Discussion:
Racism alive and well in Ardern cabinet
(too old to reply)
JohnO
2020-02-29 18:28:45 UTC
Permalink
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html

Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad virtue signaling anyway.
Tony
2020-02-29 20:17:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
John Bowes
2020-02-29 21:32:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If Peters had a trace of morality he'd have stood down. Regrettably Peters seems to have become convinced of his godhood in New Zealand politics and we could with just a little bit of luck see him back fishing next year.
Rich80105
2020-02-29 23:16:41 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Tony
2020-03-01 00:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
Tony
2020-03-01 00:33:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
However, regardless of that the clear racism from a cabinet minister is
disgraceful (just pointing out your deliberate ignoring of the thread purpose).
Rich80105
2020-03-01 01:04:41 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:33:32 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
However, regardless of that the clear racism from a cabinet minister is
disgraceful (just pointing out your deliberate ignoring of the thread purpose).
I agree with your concern aboutthe statement, but it is arguable that
it is not racism - just that Jones has addressed the wrong targets.
The students are largely (but not toally) blameless - it is the
crooked immigration agents and the private education providers who
connived to bring students in, many of whom were victims of the lax
oversight of the then government. That this was largely from the
Indian community is a matter of record; but I agree that the
dog-whistle from Jones is reprehensible.

Nevertheless, you call for a Minister standing aside does seem to be a
very selective call - you do not seem concerned that another party see
nothing wrong in National's Chief Whip being later charged with an
offence for illegal actions relating to a donation to the party. So
much for personal responsibility!
Tony
2020-03-01 01:27:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:33:32 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
However, regardless of that the clear racism from a cabinet minister is
disgraceful (just pointing out your deliberate ignoring of the thread purpose).
I agree with your concern aboutthe statement, but it is arguable that
it is not racism - just that Jones has addressed the wrong targets.
The students are largely (but not toally) blameless - it is the
crooked immigration agents and the private education providers who
connived to bring students in, many of whom were victims of the lax
oversight of the then government. That this was largely from the
Indian community is a matter of record; but I agree that the
dog-whistle from Jones is reprehensible.
He should be sanctioned.
Post by Rich80105
Nevertheless, you call for a Minister standing aside does seem to be a
very selective call - you do not seem concerned that another party see
nothing wrong in National's Chief Whip being later charged with an
offence for illegal actions relating to a donation to the party. So
much for personal responsibility!
Irrelevant, he is no longer a member of the party. In the past. Move on!
Rich80105
2020-03-01 01:08:44 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:15:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
As you know, there will be no charges against NZ First, just as there
were none against National for actions by their Chief Whip.
Post by Tony
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
As you know the investigations relate to actions by individuals. We do
not know who may be charged - for all we know investigations into the
National Party may well be continuing.
Post by Tony
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
What actions of Winston implicated him, Tony? You do not know, and
are just making noises. If he has done wrong then I hope he is
charged, and as I have previously said I hope any court cases can be
completed prior to the election, but you are just barking at the moon,
Tony
Tony
2020-03-01 01:26:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:15:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
As you know, there will be no charges against NZ First, just as there
were none against National for actions by their Chief Whip.
Post by Tony
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
As you know the investigations relate to actions by individuals. We do
not know who may be charged - for all we know investigations into the
National Party may well be continuing.
Post by Tony
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
What actions of Winston implicated him, Tony? You do not know, and
are just making noises. If he has done wrong then I hope he is
charged, and as I have previously said I hope any court cases can be
completed prior to the election, but you are just barking at the moon,
Tony
What nonsense. It is about integrity. And you clearly believe that unless it is
actually illegal it is OK. Right?
Something you have incorrectly accused myself and others of.
Rich80105
2020-03-01 06:07:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:26:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:15:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
As you know, there will be no charges against NZ First, just as there
were none against National for actions by their Chief Whip.
Post by Tony
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
As you know the investigations relate to actions by individuals. We do
not know who may be charged - for all we know investigations into the
National Party may well be continuing.
Post by Tony
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
What actions of Winston implicated him, Tony? You do not know, and
are just making noises. If he has done wrong then I hope he is
charged, and as I have previously said I hope any court cases can be
completed prior to the election, but you are just barking at the moon,
Tony
What nonsense. It is about integrity.
So what is Peters implicated in exactly, Tony? What is the matter of
integrity you are concerned about?
Post by Tony
And you clearly believe that unless it is
actually illegal it is OK. Right?
Something you have incorrectly accused myself and others of.
