HOW I CAME TO ACC IN 2003

[Mark T]

In November 2003 David Matthieu posted a general request for help which
mentioned the name of my friend Woz who had been "moderated" on the
unmoderated ACC by Griz, Vera and their fundamentalist thugs. David
Matthieu spoke of the abuse and intimidation endured by my friend and fellow
CHRISTIAN ARTIST, Woz and many other Christians who were chased away from
ACC by Griz and Vera and their thugs. In 2003-2004 a number of Christians
of varying Christian traditions helped destroy the Griz cult (of which Vera
was a mjor member) to bring this NG back to its original intent - A FREE
UNMODERATED PUBLIC FORUM FOR ALL CHRISTIANS!! Though we were not an
homogenous group of Christians (we had various Christian belief from a wide
cross-section of Christianity) it was Christian unity against Griz, Vera and
their bully building team not cultish fundamentalist uniformity like Griz
and Vera demanded of others.

Rowland advised me against coming to ACC and told me it was a waste of my
time and talent. I ignored him. Gradually Rowland saw the benefit in
helping the Christians who had been abused by Griz and Vera and their thugs.
Rowland was joined later by Lawrence and Bradley (both from ARC where I had
been). After the destruction of the Griz cult Vera followed us to ARC.

Various members of the Griz cult used aliases ... including Vera. I was
warned about this (and their other intimidating tactics) in advance by a
number of their victims. I posted (annonymously) the testimony of one of
their victims who came to me for help.

All this may be verified by a simple Google search.

Anyone can discuss anything about Christian life on ACC (...and on any alt
newsgroup). It is NOT limited to ONLY fundamentalists, or ONLY evangelicals
or ONLY liberals. It is for ALL Christans. The point is then
to DISCUSS with these other Christians not to plonk them, chase them away or
tell lies and gossip about them.

ACC IS A PUBLIC UNMODERATED FORUM in the Alt NG hierarchy which according to
the FAQ for Alt NGs [ http://www.visi.com/~barr/alt-creation-guide.html]
....is a "refuge away from the control freaks, namespace purists and
net.cops ... that maintain and enforce the mainstream newsgroup guidelines."

ACC = alt.christian.christianlife which BY ITS TITLE is dedicated to
ANYTHING which comes up during CHRISTIAN LIFE.

ALL Christians from ALL denominations are welcome and NO Christian is banned
or censored at alt.christnet.christianlife. *[For a sample of the
many varying Christian denominations welcome at alt.christnet.christianlife
see Appendix A]

###################################################################

APPENDIX A:

List of Christian denominations ordered by historical and doctrinal
relationships.

This is not exhaustive but merely a sample.

Many of the Christians belonging to these churches are not considered "True
Christians" by Vera, Bob, Abby and Pedro and their thugs.


Orthodox Churches
a.. Eastern Orthodox Churches
a.. Albanian Orthodox Church
b.. Orthodox Church of Alexandria
c.. Orthodox Church in America
d.. Orthodox Church of Antioch
e.. Bulgarian Orthodox Church
f.. Chinese Orthodox Church
g.. Orthodox Church of Constantinople
h.. Cypriot Orthodox Church
i.. Czech and Slovak Orthodox Church
j.. Estonian Orthodox Church
k.. Orthodox Church of Finland
l.. Georgian Orthodox Church
m.. Church of Greece
n.. Japanese Orthodox Church
o.. Orthodox Church of Jerusalem
p.. Orthodox Church of Mount Sinai
q.. Polish Orthodox Church
r.. Romanian Orthodox Church
s.. Russian Orthodox Church
t.. Serb Orthodox Church
u.. Ukrainian Orthodox Church
a.. Oriental Orthodox Communion
a.. Armenian Apostolic Church
b.. Coptic Orthodox Church
c.. Ethiopian Orthodox Church
d.. Eritrean Orthodox Church
e.. Indian Orthodox Church ("Malankara Syrian")
f.. Syrian Orthodox Church ("Jacobite Syrian")
a.. Schismatic Orthodox Churches
a.. Belorussian Orthodox Church
b.. Church of the Genuine Orthodox Christians of Greece
c.. Macedonian Orthodox Church
d.. Old Believers
e.. Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia
f.. Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church
Celtic Christianity
a.. Celtic Catholic Church

Catholicism
a.. Roman Catholic Church
a.. Eastern Catholic Churches
a.. Armenian Catholic Church
b.. Chaldean Catholic Church
c.. Coptic Catholic Church
d.. Ethiopian Catholic Church
e.. Maronites
f.. Melkites
g.. Syrian Catholic Church
h.. Syro-Malabar Catholic Church
i.. Syro-Malankara Catholic Church
a.. American Catholic Church
a.. Catholic Apostolic Church
a.. Catholic Life Church
a.. Christ Catholic Church
a.. Liberal Catholic Church
a.. Mariavite Church
a.. Neouniate Church
a.. North American Old Catholic Church
a.. Old Catholic Church
a.. Palmarian Catholic Church
a.. Polish National Catholic Church
a.. Philippine Independent Church
a.. Uniate Church (Byzantine Church)
Nestorian Churches
a.. Assyrian Church of the East
Protestantism and descendant churches
a.. Early Protestants (before Luther)
a.. Hussites
b.. Lollards
c.. Waldensians
a.. Lutheran
a.. American Association of Lutheran Churches
b.. Apostolic Lutheran Church of America
c.. Association of Free Lutheran Congregations
d.. Church of Denmark
e.. Church of Estonia
f.. Church of Finland
g.. Church of Iceland
h.. Church of Norway
i.. Church of Sweden
j.. Church of the Lutheran Brethren of America
k.. Church of the Lutheran Confession
l.. Evangelical Covenant Church of America ("Swedish Evangelical Mission
Covenant")
m.. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
n.. Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada
o.. Evangelical Lutheran Church in South Africa
p.. Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvia
q.. Evangelical Lutheran Synod
r.. Laestadian Lutheran Church
s.. Latvian Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
t.. Lutheran Church of Australia
u.. Lutheran Church of New Zealand
v.. Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod
w.. Lutheran Church - Canada
x.. Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
y.. See also: United / Uniting churches

a.. Reformed and Presbyterian Churches
a.. Reformed churches
a.. Canadian and American Reformed Churches
a.. Christian Reformed Church in North America
b.. Church of Lippe
c.. Dutch Reformed Church
d.. Federation of Swiss Protestant Churches
a.. Free Reformed Churches of North America
a.. Heritage Reformed Congregations
a.. Hungarian Reformed Church in America
a.. Orthodox Christian Reformed Church
a.. Protestant Reformed Churches in America
a.. Reformed Christian Church in Croatia
a.. Reformed Church in America
b.. Reformed Church in Bavaria and Northwestern Germany
c.. Reformed Church in Hungary
a.. Reformed Church in the United States
a.. Reformed Church of Alsace and Lorraine
a.. Reformed Church of Japan
a.. Remonstrant Brotherhood
a.. United Reformed Church
b.. United Reformed Churches in North America
b.. Presbyterian
a.. Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
a.. Bible Presbyterian Church
a.. Church of Scotland
b.. Cumberland Presbyterian Church
c.. Evangelical Presbyterian Church
a.. Evangelical Presbyterian Church in England and Wales
a.. Free Church of Scotland
a.. Free Church of Scotland Continuing
a.. Free Presbyterian Church
a.. Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland
a.. Korean Presbyterian Church in America
a.. Orthodox Presbyterian Church
a.. Presbyterian Church in America
b.. Presbyterian Church in Ireland
a.. Presbyterian Church in Korea
a.. Presbyterian Church in the Republic of Korea
a.. Presbyterian Church of Aotearoa New Zealand
a.. Presbyterian Church of Australia
a.. Presbyterian Church of Canada
a.. Presbyterian Church of Korea
a.. Presbyterian Church of Wales
a.. Presbyterian Church USA
b.. Reformed Presbyterian Church - Covenanted
a.. Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland
a.. Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America
b.. United Free Church of Scotland
a.. Uniting Presbyterian Church in Southern Africa
c.. see also United / Uniting churches
a.. Plymouth Brethren
a.. Anabaptist
a.. Amish
a.. Beachy Amish
b.. Nebraska Amish
c.. Old Order Amish
d.. Swartzendruber Amish
b.. Hutterites
a.. Bruderhof Communities
c.. Mennonites
a.. Alliance of Mennonite Evangelical Congregations
a.. Anabaptist Association of Australia and New Zealand
a.. Brethren in Christ
a.. Canadian Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches
a.. Church of God in Christ, Mennonite (aka Holdeman Mennonites)
b.. Conservative Mennonite Conference
a.. Chortitzer Mennonite Conference
a.. Evangelical Mennonite Church
a.. Evangelical Mennonite Conference
a.. Evangelical Mennonite Mission Conference
a.. Japan Mennonite Brethren Conference
a.. Mennonite World Conference
a.. Mennonite Church Canada
a.. Mennonite Church in the Netherlands
a.. Mennonite Church USA
a.. Swiss Mennonite Conference
a.. US Conferences of Mennonite Brethren Churches
d.. Schwarzenau Brethren
a.. Church of the Brethren
b.. Conservative Grace Brethren Churches, International
c.. Dunkard Brethren
d.. Ephrata Cloister
e.. Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches
f.. Old German Baptist Brethren
g.. Old Order German Baptist Brethren
h.. The Brethren Church (Ashland Brethren)
a.. Baptist (All Baptist associations are congregationalist affiliations for
the purpose of cooperation, in which each local church is governmentally
independent)
a.. Alliance of Baptists
b.. American Baptist Association
c.. American Baptist Church
d.. American Baptist Convention
e.. Association of Baptist Churches in Ireland
f.. Association of Grace Baptist Churches
g.. Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America
h.. Association of Regular Baptist Churches
i.. Baptist Bible Fellowship International
j.. Baptist Conference of the Philippines
k.. Baptist Convention of Ontario and Quebec
l.. Baptist Convention of Western Cuba
m.. Baptist General Conference
n.. Baptist General Conference of Canada
o.. Baptist General Convention of Texas
p.. Baptist Missionary Association of America
q.. Baptist Union of Australia
r.. Baptist Union of Great Britain
s.. Baptist Union of New Zealand
t.. Baptist Union of Scotland
u.. Baptist Union of Western Canada
v.. Baptist World Alliance
w.. Bible Baptist
x.. Canadian Baptist Ministries
y.. Canadian Convention of Southern Baptists
z.. Central Baptist Association
aa.. Central Canada Baptist Conference
ab.. Christian Unity Baptist Association
ac.. Colored Primitive Baptists
ad.. Conservative Baptist Association
ae.. Conservative Baptist Association of America
af.. Conservative Baptists
ag.. Continental Baptist Churches
ah.. Convención Nacional Bautista de Mexico
ai.. Convention of Atlantic Baptist Churches
aj.. Cooperative Baptist Fellowship
ak.. European Baptist Convention
al.. European Baptist Federation
am.. Evangelical Baptist Mission of South Haiti
an.. Evangelical Free Baptist Church
ao.. Fellowship of Evangelical Baptist Churches in Canada
ap.. Free Will Baptist Church
aq.. Fundamental Baptist Fellowship of America
ar.. General Association of Baptists
as.. General Association of General Baptists
at.. General Association of Regular Baptist Churches
au.. General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc.
av.. General Six-Principle Baptists
aw.. Global Independent Baptist Fellowship
ax.. Grace Baptist Assembly
ay.. Independent Baptists
az.. Independent Baptist Church of America
ba.. Independent Baptist Fellowship International
bb.. Independent Baptist Fellowship of North America
bc.. Interstate & Foreign Landmark Missionary Baptist Association
bd.. Landmark Baptist Church
be.. Liberty Baptist Fellowship
bf.. Myanmar Baptist Convention
bg.. National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.
bh.. National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc.
bi.. National Baptist Evangelical Life and Soul Saving Assembly of the
U.S.A.
bj.. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
bk.. National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A.
bl.. New England Evangelical Baptist Fellowship
bm.. New Testament Association of Independent Baptist Churches
bn.. North American Baptist Conference
bo.. Northern Baptist Convention
bp.. Norwegian Baptist Union
bq.. Old Baptist Union
br.. Old Regular Baptists
bs.. Old Time Missionary Baptists
bt.. Primitive Baptists
bu.. Progressive Baptists
bv.. Progressive National Baptist Convention
bw.. Reformed Baptists
bx.. Regular Baptist Churches, General Association of
by.. Regular Baptists
bz.. Separate Baptists
ca.. Separate Baptists in Christ
cb.. Seventh Day Baptists
cc.. Southeast Conservative Baptists
cd.. Southern Baptist Convention
ce.. Southern Baptists of Texas
cf.. Sovereign Grace Baptists
cg.. Strict Baptists
ch.. Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists
ci.. Union D'Eglises Baptistes Francaises Au Canada
cj.. United American Free Will Baptist Church
ck.. United American Free Will Baptist Conference
cl.. United Baptist Convention of the Atlantic Provinces
cm.. United Baptists
cn.. United Free Will Baptist
co.. Unregistered Baptist Fellowship
cp.. World Baptist Alliance
cq.. World Baptist Fellowship
a.. See also List of Baptist sub-denominations
a.. Pentecostals
a.. Abundant Life Worship Centers
b.. Apostolic Assemblies of Christ
c.. Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus
d.. Apostolic Church of Pentecost of Canada
e.. Apostolic Faith Church
f.. Apostolic Overcoming Holy Church of God
g.. Assemblies of God
h.. Bible Way Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ
i.. Christ Gospel Churches International
j.. Christian Congregation of Brazil
k.. Church of God (Huntsville, Alabama)
l.. Church of God (Charleston, Tennessee)
m.. Church of God (Chattanooga)
n.. Church of God (Cleveland)
o.. Church of God by Faith
p.. Church of God in Christ
q.. Church of God Mountain Assembly
r.. Church of God of Prophecy
s.. Church of God with Signs Following
t.. Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith
u.. Congregational Holiness Church
v.. Elim Pentecostal Church
w.. Fire Baptized Holiness Church of God of the Americas
x.. God is Love Pentecostal Church
y.. Independent Assemblies of God, International
z.. International Church of the Foursquare Gospel
aa.. International Pentecostal Church of Christ
ab.. International Pentecostal Holiness Church
ac.. Open Bible Standard Churches (association of autonomous churches)
ad.. Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada
ae.. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World
af.. Pentecostal Church of God
ag.. Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church
ah.. Redeemed Christian Church of God
ai.. United Holy Church of America
aj.. United Pentecostal Church International
a.. African Independent Churches
a.. Church of the Lord
b.. Kimbanguist Church
c.. Zion Christian Church
a.. Messianic Judaism
a.. Chosen People Ministries
b.. Jews for Jesus
c.. Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations
a.. Misc. movement churches
a.. Calvary Chapel
b.. Vineyard Movement
c.. Church of Christ, Instrumental (aka Kelleyites)
a.. Other Pietists & Holiness
a.. Apostolic Christian Church
b.. Calvary Holiness Association
c.. Church of God (Anderson)
d.. Churches of God General Conference (Winebrenner)
e.. Holiness Baptist Association
f.. Moravians
a.. Methodists
a.. African Methodist Episcopal Church
b.. African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
c.. Bible Methodist Church
d.. British Methodist Episcopal Church
e.. Chinese Methodist Church
f.. Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
g.. Congregational Methodist Church
h.. Church of the Nazarene
i.. Evangelical Church
j.. Evangelical Methodist Church
k.. Free Methodist Church
l.. Fellowship of Independent Methodist Churches
m.. Fundamental Methodist Conference, Inc.
n.. Independent Methodist Church
o.. Korean Methodist Church
p.. Methodist Church, Hong Kong
q.. Methodist Church in Ireland
r.. Methodist Church in Singapore
s.. Methodist Church of Great Britain
t.. Methodist Church of New Zealand
u.. Methodist Church of South Africa
v.. Methodist Church of Sri Lanka
w.. Primitive Methodist Church
x.. Salvation Army
y.. United Methodist Church
z.. Wesleyan Church
aa.. Wesleyan Reform Union
ab.. See also: United / Uniting churches

=Anglicans
=
a.. Episcopal Church
a.. Anglican Communion
a.. Anglican Church in Aotearoa, New Zealand and Polynesia
a.. Anglican Church of Australia
a.. Anglican Church of Canada
a.. Anglican Church of Kenya
a.. Anglican Church of Korea
a.. Anglican Church of Papua New Guinea
a.. Church in Wales
b.. Church of England
c.. Church of Ireland
d.. Church of Nigeria
e.. Church of Uganda
a.. Church of the Province of Burundi
a.. Church of the Province of Central Africa
a.. Church of the Province of Melanesia
a.. Church of the Province of Myanmar
a.. Church of the Province of Rwanda
a.. Church of the Province of South East Asia
a.. Church of the Province of Southern Africa
a.. Church of the Province of Tanzania
a.. Church of the Province of the Indian Ocean
a.. Church of the Province of the West Indies
a.. Church of the Province of West Africa
a.. Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East
b.. Episcopal Church
c.. Episcopal Church of Cuba
a.. Episcopal Church of the Sudan
a.. Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui
a.. Iglesia Anglicana de la Region Central America
a.. Iglesia Anglicana de México
a.. Iglesia Anglicana del Cono Sud de las Americas
a.. Igreja Episcopal do Brasil
a.. Lusitanian Church of Portugal
a.. Nippon Sei Ko Kai (Japan)
b.. Philippine Episcopal Church
a.. Scottish Episcopal Church
b.. Spanish Reformed Episcopal Church
b.. Schismatic (or "continuing") Anglican Churches
a.. African Orthodox Church
a.. African Orthodox Church of the West
a.. African Orthodox Episcopal Church
a.. American Episcopal Church
a.. Anglican Mission in America
a.. Anglican Province of Christ the King
b.. Charismatic Episcopal Church
a.. Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches
a.. Free Church of England
b.. Free Protestant Episcopal Church
a.. Reformed Episcopal Church
a.. Southern Episcopal Church
="Quakers"
=
a.. Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
b.. United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing (Shakers)
=United / Uniting churches
=
a.. China Christian Council
b.. Church of Bangladesh
c.. Church of Pakistan
d.. Church of North India
e.. Church of South India
f.. Evangelical Church in Germany
g.. United Church of Canada
h.. United Church of Christ
i.. Uniting Church in Australia
Restorationism
a.. Restoration Movement (Stone-Campbell)
a.. Disciples of Christ
b.. Christian Church
c.. Churches of Christ
d.. International Churches of Christ (Boston Movement)
e.. See also: United / Uniting churches

a.. Millerite
a.. Sunday Adventists
a.. Advent Christian Church
a.. Church of God General Conference (Abrahamic Faith)
b.. Church of the Blessed Hope
a.. Primitive Advent Christian Church
b.. Seventh Day Adventists
a.. Branch Davidians
b.. Branch Seventh Day Adventists
a.. Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church
a.. Davidian Seventh-Day Adventist Association
a.. General Association of Davidian Seventh-Day Adventists
a.. People's Christian Church
a.. Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement
b.. Seventh-day Adventist General Conference (Seventh-day Adventist
Church)
c.. The Registry
c.. Church of God Adventists
a.. Assembly of God in Christ Jesus
a.. Associated Churches, Inc.
a.. Associates for Scriptural Knowledge
a.. Biblical Church of God
a.. Body of Christ Church of God
a.. Church of God (Anadarko)
b.. Church of God (Jesus Christ the Head) (UNICO)
c.. Church of God (O'Brien)
d.. Church of God (Philadelphia Era)
e.. Church of God (Sabbatarian)
f.. Church of God (Seventh Day, Salem, West Virginia)
g.. Church of God Evangelical Association
a.. Church of God's Truth
a.. Church of the Great God
a.. Congregation of God, Seventh Day
a.. Congregation of God
a.. Congregation of Yah
a.. Foundation for Biblical Research
a.. Foundation of Life Fellowship
a.. General Conference of the Church of God (Seventh-Day)
b.. General Council of the Churches of God
a.. Global Church of God
a.. Harmony of Life Fellowship
a.. International Church of God (ICG)
b.. Philadelphia Church of God
a.. Restoration Church of God
a.. Seventh-Day Church of God
a.. The Eternal Church of God
a.. The Pure Truth
a.. Triumph Prophetic Ministries (Church of God)
b.. Twentieth Century Church of God (Pennsylvania)
c.. Twentieth Century Church of God
a.. United Biblical Church of God
a.. United Church of God
a.. United Seventh-Day Brethren
a.. Universal Church of God
a.. World Insight International
a.. Worldwide Church of God
d.. Bible Student Groups
a.. Back to the Bible Way
a.. Christian Believers Conference
a.. Christian Bible Students Association
a.. Christian Millenial Fellowship
a.. Christian Prophets of Jehovah
a.. Dawn Bible Students Association
a.. Epiphany Bible Students Association
a.. Independent Bible Students
a.. Jehovah's Witnesses
a.. Laodicean Home Missionary Movement
a.. Layman's Home Missionary Movement
a.. Lord Our Righteousness (Life Support)
b.. Pastoral Bible Institute
a.. Philanthropic Assembly
e.. Sacred Name Groups
a.. Assemblies of YHWHHOSHUA
a.. Assemblies of Yah
a.. Assemblies of Yahvah
a.. Assemblies of Yahweh (Easton Rapids, Michigan)
b.. Assemblies of Yahweh
a.. Assemblies of the Called Out Ones of Yah
a.. Bible Study Association
a.. Church of God (Jerusalem)
b.. House of Yahweh (Abilene, Texas)
c.. House of Yahweh (Odessa, Texas)
d.. Missionary Dispensary Bible Research
a.. New Life Fellowship
a.. Scripture Research Association
a.. Workers Together with Elohim
a.. Yahweh's Assembly of Messiah
f.. British Israelism
a.. Anglo-Saxon Federation of America
a.. British-Israel-World Federation (Canada), Inc.
a.. Calvary Fellowship, Inc.
a.. Christian Conservative Churches of America
a.. Christian Identity Church
a.. Christian Research
a.. Church of Israel
a.. Church of Jesus Christ Christian (Aryan Nations)
b.. Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of the Lord
a.. House of Prayer for All People
a.. Kingdom Identity Ministries
a.. LaPorte Church of Christ
a.. Ministry of Christ Church
a.. National Association of Kingdom Evangelicals
a.. New Christian Crusade Church
a.. Prophetic Herald Ministry
a.. Remnant of Israel
a.. Tabernacle of the Phineas Priesthood
g.. Southcottites
a.. Israelite House of David
a.. Israelite House of David as Reorganized by Mary Purnell
a.. Yahweh's New Covenant Assembly
h.. Other Adventists
a.. Christadelphians
b.. Christian Nations - Eagle Warriors
a.. Church of God (Reinersten)
b.. Kingdom of God on Earth Within Man
a.. Remnant Church
a.. Restored Israel of Yahweh
a.. Shiloh True Light Church of Christ
a.. Star of Truth Foundation
a.. True Church
a.. Latter Day Saints or Mormons
a.. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints *
b.. Church of Christ (Temple Lot)
c.. Church of Jesus Christ in Zion
d.. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
e.. Community of Christ **
f.. Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
g.. Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
h.. Reformed Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
i.. Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
j.. Restored Church of Jesus Christ
k.. True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days


* The largest of these churches, headquarted in Salt Lake City, Utah,
sometimes called the LDS Church; commonly, but incorrectly called the Mormon
Church
** formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
or RLDS Church


Gnosticism
a.. Bogomils
a.. Borborites
a.. Carpocratians
a.. Cathars
a.. Manichaeism
Various Nontrinitarian
a.. Arians
a.. Church of Christ, Scientist **
a.. Doukhobors
a.. Iglesia ni Cristo
a.. Magi Network *
a.. Molokan
a.. Unification Church
a.. Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship *

* Independent Affiliate of the Unitarian Universalist Association **
Alternatively categorized as one of the New Thought churches


New Thought churches
a.. Divine Science
a.. Religious Science
a.. Unity (Association of Unity Churches)

[Br@dley]

..... Rowland was joined later by Lawrence and
Bradley (both from ARC where I had been). After the destruction of
the Griz cult Vera followed us to ARC.

