Discussion:
Philips TDA1541A S1 DAC
(too old to reply)
Oddjob
2010-03-05 22:26:46 UTC
Permalink
Hello everyone, I after the above chip from 1990-95

Does anybody know of a UK distributor likely to have old stock?

Many thanks
Phil Allison
2010-03-06 01:30:52 UTC
Permalink
"Oddjob"
Post by Oddjob
Hello everyone, I after the above chip from 1990-95
Does anybody know of a UK distributor likely to have old stock?
** Have a look on eBay - dozens of 'em on offer.

Or this mob in the UK:

http://www.littlediode.com/components/TDA1541A_Integrated_Circuit.html?gclid=CNeJmqL8oqACFQcupAodjwrBZA

You did not LOOK very hard - did you ???



.... Phil
UnsteadyKen
2010-03-06 02:24:29 UTC
Permalink
Phil Allison said...
Post by Phil Allison
You did not LOOK very hard - did you ???
He's looking for the S1 (Celected) Crown variant, production ceased
about 2,000 and they are highly prized http://goo.gl/aUnL
and there are lots of fakes and lower spec copies around.
--
Ken O'Meara
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/
Phil Allison
2010-03-06 02:30:50 UTC
Permalink
"UnsteadyKen"
Post by UnsteadyKen
Post by Phil Allison
You did not LOOK very hard - did you ???
He's looking for the S1 (Celected) Crown variant,
** So you did not look on eBay either !!!



.... Phil
Brian Gaff
2010-03-06 11:13:25 UTC
Permalink
So what is so special then?
If its some replacement maybe something can be cobbled together from more
modern chips.

Brian
--
Brian Gaff - ***@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
Post by Phil Allison
"UnsteadyKen"
Post by UnsteadyKen
Post by Phil Allison
You did not LOOK very hard - did you ???
He's looking for the S1 (Celected) Crown variant,
** So you did not look on eBay either !!!
.... Phil
Oddjob
2010-03-06 17:58:33 UTC
Permalink
It is in my Meridian D600 speakers. It was distorting and making a
crackly noise :-(
Post by Brian Gaff
So what is so special then?
If its some replacement maybe something can be cobbled together from more
modern chips.
Brian
Jim Lesurf
2010-03-07 08:41:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oddjob
It is in my Meridian D600 speakers. It was distorting and making a
crackly noise :-(
Ask Meridian?

How do you know it is the DAC chip that is causing the problems?

Slainte,

Jim
--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Oddjob
2010-03-07 09:34:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Oddjob
It is in my Meridian D600 speakers. It was distorting and making a
crackly noise :-(
Ask Meridian?
How do you know it is the DAC chip that is causing the problems?
Slainte,
Jim
If the chip is cooled it is okay - apply heat with soldering iron and it
starts....
Don Pearce
2010-03-07 10:49:11 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 09:34:52 +0000, Oddjob
Post by Oddjob
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Oddjob
It is in my Meridian D600 speakers. It was distorting and making a
crackly noise :-(
Ask Meridian?
How do you know it is the DAC chip that is causing the problems?
Slainte,
Jim
If the chip is cooled it is okay - apply heat with soldering iron and it
starts....
I'd remake all the solder joints before changing the chip. Get rid of
all the original solder with wick, then re-apply new stuff. Also get
as powerful a magnifying glass as you can and look for any sign of
cracking of the tracks nearby.

This does need doing first, but sadly I suspect that you have got the
diagnosis right.

d
Jim Lesurf
2010-03-07 15:11:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Pearce
Post by Oddjob
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Oddjob
It is in my Meridian D600 speakers. It was distorting and making a
crackly noise :-(
Ask Meridian?
How do you know it is the DAC chip that is causing the problems?
Slainte,
Jim
If the chip is cooled it is okay - apply heat with soldering iron and
it starts....
I'd remake all the solder joints before changing the chip.
I'd agree. Might easily be a poor solder connection. So if you are keen to
keep using the original spec DAC then remaking the connections with care is
worth trying.

Slainte,

Jim
--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Oddjob
2010-03-07 17:39:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Don Pearce
Post by Oddjob
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Oddjob
It is in my Meridian D600 speakers. It was distorting and making a
crackly noise :-(
Ask Meridian?
How do you know it is the DAC chip that is causing the problems?
Slainte,
Jim
If the chip is cooled it is okay - apply heat with soldering iron and
it starts....
I'd remake all the solder joints before changing the chip.
I'd agree. Might easily be a poor solder connection. So if you are keen to
keep using the original spec DAC then remaking the connections with care is
worth trying.
Slainte,
Jim
I can get a TDA1541A easily enough. The silver crown will be a lot
harder and more expensive....

This bloke has some interesting information about the Philips DAC:

http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/TDA1541%20corner/TDA1541.html
David Looser
2010-03-07 18:09:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Don Pearce
Post by Oddjob
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Oddjob
It is in my Meridian D600 speakers. It was distorting and making a
crackly noise :-(
Ask Meridian?
How do you know it is the DAC chip that is causing the problems?
Slainte,
Jim
If the chip is cooled it is okay - apply heat with soldering iron and
it starts....
I'd remake all the solder joints before changing the chip.
I'd agree. Might easily be a poor solder connection. So if you are keen to
keep using the original spec DAC then remaking the connections with care is
worth trying.
Slainte,
Jim
I can get a TDA1541A easily enough. The silver crown will be a lot harder
and more expensive....
http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/TDA1541%20corner/TDA1541.html
That's not "information", that's opinion, (and in my opinion he's nuts).

David.
Arny Krueger
2010-03-07 20:28:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Looser
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Don Pearce
Post by Oddjob
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Oddjob
It is in my Meridian D600 speakers. It was distorting and making a
crackly noise :-(
Ask Meridian?
How do you know it is the DAC chip that is causing the problems?
Slainte,
Jim
If the chip is cooled it is okay - apply heat with soldering iron and
it starts....
I'd remake all the solder joints before changing the chip.
I'd agree. Might easily be a poor solder connection. So if you are keen to
keep using the original spec DAC then remaking the connections with care is
worth trying.
Slainte,
Jim
I can get a TDA1541A easily enough. The silver crown will be a lot harder
and more expensive....
http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/TDA1541%20corner/TDA1541.html
That's not "information", that's opinion, (and in my opinion he's nuts).
A lot of what he says is a truism (true of any good DAC), and the rest is
wild speculation.

I can see the desire to use a pin-compatible replacement if this is for
fixing up something that is broken.
Oddjob
2010-03-07 22:34:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by David Looser
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Don Pearce
Post by Oddjob
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Oddjob
It is in my Meridian D600 speakers. It was distorting and making a
crackly noise :-(
Ask Meridian?
How do you know it is the DAC chip that is causing the problems?
Slainte,
Jim
If the chip is cooled it is okay - apply heat with soldering iron and
it starts....
I'd remake all the solder joints before changing the chip.
I'd agree. Might easily be a poor solder connection. So if you are keen to
keep using the original spec DAC then remaking the connections with care is
worth trying.
Slainte,
Jim
I can get a TDA1541A easily enough. The silver crown will be a lot harder
and more expensive....
http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/TDA1541%20corner/TDA1541.html
That's not "information", that's opinion, (and in my opinion he's nuts).
A lot of what he says is a truism (true of any good DAC), and the rest is
wild speculation.
I can see the desire to use a pin-compatible replacement if this is for
fixing up something that is broken.
Have you read his heresy opinions:

http://www.lampizator.eu/HERESY/heresy.html

I thought no.7 was interesting. Is he comparing performance sound
pressure waves with amplifier outputs?
David Looser
2010-03-07 23:23:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oddjob
http://www.lampizator.eu/HERESY/heresy.html
Oh dear, "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing". He has that "little
knowledge" and thinks it equips him to produce a page like that!

