Iraq was a "World Class Strategic Blunder" - Gen Wesley Clarke, former NATO Commander

Post by fasgnadh
Iraq was a "serious strategic blunder, ...a world class
strategic blunder, ...our alliances strained...

Really? It was such a secret until you let the cat out of the bag.

Benway

2008-07-02 12:50:43 UTC

Post by fasgnadh
Iraq was a "serious strategic blunder, ...a world class
strategic blunder, ...our alliances strained...
our armed forces demoralized..."
SBS Lateline, 2/7/2008
"We have to repudiate torture and end what's going on in GITMO"
- Gen Wesley Clarke, Former NATO Commander
# Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:06:32 +1100
# Newsgroups: aus.services.defence,aus.politics,aus.culture.true-blue
# Subject: Iraq the greatest strategic disaster in U.S. History
# - Lieutenant Gen W.E. Odom
#
#
# ?The invasion of Iraq will turn out to be the
# greatest strategic disaster in U.S. history,?
#
# "Many U.S. officers in Iraq, especially at
# company and field grade levels, know that
# while they are winning every tactical battle,
# they are losing strategically."
#
# "A US withdrawal would see Al Qaida expelled.
# It cannot operate in Kurdish and Shiite areas,
# and is equally despised by the Sunnis, but accepted
# by them as an ally against the US."
#
# "Lieutenant General William E. Odom, U.S. Army (ret.),
# is a senior fellow with the Hudson Institute and a
# professor at Yale University. He was Reagans director
# of the National Security Agency from 1985 to 1988.
# From 1981 to 1985, he served as assistant chief of staff for
# intelligence, the Army's senior intelligence officer. From 1977 to
# 1981, he was military assistant to the
# president's assistant for national security affairs,
# Zbigniew Brzezinsk"
#
# "the U.S. will not leave behind a liberal,
# constitutional democracy in Iraq no matter
# how long it stays. Holding elections is easy.
# It is impossible to make it a constitutional
# democracy in a hurry.
#
# President Bush's statements about progress in
# Iraq are increasingly resembling LBJ's statements
# during the Vietnam War. For instance, Johnson's
# comments about the 1968 election are very similar
# to what Bush said in February 2005 after the
# election of a provisional parliament.
#
# Ask the president: Why should we expect a different
# outcome in Iraq than in Vietnam?"
#
# http://www.antiwar.com/orig/odom.php?articleid=7487
------------
"Why of course the people don't want war...
But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy,
and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along,
whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship...
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked,
and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger."
- Hermann Goering (Gestapo/Nazi leader), Nuremberg, 1946
------------
The true-blue Homestead;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
-----------

*************************************
We were meant to trust our plucky little
ANZAC suckhole, non-core John. Surely he
would not have misled his fellow Australians.
Are you telling me there were no WMD?
Has this whole thing been a tissue of lies?
Is non-core John a war criminal as well as a cheat?
*********************************************

acmeinc

2008-07-02 13:17:19 UTC

Post by fasgnadh
Iraq was a "serious strategic blunder, ...a world class
strategic blunder, ...our alliances strained...
our armed forces demoralized..."
SBS Lateline, 2/7/2008

As usual ole Wesley is not looking at the Iraqi invasion for what it was:
a second front in the Jews' dirty little war for land. As a strategic move
on the part of the Jews it was brilliant. Same thing is now happening with
Iran, here's is just another example,
" ... ABC News quoted an unnamed senior Pentagon official warning of an
"increasing likelihood" that Israel will strike Iran's nuclear facilities
before the end of the year. Such an attack could prompt Iran to retaliate,
potentially disrupting oil shipments from the strategically vital Persian
Gulf. ...". Small propaganda machine that had the weapons and chemicals in
Hussein's hands are at it again. The Jews have had invasion plans for Iran
for decades: " ... 10. The United States was anxious to have other
countries supply
assistance to Iraq. For example, in 1984, the Israelis concluded that
Iran was more dangerous than Iraq to Israel's existence due to the growing
Iranian influence and presence in Lebanon. The Israelis approached the
United States in a meeting in Jerusalem that I attended with Donald
Rumsfeld. Israeli Foreign Minister Yitzhak Shamir asked Rumsfeld if the
United States would deliver a secret offer of Israeli assistance to Iraq.
The United States agreed. I travelled wtih Rumsfeld to Baghdad and was
present at the meeting in which Rumsfeld told Iraqi Foreign Minister Tariq
Aziz about Israel's offer of assistance. Aziz refused even to accept the
Israelis' letter to Hussein offering assistance, because Aziz told us that
he would be executed on the spot by Hussein if he did so. ..." from
"teicherThe Zionist Organization of America is a tax-exempt organization
under
section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code ("IRC") and all contributions
to it are deductible as charitable contributions as provided in IRC section
170. from zoa.org.
See hr 4230 for example of how a foriegn power controls American government.

