[Goanet]INSULT TO GOANS.

[Gabe Menezes]

Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?




http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.

[Gabe Menezes]

Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?




http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.

[George Pinto]

In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against Indians is ok. I guess
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.

George

Post by Gabe Menezes
Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?
http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/
Cheers,
Gabe Menezes.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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[Gabe Menezes]

With due respect, if it was a white person or a black person or a Chinese
for that matter my stance would have been the same. It was factually
incorrect to promote the Rajasthani Woman as a native of Goa. If she was
promoted as a native of India then I nor anyone else would be hard pressed
to have any qualms about it!

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes



Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS

Post by George Pinto
In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are Indians)

or insulted by western

Post by George Pinto
colonial influences in Goa?
Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against

Indians is ok. I guess

Post by George Pinto
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.
George

[Gabe Menezes]

With due respect, if it was a white person or a black person or a Chinese
for that matter my stance would have been the same. It was factually
incorrect to promote the Rajasthani Woman as a native of Goa. If she was
promoted as a native of India then I nor anyone else would be hard pressed
to have any qualms about it!

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes



Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS

Post by George Pinto
In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are Indians)

or insulted by western

Post by George Pinto
colonial influences in Goa?
Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against

Indians is ok. I guess

Post by George Pinto
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.
George

[Gabe Menezes]

With due respect, if it was a white person or a black person or a Chinese
for that matter my stance would have been the same. It was factually
incorrect to promote the Rajasthani Woman as a native of Goa. If she was
promoted as a native of India then I nor anyone else would be hard pressed
to have any qualms about it!

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes



Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS

Post by George Pinto
In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are Indians)

or insulted by western

Post by George Pinto
colonial influences in Goa?
Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against

Indians is ok. I guess

Post by George Pinto
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.
George

[Gabe Menezes]

With due respect, if it was a white person or a black person or a Chinese
for that matter my stance would have been the same. It was factually
incorrect to promote the Rajasthani Woman as a native of Goa. If she was
promoted as a native of India then I nor anyone else would be hard pressed
to have any qualms about it!

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes



Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS

Post by George Pinto
In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are Indians)

or insulted by western

Post by George Pinto
colonial influences in Goa?
Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against

Indians is ok. I guess

Post by George Pinto
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.
George

[Gabe Menezes]

With due respect, if it was a white person or a black person or a Chinese
for that matter my stance would have been the same. It was factually
incorrect to promote the Rajasthani Woman as a native of Goa. If she was
promoted as a native of India then I nor anyone else would be hard pressed
to have any qualms about it!

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes



Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS

Post by George Pinto
In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are Indians)

or insulted by western

Post by George Pinto
colonial influences in Goa?
Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against

Indians is ok. I guess

Post by George Pinto
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.
George

[Bernado Colaco]

Dear George,

It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that feeds
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?

Colaco

--- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote: > In
the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of

Post by George Pinto
churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians
(many Goans are Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

________________________________________________________________________
Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams

[George Pinto]

It is difficult to stab the hand that feeds me since I feed myself.
I am not scared of Goans or Indians or Westerners but ignorance that fuels your prejudices.

George

Post by Bernado Colaco
Dear George,
It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that feeds
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?
Colaco

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Let me give my two cents to this argument...

Suppose a magazine needs photographs of a London image. Say they want to
photograph Piccadilly Circus or Leicester Square and some Eastern
Europeans are in the background and someone puts a label saying London
native people.

Does anyone feel this makes sense? They are indeed Europeans, they are
of the same white skin colour, but they are not London natives. And the
differences are so obvious, starting with their way of dressing so
characteristic of Eastern Europe.

But this situation would never happen in reality and you know why?
Because someone or the other would have noticed the obvious mistake and
corrected the label. There is no problem or prejudice if they are in the
background of the photograph. The only problem is that the label is
wrong!
And if it had gone to press, the magazine would have been probably black
listed in the UK and demanded to rectify the mistake in the next issue.


This is because there is in the west attention to detail.

I cannot say the same about India. In India there is hardly any detail
whatsoever.
People just say, write and do what they want and hardly anybody cares
about the consequences. In Goa it is the sossegado concept kicking in.
In India it is really a "couldn't care less" attitude.

Even earlier this week, the Times of India, 29 Nov. reported that Mando
festival turned Goa into a mini Singapore.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/328892.cms
http://in.news.yahoo.com/031128/139/29y45.html

The article contains mistaken testimonies. The facts are incorrect and
it is sad that such things are being written in the media without any
factual and historical validation! I guess it is not the first time and
it won't be the last because nobody really cares and it is being written
by and for a real bunch of ignorants!

The dresses have a name are usually known as bazu-toddop and are not
Singaporean but of Malay origin. The Portuguese didn't use to go to
Singapore. That is wrong. Singapore was nothing else but a very small
fishermen village and really only became one of the most important ports
in the world in the last two centuries with the British. The Portuguese
used to go to Malacca (which was another Portuguese colony from 1511 to
1641, taken over by the Dutch and is today a state of Malaysia). The
Bazu-tuddop are known to be of Malay origin, not Singaporean.

The origins of the Mando are debatable and there are lots of theories
but I don't think the Portuguese can take full credit for the music like
the article says. At the most, that is one of the theories...

Best regards
Paulo Colaco Dias.


-----Original Message-----
From: goanet-admin at goanet.org [mailto:goanet-admin at goanet.org] On Behalf
Of George Pinto
Sent: 05 December 2003 01:38
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS

In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western
architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are
Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link
below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against
Indians is ok. I guess
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.

George

Post by Gabe Menezes
Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was

perhaps the

Post by Gabe Menezes
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with

those who

Post by Gabe Menezes
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out

this

Post by Gabe Menezes
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo

?

Post by Gabe Menezes
whooo?
http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/
Cheers,
Gabe Menezes.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/

########################################################################
##
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts
#
# More details on Goanet at http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/
#
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to reflect respect to others
#
########################################################################
##

[Eddie Fernandes]

Folks,

The photograph in question is by Eddie Gerald so I wrote to him,
mail at geophotos.com asking if he believed the subject of the photograph to
be a Goan woman and I invited him to view the Goanet archive. His response
was:
....................
Yes this shot was taken at one of the northern beaches in Goa. She was
selling some stuff in the market.
BTW I checked the forum and found it very interesting.

Cheers,
Eddie Gerald
http://www.geophotos.com
P [phone]
F [phone]
....................
I was also puzzled by the consensus of the aggrieved that the woman in
question was first, either a Rajastani or Kashmiri and later they decided
that she was a Rajastani. I have looked at photographs of Rajasthani and
Kashmiri women and was unable to find the affinity with the photograph. I
then looked through the 283 pages book, People of Goa, edited by Shriodkar
and Mandal, Anthropological Survey of India, 1993. ISBN 81-7154-760-5. In
it, 34 communities are defined as constituting Goans. From the photographs
and the description I am more inclined to believe that the woman in the
photograph is either a Gauda or Lamani. I make no claims at being an expert
and accept that I may be mistaken. However I would like the injured to
substantiate their claim that she is Rajasthani.

I also accept that Eddie Gerald may have made a mistake in labelling her as
a Goan woman. What I find abhorrent is the use of words like

"gives a cheap image about us,"

"is a big insult to the Goans" and

"Anything can happen if non-Goans lead the Goan Tourism delegation and
non-Goan happens to be the Tourism Director of Goa."

I like to believe that we live in a multicultural world and appreciate the
value of diversity. Some of the views expressed in this forum have been
chilling.


Eddie Fernandes

[Eddie Fernandes]

Folks,

The photograph in question is by Eddie Gerald so I wrote to him,
mail at geophotos.com asking if he believed the subject of the photograph to
be a Goan woman and I invited him to view the Goanet archive. His response
was:
....................
Yes this shot was taken at one of the northern beaches in Goa. She was
selling some stuff in the market.
BTW I checked the forum and found it very interesting.

Cheers,
Eddie Gerald
http://www.geophotos.com
P [phone]
F [phone]
....................
I was also puzzled by the consensus of the aggrieved that the woman in
question was first, either a Rajastani or Kashmiri and later they decided
that she was a Rajastani. I have looked at photographs of Rajasthani and
Kashmiri women and was unable to find the affinity with the photograph. I
then looked through the 283 pages book, People of Goa, edited by Shriodkar
and Mandal, Anthropological Survey of India, 1993. ISBN 81-7154-760-5. In
it, 34 communities are defined as constituting Goans. From the photographs
and the description I am more inclined to believe that the woman in the
photograph is either a Gauda or Lamani. I make no claims at being an expert
and accept that I may be mistaken. However I would like the injured to
substantiate their claim that she is Rajasthani.

I also accept that Eddie Gerald may have made a mistake in labelling her as
a Goan woman. What I find abhorrent is the use of words like

"gives a cheap image about us,"

"is a big insult to the Goans" and

"Anything can happen if non-Goans lead the Goan Tourism delegation and
non-Goan happens to be the Tourism Director of Goa."

I like to believe that we live in a multicultural world and appreciate the
value of diversity. Some of the views expressed in this forum have been
chilling.


Eddie Fernandes

[Eddie Fernandes]

Folks,

The photograph in question is by Eddie Gerald so I wrote to him,
mail at geophotos.com asking if he believed the subject of the photograph to
be a Goan woman and I invited him to view the Goanet archive. His response
was:
....................
Yes this shot was taken at one of the northern beaches in Goa. She was
selling some stuff in the market.
BTW I checked the forum and found it very interesting.

Cheers,
Eddie Gerald
http://www.geophotos.com
P [phone]
F [phone]
....................
I was also puzzled by the consensus of the aggrieved that the woman in
question was first, either a Rajastani or Kashmiri and later they decided
that she was a Rajastani. I have looked at photographs of Rajasthani and
Kashmiri women and was unable to find the affinity with the photograph. I
then looked through the 283 pages book, People of Goa, edited by Shriodkar
and Mandal, Anthropological Survey of India, 1993. ISBN 81-7154-760-5. In
it, 34 communities are defined as constituting Goans. From the photographs
and the description I am more inclined to believe that the woman in the
photograph is either a Gauda or Lamani. I make no claims at being an expert
and accept that I may be mistaken. However I would like the injured to
substantiate their claim that she is Rajasthani.

I also accept that Eddie Gerald may have made a mistake in labelling her as
a Goan woman. What I find abhorrent is the use of words like

"gives a cheap image about us,"

"is a big insult to the Goans" and

"Anything can happen if non-Goans lead the Goan Tourism delegation and
non-Goan happens to be the Tourism Director of Goa."

I like to believe that we live in a multicultural world and appreciate the
value of diversity. Some of the views expressed in this forum have been
chilling.


Eddie Fernandes

[Eddie Fernandes]

Folks,

The photograph in question is by Eddie Gerald so I wrote to him,
mail at geophotos.com asking if he believed the subject of the photograph to
be a Goan woman and I invited him to view the Goanet archive. His response
was:
....................
Yes this shot was taken at one of the northern beaches in Goa. She was
selling some stuff in the market.
BTW I checked the forum and found it very interesting.