David.
Arny Krueger
2010-03-08 12:05:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oddjob
http://www.lampizator.eu/HERESY/heresy.html
I thought no.7 was interesting. Is he comparing performance sound pressure
waves with amplifier outputs?
I don't see any helpful wisdom there.
fredbloggstwo
2010-03-08 20:39:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oddjob
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by David Looser
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Don Pearce
On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 09:34:52 +0000,
Post by Oddjob
Post by Jim Lesurf
Post by Oddjob
It is in my Meridian D600 speakers. It was distorting and making a
crackly noise :-(
Ask Meridian?
How do you know it is the DAC chip that is causing the problems?
Slainte,
Jim
If the chip is cooled it is okay - apply heat with soldering iron and
it starts....
I'd remake all the solder joints before changing the chip.
I'd agree. Might easily be a poor solder connection. So if you are
keen
to
keep using the original spec DAC then remaking the connections with
care
is
worth trying.
Slainte,
Jim
I can get a TDA1541A easily enough. The silver crown will be a lot harder
and more expensive....
http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/TDA1541%20corner/TDA1541.html
That's not "information", that's opinion, (and in my opinion he's nuts).
A lot of what he says is a truism (true of any good DAC), and the rest is
wild speculation.
I can see the desire to use a pin-compatible replacement if this is for
fixing up something that is broken.
http://www.lampizator.eu/HERESY/heresy.html
I thought no.7 was interesting. Is he comparing performance sound pressure
waves with amplifier outputs?
I think he should get out more.

Mike
Arny Krueger
2010-03-07 12:07:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oddjob
Hello everyone, I after the above chip from 1990-95
Does anybody know of a UK distributor likely to have old stock?
Many thanks
Why bother?

DAC chip technology has moved on since then.
Phil Allison
2010-03-07 12:11:31 UTC
Permalink
"Arny Krueger Compewter Geek "
Post by Phil Allison
"Oddjob"
Post by Oddjob
Hello everyone, I after the above chip from 1990-95
Does anybody know of a UK distributor likely to have old stock?
Many thanks
Why bother?
** Spoken like a true electronics philistine.
Post by Phil Allison
DAC chip technology has moved on since then.
** Shame how all the audio devices that used that particular chip have not.



..... Phil
Frank
2010-03-07 12:42:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Allison
** Shame how all the audio devices that used that particular chip have not.
I agree.

Frank
Jim Lesurf
2010-03-07 15:15:02 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@giganews.com>, Arny
Krueger
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by Oddjob
Hello everyone, I after the above chip from 1990-95
Does anybody know of a UK distributor likely to have old stock?
Many thanks
Why bother?
DAC chip technology has moved on since then.
But is there a 'drop in' replacement he can use in his D600 speakers? For
all I know, there may be a fix using a newer DAC, which is why contacting
Meridian is worth a try.

And TBH I suspect replacing with a normal version of the DAC might actually
sound fine. :-) But I think it makes sense to try and restore to original
if possible if he wants to go on using the speakers.

Slainte,

Jim
--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Trevor Wilson
2010-03-07 22:11:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by Oddjob
Hello everyone, I after the above chip from 1990-95
Does anybody know of a UK distributor likely to have old stock?
Many thanks
Why bother?
DAC chip technology has moved on since then.
**Typical American attitude. If it's broken, chuck it out, regardless of the
inherent quality of the device.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Arny Krueger
2010-03-08 12:16:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trevor Wilson
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by Oddjob
Hello everyone, I after the above chip from 1990-95
Does anybody know of a UK distributor likely to have old stock?
Many thanks
Why bother?
DAC chip technology has moved on since then.
**Typical American attitude. If it's broken, chuck it out, regardless of
the inherent quality of the device.
Misses the point that the inherent quality of the TDA1541 is relatively poor
by modern standards. People don't make audio DACs that way any more, and
there are very many good reasons for it. I can understand a person who
simply wants to get a quality legacy piece back into operation with minmal
hassle. My comments were intended for retro-technology freaks who scour the
world for this chip to the exclusion of all others for new equipment
construction, in their obsessive pursuit of better sound. Because of their
self-defeating behavior, legitimate needs for maintenance become frustrated.

This all reminds me of an stereo receiver I once had that features an
elaborate stereo decoder, with many discrete transistors, diodes, coils and
capcitors that needed extensive adjustement after assembly and featured a
tricky manual nulling technique to optimize its adjustment for every
station. One day I pretty well cleared its part of the circuit card and
replaced it with a $3 chip that sounded oh, so much better and required no
manual adjustements at all once a single potentiometer was set. The essence
of the potentiometer setting was to adjust it until there was sound.
Laurence Payne
2010-03-08 12:25:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by Trevor Wilson
**Typical American attitude. If it's broken, chuck it out, regardless of
the inherent quality of the device.
Misses the point that the inherent quality of the TDA1541 is relatively poor
by modern standards. People don't make audio DACs that way any more, and
there are very many good reasons for it. I can understand a person who
simply wants to get a quality legacy piece back into operation with minmal
hassle. My comments were intended for retro-technology freaks who scour the
world for this chip to the exclusion of all others for new equipment
construction, in their obsessive pursuit of better sound.
What gave you the impression that was why he was asking?

IS there a better, easily available, slot-in replacement for this
chip?
Arny Krueger
2010-03-08 13:40:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Laurence Payne
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by Trevor Wilson
**Typical American attitude. If it's broken, chuck it out, regardless of
the inherent quality of the device.
Misses the point that the inherent quality of the TDA1541 is relatively poor
by modern standards. People don't make audio DACs that way any more, and
there are very many good reasons for it. I can understand a person who
simply wants to get a quality legacy piece back into operation with minmal
hassle. My comments were intended for retro-technology freaks who scour the
world for this chip to the exclusion of all others for new equipment
construction, in their obsessive pursuit of better sound.
What gave you the impression that was why he was asking?
That's the usual context of questions like these.

There has been an amazing amount of worship of the TDA 1541 because it is
such a different technology than current (superior) practice.
Post by Laurence Payne
IS there a better, easily available, slot-in replacement for this
chip?
Good question. If availibility remains a problem, someone who has the need
might want to do their homework.

Using a lower grade of the same chip would probably not cause any real world
problems and should be investigated first.

However, it would be acceptable to put the new works on a little piece of
circuit card and fly it on stilts over the existing converter chips. Both
the converter and reconstruction filters would need to be bypassed.
Trevor Wilson
2010-03-08 22:01:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by Trevor Wilson
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by Oddjob
Hello everyone, I after the above chip from 1990-95
Does anybody know of a UK distributor likely to have old stock?
Many thanks
Why bother?
DAC chip technology has moved on since then.
**Typical American attitude. If it's broken, chuck it out,
regardless of the inherent quality of the device.
Misses the point that the inherent quality of the TDA1541 is
relatively poor by modern standards.
**Irrelevant. Your claim, here and elsewhere, is that the TDA1541 is
'audibly perfect'. Therefore, given the inherent quality of the device being
repaired, it makes perfect sense to spend a reasonable amount to service it.
The American attitude, as typified by your comments, is to chuck it out,
rather than service it. That, in part, is what is wrong with our society
today.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Arny Krueger
2010-03-09 03:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trevor Wilson
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by Trevor Wilson
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by Oddjob
Hello everyone, I after the above chip from 1990-95
Does anybody know of a UK distributor likely to have old stock?
Many thanks
Why bother?
DAC chip technology has moved on since then.
**Typical American attitude. If it's broken, chuck it out,
regardless of the inherent quality of the device.
Misses the point that the inherent quality of the TDA1541 is
relatively poor by modern standards.
**Irrelevant. Your claim, here and elsewhere, is that the TDA1541 is
'audibly perfect'. Therefore, given the inherent quality of the device
being repaired, it makes perfect sense to spend a reasonable amount to
service it.
Well Trevor you're having so much fun picking a fight with yourself that I
hesitate to put an end to your fun and try to bring you back to reality.