" "stand for israel" encourages Christian churches, leadership and
individuals to support Israel and the Jewish people through prayer and
advocacy."(along with a lot of gentile money) from ifcj.org about helping
Jews remove Arabs in Palestine.
Look up "mordechai levy" and his "jdo" to learn more about what some Jews
are doing in this country. See ihr.org/levy.shtml

See csmonitor.com/2004/0707 for more on christian zionism.
See amconmag.com/2004_05_24/article.html for facts about hagee.

" ... Ever since Benjamin Netanyahu -- Israel's prime minister from 1996 to
1999 -- cultivated ties with U.S. Evangelicals and other Christians during
his tenure, Israeli governments have sought to strengthen relations with the
sector of the Christian world which, for religious reasons, tends to take a
pro-Israeli view of the Arab-Jewish conflict. On Mr. Robertson's website, he
says that God gave this land "to the descendants of Israel," not to
"so-called Palestinians." Older churches, such as Orthodox and Catholic
denominations, have more local Palestinian followers and tend to support
that side of the conflict. ...". A Theme Park for Holyland? Ilene R.
Prusher, csmonitor.com

" ... True, Judaism does not assign the same status to the unborn child as
to life after birth. Thus abortion is always permissible, indeed mandatory,
when the mother's life is threatened. ..." National Review, 7/8/1991. Don
Feder. Also see J J Goldberg's "Jewish Power", pp. 41-42.

Americans are dying for no reason except that Bush is the Jews' puppet.
Never forget the USS Liberty, Andre Serot, Lord Moyne and Bernadotte.

Jews want money for Nazi takings, how about Jews paying for deaths of
American Naval personnel? How about that!
+article1413.htm"
The Jews use paranoia and war to control not only themselves but the useful
idiots such as:

Mr.SmartyPants

2008-07-02 14:30:35 UTC

Post by fasgnadh
Iraq was a "serious strategic blunder, ...a world class
strategic blunder, ...our alliances strained...
our armed forces demoralized..."
SBS Lateline, 2/7/2008

for the Neo-Cons , if they get control over the OIL , it is well worth
it.
and the tax-payers get the bill.

--
If guns are out-lawed. Only the Out-laws & politicians will have guns.

fasgnadh

2008-07-03 02:03:50 UTC

Post by Mr.SmartyPants

Post by fasgnadh
Iraq was a "serious strategic blunder, ...a world class
strategic blunder, ...our alliances strained...
our armed forces demoralized..."
SBS Lateline, 2/7/2008

for the Neo-Cons , if they get control over the OIL , it is well worth
it.
and the tax-payers get the bill.

The last time Western Imperialists controlled Iraqi oil it
led directly to Saddam Hussein and nationalization. 8^0

In Iran a CIA coup installed the Shah, and armed him to the teeth,
but that led directly to the Ayatollahs..

The history of failure to control the lives of entire nations
goes back a long way...

This time it could be worse;

Revelation 18

1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven,
having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great
is fallen, is fallen

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and
lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her,
when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

Loading Image...

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas,
alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour
is thy judgment come.

http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&/images3/2004_war_photos/r3165273230.jpe

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her;
for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jAuBrzOe1HPqakyvaVqR1R3D6FBgD91L5JV84

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of
pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all
thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels
of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine,
and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and
horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and
all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and
thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall
stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

Loading Image...

I hear the Merchants are already wailing and weeping,
and the oil has only just started to depart from them.

------------

"Why of course the people don't want war...
But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy,
and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along,
whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship...
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked,
and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger."

- Hermann Goering (Gestapo/Nazi leader), Nuremberg, 1946

------------

The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/

-----------

Wayne H. Wilhelm

2008-07-03 06:40:01 UTC

Post by Mr.SmartyPants

Post by fasgnadh
Iraq was a "serious strategic blunder, ...a world class
strategic blunder, ...our alliances strained...
our armed forces demoralized..."
SBS Lateline, 2/7/2008

for the Neo-Cons , if they get control over the OIL , it is well worth
it.
and the tax-payers get the bill.