I have accused National of having the attitude that illegality and
prosecutions are OK so long as their people are not convicted. I don't
think I have ever accused you of that attitude; you have I think
previously claimed that you are not a National supporter and that you
have voted for other parties in the past; but possibly that was
someone else.
Tony
2020-03-01 06:17:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:26:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:15:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of
Peters,
who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
As you know, there will be no charges against NZ First, just as there
were none against National for actions by their Chief Whip.
Post by Tony
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
As you know the investigations relate to actions by individuals. We do
not know who may be charged - for all we know investigations into the
National Party may well be continuing.
Post by Tony
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
What actions of Winston implicated him, Tony? You do not know, and
are just making noises. If he has done wrong then I hope he is
charged, and as I have previously said I hope any court cases can be
completed prior to the election, but you are just barking at the moon,
Tony
What nonsense. It is about integrity.
So what is Peters implicated in exactly, Tony? What is the matter of
integrity you are concerned about?
He is deputy PM and should be above reproach, but he isn't. Simple really. Or
don't you want your deputy PM to have integrity? Thought not!
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
And you clearly believe that unless it is
actually illegal it is OK. Right?
Something you have incorrectly accused myself and others of.
I have accused National of having the attitude that illegality and
prosecutions are OK so long as their people are not convicted. I don't
think I have ever accused you of that attitude
You most certainly have done that.
Post by Rich80105
; you have I think
previously claimed that you are not a National supporter and that you
have voted for other parties in the past; but possibly that was
someone else.
No that was me. But it has nothing at all to do with this thread.
Can you actually add anything of value?
Rich80105
2020-03-01 07:34:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 00:17:21 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:26:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:15:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of
Peters,
who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
As you know, there will be no charges against NZ First, just as there
were none against National for actions by their Chief Whip.
Post by Tony
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
As you know the investigations relate to actions by individuals. We do
not know who may be charged - for all we know investigations into the
National Party may well be continuing.
Post by Tony
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
What actions of Winston implicated him, Tony? You do not know, and
are just making noises. If he has done wrong then I hope he is
charged, and as I have previously said I hope any court cases can be
completed prior to the election, but you are just barking at the moon,
Tony
What nonsense. It is about integrity.
So what is Peters implicated in exactly, Tony? What is the matter of
integrity you are concerned about?
He is deputy PM and should be above reproach, but he isn't.
Not above reroach is not quite the same as being implicated - butthe
common theme is that you make statements that you cannot explain, you
refuse to answer questions by shuffling words but not explaining what
you are talking about. What is it that yu are accusing Peters of,
Tony? That yu don;t particularly like him appears evident, but it is
not a chargeable offence!
Post by Tony
Simple really. Or
don't you want your deputy PM to have integrity? Thought not!
He is your deputy PM as well; I do not claim any special relationship
- but you do not seem to be able to point to anything he is supose to
have done to justify your impugning his integrity. Put up or shut up,
Tony.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
And you clearly believe that unless it is
actually illegal it is OK. Right?
Something you have incorrectly accused myself and others of.
I have accused National of having the attitude that illegality and
prosecutions are OK so long as their people are not convicted. I don't
think I have ever accused you of that attitude
You most certainly have done that.
Post by Rich80105
; you have I think
previously claimed that you are not a National supporter and that you
have voted for other parties in the past; but possibly that was
someone else.
No that was me. But it has nothing at all to do with this thread.
Can you actually add anything of value?
Tony
2020-03-01 19:33:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 00:17:21 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:26:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:15:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too
busy
abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of
Peters,
who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
As you know, there will be no charges against NZ First, just as there
were none against National for actions by their Chief Whip.
Post by Tony
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
As you know the investigations relate to actions by individuals. We do
not know who may be charged - for all we know investigations into the
National Party may well be continuing.
Post by Tony
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
What actions of Winston implicated him, Tony? You do not know, and
are just making noises. If he has done wrong then I hope he is
charged, and as I have previously said I hope any court cases can be
completed prior to the election, but you are just barking at the moon,
Tony
What nonsense. It is about integrity.
So what is Peters implicated in exactly, Tony? What is the matter of
integrity you are concerned about?
He is deputy PM and should be above reproach, but he isn't.
Not above reroach is not quite the same as being implicated - butthe
common theme is that you make statements that you cannot explain, you
refuse to answer questions by shuffling words but not explaining what
you are talking about. What is it that yu are accusing Peters of,
Tony? That yu don;t particularly like him appears evident, but it is
not a chargeable offence!
Post by Tony
Simple really. Or
don't you want your deputy PM to have integrity? Thought not!
