Beethoven Sonatas: Les Adieux, Tempest, Waldstein, and early sonatas.

Post by v***@protonmail.com
Just got Gould's 6-CD set, and have Gilels's Tempest/Waldstein/Les Adieux on the way.
Any recommendations for the early sonatas in particular, as well as others, esp Tempest?
Thank you.
C.

My favorites are Lupu

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sonatas-Moonlight-Pathetique-Waldstein/dp/B0000041TB

... and Moravec

https://www.amazon.com/Moravec-Plays-Beethoven-Piano-Sonatas/dp/B00005YP1W

... for the "name" sonatas.
Not sure who to recommend for the earlier ones.

MIFrost

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-15 23:18:39 UTC

My favorites are Lupu
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sonatas-Moonlight-Pathetique-Waldstein/dp/B0000041TB
... and Moravec
https://www.amazon.com/Moravec-Plays-Beethoven-Piano-Sonatas/dp/B00005YP1W
... for the "name" sonatas.
Not sure who to recommend for the earlier ones.
MIFrost

Thanks very much. I haven't heard either of them, though I'd been thinking of getting this disc of Moravec in Mozart for awhile:

https://www.supraphon.com/album/409-mozart-piano-sonatas-k-333-457-570-fantasia-in-c-minor-k-475

I have too many Mozart piano discs already, though. ;) I will check out Lupu's Beethoven as well.

r***@gmail.com

2020-04-15 23:54:00 UTC

Richter in Prague has some excellent Beethoven sonatas, the Tempest in particular. Gilels (DG) has a great Waldstein. Arrau has excellent recordings on EMI(now Warner, but look for the old EMI sets), and Philips in both analogue and digital stereo. Heidsieck (EMI France) has an excellent complete set with a touch and style quite different from the above.
There are too many to list really.

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-16 00:24:14 UTC

Post by r***@gmail.com

Thanks for that Richter in Prague recommendation, in particular. Hearing a lttle clip of Gilels's Waldstein
quickly convinced me to get the disc (nice sound, too). Arrau.. well, his playing seldom has made sense to me, but the loss is mine, I think; I will check him out again. Heidsieck I haven't heard or
heard of, but will do so. Thanks again.

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-16 00:32:30 UTC

Sonata 7, op.10/3 is one I'd like to hear someone other than Gould playing: a little too much of the
Gould Treatment, in the opening mvt especially.

Bozo

2020-04-16 00:58:13 UTC

"Tempest", 70's Ashkenazy on Decca :

" Waldstein" , Graffman on Columbia :

" Waldstein", live, Paul Jacobs on Arbiter Records

All Sonatas Nos.1 -20, Schnabel.

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-16 01:19:24 UTC

"Tempest", 70's Ashkenazy on Decca : http://youtu.be/RseSgFMbS_k
" Waldstein" , Graffman on Columbia : http://youtu.be/4Hdb57PV86E
" Waldstein", live, Paul Jacobs on Arbiter Records
All Sonatas Nos.1 -20, Schnabel.

Thank you- was it you who also rec'd Ashkenazy for Mozart K511 + , quite awhile back?
Still need to hear that one. I'll also expose my ignorance and say that what I've heard of
Schnabel has been too sloppy for my taste, esp rhythmically, so I've shied away.

Al Eisner

2020-04-16 19:04:28 UTC

YMMV, but I find the complete Schnabel set is indespensible for its]
interpretations, even if the execution is sometimes sloppy; it's not really
that bad, and I can generally overlook it. (My set is the individua;
CDs on Naxos, others could comment better on alternative productions.)
There are only two sontas which don't work for me at all: one happens
to be The Tempest (it may partly be an issue of dynamic range), the
other is Op. 101. The Hammerklavier is a special case: the first
movement is just right in terms of tempo and interpretation and I can
forgive his failure to always execute perfectly (but not the first few
few notes(. The slow movement (which is not sloppy) may be the best
ever recorded, just wonderful. The final fugue, however, is not
convincint to me at his pace.

Another very good set is Kovacevitch. I've heard about 2/3 of it before
acquiring the recent re-release of the cull set (which I have not
gone through). His approach tends to be appropriately forceful (yet
the intrinsically forceful Waldstein doesn't work for me ). I recall
his Op. 101 is very good. And he is excellent technically.

--
Al Eisner

Bozo

2020-04-16 19:18:15 UTC

Post by Al Eisner
YMMV, but I find the complete Schnabel set is indespensible for its]
interpretations, even if the execution is sometimes sloppy; it's not really
that bad, and I can generally overlook it.

Agreed, although I find Schnabel better in the earlier Sonatas, although his "Waldstein " is very worth hearing.

c***@gmail.com

2020-04-16 20:03:03 UTC

Agreed, although I find Schnabel better in the earlier Sonatas, although his "Waldstein " is very worth hearing.

I also love Schnabel in the earlier sonatas. Anyone who wants his view of them (more or less) without the technical and sonic limitations should consider the Claude Frank set ;-)

The Warner issue of Kovacevich's EMIs is admittedly a great bargain--almost worth the price for the opp 119 and 126 Bagatelles alone--but I find many of the performances over-aggressive, esp. in the early works.

