WHO IS THE REAL BILL

[michael]

Has ANY Bill spoke to you in person?
Is this person's name really Bill or is it a fake?
Is Bill a real person? Does Bill really exist?
Is Bill a man or a woman? Or neither. Or both?!
Does Bill tell the truth?
Did Bill evolve to this?
Where did Bill come from? Why?
Was Bill born? Was Bill a baby?
How could Bill be born if Bill didn't exist before birth?
Did Bill exist before birth?
Where did Bill begin?
Why is Bill here?
Can we exist without Bill? I don't like to get bills, except dollar
bills.
Do you have faith in Bill?
What is faith in Bill?
Does Bill convince you to believe or not believe?
Why should we believe Bill?
Is Bill nice?
Is Bill good or evil?
Is Bill honest and trustworthy?
Is Bill a friend?
Does Bill feel love for you?
How do we know that Bill feels love?
If there's a real Bill, why doesn't Bill convince everybody that God
doesn't exist?
Bye, Bill

[Robibnikoff]

Post by michael
Has ANY Bill spoke to you in person?

Why late father's name was Bill. Your point?

[michael]

I know there's some good Bills out there but this one's for "WHO IS
THE REAL GOD" Bill in previous posting. Man created God? I couldn't
resist to not post.

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
I know there's some good Bills out there but this one's for "WHO IS
THE REAL GOD" Bill in previous posting. Man created God? I couldn't
resist to not post.

Bill responds to posts. Unlike your god...

[michael]

Hi, Uncle Vic! That is so hilarious, it's funny! Ha-ha! God doesn't
need to post anything here - actually, neither does the Devil! God
gave us the Bible. I know...it was written by men but it was divinely
inspired through individuals that completely yielded their minds to
him. Okay, so that answer doesn't convince you. Listen, do you
honestly think that I would believe in Christianity if it weren't
real? Well, you don't me. God proves himself to individuals that
diligently seek him. I've received physical healings from God that has
convinced me to believe. Perhaps you haven't come to that place (not
that I wish anything bad on you, of course!) because God works through
faith. You're doubting this, so God can't prove himself to you. Like
I told someone else, tell God that you don't believe and to prove
himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens. That's
it! But you'll have to live according to the standard of the Bible.
Maybe you would believe in the Devil. People don't practice
witchcraft for nothing! Or, worship the Devil! Believe me, I'm not
making light of this. Evil is just as real as the Good. Well, I'm not
twisting your arm.

[Chris Johnson]

Post by michael
Hi, Uncle Vic! That is so hilarious, it's funny! Ha-ha! God doesn't
need to post anything here - actually, neither does the Devil! God
gave us the Bible. I know...it was written by men but it was divinely
inspired through individuals that completely yielded their minds to
him. Okay, so that answer doesn't convince you. Listen, do you
honestly think that I would believe in Christianity if it weren't
real?

Now that's an argument I've never heard before. Intelligent people have
believed a great many patently wrong things.

Obviously you don't think you're believing something wrong, but forgive
us for wanting real evidence.

Post by michael
Well, you don't me. God proves himself to individuals that
diligently seek him. I've received physical healings from God that has
convinced me to believe. Perhaps you haven't come to that place (not
that I wish anything bad on you, of course!) because God works through
faith.

In other words, "God" works through ignorance.

Post by michael
You're doubting this, so God can't prove himself to you.

If your god were real, it'd know precisely what it'd take to convince
me. So when it decides to get off its ass and do so, I'll be here.

Post by michael
Like
I told someone else, tell God that you don't believe and to prove
himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens. That's
it!

Liar. Do you think we haven't thought to *ask* any gods to show
themselves?

Post by michael
But you'll have to live according to the standard of the Bible.

Your magic book can't be trusted as an independent source for history
or morality.

Post by michael
Maybe you would believe in the Devil.

Why should we? He's never shown himself any more than your god has.

Post by michael
People don't practice witchcraft for nothing! Or, worship the
Devil! Believe me, I'm not making light of this.

I don't think anyone would ever accuse you of taking it too lightly.

Post by michael
Evil is just as real as the Good. Well, I'm not
twisting your arm.

You need to work on your credulity.

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
Hi, Uncle Vic! That is so hilarious, it's funny! Ha-ha! God doesn't
need to post anything here - actually, neither does the Devil! God
gave us the Bible. I know...it was written by men but it was divinely
inspired through individuals that completely yielded their minds to
him. Okay, so that answer doesn't convince you. Listen, do you
honestly think that I would believe in Christianity if it weren't
real? Well, you don't me. God proves himself to individuals that
diligently seek him. I've received physical healings from God that has
convinced me to believe. Perhaps you haven't come to that place (not
that I wish anything bad on you, of course!) because God works through
faith. You're doubting this, so God can't prove himself to you. Like
I told someone else, tell God that you don't believe and to prove
himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens. That's
it! But you'll have to live according to the standard of the Bible.
Maybe you would believe in the Devil. People don't practice
witchcraft for nothing! Or, worship the Devil! Believe me, I'm not
making light of this. Evil is just as real as the Good. Well, I'm not
twisting your arm.

Hi Michael! Let me ask you something!

What is the one thing that all religions have in common? They all claim
to be the One True Religion. As it is, this cannot be possible - they
all cannot be right, and they all have the same lack of evidence that
would otherwise prove them right. They all *can* be wrong, however.

What would it take for Christianity to be real? It depends on what you
mean by real. Well, for one thing, Christianity *is* real, there is a
religion by that name, and they all worship what seems to be the same
invisible man in the sky, although they all define him differently. No,
by real I mean something different here. What would it take for all the
beliefs - all the gods, devils, heaven, hell and afterlife to be real?

It would take One True Religion. One! Everyone on the planet would have
the same beliefs, and there would be no heretics, no other gods, no other
religions, and no atheists. The real god would make it absolutely
obvious that he exists, and what his plan is, and how to execute it.
Everyone would be confident that they are going to see their loved ones
in heaven when they die, there would be no evil, and no doubt.

Instead, however, we have hundreds if not thousands of different beliefs,
religions, gods, demons, heavens and hells. We have civil unrest and
wars over who is right, who is wrong, who is going to heaven, and who is
going to hell.

What makes you think you are right?

[michael]

It's the miracles and healings that help me to believe AND my own
personal experiences. There's a reason that Christianity is the
world's number one religion because people are receiving something
from it. If it was fake, it would be the world's greatest joke on the
human race and everyone that has claimed to receive a healing from God
(through Jesus) would be telling a lie, including myself. There would
be many, many liars on the face of the planet!

Don't forget the people that practice black magic, witchcraft, voodoo,
etc. Take a trip to Africa sometime, where magic is more open than in
America. Lucifer, aka the Devil, has a mighty army of spirits working
over there because so many people yield to his power. God can't always
stop anything evil from happening because he gave people free choice
to prove their love for him in obedience to his word. When Adam and
Eve sinned, their punishment was the curse that fell on them and the
human race. God didn't want to make robots so he gave Adam and Eve
free choice to show their love for him, which they failed. God could
have destroyed the human race but then there wouldn't have been any
point in giving them free choice, right? So the human race had to
breed in the fallen flesh knowing good and evil.

Sin has allowed the Devil to freely roam the earth since the fall of
Adam. The Devil doesn't reveal himself to most people but his reasons
are far different than God's. The Bible explains so much about the
conditions of life. I don't know any other book that does. In addition
to all of this, people have claimed to be healed of AIDS in Africa
confirmed by doctors. We've had many miracles in America that have
also been confirmed by doctors. These things don't just happen. And no
other religions have offered the kind of healing and miracles that
Christianity has brought to the human race. Life isn't fair because
Adam and Eve opened the door to the unfairness of life. Many religions
exist but they don't worship the same God and Jehovah God can't stop
it because of free choice.

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
It's the miracles and healings that help me to believe AND my own
personal experiences.

Do you talk to the god? Does he answer back? What does his voice sound
like? Does he speak English?

I've tried to have personal experiences. I'm sorry, but I am incapable
of seeing a spade as anything but a spade. Miracles are nothing but
misunderstood random events that have random effects on random people.
The Pope got together with many of the world's religious leaders and
prayed to his god to stop the faminous heat wave that struck Europe one
year. Remember that? The heat wave eventually ended. THANK GAWWWD IT'S
A MIRACLE! Aunt Agatha's stomach cancer went into remission last year,
THANK GAWWWD IT'S A MIRACLE! Too bad she was hit by a bus the following
week. Where was god then?

Post by michael
There's a reason that Christianity is the
world's number one religion because people are receiving something
from it.

Let me help you rephrase that. People *think* they are receiving
something from it. Ever heard of a placebo? Christianity is one huge
placebo. In fact, it's the number one placebo since there are so many
gullible people in the world.

Post by michael
If it was fake, it would be the world's greatest joke on the
human race

It is pretty hilarious, don't you think? I mean, talking snakes, magic
wands, faith healing, food falling from the sky, the son of a virgin
rising bodily into the sky? A golden city in the sky occupied by people
with both feet and wings? A life that continues somehow after the death
of the brain? It's a joke all right.

Post by michael
and everyone that has claimed to receive a healing from God
(through Jesus) would be telling a lie, including myself. There would
be many, many liars on the face of the planet!

Why do I feel like I've already responded to this post?

<snip>

[Panama Floyd]

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
It's the miracles and healings that help me to believe AND my own
personal experiences.

Do you talk to the god? Does he answer back? What does his voice sound
like? Does he speak English?
I've tried to have personal experiences. I'm sorry, but I am incapable
of seeing a spade as anything but a spade. Miracles are nothing but
misunderstood random events that have random effects on random people.
The Pope got together with many of the world's religious leaders and
prayed to his god to stop the faminous heat wave that struck Europe one
year. Remember that? The heat wave eventually ended. THANK GAWWWD IT'S
A MIRACLE! Aunt Agatha's stomach cancer went into remission last year,
THANK GAWWWD IT'S A MIRACLE! Too bad she was hit by a bus the following
week. Where was god then?

Post by michael
There's a reason that Christianity is the
world's number one religion because people are receiving something
from it.

Let me help you rephrase that. People *think* they are receiving
something from it. Ever heard of a placebo? Christianity is one huge
placebo. In fact, it's the number one placebo since there are so many
gullible people in the world.

Post by michael
If it was fake, it would be the world's greatest joke on the
human race

It is pretty hilarious, don't you think? I mean, talking snakes, magic
wands, faith healing, food falling from the sky, the son of a virgin
rising bodily into the sky? A golden city in the sky occupied by people
with both feet and wings? A life that continues somehow after the death
of the brain? It's a joke all right.

Post by michael
and everyone that has claimed to receive a healing from God
(through Jesus) would be telling a lie, including myself. There would
be many, many liars on the face of the planet!

Why do I feel like I've already responded to this post?
<snip>

Because you have. Hell, I think we all have. Dozens, hundreds,
thousands of times over the last ten-or-so years? I don't know what I
hate more. The condesending tone, or the fact that every single one of
them thinks they're the first one ever to say it to us.

-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

Post by Uncle Vic
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011, aw Hellboy #5
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department

[bob young]

Post by Panama Floyd

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
It's the miracles and healings that help me to believe AND my own
personal experiences.

Do you talk to the god? Does he answer back? What does his voice sound
like? Does he speak English?
I've tried to have personal experiences. I'm sorry, but I am incapable
of seeing a spade as anything but a spade. Miracles are nothing but
misunderstood random events that have random effects on random people.
The Pope got together with many of the world's religious leaders and
prayed to his god to stop the faminous heat wave that struck Europe one
year. Remember that? The heat wave eventually ended. THANK GAWWWD IT'S
A MIRACLE! Aunt Agatha's stomach cancer went into remission last year,
THANK GAWWWD IT'S A MIRACLE! Too bad she was hit by a bus the following
week. Where was god then?

Post by michael
There's a reason that Christianity is the
world's number one religion because people are receiving something
from it.

Let me help you rephrase that. People *think* they are receiving
something from it. Ever heard of a placebo? Christianity is one huge
placebo. In fact, it's the number one placebo since there are so many
gullible people in the world.

Post by michael
If it was fake, it would be the world's greatest joke on the
human race

It is pretty hilarious, don't you think? I mean, talking snakes, magic
wands, faith healing, food falling from the sky, the son of a virgin
rising bodily into the sky? A golden city in the sky occupied by people
with both feet and wings? A life that continues somehow after the death
of the brain? It's a joke all right.

Post by michael
and everyone that has claimed to receive a healing from God
(through Jesus) would be telling a lie, including myself. There would
be many, many liars on the face of the planet!

Why do I feel like I've already responded to this post?
<snip>

Because you have. Hell, I think we all have. Dozens, hundreds,
thousands of times over the last ten-or-so years? I don't know what I
hate more. The condesending tone, or the fact that every single one of
them thinks they're the first one ever to say it to us.

Well when they congregate they don't have much else to talk about, unless they
are holding a 'Truth' service of course, must have four of them a year, at
least. I wonder why?

Post by Panama Floyd
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

Post by Uncle Vic
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011, aw Hellboy #5
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department

[bob young]

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
It's the miracles and healings that help me to believe AND my own
personal experiences.

Do you talk to the god? Does he answer back? What does his voice sound
like? Does he speak English?
I've tried to have personal experiences. I'm sorry, but I am incapable
of seeing a spade as anything but a spade. Miracles are nothing but
misunderstood random events that have random effects on random people.
The Pope got together with many of the world's religious leaders and
prayed to his god to stop the faminous heat wave that struck Europe one
year. Remember that? The heat wave eventually ended. THANK GAWWWD IT'S
A MIRACLE! Aunt Agatha's stomach cancer went into remission last year,
THANK GAWWWD IT'S A MIRACLE! Too bad she was hit by a bus the following
week. Where was god then?

In those circumstances it is a case of 'head down boys, a low profile and
keep quiet'

Post by Uncle Vic

Post by michael
There's a reason that Christianity is the
world's number one religion because people are receiving something
from it.

Let me help you rephrase that. People *think* they are receiving
something from it. Ever heard of a placebo? Christianity is one huge
placebo. In fact, it's the number one placebo since there are so many
gullible people in the world.

with all the 'goings on' over the Danish cartoons right now i would put
Islam first and Christianity second. The terrible possibility being that
million could die when some Islamism gets a dirty bomb and lets it off to
kill Infidels. THAT'S what religion does for yer!

