Almonds an excellent choice

[Quentin Grady]

G'day G'day Folks,

One of the big decisions for me when first diagnosed was which nuts
to include my diet. There is plenty of epidemiology suggesting nut
consumption has favourable outcomes. As it happened I chose almonds
as my staple item. They were high in mono-unsaturated fats and lower
in polyunsaturated fats that some others and high in Vit E. Perhaps
this was part of the reason they had a well founded reputation for
lasting qualities. They were good sources of arginine, magnesium and
fibre. For me, as is often the case, it wasn't an easy decision.
FRESH hazelnuts have exceptional qualities and walnuts properly kept
in the deep freeze were strong contenders. Whatever.

This research shows one can SUBSTITUTE some carb calories with almonds
to advantage.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/457588_print

You can read about the diet I used in my weight loss phase, some three
years ago when I lost 20 kg (44 lb) from the date of T2 diagnosis. I
am currently within half a kg of that figure three years on. I follow
a similar diet today.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin/quentins_diet.htm

Since I wrote out my dietary ideas for a friend I have had the
opportunity to learn more so I am tempted to update it. The friend
certainly learnt and modified the diet to suit herself. Five people
that I know of have used the similar diet, three of them T2 diabetics.
All have lost in excess of 17 kg (37 lb). The T2 diabetics all report
dramatic improvements in A1c and blood lipids.

Since I am about to revisit the diet I'd appreciate any reminders of
how my strategies may have change since I wrote those ideas out for a
friend.

Best wishes,

[Annette]

Post by Quentin Grady
G'day G'day Folks,
One of the big decisions for me when first diagnosed was which nuts
to include my diet. There is plenty of epidemiology suggesting nut
consumption has favourable outcomes. As it happened I chose

almonds

Post by Quentin Grady
as my staple item. They were high in mono-unsaturated fats and lower
in polyunsaturated fats that some others and high in Vit E.

Perhaps

Post by Quentin Grady
this was part of the reason they had a well founded reputation for
lasting qualities. They were good sources of arginine, magnesium and
fibre. For me, as is often the case, it wasn't an easy decision.
FRESH hazelnuts have exceptional qualities and walnuts properly kept
in the deep freeze were strong contenders. Whatever.
This research shows one can SUBSTITUTE some carb calories with

almonds

Post by Quentin Grady
to advantage.
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/457588_print
You can read about the diet I used in my weight loss phase, some three
years ago when I lost 20 kg (44 lb) from the date of T2 diagnosis.

I

Post by Quentin Grady
am currently within half a kg of that figure three years on. I

follow

Post by Quentin Grady
a similar diet today.
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin/quentins_diet.htm
Since I wrote out my dietary ideas for a friend I have had the
opportunity to learn more so I am tempted to update it. The

friend

Post by Quentin Grady
certainly learnt and modified the diet to suit herself. Five

people

Post by Quentin Grady
that I know of have used the similar diet, three of them T2

diabetics.

Post by Quentin Grady
All have lost in excess of 17 kg (37 lb). The T2 diabetics all report
dramatic improvements in A1c and blood lipids.
Since I am about to revisit the diet I'd appreciate any reminders of
how my strategies may have change since I wrote those ideas out for a
friend.
Best wishes,
--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
New Zealand, >#,#< [
/ \ /\
"... and the blind dog was leading."
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Hi there Quentin,

I found reading your diet interesting. It isn't very different from
my own. Mine would look a bit different, but only in detail, not in
principle. I suspect your ideas have strongly infuenced my choices,
and that's got to be good.

One of the main differences is that I eat less bread than you do.
The carbs in them, even in the whole grain stuff, still trouble me
by raising my bg to an unacceptable level. Then again, I no longer
take any oral meds.
I have some good reasons, but that's another story.

Probably the other main difference is that although I eat nuts, (and
mostly almonds), I don't consume as much as you do. I also eat
macamia nuts. Perhaps I should up my intake? Something for me to
think about.

I noticed ( by it's absence), that you do not appear to eat
tomatoes. Except for one mention of a little tomato sauce. Has
that changed, or is it not something you care for, and if so, why
not?

OTOH, you do consume a fair amount of milk (mostly as yoghurt). For
some reason, I find that berries and plain milk yoghurt seem to have
been made for each other. Yet not so many years ago, I wouldn't
touch the stuff. All I could taste (and smell), was sour milk!
Then one day I realised that if I added some acidic fruit (like
strawberries), I could tell myself it was the fruit that was adding
the "sourness", and before I knew it, I began to love the stuff. I
still don't think I could eat it plain, however. Still, I have
since found lots of ways to incorporate it into different dishes. I
use it instead of coconut milk in curries and satays etc, and mixed
with flaxseed oil and wine vinegar as a mayonaise/dressing on green
salads.

Speaking of milk, there's been something I was going to ask you
about. I currently buy lactose free milk for my cat. I buy the one
for human consumption, because it's only half the price of the one
they sell for cats. Would it be a good idea to switch to it from
normal milk, for my own use, since the lactose is the sugar
component of milk? Also, would I be able to make yoghurt with it,
or is the lactose needed by the acidophilus?

Thanks for sharing.

Annette



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[Quentin Grady]

This post not CC'd by email

Post by Annette
Hi there Quentin,
I found reading your diet interesting. It isn't very different from
my own. Mine would look a bit different, but only in detail, not in
principle. I suspect your ideas have strongly infuenced my choices,
and that's got to be good.

G'day G'day Annette,

And I in turn was influenced by the success of others. Whenever
someone turned up on internet who was successful I became utterly
fascinated with what they were doing. Now it became pretty clear
early on that they weren't always aware of why they were successful
... some of the best clues seemed almost inconsequential to them.
They did however provide the stimulus for research.

Post by Annette
One of the main differences is that I eat less bread than you do.
The carbs in them, even in the whole grain stuff, still trouble me
by raising my bg to an unacceptable level. Then again, I no longer
take any oral meds.

