Apple Event

Post by Ray
As there is no mention of it in here this morning I presume you were all less
than enthused by the presentation?

Astonishing, isn’t it? Time was when there would be a thread of 30 messages
before the event was even finished.

MST

Paul Sture

2017-09-13 12:30:40 UTC

Post by Martin S Taylor

Post by Ray
As there is no mention of it in here this morning I presume you were all less
than enthused by the presentation?

Astonishing, isn’t it? Time was when there would be a thread of 30 messages
before the event was even finished.

The last one I tried to watch was last year's announcement of the then
latest Macs. I was underwhelmed in the first quarter of an hour or so
and stopped watching then. They were gushing over things like "Oh it's
so slim".

It reminded me very much of Reggie Perrin's two sycophantic juniors'
exclamations of "Wow. Super. Fantastic".

--
Everybody has a testing environment. Some people are lucky enough to
have a totally separate environment to run production in.

Richard Tobin

2017-09-13 08:54:56 UTC

Post by Ray
As there is no mention of it in here this morning I presume you were all less
than enthused by the presentation?

Nothing of any interest to me, certainly.

-- Richard

Ian McCall

2017-09-13 12:05:18 UTC

Post by Ray
As there is no mention of it in here this morning I presume you were all less
than enthused by the presentation?

Nothing of any interest to me, certainly.

4k TV turned up as expected - that's it. I shall wait until someone
confirms the Logitech Harmony works with it, and then will order.

I was starting to watch the keynote whilst working from home, but the
first five minutes were so incredibly dull that I turned off and never
went back to it. Will likely watch some later, but...it also felt a bit
coltishly weird this time as well. Apple Watch as saviour of mankind,
the way the new stores were presented...bit creepy.

Thing is, I have this 7+ and it's by far my favourite phone. The iPhone
8 gives me nothing I care about, the X -might- be a nice new toy but
loses things I care about too (TouchID). I am deeply suspicious of
FaceIDs' potential to unlock things I don't want unlocked, so want to
see in the wild first.

No mention of the HomePod that I've read about either, which is
kinda-interesting-kinda-not to me (I think I'll stick with an old iPad
on a speaker dock - I like having a screen for things like TuneIn etc.).

Much more invested in the OS releases than the hardware. Few weeks to
go for that.

Cheers,
Ian

nospam

2017-09-13 12:24:48 UTC

Post by Ian McCall
4k TV turned up as expected - that's it. I shall wait until someone
confirms the Logitech Harmony works with it, and then will order.

if it works with the previous apple tv, then it should work with the
new one. all they did was add a white ring to the menu button.

Post by Ian McCall
I was starting to watch the keynote whilst working from home, but the
first five minutes were so incredibly dull that I turned off and never
went back to it.

the dedication to steve jobs was dull??

Post by Ian McCall
Will likely watch some later, but...it also felt a bit
coltishly weird this time as well. Apple Watch as saviour of mankind,
the way the new stores were presented...bit creepy.

eh?

Post by Ian McCall
Thing is, I have this 7+ and it's by far my favourite phone. The iPhone
8 gives me nothing I care about, the X -might- be a nice new toy but
loses things I care about too (TouchID). I am deeply suspicious of
FaceIDs' potential to unlock things I don't want unlocked, so want to
see in the wild first.

how so? if anything, it'll make it much easier to use the phone,
especially with wet fingers and certainly with gloves, along with
substantially more secure.

Post by Ian McCall
No mention of the HomePod that I've read about either, which is
kinda-interesting-kinda-not to me (I think I'll stick with an old iPad
on a speaker dock - I like having a screen for things like TuneIn etc.).

homepod is not going to ship until december so there's not much point
in talking about it now.

Post by Ian McCall
Much more invested in the OS releases than the hardware. Few weeks to
go for that.

one week for ios, two weeks for macos.

Ian McCall

2017-09-13 12:57:12 UTC

Post by Ian McCall
4k TV turned up as expected - that's it. I shall wait until someone
confirms the Logitech Harmony works with it, and then will order.

if it works with the previous apple tv, then it should work with the
new one. all they did was add a white ring to the menu button.

Post by Ian McCall
I was starting to watch the keynote whilst working from home, but the
first five minutes were so incredibly dull that I turned off and never
went back to it.

the dedication to steve jobs was dull??

No - more the Apple-as-temple thing. I understand the dedication to
Jobs and honestly I agree with it too, but there's no real way to avoid
the fact that Cook does not really have the same level of charisma to
carry it off in the same manner.

Post by Ian McCall
Will likely watch some later, but...it also felt a bit
coltishly weird this time as well. Apple Watch as saviour of mankind,
the way the new stores were presented...bit creepy.

eh?

autocorrect - "cultishly". Normally I roll my eyes at the standard
"Apple is a cult"-trope, but the presentation this time round really
didn't help. The super inspiring stories with the breathless string
music for the Apple Watch was s bit much in my opinion. Then the store
thing came on talking about Town Squares and Avenues and....

Yeah. Not for me.

how so? if anything, it'll make it much easier to use the phone,
especially with wet fingers and certainly with gloves, along with
substantially more secure.

I'm sat at my desk now. My phone is on a dock stand, it's locked. It is
less than an arm's length away from me and I'm looking at my laptop
with two other work monitors nearby as well.

FaceID in this physical circumstance would unlock the phone, surely.
But I don't want it unlocked - I want it locked.

Next example - I was paying for something at a drive-through last
night. Used ApplePay to do so. Phone was in my hand with my arm hanging
out of the car, being held at an almost horizontal attitude such that
my face would not be in sight, but that's fine because my finger was on
the home button and we're fine.

FaceID - how would that work? Perhaps it does, but I'd like to see it
in the wild first.

homepod is not going to ship until december so there's not much point
in talking about it now.

Yep agreed - was just part of the "this one wasn't very interesting to
me" colour.

Post by Ian McCall
Much more invested in the OS releases than the hardware. Few weeks to
go for that.

one week for ios, two weeks for macos.

Yep - now that one I actually am interested in because gives me two
practical things - face syncing on Photos and iMessage syncing too.
Rest sounds interesting and I may make use, but those two are immediate
wins for me.

Cheers,
Ian

nospam

2017-09-13 13:02:06 UTC

how so? if anything, it'll make it much easier to use the phone,
especially with wet fingers and certainly with gloves, along with
substantially more secure.

it's locked until you tap it. if someone else grabs it, it won't unlock.

Post by Ian McCall
Next example - I was paying for something at a drive-through last
night. Used ApplePay to do so. Phone was in my hand with my arm hanging
out of the car, being held at an almost horizontal attitude such that
my face would not be in sight, but that's fine because my finger was on
the home button and we're fine.
FaceID - how would that work? Perhaps it does, but I'd like to see it
in the wild first.

same way as the apple watch. double-press the side button, optionally
change card, authenticate with face, then hold phone over terminal and
pay.

it's actually *better* than how it used to be.

Ian McCall

2017-09-13 13:05:07 UTC

Post by nospam
same way as the apple watch. double-press the side button, optionally
change card, authenticate with face, then hold phone over terminal and
pay.
it's actually *better* than how it used to be.

Must say that definitely sounds worse to me. Remove phone from car
holder, press nice big friendly button and keep finger on it - done.

Ian

Graeme Wall

2017-09-13 16:30:21 UTC

how so? if anything, it'll make it much easier to use the phone,
especially with wet fingers and certainly with gloves, along with
substantially more secure.

it's locked until you tap it. if someone else grabs it, it won't unlock.

Sounds very insecure, it's easy to see a scenario where someone grabs it
off you when its in "I've just seen a face"(© Beatles) mode and taps on
it before looking at the screen.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

David Empson

2017-09-14 00:37:39 UTC

Post by Ian McCall
Much more invested in the OS releases than the hardware. Few weeks to
go for that.

one week for ios, two weeks for macos.

iCloud Messages has been delayed - it was in early betas but pulled from
later ones, e.g. from this article:

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/08/07/whats-new-in-ios-11-beta-5/

"Apple's iCloud Messages feature, which allows iMessages to be stored in
iCloud to free up space on an iOS or Mac device, has been removed in iOS
11 beta 5. Apple says the feature will be re-released in a future update
to iOS 11, suggesting there are no plans to add it back to the version
of iOS 11 that will launch in September alongside new iOS devices. It's
not clear why the iCloud Messages feature has been removed or exactly
when it'll come back."