The last time Western Imperialists controlled Iraqi oil it
led directly to Saddam Hussein and nationalization. 8^0

Speaking of 'oil', tell me:

What will happen to countries such as Iran, Iraq, Russia, Saudi Arabia, and
Venezuela when 'oil' becomes obsolete and all the $Billions in oil sales
they currently enjoy disappears, and the CO2 Carbon Credits they want to
collect from the United States cease as well?

---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups

abelard

2008-07-03 12:14:43 UTC

Post by Mr.SmartyPants

Post by fasgnadh
Iraq was a "serious strategic blunder, ...a world class
strategic blunder, ...our alliances strained...
our armed forces demoralized..."
SBS Lateline, 2/7/2008

for the Neo-Cons , if they get control over the OIL , it is well worth
it.
and the tax-payers get the bill.

don't be ridiculous..
you are both exceedingly narrow and are living in the past....
you have no sound context or logic....

in the past people did what was best then....

since then every (backward) oil nation has acted outside
the rule of law....and broken every 'agreement' they ever made...

in a more advanced and more modern world the objectives and
imperatives are very different...
eg civilising the middle east....

fortunately the grim foolishness of socialism is dying....
now comes modernising islam and replacing oil....

every backward country has suffered from oil....through the corruption
of dictators....
western civilisation has been built on oil....

in 1975 venezuelan juan pablo perez alfonzo referred to oil as the
devil's excrement.
in the west it has been often called as black gold....

--
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics
energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
all that is necessary for [] walk quietly and carry
the triumph of evil is that [] a big stick.
good people do nothing [] trust actions not words
only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

abelard

2008-07-02 16:24:49 UTC

Post by fasgnadh
Iraq was a "serious strategic blunder, ...a world class
strategic blunder, ...our alliances strained...
our armed forces demoralized..."
SBS Lateline, 2/7/2008

he's a trimmer...

http://www.factcheck.org/was_wesley_clark_a_republican.html
may 11 2001
"Clark: If you look around the world, there's a lot of work to be
done. And I'm very glad we've got the great team in office, men like
Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, Paul
O'Neill - people I know very well - our president George W. Bush. We
need them there, because we've got some tough challenges ahead in
Europe."

jan 22 2002
"Clark: I tremendously admire, and I think we all should, the great
work done by our commander-in-chief, our president, George Bush, and
the men and women of the United States armed forces."

irak action
Clark said, "At the time, I probably would have voted for it, but I
think that's too simple a question,"

http://wais.stanford.edu/Individuals/individual_generalclark.htm
"Shelton, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was
Clarks boss in 1999 when Clark was unceremoniously told that he was
being removed from his position as Supreme Allied Commander, Europe.
"Ive known Wes for a long time," Shelton said. "I will tell you the
reason he came out of Europe early had to do with integrity and
character issues, things that are very near and dear to my heart. . .
."

http://powdertracks.blogtownhall.com/2008/07/01/an_awful_truth_about_wesley_clark__ww_iii!.thtml
"I'm not going to start the third world war for you," General Sir Mike
Jackson, commander of the international K-For peacekeeping force, is
reported to have told Gen Clark when he refused to accept an order to
send assault troops to prevent Russian troops from taking over the
airfield of Kosovo's provincial capital.

http://www.antiwar.com/malic/m091803.html
"For NATO's - and Clark's - "humanitarian intervention" in Kosovo has
only ever been a crudely manufactured lie based on most despicable
deception."
###

http://www.mediamonitors.net/mosaddeq33.html
" The Supreme Commander of NATO, General Wesley Clark, who led the
entire campaign, went even further, admitting that: We knew there
were going to be some horrendous atrocities We knew it might lead to
the expulsion of Kosovars from certain regions of Kosovo.[48]

He also stressed quite unambiguously during the first few days of the
bombing that it was entirely predictable that Serb paramilitary
atrocities would increase as a result of NATOs intervention, and that
as a consequence the ethnic cleansing of Kosovan Abanians would
escalate. The Sunday Times, for instance, reported that: Natos
supreme commander, Wesley Clark was not surprised at the retaliatory
upsurge [by the Serbs]. This was entirely predictable at this stage,
he said concerning the bombings horrific impact on civilians in
Kosovo. Not long later Clark further affirmed: The military
authorities fully anticipated the vicious approach that Milosevic
would adopt, as well as the terrible efficiency with which he would
carry it out.[49] A month after the bombing, the NATO Commander
further revealed that the NATO air war against Serbia planned by the
political leadership, was not designed as a means of blocking Serb
ethnic cleansing. It was not designed as a means of waging war against
the Serb and MUP forces in Kosovo. Not in any way. There was never any
intent to do that. That was not the idea.[50]

