[slim] Announcing the Squeezbox Duet

[mvalera]

I'm happy to announce that we have launched the all new Squeezebox™
Duet!

Squeezebox™ Duet lets you listen to the music you love in any room in
your home. Access millions of songs — even when your computer is off.
The multi-room controller with 2.4-inch color display makes it easy to
browse, select, and play songs from your personal collection, Internet
radio — even online music services.

A convenient scroll wheel, simple menus and intuitive buttons make
navigation a breeze. Advanced 802.11g technology eliminates the need to
string wires. Enjoy crystal clear, CD-quality audio on your home theater
system, your bedroom stereo, your kitchen mini-system — anywhere you
have audio gear.

Check out the details:
http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html

Press Release (once they get it up):
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/172/4180

Mike
--
mvalera

Michael Valera
Online Communities Manager
Logitech Streaming Media Systems
slimdevices.com
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[upstatemike]

This looks great but I am not clear about the controller... do you need
a wireless network to use it? I have 14 Squeezebox players but they are
all wired. Would I have to put up a wireless network to use this remote?

[mrfantasy]

Post by upstatemike
This looks great but I am not clear about the controller... do you need
a wireless network to use it? I have 14 Squeezebox players but they are
all wired. Would I have to put up a wireless network to use this remote?

You'd need wireless to run the remote. Your Squeezeboxes can stay
wired though.

14? Is that some sort of record?

[pichonCalavera]

Wow!, congratulations on another product release!

I bought a Squeezebox 3 like 2 months ago (The one with the VFD display
:) ), so here are my first main observations:

Differences of Squeezebox 3 (SB3) vs. Squeezebox Receiver (SBR)

The SBR doesn't have a headphone jack.
The DAC from SB3 is a Burr-Brown™ 24-bit DAC, and the one on the
SBR is a Wolfson® 24-bit DAC.
The Total harmonic distortion on the SB3 is less than -93.5dB (0.002%)
and on the SBR is less than -88dB (0.002%) (no idea what this means :P
).
The SB3 has 64MB of RAM while the SBR has 32MB.
The SBR doesn't have a VFD.
The SB3 costs $299 and the SBR costs $149.

So I see that both are not very diferent in terms of arquitecture /
functions, so I guess a SBR can be synchronized with a SB3 or maybe
even a SB2 for music playback from Squeezecenter?

As for the Squeezebox Controller (SBC), it seems there is a headphone
jack on the SBC pics, what purpose does it have?

Also I'm not very clear with this: -Bridging capability allows Ethernet
devices to connect to the network through Squeezebox Receiver's wireless
connection-. Does it mean the SBC can connect to the network through the
SBR instead of connecting directly to the wireless router for example?

I wish you great success with your new products!
--
pichonCalavera

*rip* (eac) > *convert* (flac) > *tag* (musicbrainz) > *normalize*
(replaygain/foobar2000) > *albumart* (winamp) > *transport* (winscp) >
*store* (debian) >*rescan* (slimserver) > *play* (squeezebox) > *hear*
(sennheiser) > *scrooble* (last.fm) > *enjoy* (me :)
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[mvalera]

All Squeezboxes can be synchronized by the Controller, or SlimServer
/SqueezeCenter for that matter, to play the same song. Or they can all
play different songs at the same time.

Bridging works the same as on the SqueezeBox. You connect your
SqueezeBox wirelessly to your network, and then you can connect wired
devices, like a PS2 to your network through your SqueezeBox's Ethernet
port. Or you can connect a switch to it, and hve a whole load of
devices connected.

It works great if you don't have a wired connection for your home
theater setup. Everything AV related seems to come with a Ethernet port
these days.


Mike
--
mvalera

Michael Valera
Online Communities Manager
Logitech Streaming Media Systems
slimdevices.com
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[Bradley]

Post by mvalera
Bridging works the same as on the SqueezeBox. You connect your
SqueezeBox wirelessly to your network, and then you can connect wired
devices, like a PS2 to your network through your SqueezeBox's Ethernet
port. Or you can connect a switch to it, and hve a whole load of
devices connected.
Mike

What if everything you have is hardwired Ethernet (including 6 SB3's),
not wireless. Can the Controller then be the sole wireless device that
talks to the Squeezebox or Squeezebox Receiver, and onto the hardwired
network through this bridging capability?

Hint: I live in a city and don't use wireless because of security
concerns.

Not clear whether this would work.

*Bradley

[andyg]

Yes, if you have a wired Duet receiver and no other wireless network,
you can bridge the controller through the receiver's wireless
connection.

[mvalera]

Post by andyg
Yes, if you have a wired Duet receiver and no other wireless network,
you can bridge the controller through the receiver's wireless
connection.

That's actually an ad-hoc wireless connection, not bridging. But yes,
it will work that way with a Squeezebox Receiver.

Mike
--
mvalera

Michael Valera
Online Communities Manager
Logitech Streaming Media Systems
slimdevices.com
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[andyg]

I think he meant would an SB3 provide the ad-hoc connection. Currently
the answer is no but it would technically be possible in future
firmware.

[Bradley]

Post by andyg
I think he meant would an SB3 provide the ad-hoc connection. Currently
the answer is no but it would technically be possible in future
firmware.

Exactly. I'm looking for an ad-hoc connection (or as I understand, a
"private wireless network for only the Controller" and no Other
wireless computing device.

Is this doable with 1) the Receiver and/or 2) the SB3?

Thanks in advance.

*Bradley

[Bradley]

Post by andyg
Yes, if you have a wired Duet receiver and no other wireless network,
you can bridge the controller through the receiver's wireless
connection.

What about if you just bought the controller and not the receiver?
Would the SB3's provide the same functionality?

[mvalera]

Post by Bradley
What about if you just bought the controller and not the receiver?
Would the SB3's provide the same functionality?

As we said receiver, yes... soon. SB3 I will have to get back to you
on.

Mike
--
mvalera

Michael Valera
Online Communities Manager
Logitech Streaming Media Systems
slimdevices.com
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[twylie]

Will I be able to pick one up at your booth next week? :-)

[mvalera]

Post by twylie
Will I be able to pick one up at your booth next week? :-)

You can play with one, but we won't have any for sale.