It is no longer mentioned on Apple's feature overview pages:

https://www.apple.com/ios/
https://www.apple.com/macos/

--
David Empson
***@actrix.gen.nz

Ian McCall

2017-09-14 07:10:32 UTC

Post by David Empson

Post by Ian McCall
Much more invested in the OS releases than the hardware. Few weeks to
go for that.

one week for ios, two weeks for macos.

iCloud Messages has been delayed - it was in early betas but pulled from
https://www.macrumors.com/2017/08/07/whats-new-in-ios-11-beta-5/
<snip>

Oh FFS.

Think I'll just snooze the 2017 tech scene out then. Wake me up for the
New Year's Party.

Cheers,
Ian

D.M. Procida

2017-09-15 07:37:27 UTC

Then the store thing came on talking about Town Squares and Avenues and

Corporations already *own* many of our town centres. I don't mean the
buildings, I mean the actual land, in cities and towns across this
country. They look like public property, but they are not.

Calling Apple shops "Town Squares" is the linguistic side of a concerted
land-grab; they've got the actual land, now they're after the language
too.

It runs neatly alongside the stealthy privatisation of the NHS, and the
fact that I happen to like using a Mac doesn't make it any better when
Apple does it.

I can't decide whether this process will simply creep on unchecked, or
whether in a decade or so there will be the most horrendous backlash
against corporations' advances on public property. The latter, I hope.

Daniele

Graeme Wall

2017-09-15 07:59:11 UTC

Post by D.M. Procida

Then the store thing came on talking about Town Squares and Avenues and

What is stealthy about the privatisation of the NHS?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

D.M. Procida

2017-09-15 08:15:27 UTC

Post by D.M. Procida

Then the store thing came on talking about Town Squares and Avenues and

What is stealthy about the privatisation of the NHS?

I was just referring to the stealthy part, not the shameless overt part!

Daniele

Graeme Wall

2017-09-13 16:26:11 UTC

Post by Ian McCall
4k TV turned up as expected - that's it. I shall wait until someone
confirms the Logitech Harmony works with it, and then will order.

if it works with the previous apple tv, then it should work with the
new one. all they did was add a white ring to the menu button.

Post by Ian McCall
I was starting to watch the keynote whilst working from home, but the
first five minutes were so incredibly dull that I turned off and never
went back to it.

the dedication to steve jobs was dull??

Post by Ian McCall
Will likely watch some later, but...it also felt a bit
coltishly weird this time as well. Apple Watch as saviour of mankind,
the way the new stores were presented...bit creepy.

eh?

how so? if anything, it'll make it much easier to use the phone,
especially with wet fingers and certainly with gloves, along with
substantially more secure.

I'm not going to ask why you are using the phone with wet fingers.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

nospam

2017-09-13 17:05:46 UTC

how so? if anything, it'll make it much easier to use the phone,
especially with wet fingers and certainly with gloves, along with
substantially more secure.

I'm not going to ask why you are using the phone with wet fingers.

even a little moisture, such as after washing hands or eating something
greasy can affect it. even a little sweat can sometimes be an issue.

Bruce Horrocks

2017-09-13 17:50:21 UTC

I am deeply suspicious of FaceIDs' potential to unlock things I don't
want unlocked, so want to see in the wild first.

No doubt you've seen those 'hilarious' videos on Youtube where someone
is passed-out, drunk and his (occasionally her) friends decide that a
marker-pen moustache is required? Well, now they can have their phone
unlocked and embarrassing messages sent to family and friends as well.

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey
England
(bruce at scorecrow dot com)

nospam

2017-09-13 18:08:05 UTC

Post by Bruce Horrocks
No doubt you've seen those 'hilarious' videos on Youtube where someone
is passed-out, drunk and his (occasionally her) friends decide that a
marker-pen moustache is required? Well, now they can have their phone
unlocked and embarrassing messages sent to family and friends as well.

that won't work.

Graeme Wall

2017-09-13 18:46:39 UTC

that won't work.

Why not?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

nospam

2017-09-13 18:57:16 UTC

that won't work.

Why not?

it requires 'attention', including eyes being open and looking at the
phone. apple tested it against photos and mannequins.

the bigger question is how often do you anticipate being drunk and
passed out with 'friends' who are more concerned with playing games
than helping you.

Graeme Wall

2017-09-13 19:17:33 UTC

that won't work.

Why not?

it requires 'attention', including eyes being open and looking at the
phone. apple tested it against photos and mannequins.

I seem to remember a story about iris scanners that were tested to the
nth degree and were then fooled with a photograph.

Post by nospam
the bigger question is how often do you anticipate being drunk and
passed out with 'friends' who are more concerned with playing games
than helping you.

If you are a student…

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

nospam

2017-09-13 20:04:20 UTC

that won't work.

Why not?

it requires 'attention', including eyes being open and looking at the
phone. apple tested it against photos and mannequins.

I seem to remember a story about iris scanners that were tested to the
nth degree and were then fooled with a photograph.

no doubt you have. existing face unlock isn't particularly good.

the point is that apple's system is supposed to be better than previous
solutions.

prior to the iphone 5s, fingerprint sensors weren't that good either.

face unlock on the just released samsung galaxy s8 can be fooled by a
photo, one reason why samsung disallows it for samsung pay. even
samsung doesn't have confidence in it.

<https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/03/video-shows-galaxy-s8-face-reco
gnition-can-be-defeated-with-a-picture/>
...About six minutes into the 40-minute Spanish-language video, you
can see the attendee take a selfie with his personal phone, then
point it at the Galaxy S8, which is trained to unlock with his face.
It only takes a few minutes of fiddling before the Galaxy S8 gives in
and unlocks with just a picture, moving from the "secure" lock screen
right to the home screen. Once the user dials in his technique, he
shows the trick is easily repeatable.
...
Samsung seems to know face unlock is not the most secure feature on
Earth. It's the only one of the three biometric systems that can't be
used to authorize Samsung Pay purchases.

apple's face id scans faces with infrared dots to build a 3d facial
map, then uses a neural network to match.

that's going to be a *lot* harder to fool than with just a photo.

perhaps 3d printing someone's head and building an animatronic model
would work, but that's a shitload of effort just to unlock a phone. i'm
sure someone will try it and blog about it though.

keep in mind that touch id can also be fooled, also with a fair amount
of effort:
<https://www.engadget.com/2013/10/05/oh-look-another-easy-way-to-spoof-t
ouch-id-on-the-iphone-5s/>

and even if you use a passcode, someone could point a gun at your head
and demand that you unlock it or you die.

nothing is perfect.

Graeme Wall

2017-09-13 21:02:17 UTC

that won't work.

Why not?

it requires 'attention', including eyes being open and looking at the
phone. apple tested it against photos and mannequins.

I seem to remember a story about iris scanners that were tested to the
nth degree and were then fooled with a photograph.

no doubt you have. existing face unlock isn't particularly good.
the point is that apple's system is supposed to be better than previous
solutions.

Allegedly.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Bruce Horrocks

2017-09-14 22:07:49 UTC

that won't work.

Why not?

it requires 'attention', including eyes being open and looking at the
phone. apple tested it against photos and mannequins.

What if they paint eyes on his eyelids?

Post by nospam
the bigger question is how often do you anticipate being drunk and
passed out with 'friends' who are more concerned with playing games
than helping you.

If we substitute "soundly asleep" for "passed out" then, in my case, the
answer is just about every Sunday, after lunch, while the telly is
droning on. No alcohol required. :-)

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey
England
(bruce at scorecrow dot com)

Andy H

2017-09-13 15:36:08 UTC

Post by Ray
As there is no mention of it in here this morning I presume you were all less
than enthused by the presentation?

Not much of interest to me, as I simply can't afford anything like that
at the moment.