AC

graham

2020-04-17 00:38:12 UTC

Post by c***@gmail.com
The Warner issue of Kovacevich's EMIs is admittedly a great bargain--almost worth the price for the opp 119 and 126 Bagatelles alone--but I find many of the performances over-aggressive, esp. in the early works.
AC

But that aggressiveness in the Op2 set is what I find stimulating.

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-16 19:48:10 UTC

Post by Al Eisner

YMMV, but I find the complete Schnabel set is indespensible for its]
interpretations, even if the execution is sometimes sloppy; it's not really
that bad, and I can generally overlook it. (My set is the individua;
CDs on Naxos, others could comment better on alternative productions.)
There are only two sontas which don't work for me at all: one happens
to be The Tempest (it may partly be an issue of dynamic range), the
other is Op. 101. The Hammerklavier is a special case: the first
movement is just right in terms of tempo and interpretation and I can
forgive his failure to always execute perfectly (but not the first few
few notes(. The slow movement (which is not sloppy) may be the best
ever recorded, just wonderful. The final fugue, however, is not
convincint to me at his pace.
Another very good set is Kovacevitch. I've heard about 2/3 of it before
acquiring the recent re-release of the cull set (which I have not
gone through). His approach tends to be appropriately forceful (yet
the intrinsically forceful Waldstein doesn't work for me ). I recall
his Op. 101 is very good. And he is excellent technically.
--
Al Eisner

Thanks for your take on Schnabel in particular, as well as to the other commenters. Sometimes an
entry point, or frame, is a big help. Will be checking out Kovacevitch as well- so many positive
opinions of him, it seems..

C.

Dan Fowler

2020-04-16 20:07:14 UTC

Post by Al Eisner

Thank you- was it you who also rec'd Ashkenazy for Mozart K511 + , quite awhile back?
Still need to hear that one. I'll also expose my ignorance and say
that what I've heard of
Schnabel has been too sloppy for my taste, esp rhythmically, so I've shied away.

YMMV, but I find the complete Schnabel set is indespensible for its]
interpretations, even if the execution is sometimes sloppy; it's not really
that bad, and I can generally overlook it. (My set is the individua;
CDs on Naxos, others could comment better on alternative productions.)
There are only two sontas which don't work for me at all: one happens
to be The Tempest (it may partly be an issue of dynamic range), the
other is Op. 101. The Hammerklavier is a special case: the first
movement is just right in terms of tempo and interpretation and I can
forgive his failure to always execute perfectly (but not the first few
few notes(. The slow movement (which is not sloppy) may be the best
ever recorded, just wonderful. The final fugue, however, is not
convincint to me at his pace.
Another very good set is Kovacevitch. I've heard about 2/3 of it before
acquiring the recent re-release of the cull set (which I have not
gone through). His approach tends to be appropriately forceful (yet
the intrinsically forceful Waldstein doesn't work for me ). I recall
his Op. 101 is very good. And he is excellent technically.
--
Al Eisner

Thanks for your take on Schnabel in particular, as well as to the other
commenters. Sometimes an
entry point, or frame, is a big help. Will be checking out Kovacevitch
as well- so many positive
opinions of him, it seems..
C.

I fully second Alan’s suggestion of the Big and Bigger Beethoven boxes on
Amazon to get Bruce Hungerford’s sonata performances along with some other
delightful surprises. Hungerford is consistently excellent.

MELMOTH13

2020-04-17 07:14:18 UTC

Post by Dan Fowler
I fully second Alan’s suggestion of the Big and Bigger Beethoven boxes on
Amazon to get Bruce Hungerford’s sonata performances along with some other
delightful surprises. Hungerford is consistently excellent.

Ciccolini...
Del Pueyo...

graham

2020-04-16 01:22:57 UTC

For the three Op2 sonatas, I recommend Kovacevich.

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-16 01:30:08 UTC

Post by graham

For the three Op2 sonatas, I recommend Kovacevich.

Thanks very much- I have never heard him, believe it or not, and need to.

2020-04-16 01:34:23 UTC

For the Tempest sonata, my favorites are Annie Fischer, Sviatoslav Richter, Gilels and Gulda (Amadeo/Brilliant Classics.)

George

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-16 01:44:40 UTC

Post by Me

For the Tempest sonata, my favorites are Annie Fischer, Sviatoslav Richter, Gilels and Gulda (Amadeo/Brilliant Classics.)
George

Thanks very much. Looking forward to hearing the Gilels disc, and want to hear the others you mention as well. The only Gulda I've heard/has was a B. Concerto- #1 I think, c/w Mzt K.453, I think. Wish I still had that LP.

JohnGavin

2020-04-16 10:23:13 UTC

I particularly enjoyed Igor Levit’s Tempest. For op. 2 no. 3 the outstanding performance is by Michelangeli. Gilels’ Waldstein on DG strikes me as a great performance.

MiNe109

2020-04-16 12:30:27 UTC

Post by JohnGavin
I particularly enjoyed Igor Levit’s Tempest. For op. 2 no. 3 the
outstanding performance is by Michelangeli. Gilels’ Waldstein on DG
strikes me as a great performance.

Seconded. Add Michelangeli's Op 7.

