Discussion:
OT Mandatory speed limiters on UK cars from 2022
(too old to reply)
Davidm
2021-09-05 09:50:52 UTC
Permalink
Must be reading the wrong mags, only just become aware of this:
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
nightjar
2021-09-05 10:07:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less thing
I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden if I use
kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to overtake
works just as well.
--
Colin Bignell
Bob Eager
2021-09-05 17:27:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less thing
I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden if I use
kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to overtake
works just as well.
I've had an automatic speed limiter for at least five years. I use it;
particularly useful if I'm in a strange area and might miss a sign (I'm
thinking of those areas where the limit changes constantly within a few
hundred metres each time).

I can enable it and largely forget it, and concentrate on driving.
--
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Tim+
2021-09-06 06:41:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Eager
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less thing
I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden if I use
kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to overtake
works just as well.
I've had an automatic speed limiter for at least five years. I use it;
particularly useful if I'm in a strange area and might miss a sign (I'm
thinking of those areas where the limit changes constantly within a few
hundred metres each time).
I can enable it and largely forget it, and concentrate on driving.
My experience too. It is like a reversing camera; you don't know how
useful it is until you get one and you really miss it if you drive a car
without.
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Ian Jackson
2021-09-06 07:08:05 UTC
Permalink
In message
Post by Tim+
Post by Bob Eager
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less thing
I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden if I use
kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to overtake
works just as well.
I've had an automatic speed limiter for at least five years. I use it;
particularly useful if I'm in a strange area and might miss a sign (I'm
thinking of those areas where the limit changes constantly within a few
hundred metres each time).
I can enable it and largely forget it, and concentrate on driving.
My experience too. It is like a reversing camera; you don't know how
useful it is until you get one and you really miss it if you drive a car
without.
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
Not only do I do the obvious, and dip when there are oncoming motor
vehicles (when I guess auto-dipping headlights usually work), I also dip
for cyclists (when they probably won't dip reliably) and pedestrians
(when they almost certainly won't ever dip). How do you deal with these
situations?
--
Ian
nightjar
2021-09-06 07:29:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
In message
Post by Tim+
Post by Bob Eager
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less thing
I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden if I use
kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to overtake
works just as well.
I've had an automatic speed limiter for at least five years. I use it;
particularly useful if I'm in a strange area and might miss a sign (I'm
thinking of those areas where the limit changes constantly within a few
hundred metres each time).
I can enable it and largely forget it, and concentrate on driving.
My experience too. It is like a reversing camera; you don't know how
useful it is until you get one and you really miss it if you drive a car
without.
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights.  Almost makes driving at night a joy!
Not only do I do the obvious, and dip when there are oncoming motor
vehicles (when I guess auto-dipping headlights usually work),
They also dip when coming up behind another vehicle.
Post by Ian Jackson
I also dip
for cyclists (when they probably won't dip reliably) and pedestrians
(when they almost certainly won't ever dip). How do you deal with these
situations?
You manually select dipped headlights, although I would normally be
driving on dipped lights in a built up area, which is where you are most
likely to meet pedestrians and cyclists.
--
Colin Bignell
n***@aolbin.com
2021-09-06 07:50:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
In message
Post by Tim+
Post by Bob Eager
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less thing
I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden if I use
kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to overtake
works just as well.
I've had an automatic speed limiter for at least five years. I use it;
particularly useful if I'm in a strange area and might miss a sign (I'm
thinking of those areas where the limit changes constantly within a few
hundred metres each time).
I can enable it and largely forget it, and concentrate on driving.
My experience too. It is like a reversing camera; you don't know how
useful it is until you get one and you really miss it if you drive a car
without.
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights.  Almost makes driving at night a joy!
Not only do I do the obvious, and dip when there are oncoming motor
vehicles (when I guess auto-dipping headlights usually work), I also dip
for cyclists (when they probably won't dip reliably) and pedestrians
(when they almost certainly won't ever dip). How do you deal with these
situations?
My headlights detect pedestrians and cyclists (as well as cars) and
adjust the beams to form a dark block that tracks the object while the
rest of the beam stays at full. The lights have gazillions of LEDs with
moveable mirrors, apparently. It's an excellent system but watching the
lights do their thing was a little distracting at first and always
entertains passengers who haven't seen it before.

Back to limiters - the car has one as part of the cruise control system
but, while I use cruise all the time (including to help with regen
braking/charging when needing to slow down), I don't use the limiter
because it has to be set manually. If it automagically, and reliably,
set the correct limit then it might be useful at times but I can imagine
problems overtaking, and it also feels like a big brother intervention.
The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-06 08:05:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by n***@aolbin.com
Back to limiters - the car has one as part of the cruise control system
but, while I use cruise all the time (including to help with regen
braking/charging when needing to slow down), I don't use the limiter
because it has to be set manually. If it automagically, and reliably,
set the correct limit then it might be useful at times but I can imagine
problems overtaking, and it also feels like a big brother intervention.
I think mine has one too. I think I tried it once. didn't like it much.
Foot down, nothing happens.

With cruise, which I routinely use for speed limits, it's foot off,
nothing happens. Foot down works to override it

I can only see it (limiter) being useful in congestion where you are
using the right foot a lot, and don't want to accidentally exceed a
limit. IME in congestion that is never a risk.

What is far more useful is a satnav that warns you when you are in a
limit you didn't know you were in.

These days I don't deliberately exceed speed limits very often - and
never in towns
--
Karl Marx said religion is the opium of the people.
But Marxism is the crack cocaine.
Roland Perry
2021-09-06 10:22:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
I can only see it (limiter) being useful in congestion where you are
using the right foot a lot, and don't want to accidentally exceed a
limit.
25yrs ago I had a fully-loaded BMW (ex-company car bought at auction),
and the computer - which probably wasn't even officially offered on the
3-series - had a pinger that you could set.

Mine was set at 75mph [indicated, and it was the first car I had with a
digital speedo] and was quite useful because at that time I used to
drive on a motorways almost every day; but now, I'm not even sure where
the nearest one is... maybe top of M11 about 45mins away in normal
traffic.
--
Roland Perry
Rod Speed
2021-09-06 10:07:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
In message
Post by Tim+
Post by Bob Eager
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less thing
I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden if I use
kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to overtake
works just as well.
I've had an automatic speed limiter for at least five years. I use it;
particularly useful if I'm in a strange area and might miss a sign (I'm
thinking of those areas where the limit changes constantly within a few
hundred metres each time).
I can enable it and largely forget it, and concentrate on driving.
My experience too. It is like a reversing camera; you don't know how
useful it is until you get one and you really miss it if you drive a car
without.
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
Not only do I do the obvious, and dip when there are oncoming motor
vehicles (when I guess auto-dipping headlights usually work), I also dip
for cyclists (when they probably won't dip reliably) and pedestrians
(when they almost certainly won't ever dip). How do you deal with these
situations?
My headlights detect pedestrians and cyclists (as well as cars) and adjust
the beams to form a dark block that tracks the object while the rest of
the beam stays at full. The lights have gazillions of LEDs with moveable
mirrors, apparently. It's an excellent system but watching the lights do
their thing was a little distracting at first and always entertains
passengers who haven't seen it before.
Which model ?
Back to limiters - the car has one as part of the cruise control system
but, while I use cruise all the time (including to help with regen
braking/charging when needing to slow down), I don't use the limiter
because it has to be set manually. If it automagically, and reliably, set
the correct limit then it might be useful at times
No reason why it cant do that using the database and
signs for temporary speed limits with road works etc.
but I can imagine problems overtaking,
Nope, you are free to override the speed limit.
and it also feels like a big brother intervention.
So are speed limits.
Peeler
2021-09-06 11:05:40 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 6 Sep 2021 20:07:32 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent
Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: <***@mid.individual.net>
Bob Eager
2021-09-06 08:42:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
In message
Post by Tim+
Post by Bob Eager
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less
thing I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be
over-ridden if I use kick down, but I find looking well ahead and
planning when to overtake works just as well.
I've had an automatic speed limiter for at least five years. I use
it; particularly useful if I'm in a strange area and might miss a
sign (I'm thinking of those areas where the limit changes constantly
within a few hundred metres each time).
I can enable it and largely forget it, and concentrate on driving.
My experience too. It is like a reversing camera; you don't know how
useful it is until you get one and you really miss it if you drive a
car without.
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
Not only do I do the obvious, and dip when there are oncoming motor
vehicles (when I guess auto-dipping headlights usually work), I also dip
for cyclists (when they probably won't dip reliably) and pedestrians
(when they almost certainly won't ever dip). How do you deal with these
situations?
You use the dip control. It's still there.
--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
Tim+
2021-09-06 10:30:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
In message
Post by Tim+
Post by Bob Eager
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less thing
I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden if I use
kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to overtake
works just as well.
I've had an automatic speed limiter for at least five years. I use it;
particularly useful if I'm in a strange area and might miss a sign (I'm
thinking of those areas where the limit changes constantly within a few
hundred metres each time).
I can enable it and largely forget it, and concentrate on driving.
My experience too. It is like a reversing camera; you don't know how
useful it is until you get one and you really miss it if you drive a car
without.
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
Not only do I do the obvious, and dip when there are oncoming motor
vehicles (when I guess auto-dipping headlights usually work), I also dip
for cyclists (when they probably won't dip reliably) and pedestrians
(when they almost certainly won't ever dip). How do you deal with these
situations?
I use the dip switch. In practice, I’ve never had to. The lights auto-dip
in street lit areas. I’ve not met any cyclists/pedestrians outwith those
areas yet.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Tim Streater
2021-09-06 12:08:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by Ian Jackson
In message
Post by Tim+
Post by Bob Eager
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less thing
I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden if I use
kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to overtake
works just as well.
I've had an automatic speed limiter for at least five years. I use it;
particularly useful if I'm in a strange area and might miss a sign (I'm
thinking of those areas where the limit changes constantly within a few
hundred metres each time).
I can enable it and largely forget it, and concentrate on driving.
My experience too. It is like a reversing camera; you don't know how
useful it is until you get one and you really miss it if you drive a car
without.
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
Not only do I do the obvious, and dip when there are oncoming motor
vehicles (when I guess auto-dipping headlights usually work), I also dip
for cyclists (when they probably won't dip reliably) and pedestrians
(when they almost certainly won't ever dip). How do you deal with these
situations?
I use the dip switch. In practice, I’ve never had to. The lights auto-dip
in street lit areas. I’ve not met any cyclists/pedestrians outwith those
areas yet.
You sure it's not auto-dipping because you're under 30mph? That is what mine
does if I've just turned into some road in the country or I'm slowing on some
windy downhill bit.