However, I think the iPhone 8 is the most underwhelming, and makes the
iPhone 7 at the new price look a bit tempting.

I think they should have disregarded the 'X' model, and made the iPhone
8 and 8+ with the X features (or at least the 8+ anyway). It would have
been much better competition for their peers.

Any bets on the Apple AirPower price - £200?

--
Andy Hewitt

nospam

2017-09-13 15:50:17 UTC

Post by Andy H
I think they should have disregarded the 'X' model, and made the iPhone
8 and 8+ with the X features (or at least the 8+ anyway). It would have
been much better competition for their peers.

the problem is manufacturing it in volume.

apple sells ~200 million iphones a year and reportedly, the yields on
the oled displays aren't at that level yet, perhaps other components as
well.

Post by Andy H
Any bets on the Apple AirPower price - £200?

nowhere near that high.

existing qi pads are around 1/10th that.

johnbrennand

2017-09-13 16:05:47 UTC

Any bets on the Apple AirPower price - Â£200?

nowhere near that high.
existing qi pads are around 1/10th that.

The Watch charger is Â£79.

AirPower bound to be pricier.... as it does 3 devices = Â£237 - with a
bit of discount - Â£199 sounds about right :-)

JohnB

nospam

2017-09-13 16:20:00 UTC

Post by johnbrennand

Any bets on the Apple AirPower price - Â£200?

nowhere near that high.
existing qi pads are around 1/10th that.

The Watch charger is Â£79.

£29.00:
<https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MKLG2ZM/A/apple-watch-magnetic-ch
arging-cable-1m?fnode=83>

plug that into *any* usb compliant power adapter or usb battery.

Post by johnbrennand
AirPower bound to be pricier.... as it does 3 devices = Â£237 - with a
bit of discount - Â£199 sounds about right :-)

much too high unless it comes with a very powerful mains adapter that
can charge 3 iphones at the same time without compromise.

Andy H

2017-09-13 16:45:56 UTC

Post by johnbrennand

Any bets on the Apple AirPower price - Â£200?

nowhere near that high.
existing qi pads are around 1/10th that.

The Watch charger is Â£79.

<https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MKLG2ZM/A/apple-watch-magnetic-ch
arging-cable-1m?fnode=83>
plug that into *any* usb compliant power adapter or usb battery.

The charging dock/pad is £79.

Post by johnbrennand
AirPower bound to be pricier.... as it does 3 devices = Â£237 - with a
bit of discount - Â£199 sounds about right :-)

much too high unless it comes with a very powerful mains adapter that
can charge 3 iphones at the same time without compromise.

With the Belkin and Mophie iPhone Qi pads at £54 for a single unit
charge, I'd think the Airpower would be about right somewhere around
£200 if it can charge three iPhones at once, maybe a bit pricey if
that's one iPhone and two smaller devices. Mind you, having a set of
devices, one of each, might be a normal expectation.

--
Andy Hewitt

nospam

2017-09-13 17:05:47 UTC

Post by Andy H

Post by johnbrennand

Any bets on the Apple AirPower price - Â£200?

nowhere near that high.
existing qi pads are around 1/10th that.

The Watch charger is Â£79.

<https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/product/MKLG2ZM/A/apple-watch-magnetic-ch
arging-cable-1m?fnode=83>
plug that into *any* usb compliant power adapter or usb battery.

The charging dock/pad is £79.

that's a fancier pad with a charge puck that flips up or down.

Post by Andy H

Post by johnbrennand
AirPower bound to be pricier.... as it does 3 devices = Â£237 - with a
bit of discount - Â£199 sounds about right :-)

much too high unless it comes with a very powerful mains adapter that
can charge 3 iphones at the same time without compromise.

i doubt it will charge three iphones at full rates.

they showed an iphone, a watch and airpods, the latter two not needing
much current.

Chris Ridd

2017-09-13 19:49:35 UTC

Post by Ray
As there is no mention of it in here this morning I presume you were all less
than enthused by the presentation?

No, just thwarted by eternal september's current dodginess.

--
Chris

Bernd Fröhlich

2017-09-14 07:08:17 UTC

Post by Ray
As there is no mention of it in here this morning I presume you were all less
than enthused by the presentation?

I saw it, but there was nothing in it that interested me.
I don´t have a tv since the last millennium, I don´t wear a watch, I am
perfectly happy with my iPhone SE.
The one thing that would interest me would be a MacBook Pro without
touchbar and with more ports.
Well, I´ll just keep using my mid 2012 MBP a few years longer...

Chris

2017-09-15 07:40:12 UTC

Post by Bernd FrÃ¶hlich

Post by Ray
As there is no mention of it in here this morning I presume you were all less
than enthused by the presentation?

Having just got one. I quite like the touch bar. It's pretty intuitive and
responsive, although it does add additional keypresses in order to change
volume, say. TouchID is useful.

The usb-c ports, on the other hand, are an absolute nightmare. Nothing I
currently own works with them, so I have to buy dongles to either replace
them or make them work. Then, not all usb-c cables will do displays. With
no physical way to differentiate them it'll be pot luck if you pick up the
right one.

Chris Ridd

2017-09-15 19:50:43 UTC

Post by Chris
Having just got one. I quite like the touch bar. It's pretty intuitive and
responsive, although it does add additional keypresses in order to change
volume, say. TouchID is useful.

Programs that use Esc as a meta key feel quite odd. Esc-D to delete a
word forward is really odd without the physical feedback from the Esc.

Touch ID is great though. Installer packages use it. 1Password uses it.

Post by Chris
The usb-c ports, on the other hand, are an absolute nightmare. Nothing I
currently own works with them, so I have to buy dongles to either replace
them or make them work. Then, not all usb-c cables will do displays. With
no physical way to differentiate them it'll be pot luck if you pick up the
right one.

They're slightly irritating, but not a nightmare. I have a couple of
USB-C to DisplayPort cables which work fine. I have a USB-C to USB mini
(or is it micro?) B that works well for charging my wireless earphones
and Kobo. I have the Apple USB-C/USB-A/HDMI dongle thing as well which
works for everything else (I put the power into the dongle's USB-C, and
the dongle's USB-C into the Mac, so don't lose any sockets.)

Oh, and I've an Apple USB-C to Lightning cable. Actually that's much
nicer than Apple's old USB-A to Lightning cables as it is tougher and
thicker.

There is still a dearth of USB-C devices. I had to get a USB headset
recently, and they're only USB-A. You can't seem to get PKCS#11-type
security doodads with USB-C yet either.

--
Chris

Chris

2017-09-16 15:56:03 UTC

Post by Chris
Having just got one. I quite like the touch bar. It's pretty intuitive and
responsive, although it does add additional keypresses in order to change
volume, say. TouchID is useful.

Programs that use Esc as a meta key feel quite odd. Esc-D to delete a
word forward is really odd without the physical feedback from the Esc.
Touch ID is great though. Installer packages use it. 1Password uses it.

They're slightly irritating, but not a nightmare.

Much more than "slightly".

I have a monitor, Ethernet and several usb peripherals which all need new
cables or adapters for them to work. I already have all the thunderbolt
ones which are now obsolete :(

I ended up getting a docking station to avoid clutter and rationalise
things a bit.

Things like pen drives are unlikely to migrate to usb c any time soon.

I'm dreading giving my next presentation at a meeting. HDMI is hardly
ubiquitous.

nospam

2017-09-16 17:02:42 UTC

Post by Chris
Things like pen drives are unlikely to migrate to usb c any time soon.

nonsense.

here's just a few:
<https://www.transcend-info.com/Products/No-750>
<https://www.sandisk.com/home/mobile-device-storage/ultra-usb-type-c>
<http://www.lexar.com/products/usb-flash-drives/Lexar-JumpDrive-M20c-USB-
Type-C.html>

some do both:
<https://www.kingston.com/en/usb/personal_business/DTDUO3C>
<https://www.sandisk.com/home/mobile-device-storage/ultra-dual-drive-usb-
type-c>

Post by Chris
I'm dreading giving my next presentation at a meeting. HDMI is hardly
ubiquitous.

nonsense again.

hdmi/dvi is everywhere and has been for *years*, but regardless, you'd
still need an adapter since older macbooks don't have an obsolete vga
port.