JohnGavin

2020-04-16 13:49:33 UTC

Post by JohnGavin
I particularly enjoyed Igor Levit’s Tempest. For op. 2 no. 3 the
outstanding performance is by Michelangeli. Gilels’ Waldstein on DG
strikes me as a great performance.

Seconded. Add Michelangeli's Op 7.

Agreed!! The reason I didn’t mention it is a bit of controversy regarding the tempo of the 1st movement. But it not only works for me - it transcends the more accepted recordings.

u***@gmail.com

2020-04-17 02:18:38 UTC

Op.2 no.3: Rubinstein. Ditto for other LvB sonatas.

c***@gmail.com

2020-04-16 14:20:07 UTC

For the early sonatas, you ought to hear Schnabel. For more modern sound, try Gulda and Hungerford. Listening to Hungerford will set you back 99 cents x 2:

https://www.amazon.com/Big-Beethoven-Box-Various-artists/dp/B00AOMZHSO/

https://www.amazon.com/Bigger-Beethoven-Box-Various-artists/dp/B01BHELQD2.

You get a lot of other good stuff in both boxes too :-)

For Gulda, especially strong in the earlier sonatas imo, I recommend the set originally issued by Amadeo. If you can find a cheap copy of the Brilliant reissue (now o/p, I think), go for it. Otherwise, this might be your best bet: https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Sonata-Concertos-Box/dp/B000BQV52A/.

Specifically for "Tempest," try to find a copy of Bruno-Leonardo Gelber's Denon recording or listen on Spotify,

AC

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-16 15:39:54 UTC

https://www.amazon.com/Big-Beethoven-Box-Various-artists/dp/B00AOMZHSO/
https://www.amazon.com/Bigger-Beethoven-Box-Various-artists/dp/B01BHELQD2.
You get a lot of other good stuff in both boxes too :-)
For Gulda, especially strong in the earlier sonatas imo, I recommend the set originally issued by Amadeo. If you can find a cheap copy of the Brilliant reissue (now o/p, I think), go for it. Otherwise, this might be your best bet: https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Sonata-Concertos-Box/dp/B000BQV52A/.
Specifically for "Tempest," try to find a copy of Bruno-Leonardo Gelber's Denon recording or listen on Spotify,
AC

Thanks for all that, and to the commenters above as well. Gulda is sounding like a must-have, now.

s***@nycap.rr.com

2020-04-16 16:25:13 UTC

Post by v***@protonmail.com
Thanks for all that, and to the commenters above as well. Gulda is sounding like a must-have, now.

Gulda is wonderful. This is a review of it from ClassicsToday.

https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12309/

I have no idea why it's only available now at Amazon for a ridiculously high price. I got it myself about five or ten years ago and it's one of my favorites. Good luck picking it up though.

MIFrost

c***@gmail.com

2020-04-16 18:11:52 UTC

Post by v***@protonmail.com
Thanks for all that, and to the commenters above as well. Gulda is sounding like a must-have, now.

Gulda is wonderful. This is a review of it from ClassicsToday.
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12309/
I have no idea why it's only available now at Amazon for a ridiculously high price. I got it myself about five or ten years ago and it's one of my favorites. Good luck picking it up though.
MIFrost

You think $38 for a 12-CD set comprising the sonatas and concerti in excellent performances is a "ridiculously high price" (https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Sonata-Concertos-Box/dp/B000BQV52A/)? More expensive than rock-bottom Brilliant, I suppose (sans concerti and o/p anyway), but "ridiculously high"? C'mon!

AC

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-16 18:26:51 UTC

Post by v***@protonmail.com
Thanks for all that, and to the commenters above as well. Gulda is sounding like a must-have, now.

Gulda is wonderful. This is a review of it from ClassicsToday.
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12309/
I have no idea why it's only available now at Amazon for a ridiculously high price. I got it myself about five or ten years ago and it's one of my favorites. Good luck picking it up though.
MIFrost

Does anyone happen to know if those are the Amadeo recordings at that link? If so, I'm gonna snag it.

c***@gmail.com

2020-04-16 18:52:38 UTC

Post by v***@protonmail.com
Thanks for all that, and to the commenters above as well. Gulda is sounding like a must-have, now.

Gulda is wonderful. This is a review of it from ClassicsToday.
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12309/
I have no idea why it's only available now at Amazon for a ridiculously high price. I got it myself about five or ten years ago and it's one of my favorites. Good luck picking it up though.
MIFrost

Does anyone happen to know if those are the Amadeo recordings at that link? If so, I'm gonna snag it.

Yes, the sonatas are the Amadeo recordings; the concerti are Deccas. You can verify by clicking on and enlarging the back cover image.

AC

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-16 19:44:14 UTC

Thanks very much- I should have looked myself. :)

C.

s***@nycap.rr.com

2020-04-16 18:39:34 UTC

Post by s***@nycap.rr.com
I have no idea why it's only available now at Amazon for a ridiculously high price. I got it myself about five or ten years ago and it's one of my favorites. Good luck picking it up though.
MIFrost

This is what I was referring to with my "ridiculously high price" comment:
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sonatas-Piano-Friedrich-Gulda/dp/B000B8WEL4

MIFrost

weary flake

2020-04-16 20:20:59 UTC

Post by v***@protonmail.com
Thanks for all that, and to the commenters above as well. Gulda is
sounding like a must-have, now.