Mike
--
mvalera

Michael Valera
Online Communities Manager
Logitech Streaming Media Systems
slimdevices.com
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[amey01]

Post by Bradley
What about if you just bought the controller and not the receiver?
Would the SB3's provide the same functionality?

I see the answer to this is "YES" - very good!

What about the reverse? Would my existing "SlimRemote" (PDA based) [or
even Moose or SlimServer for that matter] control a SBR without the
SBC?

[dean blackketter]

Post by pichonCalavera
Wow!, congratulations on another product release!

Thanks!

Post by pichonCalavera
So I see that both are not very diferent in terms of arquitecture /
functions, so I guess a SBR can be synchronized with a SB3 or maybe
even a SB2 for music playback from Squeezecenter?

That's right.

Post by pichonCalavera
Also I'm not very clear with this: -Bridging capability allows
Ethernet
devices to connect to the network through Squeezebox Receiver's wireless
connection-. Does it mean the SBC can connect to the network
through the
SBR instead of connecting directly to the wireless router for example?

That's right too!

-dean

[dean blackketter]

Post by upstatemike
This looks great but I am not clear about the controller... do you need
a wireless network to use it? I have 14 Squeezebox players but they are
all wired. Would I have to put up a wireless network to use this remote?

If you buy the Duet bundle, you can connect the Receiver to your
ethernet network and bridge to the Controller without any other
wireless networking equipment.

[Peter]

Post by dean blackketter

Post by upstatemike
This looks great but I am not clear about the controller... do you need
a wireless network to use it? I have 14 Squeezebox players but they are
all wired. Would I have to put up a wireless network to use this remote?

If you buy the Duet bundle, you can connect the Receiver to your
ethernet network and bridge to the Controller without any other
wireless networking equipment.

I can imagine that's a nice feature. Although most people (unlike
upstatemike) who run wired ethernet these days are probably also running
wireless. In my experience the less technically inclined people just use
wireless for everything.

Regards,
Peter

[GCFL]

Please forgive me if this is posted in the incorrect location. I am
currently running four zones via a Zon audio system in my home. I am
seriously considering purchasing the Duet and plugging it in as one of
the music sources so I can access streaming Internet radio, networked
music files etc. The new controller that comes in the duet package
looks to be ideal for remote access for at least the SB when it is the
music source being played. Has anyone here used the SB, SB2, etc with
a Zon system and can anyone tell me if the controller will be able to
be used (or possibly modified) as a universal remote (to access the CD
player, etc.)?

Thanks for any info.

[macintoys.nl]

Great, now I can sell my Sonos system! (I use both Squeezebox and Sonos;
the Sonos is nice because I have the Remote always with me...)
My problem with the Sonos is that I cannot see more than 50,000 songs
and I do have more!
So the question is: has the Duet enough memory to access my whole
collection?

Thanks, Wim

[Michael Herger]

Post by macintoys.nl
So the question is: has the Duet enough memory to access my whole
collection?

Duet is the bundled Receiver and Controller. I assume you're interested in the Controller? It doesn't manage the collection locally, but communicates with SqueezeCenter. It will only keep those items in memory which are to be displayed. Thus there shouldn't be a memory limitation for larg collections.

Michael

[macintoys.nl]

Post by macintoys.nl
So the question is: has the Duet enough memory to access my whole

collection?[/color]
Duet is the bundled Receiver and Controller. I assume you're interested
in the Controller? It doesn't manage the collection locally, but
communicates with SqueezeCenter. It will only keep those items in
memory which are to be displayed. Thus there shouldn't be a memory
limitation for larg collections.
Michael

Are you sure? I hope so! But the controller and the receiver both have
64MB Ram. Isn't that used for indexing or so?

[Peter]

Post by macintoys.nl

Post by macintoys.nl
So the question is: has the Duet enough memory to access my whole

collection?[/color]
Duet is the bundled Receiver and Controller. I assume you're interested
in the Controller? It doesn't manage the collection locally, but
communicates with SqueezeCenter. It will only keep those items in
memory which are to be displayed. Thus there shouldn't be a memory
limitation for larg collections.
Michael

Are you sure? I hope so! But the controller and the receiver both have
64MB Ram. Isn't that used for indexing or so?

Perhaps it's meant as a buffer for when the headphone option is added.

Regards,
Peter

[Michael Herger]

Post by macintoys.nl
Are you sure? I hope so! But the controller and the receiver both have
64MB Ram. Isn't that used for indexing or so?

Receiver has 64M_b_ (8MB) which is used to buffer data and run decoders.

Controller has 64M_B_ of RAM. Indexing is done on SqueezeCenter. Thus library size isn't limited by Controller's memory. AFAIK it has been tesed with libraries of more than 100'000 songs.

Michael

[funkstar]

Post by macintoys.nl
Are you sure? I hope so! But the controller and the receiver both have
64MB Ram. Isn't that used for indexing or so?

The RAM is for adio buffers and in the case of the remote, a cache for
graphics sent from SqueezeCenter.

The Duet, SqueezeBox and Taransporter all rely on SqueezeCenter or
SqueezeNetowk to deliver information to them. The Duet has a bit more
autonomy than the other two (the others don't render the screen
displays, they are sent bitmats from the server to display, the Duet
renders the interface from information provided by the server) but none
of them deal with your music library directly.

[seanadams]

Post by macintoys.nl
Are you sure? I hope so! But the controller and the receiver both have
64MB Ram. Isn't that used for indexing or so?

That is inadvertently very misleading and will be rephrased. The
controller has 64 mega_bytes_, but the Receiver, Squeezebox and
Transporter are all in mega_bits_. Yes that makes it seem like more but
really it is a reasonable metric being as it refers to the streaming
audio buffer, and one almost always talks about streaming and/or
compression in terms of mega/kilo-bits per second. Mixing units is
obviously bad form though...

[Mnyb]

How much bandwitdh will the controller use over the wifi ?
Is there any risc off audiable droopouts when scrolling with the
controller ? just a thougth

[seanadams]

Post by Mnyb
How much bandwitdh will the controller use over the wifi ?

Not much. It is only downloading lists in text form, plus small
graphics for the covert art. It would be roughly equivalent to browsing
simple web pages from a wireless laptop.