Post by Uncle Vic

Post by michael
If it was fake, it would be the world's greatest joke on the
human race

It is pretty hilarious, don't you think? I mean, talking snakes, magic
wands, faith healing, food falling from the sky, the son of a virgin
rising bodily into the sky? A golden city in the sky occupied by people
with both feet and wings? A life that continues somehow after the death
of the brain? It's a joke all right.

Naaaaa....it's the 'feel good factor'

Post by Uncle Vic

Post by michael
and everyone that has claimed to receive a healing from God
(through Jesus) would be telling a lie, including myself. There would
be many, many liars on the face of the planet!

Why do I feel like I've already responded to this post?
<snip>
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011, aw Hellboy #5
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department

[michael]

Dear, Dear Uncle Vic, God talks to us through his word. That's why the
Bible exists in print. It's a book that has to be taken by faith, or
should I say, confidence (as someone else has stated). It's a book
that promises miracles and healings, which is why many people have
claimed to receive. There have been many people claiming physical
miracles around the world through Christianity. I'll tell you one.
There's a lady here in America that had one of her lungs removed. She
received prayer and later started feeling breathing on the side where
it was removed. The doctor didn't believe her and she insisted on an
x-ray. The doctor gave in. When the x-ray's returned, the doctor was
baffled. She had a new lung!! She didn't "think" that she had a
miracle, she knew it.

Try telling thousands of people that miracles are not real that have
had symptoms and doctor's confirmation that they had AIDS and now
they're healed. You don't have to believe what I'm saying but I'm not
lying. If I lied to you, I would no longer be a Christian. You have
free choice to believe or not believe. Christians are suppose to be
honest people. They're not suppose to lie, cheat, steal, murder, have
prejudice, etc.

Perhaps, if nothing else to you, the Bible helps to minimize these
kinds of undesirable actions in people. Believe me, I understand
discrimination. A lot of people have hurt me in my lifetime but I
don't hold any grudges. Wow, I could really make a list. Christians
have to love the souls of people because it's a part of God but they
don't have to like everybody. Do you like everybody? You probably
don't like me but that's okay.

Don't think that a Christian can't be tempted in these points.
Sometimes it's easier to hate than to love but if Christians commit
one sin, they're no longer Christian. If you've faced discrimination,
hatred, bitterness, prejudice, like I have, you would see that
Christian love and acceptance is very desirable.

[Uncle Buck]

Post by michael
Dear, Dear Uncle Vic, God talks to us through his word. That's why the
Bible exists in print. It's a book that has to be taken by faith, or
should I say, confidence (as someone else has stated). It's a book
that promises miracles and healings, which is why many people have
claimed to receive. There have been many people claiming physical
miracles around the world through Christianity. I'll tell you one.
There's a lady here in America that had one of her lungs removed. She
received prayer and later started feeling breathing on the side where
it was removed. The doctor didn't believe her and she insisted on an
x-ray. The doctor gave in. When the x-ray's returned, the doctor was
baffled. She had a new lung!! She didn't "think" that she had a
miracle, she knew it.

<snip>

Now the challenge comes down to figuring out -which- imposter you really are.
I'll take my first guess: Elroy. ¿Estoy cercano?
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
************************************************
"'True Perfection' would not be sadistic enough
to create anything other than its exact equal."
************************************************

Bonus sig:
"Every Buddha just needs some Buddha to love..."

[Elroy Willis]

Post by Uncle Vic

Post by michael
Dear, Dear Uncle Vic, God talks to us through his word. That's why the
Bible exists in print. It's a book that has to be taken by faith, or
should I say, confidence (as someone else has stated). It's a book
that promises miracles and healings, which is why many people have
claimed to receive. There have been many people claiming physical
miracles around the world through Christianity. I'll tell you one.
There's a lady here in America that had one of her lungs removed. She
received prayer and later started feeling breathing on the side where
it was removed. The doctor didn't believe her and she insisted on an
x-ray. The doctor gave in. When the x-ray's returned, the doctor was
baffled. She had a new lung!! She didn't "think" that she had a
miracle, she knew it.

<snip>
Now the challenge comes down to figuring out -which- imposter you
really are. I'll take my first guess: Elroy. ¿Estoy cercano?

No es yo! :)

[Enkidu]

Post by michael
Try telling thousands of people that miracles are not real that have
had symptoms and doctor's confirmation that they had AIDS and now
they're healed.

Document this claim.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA

PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0

Religion is but a desperate attempt to find an escape from the truly
dreadful situation in which we find ourselves. Here we are in this wholly
fantastic universe with scarcely a clue as to whether our existence has any
real significance. No wonder then that many people feel the need for some
belief that gives them a sense of security, and no wonder that they become
very angry with people like me who say that this is illusory.
-- Fred Hoyle

[michael]

You're telling me to get medical records that I have no way of
accessing. Maybe you should talk to a few doctors that might be
willing to tell you about some of their patients' recoveries that
believed in God for a miracle. Maybe you could advertise for people
that have had AIDS to come forward so you can question them. They can
probably refer you to their doctor that could show you records of
their disease before they were cured. I personally don't know anyone
that had AIDS so I can't refer a friend to you. Many, many people
would be lying if they truly were not cured of AIDS.

[Enkidu]

Post by michael
You're telling me to get medical records that I have no way of
accessing. Maybe you should talk to a few doctors that might be
willing to tell you about some of their patients' recoveries that
believed in God for a miracle. Maybe you could advertise for people
that have had AIDS to come forward so you can question them. They can
probably refer you to their doctor that could show you records of
their disease before they were cured. I personally don't know anyone
that had AIDS so I can't refer a friend to you. Many, many people
would be lying if they truly were not cured of AIDS.

So . . . you claim as evidence, that God has cured thousands of AIDS, yet
you have *nothing* but your word. I would expect a report in the Lancet
or the New England Journal of Medicine. Yet the exact opposite is true.
The rare case where someone survives, researchers jump right in.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA

PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0

In 1850, I believe, the church property in the United States, which paid
no tax, amounted to $87 million. In 1900, without a check, it is safe to
say, this property will reach a sum exceeding $3 billion. I would suggest
the taxation of all property equally.
-- Ulysses S. Grant

[kathryn]

Post by Enkidu

Post by michael
You're telling me to get medical records that I have no way of
accessing. Maybe you should talk to a few doctors that might be
willing to tell you about some of their patients' recoveries that
believed in God for a miracle. Maybe you could advertise for people
that have had AIDS to come forward so you can question them. They can
probably refer you to their doctor that could show you records of
their disease before they were cured. I personally don't know anyone
that had AIDS so I can't refer a friend to you. Many, many people
would be lying if they truly were not cured of AIDS.

So . . . you claim as evidence, that God has cured thousands of AIDS, yet
you have *nothing* but your word. I would expect a report in the Lancet
or the New England Journal of Medicine. Yet the exact opposite is true.
The rare case where someone survives, researchers jump right in.
--
Enkidu AA#2165

Hmm I read in the paper not so long ago about a fella who has supposedly
been cured of AIDS (how true it is was still to be determined), the big
story being that it just doesn't happen.

Kathryn

[Enkidu]

Post by kathryn

Post by Enkidu

Post by michael
You're telling me to get medical records that I have no way of
accessing. Maybe you should talk to a few doctors that might be
willing to tell you about some of their patients' recoveries that
believed in God for a miracle. Maybe you could advertise for people
that have had AIDS to come forward so you can question them. They
can probably refer you to their doctor that could show you records
of their disease before they were cured. I personally don't know
anyone that had AIDS so I can't refer a friend to you. Many, many
people would be lying if they truly were not cured of AIDS.

So . . . you claim as evidence, that God has cured thousands of AIDS,
yet you have *nothing* but your word. I would expect a report in the
Lancet or the New England Journal of Medicine. Yet the exact
opposite is true. The rare case where someone survives, researchers
jump right in.
--
Enkidu AA#2165

Hmm I read in the paper not so long ago about a fella who has
supposedly been cured of AIDS (how true it is was still to be
determined), the big story being that it just doesn't happen.

But Michael claims there are thousands of such cures, and that it's
evidence of God. He's wrong on both counts. There have not been
thousands of cures outside his own mind, and even if there had been, it
would be no more evidence of God's intervention than the millions who
fail to die of malaria, flu, or the common cold are.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA

PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0

"For my money, I'll bet on reason and humanistic kindness. Even if I am
wrong I will have enjoyed my life, the existence of which is under little
dispute."
-Dan Barker

[michael]

How do you know for sure that I'm wrong? I'm not getting any kicks out
of just saying this stuff, you know. That's okay, more people are
becoming believers in Africa through the miracles that you want to
deny but you're allowed! :) There's always going to be unbelievers.

[kathryn]

Post by michael
How do you know for sure that I'm wrong? I'm not getting any kicks out
of just saying this stuff, you know. That's okay, more people are
becoming believers in Africa through the miracles that you want to
deny but you're allowed! :) There's always going to be unbelievers.

Hey if you're right feel free to go ahead and post links to some actual
evidence :)

I could say that I personally cured millions of people of AIDS just with my
hands. Doesn't make it true though does it.

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
How do you know for sure that I'm wrong?

How do you know for sure there are no Sugarplum Fairies dancing on my
hillside?

[michael]

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
How do you know for sure that I'm wrong?

How do you know for sure there are no Sugarplum Fairies dancing on my
hillside?

How do you know for sure that Sugarplum Fairies exist?

[Uncle Buck]

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
How do you know for sure that I'm wrong?

How do you know for sure there are no Sugarplum Fairies dancing on my
hillside?

How do you know for sure that Sugarplum Fairies exist?

There are sugarplums, are there not? :-?
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
************************************************
"'True Perfection' would not be sadistic enough
to create anything other than its exact equal."
************************************************

Bonus sig:
"Every Buddha just needs some Buddha to love..."

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
How do you know for sure that I'm wrong?

How do you know for sure there are no Sugarplum Fairies dancing on my
hillside?

How do you know for sure that Sugarplum Fairies exist?

How do we know your god exists?

[michael]

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
How do you know for sure that I'm wrong?

How do you know for sure there are no Sugarplum Fairies dancing on my
hillside?

How do you know for sure that Sugarplum Fairies exist?

How do we know your god exists?

Because I was created in the image of God.

[Enkidu]

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
How do you know for sure that I'm wrong?

How do you know for sure there are no Sugarplum Fairies dancing on my
hillside?

How do you know for sure that Sugarplum Fairies exist?

How do we know your god exists?

Because I was created in the image of God.

So you say. But I think you are lying or mistaken.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA

PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0

If you want to save your child from polio, you can pray or you can
inoculate.
-- Carl Sagan

[michael]

Post by Enkidu

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
How do you know for sure that I'm wrong?

How do you know for sure there are no Sugarplum Fairies dancing on my
hillside?

How do you know for sure that Sugarplum Fairies exist?

How do we know your god exists?

Because I was created in the image of God.

So you say. But I think you are lying or mistaken.

well, i know i can't be lying or i wouldn't be a christian. i know i
can't be lying or the bible would be lying. and if the bible's lying,
then i don't have a reason to make the sacrifices that the bible
teaches me to make. wow, the things i could do and get away with! i
better stop now, i don't want to tempt myself. my goodness, that would
be worse than eve!

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael

Post by michael

Post by Enkidu

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
How do you know for sure there are no Sugarplum Fairies dancing on
my hillside?

How do you know for sure that Sugarplum Fairies exist?

How do we know your god exists?

Because I was created in the image of God.

So you say. But I think you are lying or mistaken.

well, i know i can't be lying or i wouldn't be a christian.

Non-sequitur. Christians lie as much as anyone else. Perhaps even a
little bit more.

Post by michael
i know i
can't be lying or the bible would be lying.

Fancy that.

Post by michael
and if the bible's lying,
then i don't have a reason to make the sacrifices that the bible
teaches me to make.

Right. Some of us carry that to its logical conclusion.

Post by michael
wow, the things i could do and get away with!

Well, there *are* laws. Don't get caught.

Post by michael
i
better stop now, i don't want to tempt myself. my goodness, that would
be worse than eve!

Do you have a kitten? You could try a simple test. Put the kitten on a
table, and masturbate. See if "god" kills it.

http://tinyurl.com/5g3z5

[Enkidu]

Post by michael

Post by Enkidu

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 17:31:56 -0600, Uncle Vic

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
How do you know for sure that I'm wrong?

How do you know for sure there are no Sugarplum Fairies dancing on
my hillside?

How do you know for sure that Sugarplum Fairies exist?

How do we know your god exists?

Because I was created in the image of God.

So you say. But I think you are lying or mistaken.

well, i know i can't be lying or i wouldn't be a christian.

I've seen Christians lie. Some do it every weekend on TV. One bilked
believers out of their life savings using a hidden earpiece to fake a
direct line to God.

Post by michael
i know i can't be lying or the bible would be lying.

So? The Bible's lying.

Post by michael
and if the bible's lying,
then i don't have a reason to make the sacrifices that the bible
teaches me to make.

Right. Perhaps you should make rational choices instead.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA

PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0

"With religion, even the village idiot can feel like Einstein."

-- Denis Loubet

[bob young]

Post by michael

Post by Enkidu

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
How do you know for sure that I'm wrong?

How do you know for sure there are no Sugarplum Fairies dancing on my
hillside?

How do you know for sure that Sugarplum Fairies exist?

How do we know your god exists?

Because I was created in the image of God.

So you say. But I think you are lying or mistaken.

well, i know i can't be lying or i wouldn't be a christian. i know i
can't be lying or the bible would be lying. and if the bible's lying,
then i don't have a reason to make the sacrifices that the bible
teaches me to make. wow, the things i could do and get away with! i
better stop now, i don't want to tempt myself. my goodness, that would
be worse than eve!

I believe you're a satirist

[Robibnikoff]

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
How do you know for sure that I'm wrong?

How do you know for sure there are no Sugarplum Fairies dancing on my
hillside?

How do you know for sure that Sugarplum Fairies exist?

How do we know your god exists?

Because I was created in the image of God.

Prove it.

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
You're telling me to get medical records that I have no way of
accessing.

Then you have no business asserting it.

Post by michael
Maybe you should talk to a few doctors that might be
willing to tell you about some of their patients' recoveries that
believed in God for a miracle.

Why? You maid the claim, so the burden of proof is upon you.

<snip>

[michael]

ok uncle v, i'm only a part of the picture out of the whole. it takes
other people witnessing their own miracles to point to their medical
records. i don't know where all these medical records are located.

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
ok uncle v, i'm only a part of the picture out of the whole. it takes
other people witnessing their own miracles to point to their medical
records.

No, it takes repeatable results, otherwise miracles are nothing but
misunderstood random events that affect random people in random ways.

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
You don't have to believe what I'm saying

Thank you.