No place did I suggest, even for a second, that the Meridian 600 speakers be
scrapped.
Post by Trevor Wilson
The American attitude, as typified by your comments, is to chuck it out,
rather than service it.
Interesting how an Aussie would be such an expert on American culture given
the distance and other differences.
Post by Trevor Wilson
That, in part, is what is wrong with our society today.
You would be wise to speak only for your own society, Trevor.
Ian Iveson
2010-03-09 03:35:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trevor Wilson
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by Trevor Wilson
**Typical American attitude. If it's broken, chuck it
out,
regardless of the inherent quality of the device.
Misses the point that the inherent quality of the TDA1541
is
relatively poor by modern standards.
**Irrelevant. Your claim, here and elsewhere, is that the
TDA1541 is 'audibly perfect'. Therefore, given the
inherent quality of the device being repaired, it makes
perfect sense to spend a reasonable amount to service it.
The American attitude, as typified by your comments, is to
chuck it out, rather than service it. That, in part, is
what is wrong with our society today.
Not for much longer, you'll be happy to know. It's an
attitude arising from low relative prices for consumer
goods.

Soon, Americans won't be the only people to find themselves
darning their socks. God knows what'll happen when all these
mobile phones start breaking down and no-one can afford new
ones.

Anyway, on your substantial point, how old is the currently
prevalent view that CD audio is as close to perfect as makes
no difference? Seems to me "improved" chips continue to
appear periodically, and some of these improvements are
presumably related to accuracy. So at what point in this
history did these improvements become indiscernable?

AFAIK, infatuation with the TDA1541 is because it's used in
equipment that sounds particularly good in the opinion of
some people. Chunky chip, too, which is handy for DIYers. I
guess those people would be prepared to accept that they may
not measure too well, but they don't care.

I wonder if Arny was here, at the time, to tell everone that
it really didn't matter, because in XYB tests no-one could
tell the difference.

Ian
Eiron
2010-03-09 07:31:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Iveson
Anyway, on your substantial point, how old is the currently
prevalent view that CD audio is as close to perfect as makes
no difference? Seems to me "improved" chips continue to
appear periodically, and some of these improvements are
presumably related to accuracy. So at what point in this
history did these improvements become indiscernable?
Sometime in the late eighties.
--
Eiron.
Phil Allison
2010-03-09 08:23:52 UTC
Permalink
"Eiron"
Post by Eiron
Anyway, on your substantial point, how old is the currently prevalent
view that CD audio is as close to perfect as makes no difference? Seems
to me "improved" chips continue to appear periodically, and some of these
improvements are presumably related to accuracy. So at what point in this
history did these improvements become indiscernable?
Sometime in the late eighties.
** No improvement in the audio quality of D to As for use with CD players
that matters has occurred since 1982.

All claims to the contrary are fake.


..... Phil
Arny Krueger
2010-03-09 12:27:01 UTC
Permalink
Not for much longer, you'll be happy to know. It's an attitude arising
from low relative prices for consumer goods.
The costs that technology roll back generally never return.
Soon, Americans won't be the only people to find themselves darning their
socks.
You're dreaming.
God knows what'll happen when all these mobile phones start breaking down
and no-one can afford new ones.
They are getting even cheaper for a given level of functionality.
Anyway, on your substantial point, how old is the currently prevalent view
that CD audio is as close to perfect as makes no difference?
How old is the CD format?
Seems to me "improved" chips continue to appear periodically, and some of
these improvements are presumably related to accuracy.
You presume wrong.
So at what point in this history did these improvements become
indiscernable?
Compared to the whopping amounts of noise and distortion that were
previously accepted when they came from analog media, from day one.

In fact a well-run DBT will show slight audible deficiencies in the first
generation players, particularly the CDP 101.
AFAIK, infatuation with the TDA1541 is because it's used in equipment that
sounds particularly good in the opinion of some people.
It's all about hype, profiteering, sentimentality, and sighted evaluations.
Chunky chip, too, which is handy for DIYers. I guess those people would be
prepared to accept that they may not measure too well, but they don't
care.
Like I said, all about hype, profiteering, sentimentality, and sighted
evaluations.
I wonder if Arny was here, at the time, to tell everone that it really
didn't matter, because in XYB tests no-one could tell the difference.
It is their gun, their bullet, their toes.
Rob
2010-03-09 14:57:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arny Krueger
Not for much longer, you'll be happy to know. It's an attitude arising
from low relative prices for consumer goods.
The costs that technology roll back generally never return.
Soon, Americans won't be the only people to find themselves darning their
socks.
You're dreaming.
God knows what'll happen when all these mobile phones start breaking down
and no-one can afford new ones.
They are getting even cheaper for a given level of functionality.
It could be suggested that they're getting more expensive - natural
resources, social costs, environmental damage. But I see where you're
coming from - cheap for you.
Arny Krueger
2010-03-09 15:51:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rob
Post by Arny Krueger
Not for much longer, you'll be happy to know. It's an attitude arising
from low relative prices for consumer goods.
The costs that technology roll back generally never return.
Soon, Americans won't be the only people to find themselves darning their
socks.
You're dreaming.
God knows what'll happen when all these mobile phones start breaking down
and no-one can afford new ones.
They are getting even cheaper for a given level of functionality.
It could be suggested that they're getting more expensive - natural
resources, social costs, environmental damage. But I see where you're
coming from - cheap for you.
Or, you could step back and look at the *big* picture. By selling the
American people on the idea of obsessing over their cell phones instead of
their SUVs, people who used to buy a new SUV every year, now buy a new cell
phone every 6 months. Then there are the people who used to buy a new house
every 2 years!

Think I'm making this up? Look what is happening to home and SUV sales
versus cell phone sales in the US!

I'll leave it to you to figure out the difference in terms of the resources
you listed... ;-)

The scary thing is that I know people whose minds work like that...
Phil Allison
2010-03-09 21:54:47 UTC
Permalink
"Arny Krueger"
Post by Arny Krueger
In fact a well-run DBT will show slight audible deficiencies in the first
generation players, particularly the CDP 101.
** Blatant LIE about the Sony CDP101 !!

Proved Arny WRONG on this one, many times.

His FAKE proof involves a MONO signal test.

ROTFLMAO !!


.... Phil
Arny Krueger
2010-03-10 12:18:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Allison
"Arny Krueger"
Post by Arny Krueger
In fact a well-run DBT will show slight audible deficiencies in the first
generation players, particularly the CDP 101.
** Blatant LIE about the Sony CDP101 !!
Proved Arny WRONG on this one, many times.
His FAKE proof involves a MONO signal test.
?????????????????????????????
Phil Allison
2010-03-10 12:33:48 UTC
Permalink
"Arny Krueger"
Post by Arny Krueger
In fact a well-run DBT will show slight audible deficiencies in the first
generation players, particularly the CDP 101.
** Blatant LIE about the Sony CDP101 !!

Proved Arny WRONG on this one, many times.

His FAKE proof involves a MONO signal test.

ROTFLMAO !!





.... Phil
Eiron
2010-03-09 07:54:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trevor Wilson
**Irrelevant. Your claim, here and elsewhere, is that the TDA1541 is
'audibly perfect'. Therefore, given the inherent quality of the device being
repaired, it makes perfect sense to spend a reasonable amount to service it.
The American attitude, as typified by your comments, is to chuck it out,
rather than service it. That, in part, is what is wrong with our society
today.
It's always puzzled me why you write 'service' when you mean 'repair'.
Is that an Australian thing? Or a psychological trick to persuade the
punters
to spend more on a repair than it would cost to buy something newer and
better?
Over here servicing is topping up the oil on a Garrard 401
or adjusting the bias current and offset voltage on a Linsley Hood.
--
Eiron.
Trevor Wilson
2010-03-09 19:54:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eiron
Post by Trevor Wilson
**Irrelevant. Your claim, here and elsewhere, is that the TDA1541 is
'audibly perfect'. Therefore, given the inherent quality of the
device being repaired, it makes perfect sense to spend a reasonable
amount to service it. The American attitude, as typified by your
comments, is to chuck it out, rather than service it. That, in part,
is what is wrong with our society today.
It's always puzzled me why you write 'service' when you mean 'repair'.
Is that an Australian thing? Or a psychological trick to persuade the
punters
to spend more on a repair than it would cost to buy something newer
and better?
**Nothing of the sort. Here in Australia, we use English as it was intended.
Here is a dictionary definition of the word:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service
Post by Eiron
Over here servicing is topping up the oil on a Garrard 401
or adjusting the bias current and offset voltage on a Linsley Hood.
**The English do not necessarily understand how to use their own language.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Don Pearce
2010-03-09 21:02:31 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 06:54:41 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
Post by Trevor Wilson
**Nothing of the sort. Here in Australia, we use English as it was intended.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service
Post by Eiron
Over here servicing is topping up the oil on a Garrard 401
or adjusting the bias current and offset voltage on a Linsley Hood.
**The English do not necessarily understand how to use their own language.
That is the usual rather unhelpful dictionary definition.