He is your deputy PM as well; I do not claim any special relationship
- but you do not seem to be able to point to anything he is supose to
have done to justify your impugning his integrity. Put up or shut up,
Tony.
Wine box - a heap of lies.
The NZ First hidden donations.
Just the start - he does not have the integrity we deserve.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
And you clearly believe that unless it is
actually illegal it is OK. Right?
Something you have incorrectly accused myself and others of.
I have accused National of having the attitude that illegality and
prosecutions are OK so long as their people are not convicted. I don't
think I have ever accused you of that attitude
You most certainly have done that.
Post by Rich80105
; you have I think
previously claimed that you are not a National supporter and that you
have voted for other parties in the past; but possibly that was
someone else.
No that was me. But it has nothing at all to do with this thread.
Can you actually add anything of value?
John Bowes
2020-03-01 20:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 00:17:21 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:26:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:15:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too
busy
abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of
Peters,
who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
As you know, there will be no charges against NZ First, just as there
were none against National for actions by their Chief Whip.
Post by Tony
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
As you know the investigations relate to actions by individuals. We do
not know who may be charged - for all we know investigations into the
National Party may well be continuing.
Post by Tony
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
What actions of Winston implicated him, Tony? You do not know, and
are just making noises. If he has done wrong then I hope he is
charged, and as I have previously said I hope any court cases can be
completed prior to the election, but you are just barking at the moon,
Tony
What nonsense. It is about integrity.
So what is Peters implicated in exactly, Tony? What is the matter of
integrity you are concerned about?
He is deputy PM and should be above reproach, but he isn't.
Not above reroach is not quite the same as being implicated - butthe
common theme is that you make statements that you cannot explain, you
refuse to answer questions by shuffling words but not explaining what
you are talking about. What is it that yu are accusing Peters of,
Tony? That yu don;t particularly like him appears evident, but it is
not a chargeable offence!
Post by Tony
Simple really. Or
don't you want your deputy PM to have integrity? Thought not!
He is your deputy PM as well; I do not claim any special relationship
- but you do not seem to be able to point to anything he is supose to
have done to justify your impugning his integrity. Put up or shut up,
Tony.
Wine box - a heap of lies.
The NZ First hidden donations.
Just the start - he does not have the integrity we deserve.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
And you clearly believe that unless it is
actually illegal it is OK. Right?
Something you have incorrectly accused myself and others of.
I have accused National of having the attitude that illegality and
prosecutions are OK so long as their people are not convicted. I don't
think I have ever accused you of that attitude
You most certainly have done that.
Post by Rich80105
; you have I think
previously claimed that you are not a National supporter and that you
have voted for other parties in the past; but possibly that was
someone else.
No that was me. But it has nothing at all to do with this thread.
Can you actually add anything of value?
You forget scampi and previous funding scandals tony? Peters is and has always been a dodgy little man! Integrity, ethics and morals don't appear in his dictionary much like Rich and Keith!
Rich80105
2020-03-01 22:22:51 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 13:33:59 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 00:17:21 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:26:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:15:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too
busy
abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of
Peters,
who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
As you know, there will be no charges against NZ First, just as there
were none against National for actions by their Chief Whip.
Post by Tony
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
As you know the investigations relate to actions by individuals. We do
not know who may be charged - for all we know investigations into the
National Party may well be continuing.
Post by Tony
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
What actions of Winston implicated him, Tony? You do not know, and
are just making noises. If he has done wrong then I hope he is
charged, and as I have previously said I hope any court cases can be
completed prior to the election, but you are just barking at the moon,
Tony
What nonsense. It is about integrity.
So what is Peters implicated in exactly, Tony? What is the matter of
integrity you are concerned about?
He is deputy PM and should be above reproach, but he isn't.
Not above reroach is not quite the same as being implicated - butthe
common theme is that you make statements that you cannot explain, you
refuse to answer questions by shuffling words but not explaining what
you are talking about. What is it that yu are accusing Peters of,
Tony? That yu don;t particularly like him appears evident, but it is
not a chargeable offence!
Post by Tony
Simple really. Or
don't you want your deputy PM to have integrity? Thought not!
He is your deputy PM as well; I do not claim any special relationship
- but you do not seem to be able to point to anything he is supose to
have done to justify your impugning his integrity. Put up or shut up,
Tony.
Wine box - a heap of lies.
Irrelevant - you are just trying to distract from current events. He
has been re-elected quite a few times since those days.
Post by Tony
The NZ First hidden donations.