[michael]

in all fairness, though, i don't have to believe what your'e saying,
either. in fact, i don't have to believe anything, anybody tells me!
i'm a free, moral agent and i can do anything i want to do, whenever i
want to do it, wherever i want to do it and with whom i want to do it
with! I know, you'll agree to that! :)

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
You don't have to believe what I'm saying

Thank you.

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
You don't have to believe what I'm saying

Thank you.

in all fairness, though, i don't have to believe what your'e saying,
either. in fact, i don't have to believe anything, anybody tells me!
i'm a free, moral agent and i can do anything i want to do, whenever i
want to do it, wherever i want to do it and with whom i want to do it
with! I know, you'll agree to that! :)

Exactly. You're free to believe what you want to believe, and so am I,
and so is everyone else in the world. But here's a clip from your first
reply to me.

"You're doubting this, so God can't prove himself to you. Like
I told someone else, tell God that you don't believe and to prove
himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens. That's
it! But you'll have to live according to the standard of the Bible.
Maybe you would believe in the Devil. People don't practice
witchcraft for nothing! Or, worship the Devil! Believe me, I'm not
making light of this. Evil is just as real as the Good. Well, I'm not
twisting your arm."

You're trying to change my belief system to make it conform to yours.
You show me how to do it, tell me I must change my ways and abide by the
standards of your holy book (out of hundreds), then insinuate that if I
don't I'm evil. That's twisting my arm, which you then explicitly claim
you are not doing. What gives?

I understand you have a dogmatic necessity to "spread the good news".
One group in my area has gone as far as to place a billboard in a high
traffic area which attempts to make people feel guilty because Jesus
supposedly died for them. I have a big problem with that, because I
don't believe Jesus ever existed, and I don't appreciate people
insinuating that my standpoint is wrong, despite all the years of
research I performed to arrive at my conclusion. If religious people
could keep their religion to themselves, much the way sexual partners
keep their sexual relations to themselves, the world would be a much
better place.

[Olrik]

Post by michael
Dear, Dear Uncle Vic, God talks to us through his word. That's why the
Bible exists in print. It's a book that has to be taken by faith, or
should I say, confidence (as someone else has stated). It's a book
that promises miracles and healings, which is why many people have
claimed to receive. There have been many people claiming physical
miracles around the world through Christianity. I'll tell you one.
There's a lady here in America that had one of her lungs removed. She
received prayer and later started feeling breathing on the side where
it was removed. The doctor didn't believe her and she insisted on an
x-ray. The doctor gave in. When the x-ray's returned, the doctor was
baffled. She had a new lung!! She didn't "think" that she had a
miracle, she knew it.

Even if that were true, that person will die anyway.

BTW, I don't understand the "miracle" in the artificial delay of
unavoidable death.

<snip for brevity and sanity>

[bob young]

Post by michael
It's the miracles and healings that help me to believe AND my own
personal experiences.

Full details please, leaving nothing out and then a general opinion can
be formed about your miracle claim. These are not miracles of the
Biblical kind are they? You know, like walking on water. We don't have
those these days do we, do you EVER wonder WHY?

Post by michael
There's a reason that Christianity is the
world's number one religion because people are receiving something
from it. If it was fake, it would be the world's greatest joke on the
human race and everyone that has claimed to receive a healing from God
(through Jesus) would be telling a lie, including myself. There would
be many, many liars on the face of the planet!

well you said it, they do and there are !

Post by michael
Don't forget the people that practice black magic, witchcraft, voodoo,
etc. Take a trip to Africa sometime, where magic is more open than in
America.

I have been there, seen the 'talisman's' tied on tree branches to 'drive
away the evil spirits'. I guess you do not know that your religion
started in exactly the same way - protection from evil. Remember?

Post by michael
Lucifer, aka the Devil, has a mighty army of spirits working
over there because so many people yield to his power.

you sound like a preacher and lie like one

Post by michael
God can't always
stop anything evil from happening because he gave people free choice
to prove their love for him in obedience to his word.

convenient

Post by michael
When Adam and
Eve sinned, their punishment was the curse that fell on them and the
human race.

A and E is a MYTH, pure and simple, with the accent on 'simple'

Post by michael
God didn't want to make robots so he gave Adam and Eve
free choice to show their love for him,

Oh did He tell you that directly then? or another human. I plump for
the latter.

Post by michael
which they failed. God could
have destroyed the human race but then there wouldn't have been any
point in giving them free choice, right?

Been talking to Him again? [what does your religion say about 'bearing
false witness'?]

Post by michael
So the human race had to
breed in the fallen flesh knowing good and evil.
Sin has allowed the Devil to freely roam the earth since the fall of
Adam.

Arrant nonsense

Post by michael
The Devil doesn't reveal himself to most people but his reasons
are far different than God's.

boy are you brainwashed.

I give up, you are a hopeless case.

Enjoy your myth but try not to bother other people with it, there's a
good fella.

bob
Humanist Brit.
Hong Kong

'there are only two things that have no end,
human stupidity and the universe,
and I'm not sure about the universe'
[Albert Einstein]

Post by michael
The Bible explains so much about the
conditions of life. I don't know any other book that does. In addition
to all of this, people have claimed to be healed of AIDS in Africa
confirmed by doctors. We've had many miracles in America that have
also been confirmed by doctors. These things don't just happen. And no
other religions have offered the kind of healing and miracles that
Christianity has brought to the human race. Life isn't fair because
Adam and Eve opened the door to the unfairness of life. Many religions
exist but they don't worship the same God and Jehovah God can't stop
it because of free choice.

[michael]

Evolution? Did somebody say, evolution? So you made a choice to
believe in evolution. Well, I guess that's your right. In fact, you
can make up your own religion if it makes you feel better. Maybe you
could write a book on why everybody should be an honest person and not
lie, cheat, steal, have prejudice, discriminate and take advantage of
people. Like I told Uncle Vic, if nothing else to you, perhaps the
Bible helps to minimize these kinds of undesirable actions in people.
If I'm a liar to you, then I'm not a Christian, right? I can't be a
Christian if I lie. Duh! :)

I would think that it sounds better that we were formed out of Divine
Creation rather than a random act of some kind of organism where life
all began. Frankly, that's meaningless to me. I believe there's more
to life than this, a better life, but if you don't that's up to you.
The Bible requires Christians to sacrifice out of love for God and
people. I'm sorry if anyone, claiming to be a Christian, has cussed
you out. Some people give Christianity a bad name because they're not
Christian, according to the Bible that they claim to believe.

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
Evolution? Did somebody say, evolution? So you made a choice to
believe in evolution.

Believe? Did you say *Believe*??? Evolution is proven fact. There are
mountains of evidence to back the scientific findings. It's even
observable. Evolution is fact, there is no debate. DO you believe in
gravity?

Post by michael
Well, I guess that's your right. In fact, you
can make up your own religion if it makes you feel better.

Religions are for controlling people. Why bother?

Post by michael
Maybe you
could write a book on why everybody should be an honest person and not
lie, cheat, steal, have prejudice, discriminate and take advantage of
people. Like I told Uncle Vic, if nothing else to you, perhaps the
Bible helps to minimize these kinds of undesirable actions in people.
If I'm a liar to you, then I'm not a Christian, right? I can't be a
Christian if I lie. Duh! :)

You've told us already that you have experienced god and miracles, yet
you are unable to back your claims. You've told us that if we do not
accept *your* god we will perish in hell, yet you can't produce evidence
to back these claims. That means you have lied, Micheal. Shame on you.

<snip>

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

Post by michael
It's the miracles and healings that help me to believe AND my own
personal experiences. There's a reason that Christianity is the
world's number one religion because people are receiving something
from it. If it was fake, it would be the world's greatest joke on the
human race and everyone that has claimed to receive a healing from God
(through Jesus) would be telling a lie, including myself. There would
be many, many liars on the face of the planet!

very good, so you admit that all religon, especially christianity is a
fucking farce. congrats

[bob young]

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
Hi, Uncle Vic! That is so hilarious, it's funny! Ha-ha! God doesn't
need to post anything here - actually, neither does the Devil! God
gave us the Bible. I know...it was written by men but it was divinely
inspired through individuals that completely yielded their minds to
him. Okay, so that answer doesn't convince you. Listen, do you
honestly think that I would believe in Christianity if it weren't
real? Well, you don't me. God proves himself to individuals that
diligently seek him. I've received physical healings from God that has
convinced me to believe. Perhaps you haven't come to that place (not
that I wish anything bad on you, of course!) because God works through
faith. You're doubting this, so God can't prove himself to you. Like
I told someone else, tell God that you don't believe and to prove
himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens. That's
it! But you'll have to live according to the standard of the Bible.
Maybe you would believe in the Devil. People don't practice
witchcraft for nothing! Or, worship the Devil! Believe me, I'm not
making light of this. Evil is just as real as the Good. Well, I'm not
twisting your arm.

Hi Michael! Let me ask you something!
What is the one thing that all religions have in common? They all claim
to be the One True Religion. As it is, this cannot be possible - they
all cannot be right, and they all have the same lack of evidence that
would otherwise prove them right. They all *can* be wrong, however.
What would it take for Christianity to be real? It depends on what you
mean by real. Well, for one thing, Christianity *is* real, there is a
religion by that name, and they all worship what seems to be the same
invisible man in the sky, although they all define him differently. No,
by real I mean something different here. What would it take for all the
beliefs - all the gods, devils, heaven, hell and afterlife to be real?

.......and I would ask him to consider the multitude of factions within his
religion, there must be hundreds of them. Why? Because religion is created
by men who want influence over others and some cannot handle being 'just one
of the congregation' so they break away and form another branch of the
myth. Then they call themselves prophets or something akin to it. The fact
is, every prophet is a charlatan because every prophet in every religion
claims he has spoken to or is in close contact with a god, which is a patent
lie.

Post by Uncle Vic
It would take One True Religion. One! Everyone on the planet would have
the same beliefs, and there would be no heretics, no other gods, no other
religions, and no atheists. The real god would make it absolutely
obvious that he exists, and what his plan is, and how to execute it.
Everyone would be confident that they are going to see their loved ones
in heaven when they die, there would be no evil, and no doubt.

Isn't this so obvious, yet religionists cannot, or will not, bring
themselves to accept it.

So many were indoctrinated by their parents and to call one's parents
'deceivers' is a very hard thing to do.

Post by Uncle Vic
Instead, however, we have hundreds if not thousands of different beliefs,
religions, gods, demons, heavens and hells. We have civil unrest and
wars over who is right, who is wrong, who is going to heaven, and who is
going to hell.
What makes you think you are right?

His parents?

Post by Uncle Vic
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011, aw Hellboy #5
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department

Bob
Humanist Brit.
Hong Kong

"We look at the ancient Greeks with their gods on a mountain top throwing
lightning bolts and say, 'Those ancient Greeks. They were so silly. So
primitive and naive. Not like our religions. We have burning bushes talking
to people and guys walking on water. We're sophisticated.'"
[Acknowledgements to - Paul Provenza]

[bob young]

Post by michael
Hi, Uncle Vic! That is so hilarious, it's funny! Ha-ha! God doesn't
need to post anything here - actually, neither does the Devil! God
gave us the Bible.

ha ha Ha, man gave himself the bible and why would a god lower itself to
the extent it needs to spread it's word through a book full of
contradictions?

Try using your brains. a god didn't give them to you, evolution did

Post by michael
I know...it was written by men but it was divinely
inspired through individuals that completely yielded their minds to
him.

ha Ha Ha, that's what THEY claim,

see above my comments about using your brains

Post by michael
Okay, so that answer doesn't convince you. Listen, do you
honestly think that I would believe in Christianity if it weren't
real?

ha Ha Ha millions do. why? Because millions live in fear an connot
exist without a god, imaginary or otherwise

Post by michael
Well, you don't me. God proves himself to individuals that
diligently seek him.

Self hypnosis

Post by michael
I've received physical healings from God that has
convinced me to believe.

Lies and/or self hypnosis

Post by michael
Perhaps you haven't come to that place (not
that I wish anything bad on you, of course!) because God works through
faith. You're doubting this, so God can't prove himself to you. Like
I told someone else, tell God that you don't believe and to prove
himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens.

Nothing

Post by michael
That's
it! But you'll have to live according to the standard of the Bible.
Maybe you would believe in the Devil. People don't practice
witchcraft for nothing! Or, worship the Devil! Believe me, I'm not
making light of this. Evil is just as real as the Good.

Rubbish, evil is very real. Back in the time when those humans wrote
that old book they had no law enforcement, no courts of law, so the fear
of god was created to at least try to prevent the baddies having a free
for all.

We now do have law enforcement and courts of Law

Post by michael
Well, I'm not
twisting your arm.

Good. I was brought up Christian and got to see through the myth after
traveling to Africa and asia

bob
Humanist Brit.
Hong kong

To believe in God or in a guiding force because someone tells you to is
the height of stupidity. We are given senses to receive our information
within. With our own eyes we see, and with our own skin we feel. With our
intelligence, it is intended that we understand. But each person must
puzzle it out for himself or herself.
[Sophy Burnham]

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

I've received physical healings from God that has

Post by michael
convinced me to believe.

ernest angley or benny hinn bashed you on the forehead and yelled:
HHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL ?????????

[Mark K. Bilbo]

Hi, Uncle Vic! That is so hilarious, it's funny! Ha-ha! God doesn't need
to post anything here - actually, neither does the Devil! God gave us the
Bible. I know...it was written by men but it was divinely inspired through
individuals that completely yielded their minds to him.

Prove it.

[michael]

Disprove it.

(sorry, i couldn't resist)

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
Disprove it.
(sorry, i couldn't resist)

I'm not the one shagging for converts here. Your religion makes no sense
to me, so I choose to be a non-believer. I don't care what crazy shit you
want to believe, that's your problem.

[Enkidu]

Post by michael
Hi, Uncle Vic! That is so hilarious, it's funny! Ha-ha! God doesn't
need to post anything here - actually, neither does the Devil! God
gave us the Bible. I know...it was written by men but it was divinely
inspired through individuals that completely yielded their minds to
him.

Charles Manson, Jim Jones, and David Koresh all claimed to speak for God
as well. Why do you discount their revelations? On what basis do you
discriminate true revelations from God from false revelations? Nothing
more than the warm feeling you get when you 'believe in your heart'?

And what of those parts of the Bible you find inconvenient? You just
skip over them? Why? Because they aren't quite as inspired as the parts
you like? God meant it when He said to bash gays, but He lets you slide
on the cotton-poly tee-shirts?