When I was losing weight fast I ate almost no bread.
Today I am celebrating. I have regained my 20 kg weightloss status.
The strangest thing is I am not at all sure what is the key to my own
success.

Could it be the half a chicken I devoured for lunch yesterday?
Could it be the omelette I had for tea?
Could it be the ryvita crackers that I have suddenly taken a liking
to?
Could it be the tahini I spread liberally on the ryvita crackers.

Post by Annette
I have some good reasons, but that's another story.
Probably the other main difference is that although I eat nuts, (and
mostly almonds), I don't consume as much as you do.

At the moment I consume them ad libertum throughout the day.
I am not a weights and measures person preferring to devote my
thoughts to finding healthy foods.

Post by Annette
I also eat macadamia nuts. Perhaps I should up my intake? Something for me to
think about.

Well remember the isenergetic provision.

Or the Texas millionaire's strategy.

What do you want?
What do you need to achieve that?
What are you prepared to SACRIFICE?

It is all horse trading. Smart people trade up.

When I first adopted almonds as a staple I was out there ahead of the
research, staking my health on what ought to be the case. My basic
tool was the rule of three. To be included as a staple, a food had to
have at least three compelling reasons to be included. If one
accepted single criteria for inclusion then one simply ate too much.

Post by Annette
I noticed ( by it's absence), that you do not appear to eat
tomatoes. Except for one mention of a little tomato sauce. Has
that changed, or is it not something you care for, and if so, why
not?

Thanks. That is the sort of comment that is most helpful. It may
well have been a seasonal factor. Put simply I probably wrote my
dietary ideas when tomatoes weren't in season. When they are in
season I buy 5 kg bags of seconds.

Post by Annette
OTOH, you do consume a fair amount of milk (mostly as yoghurt). For
some reason, I find that berries and plain milk yoghurt seem to have
been made for each other. Yet not so many years ago, I wouldn't
touch the stuff. All I could taste (and smell), was sour milk!
Then one day I realised that if I added some acidic fruit (like
strawberries), I could tell myself it was the fruit that was adding
the "sourness", and before I knew it, I began to love the stuff.

Now that is fascinating. Taste preferences can be re-educated.
Some of the berries I eat are quite sweet, some more tart. The berry
growers visibly winch when I tell them I eat some of their
blackberries sold for tart making raw.

Post by Annette
I
still don't think I could eat it plain, however. Still, I have
since found lots of ways to incorporate it into different dishes. I
use it instead of coconut milk in curries and satays etc, and mixed
with flaxseed oil and wine vinegar as a mayonaise/dressing on green
salads.
Speaking of milk, there's been something I was going to ask you
about. I currently buy lactose free milk for my cat. I buy the one
for human consumption, because it's only half the price of the one
they sell for cats. Would it be a good idea to switch to it from
normal milk, for my own use, since the lactose is the sugar
component of milk?

I buy Sun Latte, a low lactose milk.

Post by Annette
Also, would I be able to make yoghurt with it,
or is the lactose needed by the acidophilus?

The acidophilus need the lactose to make lactic acid.

Post by Annette
Thanks for sharing.
Annette

[Annette]

Post by Quentin Grady
This post not CC'd by email
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:05:04 +1000, "Annette"

Post by Annette
Hi there Quentin,
I found reading your diet interesting. It isn't very different from
my own. Mine would look a bit different, but only in detail, not in
principle. I suspect your ideas have strongly infuenced my

choices,

Post by Quentin Grady

Post by Annette
and that's got to be good.

G'day G'day Annette,
And I in turn was influenced by the success of others. Whenever
someone turned up on internet who was successful I became utterly
fascinated with what they were doing. Now it became pretty clear
early on that they weren't always aware of why they were

successful

Post by Quentin Grady
... some of the best clues seemed almost inconsequential to them.
They did however provide the stimulus for research.

Post by Annette
One of the main differences is that I eat less bread than you do.
The carbs in them, even in the whole grain stuff, still trouble me
by raising my bg to an unacceptable level. Then again, I no

longer

Post by Quentin Grady

Post by Annette
take any oral meds.

When I was losing weight fast I ate almost no bread.
Today I am celebrating. I have regained my 20 kg weightloss

status.

Congratulations. It surely is something to celebrate.

Post by Quentin Grady
The strangest thing is I am not at all sure what is the key to my own
success.

Unsolved mysteries are what keeps us interested. Sometimes, though,
I wish there were a few less entering my life at the same time. At
least this one is a plus.

Post by Quentin Grady
Could it be the half a chicken I devoured for lunch yesterday?
Could it be the omelette I had for tea?
Could it be the ryvita crackers that I have suddenly taken a

liking

Post by Quentin Grady
to?
Could it be the tahini I spread liberally on the ryvita crackers.

Sounds like a very low carb, high protein and fats diet to me.

Post by Quentin Grady

Post by Annette
I have some good reasons, but that's another story.
Probably the other main difference is that although I eat nuts, (and
mostly almonds), I don't consume as much as you do.

At the moment I consume them ad libertum throughout the day.
I am not a weights and measures person preferring to devote my
thoughts to finding healthy foods.

Which is rather a surprising and unexpected approach for an
engineer. Old Al seems to be the opposite. You both are analytical
though. I wonder if the difference is due to the fact that you are
a T2, and he is T1? Needs direct the area of focus, and influence
priorities.

Post by Quentin Grady

Post by Annette
I also eat macadamia nuts. Perhaps I should up my intake?

Something for me to

Post by Quentin Grady

Post by Annette
think about.

Well remember the isenergetic provision.
Or the Texas millionaire's strategy.
What do you want?
What do you need to achieve that?
What are you prepared to SACRIFICE?
It is all horse trading. Smart people trade up.

Agreed. I didn't know that is what I am doing. I really appreciate
your defining of the underlying principles involved. Principles
outdo procedures and "rules" hands down, in my opinion. Sincere
thanks.