Cheers,
Eddie Gerald
http://www.geophotos.com
P [phone]
F [phone]
....................
I was also puzzled by the consensus of the aggrieved that the woman in
question was first, either a Rajastani or Kashmiri and later they decided
that she was a Rajastani. I have looked at photographs of Rajasthani and
Kashmiri women and was unable to find the affinity with the photograph. I
then looked through the 283 pages book, People of Goa, edited by Shriodkar
and Mandal, Anthropological Survey of India, 1993. ISBN 81-7154-760-5. In
it, 34 communities are defined as constituting Goans. From the photographs
and the description I am more inclined to believe that the woman in the
photograph is either a Gauda or Lamani. I make no claims at being an expert
and accept that I may be mistaken. However I would like the injured to
substantiate their claim that she is Rajasthani.

I also accept that Eddie Gerald may have made a mistake in labelling her as
a Goan woman. What I find abhorrent is the use of words like

"gives a cheap image about us,"

"is a big insult to the Goans" and

"Anything can happen if non-Goans lead the Goan Tourism delegation and
non-Goan happens to be the Tourism Director of Goa."

I like to believe that we live in a multicultural world and appreciate the
value of diversity. Some of the views expressed in this forum have been
chilling.


Eddie Fernandes

[Eddie Fernandes]

Folks,

The photograph in question is by Eddie Gerald so I wrote to him,
mail at geophotos.com asking if he believed the subject of the photograph to
be a Goan woman and I invited him to view the Goanet archive. His response
was:
....................
Yes this shot was taken at one of the northern beaches in Goa. She was
selling some stuff in the market.
BTW I checked the forum and found it very interesting.

Cheers,
Eddie Gerald
http://www.geophotos.com
P [phone]
F [phone]
....................
I was also puzzled by the consensus of the aggrieved that the woman in
question was first, either a Rajastani or Kashmiri and later they decided
that she was a Rajastani. I have looked at photographs of Rajasthani and
Kashmiri women and was unable to find the affinity with the photograph. I
then looked through the 283 pages book, People of Goa, edited by Shriodkar
and Mandal, Anthropological Survey of India, 1993. ISBN 81-7154-760-5. In
it, 34 communities are defined as constituting Goans. From the photographs
and the description I am more inclined to believe that the woman in the
photograph is either a Gauda or Lamani. I make no claims at being an expert
and accept that I may be mistaken. However I would like the injured to
substantiate their claim that she is Rajasthani.

I also accept that Eddie Gerald may have made a mistake in labelling her as
a Goan woman. What I find abhorrent is the use of words like

"gives a cheap image about us,"

"is a big insult to the Goans" and

"Anything can happen if non-Goans lead the Goan Tourism delegation and
non-Goan happens to be the Tourism Director of Goa."

I like to believe that we live in a multicultural world and appreciate the
value of diversity. Some of the views expressed in this forum have been
chilling.


Eddie Fernandes

[Bernado Colaco]

People living in ivory towers should not tell us how
to go on with our lives in Goa!

Colaco

Post by Eddie Fernandes
I like to believe that we live in a multicultural
world and appreciate the
value of diversity. Some of the views expressed in
this forum have been
chilling.
Eddie Fernandes

##########################################################################

Post by Eddie Fernandes
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
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[Bernado Colaco]

Dear George,

You and many on this list (so called atheists) make a
living in a country founded on christian principles.
You live in a structure that has given you security
and a future. Imagine youself living in the Chambal
along side the dakits, wouldn't you life be that of
survival and on a few occasions dacoting into Goa?

Colaco


--- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote: > It
is difficult to stab the hand that feeds me since

Post by George Pinto
I feed myself.
I am not scared of Goans or Indians or Westerners
but ignorance that fuels your prejudices.
George

Post by Bernado Colaco
Dear George,
It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that

feeds

Post by Bernado Colaco
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?
Colaco

__________________________________
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Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/

##########################################################################

Post by George Pinto
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org
#
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa),
and avoid top-posts #
# More details on Goanet at
http://joingoanet.shorturl.com/ #
# Please keep your discussion/tone polite, to
reflect respect to others #

##########################################################################

________________________________________________________________________
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[Bosco - Goanet Volunteer]

On 7 Dec 2003 18:57:38 -0000, "Jerry Fernandes" <jerryfer at rediffmail.com> wrote:

hello goanetters,

finally comes a time when goans as being written by various writers feel
offended, insulted all because of one photo. but goans never felt insulted when
ministers gave ration cards (a type of proof that they have full goan right to
vote,) to outsiders so that they would get elected, they never felt insulted
when konkani our language the one that we speak was given up for devanagri
konkani, which i find very difficult to understand (not even the top man of
church supported it inspite of having all gospels read in church are in roman
script). if one has not heard it than the best place to hear is our own
doordarshan. than we never felt insulted when most of the jobs meant for goans
are given for outsiders who are willing to pay top bucks for the jobs. Hence
maybe most goans run to gulf countries leaving their loved ones behind who once
they come back on their vacation are more strangers in their own home land than
these outsiders. we never feel insulted when we speak in english even to the
people who are fluent in konkani, or vice versa.

pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking.

jerry

[Tim de Mello]

from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking."

Excellent post.

Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes <helga at gwi.net>.

Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually, pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this forum.

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Romel De Melo]

Yes, we have to rise above the squallor, keep our sanity and engage
ourselves with more meanignful tasks, like keeping our Concani languagea
alive, carry on with the 'mandos', sing praises about Goa and Goans who have
made it good and excelled. This is all much ado about nothing.

Romel


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Tim de Mello" <timdemello2 at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 20:05:34 -0500

from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking."

Excellent post.

Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes <helga at gwi.net>.

Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually, pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this forum.

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

_________________________________________________________________
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##########################################################################
# Send submissions for Goanet to goanet at goanet.org #
# PLEASE remember to stay on-topic (related to Goa), and avoid top-posts #
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Romel

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[vivek araujo]

A VERY HAPPY FEAST TO ALL THE READERS AND WRITERS ON
THIS GREAT DAY OF OUR LADY OF IMMACULATE
CONCEPTION.BOAS FESTAS

Very well said, a few months ago there was an article
can't recall the heading, about requesting all the
goans overseas to form a formidable party in goa and
do away all the problems you had mentioned although
not all,but nobody replied it was only GOA SURAJ who
was in praise for that article, the article also
called upon allthe goan overseas to help the
unemployed youth of goa jobs, be it overseas or in
goa. Just like the Mizoram National Front who won a
clear majority in the elections and defeated the other
parties can't we goans learn that we do not require
other outside parties to dictate terms on us be it
renaming of roads,or such strange issues, can't we
display our talents by becoming a unified force and
organise such a strong political party where by all
the problems mentioned by Mr. Jerry Fernandes can be
sorted out.Time for change or should we say KEDNAM TO
DIS ETOLO . Lastly Mr. Jerry , didn't you feel great
when goans come together and get united positively on
a photo issue,(keeping all things aside as mentioned
by you just for a second?)

Vivek

On 7 Dec 2003 18:57:38 -0000, "Jerry Fernandes"
hello goanetters,
finally comes a time when goans as being written by
various writers feel
offended, insulted all because of one photo. but
goans never felt insulted when
ministers gave ration cards (a type of proof that
they have full goan right to
vote,) to outsiders so that they would get elected,
they never felt insulted
when konkani our language the one that we speak was
given up for devanagri
konkani, which i find very difficult to understand
(not even the top man of
church supported it inspite of having all gospels
read in church are in roman
script). if one has not heard it than the best place
to hear is our own
doordarshan. than we never felt insulted when most
of the jobs meant for goans
are given for outsiders who are willing to pay top
bucks for the jobs. Hence
maybe most goans run to gulf countries leaving their
loved ones behind who once
they come back on their vacation are more strangers
in their own home land than
these outsiders. we never feel insulted when we
speak in english even to the
people who are fluent in konkani, or vice versa.
pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo.
Pity our thinking.
jerry

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[vivek araujo]

Oops, didn't quiet realise the petty minded goans can
creat such a great impact on the others.Mr. Tim if you
regard your self to be above the rest, from view point
of intelligence and any other aspect, shall be much
obliged if you could reply with your ideas, on the
subject matter raised by Mr. Jerry fernandes. Then
atleast I can know and feel and say proudly HO AMCHO
KHORO GOENKAR.

Vivek


--- Tim de Mello <timdemello2 at hotmail.com> wrote: >
from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

Post by Tim de Mello
". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one
photo. Pity our thinking."
Excellent post.
Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes
<helga at gwi.net>.
Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually,
pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this
forum.
Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Nasci Caldeira]

Hey Marlon, and other readers,

I Nasci have never attacked migrants and their cheap culture; never. I have
always appreciated your 'sense of humour' too. A thousand flowers should
bloom; else it would be a boring world indeed!

What I am resenting in some of my submissions is: the sheer audacity of some
people and groups and political parties included in "imposing their view and
philosophy of life" on others. These types do not show any tolerence and
this is most prevalent in India. There has to be respect and tolerence for
all cultures and ways of life; as long as these do not infringe on the
fundamental and normal rights of others.

Who the hell are these people to impose 'cow slaughter ban'' when the whole
world revels in eating 'Beef'. Beef has been the best meat and tastiest by
far for most people. If some groups and individuals do not want that; they
are free to do as they like.

But since India is and has been for a long time now, a multi cultural and
secular Country; it is incumbent on everyone specially politicians and the
like to respect and tolerate all; so much so there should be special
servings of pork, beef, mutton and or chicken, snake etc for all to revel in
according to their likes, at New Delhi banqets for Indians and foreign
guests alike. China does it so also Malaysia, Japan etc. And these are all
Asian Countries. No wonder China is one big leap ahead in 'gourmet food.
sports and even technology. What a shame. Hindutva wallahs: Stop imposing
these "idiosyncracies' on others. The sooner the better.

Hoping all Indians learn to think 'Modern' and not drown in the past 'Abyss'
they are just coming out of. Then the country will make real progress in all
faculties by leaps and bounds.
I am proud of being a Goan Indian in genes type and culture.
Nasci Caldeira

From: Marlon Menezes <marlon at goacom.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:51:52 -0800 (PST)
It is interesting that Nasci, Ivor et al who live as
immigrants and migrants outside India, choose to
engage in questionable attacks against migrants and
their "cheap culture".
Vivek in his comments below even seems to rationlize
the methods used by exremists like the sh*t sena when
he says "each community has a different way of
preserving things, what is food for one maybe poison
for other". I'm sorry Vivek, but comments like these
are an insult to Goans. We do not believe in ethnic
cleansing.
It looks like some people, in the blind hatred of
non-goans who live in Goa, have chosen to jump the gun
about an article that happened to show Rajasthanies
selling their wares in the Anjuna flea market. Nasci
incorrectly states that the picture was an advert for
Goa, when in fact it was simply one of many pictures
embedded in an article on Anjuna beach and other
places in Goa. As others have asked, please show us
any thing in the article that suggested that the
Rajasthanies were in fact Goans. If you can't then,
you really need to go back and evaluate your attitudes
towards people's of other cultures and religions.
Marlon

The alleged picture of the Rajastani dress woman in
the Ad for Goa is off
the top; but I would not say it is an insult to
Goans. The woman or any
other persons depicted should have had some Goan
Costumes and or
contemporary styles of dress; this should have been
in the main, with the
Rajastani shown as one of other Indians also
visiting in Goa.
What other groups do, say extremists as mentioned by
Mr. Marlon to the extent of preserving thier pure
culture is upto them, each community has a different
way of preserving things, what is food for one may
be
poison for other. The other extremists are unique in
their own way be it good or bad and we are unique in
our way. There is nothing wrong to be associated
with
groups as long as your path is right.
Nothing cheapens goan culture, as it has always been
supreme and will always remain , when goan culture
cheapens is when Mr. Marlon thinks it in a cheap
way,
here we are talking in terms of Insult to Goans

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[Tim de Mello]

Just jumping in . . .

re: "that a pic was published of a rajasthani/kashmiri with the background
picture of one of the GOAN beach, . . . "

seems to have outraged some on this forum.