Post by michael
Okay, so that answer doesn't convince you. Listen, do you
honestly think that I would believe in Christianity if it weren't
real? Well, you don't me. God proves himself to individuals that
diligently seek him.

So say the Muslims. What makes you right and them wrong? You and they
look remarkably alike from the outside.

Post by michael
I've received physical healings from God that has
convinced me to believe.

I've been sick and injured as well. But through natural selection's
self-repair mechanisms and modern medicine, I got better.

Post by michael
Perhaps you haven't come to that place (not
that I wish anything bad on you, of course!) because God works through
faith.

So say the Muslims. What makes you right and them wrong? You and they
look remarkably alike from the outside.

Post by michael
You're doubting this, so God can't prove himself to you. Like
I told someone else, tell God that you don't believe and to prove
himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens. That's
it! But you'll have to live according to the standard of the Bible.
Maybe you would believe in the Devil. People don't practice
witchcraft for nothing! Or, worship the Devil! Believe me, I'm not
making light of this. Evil is just as real as the Good. Well, I'm not
twisting your arm.

Most of the evil I've seen was as a direct result of religion and faith
in God. Thank you, no. You zealots do enough damage already. I won't
join you and do more.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA

PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0

Praying is like a rocking chair -- it'll give you something to do, but it
won't get you anywhere.
-- Gypsy Rose Lee

[michael]

Charles Manson, Jim Jones, and David Koresh are false prophets that
have disguised themselves with a form of godliness under the belief of
Christianity. They formed their own idea of Christianity and labeled
it as such. Just because somebody claims to be something, doesn't
mean that they are. Only God can truly see the heart because we are
part of his consciousness. Even Satan can appear as an angel of light,
according to the Bible. People have the knowledge to lie and deceive
and be something that they're not. Christians cannot do this and still
be a Christian.

The Bible is a distinction of God's law and grace. The Old Testament
was under the Law of God, which didn't work because people kept
sinning. God limited himself to people's free will. God will not
force you to believe anything that you don't want to believe and
neither should a Christian. The New Testament is under the Grace of
Jesus Christ, which we now live. The Bible teaches to love everybody
(their souls), but we don't have to like everybody. We don't have to
be around people that we don't like.

I believe you when you say, "Most of the evil I've seen was as a
direct result of religion and faith in God." Many people have given
Christianity a bad name. The Bible is not a gay-bashing book, either.
God has rules about sex and many straight people are failing that
part, too. On the other hand, most of the evil that I've seen was
from people that were not Christian. Speaking for myself, I've been
equally hurt (so far) by people inside and outside of Christianity.
There are many actions that a true Christian would not do, based on
the Bible.

[Enkidu]

Post by michael
Charles Manson, Jim Jones, and David Koresh are false prophets that
have disguised themselves with a form of godliness under the belief of
Christianity.

Yep. And I claim the Jesus, the Pope, and every preacher who ever lived
did and to this day does exactly the same thing. Prove me wrong.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
http://www.thoughts.leaddogs.org/
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA

PGP ID: 0xC4CE8CF0

"I may have my faults, but being wrong isn't one of them."

* Jimmy Hoffa

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
Charles Manson, Jim Jones, and David Koresh are false prophets

Claim. You need to back that up now.

Post by michael
that
have disguised themselves with a form of godliness under the belief of
Christianity. They formed their own idea of Christianity and labeled
it as such.

True, but so did Constantine when he created the Roman Catholic Church.
Still waiting for backup on this claim.

Post by michael
Just because somebody claims to be something, doesn't
mean that they are.

OK, you're headed in the right direction...

Post by michael
Only God can truly see the heart because we are
part of his consciousness.

<BITCHSLAP!!!> Now you've inserted your vile fantasy, and look where it

Post by michael
Even Satan can appear as an angel of light,
according to the Bible. People have the knowledge to lie and deceive
and be something that they're not. Christians cannot do this and still
be a Christian.

Blimey! Can you hear the bagpipes? Their playing your song, the No True
Scotsman dirge. Would you like some haggis? How about some mead?

<snip bibblebabble>

[bob young]

Post by Uncle Vic
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
I know there's some good Bills out there but this one's for "WHO IS
THE REAL GOD" Bill in previous posting. Man created God? I couldn't
resist to not post.

Bill responds to posts. Unlike your god...

Now why didn't i think o' that?

Come on; Bill walks, talks, breaths, invents, advises, uses more than a
tad of common sense, so now let's hear from the god o' yours. By that I
mean, not from another human being, but direct from your god.
That would make quite a change !

It would even get Bill and me groveling !

bob
Humanist Brit.

The concepts of original sin, depravity, substutionary forgiveness,
intolerance, eternal punishment, and humble worship are all beneath the
dignity of intelligent human beings and conflict with the values of
kindness and
reason. They are barbaric ideas for primitive cultures cowering in fear
and ignorance.
[Starlight2me]

Post by Uncle Vic
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011, aw Hellboy #5
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

why can't you christian nuts ever provide PHYSICAL PROOF of the existence of
your god ?

Bill asks very intelligent questions, and you christian nuts just bullshit
your way around the question and never provide any answers

[michael]

Well for crying out loud. It's about faith. We don't have to believe
in anything. If we let everybody do what they want to do as long as
they don't hurt anybody physically, emotionally and financially, then
it should be a tolerable world to live in, right? I don't think so.
There are some stupid Christians that make God look so dumb. Poor God,
he has to work through sincerity and faith. Why? See how people
treated God in the Old Testament. They didn't want to hear his audible
voice. He works differently with people today - through faith. God
didn't want to make robots. He gave us free choice to want him.

The problem is too many Christians aren't Christian. They're
self-righteous, fanatical, silly-acting people that make God look bad
so he can't work through these people to perform miracles. If you're
sincere about this, God will prove himself to you but you have to live
according to the standard of the Bible through faith. It's
understandable that you don't believe because you've probably only
seen these nutty Christians act stupid in public. Just because someone
claims to be a Christian, doesn't mean that they are Christian. I
guess that could go for anything. Tell God that you don't believe and
to prove himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens.
That's it!

[bob young]

Post by michael
Well for crying out loud. It's about faith. We don't have to believe
in anything. If we let everybody do what they want to do as long as
they don't hurt anybody physically, emotionally and financially, then
it should be a tolerable world to live in, right? I don't think so.
There are some stupid Christians that make God look so dumb. Poor God,
he has to work through sincerity and faith. Why? See how people
treated God in the Old Testament. They didn't want to hear his audible
voice. He works differently with people today - through faith. God
didn't want to make robots. He gave us free choice to want him.
The problem is too many Christians aren't Christian. They're
self-righteous, fanatical, silly-acting people that make God look bad
so he can't work through these people to perform miracles. If you're
sincere about this, God will prove himself to you but you have to live
according to the standard of the Bible through faith. It's
understandable that you don't believe because you've probably only
seen these nutty Christians act stupid in public. Just because someone
claims to be a Christian, doesn't mean that they are Christian. I
guess that could go for anything. Tell God that you don't believe and
to prove himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens.
That's it!

Eeeerm, which 'god' exactly were you referring to?

One of these?:

Ahura Mazda, Allah, Aphrodite, Ares, Athena, Apollo, Artemis, Babaluaye,
Bacchus,
Baldur, Bast, Bellona, Brahma, Brigid, Ceres, Cupid, Cerridwen, Cthulhu
Demeter, Diana, Dione, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Eleggua, , El Shaddai,
Elohim Eshu, Ereshkigal,
Frigga, Frey, Freya, Gaea, Lord Genesa, Hades, Hebe, Hera, Helios, Hel,
Hephaestus,
Hermes, Hestia, Horus, Ibeji, Ifa, Inanna, Indra, Ishana, Ishtar,
Isis, Janus, Juno, Jehovah, Jove, Jupiter, Kali. Krishna Kronos,
Korravai,
Loki, Lugh, Lord Indra, Manitou, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Mercurius,
Morrigan,
Nahuiquiahuitl, Nanahuatzin, Nephthys, Neptune, Obatala, Odin, Ogun,
Oshosi, Oshun, Osiris, Oya, Orunmila, Olokun, Olodumare, Pluto,
Persephone, Poseidon, Proserpina, Quetzalcoatl, Ra, Lord Rama, Rhea, Ras
Tafari
Saturn, Set,
Selene, Shango, Lord Siva, Tammuz, Thor, Tir, Tiw, Uranus, Venus, Vesta,
Vishnu,
Vesta, Vulcan, Wotan, Yahweh, Yemaya, Zeus, XodA.


African gods:

[Note under 'African Gods' the number devoted to 'Supremacy']

Abassi [Sky]
Abonsam [Evil]
Abora [Supreme]
Abzu [Water]
Acoran [Supreme]
Adaheli [Sun]
Adro [Sky]
Adroa [Sky]
Agassou [Panther]
Agbe-Naete [Water]
Age [Animals]
Aigamuxa [Monster]
Ajalamo[Unborn Children]
Aje [Wealth]
Ajok [Supreme]
Akonadi [Oracle]
Akongo [Supreme]
Akuj [Supreme]
Ala [Earth/Fertility]
Alatangana [Creator]
Amma [Creator]
Anansi [Trickster]
Anyiewo [Snake]
Aondo [Creator]
Apa [Creator]
Apedemak [War]
Arawa [Moon]
Arebati [Sky]
Arom [Contracts]
Arsan Duolai [Underworld]
Asase Ya [Earth]
Ashiakle [Wealth]
Asis [Sun]
Astar [Sky]
Ataa Naa

Nyongmo [Creator]
Ataokoloinona [Supreme]
Atete [Fertility]
Avrikiti [Fishermen]
Ayabba
[Ayaba] [Hearth]


Bacax [Cave]
Bagba [Wind]
Balubaal [Earth+]
Bandara [Superior Gods]
Banga [Clear water]
Behanzin [Fish]
Beher [Sea]
Bera Pennu [Vegetation]
Bo [Warriors]
Bomazi[Ancestors]
Buadza [WInd]
Buck[River]
Buku [Sky]
Bumba [Creator]


Cagn [Creator]
(!Kaggen)
Cghene [Creator]
Chiuke
(Chuku) [Creator]
Chiata [Supreme]
Chwezi [Hero]
Col [Rain]
Chikara [Sky]


Danh
(Dan Ayido Hwedo) [Snake]
Deng [Sky]
Deohako [Beans+]
Dii Mauri [Moorish Gods]
Dongo [Outer Space]
Dugbo [Earth]
Dxui [Creator]



Emeli-hi [Supreme]
Eranoranhan [Protector]
Eshu (Elegba) [Trickster]



Fa [Destiny]
Famien [Fertility]
Faro [Sky/Water]
Fidi Mukullu [Creator]



Garang and Abuk [First Humans]
Gbeni [Chief]
Gei (Gou) [Moon]
Gu [War/Smiths]
Gua [Sky]
Gulu [Supreme]
Gunab [Evil]
Guruhi [Evil]
Gurzil [Bull]
Gwalu [Rain]
Hammon [Setting Sun]
Harun and Haruna [Water Spirits]
Heitsi-Eibib [Sorcerer]
Hevioss [Thunder]
Huntin [Tree]
Huvean [Creator]



Ifa [Oracul]
Ikenga [Supreme]
Imana [Creator]
Iruwa [Sun]
Juok [Creator]
Kalumba [Creator]
Kalunga Supreme]
Katavi [Demonic]
Ka Tyeleo [Supreme]
Khebieso [Lightening]
Kho-dumo-dumo [Demon]
Kholomodumo [Monster]
Khuzwane [Creator]
Kibuka [War]
Kokola [Guardian]
Kwammang-a [Supreme]
Kwoth [Spirit]
Kyala [Creator]



Legba [Trickster]
Leza [Chief]
Libanza [Supreme]
Lisa [Chameleon]
Lyangombe[Chief]
Macardit [Demon]
Mantis [Creator]
Massim-Biambe [Creator]
Mawu [Sky]
Mawu-Lisa [Supreme Couple]
Mbotumbo [Supreme]
Medr [Earth]
Moomb [Creator]
Mon [?]
Mugasa
Mugu [Sky]
Mujaji [Rain]
Mukasa [Supreme]
Mula Djadi [Creator]
Muluku [Supreme]
Mulungu
Mungu [Creator]
Mungo (Mungu) [?]
Musa (Teaching]
Musisi [Supreme]
Mwari [Supreme]


Nampa [Personal]
Nana-Bouclou [First Gods]
Nana Buluk [Creator]
Ndjambi [Sky]
Ndriananahary [Supreme]
Nduru [Jungle]
Nenaunir [Storm]
Nesshoue [River]
Ngai ('Ngai) [Creator]
Ngewo-wa [Creator]
Ngworekara [Demon]
Niamye [Supreme]
Nkosi Yama'kosi [Supreme]
Nommo [Elemental]
Nommo [Spirit]
Nyama [Animal]
Nyambe [Supreme]
Nyambi (Nyambe) [Supreme]
Nyame
Nyami-Nyami [Guardian]
Nyankopon (Ashanti:Nyame) [Supreme]
Nyamia Ama [Supreme]
Nyasaye [Supeme]
Nzambi (Nzambi)
Mpunguo) [Supreme]
Nzame [Supreme]


Obassi Osaw [Supreme]
Obatala [Sky]
Oduduwa (Odudua) [Earth]
Ogun (Ogoun) War]
Olokula [Sea]
Olorun [Supreme]
Omumbo-Rombonga [Tree of Life]
Orahan [Supreme]
Orisa Nla [Creator]
Orishako [Agriculture]
Orunjan [Midday Sun]
Orunmila [Compassion]
Oshalla [?]
Osun [Beauty and Love]
Oya [Passion and Power]


Pemba (Bemba) Mother]
Qandisa [Demon]
Qamata[Quamta] Supreme]

Rock-Sene [Supreme]
Ruwa [Supreme]
Sagbata [Smallpox]
Sakarabru [Medicine]
Sakpata [Smallpox]
Sango [Thunder]
Shango [Thunder]
So [Lightening]


Tano [River]
Tore [Forest]
Trowu[Spirits]
Tsui'goab [Rain]
Twe [Lake]

Umvelinqangi [Creator]
Unkulunkulu [Supreme]
Unumbotte [Creator]

Waka [Rain]
Wele [Supreme]
Wulbari [Supreme]
Wuni [Supreme]


Xewioso [Thunder]
Yemaja [Creation]
Yo [Impersonal]

Zin [Water]

Table of Asian Gods:

BUDDHIST

Abhijnaraja [Physician]
Abhimukhi [One of the Bhumis]
Acala [?]
Adhimukticarya [One of the Bhumis]
Adhimuktivasita [One of the Bhumis]
Adibuddha [First]
Adidharma [Primeval]
Aizen Myo-o [Protective]
Ajaya [?]
Akasagarbha(Tibetan Nam-mkhai
Aksayajnana-Karmanda [Literature]
Aksobhya (Japanese Ashuku, Chinese A-Chu'u) [One of the Dhyani]
Amida [Savior]
Amitabha [A Dhyani]
Amitayus [Longevity]
Amoghapasa [see Avalokitesvara]
Amoghasiddhi [A Dhyani]
Anantamukhi [Literature]
Arapacana [Book and Sword]
Arcismati [Bhumis]
Arhat [A Saint]
Arthapratisamvit [Logical Analysis]
Arya-Tara [Sakti]
Asokakanta [avatar Marici]
Asokottamasri [Physician]
Astabhuja-Kurukulla [avatar Kurukulla]
Asura [Group of Demons]
Avalokitesvara(Avalokita, Lokesvara) [Dhyani Present Age]
Ayurvasita[One vasitas]

Balaparamita [Philosophy]
Bhaisajyaguru(Sman-bla, Otaci,Yao-shih-fo, Yakushi)[Physician]
Bhima[Attendant]
Bhrkuti[Female]
Bhrkuti-Tara [Mother]
Bhumi [Spiritual Spheres]
Bhutadarma [Demon Controller]
Bi-har [Protector]
Bodhidharma [Monk]
Bodhisattva (Chinese Pu-sa) [Born to be Englightened]
Buddhabodhiprabhavasita [Vasitas]
Buddhalocana [Female Buddha]
Budha [Mercury]
Butcho [?]