It works (FSVO works). I don't use it, as it works so poorly.
--
"I love the way that Microsoft follows standards. In much the same manner as fish follow migrating caribou."
- Paul Tomblin, ASR
Tim Streater
2021-09-06 07:30:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by Bob Eager
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less thing
I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden if I use
kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to overtake
works just as well.
I've had an automatic speed limiter for at least five years. I use it;
particularly useful if I'm in a strange area and might miss a sign (I'm
thinking of those areas where the limit changes constantly within a few
hundred metres each time).
I can enable it and largely forget it, and concentrate on driving.
My experience too. It is like a reversing camera; you don't know how
useful it is until you get one and you really miss it if you drive a car
without.
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
These should be banned as they never dip in time.
--
"Freedom is sloppy. But since tyranny's the only guaranteed byproduct of those who insist on a perfect world, freedom will have to do." -- Bigby Wolf
Tim+
2021-09-06 10:33:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Tim+
Post by Bob Eager
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less thing
I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden if I use
kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to overtake
works just as well.
I've had an automatic speed limiter for at least five years. I use it;
particularly useful if I'm in a strange area and might miss a sign (I'm
thinking of those areas where the limit changes constantly within a few
hundred metres each time).
I can enable it and largely forget it, and concentrate on driving.
My experience too. It is like a reversing camera; you don't know how
useful it is until you get one and you really miss it if you drive a car
without.
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
These should be banned as they never dip in time.
A sweeping generalisation I think. Mine work remarkably well. I was
doubtful at first but experience has shown that they work very reliably in
my car. YMMV.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Chris J Dixon
2021-09-06 12:18:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Tim+
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
These should be banned as they never dip in time.
A sweeping generalisation I think. Mine work remarkably well. I was
doubtful at first but experience has shown that they work very reliably in
my car. YMMV.
+1

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.
Tim Streater
2021-09-06 13:12:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Tim+
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
These should be banned as they never dip in time.
A sweeping generalisation I think. Mine work remarkably well. I was
doubtful at first but experience has shown that they work very reliably in
my car. YMMV.
+1
And how do you know what the experience is for on-coming drivers?
--
27/6/1975 - Herbert Kiebler shot and killed trying to cross Berlin Wall.

"A reminder that the defining characteristic of a socialist regime is coercion, not equality."

Dan Hannan
Steve Walker
2021-09-06 14:00:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Tim+
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Tim+
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
These should be banned as they never dip in time.
A sweeping generalisation I think. Mine work remarkably well. I was
doubtful at first but experience has shown that they work very reliably in
my car. YMMV.
+1
And how do you know what the experience is for on-coming drivers?
Well, he'll know when his lights dip and how that compares to when he
would normally dip them himself - so he knows as much about the
experience for other drivers as anyone else does.
Tim+
2021-09-06 16:52:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Tim+
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Tim+
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
These should be banned as they never dip in time.
A sweeping generalisation I think. Mine work remarkably well. I was
doubtful at first but experience has shown that they work very reliably in
my car. YMMV.
+1
And how do you know what the experience is for on-coming drivers?
Unlike you apparently, I don’t drive with my eyes closed. It’s perfectly
obvious when my lights dip and if the system errs in any direction, it
tends to dip fractionally earlier than I might have chosen to.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
72y33
2021-09-06 21:50:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Tim+
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Tim+
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
These should be banned as they never dip in time.
A sweeping generalisation I think. Mine work remarkably well. I was
doubtful at first but experience has shown that they work very reliably in
my car. YMMV.
+1
And how do you know what the experience is for on-coming drivers?
When it does as well as you do it manually.
Peeler
2021-09-06 22:00:06 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 7 Sep 2021 07:50:48 +1000, 72y33, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
"Anonymous" to trolling senile Rodent Speed:
"You can fuck off as you know less than pig shit you sad
little ignorant cunt."
MID: <***@haph.org>
The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-07 07:51:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by 72y33
Post by Tim Streater
And how do you know what the experience is for on-coming drivers?
When it does as well as you do it manually.
Well strictly speaking applying critical thinking to that statement,
which in essence says 'when its no worse than I am' begs the question of
just how bad you are anyway ;-)

Some auto functions on cars work better than others...and some drivcers
are better than others, too
--
“People believe certain stories because everyone important tells them,
and people tell those stories because everyone important believes them.
Indeed, when a conventional wisdom is at its fullest strength, one’s
agreement with that conventional wisdom becomes almost a litmus test of
one’s suitability to be taken seriously.”

Paul Krugman
PeterC
2021-09-06 16:12:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Tim+
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
These should be banned as they never dip in time.
A sweeping generalisation I think. Mine work remarkably well. I was
doubtful at first but experience has shown that they work very reliably in
my car. YMMV.
Tim
They can't manage obvious but unusual situations, though. Near here there's
a layout where vehicles from one way don't dazzle drivers coming out of a
village but their lights dazzle the other vehicles by shining across a
field.
When I've driven out of the village and am on the LH curve I dip, but never
seen anyone else do it. Having walked and cycled up there to the pub I know
how bad it can be, especially when there's no foliage on the hedges.
--
Peter.
The gods will stay away
whilst religions hold sway
Tim+
2021-09-06 17:04:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by PeterC
Post by Tim+
Post by Tim Streater
Post by Tim+
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
These should be banned as they never dip in time.
A sweeping generalisation I think. Mine work remarkably well. I was
doubtful at first but experience has shown that they work very reliably in
my car. YMMV.
Tim
They can't manage obvious but unusual situations, though. Near here there's
a layout where vehicles from one way don't dazzle drivers coming out of a
village but their lights dazzle the other vehicles by shining across a
field.
When I've driven out of the village and am on the LH curve I dip, but never
seen anyone else do it. Having walked and cycled up there to the pub I know
how bad it can be, especially when there's no foliage on the hedges.
As has been mentioned before, you still have a standard manual dip-switch
control in cars with auto-dipping lights.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
#Paul
2021-09-07 19:37:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
These should be banned as they never dip in time.
Neither, in many cases, do other drivers dip in time. So
I guess the main question to ask is: are the auto-dippers
better or worse, on average, than drivers.

#Paul
Bob Eager
2021-09-06 08:39:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by Bob Eager
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less
thing I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden
if I use kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when
to overtake works just as well.
I've had an automatic speed limiter for at least five years. I use it;
particularly useful if I'm in a strange area and might miss a sign
(I'm thinking of those areas where the limit changes constantly within
a few hundred metres each time).
I can enable it and largely forget it, and concentrate on driving.
My experience too. It is like a reversing camera; you don't know how
useful it is until you get one and you really miss it if you drive a
car without.
Talking of gadgets you never knew you needed, my latest car has
auto-dipping headlights. Almost makes driving at night a joy!
Yes, I have that too. There's a windy country road that I use a lot (well
over 20,000 times by latest estimate) and it's a great thing to have.
There is one bit where there is a sharp deviation, and big reflective
chevrons. It always thinks that's an oncoming vehicle.

Blind spot system is good, too. Small light on side mirrors as a warning.
--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
Roland Perry
2021-09-06 05:59:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by nightjar
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less
thing I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden
if I use kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to
overtake works just as well.
If these aftermarket limiters are set to 70mph, it's of little use for
me, as there are very few 70mph roads that I use other than for one-off
long distance trips.