Would the same sense of outrage be expressed if there was a white woman
shown on the beach?

Just curious.


Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Nasci Caldeira]

Hi Tim,

You are way off the mark! Rajastanis and Kasmiris are different from Goan
dress culture, in the first place.As for the foreign women and or men of
European origin; they visit Rajastan, Goa and Kasmir too, except for now it
is a 'terrorist area'. So your hypothetical question makes no sense. You are
just trying to find fault and argue without thinking! I think this line of
talk should stop; and instead all our energies be directed to " Lonely
Planet" tourist guide. which is showing so much 'Ignorance; Thaks Gabe for
the enlightenment, in this affair.

Nasci Caldeira.

Post by Romel De Melo
From: "Tim de Mello" <timdemello2 at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:07:02 -0500
Just jumping in . . .
re: "that a pic was published of a rajasthani/kashmiri with the background
picture of one of the GOAN beach, . . . "
seems to have outraged some on this forum.
Would the same sense of outrage be expressed if there was a white woman
shown on the beach?
Just curious.
Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA
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[Ivor D'Cunha]

To All Goan ? Netters

Much has been talked about the Article I wrote, first of all I would like to
thank to those who supported me and Secondly I would like to repeat it again
for those who were not clear about it.

This is a feature about Goa (titled Discover Goa) which has appeared in Abu
Dhabi Airport Magazine and distributed all over Abu Dhabi along with the
local daily and also kept at the Airport for free distribution, along with
the article there is a picture of Anjuna beach and a Rajastani lady, nothing
is mentioned about the pictures. I called up the Travel agency who had put
up that article and they directed me towards Indian Tourism in Dubai. When I
checked with the Indian Tourism office in Dubai about the picture they told
me one was about a famous Goan beach and the other of a Goan lady, when I
asked more about it they said it was received from India and have no idea.
Am not against any one or any state but my point is when we have our own
people why we have picture of other people as Goan lady, next time they will
put up picture of slums as traditional Goan houses, for those who would like
to have a look at this picture can check on this site

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/lpi_slides/htmshell/indian_subcontinent/goa/sl-3.htm

There was another incident in few months? back at he Travel Mart in Dubai,
Goa had its own pavilion and when some Goans visited it they were surprised
to see some girls dancing to the tune of Vengaboys music and dressed in mini
skirt and short blouses, when questioned why the traditional dekhnis and
Mandoos were not played, Mr. Martin Joseph (Managing Director of Freedom
holidays Goa) said that ? if you play the Goan folk music no one will visit
Goa, at least with this type of Music you can attract business.?

Well my fellow Goan ? Netters for some this may be a small thing because
some of them are settled at the other end of the World and any thing about
Goa doesn?t matter much other than critics, but for Goans who are really
concerned about Goa this is a big Issue, I had put up this matter on Goa-net
to create awareness among Goans and get support.

Whatever the Critics may be I have already taken up this matter and written
to some to the people concerned and will try an get an explanation and will
also take up the issue personally when I go down to Goa in Jan 2004

Anything can happen if non-Goans lead the Goan Tourism delegation and
non-Goan happens to be the Tourism Director of Goa.

VIVA GOEANKAR

_________________________________________________________________
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[Gabe Menezes]

Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?




http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.

[Gabe Menezes]

Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?




http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.

[George Pinto]

In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against Indians is ok. I guess
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.

George

Post by Gabe Menezes
Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?
http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/
Cheers,
Gabe Menezes.

__________________________________
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[Bernado Colaco]

Dear George,

It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that feeds
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?

Colaco

--- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote: > In
the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of

Post by George Pinto
churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians
(many Goans are Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

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[George Pinto]

It is difficult to stab the hand that feeds me since I feed myself.
I am not scared of Goans or Indians or Westerners but ignorance that fuels your prejudices.

George

Post by Bernado Colaco
Dear George,
It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that feeds
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?
Colaco

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[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Let me give my two cents to this argument...

Suppose a magazine needs photographs of a London image. Say they want to
photograph Piccadilly Circus or Leicester Square and some Eastern
Europeans are in the background and someone puts a label saying London
native people.

Does anyone feel this makes sense? They are indeed Europeans, they are
of the same white skin colour, but they are not London natives. And the
differences are so obvious, starting with their way of dressing so
characteristic of Eastern Europe.

But this situation would never happen in reality and you know why?
Because someone or the other would have noticed the obvious mistake and
corrected the label. There is no problem or prejudice if they are in the
background of the photograph. The only problem is that the label is
wrong!
And if it had gone to press, the magazine would have been probably black
listed in the UK and demanded to rectify the mistake in the next issue.


This is because there is in the west attention to detail.

I cannot say the same about India. In India there is hardly any detail
whatsoever.
People just say, write and do what they want and hardly anybody cares
about the consequences. In Goa it is the sossegado concept kicking in.
In India it is really a "couldn't care less" attitude.

Even earlier this week, the Times of India, 29 Nov. reported that Mando
festival turned Goa into a mini Singapore.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/328892.cms
http://in.news.yahoo.com/031128/139/29y45.html

The article contains mistaken testimonies. The facts are incorrect and
it is sad that such things are being written in the media without any
factual and historical validation! I guess it is not the first time and
it won't be the last because nobody really cares and it is being written
by and for a real bunch of ignorants!

The dresses have a name are usually known as bazu-toddop and are not
Singaporean but of Malay origin. The Portuguese didn't use to go to
Singapore. That is wrong. Singapore was nothing else but a very small
fishermen village and really only became one of the most important ports
in the world in the last two centuries with the British. The Portuguese
used to go to Malacca (which was another Portuguese colony from 1511 to
1641, taken over by the Dutch and is today a state of Malaysia). The
Bazu-tuddop are known to be of Malay origin, not Singaporean.

The origins of the Mando are debatable and there are lots of theories
but I don't think the Portuguese can take full credit for the music like
the article says. At the most, that is one of the theories...

Best regards
Paulo Colaco Dias.


-----Original Message-----
From: goanet-admin at goanet.org [mailto:goanet-admin at goanet.org] On Behalf
Of George Pinto
Sent: 05 December 2003 01:38
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS

In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western
architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are
Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link
below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against
Indians is ok. I guess
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.

George

Post by Gabe Menezes
Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was

perhaps the

Post by Gabe Menezes
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with

those who

Post by Gabe Menezes
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out

this

Post by Gabe Menezes
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo

?

Post by Gabe Menezes
whooo?
http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/
Cheers,
Gabe Menezes.

__________________________________
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Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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[Bernado Colaco]

People living in ivory towers should not tell us how
to go on with our lives in Goa!

Colaco

Post by Eddie Fernandes
I like to believe that we live in a multicultural
world and appreciate the
value of diversity. Some of the views expressed in
this forum have been
chilling.
Eddie Fernandes

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[Bernado Colaco]

Dear George,

You and many on this list (so called atheists) make a
living in a country founded on christian principles.
You live in a structure that has given you security
and a future. Imagine youself living in the Chambal
along side the dakits, wouldn't you life be that of
survival and on a few occasions dacoting into Goa?

Colaco


--- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote: > It
is difficult to stab the hand that feeds me since

Post by George Pinto
I feed myself.
I am not scared of Goans or Indians or Westerners
but ignorance that fuels your prejudices.
George

Post by Bernado Colaco
Dear George,
It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that

feeds

Post by Bernado Colaco
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?
Colaco

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[Bosco - Goanet Volunteer]

On 7 Dec 2003 18:57:38 -0000, "Jerry Fernandes" <jerryfer at rediffmail.com> wrote:

hello goanetters,

finally comes a time when goans as being written by various writers feel
offended, insulted all because of one photo. but goans never felt insulted when
ministers gave ration cards (a type of proof that they have full goan right to
vote,) to outsiders so that they would get elected, they never felt insulted
when konkani our language the one that we speak was given up for devanagri
konkani, which i find very difficult to understand (not even the top man of
church supported it inspite of having all gospels read in church are in roman
script). if one has not heard it than the best place to hear is our own
doordarshan. than we never felt insulted when most of the jobs meant for goans
are given for outsiders who are willing to pay top bucks for the jobs. Hence
maybe most goans run to gulf countries leaving their loved ones behind who once
they come back on their vacation are more strangers in their own home land than
these outsiders. we never feel insulted when we speak in english even to the
people who are fluent in konkani, or vice versa.

pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking.

jerry

[Tim de Mello]

from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking."

Excellent post.

Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes <helga at gwi.net>.

Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually, pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this forum.

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Romel De Melo]

Yes, we have to rise above the squallor, keep our sanity and engage
ourselves with more meanignful tasks, like keeping our Concani languagea
alive, carry on with the 'mandos', sing praises about Goa and Goans who have
made it good and excelled. This is all much ado about nothing.

Romel


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Tim de Mello" <timdemello2 at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 20:05:34 -0500

from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking."

Excellent post.

Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes <helga at gwi.net>.

Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually, pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this forum.

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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Romel

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[vivek araujo]

A VERY HAPPY FEAST TO ALL THE READERS AND WRITERS ON
THIS GREAT DAY OF OUR LADY OF IMMACULATE
CONCEPTION.BOAS FESTAS

Very well said, a few months ago there was an article
can't recall the heading, about requesting all the
goans overseas to form a formidable party in goa and
do away all the problems you had mentioned although
not all,but nobody replied it was only GOA SURAJ who
was in praise for that article, the article also
called upon allthe goan overseas to help the
unemployed youth of goa jobs, be it overseas or in
goa. Just like the Mizoram National Front who won a
clear majority in the elections and defeated the other
parties can't we goans learn that we do not require
other outside parties to dictate terms on us be it
renaming of roads,or such strange issues, can't we
display our talents by becoming a unified force and
organise such a strong political party where by all
the problems mentioned by Mr. Jerry Fernandes can be
sorted out.Time for change or should we say KEDNAM TO
DIS ETOLO . Lastly Mr. Jerry , didn't you feel great
when goans come together and get united positively on
a photo issue,(keeping all things aside as mentioned
by you just for a second?)