Just to clarify, I did not come to ACC to "stop the cult" and appeared
afterwards.

:)

<snip>

[::: vera :::]

Post by ***@dley

..... Rowland was joined later by Lawrence and
Bradley (both from ARC where I had been). After the destruction of
the Griz cult Vera followed us to ARC.

Just to clarify, I did not come to ACC to "stop the cult" and appeared
afterwards.
:)
<snip>

... after helping Rowland Croucher putting those lies on his website...



::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::

[Br@dley []]

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by ***@dley

..... Rowland was joined later by Lawrence and
Bradley (both from ARC where I had been). After the destruction of
the Griz cult Vera followed us to ARC.

Just to clarify, I did not come to ACC to "stop the cult" and
appeared afterwards.
:)
<snip>

... after helping Rowland Croucher putting those lies on his
website...

I've responded to this nonsense before.... shame you don't listen.

[::: vera :::]

Post by Mark T
In November 2003 David Matthieu posted a general request for help
which mentioned the name of my friend Woz who had been "moderated" on
the unmoderated ACC by Griz, Vera

You are nothing but an evil liar. I have never met a person with that name.

Whoever claims that is a liar, especially if done in the way you accuse
people.

Go to an atheist group where you belong! Period.



::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::

[Mark T]

TRUE CHRISTIAN FAQ

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What are True Christians? (aka Trew Kristyuns)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hostile warmongering brain-dead bible-worshipping fanatical fundamentalists
like Vera, Abby, Bob, etc

AKA

- Venomous Vera, Vera 666, The Nazi, Plonk Bottle Washer, The Plonk Addict
- scAbby, Obnoxious Abby, Juvenile Jeanutter, the Nutty Nurse
- Boring Belligerent Bob, Boob, ***@bob.bob, Tim Tam Security Guard, The
Blob Meister, ***@blob./blob

They are (except for the non-Trew Kristyun Pedro who is headed for Trew
Kristyun Hell)

- Trew Kristyuns
- funnyMENTALists

Pedro is also known as The Pedrophile, Thick as a Brick, Pedrododo, The Dodo
Turd


All of them are
- Grizian thugs
- Pedrophiles
- Woohoo Wankers
- Poopers

These are characterised by one or more of the following:
- an extreme lack of rationality
- fondness of logical fallacies
- repeated use of emotional appeals
- rigid adherence to Bronze Age mythology
- endorsement of pseudoscientific nonsense
- bigotry and discriminatory attitudes towards minority groups
- belief that certain children's media is the work of Satan
- propensity to vomit Bible verses instead of giving valid argument.

The pictures of ALL these True Christians (aka Trew Krustyuns) are at

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame1.html


These pictures are as rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What's wrong with True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They appear to be as happy as if they were in their right minds.

They have the following unfortunate features:

- a distrust and fear of freedom
- a belief in the importance of authority and in controlling what people
believe
- a corre­sponding preference for obedience rather than love
- a desire to give people what they want rather than the truth
- a refusal to allow themselves to be in the least disconcerted when
confronted with the true nature of their fundamentalist religion
- a readiness to persecute and exclude anyone who is of a different
persuasion.

They prefer authority, obedience, and conformity over freedom, truth, and
dissent.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Are the True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) on this Newsgroup part of the
Griz cult?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes. Key Characteristics of the Griz cult are [adapted from Joanne Ruhland
1995]:

- Content Which Is Authoritarian
- Indoctrinates / clones
- Unquestioning obedience / Leaders do not discuss questions
- Love and loyalty are the bottom line
- Indoctrination /Leaders' conclusions must be accepted.
- Emphasis on uniformity
- Elitist / accepts SOME Christians
- Hidden agenda
- Manipulates
- Leaders "lord" it over the flock
- Results in conformity, rigidity
- Allows one avenue of service ... serving their group
- Individual is responsible to leaders
- Leaders tell individual what God's will is
- Analytical thinking hindered
- Simplistic approach to life
- Pick your own bible verse to lead you / Choices must conform to leaders'
dictates, leaders' approval


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) forgive those who sin against
them?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The bible says in Matthew 18:21-22 " Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord,
how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven
times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up
to seventy times seven.

So if someone sins against True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) they make
sure they follow this verse exactly and keep a ....

TREW KRISTYUN FORGIVEN SIN TALLY

70 times 7 minus 1 for today = 489 times left ...and counting.

That way True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) know exactly when they can hit
others with their steel encased KJV bible on the other cheek without
sinning.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How does one translate from True Christianese (aka Trew Kristyunese) to
Plain English?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You are only political - You want to have rational, logical and intelligent
discussions

You are a heretic - I don't agree with you

You are satan - I *really* don't agree with you

You support heretics - You are a friend to people on the fringe and show
compassion and love

You invade the NG - You came here the same as I did but I assumed control
before you came here and you aren't taking that away

This NG is not for discussion/debates - I fear being challenged by different
views and opinions

I don't have a problem with English, you do - I cannot admit I may be wrong
and I sometimes misunderstand people

This NG has guidelines - Regardless of the facts presented to me as to why
this NG won't/can't/doesn't have guidelines I feel there must be some form
of control over this group to stop mature discussion


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who are the beast fiends of True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns)?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All Trew Kristyuns, funnyMENTALists, Grizian thugs, Pedrophiles and other
assorted Woohoo Wankers and Poopers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What are True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns)'s favourite bible verse?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A new Trew Kristyun commandment I give unto you, That you luv one another as
long as they are Trew Kristyuns ... hunt out the other heretical buggers in
a Trew Kristyun Inquisition and burn them alive at the stake ... in Trew
Kristyun luv. - Mark 17:666 (MTV)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) discern if people are Trew
Kristyuns?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They know who are True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) by their plonk.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What are True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns)'s favourite websites?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

True Christian Church
http://www.truechristian.com/index.html

Landover Baptist ...Unsaved Unwelcome!
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

Broomleigh Baptist Church
http://church.broomleigh.org/

McChurch Tabernacle
http://www.mcchurch.com/

Lark News - "A good source for Christian news"
http://larknews.com/

Fundyland
http://fundyland.tripod.com/index.htm

Cheesy Jesus - Truly God awful stuff to buy
http://www.cheesyjesus.com/online-store/scstore/

Robert Tilton Video
http://strange.timetrip.net/?entry=tilton

People Against Fun
http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/savesummer/paintdrying.asp

Christ's Love
http://www.christslove.com/cl1.htm

Bible Sex Stories
http://www.biblesexstories.com/

Virtual Pox
http://www.virtualpox.net/

Where's Christ?
http://www.fadetoblack.com/christ/christ2.htm

Jesus Dress up
http://www.jesusdressup.com/

Watch Paint Dry
http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/savesummer/paintdrying.asp

The End Of The Internet
http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Should one respond to rants by True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns)?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is not polite to greet someone who is making water or discharging his
bowels." (Erasmus in Colloquia). Therefore you may like to quote: The
bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee. - Philemon 7.

If one must correspond with these fools then it is advised that one answers
with the following Trew Kristyun Flame Template .....

**************************************************************************

Dear Trew Kristyun

Kissy kissy! Now you pucker up and greet me with a kiss. (Romans 6:16;
1Corinthians 16:20; 2 Corinthians13:12; I Thessalonians 5:26; 1 Peter 5:14.)

I am refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view. You make silence
a wonderful thing to look forward to. However I took exception to your
recent scribble

It was:
[X] backmasked with Satanic messages
[X] Pagan
[X] New Age
[X] unChristian
[X] Secular Humanist
[X] written in King James English
[X] written in tongues and did not include the interpretation

Your attention is drawn to the fact that:
[X] You flamed the Archbishop of Canterbury
[X] You flamed the Pope
[X] You flamed God
[X] You contradicted Jesus
[X] You contradicted yourself several times
[X] You mindlessly chanted the Pente Mantra several times
[X] You repeatedly assumed unwarranted spiritual, moral or intellectual
superiority

My informed, considered, rational and logical answer to your scribble is in
the acronyms:

[X] AWGTHTGTTSA
[X] DBEYR
[X] DILLIGAD
[X] DQYDJ
[X] FUBAR
[X] GIGO
[X] HUYA
[X] LSHHTCMS
[X] NRN
[X] PMF
[X] SITD
[X] SOI
[X] TAFL
[X] VI
[X] YGBK

I'd explain them to you, but your brain would explode.

It is recommended that you:
[X] Buy an indulgence from me.
[X] Send me a triple tithe.
[X] Do penance.
[X] Devote your life to missionary work in Iraq and Afghanistan.
[X] Start up a Christian Clown Ministry
[X] Start up a Kristyun Skool

QUESTIONS TO UNDERSTAND YOU BETTER:

[X] Jesus said in Matthew 5:42, "Give to him that asketh thee, and from
him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." May I have your house
and car and may I borrow your most prized possession?
[X] Can I have your car after the Rapture?
[X] Have you ever sinned by eating rabbit, pork, shellfish (Leviticus 11:4,
7, 10)?
[X] Have you ever sinned by wearing clothes made of two types of material
(Leviticus 19:19; Deuteronomy 22:11)?
[X] Have you ever sinned by cutting your hair (Leviticus 19:27)?
[X] Were you in the special class at school?
[X] Are you from the shallow end of the gene pool?
[X] Do you want fries with that?

Please save this message and review it occasionally to determine your
progress toward being;

[X] a tolerable Trew Kristyun
[X] a fully-functional human being
[X] integrated into humanity
[X] re-integrated into the wild

If what you don't know can't hurt you, you're practically invulnerable.

Thank you for taking the time to read this flame form.

Remember: Always carry your Trew Kristyun Poop Stick ....Deuteronomy
23:12 -13 "You are to have a place outside the camp where you can go when
you need to relieve yourselves. Carry a stick as a part of your equipment,
so when you have a bowel movement you can dig a hole and cover it up."

**********************************************************************

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What prayers should be offered for a True Christian (aka Trew Kristyun) ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

O Lord, this True Christian's posts are so dull that I think I must be dead.
But if it be, Lord, by your grace and favour, that I am not in fact dead -
merely stunned into mind-numbing oblivion by the overall tedium and general
inconsequentiality of the proceeedings - grant your servant this: grant that
this true Christian becomes 'called up yonder' to that 'place which you have
prepared for him / her' right away ... if that be not too forward a request,
of course.

Amen.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How does one sing along with True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One must sing the True Christian (aka Trew Kristyun) Anthem ...

**********************************************************************

THE HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY SONG (by Ren & Stimpy)

Hello, boys and girls. This is your old pal, Stinky Wizzleteats. This is a
song about a whale. No! This is a song about being happy! That's right! It's
the Happy Happy Joy Joy song!

Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy!

I don't think you're happy enough! That's right! I'll teach you to be happy!
I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs! Now, boys and girls, let's try it
again!

Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy!

If'n you aint the grandaddy of all liars! The little critters of nature...
They don't know that they're ugly! That's very funny, a fly marrying a
bumblebee! I told you I'd shoot! But you didn't believe me! Why didn't you
believe me?!

Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Happy Happy
Happy Happy Happy Happy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy!

from http://www.bitstorm.org/happyjoy/ where you can also listen to the
song and pretend its a Jesus Jingle.

Guitar tab at http://www.guitaretab.com/m/misc-television/26019.html

See a happy happy joy joy dog at
http://www.yourpetphotos.com/funpages/happyjoy.cfm

Get you happy happy joy joy! sticker at
http://www.stickergiant.com/page/sg/PROD/g438

Buy the dvd at http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=5718

Buy happy happy joy joy action figures, toys, games and othjer kitsch at
http://www.entertainmentearth.com/c/Ren_&_Stimpy.html

Ren & Stimpy Information for Trew Kristyuns at
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~marcus/ren_stimpy/

#################################################

Compiled during the True Christian Inquisition (aka Trew Kristyun
Inkwazishun) of 2004 .

############################################

BEFORE RESPONDING TO THIS POST READ ....

******************************************

Peter Cameron "Fundamentalism and Freedom" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1995.)

p. 10 ff

[Fundamentalists] They will be fearful in the face of any challenge to their
security and brutal in their reaction; they will seek to bolster their
security by ersuading others of its validity.; and those others will be
persuaded ecause of their own increasing sense of insecurity in the modern
world. ...Fundamentalists need an enemy; an enemy both gives them their own
identity and unites them. ...they stand for nothing positive at all - simply
obedience to rules and the condemnation of those who break them. ... it is a
religion of fear which proceeds by intimidation. ... Fundamentalism ...
thrives on protective stupidity. ...fear in the face of any challenge to the
status quo; ... brutality in suppressing dissent;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Os Guiness "Fit Bodies, Fat Minds: Why Evangelicals don't think and
what to do about it" ( Baker Books; Grand Rapids:1994)

p. 143

A fourth misconception concerns the idea that thinking Christianly is a form
of uniformity - in other words, that if we all think Christianly we will all
think the same way. Whe this happens, the goal of thinking Christianly
collapses into a frantic search for the one particular correct way of
thinking or acting. The result is he fallacy of "particularism", the
uniformity of a particular "Christianly Correct" way of thinking.
...[particularism] denies two requirements of thinking Christianly that
oppose all uniformity: the importance of diversity and the fact of human
fallibility.

p. 143 - 144

For another thing, applying the idea of uniformity is disastrous because it
leads inevitably to legalsim and judgementalism. There is only a short and
easy step from "This is the Christian way" to "There is only one Christian
way" to "Anything different from this Christian way is not Christian" to
"All those who differ fom my way are not Christians".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

C Edward Baker "The Church's Neurosis & 20th Century Revelations" (Rider &
Co; London; 1975)

*[I have replaced his use of 'S. Paul" meaning Saint Paul with "St. Paul"
for easier reading.]

p. 37 - The writer of the Epistle of John said ' There is no fear in love,'
and that is true. It comes out very boldly in Jesus' story of the prodigal
son.

p. 38 - ...biblical fundamentalists. Their obscurantism and their inability
to look historical facts in the face mark them out as very insecure people
who need some outward token of infallible authority because they lack an
inner authority adequate to control their deep confusions and fears.
Psychotherapy constantly produces evidence that this narrowness of
view-point and tendency to bigotry covers an unfortunate tug-of-war between
instinctual drives and super-ego authority, issuing in obsessive symptoms.

p. 43 - Much of the urgency manifested by the church is prompted obviously
by fear, and not least fear of change.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robin Skinner & John Cleese "LIFE ...and how to survive it" - (Methuen;
London:1993)

p. 270 - 271

John: So a religious idea will be interpreted by a person in a way that fits
in best with their existing psychology?

Robin: Yes, and it can therefore support them in functioning at the best
level they're capable of, given their limitations. ... Well, take people
functioning at the least healthy level first. They'll understand religion
as a collection of rules, of rewards and punishments, of threats and
promises, all enfoced by a powerful and frightening God.

John: The extreme black-and-white thinking found in young children?

Robin: That's exactly what it is. The thinking of such people has got
stuck at that level, and though it's normal in a very young child, it's
obviously unhealthy in an adult.
...
John: And how is God experienced?

Robin: He's seen as a terrifying, domineering, bad-temprered dictator, who
wants everyone to spend heir time admiring him and telling him how
marvellous he is. ... So naturally people holding this view feel they have
to do lots of things to keep Him sweet, so that He won't get into a bad mood
and blast them with thunderbolts, or boils, or rivers of blood.


p. 287

John: Well, everything that you've been saying implies that
[Fundamentalism] is a manifestation of a fairly low level of mental health,
doesn't it? For a start, Fundamentalists call for a literal interpretation
of scripture, and as we saw when we were discussing secular values, focusing
in on the letter of the law is a characteristic of the less healthy. In
addition, wise people tend not to exhibit literal mindedness, so it seems
singularly inappropriate to assume that this is the vein in which great
spiritual teahers are speaking. Then again, whether we're talking about
Christianity, Islam, Judaism or Hinduism, the values of Fundamentalists seem
aimed at making themselves feel better by placing all negative and
destructive emotions in people with different beliefs, and enjoying the
golden glow of self-justification that results. ... You know that simile:
'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.' ... the Inquisition did
largely miss the point of 'Love Thy Neighbour', didn't they? Wasn't burning
heretics 'worse' than being tolerant towards them? ...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994)

p.18
One of the great services which Freud did was to draw attention to the
element of guilt and neurosis in religion.

p. 52
.. Christianity is a religion above all of freedom. Because freedom is a
prerequisite for everything else. You cannot love without freedom, you can
only have fear. You cannot have growth without freedom, you can only have
obedience. ... There is in fact a New Puritanism on the prowl in our
society, and it has to be resisted.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

God save me from your fundy fanatics!

A vomit of bible verses proves nothing.

"All things are probable. Try to believe." Mark 17:1 (MTV)

#################################################

My Testimony at
http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm

#################################################

[::: vera :::]

In news:***@dnews.tpgi.com.au,
Mark T <***@home.in.oz> wrote:

Stop spamming and go to an atheist group where you belong!


http://tinyurl.com/4dagh



::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::

[Diana]

Post by ::: vera :::
Stop spamming and go to an atheist group where you
belong!
http://tinyurl.com/4dagh

Stop being an accuser of the Brethren

[Abby]

Post by Diana

Post by ::: vera :::
Stop spamming and go to an atheist group where you belong!
http://tinyurl.com/4dagh

Stop being an accuser of the Brethren

You think YOU are part of the brethren? HA!
YOU are a liar and the truth is not in you.

Abbs

[Diana]

Post by Abby

Post by Diana

Post by ::: vera :::
Stop spamming and go to an atheist group where you
belong!
http://tinyurl.com/4dagh

Stop being an accuser of the Brethren

You think YOU are part of the brethren? HA!
YOU are a liar and the truth is not in you.
Abbs

Thank you Jeannette for your time in answering my post.
I hope you are having a nice evening

[Mark T]

"Abby" wrote:

...nothing of any importance ...as usual ...good ol' vacuous Abby ....

TRUE CHRISTIAN FAQ

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What are True Christians? (aka Trew Kristyuns)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hostile warmongering brain-dead bible-worshipping fanatical fundamentalists
like Vera, Abby, Bob, etc

AKA

- Venomous Vera, Vera 666, The Nazi, Plonk Bottle Washer, The Plonk Addict
- scAbby, Obnoxious Abby, Juvenile Jeanutter, the Nutty Nurse
- Boring Belligerent Bob, Boob, ***@bob.bob, Tim Tam Security Guard, The
Blob Meister, ***@blob./blob

They are (except for the non-Trew Kristyun Pedro who is headed for Trew
Kristyun Hell)

- Trew Kristyuns
- funnyMENTALists

Pedro is also known as The Pedrophile, Thick as a Brick, Pedrododo, The Dodo
Turd


All of them are
- Grizian thugs
- Pedrophiles
- Woohoo Wankers
- Poopers

These are characterised by one or more of the following:
- an extreme lack of rationality
- fondness of logical fallacies
- repeated use of emotional appeals
- rigid adherence to Bronze Age mythology
- endorsement of pseudoscientific nonsense
- bigotry and discriminatory attitudes towards minority groups
- belief that certain children's media is the work of Satan
- propensity to vomit Bible verses instead of giving valid argument.

The pictures of ALL these True Christians (aka Trew Krustyuns) are at

http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame1.html


These pictures are as rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What's wrong with True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They appear to be as happy as if they were in their right minds.

They have the following unfortunate features:

- a distrust and fear of freedom
- a belief in the importance of authority and in controlling what people
believe
- a corre­sponding preference for obedience rather than love
- a desire to give people what they want rather than the truth
- a refusal to allow themselves to be in the least disconcerted when
confronted with the true nature of their fundamentalist religion
- a readiness to persecute and exclude anyone who is of a different
persuasion.

They prefer authority, obedience, and conformity over freedom, truth, and
dissent.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Are the True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) on this Newsgroup part of the
Griz cult?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes. Key Characteristics of the Griz cult are [adapted from Joanne Ruhland
1995]:

- Content Which Is Authoritarian
- Indoctrinates / clones
- Unquestioning obedience / Leaders do not discuss questions
- Love and loyalty are the bottom line
- Indoctrination /Leaders' conclusions must be accepted.
- Emphasis on uniformity
- Elitist / accepts SOME Christians
- Hidden agenda
- Manipulates
- Leaders "lord" it over the flock
- Results in conformity, rigidity
- Allows one avenue of service ... serving their group
- Individual is responsible to leaders
- Leaders tell individual what God's will is
- Analytical thinking hindered
- Simplistic approach to life
- Pick your own bible verse to lead you / Choices must conform to leaders'
dictates, leaders' approval


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) forgive those who sin against
them?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The bible says in Matthew 18:21-22 " Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord,
how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven
times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up
to seventy times seven.

So if someone sins against True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) they make
sure they follow this verse exactly and keep a ....

TREW KRISTYUN FORGIVEN SIN TALLY

70 times 7 minus 1 for today = 489 times left ...and counting.