My car has a cruise control (which I never use, for much the same
reason, being able to "cruise" is an almost unobtainable luxury), but
not a limiter.
--
Roland Perry
Alex
2021-09-06 06:23:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less
thing I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden
if I use kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to
overtake works just as well.
If these aftermarket limiters
They aren't aftermarket, they are built in.
Post by Roland Perry
are set to 70mph,
They aren't set to a fixed speed, they use the speed limit.

it's of little use for
Post by Roland Perry
me, as there are very few 70mph roads that I use other than for one-off
long distance trips.
My car has a cruise control (which I never use, for much the same
reason, being able to "cruise" is an almost unobtainable luxury),
The best ones allow you to specify the distance to the car
in front of you that it cruises at.

but
Post by Roland Perry
not a limiter.
Peeler
2021-09-06 07:55:45 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 6 Sep 2021 16:23:49 +1000, Alex, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
Roland Perry
2021-09-06 10:28:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less
thing I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden
if I use kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when
to overtake works just as well.
If these aftermarket limiters
They aren't aftermarket, they are built in.
OK, so the "retro-fitted" above is a fib?
Post by Alex
Post by Roland Perry
are set to 70mph,
They aren't set to a fixed speed, they use the speed limit.
Post by Roland Perry
it's of little use for me, as there are very few 70mph roads that I
use other than for one-off long distance trips.
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera fitted")
I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in algae as to be
unreadable".

Then of course there are those "not-terribly-smart" motorways. Last week
I drove on one, and the limit went from NSL, to 50 [empty road] to 60
[still an empty road], to NSL [ie "off"] to 50 again [merging with other
traffic] in less than a quarter of a mile.
Post by Alex
Post by Roland Perry
My car has a cruise control (which I never use, for much the same
reason, being able to "cruise" is an almost unobtainable luxury),
The best ones allow you to specify the distance to the car
in front of you that it cruises at.
but
Does it take account of how slippery the road is?
--
Roland Perry
Bob Eager
2021-09-06 12:00:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Alex
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less
thing I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden
if I use kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to
overtake works just as well.
If these aftermarket limiters
They aren't aftermarket, they are built in.
OK, so the "retro-fitted" above is a fib?
It was a misunderstanding of the proposed legislation.
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera fitted")
I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in algae as to be
unreadable".
Yes, it will miss one in a hedge, but I haven't found that (rare) case to
be a problem. I believe it also uses the satnav.
Post by Roland Perry
Then of course there are those "not-terribly-smart" motorways. Last week
I drove on one, and the limit went from NSL, to 50 [empty road] to 60
[still an empty road], to NSL [ie "off"] to 50 again [merging with other
traffic] in less than a quarter of a mile.
It copes with those fine.
--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
Tim Streater
2021-09-06 12:12:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Eager
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Alex
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less
thing I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden
if I use kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to
overtake works just as well.
If these aftermarket limiters
They aren't aftermarket, they are built in.
OK, so the "retro-fitted" above is a fib?
It was a misunderstanding of the proposed legislation.
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera fitted")
I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in algae as to be
unreadable".
Yes, it will miss one in a hedge, but I haven't found that (rare) case to
be a problem. I believe it also uses the satnav.
Which presupposes that the satnav db is up to date. In spite of two car
services since it was built (at each of which they told me the satnav database
gets updated) it has still never heard of the new Runcorn bridge, and the
other day it got so confused not knowing about the completion of the new A14
Huntingdon-Cambridge that it wanted me to turn sharp left to go up an on-ramp
the wrong way.
--
"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them into it in the first place." - Douglas Adams
Steve Walker
2021-09-06 14:08:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Alex
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less
thing I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be
over-ridden if I use kick down, but I find looking well ahead and
planning when to overtake works just as well.
If these aftermarket limiters
They aren't aftermarket, they are built in.
OK, so the "retro-fitted" above is a fib?
A misunderstanding.

New car models are required to have the system as they are introduced,
from 2022, but existing models that are already in production will have
to have the system introduced into their production at a later date, so
"sort of" retrofitted to existing designs, but not to vehicles that have
already been produced.
Peeler
2021-09-06 22:00:34 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 7 Sep 2021 07:30:03 +1000, Alex, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
Norman Wells addressing trolling senile Rodent:
"Ah, the voice of scum speaks."
MID: <***@mid.individual.net>
nightjar
2021-09-06 23:18:36 UTC
Permalink
On 06/09/2021 11:28, Roland Perry wrote:
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera fitted")
I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in algae as to be
unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a human
driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start sign is the
only indication you get of the speed limit is a 20mph zone, which must
use traffic calming to keep speeds down.

....
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Alex
The best ones allow you to specify the distance to the car
in front of you that it cruises at.
but
Does it take account of how slippery the road is?
One reason I don't use mine in the UK is that, even on minimum distance,
you are so far back that other British drivers see the huge space you
have left as an invitation to pull into the lane ahead of you. I rarely
get that abroad.
--
Colin Bignell
Roland Perry
2021-09-08 05:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by nightjar
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera fitted")
I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in algae as to be
unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a human
driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start sign is the
only indication you get of the speed limit is a 20mph zone, which must
use traffic calming to keep speeds down.
....
I know that's often said, but it's not really true. The indications that
a stretch of road is "built-up" for the purposes of NSL, are sometimes a
bit scanty. There was one I was familiar with on the approach to Oxford
where the 40-30 transition was in open countryside about half a mile
from the nearest house or lamp-post (and even then if the lamp-posts are
a foot too far apart, they don't have the required effect).
Post by nightjar
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Alex
The best ones allow you to specify the distance to the car
in front of you that it cruises at.
but
Does it take account of how slippery the road is?
One reason I don't use mine in the UK is that, even on minimum
distance, you are so far back that other British drivers see the huge
space you have left as an invitation to pull into the lane ahead of
you. I rarely get that abroad.
Yes, it's a big problem. Not helped by commercial vehicle drivers who
have the etiquette of flashing a colleague the moment they aren't
overlapping, so they can pull in. Many such drivers do it anyway,
even if not flashed at. And I think car drivers then copy this.
--
Roland Perry
nightjar
2021-09-08 08:33:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera fitted")
I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in algae as to be
unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a human
driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start sign is the
only indication you get of the speed limit is a 20mph zone, which must
use traffic calming to keep speeds down.
....
I know that's often said, but it's not really true. The indications that
a stretch of road is "built-up" for the purposes of NSL, are sometimes a
bit scanty. There was one I was familiar with on the approach to Oxford
where the 40-30 transition was in open countryside about half a mile
from the nearest house or lamp-post (and even then if the lamp-posts are
a foot too far apart, they don't have the required effect)....
In which case, the 30mph limit between the start of limit sign and the
'system of street lights' would require repeater signs to be
enforceable. That is not to say that local authorities don't make
mistakes, otherwise there wouldn't be successful legal challenges.
--
Colin Bignell
Roland Perry
2021-09-08 10:49:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by nightjar
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera
fitted") I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in algae
as to be unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a human
driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start sign is the
only indication you get of the speed limit is a 20mph zone, which
must use traffic calming to keep speeds down.
....
I know that's often said, but it's not really true. The indications
that a stretch of road is "built-up" for the purposes of NSL, are
sometimes a bit scanty. There was one I was familiar with on the
approach to Oxford where the 40-30 transition was in open countryside
about half a mile from the nearest house or lamp-post (and even then
if the lamp-posts are a foot too far apart, they don't have the
required effect)....
In which case, the 30mph limit between the start of limit sign and the
'system of street lights' would require repeater signs to be
enforceable.
This was before 30-repeaters were considered acceptable. And perhaps
"systems of street lights" need identifying in some way (perhaps a
coloured band) so the driver knows if they are close enough together
(and longer than whatever the required distance is to count) or not.
Post by nightjar
That is not to say that local authorities don't make mistakes,
otherwise there wouldn't be successful legal challenges.
--
Roland Perry
nightjar
2021-09-08 13:10:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera
fitted")  I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in
algae as to be  unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a human
driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start sign is the
only indication you get of the speed limit is a 20mph zone, which
must  use traffic calming to keep speeds down.
....
 I know that's often said, but it's not really true. The indications
that  a stretch of road is "built-up" for the purposes of NSL, are
sometimes a  bit scanty. There was one I was familiar with on the
approach to Oxford  where the 40-30 transition was in open
countryside about half a mile  from the nearest house or lamp-post
(and even then if the lamp-posts are  a foot too far apart, they
don't have the required effect)....
In which case, the 30mph limit between the start of limit sign and the
'system of street lights' would require repeater signs to be enforceable.
This was before 30-repeaters were considered acceptable.
So, probably not likely to affect the ability of a modern vehicle
computer to look for repeaters.
Post by Roland Perry
And perhaps
"systems of street lights" need identifying in some way (perhaps a
coloured band) so the driver knows if they are close enough together
(and longer than whatever the required distance is to count) or not.
There is a way to identify that. If there are three or more street
lights together and they *don't* have a repeater sign for any limit
(including 30mph), then they are a system of street lights spaced not
more than 183m (200 yards) apart.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
That is not to say that local authorities don't make mistakes,
otherwise there wouldn't be successful legal challenges.
--
Colin Bignell
Roland Perry
2021-09-08 13:44:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by nightjar
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera
fitted")  I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in
algae as to be  unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a
human driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start
sign is the only indication you get of the speed limit is a 20mph
zone, which must  use traffic calming to keep speeds down.
....
 I know that's often said, but it's not really true. The
indications that  a stretch of road is "built-up" for the purposes
of NSL, are sometimes a  bit scanty. There was one I was familiar
with on the approach to Oxford  where the 40-30 transition was in
open countryside about half a mile  from the nearest house or
lamp-post (and even then if the lamp-posts are  a foot too far
apart, they don't have the required effect)....
In which case, the 30mph limit between the start of limit sign and
the 'system of street lights' would require repeater signs to be
enforceable.
This was before 30-repeaters were considered acceptable.
So, probably not likely to affect the ability of a modern vehicle
computer to look for repeaters.
Nevertheless, 30mph repeaters outside of heavily traffic calmed urban
centres are still rare.
Post by nightjar
Post by Roland Perry
And perhaps "systems of street lights" need identifying in some way
(perhaps a coloured band) so the driver knows if they are close
enough together (and longer than whatever the required distance is to
count) or not.
There is a way to identify that. If there are three or more street
lights together and they *don't* have a repeater sign for any limit
(including 30mph), then they are a system of street lights spaced not
more than 183m (200 yards) apart.
What if the second and third are round a bend you (and/or your limiter's
camera) haven't got to yet?