Post by Quentin Grady
When I first adopted almonds as a staple I was out there ahead of the
research, staking my health on what ought to be the case. My

basic

Post by Quentin Grady
tool was the rule of three. To be included as a staple, a food had to
have at least three compelling reasons to be included. If one
accepted single criteria for inclusion then one simply ate too

much.
A most interesting approach. I'll be re-examining my current diet
now. You omitted the negative factor. Sometimes one important
negative can outweigh a plethora of positives. That's why we say
YMMV.
Horses for courses. eg You eat mandarin skins. My body simply
refuses to tolerate the citrus family.

Post by Quentin Grady

Post by Annette
I noticed ( by it's absence), that you do not appear to eat
tomatoes. Except for one mention of a little tomato sauce. Has
that changed, or is it not something you care for, and if so, why
not?

Thanks. That is the sort of comment that is most helpful. It may
well have been a seasonal factor. Put simply I probably wrote my
dietary ideas when tomatoes weren't in season. When they are in
season I buy 5 kg bags of seconds.

I guess I noticed that one because tomatoes are one of my staples.
They are a major source of Vit C in my diet. By your measure of 3
compelling reasons to include them, they rate a 3+ for me, despite
the carbs.

Post by Quentin Grady

Post by Annette
OTOH, you do consume a fair amount of milk (mostly as yoghurt).

For

Post by Quentin Grady

Post by Annette
some reason, I find that berries and plain milk yoghurt seem to have
been made for each other. Yet not so many years ago, I wouldn't
touch the stuff. All I could taste (and smell), was sour milk!
Then one day I realised that if I added some acidic fruit (like
strawberries), I could tell myself it was the fruit that was

adding

Post by Quentin Grady

Post by Annette
the "sourness", and before I knew it, I began to love the stuff.

Now that is fascinating. Taste preferences can be re-educated.

It all happened in my head. Our preconceptions are all part of it.
One notices it particularly with children. Call a food by a
different name, and they'll happily eat something they would
otherwise insist is something they claim to detest. Heh, I just did
it to myself in the same way.

Post by Quentin Grady
Some of the berries I eat are quite sweet, some more tart. The berry
growers visibly winch when I tell them I eat some of their
blackberries sold for tart making raw.

I used to buy pecans just to munch plain. This seemed to upset a lot
of people, and I encountered some who reckoned it was such a waste -
pecans are for making sweet desserts in their minds. So are
berries, I guess. It's all preconceptions again. Wild blackberries
are becoming scarce, since it's recognition as a noxious weed, and
eradication measures came into place. They spray them with a nasty
toxin, and one no longer dare pick the few roadside ones remaining.
All to the good, but I miss them. As a child we used to go
blackberry picking in the summer, and eat as much as we took home!

Post by Quentin Grady

Post by Annette
Speaking of milk, there's been something I was going to ask you
about. I currently buy lactose free milk for my cat. I buy the one
for human consumption, because it's only half the price of the one
they sell for cats. Would it be a good idea to switch to it from
normal milk, for my own use, since the lactose is the sugar
component of milk?

I buy Sun Latte, a low lactose milk.

Liddell's make it here. According to the label, it's all done with
a special enzyme. One wonders if it has any other advantages when
consumed. Looks like another tweak coming up in my diet. I am
wondering how it tastes, too.

Often the cat will let it "go off" before eating it. A kind of
primitive yoghurt perhaps? He is VERY lacose intollerent.

Post by Quentin Grady

Post by Annette
Also, would I be able to make yoghurt with it,
or is the lactose needed by the acidophilus?

The acidophilus need the lactose to make lactic acid.

That's what I supected. Thanks.

Here's another query. You are a strong advocate for avocados. I
like them, but they always make me feel queasy after eating even a
half of one. I don't know why. Any thoughts about this? I tolerate
most other fats and oils quite well. I have a bottle of cold
pressed avocado oil in the fridg. It seems a pity though that I
can't eat them very much.

Annette, the intrepid adventurer.
Or is that amateur experimenter?
:-)



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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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[Quentin Grady]

This post not CC'd by email

Post by Annette

Post by Quentin Grady
When I was losing weight fast I ate almost no bread.
Today I am celebrating. I have regained my 20 kg weightloss
status.

Congratulations. It surely is something to celebrate.

G'day G'day Annette,

It sure is. I went for a long time not losing weight. The
measurements at the gym showed I had drop a quarter of my body fat
percentage by going to the gym but not significant weight loss ...
then suddenly I started shedding weight rapidly. Kinda took me by
surprise.

Best wishes,

[Quentin Grady]

This post not CC'd by email

Post by Annette

Post by Quentin Grady
The strangest thing is I am not at all sure what is the key to my
own success.

Unsolved mysteries are what keeps us interested. Sometimes, though,
I wish there were a few less entering my life at the same time. At
least this one is a plus.

G'day G'day Annette,

True enough. The good news is you solved one mystery all through
your own internet research. The reason found for not taking
glucosamine seemed pretty compelling. My guess is methyl sulphonyl
methane commonly sold as MSM is a much safer choice for dealing with
stiffness. It was a decision I made a year or so ago but I didn't have
as compelling as evidence as you uncovered.

Best wishes,

[Quentin Grady]

This post not CC'd by email

Post by Annette

Post by Quentin Grady
Could it be the half a chicken I devoured for lunch yesterday?
Could it be the omelette I had for tea?
Could it be the ryvita crackers that I have suddenly taken a
liking to?
Could it be the tahini I spread liberally on the ryvita crackers.

Sounds like a very low carb, high protein and fats diet to me.

G'day G'day Annette,

I'm sure that is most of it. There are however a few interesting
wrinkles. Tahini is made from sesame which contain linoleic acid, LA
(the simplest omega-6 fatty acid). With some crucial enzymes
functioning this can be turned into GLA (of evening primrose, borage,
blackcurrent seed oil fame) GLA is wonderful in that it is an omega-6
that is anti-inflammatory. The catch is it can be converted to
arachidonic acid AA which is pro-inflammatory. Now here is where the
surprise wrinkle occurs. Sesamin in sesame products like tahini
partially inhibits that conversion.