Vivek

On 7 Dec 2003 18:57:38 -0000, "Jerry Fernandes"
hello goanetters,
finally comes a time when goans as being written by
various writers feel
offended, insulted all because of one photo. but
goans never felt insulted when
ministers gave ration cards (a type of proof that
they have full goan right to
vote,) to outsiders so that they would get elected,
they never felt insulted
when konkani our language the one that we speak was
given up for devanagri
konkani, which i find very difficult to understand
(not even the top man of
church supported it inspite of having all gospels
read in church are in roman
script). if one has not heard it than the best place
to hear is our own
doordarshan. than we never felt insulted when most
of the jobs meant for goans
are given for outsiders who are willing to pay top
bucks for the jobs. Hence
maybe most goans run to gulf countries leaving their
loved ones behind who once
they come back on their vacation are more strangers
in their own home land than
these outsiders. we never feel insulted when we
speak in english even to the
people who are fluent in konkani, or vice versa.
pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo.
Pity our thinking.
jerry

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[vivek araujo]

Oops, didn't quiet realise the petty minded goans can
creat such a great impact on the others.Mr. Tim if you
regard your self to be above the rest, from view point
of intelligence and any other aspect, shall be much
obliged if you could reply with your ideas, on the
subject matter raised by Mr. Jerry fernandes. Then
atleast I can know and feel and say proudly HO AMCHO
KHORO GOENKAR.

Vivek


--- Tim de Mello <timdemello2 at hotmail.com> wrote: >
from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

Post by Tim de Mello
". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one
photo. Pity our thinking."
Excellent post.
Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes
<helga at gwi.net>.
Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually,
pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this
forum.
Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Nasci Caldeira]

Hey Marlon, and other readers,

I Nasci have never attacked migrants and their cheap culture; never. I have
always appreciated your 'sense of humour' too. A thousand flowers should
bloom; else it would be a boring world indeed!

What I am resenting in some of my submissions is: the sheer audacity of some
people and groups and political parties included in "imposing their view and
philosophy of life" on others. These types do not show any tolerence and
this is most prevalent in India. There has to be respect and tolerence for
all cultures and ways of life; as long as these do not infringe on the
fundamental and normal rights of others.

Who the hell are these people to impose 'cow slaughter ban'' when the whole
world revels in eating 'Beef'. Beef has been the best meat and tastiest by
far for most people. If some groups and individuals do not want that; they
are free to do as they like.

But since India is and has been for a long time now, a multi cultural and
secular Country; it is incumbent on everyone specially politicians and the
like to respect and tolerate all; so much so there should be special
servings of pork, beef, mutton and or chicken, snake etc for all to revel in
according to their likes, at New Delhi banqets for Indians and foreign
guests alike. China does it so also Malaysia, Japan etc. And these are all
Asian Countries. No wonder China is one big leap ahead in 'gourmet food.
sports and even technology. What a shame. Hindutva wallahs: Stop imposing
these "idiosyncracies' on others. The sooner the better.

Hoping all Indians learn to think 'Modern' and not drown in the past 'Abyss'
they are just coming out of. Then the country will make real progress in all
faculties by leaps and bounds.
I am proud of being a Goan Indian in genes type and culture.
Nasci Caldeira

From: Marlon Menezes <marlon at goacom.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:51:52 -0800 (PST)
It is interesting that Nasci, Ivor et al who live as
immigrants and migrants outside India, choose to
engage in questionable attacks against migrants and
their "cheap culture".
Vivek in his comments below even seems to rationlize
the methods used by exremists like the sh*t sena when
he says "each community has a different way of
preserving things, what is food for one maybe poison
for other". I'm sorry Vivek, but comments like these
are an insult to Goans. We do not believe in ethnic
cleansing.
It looks like some people, in the blind hatred of
non-goans who live in Goa, have chosen to jump the gun
about an article that happened to show Rajasthanies
selling their wares in the Anjuna flea market. Nasci
incorrectly states that the picture was an advert for
Goa, when in fact it was simply one of many pictures
embedded in an article on Anjuna beach and other
places in Goa. As others have asked, please show us
any thing in the article that suggested that the
Rajasthanies were in fact Goans. If you can't then,
you really need to go back and evaluate your attitudes
towards people's of other cultures and religions.
Marlon

The alleged picture of the Rajastani dress woman in
the Ad for Goa is off
the top; but I would not say it is an insult to
Goans. The woman or any
other persons depicted should have had some Goan
Costumes and or
contemporary styles of dress; this should have been
in the main, with the
Rajastani shown as one of other Indians also
visiting in Goa.
What other groups do, say extremists as mentioned by
Mr. Marlon to the extent of preserving thier pure
culture is upto them, each community has a different
way of preserving things, what is food for one may
be
poison for other. The other extremists are unique in
their own way be it good or bad and we are unique in
our way. There is nothing wrong to be associated
with
groups as long as your path is right.
Nothing cheapens goan culture, as it has always been
supreme and will always remain , when goan culture
cheapens is when Mr. Marlon thinks it in a cheap
way,
here we are talking in terms of Insult to Goans

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[Tim de Mello]

Just jumping in . . .

re: "that a pic was published of a rajasthani/kashmiri with the background
picture of one of the GOAN beach, . . . "

seems to have outraged some on this forum.

Would the same sense of outrage be expressed if there was a white woman
shown on the beach?

Just curious.


Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Nasci Caldeira]

Hi Tim,

You are way off the mark! Rajastanis and Kasmiris are different from Goan
dress culture, in the first place.As for the foreign women and or men of
European origin; they visit Rajastan, Goa and Kasmir too, except for now it
is a 'terrorist area'. So your hypothetical question makes no sense. You are
just trying to find fault and argue without thinking! I think this line of
talk should stop; and instead all our energies be directed to " Lonely
Planet" tourist guide. which is showing so much 'Ignorance; Thaks Gabe for
the enlightenment, in this affair.

Nasci Caldeira.

Post by Romel De Melo
From: "Tim de Mello" <timdemello2 at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:07:02 -0500
Just jumping in . . .
re: "that a pic was published of a rajasthani/kashmiri with the background
picture of one of the GOAN beach, . . . "
seems to have outraged some on this forum.
Would the same sense of outrage be expressed if there was a white woman
shown on the beach?
Just curious.
Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA
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[Ivor D'Cunha]

To All Goan ? Netters

Much has been talked about the Article I wrote, first of all I would like to
thank to those who supported me and Secondly I would like to repeat it again
for those who were not clear about it.

This is a feature about Goa (titled Discover Goa) which has appeared in Abu
Dhabi Airport Magazine and distributed all over Abu Dhabi along with the
local daily and also kept at the Airport for free distribution, along with
the article there is a picture of Anjuna beach and a Rajastani lady, nothing
is mentioned about the pictures. I called up the Travel agency who had put
up that article and they directed me towards Indian Tourism in Dubai. When I
checked with the Indian Tourism office in Dubai about the picture they told
me one was about a famous Goan beach and the other of a Goan lady, when I
asked more about it they said it was received from India and have no idea.
Am not against any one or any state but my point is when we have our own
people why we have picture of other people as Goan lady, next time they will
put up picture of slums as traditional Goan houses, for those who would like
to have a look at this picture can check on this site

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/lpi_slides/htmshell/indian_subcontinent/goa/sl-3.htm

There was another incident in few months? back at he Travel Mart in Dubai,
Goa had its own pavilion and when some Goans visited it they were surprised
to see some girls dancing to the tune of Vengaboys music and dressed in mini
skirt and short blouses, when questioned why the traditional dekhnis and
Mandoos were not played, Mr. Martin Joseph (Managing Director of Freedom
holidays Goa) said that ? if you play the Goan folk music no one will visit
Goa, at least with this type of Music you can attract business.?

Well my fellow Goan ? Netters for some this may be a small thing because
some of them are settled at the other end of the World and any thing about
Goa doesn?t matter much other than critics, but for Goans who are really
concerned about Goa this is a big Issue, I had put up this matter on Goa-net
to create awareness among Goans and get support.

Whatever the Critics may be I have already taken up this matter and written
to some to the people concerned and will try an get an explanation and will
also take up the issue personally when I go down to Goa in Jan 2004

Anything can happen if non-Goans lead the Goan Tourism delegation and
non-Goan happens to be the Tourism Director of Goa.

VIVA GOEANKAR

_________________________________________________________________
Discover India. Celebrate her diversity.
http://server1.msn.co.in/features/tourism/ Come, fall in love!

[Gabe Menezes]

Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?




http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.

[Gabe Menezes]

Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?




http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.

[George Pinto]

In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against Indians is ok. I guess
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.

George

Post by Gabe Menezes
Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?
http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/
Cheers,
Gabe Menezes.

__________________________________
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[Bernado Colaco]

Dear George,

It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that feeds
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?

Colaco

--- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote: > In
the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of

Post by George Pinto
churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians
(many Goans are Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

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[George Pinto]

It is difficult to stab the hand that feeds me since I feed myself.
I am not scared of Goans or Indians or Westerners but ignorance that fuels your prejudices.

George

Post by Bernado Colaco
Dear George,
It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that feeds
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?
Colaco

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[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Let me give my two cents to this argument...

Suppose a magazine needs photographs of a London image. Say they want to
photograph Piccadilly Circus or Leicester Square and some Eastern
Europeans are in the background and someone puts a label saying London
native people.

Does anyone feel this makes sense? They are indeed Europeans, they are
of the same white skin colour, but they are not London natives. And the
differences are so obvious, starting with their way of dressing so
characteristic of Eastern Europe.

But this situation would never happen in reality and you know why?
Because someone or the other would have noticed the obvious mistake and
corrected the label. There is no problem or prejudice if they are in the
background of the photograph. The only problem is that the label is
wrong!
And if it had gone to press, the magazine would have been probably black
listed in the UK and demanded to rectify the mistake in the next issue.


This is because there is in the west attention to detail.

I cannot say the same about India. In India there is hardly any detail
whatsoever.
People just say, write and do what they want and hardly anybody cares
about the consequences. In Goa it is the sossegado concept kicking in.
In India it is really a "couldn't care less" attitude.

Even earlier this week, the Times of India, 29 Nov. reported that Mando
festival turned Goa into a mini Singapore.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/328892.cms
http://in.news.yahoo.com/031128/139/29y45.html

The article contains mistaken testimonies. The facts are incorrect and
it is sad that such things are being written in the media without any
factual and historical validation! I guess it is not the first time and
it won't be the last because nobody really cares and it is being written
by and for a real bunch of ignorants!

The dresses have a name are usually known as bazu-toddop and are not
Singaporean but of Malay origin. The Portuguese didn't use to go to
Singapore. That is wrong. Singapore was nothing else but a very small
fishermen village and really only became one of the most important ports
in the world in the last two centuries with the British. The Portuguese
used to go to Malacca (which was another Portuguese colony from 1511 to
1641, taken over by the Dutch and is today a state of Malaysia). The
Bazu-tuddop are known to be of Malay origin, not Singaporean.

The origins of the Mando are debatable and there are lots of theories
but I don't think the Portuguese can take full credit for the music like
the article says. At the most, that is one of the theories...

Best regards
Paulo Colaco Dias.


-----Original Message-----
From: goanet-admin at goanet.org [mailto:goanet-admin at goanet.org] On Behalf
Of George Pinto
Sent: 05 December 2003 01:38
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS

In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western
architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are
Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link
below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against
Indians is ok. I guess
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.

George

Post by Gabe Menezes
Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was

perhaps the

Post by Gabe Menezes
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with

those who

Post by Gabe Menezes
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out

this

Post by Gabe Menezes
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo

?