ps. This isn't quibble I just invented, it's been a matter of concern to
me for at least 20yrs.
--
Roland Perry
Robin
2021-09-08 14:03:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera
fitted")  I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in
algae as to be  unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a
human  driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start
sign is the  only indication you get of the speed limit is a 20mph
zone, which  must  use traffic calming to keep speeds down.
....
 I know that's often said, but it's not really true. The
indications  that  a stretch of road is "built-up" for the purposes
of NSL, are  sometimes a  bit scanty. There was one I was familiar
with on the  approach to Oxford  where the 40-30 transition was in
open  countryside about half a mile  from the nearest house or
lamp-post  (and even then if the lamp-posts are  a foot too far
apart, they  don't have the required effect)....
In which case, the 30mph limit between the start of limit sign and
the  'system of street lights' would require repeater signs to be
enforceable.
 This was before 30-repeaters were considered acceptable.
So, probably not likely to affect the ability of a modern vehicle
computer to look for repeaters.
Nevertheless, 30mph repeaters outside of heavily traffic calmed urban
centres are still rare.
I'm surprised there are any /inside/ heavily traffic calmed urban
centres given AFAIK they are still forbidden where there is a system of
carriageway lighting by Sch 10 TSRGD 2016.
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Roland Perry
2021-09-08 14:18:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera
fitted")  I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in
algae as to be  unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a
human  driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start
sign is the  only indication you get of the speed limit is a
20mph zone, which  must  use traffic calming to keep speeds down.
....
 I know that's often said, but it's not really true. The
indications  that  a stretch of road is "built-up" for the
purposes of NSL, are  sometimes a  bit scanty. There was one I
was familiar with on the  approach to Oxford  where the 40-30
transition was in open  countryside about half a mile  from the
nearest house or lamp-post  (and even then if the lamp-posts are 
a foot too far apart, they  don't have the required effect)....
In which case, the 30mph limit between the start of limit sign and
the  'system of street lights' would require repeater signs to be
enforceable.
 This was before 30-repeaters were considered acceptable.
So, probably not likely to affect the ability of a modern vehicle
computer to look for repeaters.
Nevertheless, 30mph repeaters outside of heavily traffic calmed
urban centres are still rare.
I'm surprised there are any /inside/ heavily traffic calmed urban
centres given AFAIK they are still forbidden where there is a system of
carriageway lighting by Sch 10 TSRGD 2016.
Where *are* they allowed?
--
Roland Perry
nightjar
2021-09-08 15:10:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Robin
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera
fitted")  I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in
algae as to be  unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a
human  driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start
sign is the  only indication you get of the speed limit is a
20mph  zone, which  must  use traffic calming to keep speeds down.
....
 I know that's often said, but it's not really true. The
indications  that  a stretch of road is "built-up" for the
purposes  of NSL, are  sometimes a  bit scanty. There was one I
was familiar  with on the  approach to Oxford  where the 40-30
transition was in  open  countryside about half a mile  from the
nearest house or  lamp-post  (and even then if the lamp-posts are
a foot too far  apart, they  don't have the required effect)....
In which case, the 30mph limit between the start of limit sign and
the  'system of street lights' would require repeater signs to be
enforceable.
 This was before 30-repeaters were considered acceptable.
So, probably not likely to affect the ability of a modern vehicle
computer to look for repeaters.
 Nevertheless, 30mph repeaters outside of heavily traffic calmed
urban  centres are still rare.
I'm surprised there are any /inside/ heavily traffic calmed urban
centres given AFAIK they are still forbidden where there is a system
of carriageway lighting by Sch 10 TSRGD 2016.
Where *are* they allowed?
Where there is no street lighting or the street lights do not comply
with the requirements for imposing a 30mph limit; either because there
are not at least three lights or because the lights are more than 200
yards apart.
--
Colin Bignell
nightjar
2021-09-08 15:08:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera
fitted")  I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in
algae as to be  unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a
human  driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start
sign is the  only indication you get of the speed limit is a 20mph
zone, which  must  use traffic calming to keep speeds down.
....
 I know that's often said, but it's not really true. The
indications  that  a stretch of road is "built-up" for the purposes
of NSL, are  sometimes a  bit scanty. There was one I was familiar
with on the  approach to Oxford  where the 40-30 transition was in
open  countryside about half a mile  from the nearest house or
lamp-post  (and even then if the lamp-posts are  a foot too far
apart, they  don't have the required effect)....
In which case, the 30mph limit between the start of limit sign and
the  'system of street lights' would require repeater signs to be
enforceable.
 This was before 30-repeaters were considered acceptable.
So, probably not likely to affect the ability of a modern vehicle
computer to look for repeaters.
Nevertheless, 30mph repeaters outside of heavily traffic calmed urban
centres are still rare.
There are plenty of unlit villages around here that have them.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
And perhaps  "systems of street lights" need identifying in some way
(perhaps a  coloured band) so the driver knows if they are close
enough together  (and longer than whatever the required distance is
to count) or not.
There is a way to identify that. If there are three or more street
lights together and they *don't* have a repeater sign for any limit
(including 30mph), then they are a system of street lights spaced not
more than 183m (200 yards) apart.
What if the second and third are round a bend you (and/or your limiter's
camera) haven't got to yet?
I would expect the software to assume that any street lighting meant a
30mph limit, until it found something that told it otherwise. It would
be programmed to fail safe.
Post by Roland Perry
ps. This isn't quibble I just invented, it's been a matter of concern to
    me for at least 20yrs.
--
Colin Bignell
Roland Perry
2021-09-08 15:21:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by nightjar
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera
fitted")  I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in
algae as to be  unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a
human  driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start
sign is the  only indication you get of the speed limit is a
20mph zone, which  must  use traffic calming to keep speeds down.
....
 I know that's often said, but it's not really true. The
indications  that  a stretch of road is "built-up" for the
purposes of NSL, are  sometimes a  bit scanty. There was one I
was familiar with on the  approach to Oxford  where the 40-30
transition was in open  countryside about half a mile  from the
nearest house or lamp-post  (and even then if the lamp-posts are 
a foot too far apart, they  don't have the required effect)....
In which case, the 30mph limit between the start of limit sign and
the  'system of street lights' would require repeater signs to be
enforceable.
 This was before 30-repeaters were considered acceptable.
So, probably not likely to affect the ability of a modern vehicle
computer to look for repeaters.
Nevertheless, 30mph repeaters outside of heavily traffic calmed
urban centres are still rare.
There are plenty of unlit villages around here that have them.
If the village is unlit, what are they "repeating"? If it's a full size
signon the edge of the village, then that's what eyeballs and cameras
should be looking for.
Post by nightjar
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
And perhaps  "systems of street lights" need identifying in some
way (perhaps a  coloured band) so the driver knows if they are
close enough together  (and longer than whatever the required
distance is to count) or not.
There is a way to identify that. If there are three or more street
lights together and they *don't* have a repeater sign for any limit
(including 30mph), then they are a system of street lights spaced not
more than 183m (200 yards) apart.
What if the second and third are round a bend you (and/or your
limiter's camera) haven't got to yet?
I would expect the software to assume that any street lighting meant a
30mph limit, until it found something that told it otherwise. It would
be programmed to fail safe.
Assuming it's daylight, how do they tell? Some rural street lighting is
an inconspicuous lamp mounted halfway up an overhead-240v-distribution
pole, or even a telegraph pole.
--
Roland Perry
nightjar
2021-09-08 15:43:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera
fitted")  I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in
algae as to be  unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a
human  driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start
sign is the  only indication you get of the speed limit is a
20mph  zone, which  must  use traffic calming to keep speeds down.
....
 I know that's often said, but it's not really true. The
indications  that  a stretch of road is "built-up" for the
purposes  of NSL, are  sometimes a  bit scanty. There was one I
was familiar  with on the  approach to Oxford  where the 40-30
transition was in  open  countryside about half a mile  from the
nearest house or  lamp-post  (and even then if the lamp-posts are
a foot too far  apart, they  don't have the required effect)....
In which case, the 30mph limit between the start of limit sign and
the  'system of street lights' would require repeater signs to be
enforceable.
 This was before 30-repeaters were considered acceptable.
So, probably not likely to affect the ability of a modern vehicle
computer to look for repeaters.
 Nevertheless, 30mph repeaters outside of heavily traffic calmed
urban  centres are still rare.
There are plenty of unlit villages around here that have them.
If the village is unlit, what are they "repeating"? If it's a full size
signon the edge of the village, then that's what eyeballs and cameras
should be looking for.
As you pointed out, those signs may be obscured or missing. I can think
of two start of limit signs locally that have not been replaced,
although they were both knocked over several weeks ago. In one of those
cases, the surviving sign is obscured by a tall hedge until the very
last minute. Drivers are likely to miss it, but I would hope a camera
would not.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
And perhaps  "systems of street lights" need identifying in some
way  (perhaps a  coloured band) so the driver knows if they are
close  enough together  (and longer than whatever the required
distance is  to count) or not.
There is a way to identify that. If there are three or more street
lights together and they *don't* have a repeater sign for any limit
(including 30mph), then they are a system of street lights spaced
not more than 183m (200 yards) apart.
 What if the second and third are round a bend you (and/or your
limiter's  camera) haven't got to yet?
I would expect the software to assume that any street lighting meant a
30mph limit, until it found something that told it otherwise. It would
be programmed to fail safe.
Assuming it's daylight, how do they tell? Some rural street lighting is
an inconspicuous lamp mounted halfway up an overhead-240v-distribution
pole, or even a telegraph pole.
I would expect the software to look for the lighting heads, which are
quite distinctive even during the day. The lighting head won't be on a
telegraph pole. They are thinner than electricity poles and don't meet
the required standard to carry mains electricity. (I used to work for an
Electricity Board). They may not even be on a pole of any sort. In many
High Streets they are mounted on buildings, to keep pavements clear of
unnecessary obstructions.
--
Colin Bignell
Andy Burns
2021-09-08 19:19:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
If the village is unlit, what are they "repeating"?
What if the council has permanently turned off the streetlamps (and the
rust hasn't quite got to them yet)?
nightjar
2021-09-08 20:22:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by Roland Perry
If the village is unlit, what are they "repeating"?
What if the council has permanently turned off the streetlamps (and the
rust hasn't quite got to them yet)?
As I read the regulations, the lights do not need to be working for the
limit to apply. Otherwise, a single failed lamp could be a defence
against prosecution.
--
Colin Bignell
Andy Burns
2021-09-08 19:17:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by nightjar
I would expect the software to assume that any street lighting meant a
30mph limit, until it found something that told it otherwise.
I've heard of cars using GPS and a database to lookup speed limit, also
heard of cars reading signs with a camera, but that's the first time
I've heard anyone suggest it can interpret lamp posts, do other
countries even have similar rules?
nightjar
2021-09-08 20:20:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Burns
Post by nightjar
I would expect the software to assume that any street lighting meant a
30mph limit, until it found something that told it otherwise.
I've heard of cars using GPS and a database to lookup speed limit, also
heard of cars reading signs with a camera, but that's the first time
I've heard anyone suggest it can interpret lamp posts, do other
countries even have similar rules?
The rules vary by country, so I would expect the software would have to
allow for the differences, for example, knowing that a white French town
sign means a 50kph limit, while a blue village one does not.
--
Colin Bignell
Steve Walker
2021-09-08 16:03:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by nightjar
...
Post by Roland Perry
How does it know (and before you say "forward facing camera
fitted")  I'll raise you "sign in a hedge", and "so covered in
algae as to be  unreadable".
Which would provide a defence against a speeding charge for a human
driver. In any case, the only case where the limit start sign is the
only indication you get of the speed limit is a 20mph zone, which
must  use traffic calming to keep speeds down.
....
 I know that's often said, but it's not really true. The indications
that  a stretch of road is "built-up" for the purposes of NSL, are
sometimes a  bit scanty. There was one I was familiar with on the
approach to Oxford  where the 40-30 transition was in open
countryside about half a mile  from the nearest house or lamp-post
(and even then if the lamp-posts are  a foot too far apart, they
don't have the required effect)....
In which case, the 30mph limit between the start of limit sign and the
'system of street lights' would require repeater signs to be enforceable.
This was before 30-repeaters were considered acceptable. And perhaps
"systems of street lights" need identifying in some way (perhaps a
coloured band) so the driver knows if they are close enough together
(and longer than whatever the required distance is to count) or not.
I know of at least one village that has a 30 limit and has only a single
lamp-post - so who can tell if it is close enough together?!
Roland Perry
2021-09-08 05:49:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Then of course there are those "not-terribly-smart" motorways. Last
week I drove on one, and the limit went from NSL, to 50 [empty road]
to 60 [still an empty road], to NSL [ie "off"] to 50 again [merging
with other traffic] in less than a quarter of a mile.
Using the camera.
I wonder what distance away they work at (or really, how close do they
still work). At least one of the signs on my trip above changed as I was
about a car-length away.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
My car has a cruise control (which I never use, for much the same
reason, being able to "cruise" is an almost unobtainable luxury),
The best ones allow you to specify the distance to the car in front
of you that it cruises at. but
Does it take account of how slippery the road is?
That's the driver's responsibility, just like when not using the cruise
control.
OK, so you need to re-set it when the road conditions change. Rather
than just driving differently. I don't suppose they react to plain
"Slow" signs, rather than ones with a numerical limit?
--
Roland Perry
Alex
2021-09-08 06:16:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Then of course there are those "not-terribly-smart" motorways. Last
week I drove on one, and the limit went from NSL, to 50 [empty road]
to 60 [still an empty road], to NSL [ie "off"] to 50 again [merging
with other traffic] in less than a quarter of a mile.
Using the camera.
I wonder what distance away they work at (or really, how close do they
still work). At least one of the signs on my trip above changed as I was
about a car-length away.
It would have seen the change, like you did.
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
My car has a cruise control (which I never use, for much the same
reason, being able to "cruise" is an almost unobtainable luxury),
The best ones allow you to specify the distance to the car in front
of you that it cruises at. but
Does it take account of how slippery the road is?
That's the driver's responsibility, just like when not using the cruise
control.
OK, so you need to re-set it when the road conditions change.
Not if you set it to what is safe in all road conditions.