Best wishes,

["Wendy Baker"]

Annette <***@bigpond.com> wrote:
: pecans are for making sweet desserts in their minds. So are
: berries, I guess. It's all preconceptions again. Wild blackberries
: are becoming scarce, since it's recognition as a noxious weed, and
: eradication measures came into place. They spray them with a nasty
: toxin, and one no longer dare pick the few roadside ones remaining.
: All to the good, but I miss them. As a child we used to go
: blackberry picking in the summer, and eat as much as we took home!

This news about your blackberries surprised me, as we have plenty of them
growing wild here in upstate New York State where I summer. We have some
on our own property and I happily, if carefully gather them in high summer
and put them up as no sugar added jam and frozen for winter use in
artificially sweetened sorbets, etc. The only problem with them is the
seeds in the teeth.

Wendy Baker

[JHEM]

Post by "Wendy Baker"

Post by Annette
pecans are for making sweet desserts in their minds. So are
berries, I guess. It's all preconceptions again. Wild blackberries
are becoming scarce, since it's recognition as a noxious weed, and
eradication measures came into place. They spray them with a nasty
toxin, and one no longer dare pick the few roadside ones remaining.
All to the good, but I miss them. As a child we used to go
blackberry picking in the summer, and eat as much as we took home!

This news about your blackberries surprised me, as we have plenty of
them growing wild here in upstate New York State where I summer. We
have some on our own property and I happily, if carefully gather them
in high summer and put them up as no sugar added jam and frozen for
winter use in artificially sweetened sorbets, etc. The only problem
with them is the seeds in the teeth.

I'm pretty sure that blackberries are an introduced species into OZ and NZ.

Both countries are spending enormous amounts of money attempting to
eliminate/control introduced plant and animal species that are wreaking
havoc with the native flora and fauna.

In OZ in particular red foxes and feral cats, both introduced species, have
brought many native snakes, marsupials and birds to the brink of extinction.
Not to mention cane toads, which are uncontrollable and lethal when
consumed.

Regards,

James the Elder

[Quentin Grady]

This post not CC'd by email
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:05:10 GMT, "JHEM"

Post by JHEM
I'm pretty sure that blackberries are an introduced species into OZ and NZ.
Both countries are spending enormous amounts of money attempting to
eliminate/control introduced plant and animal species that are wreaking
havoc with the native flora and fauna.
In OZ in particular red foxes and feral cats, both introduced species, have
brought many native snakes, marsupials and birds to the brink of extinction.
Not to mention cane toads, which are uncontrollable and lethal when
consumed.
Regards,
James the Elder

G'day G'day James,

Very perceptive James. Fortunately NZ doesn't have any snakes to
become extinct and no one introduced red foxes or snakes or cane
toads. Feral cats, stoats etc do huge damage to native bird life.
One of our biggest pests is the possum. Nah it is not the American
Opossum. This one multiplies rapidly and destroys the regeneration
the bush and starve the native birds. I am only taking the time and
opportunity to mention it because with some eighty million of the
destruct pests to be gotten rid it is important that people understand
why we view them like rats and not something to be conserved. If ever
there was a time when wearing fur was politically correct, this is it.

Best wishes,

[JHEM]

Post by Quentin Grady
G'day G'day James,

G'day Quentin.

Post by Quentin Grady
Very perceptive James. Fortunately NZ doesn't have any snakes to
become extinct and no one introduced red foxes or snakes or cane
toads.

Snakes may be on the menu soon if they continue to find stowaway brown tree
snakes at the airports! NZ could wind up like Guam
http://www.cnn.com/EARTH/9611/09/guam.snakes/

Post by Quentin Grady
Feral cats, stoats etc do huge damage to native bird life.
One of our biggest pests is the possum. Nah it is not the American
Opossum. This one multiplies rapidly and destroys the regeneration
the bush and starve the native birds. I am only taking the time and
opportunity to mention it because with some eighty million of the
destruct pests to be gotten rid it is important that people understand
why we view them like rats and not something to be conserved. If ever
there was a time when wearing fur was politically correct, this is it.

Yep, same with feral cats, they all need to be made into doorstops. How does
one do that, you ask? Put a brick in them!

Ringa pakia
Uma tiraha
Turi whatia
Hope whai ake
Waewae takahia kia kino

Regards,

James the Elder

["Wendy Baker"]

Quentin Grady <***@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
: This post not CC'd by email
: On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:05:10 GMT, "JHEM"
: <***@ESAD_SPAMMERS.thinkpads.com> wrote:

:>I'm pretty sure that blackberries are an introduced species into OZ and NZ.
:>
:>Both countries are spending enormous amounts of money attempting to
:>eliminate/control introduced plant and animal species that are wreaking
:>havoc with the native flora and fauna.
:>
:>In OZ in particular red foxes and feral cats, both introduced species, have
:>brought many native snakes, marsupials and birds to the brink of extinction.
:>Not to mention cane toads, which are uncontrollable and lethal when
:>consumed.
:>
:>Regards,
:>
:>James the Elder

: G'day G'day James,

: Very perceptive James. Fortunately NZ doesn't have any snakes to
: become extinct and no one introduced red foxes or snakes or cane
: toads. Feral cats, stoats etc do huge damage to native bird life.
: One of our biggest pests is the possum. Nah it is not the American
: Opossum. This one multiplies rapidly and destroys the regeneration
: the bush and starve the native birds. I am only taking the time and
: opportunity to mention it because with some eighty million of the
: destruct pests to be gotten rid it is important that people understand
: why we view them like rats and not something to be conserved. If ever
: there was a time when wearing fur was politically correct, this is it.

: Best wishes,

:
: --
: Quentin Grady ^ ^ /
: New Zealand, >#,#< [
: / \ /\
: "... and the blind dog was leading."

: http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

Is this possum a marsupial like the US ones? Does NZ have native
marsupials like OZ?