That way True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) know exactly when they can hit
others with their steel encased KJV bible on the other cheek without
sinning.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How does one translate from True Christianese (aka Trew Kristyunese) to
Plain English?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You are only political - You want to have rational, logical and intelligent
discussions

You are a heretic - I don't agree with you

You are satan - I *really* don't agree with you

You support heretics - You are a friend to people on the fringe and show
compassion and love

You invade the NG - You came here the same as I did but I assumed control
before you came here and you aren't taking that away

This NG is not for discussion/debates - I fear being challenged by different
views and opinions

I don't have a problem with English, you do - I cannot admit I may be wrong
and I sometimes misunderstand people

This NG has guidelines - Regardless of the facts presented to me as to why
this NG won't/can't/doesn't have guidelines I feel there must be some form
of control over this group to stop mature discussion


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who are the beast fiends of True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns)?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All Trew Kristyuns, funnyMENTALists, Grizian thugs, Pedrophiles and other
assorted Woohoo Wankers and Poopers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What are True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns)'s favourite bible verse?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A new Trew Kristyun commandment I give unto you, That you luv one another as
long as they are Trew Kristyuns ... hunt out the other heretical buggers in
a Trew Kristyun Inquisition and burn them alive at the stake ... in Trew
Kristyun luv. - Mark 17:666 (MTV)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) discern if people are Trew
Kristyuns?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They know who are True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) by their plonk.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What are True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns)'s favourite websites?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

True Christian Church
http://www.truechristian.com/index.html

Landover Baptist ...Unsaved Unwelcome!
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

Broomleigh Baptist Church
http://church.broomleigh.org/

McChurch Tabernacle
http://www.mcchurch.com/

Lark News - "A good source for Christian news"
http://larknews.com/

Fundyland
http://fundyland.tripod.com/index.htm

Cheesy Jesus - Truly God awful stuff to buy
http://www.cheesyjesus.com/online-store/scstore/

Robert Tilton Video
http://strange.timetrip.net/?entry=tilton

People Against Fun
http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/savesummer/paintdrying.asp

Christ's Love
http://www.christslove.com/cl1.htm

Bible Sex Stories
http://www.biblesexstories.com/

Virtual Pox
http://www.virtualpox.net/

Where's Christ?
http://www.fadetoblack.com/christ/christ2.htm

Jesus Dress up
http://www.jesusdressup.com/

Watch Paint Dry
http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/savesummer/paintdrying.asp

The End Of The Internet
http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Should one respond to rants by True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns)?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is not polite to greet someone who is making water or discharging his
bowels." (Erasmus in Colloquia). Therefore you may like to quote: The
bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee. - Philemon 7.

If one must correspond with these fools then it is advised that one answers
with the following Trew Kristyun Flame Template .....

**************************************************************************

Dear Trew Kristyun

Kissy kissy! Now you pucker up and greet me with a kiss. (Romans 6:16;
1Corinthians 16:20; 2 Corinthians13:12; I Thessalonians 5:26; 1 Peter 5:14.)

I am refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view. You make silence
a wonderful thing to look forward to. However I took exception to your
recent scribble

It was:
[X] backmasked with Satanic messages
[X] Pagan
[X] New Age
[X] unChristian
[X] Secular Humanist
[X] written in King James English
[X] written in tongues and did not include the interpretation

Your attention is drawn to the fact that:
[X] You flamed the Archbishop of Canterbury
[X] You flamed the Pope
[X] You flamed God
[X] You contradicted Jesus
[X] You contradicted yourself several times
[X] You mindlessly chanted the Pente Mantra several times
[X] You repeatedly assumed unwarranted spiritual, moral or intellectual
superiority

My informed, considered, rational and logical answer to your scribble is in
the acronyms:

[X] AWGTHTGTTSA
[X] DBEYR
[X] DILLIGAD
[X] DQYDJ
[X] FUBAR
[X] GIGO
[X] HUYA
[X] LSHHTCMS
[X] NRN
[X] PMF
[X] SITD
[X] SOI
[X] TAFL
[X] VI
[X] YGBK

I'd explain them to you, but your brain would explode.

It is recommended that you:
[X] Buy an indulgence from me.
[X] Send me a triple tithe.
[X] Do penance.
[X] Devote your life to missionary work in Iraq and Afghanistan.
[X] Start up a Christian Clown Ministry
[X] Start up a Kristyun Skool

QUESTIONS TO UNDERSTAND YOU BETTER:

[X] Jesus said in Matthew 5:42, "Give to him that asketh thee, and from
him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." May I have your house
and car and may I borrow your most prized possession?
[X] Can I have your car after the Rapture?
[X] Have you ever sinned by eating rabbit, pork, shellfish (Leviticus 11:4,
7, 10)?
[X] Have you ever sinned by wearing clothes made of two types of material
(Leviticus 19:19; Deuteronomy 22:11)?
[X] Have you ever sinned by cutting your hair (Leviticus 19:27)?
[X] Were you in the special class at school?
[X] Are you from the shallow end of the gene pool?
[X] Do you want fries with that?

Please save this message and review it occasionally to determine your
progress toward being;

[X] a tolerable Trew Kristyun
[X] a fully-functional human being
[X] integrated into humanity
[X] re-integrated into the wild

If what you don't know can't hurt you, you're practically invulnerable.

Thank you for taking the time to read this flame form.

Remember: Always carry your Trew Kristyun Poop Stick ....Deuteronomy
23:12 -13 "You are to have a place outside the camp where you can go when
you need to relieve yourselves. Carry a stick as a part of your equipment,
so when you have a bowel movement you can dig a hole and cover it up."

**********************************************************************

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What prayers should be offered for a True Christian (aka Trew Kristyun) ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

O Lord, this True Christian's posts are so dull that I think I must be dead.
But if it be, Lord, by your grace and favour, that I am not in fact dead -
merely stunned into mind-numbing oblivion by the overall tedium and general
inconsequentiality of the proceeedings - grant your servant this: grant that
this true Christian becomes 'called up yonder' to that 'place which you have
prepared for him / her' right away ... if that be not too forward a request,
of course.

Amen.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How does one sing along with True Christians (aka Trew Kristyuns) ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One must sing the True Christian (aka Trew Kristyun) Anthem ...

**********************************************************************

THE HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY SONG (by Ren & Stimpy)

Hello, boys and girls. This is your old pal, Stinky Wizzleteats. This is a
song about a whale. No! This is a song about being happy! That's right! It's
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from http://www.bitstorm.org/happyjoy/ where you can also listen to the
song and pretend its a Jesus Jingle.

Guitar tab at http://www.guitaretab.com/m/misc-television/26019.html

See a happy happy joy joy dog at
http://www.yourpetphotos.com/funpages/happyjoy.cfm

Get you happy happy joy joy! sticker at
http://www.stickergiant.com/page/sg/PROD/g438

Buy the dvd at http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=5718

Buy happy happy joy joy action figures, toys, games and othjer kitsch at
http://www.entertainmentearth.com/c/Ren_&_Stimpy.html

Ren & Stimpy Information for Trew Kristyuns at
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~marcus/ren_stimpy/

#################################################

Compiled during the True Christian Inquisition (aka Trew Kristyun
Inkwazishun) of 2004 .

############################################

BEFORE RESPONDING TO THIS POST READ ....

******************************************

Peter Cameron "Fundamentalism and Freedom" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1995.)

p. 10 ff

[Fundamentalists] They will be fearful in the face of any challenge to their
security and brutal in their reaction; they will seek to bolster their
security by ersuading others of its validity.; and those others will be
persuaded ecause of their own increasing sense of insecurity in the modern
world. ...Fundamentalists need an enemy; an enemy both gives them their own
identity and unites them. ...they stand for nothing positive at all - simply
obedience to rules and the condemnation of those who break them. ... it is a
religion of fear which proceeds by intimidation. ... Fundamentalism ...
thrives on protective stupidity. ...fear in the face of any challenge to the
status quo; ... brutality in suppressing dissent;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

From Os Guiness "Fit Bodies, Fat Minds: Why Evangelicals don't think and
what to do about it" ( Baker Books; Grand Rapids:1994)

p. 143

A fourth misconception concerns the idea that thinking Christianly is a form
of uniformity - in other words, that if we all think Christianly we will all
think the same way. Whe this happens, the goal of thinking Christianly
collapses into a frantic search for the one particular correct way of
thinking or acting. The result is he fallacy of "particularism", the
uniformity of a particular "Christianly Correct" way of thinking.
...[particularism] denies two requirements of thinking Christianly that
oppose all uniformity: the importance of diversity and the fact of human
fallibility.

p. 143 - 144

For another thing, applying the idea of uniformity is disastrous because it
leads inevitably to legalsim and judgementalism. There is only a short and
easy step from "This is the Christian way" to "There is only one Christian
way" to "Anything different from this Christian way is not Christian" to
"All those who differ fom my way are not Christians".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

C Edward Baker "The Church's Neurosis & 20th Century Revelations" (Rider &
Co; London; 1975)

*[I have replaced his use of 'S. Paul" meaning Saint Paul with "St. Paul"
for easier reading.]

p. 37 - The writer of the Epistle of John said ' There is no fear in love,'
and that is true. It comes out very boldly in Jesus' story of the prodigal
son.

p. 38 - ...biblical fundamentalists. Their obscurantism and their inability
to look historical facts in the face mark them out as very insecure people
who need some outward token of infallible authority because they lack an
inner authority adequate to control their deep confusions and fears.
Psychotherapy constantly produces evidence that this narrowness of
view-point and tendency to bigotry covers an unfortunate tug-of-war between
instinctual drives and super-ego authority, issuing in obsessive symptoms.

p. 43 - Much of the urgency manifested by the church is prompted obviously
by fear, and not least fear of change.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Robin Skinner & John Cleese "LIFE ...and how to survive it" - (Methuen;
London:1993)

p. 270 - 271

John: So a religious idea will be interpreted by a person in a way that fits
in best with their existing psychology?

Robin: Yes, and it can therefore support them in functioning at the best
level they're capable of, given their limitations. ... Well, take people
functioning at the least healthy level first. They'll understand religion
as a collection of rules, of rewards and punishments, of threats and
promises, all enfoced by a powerful and frightening God.

John: The extreme black-and-white thinking found in young children?

Robin: That's exactly what it is. The thinking of such people has got
stuck at that level, and though it's normal in a very young child, it's
obviously unhealthy in an adult.
...
John: And how is God experienced?

Robin: He's seen as a terrifying, domineering, bad-temprered dictator, who
wants everyone to spend heir time admiring him and telling him how
marvellous he is. ... So naturally people holding this view feel they have
to do lots of things to keep Him sweet, so that He won't get into a bad mood
and blast them with thunderbolts, or boils, or rivers of blood.


p. 287

John: Well, everything that you've been saying implies that
[Fundamentalism] is a manifestation of a fairly low level of mental health,
doesn't it? For a start, Fundamentalists call for a literal interpretation
of scripture, and as we saw when we were discussing secular values, focusing
in on the letter of the law is a characteristic of the less healthy. In
addition, wise people tend not to exhibit literal mindedness, so it seems
singularly inappropriate to assume that this is the vein in which great
spiritual teahers are speaking. Then again, whether we're talking about
Christianity, Islam, Judaism or Hinduism, the values of Fundamentalists seem
aimed at making themselves feel better by placing all negative and
destructive emotions in people with different beliefs, and enjoying the
golden glow of self-justification that results. ... You know that simile:
'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.' ... the Inquisition did
largely miss the point of 'Love Thy Neighbour', didn't they? Wasn't burning
heretics 'worse' than being tolerant towards them? ...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994)

p.18
One of the great services which Freud did was to draw attention to the
element of guilt and neurosis in religion.

p. 52
.. Christianity is a religion above all of freedom. Because freedom is a
prerequisite for everything else. You cannot love without freedom, you can
only have fear. You cannot have growth without freedom, you can only have
obedience. ... There is in fact a New Puritanism on the prowl in our
society, and it has to be resisted.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

God save me from your fundy fanatics!

A vomit of bible verses proves nothing.

"All things are probable. Try to believe." Mark 17:1 (MTV)

#################################################

My Testimony at
http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm

#################################################

[Mark T]

Post by ::: vera :::
go to an atheist group where you belong!

Is there a Nazi bitch ng where you can go to????


--
#################################################
My Testimony at
http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm

***********************************************************

'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.

#################################################
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not really true Christians at
all.' - Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
#################################################

[Diana]

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by Mark T
In November 2003 David Matthieu posted a general
request for help
which mentioned the name of my friend Woz who had
been "moderated" on
the unmoderated ACC by Griz, Vera

You are nothing but an evil liar. I have never met a
person with that name.
Whoever claims that is a liar, especially if done in
the way you accuse
people.
Go to an atheist group where you belong! Period.
--

Hi Vera,
Have a Blessed Day !!

[HeLovesYou]

Post by Mark T
In November 2003 David Matthieu posted a general request for help which
mentioned the name of my friend Woz who had been "moderated" on the
unmoderated ACC by Griz, Vera and their fundamentalist thugs. David
Matthieu spoke of the abuse and intimidation endured by my friend and fellow
CHRISTIAN ARTIST, Woz and many other Christians who were chased away from
ACC by Griz and Vera and their thugs. In 2003-2004 a number of Christians
of varying Christian traditions helped destroy the Griz cult (of which Vera
was a mjor member) to bring this NG back to its original intent - A FREE
UNMODERATED PUBLIC FORUM FOR ALL CHRISTIANS!! Though we were not an
homogenous group of Christians (we had various Christian belief from a wide
cross-section of Christianity) it was Christian unity against Griz, Vera and
their bully building team not cultish fundamentalist uniformity like Griz
and Vera demanded of others.
Rowland advised me against coming to ACC and told me it was a waste of my
time and talent. I ignored him. Gradually Rowland saw the benefit in
helping the Christians who had been abused by Griz and Vera and their thugs.
Rowland was joined later by Lawrence and Bradley (both from ARC where I had
been). After the destruction of the Griz cult Vera followed us to ARC.
Various members of the Griz cult used aliases ... including Vera. I was
warned about this (and their other intimidating tactics) in advance by a
number of their victims. I posted (annonymously) the testimony of one of
their victims who came to me for help.
All this may be verified by a simple Google search.
Anyone can discuss anything about Christian life on ACC (...and on any alt
newsgroup). It is NOT limited to ONLY fundamentalists, or ONLY evangelicals
or ONLY liberals. It is for ALL Christans. The point is then
to DISCUSS with these other Christians not to plonk them, chase them away or
tell lies and gossip about them.
ACC IS A PUBLIC UNMODERATED FORUM in the Alt NG hierarchy which according to
the FAQ for Alt NGs [ http://www.visi.com/~barr/alt-creation-guide.html]
....is a "refuge away from the control freaks, namespace purists and
net.cops ... that maintain and enforce the mainstream newsgroup guidelines."
ACC = alt.christian.christianlife which BY ITS TITLE is dedicated to
ANYTHING which comes up during CHRISTIAN LIFE.
ALL Christians from ALL denominations are welcome and NO Christian is banned
or censored at alt.christnet.christianlife. *[For a sample of the
many varying Christian denominations welcome at

