OT: Very late midlife crisis, SF fanboy style. Lynn might like this.

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.
[Pause while you admire)
1. The deposit is only $100, and is fully refundable.
2. It wont be delivered until 2021 at the earliest.
3. It will probably look a bit different - for a start, it needs mirrors.
4. Actually getting it will require that I (a) maintain my interest, and (b)
come into some money (which is not out of the question).
At $39.9k, its actually a hell of a truck for the price. I'd be curious to see
what Lynn thinks of it.
pt

No it does not fit very well in the present garage as it is two feet
longer than the old 2005 Expedition that broke the timing chain at
209,546 miles. It does fit in the new used house garage when we move in
December. I have been rebuilding the new used house for three months
now, the paint crew finished painting last night.
Loading Image...

Lynn

J. Clarke

2019-11-24 01:31:37 UTC

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:35:09 -0600, Lynn McGuire

That is the worst vehicle mockup that I have seen in a long time. I
think Musk got confused about their news Mars Rover and nobody was gutsy
enough to call him on it.
I just bought a new 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 crewcab for $39,860 + TTL. MSRP
of $54K. Has the Max Towing package with extra cooling and the 3.5L
biturbo V6 with 375 hp. Ten speed automatic and 36 gallon fuel tank to
give 600 mile range unless towing which drops mileage in half. I got 18
mpg on the first 1,000 miles.
https://www.winsim.com/F150-side.jpg
No it does not fit very well in the present garage as it is two feet
longer than the old 2005 Expedition that broke the timing chain at
209,546 miles. It does fit in the new used house garage when we move in
December. I have been rebuilding the new used house for three months
now, the paint crew finished painting last night.
https://www.winsim.com/F150-garage.jpg

I'm not sure if he needs it or if he's crazy. Trucks in the US sell
to at least four different markets:

(1) Businesses, independent contractors, farmers, ranchers, and others
who need to haul stuff around--this includes property owners who do
their own maintenance and construction.
(2) Off-road enthusiasts, hunters, and others who need off-road
capability and more capacity than Jeep TJ.
(3) Urban cowboys--people who aren't in category 1 or 2 but want to
appear to be.
(4) People who reall want a large sedan like the old Lincoln Town Car
or Cadillac Sedan DeVille but don't find them in the modern market.

The Tesla truck should do well in market 4, assuming the ride is
decent. It appears to have the room, the passenger capacity, and the
covered bed. Compare with an Avalanche or an Escalade EXT (the "EXT"
is significant).

Depending on how much range the individual needs and what specifically
the individual does it may make inroads in 2. The bed will carry a
small dirt bike but not a large one. It won't take a standard camper
or cap because of the "wings" on the sides of the bed. The high end
model probably has enough range for New England where it's hard to get
200 miles away from civilization, but extending range means carrying a
generator in addition to gas cans.

Market 1 it may have some niche uses--the 240 if it provides a decent
amount of current could eliminate carrying a genset in some jobs, the
air again if it provides a decent amount of volume could eliminate
carrying a compressor on some jobs--both of those take up space and
are pilferable so replacing them with the truck could be beneficial.

Putting a toolbox on it or a rack or any other common modifications
will be difficult again because of the wings.

The unibody is an issue. Generally attaching a snowplow or a fifth
wheel to a unibody is problematical--if he has recognized this and
designed the structure to accommodate it then it may not be a problem,
but so far there's no evidence of that. Then there's the matter of a
custom box-the separate frame design makes that easy, you just take
the bed off and put on whatever you need--"delete bed" is a standard
option.

Market 3 is a crapshoot.

I suspect that he's going to sell a lot of them but few to people who
actually need trucks.

Note that I'm seeing people claiming that the Rivian is a better fit
for the market--it isn't. It looks more conventional, but it has a
_tiny_ bed--it's competing more with a Jeep Gladiator than an F-150.

Then there's his video showing his truck outpulling an F-150. Nice
show for people who don't know anything about trucks, but what it
really showed was that his truck was a lot heavier--he wasn't
overpowering the F-150, he just had more traction--the F-150 was
spinning its wheels. Load the F-150 to the same weight and put the
same tires on it and see what happens. Oh, then try it on a diesel
F-350 with the high-ratio axle in 4-low (priced around 50K)

I'm in the market for a truck and I like EVs--I was hoping the Tesla
would be it--but it's not.