Rather
Post by Roland Perry
than just driving differently. I don't suppose they react to plain
"Slow" signs, rather than ones with a numerical limit?
Peeler
2021-09-08 08:46:36 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 8 Sep 2021 16:16:21 +1000, Alex, better known as cantankerous
trolling senile geezer Rodent Speed, wrote:

<FLUSH the abnormal trolling senile cretin's latest trollshit unread>
--
John addressing the senile Australian pest:
"You are a complete idiot. But you make me larf. LOL"
MID: <f9056fe6-1479-40ff-8cc0-***@googlegroups.com>
Roland Perry
2021-09-08 10:23:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alex
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Then of course there are those "not-terribly-smart" motorways. Last
week I drove on one, and the limit went from NSL, to 50 [empty
road] to 60 [still an empty road], to NSL [ie "off"] to 50 again
[merging with other traffic] in less than a quarter of a mile.
Using the camera.
I wonder what distance away they work at (or really, how close do
they still work). At least one of the signs on my trip above changed
as I was about a car-length away.
It would have seen the change, like you did.
Ultra-wide-angle lens then, I'm sure it was too high up for my dashcam
to have picked up.

Speaking of which, those signs often have a significant strobing effect
when picked up on a digital cctv camera.
--
Roland Perry
Paul
2021-09-08 12:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Alex
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Then of course there are those "not-terribly-smart" motorways. Last
week I drove on one, and the limit went from NSL, to 50 [empty
road] to 60 [still an empty road], to NSL [ie "off"] to 50 again
[merging with other traffic] in less than a quarter of a mile.
Using the camera.
I wonder what distance away they work at (or really, how close do
they still work). At least one of the signs on my trip above changed
as I was about a car-length away.
It would have seen the change, like you did.
Ultra-wide-angle lens then, I'm sure it was too high up for my dashcam
to have picked up.
Speaking of which, those signs often have a significant strobing effect
when picked up on a digital cctv camera.
There are two kinds of CMOS setups on webcams.

Rolling shutter (most common, strobes) and global shutter
(doesn't have strobe effect). It's just how the sensor works,
not some mechanical contrivance.

There are some still pictures here, of particular distortion
effects that happen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_shutter

A video from 2013, comparing the two types of CMOS sensors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nguv9lOkmXI

CCD sensors tend to be global, because of the readout mechanism.
Samples are read out, as if the pixels were arranged in shift
registers. The pixel values are "frozen", until the readout
operation (shifting) completes. Judging by a quick Google, CCDs
haven't entirely disappeared. They run a bit warm perhaps.
(They shift "buckets of charge", an analog quantity, and an ADC converter
is needed at the end of the shift, to make digital values.)