Post by Mnyb
Is there any risc off audiable droopouts when scrolling with the
controller ? just a thougth

No. Scrolling and screen-drawing are done in the Controller's software
so this does not load the network. Anyway, it is a negligible amount of
data compared to streaming audio.

[Mnyb]

When will the controller be aviable as a separate item then ? is there a
release date decided

[bits]

Make the controller 100% compatible with SB3's and I'll buy the
controller.
I want to remain with my SB3's as the display on it can be read by all
when they walk past which is handy, the remote that is less likely as
I'll have it hidden somewhere so it doesn't get stolen by friend, foe
or family. Also I use a SB3 as an alarm clock, the remote screen just
cant double as a room clock. Plus the SB3 has a better spec'ed
dac(disappointing to see Logitech cut that huge selling point).

Logitech should consider bundling the new remote with SB3's. The SB3's
screen, DAC, IR blaster and headphone jack are key selling points the
SBR lacks. Some will appreciate the cost saving of a SBR + SBC, some
will appreciate the benefits of a SB3 + SBC. Give users the choice :)

[Seineseeker]

It's a shame there is no display on the receiver, everyone who passes
this house is impressed with seeing what is being played scrolling by.
--
Seineseeker

SlimServer: 6.3.1 + AlienBBC.
Amp: Rega Mira (Salon) / Creek 4040 (Pallier).
Speakers: JMLAB Chorus (Salon) / Scandyna MiniPods (Pallier).
Clients: 2 Squeezebox 3
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[Michael Herger]

Post by Seineseeker
It's a shame there is no display on the receiver, everyone who passes
this house is impressed with seeing what is being played scrolling by.

Then buy a SB3 instead. It's not discontinued.

Michael

[Michael Herger]

Post by bits
Make the controller 100% compatible with SB3's and I'll buy the
controller.

It is. Get one ;-).

Michael

[bits]

I thought they said it doesnt support ad-hoc yet. I would need to be
running my own AP currently.

[Mnyb]

There are stupendeus price hikes if one sees the European prices :-(
at
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/wireless_music_systems/

Qucik calc for the swedish prices including 25% VAT:

399$*6.2031*1.25=3094 SEK
The suggested logitech price 3999 SEK (I hope this includes VAT)

I'm stunned, wtf correct it now

[Tele]

Post by Mnyb
There are stupendeus price hikes if one sees the European prices :-(
at
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/wireless_music_systems/
399$*6.2031*1.25=3094 SEK
The suggested logitech price 3999 SEK (I hope this includes VAT)
I'm stunned, wtf correct it now

Well, 399 euros is about *590 dollars*, quite a price difference
indeed. :( The dollar=euro time is way behind us Logitech :P Even with
taxes, shipping, etc. added to 399 dollars it comes nowhere near $590,-

[Mnyb]

The swedish price is actually 3999 SEK which is 644$
but never theless bs

[SteveC]

Post by Mnyb
There are stupendeus price hikes if one sees the European prices :-(
at
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/wireless_music_systems/
399$*6.2031*1.25=3094 SEK
The suggested logitech price 3999 SEK (I hope this includes VAT)
I'm stunned, wtf correct it now It's listed as 3299 NOK in Norway, which would be USD 490 even taking

the sales tax off. I agree it's a rip off but it's not uncommon for us,
is it. I think I might order one, but it would have been three if I
didn't resent being ripped off so much.

[brant]

Hello. Congrats on your launch! Was considering Sonos recently, but was
delighted to discover what Slim Devices has been up to. Then I refresh
the site and find the Duet announcement -- sweet! Having the controller
will significantly boost the WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor) for Slim
Devices! Glad I held off -- now I can't wait for this stuff to be
available...

A few questions though, as I try to sort out all the offerings:

1. Does the Controller also work with Transporter?

2. If so, does that mean the "party mode" thing would also work with a
Transporter and a Receiver?

3. Is there any limitation on the size of a music library that the
controller can deal with?

4. Am I right in thinking that I could take the digital out of the
Receiver (or an SB3) and run that through my Yamaha RXV-1500 letting it
do the D/A conversion? Will that likely be better than the analog out of
the SB3 or Receiver? Will I still pine for the Transporter?

5. I am considering loading my library (and a bunch of other stuff I'd
like to see stored safely in a RAID array) onto a Buffalo TeraServer
(or similar) NAS. Any special trick to get the Duet to work with that?
Is the Buffalo a good choice or does someone have positive experience
with an alternative?

Sorry if some of this is borderline OT -- just trying to figure out
what I want to build toward (and what I can live with while waiting for
the Audiophile Fairy to bring me a Transporter...). Thanks in advance
for any help!

-Brant

[seanadams]

//1. Does the Controller also work with Transporter?

Yes

//2. If so, does that mean the "party mode" thing would also work with
a Transporter and a Receiver?

Yes

//3. Is there any limitation on the size of a music library that the
controller can deal with?

No

// 4. Am I right in thinking that I could take the digital out of the
Receiver (or an SB3) and run that through my Yamaha RXV-1500 letting it
do the D/A conversion?

Yes

// Will that likely be better than the analog out of the SB3 or
Receiver?

Maybe

// Will I still pine for the Transporter?

Yes

// 5. I am considering loading my library (and a bunch of other stuff
I'd like to see stored safely in a RAID array) onto a Buffalo
TeraServer (or similar) NAS. Any special trick to get the Duet to work
with that? Is the Buffalo a good choice or does someone have positive
experience with an alternative?

Others with more experience running on NAS can comment....

[EnochLight]

Post by mvalera
I'm happy to announce that we have launched the all new Squeezebox™
Duet!
Mike

Congrats on the formal announcement! Hopefully beta testing for the
remote/Jive will end soon.

That said, although the new Squeezebox Receiver is a good price point
at $149, I can't say I'm impressed with the price being asked for the
new remote. $299??? Are you serious?

I would say $199 at most would be a fair price but... *sigh*

[pichonCalavera]

Post by EnochLight
That said, although the new Squeezebox Receiver is a good price point
at $149, I can't say I'm impressed with the price being asked for the
new remote. $299???