Chris Ridd

2017-09-16 17:50:46 UTC

Post by Chris
Things like pen drives are unlikely to migrate to usb c any time soon.

nonsense.
<https://www.transcend-info.com/Products/No-750>
<https://www.sandisk.com/home/mobile-device-storage/ultra-usb-type-c>
<http://www.lexar.com/products/usb-flash-drives/Lexar-JumpDrive-M20c-USB-
Type-C.html>

Nice finds.

Post by nospam
<https://www.kingston.com/en/usb/personal_business/DTDUO3C>
<https://www.sandisk.com/home/mobile-device-storage/ultra-dual-drive-usb-
type-c>

Those look more useful at present in a dual USB-A/USB-C world.

--
Chris

nospam

2017-09-16 18:01:56 UTC

Post by Chris
Things like pen drives are unlikely to migrate to usb c any time soon.

Nice finds.

took maybe 5 seconds of searching.

Post by nospam
<https://www.kingston.com/en/usb/personal_business/DTDUO3C>
<https://www.sandisk.com/home/mobile-device-storage/ultra-dual-drive-usb-
type-c>

Those look more useful at present in a dual USB-A/USB-C world.

a world that's quickly ending.

in another year or so, just about everything will be usb-c, and all the
whining and complaining about adapters will be a thing of the past.

Chris

2017-09-16 19:35:20 UTC

Post by Chris
Things like pen drives are unlikely to migrate to usb c any time soon.

Nice finds.

took maybe 5 seconds of searching.

Post by nospam
<https://www.kingston.com/en/usb/personal_business/DTDUO3C>
<https://www.sandisk.com/home/mobile-device-storage/ultra-dual-drive-usb-
type-c>

Those look more useful at present in a dual USB-A/USB-C world.

a world that's quickly ending.
in another year or so, just about everything will be usb-c, and all the
whining and complaining about adapters will be a thing of the past.

So all current USB-A only computers will magically disappear, will they?
Don't be so daft.

nospam

2017-09-16 19:55:21 UTC

Post by Chris Ridd
Those look more useful at present in a dual USB-A/USB-C world.

a world that's quickly ending.
in another year or so, just about everything will be usb-c, and all the
whining and complaining about adapters will be a thing of the past.

So all current USB-A only computers will magically disappear, will they?

they don't need to disappear entirely. new computers will have usb-c
which will replace the old usb-a computers. new peripherals will have
usb-c to support the new computers. those who keep using the older
computers will be the minority, and they already have peripherals
anyway.

Steve H

2017-09-16 19:58:22 UTC

Post by Chris Ridd
Those look more useful at present in a dual USB-A/USB-C world.

a world that's quickly ending.
in another year or so, just about everything will be usb-c, and all the
whining and complaining about adapters will be a thing of the past.

So all current USB-A only computers will magically disappear, will they?

Is USB-C really catching on?

Several times at work recently, customers have been desperately looking
for USB-C charging cables for new-ish mobiles, but it appears they're
barely available anywhere. Doesn't help that it looks like a micro-USB.

--
Steve H

nospam

2017-09-16 20:09:17 UTC

Post by Chris Ridd
Those look more useful at present in a dual USB-A/USB-C world.

a world that's quickly ending.
in another year or so, just about everything will be usb-c, and all the
whining and complaining about adapters will be a thing of the past.

So all current USB-A only computers will magically disappear, will they?

Is USB-C really catching on?

absolutely.

it's quite a bit faster, and with a much better connector too.

Post by Steve H
Several times at work recently, customers have been desperately looking
for USB-C charging cables for new-ish mobiles, but it appears they're
barely available anywhere.

they didn't look too hard:
<https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/best-usb-type-c-cables/>
<https://www.monoprice.com/pages/usb_31_type_c>
<https://www.anker.com/products/110/163/USB-Type-C-Cables>

just be sure they're not crap:
<https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-find-safe-usb-type-c-cables>

Post by Steve H
Doesn't help that it looks like a micro-USB.

not really, especially micro-usb 3.0, which is one of the worst
connectors ever designed.

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2017-09-16 20:26:07 UTC

Post by Chris Ridd
Those look more useful at present in a dual USB-A/USB-C world.

a world that's quickly ending.
in another year or so, just about everything will be usb-c, and all the
whining and complaining about adapters will be a thing of the past.

So all current USB-A only computers will magically disappear, will they?

Is USB-C really catching on?

absolutely.

Could do with it being faster, tbh. There have been some stumbles -
Displayport adapter chipsets were unusably janky up until last November
or so, and it's still hard to find a C hub that gets good reviews. Other
stuff I've just bought new cables for, rather than dicking around with
adapters. No problems.

I do wonder if one of the things that's stopping Apple going USB-C for
iThings is that Lightning plugs will "fit" into USB-C ports if you push
hard enough, cracking the tongue in the process. That's a debacle
waiting to happen.

Post by Steve H
Doesn't help that it looks like a micro-USB.

not really, especially micro-usb 3.0, which is one of the worst
connectors ever designed.

I actually burst out laughing when I first saw one, I thought it was a
remarkable practical joke. The horror.

The most recent match for awfulness for me was back in the 90s when a
Centronics printer cable was plug-compatible to many Unix
workstation/Apple SCSI ports and an external SCSI device, but not
signal-compatible for more than a few seconds...

Cheers - Jaimie

--
You can't get a leopard to change his spots. In fact, you can't /really/ get a
leopard to appreciate the notion that it has spots. You can explain it carefully
to the leopard, but it will just sit there looking at you, knowing that you are
made of meat. After a while it will perhaps kill you. -- Geoffrey Pullum

nospam

2017-09-16 20:31:35 UTC

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
I do wonder if one of the things that's stopping Apple going USB-C for
iThings is that Lightning plugs will "fit" into USB-C ports if you push
hard enough, cracking the tongue in the process. That's a debacle
waiting to happen.

apple needed to switch away from the 30 pin dock connector and usb-c
didn't exist at that time, so they came up with lightning.

changing from lightning to usb-c would *really* piss off people,
especially just a few years after they just switched to lightning,
although the long term gains might be worth it.

on the other hand, lightning is thinner than usb-c and designed to snap
under torque, plus apple can change any aspect of it at any time
without having to deal with lengthy committee approvals.

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2017-09-16 20:44:08 UTC

apple needed to switch away from the 30 pin dock connector and usb-c
didn't exist at that time, so they came up with lightning.

Yeah - I know the story. Damn fine change, and I prefer the Lightning
form factor to USB-C. Stupid tongues.

It is still a great pity the USB-C spec didn't get ratified a couple of
years earlier but that's committees for you.

Post by nospam
changing from lightning to usb-c would *really* piss off people,
especially just a few years after they just switched to lightning,
although the long term gains might be worth it.
on the other hand, lightning is thinner than usb-c and designed to snap
under torque, plus apple can change any aspect of it at any time
without having to deal with lengthy committee approvals.

Yep.

On the plus side for USB-C in Apple devices, the port component units
can apparently be thinner than Lightning ports, all connections being on
the centre. So that's some attractive incentive.

Cheers - Jaimie

nospam

2017-09-16 20:51:08 UTC

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On the plus side for USB-C in Apple devices, the port component units
can apparently be thinner than Lightning ports, all connections being on
the centre. So that's some attractive incentive.

other way around. lightning is thinner.

<http://josh-ua.co/blog/2015/3/15/usb-c-dimensions-size-comparison-with-
the-lightning-port-and-usb-type-a>

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2017-09-16 21:19:10 UTC

other way around. lightning is thinner.
<http://josh-ua.co/blog/2015/3/15/usb-c-dimensions-size-comparison-with-the-lightning-port-and-usb-type-a>

That's showing the size of the *external hole*, not the component unit
that contains the socket and therefore forces a minimum size of the
device it's in.

I can't find direct physical specs of the components to compare, but
checking pics a replacement Lightning port is way chubbier than what you
see externally, while a USB-C port is entirely contained within the
socket size. Examples:

Lightning:
<Loading Image...