Post by Gabe Menezes
whooo?
http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/
Cheers,
Gabe Menezes.

__________________________________
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Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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[Bernado Colaco]

People living in ivory towers should not tell us how
to go on with our lives in Goa!

Colaco

Post by Eddie Fernandes
I like to believe that we live in a multicultural
world and appreciate the
value of diversity. Some of the views expressed in
this forum have been
chilling.
Eddie Fernandes

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[Bernado Colaco]

Dear George,

You and many on this list (so called atheists) make a
living in a country founded on christian principles.
You live in a structure that has given you security
and a future. Imagine youself living in the Chambal
along side the dakits, wouldn't you life be that of
survival and on a few occasions dacoting into Goa?

Colaco


--- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote: > It
is difficult to stab the hand that feeds me since

Post by George Pinto
I feed myself.
I am not scared of Goans or Indians or Westerners
but ignorance that fuels your prejudices.
George

Post by Bernado Colaco
Dear George,
It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that

feeds

Post by Bernado Colaco
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?
Colaco

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[Bosco - Goanet Volunteer]

On 7 Dec 2003 18:57:38 -0000, "Jerry Fernandes" <jerryfer at rediffmail.com> wrote:

hello goanetters,

finally comes a time when goans as being written by various writers feel
offended, insulted all because of one photo. but goans never felt insulted when
ministers gave ration cards (a type of proof that they have full goan right to
vote,) to outsiders so that they would get elected, they never felt insulted
when konkani our language the one that we speak was given up for devanagri
konkani, which i find very difficult to understand (not even the top man of
church supported it inspite of having all gospels read in church are in roman
script). if one has not heard it than the best place to hear is our own
doordarshan. than we never felt insulted when most of the jobs meant for goans
are given for outsiders who are willing to pay top bucks for the jobs. Hence
maybe most goans run to gulf countries leaving their loved ones behind who once
they come back on their vacation are more strangers in their own home land than
these outsiders. we never feel insulted when we speak in english even to the
people who are fluent in konkani, or vice versa.

pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking.

jerry

[Tim de Mello]

from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking."

Excellent post.

Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes <helga at gwi.net>.

Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually, pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this forum.

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Romel De Melo]

Yes, we have to rise above the squallor, keep our sanity and engage
ourselves with more meanignful tasks, like keeping our Concani languagea
alive, carry on with the 'mandos', sing praises about Goa and Goans who have
made it good and excelled. This is all much ado about nothing.

Romel


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Tim de Mello" <timdemello2 at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 20:05:34 -0500

from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking."

Excellent post.

Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes <helga at gwi.net>.

Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually, pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this forum.

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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Romel

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[vivek araujo]

A VERY HAPPY FEAST TO ALL THE READERS AND WRITERS ON
THIS GREAT DAY OF OUR LADY OF IMMACULATE
CONCEPTION.BOAS FESTAS

Very well said, a few months ago there was an article
can't recall the heading, about requesting all the
goans overseas to form a formidable party in goa and
do away all the problems you had mentioned although
not all,but nobody replied it was only GOA SURAJ who
was in praise for that article, the article also
called upon allthe goan overseas to help the
unemployed youth of goa jobs, be it overseas or in
goa. Just like the Mizoram National Front who won a
clear majority in the elections and defeated the other
parties can't we goans learn that we do not require
other outside parties to dictate terms on us be it
renaming of roads,or such strange issues, can't we
display our talents by becoming a unified force and
organise such a strong political party where by all
the problems mentioned by Mr. Jerry Fernandes can be
sorted out.Time for change or should we say KEDNAM TO
DIS ETOLO . Lastly Mr. Jerry , didn't you feel great
when goans come together and get united positively on
a photo issue,(keeping all things aside as mentioned
by you just for a second?)

Vivek

On 7 Dec 2003 18:57:38 -0000, "Jerry Fernandes"
hello goanetters,
finally comes a time when goans as being written by
various writers feel
offended, insulted all because of one photo. but
goans never felt insulted when
ministers gave ration cards (a type of proof that
they have full goan right to
vote,) to outsiders so that they would get elected,
they never felt insulted
when konkani our language the one that we speak was
given up for devanagri
konkani, which i find very difficult to understand
(not even the top man of
church supported it inspite of having all gospels
read in church are in roman
script). if one has not heard it than the best place
to hear is our own
doordarshan. than we never felt insulted when most
of the jobs meant for goans
are given for outsiders who are willing to pay top
bucks for the jobs. Hence
maybe most goans run to gulf countries leaving their
loved ones behind who once
they come back on their vacation are more strangers
in their own home land than
these outsiders. we never feel insulted when we
speak in english even to the
people who are fluent in konkani, or vice versa.
pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo.
Pity our thinking.
jerry

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[vivek araujo]

Oops, didn't quiet realise the petty minded goans can
creat such a great impact on the others.Mr. Tim if you
regard your self to be above the rest, from view point
of intelligence and any other aspect, shall be much
obliged if you could reply with your ideas, on the
subject matter raised by Mr. Jerry fernandes. Then
atleast I can know and feel and say proudly HO AMCHO
KHORO GOENKAR.

Vivek


--- Tim de Mello <timdemello2 at hotmail.com> wrote: >
from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

Post by Tim de Mello
". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one
photo. Pity our thinking."
Excellent post.
Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes
<helga at gwi.net>.
Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually,
pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this
forum.
Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Nasci Caldeira]

Hey Marlon, and other readers,

I Nasci have never attacked migrants and their cheap culture; never. I have
always appreciated your 'sense of humour' too. A thousand flowers should
bloom; else it would be a boring world indeed!

What I am resenting in some of my submissions is: the sheer audacity of some
people and groups and political parties included in "imposing their view and
philosophy of life" on others. These types do not show any tolerence and
this is most prevalent in India. There has to be respect and tolerence for
all cultures and ways of life; as long as these do not infringe on the
fundamental and normal rights of others.

Who the hell are these people to impose 'cow slaughter ban'' when the whole
world revels in eating 'Beef'. Beef has been the best meat and tastiest by
far for most people. If some groups and individuals do not want that; they
are free to do as they like.

But since India is and has been for a long time now, a multi cultural and
secular Country; it is incumbent on everyone specially politicians and the
like to respect and tolerate all; so much so there should be special
servings of pork, beef, mutton and or chicken, snake etc for all to revel in
according to their likes, at New Delhi banqets for Indians and foreign
guests alike. China does it so also Malaysia, Japan etc. And these are all
Asian Countries. No wonder China is one big leap ahead in 'gourmet food.
sports and even technology. What a shame. Hindutva wallahs: Stop imposing
these "idiosyncracies' on others. The sooner the better.

Hoping all Indians learn to think 'Modern' and not drown in the past 'Abyss'
they are just coming out of. Then the country will make real progress in all
faculties by leaps and bounds.
I am proud of being a Goan Indian in genes type and culture.
Nasci Caldeira

From: Marlon Menezes <marlon at goacom.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:51:52 -0800 (PST)
It is interesting that Nasci, Ivor et al who live as
immigrants and migrants outside India, choose to
engage in questionable attacks against migrants and
their "cheap culture".
Vivek in his comments below even seems to rationlize
the methods used by exremists like the sh*t sena when
he says "each community has a different way of
preserving things, what is food for one maybe poison
for other". I'm sorry Vivek, but comments like these
are an insult to Goans. We do not believe in ethnic
cleansing.
It looks like some people, in the blind hatred of
non-goans who live in Goa, have chosen to jump the gun
about an article that happened to show Rajasthanies
selling their wares in the Anjuna flea market. Nasci
incorrectly states that the picture was an advert for
Goa, when in fact it was simply one of many pictures
embedded in an article on Anjuna beach and other
places in Goa. As others have asked, please show us
any thing in the article that suggested that the
Rajasthanies were in fact Goans. If you can't then,
you really need to go back and evaluate your attitudes
towards people's of other cultures and religions.
Marlon

The alleged picture of the Rajastani dress woman in
the Ad for Goa is off
the top; but I would not say it is an insult to
Goans. The woman or any
other persons depicted should have had some Goan
Costumes and or
contemporary styles of dress; this should have been
in the main, with the
Rajastani shown as one of other Indians also
visiting in Goa.
What other groups do, say extremists as mentioned by
Mr. Marlon to the extent of preserving thier pure
culture is upto them, each community has a different
way of preserving things, what is food for one may
be
poison for other. The other extremists are unique in
their own way be it good or bad and we are unique in
our way. There is nothing wrong to be associated
with
groups as long as your path is right.
Nothing cheapens goan culture, as it has always been
supreme and will always remain , when goan culture
cheapens is when Mr. Marlon thinks it in a cheap
way,
here we are talking in terms of Insult to Goans

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[Tim de Mello]

Just jumping in . . .

re: "that a pic was published of a rajasthani/kashmiri with the background
picture of one of the GOAN beach, . . . "

seems to have outraged some on this forum.

Would the same sense of outrage be expressed if there was a white woman
shown on the beach?

Just curious.


Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Nasci Caldeira]

Hi Tim,

You are way off the mark! Rajastanis and Kasmiris are different from Goan
dress culture, in the first place.As for the foreign women and or men of
European origin; they visit Rajastan, Goa and Kasmir too, except for now it
is a 'terrorist area'. So your hypothetical question makes no sense. You are
just trying to find fault and argue without thinking! I think this line of
talk should stop; and instead all our energies be directed to " Lonely
Planet" tourist guide. which is showing so much 'Ignorance; Thaks Gabe for
the enlightenment, in this affair.

Nasci Caldeira.

Post by Romel De Melo
From: "Tim de Mello" <timdemello2 at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:07:02 -0500
Just jumping in . . .
re: "that a pic was published of a rajasthani/kashmiri with the background
picture of one of the GOAN beach, . . . "
seems to have outraged some on this forum.
Would the same sense of outrage be expressed if there was a white woman
shown on the beach?
Just curious.
Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA
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[Ivor D'Cunha]

To All Goan ? Netters

Much has been talked about the Article I wrote, first of all I would like to
thank to those who supported me and Secondly I would like to repeat it again
for those who were not clear about it.

This is a feature about Goa (titled Discover Goa) which has appeared in Abu
Dhabi Airport Magazine and distributed all over Abu Dhabi along with the
local daily and also kept at the Airport for free distribution, along with
the article there is a picture of Anjuna beach and a Rajastani lady, nothing
is mentioned about the pictures. I called up the Travel agency who had put
up that article and they directed me towards Indian Tourism in Dubai. When I
checked with the Indian Tourism office in Dubai about the picture they told
me one was about a famous Goan beach and the other of a Goan lady, when I
asked more about it they said it was received from India and have no idea.
Am not against any one or any state but my point is when we have our own
people why we have picture of other people as Goan lady, next time they will
put up picture of slums as traditional Goan houses, for those who would like
to have a look at this picture can check on this site

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/lpi_slides/htmshell/indian_subcontinent/goa/sl-3.htm

There was another incident in few months? back at he Travel Mart in Dubai,
Goa had its own pavilion and when some Goans visited it they were surprised
to see some girls dancing to the tune of Vengaboys music and dressed in mini
skirt and short blouses, when questioned why the traditional dekhnis and
Mandoos were not played, Mr. Martin Joseph (Managing Director of Freedom
holidays Goa) said that ? if you play the Goan folk music no one will visit
Goa, at least with this type of Music you can attract business.?