I agree - hidden donations by National, Labour and NZ First are all of
concern, and in my view there should be changes to the law, but yuo
have not indicated any wrong on the part of Peters. There are
investigations continuing, but one investigation resulted in charges
for an MP who at the time of the alleged offence was National's Chief
Whip, and relating to a donation which we know was discussed with
Simon Bridges. The concern about Bridges was such that a specific
statement was made that he was not being charged. There have been no
charged in relation to other parties, but investigations continue.
So if you are concerned about sonations, there is at this time more
concern about a party that has had one person charged than other
parties with none charged.
Post by Tony
Just the start - he does not have the integrity we deserve.
Not even the start - you have still not be able to point to anything
he is supposed to have done to justify your impugning his integrity.
Again, Tony, put up or shut up.
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
And you clearly believe that unless it is
actually illegal it is OK. Right?
Something you have incorrectly accused myself and others of.
I have accused National of having the attitude that illegality and
prosecutions are OK so long as their people are not convicted. I don't
think I have ever accused you of that attitude
You most certainly have done that.
Post by Rich80105
; you have I think
previously claimed that you are not a National supporter and that you
have voted for other parties in the past; but possibly that was
someone else.
No that was me. But it has nothing at all to do with this thread.
Can you actually add anything of value?
Tony
2020-03-01 23:59:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 13:33:59 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sun, 01 Mar 2020 00:17:21 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 19:26:19 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:15:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too
busy
abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of
Peters,
who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
As you know, there will be no charges against NZ First, just as there
were none against National for actions by their Chief Whip.
Post by Tony
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
As you know the investigations relate to actions by individuals. We do
not know who may be charged - for all we know investigations into the
National Party may well be continuing.
Post by Tony
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
What actions of Winston implicated him, Tony? You do not know, and
are just making noises. If he has done wrong then I hope he is
charged, and as I have previously said I hope any court cases can be
completed prior to the election, but you are just barking at the moon,
Tony
What nonsense. It is about integrity.
So what is Peters implicated in exactly, Tony? What is the matter of
integrity you are concerned about?
He is deputy PM and should be above reproach, but he isn't.
Not above reroach is not quite the same as being implicated - butthe
common theme is that you make statements that you cannot explain, you
refuse to answer questions by shuffling words but not explaining what
you are talking about. What is it that yu are accusing Peters of,
Tony? That yu don;t particularly like him appears evident, but it is
not a chargeable offence!
Post by Tony
Simple really. Or
don't you want your deputy PM to have integrity? Thought not!
He is your deputy PM as well; I do not claim any special relationship
- but you do not seem to be able to point to anything he is supose to
have done to justify your impugning his integrity. Put up or shut up,
Tony.
Wine box - a heap of lies.
Irrelevant - you are just trying to distract from current events. He
has been re-elected quite a few times since those days.
Of course it is not irrelevant. It is an indcator of poor integrity. And that
is that.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
The NZ First hidden donations.
I agree - hidden donations by National, Labour and NZ First are all of
concern, and in my view there should be changes to the law, but yuo
have not indicated any wrong on the part of Peters.
Yesx I have. And the other parties have nothinf whatsoever to do with the
subject. And that is also that.
There are
Post by Rich80105
investigations continuing, but one investigation resulted in charges
for an MP who at the time of the alleged offence was National's Chief
Whip, and relating to a donation which we know was discussed with
Simon Bridges. The concern about Bridges was such that a specific
statement was made that he was not being charged. There have been no
charged in relation to other parties, but investigations continue.
So if you are concerned about sonations, there is at this time more
concern about a party that has had one person charged than other
parties with none charged.
Post by Tony
Just the start - he does not have the integrity we deserve.
Not even the start - you have still not be able to point to anything
he is supposed to have done to justify your impugning his integrity.
Again, Tony, put up or shut up.
I already have several times. So stop lying and accept the reality of this
situation.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
And you clearly believe that unless it is
actually illegal it is OK. Right?
Something you have incorrectly accused myself and others of.
I have accused National of having the attitude that illegality and
prosecutions are OK so long as their people are not convicted. I don't
think I have ever accused you of that attitude
You most certainly have done that.
Post by Rich80105
; you have I think
previously claimed that you are not a National supporter and that you
have voted for other parties in the past; but possibly that was
someone else.
No that was me. But it has nothing at all to do with this thread.
Can you actually add anything of value?
John Bowes
2020-03-01 10:16:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 18:15:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage? If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
Of course it should apply to all parties but NZ First is the only party
implicated at this time.
As you know, there will be no charges against NZ First, just as there
were none against National for actions by their Chief Whip.
Post by Tony
No other party (or their affiliated trusts) are being investigated.