?
USB-C:
<Loading Image...

>

It's not evidence either way, I'd be interested if anyone else can find
real specs. I originally got the factoid from a Gruber post which I
can't find now.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
I like my coffee how I like my women...
but I can't get coffee that's independent, intelligent and has a
career of its own. - Eric Jarvis, urs

nospam

2017-09-16 21:30:27 UTC

other way around. lightning is thinner.

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
<http://josh-ua.co/blog/2015/3/15/usb-c-dimensions-size-comparison-with-the-

lightning-port-and-usb-type-a>

That's showing the size of the *external hole*, not the component unit
that contains the socket and therefore forces a minimum size of the
device it's in.
I can't find direct physical specs of the components to compare, but
checking pics a replacement Lightning port is way chubbier than what you
see externally, while a USB-C port is entirely contained within the
socket size.

the person who created that diagram based it on physical specs.

there's also the torque issue. lightning is designed to snap the plug.
usb-c is not, so it will likely snap the socket in the device, which is
quite a bit worse, especially in a phone.

Steve H

2017-09-16 21:02:52 UTC

Post by Steve H
Several times at work recently, customers have been desperately looking
for USB-C charging cables for new-ish mobiles, but it appears they're
barely available anywhere.

<https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/best-usb-type-c-cables/>
<https://www.monoprice.com/pages/usb_31_type_c>
<https://www.anker.com/products/110/163/USB-Type-C-Cables>
<https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/how-to-find-safe-usb-type-c-cables>

Not much help when you're on the road and need to find a cable in a
petrol station / service area! (I'm an account manager in the fuels
industry, so spend most of my week on forecourts etc)

--
Steve H

nospam

2017-09-16 21:30:26 UTC

Post by Steve H
Several times at work recently, customers have been desperately looking
for USB-C charging cables for new-ish mobiles, but it appears they're
barely available anywhere.

Not much help when you're on the road and need to find a cable in a
petrol station / service area! (I'm an account manager in the fuels
industry, so spend most of my week on forecourts etc)

bring a cable with you next time.

Steve H

2017-09-16 21:33:39 UTC

Post by Steve H
Not much help when you're on the road and need to find a cable in a
petrol station / service area! (I'm an account manager in the fuels
industry, so spend most of my week on forecourts etc)

bring a cable with you next time.

It wasn't me. None of the suppliers into the convenience and forecourts
business is currently supplying a USB-C charging solution.

--
Steve H

Chris Ridd

2017-09-16 17:49:19 UTC

Post by Chris
I ended up getting a docking station to avoid clutter and rationalise
things a bit.

That might be a good idea - I've got an old USB-A hub plugged into my
Apple USB-A/HDMI/USB-C dongle and that works pretty well.

Post by Chris
Things like pen drives are unlikely to migrate to usb c any time soon.

I've noticed a dual USB-A/C memory stick:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/SanDisk-Ultra-Flash-Drive-Connector/dp/B00V62XBY8

Post by Chris
I'm dreading giving my next presentation at a meeting. HDMI is hardly
ubiquitous.

Despite the spelling mistake in the company name these work well for
DisplayPort: http://plugable.com/products/usbc-dp/ It looks like they
have other useful things too.

--
Chris

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2017-09-16 21:28:02 UTC

Post by Chris
I have a monitor, Ethernet and several usb peripherals which all need new
cables or adapters for them to work. I already have all the thunderbolt
ones which are now obsolete :(
I ended up getting a docking station to avoid clutter and rationalise
things a bit.
Things like pen drives are unlikely to migrate to usb c any time soon.
I'm dreading giving my next presentation at a meeting. HDMI is hardly
ubiquitous.

My usual source of USB-C oddities just spammed me about their new
everything-including-VGA USB-C converter,
https://www.hypershop.com/products/hyperdrive-ultimate-usb-c-hub-for-macbook-pc-usb-c-devices

Their other bits'n'bobs at
https://www.hypershop.com/collections/usb-type-c have turned out very
reliable.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random
digits is, of course, in a state of sin. -- John von Neumann

Ian McCall

2017-09-14 13:43:16 UTC

Post by Ray
As there is no mention of it in here this morning I presume you were all less
than enthused by the presentation?

Finally managed to see the iPhone X presentation. Honestly, it looks a
bit of a me-too catch-up phone (Samsung had the wrap-around, others
have had Chi, others have had face recognition etc.), but nothing wrong
with that. It does look like a -nice- catch-up phone though, and I'll
bet that chip it uses makes things run better than most/all of its
competition.

Control Centre now looks rubbish - swipe from the status indicators?
I'm left-handed and essentially never touch the phone with my right
hand unless typing. I would also now have to use two hands, one to hold
the phone and the other to reach up to the status bar. Torch is
something I use a fair amount, usually when looking for something on
the floor and realising I can't see. This will be less convenient to
me, not more. Still concerned by FaceID and would like to know how wide
an angle it needs to unlock - I use an air-vent mount, and am thinking
specifically here of stuff like "Siri, launch Google Maps" which is
followed immediately by "You'll need to unlock your iPhone first". In
the car I can do that without looking, same as I'd hit a radio preset
button. Don't know if the angles would allow that with FaceID - of
course, I don't know that it -wouldn't- allow it either, just would
like to know a little more.

I don't like the appearance of the steel band, makes it look like a
blown-up 4 to me. Oh, and they've taken my choice of colour away too -
I liked whatever they called the matt black one, which seems to be no
longer offered.

Rest though - yeah, looks alright. Does have the feeling of catch up
and nothing wow though. Because I'm on the upgrade program I will
likely end up with one and I'll probably like it after use. Had I -not-
been on the upgrade programme though, I think I'd be sticking with my
7+ and waiting for the next gen.

Cheers,
Ian

--
Check out Proto the album: <http://studioicm.com/proto/>

Chris

2017-09-15 08:22:26 UTC

Post by Ray
As there is no mention of it in here this morning I presume you were all less
than enthused by the presentation?

I'd missed that. I'm leftie also and that's going to be a pita! The bottom
of the screen is much more sensible.

Post by Ian McCall
Still concerned by FaceID and would like to know how wide
an angle it needs to unlock - I use an air-vent mount, and am thinking
specifically here of stuff like "Siri, launch Google Maps" which is
followed immediately by "You'll need to unlock your iPhone first". In
the car I can do that without looking, same as I'd hit a radio preset
button. Don't know if the angles would allow that with FaceID - of
course, I don't know that it -wouldn't- allow it either, just would
like to know a little more.

There are quite a few scenarios where faceID is less convenient than
TouchID. I'm not convinced it's any more secure either.

Post by Ian McCall
I don't like the appearance of the steel band, makes it look like a
blown-up 4 to me. Oh, and they've taken my choice of colour away too -
I liked whatever they called the matt black one, which seems to be no
longer offered.
Rest though - yeah, looks alright. Does have the feeling of catch up
and nothing wow though. Because I'm on the upgrade program I will
likely end up with one and I'll probably like it after use. Had I -not-
been on the upgrade programme though, I think I'd be sticking with my
7+ and waiting for the next gen.

Isn't the 8/8+ on your upgrade path rather than the X?

Also, are Apple going to have change their model numbers in two year's
time? What's to come after the iPhone 9/9+?

Ray

2017-09-15 08:57:54 UTC

Post by Chris
Also, are Apple going to have change their model numbers in two year's
time? What's to come after the iPhone 9/9+?

Why assume there will be a 9?
We haven’t yet seen MacOS 11.

--
A bachelor is a selfish, undeserving guy who has cheated some woman out
of a divorce.
--Don Quinn

Ray

2017-09-15 09:09:36 UTC

Post by Ray

Post by Chris
Also, are Apple going to have change their model numbers in two year's
time? What's to come after the iPhone 9/9+?

Why assume there will be a 9?
We haven’t yet seen MacOS 11.

That should be OS XI.
Point is it looks like Apple is breaking with it’s model sequences in
hardware and some software.
Unless the iPhone X, and possibly iPhone XI, is going to evolve into
something beyond a smart phone, leaving current sequential numbering to
continue with lower spec devices.