alt.christnet.christianlife

Post by Mark T
see Appendix A]
###################################################################
List of Christian denominations ordered by historical and doctrinal
relationships.
This is not exhaustive but merely a sample.
Many of the Christians belonging to these churches are not considered "True
Christians" by Vera, Bob, Abby and Pedro and their thugs.
Orthodox Churches
a.. Eastern Orthodox Churches
a.. Albanian Orthodox Church
b.. Orthodox Church of Alexandria
c.. Orthodox Church in America
d.. Orthodox Church of Antioch
e.. Bulgarian Orthodox Church
f.. Chinese Orthodox Church
g.. Orthodox Church of Constantinople
h.. Cypriot Orthodox Church
i.. Czech and Slovak Orthodox Church
j.. Estonian Orthodox Church
k.. Orthodox Church of Finland
l.. Georgian Orthodox Church
m.. Church of Greece
n.. Japanese Orthodox Church
o.. Orthodox Church of Jerusalem
p.. Orthodox Church of Mount Sinai
q.. Polish Orthodox Church
r.. Romanian Orthodox Church
s.. Russian Orthodox Church
t.. Serb Orthodox Church
u.. Ukrainian Orthodox Church
a.. Oriental Orthodox Communion
a.. Armenian Apostolic Church
b.. Coptic Orthodox Church
c.. Ethiopian Orthodox Church
d.. Eritrean Orthodox Church
e.. Indian Orthodox Church ("Malankara Syrian")
f.. Syrian Orthodox Church ("Jacobite Syrian")
a.. Schismatic Orthodox Churches
a.. Belorussian Orthodox Church
b.. Church of the Genuine Orthodox Christians of Greece
c.. Macedonian Orthodox Church
d.. Old Believers
e.. Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia
f.. Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church
Celtic Christianity
a.. Celtic Catholic Church
Catholicism
a.. Roman Catholic Church
a.. Eastern Catholic Churches
a.. Armenian Catholic Church
b.. Chaldean Catholic Church
c.. Coptic Catholic Church
d.. Ethiopian Catholic Church
e.. Maronites
f.. Melkites
g.. Syrian Catholic Church
h.. Syro-Malabar Catholic Church
i.. Syro-Malankara Catholic Church
a.. American Catholic Church
a.. Catholic Apostolic Church
a.. Catholic Life Church
a.. Christ Catholic Church
a.. Liberal Catholic Church
a.. Mariavite Church
a.. Neouniate Church
a.. North American Old Catholic Church
a.. Old Catholic Church
a.. Palmarian Catholic Church
a.. Polish National Catholic Church
a.. Philippine Independent Church
a.. Uniate Church (Byzantine Church)
Nestorian Churches
a.. Assyrian Church of the East
Protestantism and descendant churches
a.. Early Protestants (before Luther)
a.. Hussites
b.. Lollards
c.. Waldensians
a.. Lutheran
a.. American Association of Lutheran Churches
b.. Apostolic Lutheran Church of America
c.. Association of Free Lutheran Congregations
d.. Church of Denmark
e.. Church of Estonia
f.. Church of Finland
g.. Church of Iceland
h.. Church of Norway
i.. Church of Sweden
j.. Church of the Lutheran Brethren of America
k.. Church of the Lutheran Confession
l.. Evangelical Covenant Church of America ("Swedish Evangelical Mission
Covenant")
m.. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
n.. Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada
o.. Evangelical Lutheran Church in South Africa
p.. Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvia
q.. Evangelical Lutheran Synod
r.. Laestadian Lutheran Church
s.. Latvian Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
t.. Lutheran Church of Australia
u.. Lutheran Church of New Zealand
v.. Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod
w.. Lutheran Church - Canada
x.. Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
y.. See also: United / Uniting churches
a.. Reformed and Presbyterian Churches
a.. Reformed churches
a.. Canadian and American Reformed Churches
a.. Christian Reformed Church in North America
b.. Church of Lippe
c.. Dutch Reformed Church
d.. Federation of Swiss Protestant Churches
a.. Free Reformed Churches of North America
a.. Heritage Reformed Congregations
a.. Hungarian Reformed Church in America
a.. Orthodox Christian Reformed Church
a.. Protestant Reformed Churches in America
a.. Reformed Christian Church in Croatia
a.. Reformed Church in America
b.. Reformed Church in Bavaria and Northwestern Germany
c.. Reformed Church in Hungary
a.. Reformed Church in the United States
a.. Reformed Church of Alsace and Lorraine
a.. Reformed Church of Japan
a.. Remonstrant Brotherhood
a.. United Reformed Church
b.. United Reformed Churches in North America
b.. Presbyterian
a.. Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
a.. Bible Presbyterian Church
a.. Church of Scotland
b.. Cumberland Presbyterian Church
c.. Evangelical Presbyterian Church
a.. Evangelical Presbyterian Church in England and Wales
a.. Free Church of Scotland
a.. Free Church of Scotland Continuing
a.. Free Presbyterian Church
a.. Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland
a.. Korean Presbyterian Church in America
a.. Orthodox Presbyterian Church
a.. Presbyterian Church in America
b.. Presbyterian Church in Ireland
a.. Presbyterian Church in Korea
a.. Presbyterian Church in the Republic of Korea
a.. Presbyterian Church of Aotearoa New Zealand
a.. Presbyterian Church of Australia
a.. Presbyterian Church of Canada
a.. Presbyterian Church of Korea
a.. Presbyterian Church of Wales
a.. Presbyterian Church USA
b.. Reformed Presbyterian Church - Covenanted
a.. Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland
a.. Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America
b.. United Free Church of Scotland
a.. Uniting Presbyterian Church in Southern Africa
c.. see also United / Uniting churches
a.. Plymouth Brethren
a.. Anabaptist
a.. Amish
a.. Beachy Amish
b.. Nebraska Amish
c.. Old Order Amish
d.. Swartzendruber Amish
b.. Hutterites
a.. Bruderhof Communities
c.. Mennonites
a.. Alliance of Mennonite Evangelical Congregations
a.. Anabaptist Association of Australia and New Zealand
a.. Brethren in Christ
a.. Canadian Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches
a.. Church of God in Christ, Mennonite (aka Holdeman Mennonites)
b.. Conservative Mennonite Conference
a.. Chortitzer Mennonite Conference
a.. Evangelical Mennonite Church
a.. Evangelical Mennonite Conference
a.. Evangelical Mennonite Mission Conference
a.. Japan Mennonite Brethren Conference
a.. Mennonite World Conference
a.. Mennonite Church Canada
a.. Mennonite Church in the Netherlands
a.. Mennonite Church USA
a.. Swiss Mennonite Conference
a.. US Conferences of Mennonite Brethren Churches
d.. Schwarzenau Brethren
a.. Church of the Brethren
b.. Conservative Grace Brethren Churches, International
c.. Dunkard Brethren
d.. Ephrata Cloister
e.. Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches
f.. Old German Baptist Brethren
g.. Old Order German Baptist Brethren
h.. The Brethren Church (Ashland Brethren)
a.. Baptist (All Baptist associations are congregationalist affiliations for
the purpose of cooperation, in which each local church is governmentally
independent)
a.. Alliance of Baptists
b.. American Baptist Association
c.. American Baptist Church
d.. American Baptist Convention
e.. Association of Baptist Churches in Ireland
f.. Association of Grace Baptist Churches
g.. Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America
h.. Association of Regular Baptist Churches
i.. Baptist Bible Fellowship International
j.. Baptist Conference of the Philippines
k.. Baptist Convention of Ontario and Quebec
l.. Baptist Convention of Western Cuba
m.. Baptist General Conference
n.. Baptist General Conference of Canada
o.. Baptist General Convention of Texas
p.. Baptist Missionary Association of America
q.. Baptist Union of Australia
r.. Baptist Union of Great Britain
s.. Baptist Union of New Zealand
t.. Baptist Union of Scotland
u.. Baptist Union of Western Canada
v.. Baptist World Alliance
w.. Bible Baptist
x.. Canadian Baptist Ministries
y.. Canadian Convention of Southern Baptists
z.. Central Baptist Association
aa.. Central Canada Baptist Conference
ab.. Christian Unity Baptist Association
ac.. Colored Primitive Baptists
ad.. Conservative Baptist Association
ae.. Conservative Baptist Association of America
af.. Conservative Baptists
ag.. Continental Baptist Churches
ah.. Convención Nacional Bautista de Mexico
ai.. Convention of Atlantic Baptist Churches
aj.. Cooperative Baptist Fellowship
ak.. European Baptist Convention
al.. European Baptist Federation
am.. Evangelical Baptist Mission of South Haiti
an.. Evangelical Free Baptist Church
ao.. Fellowship of Evangelical Baptist Churches in Canada
ap.. Free Will Baptist Church
aq.. Fundamental Baptist Fellowship of America
ar.. General Association of Baptists
as.. General Association of General Baptists
at.. General Association of Regular Baptist Churches
au.. General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc.
av.. General Six-Principle Baptists
aw.. Global Independent Baptist Fellowship
ax.. Grace Baptist Assembly
ay.. Independent Baptists
az.. Independent Baptist Church of America
ba.. Independent Baptist Fellowship International
bb.. Independent Baptist Fellowship of North America
bc.. Interstate & Foreign Landmark Missionary Baptist Association
bd.. Landmark Baptist Church
be.. Liberty Baptist Fellowship
bf.. Myanmar Baptist Convention
bg.. National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.
bh.. National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc.
bi.. National Baptist Evangelical Life and Soul Saving Assembly of the
U.S.A.
bj.. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
bk.. National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A.
bl.. New England Evangelical Baptist Fellowship
bm.. New Testament Association of Independent Baptist Churches
bn.. North American Baptist Conference
bo.. Northern Baptist Convention
bp.. Norwegian Baptist Union
bq.. Old Baptist Union
br.. Old Regular Baptists
bs.. Old Time Missionary Baptists
bt.. Primitive Baptists
bu.. Progressive Baptists
bv.. Progressive National Baptist Convention
bw.. Reformed Baptists
bx.. Regular Baptist Churches, General Association of
by.. Regular Baptists
bz.. Separate Baptists
ca.. Separate Baptists in Christ
cb.. Seventh Day Baptists
cc.. Southeast Conservative Baptists
cd.. Southern Baptist Convention
ce.. Southern Baptists of Texas
cf.. Sovereign Grace Baptists
cg.. Strict Baptists
ch.. Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists
ci.. Union D'Eglises Baptistes Francaises Au Canada
cj.. United American Free Will Baptist Church
ck.. United American Free Will Baptist Conference
cl.. United Baptist Convention of the Atlantic Provinces
cm.. United Baptists
cn.. United Free Will Baptist
co.. Unregistered Baptist Fellowship
cp.. World Baptist Alliance
cq.. World Baptist Fellowship
a.. See also List of Baptist sub-denominations
a.. Pentecostals
a.. Abundant Life Worship Centers
b.. Apostolic Assemblies of Christ
c.. Apostolic Assembly of the Faith in Christ Jesus
d.. Apostolic Church of Pentecost of Canada
e.. Apostolic Faith Church
f.. Apostolic Overcoming Holy Church of God
g.. Assemblies of God
h.. Bible Way Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ
i.. Christ Gospel Churches International
j.. Christian Congregation of Brazil
k.. Church of God (Huntsville, Alabama)
l.. Church of God (Charleston, Tennessee)
m.. Church of God (Chattanooga)
n.. Church of God (Cleveland)
o.. Church of God by Faith
p.. Church of God in Christ
q.. Church of God Mountain Assembly
r.. Church of God of Prophecy
s.. Church of God with Signs Following
t.. Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith
u.. Congregational Holiness Church
v.. Elim Pentecostal Church
w.. Fire Baptized Holiness Church of God of the Americas
x.. God is Love Pentecostal Church
y.. Independent Assemblies of God, International
z.. International Church of the Foursquare Gospel
aa.. International Pentecostal Church of Christ
ab.. International Pentecostal Holiness Church
ac.. Open Bible Standard Churches (association of autonomous churches)
ad.. Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada
ae.. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World
af.. Pentecostal Church of God
ag.. Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church
ah.. Redeemed Christian Church of God
ai.. United Holy Church of America
aj.. United Pentecostal Church International
a.. African Independent Churches
a.. Church of the Lord
b.. Kimbanguist Church
c.. Zion Christian Church
a.. Messianic Judaism
a.. Chosen People Ministries
b.. Jews for Jesus
c.. Union of Messianic Jewish Congregations
a.. Misc. movement churches
a.. Calvary Chapel
b.. Vineyard Movement
c.. Church of Christ, Instrumental (aka Kelleyites)
a.. Other Pietists & Holiness
a.. Apostolic Christian Church
b.. Calvary Holiness Association
c.. Church of God (Anderson)
d.. Churches of God General Conference (Winebrenner)
e.. Holiness Baptist Association
f.. Moravians
a.. Methodists
a.. African Methodist Episcopal Church
b.. African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
c.. Bible Methodist Church
d.. British Methodist Episcopal Church
e.. Chinese Methodist Church
f.. Christian Methodist Episcopal Church
g.. Congregational Methodist Church
h.. Church of the Nazarene
i.. Evangelical Church
j.. Evangelical Methodist Church
k.. Free Methodist Church
l.. Fellowship of Independent Methodist Churches
m.. Fundamental Methodist Conference, Inc.
n.. Independent Methodist Church
o.. Korean Methodist Church
p.. Methodist Church, Hong Kong
q.. Methodist Church in Ireland
r.. Methodist Church in Singapore
s.. Methodist Church of Great Britain
t.. Methodist Church of New Zealand
u.. Methodist Church of South Africa
v.. Methodist Church of Sri Lanka
w.. Primitive Methodist Church
x.. Salvation Army
y.. United Methodist Church
z.. Wesleyan Church
aa.. Wesleyan Reform Union
ab.. See also: United / Uniting churches
=Anglicans
=
a.. Episcopal Church
a.. Anglican Communion
a.. Anglican Church in Aotearoa, New Zealand and Polynesia
a.. Anglican Church of Australia
a.. Anglican Church of Canada
a.. Anglican Church of Kenya
a.. Anglican Church of Korea
a.. Anglican Church of Papua New Guinea
a.. Church in Wales
b.. Church of England
c.. Church of Ireland
d.. Church of Nigeria
e.. Church of Uganda
a.. Church of the Province of Burundi
a.. Church of the Province of Central Africa
a.. Church of the Province of Melanesia
a.. Church of the Province of Myanmar
a.. Church of the Province of Rwanda
a.. Church of the Province of South East Asia
a.. Church of the Province of Southern Africa
a.. Church of the Province of Tanzania
a.. Church of the Province of the Indian Ocean
a.. Church of the Province of the West Indies
a.. Church of the Province of West Africa
a.. Episcopal Church in Jerusalem and the Middle East
b.. Episcopal Church
c.. Episcopal Church of Cuba
a.. Episcopal Church of the Sudan
a.. Hong Kong Sheng Kung Hui
a.. Iglesia Anglicana de la Region Central America
a.. Iglesia Anglicana de México
a.. Iglesia Anglicana del Cono Sud de las Americas
a.. Igreja Episcopal do Brasil
a.. Lusitanian Church of Portugal
a.. Nippon Sei Ko Kai (Japan)
b.. Philippine Episcopal Church
a.. Scottish Episcopal Church
b.. Spanish Reformed Episcopal Church
b.. Schismatic (or "continuing") Anglican Churches
a.. African Orthodox Church
a.. African Orthodox Church of the West
a.. African Orthodox Episcopal Church
a.. American Episcopal Church
a.. Anglican Mission in America
a.. Anglican Province of Christ the King
b.. Charismatic Episcopal Church
a.. Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches
a.. Free Church of England
b.. Free Protestant Episcopal Church
a.. Reformed Episcopal Church
a.. Southern Episcopal Church
="Quakers"
=
a.. Religious Society of Friends (Quakers)
b.. United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing (Shakers)
=United / Uniting churches
=
a.. China Christian Council
b.. Church of Bangladesh
c.. Church of Pakistan
d.. Church of North India
e.. Church of South India
f.. Evangelical Church in Germany
g.. United Church of Canada
h.. United Church of Christ
i.. Uniting Church in Australia
Restorationism
a.. Restoration Movement (Stone-Campbell)
a.. Disciples of Christ
b.. Christian Church
c.. Churches of Christ
d.. International Churches of Christ (Boston Movement)
e.. See also: United / Uniting churches
a.. Millerite
a.. Sunday Adventists
a.. Advent Christian Church
a.. Church of God General Conference (Abrahamic Faith)
b.. Church of the Blessed Hope
a.. Primitive Advent Christian Church
b.. Seventh Day Adventists
a.. Branch Davidians
b.. Branch Seventh Day Adventists
a.. Creation Seventh Day Adventist Church
a.. Davidian Seventh-Day Adventist Association
a.. General Association of Davidian Seventh-Day Adventists
a.. People's Christian Church
a.. Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement
b.. Seventh-day Adventist General Conference (Seventh-day Adventist
Church)
c.. The Registry
c.. Church of God Adventists
a.. Assembly of God in Christ Jesus
a.. Associated Churches, Inc.
a.. Associates for Scriptural Knowledge
a.. Biblical Church of God
a.. Body of Christ Church of God
a.. Church of God (Anadarko)
b.. Church of God (Jesus Christ the Head) (UNICO)
c.. Church of God (O'Brien)
d.. Church of God (Philadelphia Era)
e.. Church of God (Sabbatarian)
f.. Church of God (Seventh Day, Salem, West Virginia)
g.. Church of God Evangelical Association
a.. Church of God's Truth
a.. Church of the Great God
a.. Congregation of God, Seventh Day
a.. Congregation of God
a.. Congregation of Yah
a.. Foundation for Biblical Research
a.. Foundation of Life Fellowship
a.. General Conference of the Church of God (Seventh-Day)
b.. General Council of the Churches of God
a.. Global Church of God
a.. Harmony of Life Fellowship
a.. International Church of God (ICG)
b.. Philadelphia Church of God
a.. Restoration Church of God
a.. Seventh-Day Church of God
a.. The Eternal Church of God
a.. The Pure Truth
a.. Triumph Prophetic Ministries (Church of God)
b.. Twentieth Century Church of God (Pennsylvania)
c.. Twentieth Century Church of God
a.. United Biblical Church of God
a.. United Church of God
a.. United Seventh-Day Brethren
a.. Universal Church of God
a.. World Insight International
a.. Worldwide Church of God
d.. Bible Student Groups
a.. Back to the Bible Way
a.. Christian Believers Conference
a.. Christian Bible Students Association
a.. Christian Millenial Fellowship
a.. Christian Prophets of Jehovah
a.. Dawn Bible Students Association
a.. Epiphany Bible Students Association
a.. Independent Bible Students
a.. Jehovah's Witnesses
a.. Laodicean Home Missionary Movement
a.. Layman's Home Missionary Movement
a.. Lord Our Righteousness (Life Support)
b.. Pastoral Bible Institute
a.. Philanthropic Assembly
e.. Sacred Name Groups
a.. Assemblies of YHWHHOSHUA
a.. Assemblies of Yah
a.. Assemblies of Yahvah
a.. Assemblies of Yahweh (Easton Rapids, Michigan)
b.. Assemblies of Yahweh
a.. Assemblies of the Called Out Ones of Yah
a.. Bible Study Association
a.. Church of God (Jerusalem)
b.. House of Yahweh (Abilene, Texas)
c.. House of Yahweh (Odessa, Texas)
d.. Missionary Dispensary Bible Research
a.. New Life Fellowship
a.. Scripture Research Association
a.. Workers Together with Elohim
a.. Yahweh's Assembly of Messiah
f.. British Israelism
a.. Anglo-Saxon Federation of America
a.. British-Israel-World Federation (Canada), Inc.
a.. Calvary Fellowship, Inc.
a.. Christian Conservative Churches of America
a.. Christian Identity Church
a.. Christian Research
a.. Church of Israel
a.. Church of Jesus Christ Christian (Aryan Nations)
b.. Covenant, the Sword and the Arm of the Lord
a.. House of Prayer for All People
a.. Kingdom Identity Ministries
a.. LaPorte Church of Christ
a.. Ministry of Christ Church
a.. National Association of Kingdom Evangelicals
a.. New Christian Crusade Church
a.. Prophetic Herald Ministry
a.. Remnant of Israel
a.. Tabernacle of the Phineas Priesthood
g.. Southcottites
a.. Israelite House of David
a.. Israelite House of David as Reorganized by Mary Purnell
a.. Yahweh's New Covenant Assembly
h.. Other Adventists
a.. Christadelphians
b.. Christian Nations - Eagle Warriors
a.. Church of God (Reinersten)
b.. Kingdom of God on Earth Within Man
a.. Remnant Church
a.. Restored Israel of Yahweh
a.. Shiloh True Light Church of Christ
a.. Star of Truth Foundation
a.. True Church
a.. Latter Day Saints or Mormons
a.. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints *
b.. Church of Christ (Temple Lot)
c.. Church of Jesus Christ in Zion
d.. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)
e.. Community of Christ **
f.. Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
g.. Pentecostal Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
h.. Reformed Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
i.. Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
j.. Restored Church of Jesus Christ
k.. True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days
* The largest of these churches, headquarted in Salt Lake City, Utah,
sometimes called the LDS Church; commonly, but incorrectly called the Mormon
Church
** formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
or RLDS Church
Gnosticism
a.. Bogomils
a.. Borborites
a.. Carpocratians
a.. Cathars
a.. Manichaeism
Various Nontrinitarian
a.. Arians
a.. Church of Christ, Scientist **
a.. Doukhobors
a.. Iglesia ni Cristo
a.. Magi Network *
a.. Molokan
a.. Unification Church
a.. Unitarian Universalist Christian Fellowship *
* Independent Affiliate of the Unitarian Universalist Association **
Alternatively categorized as one of the New Thought churches
New Thought churches
a.. Divine Science
a.. Religious Science
a.. Unity (Association of Unity Churches)

=========

Glad you are here, Mark.

May God lead and guide all who participate and/or lurk.

Have a great day/night! :o)

[::: vera :::]

Post by HeLovesYou
Glad you are here, Mark.
May God lead and guide all who participate and/or lurk.
Have a great day/night! :o)

A Christian would tell him to stop lying about his brothers and sisters and
to stop spamming.

I am not glad to have Mark Tindall here. He has hurt and harmed too many
people.

But, on the other hand, the difference between the wheat and the chaff is
clearly seen. People who support Mark in his evil doing - what will the Lord
say about that one day?

I do not think he will bless that... and touch Mark. Mark would not want
that, and he has made that pretty clear again and again.

You, Faye, do not help him at all, but keep him in a state of feeling save
and of being right to act like he does and to believe like he does. That is
a big sin. You lie at him. He knows that - so how could he ever take you
seriously?

I will tell you something: He is laughing about you, and I can understand
that. He is taking me much more seriously than you - does that not strike
you? You have become more and more alike to him, even against other
Christians. But you did not say you belong to my family, did you?

Go with the chaff if you prefer that. But better do not quote the Bible if
you do not take it seriously enough.

::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::

[HeLovesYou]

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by HeLovesYou
Glad you are here, Mark.
May God lead and guide all who participate and/or lurk.
Have a great day/night! :o)

A Christian would tell him to stop lying about his brothers and sisters and
to stop spamming.
I am not glad to have Mark Tindall here. He has hurt and harmed too many
people.
But, on the other hand, the difference between the wheat and the chaff is
clearly seen. People who support Mark in his evil doing - what will the Lord
say about that one day?
I do not think he will bless that... and touch Mark. Mark would not want
that, and he has made that pretty clear again and again.
You, Faye, do not help him at all, but keep him in a state of feeling save
and of being right to act like he does and to believe like he does. That is
a big sin. You lie at him. He knows that - so how could he ever take you
seriously?
I will tell you something: He is laughing about you, and I can understand
that. He is taking me much more seriously than you - does that not strike
you? You have become more and more alike to him, even against other
Christians. But you did not say you belong to my family, did you?
Go with the chaff if you prefer that. But better do not quote the Bible if
you do not take it seriously enough.
--

=========

Post by ::: vera :::
He has hurt and harmed too many
people.

Vera, you have hurt many people. Should they forgive you?

If yes,

should you forgive him?

(NLT) Matthew 6:12 and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven those
who have sinned against us.

[Mark T]

Vera, you have hurt many people. Should they forgive >you?

I have publically forgiven Vera many times and do so again.

It is time for her to move on and forget her peyyt grievances.


--
#################################################
My Testimony at
http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm

***********************************************************

'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.

#################################################
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not really true Christians at
all.' - Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
#################################################

[Diana]

Post by Mark T

Post by HeLovesYou
Vera, you have hurt many people. Should they
forgive >you?

I have publically forgiven Vera many times and do so
again.
It is time for her to move on and forget her peyyt
grievances.
--
#################################################
My Testimony at
http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm
***********************************************************
'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.
#################################################
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism"
on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an
assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not
really true Christians at
1994) p. 178
#################################################

I agree, I have publicly apologized also just to be
shot down time and time again and called names when
none of these people know me in person. Only one knows
me in person and he no longer posts here. Besides to
know me is to love me :-)

[HeLovesYou]

Post by Diana

Post by Mark T

Post by HeLovesYou
Vera, you have hurt many people. Should they
forgive >you?

I have publically forgiven Vera many times and do so
again.
It is time for her to move on and forget her peyyt
grievances.
--
#################################################
My Testimony at
http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm
***********************************************************
'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.
#################################################
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism"
on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an
assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not
really true Christians at
1994) p. 178
#################################################

I agree, I have publicly apologized also just to be
shot down time and time again and called names when
none of these people know me in person. Only one knows
me in person and he no longer posts here. Besides to
know me is to love me :-)

===========

Post by Diana
Besides to
know me is to love me :-)

Now sis I got a BIG chuckle out of that. Thanks for the chuckle.

:o) Love Faye

[Diana]

Post by HeLovesYou

Post by Diana

Post by Mark T

Post by HeLovesYou
Vera, you have hurt many people. Should they
forgive >you?

I have publically forgiven Vera many times and do
so
again.
It is time for her to move on and forget her peyyt
grievances.
--
#################################################
My Testimony at
http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm
***********************************************************
'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.
#################################################
... quoting from James Barr's book
"Fundamentalism"
on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '...
an
assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not
really true Christians at
all.' - Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday;
1994) p. 178
#################################################

I agree, I have publicly apologized also just to be
shot down time and time again and called names when
none of these people know me in person. Only one
knows
me in person and he no longer posts here. Besides to
know me is to love me :-)

===========

Post by Diana
Besides to
know me is to love me :-)

Now sis I got a BIG chuckle out of that. Thanks for
the chuckle.
:o) Love Faye

LOL I am glad it gave you a giggle. I like making
people happy. I have hurt too many and hopefully I will
turn that around and when they think of me it will give
them a warm smile in their heart.

[Mark T]

Besides to know me is to love me :-)

You better believe it. :-)

Some background on the song. It was written by Phil Spector (who is now on
murder charges and was famous for his "wall of sound" in the 60s) and
recorded by Phil in the 50s. It was made a hit in the 60s by a group he
managed and produced.

The phrase comes for the tombstone on his father's grave.

[Diana]

Post by Mark T

Besides to know me is to love me :-)

You better believe it. :-)
Some background on the song. It was written by Phil
Spector (who is now on
murder charges and was famous for his "wall of sound"
in the 60s) and
recorded by Phil in the 50s. It was made a hit in
the 60s by a group he
managed and produced.
The phrase comes for the tombstone on his father's
grave.

Wow thanks for the history. And all this time I thought
I made it up LOL

[Mark T]

Post by Diana

Post by Mark T

Besides to know me is to love me :-)

You better believe it. :-)
Some background on the song. It was written by Phil
Spector (who is now on
murder charges and was famous for his "wall of sound"
in the 60s) and
recorded by Phil in the 50s. It was made a hit in
the 60s by a group he
managed and produced.
The phrase comes for the tombstone on his father's
grave.

Wow thanks for the history. And all this time I thought
I made it up LOL

The actual phrase Spector used is "To know him is to love him" ...but it's
close enough.

[Diana]

Post by Mark T

Post by Diana

Post by Mark T

Besides to know me is to love me :-)

You better believe it. :-)
Some background on the song. It was written by
Phil
Spector (who is now on
murder charges and was famous for his "wall of
sound"
in the 60s) and
recorded by Phil in the 50s. It was made a hit in
the 60s by a group he
managed and produced.
The phrase comes for the tombstone on his father's
grave.

Wow thanks for the history. And all this time I
thought
I made it up LOL

The actual phrase Spector used is "To know him is to
love him" ...but it's
close enough.

If that is about Jesus I sure do agree ! ! ! !

[HeLovesYou]

Post by Mark T

Besides to know me is to love me :-)

You better believe it. :-)
Some background on the song. It was written by Phil Spector (who is now on
murder charges and was famous for his "wall of sound" in the 60s) and
recorded by Phil in the 50s. It was made a hit in the 60s by a group he
managed and produced.
The phrase comes for the tombstone on his father's grave.

Mark, did you get my email of a few nights ago? I thought I had your email
address correct, but I didn't hear a response back that you, in fact,
received it.

Can you let me know -- it was in regard to music.

Thank you, Mark!
Faye :o)

[Mark T]

Post by HeLovesYou
Mark, did you get my email of a few nights ago?

Looking ...looking ..looking ....no!

Post by HeLovesYou
Can you let me know -- it was in regard to music.

Send to ***@DELETEtpg.com.au
and delete the DELETE.

[pedro]

Post by HeLovesYou

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by HeLovesYou
Glad you are here, Mark.

Your glad to have the ng ruined by a madman then.

Post by HeLovesYou

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by HeLovesYou
May God lead and guide all who participate and/or lurk.
Have a great day/night! :o)

A Christian would tell him to stop lying about his brothers and sisters
and to stop spamming.

Exactly!