Chandarosana [Mahayana]
Charcika (Carcika) [Mahayana]
Chakravartin [World Ruler]
Chattrosnisa [An Usnisa]
Chaturmaharajas (Caturmaharajas) [Four Great Kings]
Chittavista [Vashitas]
Citipati [Graveyard Demons]
Cunda [Literature]
Da-shi-zhi [Bodhisattva]
Dadimunda [Temples]
Dainichi' [Purity/Wisdom]
Dakini [Demons]
Dala Kadavara [Demon]
Devaputra [Gods of Lower Rank]
Dhanada [avatar Amoghasiddhi]
Dharani [Mystical Texts]
Dharmadhatuvagisvara [Dharma]
Dharmakirtisagaraghosa [Physician]
Dharmamegha [Bhumis]
Dharmapala ,Chinese Fu Ha [Protective Dieties]
Dharmapratisamvit [Nature Analysis]
Dharmavasita [Vasitas]
Dhritarashtra (Pali Dhatarattha) [One of the 4 World Guardians]
Dhupa [Mother]
Dhupatara [Mahayana]
Dhvajagrakeyura [avatar Aksobhya]
Dhyanaparamita [Philosophy]
Dhyani-Bodhisattvas [Five Bodhisattvas]
Dhyani-Buddhas [Five Meditators]
Di-zang [Bodhisattvas of Hell]
Dvarapala [?]

Ekajata [Terrible]
Emma-o [Judges the Dead]

Fudo [WIsdom]

Guan Yin [bodhisattva]

Hariti [Ate Children]
Hayagriva [Protection]
Heruka [Protection]
Hevajra [Protection]

Ida-Ten [Law/Monestaries]

Jambhala [avatar Vausravana]
Janguli [Snakebite cure]
Jian Lao [Earth/Permanence]
Jizo [Compassion]
Juichimen [Mercy]

Kali devia [avatar Lha-mo]

Kannon [Japanese bodhisattva]
Khasarpana(Khasarpana-Lokesvara) [Indian bodhisattva]
Ki Fudo [avatar Fudo-Myo-o]
Krodhadevatas [Inspire Terror]
Ksitigarbha [One of 8 bodhisattva]
Kuan-yin (Kwannon) [Mercy]
Kujaku Myoo [Esoteric]
Kurukulla [?]

Locana [?]

Mahasthamaprata [Chinese bodhisattva]
Maitreya [Future]
Manjughosa [Nepalese bodhisattva]
Manjusri [bodhisattva]
Mara [Evil]
Marici [Sun]
Mi-lo Fo (Pu-Sa) [Chinese bodhisattva
Miroku [Japanese bodhisattva
Mo-Li [Protects Temples]

Padmanartesvara [avatar Bodhisattva Avalokitesvara]
Pancaraksa[5 Goddesses]
Pandara [?]
Paramasva [?]
Parnasavari [?]
Prajna [Femaleness]
Prajnaparamita [Buddhist Text]
Ran-deng [Beggar and Future Buddha]
Ratnapani [Dhyani-Bodhisattva]
Ratnasambhava [Dhyani-Buddha]
Remanta [King of the Horse gods]

Sakyamuni [Japanese]
Samantabhadra [Bodhisattvas]
Saptaksara [avatar Heruka]
Shakra [King of the Gods]
Ssu Ta T'ien Wang [Kings of Heaven]
Sumbharaja [Buddhist Krodhadevata]

Tennin (Tennyo) [angels]

Usnisavijaya [?]

Vairocana [Dhyani-Buddhas]
Vaisravana (Pali Vessavana, Chinese Do Wen) [Guards World]
Vajrabhairava [?]
Vajrapani [Bodhisattvas]
Vajrasattva [Nepal Dhyani-Buddha]
Vajravarahi [?]
Vajrayogini [Initiation]
Vajrayogini [Riches]
Vidyadharas [?]
Vidyujjvalakarali [?]
Vighnantaka [?]
Virudhaka (Pali Virulha, Chinese Zheng Zhang) [Guards World]
Virupaksa (Pali Virupakkha, Chinese Guand Mu) [Guards Western Heaven]
Visvapani [Dhyani-Bodhisattva]

We-to [Divine General]

Yakushi Nyorai [Healing]
Yama [?]
Yamantaka [Krodhadevatas]

Zhu Dian (Zhu Tian) [Chinese Buddhist gods]

CHINESE GODS

Ao [Sea]
Awun [Destruction]

Ba [Drought]
Ba Gua [Basis of Divination]
Bo Hsian [Taoist]

Cai-Shen [Riches]
Can Cong [Silkworms]
Cao Guo-jiu [Actors]
Chang Fei [War]
Chang Hs'ien [Children]
Chang Kuo-lao [?]
Ch'ang E (Ch'ang-o Huang E) [Moon]
Chang Tao Ling [Afterlife]
Cheng-huang (Ch'eng Huang) [Guardians]
Chen Jen [Spiritual Beings]
Cheng San-Kung [Fishermen]
Cheng Yuan Ho (Ch'ang-o Huang E) [Buskers]
Chih Nu [Weavers]
Chih Sung-Tzu (Chi Sung Tzu) [Rain]
Chih-Yu [Inventor]
Ch'in-Shu-Pao [Guardian]
Chou Wang [Sodomy]
Chu-Chuan Shen [Pigsties]
Chu Jung [Fire]
Chu Lung [Day/Night]
Chung K'uei [Afterlife]
Chung-li Ch'uan [Immortal]
Confucius [Philosopher]

Di Zhang Xia [?]
Dong-yo Da-di [Helps Sky God]

Erh-Lang [Guardian]

Fan-K'uei [Butchers]
Fei Lien (Fei Lian) [Wind]
Feng-Huang (Hoang-female Phuong-male) [Many Meanings]
Feng Po (Feng-Po) [Human form of the wind]
Feng P'o-p'o (Feng-Po-Po) [Female wind]
Fo [Buddha]
Fu His [Taught Humanity]
Fu Hsing [Happiness]
Fu Shen [Happiness]
Fu-Shou-Lu [Collection of Gods]
Fu-xi [Hero]

Gao Yao (Ting-jian) [Judgement]
Gong Gong [Common Workers]
Gou Mang and Ru Shou [Messengers]
Guan Di (Kuan Ti) [War/Fortune Telling]
Gui Xian [Demon]

Han Hsiang [Immortal]
Han Xiang-zi [Immortal]
He Bo (Bing-yi) [Rivers]
Heng E (Change-e) [Moon]
He Xian-gu [Immortal]
Heng-Ha-Erh-Chiang [Temples]
Heng-o [Moon]
Ho Hsien-ku [Immortal]
Ho Po [River]
Hou Chi [Harvest]
Hou I [Archer]
Hou T'u [Earth]
Hsien [Taoists]
Hsi Ho [Sun's Creator]
Hsi Wang Mu [Guardian]
Hsuan-T'ien-Shang-Ti [Dark Heaven]
Hua Hsien [Flower]
Huang-di (Huang Ti) (Shun) [Hero]
Huang Fei-hu (Fei) [Mountain]
Hu-Shen [Hail]

I [Bowmen]
Infoniwoo [Generation]
I-Ti [Wine]

K'ai Lu Shen [Purges Evil]
Kuan Yu [War]
K'uei Hsing [Examinations]

Lan Cai-he [Immortal]
Lao T'ien Yeh [Supreme]
Lao-Tzu (Lao-zi) [Philosopher]
Lei Kung [Storm]
Lei-zi [Thunder]
Li [Fire]
Li Tie-guai [Immortal]
Liu [Crops]
Lu Dong-bin (Lu Yan) [Immortal]
Lu-Hsing [Salaries/Employees]
Lung Wang [Dragon King]
Lupan [Carpenters]

Ma-Mien [Bureaucrat]
Meng (Meng P'o) [Underworld]
Meng-T'ien [Writing Brush]
Men Shen [Doors, includes sometimes Wei Cheng]
Mu Gong [Immortals]

Niu-Y'oun [Police]
Nu Gua (Nu Kua, Nu Wa) [Creator and Marriage]

O-Mi-T'o Fo [Amitabha]

Pa [Drought]
Pa-Cha [Anti-locusts]
Pa-Hsien [Eight Immortals]
P'an-Chin-Lien [Prostitues]
'P'an Ku (Panku, Pangu) [Cosmos]
Pi-Hsia-Yuan-Chun [Childbirth]
Puhsien [Sun]

Ran-deng [Future Buddha]

San Ch'inga [Three Taos]
Shang Di (Shang Ti) [Supreme]
She Chi (Thu) [Earth]
Shen [Spirit]
Sheng Jen [Holy]
Shen-nong(Shen Nung) [Hero]
Shen-T'u [Guardian]
Shen Yi [Sun]
Shiang Ku [Magician]
Shih-Tien Yen-Wang [Committe of Ten]
Shou-Hsing [Longevity]
Shou Lao (Shou Xing Lao Tou-zi) [Long Life]
Shou-Ts'ang [Servant]
Shui-Fu [Water]
Shui-Kuan [Defender]
Ssu Ming [Life and Death]
Sung-Chiang [Theives]
Sun Hou-Tzu [Monkey]
Sun Hou-zi [Apes]
Sun-Pin [Cobblers]

T'ai I [High]
Tai-sui-xing [Time]
Tai-yi [Sky]
T'ai Yueh Ta Ti (Tung-Yueh-Ta-Ti, T'ai-Yo, Ta-Ti) [Peak]
Thu [Earth]
Tian [Sky]
Tian-zhu [Catholic]
Tien (T'ien) [Sky]
Tien-Hou (T'ien Fei) [Heaven]
T'ien-Kuan [Happiness]
T'ien Lung [Dragon]
Tien Mu [Lightening]
Tien-Wang (Mo-Li) [Kings]
Ti-Kuan [Foregiveness]
Ti Nu (Ti-ya) [Earth]
Ti-Tsang-Wang-Pu-Sa [Mercy]
Ti Yu [Afterlife]
Tou Nu [North Star]
Ts'ai-Lun [Stationers]
Ts'ai Shen [Wealth]
Tsan [Demons]
Ts'ang Chien [Hearth]
Tsao Shen [?]
Tsao-Wang [Hearth]
Tu [Earth]
Tung Wang Kung [Ruled Male Immortals]
T'u-ti (Ti-Ti) [Locality]

Wang [Palace Door]
Wang-Mu-Niang-Niang [Guardian]
Wen Ch'ang (Wen-Chang-Ta-Ti) [Literature]
Wen-Shu Yen-K'ung [Manjushri]
Wen Pu [Epidemics]
Wu Ti [Myth]


Xian [Spirits]
Xi-Wang-mu [Immortality]

Yama [Seventh hell]
Yan-lo (Yan Wang) [Underworld Prince]
Yao [Wind Conqueror]
Yao-shi-fo [Physician]
Yao Wang [Medicine]
Yeng-Wang-Yeh [Death]
Yen Wang (Yen Lo) [Underworld Judge]
Yin and Yang [Male and Female]
Yo Fei [War]
Yu-Chiang [Ocean Winds]
Yu-di (Yu Huang) [Supreme]
Yueh Fei [War]
Yu Huang (Yu-Huang-Shang-Ti) [High]
Yun T'ung [Clouds]
Yu-qiang [Sea]
Yu Shih [Rain]
Yu-tzu [Rain]

Zao Jun [Kitchen]
Zhang Guo-lao [Immortal]
Zhong-Kui [Literature and Examinations]
Zhong-li Quan [Immortal]

[Sources: Brief History of Ancient Chinese Mythology]


Finnish Gods:


Ahto [Water]
Akka [Harvest]

Egres [Vegetation/Fertility]

Hiisi [Forest/Evil]

Ilma [Air]
Ilmarinen [Sky]
Inmar [Sky]

Juma [Sky]
Jumala (Mader-Atcha, Ukk) [Thunder+]

Kalevanpojat [Demons]
Kalma [Death]
Kekri [Fertility Feast]
Kipu-Tytto [Illness]
Kondos [Sowing Crops]
Kuu [Moon]

Lemminkainen [Hero]
Louhi [Sorcery/Evil]
Loviatar [Disease]
Luonnotar [Creator]

Madderakka [Dwarves]
Maahiset [Dwarves]

Naaki [Water]
Nyrckes [?]

Olmai (Olmay) [Divine properties]

Pajainen [?]
Pajonn [Thunder]
Para [Goblin Like]
Pellonpekko [Barley]

Raudna [?]
Rutu [Devil]

Sampsa [Vegetation]
Seides [Stones]

Rauni [?]