Lynn McGuire

2019-11-24 01:34:30 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:35:09 -0600, Lynn McGuire

I'm not sure if he needs it or if he's crazy. Trucks in the US sell
(1) Businesses, independent contractors, farmers, ranchers, and others
who need to haul stuff around--this includes property owners who do
their own maintenance and construction.
(2) Off-road enthusiasts, hunters, and others who need off-road
capability and more capacity than Jeep TJ.
(3) Urban cowboys--people who aren't in category 1 or 2 but want to
appear to be.
(4) People who reall want a large sedan like the old Lincoln Town Car
or Cadillac Sedan DeVille but don't find them in the modern market.
The Tesla truck should do well in market 4, assuming the ride is
decent. It appears to have the room, the passenger capacity, and the
covered bed. Compare with an Avalanche or an Escalade EXT (the "EXT"
is significant).
Depending on how much range the individual needs and what specifically
the individual does it may make inroads in 2. The bed will carry a
small dirt bike but not a large one. It won't take a standard camper
or cap because of the "wings" on the sides of the bed. The high end
model probably has enough range for New England where it's hard to get
200 miles away from civilization, but extending range means carrying a
generator in addition to gas cans.
Market 1 it may have some niche uses--the 240 if it provides a decent
amount of current could eliminate carrying a genset in some jobs, the
air again if it provides a decent amount of volume could eliminate
carrying a compressor on some jobs--both of those take up space and
are pilferable so replacing them with the truck could be beneficial.
Putting a toolbox on it or a rack or any other common modifications
will be difficult again because of the wings.
The unibody is an issue. Generally attaching a snowplow or a fifth
wheel to a unibody is problematical--if he has recognized this and
designed the structure to accommodate it then it may not be a problem,
but so far there's no evidence of that. Then there's the matter of a
custom box-the separate frame design makes that easy, you just take
the bed off and put on whatever you need--"delete bed" is a standard
option.
Market 3 is a crapshoot.
I suspect that he's going to sell a lot of them but few to people who
actually need trucks.
Note that I'm seeing people claiming that the Rivian is a better fit
for the market--it isn't. It looks more conventional, but it has a
_tiny_ bed--it's competing more with a Jeep Gladiator than an F-150.
Then there's his video showing his truck outpulling an F-150. Nice
show for people who don't know anything about trucks, but what it
really showed was that his truck was a lot heavier--he wasn't
overpowering the F-150, he just had more traction--the F-150 was
spinning its wheels. Load the F-150 to the same weight and put the
same tires on it and see what happens. Oh, then try it on a diesel
F-350 with the high-ratio axle in 4-low (priced around 50K)
I'm in the market for a truck and I like EVs--I was hoping the Tesla
would be it--but it's not.

When I first saw the Tesla Truck, I thought of the movie "Damnation Alley":
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation_Alley_(film)

Lynn

J. Clarke

2019-11-24 01:56:41 UTC

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 19:34:30 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:35:09 -0600, Lynn McGuire

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation_Alley_(film)

Flashing on a scene for a remake of "Damnation Alley". Tanner is
repairing something on the Landmaster. He's using a Tesla Truck as a
service ramp.

You know--I could stand to see a remake of that movie. I really liked
the story when it appeared in Galaxy, and found the movie
disappointing.

Jerry Brown

2019-11-24 07:31:14 UTC

On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 19:34:30 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Lynn McGuire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation_Alley_(film)

Reminds me more of Robert Preston's car from The Last Starfighter.

--
Jerry Brown

A cat may look at a king
(but probably won't bother)

Lynn McGuire

2019-11-24 19:23:05 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 19:34:30 -0600, Lynn McGuire
<snip>

Post by Lynn McGuire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnation_Alley_(film)

Reminds me more of Robert Preston's car from The Last Starfighter.

Kinda. Not really though.

https://starcarcentral.wordpress.com/2011/01/30/the-last-starfighter-star-car-where-is-it-now-hello-mcfly/

Lynn

Peter Trei

2019-11-24 04:58:30 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Sat, 23 Nov 2019 17:35:09 -0600, Lynn McGuire

We'll see. So far, Tesla is claiming 146k reservations in the first 36 hours
after they opened.

Depends what you want the truck for.