Post by HeLovesYou

Post by ::: vera :::
I am not glad to have Mark Tindall here. He has hurt and harmed too many
people.
But, on the other hand, the difference between the wheat and the chaff is
clearly seen. People who support Mark in his evil doing - what will the
Lord say about that one day?
I do not think he will bless that... and touch Mark. Mark would not want
that, and he has made that pretty clear again and again.
You, Faye, do not help him at all, but keep him in a state of feeling save
and of being right to act like he does and to believe like he does. That

is

Post by ::: vera :::
a big sin. You lie at him. He knows that - so how could he ever take you
seriously?
I will tell you something: He is laughing about you, and I can understand
that. He is taking me much more seriously than you - does that not strike
you? You have become more and more alike to him, even against other
Christians. But you did not say you belong to my family, did you?
Go with the chaff if you prefer that. But better do not quote the Bible if
you do not take it seriously enough.
--

=========

Post by ::: vera :::
He has hurt and harmed too many
people.

Vera, you have hurt many people. Should they forgive you?
If yes,
should you forgive him?
(NLT) Matthew 6:12 and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven those
who have sinned against us.

Yes, SINNED past tense. You can't forgive someone who is actively and
viscously attacking you. You can only forgive someone who STOPS what
they are doing wrong, and asks for your forgiveness. How does a wife
forgive an adulterous husband, if he just keeps doing that? She can only
forgive if he stops, and begs for forgiveness, and even then it would be
very difficult.



rgds,

Pete
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
'Never eat prunes when you are famished!'

[(: Lawrence Meckan :)]

Post by pedro

Post by HeLovesYou

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by HeLovesYou
Glad you are here, Mark.

Your glad to have the ng ruined by a madman then.

Post by HeLovesYou

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by HeLovesYou
May God lead and guide all who participate and/or lurk.
Have a great day/night! :o)

A Christian would tell him to stop lying about his brothers and sisters
and to stop spamming.

Exactly!

Post by HeLovesYou

Post by ::: vera :::
I am not glad to have Mark Tindall here. He has hurt and harmed too many
people.
But, on the other hand, the difference between the wheat and the chaff is
clearly seen. People who support Mark in his evil doing - what will the
Lord say about that one day?
I do not think he will bless that... and touch Mark. Mark would not want
that, and he has made that pretty clear again and again.
You, Faye, do not help him at all, but keep him in a state of feeling save
and of being right to act like he does and to believe like he does. That

is

Post by ::: vera :::
a big sin. You lie at him. He knows that - so how could he ever take you
seriously?
I will tell you something: He is laughing about you, and I can understand
that. He is taking me much more seriously than you - does that not strike
you? You have become more and more alike to him, even against other
Christians. But you did not say you belong to my family, did you?
Go with the chaff if you prefer that. But better do not quote the Bible if
you do not take it seriously enough.
--

=========

Post by ::: vera :::
He has hurt and harmed too many
people.

Vera, you have hurt many people. Should they forgive you?
If yes,
should you forgive him?
(NLT) Matthew 6:12 and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven those
who have sinned against us.

Yes, SINNED past tense.

Bad English rendering, actually..

Post by pedro
You can't forgive someone who is actively and
viscously attacking you.

Jesus did. "Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what
they are doing." Luke 23:34 (NIV)

Post by pedro
You can only forgive someone who STOPS what they are doing wrong, and asks for your forgiveness.

Stephen didn't, and they stoned him for it.

Post by pedro
How does a wife forgive an adulterous husband, if he just keeps doing that?

How else will relationships function if there isn't a way around
vengance for wrongdoing? Forgiveness and mercy is the key. Justice and
mercy go hand in hand.

Post by pedro
She can only forgive if he stops, and begs for forgiveness, and even then it would be
very difficult.

This is where the English translation suffers, and we have significant
misunderstand between the English and the Greek.

The Greek word used for "sinned against" is aphiemi.

Aphiemi is, according to the Greek Lexicon I have which includes
Strongs, a word that is spoken in the present tense..

So it's not so much "sinned against", but "as we forgive our
debtors"(KJV AV 1611)..

God does not want us to act like bigots simply because people around us
treat us badly. He wishes for His children to pass on the same mercy and
grace Jesus Christ Himself showed.

lawrence

[Ninure Saunders]

In article <***@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com>, "(: Lawrence
Meckan :)" <***@SMEEyahoo.com> wrote:

-God does not want us to act like bigots simply because people around us
-treat us badly. He wishes for His children to pass on the same mercy and
-grace Jesus Christ Himself showed.
-
-lawrence

But do you not understand....

That is when the innerrant Bible suddenly becomes errant.

Only those parts which allows one to be judhemental, hold grudges, or
actually obey and follow Jesus are "inerrant".

What an ifiot Jesus was to allow such words as the following to come out
of His mouth:

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do
good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you,
and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in
heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and
sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. ... Be ye therefore perfect,
even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." (Mt 5:44-45,48.)

"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even
'sinners' love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who
are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34
And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is
that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in
full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them
without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great,
and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the
ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
(Luke 6:32)

Let us cut the following verses out of all Bibles now!!


Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another
hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou
shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly
comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as
thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the
fulfilling of the law.' (Romans 13:8-10)

'For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love
thy neighbour as thyself.' (Galatians 5:14)

'But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering,
gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is
no law.' (Galatians 5:22,23)


Don't they blaspheme the honorable name by which you are called? However,
if you fulfill the royal law, according to the Scripture, "You shall love
your neighbor as yourself," you do well. But if you show partiality, you
commit sin, being convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall
keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he has become guilty of
all. For he who said, "Do not commit adultery," said also, "Do not commit
murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but murder, you have become a
transgressor of the law. So speak, and so do, as men who are to be judged
by a law of freedom. For judgment is without mercy to him who has shown no
mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. (James 2:7-13)

Sicj verses were surely added by "liberal false Chrisians scum".

Why can't you understand that?

(Oh, and for anyone cannot tell...that was sarcasm.)

Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian

The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk

Take my polls
http://ninure.100megsfree5.com

My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk

My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
-
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org

The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org

To send e-mail, remove nohate from address

[Mark T]

"Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know >what they are

doing." Luke 23:34 (NIV)

God, please forgive Vera, Abby, Bob and Pedro for they know not what they
are doing ... being without adequate rational resources and all that.


--
#################################################
My Testimony at
http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm

***********************************************************

'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.

#################################################
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not really true Christians at
all.' - Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
#################################################

[Griz]

Hi Pedro

Post by pedro

Post by HeLovesYou
(NLT) Matthew 6:12 and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven those
who have sinned against us.

Yes, SINNED past tense. You can't forgive someone who is actively and
viscously attacking you. You can only forgive someone who STOPS what
they are doing wrong, and asks for your forgiveness. How does a wife
forgive an adulterous husband, if he just keeps doing that? She can only
forgive if he stops, and begs for forgiveness, and even then it would be
very difficult.

I would remind people that Jesus forgave those who would kill him, while
they were actively killing him.

I would suggest that the act of forgiveness is between trespassee (the one
hurt) and God. For if it relies upon the trespassor relenting and
repenting, then the process hinges not upon God but upon the doer of evil.
The power of forgiveness then become theirs, instead of God's -- because
they could then choose to keep a wound open and unhealed for as long as they
desire.
Key in this is remembering that all sin is against God. If we take sin
personally, it will cause us to stumble repeatedly. (Yes, I know this can
be very hard, especially if a pervading and persistent hurt was produced).

In Christ, we can forgive and heal -- even if a trespassor against us should
choose to remain unrepentant. I won't deny that it certainly is easier
should they recant and repent! But forgiveness is not dependent upon anyone
else's actions. It is a Spiritual transaction between us and our Father.

Our forgiving others, doesn't rely upon them to even the smallest degree.
Our forgiving them is a function between us and God. The hardened heart of
another can NEVER confound that process -- unless we choose to take the
trespass personally.

Yours in Christ,

Griz

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by Griz
Hi Pedro

Post by pedro

Post by HeLovesYou
(NLT) Matthew 6:12 and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven

those

Post by pedro

Post by HeLovesYou
who have sinned against us.

Yes, SINNED past tense. You can't forgive someone who is actively and
viscously attacking you. You can only forgive someone who STOPS what
they are doing wrong, and asks for your forgiveness. How does a wife
forgive an adulterous husband, if he just keeps doing that? She can only
forgive if he stops, and begs for forgiveness, and even then it would be
very difficult.

I would remind people that Jesus forgave those who would kill him, while
they were actively killing him.
I would suggest that the act of forgiveness is between trespassee (the one
hurt) and God. For if it relies upon the trespassor relenting and
repenting, then the process hinges not upon God but upon the doer of evil.
The power of forgiveness then become theirs, instead of God's -- because
they could then choose to keep a wound open and unhealed for as long as they
desire.
Key in this is remembering that all sin is against God. If we take sin
personally, it will cause us to stumble repeatedly. (Yes, I know this can
be very hard, especially if a pervading and persistent hurt was produced).
In Christ, we can forgive and heal -- even if a trespassor against us should
choose to remain unrepentant. I won't deny that it certainly is easier
should they recant and repent! But forgiveness is not dependent upon anyone
else's actions. It is a Spiritual transaction between us and our Father.
Our forgiving others, doesn't rely upon them to even the smallest degree.
Our forgiving them is a function between us and God. The hardened heart of
another can NEVER confound that process -- unless we choose to take the
trespass personally.
Yours in Christ,
Griz

AMEN, Griz (and Lawrence too) AMEN!

God bless,

Feather

[Diana]

Post by Griz
Hi Pedro

Post by pedro

Post by HeLovesYou
(NLT) Matthew 6:12 and forgive us our sins, just as
we have forgiven

those

Post by pedro

Post by HeLovesYou
who have sinned against us.

Yes, SINNED past tense. You can't forgive someone who
is actively and
viscously attacking you. You can only forgive someone
who STOPS what
they are doing wrong, and asks for your forgiveness.
How does a wife
forgive an adulterous husband, if he just keeps doing
that? She can only
forgive if he stops, and begs for forgiveness, and
even then it would be
very difficult.

I would remind people that Jesus forgave those who
would kill him, while
they were actively killing him.
I would suggest that the act of forgiveness is
between trespassee (the one
hurt) and God. For if it relies upon the trespassor
relenting and
repenting, then the process hinges not upon God but
upon the doer of evil.
The power of forgiveness then become theirs, instead
of God's -- because
they could then choose to keep a wound open and
unhealed for as long as they
desire.
Key in this is remembering that all sin is against
God. If we take sin
personally, it will cause us to stumble repeatedly.
(Yes, I know this can
be very hard, especially if a pervading and
persistent hurt was produced).
In Christ, we can forgive and heal -- even if a
trespassor against us should
choose to remain unrepentant. I won't deny that it
certainly is easier
should they recant and repent! But forgiveness is
not dependent upon anyone
else's actions. It is a Spiritual transaction
between us and our Father.
Our forgiving others, doesn't rely upon them to even
the smallest degree.
Our forgiving them is a function between us and God.
The hardened heart of
another can NEVER confound that process -- unless we
choose to take the
trespass personally.
Yours in Christ,
Griz

Amen !!

[Matt]

Post by Griz
Hi Pedro

Post by pedro

Post by HeLovesYou
(NLT) Matthew 6:12 and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven

those

Post by pedro

Post by HeLovesYou
who have sinned against us.

Yes, SINNED past tense. You can't forgive someone who is actively and
viscously attacking you. You can only forgive someone who STOPS what
they are doing wrong, and asks for your forgiveness. How does a wife
forgive an adulterous husband, if he just keeps doing that? She can only
forgive if he stops, and begs for forgiveness, and even then it would be
very difficult.

I would remind people that Jesus forgave those who would kill him, while
they were actively killing him.
I would suggest that the act of forgiveness is between trespassee (the one
hurt) and God. For if it relies upon the trespassor relenting and
repenting, then the process hinges not upon God but upon the doer of evil.
The power of forgiveness then become theirs, instead of God's -- because
they could then choose to keep a wound open and unhealed for as long as they
desire.
Key in this is remembering that all sin is against God. If we take sin
personally, it will cause us to stumble repeatedly. (Yes, I know this can
be very hard, especially if a pervading and persistent hurt was produced).
In Christ, we can forgive and heal -- even if a trespassor against us should
choose to remain unrepentant. I won't deny that it certainly is easier
should they recant and repent! But forgiveness is not dependent upon anyone
else's actions. It is a Spiritual transaction between us and our Father.
Our forgiving others, doesn't rely upon them to even the smallest degree.
Our forgiving them is a function between us and God. The hardened heart of
another can NEVER confound that process -- unless we choose to take the
trespass personally.
Yours in Christ,
Griz

Hi Griz
So right

God Bless

Matt

[Diana]

Post by pedro
Yes, SINNED past tense. You can't forgive someone who
is actively and viscously attacking you. You can only
forgive someone who STOPS what they are doing wrong,
and asks for your forgiveness. How does a wife
forgive an adulterous husband, if he just keeps doing
that? She can only forgive if he stops, and begs for
forgiveness, and even then it would be very
difficult.
rgds,
Pete

I don't agree pedro. I have forgiven Vera and Jeannette
and even you for the hurt. Up until last night they
called me names continually and attacked. However I am
letting it go and letting God. Only he can give me
Peace and Love and Unspeakable Joy. Glad you are here
pedro. Thank you for your posts.

[Br@dley []]

Post by pedro

Post by HeLovesYou
Glad you are here, Mark.

Your glad to have the ng ruined by a madman then.

Vera has played a large part in the ruining as well.... guess she's mad
too eh?

<snip>

[::: vera :::]

Post by HeLovesYou

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by HeLovesYou
Glad you are here, Mark.
May God lead and guide all who participate and/or lurk.
Have a great day/night! :o)

A Christian would tell him to stop lying about his brothers and
sisters and to stop spamming.
I am not glad to have Mark Tindall here. He has hurt and harmed too
many people.
But, on the other hand, the difference between the wheat and the
chaff is clearly seen. People who support Mark in his evil doing -
what will the Lord say about that one day?
I do not think he will bless that... and touch Mark. Mark would not
want that, and he has made that pretty clear again and again.
You, Faye, do not help him at all, but keep him in a state of
feeling save and of being right to act like he does and to believe
like he does. That is a big sin. You lie at him. He knows that - so
how could he ever take you seriously?
I will tell you something: He is laughing about you, and I can
understand that. He is taking me much more seriously than you - does
that not strike you? You have become more and more alike to him,
even against other Christians. But you did not say you belong to my
family, did you?
Go with the chaff if you prefer that. But better do not quote the
Bible if you do not take it seriously enough.
--

=========

Post by ::: vera :::
He has hurt and harmed too many
people.

Vera, you have hurt many people. Should they forgive you?
If yes,
should you forgive him?
(NLT) Matthew 6:12 and forgive us our sins, just as we have forgiven
those who have sinned against us.

Who are those people, and what did I do that hurt them?

Nobody has to forgive me any hurt I did not do.

There are people you are sick with jealousy, for example. If they are hurt
by my existence, I cannot help them, neither those who I might have hurt
what I believe. Same with those who tell lies about me are hurt that I still
say they are wrong with their lies about me - like you were and are.

Now you accuse me... So go and get those people I have hurt that they can
tell ME to clear that up. If I hurt you last year, before you accused me of
being guilty for whatever: By what?

That is the way. Clear things up and talk about them, do not simply accuse
people of things without proof or reason.

No, I do not lie.

::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::

[Mark T]

I am not glad to have Mark Tindall here. He has hurt >and harmed too many

people.


I exposed your silly little Griz cult and the Porn prophet Fervent. Poor
little Vera! Get a life and move on!

I invited you back to ACC remember. Since then you have been nothing but
an ungrateful bitch.

I wrote 7/1/04 ....

################################


For all at alt.christnet.christianlife

Now that the Grizzle Guts cult has lost most of its sting the question of
how we treat former members and their victims is an issue that needs to be
discussed and addressed by all, as is our learning from the mistakes of the
past.

When the Nazis took over Germany in WW II the Lutheran church was divided
into those who supported Hitler and those who opposed him. After the war
the two sides reconciled and became one again with forgiveness on both
sides.

We cannot be like those who have victimised us. We cannot be tryrants of
another ilk or "bullies for freedom" when the war is over. We cannot change
the old regime for a new regime.

If we claim to be Christian then we should great others who claim to be
Christian as our brothers and sisters. As this unmoderated forum is for ALL
Christians there will always be denominational differences. This should not
be a bar for fellowship nor a reason to stop talking to another who claims
to be Christian. No-one should be forced to believe the same doctrine as
another Christian.

In the same manner, there can be no leaders. We are ALL equal in Christ and
members of the same body. We ALL have a part to play ... including Vera and
Griz.

I ask for others to comment on and discuss this aspect that needs to be
addressed before it arrives on our doorstep unawares.

Maybe you could read II Corinthians 3-11 as a start for these dicussions.
There has been a fight for the freedom of this newsgroup. That freedom is
all but won. What do we do now to heal the victims and help the vanquished?

Mark

#################################################


I also wrote .....10/3/04

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If we claim to be Christian then we should great others who claim to be
Christians .... We are ALL equal in Christ and members of the same body. We
ALL have a part to play ... including Vera and Griz.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Now, silly little Pedro, Vera, Abby, Bob and other useless wankers, pull
your stupid malformed heads out from your anus and stop making ridiculous
comments that are not based on truth.

--
#################################################
My Testimony at
http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm

***********************************************************

'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.

#################################################
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not really true Christians at
all.' - Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
#################################################

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by ::: vera :::

I am not glad to have Mark Tindall here. He has hurt >and harmed too many

people.
I exposed your silly little Griz cult and the Porn prophet Fervent. Poor
little Vera! Get a life and move on!

Mark,

This is - er - weird stuff.

Please don't bring this up anymore? I am frankly sick of reading the
misrepresentations of fact around Larry, too.

If he has a problem with that, that's between him and God, you know? And if
he has cast it at the foot of the cross and is battling it, isn't it much
the same as an alcoholic or a drug addict or some other addicted
personality, casting their problem at the foot of the cross and letting God
deal with them?

Same can be said for a babe in the Lord, who is learning about love and
forgiveness. It's sometimes *very* difficult when one perceives the pain as
much stronger than the idea of forgiveness, and I LOVE the way that Lawrence
and Griz have presented it (forgiveness) in their posts; JESUS FORGAVE US
WHEN WE DESERVED IT LEAST! Jesus FORGAVE so that we COULD repent.

God bless,

Feather


<snipped>

[sensi]

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by ::: vera :::

I am not glad to have Mark Tindall here. He has hurt >and harmed too

many

Post by ::: vera :::
people.
I exposed your silly little Griz cult and the Porn prophet Fervent.

Poor

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by ::: vera :::
little Vera! Get a life and move on!

Mark,
This is - er - weird stuff.
Please don't bring this up anymore? I am frankly sick of reading the
misrepresentations of fact around Larry, too.
If he has a problem with that, that's between him and God, you know? And if
he has cast it at the foot of the cross and is battling it, isn't it much
the same as an alcoholic or a drug addict or some other addicted
personality, casting their problem at the foot of the cross and letting God
deal with them?
Same can be said for a babe in the Lord, who is learning about love and
forgiveness. It's sometimes *very* difficult when one perceives the pain as
much stronger than the idea of forgiveness, and I LOVE the way that Lawrence
and Griz have presented it (forgiveness) in their posts; JESUS FORGAVE US
WHEN WE DESERVED IT LEAST! Jesus FORGAVE so that we COULD repent.
God bless,
Feather
<snipped>

I see the words posted, said very well and quite lovely,but I don't see
the asking of or the
acknowledgement that it be given as much as it needs to be received.
See, no one thinks they have done anything wrong, so why ask for
forgiveness?
The point is not about forgiving, the point is "I was right, you were wrong.
You should forgive me
I have done nothing to you so why should I forgive you......... See?
How do we fix that?

[::: vera :::]

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by ::: vera :::

I am not glad to have Mark Tindall here. He has hurt >and harmed too

many

Post by ::: vera :::
people.
I exposed your silly little Griz cult and the Porn prophet Fervent.
Poor little Vera! Get a life and move on!

Mark,
This is - er - weird stuff.
Please don't bring this up anymore? I am frankly sick of reading the
misrepresentations of fact around Larry, too.

Yes, this time you are right, Sister.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
If he has a problem with that, that's between him and God, you know?
And if he has cast it at the foot of the cross and is battling it,
isn't it much the same as an alcoholic or a drug addict or some other
addicted personality, casting their problem at the foot of the cross
and letting God deal with them?
Same can be said for a babe in the Lord, who is learning about love
and forgiveness. It's sometimes *very* difficult when one perceives
the pain as much stronger than the idea of forgiveness, and I LOVE
the way that Lawrence and Griz have presented it (forgiveness) in
their posts; JESUS FORGAVE US WHEN WE DESERVED IT LEAST! Jesus
FORGAVE so that we COULD repent.

I guess you try to tell the wrong person about Jesus. He does not want to
listen, and he has proved that very often!!!

Post by Feather Forestwalker
God bless,
Feather
<snipped>

God bless, and forgiven




::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::

[Mark T]

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by Feather Forestwalker
misrepresentations of fact around Larry, too.

Yes, this time you are right, Sister.

Would you like me to repost his false prophecies that supported the Griz
cult "vision" and "moderation" of the unmoderated ACC????

I can do so any time you wish.

Try me. ;-)

--
#################################################
My Testimony at
http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm

***********************************************************

'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.

#################################################
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not really true Christians at
all.' - Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
#################################################

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by Mark T

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by Feather Forestwalker
misrepresentations of fact around Larry, too.

Yes, this time you are right, Sister.

Would you like me to repost his false prophecies that supported the Griz
cult "vision" and "moderation" of the unmoderated ACC????
I can do so any time you wish.
Try me. ;-)

Mark,

You and I both know that Larry publicly repented of those things. Leave it
alone, OK?

WE need to forgive: ALL OF US NEED TO FORGIVE inasmuch as we have been
FORGIVEN, right?

Let it GO - remember that Newsboys song?

*I* was remarking on the other part of your statement; the word next to
*prophet* - and which I will not repeat - e-mail me privately if you are
interested in knowing why, as I won't share publicly the darkness from an
almost 20-year ago past.

God bless,

Feather

Post by Mark T
--
#################################################
My Testimony at
http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm
***********************************************************
'As rare as a Fundamentalist who loves his enemy.
#################################################
... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not really true Christians at
all.' - Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
#################################################

[Mark T]

Would you like me to repost his false prophecies that >>supported the

Griz cult "vision" and "moderation" of >>the unmoderated ACC????

You and I both know that Larry publicly repented of >those things. Leave

it alone, OK?


If Vera or Griz insist that the prophecies mean that the "vision" should be
revived then they will be used. History cannot be rewritten.

*I* was remarking on the other part of your statement

I understand. Don't fret.