Tapio [Forest]
Tiermes [Thunder]
Tuoni [Underworld
Tursas [Monster]

Ukko (Isainen) [Thunder]

Vainamoinen [Hero]
Veralden-radien [World Pillars]

Waralden Olmai [World]

JAPANESE GODS


Aji-Suki-Taka-Hi-Kone (Aji-Shiki-Taka-Hiko-Ne) [Thunder]
Ama-No-Minakanushi-No-Kumi [Pole Star]
Ame-No-Oshido-Mimi [Refusal]
Ama-No-Uzume [Fertility]
Ama-Tsu-Kami [Heavenly Gods]
Amatsu Mikaboshi [Evil]
Ame-No-Hohi [Disappeared]
Ame-No-Wakahiko [Ruled Earth]

Bimbo-Gami [Poverty]
Bishamon [War]

Chimata-No-Kami [Rain/Sea]

Daikoku [Wealth]

Ebisu [Labor]

Fuchi [Fire]
Fukurokuju (Fukuro kuju) [Wisdom]
Futsunushi [Lightening]

Gozu-Tenno [Plague]

Haya-Ji (Haya-Tsu-Muji-No-Kami) [Whirlwind]
Hikohohodemi [Hero]
Hinokagutsuchi [Fire]
Hiruko [Morning Sun]
Hoderi [?]
Hisa-Me [Devils]
Ho-Masubi (Kagu Zuchi) [Fire]
Hosuseri [?]
Hotei [Laughter]

Inari [Prosperity]
Izanagi [Creator]
Izanami [Mother]

Jikoku [Guardians]
Jimmu Tenno [Founder]
Jurojin (Jorojin) [Longevity]

Kagu-tsuchi [Fire]
Kamado-gami [Hearth]
Kami [Divinities]
Kami-Musubi (Kami-mi-masubi) [?]
Kami-Nari [Thunder]
Kamui [Sky]
Kappa [Water]
Kawa-No-Kami [Rivers]
Kishijoten [Luck]
Kishimojin [Demon]
Komoku [South]
Kompira [Wealth]
Kono-Hana-Sakuya-Hime (Kono-no-hana-saku-ya-hime) [?]
Kono-Hana-Sakuya-Hime Kuni-Toko-tachi [First]
Kuni-Tsu-Kami [Earth]
Kura-Okami [Rain/Snow]

Nai-No-Kami [Earthquakes]
Naka-Yama-Tsu-Mi [Mountain Slopes]
Ningyo [Mermaid]
Ninigi [Ruler Earth]

O-Kuni-Nushi (Okuninushi) [Medicine/Sorcery]
Onamuji [Earth]
Omiwa [Protective]
Oni [Demons]
O-Wata-Tsumi [Sea]
O-Yama-Tsu-Mi (O-yama-tsuni) [Mountain]

Raiden [Thunder]
Ryo-Wo [Sea]
Ryujin (Ryugin) [Thunder/Rain]

Sae-No-Kami [Roads]

Sengen-Sama [Guarded Holy Moutain]
Sennin [Immortals]
Shichi-Fukujin [Luck]
Shiko-Me [Devils]
Shine-Tsu-Hiko [Wind]
Shitatera-Hime [?]
Shi-tenno [Cardinal Direction Guardians]
Shojo [Satyrs]
Soko-No-Kuni [Underworld]
Suitengu [Sea]
Sukuna-bikone (Suku-na-biko) [Hot Springs]
Shoki [Enemy of Devils]
Susanowo (Susanoo, Susa-no-wo) [Storms]
Takamimusubi (Taka-mi-masubi) [Royal Family]
Takemikadzuchi [Thunder]
Take-Mi-Musubi [Sun]
Taki-Tsu-Hiko [Rain]
Tatsuta-hime [Autumn]
Ten-gu (Tengu) [Mountain/Forest]
Tenjin (Temmangu) [Learning/Calligraphy]
Tsuki-Yomi (Tsukiyomi) [Moon]

Uji-gami [Ancestors]
Uke-Mochi-No-Kami (Ukemochi, Waka-Uke-Nomi, Toyo-Uke-Bime) [Fertility and
Food]
Uzume [Mirth]

Wakahiru-me [Rising Sun]\
Wata-tsu-mi [Sea]

Yabune [House]

Zocho [South]

Shinto Amaterasu [Sun]

Ama-Tsu-Mara [Smiths]

Ame-No-Kagase-Wo [Astral]
Ame-No-Mi-Kumari-No-Kami [Water]
Amenominakanushi (Ame-No-Minaka-Nushi-No-Kami) [Supreme]
Am-No-Tanabata-Hime-No-Mikoto [Weavers]
Ame-No-Toko-Tachi-No-Kami [Elemental]
Ame-no-uzume [Dancers]

Benten (Benten-San, Benzaiten, Benzaiten) [Eloquence+]

Fujin [Wind]

Hachiman [War]
Ho-musubi [Fire]

Kami [Idols]

SOUTH ASIAN GODS

Cao Dai(Chinese: Gao-Tai) [Supreme]

Debata [?]

Empung Luminuut [?]

Hainuwele [?]

Hananim [Sky]

Hmin [Ague]

Karei [Supreme]
Kinharingan [Creator]
Kud [Evil]

Laseo [Sun]
Lature Dano [Supreme]
Lowalangi(Lowalani) [World Above]

Mahatala (Mahataral) [Supreme?]
Ma-zu [?]

Nanmata (Namite) [Primeval]
Narbrooi [Woodlands]
Nemu [Primodial]

Palk [Sun]
Puang Matowa [Sky]
Pulug [Thunder]

Reahu [Dark Demon]
Rigenmucha [Supreme]

Silewe Nazarata [?]
Sirao [First]

Ta Pedn [?]
Tnong [Sun]
Tumbrenjak [Original Man]

Upulevo [Sun]

Wunekau [Sun]

CENRAL AND WEST ASIAN GODS

Abyrga [Snake]
Afi [Rain/Thunderstorms]
Aitvaras [Evil]
Alardi [Spirit]
Aralo [Agriculutre]
Armaz [Supreme]
Auseklis (Ausrine) [Stellar]

Baba [Spirit]
Baba Yaga (Jezi-Baba) [Ogress]
Bagvarti [?]
Bangputys [Sea]
Bannik [Baths]
Bagisht [Flood/Prosperity]
Barastir (Barastaer) [Underworld]
Bardha [Elves]
Beg-tse (Cam-srin) [War]
Beng [Satan]
Biegg-Olmai [Wind]
Bogatyri [Heroes]
Boldogasszony (Kisboldogasszony) [Protector Women/Children]
Bolla (Bullar) [Demon]
Buga [Supreme]
Bukura e dheut
[Good Spirit]
Bukuri e qiellit [Jehovah]
Byelobog (Bielbog) [?]
Byelun [?]

Chernobo(Czarnobog, Czerneboch, Cernobog) [?]
Chors [Sun]

Dabog [Sun]
Deive [Stone Spirits]
Dieva deli [?]
Dievini [Less Known Gods]
Dievs [Sky]
Djall [Devil]
Domovoi (Domovoy) [Household]
Donbittir [Water/Fish]
Drag-gshed [Eight Terrible Gods]
Dud [Heavenly Spirit]
Dvorovoi [Courtyard]
Dyavo [Demons]

En [?]
Erlik [King of the Dead]
Es [Sky]

Fatit [Destiny]
Fene [Demon]

Gabija (Gabieta, Gabeta) [Fire]
Gabjauja [Corn]
Giltine [Death]
Guta [Demon]

Hadur [War]
Himavat [Himalayas]
Horagalles [War]

Isdustaya and Papaya [Fate]
Isten [Supreme]

Jagaubis [Fire]
Jarovit (Gerovitus) [War]
Jessis [avatar Jupiter]
Jumis [Fertility]
Juras Mate [Water]

Kaka-Guia [Funerary]
Kalvis [Smith]
Karta [Fate]
Kaukas [?]
Khors [Health/Hunting]
Khyung-gai mGo-can [?]
Kikimora [Household]
K'op'ala [Protective]
Kukuth (Kukudhi) [Sickness]
Kulshedra (Kucedre) [Demon]
Kun-tu-bzan-po [Chief Bon]
Kupala [Water/Magic/Herbs]
Kurdalaegon [Blacksmiths]

Laima [Fate]
Lamaria [Hearth]
Laskowice (Leshcia) [Forest]
Lauka Mate [Fields/Fertility]
Laume [Fairy]
Leshy [Forest]
Lha [Bon Gods]
Lhamo [?]
Ljeschi (Lychie) [Fauns and Satyrs]
Ljubi [Demon]

Manzasiri [Primeval]
Mate [Mother]
Mati Syra Zemlya [Earth]
Medeine (Mejdejn) [Woods]
Meness [Moon]
Menulis [Moon]
Meza Mate [Nature]
Mirsa [Light]
Mokos [Fertility]
Mu (rMu) [Heavenly]
Muma Padura [Wood]
Myesyats (Czarnobog, Czerneboch, Cernobog) [Moon]

Nang Lha [Household]
Nari [Demon]
Nari [Sky]
Num [Sky]

Odqan [Fire]
Ora [Protective]
Ordog [Dark]

Pekar (Pehar) [Demon]
Peko [Barley]
Perendi [Jehovah]
Perit [Mountain Spirits]
Perkons [Thunder]
Perkunas [Thunder]
Perun (Peroun) [Thunder]
Polevik [Field]
Poludnitsa [Field]
Pon [Sky]
Porenutius (Porevit) [?]
Preas Eyn [?]
Preas Eyssaur [Destructive]
Preas Prohm [Primeval]

Prende (Prenne) [Love]
Psezpolnica (Polish Poludnica) [Midday]
Pugu [Sun]

Qormusta (Chormusta) [High]

Rugievit [War]
Rusalki (Rusalka) [Water/Woodlands]

Safa [Weapens]
Sanda [?]
Sarkany [Weather]
Saule [Sun]
Saules meitas [?]
Selardi [Moon]
Shen-Lha-od-dkar [Bon]
Shen-rab [Founder Bon]
Sipe Gyalmo [Bon]
Shiwini [Sun]
Shosshu [Smiths]
Siwini [Sun]
Srat [Demon]
Sri [Demon]
Sridevi [?]
Stribog [Winds]
Svantevit (Svantoveit, Svantovitus) [War/Agriculture]
Svarog [Sky]
Syen [Guardian]
Stihi [Demon]

Teljavelik [Heavenly Smith]
Telyaveli [Smiths]
Tengri [Heavenly Beings]
Tesheba [Weather]
Thab-lha [Hearth]
Triglav (Trigelawus) [War]

Uacilla [Thunder/Rain]
Ulgen [Creator]
Urme [Fate]
Usins [?]

Vadatajs [Evil]
Vampire [Soul of Dead]
Veela [Kindess]
Veja mate [Winds]
Veles (Volos) [Underworld]
Velnias [Devil]
Velu mate [Dead]
Verbti [Fire/North Wind]
Vila [Water]
Vilkacis (Lithuanian Vilkatas) [Werewolf]
Vlkodlaks (Vookodlaks) [Werewolf]
Vodnik [Demon]
Vodyanoi [Water]
Volos (Volusu) [Cattle]

We [Supreme]

Xhindi [Spirits]

Yarilo [Love]

Zaltys [Grass Snake]
Zemepatis (Zemempatis) [Supreme]
Zemes mate [Mother]
Zemyna (Zemyneles) [Earth]
Zorya [Guardian]
Zvezda Dennitsa and Zvezda Vechernyaya [Morning and Evening Star]



SIBERIAN GODS

Ai Tojon [Light]
Ajysyt [Mother]
Anky-Kele [Sea]
Ayi [Creator]

Hittavainen, Hittauanin [Hare-Hunters]
Hinkon [Death Demon]

K'daai [Fire Demon]
Kaltes [The Goddess]
Ke'lets [Death Demon]
Kurkil [Creator]
Kutkinnaku [Good Spirit]

Mayin [Supreme]

Picvu'cin [Hunting/Wild Animals]

Shurdi [Thunderstorms]

Tomam [Bird]
Tomor(Tomorr) [Father Creator]

Xucau [Supreme]

Ye'loje (Pugu) [Sun]

[michael]

I know, that's a confusing part for many people but the KJV Bible says
that "Jehovah" God is the only God that exists. There are no other
gods. However, Jehovah God has more than one name, like Adonai. Which
by the way, wasn't on your list. Since it's the same person, that's
okay. There's a reason that Christianity is the world's number one
religion - miracles and healings confirmed by doctors. If the Bible is
fake, it would be the greatest joke ever played on the human race.
Besides, everyone that claims to have received a miracle from God
would be telling a lie, which would be many, many, many people -
myself included.

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
I know, that's a confusing part for many people but the KJV Bible says
that "Jehovah" God is the only God that exists.

What exactly makes the bible right, over say, the Quran? The Book of
Mormon? Egyptian mythology said that Set was the main god, who killed
his brother Osiris, who came back to life and married Isis, giving birth
to a god-man named Horus. When an Egyptian king died, he was absorbed
into Osiris, and the new king became the earthly Horus. Is there any
evidence for any of this outside of the Egyptian myth? No, of course
not. Now, what evidence can you offer outside of your Christian myth for
your gods?

Post by michael
There are no other
gods.

On the contrary, there are thousands worshiped today.

Post by michael
However, Jehovah God has more than one name, like Adonai. Which
by the way, wasn't on your list. Since it's the same person, that's
okay.

Dr. Robert Schuller made this claim once, that all gods were really just
one god by a lot of different names. Of course, the god was his god, and
all the peoples of the world really worshiped his god when they worshiped
their god. Can you imagine how many stewardessess he would have beaten
up if some muslim said that about him?

Post by michael
There's a reason that Christianity is the world's number one
religion - miracles and healings confirmed by doctors.

Bwaaaaahahahahaha! First of all, 2/3 of the world's population are NOT
Christian. Second, doctors practice bedside manner. If the patient's
family wants to believe their loved one's cancer remission was a miracle,
he's not about to stand in their way.

Post by michael
If the Bible is
fake, it would be the greatest joke ever played on the human race.

That's the most intelligent thing you've said this entire evening.

Post by michael
Besides, everyone that claims to have received a miracle from God
would be telling a lie, which would be many, many, many people -
myself included.

At least you can admit it. Bra-vo.

[Michelle Malkin]

Post by michael
I know, that's a confusing part for many people but the KJV Bible says
that "Jehovah" God is the only God that exists. There are no other
gods. However, Jehovah God has more than one name, like Adonai. Which
by the way, wasn't on your list. Since it's the same person, that's
okay. There's a reason that Christianity is the world's number one
religion - miracles and healings confirmed by doctors. If the Bible is
fake, it would be the greatest joke ever played on the human race.
Besides, everyone that claims to have received a miracle from God
would be telling a lie, which would be many, many, many people -
myself included.

Who and what are you responding to?