In normal usage, Service refers to routine maintenance performed to a
schedule. Repair is an ad hoc event, setting right a fault. Some
repair may occur during a service, but that will be the exception
rather than the rule.

When I have my car serviced, the brakes and oil are changed and other
consumable parts are inspected. If something goes wrong during normal
use, I send it for repair, not a service. The repair is a specific
task.

d
Phil Allison
2010-03-09 22:14:25 UTC
Permalink
"Don Pearce"

"TW"

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service
Post by Don Pearce
Post by Trevor Wilson
**The English do not necessarily understand how to use their own language.
That is the usual rather unhelpful dictionary definition.
** Helps anyone who is NOT and congenital autistic fuckwit like YOU are.

See defs #28 and #32.

FUCKWIT !!
Post by Don Pearce
In normal usage, Service refers to routine maintenance performed to a
schedule. Repair is an ad hoc event, setting right a fault. Some
repair may occur during a service, but that will be the exception
rather than the rule.
** Then there is the use of the SAME word used as a verb or adjective:

Egs: " service technician ", " service workshop " and the phrase "sales
and service" in relation to electronic goods - all of which are widely used
in the UK.



.... Phil
Don Pearce
2010-03-09 22:27:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Allison
"Don Pearce"
"TW"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service
Post by Don Pearce
Post by Trevor Wilson
**The English do not necessarily understand how to use their own language.
That is the usual rather unhelpful dictionary definition.
** Helps anyone who is NOT and congenital autistic fuckwit like YOU are.
See defs #28 and #32.
FUCKWIT !!
Post by Don Pearce
In normal usage, Service refers to routine maintenance performed to a
schedule. Repair is an ad hoc event, setting right a fault. Some
repair may occur during a service, but that will be the exception
rather than the rule.
Egs: " service technician ", " service workshop " and the phrase "sales
and service" in relation to electronic goods - all of which are widely used
in the UK.
.... Phil
What you fail to understand is that what you write is not important
enough to notice.

d
Phil Allison
2010-03-09 22:28:27 UTC
Permalink
"Don Pearce Autistic MORON "
"TW"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service
Post by Don Pearce
Post by Trevor Wilson
**The English do not necessarily understand how to use their own language.
That is the usual rather unhelpful dictionary definition.
** Helps anyone who is NOT and congenital autistic fuckwit like YOU are.

See defs #28 and #32.

FUCKWIT !!
Post by Don Pearce
In normal usage, Service refers to routine maintenance performed to a
schedule. Repair is an ad hoc event, setting right a fault. Some
repair may occur during a service, but that will be the exception
rather than the rule.
** Then there is the use of the SAME word used as a verb or adjective:

Egs: " service technician ", " service workshop " and the phrase "sales
and service" in relation to electronic goods - all of which are widely used
in the UK.



.... Phil
Don Pearce
2010-03-10 06:25:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Allison
"Don Pearce Autistic MORON "
"TW"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service
Post by Don Pearce
Post by Trevor Wilson
**The English do not necessarily understand how to use their own language.
That is the usual rather unhelpful dictionary definition.
** Helps anyone who is NOT and congenital autistic fuckwit like YOU are.
See defs #28 and #32.
FUCKWIT !!
Post by Don Pearce
In normal usage, Service refers to routine maintenance performed to a
schedule. Repair is an ad hoc event, setting right a fault. Some
repair may occur during a service, but that will be the exception
rather than the rule.
Egs: " service technician ", " service workshop " and the phrase "sales
and service" in relation to electronic goods - all of which are widely used
in the UK.
.... Phil
Nurse! He's out of bed again.

d
Phil Allison
2010-03-10 08:56:26 UTC
Permalink
"Don Pearce Autistic MORON "
"TW"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service
Post by Don Pearce
Post by Trevor Wilson
**The English do not necessarily understand how to use their own language.
That is the usual rather unhelpful dictionary definition.
** Helps anyone who is NOT and congenital autistic fuckwit like YOU are.

See defs #28 and #32.

YOU PITA FUCKWIT !!
Post by Don Pearce
In normal usage, Service refers to routine maintenance performed to a
schedule. Repair is an ad hoc event, setting right a fault. Some
repair may occur during a service, but that will be the exception
rather than the rule.
** Then there is the use of the SAME word used as a verb or adjective:

Egs: " service technician ", " service workshop " and the phrase "sales
and service" in relation to electronic goods - all of which are widely used
in the UK.

See defs #28 and #32.

YOU PITA FUCKWIT !!




.... Phil
Dave Plowman (News)
2010-03-10 11:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Pearce
In normal usage, Service refers to routine maintenance performed to a
Post by Don Pearce
schedule. Repair is an ad hoc event, setting right a fault. Some
repair may occur during a service, but that will be the exception
rather than the rule.
Egs: " service technician ", " service workshop " and the phrase
"sales and service" in relation to electronic goods - all of which are
widely used in the UK.
Just because they are widely used doesn't make that use right. A bit like
using 'engineer' for anyone who can remove a cover plate.

'Service' is used because it sounds better to the amateur than repair.
Very little in the way of electronic goods require servicing - just repair
when they break. A service is done as a routine measure to help prevent
breakdown.
--
*How do you tell when you run out of invisible ink? *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Phil Allison
2010-03-10 12:19:25 UTC
Permalink
"Dave Plowman = Criminal Scumbag "
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Phil Allison
Egs: " service technician ", " service workshop " and the phrase
"sales and service" in relation to electronic goods - all of which are
widely used in the UK.
Just because they are widely used doesn't make that use right.
** Totally fucking stupid and 1000% WRONG.

Just like EVERY single thing this VILE FUCKWIT ever says.

Get cancer and FUCKING die you putrid pile of

PIG IGNORANT POMMY EXCREMENT !!





... Phil
Dave Plowman (News)
2010-03-10 13:50:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Allison
** Totally fucking stupid and 1000% WRONG.
Just like EVERY single thing this VILE FUCKWIT ever says.
Get cancer and FUCKING die you putrid pile of
PIG IGNORANT POMMY EXCREMENT !!
You should really bring out a book with all your pithy sayings.

Or make that a pamphlet.

Blank, of course.
--
*Most people have more than the average number of legs*

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Phil Allison
2010-03-10 13:56:44 UTC
Permalink
"Dave Plowman = Criminal Scumbag "
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Post by Phil Allison
Egs: " service technician ", " service workshop " and the phrase
"sales and service" in relation to electronic goods - all of which are
widely used in the UK.
Just because they are widely used doesn't make that use right.
** Totally fucking stupid and 1000% WRONG.

Just like EVERY single thing this VILE FUCKWIT ever says.

Get cancer and FUCKING die you putrid pile of

PIG IGNORANT POMMY EXCREMENT !!




... Phil
Dave Plowman (News)
2010-03-10 14:22:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Allison
** Totally fucking stupid and 1000% WRONG.
So we can add math to the things you don't understand?