Paul
Roland Perry
2021-09-08 13:40:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Alex
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Then of course there are those "not-terribly-smart" motorways.
Last week I drove on one, and the limit went from NSL, to 50
[empty road] to 60 [still an empty road], to NSL [ie "off"] to
50 again [merging with other traffic] in less than a quarter of a mile.
Using the camera.
I wonder what distance away they work at (or really, how close do
they still work). At least one of the signs on my trip above
changed as I was about a car-length away.
It would have seen the change, like you did.
Ultra-wide-angle lens then, I'm sure it was too high up for my
dashcam to have picked up.
Speaking of which, those signs often have a significant strobing
effect when picked up on a digital cctv camera.
There are two kinds of CMOS setups on webcams.
Rolling shutter (most common, strobes) and global shutter
(doesn't have strobe effect). It's just how the sensor works,
not some mechanical contrivance.
There are some still pictures here, of particular distortion
effects that happen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_shutter
A video from 2013, comparing the two types of CMOS sensors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nguv9lOkmXI
CCD sensors tend to be global, because of the readout mechanism.
Samples are read out, as if the pixels were arranged in shift
registers. The pixel values are "frozen", until the readout
operation (shifting) completes. Judging by a quick Google, CCDs
haven't entirely disappeared. They run a bit warm perhaps.
(They shift "buckets of charge", an analog quantity, and an ADC converter
is needed at the end of the shift, to make digital values.)
The question is - which sort are in these speed-sign reading cameras
(and where are they mounted - inside the windscreen is no use if it's
raining/snowing heavily).
--
Roland Perry
Steve Walker
2021-09-08 07:45:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Then of course there are those "not-terribly-smart" motorways. Last
week I  drove on one, and the limit went from NSL, to 50 [empty road]
to 60 [still  an empty road], to NSL [ie "off"] to 50 again [merging
with other traffic]  in less than a quarter of a mile.
Using the camera.
I wonder what distance away they work at (or really, how close do they
still work). At least one of the signs on my trip above changed as I was
about a car-length away.
Does it matter? When the speed signs change down, the following cameras
change after a time delay, so no-one coming into a section having looked
at the speed limit, but then missing the sign changing, gets caught by them.
Roland Perry
2021-09-08 10:25:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Roland Perry
Then of course there are those "not-terribly-smart" motorways. Last
week I  drove on one, and the limit went from NSL, to 50 [empty
road] to 60 [still  an empty road], to NSL [ie "off"] to 50 again
[merging with other traffic]  in less than a quarter of a mile.
Using the camera.
I wonder what distance away they work at (or really, how close do
they still work). At least one of the signs on my trip above changed
as I was about a car-length away.
Does it matter? When the speed signs change down, the following cameras
change after a time delay, so no-one coming into a section having
looked at the speed limit, but then missing the sign changing, gets
caught by them.
But if the sign has just changed *up* (or gone off) after the camera
clocked it from 50ft away, you'll be speed-limited when you don't need
to be.
--
Roland Perry
Steve Walker
2021-09-08 16:01:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Roland Perry
Then of course there are those "not-terribly-smart" motorways. Last
week I  drove on one, and the limit went from NSL, to 50 [empty
road]  to 60 [still  an empty road], to NSL [ie "off"] to 50 again
[merging  with other traffic]  in less than a quarter of a mile.
Using the camera.
 I wonder what distance away they work at (or really, how close do
they  still work). At least one of the signs on my trip above changed
as I was  about a car-length away.
Does it matter? When the speed signs change down, the following
cameras change after a time delay, so no-one coming into a section
having looked at the speed limit, but then missing the sign changing,
gets caught by them.
But if the sign has just changed *up* (or gone off) after the camera
clocked it from 50ft away, you'll be speed-limited when you don't need
to be.
And if you have seen it, you can override the limiter just by
accelerating hard for a moment.
Bob Eager
2021-09-08 18:21:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Roland Perry
Then of course there are those "not-terribly-smart" motorways. Last
week I  drove on one, and the limit went from NSL, to 50 [empty
road]  to 60 [still  an empty road], to NSL [ie "off"] to 50 again
[merging  with other traffic]  in less than a quarter of a mile.
Using the camera.
 I wonder what distance away they work at (or really, how close do
they  still work). At least one of the signs on my trip above changed
as I was  about a car-length away.
Does it matter? When the speed signs change down, the following
cameras change after a time delay, so no-one coming into a section
having looked at the speed limit, but then missing the sign changing,
gets caught by them.
But if the sign has just changed *up* (or gone off) after the camera
clocked it from 50ft away, you'll be speed-limited when you don't need
to be.
And if you have seen it, you can override the limiter just by
accelerating hard for a moment.
I don't know what Roland's agenda is, but he seems determined to pick
holes in this kind of technology. No one is saying it's perfect, and
indeed its users are advised of such. But it's useful all the same.
--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
Tim+
2021-09-08 19:03:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Eager
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Steve Walker
Post by Roland Perry
Then of course there are those "not-terribly-smart" motorways. Last
week I  drove on one, and the limit went from NSL, to 50 [empty
road]  to 60 [still  an empty road], to NSL [ie "off"] to 50 again
[merging  with other traffic]  in less than a quarter of a mile.
Using the camera.
 I wonder what distance away they work at (or really, how close do
they  still work). At least one of the signs on my trip above changed
as I was  about a car-length away.
Does it matter? When the speed signs change down, the following
cameras change after a time delay, so no-one coming into a section
having looked at the speed limit, but then missing the sign changing,
gets caught by them.
But if the sign has just changed *up* (or gone off) after the camera
clocked it from 50ft away, you'll be speed-limited when you don't need
to be.
And if you have seen it, you can override the limiter just by
accelerating hard for a moment.
I don't know what Roland's agenda is, but he seems determined to pick
holes in this kind of technology. No one is saying it's perfect, and
indeed its users are advised of such. But it's useful all the same.
Yes, he seems to be talking about the tech as if it’s full autopilot
technology rather than a driver aid.

At the end of the day, it’s still the driver in control of it all.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
nightjar
2021-09-06 06:42:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less
thing I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden
if I use kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to
overtake works just as well.
If these aftermarket limiters are set to 70mph, it's of little use for
me, as there are very few 70mph roads that I use other than for one-off
long distance trips.
These days, cars read the speed limit signs, although that is a bit
later tech than I have.
Post by Roland Perry
My car has a cruise control (which I never use, for much the same
reason, being able to "cruise" is an almost unobtainable luxury), but
not a limiter.
My speed limiter is part of the cruise control system. When in cruise
control mode, it uses radar to reduce the speed if you are catching
vehicles up. It returns to the set cruise speed if you pull out around them.
--
Colin Bignell
Chris J Dixon
2021-09-06 07:44:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by nightjar
My speed limiter is part of the cruise control system. When in cruise
control mode, it uses radar to reduce the speed if you are catching
vehicles up. It returns to the set cruise speed if you pull out around them.
How hard does it slam on the anchors if someone cuts in sharply?

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.
nightjar
2021-09-06 13:20:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chris J Dixon
Post by nightjar
My speed limiter is part of the cruise control system. When in cruise
control mode, it uses radar to reduce the speed if you are catching
vehicles up. It returns to the set cruise speed if you pull out around them.
How hard does it slam on the anchors if someone cuts in sharply?
IIRC, the maximum braking effort is 45%. It is not intended to replace
driver action, merely to start braking before the driver can react, thus
reducing stopping distance. Automatic braking also kicks in if you
sharply lift your foot off the accelerator pedal.
--
Colin Bignell
Bob Eager
2021-09-06 08:41:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by nightjar
I have been using a programmable speed limiter on my cars since the
start of the century. I have found it a boon, as there is one less thing
I need to look away from the road for. Mine will be over-ridden if I use
kick down, but I find looking well ahead and planning when to overtake
works just as well.
If these aftermarket limiters are set to 70mph, it's of little use for
me,
as there are very few 70mph roads that I use other than for one-off long
distance trips.
That bit about retrofit was inaccurate. I haven't come across aftermarket
limiters.

My factory fitted one isn't set to one speed. It reads the speed limit
signs and sets it appropriately.
--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-05 10:25:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I can't see how it can be retrofitted and IIRC no car legislation has
ever been made retrospective.
--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp
tim...
2021-09-05 10:29:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I can't see how it can be retrofitted and IIRC no car legislation has
ever been made retrospective.
That's a retrospect provision imposed on the manufacturer

The rule initially applies only to new *models*

from 2024 it will apply to all new cars
The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-05 16:17:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz effective from 6 July 2022, and retro
fitted to all cars by 2024. Initially they will have an override or
on/off switch, but later on this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I can't see how it can be retrofitted and IIRC no car legislation has
ever been made retrospective.
I had to fit a foglight to a car once when it was mandatory for the MOT
and the dealer sold a model with a late registration. No foglight. No MOT.
But not for very old cars.