Wendy Baker

[Annette]

Post by Quentin Grady
This post not CC'd by email
On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 17:05:10 GMT, "JHEM"

Post by JHEM
I'm pretty sure that blackberries are an introduced species into OZ and NZ.
Both countries are spending enormous amounts of money attempting to
eliminate/control introduced plant and animal species that are wreaking
havoc with the native flora and fauna.
In OZ in particular red foxes and feral cats, both introduced

species, have

Post by Quentin Grady

Post by JHEM
brought many native snakes, marsupials and birds to the brink of extinction.
Not to mention cane toads, which are uncontrollable and lethal when
consumed.
Regards,
James the Elder

G'day G'day James,
Very perceptive James. Fortunately NZ doesn't have any snakes to
become extinct and no one introduced red foxes or snakes or cane
toads. Feral cats, stoats etc do huge damage to native bird life.

Hi there Quentin,

I thought that the worst is the rat. Aren't some threatened bird
species being moved to rat free island offshore?

Post by Quentin Grady
One of our biggest pests is the possum. Nah it is not the

American

Post by Quentin Grady
Opossum.

Oh yes, I know about that one. I think (ahem, cough cough) that it
originally was introduced from ummmm, Australia? A documentary on
NZ quarantine was also saying that red back spiders are now a real
threat as well, since they come in on all kinds of goods from our
fair country.

Post by Quentin Grady
This one multiplies rapidly and destroys the regeneration
the bush and starve the native birds. I am only taking the time and
opportunity to mention it because with some eighty million of the
destruct pests to be gotten rid it is important that people

understand

Post by Quentin Grady
why we view them like rats and not something to be conserved. If ever
there was a time when wearing fur was politically correct, this is it.

We used to eat the rabbits, as well as using the fur. Nice lean
white meat, low cholesterol! Didn't seem to make much difference.
If someone calls you a bunny in Oz, they don't mean you are cute and
cuddly. Have you tried possum meat? They seem to like it in the US!
Maybe there's a market there? :-D

Annette





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[Quentin Grady]

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Post by Annette
Hi there Quentin,
I thought that the worst is the rat. Aren't some threatened bird
species being moved to rat free island offshore?

G'day G'day Annette,

The only way to preserve the tuatara, think miniature dinosaur, is
to wipe out the rats on the islands where the odd tuatara are still
found. Where they have done that the populations of tuatara have
increasing. In some island though the bush rats are kind of special.
They are kiore, brought here by the Maori. They are quite different
from the common Norway rat and are not found in towns, sticking to the
bush. While rats don't seem like the subject of a desire for
conservation there is some controversy over these kiore.

Post by Annette

Post by Quentin Grady
One of our biggest pests is the possum. Nah it is not the

American Opossum.
Oh yes, I know about that one. I think (ahem, cough cough) that it
originally was introduced from ummmm, Australia?

I didn't like to mention.

Post by Annette
A documentary on
NZ quarantine was also saying that red back spiders are now a real
threat as well, since they come in on all kinds of goods from our
fair country.

NZ was an ark set adrift ions ago. Much of it flora and fauna are
unique. Try to imagine a land where the niche of large animals was
occupied by large flightless birds. Ostriches are much closer to what
should be here than sheep and cattle.

Best wishes,

["Wendy Baker"]

JHEM <***@esad_spammers.thinkpads.com> wrote:
: Wendy Baker <***@panix.com> wrote:
:> Annette <***@bigpond.com> wrote:
:>> pecans are for making sweet desserts in their minds. So are
:>> berries, I guess. It's all preconceptions again. Wild blackberries
:>> are becoming scarce, since it's recognition as a noxious weed, and
:>> eradication measures came into place. They spray them with a nasty
:>> toxin, and one no longer dare pick the few roadside ones remaining.
:>> All to the good, but I miss them. As a child we used to go
:>> blackberry picking in the summer, and eat as much as we took home!
:>
:> This news about your blackberries surprised me, as we have plenty of
:> them growing wild here in upstate New York State where I summer. We
:> have some on our own property and I happily, if carefully gather them
:> in high summer and put them up as no sugar added jam and frozen for
:> winter use in artificially sweetened sorbets, etc. The only problem
:> with them is the seeds in the teeth.

: I'm pretty sure that blackberries are an introduced species into OZ and NZ.

: Both countries are spending enormous amounts of money attempting to
: eliminate/control introduced plant and animal species that are wreaking
: havoc with the native flora and fauna.

: In OZ in particular red foxes and feral cats, both introduced species, have
: brought many native snakes, marsupials and birds to the brink of extinction.
: Not to mention cane toads, which are uncontrollable and lethal when
: consumed.

: Regards,

: James the Elder

Thanks for the information. I do remember about rabbits in OZ and then
mongooses* or some other animals being introduced to get rid of the
rabbits and then , etc, etc., etc. We have been having problems with
purple loosestrife here getting into ponds and lakes after being
introduced as a garden plant and slogging them up fiercely.

* This is the correct poural. I looked it up in the big Merriam Webster
dictionary when I was doing a project in the fourth grade, lo these many
years ago:-)

Wendy Baker

[Annette]

Post by JHEM

Post by "Wendy Baker"

Post by Annette
pecans are for making sweet desserts in their minds. So are
berries, I guess. It's all preconceptions again. Wild

blackberries

Post by JHEM

Post by "Wendy Baker"

Post by Annette
are becoming scarce, since it's recognition as a noxious weed, and
eradication measures came into place. They spray them with a nasty
toxin, and one no longer dare pick the few roadside ones

remaining.

Post by JHEM

Post by "Wendy Baker"

Post by Annette
All to the good, but I miss them. As a child we used to go
blackberry picking in the summer, and eat as much as we took home!

This news about your blackberries surprised me, as we have

plenty of

Post by JHEM

Post by "Wendy Baker"
them growing wild here in upstate New York State where I summer.

We

Post by JHEM

Post by "Wendy Baker"
have some on our own property and I happily, if carefully gather them
in high summer and put them up as no sugar added jam and frozen for
winter use in artificially sweetened sorbets, etc. The only

problem

Post by JHEM

Post by "Wendy Baker"
with them is the seeds in the teeth.