Isn't it nice being lectured on the use of English by a potty mouthed
colonial?
--
*It is easier to get older than it is to get wiser.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
Trevor Wilson
2010-03-09 22:32:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Pearce
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 06:54:41 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
Post by Trevor Wilson
**Nothing of the sort. Here in Australia, we use English as it was intended.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service
Post by Eiron
Over here servicing is topping up the oil on a Garrard 401
or adjusting the bias current and offset voltage on a Linsley Hood.
**The English do not necessarily understand how to use their own language.
That is the usual rather unhelpful dictionary definition.
**I suggest you read ALL the definitions.
Post by Don Pearce
In normal usage, Service refers to routine maintenance performed to a
schedule. Repair is an ad hoc event, setting right a fault. Some
repair may occur during a service, but that will be the exception
rather than the rule.
When I have my car serviced, the brakes and oil are changed and other
consumable parts are inspected. If something goes wrong during normal
use, I send it for repair, not a service. The repair is a specific
task.
**As I stated: The English do not necessarily understand how to use their
own language.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Don Pearce
2010-03-10 06:24:19 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 09:32:51 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
Post by Trevor Wilson
Post by Don Pearce
In normal usage, Service refers to routine maintenance performed to a
schedule. Repair is an ad hoc event, setting right a fault. Some
repair may occur during a service, but that will be the exception
rather than the rule.
When I have my car serviced, the brakes and oil are changed and other
consumable parts are inspected. If something goes wrong during normal
use, I send it for repair, not a service. The repair is a specific
task.
**As I stated: The English do not necessarily understand how to use their
own language.
You can state all you like Trevor (what I tell you three times is
true, eh?). Of course your use of the word "necessarily" robs the
statement of all meaning. Nobody "necessarily" does anything - even
you. And of course I'm quite sure you stated it using an Australian
Interrogative Cadence, making it a question, the answer to which is
no, I'm not wrong.

d
David Looser
2010-03-10 10:53:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trevor Wilson
**As I stated: The English do not necessarily understand how to use their
own language.
A rather silly, no a *very* silly, remark.

The distinction between "service" and "repair" is clear and meaningful.
Servicing (in this context, the word has a wide range of meanings) is
routine and intended to keep the item concerned working as well as possible.
Depending on what sort of equipment we are talking about it might include
lubrication, adjustment or *routine* replacement of consumable items.

Repair is only undertaken when necessary, and is the restoration to working
order of a faulty item.

The above are how these words are used in English.

David.
Phil Allison
2010-03-10 12:25:15 UTC
Permalink
"David Looser = POMMY CUNTHEAD"
Post by Don Pearce
"Trevor Wilson"
Post by Trevor Wilson
**As I stated: The English do not necessarily understand how to use their
own language.
A rather silly, no a *very* silly, remark.
** It is an absolute FACT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- you asinine pile of pig ignorant pommy VOMIT
Post by Don Pearce
The distinction between "service" and "repair" is clear and meaningful.
Here is a dictionary definition of the word - CUNTHEAD !!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service

Read defs #28 and #32.

YOU ASD FUCKED POMMY FUCKWIT !!


THEN get cancer and DIE you stinking TROLL





.... Phil
David
2010-03-10 13:06:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Allison
"David Looser = POMMY CUNTHEAD"
- you asinine pile of pig ignorant pommy VOMIT
Here is a dictionary definition of the word - CUNTHEAD !!
YOU ASD FUCKED POMMY FUCKWIT !!
THEN get cancer and DIE you stinking TROLL
Very eloquently put Mr. Alison.
Shame your understanding of the English language isn't quite as good.

Regards

David.
Phil Allison
2010-03-10 13:08:40 UTC
Permalink
"David = POMMY CUNTHEAD"
Post by Don Pearce
"Trevor Wilson"
Post by Trevor Wilson
**As I stated: The English do not necessarily understand how to use their
own language.
A rather silly, no a *very* silly, remark.
** It is an absolute FACT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- you asinine pile of pig ignorant pommy VOMIT
Post by Don Pearce
The distinction between "service" and "repair" is clear and meaningful.
Here is a dictionary definition of the word - CUNTHEAD !!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service

Read defs #28 and #32.

YOU ASD FUCKED POMMY FUCKWIT !!


THEN get cancer and DIE you stinking TROLL





.... Phil
David
2010-03-10 12:56:05 UTC
Permalink
"Trevor Wilson" <***@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message news:***@mid.individual.net...

Don, Dave and David are correct.

Strange isn't it, that it's always so called English speakers that are not
English, that think they know better than the English at English.

David.
Bzzzzz....................repetition.
Phil Allison
2010-03-10 13:04:06 UTC
Permalink
"David" <***@selectfire.co.uk>
"Trevor Wilson"
Post by David
Don, Dave and David are correct.
** ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS they are !!!
Post by David
Strange isn't it, that it's always so called English speakers that are not
English, that think they know better than the English at English.
Here is a dictionary definition of the word

- YOU FUCKING ILLITERATE POMMY CUNTHEAD !!


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service

Read defs #28 and #32.

YOU ASD FUCKED POMMY FUCKWIT !!

THEN get cancer and DIE you stinking TROLL






.... Phil
David
2010-03-10 13:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phil Allison
** ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS they are !!!
Here is a dictionary definition of the word
- YOU FUCKING ILLITERATE POMMY CUNTHEAD !!
YOU ASD FUCKED POMMY FUCKWIT !!
THEN get cancer and DIE you stinking TROLL
http://dictionary.com has 'Color' as a word. This is not English.

QED
Phil Allison
2010-03-10 13:18:13 UTC
Permalink
"David" <***@selectfire.co.uk>
"Trevor Wilson"
Post by David
Don, Dave and David are correct.
** ABSOLUTE BOLLOCKS they are !!!
Post by David
Strange isn't it, that it's always so called English speakers that are not
English, that think they know better than the English at English.
Here is a dictionary definition of the word

- YOU FUCKING ILLITERATE POMMY CUNTHEAD !!


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service

Read defs #28 and #32.

YOU ASD FUCKED POMMY FUCKWIT !!


THEN get cancer and DIE -

you stinking AUTISTIC PEDANT !!!


Look those words up too -

rather big ones for a retarded pea brain like you.



.... Phil
Arny Krueger
2010-03-10 13:13:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
Don, Dave and David are correct.
Strange isn't it, that it's always so called English speakers that are not
English, that think they know better than the English at English.
Let's face it guys. The so-called English language is itself a hybrid of
European languages, some long dead. Nothing pure or well-defined about it.

Like any language that is as pervasive as English, there are numerous very
different dialects of English.

The idea that 70 million people in the UK are going to define how English
is used by 300 million people in the US can be easily dismissed. We won our
wars of independence from you (at least 3) and never seriously looked back.
Then we saved your sweet selves from your own folly at least twice. And you
want to teach us what???? ;-)

Heck, those same 70 million people in the UK have how much impact on the 20
million in Australia and 38 million in Canada? Well they sound more like
you than us, I guess.

And us 300 million in the US have how much impact on those relatively few 38
million in Canada? We live right on top of them and sell them their daily
meat, bread and everything else, and they sell us much of the same. So how
much influence do we have on how they use the language that some idealists
think we share? Not so much.

Live and let live!
David
2010-03-10 13:20:25 UTC
Permalink
So how much influence do we have on how they use the language that some
idealists think we share? Not so much.
Live and let live!
Indeed, I was just commenting that Don's original post was correct.
There was no need for Alison the felcher, to start getting aggressive.

Regards

David.
Phil Allison
2010-03-10 13:32:48 UTC
Permalink
"David" <***@selectfire.co.uk>


** You are nothing but a vile, cock sucking TROLL !!
Post by David
Post by Arny Krueger
Live and let live!
Indeed, I was just commenting that Don's original post was correct.
** You are nothing but a vile, cock sucking TROLL !!

Cancer is way too good for genetic defective SCUMBAGS like you.