I recall fitting a squishy bulb windscreen washer, too.
--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14
Tim+
2021-09-05 17:23:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz effective from 6 July 2022, and retro
fitted to all cars by 2024. Initially they will have an override or
on/off switch, but later on this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I can't see how it can be retrofitted and IIRC no car legislation has
ever been made retrospective.
I had to fit a foglight to a car once when it was mandatory for the MOT
and the dealer sold a model with a late registration. No foglight. No MOT.
But not for very old cars.
I recall fitting a squishy bulb windscreen washer, too.
Tell kids today that you used to be able to buy screen washer kits to
upgrade your car and they won’t believe you… ;-)

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
newshound
2021-09-05 20:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz effective from 6 July 2022, and retro
fitted to all cars by 2024. Initially they will have an override or
on/off switch, but later on this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I can't see how it can be retrofitted and IIRC no car legislation has
ever been made retrospective.
I had to fit a foglight to a car once when it was mandatory for the MOT
and the dealer sold a model with a late registration. No foglight. No MOT.
But not for very old cars.
I recall fitting a squishy bulb windscreen washer, too.
Tell kids today that you used to be able to buy screen washer kits to
upgrade your car and they won’t believe you… ;-)
Tim
Or that the heater was an optional extra on the original Mini
NY
2021-09-05 20:36:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
Post by Tim+
Post by The Natural Philosopher
Post by The Natural Philosopher
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz effective from 6 July 2022, and retro
fitted to all cars by 2024. Initially they will have an override or
on/off switch, but later on this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I can't see how it can be retrofitted and IIRC no car legislation has
ever been made retrospective.
I had to fit a foglight to a car once when it was mandatory for the MOT
and the dealer sold a model with a late registration. No foglight. No MOT.
But not for very old cars.
I recall fitting a squishy bulb windscreen washer, too.
Tell kids today that you used to be able to buy screen washer kits to
upgrade your car and they won’t believe you… ;-)
Or that the heater was an optional extra on the original Mini
My mum's 1960-registered Morris Minor had a heater when she bought it
second-hand in 1967. But I'm not sure whether it was fitted as standard, or
was an optional extra - or was something that was fitted later - like the
flashing indicators that replaced the trafficators (semaphore arms with
orange bulbs). I remember the trafficators still worked for a few years in
conjunction with the flashing indicators, until first one arm and then the
other jammed, burnt out the solenoid and stopped working.

Some cars had windscreen wipers which slowed down and stopped as you went up
(or was it down) a hill, because they were driven off the vacuum in the
inlet manifold.

I bet a lot of young drivers would be horrified to learn that you had to
wind the windows down with a handle, rather than electric motor, or that you
had to repeatedly pump a rubber bulb or knob on the dashboard to wash the
windscreen. I hadn't realised that windscreen washers (rubber bulb type)
were actually optional on some cars.

Or that a lot of cars until the late 60s / early 70s didn't have synchromesh
on first gear (and maybe second). Or that some cars had a slot in the front
bumper to fit a bayonet end on the wheelbrace to turn the engine over if the
battery was (almost) flat. I presume no cars with transverse engines ever
had starting handles because the end of the crankshaft would be behind one
of the wheels!


Going back to rear foglights, what is the rule about having one or two
lights? A lot of cars nowadays only have one light on the offside. Some of
my earlier cars (2x VW Golf, 2x Peugeot 306) had red "glass" and an empty
space for a bulb on the nearside, but no bulb was fitted (so I fitted one).
On my latest car (Peugeot 308), the clusters include only a reversing light
on the nearside and only a foglight on the offside. Trying to reverse with
only one light is difficult, so I put my foglight on as well to light up the
offside so I can see the walls/hedges/gateposts on *both* sides of the car
at night.

Is the single foglight just penny-pinching, or do some countries actually
have rules which say that you must *not* have two rear foglights? And if so,
why, given that foglights serve the same purpose in fog as tail lights do in
non-fog: as well as showing that your car is there, they allow cars behind
you to see the width of your car to judge how far away they are from you.
Tim Streater
2021-09-05 20:53:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by NY
Some cars had windscreen wipers which slowed down and stopped as you went up
(or was it down) a hill, because they were driven off the vacuum in the
inlet manifold.
I bet a lot of young drivers would be horrified to learn that you had to
wind the windows down with a handle, rather than electric motor, or that you
had to repeatedly pump a rubber bulb or knob on the dashboard to wash the
windscreen. I hadn't realised that windscreen washers (rubber bulb type)
were actually optional on some cars.
We had a 1954 Zephyr Zodiac which had wipers as you describe. But it also had
electrically operated screen washer - button on the steering column.
--
"Once you adopt the unix paradigm, the variants cease to be a problem - you bitch, of course, but that's because bitching is fun, unlike M$ OS's, where bitching is required to keep your head from exploding." - S Stremler in afc
Ian Jackson
2021-09-05 21:44:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Streater
Post by NY
Some cars had windscreen wipers which slowed down and stopped as you went up
(or was it down) a hill, because they were driven off the vacuum in the
inlet manifold.
I bet a lot of young drivers would be horrified to learn that you had to
wind the windows down with a handle, rather than electric motor, or that you
had to repeatedly pump a rubber bulb or knob on the dashboard to wash the
windscreen. I hadn't realised that windscreen washers (rubber bulb type)
were actually optional on some cars.
We had a 1954 Zephyr Zodiac which had wipers as you describe. But it also had
electrically operated screen washer - button on the steering column.
My 1954 Ford Prefect had vacuum wipers. They slowed and stopped when
going up hill - but then I found there was a knack to prevent them
stopping altogether. No washers though. It also had semaphore
'trafficators'. These tended to stick, and did need bit of regular
cleaning and lubrication to ensure a consistent snap action. Originally
the headlights had two full beams, but on dip there was a dipped beam
only on the nearside, while the offside suicidal showed only its dim
internal 6 watt sidelight. This was not a fault. [I soon rectified this
suicidal 'feature'.] The heater was an add-on unit, tapped into the
engine's flexible rubber hoses and mounted in front of the front
passenger's knees. The gears were 3-speed and reverse. There was no
synchromesh on first, but I soon learned to double-declutch (something
that I still perform) and reverse. And it had a starting handle.
--
Ian
Spike
2021-09-06 08:25:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
My 1954 Ford Prefect had vacuum wipers.
It also had semaphore 'trafficators'.
Originally the headlights had two full beams,
but on dip there was a dipped beam only on the nearside.
The heater was an add-on unit, tapped into the
engine's flexible rubber hoses.
The gears were 3-speed and reverse.
There was no synchromesh on first.> And it had a starting handle.
My dad had to fit twin rear lights to his 1939 Ford Anglia to replace
the single central rear one.

The ignition key coding was MRN21, the boot was accessed via the rear
seat, and there was a pull-down luggage grid over the spare wheel.
--
Spike
The Natural Philosopher
2021-09-06 07:35:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by newshound
Post by Tim+
Post by The Natural Philosopher
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz effective from 6 July 2022, and retro
fitted to all cars by 2024. Initially they will have an override or
on/off switch, but later on this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I can't see how it can be retrofitted  and IIRC no car legislation has
ever been made retrospective.
I had to fit a foglight to a car once when it was mandatory for the MOT
and the dealer sold a model with a late registration. No foglight. No MOT.
But not for very old cars.
I recall fitting a squishy bulb windscreen washer, too.
Tell kids today that you used to be able to buy screen washer kits to
upgrade your car and they won’t believe you… ;-)
Tim
Or that the heater was an optional extra on the original Mini
I used to remove the engine cover in my CA2 for heating
--
Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.
Bob Eager
2021-09-05 22:20:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Tell kids today that you used to be able to buy screen washer kits to
upgrade your car and they won’t believe you… ;-)
And foglights.

And parking lights.

And reversing lights.
--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
fred
2021-09-06 10:58:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim+
Post by The Natural Philosopher
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz effective from 6 July 2022, and retro
fitted to all cars by 2024. Initially they will have an override or
on/off switch, but later on this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
I can't see how it can be retrofitted and IIRC no car legislation has
ever been made retrospective.
I had to fit a foglight to a car once when it was mandatory for the MOT
and the dealer sold a model with a late registration. No foglight. No MOT.
But not for very old cars.
I recall fitting a squishy bulb windscreen washer, too.
Tell kids today that you used to be able to buy screen washer kits to
upgrade your car and they won’t believe you… ;-)
Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
screen washer kits ? A heater was once a £15 extra on a Mini
Chris J Dixon
2021-09-06 12:20:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by fred
screen washer kits ? A heater was once a £15 extra on a Mini
And we all had to buy those horrid plastic double glazing sheets
to stick on the rear window in our quest for a rear view in
winter.

Use the wing mirrors? only if you had fitted them.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
***@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.
alan_m
2021-09-05 20:53:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Natural Philosopher
I recall fitting a squishy bulb windscreen washer, too.
My first car came with a factory fitted foot operated squishy bulb
windscreen washer. It was usually solid with ice on a winter's morning :)
--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Tim+
2021-09-05 10:26:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
Your link doesn’t work for me. I can’t find nothing about retro-fitting to
older vehicles. Doubt that would be possible for many vehicles anyway.
What they may be talking about is vehicles homolgated after 2022 which
should have the necessary hardware, if not the software, to enable it.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Davidm
2021-09-05 10:41:52 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 05 Sep 2021 10:50:52 +0100, Davidm
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
Full link
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/content/news/mandatory-speed-limiters-on-uk-cars-from-2022
Jim GM4DHJ ...
2021-09-05 12:15:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
It will never happen just like phasing out ICE cars in 2030 ....
Fredxx
2021-09-05 12:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
It will never happen just like phasing out ICE cars in 2030 ....
Never say never. The speed brigade and speed scamera supporters will
have their way.
Jim GM4DHJ ...
2021-09-05 14:07:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
It will never happen just like phasing out ICE cars in 2030 ....
Never say never. The speed brigade and speed scamera supporters will
have their way.
what and cut their income to zero ? ...
Fredxx
2021-09-05 18:37:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
It will never happen just like phasing out ICE cars in 2030 ....
Never say never. The speed brigade and speed scamera supporters will
have their way.
what and cut their income to zero ? ...
The speed brigade and speed scamera support is not about money. It is
sold on safety. Every life counts etc.
Roland Perry
2021-09-06 06:03:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
It will never happen just like phasing out ICE cars in 2030 ....
Never say never. The speed brigade and speed scamera supporters will
have their way.
what and cut their income to zero ? ...
The speed brigade and speed scamera support is not about money. It is
sold on safety. Every life counts etc.
They still need the revenue stream to operate the camera networks.