I'm definitely in category 3 or 4. I used to drive a GMC Suburban, and loved
having a ton of space and passenger capacity, but didn't like the 15 mpg,
especially when I had a 75 mile roundtrip commute. We recently got rid of
our other large vehicle, and I'm without much cargo or people capacity in
my cars at the moment.

In the category 3 market, this is much more 'urban spaceman' than 'urban
cowboy'. I enjoy the thought of pulling up to an SF con in this thing.

[...]

Post by J. Clarke
Then there's his video showing his truck outpulling an F-150. Nice
show for people who don't know anything about trucks, but what it
really showed was that his truck was a lot heavier--he wasn't
overpowering the F-150, he just had more traction--the F-150 was
spinning its wheels. Load the F-150 to the same weight and put the
same tires on it and see what happens. Oh, then try it on a diesel
F-350 with the high-ratio axle in 4-low (priced around 50K)

Agreed. We'll have to see in the future what the real comparison is like.

Post by J. Clarke
I'm in the market for a truck and I like EVs--I was hoping the Tesla
would be it--but it's not.

Not for you, perhaps. Maybe for me.

pt

Peter Trei

2019-11-24 04:42:23 UTC

That is the worst vehicle mockup that I have seen in a long time. I
think Musk got confused about their news Mars Rover and nobody was gutsy
enough to call him on it.

It's not a mockup - people have been riding in it, including the automotive
press. Example:

https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-electric-pickup-photos-info

Post by Lynn McGuire
I just bought a new 2019 Ford F-150 4x4 crewcab for $39,860 + TTL. MSRP
of $54K. Has the Max Towing package with extra cooling and the 3.5L
biturbo V6 with 375 hp. Ten speed automatic and 36 gallon fuel tank to
give 600 mile range unless towing which drops mileage in half. I got 18
mpg on the first 1,000 miles.
https://www.winsim.com/F150-side.jpg

Nice!

pt

p***@hotmail.com

2019-11-24 05:24:03 UTC

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.

I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.

The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
lower drag:

https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/

Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

J. Clarke

2019-11-24 05:35:00 UTC

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.

I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.

Lynn McGuire

2019-11-24 05:57:36 UTC

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.

I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.

My F-150 is 6 foot 4 inches tall. The radio antenna is over 7 foot. It
hits everything including my garage frame. I went to see my doctor in
the Houston med center a couple of weeks ago and had to park on the 8th
floor of the garage. I think my radio antenna hit every dadgum beam up
and down. The headroom inside the vehicle is a foot for me and I am 6'1".

Lynn

Peter Trei

2019-11-24 19:49:28 UTC

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.

I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.

You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.

First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.

The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.

But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.

It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.

Whether it's worse, sa good, or better than the F150 depends on what you use
it for.

pt

Lynn McGuire

2019-11-24 20:16:50 UTC

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.

I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.

You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.
Whether it's worse, sa good, or better than the F150 depends on what you use
it for.
pt

All of those specifications are subject to change before the vehicle
goes into production.

My cousin's experience with his Tesla 3 is very good. Only one problem
in 17,000 miles and it was just a trim problem. And his 310 mile
battery dual motor car is amazing. But I do not like the missing gauges
and controls since everything goes through the middle mounted computer
touchscreen.

The vehicle would have to have a sterling reputation like the F-150 does
in order for me to purchase one. I paid $40K for my F-150 4x4 with 600+
mile range, I assume that I would want the dual motor AWD Tesla truck
with the big battery which is going to be $50K. Plus more battery if
available. But there is no gasoline cost so that offsets some of the
initial cost.
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck/design#battery

Lynn

J. Clarke

2019-11-24 23:38:43 UTC

On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.

I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.

You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.

Not seeing Peter's post but . . .

About that 3500 pounds--if the F-150 was the only truck Ford made then
that 3500 pounds would have some relevance. But Ford sells pickups
with payload ratings up to 7850 pounds and maximum towing of 37,000
pounds.

About that "100 cubic feet", I want to see how that is measured. The
box on the Tesla is 6.5 feet long, per Elon Musk. I can't find
anything official from Tesla about the width, but according to Motor
Trend it is 57 inches
<https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-cybertruck-rivian-r1t-compared-data-specs>.

There are three bed sizes for the F-150. All are 50 inches between
the wheelhouses and 65.2 inches maximum, with lengths of 5.5, 6.5, and
8 feet. So the F-150 has a longer, wider bed but somehow has less
cargo volume according to Tesla.