FUCK OFF.



.... Phil
David
2010-03-10 13:34:57 UTC
Permalink
Indeed.
Phil Allison
2010-03-10 13:36:55 UTC
Permalink
"David" <***@selectfire.co.uk>

** You are nothing but a vile, cock sucking TROLL !!
Post by David
Post by Arny Krueger
Live and let live!
Indeed, I was just commenting that Don's original post was correct.
** You are nothing but a vile, cock sucking TROLL !!

Cancer is way too good for genetic defective SCUMBAGS like you.

FUCK OFF & DIE




.... Phil
David
2010-03-10 13:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Indeed.
Phil Allison
2010-03-10 13:58:20 UTC
Permalink
"David" <***@selectfire.co.uk>

** You are nothing but a VILE cock sucking TROLL !!
Post by David
Post by Arny Krueger
Live and let live!
Indeed, I was just commenting that Don's original post was correct.
** You are nothing but a VILE cock sucking TROLL !!

Cancer is way too good for genetic defective SCUMBAGS like you.

FUCK OFF & DIE now !!




.... Phil
David
2010-03-10 14:29:06 UTC
Permalink
Indeed Alison Felcher.
Jim Lesurf
2010-03-10 15:14:55 UTC
Permalink
In article <orydnRgE-***@giganews.com>, Arny
Krueger
Post by Arny Krueger
Post by David
Don, Dave and David are correct.
Strange isn't it, that it's always so called English speakers that are
not English, that think they know better than the English at English.
Let's face it guys. The so-called English language is itself a hybrid of
European languages, some long dead. Nothing pure or well-defined about it.
You left out all the other inputs to the hybrid. e.g. from the Indian
subcontinental languages. :-)

Slainte,

Jim
--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Don Pearce
2010-03-10 17:06:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arny Krueger
The idea that 70 million people in the UK are going to define how English
is used by 300 million people in the US can be easily dismissed. We won our
wars of independence from you (at least 3) and never seriously looked back.
Then we saved your sweet selves from your own folly at least twice. And you
want to teach us what???? ;-)
You won? The American war of independence war was fought between
Britain and France - you Americans were barely involved.

And as for the "we saved you" nonsense, no, that won't do at all. The
USA joined both wars on its own terms, and for its own reasons.
"Saving" us was not one of them.

And finally, it is Australian usage, not American that is under
discussion here.

d
David Looser
2010-03-10 18:24:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Pearce
And as for the "we saved you" nonsense, no, that won't do at all.
That's part of the "American myth", the idea that the USA was the cavalry
rushing in to save Europe from the Nazis. It is, of course, bunkum.
Post by Don Pearce
The
USA joined both wars on its own terms, and for its own reasons.
"Saving" us was not one of them.
To be fair I think it was *one* of them. But principally the USA joined WW2
(almost 2 years late!) because it was, itself, under attack.
Post by Don Pearce
And finally, it is Australian usage, not American that is under
discussion here.
Maybe the Americans also say "service" when they mean "repair"? Come to that
what's wrong with the good old-fashioned word "mend"?

David.
Don Pearce
2010-03-10 18:42:19 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:24:45 -0000, "David Looser"
Post by David Looser
Post by Don Pearce
And as for the "we saved you" nonsense, no, that won't do at all.
That's part of the "American myth", the idea that the USA was the cavalry
rushing in to save Europe from the Nazis. It is, of course, bunkum.
Post by Don Pearce
The
USA joined both wars on its own terms, and for its own reasons.
"Saving" us was not one of them.
To be fair I think it was *one* of them. But principally the USA joined WW2
(almost 2 years late!) because it was, itself, under attack.
Post by Don Pearce
And finally, it is Australian usage, not American that is under
discussion here.
Maybe the Americans also say "service" when they mean "repair"? Come to that
what's wrong with the good old-fashioned word "mend"?
David.
Mend, fix, make good, set it right, all of them perfectly good
synonyms.

d
Arny Krueger
2010-03-10 20:00:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Looser
Post by Don Pearce
And as for the "we saved you" nonsense, no, that won't do at all.
That's part of the "American myth", the idea that the USA was the cavalry
rushing in to save Europe from the Nazis. It is, of course, bunkum.
Of course your account is bunkum, because we didn't rush, we acted
deliberately. In the case of WW1 we dragged our feet until they were red and
bleeding. In the case of WW2, we again were dragged kicking and screaming
into the European part of the war.

And, we didn't save you. We helped you save yourself.
Post by David Looser
Post by Don Pearce
The USA joined both wars on its own terms, and for its own reasons.
That comes with being a sovereign nation. In context, a truism.

If we wouldn't have jumped into either war, much of Europe would be under
German control, which seems to have happened anyway... ;-)
Post by David Looser
Post by Don Pearce
"Saving" us was not one of them.
Yup, and similar logic shows that there was no holocaust. ;-)
Post by David Looser
To be fair I think it was *one* of them. But principally the USA joined
WW2 (almost 2 years late!) because it was, itself, under attack.
The event that tipped the scales was that were under direct attack by Japan
in several places in the Pacific. Then, for some reason Hitler declared war
on us.
Don Pearce
2010-03-10 20:06:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arny Krueger
If we wouldn't have jumped into either war, much of Europe would be under
German control, which seems to have happened anyway... ;-)
I don't understand your use of the word "wouldn't" in this context. It
is a conditional without benefit of a condition. Do you mean "if we
hadn't"?

d
David Looser
2010-03-10 22:31:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Pearce
Post by Arny Krueger
If we wouldn't have jumped into either war, much of Europe would be under
German control, which seems to have happened anyway... ;-)
I don't understand your use of the word "wouldn't" in this context. It
is a conditional without benefit of a condition. Do you mean "if we
hadn't"?
Anyway it's crap. US involvement in WW1 was not critical to the outcome.

Whilst the conclusion that "much of Europe would be under German control"
after WW2 is sheer speculation. Hitler had shown himself to be his own worst
enemy as a military commander. He made a thoroughly unwise decision to
invade Russia (after having failed to gain air superiority over Britain, a
significant German failure suffered *before* the US entered the war) which
resulted in a Russian invasion of Germany. Under those circumstances a
continuing German conquest over more than France and the Benelux countries
(at most) seems highly unlikely.

David.
Eiron
2010-03-10 21:43:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Looser
Post by Don Pearce
And as for the "we saved you" nonsense, no, that won't do at all.
That's part of the "American myth", the idea that the USA was the cavalry
rushing in to save Europe from the Nazis. It is, of course, bunkum.
Post by Don Pearce
The
USA joined both wars on its own terms, and for its own reasons.
"Saving" us was not one of them.
To be fair I think it was *one* of them. But principally the USA joined WW2
(almost 2 years late!) because it was, itself, under attack.
Post by Don Pearce
And finally, it is Australian usage, not American that is under
discussion here.
Maybe the Americans also say "service" when they mean "repair"? Come to that
what's wrong with the good old-fashioned word "mend"?
The OED says that 'service' in this context is an American term.
So Arny should have the last word on the subject.
--
Eiron.
Trevor Wilson
2010-03-10 22:08:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Eiron
Post by David Looser
Post by Don Pearce
And as for the "we saved you" nonsense, no, that won't do at all.
That's part of the "American myth", the idea that the USA was the cavalry
rushing in to save Europe from the Nazis. It is, of course, bunkum.
Post by Don Pearce
The
USA joined both wars on its own terms, and for its own reasons.
"Saving" us was not one of them.
To be fair I think it was *one* of them. But principally the USA joined
WW2 (almost 2 years late!) because it was, itself, under attack.
Post by Don Pearce
And finally, it is Australian usage, not American that is under
discussion here.
Maybe the Americans also say "service" when they mean "repair"? Come to
that what's wrong with the good old-fashioned word "mend"?
The OED says that 'service' in this context is an American term.
**Not according to the Oxford English Dictionary:

http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/service?view=uk

Nor the (Australian) Macquarie Dictionary (not available free on line).
Post by Eiron
So Arny should have the last word on the subject.
**Or you could understand the correct usage of the term 'service' in the
context implied in all the dictionary definitions supplied to you.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
David Looser
2010-03-10 22:29:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trevor Wilson
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/service?view=uk
Spot the word "routine" in that definition.