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by ::: vera :::

I am not glad to have Mark Tindall here. He has hurt >and harmed too

many

Post by ::: vera :::
people.
I exposed your silly little Griz cult and the Porn prophet Fervent.
Poor little Vera! Get a life and move on!

Mark,
This is - er - weird stuff.
Please don't bring this up anymore? I am frankly sick of reading the
misrepresentations of fact around Larry, too.

Yes, this time you are right, Sister.

Hi, Vera,

It really isn't about ME being right, though, IS it? (But thank you - and
thank you for calling me "Sister".). It's really about how GOD is glorified
in all that we do. . .that's the most important factor that any of us as
Christians, can be concerned about. . .

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by Feather Forestwalker
If he has a problem with that, that's between him and God, you know?
And if he has cast it at the foot of the cross and is battling it,
isn't it much the same as an alcoholic or a drug addict or some other
addicted personality, casting their problem at the foot of the cross
and letting God deal with them?
Same can be said for a babe in the Lord, who is learning about love
and forgiveness. It's sometimes *very* difficult when one perceives
the pain as much stronger than the idea of forgiveness, and I LOVE
the way that Lawrence and Griz have presented it (forgiveness) in
their posts; JESUS FORGAVE US WHEN WE DESERVED IT LEAST! Jesus
FORGAVE so that we COULD repent.

I guess you try to tell the wrong person about Jesus. He does not want to
listen, and he has proved that very often!!!

Mark listens to me *sometimes* - and he has his own choices to make. I
cannot control him; I can only offer my views. . .and this time, regarding
the word before the word *prophet*, he was wrong. . .(you may e-mail me
privately for why I refuse to use that word, if you like).

My prayer for *you,* privately, has been that God would remove YOUR
pain, as well - I know that it goes deeper than any of us can fathom. . .so
I handed it to God in my prayers - MY pain, as well as YOUR pain - and of
course, even Mark's pain that causes him to lash out at what he wrongfully
perceives in many instances as injustices. . .

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by Feather Forestwalker
God bless,
Feather
<snipped>

God bless, and forgiven

Wow, thank you. And I forgive you, too, Vera.

God bless your heart, may it find His peace that surpasses all
understanding - not as the world gives, but as He alone can give. . .

In His Love,

Feather

Post by ::: vera :::
--

[Mark T]

Post by Feather Forestwalker
Mark listens to me *sometimes*

... and you listen to me sometimes. It balances out. ;-)

Ain't no-one perfick!

[Christine]

X-No-archive: yes

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by ::: vera :::

I am not glad to have Mark Tindall here. He has hurt >and harmed too

many

Post by ::: vera :::
people.
I exposed your silly little Griz cult and the Porn prophet Fervent.
Poor little Vera! Get a life and move on!

Mark,
This is - er - weird stuff.
Please don't bring this up anymore? I am frankly sick of reading the
misrepresentations of fact around Larry, too.

Yes, this time you are right, Sister.

Hi, Vera,
It really isn't about ME being right, though, IS it? (But thank you - and
thank you for calling me "Sister".). It's really about how GOD is glorified
in all that we do. . .that's the most important factor that any of us as
Christians, can be concerned about. . .

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by Feather Forestwalker
If he has a problem with that, that's between him and God, you know?
And if he has cast it at the foot of the cross and is battling it,
isn't it much the same as an alcoholic or a drug addict or some other
addicted personality, casting their problem at the foot of the cross
and letting God deal with them?
Same can be said for a babe in the Lord, who is learning about love
and forgiveness. It's sometimes *very* difficult when one perceives
the pain as much stronger than the idea of forgiveness, and I LOVE
the way that Lawrence and Griz have presented it (forgiveness) in
their posts; JESUS FORGAVE US WHEN WE DESERVED IT LEAST! Jesus
FORGAVE so that we COULD repent.

I guess you try to tell the wrong person about Jesus. He does not want to
listen, and he has proved that very often!!!

Mark listens to me *sometimes* - and he has his own choices to make. I
cannot control him; I can only offer my views. . .and this time, regarding
the word before the word *prophet*, he was wrong. . .(you may e-mail me
privately for why I refuse to use that word, if you like).
My prayer for *you,* privately, has been that God would remove YOUR
pain, as well - I know that it goes deeper than any of us can fathom. . .so
I handed it to God in my prayers - MY pain, as well as YOUR pain - and of
course, even Mark's pain that causes him to lash out at what he wrongfully
perceives in many instances as injustices. . .

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by Feather Forestwalker
God bless,
Feather
<snipped>

God bless, and forgiven

Wow, thank you. And I forgive you, too, Vera.
God bless your heart, may it find His peace that surpasses all
understanding - not as the world gives, but as He alone can give. . .
In His Love,
Feather

Wow!

******Gobsmacked!!***********

So now that is how its all done hey?

I'm taking notes( Dear Lord thank you for finally sending
me teachers to show me about forgiveness, maybe one day
I will finally get this whole business down then eh?)

Love,

Christine

[Amazing Grace]

Post by Feather Forestwalker

Post by ::: vera :::

I am not glad to have Mark Tindall here. He has hurt >and harmed too

many

Post by ::: vera :::
people.
I exposed your silly little Griz cult and the Porn prophet Fervent. Poor
little Vera! Get a life and move on!

Mark,
This is - er - weird stuff.
Please don't bring this up anymore? I am frankly sick of reading the
misrepresentations of fact around Larry, too.
If he has a problem with that, that's between him and God, you know? And if
he has cast it at the foot of the cross and is battling it, isn't it much
the same as an alcoholic or a drug addict or some other addicted
personality, casting their problem at the foot of the cross and letting God
deal with them?
Same can be said for a babe in the Lord, who is learning about love and
forgiveness. It's sometimes *very* difficult when one perceives the pain as
much stronger than the idea of forgiveness, and I LOVE the way that Lawrence
and Griz have presented it (forgiveness) in their posts; JESUS FORGAVE US
WHEN WE DESERVED IT LEAST! Jesus FORGAVE so that we COULD repent.
God bless,
Feather
<snipped>

Amen Feather.LOVE and FORGIVNESS just jumped off the page. God Bless,
Grace

[Mark T]

Post by Feather Forestwalker

I exposed your silly little Griz cult and the Porn >>prophet Fervent.

Poor little Vera! Get a life and >>move on!

Post by Feather Forestwalker
This is - er - weird stuff.

I know. I was there. ;-)

Post by Feather Forestwalker
Please don't bring this up anymore? I am frankly sick of >reading the

misrepresentations of fact around Larry, too.

I only brought it up for the Newbies who may think that Vera, Abby, Bob and
Pedro are telling the truth. Larry (aka Fervent, the Porn Prophet) supported
Griz's "vison" with false prophecies that werev never from God. One cannot
rewrite history. The facts are plainly available for all who Google that
time period. I won';t bring it up agin unless absolutely warranted.

Post by Feather Forestwalker
I LOVE the way that Lawrence and Griz have >presented it (forgiveness) in

their posts

I also approve of both posts. That's why I keep saying to Verta "Move on".
If Vera and her thugs want a fight I will bring up their past and expose
their rewriting of history.

I'd much rather be spending my time discussing things of consequence about
life as a Christian rather than dealing with these fools ... but sometimes
it is necessary to deal with fools.

Yes, you are also right that Vera was not there at the time of woz.
However, Vera did support the chasing away of many other Christians who were
not in her fundamentalist clique.

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by Mark T

Post by Feather Forestwalker

I exposed your silly little Griz cult and the Porn >>prophet Fervent.

Poor little Vera! Get a life and >>move on!

Post by Feather Forestwalker
This is - er - weird stuff.

I know. I was there. ;-)

Post by Feather Forestwalker
Please don't bring this up anymore? I am frankly sick of >reading the

misrepresentations of fact around Larry, too.
I only brought it up for the Newbies who may think that Vera, Abby, Bob and
Pedro are telling the truth. Larry (aka Fervent, the Porn Prophet) supported
Griz's "vison" with false prophecies that werev never from God. One cannot
rewrite history. The facts are plainly available for all who Google that
time period. I won';t bring it up agin unless absolutely warranted.

Then drop the word before the word *prophet* and change it to something
else. And Larry DID publicly repent of the false parts of those prophecies,
in case you didn't recall - and he did state that God was working on him.
Would you now leave him alone? Please?

Post by Mark T

Post by Feather Forestwalker
I LOVE the way that Lawrence and Griz have >presented it (forgiveness) in

their posts
I also approve of both posts. That's why I keep saying to Verta "Move on".
If Vera and her thugs want a fight I will bring up their past and expose
their rewriting of history.

We ALL need to move forward - leave the past in the past where it is; some
of those posts aren't even archived anymore, Mark; some of them have been
deleted, and some of them weren't archived because of that X-No-Arhive=Yes
thing as the first line of their posts (and in some cases, more obscurely in
the headers). People have a right to protect their privacy, and they also
have a right to publicly apologize - I've seen much growth from Larry on
other newsgroups. . .please, let's leave the past in the past, OK?

Post by Mark T
I'd much rather be spending my time discussing things of consequence about
life as a Christian rather than dealing with these fools ... but sometimes
it is necessary to deal with fools.

Mark- dealing with one another *IS* a part of the Christian life - and I
won't call them *fools* - I would much rather move on, wouldn't you? And if
someone else decides they aren't *ready* to move on, is it up to any of us
to bring up the past and share evil for evil? WWJD? Remember? Forgive. . .

Post by Mark T
Yes, you are also right that Vera was not there at the time of woz.

That's right. She wasn't. :)

Post by Mark T
However, Vera did support the chasing away of many other Christians who were
not in her fundamentalist clique.

Out of fear, right? Or was that concern on her part? Either way, we are all
living and learning and learning how to love.

It's sometimes the most singularly painful thing we do; learning to let go
and LOVE.

God bless,

Feather

[sensi]

Post by ::: vera :::
Go with the chaff if you prefer that. But better do not quote the Bible if
you do not take it seriously enough.
--

May I only say Vera that you have your own field to farm. You also have
chaff
and may you take it seriously.

Re: Combines and Wheat (Mt13:47-50)

As we considered the separation of the weeds from the wheat, to be
burned, and see repeated the concept of "wailing and gnashing of teeth"
(Mt13:42,50); not a whole lot is said in this conjunction about the
wheat, and it's "path" to the "granary." (vs30)

Since this week's Matthew study spoke of a "combine" let's continue
with that theme. In the US and Canada (and many other countries) where
farms exist as "thousands of acres" over the years very large equipment
has been developed to deal with the labor. The term "combine" came
about when a single machine would "combine" the tasks of "cutting,
swathing, threshing, sifting" in one operation.

sensi:
Does the mind have thousands of acres? Farmers?

When the crop is cut, it is funnelled into the "cylinder." This is a
device which spins at a very high speed, and contains "bars" which whiz
by a "beater bar" at very close range. The purpose is to "smash"
everything into tiny bits, and break the wheat kernel loose from the
husk of the head. This process is so "violent" that farmers who had
momentary lapses of carefulness have lost limbs, and sometimes their
lives, when their hand or foot has been caught in it. This cylinder/bar
combination is "adjusted" so as to separate the wheat kernels from the
chaff, without pulverizing the actual wheat kernels.

sensi:
You have both! WE all do!

In ancient times the
function of the cylinder was done by oxen "treading" the grain.
(De25:4,1Cor9:9,1Ti5:18) Paul spoke of the "sufferings of Christ" like
being "pressed out of measure, above strength; so much so that we
despaired even of life." (2cor1:5-8)

Once past the cylinder, everything is processed through the shakers. A
huge fan blows, and the sieves shake. Straw and light chaff get blown
right out the top. Other smaller items like husks, contaminants, weed
seeds, and wheat process on down through several layers of sieves.
Eventually the lighter husks, weed seeds get blown out the intermediate
layers; and the wheat, being the heaviest, passes down through all the
layers to the bottom where, hopefully, it is by itself...and gets
augered up into the hopper (storage container).

sensi:
Vera do you have any weed seeds in your mind? I know I do.

The air supply from the fan, and the sieves are all adjustable. If
there is too much wind, some of the wheat will blow out the back. If
there is not enough, some of the debris will end up in the hopper along
with the wheat. So the farmer, while getting set up for harvest, stops
periodically, looking on the ground behind the combine to see how much
wheat is ending up on the ground; and compares what he sees there, with
how "clean" the wheat in the hopper is.

Sometimes, this "balance" is such that the lighter, less-mature grains
of wheat simply cannot be accomodated, and there is no way to keep the
hopper clean, and also retain the light kernels. They must simply be
considered part of the "loss" of the harvest.

In ancient times once the ox had treaded the husks away from the straw,
on a windy day, the pile of wheat, chaff, husks would be repeatedly
tossed in the air with large "scoops." The wind would "drive the chaff"
away. (Ps1:4)

However, if the wind was strong enough, the lighter, immature wheat
would also blow away. Paul exhorts, "..no longer..be infants
(immature), tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of
doctrine.." (Eph4:14)

sensi:
We all have many infant ideas. Childish we are only by the ideas we keep.

You see what the wheat must endure before ending up in the granary? Not
only is it in peril while growing; from weeds, birds, drought, etc. But
the harvest process is also trying. Paul speaks of our works being
"revealed. For the Day shall declare it." (1Cor3:13) If you thought
that the Christian life is "sunshine and roses" and everything is
"happy as a lark" with a life of ease as you simply go to church to
"Praise the Lord" and get all "pumped up" ...think again!! EVERY KERNEL
of wheat that makes it into the granary goes through this same process.
Jesus said, "in this world you SHALL have tribulation." (Jn16:33)

sensi:
You have your own world and your own wheat and chaff to contend with.

Our wills must be broken through the cylinder as we learn, "not my will
but Yours be done." (Lk22:42) And all along the way we are blown,
shaken, dropped, shaken some more, blown on again, and fall again;
experiencing God's "discipline" of which "all" are partakers. (Heb12:8)
"..for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges every son whom
He receives." (vs6)

However, this process is not a random willy-nilly thing. The Lord
"adjusts" that cylinder and those sieves "just right." (Heb12:10)
Typically, the hired hand/s do not make such critical adjustments. The
harvest and the "profit" for the year are too much at stake. While the
hired hand will drive the combine (angels Mt13:41),

Vera is a farmer too

the Farmer,
Himself,

(13:3,18,30,37,41) makes the adjustments, and crawls around
behind to see how much is escaping out the back. Or how many kernels
were crushed by the cylinder. The Farmer is "experienced" in these
matters. He "will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able"
(1Cor10:13) because He has experienced it "in all points just as we
are" (Heb4:15) as we follow in His example. (1Pt2:21-24)

He "chastens" us "for our profit, that we might be partakers of His
holiness." (Heb12:10) Truly, it is not always "joyous." But in the end
"it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who are
exercised by it..." (vs11) Thus, we can entrust our souls to our
"Shepherd and Overseer."(1Pt2:25)




What is chaff?
Chaff is made up of glumes, hulls, unthreshed heads and pods, short straw,
leaf material, and whole or cracked kernels or seeds from cereal, oilseed
and pulse crops.**** Weed seeds******* are also a major component of chaff.
Got any?

Just a good lesson I had to learn, I'm offering to you.
http://www.a-voice.org/portions/12-15-98.htm
Love,
sensi

[Mark T]

Post by sensi
Just a good lesson I had to learn, I'm offering to you.

This is what I like about you ... your unique view. It is good to have
diversity.

[sensi]

Post by Mark T

Post by sensi
Just a good lesson I had to learn, I'm offering to you.

This is what I like about you ... your unique view. It is good to have
diversity.

Thank you, Mark. It is good!

[::: vera :::]

Post by sensi

Post by ::: vera :::
Go with the chaff if you prefer that. But better do not quote the
Bible if you do not take it seriously enough.
--

May I only say Vera that you have your own field to farm. You also
have chaff
and may you take it seriously.
Re: Combines and Wheat (Mt13:47-50)
As we considered the separation of the weeds from the wheat, to be
burned, and see repeated the concept of "wailing and gnashing of
teeth" (Mt13:42,50); not a whole lot is said in this conjunction
about the
wheat, and it's "path" to the "granary." (vs30)
Since this week's Matthew study spoke of a "combine" let's continue
with that theme. In the US and Canada (and many other countries) where
farms exist as "thousands of acres" over the years very large
equipment has been developed to deal with the labor. The term
"combine" came
about when a single machine would "combine" the tasks of "cutting,
swathing, threshing, sifting" in one operation.
Does the mind have thousands of acres? Farmers?
When the crop is cut, it is funnelled into the "cylinder." This is a
device which spins at a very high speed, and contains "bars" which whiz
by a "beater bar" at very close range. The purpose is to "smash"
everything into tiny bits, and break the wheat kernel loose from the
husk of the head. This process is so "violent" that farmers who had
momentary lapses of carefulness have lost limbs, and sometimes their
lives, when their hand or foot has been caught in it. This
cylinder/bar combination is "adjusted" so as to separate the wheat
kernels from the chaff, without pulverizing the actual wheat kernels.
You have both! WE all do!
In ancient times the
function of the cylinder was done by oxen "treading" the grain.
(De25:4,1Cor9:9,1Ti5:18) Paul spoke of the "sufferings of Christ" like
being "pressed out of measure, above strength; so much so that we
despaired even of life." (2cor1:5-8)
Once past the cylinder, everything is processed through the shakers. A
huge fan blows, and the sieves shake. Straw and light chaff get blown
right out the top. Other smaller items like husks, contaminants, weed
seeds, and wheat process on down through several layers of sieves.
Eventually the lighter husks, weed seeds get blown out the
intermediate layers; and the wheat, being the heaviest, passes down
through all the layers to the bottom where, hopefully, it is by
itself...and gets
augered up into the hopper (storage container).
Vera do you have any weed seeds in your mind? I know I do.
The air supply from the fan, and the sieves are all adjustable. If
there is too much wind, some of the wheat will blow out the back. If
there is not enough, some of the debris will end up in the hopper
along with the wheat. So the farmer, while getting set up for
harvest, stops periodically, looking on the ground behind the combine
to see how much wheat is ending up on the ground; and compares what
he sees there, with how "clean" the wheat in the hopper is.
Sometimes, this "balance" is such that the lighter, less-mature grains
of wheat simply cannot be accomodated, and there is no way to keep the
hopper clean, and also retain the light kernels. They must simply be
considered part of the "loss" of the harvest.
In ancient times once the ox had treaded the husks away from the straw,
on a windy day, the pile of wheat, chaff, husks would be repeatedly
tossed in the air with large "scoops." The wind would "drive the
chaff" away. (Ps1:4)
However, if the wind was strong enough, the lighter, immature wheat
would also blow away. Paul exhorts, "..no longer..be infants
(immature), tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of
doctrine.." (Eph4:14)
We all have many infant ideas. Childish we are only by the ideas we keep.
You see what the wheat must endure before ending up in the granary?
Not only is it in peril while growing; from weeds, birds, drought,
etc. But the harvest process is also trying. Paul speaks of our works
being "revealed. For the Day shall declare it." (1Cor3:13) If you
thought
that the Christian life is "sunshine and roses" and everything is
"happy as a lark" with a life of ease as you simply go to church to
"Praise the Lord" and get all "pumped up" ...think again!! EVERY KERNEL
of wheat that makes it into the granary goes through this same
process. Jesus said, "in this world you SHALL have tribulation."
(Jn16:33)
You have your own world and your own wheat and chaff to contend with.
Our wills must be broken through the cylinder as we learn, "not my
will but Yours be done." (Lk22:42) And all along the way we are blown,
shaken, dropped, shaken some more, blown on again, and fall again;
experiencing God's "discipline" of which "all" are partakers.
(Heb12:8) "..for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges
every son whom
He receives." (vs6)
However, this process is not a random willy-nilly thing. The Lord
"adjusts" that cylinder and those sieves "just right." (Heb12:10)
Typically, the hired hand/s do not make such critical adjustments. The
harvest and the "profit" for the year are too much at stake. While the
hired hand will drive the combine (angels Mt13:41),
Vera is a farmer too
the Farmer,
Himself,
(13:3,18,30,37,41) makes the adjustments, and crawls around
behind to see how much is escaping out the back. Or how many kernels
were crushed by the cylinder. The Farmer is "experienced" in these
matters. He "will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able"
(1Cor10:13) because He has experienced it "in all points just as we
are" (Heb4:15) as we follow in His example. (1Pt2:21-24)
He "chastens" us "for our profit, that we might be partakers of His
holiness." (Heb12:10) Truly, it is not always "joyous." But in the end
"it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who are
exercised by it..." (vs11) Thus, we can entrust our souls to our
"Shepherd and Overseer."(1Pt2:25)
What is chaff?
Chaff is made up of glumes, hulls, unthreshed heads and pods, short
straw, leaf material, and whole or cracked kernels or seeds from
cereal, oilseed and pulse crops.**** Weed seeds******* are also a
major component of chaff. Got any?
Just a good lesson I had to learn, I'm offering to you.
http://www.a-voice.org/portions/12-15-98.htm
Love,
sensi
<> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power? Their
seed is established in their sight with them, and their offspring before
their eyes. Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon
them. Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth
not her calf. They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their
children dance. They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of
the organ. They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the
grave. Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the
knowledge of thy ways. What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and
what profit should we have, if we pray unto him? Lo, their good is not in
their hand: the counsel of the wicked is far from me. How oft is the candle
of the wicked put out! and how oft cometh their destruction upon them! God
distributeth sorrows in his anger. They are as stubble before the wind, and
as chaff that the storm carrieth away. God layeth up his iniquity for his
children: he rewardeth him, and he shall know it. His eyes shall see his
destruction, and he shall drink of the wrath of the Almighty. For what
pleasure hath he in his house after him, when the number of his months is
cut off in the midst? Shall any teach God knowledge? seeing he judgeth those
that are high.