Chris

2017-09-15 14:24:03 UTC

Post by Ray

Post by Chris
Also, are Apple going to have change their model numbers in two year's
time? What's to come after the iPhone 9/9+?

Why assume there will be a 9?

Since the 3GS we've had the 4, 4S, 5, 5S, 6(+), 6S(+), 7(+), 8(+).
There's definitely a trend so assuming a 9 next year is a safe
assumption *unless* the iphone X indicates a new naming scheme. iPhone Y?

Post by Ray
We haven’t yet seen MacOS 11.

Not yet. If there is another big shift of OS, like there was with OSX
from OS 9, then we may see an OS 11/XI.

Richard Tobin

2017-09-15 17:20:04 UTC

Post by Chris
Since the 3GS we've had the 4, 4S, 5, 5S, 6(+), 6S(+), 7(+), 8(+).
There's definitely a trend so assuming a 9 next year is a safe
assumption *unless* the iphone X indicates a new naming scheme. iPhone Y?

Well, they went from the first iPhone to the 3Gs without a 2.

-- Richard

nospam

2017-09-15 18:03:00 UTC

Well, they went from the first iPhone to the 3Gs without a 2.

no they didn't.

they went from iphone to the iphone 3g because the second model added
3g cellular, something the original iphone lacked.

the third iphone looked the same as the iphone 3g and was quite a bit
faster, so they called it the 3gs, with the s for speed.

the fourth iphone was a complete redesign and was called the iphone 4,
followed by the 4s, which looked the same as the 4, with the s for
siri.

at that point, it became a pattern and didn't really mean anything
anymore.

now they're finally breaking away from that.

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2017-09-15 19:26:21 UTC

Well, they went from the first iPhone to the 3Gs without a 2.

no they didn't.
they went from iphone to the iphone 3g because the second model added
3g cellular, something the original iphone lacked.
the third iphone looked the same as the iphone 3g and was quite a bit
faster, so they called it the 3gs, with the s for speed.
the fourth iphone was a complete redesign and was called the iphone 4,
followed by the 4s, which looked the same as the 4, with the s for
siri.

Was there really a formal declaration of S = Speed or Siri? I don't
recall any.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
"Meanwhile, guinea pigs are displaying the survival instincts of lemmings
... quite astonishingly, 2.86 per cent of the little blighters have been
damaged by a karaoke machine."
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/17/pet_wii_problem/

nospam

2017-09-15 19:31:51 UTC

Well, they went from the first iPhone to the 3Gs without a 2.

no they didn't.
they went from iphone to the iphone 3g because the second model added
3g cellular, something the original iphone lacked.
the third iphone looked the same as the iphone 3g and was quite a bit
faster, so they called it the 3gs, with the s for speed.
the fourth iphone was a complete redesign and was called the iphone 4,
followed by the 4s, which looked the same as the 4, with the s for
siri.

Was there really a formal declaration of S = Speed or Siri? I don't
recall any.

yes.

<https://www.cultofmac.com/170338/tim-cook-explains-how-apple-names-its-
products-iphone-4s-stands-for-siri/>
During the Q&A session at D10 today Apple CEO Tim Cook was asked an
interesting question about how his company names its products. While
many have speculated as to why Apple called the fifth-generation
iPhone the ³4S² back in October, Cook confirmed that the smartphone
was named after its flagship feature, Siri.
...
³You can stick with the name and people generally love that, or you
can put a number at the end which denotes the generation,² said Cook.
³And if you keep the same industrial design, as in the case of the
4S, some people might say it stands for Siri or speed. We were
thinking of Siri when we did it. For the 3GS we were thinking of
speed.²

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_3GS>
This iPhone is named "3GS" where "S" stood for Speed (Phil Schiller
had mentioned it in the launch keynote).

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2017-09-15 21:41:36 UTC

Well, they went from the first iPhone to the 3Gs without a 2.

no they didn't.
they went from iphone to the iphone 3g because the second model added
3g cellular, something the original iphone lacked.
the third iphone looked the same as the iphone 3g and was quite a bit
faster, so they called it the 3gs, with the s for speed.
the fourth iphone was a complete redesign and was called the iphone 4,
followed by the 4s, which looked the same as the 4, with the s for
siri.

Was there really a formal declaration of S = Speed or Siri? I don't
recall any.

yes.
<https://www.cultofmac.com/170338/tim-cook-explains-how-apple-names-its-
products-iphone-4s-stands-for-siri/>
During the Q&A session at D10 today Apple CEO Tim Cook was asked an
interesting question about how his company names its products. While
many have speculated as to why Apple called the fifth-generation
iPhone the ³4S² back in October, Cook confirmed that the smartphone
was named after its flagship feature, Siri.
...
³You can stick with the name and people generally love that, or you
can put a number at the end which denotes the generation,² said Cook.
³And if you keep the same industrial design, as in the case of the
4S, some people might say it stands for Siri or speed. We were
thinking of Siri when we did it. For the 3GS we were thinking of
speed.²
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_3GS>
This iPhone is named "3GS" where "S" stood for Speed (Phil Schiller
had mentioned it in the launch keynote).

Cor. Well remembered (and well found!)

Cheers - Jaimie

--
I always wanted to be someone. I should have been more specific.
-- Lily Tomlin

Richard Tobin

2017-09-16 10:07:46 UTC

Post by Richard Tobin
Well, they went from the first iPhone to the 3Gs without a 2.

no they didn't.

The s was a typo.

-- Richard

nospam

2017-09-16 15:14:15 UTC

Post by Richard Tobin
Well, they went from the first iPhone to the 3Gs without a 2.

no they didn't.

The s was a typo.

that doesn't change anything.

the second iphone was called an iphone 3g because it added 3g.

Richard Tobin

2017-09-16 16:01:42 UTC

Post by Richard Tobin
Well, they went from the first iPhone to the 3Gs without a 2.

no they didn't.

The s was a typo.

that doesn't change anything.
the second iphone was called an iphone 3g because it added 3g.

With the result that they missed out 2. It would be analogous if
they missed out 9 because of using "X".

-- Richard

nospam

2017-09-16 17:02:41 UTC

Post by Richard Tobin
Well, they went from the first iPhone to the 3Gs without a 2.

no they didn't.

The s was a typo.

that doesn't change anything.
the second iphone was called an iphone 3g because it added 3g.

With the result that they missed out 2. It would be analogous if
they missed out 9 because of using "X".

you still don't get it. they didn't miss out on 2.

they named the iphone 3g based on its defining feature, that being a 3g
radio.

had there been lte at that time, it likely would have been called the
iphone lte.

other apple products were also named for their defining features, such
as powerbook g4 because it had a g4 chip inside, or macbook pro because
it's more powerful than a regular macbook.

Chris

2017-09-16 15:39:03 UTC

Well, they went from the first iPhone to the 3Gs without a 2.

That's why I started from the 3GS, obviously.

Ian McCall

2017-09-15 12:03:30 UTC

...I'm leftie also and that's going to be a pita! The bottom

of the screen is much more sensible.

Yep - they had to move it given their choice of unlock mechanism, but
making it inaccessible for single-handed left-handed use is less than
great.

Still concerned by FaceID and would like to know how wide
an angle it needs to unlock - I use an air-vent mount, and am thinking
specifically here of stuff like "Siri, launch Google Maps" which is
followed immediately by "You'll need to unlock your iPhone first". In
the car I can do that without looking, same as I'd hit a radio preset
button. Don't know if the angles would allow that with FaceID - of
course, I don't know that it -wouldn't- allow it either, just would
like to know a little more.

There are quite a few scenarios where faceID is less convenient than
TouchID. I'm not convinced it's any more secure either.

Also, am I picking up right that it's only one face it will recognise?
So I couldn't be set up as trusted to unlock someone else's then? Like
my kids, who I have legal responsibility for...

Post by Chris
Isn't the 8/8+ on your upgrade path rather than the X?

Just seems way too similar. It really is the 7S - if I'm changing, I'd
like to change for a reason.