In other words, according to the then Supreme Commander of NATO who
steered the bombing campaign in Kosovo, it was fully anticipated that
the NATO intervention would escalate acts of genocide, atrocities and
the humanitarian catastrophe as such. Indeed, General Wesley Clark
admitted that this was because the military intervention had nothing
to do with averting Serb ethnic cleansing, or even waging war with
Serb forces in Kosovo. Yet on 24th March 1999, President Clinton,
speaking from the White House, told reporters: Our purpose here is to
prevent a humanitarian catastrophe. Our objective is to make it clear
to Mr. Milosevic he must choose peace or limit his plans to make
war.[51] The Western powers under U.S. leadership therefore wished to
convince the world that they had intervened militarily to avert
Kosovos humanitarian catastrophe, in spite of having predicted that,
Airstrikes alone... could not stop Serb forces from executing
Kosovars (Shelton), and having anticipated that bombing would
escalate the humanitarian catastrophe.

ie, clark is for intervention when it suits him....

he wanted to run as demogocrat when he saw a career opportunity
he says what ever he thinks is popular at the time

very good job he's spent his life taking orders instead of giving them

fasgnadh

2008-07-04 12:56:38 UTC

Why is it that when yet another Senior (retired) Officer in
the US military criticises a clearly failed policy, and the use
of torture by the US, the Republican Filth machine, which previously
found him good enough to serve his country as NATO commander,
smears the MAN, and leaves the ball untouched?

Post by abelard
he's a trimmer...

You're a slandering shitpig propagandist.

Post by abelard
http://www.factcheck.org/was_wesley_clark_a_republican.html
may 11 2001
"Clark: If you look around the world, there's a lot of work to be
done. And I'm very glad we've got the great team in office, men like
Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, Paul
O'Neill - people I know very well - our president George W. Bush. We
need them there, because we've got some tough challenges ahead in
Europe."
jan 22 2002
"Clark: I tremendously admire, and I think we all should, the great
work done by our commander-in-chief, our president, George Bush, and
the men and women of the United States armed forces."

No serving officer can criticise the government or it's policies,
a soldier serves, and is free to speak when he leaves the services;

September 25, 2003:
"We elected a president we thought was a compassionate conservative.
Instead we got neither conservatism or compassion. We got a man who
recklessly cut taxes. We got a man who recklessly took us into war with
Iraq.

I was never partisan in the military. I served under Democratic
presidents, I served under Republican presidents. But as I looked at
this country and looked which way we were headed, I knew that I needed
to speak out. And when I needed to speak out, there was only party to
come to."

<snip any alleged quote without citation, abelard is a notorious liar>

Then the Republican Filth machine leaves out the most significant
part of a quote in which Clarke is smeared without ANY supporting

Post by abelard
http://wais.stanford.edu/Individuals/individual_generalclark.htm
"Shelton, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was
Clark’s boss in 1999 when Clark was unceremoniously told that he was
being removed from his position as Supreme Allied Commander, Europe.
"I’ve known Wes for a long time," Shelton said. "I will tell you the
reason he came out of Europe early had to do with integrity and
character issues, things that are very near and dear to my heart. . .
."

near and dear to my heart. . . . Wes won’t get my vote.” Shelton has
refused to explain how he came to his conclusion."

What, not a single SPECIFIC example? Not a single shred of evidence?

Why does the Republican FILTH MACHINE SMEAR THE MEN WHO STOOD UP
TO DEFEND THE NATION!?

They did it with Kerry, and now, rather than debate the SUBSTANCE
of his CRITICISMS, they smear and slander Clarke, a man they had at the
Highest level of US military command!

Snip reams of irrelevant padding about Clarke's long record serving both
Democratic and Republican Administrations, carrying out his orders in
Europe... cut to the chase...

Post by abelard
ie, clark is for intervention when it suits him....

You fucking lunatic Republican TRAITOR, he carried out ORDERS,
Soldiers don't do 'intervention when it suits them' they intervene
when TOLD TO. And unlike Republican shitpigs and their arse licking
tools in Usenet, cutting and pasting from the websites of the
Republican Filth Machine, they are men of Honour, who serve
and ONLY WHEN THEY ARE FREE FROM SERVICE.. do they criticise the
manifest stupidity they were witness to.. close UP and first hand!!

Post by abelard
very good job he's spent his life taking orders

And you fucking shitpigs attack him for taking orders while in uniform!?

Un-fucking believable!