Ford doesn't list a "cargo volume", what they list is a "cargo box
volume". I suspect that Tesla is reporting the volume they way it is
reported for a car, filling to the roof.

Bottom line--my motorcycle will fit in a long-bed F-150 with the
tailgate closed, it won't fit in the Tesla. The same is true for a
sheet of plywood.

However this also points out another issue--pickup truck beds have
somewhat standardized dimensions for a reason--there is an ecosystem
of truck accessories that fit those beds. If Tesla is changing their
dimensions from that standard then none of those accessories fit.

Post by Peter Trei
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.

Which is only useful if you are hardcore offroading. People who need
that capability put on lift kits.

Post by Peter Trei
Whether it's worse, sa good, or better than the F150 depends on what you use
it for.
pt

All of those specifications are subject to change before the vehicle
goes into production.
My cousin's experience with his Tesla 3 is very good. Only one problem
in 17,000 miles and it was just a trim problem. And his 310 mile
battery dual motor car is amazing. But I do not like the missing gauges
and controls since everything goes through the middle mounted computer
touchscreen.
The vehicle would have to have a sterling reputation like the F-150 does
in order for me to purchase one. I paid $40K for my F-150 4x4 with 600+
mile range, I assume that I would want the dual motor AWD Tesla truck
with the big battery which is going to be $50K. Plus more battery if
available. But there is no gasoline cost so that offsets some of the
initial cost.
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck/design#battery
Lynn

Chrysi Cat

2019-11-25 02:18:04 UTC

I'll grant all the rest, buuuut:

On 11/24/2019 4:38 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
<snip>

Post by Peter Trei
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.

Which is only useful if you are hardcore offroading. People who need
that capability put on lift kits.

While it's true that right now, lift kits are the way to go with
hard-core off-roading, a lift kit is permanent. You pretty much then
need a tow vehicle to _get_ your truck to the trail legally; it's almost
better unless you need a closed cab for some reason to run a couple of
quadbikes instead.

Not that I expect anyone actually _will_ use a _Tesla_ that way due to
their price, but adjustable suspensions make a great deal more sense
than ripping the axles off and reattaching them with 7 inches of metal
and ridiculously-powerful gas struts intervening between the rest of the
undercarriage and their new position.

Simply because then you don't need a tow vehicle or a parking space for
it and likely a trailer, but instead you can drive the truck to and past
the trailhead on its own.

--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger.
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!

J. Clarke

2019-11-25 02:50:04 UTC

Post by Jerry Brown
<snip>

Post by Peter Trei
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.

Which is only useful if you are hardcore offroading. People who need
that capability put on lift kits.

That really depends on the state. Most states a lift to 16 inch
clearanc is not an issue as long as it's done using the right
combination of tires, suspension, and body.

And then there's the question of whether the Tesla at full lift is
actually legal.

Post by Jerry Brown
Not that I expect anyone actually _will_ use a _Tesla_ that way due to
their price, but adjustable suspensions make a great deal more sense
than ripping the axles off and reattaching them with 7 inches of metal
and ridiculously-powerful gas struts intervening between the rest of the
undercarriage and their new position.

As for "ripping", actually it's unfastening a few bolts, changing out
a few parts, and refastening those bolts.

Post by Jerry Brown
Simply because then you don't need a tow vehicle or a parking space for
it and likely a trailer, but instead you can drive the truck to and past
the trailhead on its own.

I've never seen a lifted truck being towed, but I've seen a number of
them on the road.

r***@rosettacondot.com

2019-11-25 17:26:01 UTC

Post by Jerry Brown
<snip>

Post by Peter Trei
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.

Which is only useful if you are hardcore offroading. People who need
that capability put on lift kits.

That really depends on the state. Most states a lift to 16 inch
clearanc is not an issue as long as it's done using the right
combination of tires, suspension, and body.
And then there's the question of whether the Tesla at full lift is
actually legal.

This was the first time I realized there were laws governing this (although
I'm entirely unsurprised that California is in the list of states that has
them).
I've passed (and been passed by) trucks in Texas that I could see under.

Robert

--
Robert K. Shull Email: rkshull at rosettacon dot com

Lynn McGuire

2019-11-25 20:57:12 UTC

On 11/24/2019 8:50 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
...

Post by Chrysi Cat
Simply because then you don't need a tow vehicle or a parking space for
it and likely a trailer, but instead you can drive the truck to and past
the trailhead on its own.