As you know the investigations relate to actions by individuals. We do
not know who may be charged - for all we know investigations into the
National Party may well be continuing.
Post by Tony
Winston is implicated right now and integrity is nowehere to be seen. Shameful.
What actions of Winston implicated him, Tony? You do not know, and
are just making noises. If he has done wrong then I hope he is
charged, and as I have previously said I hope any court cases can be
completed prior to the election, but you are just barking at the moon,
Tony
What nonsense. It is about integrity. And you clearly believe that unless it is
actually illegal it is OK. Right?
Something you have incorrectly accused myself and others of.
Never forget that in Richie's book it's Rich and Labour good/ everyone who disagrees with them bad :)
Crash
2020-03-02 07:59:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.




--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2020-03-02 08:43:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.
Which is why I asked about all parties, not just government parties.
Simon Bridges was personally invovled in actions which led directly to
a prosecution for the then Party Whip. Why is it OK for Natinal not to
stand down Simon Bridges, but you think Winston Peters should be stood
down when you cannot point to similar invovlement in any illegal
activity - or even that such illegal activity exists!
Crash
2020-03-02 22:18:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.
Which is why I asked about all parties, not just government parties.
Simon Bridges was personally invovled in actions which led directly to
a prosecution for the then Party Whip. Why is it OK for Natinal not to
stand down Simon Bridges, but you think Winston Peters should be stood
down when you cannot point to similar invovlement in any illegal
activity - or even that such illegal activity exists!
Are you really that dense? Simon Bridges is not in government.
Winston Peters is the Deputy PM and a Minister of the Crown.

Who do you think can stand down Simon Bridges and given that he is not
in government why is this appropriate?


--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2020-03-02 23:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.
Which is why I asked about all parties, not just government parties.
Simon Bridges was personally invovled in actions which led directly to
a prosecution for the then Party Whip. Why is it OK for Natinal not to
stand down Simon Bridges, but you think Winston Peters should be stood
down when you cannot point to similar invovlement in any illegal
activity - or even that such illegal activity exists!
Are you really that dense? Simon Bridges is not in government.
Winston Peters is the Deputy PM and a Minister of the Crown.
Who do you think can stand down Simon Bridges and given that he is not
in government why is this appropriate?
The National Caucus or National Party. You are correct that the
Government cannot remove him as Leader of the Opposition.
Tony
2020-03-03 01:57:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.
Which is why I asked about all parties, not just government parties.
Simon Bridges was personally invovled in actions which led directly to
a prosecution for the then Party Whip. Why is it OK for Natinal not to
stand down Simon Bridges, but you think Winston Peters should be stood
down when you cannot point to similar invovlement in any illegal
activity - or even that such illegal activity exists!
Are you really that dense? Simon Bridges is not in government.
Winston Peters is the Deputy PM and a Minister of the Crown.
Who do you think can stand down Simon Bridges and given that he is not
in government why is this appropriate?
The National Caucus or National Party. You are correct that the
Government cannot remove him as Leader of the Opposition.
You have failed to provide any reason why he should be sanctioned in any way by
anyone.
As for NZFirst and their cohorts, that is a different matter as you know.
Rich80105
2020-03-03 02:44:38 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 02 Mar 2020 19:57:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.
Which is why I asked about all parties, not just government parties.
Simon Bridges was personally invovled in actions which led directly to
a prosecution for the then Party Whip. Why is it OK for Natinal not to
stand down Simon Bridges, but you think Winston Peters should be stood
down when you cannot point to similar invovlement in any illegal
activity - or even that such illegal activity exists!
Are you really that dense? Simon Bridges is not in government.
Winston Peters is the Deputy PM and a Minister of the Crown.
Who do you think can stand down Simon Bridges and given that he is not
in government why is this appropriate?
The National Caucus or National Party. You are correct that the
Government cannot remove him as Leader of the Opposition.
You have failed to provide any reason why he should be sanctioned in any way by
anyone.
As for NZFirst and their cohorts, that is a different matter as you know.
Surely you recall the telephone conversation with his Chief Whip
regarding a large donation from one person?
Tony
2020-03-03 03:45:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 02 Mar 2020 19:57:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too
busy
abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.
Which is why I asked about all parties, not just government parties.
Simon Bridges was personally invovled in actions which led directly to
a prosecution for the then Party Whip. Why is it OK for Natinal not to
stand down Simon Bridges, but you think Winston Peters should be stood
down when you cannot point to similar invovlement in any illegal
activity - or even that such illegal activity exists!
Are you really that dense? Simon Bridges is not in government.
Winston Peters is the Deputy PM and a Minister of the Crown.