Well my fellow Goan ? Netters for some this may be a small thing because
some of them are settled at the other end of the World and any thing about
Goa doesn?t matter much other than critics, but for Goans who are really
concerned about Goa this is a big Issue, I had put up this matter on Goa-net
to create awareness among Goans and get support.

Whatever the Critics may be I have already taken up this matter and written
to some to the people concerned and will try an get an explanation and will
also take up the issue personally when I go down to Goa in Jan 2004

Anything can happen if non-Goans lead the Goan Tourism delegation and
non-Goan happens to be the Tourism Director of Goa.

VIVA GOEANKAR

_________________________________________________________________
Discover India. Celebrate her diversity.
http://server1.msn.co.in/features/tourism/ Come, fall in love!

[Gabe Menezes]

Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?




http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.

[Gabe Menezes]

Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?




http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.

[George Pinto]

In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against Indians is ok. I guess
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.

George

Post by Gabe Menezes
Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?
http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/
Cheers,
Gabe Menezes.

__________________________________
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[Bernado Colaco]

Dear George,

It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that feeds
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?

Colaco

--- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote: > In
the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of

Post by George Pinto
churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians
(many Goans are Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

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[George Pinto]

It is difficult to stab the hand that feeds me since I feed myself.
I am not scared of Goans or Indians or Westerners but ignorance that fuels your prejudices.

George

Post by Bernado Colaco
Dear George,
It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that feeds
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?
Colaco

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[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Let me give my two cents to this argument...

Suppose a magazine needs photographs of a London image. Say they want to
photograph Piccadilly Circus or Leicester Square and some Eastern
Europeans are in the background and someone puts a label saying London
native people.

Does anyone feel this makes sense? They are indeed Europeans, they are
of the same white skin colour, but they are not London natives. And the
differences are so obvious, starting with their way of dressing so
characteristic of Eastern Europe.

But this situation would never happen in reality and you know why?
Because someone or the other would have noticed the obvious mistake and
corrected the label. There is no problem or prejudice if they are in the
background of the photograph. The only problem is that the label is
wrong!
And if it had gone to press, the magazine would have been probably black
listed in the UK and demanded to rectify the mistake in the next issue.


This is because there is in the west attention to detail.

I cannot say the same about India. In India there is hardly any detail
whatsoever.
People just say, write and do what they want and hardly anybody cares
about the consequences. In Goa it is the sossegado concept kicking in.
In India it is really a "couldn't care less" attitude.

Even earlier this week, the Times of India, 29 Nov. reported that Mando
festival turned Goa into a mini Singapore.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/328892.cms
http://in.news.yahoo.com/031128/139/29y45.html

The article contains mistaken testimonies. The facts are incorrect and
it is sad that such things are being written in the media without any
factual and historical validation! I guess it is not the first time and
it won't be the last because nobody really cares and it is being written
by and for a real bunch of ignorants!

The dresses have a name are usually known as bazu-toddop and are not
Singaporean but of Malay origin. The Portuguese didn't use to go to
Singapore. That is wrong. Singapore was nothing else but a very small
fishermen village and really only became one of the most important ports
in the world in the last two centuries with the British. The Portuguese
used to go to Malacca (which was another Portuguese colony from 1511 to
1641, taken over by the Dutch and is today a state of Malaysia). The
Bazu-tuddop are known to be of Malay origin, not Singaporean.

The origins of the Mando are debatable and there are lots of theories
but I don't think the Portuguese can take full credit for the music like
the article says. At the most, that is one of the theories...

Best regards
Paulo Colaco Dias.


-----Original Message-----
From: goanet-admin at goanet.org [mailto:goanet-admin at goanet.org] On Behalf
Of George Pinto
Sent: 05 December 2003 01:38
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS

In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western
architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are
Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link
below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against
Indians is ok. I guess
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.

George

Post by Gabe Menezes
Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was

perhaps the

Post by Gabe Menezes
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with

those who

Post by Gabe Menezes
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out

this

Post by Gabe Menezes
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo

?

Post by Gabe Menezes
whooo?
http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/
Cheers,
Gabe Menezes.

__________________________________
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Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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[Bernado Colaco]

People living in ivory towers should not tell us how
to go on with our lives in Goa!

Colaco

Post by Eddie Fernandes
I like to believe that we live in a multicultural
world and appreciate the
value of diversity. Some of the views expressed in
this forum have been
chilling.
Eddie Fernandes

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[Bernado Colaco]

Dear George,

You and many on this list (so called atheists) make a
living in a country founded on christian principles.
You live in a structure that has given you security
and a future. Imagine youself living in the Chambal
along side the dakits, wouldn't you life be that of
survival and on a few occasions dacoting into Goa?

Colaco


--- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote: > It
is difficult to stab the hand that feeds me since

Post by George Pinto
I feed myself.
I am not scared of Goans or Indians or Westerners
but ignorance that fuels your prejudices.
George

Post by Bernado Colaco
Dear George,
It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that

feeds

Post by Bernado Colaco
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?
Colaco

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[Bosco - Goanet Volunteer]

On 7 Dec 2003 18:57:38 -0000, "Jerry Fernandes" <jerryfer at rediffmail.com> wrote:

hello goanetters,

finally comes a time when goans as being written by various writers feel
offended, insulted all because of one photo. but goans never felt insulted when
ministers gave ration cards (a type of proof that they have full goan right to
vote,) to outsiders so that they would get elected, they never felt insulted
when konkani our language the one that we speak was given up for devanagri
konkani, which i find very difficult to understand (not even the top man of
church supported it inspite of having all gospels read in church are in roman
script). if one has not heard it than the best place to hear is our own
doordarshan. than we never felt insulted when most of the jobs meant for goans
are given for outsiders who are willing to pay top bucks for the jobs. Hence
maybe most goans run to gulf countries leaving their loved ones behind who once
they come back on their vacation are more strangers in their own home land than
these outsiders. we never feel insulted when we speak in english even to the
people who are fluent in konkani, or vice versa.

pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking.

jerry

[Tim de Mello]

from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking."

Excellent post.

Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes <helga at gwi.net>.

Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually, pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this forum.

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Romel De Melo]

Yes, we have to rise above the squallor, keep our sanity and engage
ourselves with more meanignful tasks, like keeping our Concani languagea
alive, carry on with the 'mandos', sing praises about Goa and Goans who have
made it good and excelled. This is all much ado about nothing.

Romel


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Tim de Mello" <timdemello2 at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 20:05:34 -0500

from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking."

Excellent post.

Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes <helga at gwi.net>.

Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually, pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this forum.

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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Romel

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[vivek araujo]

A VERY HAPPY FEAST TO ALL THE READERS AND WRITERS ON
THIS GREAT DAY OF OUR LADY OF IMMACULATE
CONCEPTION.BOAS FESTAS

Very well said, a few months ago there was an article
can't recall the heading, about requesting all the
goans overseas to form a formidable party in goa and
do away all the problems you had mentioned although
not all,but nobody replied it was only GOA SURAJ who
was in praise for that article, the article also
called upon allthe goan overseas to help the
unemployed youth of goa jobs, be it overseas or in
goa. Just like the Mizoram National Front who won a
clear majority in the elections and defeated the other
parties can't we goans learn that we do not require
other outside parties to dictate terms on us be it
renaming of roads,or such strange issues, can't we
display our talents by becoming a unified force and
organise such a strong political party where by all
the problems mentioned by Mr. Jerry Fernandes can be
sorted out.Time for change or should we say KEDNAM TO
DIS ETOLO . Lastly Mr. Jerry , didn't you feel great
when goans come together and get united positively on
a photo issue,(keeping all things aside as mentioned
by you just for a second?)

Vivek

On 7 Dec 2003 18:57:38 -0000, "Jerry Fernandes"
hello goanetters,
finally comes a time when goans as being written by
various writers feel
offended, insulted all because of one photo. but
goans never felt insulted when
ministers gave ration cards (a type of proof that
they have full goan right to
vote,) to outsiders so that they would get elected,
they never felt insulted
when konkani our language the one that we speak was
given up for devanagri
konkani, which i find very difficult to understand
(not even the top man of
church supported it inspite of having all gospels
read in church are in roman
script). if one has not heard it than the best place
to hear is our own
doordarshan. than we never felt insulted when most
of the jobs meant for goans
are given for outsiders who are willing to pay top
bucks for the jobs. Hence
maybe most goans run to gulf countries leaving their
loved ones behind who once
they come back on their vacation are more strangers
in their own home land than
these outsiders. we never feel insulted when we
speak in english even to the
people who are fluent in konkani, or vice versa.
pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo.
Pity our thinking.
jerry

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[vivek araujo]

Oops, didn't quiet realise the petty minded goans can
creat such a great impact on the others.Mr. Tim if you
regard your self to be above the rest, from view point
of intelligence and any other aspect, shall be much
obliged if you could reply with your ideas, on the
subject matter raised by Mr. Jerry fernandes. Then
atleast I can know and feel and say proudly HO AMCHO
KHORO GOENKAR.

Vivek


--- Tim de Mello <timdemello2 at hotmail.com> wrote: >
from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

Post by Tim de Mello
". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one
photo. Pity our thinking."
Excellent post.
Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes
<helga at gwi.net>.
Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually,
pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this
forum.
Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Nasci Caldeira]

Hey Marlon, and other readers,

I Nasci have never attacked migrants and their cheap culture; never. I have
always appreciated your 'sense of humour' too. A thousand flowers should
bloom; else it would be a boring world indeed!

What I am resenting in some of my submissions is: the sheer audacity of some
people and groups and political parties included in "imposing their view and
philosophy of life" on others. These types do not show any tolerence and
this is most prevalent in India. There has to be respect and tolerence for
all cultures and ways of life; as long as these do not infringe on the
fundamental and normal rights of others.

Who the hell are these people to impose 'cow slaughter ban'' when the whole
world revels in eating 'Beef'. Beef has been the best meat and tastiest by
far for most people. If some groups and individuals do not want that; they
are free to do as they like.

But since India is and has been for a long time now, a multi cultural and
secular Country; it is incumbent on everyone specially politicians and the
like to respect and tolerate all; so much so there should be special
servings of pork, beef, mutton and or chicken, snake etc for all to revel in
according to their likes, at New Delhi banqets for Indians and foreign
guests alike. China does it so also Malaysia, Japan etc. And these are all
Asian Countries. No wonder China is one big leap ahead in 'gourmet food.
sports and even technology. What a shame. Hindutva wallahs: Stop imposing
these "idiosyncracies' on others. The sooner the better.