I remember when Nottingham's Ring Road got one of the first SPECS
systems. The local police were apoplectic because people slowed down so
much it didn't generate enough income to pay for itself.
--
Roland Perry
Fredxx
2021-09-06 08:01:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
It will never happen just like phasing out ICE cars in 2030 ....
Never say never. The speed brigade and speed scamera supporters will
have their way.
what and cut their income to zero ? ...
The speed brigade and speed scamera support is not about money. It is
sold on safety. Every life counts etc.
They still need the revenue stream to operate the camera networks.
The revenue stream has been directed at the Treasury for quite a while,
during the reign of Gordon Brown if I recall correctly.
Post by Roland Perry
I remember when Nottingham's Ring Road got one of the first SPECS
systems. The local police were apoplectic because people slowed down so
much it didn't generate enough income to pay for itself.
Steve Walker
2021-09-06 08:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
It will never happen just like phasing out ICE cars in 2030 ....
Never say never. The speed brigade and speed scamera supporters
will have their way.
what and cut their income to zero ? ...
The speed brigade and speed scamera support is not about money. It is
sold on safety. Every life counts etc.
They still need the revenue stream to operate the camera networks.
The revenue stream has been directed at the Treasury for quite a while,
during the reign of Gordon Brown if I recall correctly.
According to the RAC, "Since 2000, local authorities have been able to
keep a proportion of the money raised by speed cameras, to fund regional
schemes."

IIRC, the deal was that LAs could keep some of the money and to try and
stop drivers thinking it was purely a revenue making scheme, they could
only do so as long as the cameras were painted yellow - that from grey,
green or black ones all went to the Treasury.

More recently, the amount the LAs can keep has been reduced and many LAs
have turned many of their cameras off.
Tim Streater
2021-09-06 08:46:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
It will never happen just like phasing out ICE cars in 2030 ....
Never say never. The speed brigade and speed scamera supporters will
have their way.
what and cut their income to zero ? ...
The speed brigade and speed scamera support is not about money. It is
sold on safety. Every life counts etc.
They still need the revenue stream to operate the camera networks.
The revenue stream has been directed at the Treasury for quite a while,
during the reign of Gordon Brown if I recall correctly.
The revenue stream from all forms of traffic offences should *always* be
directed to the Treasury and *never* to the local authority. Doing the latter
is a source of corruption.
--
"What causes poverty?" Wrong question. Poverty is our primordial state. The real question is, "What causes wealth?"

Hint: it ain't Socialism.
Roland Perry
2021-09-06 10:31:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
It will never happen just like phasing out ICE cars in 2030 ....
Never say never. The speed brigade and speed scamera supporters
will have their way.
what and cut their income to zero ? ...
The speed brigade and speed scamera support is not about money. It
is sold on safety. Every life counts etc.
They still need the revenue stream to operate the camera networks.
The revenue stream has been directed at the Treasury for quite a while,
during the reign of Gordon Brown if I recall correctly.
Are you sure that none at all is paid to the local "safety camera
partnership" to actually operate the system?

And the attendance fees for "speed awareness courses", are they all paid
to the Treasury too?
Post by Fredxx
Post by Roland Perry
I remember when Nottingham's Ring Road got one of the first SPECS
systems. The local police were apoplectic because people slowed down
so much it didn't generate enough income to pay for itself.
--
Roland Perry
Fredxx
2021-09-06 14:46:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Fredxx
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
It will never happen just like phasing out ICE cars in 2030 ....
Never say never. The speed brigade and speed scamera supporters
will  have their way.
what and cut their income to zero ? ...
The speed brigade and speed scamera support is not about money. It
is  sold on safety. Every life counts etc.
 They still need the revenue stream to operate the camera networks.
The revenue stream has been directed at the Treasury for quite a
while, during the reign of Gordon Brown if I recall correctly.
Are you sure that none at all is paid to the local "safety camera
partnership" to actually operate the system?
After a google I would say yes. One source:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/648328/FOI2017-13509_-_Revenue_collected_in_fines_and_penalties_from_driving_offences.pdf
Post by Roland Perry
And the attendance fees for "speed awareness courses", are they all paid
to the Treasury too?
They are private courses that pay commission to ex-serving police officers.

https://www.abd.org.uk/where-all-the-money-from-speed-awareness-courses-went-in-2017/
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Fredxx
I remember when Nottingham's Ring Road got one of the first SPECS
systems. The local police were apoplectic because people slowed down
so  much it didn't generate enough income to pay for itself.
Roland Perry
2021-09-06 17:32:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Roland Perry
Post by Fredxx
Post by Fredxx
The speed brigade and speed scamera support is not about money. It
is  sold on safety. Every life counts etc.
 They still need the revenue stream to operate the camera networks.
The revenue stream has been directed at the Treasury for quite a
while, during the reign of Gordon Brown if I recall correctly.
Are you sure that none at all is paid to the local "safety camera
partnership" to actually operate the system?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa
ds/attachment_data/file/648328/FOI2017-13509_-_Revenue_collected_in_fine
s_and_penalties_from_driving_offences.pdf
Post by Roland Perry
And the attendance fees for "speed awareness courses", are they all
paid to the Treasury too?
They are private courses that pay commission to ex-serving police officers.
https://www.abd.org.uk/where-all-the-money-from-speed-awareness-courses-
went-in-2017/
The Nottingham thing was in around 2005.
--
Roland Perry
Jim GM4DHJ ...
2021-09-06 11:35:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
It will never happen just like phasing out ICE cars in 2030 ....
Never say never. The speed brigade and speed scamera supporters will
have their way.
what and cut their income to zero ? ...
The speed brigade and speed scamera support is not about money. It is
sold on safety. Every life counts etc.
titter titter
Rod Speed
2021-09-05 21:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fredxx
Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
It will never happen just like phasing out ICE cars in 2030 ....
Never say never. The speed brigade and speed scamera supporters will
have their way.
That remains to be seen given the stupidly higher price and
stupidly more hassle with daily recharging. In spades with those
who cant even park their car on their own property overnight.
Robin
2021-09-05 13:37:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
As already noted by others, no. From the official EU media site[1] (with
emphasis added):

"From July 2022, Intelligent speed assistance (ISA) will be mandatory
for new models/types of vehicles introduced on the market. The ISA will
become mandatory for all new cars that will be sold from July 2024
(*therefore it will not concern the vehicle fleet already registered and
in circulation before that date*).
Post by Davidm
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
I don't know where that comes from but it is at odds with the same
source which states the regulation gives makers 4 options:

The ISA regulation provides four options for systems feedback to the
driver, from which car manufacturers will be free to choose from:

Cascaded acoustic warning
Cascaded vibrating warning
Haptic feedback through the acceleration pedal
Speed control function

NB only 1 out of a "limiter" as such. And even then

"Even in the case of speed control function, where the car speed will be
automatically gently reduced, the system can be smoothly overridden by
the driver by pressing the accelerator pedal a little bit deeper."

I've not read the draft Regulation so they might be misleading but it
seems unlikely they'd tell enormous porkies on such central points.

[1]
<https://webgate.ec.europa.eu/multisite/ersc/resources-knowledge/media-and-press/intelligent-speed-assistance-isa-set-become-mandatory-across_en>
--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Tim+
2021-09-05 15:24:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robin
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
As already noted by others, no. From the official EU media site[1] (with
"From July 2022, Intelligent speed assistance (ISA) will be mandatory
for new models/types of vehicles introduced on the market. The ISA will
become mandatory for all new cars that will be sold from July 2024
(*therefore it will not concern the vehicle fleet already registered and
in circulation before that date*).
Post by Davidm
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
I don't know where that comes from but it is at odds with the same
It seems exceedingly unlikely that no over-ride will exist. After all,
cars aren’t always driven on public roads.

Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls
Brian Gaff (Sofa)
2021-09-06 07:47:51 UTC
Permalink
I don't know much about the idea, but it should not affect acceleration to
get you out of trouble just speed limits I think. My question is how will it
know what to set to?
Speeding is a big problem in residential streets but I'd also say that if
it does come to pass, then people will have to learn about how to cope with
in its limitations.
Brian
--
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
***@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
Rod Speed
2021-09-06 10:02:52 UTC
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Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
I don't know much about the idea, but it should not affect
acceleration to get you out of trouble just speed limits I
think. My question is how will it know what to set to?
By reading the speed limit signs and using the database.
Post by Brian Gaff (Sofa)
Speeding is a big problem in residential streets but I'd
also say that if it does come to pass, then people will
have to learn about how to cope with in its limitations.
Post by Davidm
https://tinyurl.com/sw24asjzz
effective from 6 July 2022, and retro fitted to all cars by 2024.
Initially they will have an override or on/off switch, but later on
this will be withdrawn.
Sounds potentially dangerous to me, but then I don't know how they'd
implement it for my 20 year old Rover 75! Just hope it doesn't become
an MOT pass/fail issue.
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