I'm pretty sure that blackberries are an introduced species into OZ and NZ.
Both countries are spending enormous amounts of money attempting to
eliminate/control introduced plant and animal species that are

wreaking

Post by JHEM
havoc with the native flora and fauna.
In OZ in particular red foxes and feral cats, both introduced

species, have

Post by JHEM
brought many native snakes, marsupials and birds to the brink of extinction.
Not to mention cane toads, which are uncontrollable and lethal

when

Post by JHEM
consumed.
Regards,
James the Elder

You forgot two of the worst, the rabbits and the prickly pear. It
does look like we've got the cactus beat, but the rabbits keeps
making a comeback. The cane toads are winning so far.

Annette



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[JHEM]

G'day Annette,

Post by Annette
You forgot two of the worst, the rabbits and the prickly pear. It
does look like we've got the cactus beat, but the rabbits keeps
making a comeback. The cane toads are winning so far.
Annette

I tend to err on the side of what I consider common knowledge, so I left out
the rabbits. But, I completely forgot about the prickly pear cactus, thanks
for the reminder.

I'm an environmental engineer and the cane toad problem is a common topic on
many of the NGs and mail lists I frequent.

Regards,

James the Elder

[Annette]

Post by "Wendy Baker"
: pecans are for making sweet desserts in their minds. So are
: berries, I guess. It's all preconceptions again. Wild

blackberries

Post by "Wendy Baker"
: are becoming scarce, since it's recognition as a noxious weed, and
: eradication measures came into place. They spray them with a nasty
: toxin, and one no longer dare pick the few roadside ones

remaining.

Post by "Wendy Baker"
: All to the good, but I miss them. As a child we used to go
: blackberry picking in the summer, and eat as much as we took

home!

Post by "Wendy Baker"
This news about your blackberries surprised me, as we have plenty of them
growing wild here in upstate New York State where I summer. We have some
on our own property and I happily, if carefully gather them in

high summer

Post by "Wendy Baker"
and put them up as no sugar added jam and frozen for winter use in
artificially sweetened sorbets, etc. The only problem with them is the
seeds in the teeth.
Wendy Baker

I live in Australia, Wendy. Like many introduced plants, they took
over the place.

Annette



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[Frank Roy]

Post by Annette
Then again, I no longer
take any oral meds.
I have some good reasons, but that's another story.

On another occasion you mentioned that you take alpha lipoic acid (ALA).
Since it is a prescription med in Germany, I sort of consider it a
medicine that gets by as an over the counter supplement. While it it is
an antioxidant that helps to recycle both water and oil based vitamins,
it also acts as an insulin mimic in a dose dependent fashion (high
enough level). ALA is also time dependent. I don't use a delayed release
version but take it four times a day (after meals [1,2,2] and at bedtime
[1]). Susan Fein doen't see the non-time release version helpful but it
is effective for me.

Both alpha lipoic acid and n-acetyl-L-cysteine are thiols. This article
is a good summary of thiols. The right side spanner offers a basic
outline of this article.
"Thiol redox cycles play central roles in the antioxidant defense
network. Both glutathione and lipoate redox cycles can be driven by
cellular-reducing equivalents to generate their respective reduced forms
(GSH and DHLA). The ability of lipoate to increase cell GSH is mediated
by the reduction of cystine to the GSH precursor cysteine by
dihydrolipoate. LA, lipoate; GSSG, oxidized glutathione; vit, vitamin.
For more details on antioxidant interaction ..." Source: Figure 1 Thiol
redox cycles - Thiol homeostasis and supplements in physical exercise
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/2/653S

In addition to regular vitamin C (which has a short life) which I take
at mealtimes, I recently started using ascorbyl palminate - a longer
lasting vitamin C - at bedtime. My fasting bg have gone down quite a
bit.
Since I haven't done this for very long, the jury is still out.

Ascorbyl palmitate is a little-known fat-soluble form of Ascorbic Acid,
or Vitamin C. Unlike Ascorbic Acid, which is water-soluble, it is able
to be stored in cell membranes until needed by the body. As a form of
Vitamin C, Ascorbyl Palmitate is an effective free radical-scavenging
antioxidant ...

The following are a shotgun of connections:
The Glucose/Insulin System and Vitamin C: Implications in
Insulin-Dependent Diabetes Mellitus
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/17/2/105

Increased Accumulation of the Glycoxidation Product
N-(carboxymethyl)lysine in Human Tissues in Diabetes
and Aging (There are lengthy citations using this article.)
http://www.jci.org/cgi/content/abstract/99/3/457

Obesity and Body Fat Distribution Induce Endothelial
Dysfunction by Oxidative Stress - Protective Effect of Vitamin C
http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/50/1/159

Aging: Is Oxidative Stress a Marker or Is It Causal?
http://www.ebmonline.org/cgi/content/full/222/3/293

"Diabetes provides a distinct model of chronic vascular disease in which
disordered glucose homeostasis triggers abnormalities eventuating in
dysfunction of virtually every organ, deriving, in part, from vascular
perturbation. Although superimposition of other risk factors, such as
hyperlipemia or hypertension, adds to the complex atherogenic milieu,
diabetes by itself is a
well-recognized independent cardiovascular risk factor.8 9 10 11 12 In
fact, up to 80% of deaths in patients with diabetes are closely
associated with vascular disease. The impact of diabetic complications
in economic terms is emphasized by the consumption by diabetic patients
of the largest share of the health care dollar in the United States
compared with any other single disease." Source: Activation of Receptor
for Advanced Glycation End Products - A Mechanism for Chronic Vascular
Dysfunction in Diabetic
Vasculopathy and Atherosclerosis
http://circres.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/84/5/489


Google group threads:
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=ascorbyl+palmitate&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3822DE4E.6D9F%40netcom.ca&rnum=1

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=38EE1518.F29B208F%40internet.look.ca&rnum=10

In the year 2000, Quentin had a query on this topic. Does ascorbyl
palmitate also require insulin
to enter cells? It doesn't appear that he received an answer to his
question.