And this from the supporters of Bush, who hid from the Vietnam
war down a beer bottle!

Soldiers serving you DISLOYAL, DISHONOURABLE, SLIMY PRICKS, would
do well to consider the reason why the founding fathers allowed
guns in the hands of the people.. and declared;

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive
of these Ends, it is in the Right of the People to alter
or abolish it, and to institute a new Government, laying
its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its
Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely
to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence indeed,
will dictate that Governments long established should
not be changed for light and transient Causes; and
accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind
are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable,
than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which
they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and
Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces
a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is
their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government,
and to provide new Guards for their future Security."

Hey, you greasy cocksucking cowards, here's another outstanding
man of honour who served his country loyally and has the SAME
view as Clarke.. you seem to have forgotten to SMEAR YOUR SHIT
ON HIS UNIFORM!!!!

Post by fasgnadh
# Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:06:32 +1100
# Newsgroups: aus.services.defence,aus.politics,aus.culture.true-blue
# Subject: Iraq the greatest strategic disaster in U.S. History
# - Lieutenant Gen W.E. Odom
#
#
# “The invasion of Iraq will turn out to be the
# greatest strategic disaster in U.S. history,”
#
# "Many U.S. officers in Iraq, especially at
# company and field grade levels, know that
# while they are winning every tactical battle,
# they are losing strategically."
#
# "A US withdrawal would see Al Qaida expelled.
# It cannot operate in Kurdish and Shiite areas,
# and is equally despised by the Sunnis, but accepted
# by them as an ally against the US."
#
# "Lieutenant General William E. Odom, U.S. Army (ret.),
# is a senior fellow with the Hudson Institute and a
# professor at Yale University. He was Reagans director
# of the National Security Agency from 1985 to 1988.
# From 1981 to 1985, he served as assistant chief of staff for
# intelligence, the Army's senior intelligence officer. From 1977 to
# 1981, he was military assistant to the
# president's assistant for national security affairs,
# Zbigniew Brzezinsk"
#
# "the U.S. will not leave behind a liberal,
# constitutional democracy in Iraq no matter
# how long it stays. Holding elections is easy.
# It is impossible to make it a constitutional
# democracy in a hurry.
#
# President Bush's statements about progress in
# Iraq are increasingly resembling LBJ's statements
# during the Vietnam War. For instance, Johnson's
# comments about the 1968 election are very similar
# to what Bush said in February 2005 after the
# election of a provisional parliament.
#
# Ask the president: Why should we expect a different
# outcome in Iraq than in Vietnam?"
#
# http://www.antiwar.com/orig/odom.php?articleid=7487

** Insert Republican Party Filth Machine Propaganda here! **

Post by fasgnadh
------------
"Why of course the people don't want war...
But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy,
and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along,
whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship...
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked,
and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger."
- Hermann Goering (Gestapo/Nazi leader), Nuremberg, 1946
------------
The true-blue Homestead;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
-----------

---------

"The document's radical, but we mustn't be afraid of that,
the proposals are just.

History shows us that there have been many struggles
between the honest men of England and those that tyrannized them.
All good laws come as innovation and as constraints upon
the power of the King and Lords."

-Colonel Thomas Rainsborough
Council of the Army, Putney Church, 1647

---------

The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/

-----------

abelard

2008-07-04 13:39:12 UTC

doubtless he's fine at playing politics in a government( army)
bureaucracy and following orders...

just like you're fine as long as you don't have to think much....

horses for courses....
a dish washer and a road sweeper can be fine upstanding
fellows...you just don't want then driving aeroplanes....

there is nothing smearing in recognising his limitations and problems.

it is foolish and unkind to put people like you in situations they
can't manage....

let the able be given challenges to develop them...
let the poor in mind have nothing to dismay them....
~ benedict...

it is the place of real leadership to assign appropriately the
trimmers like clark....
it is also the place of real leadership to remove them when
it goes to their head...

rest binned unread....

FACE

2008-07-04 13:54:24 UTC

doubtless he's fine at playing politics in a government( army)
bureaucracy and following orders...
just like you're fine as long as you don't have to think much....
horses for courses....
a dish washer and a road sweeper can be fine upstanding
fellows...you just don't want then driving aeroplanes....
there is nothing smearing in recognising his limitations and problems.
it is foolish and unkind to put people like you in situations they
can't manage....
let the able be given challenges to develop them...
let the poor in mind have nothing to dismay them....
~ benedict...
it is the place of real leadership to assign appropriately the
trimmers like clark....
it is also the place of real leadership to remove them when
it goes to their head...
rest binned unread....