Exactly my toughts, since I already own a Squeezebox, $299 is very
expensive for me right now for the Controller, altough on the flip
side, is $100 cheaper than the Sonos Controller, so while I think the
Sonos controller is "very-expensive", I think the Squeezebox Controller
is just "expensive" :P

But I think the main purpose of this is the Duet and first timers to
the Squeezebox, since you'll get the Duet for $400, that in comparision
with the Sonos for example, I think you'll need at least $750 for a
similar setup (Sonos Controller + Sonos® ZonePlayer 80). Also I don't
think a Squeezebox Receiver is very helpful without a Squeezebox
Controller as mvalera says on this thread:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41805&page=3

Post by EnochLight
One note about the SB Receiver, is that it requires the Controller for
network setup. You can't just buy one on it's own. It's for adding
extra rooms.
The Receiver and Controller will be available as an accessory from us
online, and a few select online partners. They will not be a retail
boxed product.

--
pichonCalavera

*rip* (eac) > *convert* (flac) > *tag* (musicbrainz) > *normalize*
(replaygain/foobar2000) > *albumart* (winamp) > *transport* (winscp) >
*store* (debian) >*rescan* (slimserver) > *play* (squeezebox) > *hear*
(sennheiser) > *scrooble* (last.fm) > *enjoy* (me :)
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[SuperQ]

Congrats! How about some nice hot internal photos of the SBR?

I've always thought it would be really cool if the SqueezeBox could act
as an AP.

[SuperQ]

Oh, poo, I just noticed that it's missing the headphone port.. of course
the headphone port was never useful for headphones, but was great for IR
Blaster.

[Phil Meyer]

What's the main benefits of the SqueezeBox Controller over a PDA?

The Controller looks like any other handheld PC, similar to a PDA, but only has one specific function? If the Controller is easier to use than eg the Handheld skin on a PDA, then the price is justified, and I may consider buying one.

However, my PDA has a larger screen and already multi-functional.

How long will the Controller's full battery charge last? I assume the thing it's sitting in is a charging cradle, which means it needs to be plugged in, so it would not sit well on a coffee table in the center of a room.

Does the device remain on all the time; if not, how long would it take to be functional from power-off?

Phil

[ModelCitizen]

What's the main benefits of the SqueezeBox Controller over a PDA?The interface is much slicker and much, much more responsive than the

web gui. The web gui is very clunky and slow in comparison (or it is on
whatever device/platform I've tried it on).

MC
--
ModelCitizen

It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist
in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

Transporter > Bryston 4B ST > PMC OB1s
SB3 > NAIM NAC 102 + HICAP > NAIM NAP 180 > Shahinian Arcs
http://www.last.fm/user/ModelCitizen
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[Peter]

Post by ModelCitizen

What's the main benefits of the SqueezeBox Controller over a PDA?The interface is much slicker and much, much more responsive than the

web gui. The web gui is very clunky and slow in comparison (or it is on
whatever device/platform I've tried it on).

The controller does not have/use a web GUI. It's a newly developed
client/server menu system. The menus are downloaded from Squeezecenter
and run locally. At least that's how I understand it. I have one of the
beta units and it works a lot better than a PDA with a web browser.

Regards,
Peter

[Michael Herger]

Post by Peter
The controller does not have/use a web GUI.

That said we would be very happy if somebody was able to implement a web browser for it :-).

Michael

[signor_rossi]

The interface is much slicker and much, much more responsive than the
web gui. The web gui is very clunky and slow in comparison (or it is on
whatever device/platform I've tried it on). The difference is chalk and
cheese.
MC

Can second that. When I looked at the SB3 I thought: my, it has a nice
big screen but only such a small remote, but hey, I can control it via
my Nokia770 with its 800x480 screen and bought it. Soon did I realize
that the web interface wasn't really to my taste because of its'
clunkyness and slowness (on the N770, on the PC it is o.k.), but
fortunately the small remote proved to be usable very well. So what is
my point? The new remote in combination with the SBR is really an
interesting kit, where the SBR is responsible for the increased user
experience and the SBR takes care of keeping the price low.
I only hope that Logitech makes it possible to set up the SBR in the
network without a SBR.


Bye, signor_rossi.

[Paul Webster]

No infrared receiver listed for the new Receiver?

I suppose it does make sense since you would not be able to see the
menus - but it would have worked with Favourites on presets, volume,
mute, power.

[ModelCitizen]

In the US the Duo costs 399.99 US Dollars (equiv. to 172.103 UK Pounds)
but in the UK it costs 551.17 US Dollars (279 UK Pounds)

What possible justification can there be for this almost 40% price hike
for UK buyers?

MC
--
ModelCitizen

It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist
in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

Transporter > Bryston 4B ST > PMC OB1s
SB3 > NAIM NAC 102 + HICAP > NAIM NAP 180 > Shahinian Arcs
http://www.last.fm/user/ModelCitizen
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[Robin Bowes]

Post by ModelCitizen
In the US the Duo costs 399.99 US Dollars (equiv. to 172.103 UK Pounds)
but in the UK it costs 551.17 US Dollars (279 UK Pounds)
What possible justification can there be for this almost 40% price hike
for UK buyers?

Er, I think your sums may have gone a little awry.

$399.99 converted directly to UKP is £202.63

There will also be import duty - not sure exactly how much, but let's
say 10%. That brings us to £222.89.

Add VAT @ 17.5% onto that and you get £261.90

That's not all that much different to £279.99 is it.

R.

[Mnyb]

I don't think the import part count's, sure it will if you import one
yourself.
But what duties are logitech paying ? and where are the product
manufactured, and what does it cost before markup when logitech imports
them into EU ? There migth be import cost's in the US price to.

Parrellell importing one unit as always expensive, the european price
migth be (cynically)calculated with that in mind.
I'm convinced that logitech makes more $ per unit in UK or Sweden.

This is somekind off "strategy" or missfireid neorons if you ask me.

Why does logitech think that they must make mor $ per sale here ?

[Fifer]

Am I alone in being slightly more excited about the SBR than the
Controller (which is lovely and I'm not putting it down). If the US
price of $149 converts (with VAT and duty) to around (preferably under)
£100, it starts to look like a reasonably affordable module with which
to build a rather nice multi-room system (along with one controller).
Any word of UK pricing for the SBR?

[Mnyb]

I'm most interested in the controller, but the combo deal makes an
aditional reciver a consideration.
Id like to se the covers for my CD's andas it is backlit i can se it in
the dark.
If someone makes the headphone soccet in the controller work i'm happy
then I have a kitchen radio.I will hook it upp to my PAL.