[michael]

There's a thread that's running on several newsgroups. Maybe it's not
all showing up in your system? Not sure. They're running in:

alt.atheism,alt.bible,alt.religion,alt.religion.christian

in case you wondered.

[Uncle Vic]

Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet michael (nospam-

Post by michael
There's a thread that's running on several newsgroups. Maybe it's not
alt.atheism,alt.bible,alt.religion,alt.religion.christian
in case you wondered.

What Michele is getting at is that you don't quote what you are responding
to in the thread. That makes things difficult for someone jumping into the
thread without reading each and every post leading to your reply.

[AcesLucky]

Post by bob young

Post by michael
Well for crying out loud. It's about faith. We don't have to believe
in anything. If we let everybody do what they want to do as long as
they don't hurt anybody physically, emotionally and financially, then
it should be a tolerable world to live in, right? I don't think so.
There are some stupid Christians that make God look so dumb. Poor God,
he has to work through sincerity and faith. Why? See how people
treated God in the Old Testament. They didn't want to hear his audible
voice. He works differently with people today - through faith. God
didn't want to make robots. He gave us free choice to want him.
The problem is too many Christians aren't Christian. They're
self-righteous, fanatical, silly-acting people that make God look bad
so he can't work through these people to perform miracles. If you're
sincere about this, God will prove himself to you but you have to live
according to the standard of the Bible through faith. It's
understandable that you don't believe because you've probably only
seen these nutty Christians act stupid in public. Just because someone
claims to be a Christian, doesn't mean that they are Christian. I
guess that could go for anything. Tell God that you don't believe and
to prove himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens.
That's it!

Eeeerm, which 'god' exactly were you referring to?

Here's Bill right here... not in the first list...but the second...under
"Bill"!

Eeeerm, which 'god' exactly were you referring to?

One of these?:

Ahura Mazda, Allah, Aphrodite, Ares, Athena, Apollo, Artemis, Babaluaye,
Bacchus,
Baldur, Bast, Bellona, Brahma, Brigid, Ceres, Cupid, Cerridwen, Cthulhu
Demeter, Diana, Dione, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Eleggua, , El Shaddai,
Elohim Eshu, Ereshkigal,
Frigga, Frey, Freya, Gaea, Lord Genesa, Hades, Hebe, Hera, Helios, Hel,
Hephaestus,
Hermes, Hestia, Horus, Ibeji, Ifa, Inanna, Indra, Ishana, Ishtar,
Isis, Janus, Juno, Jehovah, Jove, Jupiter, Kali. Krishna Kronos,
Korravai,
Loki, Lugh, Lord Indra, Manitou, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Mercurius,
Morrigan,
Nahuiquiahuitl, Nanahuatzin, Nephthys, Neptune, Obatala, Odin, Ogun,
Oshosi, Oshun, Osiris, Oya, Orunmila, Olokun, Olodumare, Pluto,
Persephone, Poseidon, Proserpina, Quetzalcoatl, Ra, Lord Rama, Rhea, Ras
Tafari
Saturn, Set,
Selene, Shango, Lord Siva, Tammuz, Thor, Tir, Tiw, Uranus, Venus, Vesta,
Vishnu,
Vesta, Vulcan, Wotan, Yahweh, Yemaya, Zeus, XodA.


African gods:

[Note under 'African Gods' the number devoted to 'Supremacy']

Abassi [Sky]
Abonsam [Evil]
Abora [Supreme]
Abzu [Water]
Acoran [Supreme]
Adaheli [Sun]
Adro [Sky]
Adroa [Sky]
Agassou [Panther]
Agbe-Naete [Water]
Age [Animals]
Aigamuxa [Monster]
Ajalamo[Unborn Children]
Aje [Wealth]
Ajok [Supreme]
Akonadi [Oracle]
Akongo [Supreme]
Akuj [Supreme]
Ala [Earth/Fertility]
Alatangana [Creator]
Amma [Creator]
Anansi [Trickster]
Anyiewo [Snake]
Aondo [Creator]
Apa [Creator]
Apedemak [War]
Arawa [Moon]
Arebati [Sky]
Arom [Contracts]
Arsan Duolai [Underworld]
Asase Ya [Earth]
Ashiakle [Wealth]
Asis [Sun]
Astar [Sky]
Ataa Naa

Nyongmo [Creator]
Ataokoloinona [Supreme]
Atete [Fertility]
Avrikiti [Fishermen]
Ayabba
[Ayaba] [Hearth]


Bacax [Cave]
Bagba [Wind]
Balubaal [Earth+]
Bandara [Superior Gods]
Banga [Clear water]
Behanzin [Fish]
Beher [Sea]
Bera Pennu [Vegetation]
Bill [Intellectual Giant and Myth Killer]
Bo [Warriors]
Bomazi[Ancestors]
Buadza [WInd]
Buck[River]
Buku [Sky]
Bumba [Creator]


Cagn [Creator]
(!Kaggen)
Cghene [Creator]
Chiuke
(Chuku) [Creator]
Chiata [Supreme]
Chwezi [Hero]
Col [Rain]
Chikara [Sky]

[bob young]

Post by AcesLucky

Post by bob young

Post by michael
Well for crying out loud. It's about faith. We don't have to believe
in anything. If we let everybody do what they want to do as long as
they don't hurt anybody physically, emotionally and financially, then
it should be a tolerable world to live in, right? I don't think so.
There are some stupid Christians that make God look so dumb. Poor God,
he has to work through sincerity and faith. Why? See how people
treated God in the Old Testament. They didn't want to hear his audible
voice. He works differently with people today - through faith. God
didn't want to make robots. He gave us free choice to want him.
The problem is too many Christians aren't Christian. They're
self-righteous, fanatical, silly-acting people that make God look bad
so he can't work through these people to perform miracles. If you're
sincere about this, God will prove himself to you but you have to live
according to the standard of the Bible through faith. It's
understandable that you don't believe because you've probably only
seen these nutty Christians act stupid in public. Just because someone
claims to be a Christian, doesn't mean that they are Christian. I
guess that could go for anything. Tell God that you don't believe and
to prove himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens.
That's it!

Eeeerm, which 'god' exactly were you referring to?

Here's Bill right here... not in the first list...but the second...under
"Bill"!

I guess you are using this example to illustrate how human beings have made
up all of their gods

Post by AcesLucky
Eeeerm, which 'god' exactly were you referring to?
Ahura Mazda, Allah, Aphrodite, Ares, Athena, Apollo, Artemis, Babaluaye,
Bacchus,
Baldur, Bast, Bellona, Brahma, Brigid, Ceres, Cupid, Cerridwen, Cthulhu
Demeter, Diana, Dione, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Eleggua, , El Shaddai,
Elohim Eshu, Ereshkigal,
Frigga, Frey, Freya, Gaea, Lord Genesa, Hades, Hebe, Hera, Helios, Hel,
Hephaestus,
Hermes, Hestia, Horus, Ibeji, Ifa, Inanna, Indra, Ishana, Ishtar,
Isis, Janus, Juno, Jehovah, Jove, Jupiter, Kali. Krishna Kronos,
Korravai,
Loki, Lugh, Lord Indra, Manitou, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Mercurius,
Morrigan,
Nahuiquiahuitl, Nanahuatzin, Nephthys, Neptune, Obatala, Odin, Ogun,
Oshosi, Oshun, Osiris, Oya, Orunmila, Olokun, Olodumare, Pluto,
Persephone, Poseidon, Proserpina, Quetzalcoatl, Ra, Lord Rama, Rhea, Ras
Tafari
Saturn, Set,
Selene, Shango, Lord Siva, Tammuz, Thor, Tir, Tiw, Uranus, Venus, Vesta,
Vishnu,
Vesta, Vulcan, Wotan, Yahweh, Yemaya, Zeus, XodA.
[Note under 'African Gods' the number devoted to 'Supremacy']
Abassi [Sky]
Abonsam [Evil]
Abora [Supreme]
Abzu [Water]
Acoran [Supreme]
Adaheli [Sun]
Adro [Sky]
Adroa [Sky]
Agassou [Panther]
Agbe-Naete [Water]
Age [Animals]
Aigamuxa [Monster]
Ajalamo[Unborn Children]
Aje [Wealth]
Ajok [Supreme]
Akonadi [Oracle]
Akongo [Supreme]
Akuj [Supreme]
Ala [Earth/Fertility]
Alatangana [Creator]
Amma [Creator]
Anansi [Trickster]
Anyiewo [Snake]
Aondo [Creator]
Apa [Creator]
Apedemak [War]
Arawa [Moon]
Arebati [Sky]
Arom [Contracts]
Arsan Duolai [Underworld]
Asase Ya [Earth]
Ashiakle [Wealth]
Asis [Sun]
Astar [Sky]
Ataa Naa
Nyongmo [Creator]
Ataokoloinona [Supreme]
Atete [Fertility]
Avrikiti [Fishermen]
Ayabba
[Ayaba] [Hearth]
Bacax [Cave]
Bagba [Wind]
Balubaal [Earth+]
Bandara [Superior Gods]
Banga [Clear water]
Behanzin [Fish]
Beher [Sea]
Bera Pennu [Vegetation]
Bill [Intellectual Giant and Myth Killer]
Bo [Warriors]
Bomazi[Ancestors]
Buadza [WInd]
Buck[River]
Buku [Sky]
Bumba [Creator]
Cagn [Creator]
(!Kaggen)
Cghene [Creator]
Chiuke
(Chuku) [Creator]
Chiata [Supreme]
Chwezi [Hero]
Col [Rain]
Chikara [Sky]

[AcesLucky]

Post by bob young

Post by AcesLucky

Post by bob young

Post by michael
Well for crying out loud. It's about faith. We don't have to believe
in anything. If we let everybody do what they want to do as long as
they don't hurt anybody physically, emotionally and financially, then
it should be a tolerable world to live in, right? I don't think so.
There are some stupid Christians that make God look so dumb. Poor God,
he has to work through sincerity and faith. Why? See how people
treated God in the Old Testament. They didn't want to hear his audible
voice. He works differently with people today - through faith. God
didn't want to make robots. He gave us free choice to want him.
The problem is too many Christians aren't Christian. They're
self-righteous, fanatical, silly-acting people that make God look bad
so he can't work through these people to perform miracles. If you're
sincere about this, God will prove himself to you but you have to live
according to the standard of the Bible through faith. It's
understandable that you don't believe because you've probably only
seen these nutty Christians act stupid in public. Just because someone
claims to be a Christian, doesn't mean that they are Christian. I
guess that could go for anything. Tell God that you don't believe and
to prove himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens.
That's it!

Eeeerm, which 'god' exactly were you referring to?

Here's Bill right here... not in the first list...but the second...under
"Bill"!

I guess you are using this example to illustrate how human beings have made
up all of their gods

As far as I can tell.

Post by bob young

Post by AcesLucky
Eeeerm, which 'god' exactly were you referring to?
Ahura Mazda, Allah, Aphrodite, Ares, Athena, Apollo, Artemis, Babaluaye,
Bacchus,
Baldur, Bast, Bellona, Brahma, Brigid, Ceres, Cupid, Cerridwen, Cthulhu
Demeter, Diana, Dione, Dionysus, Eris, Eos, Eleggua, , El Shaddai,
Elohim Eshu, Ereshkigal,
Frigga, Frey, Freya, Gaea, Lord Genesa, Hades, Hebe, Hera, Helios, Hel,
Hephaestus,
Hermes, Hestia, Horus, Ibeji, Ifa, Inanna, Indra, Ishana, Ishtar,
Isis, Janus, Juno, Jehovah, Jove, Jupiter, Kali. Krishna Kronos,
Korravai,
Loki, Lugh, Lord Indra, Manitou, Mars, Mercury, Minerva, Mercurius,
Morrigan,
Nahuiquiahuitl, Nanahuatzin, Nephthys, Neptune, Obatala, Odin, Ogun,
Oshosi, Oshun, Osiris, Oya, Orunmila, Olokun, Olodumare, Pluto,
Persephone, Poseidon, Proserpina, Quetzalcoatl, Ra, Lord Rama, Rhea, Ras
Tafari
Saturn, Set,
Selene, Shango, Lord Siva, Tammuz, Thor, Tir, Tiw, Uranus, Venus, Vesta,
Vishnu,
Vesta, Vulcan, Wotan, Yahweh, Yemaya, Zeus, XodA.
[Note under 'African Gods' the number devoted to 'Supremacy']
Abassi [Sky]
Abonsam [Evil]
Abora [Supreme]
Abzu [Water]
Acoran [Supreme]
Adaheli [Sun]
Adro [Sky]
Adroa [Sky]
Agassou [Panther]
Agbe-Naete [Water]
Age [Animals]
Aigamuxa [Monster]
Ajalamo[Unborn Children]
Aje [Wealth]
Ajok [Supreme]
Akonadi [Oracle]
Akongo [Supreme]
Akuj [Supreme]
Ala [Earth/Fertility]
Alatangana [Creator]
Amma [Creator]
Anansi [Trickster]
Anyiewo [Snake]
Aondo [Creator]
Apa [Creator]
Apedemak [War]
Arawa [Moon]
Arebati [Sky]
Arom [Contracts]
Arsan Duolai [Underworld]
Asase Ya [Earth]
Ashiakle [Wealth]
Asis [Sun]
Astar [Sky]
Ataa Naa
Nyongmo [Creator]
Ataokoloinona [Supreme]
Atete [Fertility]
Avrikiti [Fishermen]
Ayabba
[Ayaba] [Hearth]
Bacax [Cave]
Bagba [Wind]
Balubaal [Earth+]
Bandara [Superior Gods]
Banga [Clear water]
Behanzin [Fish]
Beher [Sea]
Bera Pennu [Vegetation]
Bill [Intellectual Giant and Myth Killer]
Bo [Warriors]
Bomazi[Ancestors]
Buadza [WInd]
Buck[River]
Buku [Sky]
Bumba [Creator]
Cagn [Creator]
(!Kaggen)
Cghene [Creator]
Chiuke
(Chuku) [Creator]
Chiata [Supreme]
Chwezi [Hero]
Col [Rain]
Chikara [Sky]

[Panama Floyd]

Post by michael
Well for crying out loud. It's about faith.

Faith is not enough for me. The universe acts in the same way that it
would if no gods existed. Whether or not they exist is not important
enough to simply pick one and "have faith".

Post by michael
We don't have to believe
in anything. If we let everybody do what they want to do as long as
they don't hurt anybody physically, emotionally and financially, then
it should be a tolerable world to live in, right?

Right. It only takes 2% of the human race to screw it up for the rest
of us.