I've never seen a lifted truck being towed, but I've seen a number of
them on the road.

I have seen several lifted trucks being towed over the years. They tend
to break universal joints fairly often. Of course, if you break the
back universal joint you can drive on the front wheel drive for a while
after you remove the rear driveshaft (makes a heck of a racket just
flopping around back there).

Lynn

BCFD36

2019-11-26 18:18:48 UTC

Post by Jerry Brown
<snip>

Post by Peter Trei
It has adjustable air suspension, and can rise to 16 inches of ground clearance, about double your truck.

Which is only useful if you are hardcore offroading. People who need
that capability put on lift kits.

That really depends on the state. Most states a lift to 16 inch
clearanc is not an issue as long as it's done using the right
combination of tires, suspension, and body.
And then there's the question of whether the Tesla at full lift is
actually legal.

As for "ripping", actually it's unfastening a few bolts, changing out
a few parts, and refastening those bolts.

Post by Jerry Brown
Simply because then you don't need a tow vehicle or a parking space for
it and likely a trailer, but instead you can drive the truck to and past
the trailhead on its own.

I've never seen a lifted truck being towed, but I've seen a number of
them on the road.

I have seen several of them on the road, on their side. When I was on
the FD, when we would see a ridiculously lifted truck, someone would
invariably say, "We will run a call on that one in about two weeks". And
often we would.

--
Dave Scruggs
Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
Sr. Software Engineer - Stellar Solutions

David DeLaney

2019-12-03 07:09:52 UTC

Post by BCFD36
I have seen several of them on the road, on their side. When I was on
the FD, when we would see a ridiculously lifted truck, someone would
invariably say, "We will run a call on that one in about two weeks". And
often we would.

And while some people do need extra room for whatever offroad _work_ they're
doing, a big chunk of them are just advertisements about their owner's penis
size.

Dave, midwife crisis

--
\/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
my gatekeeper archives are no longer accessible :( / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

Lynn McGuire

2019-12-03 18:42:40 UTC

Post by David DeLaney

And while some people do need extra room for whatever offroad _work_ they're
doing, a big chunk of them are just advertisements about their owner's penis
size.
Dave, midwife crisis

I used my 4x4 F-150 yesterday to smooth out the 1/4 acre that the feral
pigs tore up last week so the mower does not toss a blade belt. Again.

I really need one of those water filled rollers to fix the feral pig
damage. Too expensive though. The five ton model that I can tow with
my 4x4 F-150 is about $10,000. The two ton model is much cheaper and
reputedly does not work very well.

Lynn

Peter Trei

2019-11-25 04:45:30 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.

I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.

You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.

The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all. Extremetech
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302489-tesla-unveils-cybertruck-f-150
gives an uninterrupted 75 inch width (which is very plausible in the photos),
giving a 78x75 inches = 40.625 sq ft of area. 100 cu ft would be 29.5 inches
deep, which is a lot, but they may be including all the space under the tonneau
cover, which slopes upwards toward the the cabin roof (and yes, that's a bit
of a cheat). The number *may* include the volume in a fairly small trunk
reached by a hatch in the floor of the bed, but that's only a few cubic feet.

Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/

Post by J. Clarke
Ford doesn't list a "cargo volume", what they list is a "cargo box
volume". I suspect that Tesla is reporting the volume they way it is
reported for a car, filling to the roof.
Bottom line--my motorcycle will fit in a long-bed F-150 with the
tailgate closed, it won't fit in the Tesla. The same is true for a
sheet of plywood.

How big is your bike? At the unveiling, they drove a Tesla electric quadbike
ATV up into the bed, and closed the tailgate. No, you can't fit an 8 foot
sheet of plywood inside flat. Nor can you in many pickups. You need a full
size station wagon, minivan, or extended bed to do that.

pt

Peter Trei

2019-11-25 04:48:48 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.

I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.

You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.

The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all. Extremetech
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302489-tesla-unveils-cybertruck-f-150
gives an uninterrupted 75 inch width (which is very plausible in the photos),
giving a 78x75 inches = 40.625 sq ft of area. 100 cu ft would be 29.5 inches
deep, which is a lot, but they may be including all the space under the tonneau
cover, which slopes upwards toward the the cabin roof (and yes, that's a bit
of a cheat). The number *may* include the volume in a fairly small trunk
reached by a hatch in the floor of the bed, but that's only a few cubic feet.
Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/

Just to add: the '100 cu ft of lockable exterior storage space' may also include
the 'frunk', a trunk storage space under the front hood. There isn't an
engine there, after all.

pt

J. Clarke

2019-11-25 05:16:36 UTC

On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 20:48:48 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.