Now i have to justify "multi room " functions in my 69square meter flat
:-) he he

[ezkcdude]

Post by Fifer
Am I alone in being slightly more excited about the SBR than the
Controller (which is lovely and I'm not putting it down). If the US
price of $149 converts (with VAT and duty) to around (preferably under)
£100, it starts to look like a reasonably affordable module with which
to build a rather nice multi-room system (along with one controller).
Any word of UK pricing for the SBR?

No, I want the headless receiver. I already have a beta version of the
jive remote. I've been wanting to stick another SB3 in my home theater
system, but the receiver will look much more low profile.
--
ezkcdude

There are 10 kind of people in the world - those who understand binary
and those who don't.
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[bigfool1956]

Well, Logitech.com is only showing the duet on the UK site. One of the
Slim guys (forgot which one) has already said the items will not be
generally available separately, but will be direct from them and
certain internet partners....

BUT, Slim Devices only ship to the Americas - which means the rest of
us in Europe might be out in the cold!

[mortslim]

I also assume that your own computer can control the new receiver so you
really don't need any remote (neither the new one nor the old one).

[mortslim]

I also want to follow up on the comments that the new controller is
better than a pda (e.g. the nokia web tablets - 770, 800, 810)

If the idea is to have something handheld rather than a desktop or
laptop computer to control the receiver, then looking at form factor,
the nokia line seem to beat the new logitech controller because the
nokia has a bigger screen and is multifunctional - it can do more than
just control the receiver.

However a comment was made above that the new controller is better than
a pda because the interface is what? something about chalk and cheese.
Can those comments please be amplified or elaborated upon. It seems to
be that, as a non-programmer myself, that a plug in for the nokia can be
upgraded to make it more like cheese than chalk, right? By the way,
what is better, chalk or cheese? I have never heard of that metaphor
before.

[scrosland]

Post by mortslim
I also want to follow up on the comments that the new controller is
better than a pda (e.g. the nokia web tablets - 770, 800, 810)
If the idea is to have something handheld rather than a desktop or
laptop computer to control the receiver, then looking at form factor,
the nokia line seem to beat the new logitech controller because the
nokia has a bigger screen and is multifunctional - it can do more than
just control the receiver.

Surely the new Jive software stack could be made to run on the Nokia
tablets? Then we'd have the benefit of a decent tablet with browser and
so on, and a decent Squeezebox controller all in one.

Simon

[Greg Friedman]

Post by scrosland
Surely the new Jive software stack could be made to run on the Nokia
tablets? Then we'd have the benefit of a decent tablet with browser and
so on, and a decent Squeezebox controller all in one.
Simon

This is exactly what I wish they'd done.

Had the controller debuted with a $150 price tag, I would have easily
justified the purchase. At $299 it doesn't make sense to me. It's
currently a single-purpose remote whose value is being justified based
on its potential for third parties to exploit its DAC, expansion slot,
headphone jack, and platform potential. Personally, I'm only marginally
interested in seeing what the community does with the controller's
platform potential because I think the form factor is too limiting for
it to ever become a compelling multi-purpose device in my home.

On the other hand, the Nokia N800 has all of these capabilities of the
controller and much more (touch screen, built-in camera for video
conferencing, FM radio, Opera, multiple expansion slots, ...). The N800
currently retails for as low as $239. With its touch screen and
on-screen keyboard, it has the potential to smoke the competitive
offerings (namely Sonos), but it isn't achieving this with the
SlimServer web-browser based experience. I would love to see a native
$29.99 app from Slim which brings the features and performance of the
new controller to the N800/N810. Sling Media (SlingBox) has gone this
direction with custom apps for a variety of platforms, and I think it's
a great model.

On an different note: I miss the era of the $200 wired SqueezeBox.
We're a multiple SqueezeBox household. My six-year-old daughter has her
own SqueezeBox in her room. My three-year-old son is about due for his
own. Today's SqueezeBox costs 33% more than the last one I bought in
Summer 2004.

Overall, I feel a bit left at the side of the road by the current
product line and prices. I suppose the new line works great for new
adopters who are willing to buy receivers and controllers such that the
receivers outnumber the controllers. Deployed like this, Slim is
definitely less pricey than Sonos. With my existing setup, though, I'm
suffering from sticker shock and can't figure out how to evolve it
short of the used market on eBay.

I do hope you guys have great success with the new products, and I hope
you'll consider pursuing native apps on the N800/N810 platform.

[Paul Webster]

Video from CES by Engadget
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/06/video-logitech-squeezebox-duet/
However, it doesn't really do it justice.

[bhaagensen]

Post by Greg Friedman
On the other hand, the Nokia N800 has all of these capabilities of the
controller and much more (touch screen, built-in camera for video
conferencing, FM radio, Opera, multiple expansion slots, ...). The N800
currently retails for as low as $239. With its touch screen and
on-screen keyboard, it has the potential to smoke the competitive
offerings (namely Sonos), but it isn't achieving this with the
SlimServer web-browser based experience. I would love to see a native
$29.99 app from Slim which brings the features and performance of the
new controller to the N800/N810. Sling Media (SlingBox) has gone this
direction with custom apps for a variety of platforms, and I think it's
a great model.

Well, the way I see it is that this is an all new platform for slim,
and they have to start somewhere. They could have offered a client for
e.g. the iphone, n800 and symbian, but multiplatform developement takes
more time, and anyway those devices are currently mostly used by the
gadget nerds. Instead they chose to start by creating a stand-alone
fully integrated system which anyone can buy immediately have a fully
working, more or less, plug and play system. The price is set lower
than comparable products. Moreover the entire platform is open, so
anyone is free to create a better and cheaper solution, or extend the
current one. What more can we ask for? The only answer I have to this
question is a gift in terms of a miraculously low priced device. That
didn't happen, but I think slimdevices are being very fair anyway.

Enough sucking up. Can I get a discount now :)

Bjørn

[Mnyb]

"the Controller? It doesn't manage the collection locally, but
communicates with SqueezeCenter. It will only keep those items in
memory which are to be displayed."

Anyone knows if it remember this when you powered off the server ? or
does it have to cache these thing's every time the server starts ? and
does only remember the current item ? some kind off cache seems a
resonable idea ? the ideal would if it could cache a large part of the
library and the cover art.