The holy Obama spent a lot of time distancing himself from the crass remarks
of the failed Weasely Clark.

FACE

abelard

2008-07-04 13:57:57 UTC

doubtless he's fine at playing politics in a government( army)
bureaucracy and following orders...
just like you're fine as long as you don't have to think much....
horses for courses....
a dish washer and a road sweeper can be fine upstanding
fellows...you just don't want then driving aeroplanes....
there is nothing smearing in recognising his limitations and problems.
it is foolish and unkind to put people like you in situations they
can't manage....
let the able be given challenges to develop them...
let the poor in mind have nothing to dismay them....
~ benedict...
it is the place of real leadership to assign appropriately the
trimmers like clark....
it is also the place of real leadership to remove them when
it goes to their head...
rest binned unread....

The holy Obama spent a lot of time distancing himself from the crass remarks
of the failed Weasely Clark.

i have little doubt that obarmy asked him to make the idiotic
cracks in order to pretend to 'distance' himself...

regards

FACE

2008-07-04 14:03:26 UTC

doubtless he's fine at playing politics in a government( army)
bureaucracy and following orders...
just like you're fine as long as you don't have to think much....
horses for courses....
a dish washer and a road sweeper can be fine upstanding
fellows...you just don't want then driving aeroplanes....
there is nothing smearing in recognising his limitations and problems.
it is foolish and unkind to put people like you in situations they
can't manage....
let the able be given challenges to develop them...
let the poor in mind have nothing to dismay them....
~ benedict...
it is the place of real leadership to assign appropriately the
trimmers like clark....
it is also the place of real leadership to remove them when
it goes to their head...
rest binned unread....

The holy Obama spent a lot of time distancing himself from the crass remarks
of the failed Weasely Clark.

i have little doubt that obarmy asked him to make the idiotic
cracks in order to pretend to 'distance' himself...
regards

That is always a possibility. A similar thought crossed my mind last
weekend when some 60 cars were defaced with anti-Obama and anit-Democrat
graffiti in the State of FL. For whatever else it was, it was good press
for Obama and the demoncrat party..........

FACE

fasgnadh

2008-07-05 02:28:55 UTC

Post by abelard
doubtless he's fine
rest binned unread....

Typical of the Slandering Republican Filth Machine.

---------

"The document's radical, but we mustn't be afraid of that,
the proposals are just.

History shows us that there have been many struggles
between the honest men of England and those that tyrannized them.
All good laws come as innovation and as constraints upon
the power of the King and Lords."

-Colonal Thomas Rainsborough
Council of the Army, Putney Church, 1647

---------

The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/

-----------

Wayne H. Wilhelm

2008-07-05 03:58:10 UTC

The correct question is, "Why is it that out of the 100's of thousands of
soldiers who are honorably discharged each year that Democrats are only able
to find a small handful who condemn Bush's efforts in Iraq?"

---- Posted via Pronews.com - Premium Corporate Usenet News Provider ----
http://www.pronews.com offers corporate packages that have access to 100,000+ newsgroups

fasgnadh

2008-07-05 02:27:05 UTC

Post by abelard
doubtless he's fine
rest binned unread....

--
---------

"The document's radical, but we mustn't be afraid of that,
the proposals are just.

History shows us that there have been many struggles
between the honest men of England and those that tyrannized them.
All good laws come as innovation and as constraints upon
the power of the King and Lords."

-Colonal Thomas Rainsborough
Council of the Army, Putney Church, 1647

---------

The true-blue Homestead;

http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/

-----------

fasgnadh

2008-07-05 02:26:02 UTC

doubtless he's fine
rest binned unread....