Who do you think can stand down Simon Bridges and given that he is not
in government why is this appropriate?
The National Caucus or National Party. You are correct that the
Government cannot remove him as Leader of the Opposition.
You have failed to provide any reason why he should be sanctioned in any way by
anyone.
As for NZFirst and their cohorts, that is a different matter as you know.
Surely you recall the telephone conversation with his Chief Whip
regarding a large donation from one person?
Containing no evidence of wrongdoing by the party leader..
Do get a life.
Rich80105
2020-03-03 04:37:59 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 02 Mar 2020 21:45:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 02 Mar 2020 19:57:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too
busy
abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of
Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.
Which is why I asked about all parties, not just government parties.
Simon Bridges was personally invovled in actions which led directly to
a prosecution for the then Party Whip. Why is it OK for Natinal not to
stand down Simon Bridges, but you think Winston Peters should be stood
down when you cannot point to similar invovlement in any illegal
activity - or even that such illegal activity exists!
Are you really that dense? Simon Bridges is not in government.
Winston Peters is the Deputy PM and a Minister of the Crown.
Who do you think can stand down Simon Bridges and given that he is not
in government why is this appropriate?
The National Caucus or National Party. You are correct that the
Government cannot remove him as Leader of the Opposition.
You have failed to provide any reason why he should be sanctioned in any way by
anyone.
As for NZFirst and their cohorts, that is a different matter as you know.
Surely you recall the telephone conversation with his Chief Whip
regarding a large donation from one person?
Containing no evidence of wrongdoing by the party leader..
As we have previously discussed, with the National party a lack of
enough evidence to convict is sufficent - I see you embrace that
philosophy . . .
Post by Tony
Do get a life.
Oh I am, Tony, don;t worry about that
Tony
2020-03-03 05:55:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 02 Mar 2020 21:45:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 02 Mar 2020 19:57:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too
busy
abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of
Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.
Which is why I asked about all parties, not just government parties.
Simon Bridges was personally invovled in actions which led directly to
a prosecution for the then Party Whip. Why is it OK for Natinal not to
stand down Simon Bridges, but you think Winston Peters should be stood
down when you cannot point to similar invovlement in any illegal
activity - or even that such illegal activity exists!
Are you really that dense? Simon Bridges is not in government.
Winston Peters is the Deputy PM and a Minister of the Crown.
Who do you think can stand down Simon Bridges and given that he is not
in government why is this appropriate?
The National Caucus or National Party. You are correct that the
Government cannot remove him as Leader of the Opposition.
You have failed to provide any reason why he should be sanctioned in any
way
by
anyone.
As for NZFirst and their cohorts, that is a different matter as you know.
Surely you recall the telephone conversation with his Chief Whip
regarding a large donation from one person?
Containing no evidence of wrongdoing by the party leader..
As we have previously discussed, with the National party a lack of
enough evidence to convict is sufficent - I see you embrace that
philosophy . . .
No I do not but you fail to understand any principles of justice.
Post by Rich80105
Post by Tony
Do get a life.
Oh I am, Tony, don;t worry about that
Oh, did you get the impression that I cared?
JohnO
2020-03-03 06:29:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 02 Mar 2020 21:45:46 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
On Mon, 02 Mar 2020 19:57:08 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too
busy
abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of
Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.
Which is why I asked about all parties, not just government parties.
Simon Bridges was personally invovled in actions which led directly to
a prosecution for the then Party Whip. Why is it OK for Natinal not to
stand down Simon Bridges, but you think Winston Peters should be stood
down when you cannot point to similar invovlement in any illegal
activity - or even that such illegal activity exists!
Are you really that dense? Simon Bridges is not in government.
Winston Peters is the Deputy PM and a Minister of the Crown.
Who do you think can stand down Simon Bridges and given that he is not
in government why is this appropriate?
The National Caucus or National Party. You are correct that the
Government cannot remove him as Leader of the Opposition.
You have failed to provide any reason why he should be sanctioned in any way by
anyone.
As for NZFirst and their cohorts, that is a different matter as you know.
Surely you recall the telephone conversation with his Chief Whip
regarding a large donation from one person?
Containing no evidence of wrongdoing by the party leader..
As we have previously discussed, with the National party a lack of
enough evidence to convict is sufficent - I see you embrace that
philosophy . . .
Post by Tony
Do get a life.
Oh I am, Tony, don;t worry about that
Your so called "life" amounts to apologising for Labour. Tony was suggesting you attempt something else - something that has a modicum of worth.
John Bowes
2020-03-04 21:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy
abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.
Which is why I asked about all parties, not just government parties.