Cheers,
Ian

--
Check out Proto the album: <http://studioicm.com/proto/>

nospam

2017-09-15 14:13:33 UTC

Post by Ian McCall
Also, am I picking up right that it's only one face it will recognise?

one face

Post by Ian McCall
So I couldn't be set up as trusted to unlock someone else's then? Like
my kids, who I have legal responsibility for...

passcode.

Chris

2017-09-16 15:45:02 UTC

...I'm leftie also and that's going to be a pita! The bottom

of the screen is much more sensible.

Yep - they had to move it given their choice of unlock mechanism, but
making it inaccessible for single-handed left-handed use is less than
great.

There are quite a few scenarios where faceID is less convenient than
TouchID. I'm not convinced it's any more secure either.

Also, am I picking up right that it's only one face it will recognise?
So I couldn't be set up as trusted to unlock someone else's then? Like
my kids, who I have legal responsibility for...

That's another weakness, then. I like giving my wife access to my phone via
TouchID. Easier than having to remember a rarely used passcode.

2017-09-17 08:49:58 UTC

Post by Chris
Isn't the 8/8+ on your upgrade path rather than the X?

Just seems way too similar. It really is the 7S - if I'm changing, I'd
like to change for a reason.

Did you have a 6s before the 7 and if so was the 7 much of a upgrade?

I've got a 6s Plus and I'm feeling slightly tempted by the either of the
8 models.

Stuart

--
cut that out to reply

Ian McCall

2017-09-17 09:22:43 UTC

Post by SM

Post by Chris
Isn't the 8/8+ on your upgrade path rather than the X?

Just seems way too similar. It really is the 7S - if I'm changing, I'd
like to change for a reason.

Did you have a 6s before the 7 and if so was the 7 much of a upgrade?

I had a 6, not the 6S. The 6 is easily my least favourite iPhone, the
7+ easily my favourite. The software and speed on the 6 fine but as a
device it was just ridiculously flimsy. The whole bendgate thing that
was supposedly overblown - not overblown in my experience. Needed a
screen repair too and never felt correct after that happened (Apple
Store repaired). Paint flaked off easily... Really didn't like my 6. Am
told that the 6S was built more durably though, so not sure of the
comparison there.

What was a massive upgrade was going standard -> + model. Really didn't
notice any difference in cariability, and within hours (literally, not
days) the old phone felt small and a bit pokey. It's why I'm
considering the X even with some of my doubts - I've found that bigger
screens are what I like, so that's what I'm going for.

One thing to note though - the TouchID sensor on the 7 range compared
to the 6. It is -vastly- better, and made Apple Pay viable for me. It's
now my primary way of paying for things.

Cheers,
Ian

RJH

2017-09-17 09:46:59 UTC

Post by SM

Post by Chris
Isn't the 8/8+ on your upgrade path rather than the X?

Just seems way too similar. It really is the 7S - if I'm changing, I'd
like to change for a reason.

Did you have a 6s before the 7 and if so was the 7 much of a upgrade?

Surprised by that. I went from a 4S to a 6, and while I didn't like the
size at first (too big) I've got on with it quite well. No complaints
about the build either - still looks pretty much as new.

What was a massive upgrade was going standard -> + model. Really didn't
notice any difference in cariability, and within hours (literally, not
days) the old phone felt small and a bit pokey. It's why I'm considering
the X even with some of my doubts - I've found that bigger screens are
what I like, so that's what I'm going for.

Not for me. Maybe I need to try one and see, but i don't fancy a phone
bigger than a 6. And nothing in the 8 I want, much less need.

One thing to note though - the TouchID sensor on the 7 range compared to
the 6. It is -vastly- better, and made Apple Pay viable for me. It's now
my primary way of paying for things.

Again, surprised - the 6 works well in use for me, and Apple Pay is
pretty slick. But my brand new iPad is very fussy - in a couple of
months I've had to reset touch ID three times. I'll take it back when I
have the energy.

--
Cheers, Rob

nospam

2017-09-17 10:00:22 UTC

Post by Ian McCall
One thing to note though - the TouchID sensor on the 7 range compared
to the 6. It is -vastly- better, and made Apple Pay viable for me. It's
now my primary way of paying for things.

the 6s and later have a 2nd gen touch id sensor which is much faster.

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2017-09-15 11:32:55 UTC

Post by Ian McCall
Control Centre now looks rubbish - swipe from the status indicators?
I'm left-handed and essentially never touch the phone with my right
hand unless typing. I would also now have to use two hands, one to hold
the phone and the other to reach up to the status bar. Torch is
something I use a fair amount,

I've been using iOS11 for a fair while, and you've got the wrong end of
a stick.

Control Centre is swipe *up* from the bottom, as before, and has the
torch near bottom left. With an added row of optional CC buttons I find
it easier to hit with the left thumb than it was previously.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
The physics and scientific approach of Armageddon was criticized for its
poor adherence to the laws of physics. This has led NASA to show the
film as part of its management training program. Prospective managers
are asked to find as many inaccuracies in the movie as they can.

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2017-09-15 12:55:06 UTC

On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:32:55 +0100, Jaimie Vandenbergh

I've been using iOS11 for a fair while, and you've got the wrong end of
a stick.
Control Centre is swipe *up* from the bottom, as before, and has the
torch near bottom left. With an added row of optional CC buttons I find
it easier to hit with the left thumb than it was previously.

, no need to go past the
first six seconds really.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
"I love the way that Microsoft follows standards.
In much the same manner as fish follow migrating caribou."
- Paul Tomblin, ASR

Ian McCall

2017-09-15 13:48:41 UTC

On 2017-09-15 12:55:06 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:32:55 +0100, Jaimie Vandenbergh

I've been using iOS11 for a fair while, and you've got the wrong end of
a stick.
Control Centre is swipe *up* from the bottom, as before, and has the
torch near bottom left. With an added row of optional CC buttons I find
it easier to hit with the left thumb than it was previously.

http://youtu.be/Y5UMxibrv1k , no need to go past the
first six seconds really.
Cheers - Jaimie

That's on the 8. Not the X:

Cheers,
Ian

--
Check out Proto the album: <http://studioicm.com/proto/>

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2017-09-15 13:57:28 UTC

Post by Ian McCall
On 2017-09-15 12:55:06 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
On Fri, 15 Sep 2017 12:32:55 +0100, Jaimie Vandenbergh

I've been using iOS11 for a fair while, and you've got the wrong end of
a stick.
Control Centre is swipe *up* from the bottom, as before, and has the
torch near bottom left. With an added row of optional CC buttons I find
it easier to hit with the left thumb than it was previously.

http://youtu.be/Y5UMxibrv1k , no need to go past the
first six seconds really.
Cheers - Jaimie

http://youtu.be/jt2OHQh0HoQ

Ah! Shows how much I'm caring about the X, I suppose.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
If you haven't got time to RTFM, you haven't got time to whine about it.

Ian McCall

2017-09-15 14:10:45 UTC

On 2017-09-15 13:57:28 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Ian McCall
On 2017-09-15 12:55:06 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh
http://youtu.be/Y5UMxibrv1k , no need to go past the

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
first six seconds really.
Cheers - Jaimie

http://youtu.be/jt2OHQh0HoQ

Ah! Shows how much I'm caring about the X, I suppose.

Mind you, I hadn't realised that we're now going to move to
model-specific gestures. That's not a great idea.

Cheers,
Ian

--
Check out Proto the album: <http://studioicm.com/proto/>

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2017-09-15 15:08:42 UTC

Post by Ian McCall
On 2017-09-15 13:57:28 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh

Post by Ian McCall
On 2017-09-15 12:55:06 +0000, Jaimie Vandenbergh
http://youtu.be/Y5UMxibrv1k , no need to go past the

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
first six seconds really.
Cheers - Jaimie

http://youtu.be/jt2OHQh0HoQ

Ah! Shows how much I'm caring about the X, I suppose.

Mind you, I hadn't realised that we're now going to move to
model-specific gestures. That's not a great idea.

The iPad in iOS11 uses the same swipe-up as the iPhones-not-X, so it's
just the X that's the outlier. I shan't need to worry about dealing with
that for a year or two at the least.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
Once I drove so fast that my friend, who was pregnant, started having
Lorentz contractions.