Gulda is wonderful. This is a review of it from ClassicsToday.
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12309/
I have no idea why it's only available now at Amazon for a ridiculously
high price. I got it myself about five or ten years ago and it's one of
my favorites. Good luck picking it up though.
MIFrost

The Amadeo Gulda sonatas are also available in the Beethoven
Edition on Brilliant from 2007:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VBNRE4/

Some things said by others is that the German Eloquence CDs
have the AMSI logo with added fake surround sound on it:

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Sonata-Concertos-Box/dp/B000BQV52A/

and the Amadeo label CDs have added fake reverb:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004SA9B/

So the original Amadeo recordings are best represented by
Brilliant either on the separate box:

https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sonatas-Piano-Friedrich-Gulda/dp/B000B8WEL4/

or as the 85 CD Beethoven Edition from 2007:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VBNRE4/

For a while when both editions were in print, the 85 CD
set was sold at a mere twice the price of the small
separate set.

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-16 21:21:02 UTC

Post by v***@protonmail.com
Thanks for all that, and to the commenters above as well. Gulda is
sounding like a must-have, now.

Gulda is wonderful. This is a review of it from ClassicsToday.
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12309/
I have no idea why it's only available now at Amazon for a ridiculously
high price. I got it myself about five or ten years ago and it's one of
my favorites. Good luck picking it up though.
MIFrost

The Amadeo Gulda sonatas are also available in the Beethoven
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VBNRE4/
Some things said by others is that the German Eloquence CDs
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Piano-Sonata-Concertos-Box/dp/B000BQV52A/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00004SA9B/
So the original Amadeo recordings are best represented by
https://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Sonatas-Piano-Friedrich-Gulda/dp/B000B8WEL4/
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VBNRE4/
For a while when both editions were in print, the 85 CD
set was sold at a mere twice the price of the small
separate set.

Sounding like the Brilliant box is preferable, which is too bad, given its current price.
Added reverb/fake hall sound... yeesh, no thanks.

Frank Lekens

2020-04-19 14:57:19 UTC

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 11:39:57 AM UTC-4,

Thanks for all that, and to the commenters above as well. Gulda is
sounding like a must-have, now.

Gulda is wonderful. This is a review of it from ClassicsToday.
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12309/
I have no idea why it's only available now at Amazon for a
ridiculously high price. I got it myself about five or ten years ago
and it's one of my favorites. Good luck picking it up though.
MIFrost

I wonder if anyone has checked this by actually comparing, either on the
computer or by ear, the sound files on those different reissues. In any
case I would be *very* surprised if the Brilliant Classics sold anything
other than a simple reissue a digital version that already existed,
either on Eloquence or Amadeo, AFAIK the only two pre-existing cd
incarnations of these recordings. It's a super budget label, they
wouldn't go to the trouble of creating their own digital master, they
simply buy a license to reissue the zeros and noughts another company
has put on the market before.

--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-19 15:46:39 UTC

Post by Frank Lekens

On Thursday, April 16, 2020 at 11:39:57 AM UTC-4,

Thanks for all that, and to the commenters above as well. Gulda is
sounding like a must-have, now.

Gulda is wonderful. This is a review of it from ClassicsToday.
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12309/
I have no idea why it's only available now at Amazon for a
ridiculously high price. I got it myself about five or ten years ago
and it's one of my favorites. Good luck picking it up though.
MIFrost

Good point, and I'd love for them to be the same, given the present price of the Brilliant box.

C.

Tatonik

2020-04-19 17:18:14 UTC

Has anyone heard the Beethoven sonata cycle Jonathan Biss is working on?

I heard one on the radio in passing and thought I'd like to hear more.

weary flake

2020-04-19 19:47:09 UTC

Post by Frank Lekens

Thanks for all that, and to the commenters above as well. Gulda is
sounding like a must-have, now.

Gulda is wonderful. This is a review of it from ClassicsToday.
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12309/
I have no idea why it's only available now at Amazon for a ridiculously
high price. I got it myself about five or ten years ago and it's one of
my favorites. Good luck picking it up though.
MIFrost

I wonder if anyone has checked this by actually comparing, either on
the computer or by ear, the sound files on those different reissues. In
any case I would be *very* surprised if the Brilliant Classics sold
anything other than a simple reissue a digital version that already
existed, either on Eloquence or Amadeo, AFAIK the only two pre-existing
cd incarnations of these recordings. It's a super budget label, they
wouldn't go to the trouble of creating their own digital master, they
simply buy a license to reissue the zeros and noughts another company
has put on the market before.

Brilliant did some of their own mastering 15 years ago,
and introduced reissues to the CD format as well as
releasing newly recorded music for the Brilliant label.

What I don't remember hearing about is whether Gulda's
Amadeo label CDs with the added reverb have a different
sound than the original Amadeo LPs, whether the reverb
was post-processed for the LPs. Do the Brilliant
issues sound like the original LPs?

r***@gmail.com

2020-04-17 23:23:46 UTC

Post by v***@protonmail.com
Thanks for all that, and to the commenters above as well. Gulda is sounding like a must-have, now.