Simon Bridges was personally invovled in actions which led directly to
a prosecution for the then Party Whip. Why is it OK for Natinal not to
stand down Simon Bridges, but you think Winston Peters should be stood
down when you cannot point to similar invovlement in any illegal
activity - or even that such illegal activity exists!
Are you really that dense? Simon Bridges is not in government.
Winston Peters is the Deputy PM and a Minister of the Crown.
Who do you think can stand down Simon Bridges and given that he is not
in government why is this appropriate?
The National Caucus or National Party. You are correct that the
Government cannot remove him as Leader of the Opposition.
You have failed to provide any reason why he should be sanctioned in any way by
anyone.
As for NZFirst and their cohorts, that is a different matter as you know.
Just another distraction from Rich in a vain attempt to make NZF look like the saviours of the country rather than the worm in a rotten government!
Crash
2020-03-03 07:31:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.
Which is why I asked about all parties, not just government parties.
Simon Bridges was personally invovled in actions which led directly to
a prosecution for the then Party Whip. Why is it OK for Natinal not to
stand down Simon Bridges, but you think Winston Peters should be stood
down when you cannot point to similar invovlement in any illegal
activity - or even that such illegal activity exists!
Are you really that dense? Simon Bridges is not in government.
Winston Peters is the Deputy PM and a Minister of the Crown.
Who do you think can stand down Simon Bridges and given that he is not
in government why is this appropriate?
The National Caucus or National Party. You are correct that the
Government cannot remove him as Leader of the Opposition.
Words fail me. The National Party and Caucus have no standing in
Parliament. While the National party and the caucus no doubt have
ways to censure MPs, this is in no way related to the powers that the
PM has to deal with Cabinet Ministers. You reveal your desperation to
smear National by what you have said.

Again I refer to the actions that Labour PM Helen Clark took to deal
with allegations leveled against NZF when Winston Peters was her
Deputy PM - she stood him down in almost identical circumstances to
those current. On an unrelated issue, PM Jenny Shipley actually
dismissed Winston Peters in 1998 over another issue. My point is that
Winston, as leader of NZF and Deputy PM, has form with other PMs who
dealt to him in a way that Ardern appears unable to do.


--
Crash McBash
JohnO
2020-03-03 18:10:01 UTC
Permalink
And this time Winston has priors so ought to be dealt with more firmly and promptly than in the past.

But impotent Ardern can do nothing.
JohnO
2020-03-02 23:46:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
On Sat, 29 Feb 2020 14:17:57 -0600, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
Post by Tony
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad
virtue signaling anyway.
She does not face the big issues, fearful of losing the support of Peters, who
should be asked to step down pending the SFO enquiry anyway.
If there are any prosecutions should Winston himself step aside at
that stage?
The question should never arise. The PM should stand Winston down (as
did Helen Clark with the Owen Glenn donations to NZF).
Post by Rich80105
If so, should that apply to all parties, Tony?
The current government consists of Labour and NZF, with support from
the Greens (though they are not a part of the government). The PM can
only stand down government members.
Which is why I asked about all parties, not just government parties.
Simon Bridges was personally invovled in actions which led directly to
a prosecution for the then Party Whip. Why is it OK for Natinal not to
stand down Simon Bridges, but you think Winston Peters should be stood
down when you cannot point to similar invovlement in any illegal
activity - or even that such illegal activity exists!
Are you really that dense? Simon Bridges is not in government.
Winston Peters is the Deputy PM and a Minister of the Crown.
Who do you think can stand down Simon Bridges and given that he is not
in government why is this appropriate?
--
Crash McBash
Yes he is that dense. Not only is Winston a minister, his party is in charge of a $3billion dollar discretionary fund, some of it being handed out to industry groups representing entities that made concealed donations to the NZF Foundation.

That smells like corruption yet Winston and Jones just give Jacinda the finger and carry on.
Gordon
2020-03-01 03:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad virtue signaling anyway.
Yes, they probably have. They have raised the standard.
Crash
2020-03-02 08:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad virtue signaling anyway.
It all goes to re-inforce the view that Ardern is impotent in dealing
with NZF Cabinet Ministers. Putting aside the fact that no Labour
minister (or MP) would be silly enough to say things like this, my bet
would be that if they did they would be dealt with appropriately.


--
Crash McBash
Rich80105
2020-03-02 09:09:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad virtue signaling anyway.
It all goes to re-inforce the view that Ardern is impotent in dealing
with NZF Cabinet Ministers. Putting aside the fact that no Labour
minister (or MP) would be silly enough to say things like this, my bet
would be that if they did they would be dealt with appropriately.