I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.

You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.

The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all. Extremetech
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302489-tesla-unveils-cybertruck-f-150
gives an uninterrupted 75 inch width (which is very plausible in the photos),
giving a 78x75 inches = 40.625 sq ft of area. 100 cu ft would be 29.5 inches
deep, which is a lot, but they may be including all the space under the tonneau
cover, which slopes upwards toward the the cabin roof (and yes, that's a bit
of a cheat). The number *may* include the volume in a fairly small trunk
reached by a hatch in the floor of the bed, but that's only a few cubic feet.
Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/

Just to add: the '100 cu ft of lockable exterior storage space' may also include
the 'frunk', a trunk storage space under the front hood. There isn't an
engine there, after all.

A good point. However they should give the actual bed dimensions and
they don't.

Alan Baker

2019-11-25 21:12:43 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 20:48:48 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.

I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.

You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.

The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all. Extremetech
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302489-tesla-unveils-cybertruck-f-150
gives an uninterrupted 75 inch width (which is very plausible in the photos),
giving a 78x75 inches = 40.625 sq ft of area. 100 cu ft would be 29.5 inches
deep, which is a lot, but they may be including all the space under the tonneau
cover, which slopes upwards toward the the cabin roof (and yes, that's a bit
of a cheat). The number *may* include the volume in a fairly small trunk
reached by a hatch in the floor of the bed, but that's only a few cubic feet.
Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/

Just to add: the '100 cu ft of lockable exterior storage space' may also include
the 'frunk', a trunk storage space under the front hood. There isn't an
engine there, after all.

A good point. However they should give the actual bed dimensions and
they don't.

Actually, they do list the length of the bed... ...although they call it
the "vault": 6.5 feet.

J. Clarke

2019-11-25 05:15:38 UTC

On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 20:45:30 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.

I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.

You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.

The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all.

Motor Trend doesn't say anything about "wheelhouses" so it is not
clear what you are on about.

Post by Peter Trei
Extremetech
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/302489-tesla-unveils-cybertruck-f-150
gives an uninterrupted 75 inch width (which is very plausible in the photos),
giving a 78x75 inches = 40.625 sq ft of area.

Now let's see, they state that the Cybertruck is 78.8 inches wide, so
the wheels would have to be less than 1.9 inches wide for your
assertion to be true. The article you link contains "75" in two
places, once referring to _height_ and the other followed by a "0" to
give "750 HP".

Sorry, the Motor Trend numbers seem far more likely.

Post by Peter Trei
100 cu ft would be 29.5 inches
deep, which is a lot, but they may be including all the space under the tonneau
cover, which slopes upwards toward the the cabin roof (and yes, that's a bit
of a cheat). The number *may* include the volume in a fairly small trunk
reached by a hatch in the floor of the bed, but that's only a few cubic feet.

So they're measuring one way and Ford's measuring another and so
they're falsely making their "truck" look good.

Post by Peter Trei
Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/

Yes, we've all seen those, they're on the Tesla web site you know.
They do not give dimensions.

How big is your bike?

It's a commonplace 650. Any Suzuki 250 or larger won't fit. Same for
Kawasaki. Or just about any street bike.

Post by Peter Trei
At the unveiling, they drove a Tesla electric quadbike
ATV up into the bed, and closed the tailgate.

Yeah, they designed something to fit and so it fits.

Post by Peter Trei
No, you can't fit an 8 foot
sheet of plywood inside flat. Nor can you in many pickups. You need a full
size station wagon, minivan, or extended bed to do that.

The point is that an 8 foot bed is readily available on real trucks,
while Tesla doesn't and without a redesign can't have one.

Peter Trei

2019-11-25 17:51:30 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 20:45:30 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 14:16:50 -0600, Lynn McGuire

Post by Peter Trei
https://www.tesla.com/cybertruck
(scroll down for more photos and specs)
It looks like it rolled off the set of Bladerunner.