An article that cites ascorbyl palmitate:
Oxidation of Free Fatty Acids in Low Density Lipoprotein by
15-Lipoxygenase Stimulates Nonenzymic,
alpha-Tocopherol-mediated Peroxidation of Cholesteryl Esters
http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/full/272/48/30067

Frank

[Quentin Grady]

This post not CC'd by email

Post by Frank Roy
In the year 2000, Quentin had a query on this topic. Does ascorbyl
palmitate also require insulin
to enter cells? It doesn't appear that he received an answer to his
question.

G'day G'day Annette,

At the time I was interested in finding a cheaper alternative to
high doses of alpha lipoic acid. Unfortunately scientists are adverse
to using cocktails of antioxidants eg Vit E, Vit C,ascorbyl palmitate,
CoQ10, alpha lipoic acid, milk thistle, turmeric. Since antioxidants
work more effectively in a network the idea has merit but is almost
impossible to study.

Best wishes,

[Annette]

Post by Frank Roy

Post by Annette
Then again, I no longer
take any oral meds.
I have some good reasons, but that's another story.

On another occasion you mentioned that you take alpha lipoic acid (ALA).
Since it is a prescription med in Germany, I sort of consider it a
medicine that gets by as an over the counter supplement. While it it is
an antioxidant that helps to recycle both water and oil based

vitamins,

Post by Frank Roy
it also acts as an insulin mimic in a dose dependent fashion (high
enough level). ALA is also time dependent. I don't use a delayed release
version but take it four times a day (after meals [1,2,2] and at bedtime
[1]). Susan Fein doen't see the non-time release version helpful but it
is effective for me.

Hi there Frank,

I no longer take the ALA supplement. There was only one brand on
the market here, and it was withdrawn in the PAL scandal. It simply
wasn't what the label purported it to be, being mostly composed of
soy oil inside that little gel capsule. The actual amount of ALA
was trivial. Sheesh, they were darn expensive too.

I have been searching for clues on the internet about the source of
ALA in natural substances. The suppliers of the supps must be
getting it from somewhere. It isn't a chemically manufactured item.
Surely they need a lot of it, if they are selling it in quantity?
It hasn't been easy. I've found a few clues. Firstly, plants are a
poor source. Some sites say there are NO good sources in food. But
then I found an odd site or two that had the following interesting
info. It is mainly found in the mytochondria of animals, and in
particular the cells of red muscle meat. Hearts are a very important
muscle, and are the best source of all.

Something to think about.

Annette
If God hadn't intended us to eat animals,
He wouldn't have made them out of MEAT! -
John Cleese



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[Frank Roy]

I have been searching for clues on the internet about the source of ALA in natural substances. The suppliers of the supps must be getting it from somewhere. It isn't a chemically manufactured item. Surely they need a lot of it, if they are selling it in quantity? It hasn't been easy. I've found a few clues. Firstly, plants are a poor source. Some sites say there are NO good sources in food. But then I found an odd site or two that had the following interesting info. It is mainly found in the mytochondria of animals, and in particular the cells of red muscle meat. Hearts are a very important muscle, and are the best source of all.

The following some excerpts that agree with what you have said above.

"The body needs alpha-lipoic acid to produce energy. The body actually
makes enough alpha-lipoic acid for these basic metabolic functions. This
compound acts as an antioxidant, however, only when there is an excess
of it and it is in the "free" state in the cells. But there is no free
alpha-lipoic acid circulating in your body, unless you consume
supplements or get it injected. Except for yeast and liver, foods
contain only tiny amounts of it. What makes alpha-lipoic acid so special
as an antioxidant is that it helps deactivate a wide array of fat- and
water-soluble free radicals in many bodily systems. In particular, it
may help protect the genetic material, DNA. It is also important because
it works closely with vitamins C and E and some other antioxidants,
"recycling" them and thus making them much more effective."
http://www.berkeleywellness.com/html/ds/dsAlphaLipoicAcid.php (This
article questions long term use of ALA.

"ALPHA-LIPOIC ACID: Lipoic Acid is an antioxidant that is especially
effective for the treatment of diabetic poly neuropathy - the nerve
degeneration that often accompanies diabetes - which causes pain,
tingling, and numbness in the hands and feet. Red and organ meats are
the richest dietary sources, but it is also found in carrots, yams,
beets, and spinach." Source:
http://www.drlam.com/A3R_brief_in_doc_format/Diabetes.cfm

"Good food sources of alpha-lipoic acid include spinach, broccoli, beef,
yeast, kidney, and heart."
http://www.alternativedr.com/conditions/ConsSupplements/AlphaLipoicAcidcs.html

"yeast (particularly Brewer's yeast)"
http://www.healthandage.com/html/res/com/ConsSupplements/AlphaLipoicAcidcs.html

"Alpha lipoic acid is a cofactor in the multienzyme complex that
catalyzes the last stage of the process called glycolysis.Glycolysis is
the first step in
converting blood sugar (glucose), which is obtained from carbohydrates
and proteins, into energy in a form that
the body can use.Although alpha lipoic acid is found in foods, such as
liver and yeast, there are no foods rich enough in alpha-lipoic acid to
serve as good sources."
http://www.nbizz.com/longevityclinic/listings/79.html

A thread on MHD newsgroup involving uses and types of alpha lipoic acid.
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Susan+Fein+alpha+lipoic+acid&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3E88FB8F.F45425AC%40erols.com&rnum=1

There are several medscape links mentioned in the above thread.

Frank

[Frank Roy]

Where DO they get the ALA to put in the pills?

I used Copernic phrase "synthesis of alpha lipoic acid" to begin the
probe.