She has spoken today condemning him for being both loose with his
language and being wrong, and saying htat it endangered the
relationship between the Labour and NZ First parties. It is real
politics however, and at this stage before an election Labour probably
want the budget thrugh before they risk an early election. Yes it is
unsatisfactory, but better than the alternative of a forced early
election..
JohnO
2020-03-02 19:51:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad virtue signaling anyway.
It all goes to re-inforce the view that Ardern is impotent in dealing
with NZF Cabinet Ministers. Putting aside the fact that no Labour
minister (or MP) would be silly enough to say things like this, my bet
would be that if they did they would be dealt with appropriately.
She has spoken today condemning him for being both loose with his
language and being wrong, and saying htat it endangered the
relationship between the Labour and NZ First parties. It is real
politics however, and at this stage before an election Labour probably
want the budget thrugh before they risk an early election. Yes it is
unsatisfactory, but better than the alternative of a forced early
election..
Wow, she didn't just wet the bus ticket, she soaked it in aloe.

So better to allow an unabashed racist than risk losing power. Keeping power trumps ethics - the Labour Party as explained by Dickbot.
John Bowes
2020-03-02 20:08:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad virtue signaling anyway.
It all goes to re-inforce the view that Ardern is impotent in dealing
with NZF Cabinet Ministers. Putting aside the fact that no Labour
minister (or MP) would be silly enough to say things like this, my bet
would be that if they did they would be dealt with appropriately.
She has spoken today condemning him for being both loose with his
language and being wrong, and saying htat it endangered the
relationship between the Labour and NZ First parties. It is real
politics however, and at this stage before an election Labour probably
want the budget thrugh before they risk an early election. Yes it is
unsatisfactory, but better than the alternative of a forced early
election..
Your post is worthy of being used as fertiliser for roses Rich. That is the best use for such rich bullshit! :)
Crash
2020-03-02 22:24:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy abroad virtue signaling anyway.
It all goes to re-inforce the view that Ardern is impotent in dealing
with NZF Cabinet Ministers. Putting aside the fact that no Labour
minister (or MP) would be silly enough to say things like this, my bet
would be that if they did they would be dealt with appropriately.
She has spoken today condemning him for being both loose with his
language and being wrong, and saying htat it endangered the
relationship between the Labour and NZ First parties. It is real
politics however, and at this stage before an election Labour probably
want the budget thrugh before they risk an early election. Yes it is
unsatisfactory, but better than the alternative of a forced early
election..
I have posted before about how Ardern can and should take disciplinary
action against NZF Ministers (Winston Peters and Shane Jones at the
minute) without risking Labour's ability to 'command the confidence of
the house'. So no early election is required, Ardern simply needs to
secure a confidence-and-supply agreement with National until the
upcoming election. This would render NZF impotent and allow Ardern to
deal with NZF as she sees fit in her capacity of PM. If Ardern needs
any help from someone who has done this before I am sure Dame Jenny
Shipley's consultancy fees would be quite affordable by the taxpayer.


--
Crash McBash
Tony
2020-03-03 01:53:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crash
Post by Rich80105
Post by Crash
Post by JohnO
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/02/shane-jones-says-indian-students-have-ruined-nz-academic-institutions.html
Ardern will do nothing, because she has no leadership control. Too busy
abroad virtue signaling anyway.
It all goes to re-inforce the view that Ardern is impotent in dealing
with NZF Cabinet Ministers. Putting aside the fact that no Labour
minister (or MP) would be silly enough to say things like this, my bet
would be that if they did they would be dealt with appropriately.
She has spoken today condemning him for being both loose with his
language and being wrong, and saying htat it endangered the
relationship between the Labour and NZ First parties. It is real
politics however, and at this stage before an election Labour probably
want the budget thrugh before they risk an early election. Yes it is
unsatisfactory, but better than the alternative of a forced early
election..
I have posted before about how Ardern can and should take disciplinary
action against NZF Ministers (Winston Peters and Shane Jones at the
minute) without risking Labour's ability to 'command the confidence of
the house'. So no early election is required, Ardern simply needs to
secure a confidence-and-supply agreement with National until the
upcoming election. This would render NZF impotent and allow Ardern to
deal with NZF as she sees fit in her capacity of PM. If Ardern needs
any help from someone who has done this before I am sure Dame Jenny
Shipley's consultancy fees would be quite affordable by the taxpayer.
--
Crash McBash
No chance of her doing that. It would require a level of statesmanship and
political maturity she does not have.
Loading...