Hoping all Indians learn to think 'Modern' and not drown in the past 'Abyss'
they are just coming out of. Then the country will make real progress in all
faculties by leaps and bounds.
I am proud of being a Goan Indian in genes type and culture.
Nasci Caldeira

From: Marlon Menezes <marlon at goacom.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:51:52 -0800 (PST)
It is interesting that Nasci, Ivor et al who live as
immigrants and migrants outside India, choose to
engage in questionable attacks against migrants and
their "cheap culture".
Vivek in his comments below even seems to rationlize
the methods used by exremists like the sh*t sena when
he says "each community has a different way of
preserving things, what is food for one maybe poison
for other". I'm sorry Vivek, but comments like these
are an insult to Goans. We do not believe in ethnic
cleansing.
It looks like some people, in the blind hatred of
non-goans who live in Goa, have chosen to jump the gun
about an article that happened to show Rajasthanies
selling their wares in the Anjuna flea market. Nasci
incorrectly states that the picture was an advert for
Goa, when in fact it was simply one of many pictures
embedded in an article on Anjuna beach and other
places in Goa. As others have asked, please show us
any thing in the article that suggested that the
Rajasthanies were in fact Goans. If you can't then,
you really need to go back and evaluate your attitudes
towards people's of other cultures and religions.
Marlon

The alleged picture of the Rajastani dress woman in
the Ad for Goa is off
the top; but I would not say it is an insult to
Goans. The woman or any
other persons depicted should have had some Goan
Costumes and or
contemporary styles of dress; this should have been
in the main, with the
Rajastani shown as one of other Indians also
visiting in Goa.
What other groups do, say extremists as mentioned by
Mr. Marlon to the extent of preserving thier pure
culture is upto them, each community has a different
way of preserving things, what is food for one may
be
poison for other. The other extremists are unique in
their own way be it good or bad and we are unique in
our way. There is nothing wrong to be associated
with
groups as long as your path is right.
Nothing cheapens goan culture, as it has always been
supreme and will always remain , when goan culture
cheapens is when Mr. Marlon thinks it in a cheap
way,
here we are talking in terms of Insult to Goans

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[Tim de Mello]

Just jumping in . . .

re: "that a pic was published of a rajasthani/kashmiri with the background
picture of one of the GOAN beach, . . . "

seems to have outraged some on this forum.

Would the same sense of outrage be expressed if there was a white woman
shown on the beach?

Just curious.


Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Nasci Caldeira]

Hi Tim,

You are way off the mark! Rajastanis and Kasmiris are different from Goan
dress culture, in the first place.As for the foreign women and or men of
European origin; they visit Rajastan, Goa and Kasmir too, except for now it
is a 'terrorist area'. So your hypothetical question makes no sense. You are
just trying to find fault and argue without thinking! I think this line of
talk should stop; and instead all our energies be directed to " Lonely
Planet" tourist guide. which is showing so much 'Ignorance; Thaks Gabe for
the enlightenment, in this affair.

Nasci Caldeira.

Post by Romel De Melo
From: "Tim de Mello" <timdemello2 at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:07:02 -0500
Just jumping in . . .
re: "that a pic was published of a rajasthani/kashmiri with the background
picture of one of the GOAN beach, . . . "
seems to have outraged some on this forum.
Would the same sense of outrage be expressed if there was a white woman
shown on the beach?
Just curious.
Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA
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[Ivor D'Cunha]

To All Goan ? Netters

Much has been talked about the Article I wrote, first of all I would like to
thank to those who supported me and Secondly I would like to repeat it again
for those who were not clear about it.

This is a feature about Goa (titled Discover Goa) which has appeared in Abu
Dhabi Airport Magazine and distributed all over Abu Dhabi along with the
local daily and also kept at the Airport for free distribution, along with
the article there is a picture of Anjuna beach and a Rajastani lady, nothing
is mentioned about the pictures. I called up the Travel agency who had put
up that article and they directed me towards Indian Tourism in Dubai. When I
checked with the Indian Tourism office in Dubai about the picture they told
me one was about a famous Goan beach and the other of a Goan lady, when I
asked more about it they said it was received from India and have no idea.
Am not against any one or any state but my point is when we have our own
people why we have picture of other people as Goan lady, next time they will
put up picture of slums as traditional Goan houses, for those who would like
to have a look at this picture can check on this site

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/lpi_slides/htmshell/indian_subcontinent/goa/sl-3.htm

There was another incident in few months? back at he Travel Mart in Dubai,
Goa had its own pavilion and when some Goans visited it they were surprised
to see some girls dancing to the tune of Vengaboys music and dressed in mini
skirt and short blouses, when questioned why the traditional dekhnis and
Mandoos were not played, Mr. Martin Joseph (Managing Director of Freedom
holidays Goa) said that ? if you play the Goan folk music no one will visit
Goa, at least with this type of Music you can attract business.?

Well my fellow Goan ? Netters for some this may be a small thing because
some of them are settled at the other end of the World and any thing about
Goa doesn?t matter much other than critics, but for Goans who are really
concerned about Goa this is a big Issue, I had put up this matter on Goa-net
to create awareness among Goans and get support.

Whatever the Critics may be I have already taken up this matter and written
to some to the people concerned and will try an get an explanation and will
also take up the issue personally when I go down to Goa in Jan 2004

Anything can happen if non-Goans lead the Goan Tourism delegation and
non-Goan happens to be the Tourism Director of Goa.

VIVA GOEANKAR

_________________________________________________________________
Discover India. Celebrate her diversity.
http://server1.msn.co.in/features/tourism/ Come, fall in love!

[Gabe Menezes]

Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?




http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.

[Gabe Menezes]

Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?




http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.

[George Pinto]

In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against Indians is ok. I guess
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.

George

Post by Gabe Menezes
Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?
http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/
Cheers,
Gabe Menezes.

__________________________________
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[Bernado Colaco]

Dear George,

It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that feeds
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?

Colaco

--- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote: > In
the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of

Post by George Pinto
churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians
(many Goans are Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

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[George Pinto]

It is difficult to stab the hand that feeds me since I feed myself.
I am not scared of Goans or Indians or Westerners but ignorance that fuels your prejudices.

George

Post by Bernado Colaco
Dear George,
It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that feeds
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?
Colaco

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[Colaco-Dias, Paulo R]

Let me give my two cents to this argument...

Suppose a magazine needs photographs of a London image. Say they want to
photograph Piccadilly Circus or Leicester Square and some Eastern
Europeans are in the background and someone puts a label saying London
native people.

Does anyone feel this makes sense? They are indeed Europeans, they are
of the same white skin colour, but they are not London natives. And the
differences are so obvious, starting with their way of dressing so
characteristic of Eastern Europe.

But this situation would never happen in reality and you know why?
Because someone or the other would have noticed the obvious mistake and
corrected the label. There is no problem or prejudice if they are in the
background of the photograph. The only problem is that the label is
wrong!
And if it had gone to press, the magazine would have been probably black
listed in the UK and demanded to rectify the mistake in the next issue.


This is because there is in the west attention to detail.

I cannot say the same about India. In India there is hardly any detail
whatsoever.
People just say, write and do what they want and hardly anybody cares
about the consequences. In Goa it is the sossegado concept kicking in.
In India it is really a "couldn't care less" attitude.

Even earlier this week, the Times of India, 29 Nov. reported that Mando
festival turned Goa into a mini Singapore.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/328892.cms
http://in.news.yahoo.com/031128/139/29y45.html

The article contains mistaken testimonies. The facts are incorrect and
it is sad that such things are being written in the media without any
factual and historical validation! I guess it is not the first time and
it won't be the last because nobody really cares and it is being written
by and for a real bunch of ignorants!

The dresses have a name are usually known as bazu-toddop and are not
Singaporean but of Malay origin. The Portuguese didn't use to go to
Singapore. That is wrong. Singapore was nothing else but a very small
fishermen village and really only became one of the most important ports
in the world in the last two centuries with the British. The Portuguese
used to go to Malacca (which was another Portuguese colony from 1511 to
1641, taken over by the Dutch and is today a state of Malaysia). The
Bazu-tuddop are known to be of Malay origin, not Singaporean.

The origins of the Mando are debatable and there are lots of theories
but I don't think the Portuguese can take full credit for the music like
the article says. At the most, that is one of the theories...

Best regards
Paulo Colaco Dias.


-----Original Message-----
From: goanet-admin at goanet.org [mailto:goanet-admin at goanet.org] On Behalf
Of George Pinto
Sent: 05 December 2003 01:38
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS

In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western
architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are
Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link
below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against
Indians is ok. I guess
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.

George

Post by Gabe Menezes
Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was

perhaps the

Post by Gabe Menezes
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with

those who

Post by Gabe Menezes
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out

this

Post by Gabe Menezes
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo

?

Post by Gabe Menezes
whooo?
http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/
Cheers,
Gabe Menezes.

__________________________________
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Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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[Bernado Colaco]

People living in ivory towers should not tell us how
to go on with our lives in Goa!

Colaco

Post by Eddie Fernandes
I like to believe that we live in a multicultural
world and appreciate the
value of diversity. Some of the views expressed in
this forum have been
chilling.
Eddie Fernandes

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[Bernado Colaco]

Dear George,

You and many on this list (so called atheists) make a
living in a country founded on christian principles.
You live in a structure that has given you security
and a future. Imagine youself living in the Chambal
along side the dakits, wouldn't you life be that of
survival and on a few occasions dacoting into Goa?

Colaco


--- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote: > It
is difficult to stab the hand that feeds me since

Post by George Pinto
I feed myself.
I am not scared of Goans or Indians or Westerners
but ignorance that fuels your prejudices.
George

Post by Bernado Colaco
Dear George,
It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that

feeds

Post by Bernado Colaco
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?
Colaco

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[Bosco - Goanet Volunteer]

On 7 Dec 2003 18:57:38 -0000, "Jerry Fernandes" <jerryfer at rediffmail.com> wrote:

hello goanetters,

finally comes a time when goans as being written by various writers feel
offended, insulted all because of one photo. but goans never felt insulted when
ministers gave ration cards (a type of proof that they have full goan right to
vote,) to outsiders so that they would get elected, they never felt insulted
when konkani our language the one that we speak was given up for devanagri
konkani, which i find very difficult to understand (not even the top man of
church supported it inspite of having all gospels read in church are in roman
script). if one has not heard it than the best place to hear is our own
doordarshan. than we never felt insulted when most of the jobs meant for goans
are given for outsiders who are willing to pay top bucks for the jobs. Hence
maybe most goans run to gulf countries leaving their loved ones behind who once
they come back on their vacation are more strangers in their own home land than
these outsiders. we never feel insulted when we speak in english even to the
people who are fluent in konkani, or vice versa.

pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking.

jerry

[Tim de Mello]

from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking."

Excellent post.

Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes <helga at gwi.net>.

Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually, pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this forum.

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Romel De Melo]

Yes, we have to rise above the squallor, keep our sanity and engage
ourselves with more meanignful tasks, like keeping our Concani languagea
alive, carry on with the 'mandos', sing praises about Goa and Goans who have
made it good and excelled. This is all much ado about nothing.

Romel


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Tim de Mello" <timdemello2 at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: [Goanet]Re: INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2003 20:05:34 -0500

from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo. Pity our thinking."

Excellent post.

Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes <helga at gwi.net>.

Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually, pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this forum.

Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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Romel

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[vivek araujo]

A VERY HAPPY FEAST TO ALL THE READERS AND WRITERS ON
THIS GREAT DAY OF OUR LADY OF IMMACULATE
CONCEPTION.BOAS FESTAS

Very well said, a few months ago there was an article
can't recall the heading, about requesting all the
goans overseas to form a formidable party in goa and
do away all the problems you had mentioned although
not all,but nobody replied it was only GOA SURAJ who
was in praise for that article, the article also
called upon allthe goan overseas to help the
unemployed youth of goa jobs, be it overseas or in
goa. Just like the Mizoram National Front who won a
clear majority in the elections and defeated the other
parties can't we goans learn that we do not require
other outside parties to dictate terms on us be it
renaming of roads,or such strange issues, can't we
display our talents by becoming a unified force and
organise such a strong political party where by all
the problems mentioned by Mr. Jerry Fernandes can be
sorted out.Time for change or should we say KEDNAM TO
DIS ETOLO . Lastly Mr. Jerry , didn't you feel great
when goans come together and get united positively on
a photo issue,(keeping all things aside as mentioned
by you just for a second?)

Vivek

On 7 Dec 2003 18:57:38 -0000, "Jerry Fernandes"
hello goanetters,
finally comes a time when goans as being written by
various writers feel
offended, insulted all because of one photo. but
goans never felt insulted when
ministers gave ration cards (a type of proof that
they have full goan right to
vote,) to outsiders so that they would get elected,
they never felt insulted
when konkani our language the one that we speak was
given up for devanagri
konkani, which i find very difficult to understand
(not even the top man of
church supported it inspite of having all gospels
read in church are in roman
script). if one has not heard it than the best place
to hear is our own
doordarshan. than we never felt insulted when most
of the jobs meant for goans
are given for outsiders who are willing to pay top
bucks for the jobs. Hence
maybe most goans run to gulf countries leaving their
loved ones behind who once
they come back on their vacation are more strangers
in their own home land than
these outsiders. we never feel insulted when we
speak in english even to the
people who are fluent in konkani, or vice versa.
pity us goans who feel insulted for just one photo.
Pity our thinking.
jerry

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[vivek araujo]

Oops, didn't quiet realise the petty minded goans can
creat such a great impact on the others.Mr. Tim if you
regard your self to be above the rest, from view point
of intelligence and any other aspect, shall be much
obliged if you could reply with your ideas, on the
subject matter raised by Mr. Jerry fernandes. Then
atleast I can know and feel and say proudly HO AMCHO
KHORO GOENKAR.

Vivek


--- Tim de Mello <timdemello2 at hotmail.com> wrote: >
from <jerryfer at rediffmail.com>

Post by Tim de Mello
". . pity us goans who feel insulted for just one
photo. Pity our thinking."
Excellent post.
Also the post from Helga do Rosario Gomes
<helga at gwi.net>.
Thank you both for rising above the silly (actually,
pitiful would be a more
apt description) pettiness exhibited by many on this
forum.
Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Nasci Caldeira]

Hey Marlon, and other readers,

I Nasci have never attacked migrants and their cheap culture; never. I have
always appreciated your 'sense of humour' too. A thousand flowers should
bloom; else it would be a boring world indeed!

What I am resenting in some of my submissions is: the sheer audacity of some
people and groups and political parties included in "imposing their view and
philosophy of life" on others. These types do not show any tolerence and
this is most prevalent in India. There has to be respect and tolerence for
all cultures and ways of life; as long as these do not infringe on the
fundamental and normal rights of others.

Who the hell are these people to impose 'cow slaughter ban'' when the whole
world revels in eating 'Beef'. Beef has been the best meat and tastiest by
far for most people. If some groups and individuals do not want that; they
are free to do as they like.

But since India is and has been for a long time now, a multi cultural and
secular Country; it is incumbent on everyone specially politicians and the
like to respect and tolerate all; so much so there should be special
servings of pork, beef, mutton and or chicken, snake etc for all to revel in
according to their likes, at New Delhi banqets for Indians and foreign
guests alike. China does it so also Malaysia, Japan etc. And these are all
Asian Countries. No wonder China is one big leap ahead in 'gourmet food.
sports and even technology. What a shame. Hindutva wallahs: Stop imposing
these "idiosyncracies' on others. The sooner the better.

Hoping all Indians learn to think 'Modern' and not drown in the past 'Abyss'
they are just coming out of. Then the country will make real progress in all
faculties by leaps and bounds.
I am proud of being a Goan Indian in genes type and culture.
Nasci Caldeira

From: Marlon Menezes <marlon at goacom.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 09:51:52 -0800 (PST)
It is interesting that Nasci, Ivor et al who live as
immigrants and migrants outside India, choose to
engage in questionable attacks against migrants and
their "cheap culture".
Vivek in his comments below even seems to rationlize
the methods used by exremists like the sh*t sena when
he says "each community has a different way of
preserving things, what is food for one maybe poison
for other". I'm sorry Vivek, but comments like these
are an insult to Goans. We do not believe in ethnic
cleansing.
It looks like some people, in the blind hatred of
non-goans who live in Goa, have chosen to jump the gun
about an article that happened to show Rajasthanies
selling their wares in the Anjuna flea market. Nasci
incorrectly states that the picture was an advert for
Goa, when in fact it was simply one of many pictures
embedded in an article on Anjuna beach and other
places in Goa. As others have asked, please show us
any thing in the article that suggested that the
Rajasthanies were in fact Goans. If you can't then,
you really need to go back and evaluate your attitudes
towards people's of other cultures and religions.
Marlon

The alleged picture of the Rajastani dress woman in
the Ad for Goa is off
the top; but I would not say it is an insult to
Goans. The woman or any
other persons depicted should have had some Goan
Costumes and or
contemporary styles of dress; this should have been
in the main, with the
Rajastani shown as one of other Indians also
visiting in Goa.
What other groups do, say extremists as mentioned by
Mr. Marlon to the extent of preserving thier pure
culture is upto them, each community has a different
way of preserving things, what is food for one may
be
poison for other. The other extremists are unique in
their own way be it good or bad and we are unique in
our way. There is nothing wrong to be associated
with
groups as long as your path is right.
Nothing cheapens goan culture, as it has always been
supreme and will always remain , when goan culture
cheapens is when Mr. Marlon thinks it in a cheap
way,
here we are talking in terms of Insult to Goans

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[Tim de Mello]

Just jumping in . . .

re: "that a pic was published of a rajasthani/kashmiri with the background
picture of one of the GOAN beach, . . . "

seems to have outraged some on this forum.

Would the same sense of outrage be expressed if there was a white woman
shown on the beach?

Just curious.


Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA

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[Nasci Caldeira]

Hi Tim,

You are way off the mark! Rajastanis and Kasmiris are different from Goan
dress culture, in the first place.As for the foreign women and or men of
European origin; they visit Rajastan, Goa and Kasmir too, except for now it
is a 'terrorist area'. So your hypothetical question makes no sense. You are
just trying to find fault and argue without thinking! I think this line of
talk should stop; and instead all our energies be directed to " Lonely
Planet" tourist guide. which is showing so much 'Ignorance; Thaks Gabe for
the enlightenment, in this affair.

Nasci Caldeira.

Post by Romel De Melo
From: "Tim de Mello" <timdemello2 at hotmail.com>
Reply-To: goanet at goanet.org
To: goanet at goanet.org
Subject: Re: [Goanet]INSULT TO GOANS
Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2003 13:07:02 -0500
Just jumping in . . .
re: "that a pic was published of a rajasthani/kashmiri with the background
picture of one of the GOAN beach, . . . "
seems to have outraged some on this forum.
Would the same sense of outrage be expressed if there was a white woman
shown on the beach?
Just curious.
Tim de Mello
timdemello2 at hotmail.com
CANADA
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[Ivor D'Cunha]

To All Goan ? Netters

Much has been talked about the Article I wrote, first of all I would like to
thank to those who supported me and Secondly I would like to repeat it again
for those who were not clear about it.

This is a feature about Goa (titled Discover Goa) which has appeared in Abu
Dhabi Airport Magazine and distributed all over Abu Dhabi along with the
local daily and also kept at the Airport for free distribution, along with
the article there is a picture of Anjuna beach and a Rajastani lady, nothing
is mentioned about the pictures. I called up the Travel agency who had put
up that article and they directed me towards Indian Tourism in Dubai. When I
checked with the Indian Tourism office in Dubai about the picture they told
me one was about a famous Goan beach and the other of a Goan lady, when I
asked more about it they said it was received from India and have no idea.
Am not against any one or any state but my point is when we have our own
people why we have picture of other people as Goan lady, next time they will
put up picture of slums as traditional Goan houses, for those who would like
to have a look at this picture can check on this site

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/lpi_slides/htmshell/indian_subcontinent/goa/sl-3.htm

There was another incident in few months? back at he Travel Mart in Dubai,
Goa had its own pavilion and when some Goans visited it they were surprised
to see some girls dancing to the tune of Vengaboys music and dressed in mini
skirt and short blouses, when questioned why the traditional dekhnis and
Mandoos were not played, Mr. Martin Joseph (Managing Director of Freedom
holidays Goa) said that ? if you play the Goan folk music no one will visit
Goa, at least with this type of Music you can attract business.?

Well my fellow Goan ? Netters for some this may be a small thing because
some of them are settled at the other end of the World and any thing about
Goa doesn?t matter much other than critics, but for Goans who are really
concerned about Goa this is a big Issue, I had put up this matter on Goa-net
to create awareness among Goans and get support.

Whatever the Critics may be I have already taken up this matter and written
to some to the people concerned and will try an get an explanation and will
also take up the issue personally when I go down to Goa in Jan 2004

Anything can happen if non-Goans lead the Goan Tourism delegation and
non-Goan happens to be the Tourism Director of Goa.

VIVA GOEANKAR

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[Gabe Menezes]

Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?




http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.

[Gabe Menezes]

Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?




http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/

Cheers,

Gabe Menezes.

[George Pinto]

In the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians (many Goans are Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

Based on some of the discussions regarding this topic and the link below, it seems our
boot-licking of the west (whites) continues but discrimination against Indians is ok. I guess
colonialism never did go away, and Goans are happy to prolong it.

George

Post by Gabe Menezes
Seems to me that the Pic used in the Dubai promotion of Goa was perhaps the
same one that is banded around the Globe. As it is, I agree with those who
oppose it. The tourist promotion authorities in Goa should point out this
anomaly to the perpetrators. Check out the link below as well ! Yahoo ?
whooo?
http://sg.travel.yahoo.com/guide/asia/india/goa/
Cheers,
Gabe Menezes.

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[Bernado Colaco]

Dear George,

It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that feeds
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?

Colaco

--- George Pinto <georgejpinto at yahoo.com> wrote: > In
the link forwarded below, there are 3 pictures of

Post by George Pinto
churches (Western architecture) and 2
Indians. Am I supposed to be insulted by Indians
(many Goans are Indians) or insulted by western
colonial influences in Goa?

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[George Pinto]

It is difficult to stab the hand that feeds me since I feed myself.
I am not scared of Goans or Indians or Westerners but ignorance that fuels your prejudices.

George

Post by Bernado Colaco
Dear George,
It is you who are prolonging the boot licking by
living in the west and stabbing the hand that feeds
you. If you had the courage and guts the Goa flag
would still be flying. Are you scared of your own
indians?
Colaco

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