Post by michael
I don't think so.

Why not?

Post by michael
There are some stupid Christians that make God look so dumb. Poor God,
he has to work through sincerity and faith.

If those are the only tools in "his" cabinet, "he" must not be much of
a god.

Post by michael
Why? See how people
treated God in the Old Testament. They didn't want to hear his audible
voice. He works differently with people today - through faith. God
didn't want to make robots. He gave us free choice to want him.

Is your god omnipotent? If he knows how everything is going to turn out
anyway, then the will of people to act is not really "free". They're
simply pawns in a very strange game.

Post by michael
The problem is too many Christians aren't Christian. They're
self-righteous, fanatical, silly-acting people that make God look bad
so he can't work through these people to perform miracles.

And yet they pray to the same Christ you do. How on earth are normal,
decent people supposed to be able to tell which ones of you are
dangerous and which are not?

Post by michael
If you're
sincere about this, God will prove himself to you but you have to live
according to the standard of the Bible through faith.

The bible is only one of thousands of (usually contradictory) books
attempting to convince me that gods exist. Why should I choose it over
some of the others?

Post by michael
It's
understandable that you don't believe because you've probably only
seen these nutty Christians act stupid in public. Just because someone
claims to be a Christian, doesn't mean that they are Christian.

Once again, I must remind you that they pray to the same Christ you do.
And remind you that I am an equal opportunity unbeliever. Christians
aren't the only god-believers that do stupid things in public (have you
read the news today?).

Post by michael
I
guess that could go for anything. Tell God that you don't believe and
to prove himself to you. Then, give it some time and see what happens.

I am a native of the southern United States. Raised in a community that
most emphatically believed in the christian god. Give it some time, you
ask? Ridiculous.

Post by michael
That's it!

No, it's not. You come in here, catigorically state that gods exist,
and rudely assert that I should pray to *your* particular god. All
without evidence.

I assert that the religious "feelings" you have are all products of the
human brain parked between your ears, and the environment you grew up
in. Unlike you, however..I don't have to "take it on faith". There is
evidence that what I think is correct.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2865009.stm
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro01/web2/Eguae.html
http://www.brainconnection.com/content/174_1

I don't know who the real Bill is, but I know the bill's coming due for
those of you who still believe in gods. Look at those burning
embassies. World War 3 will be Christianity vs. Islam in a giant
pissing contest over who has the bestest imaginary friend. Is there any
wonder there are people who wish to stop it?

-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain

Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

[Uncle Buck]

Post by michael
Has ANY Bill spoke to you in person?

I talk to myself often. :-)

Post by michael
Is this person's name really Bill or is it a fake?

It, like so much else here, is merely a cultural contrivance. It's as "real" as
any other spoken or written word.

Post by michael
Is Bill a real person?

Sometimes Bill wonders.

Post by michael
Does Bill really exist?

Bill has come firmly to the conclusion that, local disturbances in The Void
notwithstanding, he really doesn't.

Post by michael
Is Bill a man or a woman? Or neither. Or both?!

Half of each, I suppose.

Post by michael
Does Bill tell the truth?

Most of the time. :-)

Post by michael
Did Bill evolve to this?

To what?

Post by michael
Where did Bill come from?

His parents.

Post by michael
Why?

Because they fucked. :-)

Post by michael
Was Bill born?

Well, that _is_ what they tell me, but I sometimes do wonder.

Post by michael
Was Bill a baby?

Still -is- at times.

Post by michael
How could Bill be born if Bill didn't exist before birth?

The matter that became Bill _did_ exist before birth. In fact, the egg from his
-mother- that became him existed even when _she_ was still in the womb.

Post by michael
Did Bill exist before birth?

Yes, but not as Bill.

Post by michael
Where did Bill begin?

One steamy Spring evening on an overstuffed, black leather couch.

Post by michael
Why is Bill here?

Like I said - because my parents had sex.

Post by michael
Can we exist without Bill?

I'd like to think not, but alas, I doubt very much that I have that kind of
power.

Post by michael
I don't like to get bills, except dollar bills.

That's one of my nicknames - Uncle Dollar Bill.

Post by michael
Do you have faith in Bill?

Not nearly as much as I should, I'm afraid. :-(

Post by michael
What is faith in Bill?

I guess one could call it "self-confidence".

Post by michael
Does Bill convince you to believe or not believe?

Oh, yes - many different things in many different ways.

Post by michael
Why should we believe Bill?

Because you're a miserable little troglodyte who hasn't two synapsis to rub
together on your own, and thus, any opinion would have to be more credible than
your own.

Post by michael
Is Bill nice?

Eh, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Post by michael
Is Bill good or evil?

Both. :-)

Post by michael
Is Bill honest and trustworthy?

Usually.

Post by michael
Is Bill a friend?

To some people, yes.

Post by michael
Does Bill feel love for you?

Define "you".

Post by michael
How do we know that Bill feels love?

You don't. So you can either believe that I don't and am just lying to you, or
you can believe that we are similar enough that if you can feel it, I probably
can, too.

Post by michael
If there's a real Bill, why doesn't Bill convince everybody that God
doesn't exist?

Would that I could, buh-LEEEEEEEEEEEeev me...

Post by michael
Bye, Bill

Bye. Nice chattin' with you, come back again sometime. :-)

--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
aka Uncle Dollar Bill
aka Bill Shroyer :-)
--
L8r,
Uncle Buck
************************************************
"'True Perfection' would not be sadistic enough
to create anything other than its exact equal."
************************************************

Bonus sig:
"Every Buddha just needs some Buddha to love..."

[bob young]

Post by michael
Has ANY Bill spoke to you in person?

has anyone on this NG spoken to you in person?

Post by michael
Is this person's name really Bill or is it a fake?
Is Bill a real person? Does Bill really exist?
Is Bill a man or a woman? Or neither. Or both?!

Pointless questions

Post by michael
Does Bill tell the truth?

he gets a lot closer to it than fundies ever do

Post by michael
Did Bill evolve to this?

Human beings evolve, religionists are simply brainwashed

Post by michael
Where did Bill come from? Why?

what's your point?

Post by michael
Was Bill born? Was Bill a baby?

[you still are]

Post by michael
How could Bill be born if Bill didn't exist before birth?

See above

Post by michael
Did Bill exist before birth?
Where did Bill begin?
Why is Bill here?

to try to stuff some sense into godbots

Post by michael
Can we exist without Bill? I don't like to get bills, except dollar
bills.

You can exist without imaginary gods. Bill is a human

Post by michael
Do you have faith in Bill?

I prefer to use the word 'confidence'. Faith is an overworked
religious gobbledeegook type word

Post by michael
What is faith in Bill?

Can you get any more stupid than this?

Post by michael
Does Bill convince you to believe or not believe?

Bill's views and mine coincide, he reinforces what i already know about
the weaknesses of humans that cannot exist without an imaginary god,
largely because of what their parents taught them.

Had you been borne an orphan and then been adopted by a Mulsim family,
you would now be a Muslim. Think long and hard about it.

Post by michael
Why should we believe Bill?

Never mind 'belief' use your common sense; but going by this post of
yours i doubt you have any

Post by michael
Is Bill nice?

are YOU nice

Post by michael
Is Bill good or evil?

He is not evil if his posts are anything to go by. But i have seen
some nasty, close to evil, remarks here from so many religionists i
have lost count

Post by michael
Is Bill honest and trustworthy?

His words are, that is what we have to go on

Post by michael
Is Bill a friend?

<sigh>

Post by michael
Does Bill feel love for you?

<sigh>

Post by michael
How do we know that Bill feels love?

<sigh>

Post by michael
If there's a real Bill, why doesn't Bill convince everybody that God
doesn't exist?

He gets as close as anyone here, closer, much closer than the idiots
who try to show there is a god whilst at the same time they ignore the
thousands of other gods.

Post by michael
Bye, Bill

Bye stooopid

bob
humanist Brit.
Hong kong

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one
fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the
other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
[Stephen Roberts]

[michael]

Hi Bob! So you disapprove of this post? I'm sure you're a nice person
outside of this newsgroup, right? I'm sorry that you have no concept
of "faith". According to one of my dictionaries, faith is a "Complete
confidence in a person or plan." So, it's basically a terminology
thing with you. I suppose I'm one of the dumbest people on earth that
you could ever encounter. Well, I'm not violent. I agree, there's a
lot of stupid Christians out there - if you want to call them that. A
person can call himself a Christian but that doesn't mean he is,
right? I don't believe everything I'm told, either - that would be
plain stupid. Hey, don't mock Christianity. A witch doctor in Africa
was converted and he was deep into magic spells and talking to demonic
spirits. You've probably never talked to a devil worshipper or a
witch. Like I mentioned to someone else, people don't practice
witchcraft for nothing!

[bob young]

Post by michael
Hi Bob! So you disapprove of this post? I'm sure you're a nice person
outside of this newsgroup, right? I'm sorry that you have no concept
of "faith". According to one of my dictionaries, faith is a "Complete
confidence in a person or plan."

FAITH IS

"Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you
can
accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be
taken on its own merits." --Dan Barker

"Faith is not a justification, but an admission that
there is no justification. If there are rational
reasons to believe something, then "faith" is
superfluous. If there are no rational reasons to
believe something, then continued belief is, by
definition, irrational."
[Acknowledgments to Godfrey]

"I refuse to prove I exist", says god. "Because proof denies faith and
without faith, I am nothing"
[Douglas Adams].

Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to
evade the need to think and evaluate evidence.
Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of,
the lack of evidence.
[Richard Dawkins]

It was the schoolboy who said: "Faith is believing what you know ain't
so."
[Mark Twain (1835-1910)

I like the last one best micheal

Post by michael
So, it's basically a terminology
thing with you.

nope - the biggest thing with me is 'common sense' closely followed by a
'modicum of intelligence'

Post by michael
I suppose I'm one of the dumbest people on earth that
you could ever encounter. Well, I'm not violent.

Me too, Im a humanist

Post by michael
I agree, there's a
lot of stupid Christians out there - if you want to call them that. A
person can call himself a Christian but that doesn't mean he is,
right? I don't believe everything I'm told, either - that would be
plain stupid. Hey, don't mock Christianity. A witch doctor in Africa
was converted and he was deep into magic spells and talking to demonic
spirits. You've probably never talked to a devil worshipper or a
witch. Like I mentioned to someone else, people don't practice
witchcraft for nothing!

I have traveled Africa, and many parts of asia and seen mumbo jumbo in
action. these are small beliefs, Christianity and Islam are the two
biggies, but at the end of the day they boil down to the same thing,
superstition.

bob

[michael]

Watch out, Bob! You're believing what other people are telling you.
Well, you can't prove that God doesn't exist so there's still hope. I
suppose you don't have any faith (or confidence) in other people
(family/friends/doctors/etc) or your own country. I can understand
losing faith in your country, though. Who do you trust anyway?
Perhaps there's deceit in everybody and nobody is completely, truly an
honest person. Perhaps everybody's underlying motives are selfish. If
Christians (the real ones?) are liars and deceivers, we can't trust
anyone to be completely honest and truthful. Maybe we're all being
fooled by someone that we "think" we can trust. Yikes!

[John Baker]

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 16:14:26 GMT, michael

Post by michael
Watch out, Bob! You're believing what other people are telling you.
Well, you can't prove that God doesn't exist

He doesn't have to. You're the one making the positive claim. The
burden of proof is yours.

Post by michael
so there's still hope. I
suppose you don't have any faith (or confidence) in other people
(family/friends/doctors/etc) or your own country. I can understand
losing faith in your country, though. Who do you trust anyway?
Perhaps there's deceit in everybody and nobody is completely, truly an
honest person. Perhaps everybody's underlying motives are selfish. If
Christians (the real ones?) are liars and deceivers, we can't trust
anyone to be completely honest and truthful. Maybe we're all being
fooled by someone that we "think" we can trust. Yikes!

[bob young]

Post by michael
Watch out, Bob! You're believing what other people are telling you.
Well, you can't prove that God doesn't exist so there's still hope. I
suppose you don't have any faith (or confidence) in other people
(family/friends/doctors/etc) or your own country.

and you need an invisible god to do all this?

that you insult people this way is a first class example of what religion
does to human beings and might, just might, have you thinking; but you
will first need to take off your blinkers.

Post by michael
I can understand
losing faith in your country, though. Who do you trust anyway?

Most decent folk I meet. I get to know them first and make up my mind as
to their trustworthiness. What do you do? Ask "Are you a Christian"
first and if they answer "Yes" you then trust them? If so you will be in
for a some disappointments.

Post by michael
Perhaps there's deceit in everybody and nobody is completely, truly an
honest person. Perhaps everybody's underlying motives are selfish. If
Christians (the real ones?) are liars and deceivers, we can't trust
anyone to be completely honest and truthful. Maybe we're all being
fooled by someone that we "think" we can trust. Yikes!

My parents were low key Christians. they relied on an elderly cousin to
take me weekly to Sunday school as a kid here I was given coloured stamps
to stick into a book because i got my questions about Jesus right. I was
even confirmed at 21 in the army. Then i went to Africa and saw the
other side of the world and started thinking.

I now live in hong kong where there are plenty of temples, churches and
mosques. They are all the same to me, monuments to early primitive
superstitions, nothing more.

bob
Humanist Brit.
Hong Kong

[SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim]

anyone that worships a being that demand that people MURDER (er excuse me, I
mean sacrifice) their only son is a devil worshipper.

[Witziges Rätsel]

Post by michael
Has ANY Bill spoke to you in person?
Is this person's name really Bill or is it a fake?
Is Bill a real person? Does Bill really exist?
Is Bill a man or a woman? Or neither. Or both?!
Does Bill tell the truth?

<snippo>

Congress passes bills.

[The Ghost In The Machine]

In alt.atheism, Witziges Rätsel
<***@roer.com>
wrote
on Sun, 5 Feb 2006 09:02:42 -0500

Post by Witziges Rätsel

Post by michael
Has ANY Bill spoke to you in person?
Is this person's name really Bill or is it a fake?
Is Bill a real person? Does Bill really exist?
Is Bill a man or a woman? Or neither. Or both?!
Does Bill tell the truth?

<snippo>
Congress passes bills.

And I thought the comparison of our government to a sausage factory
was bad. :-)

Just to illustrate this point: Congress also pontificates mercilessly.
One might construe that as hot air (and in fact pundits often
do so). If that hot air gets hot enough to coalese into a
meaningless resolution which passes, one might say Congress has
then digested the issue...

[Doc Smartass]

Post by michael
Bye, Bill

Bill's not ass cool as Steve.