Gulda is wonderful. This is a review of it from ClassicsToday.
https://www.classicstoday.com/review/review-12309/
I have no idea why it's only available now at Amazon for a ridiculously high price. I got it myself about five or ten years ago and it's one of my favorites. Good luck picking it up though.
MIFrost

There are three Gulda cycles. The first is a series of radio recitals in mono. It is not a complete cycle but it is the oldest, and the pianist's first. Next is the mono Decca cycle. Last is the stereo Amadeo cycle. I have this in one of the Brilliant Classics complete Beethoven boxes. Look for that box as Beethoven complete, and check the pianist for the sonatas. It may be cheaper than just the sonatas separately.
Gulda's personality did not change over the period, but his interpretation and the sound changed markedly.

MELMOTH13

2020-04-17 07:20:27 UTC

There are many "must-have" recordings of Beethoven's sonatas...
My choice? (out of order):

Arrau 1
Gulda
Brendel 1 (Vox)
Ciccolini
Ciani
Del Pueyo
Kovacevich
Gilels
Richter
Schnabel

Bozo

2020-04-17 14:53:30 UTC

Post by MELMOTH13
There are many "must-have" recordings of Beethoven's sonatas...

Have only Brendel 1 (Vox ) in Op.110 and 111, but agree one of the great readings.Have heard Del Pueyo only in "Hammerklavier" , but his there also a must hear, may be on YT. Richter's live Op.109-111, Leipzig, is not a fav of mine, but sui generis,another must hear.

v***@protonmail.com

2020-04-17 15:26:50 UTC

Any opinions here on the Op.111 Gulda did, apparently late in his career, for Philips?

MELMOTH13

2020-04-18 08:38:03 UTC

Post by MELMOTH13
Arrau 1
Gulda
Brendel 1 (Vox)
Ciccolini
Ciani
Del Pueyo
Kovacevich
Gilels
Richter
Schnabel

And Maria Grinberg, and Solomon !...

Tassilo

2020-04-18 05:24:01 UTC

I love Andrea Lucchesini's EMI recording of the Moonlight and Hammerklavier (and I prefer these studio recordings to the performances of the same sonatas in his live recording of the complete sonatas). -Tassilo

2020-04-18 07:22:03 UTC

Post by v***@protonmail.com
Just got Gould's 6-CD set, and have Gilels's
Tempest/Waldstein/Les Adieux on the way.
Any recommendations for the early sonatas
in particular, as well as others, esp Tempest?

HJ Lim owns the Tempest:

Another favorite Tempest is by Huseyin Sermet:

Enjoy!

dk

2020-04-18 09:31:19 UTC

Post by dk

Post by v***@protonmail.com
Just got Gould's 6-CD set, and have Gilels's
Tempest/Waldstein/Les Adieux on the way.
Any recommendations for the early sonatas
in particular, as well as others, esp Tempest?

http://youtu.be/rB4KS4dCh7E
http://youtu.be/YvbPdqennq8
http://youtu.be/EBvJDErN37M
http://youtu.be/AeGRMbSFxSc

She also owns Waldstein and Les Adieux.

dk

Mr. Mike

2020-04-18 18:03:52 UTC

Post by dk
http://youtu.be/rB4KS4dCh7E
http://youtu.be/YvbPdqennq8
http://youtu.be/EBvJDErN37M

None of the above links work. Try:

(1)

(2)

(3)

JohnA

2020-04-18 18:23:58 UTC

Post by Mr. Mike

Post by dk
http://youtu.be/rB4KS4dCh7E
http://youtu.be/YvbPdqennq8
http://youtu.be/EBvJDErN37M

None of the above links work.

Of course they do.

Post by Mr. Mike
http://youtu.be/40sIsx_Xh3I (1)
http://youtu.be/aTS3fvdpTj0 (2)
http://youtu.be/RzXP8wavEj4 (3)

Now those links don't work

Tatonik

2020-04-18 20:48:08 UTC

Post by JohnA

Post by Mr. Mike

Post by dk
http://youtu.be/rB4KS4dCh7E
http://youtu.be/YvbPdqennq8
http://youtu.be/EBvJDErN37M

None of the above links work.

Of course they do.

Post by Mr. Mike
http://youtu.be/40sIsx_Xh3I (1)
http://youtu.be/aTS3fvdpTj0 (2)
http://youtu.be/RzXP8wavEj4 (3)

Now those links don't work

I started listening and what came to mind were those old commercials
where someone would say, "The doctor says too much coffee makes me
nervous!" and Robert Young would suggest Sanka brand decaffeinated.

2020-04-19 08:18:40 UTC

Post by Mr. Mike

Post by dk
http://youtu.be/rB4KS4dCh7E
http://youtu.be/YvbPdqennq8
http://youtu.be/EBvJDErN37M

http://youtu.be/40sIsx_Xh3I (1)
http://youtu.be/aTS3fvdpTj0 (2)
http://youtu.be/RzXP8wavEj4 (3)

Depends where one is.

The links I posted work for me in California.
If you are in a different country they might
not be reachable because of copyrights and
distribution rights. One can always VPN
oneself to the appropriate jurisdiction.

dk

JohnGavin

2020-04-19 10:51:36 UTC

It’s interesting or maybe odd how some names completely disappear from these discussions, deservedly or not. For example, a name that popped up is Anton Kuerti. He did a complete set which I never heard. Was he a contender?