kangarooistan

2008-07-02 22:06:58 UTC

Post by fasgnadh
Iraq was a "serious strategic blunder, ...a world class
strategic blunder, ...our alliances strained...
our armed forces demoralized..."
SBS Lateline, 2/7/2008
"We have to repudiate torture and end what's going on in GITMO"
- Gen Wesley Clarke, Former NATO Commander
# Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:06:32 +1100
# Newsgroups: aus.services.defence,aus.politics,aus.culture.true-blue
# Subject: Iraq the greatest strategic disaster in U.S. History
# - Lieutenant Gen W.E. Odom
#
#
# “The invasion of Iraq will turn out to be the
# greatest strategic disaster in U.S. history,”
#
# "Many U.S. officers in Iraq, especially at
# company and field grade levels, know that
# while they are winning every tactical battle,
# they are losing strategically."
#
# "A US withdrawal would see Al Qaida expelled.
# It cannot operate in Kurdish and Shiite areas,
# and is equally despised by the Sunnis, but accepted
# by them as an ally against the US."
#
# "Lieutenant General William E. Odom, U.S. Army (ret.),
# is a senior fellow with the Hudson Institute and a
# professor at Yale University. He was Reagans director
# of the National Security Agency from 1985 to 1988.
# From 1981 to 1985, he served as assistant chief of staff for
# intelligence, the Army's senior intelligence officer. From 1977 to
# 1981, he was military assistant to the
# president's assistant for national security affairs,
# Zbigniew Brzezinsk"
#
# "the U.S. will not leave behind a liberal,
# constitutional democracy in Iraq no matter
# how long it stays. Holding elections is easy.
# It is impossible to make it a constitutional
# democracy in a hurry.
#
# President Bush's statements about progress in
# Iraq are increasingly resembling LBJ's statements
# during the Vietnam War. For instance, Johnson's
# comments about the 1968 election are very similar
# to what Bush said in February 2005 after the
# election of a provisional parliament.
#
# Ask the president: Why should we expect a different
# outcome in Iraq than in Vietnam?"
#
#http://www.antiwar.com/orig/odom.php?articleid=7487
------------
"Why of course the people don't want war...
But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy,
and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along,
whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship...
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked,
and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger."
- Hermann Goering (Gestapo/Nazi leader), Nuremberg, 1946
------------
The true-blue Homestead;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
-----------

Cant wait till they invade Iran , it will make Iraq look like a sunday
school picnic

kangarooistan
==============

Another "mother of all battles"?

I think it will be another war like today's Iraq War, with Israel
involved.

Iran will be nothing like Iraq at all

Iran is 3 times as big , 3 times as many people , 3 times as unitided
by way of religion , 30 years preparing , 2000 km coat line facing
the gulf oil shipping , with shoulder launch missiles that can take
out a tanker covering every inch of the shipping lane that supplies
half the worlds oil ,

Iran will be harder than Iraq Afghanistan Lebanon and Palestine
combined , simply do the maths , area population and weapons , far
harder than all other wars combined

western taxpayers are already bankrupt mate , they are already
bleeding from every orifice

www.costofwar.com

Nothing can now save the USA or Israel from bleeding to death ,
attacking Iran will only hasten their demise

kangarooistan
=============

YEP mate , many Iranians would die , but Nukes are now old fashioned ,
it was proven 50 years ago they were useless in wars , thats why they
have never been used since they discovered 99% of the radiation goes
straight up into the air and lands thousands of KM away in cities to
kill millions of the next few decades ,

They discovered that in South Australia over 50 years ago mate

Please try and keep up with real weapons mate

Nukes are old fashioned toys for the propaganda dept to scare the
sheeple when needed , they simply dont work , no matter how big they
are , it all goes straight up into the air and a few sq km at ground
zero is probable cleaner than cities 10,000 km away where the real
killing happens over decades
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_nuclear_tests_at_Maralinga

Why not have a nice quiet talk to those who know mate , they will
explain it all to you if you ask those who where there doing the tests
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maralinga_Tjarutja

Nuke weapons will kill more western people than enemy in battle

why did you not ask the experts who made them mate , they tried to
warn you , but you look like you swallowed the western WMD propaganda
back in the 1960s hook line and sinker , Sir Mark Oliphant not only
helped build them , he helped research the nuke tests of the 1950s

Nukes are useless in wars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Oliphant

Marcus Turned into a nice bloke , once he discovered who the real
terrorists really were

Educate yourself mate , it may save your childrens lives , Nukes wont
save them , knowledge of the facts might

YEP mate

One bomb one bullet or one western soldiers boot in Iran , is all it
will take to bleed western taxpayers to death for Israel

It matters not who fires it

WW3 will bankrupt every western country completely

Thank GOD it wont take long

www.costofwar.com

kangarooistan
==============

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JG02Ak03.html.

The Iranians can - and would - close the Strait of Hormuz, the narrow
waterway separating the Arabian Gulf from the Gulf of Oman and the
North Arabian Sea. This would cause already rocketing oil prices to go
through the roof, as pointed out by Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps
commander Mohammad Ali Jaafari.

The strait is the world's second-busiest international water route,
channeling 25% of the world's oil supplies on a daily basis. Over 75%
of Japan's oil, for example, runs through Hormuz. According to
Mustapha al-Sayyed, a Syrian oil expert, "if the strait is closed,
alternate routes [if available] would have to be used, and this will
result in a loss of more than 20 million barrels per day in the
international market." He added that he expected oil prices to reach
"no less than US$500 a barrel". Currently, the oil flow through the
strait stands at more than 17 million barrels per day. The chaos in
world markets this would cause does not need explaining.