I would have guessed _Road Warrior_.
The retractable bed-cover flush with the upper surface is a useful feature that
will reduce aerodynamic drag at highway speeds. However, having the upper
surface curved up and down in a proper Kammback shape, rather than angled as
shown, would provide a significant increase in interior headroom and somewhat
https://ecomodder.com/blog/aerocaps-for-pick-up-trucks/
Of course, this is very well known by Tesla's designers. They clearly
wanted to have a distinctive looking car, and they have one. A production
version will probably have rear seat headroom sufficient for adults.

People who talk about how it doesn't have "rear seat headroom" don't
seem to understand how big the thing is. It's more than 6 feet tall.
I doubt that headroom is an issue.

You might want to take a closer look at the specs of your F-150 XLT vs the
Cybertruck.
First, let me concede towing and overall range. ICE engines are best under
heavy load, and EVs at light load. Towing is going to affect an EV truck more
than an ICE truck in terms of range. How it falls out economically, since
electrons are cheaper than oil, I can't say - EV may still be ahead.
The high end Cybertruck has 500 miles range, more than most ICE cars, but less
than your truck or my old Suburban (which I got 632 miles on once). The low
end one is 250 miles.
But there are other factors. It's actually a little smaller than your F-150,
and seats 6. Despite that the bed can hold 3500 lbs, more than the the Ford's.
It's also larger, 100 cubic feet, and has no wheel well intrusions.

The Motortrend numbers appear to be incorrect. Photos and video of the CT
show no wheelhouses at all.

Motor Trend doesn't say anything about "wheelhouses" so it is not
clear what you are on about.

Now let's see, they state that the Cybertruck is 78.8 inches wide, so
the wheels would have to be less than 1.9 inches wide for your
assertion to be true. The article you link contains "75" in two
places, once referring to _height_ and the other followed by a "0" to
give "750 HP".
Sorry, the Motor Trend numbers seem far more likely.

So they're measuring one way and Ford's measuring another and so
they're falsely making their "truck" look good.

Fair enough. Tesla may not advertise, but marketeers can mislead. Note that the
claimed box capacity on a 6.5 foot F150 is 62.3 cu ft.

Post by Peter Trei
Photos of bed: https://www.off-road.com/blog/2019/11/22/tesla-cybertruck-takes-aim-at-the-full-size-pickup-truck-market/

Yes, we've all seen those, they're on the Tesla web site you know.
They do not give dimensions.

How big is your bike?

It's a commonplace 650. Any Suzuki 250 or larger won't fit. Same for
Kawasaki. Or just about any street bike.

Post by Peter Trei
At the unveiling, they drove a Tesla electric quadbike
ATV up into the bed, and closed the tailgate.

Yeah, they designed something to fit and so it fits.

Post by Peter Trei
No, you can't fit an 8 foot
sheet of plywood inside flat. Nor can you in many pickups. You need a full
size station wagon, minivan, or extended bed to do that.

The point is that an 8 foot bed is readily available on real trucks,
while Tesla doesn't and without a redesign can't have one.

8 foot is readily available, yes. Yet the overwhelming choice is for shorter.
In fact, 6.5 feet is by far the most popular. I guess its not useful if you
have to move 4x8 foot sheets all the time, or tote a big MB, but its
more parkable, and sells very well. Not having an 8 foot option isn't a deal
killer for most buyers.

I haven't found a statement of the Tesla bed's internal width, but judging
from photos, the sidewalls aren't more than 4 inches thick. This suggests
an internal width 65-70 inches.

The F150 specs don't even mention the total width, just the width between
wheelhouses: 50.6 inches. That's the widest thing you can lay flat on the
bottom.

The Tesla's bed has no wheelhouses intruding into the bed, so its max width
is a lot more.

pt

Scott Lurndal

2019-11-25 17:57:34 UTC

Post by J. Clarke
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 20:45:30 -0800 (PST), Peter Trei
The point is that an 8 foot bed is readily available on real trucks,
while Tesla doesn't and without a redesign can't have one.

8 foot is readily available, yes. Yet the overwhelming choice is for shorter.
In fact, 6.5 feet is by far the most popular. I guess its not useful if you
have to move 4x8 foot sheets all the time,

Actually, they work quite well for transporting 4x8 sheets of plywood. With
the tailgate down, they only extend out another 12 inches. Most bedliners
have notches on the side level with the wheelwell top for two-by-fours used
to provide a level bed for sheetgoods.

J. Clarke

2019-11-25 18:22:42 UTC