred to
a good priced EON deal, guaranteed not to rise for 6 months, which will
hopefully be better timed to change.

[alan_m]

Post by Theo

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today, following PFP Energy and MoneyPlus
Energy. It seems that with the price of power, particularly
electricity, increasing rapidly they can't get the money in quickly
enough to pay for the power their customers are consuming when it is
due. The email from UP forecasts that more will follow soon.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/master-publications-library
Colorado Energy Limited
Igloo Energy Supply Limited
Neon Reef Limited
Whoop Energy Limited
Symbio Energy
I see Symbio and Igloo have suspended taking new customers, Neon Reef still
is (and are currently cheapest for my quote, although not for long I
suspect), Whoop is business-only and Colorado is for letting agents.
Theo

[AnthonyL]

On 23 Sep 2021 17:14:57 +0100 (BST), Theo

Post by Theo

Post by Peter Johnson
Utility Point has collapsed today, following PFP Energy and MoneyPlus
Energy. It seems that with the price of power, particularly
electricity, increasing rapidly they can't get the money in quickly
enough to pay for the power their customers are consuming when it is
due. The email from UP forecasts that more will follow soon.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/master-publications-library
Colorado Energy Limited
Igloo Energy Supply Limited
Neon Reef Limited
Whoop Energy Limited
Symbio Energy
I see Symbio and Igloo have suspended taking new customers, Neon Reef still
is (and are currently cheapest for my quote, although not for long I
suspect), Whoop is business-only and Colorado is for letting agents.

I have on my "to do" list a note from the beginning of the month to
switch suppliers. Igloo were one of the candidates. For once
procrastination may well have save me a problem.

I wonder how many Igloo customers will receive the 3% on any excess
payments they've been making.