Mortslim wrote.
"I also assume that your own computer can control the new receiver so
you really don't need any remote (neither the new one nor the old
one)."

You need one to do the initail setup ip config etc.

[mkozlows]

Post by mortslim
I also assume that your own computer can control the new receiver so you
really don't need any remote (neither the new one nor the old one).

Logitech people have said that you need the Controller for setup, and a
Receiver by itself is not a functioning configuration. (I think;
correct me if I'm wrong.)

[mrfantasy]

Post by mkozlows
Logitech people have said that you need the Controller for setup, and a
Receiver by itself is not a functioning configuration. (I think;
correct me if I'm wrong.)

They have said that, and I can see why it has to be true for a wireless
connection (you need to identify a network) but if you connect it to
your wired network, there'd be no technical reason why it couldn't DHCP
an address and then identify a SqueezeCenter, and let you run it from a
web interface.

Was there a conscious decision to not allow that configuration?

[mortslim]

Post by mrfantasy
They have said that, and I can see why it has to be true for a wireless
connection (you need to identify a network) but if you connect it to
your wired network, there'd be no technical reason why it couldn't DHCP
an address and then identify a SqueezeCenter, and let you run it from a
web interface.
Was there a conscious decision to not allow that configuration?

I agree with the above quote. It is hard to believe that logitech
forces you to buy the controller.

[mortslim]

It seems that logitech passed out some of these new units to some
existing customers as beta testers who apparently kept the secret till
the official announcement.

I would like to be on the beta tester list when the next iteration
appears three years hence :)

[aubuti]

Post by mortslim
It seems that logitech passed out some of these new units to some
existing customers as beta testers who apparently kept the secret till
the official announcement.
I would like to be on the beta tester list when the next iteration
appears three years hence :)

Fyi, the "secret" has had an active and public forum on these pages for
several months: http://forums.slimdevices.com/forumdisplay.php?f=19 .
But don't tell anyone about it, okay? ;o)

[radish]

Post by mortslim
I also assume that your own computer can control the new receiver so you
really don't need any remote (neither the new one nor the old one).

Once it's setup on the network, yes. It will basically look like any
other player to either the new controller or the SqueezeCenter web
interface.

[Mnyb]

A possibillity, would be if logitech could offer some kind off
"preconfig" service untill SC gets the abillity to set IP in SBR

[mortslim]

"the Controller? It doesn't manage the collection locally, but
communicates with SqueezeCenter. It will only keep those items in
memory which are to be displayed."

Thus from what the above quote implies and what can be gleaned from
other posts, it seems that the controller communicates either with the
squeezenetwork or with slimserver (which will become squeezecenter soon
as I understand it is the new name for the merger of the squeezenetwork
and the slimserver into one common interface, to be run either by your
own computer or by the servers at logitech's slim devices division).

[marlowe]

Post by ModelCitizen

Post by ModelCitizen
In the US the Duo costs 399.99 US Dollars (equiv. to 172.103 UK

Pounds)

Post by ModelCitizen
but in the UK it costs 551.17 US Dollars (279 UK Pounds)
What possible justification can there be for this almost 40% price

hike

Post by ModelCitizen
for UK buyers?

Er, I think your sums may have gone a little awry.
$399.99 converted directly to UKP is £202.63
There will also be import duty - not sure exactly how much, but let's
say 10%. That brings us to £222.89.
That's not all that much different to £279.99 is it.
R.

The import duty applies to the price, that the company importing the SB
to the EU pays. That, I am sure, is not the US retail price. Probably
not even half that price. I think the duty is 3,5%, though not sure. So
duty isn't going to amount to much.

[ModelCitizen]

Post by Robin Bowes
Er, I think your sums may have gone a little awry.
$399.99 converted directly to UKP is £202.63

You must get a better rate than me then.....

:-)

Yup, looks like I screwed the conversion up.

MC
--
ModelCitizen

It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist
in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

Transporter > Bryston 4B ST > PMC OB1s
SB3 > NAIM NAC 102 + HICAP > NAIM NAP 180 > Shahinian Arcs
http://www.last.fm/user/ModelCitizen
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[mecouc]

The new controller doesn't seem to have enough buttons.

How would I use it to type a search when there are no alphanumeric
buttons? It doesn't have a touch screen for that does it? No.. can't
do... else there'd be no buttons at all.

[radish]

Post by mecouc
The new controller doesn't seem to have enough buttons.
How would I use it to type a search when there are no alphanumeric
buttons? It doesn't have a touch screen for that does it? No.. can't
do... else there'd be no buttons at all.

Text entry is via the scroll wheel. It actually works quite well
assuming you're not trying to type essays :)

[Mnyb]

Post by ModelCitizen
In the US the Duo costs 399.99 US Dollars (equiv. to 172.103 UK Pounds)
but in the UK it costs 551.17 US Dollars (279 UK Pounds)
What possible justification can there be for this almost 40% price hike
for UK buyers?
MC

None IMHO, but does the US price include sales tax, it's common EU
practice to anounce comsumer prices inluding taxes. US have diffent
sales tax in different states.
So it's maybe not 40% but anyway i think like you and I don't like it.

It's not the money i can afford one now no problemo. It's the principle
why ****** european buyers.

[toby10]

Post by Mnyb
None IMHO, but does the US price include sales tax, it's common EU
practice to anounce comsumer prices inluding taxes. US have diffent
sales tax in different states.
So it's maybe not 40% but anyway i think like you and I don't like it.
It's not the money i can afford one now no problemo. It's the principle
why ****** european buyers.

The price is higher in Great Britain cuz us Colonists are still pissed
at the Brits for the Stamp Act. (just kidding) *wink*

Just to clarify, prices in the US almost never include Sales Tax as
each State, County and (sometimes) Cities impose different rates of
Point of Purchase Sales Tax rates. It usually is around 5% to 8% total
Sales Tax.

The one advantage to our overly bloated and outrageously disorganized
form of government here in the good old USA is that we consumers can
quite often get around these sales taxes. If I order a SB sold from
California and mailed to me in Ohio there is no sales tax charged by
the seller. There are rules that sometimes force the seller to charge
this sales tax, mail order or not, but I won't go into that here.