Some of his early recordings were highly regarded - I remember a Schubert Wanderer Fantasy and Sonata in G Major that was excellent.

c***@gmail.com

2020-04-19 14:45:21 UTC

Post by JohnGavin
It’s interesting or maybe odd how some names completely disappear from these discussions, deservedly or not. For example, a name that popped up is Anton Kuerti. He did a complete set which I never heard. Was he a contender?
Some of his early recordings were highly regarded - I remember a Schubert Wanderer Fantasy and Sonata in G Major that was excellent.

See https://www.nytimes.com/1972/02/27/archives/anton-kuerti-a-pianistic-supernova.html (and beware of the many transcription glitches). The early all-Beethoven LP remains a great favorite of mine, and it was not superseded by the performances in his later cycle, imo. The "Wanderer" that you mention was outstanding also, but I don't think we kept a copy of the LP. We saw Kuerti perform in concert many times when we lived in Canada (1976-86) and he was always excellent. A great chamber music partner as well. I don't think there has been a digital reissue of any of his early Monitor recording, but I'd like to be wrong about that.

AC

Bozo

2020-04-19 15:00:20 UTC

. We saw Kuerti perform in concert many times when we lived in Canada (1976-86) and he was always >excellent.

Not Beethoven or Schubert, but here is a Russian music cd of Kuerti I have which is great, if now overpriced at Amazon: https://tinyurl.com/y9a45q7w

Several of his Beethoven cd's are at Amazon US as well.

Raymond Hall

2020-04-20 01:07:54 UTC

. We saw Kuerti perform in concert many times when we lived in Canada (1976-86) and he was always >excellent.

Not Beethoven or Schubert, but here is a Russian music cd of Kuerti I have which is great, if now overpriced at Amazon: https://tinyurl.com/y9a45q7w
Several of his Beethoven cd's are at Amazon US as well.

One complete set plus the Diabelli is available on the Amazon Aus site. A conversion to US dollars might well be within range for anyone in the US keen to get Kuerti's LvB sonata set.

https://www.amazon.com.au/COMPL-PIANO-SONATAS-L-VAN-BEETHOVEN/dp/B000009CY6/ref=sr_1_21?keywords=anton+kuerti&qid=1587343872&s=music&sr=1-21

Ray Hall, Taree

c***@gmail.com

2020-04-20 02:01:41 UTC

Post by Raymond Hall

. We saw Kuerti perform in concert many times when we lived in Canada (1976-86) and he was always >excellent.

Not Beethoven or Schubert, but here is a Russian music cd of Kuerti I have which is great, if now overpriced at Amazon: https://tinyurl.com/y9a45q7w
Several of his Beethoven cd's are at Amazon US as well.

One complete set plus the Diabelli is available on the Amazon Aus site. A conversion to US dollars might well be within range for anyone in the US keen to get Kuerti's LvB sonata set.
https://www.amazon.com.au/COMPL-PIANO-SONATAS-L-VAN-BEETHOVEN/dp/B000009CY6/ref=sr_1_21?keywords=anton+kuerti&qid=1587343872&s=music&sr=1-21
Ray Hall, Taree

Note that while these recordings are well worth hearing, they are not the ones to which John and I were referring. Much earlier in his career, Kuerti recorded two Beethoven LPs: one issued on Monitor that is relatively well-known:https://www.discogs.com/Ludwig-van-Beethoven-Anton-Kuerti-Beethoven-Piano-Sonatas/release/7861237; and the other issued by Radio Canada and Canada-only RCA, which I do not recall having heard: https://www.discogs.com/Beethoven-Anton-Kuerti-Fantaisie-Op-77-Sonate-Op-14-No1-Andante-Favori-Sonate-Op-26/release/8963823. The Monitor LP contains some of my favorite Beethoven performances. John referred to the contemporaneous Schubert LP, which is also terrific.

AC

Mr. Mike

2020-04-21 02:43:27 UTC

On Sun, 19 Apr 2020 18:07:54 -0700 (PDT), Raymond Hall

Post by Raymond Hall
One complete set plus the Diabelli is available on the Amazon Aus site. A conversion to US dollars might well be within range for anyone in the US keen to get Kuerti's LvB sonata set

If you have access to the Naxos Music Library, maybe through your
local library as it is here in Vancouver, the whole set is available
there for streaming.

number_six

2020-04-21 21:51:00 UTC

These sonatas -- and the spectrum of available recordings -- are great enough a cosmos to reward the purchaser of a complete set as well as the pick and choose collector.

We know from other threads that many here have taken both paths!

Yamahaha

2020-04-20 01:50:03 UTC

Post by JohnGavin

Itâs interesting or maybe odd how some names completely disappear

from these discussions, deservedly or not. For example, a name that
popped up is Anton Kuerti. He did a complete set which I never
heard. Was he a contender?