"Ahah," you might ask, "but how far apart were they?" - Adam Fineman, rgrn

Steve H

2017-09-16 18:51:10 UTC

Post by Ian McCall
I think I'd be sticking with my
7+ and waiting for the next gen.

I'm thinking that with my 6+ too.

Wish I'd had the foresight to put a glass screen protector on it from
new, though, as I've scratched it a bit which irritates me.

(The rest is immaculate as I keep it in a Tech 21 anti shock case)

--
Steve H

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2017-09-16 20:03:54 UTC

Post by Ian McCall
I think I'd be sticking with my
7+ and waiting for the next gen.

I'm thinking that with my 6+ too.
Wish I'd had the foresight to put a glass screen protector on it from
new, though, as I've scratched it a bit which irritates me.
(The rest is immaculate as I keep it in a Tech 21 anti shock case)

You could always spend a little of the £800+ you're saving on an Apple
screen repair. £130 or something? Aha -
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/iphone/repair/screen-damage

I'm in the same boat wrt upgrading, no reason to move off my 6s+, it's
plenty fast enough, 128gig, and the battery is still fine. Looks like
I'll go another year. Mine's barely scratched at all, though the
anti-fingerprint coating is far less effective than it used to be.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
"Jesus died for our sins. Let us not cheapen his
sacrifice by failing to commit any of them."

Steve H

2017-09-16 21:06:50 UTC

Post by Steve H
I'm thinking that with my 6+ too.
Wish I'd had the foresight to put a glass screen protector on it from
new, though, as I've scratched it a bit which irritates me.
(The rest is immaculate as I keep it in a Tech 21 anti shock case)

You could always spend a little of the £800+ you're saving on an Apple
screen repair. £130 or something? Aha -
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/iphone/repair/screen-damage

A bit more than £130... I'm a little reluctant, especially as I believe
they hand over a refurb phone when you do this. It's a thought,
though... but I may buy a glass screen protector and see what it's like
over the scratching.

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
I'm in the same boat wrt upgrading, no reason to move off my 6s+, it's
plenty fast enough, 128gig, and the battery is still fine. Looks like
I'll go another year. Mine's barely scratched at all, though the
anti-fingerprint coating is far less effective than it used to be.

The 6+ and 6S+ are probably all the phone you actually need. It's the
first time I've had an iPhone that isn't creaking under the demands of
new OS and software.

My work 5S is bloody awful, though - battery life is down to just a few
hours, if I actually make calls on it it will die in a lot less than
that.

--
Steve H

Jaimie Vandenbergh

2017-09-16 21:22:09 UTC

You could always spend a little of the £800+ you're saving on an Apple
screen repair. £130 or something? Aha -
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/iphone/repair/screen-damage

Oh, yeah - get a good one with nice schlorpy glue and that avoids the
whole issue. For £6. Much better plan.

Post by Steve H
My work 5S is bloody awful, though - battery life is down to just a few
hours, if I actually make calls on it it will die in a lot less than
that.

Same here, though I largely blame the awful Airwatch security/management
software, it thrashes battery.

Cheers - Jaimie

--
I'm required to make at least one grammatical, spelling or factual error per post.

Steve H

2017-09-16 21:25:59 UTC

Post by Steve H
My work 5S is bloody awful, though - battery life is down to just a few
hours, if I actually make calls on it it will die in a lot less than
that.

Same here, though I largely blame the awful Airwatch security/management
software, it thrashes battery.

Ahhh, that explains a lot - and I did suspect Airwatch was to blame!

This thing gets seriously hot, too, if you're charging and using at the
same time. Massive frustration, as we do so much via Skype for Business
- so I rely on a decent phone and data connection. We are working on
getting me a replacement - which is likely to be a 7. Wish they'd spec.
a plus model, though, even if it was a 6S+

--
Steve H

nospam

2017-09-16 21:30:26 UTC

Post by Steve H
My work 5S is bloody awful, though - battery life is down to just a few
hours, if I actually make calls on it it will die in a lot less than
that.

replace its battery or get a battery-case, such as a mophie.

Steve H

2017-09-16 21:34:25 UTC

Post by Steve H
My work 5S is bloody awful, though - battery life is down to just a few
hours, if I actually make calls on it it will die in a lot less than
that.

replace its battery or get a battery-case, such as a mophie.

Yes, done that. All it does is extend life to maybe 4-5 hours, depending
on use. And makes the phone so hot I could fry bacon on it.

--
Steve H

nospam

2017-09-16 21:59:14 UTC

Post by Steve H
My work 5S is bloody awful, though - battery life is down to just a few
hours, if I actually make calls on it it will die in a lot less than
that.

replace its battery or get a battery-case, such as a mophie.

Yes, done that. All it does is extend life to maybe 4-5 hours, depending
on use. And makes the phone so hot I could fry bacon on it.

nowhere near as well as a samsung galaxy note 7, which can cook it on
an open flame :)

Graeme Wall

2017-09-17 08:10:55 UTC

You could always spend a little of the £800+ you're saving on an Apple
screen repair. £130 or something? Aha -
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/iphone/repair/screen-damage

Try Timpsons perhaps?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

2017-09-17 09:05:18 UTC

Post by Steve H
A bit more than £130... I'm a little reluctant, especially as I believe
they hand over a refurb phone when you do this. It's a thought,
though... but I may buy a glass screen protector and see what it's like
over the scratching.

I had a 6S+ screen replaced in an Apple Store - it took a couple of
hours and I got my own phone back.

Stuart

--
cut that out to reply

Ian McCall

2017-09-17 09:24:19 UTC

I had 4S repaired at Timpsons for about £60 I think. Good repair, no
problems, done in an hour, TouchID still working afterwards.

Cheers,
Ian

RJH

2017-09-17 09:49:18 UTC

I had 4S repaired at Timpsons for about £60 I think. Good repair, no
problems, done in an hour, TouchID still working afterwards.

5S?! The 4S didn't have Touch ID - at least mine didn't - I hope :-)

--
Cheers, Rob

nospam

2017-09-17 10:00:23 UTC

Post by Ian McCall
I had 4S repaired at Timpsons for about £60 I think. Good repair, no
problems, done in an hour, TouchID still working afterwards.

there is no touchid on a 4s.

2017-09-17 09:05:18 UTC

Post by Steve H
Wish I'd had the foresight to put a glass screen protector on it from
new, though, as I've scratched it a bit which irritates me.
(The rest is immaculate as I keep it in a Tech 21 anti shock case)

I felt the same about my scratched 6S+ screen.

Post by Jaimie Vandenbergh
You could always spend a little of the £800+ you're saving on an Apple
screen repair. £130 or something? Aha -
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/iphone/repair/screen-damage

Got mine fixed under AppleCare for £25 after a bit of juggling left the
screen shattered.

Stuart

--
cut that out to reply

Steve H

2017-09-17 10:21:59 UTC

Post by SM
Got mine fixed under AppleCare for £25 after a bit of juggling left the
screen shattered.

I never take Applecare as my mobile devices are covered via my bank
account.

I'll see what iOS11 does to the 6+, if it's still very usable, then I'll
look at my options to bring it back to 'as new' condition again.

--
Steve H

Basil Jet

2017-09-14 14:06:16 UTC

Post by Ray
As there is no mention of it in here this morning I presume you were all less
than enthused by the presentation?

All prices seem to have disappeared from the Apple website.
Is it a case of "If you have to ask, you can't afford it"?

Paul Sture

2017-09-14 15:55:29 UTC

Post by Basil Jet

Post by Ray
As there is no mention of it in here this morning I presume you were all less
than enthused by the presentation?

All prices seem to have disappeared from the Apple website.
Is it a case of "If you have to ask, you can't afford it"?

So they have. I found buttons marked "Model Pricing" but they
didn't really go anywhere.

Also found while browsing apple.com:

<https://www.apple.com/macos/high-sierra/>

High Sierra "Available 9.25", by which I assume they mean
25th September 2017.

--
Everybody has a testing environment. Some people are lucky enough to
have a totally separate environment to run production in.

Paul Sture

2017-09-14 17:07:11 UTC