Sadly, our over spending and wasteful State governments are catching on
to this 50 year old "loop hole" and are closing in on such tax avoidance
schemes. :(

[ModelCitizen]

Post by toby10
The one advantage to our overly bloated and outrageously disorganized
form of government here

You've obviously no experience of uk government bureaucracy then.....
:-)

MC
--
ModelCitizen

It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist
in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.

Transporter > Bryston 4B ST > PMC OB1s
SB3 > NAIM NAC 102 + HICAP > NAIM NAP 180 > Shahinian Arcs
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[dean blackketter]

Post by Phil Meyer
How long will the Controller's full battery charge last?

That depends on the usage. Constant usage is around 3 hours now, but
that's without any power management at all. When the screen dims
and the wireless goes in to power-saving mode, the life goes way up.

Post by Phil Meyer
I assume the thing it's sitting in is a charging cradle, which
means it needs to be plugged in, so it would not sit well on a
coffee table in the center of a room.

Probably not. Better a side table where you can have a wire to keep
it charged. When it's in the charging stand it acts as a Now Playing
screensaver while playing, or defaults to a clock screensaver when not.

Post by Phil Meyer
Does the device remain on all the time;

Yes.

Post by Phil Meyer
if not, how long would it take to be functional from power-off?

From inserting the battery, through cold-boot, wireless association
and connection to the server is about 40 seconds at this point, or
half what my cell phone takes. :)

[Phil Meyer]

Post by dean blackketter
That depends on the usage. Constant usage is around 3 hours now, but
that's without any power management at all. When the screen dims
and the wireless goes in to power-saving mode, the life goes way up.

About the same as a PDA then, but I understand that the UI feels more responsive than using the WebUI through a PDA.

Phil

[lreinstein]

Post by dean blackketter

Post by Phil Meyer
How long will the Controller's full battery charge last?

That depends on the usage. Constant usage is around 3 hours now, but
that's without any power management at all. When the screen dims
and the wireless goes in to power-saving mode, the life goes way up.

Post by Phil Meyer
I assume the thing it's sitting in is a charging cradle, which
means it needs to be plugged in, so it would not sit well on a
coffee table in the center of a room.

Probably not. Better a side table where you can have a wire to keep
it charged. When it's in the charging stand it acts as a Now Playing
screensaver while playing, or defaults to a clock screensaver when not.

Post by Phil Meyer
Does the device remain on all the time;

Yes.

Post by Phil Meyer
if not, how long would it take to be functional from power-off?

From inserting the battery, through cold-boot, wireless association
and connection to the server is about 40 seconds at this point, or
half what my cell phone takes. :)

I think this has been asked, but dont quite understand the answers...
do you think that the new controller will be sold as a stand alone to
work with my existing SB3? For me, that would be the best combination
since I like the SB3 display but think the graphic controller would be
a great addition. But I would rather not pay for the receiver since in
effect I already own one (and just bought it last week!)
larry

[Mitch Harding]

Yes, the controller and receiver will be available separately, as well
as together. The web site has prices for them individually as well as
combined. $150 SBR, $300 SBC, $400 both.

On Jan 6, 2008 4:35 PM, lreinstein

Post by lreinstein

Post by dean blackketter

Post by Phil Meyer
How long will the Controller's full battery charge last?

That depends on the usage. Constant usage is around 3 hours now, but
that's without any power management at all. When the screen dims
and the wireless goes in to power-saving mode, the life goes way up.

Post by Phil Meyer
I assume the thing it's sitting in is a charging cradle, which
means it needs to be plugged in, so it would not sit well on a
coffee table in the center of a room.

Probably not. Better a side table where you can have a wire to keep
it charged. When it's in the charging stand it acts as a Now Playing
screensaver while playing, or defaults to a clock screensaver when not.

Post by Phil Meyer
Does the device remain on all the time;

Yes.

Post by Phil Meyer
if not, how long would it take to be functional from power-off?

From inserting the battery, through cold-boot, wireless association
and connection to the server is about 40 seconds at this point, or
half what my cell phone takes. :)

I think this has been asked, but dont quite understand the answers...
do you think that the new controller will be sold as a stand alone to
work with my existing SB3? For me, that would be the best combination
since I like the SB3 display but think the graphic controller would be
a great addition. But I would rather not pay for the receiver since in
effect I already own one (and just bought it last week!)
larry
--
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[toby10]

Mike

I WANT ONE! Just bill it to Sean Adams account. :)

The posted screen shots are nice. Are there plans to eventually post
some screen shots of what the screen *actually* will be displaying in
regards to Internet Radio feeds?

Thanks. :)

[bretonfou]

I loved the initial product since it was focussed on high sound quality
with interesting features like an open source client/server.

The new commander look to me as a mere wifi micro PDA, ideally
one could control any streaming media server with
any form of computing device with communication facility
(it could be my macbook, a bluetooth phone, a wifi phone, a pda or what
people calle a smart phone).

Well is that really usefull ?

I have an Ati HF (15 euros) remote command and a high quality
DAC (second hand for 500 euros) it's much better.


Before i had a squeezebox, i enjoyed it but i broke down after 18
monthes and there is no way to fix it and the warranty is over.


The advantage of using something else than what logitec sell is that it
can be repaired.

I will never pay 500 $ for a portable micro PC
with wifi that would probable break down after 13 monthes just when the
legal warrant is over. A standard PDA, and wireless remote command
(bluetooth, infrared or HF) are a much safer solution.


I had a squeezebox, i liked it but paying 299 euros each 13 monthes is
quite a lot.

I will miss the clear display of the squeezebox, there is still nothing
has good but i m sure that soon add ons for amarok
xmms or any other player will offer a very clear display on any PC
screen.


Soon too clients runnning on any PDA or smartphone will be available.


The slimbox was there 2-3 years ago at that time it was unexpensive and
new. Today the product are overpriced
and not even at the edge of the possibilities.

[danco]

Post by bretonfou
Before i had a squeezebox, i enjoyed it but i broke down after 18
monthes and there is no way to fix it and the warranty is over.
The advantage of using something else than what logitec sell is that it
can be repaired.

How long ago did it break down?

the warranty has been *two* years, not one, for some time, I think.

And, of course, there is great variability as to what devices can be
repaired at a reasonable price.