(Job 21:7-22 KJV)

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><



::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::

[sensi]

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by sensi

Post by ::: vera :::
Go with the chaff if you prefer that. But better do not quote the
Bible if you do not take it seriously enough.
--

May I only say Vera that you have your own field to farm. You also
have chaff
and may you take it seriously.
Re: Combines and Wheat (Mt13:47-50)
As we considered the separation of the weeds from the wheat, to be
burned, and see repeated the concept of "wailing and gnashing of
teeth" (Mt13:42,50); not a whole lot is said in this conjunction
about the
wheat, and it's "path" to the "granary." (vs30)
Since this week's Matthew study spoke of a "combine" let's continue
with that theme. In the US and Canada (and many other countries) where
farms exist as "thousands of acres" over the years very large
equipment has been developed to deal with the labor. The term
"combine" came
about when a single machine would "combine" the tasks of "cutting,
swathing, threshing, sifting" in one operation.
Does the mind have thousands of acres? Farmers?
When the crop is cut, it is funnelled into the "cylinder." This is a
device which spins at a very high speed, and contains "bars" which whiz
by a "beater bar" at very close range. The purpose is to "smash"
everything into tiny bits, and break the wheat kernel loose from the
husk of the head. This process is so "violent" that farmers who had
momentary lapses of carefulness have lost limbs, and sometimes their
lives, when their hand or foot has been caught in it. This
cylinder/bar combination is "adjusted" so as to separate the wheat
kernels from the chaff, without pulverizing the actual wheat kernels.
You have both! WE all do!
In ancient times the
function of the cylinder was done by oxen "treading" the grain.
(De25:4,1Cor9:9,1Ti5:18) Paul spoke of the "sufferings of Christ" like
being "pressed out of measure, above strength; so much so that we
despaired even of life." (2cor1:5-8)
Once past the cylinder, everything is processed through the shakers. A
huge fan blows, and the sieves shake. Straw and light chaff get blown
right out the top. Other smaller items like husks, contaminants, weed
seeds, and wheat process on down through several layers of sieves.
Eventually the lighter husks, weed seeds get blown out the
intermediate layers; and the wheat, being the heaviest, passes down
through all the layers to the bottom where, hopefully, it is by
itself...and gets
augered up into the hopper (storage container).
Vera do you have any weed seeds in your mind? I know I do.
The air supply from the fan, and the sieves are all adjustable. If
there is too much wind, some of the wheat will blow out the back. If
there is not enough, some of the debris will end up in the hopper
along with the wheat. So the farmer, while getting set up for
harvest, stops periodically, looking on the ground behind the combine
to see how much wheat is ending up on the ground; and compares what
he sees there, with how "clean" the wheat in the hopper is.
Sometimes, this "balance" is such that the lighter, less-mature grains
of wheat simply cannot be accomodated, and there is no way to keep the
hopper clean, and also retain the light kernels. They must simply be
considered part of the "loss" of the harvest.
In ancient times once the ox had treaded the husks away from the straw,
on a windy day, the pile of wheat, chaff, husks would be repeatedly
tossed in the air with large "scoops." The wind would "drive the
chaff" away. (Ps1:4)
However, if the wind was strong enough, the lighter, immature wheat
would also blow away. Paul exhorts, "..no longer..be infants
(immature), tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of
doctrine.." (Eph4:14)
We all have many infant ideas. Childish we are only by the ideas we keep.
You see what the wheat must endure before ending up in the granary?
Not only is it in peril while growing; from weeds, birds, drought,
etc. But the harvest process is also trying. Paul speaks of our works
being "revealed. For the Day shall declare it." (1Cor3:13) If you
thought
that the Christian life is "sunshine and roses" and everything is
"happy as a lark" with a life of ease as you simply go to church to
"Praise the Lord" and get all "pumped up" ...think again!! EVERY KERNEL
of wheat that makes it into the granary goes through this same
process. Jesus said, "in this world you SHALL have tribulation."
(Jn16:33)
You have your own world and your own wheat and chaff to contend with.
Our wills must be broken through the cylinder as we learn, "not my
will but Yours be done." (Lk22:42) And all along the way we are blown,
shaken, dropped, shaken some more, blown on again, and fall again;
experiencing God's "discipline" of which "all" are partakers.
(Heb12:8) "..for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges
every son whom
He receives." (vs6)
However, this process is not a random willy-nilly thing. The Lord
"adjusts" that cylinder and those sieves "just right." (Heb12:10)
Typically, the hired hand/s do not make such critical adjustments. The
harvest and the "profit" for the year are too much at stake. While the
hired hand will drive the combine (angels Mt13:41),
Vera is a farmer too
the Farmer,
Himself,
(13:3,18,30,37,41) makes the adjustments, and crawls around
behind to see how much is escaping out the back. Or how many kernels
were crushed by the cylinder. The Farmer is "experienced" in these
matters. He "will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able"
(1Cor10:13) because He has experienced it "in all points just as we
are" (Heb4:15) as we follow in His example. (1Pt2:21-24)
He "chastens" us "for our profit, that we might be partakers of His
holiness." (Heb12:10) Truly, it is not always "joyous." But in the end
"it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who are
exercised by it..." (vs11) Thus, we can entrust our souls to our
"Shepherd and Overseer."(1Pt2:25)
What is chaff?
Chaff is made up of glumes, hulls, unthreshed heads and pods, short
straw, leaf material, and whole or cracked kernels or seeds from
cereal, oilseed and pulse crops.**** Weed seeds******* are also a
major component of chaff. Got any?
Just a good lesson I had to learn, I'm offering to you.
http://www.a-voice.org/portions/12-15-98.htm
Love,
sensi
<> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power? Their
seed is established in their sight with them, and their offspring before
their eyes. Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon
them. Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth
not her calf. They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their
children dance. They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of
the organ. They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the
grave. Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the
knowledge of thy ways. What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and
what profit should we have, if we pray unto him? Lo, their good is not in
their hand: the counsel of the wicked is far from me. How oft is the candle
of the wicked put out! and how oft cometh their destruction upon them! God
distributeth sorrows in his anger. They are as stubble before the wind, and
as chaff that the storm carrieth away. God layeth up his iniquity for his
children: he rewardeth him, and he shall know it. His eyes shall see his
destruction, and he shall drink of the wrath of the Almighty. For what
pleasure hath he in his house after him, when the number of his months is
cut off in the midst? Shall any teach God knowledge? seeing he judgeth those
that are high.
(Job 21:7-22 KJV)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
--

sensi:
Vera, my dear when reading scriptures look within thine own self and do an
honest
inventory of your own thoughts & deeds..... Ahem, Ahem "chaff."
Try this as an excercise. That very first sentence in the verse you
offered.......

Where do the wicked live?
Now take stock of your inventory of thoughts,ideas and actions.
Remember you are responsible for your thoughts and actions, not mine or
anyone elses.

Now that thought that just went through your mind....... Was it godly? Was
it wicked?
Are you pure in every thought and deed?...... I'm considering that it takes
times to really
study and do self-examination but if one is always thinking they & them are
other people
and not your own they's and them's then that could create a major problem
with other people..
I realize nobody is perfect and you know why? Cause you look at things like
"them"
as being about other people and not your own "thems." I'm not perfect
either. I have
some of them too...... We all do...... So please just consider it is your
duty to make changes
but only within your own thems and theys. Look forward to the day that
......"them and they's are
gone and you are "One" and perfect before God.
Just something to consider.

Love,
sensi

ps
And if you would like we could go over each sentence and see if we both have
some of those ways
and just discuss it if you would like to do that.

[::: vera :::]

Post by sensi

Post by ::: vera :::
Go with the chaff if you prefer that. But better do not quote the
Bible if you do not take it seriously enough.
--

May I only say Vera that you have your own field to farm. You also
have chaff
and may you take it seriously.
Re: Combines and Wheat (Mt13:47-50)
As we considered the separation of the weeds from the wheat, to be
burned, and see repeated the concept of "wailing and gnashing of
teeth" (Mt13:42,50); not a whole lot is said in this conjunction
about the
wheat, and it's "path" to the "granary." (vs30)
Since this week's Matthew study spoke of a "combine" let's continue
with that theme. In the US and Canada (and many other countries) where
farms exist as "thousands of acres" over the years very large
equipment has been developed to deal with the labor. The term
"combine" came
about when a single machine would "combine" the tasks of "cutting,
swathing, threshing, sifting" in one operation.
Does the mind have thousands of acres? Farmers?
When the crop is cut, it is funnelled into the "cylinder." This is a
device which spins at a very high speed, and contains "bars" which whiz
by a "beater bar" at very close range. The purpose is to "smash"
everything into tiny bits, and break the wheat kernel loose from the
husk of the head. This process is so "violent" that farmers who had
momentary lapses of carefulness have lost limbs, and sometimes their
lives, when their hand or foot has been caught in it. This
cylinder/bar combination is "adjusted" so as to separate the wheat
kernels from the chaff, without pulverizing the actual wheat kernels.
You have both! WE all do!
In ancient times the
function of the cylinder was done by oxen "treading" the grain.
(De25:4,1Cor9:9,1Ti5:18) Paul spoke of the "sufferings of Christ" like
being "pressed out of measure, above strength; so much so that we
despaired even of life." (2cor1:5-8)
Once past the cylinder, everything is processed through the shakers. A
huge fan blows, and the sieves shake. Straw and light chaff get blown
right out the top. Other smaller items like husks, contaminants, weed
seeds, and wheat process on down through several layers of sieves.
Eventually the lighter husks, weed seeds get blown out the
intermediate layers; and the wheat, being the heaviest, passes down
through all the layers to the bottom where, hopefully, it is by
itself...and gets
augered up into the hopper (storage container).
Vera do you have any weed seeds in your mind? I know I do.
The air supply from the fan, and the sieves are all adjustable. If
there is too much wind, some of the wheat will blow out the back. If
there is not enough, some of the debris will end up in the hopper
along with the wheat. So the farmer, while getting set up for
harvest, stops periodically, looking on the ground behind the combine
to see how much wheat is ending up on the ground; and compares what
he sees there, with how "clean" the wheat in the hopper is.
Sometimes, this "balance" is such that the lighter, less-mature grains
of wheat simply cannot be accomodated, and there is no way to keep the
hopper clean, and also retain the light kernels. They must simply be
considered part of the "loss" of the harvest.
In ancient times once the ox had treaded the husks away from the straw,
on a windy day, the pile of wheat, chaff, husks would be repeatedly
tossed in the air with large "scoops." The wind would "drive the
chaff" away. (Ps1:4)
However, if the wind was strong enough, the lighter, immature wheat
would also blow away. Paul exhorts, "..no longer..be infants
(immature), tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of
doctrine.." (Eph4:14)
We all have many infant ideas. Childish we are only by the ideas we keep.
You see what the wheat must endure before ending up in the granary?
Not only is it in peril while growing; from weeds, birds, drought,
etc. But the harvest process is also trying. Paul speaks of our works
being "revealed. For the Day shall declare it." (1Cor3:13) If you
thought
that the Christian life is "sunshine and roses" and everything is
"happy as a lark" with a life of ease as you simply go to church to
"Praise the Lord" and get all "pumped up" ...think again!! EVERY KERNEL
of wheat that makes it into the granary goes through this same
process. Jesus said, "in this world you SHALL have tribulation."
(Jn16:33)
You have your own world and your own wheat and chaff to contend with.
Our wills must be broken through the cylinder as we learn, "not my
will but Yours be done." (Lk22:42) And all along the way we are blown,
shaken, dropped, shaken some more, blown on again, and fall again;
experiencing God's "discipline" of which "all" are partakers.
(Heb12:8) "..for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges
every son whom
He receives." (vs6)
However, this process is not a random willy-nilly thing. The Lord
"adjusts" that cylinder and those sieves "just right." (Heb12:10)
Typically, the hired hand/s do not make such critical adjustments. The
harvest and the "profit" for the year are too much at stake. While the
hired hand will drive the combine (angels Mt13:41),
Vera is a farmer too
the Farmer,
Himself,
(13:3,18,30,37,41) makes the adjustments, and crawls around
behind to see how much is escaping out the back. Or how many kernels
were crushed by the cylinder. The Farmer is "experienced" in these
matters. He "will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able"
(1Cor10:13) because He has experienced it "in all points just as we
are" (Heb4:15) as we follow in His example. (1Pt2:21-24)
He "chastens" us "for our profit, that we might be partakers of His
holiness." (Heb12:10) Truly, it is not always "joyous." But in the end
"it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who are
exercised by it..." (vs11) Thus, we can entrust our souls to our
"Shepherd and Overseer."(1Pt2:25)
What is chaff?
Chaff is made up of glumes, hulls, unthreshed heads and pods, short
straw, leaf material, and whole or cracked kernels or seeds from
cereal, oilseed and pulse crops.**** Weed seeds******* are also a
major component of chaff. Got any?
Just a good lesson I had to learn, I'm offering to you.
http://www.a-voice.org/portions/12-15-98.htm
Love,
sensi
<> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the
chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up
as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and
despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.

(Isaiah 5:24 KJV)

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><



::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::

[sensi]

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by sensi

Post by ::: vera :::
Go with the chaff if you prefer that. But better do not quote the
Bible if you do not take it seriously enough.
--

May I only say Vera that you have your own field to farm. You also
have chaff
and may you take it seriously.
Re: Combines and Wheat (Mt13:47-50)
As we considered the separation of the weeds from the wheat, to be
burned, and see repeated the concept of "wailing and gnashing of
teeth" (Mt13:42,50); not a whole lot is said in this conjunction
about the
wheat, and it's "path" to the "granary." (vs30)
Since this week's Matthew study spoke of a "combine" let's continue
with that theme. In the US and Canada (and many other countries) where
farms exist as "thousands of acres" over the years very large
equipment has been developed to deal with the labor. The term
"combine" came
about when a single machine would "combine" the tasks of "cutting,
swathing, threshing, sifting" in one operation.
Does the mind have thousands of acres? Farmers?
When the crop is cut, it is funnelled into the "cylinder." This is a
device which spins at a very high speed, and contains "bars" which whiz
by a "beater bar" at very close range. The purpose is to "smash"
everything into tiny bits, and break the wheat kernel loose from the
husk of the head. This process is so "violent" that farmers who had
momentary lapses of carefulness have lost limbs, and sometimes their
lives, when their hand or foot has been caught in it. This
cylinder/bar combination is "adjusted" so as to separate the wheat
kernels from the chaff, without pulverizing the actual wheat kernels.
You have both! WE all do!
In ancient times the
function of the cylinder was done by oxen "treading" the grain.
(De25:4,1Cor9:9,1Ti5:18) Paul spoke of the "sufferings of Christ" like
being "pressed out of measure, above strength; so much so that we
despaired even of life." (2cor1:5-8)
Once past the cylinder, everything is processed through the shakers. A
huge fan blows, and the sieves shake. Straw and light chaff get blown
right out the top. Other smaller items like husks, contaminants, weed
seeds, and wheat process on down through several layers of sieves.
Eventually the lighter husks, weed seeds get blown out the
intermediate layers; and the wheat, being the heaviest, passes down
through all the layers to the bottom where, hopefully, it is by
itself...and gets
augered up into the hopper (storage container).
Vera do you have any weed seeds in your mind? I know I do.
The air supply from the fan, and the sieves are all adjustable. If
there is too much wind, some of the wheat will blow out the back. If
there is not enough, some of the debris will end up in the hopper
along with the wheat. So the farmer, while getting set up for
harvest, stops periodically, looking on the ground behind the combine
to see how much wheat is ending up on the ground; and compares what
he sees there, with how "clean" the wheat in the hopper is.
Sometimes, this "balance" is such that the lighter, less-mature grains
of wheat simply cannot be accomodated, and there is no way to keep the
hopper clean, and also retain the light kernels. They must simply be
considered part of the "loss" of the harvest.
In ancient times once the ox had treaded the husks away from the straw,
on a windy day, the pile of wheat, chaff, husks would be repeatedly
tossed in the air with large "scoops." The wind would "drive the
chaff" away. (Ps1:4)
However, if the wind was strong enough, the lighter, immature wheat
would also blow away. Paul exhorts, "..no longer..be infants
(immature), tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of
doctrine.." (Eph4:14)
We all have many infant ideas. Childish we are only by the ideas we keep.
You see what the wheat must endure before ending up in the granary?
Not only is it in peril while growing; from weeds, birds, drought,
etc. But the harvest process is also trying. Paul speaks of our works
being "revealed. For the Day shall declare it." (1Cor3:13) If you
thought
that the Christian life is "sunshine and roses" and everything is
"happy as a lark" with a life of ease as you simply go to church to
"Praise the Lord" and get all "pumped up" ...think again!! EVERY KERNEL
of wheat that makes it into the granary goes through this same
process. Jesus said, "in this world you SHALL have tribulation."
(Jn16:33)
You have your own world and your own wheat and chaff to contend with.
Our wills must be broken through the cylinder as we learn, "not my
will but Yours be done." (Lk22:42) And all along the way we are blown,
shaken, dropped, shaken some more, blown on again, and fall again;
experiencing God's "discipline" of which "all" are partakers.
(Heb12:8) "..for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges
every son whom
He receives." (vs6)
However, this process is not a random willy-nilly thing. The Lord
"adjusts" that cylinder and those sieves "just right." (Heb12:10)
Typically, the hired hand/s do not make such critical adjustments. The
harvest and the "profit" for the year are too much at stake. While the
hired hand will drive the combine (angels Mt13:41),
Vera is a farmer too
the Farmer,
Himself,
(13:3,18,30,37,41) makes the adjustments, and crawls around
behind to see how much is escaping out the back. Or how many kernels
were crushed by the cylinder. The Farmer is "experienced" in these
matters. He "will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able"
(1Cor10:13) because He has experienced it "in all points just as we
are" (Heb4:15) as we follow in His example. (1Pt2:21-24)
He "chastens" us "for our profit, that we might be partakers of His
holiness." (Heb12:10) Truly, it is not always "joyous." But in the end
"it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who are
exercised by it..." (vs11) Thus, we can entrust our souls to our
"Shepherd and Overseer."(1Pt2:25)
What is chaff?
Chaff is made up of glumes, hulls, unthreshed heads and pods, short
straw, leaf material, and whole or cracked kernels or seeds from
cereal, oilseed and pulse crops.**** Weed seeds******* are also a
major component of chaff. Got any?
Just a good lesson I had to learn, I'm offering to you.
http://www.a-voice.org/portions/12-15-98.htm
Love,
sensi
<> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the
chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up
as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and
despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
(Isaiah 5:24 KJV)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><

May I ask you what happens when you have a very strong desire that may be
considered ungodly?
What happens with that desire known as chaff? What if you have more than
one ungodly desire?
If just only one single idea that you may have is ungodly then therefore
this verse from Isaiah applies
to that idea that lives in your heart and mind. IF you have more than one
then you can apply the plural
as [they.]
Isaiah is one of very favorite books. It was one of the first
books that I learned to read knowing that I had work to do on me just as
Isaiah had work to do on
himself.
I'm not trying to be rude or disagreeable but just realistic. I hope you
understand

Love,
sensi

Post by ::: vera :::
--

[::: vera :::]

Post by sensi

Post by ::: vera :::
Go with the chaff if you prefer that. But better do not quote the
Bible if you do not take it seriously enough.
--

May I only say Vera that you have your own field to farm. You also
have chaff
and may you take it seriously.
Re: Combines and Wheat (Mt13:47-50)
As we considered the separation of the weeds from the wheat, to be
burned, and see repeated the concept of "wailing and gnashing of
teeth" (Mt13:42,50); not a whole lot is said in this conjunction
about the
wheat, and it's "path" to the "granary." (vs30)
Since this week's Matthew study spoke of a "combine" let's continue
with that theme. In the US and Canada (and many other countries) where
farms exist as "thousands of acres" over the years very large
equipment has been developed to deal with the labor. The term
"combine" came
about when a single machine would "combine" the tasks of "cutting,
swathing, threshing, sifting" in one operation.
Does the mind have thousands of acres? Farmers?
When the crop is cut, it is funnelled into the "cylinder." This is a
device which spins at a very high speed, and contains "bars" which whiz
by a "beater bar" at very close range. The purpose is to "smash"
everything into tiny bits, and break the wheat kernel loose from the
husk of the head. This process is so "violent" that farmers who had
momentary lapses of carefulness have lost limbs, and sometimes their
lives, when their hand or foot has been caught in it. This
cylinder/bar combination is "adjusted" so as to separate the wheat
kernels from the chaff, without pulverizing the actual wheat kernels.
You have both! WE all do!
In ancient times the
function of the cylinder was done by oxen "treading" the grain.
(De25:4,1Cor9:9,1Ti5:18) Paul spoke of the "sufferings of Christ" like
being "pressed out of measure, above strength; so much so that we
despaired even of life." (2cor1:5-8)
Once past the cylinder, everything is processed through the shakers. A
huge fan blows, and the sieves shake. Straw and light chaff get blown
right out the top. Other smaller items like husks, contaminants, weed
seeds, and wheat process on down through several layers of sieves.
Eventually the lighter husks, weed seeds get blown out the
intermediate layers; and the wheat, being the heaviest, passes down
through all the layers to the bottom where, hopefully, it is by
itself...and gets
augered up into the hopper (storage container).
Vera do you have any weed seeds in your mind? I know I do.
The air supply from the fan, and the sieves are all adjustable. If
there is too much wind, some of the wheat will blow out the back. If
there is not enough, some of the debris will end up in the hopper
along with the wheat. So the farmer, while getting set up for
harvest, stops periodically, looking on the ground behind the combine
to see how much wheat is ending up on the ground; and compares what
he sees there, with how "clean" the wheat in the hopper is.
Sometimes, this "balance" is such that the lighter, less-mature grains
of wheat simply cannot be accomodated, and there is no way to keep the
hopper clean, and also retain the light kernels. They must simply be
considered part of the "loss" of the harvest.
In ancient times once the ox had treaded the husks away from the straw,
on a windy day, the pile of wheat, chaff, husks would be repeatedly
tossed in the air with large "scoops." The wind would "drive the
chaff" away. (Ps1:4)
However, if the wind was strong enough, the lighter, immature wheat
would also blow away. Paul exhorts, "..no longer..be infants
(immature), tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of
doctrine.." (Eph4:14)
We all have many infant ideas. Childish we are only by the ideas we keep.
You see what the wheat must endure before ending up in the granary?
Not only is it in peril while growing; from weeds, birds, drought,
etc. But the harvest process is also trying. Paul speaks of our works
being "revealed. For the Day shall declare it." (1Cor3:13) If you
thought
that the Christian life is "sunshine and roses" and everything is
"happy as a lark" with a life of ease as you simply go to church to
"Praise the Lord" and get all "pumped up" ...think again!! EVERY KERNEL
of wheat that makes it into the granary goes through this same
process. Jesus said, "in this world you SHALL have tribulation."
(Jn16:33)
You have your own world and your own wheat and chaff to contend with.
Our wills must be broken through the cylinder as we learn, "not my
will but Yours be done." (Lk22:42) And all along the way we are blown,
shaken, dropped, shaken some more, blown on again, and fall again;
experiencing God's "discipline" of which "all" are partakers.
(Heb12:8) "..for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges
every son whom
He receives." (vs6)
However, this process is not a random willy-nilly thing. The Lord
"adjusts" that cylinder and those sieves "just right." (Heb12:10)
Typically, the hired hand/s do not make such critical adjustments. The
harvest and the "profit" for the year are too much at stake. While the
hired hand will drive the combine (angels Mt13:41),
Vera is a farmer too
the Farmer,
Himself,
(13:3,18,30,37,41) makes the adjustments, and crawls around
behind to see how much is escaping out the back. Or how many kernels
were crushed by the cylinder. The Farmer is "experienced" in these
matters. He "will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able"
(1Cor10:13) because He has experienced it "in all points just as we
are" (Heb4:15) as we follow in His example. (1Pt2:21-24)
He "chastens" us "for our profit, that we might be partakers of His
holiness." (Heb12:10) Truly, it is not always "joyous." But in the end
"it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who are
exercised by it..." (vs11) Thus, we can entrust our souls to our
"Shepherd and Overseer."(1Pt2:25)
What is chaff?
Chaff is made up of glumes, hulls, unthreshed heads and pods, short
straw, leaf material, and whole or cracked kernels or seeds from
cereal, oilseed and pulse crops.**** Weed seeds******* are also a
major component of chaff. Got any?
Just a good lesson I had to learn, I'm offering to you.
http://www.a-voice.org/portions/12-15-98.htm
Love,
sensi
<> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song
of fools.