In English English "service" is routine maintenance, NOT the repair of
something that has failed. However much you seem to wish it otherwise.


David.
David Looser
2010-03-10 22:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Looser
Post by Trevor Wilson
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/service?view=uk
Spot the word "routine" in that definition.
In English English "service" is routine maintenance, NOT the repair of
something that has failed. However much you seem to wish it otherwise.
Actually there is other point. If you call repair "servicing", how do you
distinguish that from actual servicing?

David.
Trevor Wilson
2010-03-10 22:35:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Looser
Post by David Looser
Post by Trevor Wilson
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/service?view=uk
Spot the word "routine" in that definition.
In English English "service" is routine maintenance, NOT the repair of
something that has failed. However much you seem to wish it otherwise.
Actually there is other point. If you call repair "servicing", how do you
distinguish that from actual servicing?
**As can be seen from the dictionary definitions I have already supplied,
the two terms are interchangable.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
David Looser
2010-03-10 22:41:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trevor Wilson
**As can be seen from the dictionary definitions I have already supplied,
the two terms are interchangable.
That was my point. *IF* the two terms are interchangeable you introduce an
unnecessary element of ambiguity. In England the two terms have clear,
distinct meanings, I see no point in muddling them up.

David.
Trevor Wilson
2010-03-10 23:05:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Looser
Post by Trevor Wilson
**As can be seen from the dictionary definitions I have already supplied,
the two terms are interchangable.
That was my point. *IF* the two terms are interchangeable you introduce an
unnecessary element of ambiguity. In England the two terms have clear,
distinct meanings, I see no point in muddling them up.
**I supplied an Oxford English Dictionary definition, for those who regard
such a tome as the ultimate reference.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
Don Pearce
2010-03-11 06:12:44 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:05:38 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
Post by Trevor Wilson
Post by David Looser
Post by Trevor Wilson
**As can be seen from the dictionary definitions I have already supplied,
the two terms are interchangable.
That was my point. *IF* the two terms are interchangeable you introduce an
unnecessary element of ambiguity. In England the two terms have clear,
distinct meanings, I see no point in muddling them up.
**I supplied an Oxford English Dictionary definition, for those who regard
such a tome as the ultimate reference.
It isn't. Dictionaries are what they have always been - a rough guide
including many words that are peripherally related rather than
synonymous.. The ultimate arbiter is current British usage. Of course
in news groups that begin with aus. or us. you may follow whatever
perversions of the language are current in those countries, but here
it is British English.

d
tony sayer
2010-03-11 08:04:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Pearce
On Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:05:38 +1100, "Trevor Wilson"
Post by Trevor Wilson
Post by David Looser
Post by Trevor Wilson
**As can be seen from the dictionary definitions I have already supplied,
the two terms are interchangable.
That was my point. *IF* the two terms are interchangeable you introduce an
unnecessary element of ambiguity. In England the two terms have clear,
distinct meanings, I see no point in muddling them up.
**I supplied an Oxford English Dictionary definition, for those who regard
such a tome as the ultimate reference.
It isn't. Dictionaries are what they have always been - a rough guide
including many words that are peripherally related rather than
synonymous.. The ultimate arbiter is current British usage. Of course
in news groups that begin with aus. or us. you may follow whatever
perversions of the language are current in those countries,
but here
it is British English.
d
English English, if you please Mr Pearce;)...
--
Tony Sayer
David Looser
2010-03-11 08:12:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trevor Wilson
Post by David Looser
Post by Trevor Wilson
**As can be seen from the dictionary definitions I have already
supplied, the two terms are interchangable.
That was my point. *IF* the two terms are interchangeable you introduce
an unnecessary element of ambiguity. In England the two terms have clear,
distinct meanings, I see no point in muddling them up.
**I supplied an Oxford English Dictionary definition, for those who regard
such a tome as the ultimate reference.
The OED wants to list all the usages as they hear of. Just because a meaning
is included it doesn't mean that it's commonly used.

Put it like this, in over 40 years of repairing things and servicing things,
and getting other people to repair or service things for me, I had never,
before this thread started, come across *anybody* using the word "service"
when they actually meant "repair". It's also clear from the response to this
thread that all the UK residents agree with me, and it's only the Yanks and
Aussies who don't.

The word "service" has a huge raft of meanings, it doesn't need another.
Whilst to the best of my knowledge "repair" only has two: apart from the
common meaning of "to mend" the only other I know is the rarely used meaning
of "to go somewhere" as in "after the meeting we could all repair to the pub
for a pint". It seems to me to be daft to load "service" with yet another
meaning when "repair" is there and avaliable to be used.

David.
Iain Churches
2010-03-11 08:57:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Looser
Post by Trevor Wilson
Post by David Looser
Post by Trevor Wilson
**As can be seen from the dictionary definitions I have already
supplied, the two terms are interchangable.
That was my point. *IF* the two terms are interchangeable you introduce
an unnecessary element of ambiguity. In England the two terms have
clear, distinct meanings, I see no point in muddling them up.
**I supplied an Oxford English Dictionary definition, for those who
regard such a tome as the ultimate reference.
The OED wants to list all the usages as they hear of. Just because a
meaning is included it doesn't mean that it's commonly used.
Put it like this, in over 40 years of repairing things and servicing
things, and getting other people to repair or service things for me, I had
never, before this thread started, come across *anybody* using the word
"service" when they actually meant "repair". It's also clear from the
response to this thread that all the UK residents agree with me, and it's
only the Yanks and Aussies who don't.
The word "service" has a huge raft of meanings, it doesn't need another.
Whilst to the best of my knowledge "repair" only has two: apart from the
common meaning of "to mend" the only other I know is the rarely used
meaning of "to go somewhere" as in "after the meeting we could all repair
to the pub for a pint". It seems to me to be daft to load "service" with
yet another meaning when "repair" is there and avaliable to be used.
Hmm. Interesting. I have just asked my Swedish colleague if he
can diffeerentiate between "service" and "repair" in English. He
looked at me as if I were mad, and said "Surely the two are
totally different things? You repair something that is broken,
but service something as a part of routine scheduled maintenance"

He gave "car service" and "crash repair" as good examples to
illustrate that he reconginsed the difference.

This is absolutely correct IMO

Interesting that a Swedish person has a better command
of English than the American and Oz posters on this group.
He is the same chap who commented to me, not long ago,
"If I were and Englishman, I would be greatly offended
by the way the Americans have debased and corrupted
your language.

Iain
David
2010-03-11 09:33:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Iain Churches
Hmm. Interesting. I have just asked my Swedish colleague if he
can diffeerentiate between "service" and "repair" in English. He
looked at me as if I were mad, and said "Surely the two are
totally different things? You repair something that is broken,
but service something as a part of routine scheduled maintenance"
He gave "car service" and "crash repair" as good examples to
illustrate that he reconginsed the difference.
This is absolutely correct IMO
Well at least they teach English in Sweden then.
My French friend, a translator, has impeccable English but I once heard her
use the word 'gotten'! I was disgusted and put her straight.
Jim Blog
2010-03-11 10:34:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by David
My French friend, a translator, has impeccable English but I once heard her
use the word 'gotten'! I was disgusted and put her straight.
Did she say? "I've gotten sick of your constant bickering."



--
"Tut, tut, child! . Everything's got a moral, if only you can find it"
Phil Allison
2010-03-11 12:50:58 UTC
Permalink
"David" <***@selectfire.co.uk>

** You are nothing but a VILE cock sucking TROLL !!
Post by David
Post by Arny Krueger
Live and let live!
Indeed, I was just commenting that Don's original post was correct.
** You are nothing but a VILE cock sucking TROLL !!