Some of his early recordings were highly regarded - I remember a
Schubert

Wanderer Fantasy and Sonata in G Major that was excellent.
See
https://www.nytimes.com/1972/02/27/archives/anton-kuerti-a-pianistic-su
pernova.html (and beware of the many transcription glitches). The
early all-Beethoven LP remains a great favorite of mine, and it was
not superseded by the performances in his later cycle, imo. The
"Wanderer" that you mention was outstanding also, but I don't think we
kept a copy of the LP. We saw Kuerti perform in concert many times
when we lived in Canada (1976-86) and he was always excellent. A
great chamber music partner as well. I don't think there has been a
digital reissue of any of his early Monitor recording, but I'd like to
be wrong about that.
AC

I saw him with Yo Yo Ma in 1978 or so. I don't remember most of the recital
save for the finale, Beethoven's Op.69 sonata. That was wonderful.

Frank Lekens

2020-04-19 15:01:06 UTC

I think Kuerti was a Geheimtip for a while when the set was just issued
or became available for a budget price, two reasons that tend to raise a
recording's stock on this newsgroup. I haven't played any of it in a
long while, but as I recall it's distinctive enough to hold its own, and
maybe not quite satisfactory enough to be a top contender (or what
should I call it -- I actually don't really like sports terminology in
this context). Still worth seeking out, though, I should think.

Has anyone else mentioned Fazil Say? He just had a complete set out this
year. From what I've heard it's definitely worth giving a listen.

--
Frank Lekens

http://fmlekens.home.xs4all.nl/
https://franklekens.blogspot.nl/

JohnGavin

2020-04-19 15:36:45 UTC

The early all-Beethoven LP remains a great favorite of mine, and it was not superseded by the performances in his later cycle, imo. The "Wanderer" that you mention was outstanding also, but I don't think we kept a copy of the LP. We saw Kuerti perform in concert many times when we lived in Canada (1976-86) and he was always excellent. A great chamber music partner as well. I don't think there has been a digital reissue of any of his early Monitor recording, but I'd like to be wrong about that.

AC

Two memories of Anton Kuerti - attending a recital at Harvard, I’ll never forget his way with the sustain pedal. He often used “flutter pedal” which is a down and up so rapid that it looks like a hummingbird’s wing. This gives a magical sort of decrescendo to a sustained chord.

The other is his breakneck speed in the finale movement of the Wanderer Fantasy. I quickly realized it was a way to compensate for the fact that it’s a bit weak compared to the preceding movements - I came to feel that he was exactly right to play it as he did.

Owen

2020-04-20 02:52:21 UTC

Post by c***@gmail.com
The early all-Beethoven LP remains a great favorite of mine, and it was not superseded by the performances in his later cycle, imo. The "Wanderer" that you mention was outstanding also, but I don't think we kept a copy of the LP. We saw Kuerti perform in concert many times when we lived in Canada (1976-86) and he was always excellent. A great chamber music partner as well. I don't think there has been a digital reissue of any of his early Monitor recording, but I'd like to be wrong about that.
AC
Two memories of Anton Kuerti - attending a recital at Harvard, I’ll never forget his way with the sustain pedal. He often used “flutter pedal” which is a down and up so rapid that it looks like a hummingbird’s wing. This gives a magical sort of decrescendo to a sustained chord.
The other is his breakneck speed in the finale movement of the Wanderer Fantasy. I quickly realized it was a way to compensate for the fact that it’s a bit weak compared to the preceding movements - I came to feel that he was exactly right to play it as he did.

I have the Kuerti cycle of Beethoven sonatas, which I've listened to,
and they were quite enjoyable. I bought them after hearing him in a
concert in New Bedford. The remarkable thing was at intermission, he
pulled out a tuner's wrench, and re-tuned the piano on the spot, saying
"this will make it much more enjoyable for all of us." All of the
playing was excellent, and in good sound.

-Owen

Rebuild Queens Hall London

2020-04-19 12:02:25 UTC

In case you are thinking of buying Gulda ,ask yourself do you like your Beethoven played very fast with hardly any pedal ?. If not stay away from Gulda. On the other hand if you like early Beethoven played in a sweeping romantic way the Backhaus is for you.

gggg gggg

2021-11-18 07:26:27 UTC

https://groups.google.com/g/rec.music.classical/c/vPOxUOkunvE

Ricardo Jimenez

2021-11-18 19:32:20 UTC

On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 11:23:42 -0800 (PST), Andy Evans

- Backhaus (like his Op 7 in particular)
- Solomon
- Edwin Fischer
I'd add a few later recordings like Gilels.
I like these sonatas played slower and with some degree of charm. I dislike energetic performances with exaggerated dynamics. Yes, I know Beethoven writes a lot of F and FF but I don't expect pianists to take that too literally. A modern grand is much more powerful than Beethoven's pianos just for starters.

Lisitsa has started a complete set. What is out now can be heard on
Spotify and Youtube. I certainly plan to listen even though I would
bet that they are energetic performances with exaggerated dynamics.
:-)

Andy Evans

2021-11-18 20:42:18 UTC

I had a listen and didn't really take to her playing here. Prefer her in other repertoire.

I listened to a few sonatas by Gilels today and liked them a lot.

Then on to Richard Goode, who I also liked a lot.

2021-11-18 22:22:36 UTC

Post by Andy Evans

I had a listen and didn't really take to her playing here. Prefer her in other repertoire.
I listened to a few sonatas by Gilels today and liked them a lot.
Then on to Richard Goode, who I also liked a lot.

I'd be curious to know what you think of Tirimo. I like his Beethoven more than Levit's.