(Ecclesiastes 7:5 KJV)

<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><



::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::

[sensi]

Post by ::: vera :::

Post by sensi

Post by ::: vera :::
Go with the chaff if you prefer that. But better do not quote the
Bible if you do not take it seriously enough.
--

May I only say Vera that you have your own field to farm. You also
have chaff
and may you take it seriously.
Re: Combines and Wheat (Mt13:47-50)
As we considered the separation of the weeds from the wheat, to be
burned, and see repeated the concept of "wailing and gnashing of
teeth" (Mt13:42,50); not a whole lot is said in this conjunction
about the
wheat, and it's "path" to the "granary." (vs30)
Since this week's Matthew study spoke of a "combine" let's continue
with that theme. In the US and Canada (and many other countries) where
farms exist as "thousands of acres" over the years very large
equipment has been developed to deal with the labor. The term
"combine" came
about when a single machine would "combine" the tasks of "cutting,
swathing, threshing, sifting" in one operation.
Does the mind have thousands of acres? Farmers?
When the crop is cut, it is funnelled into the "cylinder." This is a
device which spins at a very high speed, and contains "bars" which whiz
by a "beater bar" at very close range. The purpose is to "smash"
everything into tiny bits, and break the wheat kernel loose from the
husk of the head. This process is so "violent" that farmers who had
momentary lapses of carefulness have lost limbs, and sometimes their
lives, when their hand or foot has been caught in it. This
cylinder/bar combination is "adjusted" so as to separate the wheat
kernels from the chaff, without pulverizing the actual wheat kernels.
You have both! WE all do!
In ancient times the
function of the cylinder was done by oxen "treading" the grain.
(De25:4,1Cor9:9,1Ti5:18) Paul spoke of the "sufferings of Christ" like
being "pressed out of measure, above strength; so much so that we
despaired even of life." (2cor1:5-8)
Once past the cylinder, everything is processed through the shakers. A
huge fan blows, and the sieves shake. Straw and light chaff get blown
right out the top. Other smaller items like husks, contaminants, weed
seeds, and wheat process on down through several layers of sieves.
Eventually the lighter husks, weed seeds get blown out the
intermediate layers; and the wheat, being the heaviest, passes down
through all the layers to the bottom where, hopefully, it is by
itself...and gets
augered up into the hopper (storage container).
Vera do you have any weed seeds in your mind? I know I do.
The air supply from the fan, and the sieves are all adjustable. If
there is too much wind, some of the wheat will blow out the back. If
there is not enough, some of the debris will end up in the hopper
along with the wheat. So the farmer, while getting set up for
harvest, stops periodically, looking on the ground behind the combine
to see how much wheat is ending up on the ground; and compares what
he sees there, with how "clean" the wheat in the hopper is.
Sometimes, this "balance" is such that the lighter, less-mature grains
of wheat simply cannot be accomodated, and there is no way to keep the
hopper clean, and also retain the light kernels. They must simply be
considered part of the "loss" of the harvest.
In ancient times once the ox had treaded the husks away from the straw,
on a windy day, the pile of wheat, chaff, husks would be repeatedly
tossed in the air with large "scoops." The wind would "drive the
chaff" away. (Ps1:4)
However, if the wind was strong enough, the lighter, immature wheat
would also blow away. Paul exhorts, "..no longer..be infants
(immature), tossed to and fro and carried about by every wind of
doctrine.." (Eph4:14)
We all have many infant ideas. Childish we are only by the ideas we keep.
You see what the wheat must endure before ending up in the granary?
Not only is it in peril while growing; from weeds, birds, drought,
etc. But the harvest process is also trying. Paul speaks of our works
being "revealed. For the Day shall declare it." (1Cor3:13) If you
thought
that the Christian life is "sunshine and roses" and everything is
"happy as a lark" with a life of ease as you simply go to church to
"Praise the Lord" and get all "pumped up" ...think again!! EVERY KERNEL
of wheat that makes it into the granary goes through this same
process. Jesus said, "in this world you SHALL have tribulation."
(Jn16:33)
You have your own world and your own wheat and chaff to contend with.
Our wills must be broken through the cylinder as we learn, "not my
will but Yours be done." (Lk22:42) And all along the way we are blown,
shaken, dropped, shaken some more, blown on again, and fall again;
experiencing God's "discipline" of which "all" are partakers.
(Heb12:8) "..for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges
every son whom
He receives." (vs6)
However, this process is not a random willy-nilly thing. The Lord
"adjusts" that cylinder and those sieves "just right." (Heb12:10)
Typically, the hired hand/s do not make such critical adjustments. The
harvest and the "profit" for the year are too much at stake. While the
hired hand will drive the combine (angels Mt13:41),
Vera is a farmer too
the Farmer,
Himself,
(13:3,18,30,37,41) makes the adjustments, and crawls around
behind to see how much is escaping out the back. Or how many kernels
were crushed by the cylinder. The Farmer is "experienced" in these
matters. He "will not allow you to be tempted above what you are able"
(1Cor10:13) because He has experienced it "in all points just as we
are" (Heb4:15) as we follow in His example. (1Pt2:21-24)
He "chastens" us "for our profit, that we might be partakers of His
holiness." (Heb12:10) Truly, it is not always "joyous." But in the end
"it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who are
exercised by it..." (vs11) Thus, we can entrust our souls to our
"Shepherd and Overseer."(1Pt2:25)
What is chaff?
Chaff is made up of glumes, hulls, unthreshed heads and pods, short
straw, leaf material, and whole or cracked kernels or seeds from
cereal, oilseed and pulse crops.**** Weed seeds******* are also a
major component of chaff. Got any?
Just a good lesson I had to learn, I'm offering to you.
http://www.a-voice.org/portions/12-15-98.htm
Love,
sensi
<> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><> ><>

It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song
of fools.
(Ecclesiastes 7:5 KJV)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><

Oh yes, I agree and I will be the first to admit that I myself through self
examination
has sung many a tune about Life/God... out of chord, myown ignorance gets in
the way.
This I admit!
Not always am I in perfect harmony with God.
If we don't admit to having some foolishness and you say I have all
foolishness and you have none
then who is singing a song of fools? Perhaps your idea is foolish and you
would only then
be fooling yourself? Just a thought and not meant
to be a stone but something else to consider. It's applicable to the reader
that was lead to read and apply
rather than give it away as if your every thought and idea is
pure in your mind, heart and soul.

The scripture is so sacred that you cannot give it away. You can share....
but you also have to partake
of all that you share. It is im-polite when the Host offers you something
for your own need and then
you hand it under the table as if He must have been mistaken. It's for
you, dear. Study it, apply
it and then let's talk about..



Love,
sensi

Post by ::: vera :::
--

[Bob]

Post by Mark T

Post by Mark T
In November 2003 David Matthieu posted a general request for help which
mentioned the name of my friend Woz who had been "moderated" on the
unmoderated ACC by Griz, Vera and their fundamentalist thugs. David
Matthieu spoke of the abuse and intimidation endured by my friend and

fellow

Post by Mark T
CHRISTIAN ARTIST, Woz and many other Christians who were chased away from
ACC by Griz and Vera and their thugs. In 2003-2004 a number of

Christians

Post by Mark T
of varying Christian traditions helped destroy the Griz cult (of which

Vera

Post by Mark T
was a mjor member) to bring this NG back to its original intent - A FREE
UNMODERATED PUBLIC FORUM FOR ALL CHRISTIANS!!

THEN WHY ARE =YOU= HERE?????

[Feather Forestwalker]

<snipped>

Mark,

You forget one very strong detail:

Vera didn't arrive here until *after* the incident in question with your
fellow Australian artist friend. I believe she arrived sometime in May or
even June of last year? And that thing with Woz happened much earlier than
that. . .Vera wasn't here and had no awareness of that situation until it
started coming up again through other people mentioning it. . .

heck, I wasn't even here for that. Woz was gone long before my lurking in
July of 2003 and actual post in August of 2003 - long gone.

God bless,

Feather

[Mike Bugal]

Post by Feather Forestwalker
<snipped>
Mark,
Vera didn't arrive here until *after* the incident in question with your
fellow Australian artist friend. I believe she arrived sometime in May or
even June of last year? And that thing with Woz happened much earlier than
that. . .Vera wasn't here and had no awareness of that situation until it
started coming up again through other people mentioning it. . .
heck, I wasn't even here for that. Woz was gone long before my lurking in
July of 2003 and actual post in August of 2003 - long gone.
God bless,
Feather

In checking Google I find that the last posting from Woz was July 2002. As for
when Vera came here, I'll take your word for it. There are over 8,250 postings
in Google by her and I'm not going to go all through that to verify a date. :-)

His and Yours

Mike Bugal
Heartland Chapel Ministries
http://www.heartlandchapel.org

[Diana]

Post by Mike Bugal

Post by Feather Forestwalker
<snipped>
Mark,
Vera didn't arrive here until *after* the incident
in question with your
fellow Australian artist friend. I believe she
arrived sometime in May or
even June of last year? And that thing with Woz
happened much earlier than
that. . .Vera wasn't here and had no awareness of
that situation until it
started coming up again through other people
mentioning it. . .
heck, I wasn't even here for that. Woz was gone long
before my lurking in
July of 2003 and actual post in August of 2003 -
long gone.
God bless,
Feather

In checking Google I find that the last posting from
Woz was July 2002. As for
when Vera came here, I'll take your word for it.
There are over 8,250 postings
in Google by her and I'm not going to go all through
that to verify a date. :-)
His and Yours
Mike Bugal
Heartland Chapel Ministries
http://www.heartlandchapel.org

Feather is Correct as to when Vera came here. She had
nothing to do with Woz.

[Bob]

Post by Feather Forestwalker
<snipped>
Mark,

Don't confuse Mark with facts, Feather; just suck up to him like always
and call him your brother in Christ. The man is on a highway to hell, and
you folks don't have a clue....

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by Bob

Post by Feather Forestwalker
<snipped>
Mark,

Don't confuse Mark with facts, Feather; just suck up to him like always
and call him your brother in Christ. The man is on a highway to hell, and
you folks don't have a clue....

**Who** am I sucking up to? I "suck up" to NO man, woman or anyone else. And
I certainly aint no brown nose. . .

Go bite the wall, Bob. . .

*LOL*

Feather

[Abby]

Post by Bob

Post by Feather Forestwalker
<snipped>
Mark,

Don't confuse Mark with facts, Feather; just suck up to him like always
and call him your brother in Christ. The man is on a highway to hell, and
you folks don't have a clue....

They are deceived.

Abby

[Bob]

Post by Abby

Post by Bob

Post by Feather Forestwalker
<snipped>
Mark,

Don't confuse Mark with facts, Feather; just suck up to him like always
and call him your brother in Christ. The man is on a highway to hell, and
you folks don't have a clue....

They are deceived.

BUT! The elect are not deceived!!!
THANK YOU JESUS, FOR SAVING SUCH AS I, THE CHIEF OF SINNERS!!!

Post by Abby
Abby

[Abby]

Post by Mark T

Post by Abby

Post by Bob

Post by Feather Forestwalker
<snipped>
Mark,

Don't confuse Mark with facts, Feather; just suck up to him like

always

Post by Abby

Post by Bob
and call him your brother in Christ. The man is on a highway to hell,

and

Post by Abby

Post by Bob
you folks don't have a clue....

They are deceived.

BUT! The elect are not deceived!!!
THANK YOU JESUS, FOR SAVING SUCH AS I, THE CHIEF OF SINNERS!!!

Post by Abby
Abby

I am counted as well Robert. I am so thankful He has chosen us and that we
do not choose Him!

Abby

[Bob]

Post by Abby

Post by Mark T

Post by Abby

Post by Bob

Post by Feather Forestwalker
<snipped>
Mark,

Don't confuse Mark with facts, Feather; just suck up to him like

always

Post by Abby

Post by Bob
and call him your brother in Christ. The man is on a highway to hell,

and

Post by Abby

Post by Bob
you folks don't have a clue....

They are deceived.

BUT! The elect are not deceived!!!
THANK YOU JESUS, FOR SAVING SUCH AS I, THE CHIEF OF SINNERS!!!

Post by Abby
Abby

I am counted as well Robert. I am so thankful He has chosen us and that we
do not choose Him!

Yeah, what doper in his right mind would choose to follow Jesus?! He put
me back in my right mind and showed me it was all His doing, salvation is
all of Christ, from start to finish, we have no part in it. We are reborn
and helpless to do anything about it except acknowledge that it has
happened!!!!!!!!

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by Mark T

Post by Abby

Post by Bob

Post by Feather Forestwalker
<snipped>
Mark,

Don't confuse Mark with facts, Feather; just suck up to him like

always

Post by Abby

Post by Bob
and call him your brother in Christ. The man is on a highway to hell,

and

Post by Abby

Post by Bob
you folks don't have a clue....

They are deceived.

BUT! The elect are not deceived!!!
THANK YOU JESUS, FOR SAVING SUCH AS I, THE CHIEF OF SINNERS!!!

Amen, and I, as well, chief among same.

Bob,

WHO are the elect, and by what measure do you judge against one whom you
consider NOT of the elect?

Second,

Why would you suggest that of someone who was chosen several years ago? (we
could go back to when I was seven, or back to when I was 19, whichever)

God bless,

Feather

PS. How'd the wall taste? *wink*

Post by Mark T

Post by Abby
Abby

[sensi]

Mark,

You forget one very strong detail:

Don't confuse Mark with facts, Feather; just suck up to him like
always
and call him your brother in Christ. The man is on a highway to hell,
and
you folks don't have a clue....

They are deceived.

BUT! The elect are not deceived!!!
THANK YOU JESUS, FOR SAVING SUCH AS I, THE CHIEF OF SINNERS!!!

Abby

sensi:
I sincerely believe there are elect things and being in The Spirit.

One of those things is "Compassion."
Another is "Forgiveness"

These are the elect and they will not be deceived by you or anyone else.

Love,
sensi
.

[Feather Forestwalker]

Post by Abby

Post by Bob

Post by Feather Forestwalker
<snipped>
Mark,

Don't confuse Mark with facts, Feather; just suck up to him like always
and call him your brother in Christ. The man is on a highway to hell, and
you folks don't have a clue....

They are deceived.

Schpeak fer yerself, K?

Post by Abby
Abby

[Sioux]

Mark T wrote:

This is the 3rd time I'm trying to send this.

Post by Mark T
In November 2003 David Matthieu posted a general request for help which
mentioned the name of my friend Woz who had been "moderated" on the
unmoderated ACC by Griz, Vera and their fundamentalist thugs. David
Matthieu spoke of the abuse and intimidation endured by my friend and fellow
CHRISTIAN ARTIST, Woz and many other Christians who were chased away from
ACC by Griz and Vera and their thugs.

I came here in December 2003 at which time I was intimidated, abused and
told I was not a Christian...nor did I have the Holy Spirit dwelling in
me. I suppose Griz knew that by the one e-mail I posted...*LOL*.

I as mostly treated as a non-entity...good Christians that they were.

Vera was not unkind or abusive to me.

Post by Mark T
In 2003-2004 a number of Christians
of varying Christian traditions helped destroy the Griz cult (of which Vera
was a mjor member) to bring this NG back to its original intent - A FREE
UNMODERATED PUBLIC FORUM FOR ALL CHRISTIANS!! Though we were not an
homogenous group of Christians (we had various Christian belief from a wide
cross-section of Christianity) it was Christian unity against Griz, Vera and
their bully building team not cultish fundamentalist uniformity like Griz
and Vera demanded of others.

Many in ACC blocked/plonked me upon Griz's "command", as though he were
Christ himself...poor lost lambs.

Post by Mark T
Rowland advised me against coming to ACC and told me it was a waste of my
time and talent. I ignored him. Gradually Rowland saw the benefit in
helping the Christians who had been abused by Griz and Vera and their thugs.
Rowland was joined later by Lawrence and Bradley (both from ARC where I had
been). After the destruction of the Griz cult Vera followed us to ARC.

I am very glad Rowland, Bradley, Lawrence are here...I also happy you
are here Mark...I don't care what the others say.

Post by Mark T
Various members of the Griz cult used aliases ... including Vera. I was
warned about this (and their other intimidating tactics) in advance by a
number of their victims. I posted (annonymously) the testimony of one of
their victims who came to me for help.

I think the Griz cult members doth protest too much...*LOL*!

Post by Mark T
All this may be verified by a simple Google search.
Anyone can discuss anything about Christian life on ACC (...and on any alt
newsgroup). It is NOT limited to ONLY fundamentalists, or ONLY evangelicals
or ONLY liberals. It is for ALL Christans. The point is then
to DISCUSS with these other Christians not to plonk them, chase them away or
tell lies and gossip about them.

[Br@dley []]

Post by Sioux
This is the 3rd time I'm trying to send this.

Post by Mark T
In November 2003 David Matthieu posted a general request for help
which mentioned the name of my friend Woz who had been "moderated"
on the unmoderated ACC by Griz, Vera and their fundamentalist thugs.
David Matthieu spoke of the abuse and intimidation endured by my
friend and fellow CHRISTIAN ARTIST, Woz and many other Christians
who were chased away from ACC by Griz and Vera and their thugs.

I came here in December 2003 at which time I was intimidated, abused
and told I was not a Christian...nor did I have the Holy Spirit
dwelling in me. I suppose Griz knew that by the one e-mail I
posted...*LOL*.

And the difference today would be???? :)

Post by Sioux
I as mostly treated as a non-entity...good Christians that they were.
Vera was not unkind or abusive to me.

That's all changed now. One can only conclude she's acting out towards
those she perceives as threatening her web site/position in the group/or
whatever, or anyone who is friendly with those people (which to "them"
means total support - one must join them in condemnation or be labelled
a heretic).

<snip>

Post by Sioux

Post by Mark T
Rowland advised me against coming to ACC and told me it was a waste
of my time and talent. I ignored him. Gradually Rowland saw the
benefit in helping the Christians who had been abused by Griz and
Vera and their thugs. Rowland was joined later by Lawrence and
Bradley (both from ARC where I had been). After the destruction of
the Griz cult Vera followed us to ARC.

I am very glad Rowland, Bradley, Lawrence are here...I also happy you
are here Mark...I don't care what the others say.

Thanks.

Post by Sioux

Post by Mark T
Various members of the Griz cult used aliases ... including Vera. I
was warned about this (and their other intimidating tactics) in
advance by a number of their victims. I posted (annonymously) the
testimony of one of their victims who came to me for help.

I think the Griz cult members doth protest too much...*LOL*!

Has anyone admitted fault in that situation or asked for forgiveness?
All I've seen is denial and excuses and attacking those who "liberated"
the group (liberated with some actions I don't support though).

<snip>

[Sioux]

***@dley [] wrote:

[ ]

Post by ***@dley []
Has anyone admitted fault in that situation or asked for forgiveness?
All I've seen is denial and excuses and attacking those who "liberated"
the group (liberated with some actions I don't support though).
<snip>

Oh no, if one asked for an apology, they/we were told by Griz to stop
playing the "victim"!

If all you've see are denials and excuses attacking us, then that's all
you're gonna see...things have not, nor are they gonna change.

NONE of them are ever going to admit what they have done are wrong.
EVER!!! That's why to this day I don't have a relationship with some of
them, nor will I ever have a relationship with some of them.

WHY? Because that's my choice. Some of them are not Christian and have
showed me so by their behavior. I choose to let them go their way and I
go mine, in peace.

Peace, Sioux

[Mark T]

Post by Sioux
I am very glad Rowland, Bradley, Lawrence are here

So am I ... even if they disagree with me sometimes. They are great bunch
of people whom I met ar ARC.

There are many good people posting here on these ngs and it is a shame to
have them constanmtly attacked for their variance of belief.

Rowland, Bradley, Lawrence sometimes disagree but we don't bite each other's
heads off ...yet ;-)

[sensi]

Post by Mark T

Post by Sioux
I am very glad Rowland, Bradley, Lawrence are here

So am I ... even if they disagree with me sometimes. They are great bunch
of people whom I met ar ARC.
There are many good people posting here on these ngs and it is a shame to
have them constanmtly attacked for their variance of belief.
Rowland, Bradley, Lawrence sometimes disagree but we don't bite each other's
heads off ...yet ;-)

Let's keep it that way. Heh?
I like Rowland, Bradley, Lawrence and what I notice is they
don't use scriptures to demean others. What gets under my skin is the use
of scripture
to imply that you/I/others are less worthy than the poster who post how much
greater they are.
I think "understandings" may be greater or less and *all* people have both.
Share with me your understanding, mine may be different and I guarantee no
one can
say there is only one understanding of any person, place or thing. Be
willing to listen
and exchange ideas rather than head blows!
Just make sure your idea is worthy enough to include all people.
When you (person) come back with "We are God's people and you're a child of
the devil."
Then bite your tongue, you know not the possibility of a greater
understanding than the lesser one
you have gathered. The same can be said for those who have a greater
understanding of any
such things in life..
Share it anyway and when the head blows come...turn the other cheek. Not
for receiving blows
but eyeing the situation and with strong jaws, clench and refrain thy tongue
when entering
into a small/lesser understanding. Go easy.....go gentle, explain. If it's
not taken well..Oh, well.
Don't let people run over you but by that same token don't run over
them.
Goes back to that "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."




Wow, I could use this idea myself! lol.
I wonder where this idea came from?
Shaking my head.

Love,
sensi