Iran has also reportedly positioned some of its Shahab-3B missiles,
with a range of nearly 2,000 kilometers, and according to certain
press reports, is ready to fire at the Dimona reactor inside Israel.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JG02Ak03.html.

One bomb one bullet or one western soldiers boot in Iran , is all it
will take to bleed western taxpayers to death for Israel

It matters not who fires it

WW3 will bankrupt every western country completely

Thank GOD it wont take long

www.costofwar.com

kangarooistan
==============

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JG02Ak03.html.

The Iranians can - and would - close the Strait of Hormuz, the narrow
waterway separating the Arabian Gulf from the Gulf of Oman and the
North Arabian Sea. This would cause already rocketing oil prices to go
through the roof, as pointed out by Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps
commander Mohammad Ali Jaafari.

The strait is the world's second-busiest international water route,
channeling 25% of the world's oil supplies on a daily basis. Over 75%
of Japan's oil, for example, runs through Hormuz. According to
Mustapha al-Sayyed, a Syrian oil expert, "if the strait is closed,
alternate routes [if available] would have to be used, and this will
result in a loss of more than 20 million barrels per day in the
international market." He added that he expected oil prices to reach
"no less than US$500 a barrel". Currently, the oil flow through the
strait stands at more than 17 million barrels per day. The chaos in
world markets this would cause does not need explaining.

Iran has also reportedly positioned some of its Shahab-3B missiles,
with a range of nearly 2,000 kilometers, and according to certain
press reports, is ready to fire at the Dimona reactor inside Israel.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/JG02Ak03.html.

fasgnadh

2008-07-05 03:07:20 UTC

Post by kangarooistan

Post by fasgnadh
Iraq was a "serious strategic blunder, ...a world class
strategic blunder, ...our alliances strained...
our armed forces demoralized..."
SBS Lateline, 2/7/2008
"We have to repudiate torture and end what's going on in GITMO"
- Gen Wesley Clarke, Former NATO Commander
# Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 16:06:32 +1100
# Newsgroups: aus.services.defence,aus.politics,aus.culture.true-blue
# Subject: Iraq the greatest strategic disaster in U.S. History
# - Lieutenant Gen W.E. Odom
#
#
# “The invasion of Iraq will turn out to be the
# greatest strategic disaster in U.S. history,”
#
# "Many U.S. officers in Iraq, especially at
# company and field grade levels, know that
# while they are winning every tactical battle,
# they are losing strategically."
#
# "A US withdrawal would see Al Qaida expelled.
# It cannot operate in Kurdish and Shiite areas,
# and is equally despised by the Sunnis, but accepted
# by them as an ally against the US."
#
# "Lieutenant General William E. Odom, U.S. Army (ret.),
# is a senior fellow with the Hudson Institute and a
# professor at Yale University. He was Reagans director
# of the National Security Agency from 1985 to 1988.
# From 1981 to 1985, he served as assistant chief of staff for
# intelligence, the Army's senior intelligence officer. From 1977 to
# 1981, he was military assistant to the
# president's assistant for national security affairs,
# Zbigniew Brzezinsk"
#
# "the U.S. will not leave behind a liberal,
# constitutional democracy in Iraq no matter
# how long it stays. Holding elections is easy.
# It is impossible to make it a constitutional
# democracy in a hurry.
#
# President Bush's statements about progress in
# Iraq are increasingly resembling LBJ's statements
# during the Vietnam War. For instance, Johnson's
# comments about the 1968 election are very similar
# to what Bush said in February 2005 after the
# election of a provisional parliament.
#
# Ask the president: Why should we expect a different
# outcome in Iraq than in Vietnam?"
#
#http://www.antiwar.com/orig/odom.php?articleid=7487
------------
"Why of course the people don't want war...
But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy,
and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along,
whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship...
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders.
That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they're being attacked,
and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the
country to danger."
- Hermann Goering (Gestapo/Nazi leader), Nuremberg, 1946
------------
The true-blue Homestead;
http://geocities.com/fairdinkum_trueblue/
-----------

Cant wait till they invade Iran ,

That's the difference between us, and why you and the
oil Imperialists look the same in your lust for war.

Post by kangarooistan
it will make Iraq look like a sunday school picnic

That's why no one should relish it.

Post by kangarooistan
kangarooistan
==============