The following article gives some explaination of how ALA is synthesized
naturally in the body. There are also some key phrases or words
thoughout the article.
"Clark: We believe it is synthesized from an eight-carbon carboxylic
acid called octanoic acid. It is also believed that the sulfur comes
from cysteine, a sulfur-containing amino acid, but the exact chemical
mechanism and the factors that control the synthesis are
not known yet." Source: Lipoic Acid Basics: An interview with Dr. Jim
Clark
http://www.immunalive.com/lipoic_acid_basics.html

http://uqbar.rockefeller.edu/~erik/ClustersWadsworth/u_clus6.1.0.0.html
http://biocyc.org:1555/new-image?type=GENE&object=EG11306
http://telethon.bio.unipd.it/GETMaps/muscle/Entries/Hs.53531.html

I then shifted to "chemical synthesis" + "alpha lipoic acid". Things
then become more complicated.

"Only the R-isomer of a-lipoic acid is synthesized naturally.
Conventional chemical synthesis of
a-lipoic acid results in a 50/50 (racemic) mixture of the two optical
isomers, R-a-lipoic acid and S-a-lipoic
acid. (1). In the text that follows, the term "a-lipoic acid" refers to
racemic a-lipoic acid, while "R-a-lipoic
acid" or "S-a-lipoic acid" refers to the specific isomer." (This article
is technical but much better than the more popular sort of articles.)
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/othernuts/la/la.html

"Bioavailability of R- and S- alpha-lipoic acid has extensively been
studied in humans using single dose administration. Generally, there was
no difference
between R- and S- alpha-lipoic acid concentrations in plasma after
intravenous administration. However, after oral intake of the combined
mixture, at least a 60%
higher response was found for R-lipoic acid than for the S-form."
http://www.integranutrition.com/lipoic.html
http://www.integranutrition.com/lipoic-acid-sheet.html

"Cameron and his team have explored ways to produce
the acid using metabolic engineering. The current chemical synthesis is
a five or six step synthesis that involves the resolution of a racemic
mixture at the end.
The lab took a microorganism like E. coli, fed it glucose and eventually
through over expression built strains of E. coli that can make elevated
levels of the desired compound." Source:
http://www.uiowa.edu/~biocat/nletterwinter03.pdf

esparma Successful with Alpha-Lipoic Acid -
Alpha lipoic acid (thioctic acid) has been licensed as a drug for the
treatment of diabetic polyneuropathy for about 10 years. One of the
largest suppliers is the
Magdeburg esparma company, a subsidiary
of AMINO GmbH."
http://www.aminoactives.com/pdf/vol2iss1JAN2002.pdf

Patent information:
http://164.195.100.11/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&RefSrch=yes&Query=PN%2F5691379

That's about as far as I could take it.

Frank

[Annette]

:-) I looked at the URI and wondered whether ALA
had something to do with nuts. So I surfed there,
and when I saw Linus Pauling's name on top, I wondered
whether the website was about a particular nut and
Pauling was classified as "another nut" :-)
(My mind works in strange ways sometimes.)
Anyway, I also noticed a picture of a tomato
in the upper left corner with the words
"Alpha-Lipoic Acid" across it. I wondered,
is it just decoration, or does a tomato have
a particular significance..... ?

Subject: A woman's random thoughts.

"My mind not only wanders, it sometime leaves completely."

Tomatoes
The love apple. Perhaps the one Eve gave Adam?
Hot tomato. A very tasty woman?
Face as red as a tomato. Married man found in compromising
situation with a tomato. See above.
Tomato plant family. All the FRUIT of other members of this group
(including the potato), are toxic. It was viewed as suspect for a
long time when first introduced into Europe from the americas.
You say toe-may-toe, I say toe-mar-toe, Boy that Fred Astaire could
dance! Ginger was a hot tomato.
Red tomatoes. Other colours are available, but not common - yellow,
orange, even black.
Tomatoes and ALA connection? No idea at all.

Annette
Nut joke.
Most road accidents are caused by a mechanical failure - the nut
that holds the wheel.



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[Wesley Groleau]

Post by Annette
Subject: A woman's random thoughts.

Well, I was going to make a comment about
a man's sequential thoughts, but I guess
mine are sometimes very random.

[Chris Hogg]

Quentin,

I seem to recall that you try to select olive oil that's the most
green-coloured. Now I may be wrong but I thought ripe olives were
yellow, and the oil they produced was golden. So what's your reason
for selecting green oil?

Incidentally, although my diet is probably higher in carbs than yours,
I found it very helpful and cherry-picked many ideas (e.g. nuts, I eat
a mix of walnuts, almonds and brazils), flax-meal (can't get that, but
I coffee-mill uncracked flax-seed, linseed in the UK, and have it
mixed with uncooked porridge oats and milk), and berries, especially
blackberries (we picked 45lbs last year, say 20kg, from the hedge-rows
around where we live, and we're only just coming to the end of them as
they freeze well). Also red and yellow peppers and onions or leeks
daily, as well as a variety of pulses (beans).

Many thanks for all of it.

[Quentin Grady]

This post not CC'd by email

Post by Annette
Quentin,
I seem to recall that you try to select olive oil that's the most
green-coloured. Now I may be wrong but I thought ripe olives were
yellow, and the oil they produced was golden. So what's your reason
for selecting green oil?

G'day G'day Chris,

Ripe olives grown here are black. The cold pressed oil is green.
I have often wondered why some extra virgin oils are more golden.
Put simply I don't know the general answer to your question.
My rule of thumb appears to work locally.

Post by Annette
Incidentally, although my diet is probably higher in carbs than yours,
I found it very helpful and cherry-picked many ideas (e.g. nuts, I eat
a mix of walnuts, almonds and brazils), flax-meal (can't get that, but
I coffee-mill uncracked flax-seed, linseed in the UK, and have it
mixed with uncooked porridge oats and milk), and berries, especially
blackberries (we picked 45lbs last year, say 20kg, from the hedge-rows
around where we live, and we're only just coming to the end of them as
they freeze well). Also red and yellow peppers and onions or leeks
daily, as well as a variety of pulses (beans).

Delighted to see you also enjoy a varied diet chock full of nutrients.

The one thing I could pay more attention to would be pulses or legumes
in general.

Post by Annette
Many thanks for all of it.