Cancer is way too good for genetic defective SCUMBAGS like you.

FUCK OFF & DIE now !!




.... Phil
Dave Plowman (News)
2010-03-11 09:54:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Iain Churches
Hmm. Interesting. I have just asked my Swedish colleague if he
can diffeerentiate between "service" and "repair" in English. He
looked at me as if I were mad, and said "Surely the two are
totally different things? You repair something that is broken,
but service something as a part of routine scheduled maintenance"
He gave "car service" and "crash repair" as good examples to
illustrate that he reconginsed the difference.
This is absolutely correct IMO
Interesting that a Swedish person has a better command
of English than the American and Oz posters on this group.
He is the same chap who commented to me, not long ago,
"If I were and Englishman, I would be greatly offended
by the way the Americans have debased and corrupted
your language.
Think it's sometimes used as adspeak. 'For sale - Bloggs amplifier,
recently serviced by makers'

Sounds so much better than repaired.
--
*Always drink upstream from the herd *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
David
2010-03-11 10:11:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Think it's sometimes used as adspeak. 'For sale - Bloggs amplifier,
recently serviced by makers'
This is the correct usage though.
My Naim amps work fine at the moment but could probably do with a service
(re-cap etc.) to bring them back to their best.
Dave Plowman (News)
2010-03-11 10:44:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Think it's sometimes used as adspeak. 'For sale - Bloggs amplifier,
recently serviced by makers'
This is the correct usage though. My Naim amps work fine at the moment
but could probably do with a service (re-cap etc.) to bring them back
to their best.
I'd call that a repair.
--
*Elephants are the only mammals that can't jump *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
David
2010-03-11 10:51:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
This is the correct usage though. My Naim amps work fine at the moment
but could probably do with a service (re-cap etc.) to bring them back
to their best.
I'd call that a repair.
They are not damaged.
Capacitors wear out, they are a consumable. No difference from spark plugs
in a car being replaced. Part of a service to get it's best performance.
Jim Lesurf
2010-03-11 12:14:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dave Plowman (News)
This is the correct usage though. My Naim amps work fine at the
moment but could probably do with a service (re-cap etc.) to bring
them back to their best.
I'd call that a repair.
They are not damaged. Capacitors wear out, they are a consumable.
In the same sense that other components like transistors, resistors, and -
to drag this back on topic - a DAC IC can age, yes. Does that mean Oddjob's
speakers need a 'service' or a 'repair'? ;->

However despite the above I've personally happily used many bits of
domestic kit for decades with no actual sign that the caps need changing.
So the degree to which this is 'service' does seem to depend on a mix of
the design, use, and choice of the source of the components.

But then, I wouldn't have chosen to use older designs of Naim equipment
anyway for other reasons... :-)

Slainte,

Jim
--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Phil Allison
2010-03-11 12:51:04 UTC
Permalink
"David" <***@selectfire.co.uk>

** You are nothing but a VILE cock sucking TROLL !!
Post by David
Post by Arny Krueger
Live and let live!
Indeed, I was just commenting that Don's original post was correct.
** You are nothing but a VILE cock sucking TROLL !!

Cancer is way too good for genetic defective SCUMBAGS like you.

FUCK OFF & DIE now !!




.... Phil

Arny Krueger
2010-03-11 12:24:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Iain Churches
Hmm. Interesting. I have just asked my Swedish colleague if he
can diffeerentiate between "service" and "repair" in English. He
looked at me as if I were mad, and said "Surely the two are
totally different things? You repair something that is broken,
but service something as a part of routine scheduled maintenance"
Glad to see that someone here has at least a passing familiarity with the
word that really makes the difference clear: Maintenance. Too bad so many
people here are so full of themselves and their own perceptions of their
authority and perfection.

Service - the act of serving or assisting someone. This includes both
repairing and maintaining. It also includes many other things such as
serving food.

Repair - the service of correcting a fault, such as those due to wear and
tear, or accident.

Maintenance - routine service that puts off or circumvents common faults by
making premptive changes to areas subject to predictable degradation, such
as cleaning and applying fresh lubrication to a bearing.

IOW, both repair and maintenance are services, but many other things are
services as well. In general the same service organizations and service
people provide both repair and maintenance. The office copier service man
repairs faults and also performs scheduled maintenance.
David
2010-03-11 12:50:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Arny Krueger
Service - the act of serving or assisting someone. This includes both
repairing and maintaining. It also includes many other things such as
serving food.
Repair - the service of correcting a fault, such as those due to wear and
tear, or accident.
Maintenance - routine service that puts off or circumvents common faults
by making premptive changes to areas subject to predictable degradation,
such as cleaning and applying fresh lubrication to a bearing.
IOW, both repair and maintenance are services, but many other things are
services as well. In general the same service organizations and service
people provide both repair and maintenance. The office copier service man
repairs faults and also performs scheduled maintenance.
You've nearly got it!

Just swap the two words Service & Maintenance over above and you're spot on.

Maintenance includes both service and repair.
By servicing and repairing as necessary you maintain the continued optimum
function of something.
Eiron
2010-03-11 09:19:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Trevor Wilson
Post by Eiron
Post by David Looser
Post by Don Pearce
And as for the "we saved you" nonsense, no, that won't do at all.
That's part of the "American myth", the idea that the USA was the cavalry
rushing in to save Europe from the Nazis. It is, of course, bunkum.
Post by Don Pearce
The
USA joined both wars on its own terms, and for its own reasons.
"Saving" us was not one of them.
To be fair I think it was *one* of them. But principally the USA joined
WW2 (almost 2 years late!) because it was, itself, under attack.
Post by Don Pearce
And finally, it is Australian usage, not American that is under
discussion here.
Maybe the Americans also say "service" when they mean "repair"? Come to
that what's wrong with the good old-fashioned word "mend"?
The OED says that 'service' in this context is an American term.
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/service?view=uk
Nor the (Australian) Macquarie Dictionary (not available free on line).
Post by Eiron
So Arny should have the last word on the subject.
**Or you could understand the correct usage of the term 'service' in the
context implied in all the dictionary definitions supplied to you.
From the *real* version of the Oxford English Dictionary:

"2. To perform routine maintenance or repair work on (a motor vehicle or
other piece of equipment). orig. U.S.
1926 Amer. Speech II. 112/2 The automobile dealer says: ‘Run the new car
five hundred miles at twenty or less an hour, then have it thoroughly
serviced with grease and oil.’ 1930 Bookman Dec. 398 Probably the
greatest cost in Television will be that expended for servicing the
equipment. 1935 A. P. HERBERT in Punch 27 Feb. 236/1, I denounce,
Comrades, the foul new verb ‘to service’, an invention, I believe, of
someone in the motor-trade. 1949 ‘G. ORWELL’ Nineteen Eighty-Four II.
131 She enjoyed her work, which consisted chiefly in running and
servicing a powerful but tricky electric motor. 1958 Listener 23 Oct.
655/2 Vehicles{em}whether moving, parked, unloading or being
serviced{em}have already taken charge of the present ground level. 1978
R. LEWIS Uncertain Sound vi. 154 Your car was serviced on the Thursday."
--
Eiron.
David
2010-03-11 10:12:24 UTC
Permalink
QED
David
2010-03-11 09:57:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Looser
To be fair I think it was *one* of them. But principally the USA joined
WW2 (almost 2 years late!) because it was, itself, under attack.
That and the fact that after plenty of rejected pleas to America by
Churchill, he finally, on the third of July 1940, committed the treacherous
war crime of blowing up his own allies. This proved to America that Britain
had enough back bone not to give in to the Germans, so they offered their
help.
Even though the French government had pretty much surrendered to the
Germans, the French Navy had no intentions to do so, but as they didn't pass
their fleet over to British control, Churchill blew them up.

And we wonder why a lot of French are not to keen on the British.
David
2010-03-11 10:14:20 UTC
Permalink
Edit : 'too'
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