[IRJ]

I need some clarification.

If I have say an existing SB1 or 2 or 3, can I add a new SBR and
control both from my existing WiFi PDA?

[dean blackketter]

Post by IRJ
I need some clarification.
If I have say an existing SB1 or 2 or 3, can I add a new SBR and
control both from my existing WiFi PDA?

At this time you need a Squeezebox Controller to set up a Squeezebox
Receiver.

[Fifer]

But not one -per- SBR? (Can you have a setup with one controller and
multiple receivers?)

[dean blackketter]

Post by Fifer
But not one -per- SBR? (Can you have a setup with one controller and
multiple receivers?)

Right. One Controller can set up and control any number of Receivers.

-dena

[IRJ]

Post by dean blackketter

Post by IRJ
I need some clarification.
If I have say an existing SB1 or 2 or 3, can I add a new SBR and
control both from my existing WiFi PDA?

At this time you need a Squeezebox Controller to set up a Squeezebox
Receiver.

Err.
Begs the question... Why?

[Mitch Harding]

They've stated elsewhere that this restriction may not always exist,
but it does right now. Probably it simplifies things for them, which
is important at the initial product launch.

Also, pet peeve of mine, "to beg the question" does not mean "to raise
the question"... Although I guess it will come to mean that, since
it's frequently used that way:
http://begthequestion.info/

On Jan 6, 2008 1:42 PM, IRJ

Post by IRJ

Post by dean blackketter
At this time you need a Squeezebox Controller to set up a Squeezebox
Receiver.

Err.
Begs the question... Why?
--
IRJ
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[bretonfou]

I loved the initial product since it was focussed on high sound quality
with interesting features like an open source client/server.

The new commander look to me as a mere wifi micro PDA, ideally
one could control any streaming media server with
any form of computing device with communication facility
(it could be my macbook, a bluetooth phone, a wifi phone, a pda or what
people calle a smart phone).

Well is that really usefull ?

I have an Ati HF (15 euros) remote command and a high quality
DAC (second hand for 500 euros) it's much better.


Before i had a squeezebox, i enjoyed it but i broke down after 18
monthes and there is no way to fix it and the warranty is over.


The advantage of using something else than what logitec sell is that it
can be repaired.

I will never pay 500 $ for a portable micro PC
with wifi that would probable break down after 13 monthes just when the
legal warrant is over. A standard PDA, and wireless remote command
(bluetooth, infrared or HF) are a much safer solution.


I had a squeezebox, i liked it but paying 299 euros each 13 monthes is
quite a lot.

I will miss the clear display of the squeezebox, there is still nothing
has good but i m sure that soon add ons for amarok
xmms or any other player will offer a very clear display on any PC
screen.


Soon too clients runnning on any PDA or smartphone will be available.


The slimbox was there 2-3 years ago at that time it was unexpensive and
new. Today the product are overpriced
and not even at the edge of the possibilities.

[lreinstein]

Post by mvalera
I'm happy to announce that we have launched the all new Squeezebox™
Duet!
Squeezebox™ Duet lets you listen to the music you love in any room in
your home. Access millions of songs — even when your computer is off.
The multi-room controller with 2.4-inch color display makes it easy to
browse, select, and play songs from your personal collection, Internet
radio — even online music services.
Congrats...this looks amazing!
My problem--
I just bought the SB3 (arrived only last week!) but LOVE the design of
your new controller and interface. Will I be able to return and
upgrade?
Larry

[Mitch Harding]

They have a 30 day no questions asked return policy, unless things
have changed, so I don't see why you couldn't.

On Jan 6, 2008 4:24 PM, lreinstein

Post by lreinstein

Post by mvalera
Congrats...this looks amazing!
My problem--
I just bought the SB3 (arrived only last week!) but LOVE the design of
your new controller and interface. Will I be able to return and
upgrade?
Larry

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[IRJ]

Sadly these this restriction will mean I will refrain from buying more
slimdevices until it is lifted (or hacked). I need more machines. In
the meantime I AM at risk of looking towards other products. Don't mean
to be unpleasant, but that's my perspective.

[Ian_F]

First of all, congratulations on the announcement of the new product(s).
I've no doubt there are some very worried people over at Sonos HQ!

Looking through the specs (under the System requirements
'_on_this_page_' (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html)) I see
you're quoting 256MB of RAM as a requirement. Is that number correct?
If it is, I guess I need to factor in the cost of a new host if I'm
going to get the Duet since my trusty QNAP is not gonna make the grade
:-(

[dean blackketter]

Post by Ian_F
First of all, congratulations on the announcement of the new product
(s).
I've no doubt there are some very worried people over at Sonos HQ!
Looking through the specs (under the System requirements
'_on_this_page_' (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html)) I see
you're quoting 256MB of RAM as a requirement. Is that number correct?
If it is, I guess I need to factor in the cost of a new host if I'm
going to get the Duet since my trusty QNAP is not gonna make the grade
:-(

The new hardware doesn't add any new requirements to your host setup,
but running SqueezeCenter 7.0 might. I don't know the status of
running SC7 on QNAP, but if it runs well there, then the new hardware
should work fine.

[Ian_F]

Post by Ian_F

Post by Ian_F
First of all, congratulations on the announcement of the new product
(s).
I've no doubt there are some very worried people over at Sonos HQ!
Looking through the specs (under the System requirements
'_on_this_page_' (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_duet.html)) I see
you're quoting 256MB of RAM as a requirement. Is that number

correct?

Post by Ian_F
If it is, I guess I need to factor in the cost of a new host if I'm
going to get the Duet since my trusty QNAP is not gonna make the

grade

Post by Ian_F
:-(

The new hardware doesn't add any new requirements to your host setup,
but running SqueezeCenter 7.0 might. I don't know the status of
running SC7 on QNAP, but if it runs well there, then the new hardware
should work fine.

Thanks for the prompt reply Dean. I'll just sit tight for now then. I
don't believe anyone has SC7 up and running on the QNAP yet but I've
been away from the scene for a few weeks so I may be mistaken. It won't
be a show stopper if I do have to upgrade it. Boys and their toys and
all that ;-)

[Timothy Stockman]

Some really really big pics for those who want them (The LCD is
Loading Image...

Good choice of music!