Henk

Peter

2021-11-19 01:26:47 UTC

I like Tirimo a lot, which was a surprise for me because I had never heard of him. When I listen to him I often think, "Yes, that's exactly how it should go." I know there's more than one way to play most music and certainly most Beethoven, but sometimes a performance is so convincing as you're hearing it that it seems like it communes perfectly with the intent of the score. I wouldn't be surprised if Tirimo learned something from performing all those variation sets, just as I felt I learned something by listening to them.

Post by HT
I'd be curious to know what you think of Tirimo. I like his Beethoven more than Levit's.
Henk

2021-11-19 20:05:45 UTC

Post by HT
I'd be curious to know what you think of Tirimo. I like his Beethoven more than Levit's.
Henk

Thanks! I agree with you that Tirimo's Beethoven interpretations sound very natural. The same goes for his version of the Debussy études.

Henk

Andy Evans

2021-11-19 23:57:01 UTC

Here's pretty much where I'm at for these:

2/1 Goode, Solomon
2/2 Blechacz, Levit, Ashkenazy
2/3 Goode, Michelangeli, Kissin
7 Richter, Goode,
10/1 Yudina, Backhaus 1951
10/2 de Larrocha, Backhaus 1951, Gilels
10/3 Solomon, E.Fischer, Backhaus, Kempff 1964, Goode
13 Backhaus 1954, E.Fischer 1938, Solomon, Horowitz 1963,
14/1 Goode, Richter 1963, Backhaus 1954
14/2 Goode, Gilels, Richter 1963, Backhaus 1968
22 Lortie, Gilels 1986, Backhaus 1986, Feinberg, Michelangeli 1981,
26 Richter 1976, Gilels, Michelangeli 1981, 1982,
27/1 Arrau live, Backhaus 1953, Solomon
27/2 Solomon, Rubinstein, Backhaus 1964, Horowitz 1956

Dan Koren

2021-11-21 07:31:01 UTC

Post by Andy Evans
2/1 Goode, Solomon
2/2 Blechacz, Levit, Ashkenazy
2/3 Goode, Michelangeli, Kissin
7 Richter, Goode,
10/1 Yudina, Backhaus 1951
10/2 de Larrocha, Backhaus 1951, Gilels
10/3 Solomon, E.Fischer, Backhaus, Kempff 1964, Goode
13 Backhaus 1954, E.Fischer 1938, Solomon, Horowitz 1963,
14/1 Goode, Richter 1963, Backhaus 1954
14/2 Goode, Gilels, Richter 1963, Backhaus 1968
22 Lortie, Gilels 1986, Backhaus 1986, Feinberg, Michelangeli 1981,
26 Richter 1976, Gilels, Michelangeli 1981, 1982,
27/1 Arrau live, Backhaus 1953, Solomon
27/2 Solomon, Rubinstein, Backhaus 1964, Horowitz 1956

HJ Lim's complete cycle (minus op 49) may be found at
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kbOMB69vdwZCXpi25aaDyVdsaCrER9uY0

If YT blocks these in one's county, one can always VPN
onesefl to the US or anywhere else they are available.

The "name" sonatas in particular are standouts:

Appassionata:

Pathetique:

Tempest:
http://youtu.be/rB4KS4dCh7E
http://youtu.be/YvbPdqennq8
http://youtu.be/EBvJDErN37M

Waldstein:

Hammerklavier:

Les Adieux:

Hunt:

Enjoy!

dk

Johannes Roehl

2021-11-19 18:23:50 UTC

But a historical piano sounds like at breaking point at fortissimo ;)
I think Edwin Fischer is great in opp. 10/3, 13 and 28 but I don't find them all that "charming". They are rather "romanticized" and very expressive. So is Schnabel.
I don't consider op.31 early; if one wants to draw a line between early and middle I'd probably put it after op.22 or op.27.
Gulda has been mentioned for the earlyish sonatas and I liked his a lot but he is usually very fast. So is the disc with Kocsis (op.2/1, 10/1, 13, 31/2) I also like very much. All of Gelber's are also favorites of mine but they are energetic and exaggerated (and many early ones are not included).
Some favs of mine up to op.27

2/1 Gulda, Kocsis
2/2 Gulda, Gilels
2/3 Gelber, Gilels
7 Gilels is a bit slow, Gulda a bit too straight and fast; it's not a favorite of mine
10/1 Kocsis, Gulda, Gelber
10/2 Gelber
10/3 Fischer, Gelber, Gilels, Richter
13 Fischer, R. Serkin
14/1 ?
14/2 Gilels, Richter
22 Pollini live DG (with op. 26 and 53)
26 Gilels
27/1 Schnabel, Gelber
27/2 Gelber

MELMOTH

2021-11-20 00:59:45 UTC

My complete sonatas are by far my favorites :

*Eduardo DEL PUEYO*
*Dino CIANI* (unfortunately very badly recorded...By a spectator, with
a UHER tape recorder on his knees! )
*Friederich GULDA*
*Alfred BRENDEL I
*Aldo CICCOLINI*
*Arthur SCHNABEL*
*Edwin FISCHER*
*Claudio ARRAU II*

Dan Koren

2021-11-21 02:31:01 UTC